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[LG1816]

I know there have been a few discussions regarding this on here, but I feel they came at it from the standpoint of 'Body Dysmorphic Disorder' as a literal translation. The name isn't a great descriptor of the actual disorder, because to have the disorder doesn't mean you're identifying a problem that doesn't exist.

The disorder is classically attributed to people who have no actual flaw but think so anyway, when in actual fact, BDD is more categorized as an intense, obsessive preoccupation with an aspect of your physical appearance. Given this, you can be ugly or good-looking and still have BDD, meaning it's not down to whether or not the perceived defect is real or not.

If we consider this, I feel like LL definitely falls under this category. It certainly feels like it for me. There's no question that height has a massive impact on your life, and if you're short, you have things noticeably harder on a sliding scale. That reality doesn't preclude the diagnosis of BDD, though; I've seen it mentioned several times on here that LL isn't BDD because it marks a legitimate, objective reality, but that isn't how it works.

The vast majority of short men I know (who are much shorter than me) may not like their height, but if I were to bring up LL in front of them they'd think I was insane. They're not obsessing to the point where they would ever consider dropping thousands on a grueling operation to get taller, where I feel for many of us here, height has manifested as the primary concern in our lives. That's an obsession and surely comes under the bracket of BDD. No one without an obsession about this would ever consider going the lengths required to do LL. The fact is, most people manage to live with it. Surely to be completely unable to do so marks a disordered way of thinking.

--

I think this raises a particularly interesting discussion that applies to all types of cosmetic surgery but is far more serious when it comes to LL. Even if there is a disordered pattern of thinking, is it advisable to treat the acute obsession? or to tackle the mental health problem? I'm not sure there is a clear answer.

LL isn't a nose job. Therapy is often brushed off as an approach for treating people with height dysphoria, but should it really be so easily dismissed?

[Acemace86]

You mention therapy but the ultimate solution is at the hands of a surgeon.

[NailedLegs]

You mention therapy but the ultimate solution is at the hands of a surgeon.

This.

You also raised a good point. Height is an objective reality. Suffering from short stature is nothing like suffering from anorexia, another form of body dysphoria. Being short in today's society is an objective flaw that you WILL be judged for or treated different for. Believing you are fat when you have a BMI of 20 is nonsense, and you won't be treated differently because of it--its all in your head, making it SUBJECTIVE and not OBJECTIVE.

Therapy works only when the problem is in your mind. Like with anorexia.

Therapy does not work when it comes to the physical, tangible world, like your height. You don't need a Doctor of the mind(a psychologist), you need a Doctor of the body(an Orthopedic surgeon).

[LG1816]

This.

You also raised a good point. Height is an objective reality. Suffering from short stature is nothing like suffering from anorexia, another form of body dysphoria. Being short in today's society is an objective flaw that you WILL be judged for or treated different for. Believing you are fat when you have a BMI of 20 is nonsense, and you won't be treated differently because of it--its all in your head, making it SUBJECTIVE and not OBJECTIVE.

Therapy works only when the problem is in your mind. Like with anorexia.

Therapy does not work when it comes to the physical, tangible world, like your height. You don't need a Doctor of the mind(a psychologist), you need a Doctor of the body(an Orthopedic surgeon).

But plenty of things are an objective reality, so where does it end? Should an objectively ugly person focus their entire lives on getting tons of plastic surgeries to fix their face on the basis of fixing an objective reality that's making them miserable? Or is it their inability to accept these things and live their lives anyway that's the real problem?

To place such value on the objective truth of the situation would surely imply that everyone with this objective reality is suffering, and that isn't the case. Only a fraction of conventionally unattractive people have BDD -- an all-consuming preoccupation with their looks that ruins their lives -- and it's surely similar with height.

Not to mention that the majority of Orthopedic surgeons do not at all see this sort of surgery as acceptable: https://www.reddit.com/r/orthopaedics/comments/1at3cz3/why_are_limblengthening_surgeries_looked_down/

I agree this is nothing like suffering from anorexia or disorders where there is a legitimate cognitive distortion, but my original post was to distinguish from those anyway. I don't really think this is as simple as objective realities require objective solutions because when you start to theoretically apply that to different situations, you get into a weird area.

And I say all this as someone suffering from height dysphoria myself, without any answers to what might help other than surgery. However, I'm also someone who has OCD and BDD that significantly affects other areas of my life.

[Acemace86]

I would recommend this surgery for you as it will cure your height dysphoria. It senseless to over analyze this when there is a fix to height dysphoria. It’s not necessary to live with this burden.

[LG1816]

I'm not sure I'd consider it 'senseless' to be wary of undergoing such a procedure for what is ultimately a cosmetic procedure.
There's certainly an argument for it, but I don't see it as the one-and-done solution people think it is considering the potential complications.

[Metaphyglv]

Suffering from short stature is nothing like suffering from anorexia, another form of body dysphoria. Being short in today's society is an objective flaw that you WILL be judged for or treated different for. Believing you are fat when you have a BMI of 20 is nonsense, and you won't be treated differently because of it--its all in your head, making it SUBJECTIVE and not OBJECTIVE.

Therapy works only when the problem is in your mind. Like with anorexia.

Therapy does not work when it comes to the physical, tangible world, like your height. You don't need a Doctor of the mind(a psychologist), you need a Doctor of the body(an Orthopedic surgeon).

Yeah, but there are a ton of dudes here taller than 5'8 or so (totally average dudes) willingly to break their legs to be tall. Thats in my opinion totally insane. I can understand a short dude who wants to stop being treated different, but not a normal dude obsessed with their height at this point, that's surely some BBD there, and social anxiety too.

[Acemace86]

It’s the silver bullet if done by a reputable surgeon.

[sxxa]

Yeah, but there are a ton of dudes here taller than 5'8 or so (totally average dudes) willingly to break their legs to be tall. Thats in my opinion totally insane. I can understand a short dude who wants to stop being treated different, but not a normal dude obsessed with their height at this point, that's surely some BBD there, and social anxiety too.

I could say I fall in this description, however I must say, my height dysphoria truly makes me feel phisically sick. A deep sense of self awareness and discomfort, it's not nice to live like that tbh.

[NailedLegs]

But plenty of things are an objective reality, so where does it end? Should an objectively ugly person focus their entire lives on getting tons of plastic surgeries to fix their face on the basis of fixing an objective reality that's making them miserable? Or is it their inability to accept these things and live their lives anyway that's the real problem?

To place such value on the objective truth of the situation would surely imply that everyone with this objective reality is suffering, and that isn't the case. Only a fraction of conventionally unattractive people have BDD -- an all-consuming preoccupation with their looks that ruins their lives -- and it's surely similar with height.

Not to mention that the majority of Orthopedic surgeons do not at all see this sort of surgery as acceptable: https://www.reddit.com/r/orthopaedics/comments/1at3cz3/why_are_limblengthening_surgeries_looked_down/

I agree this is nothing like suffering from anorexia or disorders where there is a legitimate cognitive distortion, but my original post was to distinguish from those anyway. I don't really think this is as simple as objective realities require objective solutions because when you start to theoretically apply that to different situations, you get into a weird area.

And I say all this as someone suffering from height dysphoria myself, without any answers to what might help other than surgery. However, I'm also someone who has OCD and BDD that significantly affects other areas of my life.

Acceptance is a cope. How you treat yourself doesn't effect how others will treat you. Confidence is definitely important and I dont deny that, but the truth is that being short is a detriment and being ugly is a detriment too. You can "accept" it in the sense that you understand it is what it is, and decide to live life as best as you can even with these detriments, but that is by definition a cope.

Most Orthopedic surgeons do not support limb lengthening for cosmetic purposes for reasons that do not matter. I don't care, nobody else cares, their own beliefs are just their own. Again, their reasoning why honestly doesn't matter. Its irrelevant. Most Orthopedic surgeons can't even do the procedure LOL. Being able to stick a nail into someone's femur does not mean they have the knowledge or skill to prevent complications. Limb lengthening is a specialty within a specialty(limb lengthening, deformity correction, etc)

"Focus their entire lives on getting plastic surgery" is massively exaggerated. Limb Lengthening is the most time intensive cosmetic procedure you can get and the most expensive. Even double jaw surgery is a faster recovery and cheaper. A rhinoplasty is cheap, and you recover from it fast. The halo effect is real. Once you get Limb lengthening, the height is with you forever. You'll never shrink except for your spine, which effects tall people too.

You have two options: Cope, or fix the problem.

I would recommend this surgery for you as it will cure your height dysphoria. It senseless to over analyze this when there is a fix to height dysphoria. It’s not necessary to live with this burden.

Exactly. The problem can be fixed! Patient satisfaction rates are some of the highest when compared to most other surgical procedures. The #1 thing is picking a good surgeon. You need a good surgeon, which luckily are easy to find...just pricey.

I'm not sure I'd consider it 'senseless' to be wary of undergoing such a procedure for what is ultimately a cosmetic procedure.
There's certainly an argument for it, but I don't see it as the one-and-done solution people think it is considering the potential complications.

#1 factor is your surgeon. You need a good surgeon. If you pick a good surgeon, complications aren't a problem. 1) A good surgeon will prevent them from happening in the first place 2) A good surgeon can fix any complications that arise. Even "chance" complications like infections can be solved with a round of antibiotics(or using internals which reduce the risk). Equinus is because your surgeon let you over lengthen, fibula migration is because your surgeon didn't place syndesmotic screws, non-union is because your surgeon didn't closely watch your progress with regular x-rays. Axial deviations are because your surgeon didn't properly implant the nail. The list goes on and on. The one thing that I will concede is embolisms. They are very rare, but it's possible. But even those the risk can be reduced by 1) doing quad surgeries spread apart 2) venting prior to reaming 3) blood thinners

Yeah, but there are a ton of dudes here taller than 5'8 or so (totally average dudes) willingly to break their legs to be tall. Thats in my opinion totally insane. I can understand a short dude who wants to stop being treated different, but not a normal dude obsessed with their height at this point, that's surely some BBD there, and social anxiety too.

Height is a sliding scale. The 5'8" guys do not have as much of an excuse as the 5'4" guy. But there are still some detriments to being 5'8" over even just 5'10", as the research shows. Alot of it comes down to, "Is it worth it to YOU?" If money is no factor? If time is no factor? If the physical pain, and mental pain of temporarily crippling yourself, is no factor? Why not? Why not do it at that point? Because of the very, very rare chance of an embolism? If that's your reasoning, OK fine, I'll accept that.

[Sorcerer]

This.

You also raised a good point. Height is an objective reality. Suffering from short stature is nothing like suffering from anorexia, another form of body dysphoria. Being short in today's society is an objective flaw that you WILL be judged for or treated different for. Believing you are fat when you have a BMI of 20 is nonsense, and you won't be treated differently because of it--its all in your head, making it SUBJECTIVE and not OBJECTIVE.

Therapy works only when the problem is in your mind. Like with anorexia.

Therapy does not work when it comes to the physical, tangible world, like your height. You don't need a Doctor of the mind(a psychologist), you need a Doctor of the body(an Orthopedic surgeon).

I think he knows it and he thinks therapy works for the mental issues caused by the discriminations, which is indeed a piece of good advice, since some short guys indeed have gone too far which necessitates a therapy.
But yeah it does not take any genius to agree upon that therapy can't completely solve the problem, but at least can make your situation better.

[Sorcerer]

But plenty of things are an objective reality, so where does it end? Should an objectively ugly person focus their entire lives on getting tons of plastic surgeries to fix their face on the basis of fixing an objective reality that's making them miserable? Or is it their inability to accept these things and live their lives anyway that's the real problem?

To place such value on the objective truth of the situation would surely imply that everyone with this objective reality is suffering, and that isn't the case. Only a fraction of conventionally unattractive people have BDD -- an all-consuming preoccupation with their looks that ruins their lives -- and it's surely similar with height.

Not to mention that the majority of Orthopedic surgeons do not at all see this sort of surgery as acceptable: https://www.reddit.com/r/orthopaedics/comments/1at3cz3/why_are_limblengthening_surgeries_looked_down/

I agree this is nothing like suffering from anorexia or disorders where there is a legitimate cognitive distortion, but my original post was to distinguish from those anyway. I don't really think this is as simple as objective realities require objective solutions because when you start to theoretically apply that to different situations, you get into a weird area.

And I say all this as someone suffering from height dysphoria myself, without any answers to what might help other than surgery. However, I'm also someone who has OCD and BDD that significantly affects other areas of my life.

Of course this surgery is looked upon even by the majority of orthos. What can you expect when the majority of them do not do LL? Count how many LL surgeons there are only and you can know why.

[Sorcerer]

Acceptance is a cope. How you treat yourself doesn't effect how others will treat you. Confidence is definitely important and I dont deny that, but the truth is that being short is a detriment and being ugly is a detriment too. You can "accept" it in the sense that you understand it is what it is, and decide to live life as best as you can even with these detriments, but that is by definition a cope.

Most Orthopedic surgeons do not support limb lengthening for cosmetic purposes for reasons that do not matter. I don't care, nobody else cares, their own beliefs are just their own. Again, their reasoning why honestly doesn't matter. Its irrelevant. Most Orthopedic surgeons can't even do the procedure LOL. Being able to stick a nail into someone's femur does not mean they have the knowledge or skill to prevent complications. Limb lengthening is a specialty within a specialty(limb lengthening, deformity correction, etc)

"Focus their entire lives on getting plastic surgery" is massively exaggerated. Limb Lengthening is the most time intensive cosmetic procedure you can get and the most expensive. Even double jaw surgery is a faster recovery and cheaper. A rhinoplasty is cheap, and you recover from it fast. The halo effect is real. Once you get Limb lengthening, the height is with you forever. You'll never shrink except for your spine, which effects tall people too.

You have two options: Cope, or fix the problem.

Exactly. The problem can be fixed! Patient satisfaction rates are some of the highest when compared to most other surgical procedures. The #1 thing is picking a good surgeon. You need a good surgeon, which luckily are easy to find...just pricey.

#1 factor is your surgeon. You need a good surgeon. If you pick a good surgeon, complications aren't a problem. 1) A good surgeon will prevent them from happening in the first place 2) A good surgeon can fix any complications that arise. Even "chance" complications like infections can be solved with a round of antibiotics(or using internals which reduce the risk). Equinus is because your surgeon let you over lengthen, fibula migration is because your surgeon didn't place syndesmotic screws, non-union is because your surgeon didn't closely watch your progress with regular x-rays. Axial deviations are because your surgeon didn't properly implant the nail. The list goes on and on. The one thing that I will concede is embolisms. They are very rare, but it's possible. But even those the risk can be reduced by 1) doing quad surgeries spread apart 2) venting prior to reaming 3) blood thinners

Height is a sliding scale. The 5'8" guys do not have as much of an excuse as the 5'4" guy. But there are still some detriments to being 5'8" over even just 5'10", as the research shows. Alot of it comes down to, "Is it worth it to YOU?" If money is no factor? If time is no factor? If the physical pain, and mental pain of temporarily crippling yourself, is no factor? Why not? Why not do it at that point? Because of the very, very rare chance of an embolism? If that's your reasoning, OK fine, I'll accept that.

Being confident and the byproducts of it of course change how others treat you. Who will get more respect, the one who does not even dare look at the other side's face because he feels inferior about his height with  ty outfit caused by his blackpilled 'LDAR' attitude or the one who talks naturally to the other side with outfit looking good? But yeah maybe the latter still can't get as much respect as a normal/tall guy can get, but at least they can improve how others treat you.

As for whether self-acceptance is a cope, depends on how you accept yourself. I don't think if you are short it's just cope to accept yourself and you gotta feel inferior about it. If you believe you've got 'the bad cards' but you live life happily somehow with accepting the harsh truth, I don't think this self-acceptance is cope at all, but if you don't believe the detriments brought by being short, like believing women do not care about your height at all when your personality is good enough, as the source of your self-acceptance, then yeah this self-acceptance is totally a cope.

Yeah LL is a speciality within a speciality.

[Marie_Bard]

I know there have been a few discussions regarding this on here, but I feel they came at it from the standpoint of 'Body Dysmorphic Disorder' as a literal translation. The name isn't a great descriptor of the actual disorder, because to have the disorder doesn't mean you're identifying a problem that doesn't exist.

The disorder is classically attributed to people who have no actual flaw but think so anyway, when in actual fact, BDD is more categorized as an intense, obsessive preoccupation with an aspect of your physical appearance. Given this, you can be ugly or good-looking and still have BDD, meaning it's not down to whether or not the perceived defect is real or not.

If we consider this, I feel like LL definitely falls under this category. It certainly feels like it for me. There's no question that height has a massive impact on your life, and if you're short, you have things noticeably harder on a sliding scale. That reality doesn't preclude the diagnosis of BDD, though; I've seen it mentioned several times on here that LL isn't BDD because it marks a legitimate, objective reality, but that isn't how it works.

The vast majority of short men I know (who are much shorter than me) may not like their height, but if I were to bring up LL in front of them they'd think I was insane. They're not obsessing to the point where they would ever consider dropping thousands on a grueling operation to get taller, where I feel for many of us here, height has manifested as the primary concern in our lives. That's an obsession and surely comes under the bracket of BDD. No one without an obsession about this would ever consider going the lengths required to do LL. The fact is, most people manage to live with it. Surely to be completely unable to do so marks a disordered way of thinking.

--

I think this raises a particularly interesting discussion that applies to all types of cosmetic surgery but is far more serious when it comes to LL. Even if there is a disordered pattern of thinking, is it advisable to treat the acute obsession? or to tackle the mental health problem? I'm not sure there is a clear answer.

LL isn't a nose job. Therapy is often brushed off as an approach for treating people with height dysphoria, but should it really be so easily dismissed?

Hi, I really enjoyed your post! you are right, it's not about the height itself, it's about how we feel about it and yes, if it becomes obsessive it falls within the diagnosis of BDD. The question then is what caused the BDD? is it the height itself or other psychological trauma? If it is the height and the height only, then surgery may help.

[oklama]

the term body dysmorphia implies its a mental issue i.e "in your head"

there are documented, studied, and obvious major drawbacks to being ACTUALLY short (below 5'7/5'8 in USA).

the ONLY way to solve this is through CLL.

Do I have body dysmorphia? yeah of course I do, but what gave me body dysmorphia is a societal expectation of me that I didn't meet through no fault of my own, and everyone else's obsession, NOT MINE.

so an external force has induced body dysmorphia onto me because of my height... only way to fix that is CLL.

[jbfjbj4]

But plenty of things are an objective reality, so where does it end? Should an objectively ugly person focus their entire lives on getting tons of plastic surgeries to fix their face on the basis of fixing an objective reality that's making them miserable?

Yes.

[NailedLegs]

the term body dysmorphia implies its a mental issue i.e "in your head"

there are documented, studied, and obvious major drawbacks to being ACTUALLY short (below 5'7/5'8 in USA).

the ONLY way to solve this is through CLL.

Do I have body dysmorphia? yeah of course I do, but what gave me body dysmorphia is a societal expectation of me that I didn't meet through no fault of my own, and everyone else's obsession, NOT MINE.

so an external force has induced body dysmorphia onto me because of my height... only way to fix that is CLL.

Exactly. That's why I say "acceptance" and therapy is a cope when it comes to short stature.

[bid133]

I know there have been a few discussions regarding this on here, but I feel they came at it from the standpoint of 'Body Dysmorphic Disorder' as a literal translation. The name isn't a great descriptor of the actual disorder, because to have the disorder doesn't mean you're identifying a problem that doesn't exist.

The disorder is classically attributed to people who have no actual flaw but think so anyway, when in actual fact, BDD is more categorized as an intense, obsessive preoccupation with an aspect of your physical appearance. Given this, you can be ugly or good-looking and still have BDD, meaning it's not down to whether or not the perceived defect is real or not.

If we consider this, I feel like LL definitely falls under this category. It certainly feels like it for me. There's no question that height has a massive impact on your life, and if you're short, you have things noticeably harder on a sliding scale. That reality doesn't preclude the diagnosis of BDD, though; I've seen it mentioned several times on here that LL isn't BDD because it marks a legitimate, objective reality, but that isn't how it works.

The vast majority of short men I know (who are much shorter than me) may not like their height, but if I were to bring up LL in front of them they'd think I was insane. They're not obsessing to the point where they would ever consider dropping thousands on a grueling operation to get taller, where I feel for many of us here, height has manifested as the primary concern in our lives. That's an obsession and surely comes under the bracket of BDD. No one without an obsession about this would ever consider going the lengths required to do LL. The fact is, most people manage to live with it. Surely to be completely unable to do so marks a disordered way of thinking.

--

I think this raises a particularly interesting discussion that applies to all types of cosmetic surgery but is far more serious when it comes to LL. Even if there is a disordered pattern of thinking, is it advisable to treat the acute obsession? or to tackle the mental health problem? I'm not sure there is a clear answer.

LL isn't a nose job. Therapy is often brushed off as an approach for treating people with height dysphoria, but should it really be so easily dismissed?

The first criterion of BDD is "Preoccupation with one or more perceived defects or flaws in physical appearance that are not observable or appear slight to others" (emphasis mine). For someone below the average height, it's not a perceived defect or flaw, it's a very real one (unless one would like to make a moral argument over whether short stature is a flaw or defect, but that's beyond the scope of the criterion) and it is observable (and often pointed out) by others. By definition, that criterion must be met for BDD to be diagnosed. Therefore, height dysphoria is not body dysmorphic disorder, regardless of whether or not one wishes to undergo CLL.

[Marie_Bard]

Hi,
Does any one know how I can insert a photo in a post? If I click the "Insert mage" button it only inserts the code "" but doesn't allow me to chose and upload a photo. Any suggestions?Thank you

[Body Builder]

the term body dysmorphia implies its a mental issue i.e "in your head"

there are documented, studied, and obvious major drawbacks to being ACTUALLY short (below 5'7/5'8 in USA).

the ONLY way to solve this is through CLL.

Do I have body dysmorphia? yeah of course I do, but what gave me body dysmorphia is a societal expectation of me that I didn't meet through no fault of my own, and everyone else's obsession, NOT MINE.

so an external force has induced body dysmorphia onto me because of my height... only way to fix that is CLL.

Exactly that.
Real bodybdysmorphia have only more than average height men who are not ok with their heights. Not a short man that society disrespect in all circumstances and the only way to be seen as equal is LL.

[Sorcerer]

Exactly that.
Real bodybdysmorphia have only more than average height men who are not ok with their heights. Not a short man that society disrespect in all circumstances and the only way to be seen as equal is LL.

I kinda think OP confuses body dysphoria with body dysmorphia. The former describes a state in which the patient is suffering from the mental issues caused by being short/fatty etc., while the latter describes a state in which the patient is still doing so while being slightly or even not flawed body-wise.

[Temoc]

The fact is, most people manage to live with it. Surely to be completely unable to do so marks a disordered way of thinking.

Realizing you have a condition, in that case, short stature, finding a way of correcting it and proceeding with it is not a disordered way of thinking.
A disordered way of thinking would be realizing you have a condition that doesn't please you, obsessing about it but not doing anything to solve it.

Also, the problem of BDD and cosmetic surgeries is when you never stop. There are people who will have endless surgeries because they will never be happy with their appearance and end up looking freaks. A 5'7" man who undergoes surgery to be average height, 5'9", and stops there isn't comparable to surgery freaks.

That's not to say that people can't be happy and live fulfilling lives being short and not undergoing LL. It's a choice.

[JJ299]

Most will call it crazy because an overwhelming majority of them thinks you wouldn't be able to walk or get disabled in exchange for 3 extra inches of height + the surgery itself costs a minimum of 50k+ and 4 months of recovery so 99% of people wouldn't be able to afford it.

Usually lot of the hate that comes after getting LL isn't fueled by concerns/sympathy but jealously. I remember a dwarf getting 1ft+ LL and posting her experience/result on reddit. She got like 30k+ upvotes with almost all of them being very supportive/positive comments - this is because even if a dwarf gets LL they will still be taller than her, but do you know which community brandished her for getting the surgery? The dwarf community. This is because her height change effects their communities status quo and gives the idea of " If she can do it why can't I?" - but as you know this surgery is almost  inaccessible for the majority of people out there due the financial, emotional, and physical investment required.

Now imagine a 170cm person suddenly becoming 180cm - they essentially went from short to tall which gives the vast majority of people the feeling I mentioned before - it breaks the status quo and give them a major case of FOMO. So rather than giving constructive comments they go straight to hateful comments like " You are a cripple now", "Yeah but you have t-rex arms", or " You will regret it in 30 years ".

[shortnomore]

Now imagine a 170cm person suddenly becoming 180cm - they essentially went from short to tall which gives the vast majority of people the feeling I mentioned before - it breaks the status quo and give them a major case of FOMO. So rather than giving constructive comments they go straight to hateful comments like " You are a cripple now", "Yeah but you have t-rex arms", or " You will regret it in 30 years ".

It's this. It's average guys not wanting height to become a surgery fueled arms race.

[Temoc]

Most will call it crazy because an overwhelming majority of them thinks you wouldn't be able to walk or get disabled in exchange for 3 extra inches of height + the surgery itself costs a minimum of 50k+ and 4 months of recovery so 99% of people wouldn't be able to afford it.

Usually lot of the hate that comes after getting LL isn't fueled by concerns/sympathy but jealously. I remember a dwarf getting 1ft+ LL and posting her experience/result on reddit. She got like 30k+ upvotes with almost all of them being very supportive/positive comments - this is because even if a dwarf gets LL they will still be taller than her, but do you know which community brandished her for getting the surgery? The dwarf community. This is because her height change effects their communities status quo and gives the idea of " If she can do it why can't I?" - but as you know this surgery is almost  inaccessible for the majority of people out there due the financial, emotional, and physical investment required.

Now imagine a 170cm person suddenly becoming 180cm - they essentially went from short to tall which gives the vast majority of people the feeling I mentioned before - it breaks the status quo and give them a major case of FOMO. So rather than giving constructive comments they go straight to hateful comments like " You are a cripple now", "Yeah but you have t-rex arms", or " You will regret it in 30 years ".

I think you pretty much nailed it. It's particularly prevalent in the short men community where it's filled with insecure guys that spend their lives doing steroids and lifting, wearing lifts, getting tattoo sleeves, trying to look more manly. Then suddenly some guy does a surgery and is instantly more attractive than them.
Then they lash out with "One leg kick and it's over for you", "do you know what girls hate more than short men? Insecure men" etc. On Instagram you have them making fun of LeTremba, Eric Cohen and other guys who did it at Turkey.

Also, about the costs, I think they're a little overrated. At least if you live in a developed country. 50k is about the price of a nice car. Or like a year of renting a small apartment in NYC. The main problem is that if you work a physical job you will not be able work for a long time but if you work a desk job or remote it isn't that big of a deal. If you save 1k USD a month, you will have enough money to do it in a cheaper country in a couple of years. That's saving a little over 30 USD a day, maybe an extra hour of work or two if you don't make minimum wage.

[Sorcerer]

I think you pretty much nailed it. It's particularly prevalent in the short men community where it's filled with insecure guys that spend their lives doing steroids and lifting, wearing lifts, getting tattoo sleeves, trying to look more manly. Then suddenly some guy does a surgery and is instantly more attractive than them.
Then they lash out with "One leg kick and it's over for you", "do you know what girls hate more than short men? Insecure men" etc. On Instagram you have them making fun of LeTremba, Eric Cohen and other guys who did it at Turkey.

Also, about the costs, I think they're a little overrated. At least if you live in a developed country. 50k is about the price of a nice car. Or like a year of renting a small apartment in NYC. The main problem is that if you work a physical job you will not be able work for a long time but if you work a desk job or remote it isn't that big of a deal. If you save 1k USD a month, you will have enough money to do it in a cheaper country in a couple of years. That's saving a little over 30 USD a day, maybe an extra hour of work or two if you don't make minimum wage.

It's just one of human's natures, that when you get better than them they will get jealous and say sour-graped stuffs like so what you are gonna be a cripple in years or else. I think this thing also happens for a hot woman who does surgeries to become hot. Other girls get jealous because she suddenly becomes hotter than them and they say 'So what? Your face will be fked up in years and if you don't find a fine man your children will suffer a lot because your genes are still trashy, if you want to have children'

[LG1816]

Acceptance is a cope. How you treat yourself doesn't effect how others will treat you. Confidence is definitely important and I dont deny that, but the truth is that being short is a detriment and being ugly is a detriment too. You can "accept" it in the sense that you understand it is what it is, and decide to live life as best as you can even with these detriments, but that is by definition a cope.

But surely to 'cope' implies that it's affecting you in the first place. My point is, that there are plenty of people who seem to not have their height affect them even if they're short; they're confident enough in themselves that whilst they recognize they're short, it isn't the all-consuming, life-ruining thing that it is for many of us here. So they're not coping, their mindset is different -- their assessment of reality is different. If this is as objective as we say, why aren't all short men experiencing horrible lives because of it?

I don't deny it's objective in the sense that being taller is an undeniably positive characteristic, but I don't really think the absolute objective reality is that if you're short, you have a worse life and are therefore 'coping' with that reality. If this is the case, then surely it's all more mindset than it is about the physical issue.

Most Orthopedic surgeons do not support limb lengthening for cosmetic purposes for reasons that do not matter. I don't care, nobody else cares, their own beliefs are just their own. Again, their reasoning why honestly doesn't matter. Its irrelevant. Most Orthopedic surgeons can't even do the procedure LOL. Being able to stick a nail into someone's femur does not mean they have the knowledge or skill to prevent complications. Limb lengthening is a specialty within a specialty(limb lengthening, deformity correction, etc)

Well, I'm talking about surgeons who are actually very experienced with using intramedullary rods -- I mean, that's many orthopedic surgeons bread-and-butter as medical professionals who deal with trauma and deformity correction. Is that really irrelevant? I don't think it would be in any other area of medicine. There are barely any doctors who do this cosmetically, and the consensus within the orthopedic community -- the experts -- is that this is pretty much unanimously a bad idea. That's not nothing, surely. I don't necessarily think that just because it can be done safely, it's a given that it's morally acceptable. I'm not saying it isn't, but I think the whole issue of limb lengthening is much more of a gray area than people claim to admit.

"Focus their entire lives on getting plastic surgery" is massively exaggerated. Limb Lengthening is the most time-intensive cosmetic procedure you can get and the most expensive. Even double jaw surgery is a faster recovery and cheaper. A rhinoplasty is cheap, and you recover from it fast. The halo effect is real. Once you get Limb lengthening, the height is with you forever. You'll never shrink except for your spine, which affects tall people too.

I agree, but that's not what I was talking about. I was using it as an example to ask where this line of thinking ends. If it was well within sanity to fix any objective flaw, where do you draw the line? Was Michael Jackson justified in his decision to alter his face how he did? You could say that, given the prevalence of racism and the skew of Western beauty standards, he was objectively in the right mind to make himself as caucasian as possible.

Exactly. The problem can be fixed! Patient satisfaction rates are some of the highest when compared to most other surgical procedures. The #1 thing is picking a good surgeon. You need a good surgeon, which luckily are easy to find...just pricey.

#1 factor is your surgeon. You need a good surgeon. If you pick a good surgeon, complications aren't a problem. 1) A good surgeon will prevent them from happening in the first place 2) A good surgeon can fix any complications that arise. Even "chance" complications like infections can be solved with a round of antibiotics(or using internals which reduce the risk). Equinus is because your surgeon let you over lengthen, fibula migration is because your surgeon didn't place syndesmotic screws, non-union is because your surgeon didn't closely watch your progress with regular x-rays. Axial deviations are because your surgeon didn't properly implant the nail. The list goes on and on. The one thing that I will concede is embolisms. They are very rare, but it's possible. But even those the risk can be reduced by 1) doing quad surgeries spread apart 2) venting prior to reaming 3) blood thinners

Are infections always solved by antibiotics, though? The theoretical risk of amputation is a tough pill to swallow.

[LG1816]

I kinda think OP confuses body dysphoria with body dysmorphia. The former describes a state in which the patient is suffering from the mental issues caused by being short/fatty etc., while the latter describes a state in which the patient is still doing so while being slightly or even not flawed body-wise.

I think the two have become more difficult to distinguish because height as an attractive quality has become so much more of a prevalent talking point. The modern-day narrative is that you're short if you're 5'9 -- that anything under the average height of 5'10 is short. Then you've got this supposed sliding scale of benefits going up to about 6'4, so you have short men just wanting to be average, and then average men feel inferior compared to the tall guys who are deemed to have all the success. Obviously, it's worse for the genuinely short guy, but my point is that 'short' seems to be changing -- not physically, but in the eyes of this generation.

[LG1816]

the term body dysmorphia implies its a mental issue i.e "in your head"

there are documented, studied, and obvious major drawbacks to being ACTUALLY short (below 5'7/5'8 in USA).

I think this is somewhat of a misconception. It's more that you have an immense preocupation with a flaw, not that the flaw doesn't exist.

[onedaytall]

Acceptance is a cope. How you treat yourself doesn't effect how others will treat you.

This is fundamentally untrue. How we carry ourselves and what energy we bring out has a lot to do how people treat us. To say that it doesn't matter is equally ignorant as to say that height doesn't matter. Both affect the final equation.

Many people here seem to be against the other aspects besides leg lengthening, which to me is very strange if your true honest goal is to improve your life. Leg lengthening will do a lot for sure based on people's positive experiences, but you don't have to be against self-work, confidence, therapy etc to be positively advocating LL. Many people obsessed with height and LL keep saying that acceptance is cope. To me it actually sounds very dismissive towards those who choose to "cope".

Prince coped pretty well for being around 5'2". People will say, oh that's because he was rich, successful superstar. But he was short, sexy, confident and beautiful before he was any of those other things. He had insecurity about his height, I mean he was truly short. But he sure coped well, much better than most six footers out there.

I'm all for leg lengthening for those who want it, and I'm somewhat considering it myself too. And I'm not trying to deny how society generally views and treats short men. But just saying, those who cope well and live happy, successful lives, deserve more than people saying "he was just coping". And of all people, it is the short men out here calling them "copers". Of all people you would think short people would have empathy and respect for those who go through all that with the disadvantage they have and beat the odds.

Just my opinion of course.

[stretched]

This is fundamentally untrue. How we carry ourselves and what energy we bring out has a lot to do how people treat us. To say that it doesn't matter is equally ignorant as to say that height doesn't matter. Both affect the final equation.

Many people here seem to be against the other aspects besides leg lengthening, which to me is very strange if your true honest goal is to improve your life. Leg lengthening will do a lot for sure based on people's positive experiences, but you don't have to be against self-work, confidence, therapy etc to be positively advocating LL. Many people obsessed with height and LL keep saying that acceptance is cope. To me it actually sounds very dismissive towards those who choose to "cope".

Prince coped pretty well for being around 5'2". People will say, oh that's because he was rich, successful superstar. But he was short, sexy, confident and beautiful before he was any of those other things. He had insecurity about his height, I mean he was truly short. But he sure coped well, much better than most six footers out there.

I'm all for leg lengthening for those who want it, and I'm somewhat considering it myself too. And I'm not trying to deny how society generally views and treats short men. But just saying, those who cope well and live happy, successful lives, deserve more than people saying "he was just coping". And of all people, it is the short men out here calling them "copers". Of all people you would think short people would have empathy and respect for those who go through all that with the disadvantage they have and beat the odds.

Just my opinion of course.

I 100% agree. Technically living is “cope” cause we’re all gonna die lol. Everyone has things they don’t like about themself, maybe it’s height, hair, weight, etc and truthfully speaking sometimes self acceptance can really do wonders for you. Sure people will still treat you differently, but what really matters is how you feel about yourself.

Limb lengthening can truly change the lives of those who are truly fundamentally dissatisfied with their height in the hands of a good surgeon. You can see plenty of examples of this on this forum and in cyborg4life podcast

However there are a lot of people who shouldn’t do this. Everyone whose done this procedure goes in depth on how difficult it is and you must keep in mind this is an extreme solution and should only be done when your height dissatisfaction is that great.

The truth is most people reading this should probably not do LL / will never get it. However for those who constantly obsess over their height and have tried numerous times to accept themselves, this procedure has the chance to really help you.

Self acceptance and “coping” should be tried before resorting to LL because at the end of the day you should not be spending 10s of thousands to please others, what really matters is how YOU feel about yourself. If LL will make you feel better about yourself, then maybe it’s for you.

 I wish everyone the best of luck no matter what choice they decide to make.

This is also just my opinion
Cheers