Limb Lengthening Forum

And maybe one more side note, my wingspan is 181cm. So maybe i am just one of those freaks 

Bother because i am in Germany, where the average is quite above my 173cm.
No, my tibias+femurs summed up are currently 89cm. I just said, in case i would lengthen 10cm, to reach the infamous 6 feet in total, i would be at 99cm legs. Which would result in a LBR of 0.54 by the way - which i found to be rated as still attractive, according to some studies, which i could link tomorrow after getting sleep hehe. I know, your argument is to focus on trunk vs legs, makes sense to me. Still, i dont wanna fall into the alien category, how some of you call it here
I guess i will just end up measuring more genetic freaks like Henry these days and then decide. I appreciate your input by the way!

tilli:

Dude, your legs are already fcking long relative to your total height. 99 / 173 = 0.57 so I can imagine how you look without clothes, LOL. Women should be jealous of you, not kidding.  I'm afraid LL is not for you and you already have an acceptable height so why bother?

Tibia should be about 80% of femur length, so in 45:55 ratio. For example, if my tibia to femur ratio is already 45:55, in order to get the same ratio post double LL of 11.5 cm total, I have to split that 11.5 cm into 45:55 ratio for tibia and femur, respectively. For tibia it is  5.2 cm and for femur it is 6.3 cm. For aesthetics and biomechanics point of view, it would be the best split if one already has 45:55 tib-femur ratio.

Yeah still i would have been interested in how you fount out about the 113cm norm? I cannot see that in the image you linked. Not even if i combine certain measurements - but you seem to be the better analyst of us both by far haha

This post is interesting to be since i know i am having a low sitting height of 87.5 with a height of 173. I know it is on the shorter side, if i multiply it by 2 it is 175 so from that perspective it sound ok.
However, if i follow your calculations, and i do have concrete measurements of my femur and tibias already, if i sum them up i am at 89cm already, before leg lengthening. You could even continue calculating the rest of your ratios, but already at this point it is clear that my legs are relatively long already, without LL.
All in all this makes me question if LL is the right thing for me.

I know there are famous people like Henry Cavill out there with crazy proportions, but i am wondering if they would be as extreme as mine.

Plus, this image seems pretty old, maybe even outdated? I don't know, when i look at the measurments of tibias and femur, it almost seems like the image is suggesting the tibias to be longer than the femur? Or is this an optical illusion - i did not measure it. Anyways, we all know that femur is almost always longer than tibias.

If i lengthened 10cm to get to 183 (6 feet), my legs would basically be 99cm long. This could look pretty much off. I mean, i am somewhat muscular and plan to get in shape even more afterwards, but still. I am not sure about that whole thing when thinking about these proportions.

After dozens of diaries I've read almost all patients complained that femur pain is so excruciating that it's not even comparable to tibia pain. It's scary to be honest.

I wonder what distraction feels like. I can imagine it but the actual experience would be very interesting to be honest. Also, I think that distraction on femurs has to be more painful due to large muscles surrounding the bone.

I'm not afraid of pain, what I'm afraid the most is bone infection. Other inconveniences can be dealt with much effort and discipline but bone infection is the scariest thing of LL there is.

Also, I'm kinda afraid of internal nailing. I know that doing femurs with pure external is a suicide so it's either LON or fully internal nails for femurs. Either way it involves nailing while you can avoid nails when doing tibia with Ilizarov or TSF.

Navel height is kinda useless to be honest. It varies depending if you relax your abdomen or tighten it.

The most important proportion for LL is leg-to-trunk (not leg-to-body) ratio. This ratio determines how much can you lengthen until you become uncanny nked.

Leg-to-trunk ratio can be calculated in 2 ways:

1. Measure your sternal notch height from the floor. Then, measure your crotch height from the floor. Subtract your crotch height from sternal notch height. The result is your trunk length. Divide crotch height by trunk height and write down the result.

2. Measure your legs using x-rays (the sum of full lengths of tibia and femur). Measure your sternal notch height from floor. Subtract the leg length you got on x-rays from sternal notch height. The result is your trunk length. Divide your leg length by trunk length and write down the result.

Number 2 is preferred way as it allows to measure your total leg length down to mm precision. Measuring your leg length from floor to crotch is erroneous as it's very hard to know where the middle line of crotch is. But, you can get a good approximation of your leg length nevertheless. IMO you have to measure up to about where your penis begins.

Now, why it's a bad idea to use leg-to-body ratio: neck and head lengths vary a lot even for the same height persons. I myself have 137 sternal notch height while standing at 165 cm tall. This means that the distance from sternal notch to top of my head is 28 cm or something. The distance from sternal notch to my chin is 4-5 cm as my head length is 23-24 cm. Someone at my sternal notch height might be standing at 3-4 cm taller than me due to having longer neck and / or longer head. My neck is short so if I had 2-3 cm longer neck, I would stand at 167-168 cm instead of 165 cm. So, someone at the same sternal notch height might stand 3, 4 or even 5 cm taller due to having longer neck and / or head. That's why it's better to use leg-to-trunk ratio because you want to have your legs in proportion to your trunk length in the end.

As I said earlier, my sternal notch height is 137 cm and my crotch height is about 77-78 cm which should correspond to my tibia and femur lengths of about 35 cm and 43 cm. So, my trunk length is 137 - 77 or 78 = 59 or 60 cm.

The most attractive leg-to-body ratio for males is 0.50. For a 165 cm man who has a sternal notch height of 137 cm, this means that his legs should be 82.5 cm tall (either from floor to crotch or his tibia + femur bones should be 82.5 cm in total). So, his trunk length should be 137 - 82.5 = 54.5 cm. Interestingly, this number is in line of total arm length (excluding hands). Total arm length is the distance from acromion bone to radial bone bump on wrist. It should be about 0.33 of one's total height. My arm length is 72 cm from acromion bone to middle finger and my hand length is 17.5 cm so the distance from acromion bone to radial bump is exactly 54.5 cm but since I have 59-60 cm trunk length and 77-78 cm leg length combination instead of 54.5 cm trunk length and 82.5 cm leg length combination, my arms hang 4.5-5.5 cm higher relative to my crotch.

So, 82.5 / 165 = 0.50 and 82.5 / 54.5 = 1.5138. The latter ratio is more useful as it's the ratio of leg-to-trunk length instead of leg-to-body. So, it's better to lengthen your legs according to the latter ratio.

For me, to reach the perfect leg-to-trunk length ratio, I have to lengthen either 11.5 cm or 14 cm depending if my legs are 77 cm or 78 cm currently. If I go higher than that numbers, every cm will make a visible difference and make me unattractive.

The only issue is arm length as it remains the same after LL but as we know, leg-to-body ratio is more important for attractiveness and IMO after 11.5 cm lengthening, I will look much better than I do now even though I will have the arms made for 165 cm man.

Is arm lengthening necessary? I think that it is not. Since forearm lengthening is a joke and hand lengthening doesn't exist, only humerus can be lengthened. For example, 165 cm man should have about 34.3 cm long humerus while 178 cm man should have 37 cm. The difference is just 2.7 cm but it's a noticeable difference. Does it worth for it for me to lengthen my humerus for about 3 cm if I become 178 cm tall? Now, if it was 100% safe and didn't have radial nerve injury risks and didn't leave scars (internal humerus lengthening has rotator cuff injury chance so it's not worth it) then I might considered it but IMO it's not worth the risks, time, inconvenience and money. After 15+ cm leg lengthening it's another story though.

I also find this nerdy and interesting at the same time.
The 4 measurements you mentioned in the beginning ... can you highlight them in the linked graphic maybe?
For instance, how do you calculate 113cm for the navel height?

For those who have done limb lengthening and experienced similar pain before. What is the thing you can compare it to?
I need some equivalents of limb lengthening pain (ie what pain is most similar to).

If you had read my VERY detailed diary, you could already know the answer...
But I repeat here for you:
There are TWO MAIN DIFFERENT kind of pain.

First one is like any poli-traumatism. That means broken bones, cut muscle, holes and nails in bones, screws, etc

Second one is elongation pain, which is unique, non imagined by nature, because is artificial and forced...  That happen because EVERYTHING is stretched in very short time... like muscles, tendons, vessels, fascias and ESPECIALLY nerves !
It is very hard to explain how is it, because, as I said, there is no compare.
Its a permanent and weird pain. If you stretch your legs and after 5 minutes try to flex it, you have a big pain and you have to do it very slow.
If your legs been flexed for a while and want to stretch them... you have again a big pain and you have to do it very slow.
This pain usually comes after 5 cm on femur and 3 cm on tibias, depending by previous elasticity you had...

Ofcourse, there is a third pain, the infection’s pain… but usually happen external, to LON and Ilizarov… and extremely rare inside-the-bone infection

Also, if the air or water is cold... you can feel instantly a sciatic nerve pain, which is really bad.


You're welcome !

I had had  frameroval about 6months ago.
I dont have infection now.
But during I had been have extenal frame, due to barbaric PT
my pin-site is always bleeding, so they expose me to risk
of infection.

It was the worst pain I’ve ever experienced however the breakout episodes rarely exceeded 30 minutes.