Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: OzBoy39 on August 13, 2022, 10:17:00 AM
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Hi Everyone,
I've been reading pretty much all of you in this forum since I decided to jump in and book my surgery and I must thank each and everyone of you who posted their experiences, the details of PT, surgery, hospitals, doctors. You've been an incredible source of information.
Also a big shout out to Vic from @Cyborg4Life. He is th hero among us and deserves all the success he can get.
In about 2 weeks time (Aug 24th) I'll go for a bilateral femoral lengthening through G-Nail with Dr. Giotikas in Athens.
I have explored various options before this but the combination of being a weight bearing nail (although with a gruesome ratcheting mechanism lol), the package that Dr. G. offers (they include full PT in the cost... that's quite good), his reputation and overall the "vibe" of competence that I got in my 1 hour consultation with him convinced me that he is the right option. Ah.. and the location. You can't beat Greece in summertime.
I'll be staying at the Novotel in Athens, which is the closest hotel to the PT centre with all the amenities i was looking for (gym, pool, various restaurants...big breakfast...). If anyone is staying there too, please reach out and we can grab a few drinks together.
I thought I start this diary to share my experience, the goods, the bads... the ugly (hopefully not) and the achievements and get in return some much needed support from people that understand what most of us are driven from when going through this.
A bit of background. 38 years old, 164cm, 64Kg caucasian male. Live in Australia with my wife and an amazing kid (the real pain here is to leave him for about 2 months but my wife has been supportive of this from day one. Nobody else knows about this. Not my family not my friends. This is a solo journey and I'm lucky I can actually afford it (money and time).
About my current build... I'm fairly athletic and in good shape. Use to go hard-core to crossfit gym until 6-7 months ago when I literally stopped doing lower body hypertrophy sessions and only concentrated on stretching.
I still kept my upper body routine somewhat but just in order to.. maintain. I believe that will help heaps during lengthening to be able to move around. I did lose a lot of cardio stamina though as i havent been going to classes sonce then.
On the other hand, my flexibility gains have been quite satisfying. I'm at a point where as far as hamstrings go, I can easily go palms to ground with my elbow bended somewhat. On the hip flexor side, I can't quite gauge how flexible they are but I've been concentrating most of my efforts on those recently as I understand and I feel they will be key to success and are notoriously harder to stretch than the hammies.
What are my goals?
Well, I set myself a 3 tiered goal. I'd like to aim at a minimum of 7cm as tier1, which will make me happy as ill get closer to average (and with shoes i should reach close to 175cm), but if I feel good the ideal goal would be between 8-9cm.
If then things progress better than I expect (Im not holding my breadth here) I would venture the double digit goal as my ultimate target. Yes I understand this is risky and all that and I do appreciate everyone providing comments to other patient to don't risk a healthy body for an extra cm. I'll see how thing go and follow the Doctor's and PT's advise when I'm there.
Other than this, I hope I can manage to squeeze in some trip around Athens as I believe this time of the year the weather should be awesome (I like hot sweaty climates).
Anyway, hope to be able to provide insights that will help other prospective patients, do don't shy away from questions.
Cheers
OzBoy
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Welcome to the forum. I know Australia is a country where many men are tall, but you are not short. 164cm is a good height. I have met people shorter than you when I was in Australia.
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Thanks @ilovescience.
Yeah definitely not "the" shortest, but I'd say within the bottom 3-5 percentile.
Let's see if we can reach the dream of getting to somewhere around the 45th percentile at 173cm.
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Good luck on your journey!
I'm considering Dr G for early next year and have a couple of questions. How much does the 1 hour consultation cost and what things did you discuss? Also, how much more expensive is staying at Novotel compared to Montaza, the one Athens BJR recommend?
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Hi Everyone,
I've been reading pretty much all of you in this forum since I decided to jump in and book my surgery and I must thank each and everyone of you who posted their experiences, the details of PT, surgery, hospitals, doctors. You've been an incredible source of information.
Also a big shout out to Vic from @Cyborg4Life. He is th hero among us and deserves all the success he can get.
In about 2 weeks time (Aug 24th) I'll go for a bilateral femoral lengthening through G-Nail with Dr. Giotikas in Athens.
I have explored various options before this but the combination of being a weight bearing nail (although with a gruesome ratcheting mechanism lol), the package that Dr. G. offers (they include full PT in the cost... that's quite good), his reputation and overall the "vibe" of competence that I got in my 1 hour consultation with him convinced me that he is the right option. Ah.. and the location. You can't beat Greece in summertime.
I'll be staying at the Novotel in Athens, which is the closest hotel to the PT centre with all the amenities i was looking for (gym, pool, various restaurants...big breakfast...). If anyone is staying there too, please reach out and we can grab a few drinks together.
I thought I start this diary to share my experience, the goods, the bads... the ugly (hopefully not) and the achievements and get in return some much needed support from people that understand what most of us are driven from when going through this.
A bit of background. 38 years old, 164cm, 64Kg caucasian male. Live in Australia with my wife and an amazing kid (the real pain here is to leave him for about 2 months but my wife has been supportive of this from day one. Nobody else knows about this. Not my family not my friends. This is a solo journey and I'm lucky I can actually afford it (money and time).
About my current build... I'm fairly athletic and in good shape. Use to go hard-core to crossfit gym until 6-7 months ago when I literally stopped doing lower body hypertrophy sessions and only concentrated on stretching.
I still kept my upper body routine somewhat but just in order to.. maintain. I believe that will help heaps during lengthening to be able to move around. I did lose a lot of cardio stamina though as i havent been going to classes sonce then.
On the other hand, my flexibility gains have been quite satisfying. I'm at a point where as far as hamstrings go, I can easily go palms to ground with my elbow bended somewhat. On the hip flexor side, I can't quite gauge how flexible they are but I've been concentrating most of my efforts on those recently as I understand and I feel they will be key to success and are notoriously harder to stretch than the hammies.
What are my goals?
Well, I set myself a 3 tiered goal. I'd like to aim at a minimum of 7cm as tier1, which will make me happy as ill get closer to average (and with shoes i should reach close to 175cm), but if I feel good the ideal goal would be between 8-9cm.
If then things progress better than I expect (Im not holding my breadth here) I would venture the double digit goal as my ultimate target. Yes I understand this is risky and all that and I do appreciate everyone providing comments to other patient to don't risk a healthy body for an extra cm. I'll see how thing go and follow the Doctor's and PT's advise when I'm there.
Other than this, I hope I can manage to squeeze in some trip around Athens as I believe this time of the year the weather should be awesome (I like hot sweaty climates).
Anyway, hope to be able to provide insights that will help other prospective patients, do don't shy away from questions.
Cheers
OzBoy
Hey Ozboy,
First, Congratulations, and I wish you to reach your goal!
Patients have had/have some difficulties with G-Nail clicking. The package of Dr. Giotikas suggests nurses will assist you with clicks if you stay at the Montaza or Grand Hyatt hotels.
Nearly all of the patients stay there, and I think it can be very helpful for social situations.
I have a few questions.
Why didn't you stay at the Montaza or Grand Hyatt hotels?
How can Dr. Giotikas solve non-union with G-nails that cannot be reversed?
Have you seen/spoken to other patients who have had G-Nail treatment and checked how they walk now/do sports to be impressed by the results of G-Nail?
According to my understanding, Dr. Giotikas is staying in Athens for two weeks and in the UK for two weeks. What are your options if you need him urgently?
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Hey Thankscience
It was 200 euro if I remember correct. This was after the free 15 mins consult.
We discussed pretty much everything I wanted to clarify. Dr. G gave me a thorough review of the process pre, during and post op. Explained the risks in details and answered all the questions I had. We also went through my background and lifestyle to assess potential habits to change before the ops.
About the Novotel, it is definitely more expensive than the Montaza, but I had the chance to pay it through my frequent flyer points (due to Covid I kept accumulating so many points that pretty much I spent 0 cash at Novotel for 2 months... Super sweet deal. They didn't have the Montaza as an option. The Hyatt instead was fully booked until Nov 10).
That was pretty much it
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Hi Infinite.
Thank you man.
Yeah I would have definitely preferred staying at the Montaza and or the Hyatt (although this last one for this period is super expensive even with the discount offered).
But I had this deal that I can pay the hotel with frequent flyer points that I accumulated during Covid and the Montaza wasn't among the options. The Hyatt is fully booked until Sep10.
Regarding the non-union, I understood from him that is a rare circumstance in limb lengthening, and something a patient and his doctor need to be on top of (ahead of the game) through monitoring with x-rays, excercise, nutrition and supplementation. If non union starts to develop, the first option is to slow down the lengthening and if it becomes a chronic condition... Down the surgery path again you go.
The G-nail as we know is a non reversible nail so ... Not much you can do in terms of compression.
I haven't spoken directly to any other patient. And I believe by reading and watching pretty much any testimonial out there that
1- it is possible to go back to a perfectly normal life
2- I think you definitely will have reduced performance in sports activities with limitations that will most likely impact thongs like jumping, explosive burst from your legs and similar motions.
Me personally, I'm almost in my 40s. Not chasing any Olympic dream anymore, so as long as I can regain my mobility/flexibility (which now btw is definitely above average due to all the stretching I'm doing😂) to be able to perform simple sporting activities, I'd be super happy then.
Having to continue stretching forever... If that's a thong, it's definitely not a problem. I love this routine of stretching your body out and after you get somewhat good at it, you sort of crave it, it's a relaxing part of my day.
Last about Dr G. Splitting his time between Athens and the UK. Yeah there's that, but again from what I understand, most patients see their doctors every few weeks or even months. If some complications arise that require medical attentions, if it's life threatening I'm assuming it's not going to be dr G only to take care of it. There will be a team of professional within the Mediterraneo hospital that will take care of whatever comes up.
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Thanks for the answers! I didn't think Dr G did it 2 weeks in Athens then 2 weeks in the UK - I read somewhere it was a few days per week in Athens then a few days in the UK. I might be wrong though.
Are you getting travel insurance? Also, what types of stretches are you using for hip flexors?
I look forward to reading your journey!
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No problems at all.
Yeah I'm honestly not too sure about his schedule. I might have asked at the time of the consultation but can't remember now.
I looked quite a lot into travel insurances. I got myself one middle tier for about 300$, BUT they clearly state, like all other insurances, that they do not cover for any medical claim related to a condition that... It's the reason for the trip overseas. So I'm not really sure how useful it'll be. But for 300$, at least I'm covered if I damage my phone or laptop or for some delays and those usual things they cover.
Stretches... I followed these 2 channels on YouTube
- Tom Merrick
- Strength Side
I started doing their follow along routines and then adjusted and mixed up excercises with the ones I found most effective to me.
The routines from Tom are super relaxing. Nice music flowing in background and overall a nice Zen time before bed. Strength side added a few very intense stretches (hams and hip flexors) which are my favourite now.
Check the link here
https://youtu.be/Z04ldN6WnRY
https://youtu.be/W5LvKNElKH4
They are pretty intense though! It takes a while to start enjoying them depending on your starting range of motion.
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Hi Infinite.
Thank you man.
Yeah I would have definitely preferred staying at the Montaza and or the Hyatt (although this last one for this period is super expensive even with the discount offered).
But I had this deal that I can pay the hotel with frequent flyer points that I accumulated during Covid and the Montaza wasn't among the options. The Hyatt is fully booked until Sep10.
Regarding the non-union, I understood from him that is a rare circumstance in limb lengthening, and something a patient and his doctor need to be on top of (ahead of the game) through monitoring with x-rays, excercise, nutrition and supplementation. If non union starts to develop, the first option is to slow down the lengthening and if it becomes a chronic condition... Down the surgery path again you go.
The G-nail as we know is a non reversible nail so ... Not much you can do in terms of compression.
I haven't spoken directly to any other patient. And I believe by reading and watching pretty much any testimonial out there that
1- it is possible to go back to a perfectly normal life
2- I think you definitely will have reduced performance in sports activities with limitations that will most likely impact thongs like jumping, explosive burst from your legs and similar motions.
Me personally, I'm almost in my 40s. Not chasing any Olympic dream anymore, so as long as I can regain my mobility/flexibility (which now btw is definitely above average due to all the stretching I'm doing😂) to be able to perform simple sporting activities, I'd be super happy then.
Having to continue stretching forever... If that's a thong, it's definitely not a problem. I love this routine of stretching your body out and after you get somewhat good at it, you sort of crave it, it's a relaxing part of my day.
Last about Dr G. Splitting his time between Athens and the UK. Yeah there's that, but again from what I understand, most patients see their doctors every few weeks or even months. If some complications arise that require medical attentions, if it's life threatening I'm assuming it's not going to be dr G only to take care of it. There will be a team of professional within the Mediterraneo hospital that will take care of whatever comes up.
Hi OzBoy,
I appreciate your complete response.
Your doctor should be available 24 hours a day. This is not a minor procedure, and you must check with your doctor daily. If you experience any complications, you should catch them right away.
What do you mean by "Down the surgery path again you go"?
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Yes that would be ideal, but there's always trade offs.
I am ok with it.
Regarding the "going down the surgery way again" that was related to the non union. Ultimately the worst case to fix that is to intervene surgically again.
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Best of success mate
Hi Everyone,
I've been reading pretty much all of you in this forum since I decided to jump in and book my surgery and I must thank each and everyone of you who posted their experiences, the details of PT, surgery, hospitals, doctors. You've been an incredible source of information.
Also a big shout out to Vic from @Cyborg4Life. He is th hero among us and deserves all the success he can get.
In about 2 weeks time (Aug 24th) I'll go for a bilateral femoral lengthening through G-Nail with Dr. Giotikas in Athens.
I have explored various options before this but the combination of being a weight bearing nail (although with a gruesome ratcheting mechanism lol), the package that Dr. G. offers (they include full PT in the cost... that's quite good), his reputation and overall the "vibe" of competence that I got in my 1 hour consultation with him convinced me that he is the right option. Ah.. and the location. You can't beat Greece in summertime.
I'll be staying at the Novotel in Athens, which is the closest hotel to the PT centre with all the amenities i was looking for (gym, pool, various restaurants...big breakfast...). If anyone is staying there too, please reach out and we can grab a few drinks together.
I thought I start this diary to share my experience, the goods, the bads... the ugly (hopefully not) and the achievements and get in return some much needed support from people that understand what most of us are driven from when going through this.
A bit of background. 38 years old, 164cm, 64Kg caucasian male. Live in Australia with my wife and an amazing kid (the real pain here is to leave him for about 2 months but my wife has been supportive of this from day one. Nobody else knows about this. Not my family not my friends. This is a solo journey and I'm lucky I can actually afford it (money and time).
About my current build... I'm fairly athletic and in good shape. Use to go hard-core to crossfit gym until 6-7 months ago when I literally stopped doing lower body hypertrophy sessions and only concentrated on stretching.
I still kept my upper body routine somewhat but just in order to.. maintain. I believe that will help heaps during lengthening to be able to move around. I did lose a lot of cardio stamina though as i havent been going to classes sonce then.
On the other hand, my flexibility gains have been quite satisfying. I'm at a point where as far as hamstrings go, I can easily go palms to ground with my elbow bended somewhat. On the hip flexor side, I can't quite gauge how flexible they are but I've been concentrating most of my efforts on those recently as I understand and I feel they will be key to success and are notoriously harder to stretch than the hammies.
What are my goals?
Well, I set myself a 3 tiered goal. I'd like to aim at a minimum of 7cm as tier1, which will make me happy as ill get closer to average (and with shoes i should reach close to 175cm), but if I feel good the ideal goal would be between 8-9cm.
If then things progress better than I expect (Im not holding my breadth here) I would venture the double digit goal as my ultimate target. Yes I understand this is risky and all that and I do appreciate everyone providing comments to other patient to don't risk a healthy body for an extra cm. I'll see how thing go and follow the Doctor's and PT's advise when I'm there.
Other than this, I hope I can manage to squeeze in some trip around Athens as I believe this time of the year the weather should be awesome (I like hot sweaty climates).
Anyway, hope to be able to provide insights that will help other prospective patients, do don't shy away from questions.
Cheers
OzBoy
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Thank You! I'll keep my finger crossed (and legs too. It help with stretching the IT bands ;D)
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I'm curious to know if the price of g-nail is still the same as on the website considering the high inflation in Greece atm
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Yes that would be ideal, but there's always trade offs.
I am ok with it.
Regarding the "going down the surgery way again" that was related to the non union. Ultimately the worst case to fix that is to intervene surgically again.
Hello OzBoy,
Wishing you success in your endeavors!
You can count on me to stay behind you!
There will be a lot of value in this diary.
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No problems at all.
Yeah I'm honestly not too sure about his schedule. I might have asked at the time of the consultation but can't remember now.
I looked quite a lot into travel insurances. I got myself one middle tier for about 300$, BUT they clearly state, like all other insurances, that they do not cover for any medical claim related to a condition that... It's the reason for the trip overseas. So I'm not really sure how useful it'll be. But for 300$, at least I'm covered if I damage my phone or laptop or for some delays and those usual things they cover.
Stretches... I followed these 2 channels on YouTube
- Tom Merrick
- Strength Side
I started doing their follow along routines and then adjusted and mixed up excercises with the ones I found most effective to me.
The routines from Tom are super relaxing. Nice music flowing in background and overall a nice Zen time before bed. Strength side added a few very intense stretches (hams and hip flexors) which are my favourite now.
They are pretty intense though! It takes a while to start enjoying them depending on your starting range of motion.
Also, thanks so much for the stretching videos! I'll be sure to start incorporating them into my routine.
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I'll be staying at the Novotel in Athens, which is the closest hotel to the PT centre with all the amenities i was looking for (gym, pool, various restaurants...big breakfast...). If anyone is staying there too, please reach out and we can grab a few drinks together.
What are your thoughts on Novotel vs Montaza (one of the hotels Dr. Giotikas sends the nurses to?)
Does he also send them to Novotel or what is your plan for that?
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By chance do you have the official website or email for Novotel? Having trouble finding their official website from a google search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=novotel+athens+greece&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS900US900&oq=novotel+athens+greece&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j0i22i30.2667j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
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By chance do you have the official website or email for Novotel? Having trouble finding their official website from a google search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=novotel+athens+greece&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS900US900&oq=novotel+athens+greece&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j0i22i30.2667j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Not sure how Novotel is and how it compares to Montaza. I'll let you know when I arrive there. It's definitely a higher tier and its an international chain with pretty decent standards so I'm expecting it to be good.
In regards to nursing I'm gonna have to pay extra I believe.. But since I sort of gotten the hotel with no cash expenditure, then it's ok for me.
Then from Novotel to the PT centre in Peristeri it's a 11min taxi or Uber ride. Uber gives me about 7-8 Euro per trip, so that's another expense to keep in mind.
Novotel website should be this one below
https://all.accor.com/hotel/0866/index.en.crapml#:~:text=The%204%2Dstar%2C%20Novotel%20Athens,%2C%20Monastiraki%2C%20Psiri%2C%20Acropolis.
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Welcome to the forum. I know Australia is a country where many men are tall, but you are not short. 164cm is a good height. I have met people shorter than you when I was in Australia.
The delusion on this forum is killing me
As for Giotikas… I sent him various emails months ago and never got a response. He also has a murder case behind his back. Screw that guy
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I'll keep my fingers crossed I don't make that list.
Good luck with your betzbone. Keep updating like you did in your diary.
All the best
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Is the price of your surgery still the same as on the Athens BJR website?
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I haven't checked in a while. I think I paid around 51 or 52K euro if I remember correct. It was the exact amount advertised on the website a few months ago.
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That would be 47845 Euro then for the G-nail according to the website. I'm glad to hear it's still the same.
How has your family reacted to you telling them about this surgery?
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Yeah that was the amount. Just checked again.
My family as in my wife she knows and she's supportive and she's now taking care of the little one back home.
My family as in my parents, relative and friends don't know anything about it. I kept it from everyone and it'll stay that way until I'm done.
I know they wouldn't understand and then they'll try to talk me down about it. I don't want to have to deal with it. I'll eventually tell them after I'm done. But I need my mind strong and clear to go through the pains of this procedure and stick with it until the end
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Hi Ozboy39! I wish you all the best for the upcoming surgery! I'm closely following ur diary since i'm also in my late 30s.
Did you also talk to other LL surgeons? Why didn't you choose the Betzbone?
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Thanks Limbfan2020. Appreciated.
Yes I was considering Betz together with Giotikas.
I didn't speak with Betz personally, haven't gotten that far.
I had reached out to them too asking for general information and received prompt reply.
Same (similar) nail and technique, no it bands, no physio included, small town in Germany, Betz offered the chance to repatriate you after 3 weeks although I don't quite like that option. But mostly...
Giotikas gave me a good honest vibe in the interview (he sounds very data driven and risk averse on top of just getting me the vibe of a honest person), plus I've red everything I could find on the internet and his reputation seems pretty high. And so I chose this for myself.
And Definitely the first 2 days in Athens have been great.
Fingers crossed.
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Are you taking anything for nerves prior to the surgery?
Thanks again for sharing your experience!
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Not a problem at all.
I actually didn't even know there were products to take pre-emptively for nerve pain, so no I didn't take any.
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I meant nerves as in anxiety in this case ;D
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Hahah yeah right! ;D
I'm fairly calm still. Really trying to focus my mind on work and other things.
Today I'll go for the pre-op visit. I'm sure after that it'll be game on and we'll see how I feel then.
But again, so far it's not much about the surgery itself but really the doubts I have about what's coming next
Is the clicking gonna hurt? What does the anaesthesia feel like? How painful will i be at wake up? Will I be able to walk to the wc and back? Will I be able to go down to the kitchen with crutches? How am I gonna sleep? Will I need to hire a nurse?
The fear of all that's unknown I guess. I'll try and keep myself to the present moment at each stage and cope with one thing at a time.
Ah and I marked the wall with a pencil with the various targets im after 168cm, 170, 172. That hopefully will keep my eye and spirit focused on the prize.
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Hahah yeah right! ;D
I'm fairly calm still. Really trying to focus my mind on work and other things.
Today I'll go for the pre-op visit. I'm sure after that it'll be game on and we'll see how I feel then.
But again, so far it's not much about the surgery itself but really the doubts I have about what's coming next
Is the clicking gonna hurt? What does the anaesthesia feel like? How painful will i be at wake up? Will I be able to walk to the wc and back? Will I be able to go down to the kitchen with crutches? How am I gonna sleep? Will I need to hire a nurse?
The fear of all that's unknown I guess. I'll try and keep myself to the present moment at each stage and cope with one thing at a time.
Ah and I marked the wall with a pencil with the various targets im after 168cm, 170, 172. That hopefully will keep my eye and spirit focused on the prize.
Hi OzBoy,
We are all watching over you here behind you to make sure to keep safe!
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Thank you Infinite.
Drinks are on me when this is all over.
Today is D day. I'll provide a detailed update when I'm on the other side and officially become a cyborg.
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Good luck!!
Hahah yeah right! ;D
I'm fairly calm still. Really trying to focus my mind on work and other things.
Today I'll go for the pre-op visit. I'm sure after that it'll be game on and we'll see how I feel then.
But again, so far it's not much about the surgery itself but really the doubts I have about what's coming next
Is the clicking gonna hurt? What does the anaesthesia feel like? How painful will i be at wake up? Will I be able to walk to the wc and back? Will I be able to go down to the kitchen with crutches? How am I gonna sleep? Will I need to hire a nurse?
The fear of all that's unknown I guess. I'll try and keep myself to the present moment at each stage and cope with one thing at a time.
Ah and I marked the wall with a pencil with the various targets im after 168cm, 170, 172. That hopefully will keep my eye and spirit focused on the prize.
I like the technique of marking the wall. That gives you something clear you can visualise and work towards.
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And we made it. Nails are in, I'm in bed Nd just woke up. 216am
This won't be a detailed update, but first feelings, thoughts are
No pain so far.
Very stiff legs. I can bend them back but it takes a good minute to slowly flex.
No nausea, no vomiting or anything like that. I feel really good actually.
We did a couple of clicks a few hours back when I woke up from anaesthesia and it was ok. No pain, just the awful sound.
This place is really good. The room I'm in is definitely better than the hotel .
I stood up before together with the nurse and it was ok although not sure il be able to take steps yet. We'll try that today.
I'll provide more details later hopefully if I can manage to use my laptop.
Thank you everyone so far for the support
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I'm glad to hear it went well and you haven't got much pain!
Sounds like they might've made some improvements to the place compared to some previous diaries I've read.
Do you know how much Dr G. lengthened your leg during surgery? I wasn't aware they get you to do clicks on day 1. I thought they usually wait a week before starting clicks.
Did you get a catheter by any chance? I read they give you the option prior to surgery for that too.
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Hi thankscience
Yes, as far as comfort goes, I'm on level4 which is the newer section of the hospital and it's really nice up here.
I haven't asked about how much he lengthened. I was a bit fuzzy yesterday and didn't make many questions at all. I just wanted to sleep.
Yes I got a catheter down there. They will remove it today thanks goodness. Not painful but weird. It almost feels like you're peeing on yourself and everything I adjust myself OJ the bed I can feel it moving .
The clicks do start after 1 week but they wanted to show me how it worked and also see if I had any pain doing it. In all honesty though, yesterday I was on whatever painkiller they had on my IV line, so not sure if this pain free click will stay that way.
I stopped taking iv painkillers at around 230am last night and i dont have any pain so far. I just feel compression on my legs which are super stiff and swollen.
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I guess it's time for an update
Day 2 post op
-The GOODS
The entire team of doctor Giotikas (starting with himself) have been fantastic. Since the day before the ops to now and ongoing I have full assistance and support on anything I need.
They've provided me with every inch of support I was needing (especially pre surgery I was getting a bit anxious). I'm super happy with them.
The hospital residence absolutely above anything I could imagine. Food, nurses, the room (which is better than my hotel).
The care I'm receiving in terms of checkups, instructions IV medication and anything else definitely 5 star rated.
- The BAD
My legs, I mean I was not expecting moving to be this hard. Yes it is only day 2 post op, but although I am mobile through either walker or wheelchair, getting in and out of bed is a super struggle, if I don't move for like 10 minutes I basically get stuck and it takes a further minute to be able to slooowly bend your leg again (with also a decent amount of pain). Said that though, of I don't move (when I'm in bed watching something, I don't feel a thing).
This morning I managed to also sit on the toilette bowl and it hurts whilst sitting. I had to hold part of my weight with my hands. I just had to wee but wanted to try to see how number 2 would feel... well it doesn't feel good. I'm curious to see what ll happen when my bowel starts moving again.
Then moving on, the stiffness of my legs as soon as I don't use them for 5 minutes. It's incredible. It takes that little time to make them super stiff. And then you need a couple of leg raises and knee bends to release them a little bit. But they are always always stiff. A comparison for me is like imagine if you were to do your hardest leg day at the gym coming from a period of stop. The day after youd be very stiff. Now multiply by 3.
The size of my leg is such that the shorts I had brought with me and also a pair of joggers I have, no longer fit ;D
-The REST
The G-Nail feels super solid. And once again the ability to move around (as goofy as I am now) and be able to go to the bathroom, wash yourself, go pickup a laptop or whatever far outweighs the complexity behind the clicking. This is still my opinion and we'll see if that changes in the next few weeks.
Clicking so far has been ok. I only did 4 in total and today we'll do a few more just for me to get use to, bit I believe with the proper technique and warm-up/ stretching prior to that, it should hopefully be uneventful. They'll send a cycling bike to my hotel room so that'll help with the process.
That's it for now. I gotta stay strong. Mindset is the key because this, as man of you have said already, ain't no simple surgery. It'll test your willpower as it's doing with mine.
Last, if you're planning on doing this, please...please work on your upper body strength. I don't know what I would do if I couldn't lift my body up with my arms... it would be impossible.
If you do that then i believe that this journey can be done solo
Catch you next time people
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Thanks for the update. I'm glad to hear you're getting all the support you need! You've got this 8)
Did the Dr say how long you might be on the walker until you can move to crutches? Also how long will you be staying at the hospital before moving back to the hotel?
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Hey Thankscience,
Thanks!
Yes, I'll be on the walker for the first 3 weeks, then move to crutches. And also I'll be hopping around rather than walking as per instructions. This is because they don't really want you to do something stupid and hurt yourself or worst bend the nail (I totally understand it as my ability to potentially recover from a wrong step is practically zero). Hopping around is not too hard if you got good upper body strength.
Today I'll actually try the crutches with the physio and then around mid morning I'll be discharged and back to the hotel.
One of Dr Giotikas nurses will come with me to the hotel to help transfering all the things they have provided me (walker wheelchair, showers stool, crutches, meds).
Next week then we'll start the physio and lengthening journey.
A nurse will come in the first few days I guess to help with the clicking, but the goal is to become independent. I'll try and master it soon if I can.
On a side note, physical condition is improving rapidly. Last night I managed to sleep from 9pm to now 7am (woke up a couple of times but overall an awesome sleep). This just because i rolled on my tummy and on my side too (I really can't sleep on my back).
So for the ones who are concerned about this aspect of the process, although rolling is very tricky, it can be done. I got one accidental click doing so (the small one) and that's it.
Last point for the day, I haven't been able to go to the wc for number 2 yet. They say it's normal but I would really like to release a few extra kg off my body (it'll also help with nail strength I guess ;D)
Have a great day everyone
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I'm surprised you're able to sleep on your side and stomach over your back. I would've thought it would be easier to do the opposite.
Altogether you stayed at the hospital for 3 days then? Also what types of exercises are they getting you to do at physio now?
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Yeah I get it but I really never been able to sleep much on my back. You're right it would definitely be easier that way.
I haven't started the PT officially (will start next Tuesday) but I'm doing stretches for quads and hamstrings (laying in bed and pretty much puling the knee to my chest, pulling my ankle towards my butt, straightening the leg all the way down and last leg raises). I do them let's say every hour or so. 5 to 10 minuts or until i feel somewhat loose.
After sleeping especially on my tummy my legs become like 2 stiff logs and it takes a fair amount of effort to do the first raise and knee bend. This thing ain't a walk in the park for sure.
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How are you finding manoeuvring around with the walker?
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Hi Thankscience,
Moving around with the walker is ok. It is obviously slow but I don't think I would be able to safely move around (around my room... around the hotel, outside the hotel) with crutches.
So I'm happy with that for the time being.
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Day 6 post op - Clicking and PT
Guys, I've done my first 8 clicks per leg today.
I'm super happy and relieved because that's been at the front of my mind for the last few days. I was almost as anxious as before the surgery.
Now, how was it?
It's been super difficult inmust admit (I only managed to click with the help of the nurse who came here this morning who will come again tonight and the next few days until I can do it alone).
Specifically, a bit of context. I've been walking and moving around plus cycling quite a lot these last few days. More than I was advised by the Doctor.
I think I probably overdid it and last night and this morning I had quite a bit of pain and soreness in my legs. Specifically in my knees and in my inner thigh (abductors I think). Sharp stabbing pain everything I try to move. Also to be complete, I hadn't taken the strong painkiller provided me (Tramal I believe it's called). So:
Left leg super painful
Right leg manageable.
We started with the right leg which is notoriously the hardest. We tried 2 positions and I felt better with the one where we square the leg at 90 degrees and twist the lower leg outside for the big click. (The video from Betz institute basically where the guy lays flat on the bed, raise is right leg perpendicular to the table, then extend the lower leg at about 100 degrees and twist it outwards).
First few trys I couldn't click and i sort of panicked in my mind. I was twisting the leg and kept pushing it albeit slowly until I started feeling a deep stretching pain from the quad belly that forced me to stop. Tried a few times a slow as I could but as I kept "pushing through" the pain spiked up to unbearable levels.
But then we changed approach and tried to relax the muscle in position similar to when you do deep stretching and want to push yourself... basically twisting to the point of mild to medium pain and hold the leg there until the pain subside. Then push a little more...and then bit more until all of sudden... Clonk. Done. Then the resetting click comes almost automatically.
Once the first click was done, the others were really easy and painless. We did the other 7 in like 4 minutes. And absolutely no pain whatsoever when the device clicks.
Then we moved to the left leg. This was super difficult even though in theory (and as I also practiced myself in hospital) it should be very easy. My mindset was totally different than when we started the first one. I knew we were gonna manage how to make it click. It would just be a matter of patience.
Said that though, my left leg was already in pain (knee and thigh) just by laying on the bed, so, using the same technique, slowly...really slowly twisting more, holding and repeating this, after a good 20, 25 minutes (yeah it took that long and really lots of focus to push and hold through the pain) we got the dreaded click. the reset one was again almost automatic. After that, the other clicks were easy (not as the right leg but...easy)
Total time of this first session was a bit more than an hour. (0.5mm taller... feel like a giant already).
Notable things that I've understood from this session are:
- you gotta be regimented with this process. Cycle for 10 minutes, stretch,relax, take your time and stay calm.
-Don't overstress your leg with excercise. Dont be the hero. Follow what the doctor and nurse tell you to do. If they tell you to rest the whole day... just rest the whole day.
- I believe (not sure obviously but that's what I feel now) that the key for me to be able to click was to "hold" the leg for some seconds (10-15) at the point of discomfort during the twisting to let the muscle, the tendons, the thigh and everything else stretch and relax in that position and only then push a little further and repeat until the click. Not just keep pushing through the pain all at once. I will try this tonight again and see how it goes.
- I couldn't have done this by myself (i would like to know if anyone has ever done the first few clicks unaided...I'dbe very impressed). The help from the nurse provided by Dr G. (they will come until I feel independent with the clicking) was fantastic. She was really super patient and experienced in doing this and I found that to be the key to manage this.
-The clicking itself is absolutely painless. I mean, the moment the rod clicks, you don't really feel a thing. It's not your leg snapping. All the discomfort I had was ... leading to the point of click. Twisting towards that point pulling the already sore muscles and inner thigh. Again... for me, going super super slow and holding the leg in position as soon as I start feeling the pain ramping up was the key to get to the clicking point. Not sure if others have had the same experience or can relate. Let me know in case.
- I wanna be confident that tonight's clicks would be easier and although the nurse will come again to assist, I do want to try and do one or two entirely by myself (I can easily manage the reset click on both legs but that happens almost automatically).
Then we'll deal with the inflammation period when we get to it.
PT
I loved it. The guys and gals at this place are very good, easy to talk to and again patient.
We did a session of stretches for hammies, quads, abductors, and hip flexors. Basically they pull you in position until your limit. I loved it. I never really felt a huge amount of pain or something bad in general. Just good stretching pain. The guy performing the stretching on me was really delicate. Strong, but he knows when to stop. Everytime we finished one excercise he was careful to bring my leg very slowly back to the table. He knows the sharp pains we feel at this stage of the process.
Last we used the compression machine and ice machine as a final treat. What a feeling.better then getting a massage. I didn't wanna leave.
I also met other patients there so I really had a good time. I'm looking forward to that again.
That's it for the moment. Fingers crossed the clicks will get easier 🙏 from here on. I really hope so.
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Second set of clicks done for the day.
15 in total.
The evening clicks were definitely easier and it took us overall 25 minutes to finish. Could have done faster but we were chatting a lot.
Fingers crossed it gets better from here!
Fingers crossed it gets better.
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Can you ask the doctor question for me? In his opinion, is 3 months ago between femurs and tibia surgery?
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Congratz on your journey ;D. How do you feel so far? How is pain? Walking? Clicking?
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Can you ask the doctor question for me? In his opinion, is 3 months ago between femurs and tibia surgery?
??? I didn't get what you mean.
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Congratz on your journey ;D. How do you feel so far? How is pain? Walking? Clicking?
Well I guess if you read the posts above you can get an idea of how I feel ;)
Overall things are progressing well.
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I'm glad the clicks seem to be getting slightly easier!
Does the nurse visit your hotel twice a day? That seems like a lot of travel for them, but a great deal if that's included in the package!
How many days a week will you attend PT?
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I'm glad too although I'm still pretty anxious before a clicking session. Grant you is only the second day.
Yes the nurse came twice yesterday.. and today and I believe for a while. It's a great service and I appreciated that highly. I would procrastinate if they didn't come.
The idea though is that on average people should be able to get the clicks by themselves in about a week or 2 and at that pint they'll stop coming everyday (or at all) and move on to repeat this type of assistance with other newer patients.
From what we spoke yesterday it really varies from person to person. As we read here, some people seem to have absolutely no problems clicking whilst some others find it harder.
At the moment I feel confident that I can go through a session, but not by myself yet. Hopefully that'll change.
Also, this morning (after the first 15 clicks yesterday) I woke up with proper "tightness" on the quads and glutes. Not pain like in the previous days, but tightness. I like this as it is a more bearable discomfort than the sharp pain I used to feel.
Again, fingers 🤞
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Quick update at the end of day 7 post op and second day of clicking.
Big achievement. I managed the evening clicks all by myself.
Nurse was with me in the hotel room, but I managed to click both legs by myself in about 5 minutes each. I know that this might change going forward but for the moment I wanna take it one day at a time, so...
I'm celebrating with a couple of beers tonight.
From Friday the "inflammation" week will begin where the regime of clicks will go up to 21 per day and when I'll be taking voltaren to fight it off. Hopefully it'll all go smoothly.
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Well done on getting the clicks alone! Have you been able to maintain that since Day 2?
I'm surprised you're having drinks already :P
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::)Yes, i managed to do them all.
I had a bit of an episode on day 3 at night where after the clicks I got a very swollen quad which was quite painful but with a bit of ice it sort of resolved itself. Although it is still a bit tight.
I am now on clicking day 5 and 10 days after op. I'm officially into the inflammation period so since yesterday I started taking voltaren and upped the number of clicks to 21 per day (11 in the morning and 10 at night).
Today is the very first day where I asked the nurse not to come for the clicks because I felt I could do them.
I did manage to do them this morning and I hope it'll be the same this evening. I'll see if I can manage to take a video of l how I do it. I use 2 different techniques for the pest and the right leg.
Anyway, I'll keep you posted if anything notable happens.
And last the session at PT are so useful. Yesterday I went there with my right leg tight and I got out feeling really good.
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::)Yes, i managed to do them all.
I had a bit of an episode on day 3 at night where after the clicks I got a very swollen quad which was quite painful but with a bit of ice it sort of resolved itself. Although it is still a bit tight.
I am now on clicking day 5 and 10 days after op. I'm officially into the inflammation period so since yesterday I started taking voltaren and upped the number of clicks to 21 per day (11 in the morning and 10 at night).
Today is the very first day where I asked the nurse not to come for the clicks because I felt I could do them.
I did manage to do them this morning and I hope it'll be the same this evening. I'll see if I can manage to take a video of l how I do it. I use 2 different techniques for the pest and the right leg.
Anyway, I'll keep you posted if anything notable happens.
And last the session at PT are so useful. Yesterday I went there with my right leg tight and I got out feeling really good.
Hi OzBoy,
I hope you're doing well!
As far as I understand, the G-Nail is a weight-bearing nail, so why do you need a walker? Where is the weight bearing here?
What is the difference between this method and Precice 2.2 for the process and the recovery?
Are you able to walk without any assistance?
Can you tell me how you feel if you try walking without assistance?
What is your method for conveying the day-to-day?
Are you satisfied with your choice of G-Nail?
Would you choose the G-Nail or Precice 2.2 if I could take you back in time?
Please excuse the number of questions; I'm really interested!
My sincere thanks go out to you for your assistance.
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Hi Infinite,
No problems at all. You asked lots of good questions that also I didn't understand before taking the surgery.
I think there's a number of videos online about gnail and stryde that try to portray the picture of patients "walking" unaided from day 0.
That is not the way it is. Or at least it wasn't for me.
Specifically, the G-nail is definitely weight bearing. I have the 11mm one (the small one) implanted and that can withstand up to 75 Kg per leg when fully extended (at it's weakest). I am 62Kgs bodyweight so... Yeah it is fully weight bearing.
What is NOT fully weight bearing (not even partially or even just a little bit) are my leg muscles after the surgery.
What I didn't realise before the surgery is that your legs are pretty much immobile (or very close to) after you wake up from Anesthesia.
And from what I have heard from other patients and from the nurses (I'm still at 11 days post surgery), it takes around 3 weeks for enough strength and flex to come back to your legs and allow them to "step" properly and somewhat safely. (And for the swelling to go down).
So, the only thing I was able to do at day 0 or day 1 after surgery was to hold my legs straight.
(Even today at day 11 post op, even though now I can help stand up by pushing a little bit of weight through my legs, there is no way I would be able to hold my body weight if I flex the knee by more than 15 or 20degrees... Meaning from fully extended, if I bend them little bit, I would collapse right away).
With a device like the Walker, you can "hop" with both legs straight and move around like that. Easily? Well, it depends on your upper body strength. I find it easy, but slow. Other patient (especially females who don't hold much strength with their arms, find it harder).
I do not understand even now how people (if any), manage to use crutches from day 1. I wouldn't be able to. Not because the G-nail, but because crutches require you to do steps, do a little knee bending, and have balance. I had NONE of those during the first days.
Was that a problem? Not really for me because I even had less general energy after surgery so once I did 5 or 6 trips to the toilette, get out of the room to say hello to other people and a few back and forth within the room, i was pretty much exhausted.
Said that though, I was independent and mobile from day 1. Yes with the Walker (and wheelchair for longer distances) but I was.
Precise patients do not get to this level of mobility until their consolidation period.
Then, from what I understood from the doctor and nurses, at week 3 post op, I should have regained enough strength and control of my legs that we can safely re introduce steps and therefore walking with crutches.
I honestly feel I could do it even now, and in fact I do take little steps to maneuver around the room and also tried the crutches myself, but I'll be patient.
I can also tell you that, in the last few days l, I've gone to PT by myself (no nurse or assistance at all). So, with the Walker I went downstairs, hopped in and out of a taxi, reached the PT place and walked in myself.
Once in there, I could independently move in and out of the various stations without any assistance at all, whilst my friends with precice they all need to be either lifted into place or they can just stand still and stationary until someone bring them a wheelchair.
For them (especially for the bigger dudes) this will be the case for the next 3 or 4 months. Let that sink in. Wheelchair bound for that much time with the risk of bending the nail at each "missteps" you take.. I wouldn't be able to do that. Kudos to the ones that go through it, but also think about the consequences to your muscles and time to recovery.
Again, in this regard, yesterday afternoon I grabbed the Walker and went to the gym, did a good one hour between cycling and weights and felt really good. All by myself, indipendent. I chatted with people and felt good overall. And it'll hopefully go downhill from here.
And so, with the G-nail, in another 10 days or so, I should reach the next milestone which is making steps and using crutches and at that point life goes almost back to normal .... will start visiting Athens, will plan trips to the Greek islands and more.
So, is G-nail all good and great?NO, hell no. I hate the clicking. The thought of having to do this twice a day makes me cringe. Why?
Because the process and the movement required is awful.
In details, it doesn't hurt. The clicks don't hurt (unless you consolidate prematurely), but the process of having to warm up on the bike, stretch, find your position each leg, find the "first" click and repeat twice a day for months is tiring.
What makes it so (especially now) is that I am also sore on top of that... My legs are sore. Every day I do something more than usual, a little more exercise or movement in general, I get sore and twisting your leg while sore isn't the most pleasurable sensation. Not painful again, but definitely annoying.
In conclusion, me personally Im happy with the G-nail so far and would never go precice and be wheelchair bound for months. Hopefully some company brings back some sort of Stryde derivative in the future so to remove the clicking aspect from the nail and that would be bingo.
Feel free to DM me of you want. We might do a video call or something along those lines to show you how it is.
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Hi Infinite,
No problems at all. You asked lots of good questions that also I didn't understand before taking the surgery.
I think there's a number of videos online about gnail and stryde that try to portray the picture of patients "walking" unaided from day 0.
That is not the way it is. Or at least it wasn't for me.
Specifically, the G-nail is definitely weight bearing. I have the 11mm one (the small one) implanted and that can withstand up to 75 Kg per leg when fully extended (at it's weakest). I am 62Kgs bodyweight so... Yeah it is fully weight bearing.
What is NOT fully weight bearing (not even partially or even just a little bit) are my leg muscles after the surgery.
What I didn't realise before the surgery is that your legs are pretty much immobile (or very close to) after you wake up from Anesthesia.
And from what I have heard from other patients and from the nurses (I'm still at 11 days post surgery), it takes around 3 weeks for enough strength and flex to come back to your legs and allow them to "step" properly and somewhat safely. (And for the swelling to go down).
So, the only thing I was able to do at day 0 or day 1 after surgery was to hold my legs straight.
(Even today at day 11 post op, even though now I can help stand up by pushing a little bit of weight through my legs, there is no way I would be able to hold my body weight if I flex the knee by more than 15 or 20degrees... Meaning from fully extended, if I bend them little bit, I would collapse right away).
With a device like the Walker, you can "hop" with both legs straight and move around like that. Easily? Well, it depends on your upper body strength. I find it easy, but slow. Other patient (especially females who don't hold much strength with their arms, find it harder).
I do not understand even now how people (if any), manage to use crutches from day 1. I wouldn't be able to. Not because the G-nail, but because crutches require you to do steps, do a little knee bending, and have balance. I had NONE of those during the first days.
Was that a problem? Not really for me because I even had less general energy after surgery so once I did 5 or 6 trips to the toilette, get out of the room to say hello to other people and a few back and forth within the room, i was pretty much exhausted.
Said that though, I was independent and mobile from day 1. Yes with the Walker (and wheelchair for longer distances) but I was.
Precise patients do not get to this level of mobility until their consolidation period.
Then, from what I understood from the doctor and nurses, at week 3 post op, I should have regained enough strength and control of my legs that we can safely re introduce steps and therefore walking with crutches.
I honestly feel I could do it even now, and in fact I do take little steps to maneuver around the room and also tried the crutches myself, but I'll be patient.
I can also tell you that, in the last few days l, I've gone to PT by myself (no nurse or assistance at all). So, with the Walker I went downstairs, hopped in and out of a taxi, reached the PT place and walked in myself.
Once in there, I could independently move in and out of the various stations without any assistance at all, whilst my friends with precice they all need to be either lifted into place or they can just stand still and stationary until someone bring them a wheelchair.
For them (especially for the bigger dudes) this will be the case for the next 3 or 4 months. Let that sink in. Wheelchair bound for that much time with the risk of bending the nail at each "missteps" you take.. I wouldn't be able to do that. Kudos to the ones that go through it, but also think about the consequences to your muscles and time to recovery.
Again, in this regard, yesterday afternoon I grabbed the Walker and went to the gym, did a good one hour between cycling and weights and felt really good. All by myself, indipendent. I chatted with people and felt good overall. And it'll hopefully go downhill from here.
And so, with the G-nail, in another 10 days or so, I should reach the next milestone which is making steps and using crutches and at that point life goes almost back to normal .... will start visiting Athens, will plan trips to the Greek islands and more.
So, is G-nail all good and great?NO, hell no. I hate the clicking. The thought of having to do this twice a day makes me cringe. Why?
Because the process and the movement required is awful.
In details, it doesn't hurt. The clicks don't hurt (unless you consolidate prematurely), but the process of having to warm up on the bike, stretch, find your position each leg, find the "first" click and repeat twice a day for months is tiring.
What makes it so (especially now) is that I am also sore on top of that... My legs are sore. Every day I do something more than usual, a little more exercise or movement in general, I get sore and twisting your leg while sore isn't the most pleasurable sensation. Not painful again, but definitely annoying.
In conclusion, me personally Im happy with the G-nail so far and would never go precice and be wheelchair bound for months. Hopefully some company brings back some sort of Stryde derivative in the future so to remove the clicking aspect from the nail and that would be bingo.
Feel free to DM me of you want. We might do a video call or something along those lines to show you how it is.
Hi OzBoy,
Thank you very much for your detailed response.
My heartfelt thanks go out to you.
I've sent you a private message.
Stay strong!
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Hey OzBoy39, how is your progress going?
Do you go out to do groceries or get them delivered? Also, do you take taxi to the PT place each day? How much does it cost each way?
Thanks again!
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Hi Thankscience,
Progress is great I believe. I should have reached around 21 or 22m. Next Monday it will be my first X-ray after the surgery and first follow up with the Doc.
I get groceries delivered through the app Wolt and yes I do take taxis to and from PT.
From Novotel it's about 7 or 8 euro to go and another 7 or 8 to come back. So it's about 15 Euro per day in taxi fees.
From the Montana and Hyatt I heard it is about double so about 30 euro.
In this regard, yesterday with the nurse we spoke with Novotel and I believe they got a very good deal with them so Giotikas will be most likely recommending Novotel too as an option.
I'll upload a few posts now with videos of me clicking
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CLICKS
Clicking is getting easier, but for the ones who have not yet done the surgery, please listen
The first day of clicking sucks. Watch my videos below.
That twisting of the leg seems easy and if you try it at home you'll find that you can reach those angles without problems.
However, now you will do it with broken legs. That makes it painful. What type of pain? Well, if you try to move fast is like a stabbing pain that grows very fast and last one or two seconds.
How I managed to do it? SLOWLY.
The first day it took me 1 hour plus to finish the clicks. 25 minutes just to do the first on each leg.
As I started twisting my legs the pain grew very high and very fast to the point of me having to stop. But that pain resembled to me the same pain you feel when you're stretching deeply muscles like the quad or hamstring. So I figured, maybe if I hold my legs in a position of mild to intense air for a few seconds, then the pain may subside and the leg might get used to it. YES, that wad the trick. So at the beginning (even today) I start tisting the leg super slowly until I feel a bit ofndiscomfort and pai (not too much) and I gold it there for 5 to 10 seconds. Then I rest. Put the leg down and wait half a minute. Then I go again and this time I'll go further. Until you reach a point where it clicks and then it's done.
Take your time, and don't stress. The key to this movement is to have the leg completely relaxed. If you tense up (and you will for sure at the beginning, your legs will resist the torsion and make itnimpossible to click) . You habe to consciously relax your leg, know that you're gonna feel a little pain ytbthat it's just literally a few seconds.
Anyway, enough with me ranting.
How I do it practically ? I've experimented with 2 techniques
CONVENTIONAL
2 HANDS
See next post
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CONVENTIONAL
this is the technique that the doctor recommended and that I tried when I was in hospital at day 0, day1 and 2.
I can only manage to use on my left leg. Can't click the right leg with this technique. It is very convenient compared to the one I use now because tou don't have to hold your leg with your arm. You just lay in bed, watching TV. And when you get the right angle, clicks are very easy
See videos below
https://streamable.com/zykwe8
(And let me know if the lin doesn't work please)
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2 HANDS TWISTING
This technique is the one I prefer now because the conventional sometimes is hard to find the angle and I end up twisting and twisting my leg without finding the click and that puts a lot of strain and fatigue to my muscle.
So, wit this technique, as you can see from videos below, you use one hand on your knee to make it pivot and the other one on the calf/shin to pull the leg outwards.
If you do it slowly is really almost painless.
See videos below
LEFT LEG
https://streamable.com/z4xgzo
RIGHT LEG
https://streamable.com/l4ys7j
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2 HANDS TWISTING
This technique is the one I prefer now because the conventional sometimes is hard to find the angle and I end up twisting and twisting my leg without finding the click and that puts a lot of strain and fatigue to my muscle.
So, wit this technique, as you can see from videos below, you use one hand on your knee to make it pivot and the other one on the calf/shin to pull the leg outwards.
If you do it slowly is really almost painless.
See videos below
LEFT LEG
https://streamable.com/z4xgzo
RIGHT LEG
https://streamable.com/l4ys7j
Looks like a good technique!
This seems like a game-changer in the LL field.
Revolution has begun!
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This method of clicking is exactly what I use too for my left leg but I can’t hold it in the air for too long so I need a band around my heel and then do the trick. It really is less painful because it needs less rotation.
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Anyone in the Montaza hotel? Aside from the economy supermarket store nearby, any other useful locations to know about? Might be an ATM around, anything else?
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I'm not at Montaza but first thing I suggest you to do is
Download the app Wolt. You can order pretty much everything there, from food to groceries to laundry to electronic gadgets and more.
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This method of clicking is exactly what I use too for my left leg but I can’t hold it in the air for too long so I need a band around my heel and then do the trick. It really is less painful because it needs less rotation.
Same for me but I actually use my arm to hold the leg up. And I wedge my arm above a pillow so I don't really have to use much force to hold it in there. I'm still trying to improve the position but so far I can manage to do 4 or 5 clicks in one go...then rest for 30 sec and then go again.
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Looks like a good technique!
This seems like a game-changer in the LL field.
Revolution has begun!
Haha nice. Yeah let's revolutionise the world.
Joking aside, yeah this technique works well so far, but as posted by RealLostSoul in the other message it could be improved. When the nurses were here to help they use to hold my leg up and then I twisted it. That allowed me to relax the leg even more and therefore reaching the click easier. It'd be col to have some sort of stool or box of the right height to rest your leg on and just twist it. Anyway... enough with daydreaming, off to some more clicking I go.
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Update at 20 days post-op (23mm distraction)
Yesterday I had my first x-ray and follow-up visit with Dr Giotikas
I can't yet upload the x-rays as they ve given those to me on a CD and ... Who has a cd player in his laptop these days? EU privacy laws are a bit outdated.
Anyway, the x-ray didn't show any particular problem. Nail is straight. Bone is starting to grow and the gap as of yesterday was at approximately 23mm.
We decided to lower the click rate from 15 to 12 clicks a day (0.8mm).
This is to reduce the stress on my legs and also reduce the duckass effect which i can already notice.
I'm upping my stretching routine and incorporating more complex movements now that my legs allow me to do them.
Specifically I'll be adding:
- Hip flexor stretches on the edge of the bed (really useful and ... Painful at the same time).
- Abductor stretching in the form of butterfly pose and also laying lateral extensions using the strap provided by PT.
- Hamstring stretch both standing and laying on the bed with the strap.
I feel this is gonna be the real battle in the months ahead. As the PT guy said, the secret to success is to always try to be a little ahead with stretching than your soft tissue requires.
And btw, at 23mm only, I already noticed the difference in height. Not much, but enough to give a boost of motivation. I can only imagine what it'd feel when I reach around 5cm and more.
Finger crossed as always and keep on strerching
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Update at 20 days post-op (23mm distraction)
Yesterday I had my first x-ray and follow-up visit with Dr Giotikas
I can't yet upload the x-rays as they ve given those to me on a CD and ... Who has a cd player in his laptop these days? EU privacy laws are a bit outdated.
Anyway, the x-ray didn't show any particular problem. Nail is straight. Bone is starting to grow and the gap as of yesterday was at approximately 23mm.
We decided to lower the click rate from 15 to 12 clicks a day (0.8mm).
This is to reduce the stress on my legs and also reduce the duckass effect which i can already notice.
I'm upping my stretching routine and incorporating more complex movements now that my legs allow me to do them.
Specifically I'll be adding:
- Hip flexor stretches on the edge of the bed (really useful and ... Painful at the same time).
- Abductor stretching in the form of butterfly pose and also laying lateral extensions using the strap provided by PT.
- Hamstring stretch both standing and laying on the bed with the strap.
I feel this is gonna be the real battle in the months ahead. As the PT guy said, the secret to success is to always try to be a little ahead with stretching than your soft tissue requires.
And btw, at 23mm only, I already noticed the difference in height. Not much, but enough to give a boost of motivation. I can only imagine what it'd feel when I reach around 5cm and more.
Finger crossed as always and keep on strerching
I'm proud of you, brother!
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hi, does giotikas allow going back to home country during lengthneing?
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He does, but only after 6 weeks post surgery
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He does, but only after 6 weeks post surgery
Why that period? to prevent clotting?
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Hey OzBoy39,
which drugs do you take for anticoagulant prophylaxis? What's the treatment regimen?
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Not only clotting but in general I believe he wants you to stay here for the period necessary to reduce risks of complications like yeah clotting, clicking, muscle contractures, bone healing... and also to allow you to make enough PT sessions to mitigate all the conditions that arise with the lengthening (duck ass, stiffness , contractures).
Before the surgery I was also asking and trying to understand if I could come home after just 2 or 3 weeks. Now that I'm into it fully, I wouldn't do it at all.
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Hey OzBoy39,
which drugs do you take for anticoagulant prophylaxis? What's the treatment regimen?
Xeralto pill once a day and I've been 3 weeks with the compression socks. I believe I'll be taking xeralto for the 1st month postop and then stop.
I've already taken the compression socks off.
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Thanks for the videos OzBoy39! Good to see your progress and that you're able to do the clicking completely independently with minimal pain. I'm sure these videos will be helpful for plenty of others using g-nail (or even Betz nail).
This is random but how many compression socks do they give you to wear? I imagine having only one pair would get rather smelly :D Also, do you have the option of asking Dr G to take xeralto for longer than one month (e.g. potentially for the whole lengthening period)?
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Hi Thankscience,
Hopefully they'll help someone. But for anybody who's doing this, please try to find what works best for you. Sometime it's just about slightly changing the angle of your quad or lower legs to make the clicking easy. Try, to not get discouraged if it doesn't work at first. But try and be concious of your body response and feeling. Adjust a little and try again, slowly. Don't push to the point of extreme pain. If you twisted 45 degrees and it didn't click yet... you're doing it wrong. You don't have to push harder. You gotta change the way you're doing it.
For the compression socks, I use to wash them every 2or 3 days. So one pair was ok. I'm sure if I had asked more they would give me right away.
Xeralto, I do t really wanna take it for longer than a month. Talking to the Doc he says that at that point, the risk of blood clotting (for G-Nail or other weight bearing patients) is extremely low, so there's no point in maintaining the same regime (and by doing so further damaging the liver).
It is a different thing for precice patients who cannot really move much other than the wheelchair. They will use xeralto throughout the lengthening if I understood correctly.
I'm already pretty mobile and active throughout the day, and I hope it'll only go up from here in terms of mobility.
He'll then give me xeralto again a few days prior and after my flight home together with the compression socks to wear during the flight.
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Any LL veterans wanna help me theory craft good technique for transfers?
Scooching forward in bed seems alot more difficult for me than scooching back.
To scooch back in bed, I can push with my triceps and lats
To scooch forward in bed, I sort of grip the bed and try to pull my way forward, sometimes resulting in the legs bumping into some misc blanket/pillow stuff which is a bit uncomfortable
The grabber has been a godsend
I'm gonna venture to the toilet some time this weekend by myself without the nurses and the biggest challenges seem to be transferring off of the bed and also transferring off of the toilet
The issue is that although I can use more upper body to help (muscles associated with using a dip), I sort of need to find the right amount of legs/quads to use because a dip using upper body strength alone really cannot fully lift the body for me
And there is a bit of this uncertainty when pushing with quads ("Am I pushing too hard? Am I hurting my legs? But I need some of my quads to lift myself off of bed onto the walker) and I am sort of in the midst of working this out
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Hi Thankscience,
Hopefully they'll help someone. But for anybody who's doing this, please try to find what works best for you. Sometime it's just about slightly changing the angle of your quad or lower legs to make the clicking easy. Try, to not get discouraged if it doesn't work at first. But try and be concious of your body response and feeling. Adjust a little and try again, slowly. Don't push to the point of extreme pain. If you twisted 45 degrees and it didn't click yet... you're doing it wrong. You don't have to push harder. You gotta change the way you're doing it.
For the compression socks, I use to wash them every 2or 3 days. So one pair was ok. I'm sure if I had asked more they would give me right away.
Xeralto, I do t really wanna take it for longer than a month. Talking to the Doc he says that at that point, the risk of blood clotting (for G-Nail or other weight bearing patients) is extremely low, so there's no point in maintaining the same regime (and by doing so further damaging the liver).
It is a different thing for precice patients who cannot really move much other than the wheelchair. They will use xeralto throughout the lengthening if I understood correctly.
I'm already pretty mobile and active throughout the day, and I hope it'll only go up from here in terms of mobility.
He'll then give me xeralto again a few days prior and after my flight home together with the compression socks to wear during the flight.
Thanks for the tip about Xarelto, I've also heard it has some adverse affects. Maybe I'll ask Evi/Bill/Dr Giotikas about this too
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Hey Ozboy39.
There was a guy who died due to a pulmonary embolism some months ago. Did your doctor mention something about this case? Didn't he take the Xarelto pill?
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Hey Ozboy39.
There was a guy who died due to a pulmonary embolism some months ago. Did your doctor mention something about this case? Didn't he take the Xarelto pill?
Hi Limbfan2020, I don't know at the moment.
I'm not sure if he was referring to this specific patient, but the day before the surgery during the pre-op consultation, we were talking about the various schedules and the pros vs cons of each medication.
He stressed the fact that Xeralto was among the most important medication among all because not taking it could significantly increase the risk of clots that lead to clots and therefore could induce a PE.
Together with that he alluded to some patients not really cooperating with the doctor and nurses in the way of basically not taking the meds (and not even informing them) which developed an embolism
I don't know if the two are related, I was just listening at the time, but I'll try to remember to ask next time I have a checkup with him. I'm curious too.
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Thanks for the tip about Xarelto, I've also heard it has some adverse affects. Maybe I'll ask Evi/Bill/Dr Giotikas about this too
Yeah, they all do. Especially if taken long term. Many of them are hard on your stomach/liver whereas some others (like the tramadol) being an opioid can create addiction.
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Yeah, they all do. Especially if taken long term. Many of them are hard on your stomach/liver whereas some others (like the tramadol) being an opioid can create addiction.
What are your thoughts on the best times of the day to sleep? My first physical therapy session is Monday in the afternoon and then the nearby Strip Club loud music near Montaza starts at night (not sure when?). Not exactly sure what my regular physical therapy schedule will be. But putting this all together, I think that means that the evening is actually the best time to sleep + get in random naps at other times like the morning, but what has worked out for you?
Right now, the music isn't so bad, I just hear the loud beat of the strip club music
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What are your thoughts on the best times of the day to sleep? My first physical therapy session is Monday in the afternoon and then the nearby Strip Club loud music near Montaza starts at night (not sure when?). Not exactly sure what my regular physical therapy schedule will be. But putting this all together, I think that means that the evening is actually the best time to sleep + get in random naps at other times like the morning, but what has worked out for you?
Right now, the music isn't so bad, I just hear the loud beat of the strip club music
Judging by the time we're writing these messages, I guess sleep is not our strong point at the moment. Lol
Just kidding. I am trying (hard) to have as long a sleep as I can at night AND I'm keeping my mornings free for naps.
I say that because I believe that you'll also be doing PT between 12 and 1pm and that can last up to 2 hours.
At the beginning I was napping in the afternoon but that made it really problematic to fall asleep at night.
So, to maximise my sleep and at the same time be somewhat efficient and have some sort of decent routine itry to do this.
I'm going to bed relatively early (9 to 10pm) and try to get at least 6 hours of combined sleep. As you can see... I'm awake now at 442am so my sleep is still...patchy.
Then I wake up at around 6am...
Catch up with emails, socials, friends and basically just... Slowly wake up.
Around 7am i do my clicks routine (I just want to get them done asap and I like the sunrise light in my room at that time. It makes me feel relaxed and that helps with my clicking routine).which involves a light warmup (all in bed), light stretching, light twisting of the leg and then....the clicks.
Then I Go down and have a huge breakfast either in the hotel or in a coffee shop nearby.
The rest of the morning I chill and stretch and often (especially when I don't get much sleep the night before) I squeeze in another nap which comes much easier than at night.
Then PT, lunch, work, chill, clicks, dinner and repeat.
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How many days a week are you going to the PT centre? And if your hotel has a gym have you been using that at all?
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We do 4 days per week (Mon, Tue, Thursday and Fri).
Yeah Novotel has a "little" gym that I've been using.
It has an elliptical, a treadmill, a static bike and a compound weight machine where you can do a bit of chest presses and flies, lats puldowns, biceps and triceps, leg extensions.
They don't have benches or dumbbells unfortunately.
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We do 4 days per week (Mon, Tue, Thursday and Fri).
Yeah Novotel has a "little" gym that I've been using.
It has an elliptical, a treadmill, a static bike and a compound weight machine where you can do a bit of chest presses and flies, lats puldowns, biceps and triceps, leg extensions.
They don't have benches or dumbbells unfortunately.
Interesting. Do you find you have energy to do upper body workouts given how much energy and time is required for your legs? Also, I noticed some people seem to have static bikes in their rooms. Is this provided by Dr G's team?
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Yes, as the days go by I am regaining normal energy levels and so I feel I can do some workouts. Not everyday still, but 3 or 4 times per week.
Yes I do have the bycicle provided by Dr G. He also provided the Walker, wheelchair and crutches. And the PT guys have me a strap and a nice manual with the summary of all stretches to do during lengthening.
Fyi... Many stretches are absolutely a no no given that you could damage the nail/screws
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Hi Limbfan2020, I don't know at the moment.
I'm not sure if he was referring to this specific patient, but the day before the surgery during the pre-op consultation, we were talking about the various schedules and the pros vs cons of each medication.
He stressed the fact that Xeralto was among the most important medication among all because not taking it could significantly increase the risk of clots that lead to clots and therefore could induce a PE.
Together with that he alluded to some patients not really cooperating with the doctor and nurses in the way of basically not taking the meds (and not even informing them) which developed an embolism
I don't know if the two are related, I was just listening at the time, but I'll try to remember to ask next time I have a checkup with him. I'm curious too.
Yes, please ask him about this particular case! It's very interesting for the LL community to know which behaviour led to his death.
Thank you!
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Yes, as the days go by I am regaining normal energy levels and so I feel I can do some workouts. Not everyday still, but 3 or 4 times per week.
Yes I do have the bycicle provided by Dr G. He also provided the Walker, wheelchair and crutches. And the PT guys have me a strap and a nice manual with the summary of all stretches to do during lengthening.
Fyi... Many stretches are absolutely a no no given that you could damage the nail/screws
Oh damn, didn't think of this. So when I get the manual of stretches, I should ask bill/evi which of the stretches in the manual are too dangerous?
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Yes, as the days go by I am regaining normal energy levels and so I feel I can do some workouts. Not everyday still, but 3 or 4 times per week.
Yes I do have the bycicle provided by Dr G. He also provided the Walker, wheelchair and crutches. And the PT guys have me a strap and a nice manual with the summary of all stretches to do during lengthening.
Fyi... Many stretches are absolutely a no no given that you could damage the nail/screws
I'm finding the hamstring stretch difficult because my quads/hip flexors are sore all the time and they get compressed during the hamstring stretch. Any tips for this?
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Hey Speeddialer
I'm not too sure to be honest. If I understand correctly, you're trying to pull your knee to your chest while lying in bed right?
If so, you could try a different variation that still targets the hamstrings.
Basically just extend your legs completely straight on the bed and try to bend your upper body forward (maybe use a towel around the bed frame to help pull your upper body towards your feet). Try not to arch your back but instead keeping it straight and ... Gently Pull until you feel a bit of discomfort to your hammies.
This is probably gonna be very hard to do at the stage you're at but it's the only thing I can think of right now.
Or simply don't stress too much about it and wait for PT on monday. They'll be able to help out better than myself.
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Hey Speeddialer
I'm not too sure to be honest. If I understand correctly, you're trying to pull your knee to your chest while lying in bed right?
If so, you could try a different variation that still targets the hamstrings.
Basically just extend your legs completely straight on the bed and try to bend your upper body forward (maybe use a towel around the bed frame to help pull your upper body towards your feet). Try not to arch your back but instead keeping it straight and ... Gently Pull until you feel a bit of discomfort to your hammies.
This is probably gonna be very hard to do at the stage you're at but it's the only thing I can think of right now.
Or simply don't stress too much about it and wait for PT on monday. They'll be able to help out better than myself.
Thanks!!!!
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Hey Speeddialer
I'm not too sure to be honest. If I understand correctly, you're trying to pull your knee to your chest while lying in bed right?
If so, you could try a different variation that still targets the hamstrings.
Basically just extend your legs completely straight on the bed and try to bend your upper body forward (maybe use a towel around the bed frame to help pull your upper body towards your feet). Try not to arch your back but instead keeping it straight and ... Gently Pull until you feel a bit of discomfort to your hammies.
This is probably gonna be very hard to do at the stage you're at but it's the only thing I can think of right now.
Or simply don't stress too much about it and wait for PT on monday. They'll be able to help out better than myself.
Ya I'm finding myself first trying to build up to the stretches using smaller versions of the stretches assisting w/ pillows (pillow under knee to help me stretch quad, pillow under tibia to help stretch hamstring, then leaning forward to stretch the hamstring a bit more) and then finally building up to the stretches prescribed, not sure if I should be doing something else.
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Did you ever get a slight burning sensation at some of your wound sites during the stretches? When this happens, I am not sure whether to ignore that very slight burning sensation at the wounds. I imagine it might result in very slight bleeding but on the other hand it feels like if I don't do the stretch I'll just lose range of motion
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Did you ever get a slight burning sensation at some of your wound sites during the stretches? When this happens, I am not sure whether to ignore that very slight burning sensation at the wounds. I imagine it might result in very slight bleeding but on the other hand it feels like if I don't do the stretch I'll just lose range of motion
Oh yeah... Not even slight, it felt like my skin was about to tear (which actually was). It happened to me at PT when doing the hamstring and hip flexor stretches (basically when they lift your leg up when you're laying on the bed and when they stretch it down for the hip flexors).
The first few days I stopped when I felt that because honestly it was too painful to push through it. Then it started getting better and better and after a week or so it disappeared.
But I have pains like this that come and go in different places pretty much everyday. It's a bloody mental battle against and with your body.
And ill venture myself predicting what the PT guys will tell you when you explain this to them.... "It's normal, everybody have these pains" ;D.
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Oh yeah... Not even slight, it felt like my skin was about to tear (which actually was). It happened to me at PT when doing the hamstring and hip flexor stretches (basically when they lift your leg up when you're laying on the bed and when they stretch it down for the hip flexors).
Do the nurses/PT guys generally recommend continuing the stretch even in these situations? Unsure if it results in bleeding and if that's OK
I know you said they said its normal, but I just wonder if when I feel burning at the wound sites what to do if anything
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Do the nurses/PT guys generally recommend continuing the stretch even in these situations? Unsure if it results in bleeding and if that's OK
I know you said they said its normal, but I just wonder if when I feel burning at the wound sites what to do if anything
I definitely stopped the first maybe 3 or 4 days. Then at some point I felt like pushing through it and it subsided. Bu4 definitely stop thst specific stretch when you feel that and move onto another one
I'm sure you'll get the same advice (as I did before) from both nurses and PT people.
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I definitely stopped the first maybe 3 or 4 days. Then at some point I felt like pushing through it and it subsided. Bu4 definitely stop thst specific stretch when you feel that and move onto another one
I'm sure you'll get the same advice (as I did before) from both nurses and PT people.
Thanks!!!!
My tight quads are still worrying me alot (it is so low range of motion couldn't do the cycling), current plan is to do alot of constant light quad stretching assisted with pillows to hold them in a slightly stretched position
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Yeah thar sounds quite rough.
Do you mind if I ask, did you actually do stretching before the surgery?
I mean serious stretching like the one we do at PT? I'm just curious to understand correlations between some of the difficulties that somebody have to potential causes.
I know with myself I haven't done much on my abductors before coming here and guess what? That's where it's killing me.
But still, it'll get better (not painless) but I'm sure by this time next week you'll be in a much better shape
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Yeah thar sounds quite rough.
Do you mind if I ask, did you actually do stretching before the surgery?
I mean serious stretching like the one we do at PT? I'm just curious to understand correlations between some of the difficulties that somebody have to potential causes.
I know with myself I haven't done much on my abductors before coming here and guess what? That's where it's killing me.
But still, it'll get better (not painless) but I'm sure by this time next week you'll be in a much better shape
Before the surgery I did the stretches in the handout twice a week
This morning I'm noticing that my quads are much less stiff but still stiff. Its also alot easier to stand up now today but I get a burning sensation in the quads while I am standing up.
I'm noticing that sitting at the edge of the bed w/ legs hanging off feels like a mild quad stretch and I can lay my back against the bed-> feels like slightly more of a quad stretch. Did some quad stretches this way + practice transferring from bed to walker twice this morning
But overall today feels much better, my legs feel stronger than the past few days and I can move them much more easily in the bed. There is less of that "thigh feels like 1000 pounds feeling" but still some
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Yeah man, so good to hear that. It'll get better and better from here.
I do the same stretch now on the side of the bed for the quads. I like it and it'll be very useful when you start feeling the duckass sensation.
I do that now everytime when.ive been laying in bed for a while before standing up. It helps a lot to just release the hip flexors and quads to stand properly.
Anyway, see you later at PT
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Update at T28 post-op and 3cm lengthening
The journey is getting tough, but I already see a (small) difference in my height especially when I wear the shoes thst essentially give me another inch or so. The feeling is already amazing and I can't wait to get to my goal...it's gonna be be incredible.
The easiest part of ALL, as strange as it sounds, is the clicking. I think the position I showed in the videos from a few posts back is working great for me. I don't feel pain, stress or anything else really. Time to click is about 20 seconds each leg. Preparation with light warm-up and stretching in the bed it probably takes 10 minutes at most.
I'm doing 12 clicks per day since my first consultation with the doctor. Thst maps to a 0.8mm per day. At this rate I will reach 8cm by the end of November and if I want to push further It'll probably go all the way to Christmas. Which sounds silly but I could decide to stop on the 25th as my biggest Christmas present ever.
Then, another good point is the fact that last week I started using the crutches and that made a world of difference in the day to day activities. With crutches you feel almost normal.
Also, having marked the wall with my previous height was a good thought. I can see the difference already and that is a HUUGE motivator.
What is not going very well is the pain I feel during the day and during the night. Since last week I developed quite a strong nerve pain. The sciatic nerve of my right leg hurts badly throughout the back of my leg but mostly behind my knee.
On top of that, as I started walking with crutches and using the anti gravity treadmill, my knees took a real beating and in the last 2 nights, in the hotel, I reverted to using the wheelchair and crutches because I couldn't literally stand for more than a couple of minutes.
The nerve pain is really strong, but fortunately it doesn't happen randomly, so I now exactly what movements I need to avoid. Unfortunately these movements are the ones you need to walk properly. PT said not to worry about it, because we're gonna work on that. And I also upped my intake of "Lyrica" medication against nerve pain. It does work and although it doesn't eliminate it, it makes it reduces the intensity.
The Bone pain in my knees grows together with the time I try to walk. So unfortunately it feels it's kinda hindering my training/recovery.
Muscles are normally getting tighter but the guys and girls at PT are doing an amazing job and I feel that I'm staying quite stable and relatively ok with my mobility. I obviously do steetching everyday by myself too, but nothing I do alone is as good as what I get at PT.
At night then, this pain becomes a sort of restlessness and my sleep is very fragmented. I probably am able to get around d 5 or 6 shours overall but scattered in 3 or 4 sleeps.
In between these I'm reading a lot of older diaries that I hadn't read before and I found those to be very relatable to my experience and definitely found some useful information about pain management.
All these events above are taking a toll on my energy levels, mood and overall productivity during the day. I'm not doing much work at all and also I'm skipping the gym which i dont like. I'll try to push myself to be more disciplined.
Other than this, I'm loving the weather here in Athens and sunbathing it's a real healer. I think Greece in summer is an amazing place to do the lengthening.
That's pretty much it for the moment. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the clicks stay as they are now and that the nerve pain subside.
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Congrats on reaching the 3cm mark! Did Dr. G advise you to only lengthen 0.8mm per day or is that a personal choice?
Also, have you been out exploring in the city much or are you still mostly confined to your hotel?
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Thanks!
He advised me to go down to 0.8 after doing the check-up.
Unfortunately no, I haven't been able to. I was really planning to do that when I started using the crutches but then the nerve and knee pain kicked in and that is making it really hard to walk at all.
I hope it's just temporary . If that's gone, walking with crutches is a breeze.
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Did he give a reason for going down to 0.8mm (e.g. was bone healing slower than expected)?
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Yeah that was exactly it. Bone healing was slower than expected and I was tighter than expected too
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Update at T28 post-op and 3cm lengthening
The journey is getting tough, but I already see a (small) difference in my height especially when I wear the shoes thst essentially give me another inch or so. The feeling is already amazing and I can't wait to get to my goal...it's gonna be be incredible.
The easiest part of ALL, as strange as it sounds, is the clicking. I think the position I showed in the videos from a few posts back is working great for me. I don't feel pain, stress or anything else really. Time to click is about 20 seconds each leg. Preparation with light warm-up and stretching in the bed it probably takes 10 minutes at most.
I'm doing 12 clicks per day since my first consultation with the doctor. Thst maps to a 0.8mm per day. At this rate I will reach 8cm by the end of November and if I want to push further It'll probably go all the way to Christmas. Which sounds silly but I could decide to stop on the 25th as my biggest Christmas present ever.
Then, another good point is the fact that last week I started using the crutches and that made a world of difference in the day to day activities. With crutches you feel almost normal.
Also, having marked the wall with my previous height was a good thought. I can see the difference already and that is a HUUGE motivator.
What is not going very well is the pain I feel during the day and during the night. Since last week I developed quite a strong nerve pain. The sciatic nerve of my right leg hurts badly throughout the back of my leg but mostly behind my knee.
On top of that, as I started walking with crutches and using the anti gravity treadmill, my knees took a real beating and in the last 2 nights, in the hotel, I reverted to using the wheelchair and crutches because I couldn't literally stand for more than a couple of minutes.
The nerve pain is really strong, but fortunately it doesn't happen randomly, so I now exactly what movements I need to avoid. Unfortunately these movements are the ones you need to walk properly. PT said not to worry about it, because we're gonna work on that. And I also upped my intake of "Lyrica" medication against nerve pain. It does work and although it doesn't eliminate it, it makes it reduces the intensity.
The Bone pain in my knees grows together with the time I try to walk. So unfortunately it feels it's kinda hindering my training/recovery.
Muscles are normally getting tighter but the guys and girls at PT are doing an amazing job and I feel that I'm staying quite stable and relatively ok with my mobility. I obviously do steetching everyday by myself too, but nothing I do alone is as good as what I get at PT.
At night then, this pain becomes a sort of restlessness and my sleep is very fragmented. I probably am able to get around d 5 or 6 shours overall but scattered in 3 or 4 sleeps.
In between these I'm reading a lot of older diaries that I hadn't read before and I found those to be very relatable to my experience and definitely found some useful information about pain management.
All these events above are taking a toll on my energy levels, mood and overall productivity during the day. I'm not doing much work at all and also I'm skipping the gym which i dont like. I'll try to push myself to be more disciplined.
Other than this, I'm loving the weather here in Athens and sunbathing it's a real healer. I think Greece in summer is an amazing place to do the lengthening.
That's pretty much it for the moment. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the clicks stay as they are now and that the nerve pain subside.
Great post!
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Yeah that was exactly it. Bone healing was slower than expected and I was tighter than expected too
Hey Ozboy, Which stretches from the booklet the physical therapy center gave us have you found are too dangerous for us to do? I vaguely remember you mentioned that some of the stretches are not good for our case (femur lengthening)
Thanks
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I wasn't referring to the booklet when I said that. I was referring to he standard stretches that various trainers recommend to stretch quads, hip flexors and other muscles.
Looking at the booklet, I would only be wary of the stretch at the bottom of page 3 where it looks as if you could apply a bending momentum to the quad. Said that though, check with the guys there at PT. They are definitely best placed to advise on the do's and don'ts at.this stage
Cheers
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I just had my hour long consultation with Dr G and he mentioned they have a brand new SUV to take patients to and from PT appointments at a competitive rate. Have you started using this?
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Not yet but I heard it in the last 2 weeks. The nurses had told me about it. Not sure when it'll be out into service though.
We'll see. That's definitely a good financial incentive considered that we have PT 4 days a week.
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I just had my hour long consultation with Dr G and he mentioned they have a brand new SUV to take patients to and from PT appointments at a competitive rate. Have you started using this?
Yeah I heard a nurse mention this. Wonder how this work though since we go to PT at somewhat different times staggered throughout the afternoon, maybe it would just drive back and forth? Or we all go early? Not sure how this is gonna work
When are you coming to Athens Thankscience? I'll probably leave some time in early December
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Think it is good to get sweat pants? Didn't occur to me, I did get some thin running pants but they're not soft or warm
It never occurred to me given how warm its been so far but I'm thinking maybe a very warm, loose pair of sweatpants could end up being useful this fall in Athens
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Yeah definitely. I got a few with me and they'll come in handy these next few days if the weather keeps cooling down.
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Yeah I heard a nurse mention this. Wonder how this work though since we go to PT at somewhat different times staggered throughout the afternoon, maybe it would just drive back and forth? Or we all go early? Not sure how this is gonna work
When are you coming to Athens Thankscience? I'll probably leave some time in early December
I have my surgery booked for February so looks like we'll miss each other :'( I still need to tie up some loose ends with work etc.
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Does Giotikas order blood thinners for the whole lenghtening period?
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He said he prescribes it for the full lengthening period only if you're using a non weight-bearing nail. If you have the g-nail then he prescribes it for 28 days, and also for your flight home.
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How are things going for you now OzBoy39?
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Hi Thankscience,
All is "relatively" good.
Yesterday had my second appointment with the Doc. I wanted to ask/check a few things.
1- Condition of the nails.
2- Nerve pain
3- Shin numbness
4- Bone regeneration.
5- Overall condition
So, results are positive throughout the spectrum
1- Nail and screws are super straight and we'll fixed. I was a bit bit worried as in the last 2 weeks I kinda pushed it hard up and down the stairs, on rough terrain (beach) and also started pushing my legs from a bent position. Nothing wrong there.
Also distraction length kinda match the calculation of the clicks with one leg at 33 and the other at 32mm. That's not a problem as there's tolerance of +/-1mm in the x-ray images so he said we're gonna even veruthing out at the end.
2- this is actually disappearing (I was given excercises and stretches for thw sciatic nerve by PT and now it's almost gone... No problem there anymore.
3- shin numbnees. He reviewed my legs in terms of sensation, feeling and other aspects and told me not to worry of things like blood clots. There's no major vein down the front of the lower.leg.
We decided to stay at 12clocks per day because that doesn't give me much tightness of muscles and I'm not in a rush either.
4- Bone regeneration is good. In my left leg I can clearly see the bone formation in all 4 segments. My right leg is a little slower. There's 3 good sections and 1 with less regeneration but nothing to be concerned of.
Giotikas asked me to start increasing my walking time and push myself a bit harder to stimulate the bone more.
5- flexibility of both legs is ok. We noticed the duckass but he told me that that'll stay until we stop distracting. PT is taking care of it together with myself doing hip flexor stretches. For the rest I still have my right quad a bit tighter so he'll give instruction to PT to work on that more.
Other notable thongs in the last two weeks.
I am feeling strength coming back to my legs. What I mean is that until now, it was almost impossible to hold any weight on them if I bent them more than...say 10 degrees. As of this morning I almost stood up from the toilet using my legs. I was so happy to feel that. It's such a life changer. And it gave me a good boat in my head.
Clicking has become super easy (I'm touching wood in the meantime).
It takes me about 20 second per leg to do them all.
Even just at 3.3mm I notice the difference talking with hotel staff (Im wearing a pair of Homs Bondi 8 shoes which are very plushy and comfy... But also a 3 to 4cm sole so essentially they make me 171 or 172cm ). I kid you not. I already feel ecstatic when I notice I'm at a quasi normal height. , And I still have about 5 or 6 cm to go.
I met with another new patient who already had his femur done and now going for Tibias.
He looks so good with the longer legs. I was really focused on his legs and when he walks or run (he showed me how he could sprint on a treadmill at full speed and he was great), and the longer legs makes him look even taller than he is and don't look weird at all. So I'm really relieved in terms of proportions and all that.
I'm taking some sleeping pill and I think it's helping . I managed to have one super amazing solid sleep last night.
The only bad point I have now is the knee pain that arise after walking for a bit. That's the limiting factor for my walking. When that kicks in... I'm done. But it goes away after a good night sleep so I hope it's just a matter of training my legs and getting over it.
Other things I can comment on is about Novotel. I really like it. I've been there for a month and fell in love with many hotel staff. So helpful and nice. They help me and another patient (on her wheel chair with precice) in all we need. Such good people.
One last point is on the x-rays. I apologise to all but they give us a CD with the x-rays and I don't have access to a laptop or computer with CD player (I mean...who does today.. ???)
I'll try and get them read by someone but I don't wanna bother the nurses as they're getting sooo busy with all new patients.
That's pretty much it. Big finger crossed that the clicks stay as is.
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Sent you a pm
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Hi Thankscience,
All is "relatively" good.
Yesterday had my second appointment with the Doc. I wanted to ask/check a few things.
1- Condition of the nails.
2- Nerve pain
3- Shin numbness
4- Bone regeneration.
5- Overall condition
So, results are positive throughout the spectrum
1- Nail and screws are super straight and we'll fixed. I was a bit bit worried as in the last 2 weeks I kinda pushed it hard up and down the stairs, on rough terrain (beach) and also started pushing my legs from a bent position. Nothing wrong there.
Also distraction length kinda match the calculation of the clicks with one leg at 33 and the other at 32mm. That's not a problem as there's tolerance of +/-1mm in the x-ray images so he said we're gonna even veruthing out at the end.
2- this is actually disappearing (I was given excercises and stretches for thw sciatic nerve by PT and now it's almost gone... No problem there anymore.
3- shin numbnees. He reviewed my legs in terms of sensation, feeling and other aspects and told me not to worry of things like blood clots. There's no major vein down the front of the lower.leg.
We decided to stay at 12clocks per day because that doesn't give me much tightness of muscles and I'm not in a rush either.
4- Bone regeneration is good. In my left leg I can clearly see the bone formation in all 4 segments. My right leg is a little slower. There's 3 good sections and 1 with less regeneration but nothing to be concerned of.
Giotikas asked me to start increasing my walking time and push myself a bit harder to stimulate the bone more.
5- flexibility of both legs is ok. We noticed the duckass but he told me that that'll stay until we stop distracting. PT is taking care of it together with myself doing hip flexor stretches. For the rest I still have my right quad a bit tighter so he'll give instruction to PT to work on that more.
Other notable thongs in the last two weeks.
I am feeling strength coming back to my legs. What I mean is that until now, it was almost impossible to hold any weight on them if I bent them more than...say 10 degrees. As of this morning I almost stood up from the toilet using my legs. I was so happy to feel that. It's such a life changer. And it gave me a good boat in my head.
Clicking has become super easy (I'm touching wood in the meantime).
It takes me about 20 second per leg to do them all.
Even just at 3.3mm I notice the difference talking with hotel staff (Im wearing a pair of Homs Bondi 8 shoes which are very plushy and comfy... But also a 3 to 4cm sole so essentially they make me 171 or 172cm ). I kid you not. I already feel ecstatic when I notice I'm at a quasi normal height. , And I still have about 5 or 6 cm to go.
I met with another new patient who already had his femur done and now going for Tibias.
He looks so good with the longer legs. I was really focused on his legs and when he walks or run (he showed me how he could sprint on a treadmill at full speed and he was great), and the longer legs makes him look even taller than he is and don't look weird at all. So I'm really relieved in terms of proportions and all that.
I'm taking some sleeping pill and I think it's helping . I managed to have one super amazing solid sleep last night.
The only bad point I have now is the knee pain that arise after walking for a bit. That's the limiting factor for my walking. When that kicks in... I'm done. But it goes away after a good night sleep so I hope it's just a matter of training my legs and getting over it.
Other things I can comment on is about Novotel. I really like it. I've been there for a month and fell in love with many hotel staff. So helpful and nice. They help me and another patient (on her wheel chair with precice) in all we need. Such good people.
One last point is on the x-rays. I apologise to all but they give us a CD with the x-rays and I don't have access to a laptop or computer with CD player (I mean...who does today.. ???)
I'll try and get them read by someone but I don't wanna bother the nurses as they're getting sooo busy with all new patients.
That's pretty much it. Big finger crossed that the clicks stay as is.
I can't believe it's been more than a month already. Glad to hear everything is going well so far.
I'm kinda shocked you went to the beach already. :o Did you use the crutches walking on sand?
I'm still tossing up between Novotel and Montaza. I'm trying to work out which will end up being cheaper overall after factoring in travel costs but it's difficult without having much information yet on the (potential) new vehicle they will use to transport patients around.
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Haha, yeah it's gone fast. I'm glad too because I also think (hope) that the worst is behind me.
Definitely used the crutches. And it was ok. Not super easy but doable. I had to go up and down a lot of stairs which was a good training, but then I enjoyed the reward of spending a few hours sunbathing on a sunbed watching beautiful....people" ;D around me.
Man, my little 2 cents on the hotel. If you can afford the higher rate, go to Novotel 100%. Being in a hotel that is big, clean and fully serviced....with a swim pool on the roof top, gym and bars... And super nice staff it's priceless. Keeping a good mood is super important through this journey and from what I hear from other patients, the Montaza got none of these extras that make life easier and more enjoyable. Plus also the food here is great whereas I hear there is very limited in choice at Montaza. Maybe some other patient staying there can comment more, but that's what I understood so far.
One patient already moved from there to here so we're having a good time together.
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I did some very rough math for Novotel, did I make any obvious mistakes?
If I do internal tibias, I think I'd need to decide between Novotel and between the handicap room at Montaza
Novotel 86*7=602 euros but then subtract out 4*13 euros for money saved on shorter taxi trip
602 - 4*13 = 550 euros per week when factoring in money saved from a shorter taxi trip
montaza hotel I think is like 61 or 62 ish per day for a handicap room, which seems like 427 ish Euros per week
Across 6 months for internal tibias, that could be like 123*4*6 = very roughly 3000 more to be at Novotel versus the montaza hotel handicap room
1. How often do the nurses come to Novotel? I think you said earlier it was they come just when some has a specific problem and also early on their journey?
The other x factors are the noise at Montaza from the strip clubs and also whether the upcoming potential arranged travel option will go to Novotel (I have to think it would, given how close Novotel is to Montaza though)
2. How big are the desks in the room at Novotel? They are pretty tiny at Montaza
3. How's the noise at Novotel?
Thanks!!!!
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er typo, shoulda been "how close novotel is to the PT center"
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I feel like the biggest problem with Montaza is that there is a bit of a dice roll of whether you happen to end up close to the strip club noise or not (then sleep from 11pm - 5 am ish is potentially screwed)
How much does the food cost at Novotel and what dishes do you like there?
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One patient already moved from there to here so we're having a good time together.
For that patient's privacy, I won't use the name, but I think that is the girl right? She is the only one who has been to both right? And she prefers novotel despite the lower frequency of times the nurses come?
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Yeah it's that one patient. She's loving it apparently.
The reduced frequency of the nurses is not because of being at Novotel, but just because both of us have absolutely no need for them to come.
From what they told me at the beginning, I understood they would come indefinitely if there were problems with clicking or to conduct some indispensable task.
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I did some very rough math for Novotel, did I make any obvious mistakes?
If I do internal tibias, I think I'd need to decide between Novotel and between the handicap room at Montaza
Novotel 86*7=602 euros but then subtract out 4*13 euros for money saved on shorter taxi trip
602 - 4*13 = 550 euros per week when factoring in money saved from a shorter taxi trip
montaza hotel I think is like 61 or 62 ish per day for a handicap room, which seems like 427 ish Euros per week
Across 6 months for internal tibias, that could be like 123*4*6 = very roughly 3000 more to be at Novotel versus the montaza hotel handicap room
1. How often do the nurses come to Novotel? I think you said earlier it was they come just when some has a specific problem and also early on their journey?
The other x factors are the noise at Montaza from the strip clubs and also whether the upcoming potential arranged travel option will go to Novotel (I have to think it would, given how close Novotel is to Montaza though)
2. How big are the desks in the room at Novotel? They are pretty tiny at Montaza
3. How's the noise at Novotel?
Thanks!!!!
I think your calls are about right.
For the food menu, I'll take a photo and try to upload in a later post. In general the menu is great. Lots of salad with proteins (chicken, Ceasar, Halloumi and more). Various burgers (beef, chicken, vegan), a number of pasta dishes, salmon, scallops, pork chops and a few others I can't remember. They also have nice cheese platters and other finger food options.
The high point though (for me) it's the breakfast. I mean it's a buffet with a huge variety of options. From greens, veggies, eggs made in various ways, cheese, hams... Then move onto sweet stuff with croissants, cakes... Won't continue there's too many things. Perhaps if you guys navigate to google reviews of this hotel I'm sure there'll be plenty of images that describe the breakfast variety here.
I usually go there pretty early (like 630am for a big morning feast after my clicking) and then top it off around 1030am for an early lunch.
Then, answers to your queetions
1- the nurses told me it doesn't matter whether it's Novotel or montaza. They will.come visit you until it's needed. Most patients tend to become independent in about two weeks or so (which is also the turn over time for new surgeries). So naturally they tend to show up less and start focusing on the new patients. However, they did told me that if I were to have problems with clicking or any specific chore they will be helping for the entire lengthening. Obviously, if one tries to abuse of this service, they'd probably figure it out and be less available, but so far I felt they've definitely overachiever my expectations.
2- see image attached. They're big enough to do work on them. I'd say 1.2mt by 0.5mt. plus they swivel so you get a double surface.
3- absolutely no noise whatsoever.
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Desk image here
https://i.imgur.com/lIDhdV4.jpg
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Thanks!!! Could you post a picture of the bathroom? I couldn't find any handicap room on their website https://www.novotelathens.gr/
Just curious if there are any hand rails or anything
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Desk image here
https://i.imgur.com/lIDhdV4.jpg
Offhand, it seems like novotel wins in these catgories:
- has a gym w/ an easier to use bicycle
- nicer
- bigger
- pool, but maybe has some dangerous steps? Not sure if internal tibia user can use
- desk bigger -> better for gamers
- closer to PT center
- better selection for breakfast buffet and other meals
- less noise / don't have a dice roll of whether you happen to be near montaza's nearby strip clubs
- ? not sure if it has a handicap option w/ rails?
- ? is it near a busy road? i'm assuming not if noise is not a problem
And montaza has:
- more frequent nurse visits
- cheaper
- has a handicap option with wall rails, though my current handicap room is pretty close to the strip club noise
- even if you are not near the strip club noise, the car noise outside is significant just like for the hyatt option, both hyatt and montaza near a busy road
hyatt
- don't know anyone who has gone with this option yet, but its across the street from montaza, most expensive option I think, has the busy street noise but should be farther away from the strip club noise
I'd say both have friendly staff it seems and good room service
1. Something I'm wondering about though is do you know of anyone who did internal tibia only? I'm a bit curious about how much help they need to enter the taxi
At Montaza, I've had Bill or Evi every PT day help me get into the taxi. Although technically with gnail femur now, I don't need their help anymore, it was extremely useful like maybe the first 11 days or so to have their help for that transfer
I'm a bit curious for internal tibia how much help someone needs to transfer into the taxi from the wheelchair and how much the novotel hotel staff help with that
2. How's the internet at Novotel? Its OK at Montaza
3. How are the food prices at Novotel? Oh wait sorry nevermind I see you said you will take a picture of the menu
I'm starting to wonder for internal tibia if a few weeks at Montaza's handicap room (for increased nurse support) followed by moving to Novotel like the girl did is the best option if someone can afford it or if that midway hotel transfer is not that useful
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I'm guessing your room type is "Superior" room type?
https://www.novotelathens.gr/%cf%84%ce%b1-%ce%b4%cf%89%ce%bc%ce%ac%cf%84%ce%b9%ce%b1-%ce%bc%ce%b1%cf%82/superior/
They seem to have superior, superior with double couch (don't see the use of a double couch tbh), superior twin (don't see the use of having two small beds), executive room (don't know what it has), and suite (which gives the impression from the image they posted of being very large, but I am not sure)
I'm guessing that Evi the nurse has the 86 euro per night deal w/ the "superior" style room? Which appears to be their basic room type
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So I realized in another thread my math might be wrong
If someone goes to physical therapy 4 times per week, then there are actually 8 taxi rides per week (to and back 4 times)
So actually someone will save like 13*4*2 = 104 euros ish per week I think? not sure if I screwed up the math again but if true, this would mean that novotel is much closer in price to montaza than I thought. Though I'm not sure if this will change when the prearranged transport kicks in that Evi (a nurse) mentioned
I think if someone is in externals though I wonder if that more constant nurse support is just really helpful, exposed wounds, pin infections, having the nurse look at the pin sites more frequently, more help getting into the taxi consistently from the nurse not sure
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Man, CHILL down!!!
You can't just dump any thought you have in your head on multiple diaries. It makes them hard to read for everyone.
Plus many of the questions you have made have been answered before.
I already said about the nurses coming here as frequently as the other hotels. They go where the patients need. They stay at Montaza these days because you guys needed them there.
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Man, CHILL down!!!
You can't just dump any thought you have in your head on multiple diaries. It makes them hard to read for everyone.
Plus many of the questions you have made have been answered before.
I already said about the nurses coming here as frequently as the other hotels. They go where the patients need. They stay at Montaza these days because you guys needed them there.
That’s exactly what I’ve been trying to say to SpeedDialer.
SpeedDialer, you’ve been on this forum for 3 years. You are not a newbie to leg lengthening, but you still act like it by asking every basic question about LL that has been answered before or which you can easily find out by doing a little research.
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Evi advised me via email when they start using the SUV to transport patients the average ride will cost between 7 - 15 euros depending on the distance. This seems like a substantial saving, particularly if you're staying at Montaza. I hope they roll it out quickly for you guys so you can confirm ;D
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Hi Ozboy39
Congrats on your LL journey!! . I arrived at the Montaza recently and will be doing my surgery tomorrow with Dr Giotikas
Thinking of moving to the Novotel after 3-4 weeks given the amenities as I don't really like the idea of being confined to a small room for a long period of time.
How often do you find yourself using the hotel amenities like the pool, gym etc and how does their laundry service work at the Novotel? Thanks
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Hi Ozboy39
Congrats on your LL journey!! . I arrived at the Montaza recently and will be doing my surgery tomorrow with Dr Giotikas
Thinking of moving to the Novotel after 3-4 weeks given the amenities as I don't really like the idea of being confined to a small room for a long period of time.
How often do you find yourself using the hotel amenities like the pool, gym etc and how does their laundry service work at the Novotel? Thanks
Congrats to you too. And good luck on the surgery tomorrow.
I use them all the time I feel I can get there. Especially the gym. I use a lot their rooftop area as a way to chill during the day. The pool not so often yet but I hope I'll go more as I regain more mobility.
I do not use their laundry because it is expensive (don't remember the price but it was ridiculously expensive). But you can book a laundry service for 9 euro on Wolf l. They come pick it up, do the laundry and deliver it back so... Pretty convenient.
Let us know how you go tomorrow.
I'm sure you'll be super stoked after waking up.
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Novotel dinner menu for the folks who are interested
https://i.imgur.com/4OuS9jZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IKzSsjW.jpg
There's a variety of drinks obviously but didn't take any photo
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Thanks for a picture of the menu. Looks like there's a good variety of food/drinks there. How much are you spending on food each week atm?
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Surgery completed! And feeling is somewhat surreal and amazing. Can't describe how excited when I woke up and found myself realizing I'm ACTUALLY doing this
https://imgur.com/a/gW81SJB
Will be talking to Evi in the next couple of days about the novotel as the rooftop looks stunning and would be great to me you and other LL patients to share our experiences
Thanks for the pictures.did you book your stay of Novotel the entire 2 months in advance? Or do you inform the hotel that you wish to further we extend your stay?
Made a mistake booking two months in advance(paid)with Montaza and will see what options are if I could swap over to Novotel
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Surgery completed! And feeling is somewhat surreal and amazing. Can't describe how excited when I woke up and found myself realizing I'm ACTUALLY doing this
https://imgur.com/a/gW81SJB
Will be talking to Evi in the next couple of days about the novotel as the rooftop looks stunning and would be great to me you and other LL patients to share our experiences
Thanks for the pictures.did you book your stay of Novotel the entire 2 months in advance? Or do you inform the hotel that you wish to further we extend your stay?
Made a mistake booking two months in advance(paid)with Montaza and will see what options are if I could swap over to Novotel
Congrats on having the surgery! How do you feel? Will you make your own diary about your experience?
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Thanks for a picture of the menu. Looks like there's a good variety of food/drinks there. How much are you spending on food each week atm?
I'd say about 150 to 200Euro per week. That is because I don't have breakfast included in the hotel cost (I opened up the dances at Novotel sort of speak so I didn't have the deal that the doctor has cut now for all future patients).
So, 15 euro per day on breakfast which also makes my lunch as they open until 1030am and I am an early riser and so my first breakky usually happens at 630 to 700am.
Then dinner varies from 10 to 20 euro each.
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Surgery completed! And feeling is somewhat surreal and amazing. Can't describe how excited when I woke up and found myself realizing I'm ACTUALLY doing this
https://imgur.com/a/gW81SJB
Will be talking to Evi in the next couple of days about the novotel as the rooftop looks stunning and would be great to me you and other LL patients to share our experiences
Thanks for the pictures.did you book your stay of Novotel the entire 2 months in advance? Or do you inform the hotel that you wish to further we extend your stay?
Made a mistake booking two months in advance(paid)with Montaza and will see what options are if I could swap over to Novotel
Man I'm so happy for you and looking forward to meet up soon when you get outta there. Glad to hear you are in a good mood now.
Please my 2 cents suggestion. The mood might swing up and down these days especially when you're off the IV painkillers and back to the hotel.
keep that in mind and always remember that it's normal. The first 2.weeks are a bit rough for everyone but we all get through it fine.
Then if you're having issue cancelling and refunding from montaza, get Evi to talk to them directly. they bring montaza tons of patients so I'm sure she'd have a good leverage on them.
And also She's really good at pushing a point with peoplr and very helpful in general.
I had booked Novotel in two stages so to have the option to change in case I didn't like it. But I did like it so....I'm still here.
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Your advice and diary has honestly helped me a lot in terms of what to expect and man I get what you mean about mood swings.
This morning woke up feeling like my legs were logs and had pain with movements/stretches. Just trying to keep a good mental mindset and might possibly start my own diary. Vision was blurry yesterday so difficulty typing
Did some walks on the walker but any tips on what I can do to be less afraid since I feel super wobbly from the knees? Does this stop after a while?
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Happy to hear that. Thanks!!!
One thing the physiotherapist told me the first day that really resonated with me was:
"Expect every day to feel a different pain, different type and different areas of your legs". Some days these pains are milder and you can sort of disregard them. Some other days, they are more intense and they last the whole day. There's not much we can do about it, but at least know that this is how it's gonna be. And it's normal. Some guys have it better some guys worse than others.
For the Walker, I just tried to make sure my legs were locked out straight when dropping on them. And pretty much used my upper body only to move around.
Another suggestion (strong suggestion) at this stage you're at is to NOT overdo it. When I was there I was reading many diaries from either older G-nail or Betz or guichet patients. Some of them describing walking after a few days.. walking 500mt on day 7 or so... So I tried to push myself.
Wrong. I just set myself back with knee and hip pains. And this happens to me everytime I feel good and the joint pain recedes... I overdo it and then I screw myself up for the next 3 or 4 days. Listen to your body. When it start hurting too much, stop and chill.
We are lucky enough that we do 4 days a week of specialised PT for this thing. On top of that, yes we need to do stretching at home (at a lower intensity) and some movement...but always conservative (5, 10 minutes every now and then which is basically doing basic chores, and moving around the hotel). As soon as the joints feel a bit sore or fatigued please stop.
If not, the muscle and everything else becomes stiffer and sore and that will affect everything else (clicks, PT, mobility)for the next 3 or 4 days.and it feels awful.
So... Take it easy, move a lot in bed (raise your legs, move them up and down, stretch them as they showed you, feel how weird they feel when you rotate them or move sideways.... You know what I mean right?) but don't feel the pressure of having to do "hours" of work.
Just that.
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Have you seen any petite people (especially females) using the Gnail there?
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No. Not at the moment at least.
There are women doing precice now (femur) and I heard of a lot of older patients (female) but they all seemed to have done precice.
Not sure if anybody else can comment further.
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No. Not at the moment at least.
There are women doing precice now (femur) and I heard of a lot of older patients (female) but they all seemed to have done precice.
Not sure if anybody else can comment further.
Is there how many women compared to men? Still so hard to understand why women would do this procedure ???
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No. Not at the moment at least.
There are women doing precice now (femur) and I heard of a lot of older patients (female) but they all seemed to have done precice.
Not sure if anybody else can comment further.
How old are the women?
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Yeah i am with you. Don't really understand why, but apparently they somehow feel like we do.
Anyway, right now there's 1 girl here at Novotel doing precice.
Just before I arrived another one went home who was also doing precice
This in comparison to current 8 or 9 male patients (additional 2 have leftt in my first and second week here).
A rough ratio of 10 to 1 male to female.
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I think it's because Gnail is thicker (11mm) and won't suit petite peoples bones.
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How old are the women?
Both in their early 30s
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I think it's because Gnail is thicker (11mm) and won't suit petite peoples bones.
That can definitely be a cause for the G-nail but my gut feel is simply that this very rough 10% ratio represent the demand for LL of men and women. It sounds about right (actually if I had to pick I'd say this ratio should be close to 2 or 3%) but the math is done on numbers who aren't statistically representative.
If I remember I'll ask this question to the Doc next time around. I'm sure he'll have more robust numbers
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That can definitely be a cause for the G-nail but my gut feel is simply that this very rough 10% ratio represent the demand for LL of men and women. It sounds about right (actually if I had to pick I'd say this ratio should be close to 2 or 3%) but the math is done on numbers who aren't statistically representative.
If I remember I'll ask this question to the Doc next time around. I'm sure he'll have more robust numbers
Thanks! I am curious to know if he has had to disqualify people from using the GNail because they were too petite and how rare this is.
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Hi Ozboy39, did you ask Dr G about quad lengthening?
I plans to do femirs first to get max length. So I don't want to do the 2 weeks option.
Am I able to do tibia after 4 months after femur surgery? I just don't want to recover fully and then break my legs again
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Hi Ozboy39, did you ask Dr G about quad lengthening?
I plans to do femirs first to get max length. So I don't want to do the 2 weeks option.
Am I able to do tibia after 4 months after femur surgery? I just don't want to recover fully and then break my legs again
Hi Mini0510,
Have I missed some message from you? Was I suppose to ask the Dr. about the quadrilateral?
Anyway, as far as I know, if you don't do the two surgeries 2 or 3 weeks apart, then the best option is to actually wait until you've completely consolidated and healed before doing the other segment. Which usually takes approximately 1 year or so.
4 months post op you probably are just starting consolidation which requires you to walk and walk and walk more to grow a strong bone. If you go under surgery again you'll screw up this process so I believe that that's not a good option.
If you wanna be sure, just book a free 15 mins consultation with Giotikas or any other doctor. I think I've seen Dr Assayag commenting in some other thread these days. He could provide definitely a better answer than myself.
Cheers
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Hi Mini0510,
Have I missed some message from you? Was I suppose to ask the Dr. about the quadrilateral?
Anyway, as far as I know, if you don't do the two surgeries 2 or 3 weeks apart, then the best option is to actually wait until you've completely consolidated and healed before doing the other segment. Which usually takes approximately 1 year or so.
4 months post op you probably are just starting consolidation which requires you to walk and walk and walk more to grow a strong bone. If you go under surgery again you'll screw up this process so I believe that that's not a good option.
If you wanna be sure, just book a free 15 mins consultation with Giotikas or any other doctor. I think I've seen Dr Assayag commenting in some other thread these days. He could provide definitely a better answer than myself.
Cheers
No you didn't. I was just curious if you asked. i understand. I guess a year part is the way.
i already booked a 15min appointment with Dr. G. Thanks
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Update at 42 days post-op. 40mm lengthened
(Lengthy update below, apologies for that)
The challenges have begun but, first read below:
Wearing my sneakers (which add about 1.5inches) I now stand close to 173cm (5'8 ) which will be my final height barefoot if I manage to do 9cm. The feeling I get when standing among the crowds I usually stumble upon in and outside the hotel is indescribable.
All of sudden I see people from a distance that look slender and also tall..ish (although by no mean that height is actually tall), then I get close and my eyes are almost level or even slightly above theirs. And i feel (i can't quite explain it... It s very complex and I don't want to be shallow but) like I'm in "control" of myself and of the situation.
I automatically feel "I'm at your same level", hence more confident from the outset.
And with that goes my attitude towards the interaction I have with these people.
I joke more, I take more liberties (verbally that is), I'm not rushing my words and all I get is positive feedback. Im noticing I get serious answers or sort of like a respectful tone from males and ...surprise surprise Im getting flirty reactions and answers from females. And I swear, I'm not looking for that in any way.
I absolutely wasn't expecting this.
It feels good. It feels normal. It feels my mind can now concentrate fully on the interaction and on "everything else that's going on".
And If this is the feel at 173cm... I can only imagine what it would be when the lengthening will be done (hence with shoes I'd get to 177cm or 5'10).
Now I finally begin to understand the meaning behind the comments from patients who've done this. Now there is a tangible reward I am starting to enjoy that I can weigh against all the pain and discomfort that we are going through. And let me tell ya, it is absolutely f......g worth it!!!
Back to the process
- Clicking still takes the first place for the easiest thing out of all. For all people considering the G-nail (or Betzbone...some thing), the PT lady who's looking after myself (super duper competent...I've told her she should do an interview with Victor in my opinion) explained me that most patients that feel pain while clicking are the ones with developed quad and hamstring muscles. Ive heard conflicting opinion about this but she explained the technicality behind it (I don't remember it myself...sorry) and now I'm glad I did stop training legs at the beginning of the year and instead started doing stretching only.
- Legs control and strength (except for complications which I'll talk later) improves daily. Doing stairs up and down is realively easy with the aid of crutches of course. I could potentially lower.myself down in the toilette all by myself if I wanted to (I can't because one leg is crooked.......later).
-PT is indispensable. Not only for the stretching, but for all other treatments I'm getting to manage the various small complications I have and that I'll describe later (localised ice treatment, electricity, something for the nerves, pressure, massages, kinesiology tape ...anti g treadmill). Guys, Do not think this can be done properly by yourself. The surgery is only a small (albeit super important) part of this journey. wherever you end up doing this, make sure you budget for a 4 or 5 days a week of PT throughout the lengthening phase. Don't f...K tourself up for 2-3K €uro more. PT in my opinion is even more important than the surgery itself (provided the surgery is performed by one of the usual A class surgeon we know of)
- Hotel, Airbnb, Accommodation, transport....
These days I read a lot about comparison between various hotels, Airbnbs, transport, meals and so on. And it's ok. We should all do it to find the best arrangements. But together with discussing among ourselves, let's voice our own constructive feedback (personally, not as in a mob type of thing and not publicly) with the various doctors and nurses we're in touch with. That's how the SUV has come about here. Same as Novotel. If each one of us provide constructive feedback to the doctors, it will help them understand how to improve their services, based on what are the problems that we really care about! And if done properly... Things happen!
Then, although I realise that especially for the younger folks in here, the budget is by far the primary driver for doing this, keep in mind that this procedure will test you mentally more than it will physically.
Are you doing this solo (by yourself)…?
Yes, good it can be done (there's a guy here, a friend now, who's doing quadrilateral.precice all by himself in an Airbnb, so yes you can do that too), but his spirit and mind are as positive and solid AF (as f..K, or meaning very strong). I haven't met anybody else like him yet.
So, what's my suggestion?
Well, if you are in crappy hotel with food, alone, in pain, without being able to move and so on... That wears you down and that is a vicious cycle. You stop excercising, stretching, you eat crap, you get pains, you start crying and having onsets of depressions (God i had those and people who know me here understand that I'm the total opposite) and all of sudden you stop and overall your experience is horrible.
Plan this ahead and if you have to, wait 6 or 8 months more and save up. C'mon I'm doing it at 38yrs old, if you're 25, just wait and work 6 months more. Save those extra 5K and then you'll have a much different experience.
Life doesn't end at 30s (for the younger ones here). The best things start there (money, better dating, career growth...)
- Complications
My left leg is my superstar. No problems at all. I could probably play a football game right now with it.
My right leg is experiencing all sorts of little complications.
I have "strained" my quad muscle in 2 points. I've done this because I'm a d....head. my second day at the hotel I was doing stairs to go to the roof top and I strained it there.
Then a few weeks ago I went to the beach and put the leg through a similar effort and I strained it a second time. So putting weight on it is really hard now. Morale of the story. DONT OVERDO IT. The nail can take the weight... Your muscles Cannot. And they will tear, like mine did. I'd that happens, it hinders all your recovery as you won't be ble to walk properly for weeks. So please, although you read here people saying... I can walk 500 Mr after 7 days, don't do it. Follow the suggestions from the doc, from the nurses and from PT. I didnt... And i screwed myself up.
then, starting around 3cm, I developed first numbness and then nerve pain on my right shin and foot. Nobody's fault, just a common consequence of the lengthening. Both doctor and PT tell me that it will go once you stop lengthening so... I'll just bear with it. Next week at the next doc appointment we will evaluate if I need to slow down the lengthening even further.
BUT, important. At this length I'm also starting to feel tired and tight of lengthening non stop for weeks and weeks. And this has impacted my PT sessions. How did I improve it? Like many other older patients... I stopped lengthening for a day. And I can tell you, just one day stopping was such a relief for my legs. Which also gave me the confidence that as soona sthe lengthening is over, things will go back to normal quickly. Don't be afraid of stopping for 1 day. Tell your doctor first, explain that you can't even do PT for the various pains you have and get his green light to stop.
Unless your bones are prone to consolidate fast (which your doctor will tell you at the first exam post op), then you'll be fine.
- I've hit and I'm going through the muscle wall.
PT lady has told me that the feelings of tightness and discomfort I'm getting now they are very common at this length (+4cm). It's like I've got no more slack from initial length and lengthening and the body is responding serring up all sorts of alarms (pains) to alert that soemthinfs happening that shouldn't be happening (stretching of all soft tissue). In her opinion, these symptoms should subside in a few weeks as the body sort of get used to and relaxes against this stretching. My fingers are super crossed that this is in fact the case.
Other than this. I have a bit more than two weeks left here in Greece and then will be flying back to Australia where I will finishy lengthening and do consolidation with my family.
As much as I enjoy the stay at Novotel and in Greece at this time of the year (people and staff are so friendly), I can't wait to go back. Mentally I feel tired. I had a few episodes of something I can only think of as depression and let me tell ya, it's awful and it was uncontrollable to me. (And I'm probably one of the most positive person you'll meet here). If you can, don't do this thing alone. If you can, tell someone in your circle. Having someone to talk to in the down moments is essential .
I ended up opening up with my brother and every few days I give him a call just to unload some of the stories and things that I go through.
Last, for the ones thinking of working remotely whilst lengthening, please make sure you are flexible at your work and that your company will give you some slack in terms of your performance and time. You will not be productive during the leghtening. No matter if G-nail, precice, external... Whatever.
That's all for now. Again apologies for the lengthy update. Hope some of the above can be helpful
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No you didn't. I was just curious if you asked. i understand. I guess a year part is the way.
i already booked a 15min appointment with Dr. G. Thanks
No worries. Good luck
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Thanks for the update OzBoy!
Are you apprehensive for the plane trip back to Aus? Also, what rate of lengthening are you doing for your legs atm?
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No, not really apprehensive at all.
I'm going at 0.8mm per day (12 clicks).
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- Complications
My left leg is my superstar. No problems at all. I could probably play a football game right now with it.
My left leg is also better (except its quad is tighter). I have the perception that the big click being first for the right leg is a problem (I have more numbness, knee pain, other issues on right leg) but I can't prove it
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Yeah I understand. You're right. It's hard to understand an eventual causation relation between pain and .... Cause.
For me I'm pretty sure that all problems have started since I had gotten that muscle strain on my second day of clicking. But as you said, I can't prove that either.
Let's see if stopping clicking for a day or two helps.
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Both in their early 30s
Somehow when I'm very sleepy, my eyes keep reading this as "Born in the early 30s"
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Glad you got your new height, your experience is really inspiring！
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last meeting with Dr. G before going back home
X-rays show lengthening of 42mm.
Nails, screws and all the rest is straight and no problems.
Callus is forming, but slowly. Still within the norm.
We looked at the issues I have on my right leg in depth. Nothing major, but the diagnosis of the nerve pain was right.
The nerve is irritated but no damage to it.
We decided to slow down clicking to 10 per day and also to change the medication regime.
I'll reduce the tramadol to 1 per day
I'll increase the Lyrica to 3 per day.
I also have knee pain due to the weakness in my right quad which I'll have to work on to reduce and eliminate
Unfortunately the issue with knee and nerve pain has been such that I avoided walking or exercising my legs recently.
My mobility is also somewhat impacted (hamstring and quad).
Overall though, no major issues, just these complications to manage in the next few weeks.
The doctor will prepare a referral and a report for me to show Tommy GP when back in the country.
He will also put me in contact with Dr Mosh, a physiotherapist from the US, with whom I'm gonna meet weekly online.
He will also instruct my physiotherapist back in Australia regarding limb lengthening.
I'm super stoked to go back. Despite having had an amazing experience in Greece and with the team of Dr Giotikas, i feel that having my family around will be beneficial for my second half of lengthening.
2 months have gone super quick, despite the hardship of this procedure. My fingers are always crossed regarding any potential new complication, but at this stage, if I keep disciplined to my routine, I should be able to manage my body well.
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safe travels mate
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Safe travels!
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u lengthened only 4cm within 2 months??
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last meeting with Dr. G before going back home
X-rays show lengthening of 42mm.
Nails, screws and all the rest is straight and no problems.
Callus is forming, but slowly. Still within the norm.
We looked at the issues I have on my right leg in depth. Nothing major, but the diagnosis of the nerve pain was right.
The nerve is irritated but no damage to it.
We decided to slow down clicking to 10 per day and also to change the medication regime.
I'll reduce the tramadol to 1 per day
I'll increase the Lyrica to 3 per day.
I also have knee pain due to the weakness in my right quad which I'll have to work on to reduce and eliminate
Unfortunately the issue with knee and nerve pain has been such that I avoided walking or exercising my legs recently.
My mobility is also somewhat impacted (hamstring and quad).
Overall though, no major issues, just these complications to manage in the next few weeks.
The doctor will prepare a referral and a report for me to show Tommy GP when back in the country.
He will also put me in contact with Dr Mosh, a physiotherapist from the US, with whom I'm gonna meet weekly online.
He will also instruct my physiotherapist back in Australia regarding limb lengthening.
I'm super stoked to go back. Despite having had an amazing experience in Greece and with the team of Dr Giotikas, i feel that having my family around will be beneficial for my second half of lengthening.
2 months have gone super quick, despite the hardship of this procedure. My fingers are always crossed regarding any potential new complication, but at this stage, if I keep disciplined to my routine, I should be able to manage my body well.
Congrats!
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How come you lengthened only 4.2cms in two months? Are you lengthening 0.75mm a day?
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Technically it's not 2.months yet. 2.months will be on October 24th (in about 12 days)... So at that point my height will be somewhere around 5cm.
But Yes, since my first visit 15 days after surgery I've gone down to 12 clicks which is approximately 0.78mm.
Plus I took some days off here and there to ease nerve pain and general discomfort.
I'm not really in a rush to finish, but instead I'd like to not being in pain while I'm through the process.
Since yesterday (last check up visit here in Greece) We decided to further slow down to 10 clicks (0.65mm approx)
Cheers
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Technically it's not 2.months yet. 2.months will be on October 24th (in about 12 days)... So at that point my height will be somewhere around 5cm.
But Yes, since my first visit 15 days after surgery I've gone down to 12 clicks which is approximately 0.78mm.
Plus I took some days off here and there to ease nerve pain and general discomfort.
I'm not really in a rush to finish, but instead I'd like to not being in pain while I'm through the process.
Since yesterday (last check up visit here in Greece) We decided to further slow down to 10 clicks (0.65mm approx)
Cheers
I've also gone down to 10 clicks per day, and I'm hoping I could do even less someday because I've decided to stay in Athens extra long. Not sure how low someone can go before premature consolidation becomes an issue, my bone growth now is pretty slow. I wonder what the lowest realistic number of clicks per days is while still lengthening
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I too have a shlower than average bone growth but nothing to be concerned about accorsing to the Dr.
This is mainly in the right leg which I haven't used much due to nerve knee, muscle strain.
I've read in various other diaries that the theoretical consolidation rate of an average individual is about 0.25mm per day, although I don't understand the process myself.
I've also read a number of diaries of femur patients lengthening at 0.5mm per day so I think we still have some slack if we need to slow down further.
I'd take 8 clicks any day if that gets rid of the nerve pain. Let's see what this coming week at 10 clicks bring about.
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Been at 78mm daily for 4 months, no consolidation, have skipped up to 2 days for pain.
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Been at 78mm daily for 4 months, no consolidation, have skipped up to 2 days for pain.
I am fairly certain you don't mean 78mm daily (search '78 mm in cm' in google to see what I mean)
Think you meant 0.78 mm per day right?
Hm... 0.78*15=11.7 so I guess for g-nail that'd be about 11-12 gnail clicks per day? I'm on 10 clicks per day now (about 0.666 mm per day I think?)
I'm hoping the doc will let me do even less per day, I just don't know how low I can go before premature consolidation becomes a problem
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Been at 0.78mm daily for 4 months, no consolidation, have skipped up to 2 days for pain.
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I am fairly certain you don't mean 78mm daily (search '78 mm in cm' in google to see what I mean)
Think you meant 0.78 mm per day right?
Hm... 0.78*15=11.7 so I guess for g-nail that'd be about 11-12 gnail clicks per day? I'm on 10 clicks per day now (about 0.666 mm per day I think?)
I'm hoping the doc will let me do even less per day, I just don't know how low I can go before premature consolidation becomes a problem
it's for the Betz nail, each click is .0052mm. It 13 days for 1cm rounded or 1.014cm
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Yep, 0.78. Whether premature consolidation happens is individual but I read somewhere that the average person consolidates at 0.25mm a day, so Im scared to go more than 2 days without clicks. Keep in mind if PC starts happening in the first couple days you can still break through it and get back to normal. There was a time clicks became really hard at that rate and I went to 20 clicks and then back to 15 and it was fine. I don't think one day you just can't click and that's it. You will notice the difficulty building and building.
I am fairly certain you don't mean 78mm daily (search '78 mm in cm' in google to see what I mean)
Think you meant 0.78 mm per day right?
Hm... 0.78*15=11.7 so I guess for g-nail that'd be about 11-12 gnail clicks per day? I'm on 10 clicks per day now (about 0.666 mm per day I think?)
I'm hoping the doc will let me do even less per day, I just don't know how low I can go before premature consolidation becomes a problem
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At Novotel when you got breakfast twice, did someone at the the buffet help you put the food on the plate each time? I find it a bit difficult to reach some foods (like the eggs in those metal heater things) while on the wheelchair
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They always try to help. The ladies at the restaurant are so nice. Even too much for me.
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Hi OzBoy39
First off, I've really enjoyed your diary and appreciate the information provided! This information is extremely valuable to some of the us who will be doing this procedure or are considering it.
I found out about CLL back in 2014/2015 and have now decided it's now or never. I've booked my surgery bi-lateral femurs using G-nails with Dr Giotikas in December 2022!!
I understand you stayed in Athens for 2 months, then went back home. I'm considering staying in Athens for 6 weeks then going back home. I live alone and I'm very independent. When you were at 6 weeks how was your mobility and ability to be self sufficient? If you lived alone do you feel like you would be self sufficient at 6 weeks or would you need assistants? I'm really curious about driving. Do you think you would be able to drive at 6 weeks? I'm thinking I may need to drive to PT when I'm back home. Any circumstances you think may be a problem at 6 weeks? If at 6 weeks you don't think you'd be self sufficient, at what point do you think you would be? Sorry for all the questions :-\, I'm just trying to get an idea on how independent I will be at 6 weeks. I would really appreciate you input and response!
If anyone else who has been through the process has any input, I'd appreciate that as well.
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Hi OzBoy39
First off, I've really enjoyed your diary and appreciate the information provided! This information is extremely valuable to some of the us who will be doing this procedure or are considering it.
I found out about CLL back in 2014/2015 and have now decided it's now or never. I've booked my surgery bi-lateral femurs using G-nails with Dr Giotikas in December 2022!!
I understand you stayed in Athens for 2 months, then went back home. I'm considering staying in Athens for 6 weeks then going back home. I live alone and I'm very independent. When you were at 6 weeks how was your mobility and ability to be self sufficient? If you lived alone do you feel like you would be self sufficient at 6 weeks or would you need assistants? I'm really curious about driving. Do you think you would be able to drive at 6 weeks? I'm thinking I may need to drive to PT when I'm back home. Any circumstances you think may be a problem at 6 weeks? If at 6 weeks you don't think you'd be self sufficient, at what point do you think you would be? Sorry for all the questions :-\, I'm just trying to get an idea on how independent I will be at 6 weeks. I would really appreciate you input and response!
If anyone else who has been through the process has any input, I'd appreciate that as well.
I did gnail femur surgery in early to mid September so I actually think right now I'm roughly around 6 weeks
Right now here are the issues I'm bumping into:
- sometimes hip pain maybe 5-6 out of 10 sometimes but more often 2-3 pain will kick in (? maybe from the nail inside pushing against insides?) and sometimes that pain spreads to the rest of the leg sometimes and I gotta sorta ice pack it/wait it out for a while. Seems to be (not sure though?) related when I sit down too fast or take a step a bit too far forward. I also wonder if it is related to lying on the side, not sure though
- knee pain (3-4ish out of 10 pain)/thigh stiffness waking me up a few times each night -> I stretch/then ice pack it for a while each time
- lower leg nerve pain, sharp pain, goes from low pain to high real fast when one of my hip flexors is stretched more
- Although I think I might technically be physically able drive now, I'm a bit afraid of certain pains (like above) kicking in in the middle of driving and I wouldn't feel that comfortable doing it
- I am able to shower with the crutches, go the bathroom with the walker, and go to the taxi to PT with my crutches. I have not attempted stairs and am scared of them but I think I am technically probably able to do them with a rail to hold onto but would not feel safe doing it tbh. I will say that ordinary tasks tire me out alot more than they would normally though so that's a consideration.
- I can't really bend down to pick something off the floor that easily, I think I might technically be able to do it but don't feel safe doing it (lack of hamstring range of motion) and I just use the grabber
- Walking normally ish with crutches for me feels like a light hamstring stretch and sometimes that deep inside hip pain mentioned above kicks in after certain kinds of steps, not sure what triggers it
I'm not sure when I'd feel self sufficient, like I feel I am physically capable of alot of tasks with the assistance of crutches/walker but don't feel quite safe doing them. I feel like another month I'd feel alot better but then again my legs will also be tighter/more lengthened by then. I can see why they tell patients 6 weeks though, like I do feel so much stronger than before
If this deep hip pain would stop kicking it at various times, I'd feel alot closer to normal/more independent
Now then again, ozboy seems like his recovery has been better than mine so his input could be valuable. He has also walked alot more than me.
When are you coming to Athens?
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Hi OzBoy39
First off, I've really enjoyed your diary and appreciate the information provided! This information is extremely valuable to some of the us who will be doing this procedure or are considering it.
I found out about CLL back in 2014/2015 and have now decided it's now or never. I've booked my surgery bi-lateral femurs using G-nails with Dr Giotikas in December 2022!!
I understand you stayed in Athens for 2 months, then went back home. I'm considering staying in Athens for 6 weeks then going back home. I live alone and I'm very independent. When you were at 6 weeks how was your mobility and ability to be self sufficient? If you lived alone do you feel like you would be self sufficient at 6 weeks or would you need assistants? I'm really curious about driving. Do you think you would be able to drive at 6 weeks? I'm thinking I may need to drive to PT when I'm back home. Any circumstances you think may be a problem at 6 weeks? If at 6 weeks you don't think you'd be self sufficient, at what point do you think you would be? Sorry for all the questions :-\, I'm just trying to get an idea on how independent I will be at 6 weeks. I would really appreciate you input and response!
If anyone else who has been through the process has any input, I'd appreciate that as well.
Hi Bro
The first two weeks - you will need some help in mobility even though Gnail is weight bearing
Your muscles are weak, and thus u need a walker to walk.
It is not advisable to go outside alone until you are able to move with crutches.
Athens Road and Buildings are not wheelchairs or handicapped friendly.
I stayed in Athens for 9weeks, completed 85% lengthening before flying home.
You can do physio yourself by using Yoga Band for stretching and station bicycle for strength.
It is exactly what you will be doing at Athens for 4 times per week.
I drive when home, it should not be a problem.
You may experience some muscle stiffness and numbness - so jus take it easy, do massage and rest or do less clicks.
Once you stop clicking, your legs will improve day by day.
FYI...I was walking independently within 3 weeks consolidation.
No duck ass or wide legs, my walking gait was good but slow.
Now, i can do brisk walking and jog.
Do take this forum as a reference and consult the doctor before decide what to do.
After all, it is jus an experience sharing and none of us here is the LL doctor.
Good luck !
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You’ll be able to drive at 6 weeks. Gmail is similar to betzbone which I had done
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Hi OzBoy39
First off, I've really enjoyed your diary and appreciate the information provided! This information is extremely valuable to some of the us who will be doing this procedure or are considering it.
I found out about CLL back in 2014/2015 and have now decided it's now or never. I've booked my surgery bi-lateral femurs using G-nails with Dr Giotikas in December 2022!!
I understand you stayed in Athens for 2 months, then went back home. I'm considering staying in Athens for 6 weeks then going back home. I live alone and I'm very independent. When you were at 6 weeks how was your mobility and ability to be self sufficient? If you lived alone do you feel like you would be self sufficient at 6 weeks or would you need assistants? I'm really curious about driving. Do you think you would be able to drive at 6 weeks? I'm thinking I may need to drive to PT when I'm back home. Any circumstances you think may be a problem at 6 weeks? If at 6 weeks you don't think you'd be self sufficient, at what point do you think you would be? Sorry for all the questions :-\, I'm just trying to get an idea on how independent I will be at 6 weeks. I would really appreciate you input and response!
If anyone else who has been through the process has any input, I'd appreciate that as well.
Hi Limbextender,
My reply is along the lines of the ones above.
Technically I believe you could be able to drive unless there's some strange complications. Im at exactly 60days post op today and drove home from airport. No problems (and I do have complications in my right leg,).
Re independence, you are indeed, but withal a very limited outlook of what you can and cant do. You can adjust your life to your limitations, but everything is kinda hard to do.
Nonetheless, if you have a "can do" approach, you'll be independent by then.
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Update at 60days post-op and 50mm distraction AND a question for some veterans (if any around)
Finally landed back home in Australia. So good to see my family again.
I'm sure they'll be of great help in the second half of lengthening.
Question re nerve pain/skin sensitivity and swell of lower leg
I slowed down to 10 clicks per day 2 weeks ago and I actually stopped for the last 48 hours. Still the same pain, uncomfortable feeling which started at around 3cm distraction. Anyone who's had similar symptoms that feels like sharing their experience (I guess I'm trying to sort of prepare myself for the next two months leveraging the past experiences of other fellow LLers)
My right leg is also considerably more swollen then the left.
And my right knee hurts when i put or remove weight on/from it.
Doctor at last appointment said that knee pain is due to muscle weakness so that I should walk more. And in regards to nerve pain and swell, he assessed the mobility, feelings and status of my foot, ankle, calf and shin and concluded that there's nothing concerning. I'm happy with that.but...
And he decided to slow me down to 10clicks.
Problem is that because of my right leg issues, I feel I'm damaging my training / stretching and general life quality (intended as in life quality for us crippled LLers) that instead, my left leg would allow me to have.
My left leg feels like I could start training for a marathon and unfortunately what that does is that anytime I'm on my feet I tend to shift most of my weight on that leg which I'm sure is not the right thing to do.
Sometimes I consciously realign myself....but then that hurts my right knee. It feels like a losing battle sometimes. You do 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
So, that's my update/request for information for this time.
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For the rest, my last few weeks were quite uneventful. Clicks continue to be super easy and i understand all 4 current patients here on G-nail don't have major issues either (thx God).
PT had become hard as in painful (always on my right leg only). I regain strength on my quad and I can manage to actually push some "speed" on the bike (like doing a 1km at 90watts... Which is nothing in normal circumstances but it feels strong right now). Hip and glutes strengthening excercises worked really well to help me with my hip pains and get me a bit more mobile when in a laying position.
I also came to realise that "personally" I would never ever do Precice and be wheelchair bound (or with the constant thought of bending the nail) for 3-4-5 months. But that's me and my "need" to move around and be independent.
My friends still in Greece who are on Precice ain't having a super good time with that and I wonder how much longer they'll need Walker and crutches during consolidation. Nope... not for me.
BUT, I must say that the majority of them are doing this solo. One guy especially is doing quadrilateral precice, all by himself in a Airbnb.
And we managed to hang out together quite a few times (him on a wheelchair) and myself behind with crutches pushing him around Athens.
Not safe, but good fun.
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Post in error, mods delete.
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"And we managed to hang out together quite a few times (him on a wheelchair) and myself behind with crutches pushing him around Athens"
LOL This must have been a sight to see. Thats great.
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Ozboy was great to meet in Athens, one of the most chill and helpful patients to talk to in person
Hope things go well, hope you keep in touch on the forum and tell us how the journey goes after coming home
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Thank you for the kind words man.
I'll definitely stay on the forum at least until this ordeal ends.
Things are going ok here and I'm in the process of booking GP appointment, finding physio, restarting gym... Basically returning to life as much as I can.
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Is anyone still in Athens? I'm arriving next week
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Is anyone still in Athens? I'm arriving next week
I'll PM you, a bunch of us here
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SpeedDialer, Bagga, Leonazula99, and OzBoy39,
I really appreciate you all responding to my questions! You all provided some great information and helped provide some insight on potential mobility and independence around 6 weeks post op!
Knowing what you know now, is there anything you would have done different or wish you had known prior? Are there any "must haves" you would recommend while in Athens during lengthening?
SpeedDialer - I'll be in Athens sometime around December 11.
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A few points that I could have done better
-Do not bring any work with you. Leave any commitment at home.
-Get an esim greek card with plenty of data.
-Workout your upper body as much as you can.
-Don't stress about the surgery. That's the easiest part. Not painful, not stressful, you just gotta sleep.
-After the surgery and wehn back to the hotel, do NOT overdo it. Basically if you doing G-nail, you might be tempted to start walking on your own, or do very long stints with Walker or crutches. DON'T. Follow the doc's advice. I torn my quad because I'm an idiot and I'm still paying for that.
- Make friends when you arrive and stick together. You're gonna need somebody to vent with when this thing hits you in your head (and it will...).
-get yourself those medical ice pack that can be somewhat flexed or bent to shape
That's all I can think of at the moment. Best of luck and again, don't stress about "the day". It's gonna come and be gone in a heartbeat. Then the fun begins.
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A few points that I could have done better
-Do not bring any work with you. Leave any commitment at home.
-Get an esim greek card with plenty of data.
-Workout your upper body as much as you can.
-Don't stress about the surgery. That's the easiest part. Not painful, not stressful, you just gotta sleep.
-After the surgery and wehn back to the hotel, do NOT overdo it. Basically if you doing G-nail, you might be tempted to start walking on your own, or do very long stints with Walker or crutches. DON'T. Follow the doc's advice. I torn my quad because I'm an idiot and I'm still paying for that.
- Make friends when you arrive and stick together. You're gonna need somebody to vent with when this thing hits you in your head (and it will...).
-get yourself those medical ice pack that can be somewhat flexed or bent to shape
That's all I can think of at the moment. Best of luck and again, don't stress about "the day". It's gonna come and be gone in a heartbeat. Then the fun begins.
I really appreciate the response! Some great information and advice!!
It's ALL fun right !?!? It's like a vacation ! ;D
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A few points that I could have done better
-Do not bring any work with you. Leave any commitment at home.
-Get an esim greek card with plenty of data.
-Workout your upper body as much as you can.
-Don't stress about the surgery. That's the easiest part. Not painful, not stressful, you just gotta sleep.
-After the surgery and wehn back to the hotel, do NOT overdo it. Basically if you doing G-nail, you might be tempted to start walking on your own, or do very long stints with Walker or crutches. DON'T. Follow the doc's advice. I torn my quad because I'm an idiot and I'm still paying for that.
- Make friends when you arrive and stick together. You're gonna need somebody to vent with when this thing hits you in your head (and it will...).
-get yourself those medical ice pack that can be somewhat flexed or bent to shape
That's all I can think of at the moment. Best of luck and again, don't stress about "the day". It's gonna come and be gone in a heartbeat. Then the fun begins.
Do you feel that you should have done maybe a cm less in lengthening? What's your opinion on going beyond 8cm on the femur?
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I really appreciate the response! Some great information and advice!!
It's ALL fun right !?!? It's like a vacation ! ;D
yeah man...trying to stay positive, but let me tell ya. the distraction phase is really really tough. Or at least for me that is.
that's why i believe that being comfortable as much as possible during this phase will maximise the chance of you not quitting.
I am at just 5.1cm today, kid you not I'm having strong mood swings because of the constant nerve painand sometimes the thought of calling it quit has gone through my head
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yeah man...trying to stay positive, but let me tell ya. the distraction phase is really really tough. Or at least for me that is.
that's why i believe that being comfortable as much as possible during this phase will maximise the chance of you not quitting.
I am at just 5.1cm today, kid you not I'm having strong mood swings because of the constant nerve painand sometimes the thought of calling it quit has gone through my head
well, i haven't reached 8cm yet, i'm barely past 5 right now.
my thought right now is that I'd be super stoked if I can even reach 8cm before giving up. I don't really know about complications going past 8cm. I know the likelihood grows exponentially past that.
if it was now.. i would stop at 8cm.
I'm back home and I'm re-starting all activities related to work, social, family. although it's great to be busy...it is absolutely exhausting.
I'll try to stay strong though and perhaps slow down the lengthening even further
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-get yourself those medical ice pack that can be somewhat flexed or bent to shape
100%
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Hey guys,
How is Dr. Giotikas handling your painkiller/opiod usage?
I'm really afraid of getting addicted to them (since the last several years in Canada they have very serious warnings about using them so the medical professionals here basically never hand them out anymore).
I'm looking for your advice and experiences regarding this topic.
Thank you!
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Hey guys,
How is Dr. Giotikas handling your painkiller/opiod usage?
I'm really afraid of getting addicted to them (since the last several years in Canada they have very serious warnings about using them so the medical professionals here basically never hand them out anymore).
I'm looking for your advice and experiences regarding this topic.
Thank you!
Hey James,
Giotikas is on the same line l. As in he'll try to give you the least amount of painkillers necessary to keep your pain level at a touch less than kiserable. When o asked about it he mentioned these meds l, on top of addiction, they cause all sorts of problems to the liver, kidneys, and in general they aren't any good..
But at the end it comes down to you and to 2 factors
1- the painkillers (like in my case) may not work against the type of pain you are experiencing.
2- how much pain you experience. Trust me, when there's intense pain for a prolonged amount of time, you would wanna inject those pills in your stomach yourself if you could.
The last warning I feel I can comment on is... Once you're in, do not try olto cut them off cold turkey. I mistakenly did it once and ai kid you not, worst weirdest experience I had.... Depression in full swing.
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Hey guys,
How is Dr. Giotikas handling your painkiller/opiod usage?
I'm really afraid of getting addicted to them (since the last several years in Canada they have very serious warnings about using them so the medical professionals here basically never hand them out anymore).
I'm looking for your advice and experiences regarding this topic.
Thank you!
Hey man, when are you coming to Athens?
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Hey James,
Giotikas is on the same line l. As in he'll try to give you the least amount of painkillers necessary to keep your pain level at a touch less than kiserable. When o asked about it he mentioned these meds l, on top of addiction, they cause all sorts of problems to the liver, kidneys, and in general they aren't any good..
But at the end it comes down to you and to 2 factors
1- the painkillers (like in my case) may not work against the type of pain you are experiencing.
2- how much pain you experience. Trust me, when there's intense pain for a prolonged amount of time, you would wanna inject those pills in your stomach yourself if you could.
The last warning I feel I can comment on is... Once you're in, do not try olto cut them off cold turkey. I mistakenly did it once and ai kid you not, worst weirdest experience I had.... Depression in full swing.
Thank you for this information, it is appreciated. I'm glad that Dr. Giotikas is taking the potential for addiction (as well as other health issues) very seriously.
Does he or his nurse assistants strictly monitor your usage? Or is it just like "this guy is in pain, give him more", etc.?
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Hey man, when are you coming to Athens?
I'm 22 years old and still in university (graduating Dec. 2022) so currently don't have the finances for the surgery.
When I do it in several years you guys will have already left Athens, sucks that I wasn't able to join your group, you guys seem very nice and chill.
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Well its more like, they're really stingy with handing you the meds.
Everytime I asked for more tramadol I used to get just like 3 or 4 days worth of.
So I guess that's how..., But now, other than asking about how many I'm taking, there's no special protocol to monitor your intake.
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I'm 22 years old and still in university (graduating Dec. 2022) so currently don't have the finances for the surgery.
When I do it in several years you guys will have already left Athens, sucks that I wasn't able to join your group, you guys seem very nice and chill.
No worries you'll find your group when the time comes. Just concentrate on making/saving as much money as possible. Work 2 jobs if you can. I can't even begin to think what it would be like if I had this done at 25. Go man, try your best.
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SpeedDialer, Bagga, Leonazula99, and OzBoy39,
Knowing what you know now, is there anything you would have done different or wish you had known prior? Are there any "must haves" you would recommend while in Athens during lengthening?
SpeedDialer - I'll be in Athens sometime around December 11.
If I were to do it again, I would bring:
- very large soft ice pads for legs (well I ended up ordering them from the German amazon which was expensive and took a while)
- regular slippers
- warm fuzzy slippers as well
- running shoes
- oversized fanny pack, like way oversized like the male nurse's waist fanny pack
- foldable grabber device
- optional and only helpful very very briefly: a very soft and comfortable vest, not too warm with large arm holes. Reason: avoids shirt arm sleeves, at one point I ended up with one IV needle in each hand and they asked me to put on a shirt when they wanted me to walk in the halls of the hotel
- for the vast majority of patients I think, post surgery pants (pants that have buttons can be torn off that way) are not as useful as I thought because you very very quickly get strong enough to put on regular pants normally
- if you're from the USA: probably good to get the schwab debit card (reimburse ATM fees, there is an ATM at the hospital, don't use the ripoff airport currency exchange) and/or transferwise or revolut debit card (good exchange rates). I don't use them, I use travel credit cards for rewards but the above might be good as a backup. The wealthfront cash management account might be good too for parking cash because it has high APY and doesn't need a phone number to login, only requires you to have authy or google authenticator on your phone/tablet if you set it up that way
- a light jacket might not be enough for december, might want to also bring a heavier jacket or at least use layers. When you go the hospital, the seats outside the doctor's office are very hard and some people lose alot of their glute mass, good to have something soft to sit on like a soft jacket or something
I know that HeightJourney on this forum recommends getting a toilet seat riser (you can buy it from the exercise bike people in Athens for like 45 euros ish, just message them on whatsapp). However, if you're in a handicap room then you can probably just easily transfer via the wheelchair without a toilet seat riser. If you do get the toilet seat riser, I know HeightJourney recommends a little stool for the feet (otherwise feet will hang in air and depending on your legs that can be uncomfortable or no problem)-> however, I have found that I can just use two rolls of toilet paper to rest my feet on when I feel uncomfortable from the legs dangling in the air after sitting on the toilet seat riser
Hey, see you in December! Are you going to be at Montaza hotel?
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Reason: avoids shirt arm sleeves, at one point I ended up with one IV needle in each hand and they asked me to put on a shirt when they wanted me to walk in the halls of the hotel
typo I meant hospital
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Update at 79 days post surgery. 6.3cm distraction
A few practical notes for people from down under.
- x-rays are covered by Medicare
- my GP managed to get 5 sessions of physio bulk billed.
- usual meds (tramadol, Lyrica) are dirt cheap.
First thing to notice is that the.main daily focus isn't the lengthening anymore, but it's gone back to things like work, kids , chores. This is both good and bad. Time management is tricky because of how crippled I am (by that inkeam... Slow).
I drive normally and without any issue whatsoever and that is a massive plus.
I can walk kinda long distances with crutches (as in walking to and into the mall and back) and i do walk unaided occasionally in the house but without exaggerating.
My sleep is getting worse. For some reason I'm restless at night. I get 4 or 5 hours max of sleep and then I have to get up. I then also collapse super tired around lunch time.
My duckass is becoming annoying. It is not painful but I really make an effort to try and control it while I'm walking. Not easy.
My strongest desire is now to finish the lengthening process and start consolidating (basically I'm sick of the crutches, I'm sick of not being able to stand from a low sitting position and of all other movements I can't do).
This last 2 cm are going to be another mental battle. Not against pain , but just wanting to end it all.
Forgot to mention, my nerve pain on my.right leg....still there. Never goes away, but I guess I got numbed to it. We can just coexist together.
My biggest wins since coming back have been
Starting strengthening excercises
Starting hydrotherapy and sauna regularly.
Strengthening you can just feel...it makes you more and more mobile. It is hard because it makes your muscles painful af, but after that phase...you gain back some ROM.
Hydrotherapy and sauna are just "feel good" activities to me. I'll keep doing them until I finish lengthening I guess.
How does the new height feel?
Guess... F.....g great! Not thinking about it anymore when I go out .
With friends and acquaintances, I've been super careful in wearing thin and flat shoes and also I tried to slouch as much as I could on my crutches.
Nobody of the close friends have made weird comments about it.
My wardrobe has officially been retired. Soon I'll have to spend some money and get meself some decent looking suits and clothing in general.
I can already tell that pants are gonna look great.
What else? Despite what many people say here on the forum, I believe the G-nail to be a far superior option than the precice. The weight bearing aspect of it makes the process so much more tolerable.
Every single precice patient in Athens at the time has agreed with that.
Athens... I so miss the weather, I miss the huge buffet breakfast i used to get at Novotel and in a way I miss the "focus" I had at the time towards this process. I was way more diligent with stretching and everything there than I am now. But I guess I'm close to the end and hopefully I can still stick.to it and avoid complications.
That's pretty much it. I better go stretching now.
See y'all past 7cm.
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Update at 79 days post surgery. 6.3cm distraction
A few practical notes for people from down under.
- x-rays are covered by Medicare
- my GP managed to get 5 sessions of physio bulk billed.
- usual meds (tramadol, Lyrica) are dirt cheap.
That's awesome! So you explained to your GP you did LL in Greece and then he helped you get these subscriptions/therapy partially covered?
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Yes I did. And he's helping me squeeze as much as I can from what I'm allowed to.
He's been very curious about it. Not judgemental at all.
Same for the people who did my x-rays (all young guys and girls). They asked me so many questions (maybe they laughed at my back later, but who cares). One of them was actually genuinely interested. Shortish type of guy, I'm pretty sure he'll be on the forum soon.
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What are your thoughts about the nail removal timing?
I think I will most likely do gnail femur nail removal 1 year after the surgery, wait a 1-3 weeks, then do the tibia surgery, then stay in Athens for 5-6 months for precise tibias for 4-5cm, but I'll see what the doctor says.
So the other option I was considering was having the gnail femurs removed + have the tibia nails inserted on the exact same day
But basically, I don't know how easy/difficult it is to deal with both a recovering upper leg (from femur nail removal) and lower leg (newly insert precise into tibias) at the same time or if its not a big deal. I can't seem to find anyone on the forum who knows.
The thing about doing tibias is that it seems like someone can just stretch the tibias with the brace/splints so it may be alright, I'm not sure. I'm gonna ask the doctor about this + I'll ask the doctor on Monday about how much upper leg stretching needs to be done after the femur nail removal surgery
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Man, these are questions that are probably better asked to the doctor.
How do I know?
It may just not be possible to do 2 surgeries in the same day. As 6ounsaid, ask the doc
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What are your thoughts about the nail removal timing?
I think I will most likely do gnail femur nail removal 1 year after the surgery, wait a 1-3 weeks, then do the tibia surgery, then stay in Athens for 5-6 months for precise tibias for 4-5cm, but I'll see what the doctor says.
So the other option I was considering was having the gnail femurs removed + have the tibia nails inserted on the exact same day
But basically, I don't know how easy/difficult it is to deal with both a recovering upper leg (from femur nail removal) and lower leg (newly insert precise into tibias) at the same time or if its not a big deal. I can't seem to find anyone on the forum who knows.
The thing about doing tibias is that it seems like someone can just stretch the tibias with the brace/splints so it may be alright, I'm not sure. I'm gonna ask the doctor about this + I'll ask the doctor on Monday about how much upper leg stretching needs to be done after the femur nail removal surgery
yup, my old message says I'll ask the doc too
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What are your thoughts about the nail removal timing?
I think I will most likely do gnail femur nail removal 1 year after the surgery, wait a 1-3 weeks, then do the tibia surgery, then stay in Athens for 5-6 months for precise tibias for 4-5cm, but I'll see what the doctor says.
So the other option I was considering was having the gnail femurs removed + have the tibia nails inserted on the exact same day
But basically, I don't know how easy/difficult it is to deal with both a recovering upper leg (from femur nail removal) and lower leg (newly insert precise into tibias) at the same time or if its not a big deal. I can't seem to find anyone on the forum who knows.
The thing about doing tibias is that it seems like someone can just stretch the tibias with the brace/splints so it may be alright, I'm not sure. I'm gonna ask the doctor about this + I'll ask the doctor on Monday about how much upper leg stretching needs to be done after the femur nail removal surgery
You really want to be under anesthesia for 6 hours?
Just do tibia 1 or 2 years after femurs and then if you are done with tibia get the nails out like 4 years after initial femur LL
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You really want to be under anesthesia for 6 hours?
Just do tibia 1 or 2 years after femurs and then if you are done with tibia get the nails out like 4 years after initial femur LL
Once time Anesthesia for 6 hours is better or
2 times anesthesia for 3 hours is better
asking a general question
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Once time Anesthesia for 6 hours is better or
2 times anesthesia for 3 hours is better
asking a general question
Definitely the second one. Especially if it‘s a longer time apart. Which nail removal and insertion will be.
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Hey ozboy whant to do gnail too.. do tou think is posible if I do it my myself , just alone, planing to do 10 cm travel 2 weeks and back to my country probably with 15 hours trip.. what do you think?
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You can do it by yourself, yes.
You CANNOT just stay 2 weeks and go away back to your country. Absolutely not recommended and I don't think the doctor allows it too
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Why is that?, Not sure, but before when stryde was on market I visited a doctor and told me that in two weeks is ok to back to your country, betz I think allows you in 3 weeks or less. Do you think that with doctor G is diferent because of nail or any other situation?
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Why is that?, Not sure, but before when stryde was on market I visited a doctor and told me that in two weeks is ok to back to your country, betz I think allows you in 3 weeks or less. Do you think that with doctor G is diferent because of nail or any other situation?
Because you're still at risk of major complications, you're not gonna be mobile almost at all (you can only use the walker at 2 weeks post op), your wounds will probably still be half opened, and your legs swollen and you're gonna need the nurses help for various (many) tasks. and you're not gonna have the energy to do pretty much anything all day long.
Perhaps if you have somebody to take care of you 24/7 or at least frequently... Maybe after 3 or 4 weeks if you have no complications... It may be doable.
That was my experience. Maybe someone else had it easier, but ALL patients I've seen in Greece were exactly like me (if not worse).
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T90 Post-op. 7cm lengthening
It's getting tough. I mean I'm getting stiff. No matter the stretching, pt or walking. After 6cm everything started to tighten up.
- can't walk without crutches. I can limp around a room, but then my quads and knees start to burn.
- nerve pain is there always... It's become like a companion. It's basically like an annoying mother in law. Always present, you can't get rid of her. It always bothers you but it's family and you gotta live with it.
- unfortunately having gotten back to the many jobs I do, my focus isn't anymore on the process and I'm scrambling to do clicks, stretching , hydrotherapy and what not. Brut at least clicks are easy and sometimes I do them in the car in between destinations.
-7 cm are great but my duckass has gotten worst and I think I'm at the same height as I was at 6cm. It doesn't really bother me though. I'll catch up.
- now the big question is. Where do I stop?
- in 2 weeks I'll get to 8cm
- in 4 weeks (precisely at Christmas day) I could get to 9cm.
Physically I can do it, mentally too, but i feel like I'm abusing of the patience of my wife.shes doing a lot to compensate for my "disability".
Tomorrow new X-rays and then another consult with dr G.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel but the road to there is now become very steep. Let's keep grinding
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Do you wanna keep legnthening? If so I say go for it. I've heard of so many people who regret not lengthening more.
But 7cm is still a great increase. I would not go more than 8 tho, as the complications arise exponentially from there.
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You're right. I've read the same too and while I also think 7cm is great and I feel very good about myself already, I know that I may have a little piece of regret if I don't reach 8cm.
Yes I'm going for it. It's only 2 weeks more of lengthening from now
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T90 Post-op. 7cm lengthening
It's getting tough. I mean I'm getting stiff. No matter the stretching, pt or walking. After 6cm everything started to tighten up.
- can't walk without crutches. I can limp around a room, but then my quads and knees start to burn.
- nerve pain is there always... It's become like a companion. It's basically like an annoying mother in law. Always present, you can't get rid of her. It always bothers you but it's family and you gotta live with it.
- unfortunately having gotten back to the many jobs I do, my focus isn't anymore on the process and I'm scrambling to do clicks, stretching , hydrotherapy and what not. Brut at least clicks are easy and sometimes I do them in the car in between destinations.
-7 cm are great but my duckass has gotten worst and I think I'm at the same height as I was at 6cm. It doesn't really bother me though. I'll catch up.
- now the big question is. Where do I stop?
- in 2 weeks I'll get to 8cm
- in 4 weeks (precisely at Christmas day) I could get to 9cm.
Physically I can do it, mentally too, but i feel like I'm abusing of the patience of my wife.shes doing a lot to compensate for my "disability".
Tomorrow new X-rays and then another consult with dr G.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel but the road to there is now become very steep. Let's keep grinding
Have you considered getting nerve decompression surgery? How is your consolidation going?
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You're right. I've read the same too and while I also think 7cm is great and I feel very good about myself already, I know that I may have a little piece of regret if I don't reach 8cm.
Yes I'm going for it. It's only 2 weeks more of lengthening from now
I say that's a great idea. It's always good to know that once you stop lengthening you will feel significantly better each day.
The height is permanent. So another 2 weeks of suffering is easily justifiable.
Kudos on your strong spirit!
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Have you considered getting nerve decompression surgery? How is your consolidation going?
No, not really at this stage. Other than the lingering burning, tingling and annoying shootout of pain I have all my functions and feelings still intact. I've checkd this both with Dr G. In Greece and with my GP here and both agree that there doesn't seem to be any... damage and that it should resolve once I stop lengthening. So I'll get there first an dthen see what happens.
Like for example yesterday I took a break from clicking and even just today, the level of paresthesia that I have is much lower then yesterday.
Fingers crossed it'll go away after I stop
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I say that's a great idea. It's always good to know that once you stop lengthening you will feel significantly better each day.
The height is permanent. So another 2 weeks of suffering is easily justifiable.
Kudos on your strong spirit!
Yes I have that thought in my mind too. It's just seeing the people around me having to struggle doing all the chores and also taking somewhat care of me it's really hard to see. It makes me feel very selfish for what I'm doing (although she's not absolutely putting any pressure on me).
So, we'll just keep going until the end. Whether it's be 8 or 9 I don't know yet. But I'll get to 8cm for sure... Then re assess.
And btw. Life above 170cm... (For the ones that are starting this below) is amazing. It may not be the great 6 foot target, but who cares. I finally feel normal in the height domain. And all trousers fit ok.
I'm so keen to restart proper training and get super freaking fit. One (another) good thing of going through all this is the magnitude of appreciation that I have gained towards having a healthy body. Agility, strength, ROM. As we all need to prioritise our time among various responsibilities in life, I'll make sure that physical health is on top of the ladder together with family. Work can take a few steps down.
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Yes I have that thought in my mind too. It's just seeing the people around me having to struggle doing all the chores and also taking somewhat care of me it's really hard to see. It makes me feel very selfish for what I'm doing (although she's not absolutely putting any pressure on me).
So, we'll just keep going until the end. Whether it's be 8 or 9 I don't know yet. But I'll get to 8cm for sure... Then re assess.
And btw. Life above 170cm... (For the ones that are starting this below) is amazing. It may not be the great 6 foot target, but who cares. I finally feel normal in the height domain. And all trousers fit ok.
I'm so keen to restart proper training and get super freaking fit. One (another) good thing of going through all this is the magnitude of appreciation that I have gained towards having a healthy body. Agility, strength, ROM. As we all need to prioritise our time among various responsibilities in life, I'll make sure that physical health is on top of the ladder together with family. Work can take a few steps down.
Sounds good.
I'm glad you're happy with your new height. Long legs look great in general.
Going to do 8cm Femur myself in a year or two. Saving up. Been planning on Giotikas for some time.
Do you still vouch for Giotikas having almost gone through with it all? He interest me the most outside of Paley.
He seems very competent. The only thing that worried me was the death case at his clinic. Did you ask him about this?
Must feel crazy having grown 8cm just within a few weeks. Sounds like a dream come true.
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Thanks.
Yes i definitely still vouch for him after having gone through. I think he himself and the team of nurses/pt provide a comprehensive package that covers all the criticalities related to the process.
Plus if you do it in summer, the nice warm weather helps you mentally.
I didn't end up asking him about the death case, but one of the nurses who now left slipped some info as in this guy was difficult to deal with as in was sort of refusing meds (or not taking them....not sure) and that's all he sort of told me half mouthed.
So yeah, it's definitely an unfortunate event but from my experience, I couldn't fault them to be honest.
I found their approach to be very super conservative in any aspect a of the process... Sometimes too conservative I believe. But I guess I see their points of better being safe than sorry.
8cm... Yes life changing. I can't describe in words. You will understand when you get there. It erases all the pains, struggles, that we go through in a second. Among the best decisions of my life so far.
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Thanks.
Yes i definitely still vouch for him after having gone through. I think he himself and the team of nurses/pt provide a comprehensive package that covers all the criticalities related to the process.
Plus if you do it in summer, the nice warm weather helps you mentally.
I didn't end up asking him about the death case, but one of the nurses who now left slipped some info as in this guy was difficult to deal with as in was sort of refusing meds (or not taking them....not sure) and that's all he sort of told me half mouthed.
So yeah, it's definitely an unfortunate event but from my experience, I couldn't fault them to be honest.
I found their approach to be very super conservative in any aspect a of the process... Sometimes too conservative I believe. But I guess I see their points of better being safe than sorry.
8cm... Yes life changing. I can't describe in words. You will understand when you get there. It erases all the pains, struggles, that we go through in a second. Among the best decisions of my life so far.
That's really nice to hear. I am definitely aiming to do this in the Summer whenever I am doing it over there. I can't wait...!
I really appreciate the details you provided on Giotikas and his team. I am even more assured of his competence now.
Now that you're almost done with femurs. Do you think Tibia surgery will ever be on the table for you?
I myself am considering quadrilateral. But will fully finish the femur surgery before even considering moving onto Tibias.
And the way you describe the height gain sounds awesome, bro. I'm happy for you. I will soon be there in Greece in the same shoes as you are now.
This post is making me consider 9cm femurs even.
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What kind payments option Giotikas Offers? I mean did you have to pay whole amount 4x xxx€ beforehand? Or possible to pay part of it later? Possible to pay in cash (i mean paper money) in hotel?
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Maybe better ask him through the website email.
I paid all in advance as requested on the website.
I would be surprised if he'd allow anyone to pay in installments after the surgery. But by all means, feel free to ask him.
Paying 48K euro or so in cash at the hotel, as much as it makes me think of all the most badass movies from the early 200, (thinking ocean11 or similar), I would say is at the least unadvisable.
Anyway, good luck with all this.
I
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8.2cm lengthening DONE. 105 days Post Op. Let's start recovering now
Today is my last day of lengthening. My last few clicks to get me at around 8.2cm.
I just come back from dinner outside with wife and kid.
I definitely don't feel short anymore. I am perfectly blending with the rest of the men in the restaurant.
It would probably get even better when I fix my duck ass problem which seems to eat away about 1 to 1.5cm.
But I must say, as many before me, that this has definitely cured my thoughts about my height.
I'm not tall by any mean (with sneakers I'm about 174cm) but just being average from the previous 164cm, it simply removed the thought.
It's funny how my brain still hasn't adjusted to the comparison with other people. I mean, when I'm about to cross someone who looks tall, from a distance I would guess that I'm shorter, but then as I approach and cross the other person, I realise that I'm at the same height. And that is really rewarding of all the pains and struggles.
Anyway, I'm stopping at 8.2cm although I could have easily gone to 9 and perhaps more, but my life here is so busy between work and family that I can't afford anymore time for this.
String suggestion: if you can, don't take any serious commitment for the entire lengthening duration. You'll regret it as I am doing now having to juggle myself between 2 jobs.
Moving on, my physical condition is as such:
- I can walk well with crutches. I can endure quite a bit of walking at once (perhaps 200 300 metres. I can go grocery shopping holding on a trolley.
- I can do baby steps without crutches, but my TFL and glutes are so weak that are stopping me from walking properly. Plus if I do too much unaided walking, my quads hurt and I'll then be bed or chair ridden for a day or two slowing down my recovery. This happened by not doing much excercises during the day because of working long long hours . Keep this in mind when you go through this procedure. Start working on your muscles from day 1 after the op. Not only stretching, but strengthening is key.
- my duckass is quite pronounced,.but I don't see 8t as a big issue. I feel it will be ok now that I'll stop lengthening.
- I am somewhat addicted to tramadol. No, I don't crave it, but when I skip a dose (I take 2x 50mg per day which is not too much), my mood goes down down.
- nerve pain (my biggest issue since reaching 3cm)...all of sudden disappeared after I passed 7cm. I have done anything specific for it. It just subsided on its own in the last couple of weeks. Doctor said... " The body has an incredible capacity to heal...".
- my sleep and energy levels are not great even though I am finally starting to sleep on my side.
On the social side...
My wife...having a big bloody mouth, she told pretty much all of her (our) friends about it. So... I owned it and tried to be super forth coming.
Tell you what? Guys don't really care to be honest. Once I mentioned it and gave a bit of a summary (couple of sentences only..) then we moved talking of other things. But all the girls have given me what I felt were very genuine compliments and we're wayore interested in the procedure, the details, the feeling, struggles. I had good conversations with all of them and never felt any sort of negative of judgemental feelings from any of them.
So yeah, let's now move on to the consolidation phase and see how long it will take to reach a level of unaided walking.
Based on how I feel now my best guess it's that it'll take me at least 4 weeks.
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Hi Ozboy39,
have you ever experienced knee pain during your lengthening period?
Alle the best!
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Congrats on reaching the end of your journey. Do you feel that if you only had one job it would have been more manageable?
Some people need to be explicitly told that certain things are secret. Did you tell you wife to keep it quiet and she talked anyway?
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Yes 100%.
I had severe knee pain I think it was around 4 or 5 cm that stopped me from walking at all for a week or two.
And I do get some "milder" knee pain now as well especially during the morning when I wake up. But it disappears as the day goes on
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Congrats on reaching the end of your journey. Do you feel that if you only had one job it would have been more manageable?
Some people need to be explicitly told that certain things are secret. Did you tell you wife to keep it quiet and she talked anyway?
Thank you.
Yes, one job easier for sure. But it really depends on the commitment you have to put in and whether or not you can give yourself the free time (physically and mentally todo your routines of stretching, clicking, excercises ...)
Yes you're right. I should have been very very explicit. I was not, I thought it was obvious considered I hadn't 5old anybody and considered we had spoken about , but...now it happened and I can just deal with it.
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Congrats on finishing lengthening! The hardest part is now over for you 8)
Thank you so much for the well done diary - it's very useful for all future LLers especially those who want to go to Athens. Hope you keep updating us on your recovery.
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Thank you Thankscience for the kind words.
I'll keep updating as the recovery journey unfolds.
Time to go to Physio now.
Btw, yesterday felt pretty good and walked in the house for the entire afternoon without crutches (limped around but still ...progress).
Today I'm sore af (a good sore though)
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so looks like Montaza hotel is the way to go? i'm just a gamer. Give me a room i'm good. ;D
And i like the buffet breakfast and dinner after.
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Where have I ever said that?
If something I would tell you the opposite. Stay away from Montaza if you can afford it.
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How’s your recovery going now mr Oz?
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It’s going through ups and downs.
I’m at my second week post lengthening and this is what I feel
-less stiffness for sure especially on my knees
-I am regaining motion in many ways. I can crawl pretty easily. It’s easier to go from a laying position to a standing position
-my sleep is good now.
- I feel my duckass is slowly receding.
That’s where the good things end. For the bad things:
-my quads and adductors hurt badly. This goes hand in hand with my physical activity. Every time I go to Physio I get so sore the days after that I basically have to stop every movement I’m doing. I’m considering dropping Physio to once a week or dropping it completely as I was doing I much more activity before between cycling, strength and hydrotherapy. Now I can’t do any.
-energy levels are way off still compared to where they were before.
-I’m still dependent on tramadol.
When my legs don’t hurt, I can walk without crutches in the house and small distances outside (gone from the car to the post office and back). But I look like a penguin
To be honest I’m not happy and I’m also a bit frustrated with the progress. I thought stopping the lengthening would have an almost immediate effect on everything but as of now, I’m still very much in pain. Tomorrow I’ll go get my final X-rays (final as in at final length).
All good things in life require patience. And patience we shall have then
Sorry for the rant everyone. I just needed to vent today
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Stay strong brother!!!
At which length have you noticed an exponentially increase in pain/complications?
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Thanks. I will for sure.
At 3cm started nerve pain that lasted until about 7cm
At 6cm I noticed that I started to be really tight and if I forget to stretch one day I get very very stiff.
After 7cm I had a combination of stiffness, restlessness, pains of various type which made me want to stop every 2 or 3 days.
So I’d say the journey from 6 to 8 was the most problematic
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I can understand your frustration, mate. At the tail end of such a demanding procedure you must really long for some relief at this point.
Remember it will always get better with time, there is no exception. So just keep your head up. Your past and future self is proud of you right now. You're doing great.
How is the comradery with the other patients at Athens BJR? And how would you rate the nurses and stretching practitioners?
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Thanks Will. Appreciated. Your words and the words of many other members here have been of great help throughout the journey.
Moment s gone now. Back on track. We re still in the fourth innings and the game isn’t finished yet.
Let’s push through to the end.
Btw, my final X-rays here https://imgur.com/a/0jCnXoo
0.5mm discrepancy. I guess my lengthening isn’t quite over yet.
About eh comradely. It was good. In some way it was great but it really depends who you find there. I was lucky to find my group of 2-3 people that I bonded with and hung out with. I know now the guys over there have bonded even further and started organising lots of activities so yeah, I think that’s great.
Nurses and physio there too I found them to be competent and caring. Never have I felt unsupported or not taken care of. I guess my only argument would be about the focus of the physio sessions. All stretching and no strengthening. I would have liked a mix of the two.
But overall I think is a great team of people they’ve got going on there.
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Hi Ozboy,
What was the process like contacting Dr. Giotikas for you? Do you have to go for an in-person consultation before the surgery? And how long did it take from time of consultation to surgery date?
Thank you
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The process is straight forward. If you go to their website you can either book a free 15 mins consultation or a 45 mins or 1 hour paid one.
I did the free one first… and then the paid one next. He explained the ins and outs and I have asked all the relevant questions. Given my background of no health problems and relatively healthy living, the Dr did not require me to do an in person consultation.
Nor did I do any X-ray prior to going to Greece.
I had initially booked the surgery for November 2022 with 6 months in advance.
Then circumstances changed and I had the opportunity to anticipate as much as possible, so I reached out to them again and asked when was the soonest I could do the surgery. At the time this was like 5 weeks away.
Waiting time I believe is highly dependent on their workload so it may vary.
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Hello, how are you doing? Are u happy with the result?
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Congrats on finishing OZboy!
We finished at same length - 8.2cm. But I finished in NYE so very fresh.
I’m sure now you are consolidating you will get better exponentially so good luck for rest and enjoy the fruition.
Sorry your wife told your friends. Personally I would die of embarrassment I haven’t told a single person.
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Hi Growth Journey,
Yes man, congratulations to you too. We made it. I feel great about the new height (although I’m still technically below average). How about you?
I’m at the beginning of Consolidation week 4. 132 days post op.
I wouldn’t say I’m getting exponentially better overall. In some areas I do, in some others I’m improving slowly (frustrating).
Specifically, I feel that the tightness and the flexibility of my legs have improved greatly. I can touch my legs and feel that all the major muscle groups are starting to feel softer. This is also confirmed by the fact that it’s easier to seat in a chair that presses against your hammies like sitting in the car.
I can now lay completely flat with both my legs extended and touching each other and that feels comfortable too. I can actually cross them over and that feels good.
I’m also regaining, albeit slowly, flexibility on my quads. My goal there is to be able to sit on my heels (mind you I was able to do a hero pose before surgery… so sitting on my heels is still so way off pre surgery levels).
What is instead going very slow (although the doctor told me that probably my expectations are off) is the walking (unaided) and strength regain. My glutee and hips are very weak and I see very little improvements day by day.
My quads hurt at each step I take unaided. When I go to PT , they work me out hard and the soreness from it stays for about 4 days. Now that I had a break from it during new year’s eve, today (5th day after last session) I walked unaided the entire morning even though it hurt me a lot and im afraid tomorrow I’ll be sore again.
But anyway, today I managed to walk unaided In the house to make breakfast and do some work things, then I went outside to grab a coffee where I probably did about 100 mt unaided and last I spent the rest of the morning chasing after the little one. Then I took a nap and when I woke up I was really sore(still am now).
I believe it is improving week by week but I’m finding it really hard to gauge whether I should push harder or back off and let the muscles rest.
Doctor is telling me to take it easy and mostly use crutches still.
PT is asking me to push harder and try to walk without crutches as much as possible.
I just don’t understand if this sharp pain I feel on my quads and adductor is normal or not.
My walking gait unaided is absolutely terrible, but if I concentrate and in my head decide to bear the pain I can improve it for a few steps.
I will push harder in the next few weeks and see what that does.
Last on the negative is that I can still feel that my bone is far from consolidating. How? Well I still need to be careful when I do rotating motions as I can feel my leg twisting still. I haven’t had any more accidental clicks yet (I’m not even trying to ) but I believe if I wanted to click it’d still be easy.
That adds a bit of a mental barrier when doing movements in bed , or getting in and out of a car.
Back on some positives
My walking with crutches is really good and it gets better every week. But also the crutches are getting more and more frustrating to use as time goes by and I resume my usual life activities.
I also noticed that when I do the treadmill at the gym (using my hands to support part of my wait (I’m recreating the Alter-G system manually lol) I can walk very very well). So hopefully this is too just a matter of time and excercise.
Another part which has been very positive is that I’ve gone off tramadol completely and I’m past the withdrawal period which was quite horrible to be honest.
I’m still taking lyrica regularly because one of the consequences of trying to walk unaided and putting weight on my leg (in this case my right leg) is that it inflames it to the point that I get a mild nerve pain after.
My last point is a reflection of one subtle but important realisation and mental change that this whole process has generated. The appreciation of health. “Mens sana in corpore sano” (a healthy mind in a healthy body). This surgery is kind of humbling in some sense, it teaches us the value of discipline, time, patience, health. A healthy body wants to do 100 things. A sick one wants but one (this too a citation from one philosopher… can’t remember who).
(In some way, I feel like I am and I will be a better person getting out of this and not only because of the increased height, but also and especially because of what this process (the struggles) has taught me)
And to quote a friend who’s not on this forum but that did Gnail in Greece at my same time and recovered much faster and better than myself….”I finally feel I’m an adult among people”
I second that feeling 100%
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Do you think your slow recovery with walking is consistent among other patients. Generally, do you feel as if Dr. G is a good doctor given he's on e of the few ones that actually offer a weight bearing nail? Also, is there no way to lock the clicking mechanism after your desired lengthening?
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Well, I don’t really think the doctor has much to do with my recovery to be honest.
I’ve seen and I am in contact with an number of patients who had Gnail and we are all different. Many are better than me.
I think all has started going south for me when I strained my quad right after surgery. That has really took a hit on my PT and excercises whilst I was there.
No, there is no way to lock the nail but it isn’t a big deal. I just mentioned it as “one of the observations “
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deleted post
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Well, I don’t really think the doctor has much to do with my recovery to be honest.
I’ve seen and I am in contact with an number of patients who had Gnail and we are all different. Many are better than me.
I think all has started going south for me when I strained my quad right after surgery. That has really took a hit on my PT and excercises whilst I was there.
No, there is no way to lock the nail but it isn’t a big deal. I just mentioned it as “one of the observations “
Hey, mate. Your recovery going any better?
The package included 4 PT sessions per week at 'Athens BJR', if not mistaken? Were you able to buy 3 additional PT sessions a week if you wanted to?(So you could have one each day)
Also, how is the new height treating you? Any interesting or funny thing you've experienced that you want to share ::)?
Right now it looks like I'll be able to do this in 2025. I have some saving to do first. But all is going well.
Thanks for an inspiring journal
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Hi Will,
Recovery is progressing well albeit slowly. I’m looking forward to a new round of X-rays next week to see how the consolidation of the bones is going.
I can feel something changing in the way my legs feel at every step. My head telling me that the bone is taking over in weight bearing my body. It feels a little painful each step, but a good type of pain (hard to put in words). Regaining some side strength (abduction) but still not walking much unaided.
In regards to PT in Athens, I don’t think you can purchase more sessions at the same clinic on the 3 days off. Maybe you could hire an external PT to come to your hotel but ..:I personally don’t think you need to as you can do plenty of excercises and stretches by yourself on those days… and also don’t forget that you’re gonna need at least 1 day off per week to let your legs rest.
My new height is great. I love comparing myself to my wife and joke her about how small a midget she is now in comparison to me. She hates it!!! Guess we’re not gonna have $3X anytime soon.
I definitely feel more comfortable in social situations, but let’s not forget that I’m still going out with crutches so I haven’t fully experienced the gains. Those are for the months to come.
Good on you. 2025 is still a long way away. Hopefully by then, some new weight bearing nail with better features will come out and the surgeons and PT clinics would have further refined the process.
It’s exciting to live in an age where this type of body modification is possible. We should feel lucky in a way! (Although I guess we could also feel unlucky for the short stature we were born with… ah whatever. Let’s look at the glass half full)
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"when I do rotating motions as I can feel my leg twisting still"
This is what I fear the most in my lengthening. Im nervous it will be a long time into consolidation until this stops. Because theres really no way to walk normally until this gets resolved.
How is your status with this today?
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That’s definitely one of the things that I feel changing as in getting less and less pronounced.
But as I had mentioned, I remember how weird it used to feel the first few weeks. After that, you sort of don’t even notice it anymore. Not sure why is that. I can just tell you that after a while I stoped thinking about it until you mentioned it a few days ago
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That’s definitely one of the things that I feel changing as in getting less and less pronounced.
But as I had mentioned, I remember how weird it used to feel the first few weeks. After that, you sort of don’t even notice it anymore. Not sure why is that. I can just tell you that after a while I stoped thinking about it until you mentioned it a few days ago
Good to know it tampers down. Yeah its the pinwheel effect and also there just being some horizontal plane movement. Like if you sway your body standing from one side to the other theres definitely a bit of play between your bones and the nail. Even though its very little, you body needs a rock solid foundation to really be able to walk normally.
Once your consolidation nears completion I bet your gait gets a whole lot better.
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5 Months Post Op. 7 weeks into consolidation
These below are my X-rays from yesterday
https://imgur.com/a/kkpudaP
Kinda slow but it has definitely progressed from last month.
I need to eat more that's for sure.
I'll try to follow a fellow LL friend and load up on calories and proteins. See if that gives me a boost.
Now, regardless of the bone consolidation which I believe to be a factor in my recovery, below is a summary of the main traits as of today:
- walking unaided improved as in the Trendelenburg gait is improving as I do more excercises aimed at regaining muscles in the glute area. I'll try to take a video later and post it here too.
-Ive had a massive improvement in my sleep pattern being able to go almost one week with uninterrupted sleep throughout each night.
- Agility and stiffness are improving too. Slowly but steadily.
- Proximal screw irritating my hips seems to have very slightly improved. I can raise my leg at about 90 deg and it doesn't catch very often.
- Energy levels are going up as well. Not much but I'd say I feel I am at 50% my pre-op levels.
- Physio is still hard. I'm still unable to really do one pegged excercises or squatting of any sort so that limits greatly the things we can do.
A few bad points to notice:
- my consolidation is definitely slower than usual. Maybe it is the age. Maybe it is just me. But the doctor didn't seem concerned last time.around. any advise to speed it up is welcome.
- I keep overdoing and getting injured in my muscles. Sunday I've been out all day. I probably walked on and off crutches for about 2 or 3km... In the evening I got out of the car and felt an incredible 8/10 pain on my right knee and quad. I honestly thought I had broken the distal.screws.as it was so intense.
Then got the x-ray, checked in with physio and realised I "simply" both overstretched and overexcercised my right quad. Whatever... I'm getting used to it， but a very annoying thing is that this episode brought back.some nerve pain in my shin.
Overall things are improving, but way slower than I had anticipated. This is a problem in regards to work. I hate being seen always with crutches. Too many questions (and lies from my end).
Dating and S&X life... No, joking. I'm not after that but im sure I've regained your attention now.
Not much more. Focus on this 5th month post op will be on speeding up consolidation through nutrition and exercise.
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Hi OzBoy, thank you for the great level of detail you are providing. It's unbelievably helpful. Few questions that I wanted to ask at this point of your journey:
1. Would you still advise to your slightly younger self to go through with the LL? Since dating is not your priority and all, did you get enough satisfaction from other aspects of life that makes it totally worth it?
2. You might have answered it, but at what point were you able to start getting by inside your house or office at least somewhat unaided? Would it be possible to say arrive to work on crutches and then get around with occasional (<10m) walks to the restroom and such?
3. Looking back, would you advise to shorten the lengthening to avoid some of the recovery complications? I read somewhere on this forum that 6cm seems to be the optimum. I completely get the pros and cons here, give me all 15cm if possible, but it looks like the last 2cm cost dearly. What is your personal opinion on this?
Thank you for your responses!
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Hi OzBoy, thank you for the great level of detail you are providing. It's unbelievably helpful. Few questions that I wanted to ask at this point of your journey:
1. Would you still advise to your slightly younger self to go through with the LL? Since dating is not your priority and all, did you get enough satisfaction from other aspects of life that makes it totally worth it?
2. You might have answered it, but at what point were you able to start getting by inside your house or office at least somewhat unaided? Would it be possible to say arrive to work on crutches and then get around with occasional (<10m) walks to the restroom and such?
3. Looking back, would you advise to shorten the lengthening to avoid some of the recovery complications? I read somewhere on this forum that 6cm seems to be the optimum. I completely get the pros and cons here, give me all 15cm if possible, but it looks like the last 2cm cost dearly. What is your personal opinion on this?
Thank you for your responses!
Hi GlobalBlue,
Thanks for the kind words.
1- YES 100% and I would advise to do it as early as possible. Aside from dating, it’s all the other interactions (work and social). To quote a friend of mine who underwent LL, I now feel like I am an adult among other adults. Before, at 164cm, the very first thing that stands out about you is your height…. And then you have to work extra hard to highlight your other qualities. Right now… I feel absolutely comfortable and amazing around people.
2- me personally I started taking steps (<10mt or so) in the house in my last couple of cm (the hardest ones). I think it’s possible to do wat you say, but it does depend a lot on whether you encounter any complication along the journey. You can read many people here walking unaided just a few weeks post op.
3-it’s hard to answer this right now. If in the next few months/year I’ll recover to a level that allows me decent athletic abilities than starting at my height I think I had sort of no choice if I wanted to have a meaningful impact on my height
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How much did you lengthen in the end ozboy? I kinda missed that post
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8.2cm
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Before, at 164cm, the very first thing that stands out about you is your height…. And then you have to work extra hard to highlight your other qualities.
This hits so close that it hurts ;D ;D ;D
The other way around is also true. During the COVID there was a lot of remote working and many of the people had met the first time after having a considerable time spent interacting online. It's always a big and almost palpable surprise surprise for both sides. In my place of work, it's like they notoriously have all the tall people gathered up in here, or maybe the avg height is just going up. It's especially terrible when occasional almost everyone is at 6"+, it really does look and feels ridiculous at that point.
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This hits so close that it hurts ;D ;D ;D
The other way around is also true. During the COVID there was a lot of remote working and many of the people had met the first time after having a considerable time spent interacting online. It's always a big and almost palpable surprise surprise for both sides. In my place of work, it's like they notoriously have all the tall people gathered up in here, or maybe the avg height is just going up. It's especially terrible when occasional almost everyone is at 6"+, it really does look and feels ridiculous at that point.
100%
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Hey, OzBoy. Thanks for answering my questions above.
We indeed are grateful that you share this experience in such detail.
Hope your recovery is going good, bro.
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Thank you Will. Appreciated!
Recovery is …. progressing!
Im starting to walk almost all day around the office unassisted. It’s a kind of an effort but im so sick of the constant ticking sound of the crutches against a hard floor.
Fingers crossed my bone healing speeds up too.
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7 months Post op. 3 months into consolidation
Recovery is slow and tedious. But the new height, new wardrobe and social interactions are great and I couldn't be happier. For the first time in my life, last week I went and spent a few hundred dollars on new jeans, joggers and everything..
Size W30,L30 fits great... Maybe a touch too short. Size W30L32 fits so good too (perhaps a touch too long). But that feels so good. Buying shoes without having to worry about how they'll feel with lifts... I can't even begin to tell you how good that is.
I am crutch free every day. But I walk badly. I limp and sway and the improvements in that area are so slow. My hip flexors are really hard to release. I also have problems in the office sitting. I get super sore after 30 mins sitting... So I use o standing desk... But then I get sore standing ...so yeah. Overall not an ideal situation.
Mind you though, I recently changed job so I'm stuck in the office for about 8 to 10 hours a day... Plus another one in the car and I'm barely doing any stretching... So yeah, all things considered, the progress I'm getting isn't bad.
I'm averaging between 3000 and 4000 steps daily and above 5000 on weekends. After which, I get super sore but still able to be at work without crutches.
My consolidation is slow (it has always been since the first X-ray) but it is happening indeed. I'm just still afraid of doing many lateral rotational movements to avoid doing any damage to the bone.
Given my progress I would estimate to be back to a normal walking gait in another 6.months or so. Perhaps even longer. But it's ok... As long as I can function normally on a daily basis.
I'm going to PT twice a week and we're progressing with weights every week. Nothing close to normal adult levels but it's good to restart deadlifting and half squatting.
The new bio mechanics of my body feels so weird though. And right now... I'm so far away from any sort of agility excercises. I can barely kick a ball.
But again, assuming the progress isn't hindered by some complication, things should only improve from here and at the end I would have not only gained height, but a huge amount of self control, patience and discipline. Mental discipline which will serve me well in the future.
I'll take some videos of my walking soon and post it here so to show what is my walking level right now.
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7 months Post op. 3 months into consolidation
Recovery is slow and tedious. But the new height, new wardrobe and social interactions are great and I couldn't be happier. For the first time in my life, last week I went and spent a few hundred dollars on new jeans, joggers and everything..
Size W30,L30 fits great... Maybe a touch too short. Size W30L32 fits so good too (perhaps a touch too long). But that feels so good. Buying shoes without having to worry about how they'll feel with lifts... I can't even begin to tell you how good that is.
I am crutch free every day. But I walk badly. I limp and sway and the improvements in that area are so slow. My hip flexors are really hard to release. I also have problems in the office sitting. I get super sore after 30 mins sitting... So I use o standing desk... But then I get sore standing ...so yeah. Overall not an ideal situation.
Mind you though, I recently changed job so I'm stuck in the office for about 8 to 10 hours a day... Plus another one in the car and I'm barely doing any stretching... So yeah, all things considered, the progress I'm getting isn't bad.
I'm averaging between 3000 and 4000 steps daily and above 5000 on weekends. After which, I get super sore but still able to be at work without crutches.
My consolidation is slow (it has always been since the first X-ray) but it is happening indeed. I'm just still afraid of doing many lateral rotational movements to avoid doing any damage to the bone.
Given my progress I would estimate to be back to a normal walking gait in another 6.months or so. Perhaps even longer. But it's ok... As long as I can function normally on a daily basis.
I'm going to PT twice a week and we're progressing with weights every week. Nothing close to normal adult levels but it's good to restart deadlifting and half squatting.
The new bio mechanics of my body feels so weird though. And right now... I'm so far away from any sort of agility excercises. I can barely kick a ball.
But again, assuming the progress isn't hindered by some complication, things should only improve from here and at the end I would have not only gained height, but a huge amount of self control, patience and discipline. Mental discipline which will serve me well in the future.
I'll take some videos of my walking soon and post it here so to show what is my walking level right now.
Good to hear of your success, man. I can't imagine the feeling growing that much at adult age. Must feel fantastic(besides the temporary complications ;) )
I keep coming back to this forum solely for your journal at this point. Cheers bro
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Thank you Will.
Yes it does feel fantastic indeed. And at the same time, one thing that I believe many people who've gone through this and struggled a bit acquire is the appreciation for being healthy.
Anyhow, my X-rays 3 months into consolidation
https://imgur.com/a/Nw8UbSE
Takeaways are...
1. Bone is growing (slowly on my right leg)
2. One of the screws near my right knee has bent. Doc says not to worry too much but I need to take it easy with walking and excercising in general.
3. Nails are ever so slightly bent too. Nothing to worry about but it shows that a regime of 3000 to 5000 steps a day Monday to Friday and about 5000 to 10000 on weekends can I reduce some potential fatigue in the hardware.
And he sort of guesstimate another 2 to 3 months to see a full consolidation in both legs.
The struggle continues but as mentioned at the beginning, the new height makes up for it everyday.
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Hey Ozboy, thanks so much for taking the time to contribute to this forum, wishing you all the best in your recovery.
As a fellow Australian, any specific advice or issues in getting the surgery done? How were the long distance flights to and from Europe, getting through the airports, I’m assuming exchange rates led to increase costs, have you found a local doctor to work with while back in aus? etc.
I’m getting surgery start of 2024 but it just seems like alot more issues to consider being from Australia…
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Hey buddy,
Thanks for that.
My first advice we come from such far a distance is to do whatever you can to book a biz class return flight.
Getting through airports was kind of a breeze when you're on a wheelchair. At each airport the staff were super helpful and carried me and my luggage around. I had zero problems there.
Re the exchange rate i do remember that by the time you converted your expenses from EUR to AUD things started to get expensive, but we are indeed spending about 100K overall so... Not a big deal overall
I am only working with my GP and a general physiotherapist. None of them had any prior experience or exposure to LL.
The GP role is kind of a supporting role. He got the report from the doc from Greece and then just kept monitoring me throughout the months. Physio is just tailoring and adjusting standard rehab routines to my condition after reading and researching about it. So 0verall no big dramas.
After doing the same routine day in day out in Greece for more than 3 months, you sort of become the expert of your body and already know what you should and shouldn't do.
So yeah, i wouldn't stress much about the distance.
Where are you planning on doing it?
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Hey Oz,
Life back to pretty much normal now? When you planning on taking out nail?
Also, were you able to walk quite well after 3 weeks post OP?
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Hi Kanye,
Sort of. When I say normal i mean i can operate more or less normally without having to rely on crutches... However, right now I have the agility and strength of a sedentary 90 yr old.
My Xrays are looking good where the bone ends have finally reached each other but they aren't yet calcified.
Doc estimated another 2 to 3 months for full consolidation (my bones have been slow growing from day one).
I definitely couldn't walk normally 3 weeks after lengthening. Even now i don't walk "normal". I can walk, but it's noticeable by everybody that i got some issue going on.
It's improving on a weekly basis but slowly. If I push too hard with walking or exercising, i get really sore.
So yeah, still going through the process, but life as in the basic daily functions are back to normal.
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Very helpful man, thanks so much for your reply. Thanks for sharing with everyone too. I was planning to do through Donghoon lee in South Korea due to travel distance being less, but your diary is potentially changing my mind as Donghoon is booked out for ages. I was worried about the long flight back from Europe or US but seems like you navigated that pretty well. Note I’m only doing 4cm (I 100% know that is enough for me and all I need), so my recovery should hopefully be a little quicker.
I’m from Melbourne by the way. Great to hear another aussies journey…. Please continually keep us updated. Thanks again
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Good to hear. Glad if I can help with my experience.
Man, 4 cm is a little over a month of lengthening. Not even the time to enjoy Greece lol.
Yeah I'm sure you'll be much quicker in recovering.
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I can't imagine 'enjoying Greece' while lengthening tbh. Now I might have a skewed perspective as I only completed surgery last week but the idea of going out sightseeing etc seems so far off from my reality right now...it takes all my strength just to get to the PT sessions, do my stretches, click, and just general surviving as a guy without any use of his legs where even basic tasks takes 10x as long as they did before.
Does it get any better? :S Don't get me wrong I'm still glad to be doing the surgery but when I hear people talking about going out to restaurants, bars, the beach etc I just can't imagine it...
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Sure it gets better. You only 1 week post op. You're in the midst of the worst time period. I'm sure in a couple of weeks from now you'll start to think differently.
Provided you're on a gnail. If you're on precise...well then you're stuck on a wheel chair for a few months
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Sure it gets better. You only 1 week post op. You're in the midst of the worst time period. I'm sure in a couple of weeks from now you'll start to think differently.
Provided you're on a gnail. If you're on precise...well then you're stuck on a wheel chair for a few months
Yeah I'm on gnail. Clicking on the left leg is extremely painful and I've never managed to do that by myself, need the nurse to come help me.
Then I see people posting they do all 15 clicks in a few mins with no pain and then hit the beach after, feels like a different world. I guess I'll just hope it gets better!
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If it helps try go watch the videos i made on page 2 or 3...
I had problems clicking with what the nurses call "conventional" technique with your legs spread on a pillow and you pushing the knee down. It never worked for me.
Then i worked onto he clicking myself and changed to a different technique which made clicking super easy. Check the videos and perhaps try for yourself.
Slowly....very slowly is the key to avoid pain.
Plus it's only the first week. It indeed is painful. But it gets way better.
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If it helps try go watch the videos i made on page 2 or 3...
I had problems clicking with what the nurses call "conventional" technique with your legs spread on a pillow and you pushing the knee down. It never worked for me.
Then i worked onto he clicking myself and changed to a different technique which made clicking super easy. Check the videos and perhaps try for yourself.
Slowly....very slowly is the key to avoid pain.
Plus it's only the first week. It indeed is painful. But it gets way better.
Just tried your video. Managed to click my right leg by myself although that's always been the easier leg (still, first time I've clicked alone, so that's progress!).
Left leg still hit a wall of resistance and pain. :(
Do you know if the Dr will provide stronger pain meds to get over this initial clicking period? Or if there's some backup plan in these cases where the clicking causes immense pain? At this point I'd be quite happy for them to just sedate me and click my left leg while I'm asleep...would that option be entertained? I guess the nurses that visit would be able to do the injection if so?
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Where is the pain? Hip and groin area? And also, is the pain occurring whilst trying to reach the clicking point or is it painful when it clicks?
If the first, try easing into the rotation very...very slowly. I mean... Really slooowllly.
Start twisting, and as soon as it starts hurting a little bit.... Hold it right there in that spot of initial pain for 20, 30seconds...as long as it takes for the pain to subside. Then push a little further and stop as soon as you feel pain again...repeat until it clicks.
In 90% Of cases this pain is due to the muscles fighting that movement... As if you were trying to do a split. If you're able to relax, the muscles will let go. For me... It was a matter of holding the leg for ages twisted at an angle where I felt a level of pain that I could tolerate...and then progressing when the pain goes down.
Also watch your femur and how it rotates. Sometimes I was just in a wrong angle and not really rotating the femur (imagine the nail into the bone and try to follow it's axis).
In any case, i did hear about some patient having to be sedated for some clicking session but i think it's quite an extreme case. Ask the doctor or the nurses. See what they think.
Please try the approach above. That is what did it for me. Slow...super slow, advance millimeters at a time...
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Where is the pain? Hip and groin area? And also, is the pain occurring whilst trying to reach the clicking point or is it painful when it clicks?
If the first, try easing into the rotation very...very slowly. I mean... Really slooowllly.
Start twisting, and as soon as it starts hurting a little bit.... Hold it right there in that spot of initial pain for 20, 30seconds...as long as it takes for the pain to subside. Then push a little further and stop as soon as you feel pain again...repeat until it clicks.
In 90% Of cases this pain is due to the muscles fighting that movement... As if you were trying to do a split. If you're able to relax, the muscles will let go. For me... It was a matter of holding the leg for ages twisted at an angle where I felt a level of pain that I could tolerate...and then progressing when the pain goes down.
Also watch your femur and how it rotates. Sometimes I was just in a wrong angle and not really rotating the femur (imagine the nail into the bone and try to follow it's axis).
In any case, i did hear about some patient having to be sedated for some clicking session but i think it's quite an extreme case. Ask the doctor or the nurses. See what they think.
Please try the approach above. That is what did it for me. Slow...super slow, advance millimeters at a time...
Thanks a ton. Just managed a click on the difficult leg by myself. Yeah, the pain was in the groin area - I did what you suggested and just went super super slow.
15 of those a day will definitely suck but at least I know its possible now! Feeling more optimistic now than before.
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In a week or 2 this'll be super easy! For some reason as you get used to it and time passes your body seems to relax and allow to reach the clicking point so much easier.
Almost too easy. You'll see what I mean.
Anyway glad that worked. Good luck on the journey ahead
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In a week or 2 this'll be super easy! For some reason as you get used to it and time passes your body seems to relax and allow to reach the clicking point so much easier.
Almost too easy. You'll see what I mean.
Anyway glad that worked. Good luck on the journey ahead
Yeah done 2 days of 15 clicks now, it's way way easier than before.
You should get that new technique patented or something, lol. It's a lifesaver!
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I should get a dollar for each click done in that way...
I'd be a millionaire in a few months... And taller lol!!!
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Hey OzBoy, how are you holding up?
How much have you lengthened by now? And how are you feeling about this new height?
Any hiccups or other info you wanna share?
Hope all is good. Cheers
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Hi Will,
Well as per many other diaries, I too have lost a bit of drive about updating the diary. Apologies for that.
I did lengthen about 8.2cm but I was done with the clicking around mid December last year. 172cm now. (Easily 175cm with shoes).
Fast forward 6 months to today and ...
I haven't recovered yet. I walk without crutches, but still with a limp, with difficulty, and if I walk too much, with pain.
I can't sit below 50cm without helping me with my hands, let alone squatting and I have the last little bit of duck ass lingering...which contributes to my walk hips saying..
I would say that compared to my "athletic" ability presurgery, i am at about 30%
The progress is constant but extremely slow. And it gets frustrating at times. You really gotta stay super patient.
Plus I'm not doing a great job stretching as I have to take care of 2 businesses and a kid.
However, my bones have joined and i hope in 4 weeks (next x-ray) i can see some good calcification going on. Progress for me has really started to pickup in the last few months where my bones have started joining. I'm not sure but i think that has a lot to do with the recovery.
The new height is super great. It makes all these struggles bearable. I feel good with myself. I meet with people who were taller than me and looked good... And now I am taller than them.
Not much else to be honest. It is a long ride that's for sure. For all the ones out there who haven't done it. Do not kid yourself. 3 months ain't gonna cut it. Some lucky people manage to do it in a very short time, but the majority of us need about 1 year to get back to a somewhat normal walking.
With this, until next x-ray (or until i manage my first body squat), keep grinding. I'm out!
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Thank you for the detailed diary. I’m really happy for you! Makes me happy to see you enjoying your taller height :)
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Not much else to be honest. It is a long ride that's for sure. For all the ones out there who haven't done it. Do not kid yourself. 3 months ain't gonna cut it. Some lucky people manage to do it in a very short time, but the majority of us need about 1 year to get back to a somewhat normal walking.
With this, until next x-ray (or until i manage my first body squat), keep grinding. I'm out!
Thanks for the update man! What does your doctor think about your progress? Is he surprised? I know stretching is painful but it's important to keep doing it after lengthening as well (I just finished lengthening myself). I know easier said than done..are you at least doing some PT?
And I'm glad you mentioned 3 months ain't gonna cut it. I think way too many people here are in delusions about that. Even if you spend a lot of time on rehab and able to recover faster, it still takes time to recover. Hope your next x-rays are good!
One last thing. I saw you help p00293 earlier in the thread. I know you haven't spent much time here lately but I strongly suggest you spend 5 minutes to quickly skim through some of his posts. He's been a gigantic jerk, lashing out on anyone who would question anything he says, and driving away good people from this forum. He definitely doesn't deserve any help from us, he should spend his LL suffering alone.
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This nonce hippo is following me around the forum, angry after the mods told him to fk off when he started bleating for his safe space. Pay him no mind, the police will hopefully be taking him away soon.
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Guys... Stop it!
What's the f.....g point of going at each other. We're all in the same boat here! All with the same problem. All strong people I'd like to say who went through or are about to go through some crazy surgery to improve their life.
Whatever the reason you 2 are bitching about each other, it ain't worth it.
Anyway, doctor keep telling me that my recovery is average. If I were to do stretching regularly, right now i would probably feel much much closer to a normal walking person. Yes, im doing PTregularly twice a week but not much else aside that.
But things have improved drastically in the last few weeks and i believe it's really something that has to do with my consolidation finally happening...
We'll see what the next few weeks bring us
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Hi! Do you think less lengthening would speed up recovery and preserve more athleticism? For example, 5-6cm on femurs.
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Yes, 100%
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Hi! Do you think less lengthening would speed up recovery and preserve more athleticism? For example, 5-6cm on femurs.
What is the actual logic in this question? You asked this on multiple forum posts.
I mean Do you think less lengthening would speed up recovery and preserve more athleticism? For example, 1-2cm on femurs? or do you think 9-10cm will be quicker to recover? Cmon man
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Hi Everyone,
I've been reading pretty much all of you in this forum since I decided to jump in and book my surgery and I must thank each and everyone of you who posted their experiences, the details of PT, surgery, hospitals, doctors. You've been an incredible source of information.
Also a big shout out to Vic from @Cyborg4Life. He is th hero among us and deserves all the success he can get.
In about 2 weeks time (Aug 24th) I'll go for a bilateral femoral lengthening through G-Nail with Dr. Giotikas in Athens.
I have explored various options before this but the combination of being a weight bearing nail (although with a gruesome ratcheting mechanism lol), the package that Dr. G. offers (they include full PT in the cost... that's quite good), his reputation and overall the "vibe" of competence that I got in my 1 hour consultation with him convinced me that he is the right option. Ah.. and the location. You can't beat Greece in summertime.
I'll be staying at the Novotel in Athens, which is the closest hotel to the PT centre with all the amenities i was looking for (gym, pool, various restaurants...big breakfast...). If anyone is staying there too, please reach out and we can grab a few drinks together.
I thought I start this diary to share my experience, the goods, the bads... the ugly (hopefully not) and the achievements and get in return some much needed support from people that understand what most of us are driven from when going through this.
A bit of background. 38 years old, 164cm, 64Kg caucasian male. Live in Australia with my wife and an amazing kid (the real pain here is to leave him for about 2 months but my wife has been supportive of this from day one. Nobody else knows about this. Not my family not my friends. This is a solo journey and I'm lucky I can actually afford it (money and time).
About my current build... I'm fairly athletic and in good shape. Use to go hard-core to crossfit gym until 6-7 months ago when I literally stopped doing lower body hypertrophy sessions and only concentrated on stretching.
I still kept my upper body routine somewhat but just in order to.. maintain. I believe that will help heaps during lengthening to be able to move around. I did lose a lot of cardio stamina though as i havent been going to classes sonce then.
On the other hand, my flexibility gains have been quite satisfying. I'm at a point where as far as hamstrings go, I can easily go palms to ground with my elbow bended somewhat. On the hip flexor side, I can't quite gauge how flexible they are but I've been concentrating most of my efforts on those recently as I understand and I feel they will be key to success and are notoriously harder to stretch than the hammies.
What are my goals?
Well, I set myself a 3 tiered goal. I'd like to aim at a minimum of 7cm as tier1, which will make me happy as ill get closer to average (and with shoes i should reach close to 175cm), but if I feel good the ideal goal would be between 8-9cm.
If then things progress better than I expect (Im not holding my breadth here) I would venture the double digit goal as my ultimate target. Yes I understand this is risky and all that and I do appreciate everyone providing comments to other patient to don't risk a healthy body for an extra cm. I'll see how thing go and follow the Doctor's and PT's advise when I'm there.
Other than this, I hope I can manage to squeeze in some trip around Athens as I believe this time of the year the weather should be awesome (I like hot sweaty climates).
Anyway, hope to be able to provide insights that will help other prospective patients, do don't shy away from questions.
Cheers
OzBoy
If you have recent imaging data please put it at this thread.
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Hey Ozboy, hope everything's going well. Did you use a stadiometer at all when you finished lengthening/have you measured your height? Slight duck ass aside, do you think you got a "real" full 8.2cm from the nail?
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No I didn't , but I'm pretty sure I still am about 1 cm shorter than I should be... I still have some duck ass.
Yeah I think I got pretty much full height minus duck ass.
But I haven't really measured myself with a stadiometer.
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No I didn't , but I'm pretty sure I still am about 1 cm shorter than I should be... I still have some duck ass.
Yeah I think I got pretty much full height minus duck ass.
But I haven't really measured myself with a stadiometer.
Missing height seems to be a problem some people experience. But as you said, when your duck ass get better over time it might even itself out.
Giotikas is still the one I probably will go for. He seem very competent in his interviews.
The only thing I worry about is that one death case he had. But from what I remember it was a patient unwilling to cooperate with Giotikas? That person was also on the older side if I'm not mistaken.
Thanks for keeping us updated with your story. Very inspiring as always.
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Missing height seems to be a problem some people experience. But as you said, when your duck ass get better over time it might even itself out.
Giotikas is still the one I probably will go for. He seem very competent in his interviews.
The only thing I worry about is that one death case he had. But from what I remember it was a patient unwilling to cooperate with Giotikas? That person was also on the older side if I'm not mistaken.
Thanks for keeping us updated with your story. Very inspiring as always.
1. If you know nothing, dun wrote nonsense
2. The patient who died was not old and what u meant not co-operate with Giotikas. Who told u that?
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1. If you know nothing, dun wrote nonsense
2. The patient who died was not old and what u meant not co-operate with Giotikas. Who told u that?
I will write whatever I want. You can cry or share.
Your choice kiddo.
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I will write whatever I want. You can cry or share.
Your choice kiddo.
This Forum is to share the information, not for your gossip or hearsay.
Do not spread rumour or false info!
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This Forum is to share the information, not for your gossip or hearsay.
Do not spread rumour or false info!
Or what? This forum is just as much for my gossip or hearsay as it is for your crying.
Deal with it.
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Or what? This forum is just as much for my gossip or hearsay as it is for your crying.
Deal with it.
Dear LL Friends,
Use your wise judgement and always verify the facts.
A lot of people like Will955 who like to gossip and spread rumour.
Good Luck for all in LL!