Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: Great321 on October 20, 2018, 02:25:06 PM
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About me
- young
- 1,60m
- current goals: about 5cm height increase with external tibia TSF frames
- later additional 5cm with Stryde
- surgery: 15.10.18
- lengthening start: 24.10.18
- staying in an appartment in Athens with 2 family members
Update 1
Pain
I was already told that in the first days in the hospital there's less pain as they constantly give you painkillers. I feel like heaving very heavy lower legs, very bad muscle ache. Sometimes my legs feel very hot inside. My right knee was hurting in the beginning since I had a condition there before. And only on the second day my knees felt like almost bursting when I was bending them. So far it is bearable though. It's a mix of heaviness, heat, burning and pressure. (not at the same time)
Walking
On the first day, I could only move my feet a bit, not my legs. The Dr. suggested to start walking on the next day since I seemed tired.
On the second day I walked a few steps. My right foot was weaker. I'm afraid to put my whole weight there but in theory it should be doable.
On the third day morning I was very happy because I thought I improved a lot. Walked longer, had less pain. But then I was sitting on the toilet (not the first time), my knees were hurting weirdly, my left foot began tingling and becoming warmer. After I went back to my bed I noticed that a little part of my left foot was now more numb then before. And since then my left foot becomes hot and feels like burning when I walk. Now my left foot is the weaker one and walking is more difficult and painful then on the 3rd day morning. I hope it gets better soon. Maybe I was sitting wrongly. Now I try to strech my legs a little more when I'm sitting.
Side note
I feel like I'm in good hands. (Also after having met up Zakika who seems confident) Dr. Giotikas and his co-worker Dr. Giannakos are very pleasant and reliable and assure you that you're never alone during the process. The frames are really stable. I never feel insecure. The few days in the hospital were alright. The nurses make check ups constantly so I couldn't sleep for several hours in a row. It might have been because of the medication but I felt sick all the time, so I wasn't hungry either. Now in the appartment I can sleep better and eat whenever I'm hungry. (My family's food is also better) That's it for now. I will make updates every now and then when I think it makes sense. (Picture below is from the first days, now the gauze has been changed, no bleeding anymore)
(https://i.imgur.com/TeicpQv.jpg)
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About me- young
- 1,60m
- current goals: about 5cm height increase with external tibia TSF frames
- later additional 5cm with Stryde
- surgery: 15.10.18
- lengthening start: 24.10.18
- staying in an appartment in Athens with 2 family members
Update 1
Pain
I was already told that in the first days in the hospital there's less pain as they constantly give you painkillers. I feel like heaving very heavy lower legs, very bad muscle ache. Sometimes my legs feel very hot inside. My right knee was hurting in the beginning since I had a condition there before. And only on the second day my knees felt like almost bursting when I was bending them. So far it is bearable though. It's a mix of heaviness, heat, burning and pressure. (not at the same time)
Walking
On the first day, I could only move my feet a bit, not my legs. The Dr. suggested to start walking on the next day since I seemed tired.
On the second day I walked a few steps. My right foot was weaker. I'm afraid to put my whole weight there but in theory it should be doable.
On the third day morning I was very happy because I thought I improved a lot. Walked longer, had less pain. But then I was sitting on the toilet (not the first time), my knees were hurting weirdly, my left foot began tingling and becoming warmer. After I went back to my bed I noticed that a little part of my left foot was now more numb then before. And since then my left foot becomes hot and feels like burning when I walk. Now my left foot is the weaker one and walking is more difficult and painful then on the 3rd day morning. I hope it gets better soon. Maybe I was sitting wrongly. Now I try to strech my legs a little more when I'm sitting.
Side note
I feel like I'm in good hands. (Also after having met up Zakika who seems confident) Dr. Giotikas and his co-worker Dr. Giannakos are very pleasant and reliable and assure you that you're never alone during the process. The frames are really stable. I never feel insecure. The few days in the hospital were alright. The nurses make check ups constantly so I couldn't sleep for several hours in a row. It might have been because of the medication but I felt sick all the time, so I wasn't hungry either. Now in the appartment I can sleep better and eat whenever I'm hungry. (My family's food is also better) That's it for now. I will make updates every now and then when I think it makes sense. (Picture below is from the first days, now the gauze has been changed, no bleeding anymore)
(https://i.imgur.com/TeicpQv.jpg)
congrats buddy :)
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About me- young
- 1,60m
- current goals: about 5cm height increase with external tibia TSF frames
- later additional 5cm with Stryde
- surgery: 15.10.18
- lengthening start: 24.10.18
- staying in an appartment in Athens with 2 family members
Update 1
Pain
I was already told that in the first days in the hospital there's less pain as they constantly give you painkillers. I feel like heaving very heavy lower legs, very bad muscle ache. Sometimes my legs feel very hot inside. My right knee was hurting in the beginning since I had a condition there before. And only on the second day my knees felt like almost bursting when I was bending them. So far it is bearable though. It's a mix of heaviness, heat, burning and pressure. (not at the same time)
Walking
On the first day, I could only move my feet a bit, not my legs. The Dr. suggested to start walking on the next day since I seemed tired.
On the second day I walked a few steps. My right foot was weaker. I'm afraid to put my whole weight there but in theory it should be doable.
On the third day morning I was very happy because I thought I improved a lot. Walked longer, had less pain. But then I was sitting on the toilet (not the first time), my knees were hurting weirdly, my left foot began tingling and becoming warmer. After I went back to my bed I noticed that a little part of my left foot was now more numb then before. And since then my left foot becomes hot and feels like burning when I walk. Now my left foot is the weaker one and walking is more difficult and painful then on the 3rd day morning. I hope it gets better soon. Maybe I was sitting wrongly. Now I try to strech my legs a little more when I'm sitting.
Side note
I feel like I'm in good hands. (Also after having met up Zakika who seems confident) Dr. Giotikas and his co-worker Dr. Giannakos are very pleasant and reliable and assure you that you're never alone during the process. The frames are really stable. I never feel insecure. The few days in the hospital were alright. The nurses make check ups constantly so I couldn't sleep for several hours in a row. It might have been because of the medication but I felt sick all the time, so I wasn't hungry either. Now in the appartment I can sleep better and eat whenever I'm hungry. (My family's food is also better) That's it for now. I will make updates every now and then when I think it makes sense. (Picture below is from the first days, now the gauze has been changed, no bleeding anymore)
(https://i.imgur.com/TeicpQv.jpg)
gl man, looking forward to your diary
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thank you :)
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Hey thank you for this. Im also thinking of going to Dr Giotikas. So how did they treat you? ANd how did they treat other people there? are there a lot of short people doing CLL or is it like for medical reasons. Were they nice to you? How is the pain? Is it being less painful? Was the surgery a success?
Feel free to pm me if you want.
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Hey thank you for this. Im also thinking of going to Dr Giotikas. So how did they treat you? ANd how did they treat other people there? are there a lot of short people doing CLL or is it like for medical reasons. Were they nice to you? How is the pain? Is it being less painful? Was the surgery a success?
Feel free to pm me if you want.
Lol, why would he want to PM you?
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So how did they treat you? ANd how did they treat other people there? Were they nice to you?
In each hospital there are good and bad nurses. In general the staff of the hospital was very nice though and everyone was fluent in English. At least more heartily than German nurses..for example some of the male nurses or the Physiotherapist there called me brother which German nurses would never do. They treated the other patients in the room the same. In the beginning I was in a room with one to two old men (who didn't know about my surgery), we didn't talk (which I preferred, they couldn't speak English anyways) but when they left they wished me the best with a smile. The other patients in the hospital and their visitors will look at your legs a lot whenever you're walking around since that's not sth you usually see.
My room wasn't fit for a disabled person so they changed my room sometime after they removed my catheter, so that I didn't have a long way to a bigger bathroom.
are there a lot of short people doing CLL or is it like for medical reasons.
I didn't see any other person with frames on except for zakika whom I visited before. (He knows more about other patients of Dr. G)
How is the pain? Is it being less painful?
I described the pain in my initial post. But pain is very subjective. Also I guess that the pain will probably highly increase once I start lengthening. Although I'm young I had other bigger medical (not cosmetical) surgeries (won't talk about them) which bound me to my bed for many months. So I was prepared to wake up completely immobile and dependent on others. I am a bit more hardened therefore. If I hadn't had the experience this surgery would have overwhelmed me especially If I hadn't had family support.
Was the surgery a success?This can't be answered with yes or no, yet. I had no complications. But only in the future when I'll be able to walk without support, when I'll reach my height, I can tell if the surgery was a success.
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I wish you a speedy recovery.. you are a hero
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Thank you Honore!
Unfortunately my right ankle got swollen today (because I put too much weight on it) which makes me unable to put any weight at all on it now. Let's hope it gets better soon.
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Me as well. I hope you recover 100 percent.
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Me as well. I hope you recover 100 percent.
Thank you! But keep in mind that a recovery of 100% is never possible with an invasive surgery like this.
One of the reasons why I decided for TSF frames and later Stryde is because lengthening with them is reversible. Read for example Unicorn's diary to know how important that is.
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Well will you keep us posted on your recovery?
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Hey Great321,
thank you for writing this diary as there’s very few information about Dr.Giotikas and there’s some potential LL patients who’s considering him including myself, I believe this is the first diary from him (please inform me if there are others before you) anyway I have questions.
1. What made you decide to go to Dr.Giotikas despite lack of information/diary about him?
2. Do you know any of his past patients? was there experience with him successful? you said Zakika knows more of his patients but I’m pretty sure you asked him/her too about them, are they successful or have you met any of them?
3. How much would Stryde in tibia will cost with Dr.Giotikas? when will he start offering it?
4. What’s the maximum allowable cms he can allow for Stryde in tibia?
5. How’s Dr. Giotikas as a doctor and his other staff in his hospital?
6. How’s the living condition there in Greece?
That’s my questions for now as I might ask you more soon, hopefully you can answer as it’ll be a really big help for me and others who’s considering him, your diary will be very valuable, We’ll appreciate your answers, goodluck with your journey!
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Hi Bron,
there is also zakika’s diary on this forum.
1.The price, the package, location, Dr. Giotika’s calm and reasonable appearance
2. You can ask zakika about that
3. I think about 40.000€, not sure. Around December. You can e-mail info@athensbjr.com . They usually answer very quickly.
4. I didn’t ask that as I decided for TSF frames for tibia.
5. I described that earlier. They are all very likeable.
6. I have found a nice apartment through Airbnb. The weather is really good. Groceries are more expensive than in Germany. The people are friendly.
Thank you!
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Update 2 1,4cm
Pain?
During the last two weeks I experienced different kind of difficulties that weren’t necessarily painful.
1.As mentioned before my right foot was weaker in the beginning. I didn’t dare to put too much weight on it. But when I did it the ankle got swollen. Two days later, after I lifted my leg up and put some ice on it the swelling disappeared. As recommended by my PT I tried to put equal weight on both of my feet while standing. Now I can put my weight on the right and left foot without any problems. (not a painful experience, rather demoralizing)
2.In the beginning, when I stood up from my bed my tibias hurt for about a minute. The pain disappeared then. 4/10
3.When I started to lengthen, I noticed a sensation like high pressure from outside squeezing my left tibia whenever I walked (not painful but uncomfortable and a bit scary)
4.The scariest thing was that for a few days I heard a loud abruptly pop (sound) coming from my left tibia. It appeared whenever I put weight on it while walking. I felt this very uncomfortable pop, too. I described this to Dr. Giotikas and he said that it might be the bones rubbing each other (where the cut was made) and that it will disappear when I continue lengthening. He was right.
5.The most painful experience was about a 7 from 10: For a few days the pins right under my right knee were causing a lot of pain. Only when I had to bend my leg to stand up or to sit. It stopped on the day when Dr. Giannakos “forcefully” bend my right leg for a few times with his hands. It was painful, but it helped a lot. On that day I also had PT where I had to bend my knee as an exercise. Afterwards my right leg was healed and strong again. Soon after, my left leg became the weaker one.
6.Two days ago sitting on the wheelchair (with your leg raised a bit) wasn’t easy. My muscle under my right knee causes problems. I haven’t tried it since.
Nevertheless, my legs usually don’t hurt while lying on the bed or when I walk. I’m lucky since my mother or sister can help me by for example putting a soft blanket under my legs and adjusting it whenever I feel uncomfortable. And except for point number 5 the pain was bearable so far.
Sleep
The whole time I had no problems falling asleep and sleeping for a long time. Only about 3-4 days ago I started to feel pretty tired during the day. It made feel very weak too which is very demoralizing. I couldn’t walk as much as before, or I wasn’t as happy. I have difficulties to fall asleep, not because of pain but because of the feeling that I have to bend my leg a bit to feel more comfortable. But when I move and bend my legs the new position feels uncomfortable after some time. Once I fell asleep around 4AM. It sounds weird but tonight after several hours awake, I laid my left arm above head for a few minutes and the uncomfortable feeling of my left leg stopped. I will see if my sleeping condition improves the next days. I already tried natural sleeping pills (Baldrian or EVIOL). Didn’t help so much.
Walking
I probably walk up to 7 or more times a day for a few steps. When I’m not tired, I try to walk more. I can’t walk too much at a time though because either my right ankle or the nerves of my left foot begin to make problems.
Side note
I can say that pushing yourself even if it’s painful is sometimes very helpful and can actually relieve a lot of pain. But I wouldn’t exaggerate it if I’m doing exercises on my own.
Also, I wouldn’t have managed to be so optimistic and mentally stable if my mother and sister weren’t there to help me the whole time.
I never really feel hungry. I have no appetite either. Only when my stomach feels empty I know I have to eat.
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Hi great321,
I’m interested in undergoing LL on my tibias with Dr Giotikas and was wondering what are the pin incisions on the externals like - sounds pathetic I know when we do this to gain height but are/will there be large permanent scars?
Wishing you all the best on your journey and a speedy recovery!
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Hey Mapk,
here is a picture from a few days ago. I can imagine that there will be small dots all over my legs where the pins were but since I'm more dark skinned and (more hairy than on the picutre) it won't be really noticable.
https://imgur.com/x3os7mQ
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Oh my goodness! Does it hurt? This looks so painful. What about all of those scars? Are the scars going to heal? Are you black or just dark skinned?
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Hey Mapk,
here is a picture from a few days ago. I can imagine that there will be small dots all over my legs where the pins were but since I'm more dark skinned and (more hairy than on the picutre) it won't be really noticable.
https://imgur.com/x3os7mQ
do you have any auto-immune diseases like psoriasis?
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do you have any auto-immune diseases like psoriasis?
No:) After the surgery my skin was just very dry because the gauzes that will be put around the pin sites are drenched with an alcoholic fluid. When I had to change the gauzes 2 times after the surgery again, the gauzes were also drenched with alcohol and since it was also lying around my skin it just dried so much.
It is allowed to use skin cream unless it doesn't get inside the pins. I tried it on the sides of my legs (that look ok on the picture) but it began to itch..so right now I'm more cautious.
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Update 2,1cm
Problems
1.The last time I mentioned sleeping problems because of the feeling of having to bend my knee.
In the beginning that feeling was only troubling me in the evening and during night. But it developed to a more annoying problem. Because it was annoying me during the day too sometime after. It was obviously my muscles of my upper left leg because when I massaged them it felt good. But it didn’t solve the problem. The muscle discomfort (not pain) changed from time to time between upper leg and gluteus/butt muscle.
It might sound harmless but not only was it keeping me from sleeping but the discomfort level even raised to a 10 out of 10. I was really desperate. No position, no massage, nothing seemed to be helpful. But then I asked my sister to darken the room and leave me alone. I closed my eyes and listened to loud music. Wow…and suddenly the discomfort disappeared like magic. For one night and one day relaxing for about 10 minutes removed the problem. The next evening just relaxing didn’t help anymore. For almost the whole night I was trying to fall asleep but the muscle discomfort in my butt was too bad.
I messaged Dr. Giotikas that night and he sent Dr. Giannakos. I was told by him and my PT to do certain muscle training.
Anyways I can’t remember that I had the same discomfort since that night again. With every following day I felt better. While it was still annoying me yesterday afternoon, it improved a lot since yesterday evening. Right now it’s a 1/10.
2. Out of one pin yellowish fluid was discharging. I had to clean the pin site normally and put a gauze on it. When Dr. Giannakos was visiting, I told him that whenever I pull the gauze away to change it, it takes the crust away, he recommended to just leave it by itself without a gauze even. The result was that the yellowish fluid dried and turned red becoming a tent looking like crust around the pin site. But sometimes the yellow fluid was still discharging from some hole. Yesterday I noticed that the fluid looked like pulsating. I sent pictures and a video to Dr. Giotikas who called me and advised to clean the pin site completely, so I had to remove that ugly crust, the fluid and my skin, then put a gauze around. At this pin site something weird pimple looking like something developed. Dr. Giotikas said that it is a small hypetrophic granulation tissue that will disappear when the frame is removed. Yesterday evening I e-mailed him again, telling him that the pin site hurts when I walk. Today he said that he will talk with Dr. Giannakos if antibiotic tablets for a few days will be needed. But today it didn’t hurt anymore. I messaged him that. I don’t know if that changes anything.
3. I can pull both of my legs towards me (by bending my knees of course) when I lie on my bed. But I can only stretch my right leg back to its original position without much difficulty. My left leg is too weak for that, it needs assistance.
4. The nerves of my left foot or ankle of right foot don’t bother me that much any more when I walk a bit longer.
Walking
Some days I felt like not walking at all, I still try to walk a bit. But the last days I noticed some progress. I was able to walk the distance which I walked in the beginning now 4 times in one day.
Side Note
I very often look at my calendar wishing time to pass faster. I will definitely wait until my frames come off…enjoy life with healthy legs before I do Stryde. Once you’re at this point you value healthy legs so much.
I pass my time by reading (already finished an over 1200 page book), playing PS4, listening to music, watching Netflix and following the news. Only on those few days where the muscle discomfort was very high I couldn’t do much of my activities.
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Oh my goodness! Does it hurt? This looks so painful. What about all of those scars? Are the scars going to heal? Are you black or just dark skinned?
No it doesn't hurt. Only in the beginning the pin sites around my right knee were hurting a lot when I bent my knee. Now only the one where the pin site is inflammed sometimes hurt a little bit when I walk, but nothing serious.
I don't care about the scars at all... I have other bigger scars from medical surgeries. Yes, I saw pictures from other LLers. The scars won't be too big. Only small brownish dots. I have a brown skin color.
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Update 2,5
Height difference
I had already noticed a change of my height when I was close to 2cm. Because with someone I know whose shoulders were higher than mine were now lower. Also, my sister was taller than me. Before our eyes weren’t the same level. Now they are.
Duck ass
It is inevitable to walk kind of like a duck. I can’t stand straight without help. A doctor of the PT center told me to lie on my belly with my frames outside of the bed for several minutes a day…I tried it and it’s very difficult and kind of painful as the frames are too heavy, that stresses my knees. Does someone know about this exercise? How does it go exactly…? I don’t know if it makes sense or will help at all but I turned around my walker. Now it’s behind me when I walk. Like that my body isn’t leaned forward the whole time. Maybe it helps. ? What else could help against duck ass?
Muscle Discomfort
It got worse again at night and kept me awake. I was able too fall asleep but after every 2 hours I woke up and had to fall asleep again. At least I don’t feel tired during the day, probably because I stay in bed until 10AM to 1PM.
Weaker left leg
It got weak probably because I used it less out of fear of getting more muscle discomfort. Also when I walked I always made the first step with my right leg. I should have mixed it up more because I put more weight on the leg that makes the first step and that makes it stronger. Now I force myself to do more with the weaker leg. I regret that I didn't prevent this by working out more.
Weightbearing
Dr. Giannakos always says that the most important thing is to walk, walk and walk…. Also the people on this forum wrote that weightbearing is one of the most important things. I noticed that in the past I supported myself too much with the walker out of fear as the last time my ankle got swollen.
Food supplement
Dr. Giannakos said I don’t need anything except for Vitamin D and meat (every day). He said that like 1000 times. So far I only take Calcium (every second day), Vitamin D (prescribed by the doctor), sometimes Magnesium (too laxative for me), additional Protein, just recently Vitamin C. When the consolidation phase begins I want to take collagen, too.
Pain killers and Lyrica
Some LLers report about not lengthening sometimes when the pain is too much. Or some say that after walking they are more in pain. So far I have none of those problems. Lengthening or walking (and resting afterwards) is painless for me. But I make those lengthening clicks very slowly to avoid a feeling of pressure or nerve pain that might appear. Tramal, one of the painkillers that is prescribed doesn’t seem to work for me I think. I never felt any difference when I took it but the real pain I had so far was never lasting. So I just stopped taking painkillers. But when I told Dr. Giannakos about that he insisted that I should take at least one Tramal pill a day and 2 Lyrica (against nerve pain) a day. That actually improved my muscle problem.
4cm vs. 5cm
I am thinking about stopping after 4cm. And the pros outweigh the cons for me…What do you think?
Pros: That would mean getting rid of the awful frames maybe 1,5months earlier, getting healthy earlier, looks more proportionate for my body, every cm bears more risks like ballerina foot or else, with Stryde I will gain my target height anyways…
Cons: If I do Stryde a year later..I will have only 4cm for another year instead of 5…but it’s only 1cm difference…. Is so much money worth 4cm?
Contact
One of the reasons why I chose Dr. Giotikas was his responsiveness. He always answers per mail or by a call. No matter if it’s Sunday.
Head fell asleep
A scary experience I made from sleeping too much on my back was that part of my head (skin) fell asleep for 1-2 minutes…never want to experience the same again. I try to sleep on my side now and it works but I wake up every 2 hours.
Haircut
For the first time I got out of the apartment for something else than my PT. Not every street in Athens is perfectly suitable for a wheelchair but it worked out and we reached a hair salon very close by. And I feel a lot better now since I’m not used to “long” hair. I was wearing like XL sweatpants which were covering my frames.
Inflammation
The one pin site is still inflamed. Yellowish fluid is still coming out of it and forming itself to a crust. It's 2 weeks ago since I first saw the yellow fluid. Weird..that it didn't heal by itself. On Monday I have my next appointment with Dr. Giotikas. Then I will probably get antibiotics.
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Rozburch claims in one of his papers that low 4cm is the average at which contracture can occur. Somewhere between 4 - 4.5cm is safest from that point of view
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so does the Dr. have Stryde already or still "soon"?
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Wow, I only noticed your diary now.
Wishing you the best of luck, Great!!
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Rozburch claims in one of his papers that low 4cm is the average at which contracture can occur. Somewhere between 4 - 4.5cm is safest from that point of view
Thanks for the information. I will talk to Dr. G about that.
so does the Dr. have Stryde already or still "soon"?
I haven't talk to him about that yet but I think it's already there..you should just mail him.
Wow, I only noticed your diary now.
Wishing you the best of luck, Great!!
Thank you! ;D
Well....something happened to me 2 hours ago that every LLer with externals would be afraid of..I lost my balance and fell forwards onto the externals. Greatest shock of my life. Luckily I wasn't alone at home. One second after I fell my mother and sister were running into my room (they heard my cry for help) and helped me to get on top of my bed.
There was great pressure on many of the pins and out of some of them tiny bits of new blood came out but dried soon after. My left knee hurt a bit more. And some of the pin sites still feel a bit sore. But other than that nothing serious happened. I'm able to stand and walk. (only made a few steps since then)
I e-mailed Dr. Giotikas who just called me to check how I feel. He assured me that the frames are stable enough as I asked him if my bones could be discplaced. He wanted to know how it happened and I explained him how I walk now ...with the walker behind me to avoid duck ass and he said that duck ass is something I don't have to worry about. Duck ass is not a problem with the tibia surgery. So I asked him if I'll walk straight again after the frames get taken off and he said yes.
If my PT and the doctor at that PT place wouldn't have told me all the time to sleep on my belly to avoid duck ass I wouldn't have come to the idea to walk with my walker behind my body... and I wouldn't have fallen down... :(
Anyways I'm lucky that nothing more serious happened.
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Update 2,775
Lengthening
New X-rays were taken yesterday. We already saw callus formation. Dr. Giotikas was indecisive if I should continue 1mm/day but then he decided for 3 clicks per day instead of 4 clicks. So now I will lengthen 0,75mm each day. On one hand it’s annoying since it will delay the lengthening phase for 1-2 weeks. On the other hand, it might be easier for the body, also it’s better for the callus. (I wanted to post my X-rays, but Dr. G gave the X-rays via a CD. My laptop doesn’t have a CD player though.) What surprised me was that the X-rays showed less distraction length than I had clicked so far. I should have been at 2,7 but instead sth like 2,5 and less was shown. This means I have to lengthen a couple of days more in the end. Dr. G mentioned that the first clicks in the first days didn't lengthen my bones because of some compression.
Muscle Discomfort
Dr. G said it doesn’t have to do with the surgery, but it might come from the muscle atrophy. The last days were rough again at day and night time. Today I feel better. I try to solve it through PT. I would suggest to future tibia LLers to work out those upper leg muscles and gluteus muscles before. They are really important. Maybe I have that problem because my left leg was a bit shorter than the right one. This might have caused an inbalance of weight, I probably used my left leg muscles more this way.
Weaker left leg
I noticed some progress. Before, when I sat on the side of my bed and wanted to lift both of my legs onto the bed, my left leg needed assistance. Now I can lift both of my legs without help. Also cycling in the air with that leg became easier.
Weightbearing
I feel like Dr. G expects a lot. Whenever we take X-rays I have to get on top of a table. For getting there someone put stairs in front of it. Dr. G asked me if I can climb on it, they would help me. But climbing those stairs felt impossible for me. So, in the end he and another man had to lift me up. Later he told me to walk as much as possible.
Inflammation
Dr. Giotikas saw that pin site and said that on the pictures it looked worse. I didn’t get antibiotics. I still have to clean it just normally and put a gauze around it. Around the pin site my skin doesn’t hurt as much as in the beginning any more.
Numbness
There are several numb places around my tibias and as mentioned before around my left foot. I wonder if they are going to be normal again. Forgot to ask.
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Update 3,3
Muscle problem
I noticed that when I sit 90° with my legs stretched out on my bed the muscle problem isn’t as annoying. Still it bothers me at night. I tried a hot devil’s claw balm. I applied it on my butt and upper left leg. It helps for 1-3 hours. The burning sensation distracts me from the discomfort letting me fall asleep. One of the physiotherapists explained again that it comes from the immobility. When I wake up in the middle of the night with the same problem, I apply some devil’s claw again.
Pain
After the last PT session I developed a new pain somewhere above my right heel. I told my PT to stretch that foot again, so he did. As I didn’t felt any pain or discomfort he stretched it very firmly. Maybe that was too much in the end. In general my feet always look a bit swollen.
Stiffness
When I sat or lay too long in bed (after sleeping) my left leg feels stiffer as if the muscles there are shorter and I need to stretch that leg more. My right foot is a bit less stretchable than the left one. When I stand straight (which is only possible with the help of my walker) I can’t immediately touch the floor with both of my heels. It needs some time. So I will definitely stop at 4cm to not worsen the situation too much. I also don’t want to extend the recovery process too much.
Walking
Walking didn’t become easier. It’s still exhausting but doable. Didn’t notice any improvement. It’s very annoying to be so slow with the walker. Very short distances feel far away. The day I will be able to walk again normally, make myself comfortable by sitting however I want on the sofa, will be one of the luckiest days.
Mental health
I’ve lost energy. The first three weeks felt easy. The days passed by fast and I was able to sleep without much disturbance. My mood changes depending how tired I am. Yesterday I slept several hours during the day because I was very tired. I don’t know why. Tiredness on top of being almost immobile depresses me a lot. But again, I don’t even want to imagine how it would have been If I was alone here with only a caretaker who would only come for a few hours a day. I need my family for almost the whole day for many little things (we take for granted). And their company is the most important thing for me. A few days ago when the weather was better we spent some time at the seaside. It’s nice to see something else.
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You and I are almost at the same spot in our lengthening, I'm doing externals ilizarov, same problems. I would say the previous 2 weeks had some awful depression and pain, where I didn't even lengthen, sometimes 1 turn a day. It's all turned around, I'm training a lot in bed and doing hours of PT, and lessening pain killers as well. Keep strong man, every week it's a new struggle. Just keep smashing down walls until you get there.
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Update 3,3
Muscle problem
I noticed that when I sit 90° with my legs stretched out on my bed the muscle problem isn’t as annoying. Still it bothers me at night. I tried a hot devil’s claw balm. I applied it on my butt and upper left leg. It helps for 1-3 hours. The burning sensation distracts me from the discomfort letting me fall asleep. One of the physiotherapists explained again that it comes from the immobility. When I wake up in the middle of the night with the same problem, I apply some devil’s claw again.
Pain
After the last PT session I developed a new pain somewhere above my right heel. I told my PT to stretch that foot again, so he did. As I didn’t felt any pain or discomfort he stretched it very firmly. Maybe that was too much in the end. In general my feet always look a bit swollen.
Stiffness
When I sat or lay too long in bed (after sleeping) my left leg feels stiffer as if the muscles there are shorter and I need to stretch that leg more. My right foot is a bit less stretchable than the left one. When I stand straight (which is only possible with the help of my walker) I can’t immediately touch the floor with both of my heels. It needs some time. So I will definitely stop at 4cm to not worsen the situation too much. I also don’t want to extend the recovery process too much.
Walking
Walking didn’t become easier. It’s still exhausting but doable. Didn’t notice any improvement. It’s very annoying to be so slow with the walker. Very short distances feel far away. The day I will be able to walk again normally, make myself comfortable by sitting however I want on the sofa, will be one of the luckiest days.
Mental health
I’ve lost energy. The first three weeks felt easy. The days passed by fast and I was able to sleep without much disturbance. My mood changes depending how tired I am. Yesterday I slept several hours during the day because I was very tired. I don’t know why. Tiredness on top of being almost immobile depresses me a lot. But again, I don’t even want to imagine how it would have been If I was alone here with only a caretaker who would only come for a few hours a day. I need my family for almost the whole day for many little things (we take for granted). And their company is the most important thing for me. A few days ago when the weather was better we spent some time at the seaside. It’s nice to see something else.
Hang in there...
I too believe that mental health is very important during lengthening. Thats why its important to have family with you or lengthen together with other patients.
A LLer will face psysical issues aswell and psychological. That is why I asked Köhne if I could lengthen at home after 1,5 months. Being in familiar environment, eating food you are used to and hanging out with friends and family will make one forget time.
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You and I are almost at the same spot in our lengthening, I'm doing externals ilizarov, same problems. I would say the previous 2 weeks had some awful depression and pain, where I didn't even lengthen, sometimes 1 turn a day. It's all turned around, I'm training a lot in bed and doing hours of PT, and lessening pain killers as well. Keep strong man, every week it's a new struggle. Just keep smashing down walls until you get there.
Yes, everyday there are some moments where you think...when will this end? We have to celebrate on the day when our frames will be taken off :) I wish you the best recovery!
Hang in there...
I too believe that mental health is very important during lengthening. Thats why its important to have family with you or lengthen together with other patients.
A LLer will face psysical issues aswell and psychological. That is why I asked Köhne if I could lengthen at home after 1,5 months. Being in familiar environment, eating food you are used to and hanging out with friends and family will make one forget time.
Yes I will and soon at least the lengthening part will end. Thanks for your words! I appreciate it!
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Update 3,525cm
Muscle problem
Since one of the physiotherapists showed me a certain stretching exercise my gluteus muscle feels a lot better now. Problem is not completely gone though.
Pain
The pain above my right heel had stopped 2 days later. Instead the place below my right knee started to hurt since yesterday whenever I walk.
Stiffness
Dr. Giannakos was seeing me right before PT and he told the physiotherapist to stretch my feet very firmly until the limit. The young woman was really confused because she was stretching my right foot so much but I just didn’t feel any pain. Later, I was lying on the treatment couch on which I was strapped, the bottom of my feet were leant on something. Then the PT elevated the treatment couch until I was “hovering” in the air with my body straight and with my weight on my feet. That lasted around 5-10 minutes. Afterwards there was much less distance between my heels and the floor when I tried to stand straight.
Infection
Two days ago my skin around one or two pins (under the knee) of my left tibia started to hurt. I wasn’t able to sleep on my side anymore. Walking and bending my knee was also very painful. Some skin there looked swollen and reddish so I took pictures and sent them to Dr. Giotikas. He told me that Dr. Giannakos will come see me. So he did today and I was prescribed antibiotics for the next 6 days(Augmentin). Dr. Giannakos was asking me if I took any antibiotics in the past weeks and I said no. He was disappointed which is confusing because no one told me to take any antibiotics. I have to clarify that.
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Update 3,675
„Equinus“
I’m pretty sure that I can’t walk straight due to my heels that can’t touch the ground and not because of some weak muscles (as the PT told me in the beginning). I’m a bit disappointed by myself, I’m 20, yet not as flexible as thought. I wonder how long it will take until the heels touch the ground without pre stretching again. I walk even more bent over now which on top of another problem makes it difficult for me to hold my balance.
Knee pain
4 days ago one of my PTs just suddenly pushed down my right knee to make my leg straight. A sharp pain followed. I told her about it but she just acted as if that it’s normal. I’m sure she made a mistake. Because after that day I had developed pain right below my knee. When I told Dr. Giannakos about my pain he thought it’s because of my weak muscles. Can’t be true, since my right leg was strong enough a few days ago to do a lot of things on its own. The PT on friday was ordered to do a lot of stretching how I already mentioned. The young woman also pushed my knees down while doing that and even though I felt the pain there I thought it’s normal as I was told so.
But now both of my knees feel very weak. When I walk, I don’t put as much weight on my feet as before out of fear of the pain. My arms do most of the work. And when I have to stand on my feet to move the walker my knees hurt and I fear of falling. It is so frustrating to have two weak legs now. Things I was able to do without assistance (like PT exercises or just lifting my leg onto the bed) aren’t possible anymore with my right leg.
I walk much less than before now and I don’t want to walk at all actually. Because whenever I do, I feel too weak and it reminds me of my misery. After a few steps I needed to sit down again today. I feel kind of “betrayed” of my health. This could have been prevented.
Mental health
I slept until around 2:30pm today. Not only because I woke up several times at night again but also because I feel really down. The uncertainty of how long each pain will last or if you will ever walk similar as before, if you will have long lasting pain in the future isn’t easy to handle. I feel guilty of not walking enough or not doing enough PT, how much does this damage my recovery? Is walking only necessary for the bone formation or what else?
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Update 3,75
Good news!
"Equinus"
I noticed yesterday that my left foot actually is still pretty flexible. I have almost no problem touching the floor with it after a short time or even immediately sometimes. It's only my right foot that can't touch the floor for a longer time.
Knee pain
I told my other PT to be more careful. The physiotherapists are in general very good there. This one woman who had pushed my knee wasn’t of course intending to hurt me but I will also tell her to be more cautious with my knees because even though some pain during PT is normal it shouldn’t cause the patient to not walk for a few days. Anyways after PT today I felt stronger. My right knee feels stronger again and I can walk again! So weird how so much can change overnight. Yesterday evening I wasn’t able to walk at all. I was very sad and today I feel rescued. There’s hope! My left leg in general is still very weak. But that will change, too.
Side note
When I felt depressed about my situation, I had written my doctors about it. Dr. Giotikas had called me yesterday evening and we talked about my concerns. He tried to motivate me and advised me to find things that make me strong (mentally), that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that I’m almost there. He also explained that the antibiotics matter was a misunderstanding. Everything went right.
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That's great to hear man! Your diary is slowly but surely making me believe that Giotikas is one of the best options for tibia LL, and If all goes well i'll be doing 5 cm in my tibias in 2022 just like you :) Hang in there my friend, you're so close to the finish line and once you get there you'll be 5 cm taller and a thousand times stronger. Godspeed on your lengthening process and subsequent recovery, and I hope your good luck continues into the future <3
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Thank you so much for this diary. Wishing you the very best. I will be seeing this doctor quite soon, consultation already booked. I’m planning to do just 5 cm also if my body can cope with it that is. What I like about him is that he also does work here in the U.K. for the National health service. He’s one of the few who performs this here also.
I can see you also mentioned a second operation later on.
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Update 3,75
Good news!
"Equinus"
I noticed yesterday that my left foot actually is still pretty flexible. I have almost no problem touching the floor with it after a short time or even immediately sometimes. It's only my right foot that can't touch the floor for a longer time.
Knee pain
I told my other PT to be more careful. The physiotherapists are in general very good there. This one woman who had pushed my knee wasn’t of course intending to hurt me but I will also tell her to be more cautious with my knees because even though some pain during PT is normal it shouldn’t cause the patient to not walk for a few days. Anyways after PT today I felt stronger. My right knee feels stronger again and I can walk again! So weird how so much can change overnight. Yesterday evening I wasn’t able to walk at all. I was very sad and today I feel rescued. There’s hope! My left leg in general is still very weak. But that will change, too.
Side note
When I felt depressed about my situation, I had written my doctors about it. Dr. Giotikas had called me yesterday evening and we talked about my concerns. He tried to motivate me and advised me to find things that make me strong (mentally), that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that I’m almost there. He also explained that the antibiotics matter was a misunderstanding. Everything went right.
Would you recommend someone doing 7.5 cm in one lengthening for tibia?
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Thank you so much for this diary. Wishing you the very best. I will be seeing this doctor quite soon, consultation already booked. I’m planning to do just 5 cm also if my body can cope with it that is. What I like about him is that he also does work here in the U.K. for the National health service. He’s one of the few who performs this here also.
I can see you also mentioned a second operation later on.
Thank you, too! Will you see him in the U.K. or in Athens? Looking forward to read about your experience:)
Would you recommend someone doing 7.5 cm in one lengthening for tibia?
No. At least my body couldn't cope with that amount. I'm 20 and my right heel couldn't touch the ground already at around 3cm. Also I wouldn't want to wear the frames for such a long time. Each cm means about 1,5months more of the frames.
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Update 3,975
X-rays
Today new X-rays were taken. Dr. Giannakos said that they look very good. This time I can post them since they weren’t given via CD. According to the number of clicks I made I should be around 3,9cm but I guess the X-rays will show less like last time. The exact numbers will be given to me soon. Then I know how many days more I have to lengthen.
The callus is more or less visible depending on the light in the pictures. So the callus of the fibula isn't as visible because I focused on the bigger bone.
Left tibia: https://i.imgur.com/9ZYuiHc.jpg
also Left tibia: https://i.imgur.com/ZNOselu.jpg (In this one two holes are visible..strange, I have to ask about that)
One of the fibulas (close up): https://i.imgur.com/dUZzDq5.jpg
Right tibia: https://i.imgur.com/c6BypMB.jpg (doesn't seem to look as good...but at least Dr. Giannakos was pleased)
Walking
The last two days we went outside by the seaside and I walked about 250meters each day. It was sunny and didn’t feel like December at all. That was the first time I walked so much without a stop in between. With healthy legs that’s a ridiculous small distance but with frames on that was a milestone. My next goal is to slowly increase the distance I could walk.
Muscle pain
My gluteus muscle is still causing problems at night. I apply that devil’s claw balm twice per night. Sometimes when I have to stand up in the morning it is very uncomfortable, there is tension going from lower back to foot (only left side) which makes it difficult to walk. It gets better later in the day. Without this problem the whole LL process would have been a lot easier to handle.
Appetite
I had lost my appetite after the surgery. Sometimes after a few bites I felt sick already. Every next bite was a fight. On top of that my digestion was too fast if you know what I mean so I might not got all the vitamins and stuff of the food I ate. Eating became a burden for me. I stopped drinking normal water from the supermarket, now I only drink fennel tea and my digestion system got better. Recently I noticed that I can eat more, too.
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Update 3,975
X-rays
Today new X-rays were taken. Dr. Giannakos said that they look very good. This time I can post them since they weren’t given via CD. According to the number of clicks I made I should be around 3,9cm but I guess the X-rays will show less like last time. The exact numbers will be given to me soon. Then I know how many days more I have to lengthen.
The callus is more or less visible depending on the light in the pictures. So the callus of the fibula isn't as visible because I focused on the bigger bone.
Left tibia: https://i.imgur.com/9ZYuiHc.jpg
also Left tibia: https://i.imgur.com/ZNOselu.jpg (In this one two holes are visible..strange, I have to ask about that)
One of the fibulas (close up): https://i.imgur.com/dUZzDq5.jpg
Right tibia: https://i.imgur.com/c6BypMB.jpg (doesn't seem to look as good...but at least Dr. Giannakos was pleased)
Walking
The last two days we went outside by the seaside and I walked about 250meters each day. It was sunny and didn’t feel like December at all. That was the first time I walked so much without a stop in between. With healthy legs that’s a ridiculous small distance but with frames on that was a milestone. My next goal is to slowly increase the distance I could walk.
Muscle pain
My gluteus muscle is still causing problems at night. I apply that devil’s claw balm twice per night. Sometimes when I have to stand up in the morning it is very uncomfortable, there is tension going from lower back to foot (only left side) which makes it difficult to walk. It gets better later in the day. Without this problem the whole LL process would have been a lot easier to handle.
Appetite
I had lost my appetite after the surgery. Sometimes after a few bites I felt sick already. Every next bite was a fight. On top of that my digestion was too fast if you know what I mean so I might not got all the vitamins and stuff of the food I ate. Eating became a burden for me. I stopped drinking normal water from the supermarket, now I only drink fennel tea and my digestion system got better. Recently I noticed that I can eat more, too.
dont know what to say about the xrays but you should try to walk more, alot.
As much as you can.
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dont know what to say about the xrays but you should try to walk more, alot.
As much as you can.
Thanks for the input! Yeah I try
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I just talked to Dr. Giotikas. He is also pleased with the X-rays and my pin sites.
He said that exact measurement can't be done but I'd be around 3,4cm and I should lengthen 10 more days with 3 clicks per day.
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dont know what to say about the xrays but you should try to walk more, alot.
As much as you can.
taking your advice right now. I walk, walk and walk inside my appartment. Already walked 8 times the distance I walked in the very beginning with some stops inbetween. Still have enough energy to do a couple of more. Each time is like 50 steps.
Actually now I'm sure that I will be able to increase the amount I could walk by a lot...
I will keep track of my progress.
But guys, don't think that I walk like a normal person. Still can't put my whole weight on one foot without being very careful. So my weight is always spread on either both feet or on one more than the other. I still help myself with my arms but try to do it less and my butt still sticks out not because of duck ass but because my heels don't touch the ground completely (when I stand straight, they do when I lean forward with my upper body) and my muscles are still too weak
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Thank you, too! Will you see him in the U.K. or in Athens? Looking forward to read about your experience:)
No. At least my body couldn't cope with that amount. I'm 20 and my right heel couldn't touch the ground already at around 3cm. Also I wouldn't want to wear the frames for such a long time. Each cm means about 1,5months more of the frames.
I’m seeing him in London for a consultation quite soon. I will prepare questions for him and the useful information I’ve been given in this forum from this year will help me compile many of those questions. Once I’ve seen him, I will post the information he gives me on this forum hoping this will be of use to others. I will then need to have a few other consultations with other surgeons. Then I must make a decision. Should I have the operation with this doctor then it will be in Athens.
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How are your pain levels when walking? Are you still taking 1 tramadol and 2 Lyrica, and what are your dosages? I'm close to the same progress as you, but the pain is really difficult, standing in the same place without painkillers is almost impossible, I get a huge amount of pressure on my tibias.
I am also impressed you're able to get 3 turns/4 turns consistently. If I do 3 turns or even 2, the pain in my ankles is incredible. Really astounded by your progress man.
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So when will you start Precice on your Femurs ?
Do you think from your experience that it would be better and easier ?
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I’m seeing him in London for a consultation quite soon. I will prepare questions for him and the useful information I’ve been given in this forum from this year will help me compile many of those questions. Once I’ve seen him, I will post the information he gives me on this forum hoping this will be of use to others. I will then need to have a few other consultations with other surgeons. Then I must make a decision. Should I have the operation with this doctor then it will be in Athens.
Nice of you! Then good luck with your decision :)
So when will you start Precice on your Femurs ?
Do you think from your experience that it would be better and easier ?
I will wait with Stryde because I have just experienced how valuable it is to be able to walk. I want to recover as much as possible, enjoy working legs and then. A year at least. And yes, I think Stryde will be easier. I can't say if Stryde is better for tibias. I just wanted to avoid the possibility of permanent knee pain. (and to save money)
How are your pain levels when walking? Are you still taking 1 tramadol and 2 Lyrica, and what are your dosages? I'm close to the same progress as you, but the pain is really difficult, standing in the same place without painkillers is almost impossible, I get a huge amount of pressure on my tibias.
I am also impressed you're able to get 3 turns/4 turns consistently. If I do 3 turns or even 2, the pain in my ankles is incredible. Really astounded by your progress man.
Except for the serious muscle problem and some minor but not long lasting pains around the knee area I don't feel any major pain while walking. When I had the knee pain my doctor told me to take at least two Tramals a day and Paracetamol after every 6 hours but after the knee pain has stopped I don't feel the need to take so much. Actually I don't even know if Tramal has ever helped me. I still take 2 Lyrica a day and it helps quite well since I don't have any nerve pain anymore. I felt that pressure on my tibias in the beginning of lengthening. I felt pressure around my ankle and some nerve pain when I did the turns in the beginning but then I started to do the turns very slowly, sometimes even with stops im between to avoid that pressure and since then I don't have any pain during lengthening.
Sorry to hear that! I wish I could help you more. Everyone is different though. I know from someone else that he felt the pain always after walking.
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Since I started walking a lot more I feel better. That was the first night I didn't have to use the devil's claw balm to ease the muscle pain because it got better through walking. Today I walked probably at least 20-30 times 50 steps.
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How do I contact Dr. Giotikas?
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How do I contact Dr. Giotikas?
https://www.athensbjr.com/contact.html
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Before I wanted to go to bed this night I had very bad muscle discomfort in my left gluteus muscle again. (maybe due to immobility of 2hours) I walked about 100 steps then but it wasn't enough. I had to apply the devil's claw balm and that helped perfectly to fall asleep. I was able to sleep well until I woke up just recently from my arm and feet which were fallen asleep. Only then I felt the muscle discomfort again (not as bad as hours before). I can highly recommend devil's claw balm to anyone with muscle pain or back pain etc. . It helps immediately.
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Because the relationship of money can be brought back to extend itself?
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Nice of you! Then good luck with your decision :)
I will wait with Stryde because I have just experienced how valuable it is to be able to walk. I want to recover as much as possible, enjoy working legs and then. A year at least. And yes, I think Stryde will be easier. I can't say if Stryde is better for tibias. I just wanted to avoid the possibility of permanent knee pain. (and to save money)
Except for the serious muscle problem and some minor but not long lasting pains around the knee area I don't feel any major pain while walking. When I had the knee pain my doctor told me to take at least two Tramals a day and Paracetamol after every 6 hours but after the knee pain has stopped I don't feel the need to take so much. Actually I don't even know if Tramal has ever helped me. I still take 2 Lyrica a day and it helps quite well since I don't have any nerve pain anymore. I felt that pressure on my tibias in the beginning of lengthening. I felt pressure around my ankle and some nerve pain when I did the turns in the beginning but then I started to do the turns very slowly, sometimes even with stops im between to avoid that pressure and since then I don't have any pain during lengthening.
Sorry to hear that! I wish I could help you more. Everyone is different though. I know from someone else that he felt the pain always after walking.
Thanks for all the info, going to try this combination of painkillers today. One last question, do you know the dosages of the tramadol pills and the lyrica pills?
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Because the relationship of money can be brought back to extend itself?
?
Thanks for all the info, going to try this combination of painkillers today. One last question, do you know the dosages of the tramadol pills and the lyrica pills?
Up to 3 Tramals per day are allowed. You can take one whenever needed but not more than 3. It is recommended to take Tramal when you have eaten something before. Additonally you can take Paracetamol when needed, but not more than 4 per day.
I take one Lyrica in the morning and one in the evening. Never more than two.
You always say Tramadol and I'm talking about Tramal. If there's a big difference the allowed dosages can be different.
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Thanks for all the info, going to try this combination of painkillers today. One last question, do you know the dosages of the tramadol pills and the lyrica pills?
If you are in great pain and in doubt about your doctor I recommend you to write to another doctor and ask for help. You could explain your situation why you can't come personally and offer money for the consultation. With pictures and a good description about your problems maybe another LL doctor could give advice. I don't know if that could work because doctors are probably in general cautious and don't want to interfere with another doctor's treatment but it's worth trying..
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?
Up to 3 Tramals per day are allowed. You can take one whenever needed but not more than 3. It is recommended to take Tramal when you have eaten something before. Additonally you can take Paracetamol when needed, but not more than 4 per day.
I take one Lyrica in the morning and one in the evening. Never more than two.
You always say Tramadol and I'm talking about Tramal. If there's a big difference the allowed dosages can be different.
Because the money is not enough. Can an external calf be taken home to extend it?
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If you are in great pain and in doubt about your doctor I recommend you to write to another doctor and ask for help. You could explain your situation why you can't come personally and offer money for the consultation. With pictures and a good description about your problems maybe another LL doctor could give advice. I don't know if that could work because doctors are probably in general cautious and don't want to interfere with another doctor's treatment but it's worth trying..
Thanks a lot for the information man. SOrry to be bothersome, but how many mg's are the pills your taking? That's what I meant from dosages. Yeah I am going to have to try and check for a new doctor, I'm not entirely comfortable with mine. Does Dr. Giotikas do post-care only? I may consider just flying there and getting his advice on how to handle my current surgery. Do you have his contacts?
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Thanks a lot for the information man. SOrry to be bothersome, but how many mg's are the pills your taking? That's what I meant from dosages. Yeah I am going to have to try and check for a new doctor, I'm not entirely comfortable with mine. Does Dr. Giotikas do post-care only? I may consider just flying there and getting his advice on how to handle my current surgery. Do you have his contacts?
I see, Tramal and Tramadol are the same thing. I guess it's 50mg. Below there's a picture.
http://i.imgur.com/0599NbA.jpg
Not sure about that. That would be a good idea. At least it would assure you if everything is right. You could contact several doctors and see how they respond to you. Than you have options. I always contact this e-mail address: info@athensbjr.com
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Because the money is not enough. Can an external calf be taken home to extend it?
Still not quite sure what you mean. Dr. Giotikas expects the patient to stay in Athens during lengthening phase.
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That's great to hear man! Your diary is slowly but surely making me believe that Giotikas is one of the best options for tibia LL, and If all goes well i'll be doing 5 cm in my tibias in 2022 just like you :) Hang in there my friend, you're so close to the finish line and once you get there you'll be 5 cm taller and a thousand times stronger. Godspeed on your lengthening process and subsequent recovery, and I hope your good luck continues into the future <3
Hey I'm sorry I forgot to answer. Anyways thank you very much!
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I see, Tramal and Tramadol are the same thing. I guess it's 50mg. Below there's a picture.
http://i.imgur.com/0599NbA.jpg
Not sure about that. That would be a good idea. At least it would assure you if everything is right. You could contact several doctors and see how they respond to you. Than you have options. I always contact this e-mail address: info@athensbjr.com
Much appreciated Great321, thanks!
What about your dosages/mg for the Lyrica?
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Stil not quite sure what you mean. Dr. Giotikas expects the patient to stay in Athens during lengthening phase.
Can you give me an extension of 6.3cm and the full price? thank you
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Much appreciated Great321, thanks!
What about your dosages/mg for the Lyrica?
No problem! 75mg
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Can you give me an extension of 6.3cm and the full price? thank you
22.600€ no matter how many cm for externals. you can read everything on the website https://www.athensbjr.com/cosmetic-limb-lengthening.html
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Are you getting stryde done on your tibias or femurs?
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22.600€ no matter how many cm for externals. you can read everything on the website https://www.athensbjr.com/cosmetic-limb-lengthening.html
Will his shelf lose height? How many cm will you lose?
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Are you Happy with how things are going ? How many cm have you done now?
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Update 4,4-4,5cm
I wanted to update several times already but I'm the worst or best procrastinator.
I haven't answered some pm's. Sorry for that, I try to do that sometime.
My PT has shown me how to walk properly on my walker (as straight as possible). In the beginning it didn't seem easy. I also had severe muscle pain around my left knee area but I don't know if it can be linked to that or it has to do with lengthening. First, I was very slow but several days later I got faster. I was in the habit of walking wrongly. I even forgot how a person walks properly (that the heels touch the floor first). My left toes were touching the floor first instead of my heel. Even though my left foot is more stretched its dorsireflexion is bad. But I improved. I still can't stand straight.
My left leg isn't the weaker one anymore. I can easily move it around, instead my right leg's knee is a bit weaker and needs support sometimes. That will change. Anyways my PT did a good job and pushed me to my limits.
A week after my last infection the same pin site started to hurt again really bad and it didn't stop for almost 2 weeks, so I asked for antibiotics again until I got it and it got better the same day. But at that day I felt very tired because I couldn't sleep well due to the pain.
(The worst things for me during LL are: 1. pain that prevents you absolutely from walking 2. Tiredness that makes you so weak that you can't walk 3. Not be able to fall asleep 4. Broken digestion so I can't eat whatever I want or should and that since the hospital release...) on top of that my stomach was feeling bad again. I was very stressed and that led to the worst night (meaning I could barely fall asleep at all for the first time during LL). Being very tired but not being able to fall asleep leaves you alone in the dark with your thoughts and those damn externals (because of them I have to change my position constantly because I start to feel uncomfortable sometime and that also causes sleeping problems. That's very very depressing. I'm happy that at least in the first months until that day (about 2 days ago) I had almost no trouble falling asleep.
I have finished lengthening on the 16th (right leg) and 22nd (left leg). I have lengthened the latter about 3mm more as it was shorter before. There are 6 days inbetween because I sometimes only did 1-2 clicks per day.
In a few days I will fly back to Germany where I continue with professional PT 2-3 times per week. I will have to get X-rays every 3 weeks the first two times and afterwards every 6 weeks. On my last X-rays my callus formation didn't look as good as expected so it will probably take me at least 3 more months for consolidation.
This depresses me, too. 3 months sound so much...
What bothers me at the moment besides sleeping problems and mental problems is the muscle around my left knee area. After a longer time when my leg was bent it is very difficult to stretch it again while I'm on my bed. It's pretty stiff and painful. When I stand up it also takes 1-2 minutes until I can stretch it. Afterwards walking is possible and mostly painless. I think it's because I had to lengthen an already shorter leg more.
Dr. Giotikas and my PT are both confident that I will recover well..I hope they're right.:/ If you ask me now I would have preferred Stryde..
but who knows if that would have been a lot more painful.
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Update 4,4-4,5cm
My PT has shown me how to walk properly on my walker (as straight as possible). In the beginning it didn't seem easy. I also had severe muscle pain around my left knee area but I don't know if it can be linked to that or it has to do with lengthening. First, I was very slow but several days later I got faster. I was in the habit of walking wrongly. I even forgot how a person walks properly (that the heels touch the floor first). My left toes were touching the floor first instead of my heel. Even though my left foot is more stretched its dorsireflexion is bad. But I improved. I still can't stand straight.
My left leg isn't the weaker one anymore. I can easily move it around, instead my right leg's knee is a bit weaker and needs support sometimes. That will change. Anyways my PT did a good job and pushed me to my limits.
You speak a lot of truth in the pain management being the biggest problem. The way pain randomly gets you at strange times of the day and strange places really demotivates you.
You've done really well man, congratulations. Just as a reference, I started 2 weeks before you, and now I'm still 3 weeks behind you, only because of slowing down due to pain. I'm not too worried about it, I'm just going at my own pace, but it really shows you've got a lot of tolerance to push through it. Great job.
I have to ask what you're doing for your PT to walk straight. Could you describe it? Or maybe give us a video? Very interested on how you do PT going onward.
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Hey Great, I’m sorry to learn that it’s a difficult time, I hope the days ahead are better...can you tell me how supportive Dr Giotikas has been about this overall..? Did he help you with finding accommodation, is he responsive? If I am coming to do this surgery alone with no family etc do you think I’ll cope? Can you tell me how much the accommodation is approx? Sorry for bombarding with so many questions..
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How do you feel about Giotikas? Do you think he is skilled? Have you seen other patients apart from zakika?
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You speak a lot of truth in the pain management being the biggest problem. The way pain randomly gets you at strange times of the day and strange places really demotivates you.
You've done really well man, congratulations. Just as a reference, I started 2 weeks before you, and now I'm still 3 weeks behind you, only because of slowing down due to pain. I'm not too worried about it, I'm just going at my own pace, but it really shows you've got a lot of tolerance to push through it. Great job.
I have to ask what you're doing for your PT to walk straight. Could you describe it? Or maybe give us a video? Very interested on how you do PT going onward.
The last few days I stopped taken any painkillers. The pain I had was never a lasting one luckily. Also I feel like I could have stopped a lot earlier as I didn't feel that they made a major difference.
Pain was not too bad, only for 2-3 days when I couldn't walk because of weak knees and infection pain was annoying when I bent my leg but endurable.
We will both finish this soon enough and will be gifted with a new height :)
Thank you for your words. Once I'm in Germany I will upload a video.
Hey Great, I’m sorry to learn that it’s a difficult time, I hope the days ahead are better...can you tell me how supportive Dr Giotikas has been about this overall..? Did he help you with finding accommodation, is he responsive? If I am coming to do this surgery alone with no family etc do you think I’ll cope? Can you tell me how much the accommodation is approx? Sorry for bombarding with so many questions..
Hey, I feel great now :) Physically and mentally. Especially walking helps me with my digestion problem, because of that I also can sleep better. And my mood is the best when I'm not tired during the day. Dr. Giotikas was really supportive by being very responsive. As a patient you can alaways write or call him. I didn't really ask for accommodation help, I just looked for appartments through airbnb and sent the link to his e-mail so he could check if it fits my needs. I couldn't have done this alone. I can write you a list of things I needed help with in the future, then you can think about how you would do it on your own or with the help of a caretaker. I paid almost 2.000€ for 2,5months.
How do you feel about Giotikas? Do you think he is skilled? Have you seen other patients apart from zakika?
I trust Dr. Giotikas and Dr. Giannakos. Apart from some numb skin areas around my lower legs (that will probably get better after a year -speaking from another experience-), I'm in a good state actually and I haven't had major problems so far. I have only had contact with zakika.
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Do you have nerve problems? Can you move your foot Up and download?
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I had some nerve pain in my left foot but it disappeared. I don't take Lyrica anymore. I have more dorsireflexion or how you call it in my right foot than left one but I think it will improve with time. Meaning I have more difficulties touching the floor with my left heel first.
I'm back home again since the end of last month. I stopped taking pain killers but yesterday I started again with one tramal per day because especially after I sat a longer time or after sleeping there's pressure inside my legs and knees when I lift them after having put my weight on them. But after some time it gets easier. I don't know why (maybe because I took more painkillers) but in Athens I was able to get up and walk faster.
At home I sometimes sleep for almost 12 hours (with stops inbetween where I wake up), bathroom, breakfast, learn another language, read the news, ps4, surfing etc. Mentally I feel very good (except for the thoughts where I wish to be able to walk again) My mother still helps me a lot.
My room is in the first floor and the steps to downstairs are too high and too narrow. Climbing stairs is not possible. My right knee is not strong enough and bending my right knee while putting my whole weight on it can be painful suddenly. Too dangerous. I rather sit on the step and climb down and up while sitting but getting down or up isn't easy either. I need support for that. Getting in and out the car can be tricky as our parkway and street is not that even. On top of that we have winter. So in case there will be snow or ice outside I have to cancel my PT appointment or I call a special organization who helps transfer people in wheelchairs.
My muscle discomfort has 99% vanished since I arrived here..maybe it was the mattress in Athens
My right foot's stretching got better, but I am sure as soon as the frames get taken off it will be a lot better because there's one pin that hurts a lot when I stretch my foot and while I can move my left foot to the right and left, I can't do the same with the right foot mainly due to that one or both pins at my ankle.
I try to do PT exercises on my own everyday, leaning against the wall, lifting my legs, cycling. Yesterday I walked for an hour in my room. Sometimes I stand while reading sth.
Next week I'll have two PT sessions with a physiotherapist who has seen fixateur externes but isn't experiences with them, still I trust her...it's just strengthening my muscles and stretching, I can tell her what my PT in Athens did with me
I just hope that I will be able to walk before summer because I want go on with life
Next week I want to go to the radiology for new X-rays.
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Six-axis TSF can correct complex leg deformities
This doctor's TSF is triaxial and it seems that it can only be used for limb lengthening
I want to know if I can correct my o-leg at the same time during the operation
^_^
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Six-axis TSF can correct complex leg deformities
This doctor's TSF is triaxial and it seems that it can only be used for limb lengthening
I want to know if I can correct my o-leg at the same time during the operation
^_^
Yes, Dr. Giotikas mentioned during the consultation that he will use the frame differently as for lengthening it doesn't need to be too complex. You should send him an e-mail with your question.
Anyways here are my new X-rays:
I expected more. I didn't post the lateral (sideways) view on which you can see that there's still a lot that has to grow :/ But well I have at least two more months anyways...
Left leg
(https://i.imgur.com/Lwhz4bt.png)
Left leg
(https://i.imgur.com/nU73uO5.png)
Right leg
(https://i.imgur.com/0gK4NN7.png)
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For this doctor you need about an extra 4000 Euros for complications and 3,500 for accommodation, food, a carer initially for some hours and the transfers from your apartment to where the physiotherapists are. If I’m not mistaken, it’s 3 times per week you must attend physiotherapy and each transfer costs 30 Euros. I think for externals aim to have at least 30,000 Euros in total.
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For this doctor you need about an extra 4000 Euros for complications and 3,500 for accommodation, food, a carer initially for some hours and the transfers from your apartment to where the physiotherapists are. If I’m not mistaken, it’s 3 times per week you must attend physiotherapy and each transfer costs 30 Euros. I think for externals aim to have at least 30,000 Euros in total.
Luckily I didn't have any complications. My accommodation was 2.000€ for 2,5months. Groceries are expensive here compared to Germany. Didn't need a carer because of family.
If you check Dr. Giotikas website the PT after the hospital seems to not be included anymore?. I don't know if it was a mistake or a real change...
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Physiotherapy is included during your stay in Athens, what’s not included are the transfer costs/ transportation costs. This is what I see on the website and also it’s the info. I was given by them.
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now I see it, too. They just changed the wording
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The last two days I felt better than the last weeks. The pain in my legs while walking has decreased and I'm able to get up and walk faster than before. I talked to Dr. Giotikas per videocall, he is pleased with my X-Rays and encouraged me to keep stretching everyday. He suggested me to try to do some steps without the walker. Right now I can't imagine that but since the pain has decreased, maybe it will be possible someday. I feel very good mentally.
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When you do stryde with him, does he perform IT band release on you?
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When you do stryde with him, does he perform IT band release on you?
not sure yet. No he didn't perform IT band release on me.
Some days I feel very good with no pain and where I have no trouble walking a lot with my walker. The next day walking feels very difficult again and I'm very slow, also because of pain. Yesterday was one of the days where my body felt almost too tired and too weak to walk at all because I hadn't have much sleep the night before.
I was lucky that I had only two infections in Athens so far which (its pain) were gone with antibiotics the next day. I might have another one as I feel pain at one of the pins when I walk. It's not near the knee or ankle luckily. If it doesn't get better I will contact Dr. Giotikas.
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There is no reason to perform IT band release if you are doing tibia. IT band is for femurs only.
In tibias, the risk is achilles tendom lengthening, but Dr. Giotikas does not perform it. At least with tsf, with stryde I don't know.
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Didn't you think it would be better doing quadrilateral than doing tibias and after that femurs? Did you discuss it with dr. Giotikas?
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Didn't you think it would be better doing quadrilateral than doing tibias and after that femurs? Did you discuss it with dr. Giotikas?
If Stryde would have been available a few months ago I would have signed up for quadrilateral. But it wasn't. But now I'm happy that I only did tibias only first. It's hard enough already.
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If Stryde would have been available a few months ago I would have signed up for quadrilateral. But it wasn't. But now I'm happy that I only did tibias only first. It's hard enough already.
But you could do one leg first and than the other. And it's possible quadriletaeral with TSF on tibias.
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Since today (after almost 4 months) I know that my digestion problems were due to Cloristridium germs (diarrhea) that can be a side effect from Antibiotics. Or maybe I got infected by somebody else. I don't know for certain. I'm in the hospital were I get medication. Hopefully it helps. Maybe that is the reason why my bone growth is so slow ...?
I was also told that I don't have a pin infection. Some good news at least.
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when do you plan to LL your femurs?
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If I were you, I'd make only single surgery with stride in the femurs aiming 8cm.
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Comparison of X-Rays (22.01.2019 vs. 20.03.2019)
left tibia front https://imgur.com/FZXasVT (https://imgur.com/FZXasVT)
left tibia side https://imgur.com/8HjzYiI (https://imgur.com/8HjzYiI)
right tibia front https://imgur.com/dgvbhKY (https://imgur.com/dgvbhKY)
right tibia side https://imgur.com/TFw0fDx (https://imgur.com/TFw0fDx)
It's less development than I had wished but since I had the Clostridium difficile germs, I probably couldn't absorb all the nutrients I had needed. Now I wait for Dr. Giotikas' response.
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when do you plan to LL your femurs?
Not sure yet.
If I were you, I'd make only single surgery with stride in the femurs aiming 8cm.
too late it for it now:) Personally I think 8cm for only one segment is too much. Other LLers already mentioned that others had noticed that their femurs look too long. Also 8cm is more risky.
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Hello friend, I see that your consolidation is a bit slow, what type of body do you have ectomorph ?. Until when do you think you would use the framework and what would you advise me to do purely external or LON or LATN?
I hope you do very well and my best wishes to you
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Hello friend, I see that your consolidation is a bit slow, what type of body do you have ectomorph ?. Until when do you think you would use the framework and what would you advise me to do purely external or LON or LATN?
I hope you do very well and my best wishes to you
I had to google the body types and neither of them really fit me. So I'm not sure, sorry.
I can imagine that it will take me two more months. That's like a nightmare for me honestly because walking didn't get easier with time, rather the opposite. Mentally I'm fine though. I know for sure that without the frames I would progress a lot faster concerning walking. I'm not in a rush luckily, I have 6 more months until my studies continue.
If you can and want to spend more than 30k for one single surgery
, and if you don't have enough time (like about 9+months to recover for fully external),
and if you are willing to take the 3% risk of getting permanent knee pain afterwards
then go for either LON or LATN (I don't know which is better, I only know since only recently that Dr. Giotikas offers LON for about 30k.
Thank you :)
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My biggest concern is that if any of the pins get infected again and don't heal by themselves I need to take antibiotics.
Antibiotics are my biggest enemy though because that could mean that the clostridium germs "attack" my body again as the good bacteria which normally defends us from the bad bacteria etc. dies from the antibiotics.
So far none of my pins got infected again since I got home. Whenever a pin feels weird I use some form of PVP iodine ointment, recommended by another doctor.
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I hope you recover soon, remember to take calcium and a diet rich in protein and minerals. I plan on going to Russia with doctors Solomin and Kulesh of whom there are good references, and its price is more attractive than Gyotikas. The problem is that if it is from a South American country and the visa is only for 90 days, I will send an email to see. Anyway take good care of yourself and try to do PT every day, do not forget the diet
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I hope you recover soon, remember to take calcium and a diet rich in protein and minerals. I plan on going to Russia with doctors Solomin and Kulesh of whom there are good references, and its price is more attractive than Gyotikas. The problem is that if it is from a South American country and the visa is only for 90 days, I will send an email to see. Anyway take good care of yourself and try to do PT every day, do not forget the diet
Thanks, yes I drink a lot of milk every day and extra calcium pills. Also I drink protein shakes. Vitamin C, Selen, Magnesium, Vitamin D, collagen protein...
I wish you good luck!
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Talked with Dr. Giotikas today.
He is pleased with my X-rays and said that my bone growth is just fine and normal. He doesn't believe that my Clostridium difficile problem slowed it down. Dr. G suggested that if I want I can let the frames be removed and replace it with a nail but I declined it. I'm not in a rush, yes wearing the frames for such a long time is hell, but it's just a few more months.
I told him that I use Povidon iodine ointment on some of my pins but he told me not to continue with it, instead chlorhexidine 2% is recommended.
From tomorrow on I shall shorten my legs for 3 days for 3mm total. Wait a day. And lengthen them again, 3mm in 3 days. For 3 weeks. That might help the bone growth.
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I have asked Dr. Giotikas if I can lengthen a few mm more. I mean I have to wear the frames maybe a couple of months more. It has to be worth it. He said that lengthening after 5 months is not common but if I want I can do it. So I will do 6mm more during the next three weeks. Then it will be 4,9cm more in total. Let's just say 5cm :)
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Dr Giotikas don't let you lengthen your tibia more than 5cm?
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Of course he does. 5-6cm is the recommended maximum. But I initially stopped lengthening 3 months ago. To lengthen a lot more now wouldn't be very logical. And he knows that my goal was about 5cm, not more.
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What is the maximum he let his clients lengthen tibia? 6cm?
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What is the maximum he let his clients lengthen tibia? 6cm?
I actually can't exactly remember. You can use the search function to find the answer though before I give you any false response :) or just email athensbjr
Anyways...since I take 2Paracetamol 500 in the morning,2 in the afternoon and sometimes 2 in the evening walking is a lot easier again
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It's a coincidence that the 3 patients of Giotikas here on forum is doing 5cm on tibia. I'll email them.
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They answered
Thank you for your email. Max lengthening in tibia generally is 6cm at our center.
We remain at your disposal for any further information and assistance.
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They answered
Sounds good:)
jcayabo asked me in the past about how my PT showed me to walk straight. I unfortunately forgot to answer. In the end it was very simple. She just walked normally herself but very slowly to demonstrate each step. I just tried to do the same while balancing my body with the walker. I can imagine that walking is so natural to us that many of us aren't really aware of how we actually walk. During LL the way of walking changes and you get used to wrong habits. So I advise LLers to watch other people walking, ask them to do it very slowly or watch youtube videos on low speed.
Also the longer I stand on my feet the easier it gets to walk afterwards with less pressure from the pins.
For two days my left knee was hurting again severely and I know why. I had stretched it a lot the day before. It was the same situation when I was in Athens and the physiotherapists had stretched my feet a lot.
My right foot is now more flexible than the left one. Months ago it was the other way around.
Some pins sometimes hurt, underneath one of them there was a bubble like thing twice already. When I pressed it, reddish fluid came out. Sometimes the skin around a certain pin feels like burning when you touch it(not hot)
The symptoms of the clostridium difficile aren't completely gone.
I got used to wearing the frames. Time actually passes very fast. But I'm lucky as I rarely have to go outside and I have time until next autumn.
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Hey! It’s good you’ve done it at a time when you don’t need to go out. Sounds like things are going good, you’ve come a long way. Just make sure the pinsite stays dry.
I wanted to ask does Dr Goitikas accept payment in euro or $?
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Hey! It’s good you’ve done it at a time when you don’t need to go out. Sounds like things are going good, you’ve come a long way. Just make sure the pinsite stays dry.
I wanted to ask does Dr Goitikas accept payment in euro or $?
Yeah I'm happy about this. Today I was sitting outside in the garden when I noticed a little fruit fly on one of the pins. It was kind of stuck there. I cleaned it afterwards.
I paid in euros. So I didn't have to think about that. I don't know sorry!
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Update
I just tried to walk with crutches for the first time. It was possible! :D I'm still very slow and careful but I will try to walk more and more with crutches than with the walker. But standing up from a seating position won't be possible without the walker, there's too much pressure inside the legs from the pins for that.
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dope diary man ! looking to do surgery with Giotikas maybe this year, still considering all my options but Giotikas is definitely a strong contestant for me
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dope diary man ! looking to do surgery with Giotikas maybe this year, still considering all my options but Giotikas is definitely a strong contestant for me
thanks!
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My biggest concern is that if any of the pins get infected again and don't heal by themselves I need to take antibiotics.
Antibiotics are my biggest enemy though because that could mean that the clostridium germs "attack" my body again as the good bacteria which normally defends us from the bad bacteria etc. dies from the antibiotics.
So far none of my pins got infected again since I got home. Whenever a pin feels weird I use some form of PVP iodine ointment, recommended by another doctor.
By using strong probiotics after antibiotics i believe you can minimize negative effects of it. I got some allergies because antibiotics but using about 1/2 year Dr Ohhiras probiots (which are expensive, but also seem to be best) i got rid of it.
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By using strong probiotics after antibiotics i believe you can minimize negative effects of it. I got some allergies because antibiotics but using about 1/2 year Dr Ohhiras probiots (which are expensive, but also seem to be best) i got rid of it.
Thanks for the advice, I used to take "Probielle" and now I try "Mutaflor". It's quite expensive.
My shin was itching a bit but since both of my shin under the knee are numb it feels really unpleasant to scratch over the skin. I really hope that it will change sometime...it's not the whole shin, don't know how to explain it exactly, it's a specific big area
You normally aren't aware of the skin being numb unless it's itching. Let's see how it'll be once I wear normal pants ...
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Hey Great321
Awesome dairy and thank you.
As far as payment, you mentioned in euro. I'm in the US, can you give me the steps on payment like do you pay Mediterraneo hospital or Dr. Giotikas's Athens Bone & Joint Reconstruction Centre (AthensBJR)?
Did you use an escrow company or direct deposit which is kinda risk with all the scam out there nowaday?
On his website it states:
All payments should be concluded prior to your arrival to Greece. Payments can be made by direct money transfer to bank account. An itinerary will be sent to your email address upon confirmation of payment.
Would you mind emailing me or IM your itinerary, just want to cover all the bases. I'm planning on doing my LLS with him, but are too scar of being scammed because its a lot of money and I'll have to refinace my house to do it.
Hope you are well and recovering.
Thanks
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Thank you, too!
At first I got an e-mail where it stated to transfer the money all to one bank account. I guess Dr. Giotikas would have transfered each amount to the right places for you. But I didn't do it and couldn't reply for a long time as I was travelling. Later then they reminded me again, this time there were three different accounts and the specific amount of money you have to transfer to each account. It's Mediplat, the hospital and Dr. Giotikas.
I did it via a transfer form of as it is too much money for online banking. Now back in Germany I asked them about all the invoices as I want to ask my health insurance for money. athensbjr sent me all the invoices where there are even detailed information about the hospital's medication each day.
What do you mean with scam? I can assure you that you will get the surgery with all the care even after the surgery until you recover.
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Update 4,9cm
Today again my lengthening phase is over.
I shortened and lengthened over the last 3-4 weeks as my doctor recommended.
In 2 or 3 weeks I'll have my next X-rays done.
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Congratulations.
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Thank you for posting your diary. I am inclined to go to the same Doctor (although in like 2 years, want to finish Uni).
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Congratulations.
thank you!
Thank you for posting your diary. I am inclined to go to the same Doctor (although in like 2 years, want to finish Uni).
good luck! you'll have enough time to watch us recover and then make your decision ;D
For about over a week now I feel some pressure in my left fibula when I walk much and put my whole weight on my left leg. Soon I'll have my next X-Rays. I really hope that I won't need another surgery.
For some days I felt an uncomfortable tingling around my upper shins where the cut was made. Like needles. It usually occured when I used the cycling machine for too long. It had stopped when I rested again. This time it even bothered me during lying in bed. Now that sensation is mostly gone again.
For another three days my right knee was hurting due to one of the pins and walking was really difficult. I couldn't fully weight bear on my right leg. But on the fourth day the problem vanished again. Sometimes when that happens in the morning I just have to stand a longer time. And put more and more weight on the hurting knee. Sometime the knee feels normal again afterwards.
For the last few days my legs became very itchy for the whole day. Just like in the very beginning after the surgery. Maybe that's a good sign. As it usually means that sth is healing.
There are two pins that are irritated from time to time causing some pain and oozing but after some time it gets better. So luckily no infection so far.
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Hi , So when exactly will you star Stryde on your femurs ??
& did you see any patients with giotikas doing stryde ??
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My X-rays from the 3rd of May. Today I'll talk to Dr. Giotikas about them. I have lengthend 6mm the past month, so for sure there is not as much development than it hopefully would have been without the lengthening.
RIGHT FRONT TIBIA & FIBULA: https://imgur.com/FHB2C9S
RIGHT SIDE TIBIA & FIBULA: https://imgur.com/BL48I5r
LEFT FRONT TIBIA & FIBULA: https://imgur.com/GHFvUF3
LEFT SIDE TIBIA & FIBULA: https://imgur.com/IkAdFL3
Hi , So when exactly will you star Stryde on your femurs ??
& did you see any patients with giotikas doing stryde ??
I don't know yet. No by the time I was there, Stryde wasn't available yet.
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My X-rays from the 3rd of May. Today I'll talk to Dr. Giotikas about them. I have lengthend 6mm the past month, so for sure there is not as much development than it hopefully would have been without the lengthening.
RIGHT FRONT TIBIA & FIBULA: https://imgur.com/FHB2C9S
RIGHT SIDE TIBIA & FIBULA: https://imgur.com/BL48I5r
LEFT FRONT TIBIA & FIBULA: https://imgur.com/GHFvUF3
LEFT SIDE TIBIA & FIBULA: https://imgur.com/IkAdFL3
I don't know yet. No by the time I was there, Stryde wasn't available yet.
How was the quality of physical therapy in Greece? I would like to stay in the apartment as well as you. However, the level of physical therapy will be lower compared to rehabilitation centers. What caused you to stop extending? Is that even a little related to giotikas or the lack of physical therapy?
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How was the quality of physical therapy in Greece? I would like to stay in the apartment as well as you. However, the level of physical therapy will be lower compared to rehabilitation centers. What caused you to stop extending? Is that even a little related to giotikas or the lack of physical therapy?
There are different PTs. You might have 2-3 differents ones. In my case one of them did a lot of strengthening of the muscles, the other one did more of stretching. I'm not a professional so I can't say anything about the quality. I guess that those PTs who take care of us already had some experience with other patients. So you won't be their first case. I think the only difference between apartment and rehab centre is the amount of PT per week you get and the cost but no difference in quality per session.
I stopped lengthening in Athens because I had those bad muscle problems (caused by the bed mattress) and my right heel was more away from the ground than the left one. And I didn't want to worsen it. But now the muscle pain is long gone and my right achilles tendon got better with stretching.
For the future I try to be in the sun for a longer time. Maybe the natural Vitamin D source will help better with the regeneration. So far there wasn't much sunshine out there and until April the sun's angle in the sky wasn't right anyway to get enough sun for Vitamin D (I read somewhere)
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Is my impression, or the giotikas newspapers are not having good bone regeneration?
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Great321, do you take any meds, supplements or injections to accelerate the consolidation?
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Is my impression, or the giotikas newspapers are not having good bone regeneration?
zakika had good bone regeneration :)
Great321, do you take any meds, supplements or injections to accelerate the consolidation?
Only supplements: Vitamin D, Calcium, Magnesium, collagen
And for preventing infections: Selen, Vitamin C
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zakika had good bone regeneration
Certainly Zakika was staying at the rehabilitation center. Is there anyone else who has recovered from staying in the apartment?
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Certainly Zakika was staying at the rehabilitation center. Is there anyone else who has recovered from staying in the apartment?
No he was staying in an apartment, too. He took a lot of supplements from the very beginning though.
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No he was staying in an apartment, too. He took a lot of supplements from the very beginning though.
Thank you for telling me Great 321! I also want to take supplements at an early stage. I hope you will recover well!
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Thank you for telling me Great 321! I also want to take supplements at an early stage. I hope you will recover well!
You're welcome! I was careful as I didn't want to have pre consolidation during lengthening. Thank you, too!
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zakika had good bone regeneration :)
Only supplements: Vitamin D, Calcium, Magnesium, collagen
And for preventing infections: Selen, Vitamin C
are the supplements included in the price? are those recommended by Giotikas?
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Hey Great321
Did you stay at the Theseus rehabilitation center?
If so, can you tell me more of your stay at the Theseus rehabilitation center?
How was the staff?
How was the food?
Are there a jacuzzi there for sore muscle for internal Precice or is that no good for CLL?
Where did you stay after leaving Theseus?
Did Dr. Giotikas assistant help find you a place?
Thanks
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Is my impression, or the giotikas newspapers are not having good bone regeneration?
when doing external tibias, one can expect 1.5-2 months time per cm lengthened.
i expect great321 to be near 100% by mid june/mid july
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are the supplements included in the price? are those recommended by Giotikas?
Only Vitamin D is included in the price during the lengthening phase. Only Vitamin D is recommended and eating meat every day.
Hey Great321
Did you stay at the Theseus rehabilitation center?
If so, can you tell me more of your stay at the Theseus rehabilitation center?
How was the staff?
How was the food?
Are there a jacuzzi there for sore muscle for internal Precice or is that no good for CLL?
Where did you stay after leaving Theseus?
Did Dr. Giotikas assistant help find you a place?
Thanks
No, I stayed in an apartment after the hospital. But at Theseus I did my PT 2-3 times a week. The staff there was nice. I stayed in an airbnb apartment in Alimos. You can find an apartment on your own and send the link to Dr. Giotikas assistant. They will check it, too. (If it's suitable)
when doing external tibias, one can expect 1.5-2 months time per cm lengthened.
i expect great321 to be near 100% by mid june/mid july
I hope so! But rather at least mid july.
I talked to Dr. Giotikas yesterday evening. He said he sees development of bone regeneration but of course it's not that much as I lengthend 6mm last month. I need at least 2 more months. By the end of June I have to send new X-rays. To encourage the bone growth he recommended me to shorten my tibias by 2mm again to take away the tension. :/
I bought this device: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B073W9JCDZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Should have bought it earlier as it really helps to stretch the Achilles tendons. Something similar is used at the Theseus Rehab Center for PT. This one only bears 60kg though. There are for sure other devices, too.
(https://i.imgur.com/znQg51N.png)
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Thank you Great321!!!!!!!!!! Hope all is well.
I'm creating a note pad of all the notes from you, Zakika, and Jolien diary for Dr.G. You and Jolien are still active on this forum. I'm trying to put it all together for my trip to Aten if I don't do it with Dr. R. Since I'm doing it alone without any help, Dr. G and the rehab for a month then to an Airbnb plus saving ~20k for my next CLL for my tibia sounds good.
Your apartment in Alimos, was it in a safe area and was it wheelchair friendly?
Does Dr. G provide transport to/back Theseus for PT?
Did you hire an assistant for like food, shopping and cleaning? If so can you give me the contact or can Dr. G assistant help with referals?
Thank You
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Thank you Great321!!!!!!!!!! Hope all is well.
I'm creating a note pad of all the notes from you, Zakika, and Jolien diary for Dr.G. You and Jolien are still active on this forum. I'm trying to put it all together for my trip to Aten if I don't do it with Dr. R. Since I'm doing it alone without any help, Dr. G and the rehab for a month then to an Airbnb plus saving ~20k for my next CLL for my tibia sounds good.
Your apartment in Alimos, was it in a safe area and was it wheelchair friendly?
Does Dr. G provide transport to/back Theseus for PT?
Did you hire an assistant for like food, shopping and cleaning? If so can you give me the contact or can Dr. G assistant help with referals?
Thank You
I'll send you sth about the apartment tomorrow.
Yes, there's a wheelchair van transporting the patients to the apartment and back each time. Nog included in the price though, ask them about that via mail.
Dr. G team can assist you with a care taker. I don't know if they choose the cheapest or more exoensive ones though. I didn't need one as I had my family member with me.
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Update
Just right know I figured out how to walk a lot faster with the crutches. Pretty happy about it. That's only possible because my right leg got stronger compared to a few days ago. Every day can be different.
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Update
Just right know I figured out how to walk a lot faster with the crutches. Pretty happy about it. That's only possible because my right leg got stronger compared to a few days ago. Every day can be different.
Great321, did dr Giotikas show you any of his previous/current cLL patients?
Can someone ask to see some of his patients?
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Great321, did dr Giotikas show you any of his previous/current cLL patients?
Can someone ask to see some of his patients?
I didn't ask for it. But I met zakika before my surgery via this forum.
But you can ask Dr. Giotikas and he'll talk to his patients, like he talked to me. I agreed to be visited by someone.
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I didn't ask for it. But I met zakika before my surgery via this forum.
But you can ask Dr. Giotikas and he'll talk to his patients, like he talked to me. I agreed to be visited by someone.
Just to clarify, you met him in real life?
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Just to clarify, you met him in real life?
Yes. Before the surgery and sometimes during PT. (If you're talking about zakika)
The other guy who was interested in LL met me in my apartment.
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Great321, did you take any Muscle relaxant medication? For example dr Paley recommends Valium 5 mg
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Great321, did you take any Muscle relaxant medication? For example dr Paley recommends Valium 5 mg
Not that I know of.
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Video of me walking
Imgur only allows short clips, so I had to shorten it. In my mind it feels faster than it looks like but it's a huge improvement. I should have exercised a lot more than I would be further by now. But I still have enough time. Also I could have walked more with a straight posture but I didn't think about it I guess.
https://imgur.com/a/UqvQquN
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Video of me walking
Imgur only allows short clips, so I had to shorten it. In my mind it feels faster than it looks like but it's a huge improvement. I should have exercised a lot more than I would be further by now. But I still have enough time. Also I could have walked more with a straight posture but I didn't think about it I guess.
https://imgur.com/a/UqvQquN
Your walk looks very good.
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Your walk looks very good.
Thank you!
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Hey Great,
Just saw the video of you walking, May i ask u a couple of Qs :
___________________________________________________
1) How long did you stay with the frames on ? If you are using pure external i believe 10 months with these frames right?
2) KNEE Pain ? Ankle Pain ? - How do u feel & do u feel that with pure external u avoided these problems ?
3) How much total gain did u achieve ?
4) When are u doing stryde on femurs? from your experience with pain do u feel that if u wouldve done internal femurs it would hurt more ?
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Dear,
did you switched from a walker to crutches recently? and if so did you really felt the difference? because I really feel I'm not progressing at all with my walker :-(
Kind regards!!
Jolien
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Hey Great,
Just saw the video of you walking, May i ask u a couple of Qs :
___________________________________________________
1) How long did you stay with the frames on ? If you are using pure external i believe 10 months with these frames right?
2) KNEE Pain ? Ankle Pain ? - How do u feel & do u feel that with pure external u avoided these problems ?
3) How much total gain did u achieve ?
4) When are u doing stryde on femurs? from your experience with pain do u feel that if u wouldve done internal femurs it would hurt more ?
1) I'm still wearing the frames. It's been 5 months since I stopped lengthening. (except for the 3 weeks of lengthening last month) And it's been 7 months since the surgery. I believe that I have to wear the frames for about 2-3 months more. So yes, it takes about 8-10 months.
2) The pain while wearing the frame is something that can go away after the frames are taken off. More important is the question if there is pain that lasts longer after the frames. I don't know about that yet.
I think that everyone will experience different problems. Some will have more problems with their ankle, some more with their knee or another area of their legs. Luckily I haven't had ankle problems yet. But occasionally I had and I have knee pain. I'm sure that it's only because of the pins. Either you'll experience knee pain because of the pin site being inflamed or its existence in general. But so far every pain I had disappeared again by itself or with the help of movement. (Like bending my knee although it was hurting- that helped) Over the past especially my right knee was making problems from time to time only for 2-3 days in a row. Then it was fine again.
3) I had stoppend lengthening in December. Then I had achieved about 4,3cm. Last month in April I was allowed to lengthen another 6mm. So I had gained 4,9cm. But now that my bone growth isn't very fast Dr. Giotikas recommended to shorten for 2mm again in order to take away the tension. That could help. After the next X-rays I'll know if I can get back those 2mm. So for now about 4,7cm.
4) I don't know yet. I want to rest for a few years. As I haven't had experience regarding internal nails I don't know if internal femur would be more or less painfull.
Dear,
did you switched from a walker to crutches recently? and if so did you really felt the difference? because I really feel I'm not progressing at all with my walker :-(
Kind regards!!
Jolien
The first time I walked with crutches was on April the 7th. So not that long ago. Before I was uncertain if that was possible. But I could have started earlier probably. It takes some courage and patience as the first steps will be very slow and a bit dangerous if the legs aren't strong enough. But it'll get better. And you have to carefully figure out how to use the crutches in order not to fall.
For example: When you want to make a step with your right leg, the crutch in your right hand has to be behid your body on the side while the crutch on your left hand has to be in front of your body.
You are still in the beginning so don't worry. Also since you're doing LON you'll progress faster once the frames are taken off.
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Yesterday evening I was stretching my left foot like always. Suddenly after a certain movement I felt a sharpe pain in my tibia. Half an hour later I walked to the bathroom and back and already noticed that the pain was increasing. The pain was spreading in my whole left leg. After 1-2 hours the pain decreased again and I was able to sleep. Today I felt better but when I walked again that certain spot made itself noticable again so I have to be careful not spread the pain again by putting too much weight on my left leg.
These are the days you feel frustrated because the pain slows down your recovery/mobility and there's the uncertainty of what that pain is and when or if the pain will go away.
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Update
That problem went mostly away again today (17th May).
I was able to walk again with full weight bearing on my left leg. On the 16th while the left leg was weak I had to use my right leg mostly when I stood or moved around. Just that one day made my right leg stronger than it was before. I really noticed this now when I was using the crutches again. I can walk faster now as the stronger the legs are the less you have to adjust the crutches for balance and that saves time. I actually prefer the crutches over the walker as I feel less pain in my legs then.
Unfortunately for a few weeks now I have an issue with my left leg. Whenever I want to sit down it gets stiff and cramped, a bit painful too, then when I'm sitting only after about 5 seconds the tension disappears gradually. Today it started to get uncomfortably stiff (only the tibia area) when I walk. I can move it around normally but there's a big pressure. Probably the muscles around the pins under the knee... the X-rays don't indicate a problem. I'm sure it'll be fine again once the frames are off. I guess that the stiffening around that area of my left tibia is a reaction of my body to avoid pain.
Also one nerve of my right lower leg makes itself noticable uncomfortable when I move my leg in certain positions.
Today I also felt a sharp uncomfortable sensation around one of the pins of my right ankle whenever I slowly took off my foot from the floor.
So every day is different. Even after 7 months you'll get surprised by new pain. The chance is high that it will disappear on its own though.
At the end of this day I'm happy though because of my walking progression.
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How's your strength when going from sitting to standing? Are you doing any PT to work on this? What about stairs?
As I said before, we're around the same level. My walking has improved immensely, I can pretty much walk with 1 forearm crutch. And with near-perfect gait and motion. Maybe a little tweaks needed.
However, stairs still need some work, as does standing from sitting position in my case. What about you?
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And yes, the new pains are infuriating. It can kill your motivation. Stay strong man.
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How's your strength when going from sitting to standing? Are you doing any PT to work on this? What about stairs?
As I said before, we're around the same level. My walking has improved immensely, I can pretty much walk with 1 forearm crutch. And with near-perfect gait and motion. Maybe a little tweaks needed.
However, stairs still need some work, as does standing from sitting position in my case. What about you?
I lost the ability to stand up on my own after the surgery. I don't think that strength would help until the frames are there. So I don't do much . Pretty sure that after the frames it'll be a lot easier.
I will test the stairs soon now that my legs are both stronger.
My walking abilities do progress luckily too. But whenever I sit for several minutes and want to stand up and walk I can't do that immidietaly. I need about a minute and more until I feel stable on my feet. But that's again the pressure from the pins. What about you? Can you walk immidietaly after standing up?
And yes, the new pains are infuriating. It can kill your motivation. Stay strong man.
True. Thanks! You, too!
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Great, can you tell us your overall impression on Dr G?
Is he accountable, experienced and skilled enough
Did he encourage it band and tendon release and these stuff
How much would you rate him compared to US Doctors?
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I lost the ability to stand up on my own after the surgery. I don't think that strength would help until the frames are there. So I don't do much . Pretty sure that after the frames it'll be a lot easier.
I will test the stairs soon now that my legs are both stronger.
My walking abilities do progress luckily too. But whenever I sit for several minutes and want to stand up and walk I can't do that immidietaly. I need about a minute and more until I feel stable on my feet. But that's again the pressure from the pins. What about you? Can you walk immidietaly after standing up?
True. Thanks! You, too!
I need some sort of support to stand, at least 1 forearm crutch and pushing against the chair/table/whatever. I can walk immediately, but my ballerina is a bit stiff until I walk a good 10 meters and everything is okay, the ballerina is temporary and my feet go normal. All of the pressure for me is on my ankles, but it's not so bad and I can walk immediately.
Are you saying you haven't done any stairs training at all?? Oh man, I hope that's not what you're saying.
Are you walking unaided? With a zimmer? With crutches?
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Great, can you tell us your overall impression on Dr G?
Is he accountable, experienced and skilled enough
Did he encourage it band and tendon release and these stuff
How much would you rate him compared to US Doctors?
Dr. Giotikas is a reliable doctor who you can contact all the time during and after the whole process. I didn't need those IT band release stuff things. But he talked about that during the consultation. So someone who needs it will get it. I can't compare him to U.S. doctors. I do not recommend fully externals though. LON is better.
I need some sort of support to stand, at least 1 forearm crutch and pushing against the chair/table/whatever. I can walk immediately, but my ballerina is a bit stiff until I walk a good 10 meters and everything is okay, the ballerina is temporary and my feet go normal. All of the pressure for me is on my ankles, but it's not so bad and I can walk immediately.
Are you saying you haven't done any stairs training at all?? Oh man, I hope that's not what you're saying.
Are you walking unaided? With a zimmer? With crutches?
The stairs I have at home are very high and bad to exercise with. I don't do PT outside somewhere else. But I'm pretty sure that when the frames are off it'll be less of a problem.
I mostly walk with crutches now. Only for standing up I use either the walker or something around me to lift me up.
I still have a tiny bit of ballerina foot. After a good stretch it's gone BUT when I stand straight I can fall backwards... only if my upper body leans a bit forward I wouldn't fall.. weird
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I think I asked you about your PT before, but I don't think you said what kind of PT you're doing.
As for me, I'm not really doing any, but I'm walking in the city, up and down stairs and on uneven ground every day, sometimes upwards of 2km. For sure my ass strength is evaporated and I can't get up myself, I wish there was a way to improve it. I'm looking into yoga classes, maybe seeing some women will motivate me to move my legs around a bit.
If I take the right painkillers (150mg ketanol) I can walk unaided very slowly, and I jerk my upper body completely to do it. I think I took about 10 steps so I'm seeing improvement. Totally penguin style.
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I think I asked you about your PT before, but I don't think you said what kind of PT you're doing.
As for me, I'm not really doing any, but I'm walking in the city, up and down stairs and on uneven ground every day, sometimes upwards of 2km. For sure my ass strength is evaporated and I can't get up myself, I wish there was a way to improve it. I'm looking into yoga classes, maybe seeing some women will motivate me to move my legs around a bit.
If I take the right painkillers (150mg ketanol) I can walk unaided very slowly, and I jerk my upper body completely to do it. I think I took about 10 steps so I'm seeing improvement. Totally penguin style.
I don't do PT as well. I will continue with it when the frames are off. I only walk and stretch.
I can lift my right leg unaided, too. I think it's just a matter of time and everything will be fine. Good luck!
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Update
Stiffness in my left leg is gone while walking.
During taking steps I sometimes try to only use one crutch. The other one is in my hand for security reasons. It works but right leg has to improve more.
The nerve of my right lower leg doesn't bother me anymore.
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Hey, nice diary.
May you make a video showing us your walking ?
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Video of me walking
Imgur only allows short clips, so I had to shorten it. In my mind it feels faster than it looks like but it's a huge improvement. I should have exercised a lot more than I would be further by now. But I still have enough time. Also I could have walked more with a straight posture but I didn't think about it I guess.
https://imgur.com/a/UqvQquN
Hey, nice diary.
May you make a video showing us your walking ?
Here it is. Right after waking up I'm usually slower. Later it'll get better with time. And I can be faster than in the video above.
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New video
https://imgur.com/a/YPgA2jz
Old video
https://imgur.com/a/UqvQquN
As you can see I'm a bit faster now.
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you are doing great, thank you for the video.
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you are doing great, thank you for the video.
You're welcome. Hope it helps.
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Great231,
when are you going to make Stryde Femurs?
Did you see anyone doing it with giotikas or did he tell you how many people he did stryde on ? becuase there doesnt seem to be any
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4) When are u doing stryde on femurs? from your experience with pain do u feel that if u wouldve done internal femurs it would hurt more ?
4) I don't know yet. I want to rest for a few years. As I haven't had experience regarding internal nails I don't know if internal femur would be more or less painfull.
I don't know any stryde patient.
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Update
I can walk with only one crutch now. But slower compared to walking with two crutches.
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How well are you going up and down stairs? How's your knee tightness? I found an incredible way to fight ballerina if you're still fighting it and need some advice.
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Update
I can walk with only one crutch now. But slower compared to walking with two crutches.
How long till your done with your tibias and can remove the frames
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How well are you going up and down stairs? How's your knee tightness? I found an incredible way to fight ballerina if you're still fighting it and need some advice.
I can use the stairs in our home, my left leg is strong enough to lift me up for climbing the stairs but walking down is not so easy because the stairs are high and narrow so there's not much space for the frames. I have to firmly grab the rails on each of my sides.
Knee tightness is not as bad anymore. It only occurs when sitting down for a few seconds, 100% because of the pins.
Yes please, I'd like to know about your advice:)
How long till your done with your tibias and can remove the frames
In a couple of days I'll have my next X-rays done.
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This week wasn't easy.
19.06
At first one of the pins of the right leg started to cause pain. Usually this happens every other week for 2-3 days. But this time it happend while I was lying in bed doing nothing.... This time it was worse than ever because moving my leg slightly caused pain. I still could weight bear and walk around though even if it was uncomfortable at first.
20.06
I thought it got better because I was able to walk with less pain again. Hours later it felt even worse than the day before. I forcecfully bend my knee with my arms again and again because that had helped me once in Athens. But nope.
21.06
The pinsite seemed to have gotten better. But now another pin at the same knee started to cause pain! Within hours it felt just like the two infections I had while I was in Athens. Moving the leg only a mm was horrible. I couldn't lift it up onto my bed on its own, I had to use my arm to move my right leg.
22.6
The next few days I didn't use my right leg at all! I only used my left leg and the walker to get to the bathroom. Otherwise I was lying/sitting in my bed.
23.06
A bit better
24.06.
I used the crutches again for the first time. But soon there was a sharp pain in my right knee again so I rested again.
25.06
Today, walking with the crutches is possible again without any problems. Tomorrow I will use only one crutch again.
I'm very happy that I didn't need any antibiotics!! I was afraid of that. But luckily it healed by itself. Well I guess I know why.
Dr. Giotikas told me not to use povidon Iodine because a film (thin layer) stays on the pins and skin which is probably a risk for infections? BUT I went with my gut feeling and still used it in the past whenever a pin was hurting. It always helped. So I used it again and the pain disappeared. Of course I always clean the affected pin and skin with chlorhexidine to remove the iodine ointment and after that I put a new layer on it.
https://www.apodiscounter.de/pvp-jod-ratiopharm-salbe-25g-pzn-07260425?pgrp=C&extProvId=5&extPu=30583-gaw&extLi=1683433407&extCr=71082991618-345347030131&extSi=&extTg=&keyword=&extAP=1o1&extMT=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIv9iVnbSF4wIVw4XVCh2s6wRiEAQYASABEgK00_D_BwE
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What I also want to mention is. My left leg which was always the weaker one in Athens during PT is now strong as never before since the surgery. All I did was not using any crutches whenever I made a step with my right leg which means that every muscle and strength is needed of the left leg as that's the one on the floor at that moment, wearing all the weight. Now lifting my left leg while lying in bed is easy. Months before it seemed impossible!
Conclusion: The best PT can be walking unaided. I think that's the fastest recovery. Looking forward to frame removal.
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Firstly for ballerina, I've been getting plates from my bench press, a total of 40 kgs, and sitting on the edge of my bed. I scoot my butt as far on the edge of the bed as possible and bring my feet closer to my body. My ballerina will be very prominent here, as I can't really touch my heels to the floor. Now, I'll place the 40kg on my lap and really drive my legs down to push down to the floor. I'll sit like this for about 45 minute sessions, and it's even better to isolate each leg. Surely your ankles get more flexible with this and it's already helped me a lot.
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Firstly for ballerina, I've been getting plates from my bench press, a total of 40 kgs, and sitting on the edge of my bed. I scoot my butt as far on the edge of the bed as possible and bring my feet closer to my body. My ballerina will be very prominent here, as I can't really touch my heels to the floor. Now, I'll place the 40kg on my lap and really drive my legs down to push down to the floor. I'll sit like this for about 45 minute sessions, and it's even better to isolate each leg. Surely your ankles get more flexible with this and it's already helped me a lot.
Thanks for this advice! How do the plates looķ like? I can't imagine how you would put them on only one leg? I'd like to try it out. I don't have those plates yet (What else could you use...?)
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(https://www.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1500x1500/472321edac810f9b2465a359d8cdc0b5/5/0/50kg-calibrated-plates-web1.jpg)
(https://www.sensorydirect.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/l/a/lapstars-page-600.jpg)
The best way to isolate one leg is to put the majority of the weight on the ballerina leg and a little bit on the other.
I suppose you can use maybe a big giant water jug, the 16 liter ones filled up.
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@cheekycabs: Thanks! I'll try it with a bag filled with heavy stuff I guess
Update
I have new X-rays. Didn't talk to Dr. Giotikas yet. But I see that again there isn't much progress since last time (2 months)
I only post the X-rays where I see some progress. Everything else (Especially the sideways views of the tibia look almost the same as last time) On the left you see the X-ray of 03.05.19, on the right you see the X-ray of today.
Left Fibula: https://i.imgur.com/gNcL9TJ.jpg
Left Front: https://i.imgur.com/7EYFFmv.jpg
Right Front: https://i.imgur.com/4mv3SPV.jpg
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@cheekycabs: Thanks! I'll try it with a bag filled with heavy stuff I guess
Update
I have new X-rays. Didn't talk to Dr. Giotikas yet. But I see that again there isn't much progress since last time (2 months)
I only post the X-rays where I see some progress. Everything else (Especially the sideways views of the tibia look almost the same as last time) On the left you see the X-ray of 03.05.19, on the right you see the X-ray of today.
Left Fibula: https://i.imgur.com/gNcL9TJ.jpg
Left Front: https://i.imgur.com/7EYFFmv.jpg
Right Front: https://i.imgur.com/4mv3SPV.jpg
I too dint have any difference by waiting...ask him to dynamize the frames..or do it your self...Parihar did it for me...i got much more uniform callous now
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I too dint have any difference by waiting...ask him to dynamize the frames..or do it your self...Parihar did it for me...i got much more uniform callous now
What do you mean by dynamizing the frames? Is there a medical term for that? I'll talk with my Dr. tomorrow noon.
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Your doctor will be able to tell if it is the right time to dynamize the frames (loosening the struts), but according to your x-ray your callus is not ready yet.
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What do you mean by dynamizing the frames? Is there a medical term for that? I'll talk with my Dr. tomorrow noon.
right now the tension in the rod is bearing your weight.
Dynamization is when you loosen your supporting struts and walk for some time and again retighten it so that you remove the tension from the struts and move it to your bone. that way the bone bears the weight henceforth
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Your doctor will be able to tell if it is the right time to dynamize the frames (loosening the struts), but according to your x-ray your callus is not ready yet.
true, your doc would decide if you can dynamize
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I had thought about doing LATN. But I will give it more time now.
I have just realized that I can also start University in April 2020 instead of October. 9 months from now must be enough I hope to consolidate...
I guess I will wait.
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=64140.msg162974;topicseen#msg162974
Thanks for the advice. Once my consolidation has progressed Dr. G will probably talk about dynamization. Zakika also did loosen the strut in the end I remember.
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I had talked to Dr. Giotikas.
He gave me a few options.
I can shorten for 3-4 mm. BUT I'd rather not do that. Because the more length, the more worth this surgery is. I don't want to have waited for a year for only 4,3cm or sth.
Or I can do LATN.
OR I can wait. Probably 4 months +
I get testosterone from my doctor for medical reasons. Dr. Giotikas told me to ask my doctor if the dosage can be increased by a bit since testosterone seems to have a good impact on bone growth.
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I had talked to Dr. Giotikas.
He gave me a few options.
I can shorten for 3-4 mm. BUT I'd rather not do that. Because the more length, the more worth this surgery is. I don't want to have waited for a year for only 4,3cm or sth.
Or I can do LATN.
OR I can wait. Probably 4 months +
I get testosterone from my doctor for medical reasons. Dr. Giotikas told me to ask my doctor if the dosage can be increased by a bit since testosterone seems to have a good impact on bone growth.
Sorry i forgot ur diary, so basically you lengthened 5cm tibia right?
And total time in frames will be how much if u dont do latn, 1 year?
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Hi Great321, I've been following your diary, how is your recovery going? Haven't seen any new posts from you in a while, hope you're doing okay
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I had talked to Dr. Giotikas.
He gave me a few options.
I can shorten for 3-4 mm. BUT I'd rather not do that. Because the more length, the more worth this surgery is. I don't want to have waited for a year for only 4,3cm or sth.
Or I can do LATN.
OR I can wait. Probably 4 months +
I get testosterone from my doctor for medical reasons. Dr. Giotikas told me to ask my doctor if the dosage can be increased by a bit since testosterone seems to have a good impact on bone growth.
How about BMACS?
This bone marrow treatment works great for delayed consolidation in Korea
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One thing guys is a lack of consolidation due to the patient's own regenerative abilities or is it due to poor post op treatment?
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One thing guys is a lack of consolidation due to the patient's own regenerative abilities or is it due to poor post op treatment?
Diet and physio I feel play a greater role. And I am almost certain more than 50% don't treat it seriously.
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Great321, how is your consolidation?
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update?
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Still no reply from Great? Bit concerning he hasn't got back, hope he's doing okay
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waiting for the next X-rays appointment next week, my expectations aren't high. I just hope that my bones will be consolidated by April next year so that I can start studying :-\
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waiting for the next X-rays appointment next week, my expectations aren't high. I just hope that my bones will be consolidated by April next year so that I can start studying :-\
So you wont be doing Stryde Femurs?
ALSO, Please tell us some honest words about dr giotikas, is he good or still not that experienced?
PT : you went to thesus center or something else?
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Maybe in a few years. I have already said everything about him what I think. It hasn't changed. Also I have no knowledge about the whole medical part so I don't know if he could have handled sth better. Yes, thesus. 3-4 times a week. With the german PT who was very strict and later also on certain days with others.
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Maybe in a few years. I have already said everything about him what I think. It hasn't changed. Also I have no knowledge about the whole medical part so I don't know if he could have handled sth better. Yes, thesus. 3-4 times a week. With the german PT who was very strict and later also on certain days with others.
Mind if I ask what has changed in your PT regimen? Before you had just said you weren't doing well with PT, only walking and stretching. What kind of stuff are you doing with your German PT?
I'm rooting for your consolidation bro. Actually want to see your next X-rays. Did you try anything new with diet or anything else?
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Mind if I ask what has changed in your PT regimen? Before you had just said you weren't doing well with PT, only walking and stretching. What kind of stuff are you doing with your German PT?
I'm rooting for your consolidation bro. Actually want to see your next X-rays. Did you try anything new with diet or anything else?
Yes I used to have PT in Athens with the German PT and so on. Now I'm not. I only stretch my Achilles Tendon and walk.
I will be able to explain why I stopped doing other PT exercises once the frames are off.
I did change my diet. I eat fruits and vegetables everyday and bought more supplements. Thanks for your support. I'll post the X-rays next week. I don't think that much has changed honestly. My body is so weird. But I don't want to shorten anything..
Maybe I could have lengthened slowly aswell but no one told me. And I shouldn't have stopped lengthening in the very beginning and lengthen months later again. Let's see.
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Hey we both have had fkups and complications, don't worry we are only going forward the best we can. I'm sure even my surgery would be considered a long recovery after almost a year after the surgery. One thing I feel like I should suggest however, is your body will really thank you if you try to do some PT now. My leg with the removed apparatus really is incredible, from range of motion, to balance, to strength. And I can't help but think the flexibility training and balance training I was doing only helped. I won't really know until the other frame is off but the leg feels as strong as ever. I'm sure you have your reasons for stopping PT, but even working out my toes by grabbing a piece of paper constantly with it has made my nerves heal amazingly, with no weird nerve jitters or imbalance.
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@cheekycabs that sounds great! You're very lucky that you can leave both of your frames behind.
For me it doesn't look very good again. On the left side of the pictures you see the X-ray of today and on the right side you see the X-ray of two months ago.
Right Front: https://i.imgur.com/ne7z2mj.png
Left Front: https://i.imgur.com/CzDEcNg.png
Left Side: https://i.imgur.com/HQ0dDMF.png
Right Side: https://i.imgur.com/U30Tnnq.png
Do you see any difference? I wonder why the bone on the "left side"-picture isn't growing inside the gap but rather outside...
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hi great what did giotikas said to you about the xrays? and what he advise you to do?
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I just had a talk with Dr. Giotikas.
He gave me several options.
1. To do nothing (not really serious)
2. To shorten 2-4mm (To stimuli bone growth)
3. I don't remember the whole name. But it was about injecting my plasma into the callous to stimuli bone growth. (1000€)
4. To do LATN (6.000€) -> removing the frames and replacing them with the nails (which can also enhance bone growth)
I had also asked him if he can remove one pin of my right knee because that pin had caused pain over the last months. That pain made it impossible for me to put my whole weight on my right leg. Without that pin I could walk more and better which would improve my bone growth. He said he can do it.
But ultimately I have now decided to do LATN instead of all the other options. I don't want to shorten. And I don't want to spend money on trying other options if it could be for nothing. And in the end I might have to do LATN either way.
I told him that I'm afraid of permanent knee pain that could occur, he answered that there is a 15% chance of knee pain but that it isn't permanent. I think 10 months is enough and my bone growth is so slow that it would take too many more for me.
Also the day before yesterday I was sitting on my bed and sometime my left leg felt weird. It felt like my foot got a bad cramp. That day I couldn't walk at all. Every touch with my left foot with the floor was hurting like nothing before from my foot up to my hip. So I had to use my right leg which is already the weaker one in order to stand up and to sit on an office chair so that my mother could roll me to the bathroom. In the evening it got a bit better. I was able to slowly increase the weight on my left leg and use it again. But until today the feeling of a cramp in my foot is still there. Dr. Giotikas said that that's my body responding to the frames after such a long time.
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i would go with the plasma , which is actually stem cells
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I was in a similar situation. I went with the nails, that was a great decision!
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Hope this serve as example to other LL'rs to avoid external only. You should have nailed your tibias long time ago.
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I was in a similar situation. I went with the nails, that was a great decision!
How long did you have the frames on?
Hope this serve as example to other LL'rs to avoid external only. You should have nailed your tibias long time ago.
I hope others can learn from my experience as well. But if someone really wants to do fully externals they can try it and switch to LATN as soon as they notice that their bone growth is too slow. I recommend Stryde in any case though. If it has to be tibias which might be too narrow for a Stryde nail, LON or LATN then.
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How long did you have the frames on?
I hope others can learn from my experience as well. But if someone really wants to do fully externals they can try it and switch to LATN as soon as they notice if their bone growth is too slow. I recommend Stryde in any case though. If it has to be tibias that are too narrow for a Stryde nail, LON or LATN then.
For me it was about 8 months with the frames on until I decided to go with the nails. It was the greatest relief to not have the frames around anymore.
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For me it was about 8 months with the frames on until I decided to go with the nails. It was the greatest relief to not have the frames around anymore.
I can imagine!! :)
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Hope this serve as example to other LL'rs to avoid external only. You should have nailed your tibias long time ago.
Why? Do bones consolidate better with internals, and for what reasons?
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Why? Do bones consolidate better with internals, and for what reasons?
Bones consolidate quicker when you walk on them. Walking and putting weight on your legs promotes healing. Latn, Lon, or stryde pretty much would all be good ideas. Never do fully externals.
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Why? Do bones consolidate better with internals, and for what reasons?
I don't think that bone consolidation is better with nails or externals. It depends on each person. But if bone growth isn't good enough with externals, the LATN nail can help to enhance bone growth because of the reaming(?) of the bone marrow.
Last night I couldn't sleep until 3pm because I was excited by the thought of getting rid of my frames. It's a great relief. And I hope that it can be done as soon as possible. :)
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Bones consolidate quicker when you walk on them. Walking and putting weight on your legs promotes healing. Latn, Lon, or stryde pretty much would all be good ideas. Never do fully externals.
Full externals are much less invasive though. There is no risk of permanent knee pain with them and also no risk of runaway nail.
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In two weeks I'll finally get rid of the frames through LATN surgery. :D
The last few days were rough because for the first time since the surgery both of my legs had problems at the same time. On the right the knee problem. On the left the muscle problem. Walking is very difficult to the point that I'm sweating (not because of the weather). I just hope that it gets better when the frames are off.
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Hey Great321
Will you be doing the LATN surgery with Dr. Giotikas in Athens in 2 weeks?
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Hey Great321
Will you be doing the LATN surgery with Dr. Giotikas in Athens in 2 weeks?
Yes I will do it with Dr. Giotikas in Athens
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That will be awesome. I’ll at the Theseus Centre for PT during that time. Not sure if I’ll run into you. Will you be staying in Athens after surgery or will you be flying home?
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Nice, which surgery method did you choose? I will probably not visit the PT center this time. But I have to stay in Athens for two weeks. My apartment will be more in the center of Athens. Last time I stayed in the Alimos area.
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Stryde on my femurs. I’ll probably start a dairy but will discuss it with Dr. G first. If I do it will be Dr. G first Stryde dairy.
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That would be interesting to read! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
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5cm
Since I'm doing LATN, I asked Dr. Giotikas if I can lengthen another 2-3mm until the surgery. He said that I can go for it.
So I will reach my intial goal of 5cm.
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I had my LATN surgery 3 days ago, on the 13th of September. I'm in an apartment now with my family.
The frames are off. My left muslce problem has vanished. Standing on both of my legs at the same time is much easier now. Too easy, it feels weird and I have to get used to it. Without the frames I feel more vulnerable.
At first I had thick bandages on both of my legs (I will add pictures when I'm back in my home country). Here in Athens it's quite warm and I didn't know that there was an air conditioner in the beginning so I was sweating a lot. The legs felt very warm and uncomfortable. Bending my knees was also difficult partly because of the bandages and partly because of surgery discomfort/pain.
After surgery I felt cold and then hot and cold again...it's just my reaction of anasthesia. I also had to throw up. I was half asleep and too exhausted when Dr. Giotikas told me that the surgery went fine. Dr. Giannakos I think was stretching my feet and although my left leg up to the hip was hurting the whole night, that actually cured my muscle problem. I don't know.
Standing up and making a few steps is not a problem. But when I stand at the sink for example I start to feel the knee pressure. It's not painful but it makes me kind of feeling weird/sick. Probably because I'm not quite sure what's going on there and I'm afraid that if sth could happen.
Today Dr. Giannakos removed the bandages and put plasters/patches on the wounds. Some of the former pinsites are already closed, others will need another week. He will then put new patches on.
Lifting my legs to the bed without the help of hands is difficult again because of the knee pressure but I guess it will get better.
Now I have year until my bones have to consolidate, otherwise I would need a bone graft. I really hope that won't be needed because I hate surgeries. And in my current state I would not choose to do LL again.
There is not much pain and walking is possible with the walker. But for me there are a few things worse that are side effects of surgeries.
1.constant nausea to the point that you don't dare to walk in case you have to throw up
2. tiredness in addition to nausea
I guess it's the pain killers but also this unkown sensation in my knees when I stand for a longer time that makes me sick. If it wasn't for that I'd try weight bear more and see what's possible now. Jolien was lucky because with LON several months pass, until then the body gets used go the knee trauma, with LON it must be easier when the frames
are off
Well right now I feel rather down.I had to throw up an hour ago after I tried to eat some ordered food.
Time is passing slow when you feel bad. I'm looking forward to the upcoming weeks. I expects things to get better. Dr. Giannakos was very optimistic about it. Dr. Giotikas also visited me and checked up on me.
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Now I have year until my bones have to consolidate, otherwise I would need a bone graft. I really hope that won't be needed because I hate surgeries. And in my current state I would not choose to do LL again.
Thanks for your honest testimony.
In the xrays while you were lengthening there was callus? Do you think you could avoid this if you had stop lengthening? I know you didn't lengthen a lot.
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Thanks for your honest testimony.
In the xrays while you were lengthening there was callus? Do you think you could avoid this if you had stop lengthening? I know you didn't lengthen a lot.
Yes, I have attached them in the diary. You can see the X-rays. I have lengthened 5cm. Maybe I lost a few mm through the LATN surgery. I'll see. I don't think that stopping the lengthening would have prevented it. But maybe lengthening slower would have been better and I couldn't walk as much as needed.
Anyways. I feel better now. My nausea isn't as bad anymore. I'm not afraid anymore of standing up and making steps as the dizziness is gone.
But I don't dare to put my whole weight on only one leg yet. My femur muscles are literally aching for exercise and weightbearing. I do some exercise but it doesn't replace a good walk. I try to dare more every day. Dr. Giotikas' assistant offered me help, I can message her whenever I need something. She is a studied nurse.
As soon as I'm at home again I will continue with professional PT.
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Thanks for your honest testimony.
I don't think he regrets LL but he is saying he does not intend to another LL as he had planned before
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I don't think he regrets LL but he is saying he does not intend to another LL as he had planned before
I definitely love my new height. I expect a good recovery as others had in this forum who did LATN. I don't think that I will regret having done LL. I didn't ask Dr. Giotikas what happens in case a possible bone graft in one year doesn't work out of fear what he would answer. Does anyone know? LL is a huge risk and health is really the most important thing in life. You really need to be desperate or objectively short like me to consider LL. I don't think that I would do a second LL (maybe a moderator can change my diary title by removing the word "Stryde")because my bone growth seems to be very slow in general, that could be too risky again. Who knows how my callus will develop in the next months. Maybe in a couple of years in case my recovery was very good I will think differently but so far it is less likely.
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I didn't ask Dr. Giotikas what happens in case a possible bone graft in one year doesn't work out of fear what he would answer.
I'm really interested in this answer.
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I definitely love my new height. I expect a good recovery as others had in this forum who did LATN. I don't think that I will regret having done LL. I didn't ask Dr. Giotikas what happens in case a possible bone graft in one year doesn't work out of fear what he would answer. Does anyone know? LL is a huge risk and health is really the most important thing in life. You really need to be desperate or objectively short like me to consider LL. I don't think that I would do a second LL (maybe a moderator can change my diary title by removing the word "Stryde")because my bone growth seems to be very slow in general, that could be too risky again. Who knows how my callus will develop in the next months. Maybe in a couple of years in case my recovery was very good I will think differently but so far it is less likely.
I think you are doing the right thing. Many non LL-ers dont understand this the way us LL-ers do. The time and energy drain of such a procedure, it will offset you and change your toughts towards different aspects of life than height.
You have almost made it through this demanding procedure,
I wish you good luck in life from here on till the end :)
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I'm really interested in this answer.
I think in case bone graft doesn't work, you can take off screws from your nail, reverse lengthening using frames, do a new graft (maybe with DBX) or BMAC.
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I think you are doing the right thing. Many non LL-ers dont understand this the way us LL-ers do. The time and energy drain of such a procedure, it will offset you and change your toughts towards different aspects of life than height.
You have almost made it through this demanding procedure,
I wish you good luck in life from here on till the end :)
Right. It changed the way you think. Thank you for your words:) Hope you're doing great!
I think in case bone graft doesn't work, you can take off screws from your nail, reverse lengthening using frames, do a new graft (maybe with DBX) or BMAC.
Sounds horrible. I have to avoid this at all cost!
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Sleep was weirdly way easier with frames on than without. I can sleep on my sides without pain in my knees. I use pillows inbetween my legs like I did with the frames. I wake up 3-5 times at night and it takes longer before I fall asleep again. With frames I was able to sleep through the night until like 10AM. But thats because my femur muscles weren't aching. Today they feel better again, so the following night might be better. Also I don't take the recommended amount of pain killers.
The knees don't feel weird anymore when I stand for a longer time.
Unfortunately my muscle problem in my left foot is not gone as I thought. But walking is possible unlike before. Still uncomfortable and I hope that it doesn't get worse. Probably it will go away when I get certain shoe soles from the orthopedist and do PT.
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My legs are stronger today. I can weightbear a lot more per leg.
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I can now lift my legs onto the bed and back easily without the help of my hands.
My right knee makes problems after some walking but gets better when I rest again.
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My legs are stronger today. I can weightbear a lot more per leg.
Hi Great31 đi u have a chance to talk to any of his stryde patient?
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Hi Great31 đi u have a chance to talk to any of his stryde patient?
They seem to be at the rehab center. I am more in the center of Athens. As I'm not planning to go there, we will probably not see each other.
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Huge congrats to you man! Very happy you're on the road to recovery.
Do you have photos of your legs post LATN and frame removal? How did they close up the scars? My legs look like I've been fkin hit with a shotgun
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Huge congrats to you man! Very happy you're on the road to recovery.
Do you have photos of your legs post LATN and frame removal? How did they close up the scars? My legs look like I've been fkin hit with a shotgun
Thanks but it's still a long road to normal. :( I wish I had done LON or Stryde. Hope you get back to normal, too!
I will post pictures once I'm back. Some scars are more visible than others. In the last month my arms and legs got very itchy, idk why, I should have gone to the doctor for some cream/lotion but with frames on I didn't want to. Now I have several light dots on my legs just from scratching which are not related to the frames. Around the knees it looks more scarred but I don't care much about that. Some developed because of infections/inflammations I had.
What worries me the most is since a few days ago that whenever I want to put my whole weight on each leg and walk, the back of my right pelvic bones hurts day and night. The muscle problem of my left foot that had started one month ago didn't vanish like I thought. In the past before LL I needed certain insoles for my feet so maybe it's a similar case. The right knee hurts after standing for 2+minutes.
The knee pain is normal, that takes time. But the other things are not. Dr. Giotikas said that it's "away [from their] surgical intervention]", that it could be a problem with a muscle or my spine and that I should do a clinical examination with an orthopedist near me and keep him updated. So once I'm back I'll go to an orthopedist. I want to do professional PT 5 times a week, get some good shoe insoles. Eat healthy. If there is not much bone growth in 3months I might try this plasma injection thing.
I think that PT helps with consolidation, not sure where I got that from, but sb mentioned that slow bone growth can also be a result of muscle atrophy.
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It sounds like a good plan. Would love to hear about your professional PT. I'm doing PT but it seems like rubbish. Aside from the normal tippy toe exercises and band stretching, my ankles are getting blasted with low wave and high wave electrical signals.
My only main problem is seemingly my right foot, which feels like drop foot but my doctor has assured me will go away. I'm walking everywhere just fine without crutches, but if I sit down for over 10 minutes my ankle is stiff and hurts for a minute, then its okay. It's at it's worst when I wake up. He's attributed it to shortened achilles tendons that can be stretched back.
How are your ankles? Any of that sound similar to your situation?
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It sounds like a good plan. Would love to hear about your professional PT. I'm doing PT but it seems like rubbish. Aside from the normal tippy toe exercises and band stretching, my ankles are getting blasted with low wave and high wave electrical signals.
My only main problem is seemingly my right foot, which feels like drop foot but my doctor has assured me will go away. I'm walking everywhere just fine without crutches, but if I sit down for over 10 minutes my ankle is stiff and hurts for a minute, then its okay. It's at it's worst when I wake up. He's attributed it to shortened achilles tendons that can be stretched back.
How are your ankles? Any of that sound similar to your situation?
I don't think that whomever I will get is experienced in LL but it's basically just strengthening the leg muscles and stretching the Achilles Tendons. I will also try PT in a swimming pool. Luckily I haven't had any ankle problem. I'm sorry to hear that.
Today I also felt better. I met up with Dr. Giannakos who was satisfied with the scars. I was also able to lift both of my legs. I asked him about certain pains and he assured me that it is normal at this stage. Regarding my "pelvic bone pain", he said it is impossible that it is bone pain but rather my gluteus muscle. My left foot didn't bother me today but the left leg is not as strong as one month ago because I couldn't use it that much but I am sure that it will all get better with time.
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Also, my legs felt exhausted last night as if I had walked a lot (which I didn't), I tried stretching my legs (femurs) by putting three pillows stacked on top of each other right under my hip. After a while my legs felt normal again and sleeping was easier.
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another observation: a day after the surgery when I made my first three steps I noticed right away that I don't have to wait a few minutes anymore until I feel able to start to making steps. Now I can stand up and immediately start "walking". That's a big relief.
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Had my first night back in Germany again and I was able to sleep just fine without waking up in the middle of the night multiple times. Because the mattresses in the airbnb apartment were not of good quality. And I only had two rather flat and not soft pillows for my legs. I had to turn my body hundred times and wasn't able to find a comfortable position. I thought it was only because of the LATN surgery but it was the bed. It is very important for all LLers to make your bed as comfortable as possible for your legs!
Follow these steps
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=64389.msg166344#msg166344
no matter if you do externals or not. It's a day and night experience.
Deprivation of sleep can make you depressed and unmotivated, so take it serious.
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My right gluteus muscle problem (I thought it was sth with my pelvic bone) is mostly gone now. It doesn't cause me problems during the day or night anymore.
My right leg is pretty strong, thanks to that I can make longer steps which makes me faster.
But the only problem left is my left leg. I can put weight on it while standing on both feet but because of the muscle problem that started over a month ago while being in frames I can't use it the same as my other leg. I am 80% sure that if it wasn't for the muscle problem I would have been able to walk a bit unaided already.
I have no problem standing for longer now at the sink for example.
Tomorrow I'll go to an othopedist and hope that the problem will be found soon.
I decided not to post pictures of my scars because it's very private and look very distinct. You never know if sb might recognize you by your scars. But you can imagine that the middle and lower ones around the ankles are very small and not that noticable while around the knees there are many scars, a few quite big, that don't look aesthetic at all. One of the bigger ones just got bigger because I had an infection around that one pin.
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Ty great for sharing your journey! i will go with giotikas too this year or the next
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Ty great for sharing your journey! i will go with giotikas too this year or the next
You're welcome. Hope it helps.
Anyways my left leg got a bit better since yesterday evening. The orthopedist today wasn't concerned, she said that muscle problems are common after surgeries. I was prescribed PT.
Now I can use the crutches but still more cautious and a bit slower than with the walker.
Since this morning I have a bit of nerve pain in my left foot but Dr. Giotikas wrote me that it seems to be an irritation from the stitches above and not much to worry about.
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UPDATE
walked fully unaided for the first time since my first surgery
well little steps and like a penguin because my muscles aren't trained yet but it's awesome
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I am a bit more confident with walking unaided than yesterday. I make small steps but I walk faster. The only thing that slows me down is still the nerve pain in my left foot. I hope it will stop soon. Today, I asked Dr. Giotikas if Lyrica or sth similar might help, waiting for an answer.
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When will you take new xrays, to see if there is improvement in your callus?
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Dr. Giotikas said that until the nerve pain improves I can take Lyrica 75mg to ease the pain.
Yesterday evening I noticed that a small part right to my right knee is numb. Before the surgery I was told that there is a possibility that numbness can occur. It's a strange feeling, not pleasant at all. It makes itself noticable when I walk or sit too long.
When will you take new xrays, to see if there is improvement in your callus?
I have to send X-rays to Dr. G at a 6 week time duration. I will ask again if that means 6 weeks from now or from the time of the surgery
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New Video
This is me walking unaided: (I hold the crutches for safety reasons)
https://i.imgur.com/uLSMEUl.mp4
As Dr. Giotikas advised me to walk with crutches, I use them for moving around the house. After about 7 minutes certain feet muscles hurt/are tired so I have to rest again. I guess that's because my leg muscles aren't trained much yet. I'm sure it'll get better.
I took this picture maybe a day after the surgery:
https://i.imgur.com/y9q4m1H.jpg
This is how my bed looks like and the reason why I sleep well:
https://i.imgur.com/3XgC3k9.jpg
If needed I use this kind of pillow to rest my knee on:
https://i.imgur.com/3X7ocNe.jpg
Also: I rarely take painkillers. I might take some before PT which starts next week. I only got 2 appointments for the start. They first want to see me.
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Great video Great321. What is your ethnicity if it's allowed to ask?
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Great video Great321. What is your ethnicity if it's allowed to ask?
Thanks! I was born in Central/South Asia.
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My nerve pain in my left foot is gone. It was already getting less before I took the first Lyrica pill yesterday morning.
The only problem left so far: certain muscle pains in my feet when I walk for a "longer" time
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I walked for about 21 minutes with the crutches right now. I'm planning to walk as much as possible with an hour rest inbetween.
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My nerve pain is not gone. It feels quite painful in the morning or after a long rest and it feels like permanent but as soon as I push myself and walk through the pain it disappears for a long time (until night).
Today I was playing a board game, I was sitting at the table for several hours, sometimes I stood up but still both of my knees are now hurting. I assume that by tomorrow it'll be fine again.
I had my first PT session on tuesday. The young womand talked most of the time and asked me questions, examined my legs a bit, told me to push my knees against the surface on which I lie on (the bed for example). She said I can buy myself a fasciae ball and roll my foot on top of it, forward and backward.
Let's see how the next session will be. I will also ask to have sessions with another person (who might be more experienced).
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woke up, knee pain is gone again
almost no nerve pain on the surface of my left foot
I know for sure that it's coming from the stitches above the ankle because my PT accidentally touched it and the pain I usually feel was the exact same
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I got only three appointments per week as thre PT said that the muscles need rest while my former PT said that that's not necessary in my case and that I have to do as much as possible everyday. The former PT had 10 years of experience in PT while my new one looks quite young. Next week I will get to know two other PTs, one of them is the boss.
Let's see what they say and do.
Now I don't use the wheelchair anymore to get out of the house. I use the front stairs of the house which has only a railing on one side. But depending on how high the steps are I need one or two railings.
Getting out and into the car is very easy now.
With the frames on getting out of the house was always an obstacle.
Nevertheless I sometimes still have muscle pain in my left foot while walking which means that I can't walk much more than 21-30 minutes before I need a rest.
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I got only three appointments per week as thre PT said that the muscles need rest while my former PT said that that's not necessary in my case and that I have to do as much as possible everyday. The former PT had 10 years of experience in PT while my new one looks quite young. Next week I will get to know two other PTs, one of them is the boss.
Let's see what they say and do.
Now I don't use the wheelchair anymore to get out of the house. I use the front stairs of the house which has only a railing on one side. But depending on how high the steps are I need one or two railings.
Getting out and into the car is very easy now.
With the frames on getting out of the house was always an obstacle.
Nevertheless I sometimes still have muscle pain in my left foot while walking which means that I can't walk much more than 21-30 minutes before I need a rest.
Hey, thanks for making this diary, Great!
1. With Dr. Giotikas's new prices, how much would you budget for the entire thing (including accomodation, etc) for internal femurs 8 cm with Stryde?
1.5. How much would you budget in total for everything (including apartment,etc) if you were doing 7 cm internal tibias with Stryde?
2. How is the English of
a. the doctor
b. the hospital staff
c. your caretaker?
3. What are the most unexpected costs / problems you've bumped into from this experience?
4. Did he require a psychological evaluation? How did that go?
5. What apartment/place to stay would you recommend?
6. Do you feel safe in Athens?
Thanks!
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New Video
This is me walking unaided: (I hold the crutches for safety reasons)
https://i.imgur.com/uLSMEUl.mp4
As Dr. Giotikas advised me to walk with crutches, I use them for moving around the house. After about 7 minutes certain feet muscles hurt/are tired so I have to rest again. I guess that's because my leg muscles aren't trained much yet. I'm sure it'll get better.
I took this picture maybe a day after the surgery:
https://i.imgur.com/y9q4m1H.jpg
This is how my bed looks like and the reason why I sleep well:
https://i.imgur.com/3XgC3k9.jpg
If needed I use this kind of pillow to rest my knee on:
https://i.imgur.com/3X7ocNe.jpg
Also: I rarely take painkillers. I might take some before PT which starts next week. I only got 2 appointments for the start. They first want to see me.
6. Also, will he do internal tibias with stryde?
7. What are his length limits for each segment?
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Since last week I can get out of the house completely on my own and drive the car . I use the crutches. But I can walk stairs without crutches as long as there is at least one railing. I stopped taking Lyrica a while ago. I stopped taking pain killers a while ago as well. My muscle pain especially in my left leg is mostly gone when I use "Birkenstock" sandals. But I want to switch to shoes which I can't currently as other flat sandals or shoes cause the pain again.
Because the first orthopedist didn't want to prescribe me any insoles for my shoes (she wasn't even examining me, she didn't take me seriously), I went to my family doctor again and he saw that I have something called "splayfoot" and I had that even before LL, he told me that that can cause pain. So soon I will go to another orthopedist who will most likely prescribe me what the family doctor recommended.
I have 3 PT sesssions per week. I asked for more sessions but they said that 1. we shouldn't exaggerate and 2. that they show me the exercises which I can then do on my own as well. While the PT sessions in Athens lasted like an hour, they only last 20 short minutes here in Germany. Without the frames on many more exercises are possible so I have gotten 12 examples of what to do so far. For the calves, thighs, gluteus muscle, hip, abs.
PT examples:
This is what my PT wrote and draw. It's an example for one day. On other days I'm supposed to train other muscles.
--> https://i.imgur.com/3kXj3Gl.jpg
--> https://i.imgur.com/RUgBx6N.jpg
calves: You stand. You go up on your toes. You go down again. Up again.. 15 repetitions. 3 sets. You can do it on books, so that the Achilles Tendons are getting stretched, too.
thighs:
1. You stand in front of a chair or similar and hold your hands on the grips of the crutches or sth else, upper body is leaned forward while going slowly down into the sitting position. Then you stand up again. If you are a stronger you go down but don't sit, just remain above the seat for 1-2 seconds.
The ball he draw is an exercise ball. On the first drawing it shows that you have to push the ball with your heel until your leg is fully stretched, you slowly go back again and stretch your leg again. On the second drawing you push your forward section of the foot against the ball as much as possible and back again. It's an exercise for the calves. The exercise ball can be replaced with a Thera-Band which ends you hold with your hands.
Next time I see him I will ask for another draft for the other exercises.
@CodyTheDog: I will reply soon (today)!
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Hey, thanks for making this diary, Great!
1. With Dr. Giotikas's new prices, how much would you budget for the entire thing (including accomodation, etc) for internal femurs 8 cm with Stryde?
1.5. How much would you budget in total for everything (including apartment,etc) if you were doing 7 cm internal tibias with Stryde?
2. How is the English of
a. the doctor
b. the hospital staff
c. your caretaker?
3. What are the most unexpected costs / problems you've bumped into from this experience?
4. Did he require a psychological evaluation? How did that go?
5. What apartment/place to stay would you recommend?
6. Do you feel safe in Athens?
7. Also, will he do internal tibias with stryde?
8. What are his length limits for each segment?
Thanks!
1. I can’t really tell you because my experience is different from many of you since I was accompanied by family members who bought groceries and cooked for me. I didn’t need an extra caretaker. I didn’t have to order food… Regarding accommodation… for me it was about 2.000€ for 2,5months. (two bedrooms, location very close to the sea in the nice neighborhood of Alimos) The wheelchair friendly transportation (organized by Dr. Giotikas) from your apartment to the PT Center (Theseus) or to the hospital and back will cost you but as you are doing Stryde you might be able to change to a normal taxi sometime later which will be cheaper. We shouldn’t be sure of us being the exceptions where nothing will go wrong, so I would safe some more money (6.000-10.000€) in case of extra surgeries needed for corrections. (which can happen to any patient no matter which doctor, that means you either do the correction with another doctor or fly back to wherever you did the surgery which means flight+apartment costs for another 1-2weeks )
1.5. The price doesn’t change with 1cm more or less. You pay one price and you can lengthen your personal maximum.
2. Dr. Giotikas lives in the UK mostly, so his English is perfect. The hospital staff’s English was very good. Dr. Giannakos' English is also very good.
3. The most unexpected cost was my LATN surgery.
4. It’s a long time ago but I had to fill out a sheet of paper about my mental health and during the consultation he asked me why I want to do the surgery.
5. PM
6. I always felt safe in Athens. My sister walked through the city on her own when it was very late and dark. She wasn’t afraid. Greek people are much friendlier and warmer than the average Germans. They offer help more often and smile more. Before my surgery a year ago I didn’t understand the bus system in Athens so I wanted to take the bus and buy a ticket inside but the bus driver told me that tickets can’t be bought inside. In the end he let me ride the bus without a ticket. It was a 30 minute ride. The same happened when I wanted to take the tram. The ticket machine was broken and the driver let me ride without a ticket. In Germany no one lets you ride any transport without a valid ticket. I prefer the southern mentality.
7. https://www.athensbjr.com/cost-pricing-of-cosmetic-limb-lengthening/
8. I guess it depends on each person. I forgot what he said a year ago. You can contact them anytime:
+30 216 8096703
info@athensbjr.com
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Hey Great321
You sound like you've been making great progress since you recovered from the nailing surgery, congrats! You deserve it.
I'm undergoing LON, had my frames removed about a month ago and I was wondering if you had any tips on getting rid of that last stubborn 0.5cm of ballerina? my heels don't quite touch the floor when I'm barefoot and I feel it really effects my balance/strength in my legs. Your heels look great in that video of you walking unaided. What was your stretching routine like? Also any other specific exercise that you think have helped you walk?
Keep working hard and I'm sure you'll be off crutches in no time :)
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Hey Great321
You sound like you've been making great progress since you recovered from the nailing surgery, congrats! You deserve it.
I'm undergoing LON, had my frames removed about a month ago and I was wondering if you had any tips on getting rid of that last stubborn 0.5cm of ballerina? my heels don't quite touch the floor when I'm barefoot and I feel it really effects my balance/strength in my legs. Your heels look great in that video of you walking unaided. What was your stretching routine like? Also any other specific exercise that you think have helped you walk?
Keep working hard and I'm sure you'll be off crutches in no time :)
Thanks Bluehen, yes I’m doing better everyday.
Here is a video of me walking unaided from today:
https://i.imgur.com/fVLoEHZ.mp4
I only lengthened 5cm which made it easier for me. How much did you lengthen again? I forgot.
When the frames came off touching the floor with the heels was much easier for me. But I would still fall backwards if I didn’t lean forward. Now that problem is almost gone only by doing PT for a few weeks.
After Athens I rarely did PT, I couldn’t walk much (mostly with the walker), but what I occasionally did was using this device: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B073W9JCDZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I stood on top of it (with my back against a wall) and pushed my heels against the surface of the device. Your calves are supposed to feel uncomfortable. This stretches the calves and your Achilles Tendons. Stand there as long as you can and do it a few times a day.
Strengthening your muscles is also very very important! I have posted a few examples of my PT exercises. You might want to do them, too :D I will post the other exercises as soon as I have a drawing (explaining with just words is complicated).
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Thanks Bluehen, yes I’m doing better everyday.
Here is a video of me walking unaided from today:
https://i.imgur.com/fVLoEHZ.mp4
I only lengthened 5cm which made it easier for me. How much did you lengthen again? I forgot.
When the frames came off touching the floor with the heels was much easier for me. But I would still fall backwards if I didn’t lean forward. Now that problem is almost gone only by doing PT for a few weeks.
After Athens I rarely did PT, I couldn’t walk much (mostly with the walker), but what I occasionally did was using this device: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B073W9JCDZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I stood on top of it (with my back against a wall) and pushed my heels against the surface of the device. Your calves are supposed to feel uncomfortable. This stretches the calves and your Achilles Tendons. Stand there as long as you can and do it a few times a day.
Strengthening your muscles is also very very important! I have posted a few examples of my PT exercises. You might want to do them, too :D I will post the other exercises as soon as I have a drawing (explaining with just words is complicated).
Wow! Your walking progress is great. I guess it's true when they say once you start walking unaided it gets better very quickly.
I did 5cm also. Thanks very much for that advice. I will definitely get one of those calf stretch board things.
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Wow! Your walking progress is great. I guess it's true when they say once you start walking unaided it gets better very quickly.
I did 5cm also. Thanks very much for that advice. I will definitely get one of those calf stretch board things.
You're welcome :) I wish you success!
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what I forgot to say: I can also climb stairs unaided but only upwards not downwards. And only when I make the first step with my left leg which seems to be stronger for this task.
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New Video
This is me walking unaided: (I hold the crutches for safety reasons)
https://i.imgur.com/uLSMEUl.mp4
As Dr. Giotikas advised me to walk with crutches, I use them for moving around the house. After about 7 minutes certain feet muscles hurt/are tired so I have to rest again. I guess that's because my leg muscles aren't trained much yet. I'm sure it'll get better.
I took this picture maybe a day after the surgery:
https://i.imgur.com/y9q4m1H.jpg
This is how my bed looks like and the reason why I sleep well:
https://i.imgur.com/3XgC3k9.jpg
If needed I use this kind of pillow to rest my knee on:
https://i.imgur.com/3X7ocNe.jpg
Also: I rarely take painkillers. I might take some before PT which starts next week. I only got 2 appointments for the start. They first want to see me.
Hey Everyone,
In Athens and had my CLL surgery, meet another Dr. Giotikas patient that did the same surgery and it turn out we became good friends, Planning. Each day we push and encourage each other, plus getting into mischief with the staff at the Theseus.
I’m not planning to load my dairy till my lengthening is complete, but I’m keeping a personal daily dairy of my experience and might post the whole thing all at once when I’m complete.
There are a few rumors going around about the PT not be good at Theseus, not true.
Planning is the first dairy on this forum for Stryde and as I too were worry on Dr. Giotikas experience with Stryde since there was no dairy, all the worries went away after meeting a couple of current Dr. Giotikas Stryde patients prior to my surgery.
Have met another Dr. Giotikas Stryde chinese girl patient at the Theseus during PT and she is doing good after 6cm of lengthening.
The moment before the surgery, before you are wheel into the OR, just remember that you were able to walk, run, jump, sit up, and sit down just to name a few. The moment someone tap you on your shoulder and say your surgery was a success, but you have no idea that it already happened. Remember about being able to walk, run, jump, sit up, and sit down, all that goes away, but not forever depending on the success of surgery and recovery. Just have to retrain your body to do it all over again, cause your mind remember and know just 6 hours before you were able to and now your lower body won’t allow you to.
Overall the experience is awesome and the recovery is better than expected. Well I’ll 99% focus on lengthening and recovery, so I will not be posting till my lengthening is done.
My dairy will mainly be on my experience since no matter what you read on pain level, recovery and complications, it will never be 100% of what you will experience if you have this surgery, cause this surgery is NOT for the weak, but can be worth it!!!
1. How long are you planning to stay in the area? I heard that Americans can only stay 90 days unless they apply for the Greece Schengen Visa beforehand https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/greece-visa/us-citizenship-passport-holders/
2. The thing is, if someone needs more than 90 days (8 cm is about 90 days exactly, right? Cutting it pretty close, not to mention if anything goes wrong and the patient needs to stay) , I'm not sure what happens. The process to get a Greece Visa seems like a pain in the butt but I might do it. Did you do it?
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/greece-visa/
The requirement of "Travel medical insurance confirmation of minimum 30,000 € coverage within Greece and the entire Schengen area" seems like a problem. I don't know what this means- I have medical insurance in America, not in Greece so would I have to buy a second kind of insurance with Greece somehow?
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Since last week I can get out of the house completely on my own and drive the car . I use the crutches. But I can walk stairs without crutches as long as there is at least one railing. I stopped taking Lyrica a while ago. I stopped taking pain killers a while ago as well. My muscle pain especially in my left leg is mostly gone when I use "Birkenstock" sandals. But I want to switch to shoes which I can't currently as other flat sandals or shoes cause the pain again.
Because the first orthopedist didn't want to prescribe me any insoles for my shoes (she wasn't even examining me, she didn't take me seriously), I went to my family doctor again and he saw that I have something called "splayfoot" and I had that even before LL, he told me that that can cause pain. So soon I will go to another orthopedist who will most likely prescribe me what the family doctor recommended.
I have 3 PT sesssions per week. I asked for more sessions but they said that 1. we shouldn't exaggerate and 2. that they show me the exercises which I can then do on my own as well. While the PT sessions in Athens lasted like an hour, they only last 20 short minutes here in Germany. Without the frames on many more exercises are possible so I have gotten 12 examples of what to do so far. For the calves, thighs, gluteus muscle, hip, abs.
PT examples:
This is what my PT wrote and draw. It's an example for one day. On other days I'm supposed to train other muscles.
--> https://i.imgur.com/3kXj3Gl.jpg
--> https://i.imgur.com/RUgBx6N.jpg
calves: You stand. You go up on your toes. You go down again. Up again.. 15 repetitions. 3 sets. You can do it on books, so that the Achilles Tendons are getting stretched, too.
thighs:
1. You stand in front of a chair or similar and hold your hands on the grips of the crutches or sth else, upper body is leaned forward while going slowly down into the sitting position. Then you stand up again. If you are a stronger you go down but don't sit, just remain above the seat for 1-2 seconds.
The ball he draw is an exercise ball. On the first drawing it shows that you have to push the ball with your heel until your leg is fully stretched, you slowly go back again and stretch your leg again. On the second drawing you push your forward section of the foot against the ball as much as possible and back again. It's an exercise for the calves. The exercise ball can be replaced with a Thera-Band which ends you hold with your hands.
Next time I see him I will ask for another draft for the other exercises.
@CodyTheDog: I will reply soon (today)!
What Greek phrases have been most useful for you to know during your time in Athens?
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Today I started to just use one crutch inside the house for safety reasons. I feel safe enough. It's easier to have one hand free to open doors quickly and carry things around.
@TwinMusicom: Since I have a German passport I didn't need to apply for visa. I'm pretty sure that Dr. Giotikas assistance can help you with your questions though. They are really responsive. Overseas health insurances are also easy and cheap to get.
In Greece you won't need to speak Greek to get by. But of course understanding "Good Morning", "Hello", "Ok", "Bye", "Thank you", "You're welcome" will be helpful and they will appreciate your efforts.
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Yes, I have attached them in the diary. You can see the X-rays. I have lengthened 5cm. Maybe I lost a few mm through the LATN surgery. I'll see. I don't think that stopping the lengthening would have prevented it. But maybe lengthening slower would have been better and I couldn't walk as much as needed.
Anyways. I feel better now. My nausea isn't as bad anymore. I'm not afraid anymore of standing up and making steps as the dizziness is gone.
But I don't dare to put my whole weight on only one leg yet. My femur muscles are literally aching for exercise and weightbearing. I do some exercise but it doesn't replace a good walk. I try to dare more every day. Dr. Giotikas' assistant offered me help, I can message her whenever I need something. She is a studied nurse.
As soon as I'm at home again I will continue with professional PT.
1. Did you have to do the LATIN surgery because of an emergency? What was the reason they gave?
2. Do people doing internals ever have to do the LATIN surgery?
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Today I started to just use one crutch inside the house for safety reasons. I feel safe enough. It's easier to have one hand free to open doors quickly and carry things around.
@TwinMusicom: Since I have a German passport I didn't need to apply for visa. I'm pretty sure that Dr. Giotikas assistance can help you with your questions though. They are really responsive. Overseas health insurances are also easy and cheap to get.
In Greece you won't need to speak Greek to get by. But of course understanding "Good Morning", "Hello", "Ok", "Bye", "Thank you", "You're welcome" will be helpful and they will appreciate your efforts.
Thanks!!!
1. Oh? In most rooms/places you'll be there will be at least one English speaker usually then?
2. You didn't need any Greek to recognize signs/get around ?
3. Do you ever go outside your room to explore a bit? I'd be personally a bit afraid to walk around in a walker for STRYDE patients, seems like nothing you can do if a pick pocket comes
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1. Did you have to do the LATIN surgery because of an emergency? What was the reason they gave?
2. Do people doing internals ever have to do the LATIN surgery?
1. my bone growth was too slow and I didn't want to stay in external frames more than 10 months
2. LATN surgery IS internal nailing
Thanks!!!
1. Oh? In most rooms/places you'll be there will be at least one English speaker usually then?
2. You didn't need any Greek to recognize signs/get around ?
3. Do you ever go outside your room to explore a bit? I'd be personally a bit afraid to walk around in a walker for STRYDE patients, seems like nothing you can do if a pick pocket comes
1.Whatever Dr. Giotikas provides, you can be sure to be able to speak English with someone. Not all the taxi drivers or not all the drivers of the wheelchair accesible vehicle will be able to speak english but the taxi drivers only need to know where you want to go and that's managed by the APP "BEAT", the driver's hired by Dr. Giotikas will already know where you need to be, one of them only knew basic English
2. no. google maps offers street names with latin letters. The App "BEAT" (for taxis) is also connected with google maps. athens is tourist friendly
3. I stayed in Alimos and with the help of someone I was taken to the seaside where I walked a bit. Athens is just as safe as any other big city. But don't worry as long as you aren't in a very shady corner you won't be in danger. I felt safe. The people are very friendly.
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I decided to walk completely unaided from now on at home. Outside I will use at least one crutch. Every day walking gets easier. Next week I will get shoe insoles to finally treat my flat feet. (that I had before LL and that causes me pain in the feet during walking)
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Hi Great321,
Your diary is a reality check to anyone planning to get externals only, and goes to show how significant a nail is verses frames. In a month after getting the nail you are now walking unaided and it just goes to show the power of nails whether its IM nails or Stryde itself.
I feel sorry for those who make mistakes and have complications because of it. I know you are more than well aware of what you did wrong but I want to say I think when your bones fully consolidate you'll feel much better about it. I think because of the mistakes you made it impacted your feelings towards LL very negatively. This surgery is so much more powerful than I can even process so I just want to say I'm sorry for your lost time and I'm happy for the progress you are now seeing.. seems like it's only going up from here. cheers
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I decided to walk completely unaided from now on at home. Outside I will use at least one crutch. Every day walking gets easier. Next week I will get shoe insoles to finally treat my flat feet. (that I had before LL and that causes me pain in the feet during walking)
If you were an American going to Greece, and you wanted to have certain things already there when you get there, how would you go about it? The thing is, an apartment or air bnb might get the package significantly before one gets there and there is the issue of whether that place has an area to store the stuff. I am trying to get a sense of what is good to bring. I heard that a grabber (did you find one useful?) to help pick stuff up https://www.amazon.com/RMS-2-Pack-Inches-Grabber-Reacher/dp/B00UZHYXHO/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=grabber&qid=1572472518&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyVDI0MUExN1RJNjNDJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzc4Nzg2MVpSNUlWWFpXS01PTiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTkwNzU2MTJLVUNOTTFLNU9BMSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU= could be useful though it seems like certain things would be cumbersome to bring on a plane
What are some objects that you would definitely have ordered to the place and not bring if you had no one going with you to help you?
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New X-rays
It's been about 7 weeks since my LATN surgery. These are my new X-rays. I haven't talked to Dr. Giotikas about them yet. I definitely see more bone growth which makes me happy. The nails look slightly bent (they look smiliar to Jolien's nails so I don't know if it's something to worry about). Which worries me though is the right side view. The nail doesn't look like it's completely inside the tibia. It would explain one thing. Sometimes (not every time) when I stand up after having sat for a longer time there's a pain exactly in that area that lasts just a few seconds. Also since a few days I feel some pain in my right shin (left side, around the middle area of the upper tibia) when I walk or do a certain PT exercise. For longer walks I use one crutch again. By putting a bit more weight on that one crutch again the pain does not appear. Maybe it's gone again as today it didn't hurt when I walked unaided but I want to be cautious. I noticed that now I can walk stairs upwards completely unaided (without holding onto the rails) and now it doesn't matter anymore with which leg I make the first step. My sleep is normal although it got a little bit more difficult to fall asleep because to lie with bend knees gets uncomfortable after a few minutes unlike a few weeks ago. The problem isn't about the knee caps or where the incisions were made but rather the area right above the knees. Maybe it's some muscle pain since I do PT. Also I feel like my calves are getting bigger again. I don't want them to get too big. I might use some compression stockings as Dr. Lee recommended.
Right Front view:
https://i.imgur.com/VWU3IJ7.jpg
Right Side view:
https://i.imgur.com/WPW1TJD.jpg
Left Front view:
https://i.imgur.com/XZ28xtQ.jpg
Left Side view:
https://i.imgur.com/ionumMH.jpg
Hi Great321,
Your diary is a reality check to anyone planning to get externals only, and goes to show how significant a nail is verses frames. In a month after getting the nail you are now walking unaided and it just goes to show the power of nails whether its IM nails or Stryde itself.
I feel sorry for those who make mistakes and have complications because of it. I know you are more than well aware of what you did wrong but I want to say I think when your bones fully consolidate you'll feel much better about it. I think because of the mistakes you made it impacted your feelings towards LL very negatively. This surgery is so much more powerful than I can even process so I just want to say I'm sorry for your lost time and I'm happy for the progress you are now seeing.. seems like it's only going up from here. cheers
I totally agree with you! I don't recommend fully externals to anyone. But I will summarize my thoughts and recommendations another time. Thanks!
If you were an American going to Greece, and you wanted to have certain things already there when you get there, how would you go about it? The thing is, an apartment or air bnb might get the package significantly before one gets there and there is the issue of whether that place has an area to store the stuff. I am trying to get a sense of what is good to bring. I heard that a grabber (did you find one useful?) to help pick stuff up https://www.amazon.com/RMS-2-Pack-Inches-Grabber-Reacher/dp/B00UZHYXHO/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=grabber&qid=1572472518&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyVDI0MUExN1RJNjNDJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzc4Nzg2MVpSNUlWWFpXS01PTiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTkwNzU2MTJLVUNOTTFLNU9BMSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU= could be useful though it seems like certain things would be cumbersome to bring on a plane
What are some objects that you would definitely have ordered to the place and not bring if you had no one going with you to help you?
I will try to think about this soon and write about it.
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Your bone growth looks good. I don't believe you'll need graft or will have problem of non-union.
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Dr. Giotikas messaged me that there is nothing to worry about and that the nails are manufactured like that. I will probably have a video call with him in the next days.
I also wanted to say that in my opinion my gait looks already quite good compared to a few weeks ago. In the morning after getting out of bed it takes a couple of steps though until my gait feels better.
Your bone growth looks good. I don't believe you'll need graft or will have problem of non-union.
I hope so :)
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Looking at the side view of the right tibia, on the front side there is no callus, it’s similar to RGKey
If no callus in the front at this stage, Probably need debriedman and then bone graft, after back side callus is fully consolidated
Also do you know the diameter of the nail?
The nail is a good reference to know the real gap size
If it is 10mm, the gap seems like somewhere around 3cm
Anyways, better to seek other LL doctors advice
If you are in Germany, how about Dr Kohne
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Looks fine to me personally keep us posted when you talk with your doctor!
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Also the right tibia looks more bent backward than left tibia.
This might be the cause of less callus on the front. Please ask other doctors
Does any doctor have 3D X-rays in Germany?
Or 3DCT
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Hi Great321
I am glad that you are doing great! Your bones look much better than before. I don't think it is non-union. However, overall the rate of your bone growth seems slow . So be careful for another a month or so until your bones grow enough. In addition, your rod in the right leg seems a little bent as you said. I don't know whether that is normal or at least acceptable. It would be better for you to ask the second opinion from some other doctor.
Take care!
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Dr. Giotikas wrote me per mail that my X-rays "look so very good" as both sides "have progressed significantly". And that I can continue doing my daily routine including single leg standing. Regarding the nail looking outside the tibia and the shape of the nails that's what he wrote: "The entry point of the right nail (the one you circled in the whatsapp photo yesterday) is a touch anterior but this is not a problem. The nails are not bent this is the normal shape they have"
I will pay attention the next week(s) and see if the shin pain occurs again. (Yesterday my shoe insoles finally arrived but they are too thick for all of my shoes ^^) If sth occurs that worries me much I will go see a local orthopedist first. I had contacted Dr. Köhne in the past and I got an automatic e-mail like always. Just information about CLL in general. Also I can't recommend the LL doctors in Hanover. I made a very bad experience with them. I might write a review some time later.
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thanks for your concerns guys :) I will keep walking but I will probably not do the single leg standing for another month as I now remember that my shin pain might have to do with single leg standing days before although I told my PT that my doctor did not allow it. -.- I'll keep you updated
Dr. G had told me that bone growth usually starts in the back. Let's wait for another X-ray first :) What happened to RGKey @TemakiSushi?
Yesterday I took a hot bath for the first time. With some stuff that is supposed to enhance blood circulation.
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If even a slight callus on the front exist, there should be some cloudy looking signs.
But your right tibia, no cloud is there in the dent and consolidated callus has C shape
Superficial is already looking dead and not gonna produce any callus in this dent
RGKey did bone graft finally
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Hi Great321
I am glad that Dr. G said everything looks fine. I think it is a good idea not to do single leg standing until you get more bones in both legs. California said that LATN is not a full weight bearing and you need 75% or more consolidation to let it bear the full weight. I don't have enough knowledge about LATN. He is likely right since he has done it. So walk slowly and carefully. Don't put too much weight or pressure to your legs yet perhaps until another month or so.
Take care!
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Well let's hope for the best first TemakiSushi:) I'll just wait another 6-7 weeks and hope that my next X-rays will show more callus in the front.
Dr. Giotikas assured me again that that's the way tibias heal. From the back to the front.
@Ghostfish: Thanks :) LATN nail is full weight bearing. But LLers are advised to use crutches at least in the first 6 weeks after the nailing. Afterwards it depends on the patient's callus. At least I've read it from a LATN study from 2008 and Dr. G also said that it is full weight bearing. In the study all the patients were allowed to fully weightbear after 6 weeks. Dr. Giotikas wrote me that I'm at 85% in one leg and at 90% in the other leg and that I can weight bear now without restrictions. I honestly think that that is the best method for my consolidation now. But I won't do single leg standing yet :)
Today I was on my feet for about 2 hours straight (walking through town and standing). My shoe insoles did fit in one pair of shoes and I had no feet pain.
When I walk I have no ballerina at all. But standing straight is not as easy yet. It's possible but in order for it to look more natural and easy, a lot of stretching is still needed. My main PT (the better one) is currently only working on my Achilles Tendons. I'll post the other exercise I do soon.
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X-rays look like they have decent callous in my opinion, not the best, but decent now. I'm glad you're making progress, hope everything keeps moving forward
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Thanks Movie! I'm one of your subscribers on youtube :D Happy to see you doing well.
Today I walked for 40minutes straight unaided again and without any pain. Only my new shoe insoles are causing discomfort but that was expected.
I also purchased supplements (worth around 100€) so depending on what you try during your journey you might spend a couple of hundred euros additionally just for supplements and protein... I don't know wether it helps but it's worth a try
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http://imgur.com/a/vao44ct
These are other exercises I do. The last exercise is a bit difficult to explain.
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http://imgur.com/a/vao44ct
These are other exercises I do. The last exercise is a bit difficult to explain.
1. Did you need to fly to his office to do an in person consultation months before the surgery? (ex: had to make two trips to Greece to make this happen?) Do you recommend a hotel near his office for the first consultation? I guess a one night air bnb might be better for the first in person consultation before finalizing the surgery?
2. Was the below their address? From what I can tell on the website https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leof.+Vasileos+Konstantinou+44,+Athina+116+35,+Greece/@37.9721479,23.7435028,18z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x14a1bd419ef089c3:0xb47e7ca4b25ad8fd!8m2!3d37.9725518!4d23.7441814
3. I am thinking of going with MESKA (the mediterrnean rehabilitation center in Loutraki that is associated with Giotikas, as their inpatient) during lengthening. Do you know of anyone who went this route? How did their experiences go? Who might be good to ask on this forum?
Thanks!!!!
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On Monday I went to a local orthopedist who seemed to be curious about my X-rays when I contacted him because of my feet problem a few weeks earlier.
He did notice that my callus is better in the back than in the front but he said that we should wait a couple of months and see if it gets better. He said that I should come again in February and if it doesn't grow much more until then he would recommend a shock wave therapy / extracorporeal shockwave therapy. He wants me to ask my doctor (Dr. Giotikas) what he thinks about it. I haven't done it yet but I'll e-mail him. He also advised me to walk completely unaided as I don't weigh much and the nail is supposed to be strong enough. It's better for the bone growth.
Besides my daily PT, I walked for 53 minutes straight and later for 30 minutes again today. I am capable of much more but I have to do a lot of research about my future studies lately which keeps me behind my laptop. I need to change that and be more active.
My left foot was fine again but now that I use the shoe insole my orthopedist had prescribed me for my flat feet it hurts again when I take off my shoes. Maybe it'll adjust itself sometime.
The shin pain is gone, too.
1. Did you need to fly to his office to do an in person consultation months before the surgery? (ex: had to make two trips to Greece to make this happen?) Do you recommend a hotel near his office for the first consultation? I guess a one night air bnb might be better for the first in person consultation before finalizing the surgery?
2. Was the below their address? From what I can tell on the website https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leof.+Vasileos+Konstantinou+44,+Athina+116+35,+Greece/@37.9721479,23.7435028,18z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x14a1bd419ef089c3:0xb47e7ca4b25ad8fd!8m2!3d37.9725518!4d23.7441814
3. I am thinking of going with MESKA (the mediterrnean rehabilitation center in Loutraki that is associated with Giotikas, as their inpatient) during lengthening. Do you know of anyone who went this route? How did their experiences go? Who might be good to ask on this forum?
Thanks!!!!
1. I did fly to Athens for the consultation and flew there again for a second time for the surgery. In my case it wasn't a big deal since I live in europe. Maybe you can ask Dr. Giotikas if you can arrange the consultation a few days before the surgery. I heard that there are doctors that make that possible. I stayed in a very cheap hostel in the city center and paid 12€ for a taxi to the hospital (The taxi app BEAT is very good). But there is a good public transit which you can also use to get there. Of course airbnb nearby the hospital is also possible.
2. I had my consultation in the hospital in which the surgery will be made.
--> Mediterraneo Hospital, Ilias 8-12, Glifada 166 75, Greece (E-mail athensbjr to be sure!)
3. I'm sorry I don't know much about MESKA maybe Jolien knows more about it.
I hope I didn't reply too late! Good luck!
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just walked for 62 minutes straight. sidewards or backwards walking is no problem either.
the only challenges left are:
- to squat down
- to kneel
- to go downstairs without holding on to sth
- to stand completely straight without effort
I currently have 3 times PT per week with one physiotherapist who is good at his job. The PT is even paid by my insurance because it is prescribed by my doctor. Next week I will start to go to the gym once a week. It's not a normal gym as it is run by physiotherapists. I will be counseled by my PT and I will pay the gym myself.
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Good update Great321. Hope to see you get past these challenges soon!
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Good update Great321. Hope to see you get past these challenges soon!
Thank you! Working on it :)
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just followed on ur diary. ur journey has been nice with its ups and down just like me. anyways keep me updated and hope for the best now in future for you.
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Yes it was quite difficult some times. I will, good luck to you as well!
The last few days I had a little pain on a certain area of both my shins. It was weirdly the same spot. For a few days I used the crutches again which let the "pain"/discomfort disappear as it had only occured when I was walking. Today the shins feel normal again but I will be cautious.
@Leviathan: Da ich in dieser Stunde schon zwei private Nachrichten verschickt hab, kann ich dir erst in frühestens ca. 40 Minuten antworten...geht hier irgendwie nicht anders
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I noticed an improvement today. When I was done with working out I wanted to leave the gym, there were a couple of steps for which I had used the railing for support in the past. But today I tried to climb them down without holding onto something and it worked :) I don't dare to try it on every stair yet but I'll get there.
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it might not look huge but i think its a big. It reveals the legs newer found capabilities without trying it much. gudluck further
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Update - New video - 81 days after LATN surgery
This is me climbing stairs. I'm still a bit slow at it but I'm getting there soon.
(I hold my hands like that, so that you can see that I'm doing it unaided)
You can see two railings, a darker one on the right (from the viewer's perspective) and a brighter one to the left. We had to install the brighter railing after the first surgery because I couldn't use the force of my legs to climb stairs, I mostly used my arms to get up and down. It was very difficult sometimes, especially when I had a problem with one of my legs. It's only a few days ago when I still had to use at least one railing to feel safe. Conclusion: Don't expect to use stairs with TSF frames without a railing on each side. It might be possible for some people, but I wasn't able to. With LATN on the other hand, it will be possible to use one railing from the beginning on.
--> https://imgur.com/4DKRZBN
it might not look huge but i think its a big. It reveals the legs newer found capabilities without trying it much. gudluck further
Yes it's a milestone! I hadn't been able to climb stairs unaided for over a year now. I don't know if I could have done it without all the PT and (since recently the workout in the gym). I guess even without PT your body will adapt and grow muscles but that might take much longer.
Challenges left
- to squat down
- to kneel
- to go downstairs without holding on to sth
- to stand completely straight without effort
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congrats bro looks good as if you'd never got surgery, a tad bit slow going down but that's you being careful and the beginning stages of what's to come.
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Congratulations on your progress. You look great on the stairs and are ahead of me on recovery.
By comparison, our initial surgeries were within one month of each other; however, I lengthened about 9 cm compared to your 5 cm so it is expected that my recovery will take longer.
Even so, I walked about 7 uneventful miles this Saturday just to see if I could but still would like to be able to go down stairs like you.
Keep working at it!
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congrats bro looks good as if you'd never got surgery, a tad bit slow going down but that's you being careful and the beginning stages of what's to come.
Thanks! Yes I'm still cautious! I don't even want to imagine how it could be like falling on my knees.
Congratulations on your progress. You look great on the stairs and are ahead of me on recovery.
By comparison, our initial surgeries were within one month of each other; however, I lengthened about 9 cm compared to your 5 cm so it is expected that my recovery will take longer.
Even so, I walked about 7 uneventful miles this Saturday just to see if I could but still would like to be able to go down stairs like you.
Keep working at it!
Thank you! Right 9cm is a whole different level but I'm sure with enough PT and stretching of the calves you will be climbing stairs like a pro soon ;) 7 miles sound quite a lot! I think I could do that only with a lot of stops ...
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just want to share how my PT looks like currently. I still go to my PT 3 times per week, we exercise things like kneeling and I definitely notice an improvement but I don't dare yet to put my knees/shins with its whole weight on a surface, also because numb skin(parts of my shins) on a hard surface just feels "icky". I also go to the gym 3 times per week and thus I don't do anything additionally at home except for stretching my calves/Achilles tendons and walking around.
At the gym I work on machines that are part of something called "Milon Zirkel" which according to my PT can replace the exercises I normally should have done at home. There are 12 machines. About half of them are for the legs/lower body and the other half for the upper body. In the beginning I did the elliptical trainer a few times but I stopped since it causes pain in the shins that I might not be ready for yet. All the machines are automatically adapted to one's own body and strength after letting it scan your wristband. I was able to increase the difficulty level of all machines except for two. One of them you see in the picture below with the woman using it. There you have to raise your legs and push something up. For me it's set to the lowest level it can get but it is still exhausting. I believe that it's because 1. my muscles are still too weak and 2. because certain parts of my upper shin (where the cut was made I guess) and sometimes the knees still hurt with certain exercises (but not always)
The other machine I still can't do better is the machine you can see in the back (man with yellow/green shoes), just the opposite, where you have to press something down. My left leg is stronger than my right, so only my right tibia (fracture area) seem to have a problem with that machine. (happens whenever I have to stop this thing for a moment as it goes upwards automatically.)
Weirdly my left shin hurts when I stretch my calves/Achilles tendons (but the right tibia doesn't), and when I do the "pushing something down movement" it's only the right tibia that hurts. The "pain" is not always the same level, sometimes less, sometimse more but it never stops me from doing those exercises.
I assume that it's the nails that cause those problems. My local orthopedist had told me that it would be better to remove the nails after complete consolidation because it could be possible that I'd need a knee replacement in like 50 years (not because of LL, but generally) and the nails need to be out for such a thing which won't be possible then. Dr. Giotikas on the other hand said that if the nails don't cause any problems they can be left inside. Since he does knee replacements according to his website I will ask him what he thinks about the other doctor's statement. I think that I will let the nails be removed either way even if I'm afraid of another surgery because that might lead to more numbness. (I hope not)
(https://i.imgur.com/7jAXq9l.jpg)
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New video - 3 months since the LATN surgery and about 14 months after the first surgery
--> https://i.imgur.com/c2Zi2d6.mp4
I'm living everyday life without any major problems. I can sit up and down without the help of my hands unless it's really quite low. I can go into the bath tub, shower, go outside on my own, drive the car, walk, sit down for a longer time.
What I still can't is
-squatting without holding on to sth
- kneeling
- "Indian style sitting" <- that's what was written in the online dictionary
- sometimes I can walk for an hour or more, sometimes half an hour tires my tibias
- I can stand straight but unlike before the LL surgery I literally feel my femur muscles tight in order to keep my body straight, the more I stretch my calves/achilles tendons before the easier it gets but in everyday life I don't think that anyone would notice it as you can also stand by putting one foot a bit in front or behind the other foot and that makes you stand straight without any effort as well. I have to confess that I don't stretch the calves as much as I should. I'll start to do more now and stand on my calf board for half an hour, tomorrow I'll do certain exercises and then I'll stand on the calf board for an hour (probably not in one sitting). I'm sure that this will be solved with time. The only time I notice it is when I walk right after waking up, my achilles tendons need a few steps to stretch until my gait looks normal again, and when I try to stand straight with both feet right next to each other
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Here is a summary of my walking videos so far. you have to know that before my LATN surgery I still used the walker most of the time because of knee pain on the right side. My mistake was that I didn't let remove one wire/pin a lot earlier when it had started to constantly cause problems.
Video of me walking
https://imgur.com/a/UqvQquN
New video
https://imgur.com/a/YPgA2jz
New Video
This is me walking unaided: (I hold the crutches for safety reasons)
https://i.imgur.com/uLSMEUl.mp4
.
Here is a video of me walking unaided from today:
https://i.imgur.com/fVLoEHZ.mp4
New video - 3 months since the LATN surgery and about 14 months after the first surgery
--> https://i.imgur.com/c2Zi2d6.mp4
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My physiotherapist wanted me to kneel today on a rather soft surface on the floor and it worked. I kneeled, first with only one knee and then with both knees. I supported myself with holding on to sth with one hand.
I can also touch the floor with my finger tips when I bend down.
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Just came back from the gym. Today was the first day that my right shin didn't bother me when I did that certain exercise on the machine (see picture above) I guess that my legs got stronger now. I can also climb down the gym stairs faster.
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Update - X-rays - 3 months, 1 week post LATN surgery
These are my new X-rays. On the left side you see the X-rays from last month. On the right, the ones from today. I'm especially happy to see my "left side tibia" progressing much better.
Right Front: https://i.imgur.com/7WwxTkc.jpg
Right Side: https://i.imgur.com/7b6yjHg.jpg
Left Front: https://i.imgur.com/WwATTur.jpg
Left Side: https://i.imgur.com/vzB59RD.jpg
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I have talked to Dr. Giotikas about my X-rays. He said that I won't need bone grafting in the future which I was very afraid of. He noticed that my left leg's bone growth is faster but that there was progress in both legs and that the callus will get even stronger in the next months. He said that unless the nails cause pain I shouldn't worry about removing them in preparation of something like a knee replacement in 50 years (which I'm not more at risk as any other person). And that the nails can be removed also in many years if needed. The nail removal surgery would cost under 2.000€. In 10 weeks I'll get next X-rays. Until then I'm not supposed to jump or run, we will talk again then.
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You did 5 cm righty?
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Hi Great321
Congrats! Your bones looks much better! I am so happy for you! Hope you recover even faster!!
Best,
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You did 5 cm righty?
Yes. (I hope I didn't lost anything after LATN surgery, I don't dare to check it yet)
I had initially lengthened only 4,3cm because I was afraid of getting too much ballerina foot but when my bone growth wasn't faster I lengthened 6 mm more after many months with a certain method by shortening and lengthening in a certain time span (with doctor's consent) I shortened 2mm again due to slow consolidation still, and before LATN I was allowed to lengthen again up until 5cm in total. It was stupid of me to stop at 4,3 in the beginning and it might have not been very wise to do the lengthening of 6mm as my consolidation was already slow but in the end I'm happy to have gained 5cm and not 4,3cm. The slow consolidation was worth it afterall.
Hi Great321
Congrats! Your bones looks much better! I am so happy for you! Hope you recover even faster!!
Best,
Thank you very much Ghostfish :)) I appreciate it!
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I see. Thank you for the answer. Really appreciated, let me know about the final result after LATN surgery.
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Hi really impressed
How much did the surgery cost you?
What was your height before and after the surgery and did you do both femur and tibia or just one of them. I’m thinking of doing two surgeries as my goal is 10cm
Please let me know thank you !
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In the last days/weeks I made some improvements.
1. I can for example get into the car a lot easier. Before I needed the help of both of my hands while now I get into the car like normal people do.
2. I can sit on the floor (on my butt) by squatting a bit (one hand on the floor behind my back for support) and then lowering myself. With the same technique I can stand up again.
3. It's easier to get up from a lower seat
4. I can climb down stairs a bit faster (not 100% as before yet)
5. My "ballerina foot" is gone. At least to the extent that I no more feel like standing on my toes a bit whenever I stand up after waking up or after a long time of sitting. I still stretch my calves though that still feel a bit tight in the mornings. (for the first couple of steps) If possible I want to stretch the calves/Achilles tendons even more since climbing down stairs will get better then.
Before LL standing was a passive activity. I was just standing wherever thinking about whatever. Now standing is something I do actively. I feel how my femur muscles work in order to let me stand straight and I think about whether I stand normally. When I look into the mirror I sometimes even tend to lean backwards because I'm still thinking that I have to compensate as I was used to leaning forward for the last year.
My muscles are definitely stronger than a few months ago but there is still a lot more potential. Because of christmas and new year I had to stop PT for more than 2 weeks. But next week I'll start again. (I only went to the gym) I was also able to increase the difficulty level of one of the machines I had troubles with for a longer time.
The areas at my lower knee and below are still very sensitive. If I accidentally walk into an object it hurts like 4 times more than it normally would.
Hi really impressed
How much did the surgery cost you?
What was your height before and after the surgery and did you do both femur and tibia or just one of them. I’m thinking of doing two surgeries as my goal is 10cm
Please let me know thank you !
roughly above 30.000€ (externals, latn, accomodation)
before:1,60m
after: 1,65m
only tibia
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In the last days/weeks I made some improvements.
1. I can for example get into the car a lot easier. Before I needed the help of both of my hands while now I get into the car like normal people do.
2. I can sit on the floor (on my butt) by squatting a bit (one hand on the floor behind my back for support) and then lowering myself. With the same technique I can stand up again.
3. It's easier to get up from a lower seat
4. I can climb down stairs a bit faster (not 100% as before yet)
5. My "ballerina foot" is gone. At least to the extent that I no more feel like standing on my toes a bit whenever I stand up after waking up or after a long time of sitting. I still stretch my calves though that still feel a bit tight in the mornings. (for the first couple of steps) If possible I want to stretch the calves/Achilles tendons even more since climbing down stairs will get better then.
Before LL standing was a passive activity. I was just standing wherever thinking about whatever. Now standing is something I do actively. I feel how my femur muscles work in order to let me stand straight and I think about whether I stand normally. When I look into the mirror I sometimes even tend to lean backwards because I'm still thinking that I have to compensate as I was used to leaning forward for the last year.
My muscles are definitely stronger than a few months ago but there is still a lot more potential. Because of christmas and new year I had to stop PT for more than 2 weeks. But next week I'll start again. (I only went to the gym) I was also able to increase the difficulty level of one of the machines I had troubles with for a longer time.
The areas at my lower knee and below are still very sensitive. If I accidentally walk into an object it hurts like 4 times more than it normally would.
roughly above 30.000€ (externals, latn, accomodation)
before:1,60m
after: 1,65m
only tibia
hey man great informative diary. Congrats on your recovery so far.
Just curious, how much do you weigh? I weight 175 so might decide to lose some weight if I want to do LATN with Giotikas in the future. Dont know how much weight bearing the nails are
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Sorry if this was already asked, but when do you plan on getting the Stryde part done?
How do the scars look like now?
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I noticed that my calves don't feel tight anymore after waking up. My PT told me that the stronger my femurs get and the more I practice standing straight, the easier it will get. I actually stand more straight now than before LL.
hey man great informative diary. Congrats on your recovery so far.
Just curious, how much do you weigh? I weight 175 so might decide to lose some weight if I want to do LATN with Giotikas in the future. Dont know how much weight bearing the nails are
Not sure, maybe 58kg... I have gained weight since LL
Do you weigh 175kg? Dr. Giotikas actually only offers LON on his website. You should ask him if you can choose LATN instead. Can't remember anymore how much they weight bear, I'm sorry. But Dr. Giotikas/his staff usually replies within days.
Sorry if this was already asked, but when do you plan on getting the Stryde part done?
How do the scars look like now?
Regarding Stryde: not planned any time soon, most likely I won't do another surgery since my proportions now look good, it would look bad to do another LL
The LATN scars are barely visible. But the scars from the external method are quite visible, I assume they will look better with time but still not good enough. (in terms of: people will notice them right away when I wear short pants)
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Update - Squatting Video
This is me squatting: https://i.imgur.com/7RautxJ.mp4
Still not back to normal but I will definitely get close to it since I am able to do more and more, things that I couldn't imagine doing weeks ago.
The only big challenges that are left are:
- kneeling on hard surfaces
- walking for a longer time without getting tired or getting small pains here and there
(I still have to exercise squatting and stuff but it's not that difficult anymore)
Things that I haven't tried yet because Dr. Giotikas wanted me to wait:
- running
- jumping (only a little bit)
Soon I'll get new X-rays.
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I hope you would get your target soon
Good luck
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Congrats man! You look like you got a great range of motion there.
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Saw your last video, looks amazing. So happy for you mate! Keep going with the good work!
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thank you guys! I appreciate your support!
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New X-rays 21.02.2020 - About 5 months after LATN surgery
My local German orthopedist said that my X-rays look just fine and that I don't have to worry about the "dent". I sent the X-rays to Dr. Giotikas. Haven't talked to him yet. What bothers me is that I indeed have lost some height after LATN surgery. I don't know how to exactly measure my height but it seems that only my morning height is 1,65m. Later in the day I'm more like 1,64m. Depending which shoes I wear I can reach up to 1,68m though and since many people nowadays wear shoes with a big sole, they won't notice the height difference when I take off the shoes.
Front both tibias: https://i.imgur.com/oRJQ9VH.jpg
Right side: https://i.imgur.com/malAhT7.jpg
Left side: https://i.imgur.com/clNfclL.jpg
Interesting side fact: I had ordered shoes from Nike a few days ago and they had put shoe insoles (0,8cm) inside the shoe box which is an indicator that more and more people might wear shoe insoles "just for fun" even if they don't think that they're short
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how much height did you lose you think?
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I don't know exactly but probably at least a couple of mm. That's what I also expected though. Well, I could have lengthened a bit more since other LL also mentioned that they have "lost" height after frame removal or else but the most important thing for me is that I'm happy to not have any ballerina foot anymore and that I didn't need ATL. So better to have a bit less height than ballerina foot and more complications.
Actually I could imagine to get a couple more cm with Stryde sometime but I would want to finance that myself and because of other reasons I would have to wait for 8+ years anyways. Who knows If I still think about it then.
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I read your diary it sems im only get crazy cm and made second operation tibia without wait my femur start heal , i hope i will be fine , i litle start worry because i reach 10cm on femur and in same day remove device and made tibia, for now i canot wallk yet , 5 days after surgery
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I wish you good luck! Initially I also wanted to do tibias and femurs at the same time but I'm happy that I decided against it because tibias were already hard enough. Stay strong!
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Hi, what is your meaning, is it too risky to do femur and tibia at the same time? or you think tibia lengthening is enough? thanks
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Hey Great congrats on your successful outcome!
can you please upload pics of your scars? I want to do LON or LATN on tibias with Dr. Lee or Giotikas as well
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Hi, what is your meaning, is it too risky to do femur and tibia at the same time? or you think tibia lengthening is enough? thanks
both at the same time is the worst someone could do to themselves, in my opinion
Hey Great congrats on your successful outcome!
can you please upload pics of your scars? I want to do LON or LATN on tibias with Dr. Lee or Giotikas as well
Scars with externals are very bad. Jolien's scars look better, they have used a different frame on her with less pins. Maybe that's also possible for you. I won't share pictures since you can be identified by scars like that
Quick update
I regret not having done Stryde or LON. it's worth to save more money for this kind of surgery
- my scars are visible (not the end of the world but another lie I have to tell people about me)
- regarding skin numbness: my left leg is fine, my right leg (right below the knee part) is very numb and feels gross when it is touched by another object
- the areas below the knees are still very sensitive, if hit by an object or if I bump into something, it hurts like hell
- kneeling on a soft surface is okay but hurts, especially because of the nails that are very close to the skin, haven't tried to kneel on a hard surface, it's basically not possible because of the nails
- walking a lot on even roads is not a problem but I live in a place with many stairs and hills which makes my knees/feet hurt all the time. I feel a bit disabled because of that, like an old man, can't imagine going on a big hike again, or climbing (anytime soon) I mean I'm still fast but walking down stairs is not as smooth anymore but I blame it on the nails
next step: getting the nails removed, probably around february 2021!! I hope a lot that things will change then! (at least my german doctor told me that the pain comes from the nails ...)
it's frustrating to know that you are so young but not as fit as someone that age. Like I used to be. I might have gotten a better result with Stryde or LON but I was too focused on the price. You shouldn't be.
It's also frustrating that I only reached 1,64m instead of 1,65m (as my plan was), at least that's what I got when I measured myself on my own a couple of months ago. I try not to think about it. I'll use 1cm-2cm lifts once my nails are out (don't want to mess around with my sensitive legs before that)
I don't regret LL but my results could have been better If I spent more money. My body wasn't right for externals because of the slow bone growth back then. I'm not an expert, I can't say how much Dr. Giotikas' skills were responsible for my bone growth. Anyways as someone who isn't 1,60m anymore, it's convenient not to be smaller than every single person I encounter. On pictures, I'm not smaller than my sister anymore. I feel more confident, knowing that with my shoes and (later) with lifts I'm a bit closer to the men's world average than to 1,60...
It was a big sacrifice but in my case I can deal with it so far and I don't hope that I will get any chronic illnesses during my 30s because of this surgery.
I'll give you an update next year
edit: I can run for only a little bit and not fast because of the discomfort and pain of the nails. That can be a problem if you have to run to catch a bus or train.
hiking in the forest for about 6kms was possible last time and during my vacation I walked for about 10.000steps each day. But I am exhausted afterwards and do need to rest. Most of the time, the pain disappears by itself and I'm fit the next day again. Maybe two times during the last months, there was a pain that had worried me more but those had also disappeared the next day
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Hey. Its been almost 2 years sincr ur tibia surgery. Do you think your recovery was slow in comparison with other diaries? You did 5cm right?
Ive got the feeling that your recovery was quite slow.
How old are you?
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New X-rays 21.02.2020 - About 5 months after LATN surgery
My local German orthopedist said that my X-rays look just fine and that I don't have to worry about the "dent". I sent the X-rays to Dr. Giotikas. Haven't talked to him yet. What bothers me is that I indeed have lost some height after LATN surgery. I don't know how to exactly measure my height but it seems that only my morning height is 1,65m. Later in the day I'm more like 1,64m. Depending which shoes I wear I can reach up to 1,68m though and since many people nowadays wear shoes with a big sole, they won't notice the height difference when I take off the shoes.
Front both tibias: https://i.imgur.com/oRJQ9VH.jpg
Right side: https://i.imgur.com/malAhT7.jpg
Left side: https://i.imgur.com/clNfclL.jpg
Interesting side fact: I had ordered shoes from Nike a few days ago and they had put shoe insoles (0,8cm) inside the shoe box which is an indicator that more and more people might wear shoe insoles "just for fun" even if they don't think that they're short
Look at this poor guy , it has been 2 years only he did 3 cm and still recovering
suffering from numbness and pain in knee
look at his Xray if he say 5 cm , This not true
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Hey. Its been almost 2 years sincr ur tibia surgery. Do you think your recovery was slow in comparison with other diaries? You did 5cm right?
Ive got the feeling that your recovery was quite slow.
How old are you?
yes, my bone growth was quite slow, slower as some others. 5cm were my plan. And I did lengthen 5cm BUT when the nails are inserted there is a chance of losing some height. So during the day I'm 1,64m instead of 1,65m. Before I was 1,60m. Morning height is 1,65 though
Look at this poor guy , it has been 2 years only he did 3 cm and still recovering
suffering from numbness and pain in knee
look at his Xray if he say 5 cm , This not true
Dude you should learn to read...
Anyways
I was at a party yesterday and I was wearing about 3cm lifts. The shoe sole itself was probably adding 1cm by itself. So I was 1,68m which made me the same height as many girls there or taller. Of course there were also enough who were still taller. It felt quite good to not feel that abnormal small as before (1,60m).
Somehow this one girl was talking about a BMI related topic and was asking people about their height when she asked me I just said small (with laughter), so she tried to guess and asked wether I was 1,70m or 1,75m ...[since she was 1,70m herself as she claimed...which I doubt since we were the same height (with my lifts) so it was weird that she even thought I was 1,75m, that made no sense at all. This shows that some people have no clue about the specific numbers...]
I had no problem at all connecting with all the women, I even think that at least 2 had interest in me since one of them messaged me the next day.
Among the other men there was one guy my height and another guy who was taller but both had little confidence and didn't talk much.
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Hey. Its been almost 2 years sincr ur tibia surgery. Do you think your recovery was slow in comparison with other diaries? You did 5cm right?
Ive got the feeling that your recovery was quite slow.
How old are you?
2 years, I though Giotikas was some kind of God
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Doctors can't control bone formation rate. There are a couple of delayed consolidation in the ballpark of 2-3 years for full callus formation by Paley patients. It's kinda genetic, or someone's smoking and doing bad stuff, and no fault of the doctor.
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I had my surgery in october 2018 and the nails were inserted in September 2019, soon after my bones were consolidating and just a few weeks after nail insertion I was able to walk
So no 2 years. If I had chosen for LATN 6 months after externals like Dr. G had actually suggested to me, I would have been done with all of this earlier.
Externals are very good to avoid any kind of knee damage (I still believe that mine will get a lot better in the future) but the recovery with LATN for example is a lot faster.
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All dr.G patients have some problems ( who did external but internal ......no proof look like advertisement)
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All dr.G patients have some problems ( who did external but internal ......no proof look like advertisement)
@ Dr. X-ray Know it All more
I been reading Great321 dairy before my CLL and even once thought Dr. G was a scam asking to wire the funds before surgery. I did more research on Dr. G, Dr. P, Dr. R, Dr. L and Dr. M than you can imagine. If it wasn’t for Great321 showing me PROOF and reassuring that Dr. G was not scam, I would have never done CLL in 2019.
I really don’t know what is your problem with all Dr. G dairies but just to be nice to you, you really need some help. Which part of his dairy or any of Dr. G dairy reads like advertisement?
(who did external but internal ......no proof look like advertisement) = where’s the logic to your statement, just running your mouth again. Why do you feel CLL vets need to proof anything to you?
There are current patients of Dr. G on this forum that didn’t post their dairy, what’s your answer to that Dr. Know it all MOLE.
I’ll wait for your reply on your Tread: Once a Upon a Time. Still awaiting for your last reply. Reply if you are man enough in that tread.
Stop trashing dairies unless you know for a Fact, what you claim is true. Have a little respect for all CLL patients that started a dairy even if you dislike or disagree with their action like Meck’s dairy.
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I had my surgery in october 2018 and the nails were inserted in September 2019, soon after my bones were consolidating and just a few weeks after nail insertion I was able to walk
So no 2 years. If I had chosen for LATN 6 months after externals like Dr. G had actually suggested to me, I would have been done with all of this earlier.
Externals are very good to avoid any kind of knee damage (I still believe that mine will get a lot better in the future) but the recovery with LATN for example is a lot faster.
What do you feel are the pros and cons of these two options:
1. Getting external tibias an then getting an elaborate tatoo over it to cover the scars
2. Getting internals for tibias
Thanks!
a. In other words, I am wondering if tattoos can really 100% hide the tibia scars and also I'm wondering if external tibias have health risks which are greater than the internal risks for tibias
b. The other issue that crossed my mind was that if externals are miserable and will result in less leg lengthening in practice because people hate external frames/will try to stop lengthenign sooner than if they had internals
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Hey Great321, please check your PM. I have a couple question regarding Giotikas as I’m planning to go soon!
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Update - 21.09.2020 - 1 year after LATN surgery - 2 years after external surgery
X-rays
Front view both legs: https://i.imgur.com/VllXamn.jpg
Side view both legs: https://i.imgur.com/slQoiKr.jpg
left side COMPARISON (02/20 vs. 09/20): https://i.imgur.com/FVfBuzo.jpg
right side COMPARISON (02/20 vs. 09/20): https://i.imgur.com/T5dsCKL.jpg
German doctor's evaluation of my X-rays (in German): https://i.imgur.com/ANYoyc5.jpg
--> summary: everything looks fine
If Corona allows it, I want to get the nails removed by next year because they still bother me from time to time. I live a normal life except for not kneeling on hard surfaces or walking for more than 6km (because my legs get quite tired/warm if I walk too much), haven't tried running, of course I can jog for a bit but I feel like the nails will cause pain then.
What do you feel are the pros and cons of these two options:
1. Getting external tibias an then getting an elaborate tatoo over it to cover the scars
2. Getting internals for tibias
Thanks!
a. In other words, I am wondering if tattoos can really 100% hide the tibia scars and also I'm wondering if external tibias have health risks which are greater than the internal risks for tibias
b. The other issue that crossed my mind was that if externals are miserable and will result in less leg lengthening in practice because people hate external frames/will try to stop lengthenign sooner than if they had internals
Internals for tibias will leave scars too but of course not as many. I have been outside with my legs full of scars and told everyone that I had an accident that I don't want to talk about. Everyone (relatives, old and new friends accepted this). Most people don't even ask, they just briefly look at them. I want to go to a cosmetic surgeon in Germany and ask about my possibilities to remove the scars by surgery. After that there might be options like permanent make up that I want to look into. I'm not a fan of tattoos on my legs. In the end I can accept some scars.
Any scar can be spotted under a tattoo if someone looks very closely but from afar not really. I think external tibias is the safest option out there. I would try it, if problems occur like too much pain or slow bone growth, you can still get LATN. (Still if you can afford Stryde, that might be better)
My reason why I had stopped lengthening in the very beginning was due to my fear of getting too much ballerina. Now I wish that I had lengthened about 5,3cm and changed to LATN afterwards.
Hey Great321, please check your PM. I have a couple question regarding Giotikas as I’m planning to go soon!
Done
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Bone shapped up back pretty good there, congrats man.
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So 2 years for 5cm? Seems awfully long
Still planning on stryde Femurs now? Thank it'll be good for ya
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Bone shapped up back pretty good there, congrats man.
Thanks, Movie! Appreciate it :)
So 2 years for 5cm? Seems awfully long
Still planning on stryde Femurs now? Thank it'll be good for ya
Technically I have been on my feet since the LATN surgery a year ago which means 1 year for about 5cm. And yes, it was awfully long and I'm not back to 100% but it was still worth it for me. Well, I don't know. I need to 1. see how my knee situation will develop after nail removal 2. I would only want to add about 4cm since it would look weird proportion wise, if it's still this expensive in more than 10 years then most likely no (depending on my financial situation too). I'm convinced that I can be happy with what I have now plus 2-3cm lifts. I have been around people and my new height felt better already.
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Little update: My nails have been removed in May and April 2021 by Dr. Köhne (I wanted to do it with Dr. Giotikas but because of Covid my flights had been cancelled) Luckily the nail removal was paid through my health insurance. If I had done it in Greece I would have had to pay it myself.
The recovery in general after those surgeries (one leg after the other) was surprisingly quick. I was able to walk within days without much pain (of course not completely normal). In the beginning I was a bit afraid as using the stairs wasn't easy and hurtful for my ankles but that disappeared! Some areas around my left ankle and knee felt numb but that too disappeared after a while.
For a few months I suffered with knee pain on my right knee but the second I got insoles for my shoes because I always had those splayfeet long before my leg lengthening the knee pain disappeared and I had thought that it's because of the nail removal... well that was stupid to not have tried the insoles a lot earlier
I still haven't tried to run as I did before the Leg Lengthening Surgery, also I haven't gone for a very long walk since the nail removal surgery. So I still have to try those things out.
What I know is that I can walk painlessly and with a complete normal gaze, I can walk quickly.
I can jump.
I can kneel on soft grounds like my mattress or the carpet etc. (still I didn't exercise that a lot and want to because the knees are still a bit sensitive, haven't tried the hard surfaces yet)
I can squat normally but didn't practice that a lot so far.
I'm not in pain.
What I might not be able to do: Climbing (where you need your knees for support while putting them on hard surfaces)
I will update you sometime when I tried more.
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Something I want to add. For me I do not regret this surgery for a day. Even though it's just a few cms more I feel a lot more confident. Because of Corona I couldn't get to know a lot of women but right now there is one who really likes me even though she has a complete different type (men who are a lot taller for example). I'm just a little bit taller than her but I'm sure that my chances would have been less before my LL. I don't even have any visible muscles and am rather skinny so far but my new height and my personality are my advantages. I started to hit the gym again so I think I can optimize my chances even more.
Also on a professional level I feel more confident thinking about my future job and not being the smallest in the room.
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Congratulations Bro, well deserved!
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"I wanted to do it with Dr. Giotikas but because of Covid my flights had been cancelled"
ty!!!! Covid is causing cancelled flights to Greece nowadays? What is the situation like?
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Great to hear you're recovering well. How about the scars, are they ok?