Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: AlphaX on June 01, 2018, 02:25:56 PM
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Hello everyone !
I am seeking your help in the LL procedure.
First, I want to say that my budget is 60k and wants to gain 10 cm. moreover, I think (85% sure) to follow the procedure with Dr. Giotikas.
For a gain of 10 cm I have to operate on the tibia + femur. So possibly 6 femur and 4 tibia. I am disponnible to make me operate between November and March.
However, I do not know which procedure to choose, all have their advantages and disadvantages. Stryde will not be available in Europe until next year, according to the doctor (I have no exact date on when it will be available). I will try to explain my situation as clearly as possible.
Plan A: TSF tibia + Precice 2 Femur (cross-lateral) -> 54.000 euros
This is the most basic procedure I can follow. However, I will have to keep the frames (TSF) for 6 months at least but the limit is not the most important.
In addition, I do not understand too .. The idea is that one operates for example the right tibia and the left femur in order to have a leg to move. However, when we do the second operation. we will make the left tibia and the right femur. Does this mean that the left leg (or did it precede 2 first) will be strong enough to be used as a support for walking?
Plan B: TSF tibia + Stryde Femur -> 60.000 euros
The idea will be to start in November by TSF only then see next year to make Stryde on femur.
In any case I should need crutch (I think) to move me as I will have TSF on shin.
The doctor has never done any surgery with Stryde (I guess being given that it's still not available).
I do not know when Stryde will be available so impossible to plan anything or get organized. This method has many advantages compared to Precice 2.
Moreover, if I realize that it will not be dispordible in the year I will be forced to be operated by Precice 2 on both femur and find myself in a wheelchair ..
Plan C: Stryde Tibia + Stryde Femur -> +80.000 euros
If we do not take into consideration the price factor. I think it's the best option. However, I still do not know if will be really available at the beginning of next year. In addition, the doctor never practice Stryde, although I trust him.
I am not an expert in the field and there is surely a lot of factor that I do not take into account it is for his that I defer to you and your opinion!
If I make a mistake please correct me :)
Thanks you !
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TSF with external frame for around 8 months... I had externals and it is a stupid idea. Would never do pure externals. IMO , considering being former LL patient. Test option for you needing 10 cm would be doing femurs with precice and then LATN. Easient imo would be doing 4 cm LATN in russia with hexapod. 2 months for lengthening then nailing and 6 months to fully recover. Then femurs in Greece. Only because one doctor does this type of surgery when he combines TSF and LATN doesnt mean it the best option.
PS I had TSF and its mainly for fixing malignant. Not cosmetic LL where getting patient to a full recover and soon as possible is the most important aspect.
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Thank you for your answer !
I see .. but doing Precice 2 puts me in a wheelchair for quite a few months if i don't make Cross-lateral.
It's pretty hard as a decision to make ..
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If you have plenty of time, then the best for you is stryde in femurs and then tsf only in tibias.
Tsf frames are the best, less invasive and most safe way to do tibia LL and even if they dont need time their benefits are too much to compensate for that (stability and malunion correction the moat important of all).
I had externals (monorails though) for almost a year but if things eent completely well I wouldnt mind at all. LL is not a time attack, its completely about having a good result for the rest of your life.
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Bodybuilder, what about TSF first and then Stryde?
@AlphaX do you know how many times Dr. Giotikas did the external method?
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Yes ! You're totally right..
All the trouble is money in my case.
The only one that offers (not yet but soon) Stryde with an affordable price is Dr. Giotikas. So if I'm doing TSF
shin and then Femur with Stryde, the only person who can meet the criteria is this doctor.
IF, I realize that finally Stryde will not be done until many months or even year. I think I would be a little disgusted not to have done cross-lateral..
If it was not a question of money I would have done Stryde on femur by Dr. Lee who is more experperate for 64,000 euros.
So either I choose to cross-side but I miss the possibility that Stryde is disponnible in January / February. Either I start with TSf and I wait for the femur with Stryde but I take a risk of not being able to operate if Dr Giotikas does not offer the service.
But for me I thought rather make TSF first since it is what is the most binding with the frames and less expensive.
@Great321 Hello ! :) Yes I asked him and he has already operated a lot of time via TSF in both cosmetic and non-cosmetic cases.
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@BodyBuilder For you, what’s the real advantage to make Stryde on femure - Tsf on tibia to cross-lateral ?
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What is the cost for tsf on tibia with Giotikas? Is that still 22600 euro?
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https://www.athensbjr.com/cost-and-pricing-of-cosmetic-limb-lengthening.html
According to their website, yes.
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Yes this is the same price that he confirm me on the online appointment.
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Bodybuilder, what about TSF first and then Stryde?
@AlphaX do you know how many times Dr. Giotikas did the external method?
No difference.
@ Alpha X: stryde offers full weight bearing abilities on a magmetic nail. It cant be better. It is the revolution of LL.
Cross LL is a big mistake. I dont suggest it regardless of the combination (segment and method).
Each segment must be lengthened on its own and about a year after the first segment's consolidation you could do the second. Nothing else.
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Bodybuilder, what about TSF first and then Stryde?
@AlphaX do you know how many times Dr. Giotikas did the external method?
24x external CLL. But if you include non-CLL, he handled over 100 cases per year for the last 5 years.
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Thank you for your answers.
I think you're right BodyBuilder I'll give up the idea of doing Cross-LL and focus on Stryde + TSF! Health is more important than money or money.
Thank you so much
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maybe you can ask Dr Giotikas about taking the 4 segment deal but to separate the two stages so you'll come back a year or two later.
something like to reserve the right to add the difference and proceed with the surgery.
I know i will be interested in such option.
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Yes I think it can be done! But for him it is necessary to move directly on the spot to discuss it with him.
One of us (on the forum) to a meeting soon with him in Athens. I wait to see what he will answer and then if that's why not :)
I would really like to know how much they offer Stryde. Exact prices and dates.
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Hey AlphaX,
My surgery is in Oct for precise femur with Dr. Dimitrios Giotikas. We should definitely hang out after the surgery.
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@Man of Steel I will probably start with TSF with Dr. Giotikas in October :)
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Hey Great321,
So we shall all hang out then. Got any chatting appwe can stay connected?
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I start with TSF on tibia at the latest in November!
Yes it may be nice not to be alone down there ahah! I always look at my personal messages on the forum I send you a message in something like 1 hour because you cannot send more than 2 message per hour!
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I have sent you a PM
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FYI Pili and others will be offering STRYDE at a similar price upon it's arrival not just Giotikas.
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Hello everyone !
I am seeking your help in the LL procedure.
First, I want to say that my budget is 60k and wants to gain 10 cm. moreover, I think (85% sure) to follow the procedure with Dr. Giotikas.
For a gain of 10 cm I have to operate on the tibia + femur. So possibly 6 femur and 4 tibia. I am disponnible to make me operate between November and March.
However, I do not know which procedure to choose, all have their advantages and disadvantages. Stryde will not be available in Europe until next year, according to the doctor (I have no exact date on when it will be available). I will try to explain my situation as clearly as possible.
Plan A: TSF tibia + Precice 2 Femur (cross-lateral) -> 54.000 euros
This is the most basic procedure I can follow. However, I will have to keep the frames (TSF) for 6 months at least but the limit is not the most important.
In addition, I do not understand too .. The idea is that one operates for example the right tibia and the left femur in order to have a leg to move. However, when we do the second operation. we will make the left tibia and the right femur. Does this mean that the left leg (or did it precede 2 first) will be strong enough to be used as a support for walking?
Plan B: TSF tibia + Stryde Femur -> 60.000 euros
The idea will be to start in November by TSF only then see next year to make Stryde on femur.
In any case I should need crutch (I think) to move me as I will have TSF on shin.
The doctor has never done any surgery with Stryde (I guess being given that it's still not available).
I do not know when Stryde will be available so impossible to plan anything or get organized. This method has many advantages compared to Precice 2.
Moreover, if I realize that it will not be dispordible in the year I will be forced to be operated by Precice 2 on both femur and find myself in a wheelchair ..
Plan C: Stryde Tibia + Stryde Femur -> +80.000 euros
If we do not take into consideration the price factor. I think it's the best option. However, I still do not know if will be really available at the beginning of next year. In addition, the doctor never practice Stryde, although I trust him.
I am not an expert in the field and there is surely a lot of factor that I do not take into account it is for his that I defer to you and your opinion!
If I make a mistake please correct me :)
Thanks you !
Dr. Giotikas offers stryde? you sure? his website says only precise.
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maybe you can ask Dr Giotikas about taking the 4 segment deal but to separate the two stages so you'll come back a year or two later.
something like to reserve the right to add the difference and proceed with the surgery.
I know i will be interested in such option.
his website says 4 segment deal is only available if the surgeries are done within 6 months of each other - it is not like you come back one year or two later and get the package/deal.
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Yes i think you have to wait 3 month between the 2 operation so it makes 6 month. Or, you can start with TSF on shin and then make Stryde in 2019 for 4000-5000€ more!
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Why don’t you guys just ask him an estimate of when you think he’ll have Stryde available? So if he says 2019 say late 2019 or early 2019?
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He said early (jan-feb) 2019 he'll have Stryde.
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@Johnson1111 I asked him bro he told me he don't know the exact date but yes as @zakika said it's for January or february we have to wait ! But we don't have any certitude about the exact date because he don't know!
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Anyway, I'll meet him on monday in Athens, and will ask all the specifics to him, as I'm planning either this summer, or early (or when it will be available) next year with stryde.
If u guys have any (objective) questions, let me know, I'll ask him. I just put the word "objective", as panic creation' vs. overly confident direction' both are excluded.
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1 - Will Stryde be available before March? (January / February) just to have confirmation and if it's sure.
2- How long after the lengthening phase should we wait to walk without support?
3- Does Stryde allow for greater elongation and faster consolidation?
(This question is for TSF on Tibia)
4- After how long do we remove the frames if we want to have surgery on TSF on tibia?
Thank you !
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Zakika, could you please ask him about how many internal femur patients he has had .
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All these questions are already on my list (some of them I already asked 2 months ago on the phone/skype), plus I would like to see patients if possible (however I doubt he has as many CLL patients, it is reality). For me the 1st priority (as Europeans with Precice nail tend to be less experienced in general) is his ortophedic background, the way he interprets the process+his personality in general (how he seems to handle unseen events, however it is hard to predict). A huge positive he's working in NHS/UK, so in my opinion (in advance) about the quality of professional expertise should be good (similar to Dr Birkholtz).
If anyone has any information about EU-citizens and complication coverage feel free to share pls.
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Anyway, I'll meet him on monday in Athens, and will ask all the specifics to him, as I'm planning either this summer, or early (or when it will be available) next year with stryde.
If u guys have any (objective) questions, let me know, I'll ask him. I just put the word "objective", as panic creation' vs. overly confident direction' both are excluded.
If you could, ask him why he needs CT scans of your bones and not just plain X-rays.
Thank you.
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I will, however in the patient information sheet they wrote me, if the preliminary x-ray (which I'll have to bring wth me) serves as a good quality source, I don't have to do another CT scan there.
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All these questions are already on my list (some of them I already asked 2 months ago on the phone/skype), plus I would like to see patients if possible (however I doubt he has as many CLL patients, it is reality). For me the 1st priority (as Europeans with Precice nail tend to be less experienced in general) is his ortophedic background, the way he interprets the process+his personality in general (how he seems to handle unseen events, however it is hard to predict). A huge positive he's working in NHS/UK, so in my opinion (in advance) about the quality of professional expertise should be good (similar to Dr Birkholtz).
I understand. And i also think that it is a big positive that he is working for NHS.
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All these questions are already on my list (some of them I already asked 2 months ago on the phone/skype), plus I would like to see patients if possible (however I doubt he has as many CLL patients, it is reality). For me the 1st priority (as Europeans with Precice nail tend to be less experienced in general) is his ortophedic background, the way he interprets the process+his personality in general (how he seems to handle unseen events, however it is hard to predict). A huge positive he's working in NHS/UK, so in my opinion (in advance) about the quality of professional expertise should be good (similar to Dr Birkholtz).
If anyone has any information about EU-citizens and complication coverage feel free to share pls.
please ask him about what visa option and visa supports are available for international patients.
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Here is a some questions he answered regarding availability of Styrde, lengthening at home options, price with acommodations.
Thank you for your interest in Athens Bone & Joint Reconstruction Center. Answering your questions:
1. We anticipate to be able to offer Stryde at the beginning of 2019 or even late 2018.We will know for sure in the next two to three months.
2. You will need to stay in Athens for the whole lengthening phase. Depending on the set lengthening goal, this can be up to 80 days for 7 cm of lengthening.
3. Taking into account the anticipated estimated price of Stryde, you should prepare approximately 47000 euro for treatment and accommodation expenses. Please note this is not a quote. You should also have an additional minimum 4000 Euro in case complications occur.
We remain at your disposal for any further information and assistance.
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Guys, I had my consultation with Dr Giotikas, all went as expected, he answered my questions properly, took the time, and was very attentive. He measured the proportions with the Athena' method he invented, and I changed my goal from internal femur (Precice 2) to TSF tibia first, and after Stryde (5-5 or 5-6 sms, my starting is 171 cm), so 4 segment surgery will be my option. The hospital is quite modern, cosy, as someone described earlier, it seems to serve high standard care. As I'm planning I will start this July, and in Dec-Jan Stryde (according to my recovery and Stryde availability). I met two of his patients with Precise femur, looked fine, are in the early phase. So basically he seems to be a good, safe option.
When my surgery approaches I will stay away from the forum, not willing to report or so, or answer questions. I think the basic infos here are treasure, but all additional personal projections are far more negative, and I personally find it contraproductive in terms of my recovery. Good luck for everyone!
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Great to hear mate!
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Guys, I had my consultation with Dr Giotikas, all went as expected, he answered my questions properly, took the time, and was very attentive. He measured the proportions with the Athena' method he invented, and I changed my goal from internal femur (Precice 2) to TSF tibia first, and after Stryde (5-5 or 5-6 sms, my starting is 171 cm), so 4 segment surgery will be my option. The hospital is quite modern, cosy, as someone described earlier, it seems to serve high standard care. As I'm planning I will start this July, and in Dec-Jan Stryde (according to my recovery and Stryde availability). I met two of his patients with Precise femur, looked fine, are in the early phase. So basically he seems to be a good, safe option.
When my surgery approaches I will stay away from the forum, not willing to report or so, or answer questions. I think the basic infos here are treasure, but all additional personal projections are far more negative, and I personally find it contraproductive in terms of my recovery. Good luck for everyone!
Awesome, all the best man. I have a similar plan in mind (TSF and then STryde) - so he will be providing stryde this December? Also, what will your total cost (approximately) come to? thanks
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Thanks guys, Stryde arrivals exact date is questionable yet, I just started planning. It seems the 4 segment with stride will be around 60k+accomodation, personal assistance (for food etc..), travel expenses and an additional reserve around 4k EUR for complications. The visa question should be asked at your local Greek embassy, he couldn't logically provide answer with that.
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Thanks guys, Stryde arrivals exact date is questionable yet, I just started planning. It seems the 4 segment with stride will be around 60k+accomodation, personal assistance (for food etc..), travel expenses and an additional reserve around 4k EUR for complications. The visa question should be asked at your local Greek embassy, he couldn't logically provide answer with that.
Thanks, please keep us updated on your journey.
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Thanks guys, Stryde arrivals exact date is questionable yet, I just started planning. It seems the 4 segment with stride will be around 60k+accomodation, personal assistance (for food etc..), travel expenses and an additional reserve around 4k EUR for complications. The visa question should be asked at your local Greek embassy, he couldn't logically provide answer with that.
Do you mean both tibias and both femurs would be 60k in total? I can't imagine that.
Precise 2 femurs 36950 Euro and tibisa 38950 Euro costs already 75900. With Stryde it can't be less expensive?
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Look at the website please a bit more precisely.