Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: Stand taller on January 14, 2022, 10:45:41 AM
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Today is the first day of the rest of my life. After first finding out about this procedure back in 2016, I knew this was something I wanted to do. But like other things "life just happened" and time passed by. And then there is the whole saving up the funds that takes some time. Here we are though, six years later and I am about to change my life forever.
I currently stand at 165cm tall, and my X-rays look very good. If possible we will 11-12cm. If everything works out fine, and my body copes with lengthening well I may stand at as much as 176-177cm tall in four to five months. Wish me luck!
I'm now just sitting here waiting for Dr Betz to bring me into the surgery room.
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Congratulations!
Interested to hear how you will manage with the “clicking” process.
All the best.
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is it possible to go back with betzbone and gnail? Likeu can do with Precice
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Hi Stand taller! Congratulations on getting the surgery. Just want to ask some questions. 11-12cm in just one lengthening period, how long will it take you to lengthen? Where are you from and how long are you staying in Germany? Did Betz give you a timeline for full recovery if you indeed do 12 cm? Thanks and well wishes!!
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Day 2
Good morning!
Yesterday was surgery, and everything went well. Two hous after surgery I was rolled into my own room, and after another two hours Dr Betz came with some colleagues. With assistance from them I walked out of the room and around 5-6 meters down the hallway before I started to get nauseous. I am amazed that I could actually walk this soon after surgery.
Most of the evening and during the night I've slept. Pain levels have been close to none existent while laying bed and totally manageable while walking on crutches to the toilet with help from the nurse. I only had to ask for one extra painmed around 02:30 form the nurse dude to pain (paintlevel around 3-4/10) so I could sleep.
This morning though I actually got out of bed, walked to the toilet on crutches, stod upright and peed (instead of sitting) washed my hands, walked back on crutches and got into bed all by myself! Pain is very manageable, and it is actually worse while moving on and out of bed - and NOT while walking. This is also the hardest thing to do because to stiffness in my legs.
My only "issues" so far has been nauseousness while the general anesthesia was leaving my system around 18:00-22:00 yesterday. Today I am totally fine.
Dr Betx told me yesterday that the total length I can go because of my bones and anatomy is 11cm. When I actually get to 11cm there is a possibility to got an extra 0,5cm if everything is 100% fine. After surgery I already stand 0,5cm taller due to get bone separation while inserting the nail, and this was the first thing I noticed while standing up. In my head I want to be 177cm tall because I will only be around 2cm below average where I live, but I think I will be more than fine standing at 176cm.
Either way the journey has begun and if everything goes as planned it should take me around four and a halg months to get there!
Stand Taller
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How much Betz costs?
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please think about how you will look with 11cm longer femurs while sitting on a chair or in an airplane
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How much Betz costs?
Betz is is 53700 Euros all included.
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please think about how you will look with 11cm longer femurs while sitting on a chair or in an airplane
I actually measured how much room I would have with 11cm more on an airplane seat on my to Germany. I should have plenty. Luckily I have very short femurs, much shorter than my tibias. My proportions know are very poor and after going 11cm it will be very good and darn close to ideal.
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Everybody have different proportions ofc. But I also lengthened my femurs with Betz and did 9cm. While lengthening I had this euphoria about getting taller. But once reality kicked in I realized I had lengthened to much.
My sincere recommendation to you is to do maximum around 6cm. With a starting height of 165 you will be slightly above 170cm wich is a normal height for men all around the world, including the tallest countries. Not only will you become "normally" tall but your agility will likely remain close to as it was prior to LL. Your proportions will also remain fairly normal.
The biggest mistake people do when doing LL is focusing on numbers. Already in your first post i can tell that you have a "magical number" you want to reach, wich is to become above 175cm. But ask yourself, will your life really be that different with a final height of 173cm compared to 176cm? With 176cm you will become slightly taller but also much more limited in agility.
I was greedy. Don't do my mistake.
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I actually measured how much room I would have with 11cm more on an airplane seat on my to Germany. I should have plenty. Luckily I have very short femurs, much shorter than my tibias. My proportions know are very poor and after going 11cm it will be very good and darn close to ideal.
Please quantify it. What is the tibia to femur to torso ratio?
It's not about how much room you will have on an airplane seat (even 6'3" guys have room) but how it will look when you are sitting next to someone naturally 175cm.
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Ugh...here we are again !
There is so much data n we still have those lenghtening goals in 2022 ..I wonder if they are real at times .
Good luck with ur journey , hope your mind will change trough the process .
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better to keep it 7.5-8 cm proportion wise and functionality
you can use insoles in a later stage to get the 10 cm that you are aiming
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What are the opinions towards splitting the 10cm between the Femur and Tibia. Would this not be the most advantageous long term?
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I actually measured how much room I would have with 11cm more on an airplane seat on my to Germany. I should have plenty. Luckily I have very short femurs, much shorter than my tibias. My proportions know are very poor and after going 11cm it will be very good and darn close to ideal.
Did you have birth defects or similar? It is pretty much unheard of for a normal person to have Tibias longer than femurs.
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Did you have birth defects or similar? It is pretty much unheard of for a normal person to have Tibias longer than femurs.
Just remembered another patient with Bezt who also explained he had a longer Tibia to Femur ratio, this conversation was held on Cyborg’s YouTube channel.
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Hello Standtaller,
Congrats on the beginning of your journey. I myself pulled the trigger 3 months ago. I am/was (I am doing one leg at time) slightly above your height with 167cm. I'm am currently lengthening in Germany as well and have spoken with a few Orthopedists and Ll surgeons in Germany. All of them advised me to not go over the 6cm mark on femurs. My surgeon Dr. Koehne, explicitly advises all of his patients against going over the 6cm mark.
For this reason I am only going for 5cm on femurs, even if this means I will be missing out on a few cm. However, health is always more important than aesthetics and height. Always think long term with these kinds of major life decisions and please reconsider your goal of 11cm.
Betz, while being a very capable surgeon, is notorious for letting his patients overlengthen. One of his patients on this forum wants to shorten his femurs by 3-4cm after doing 11cms with him.
I have met another Betz patient personally, who did 10-11cm, and seen him limb, one year after surgery. Don't make the same mistake. 6-8cm is an incredible height difference as well. You can always still do tibias at a later point in life.
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Just remembered another patient with Bezt who also explained he had a longer Tibia to Femur ratio, this conversation was held on Cyborg’s YouTube channel.
So their natural ratio left them at a high risk of getting arthritis, talk about bad genetics.
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So their natural ratio left them at a high risk of getting arthritis, talk about bad genetics.
Are you referring to a greater T to F ratio as I believe there was an article discussing this posted on the forum but I’m not sure if there was a definitive conclusion?
Would be interesting to know if increasing the ratio even slightly may lead to these conditions later on.
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I believe the literature points out there seems to be a higher presence of arthritis for people who have a higher T to F ratio, likely due to the extra stress on the knee joints. There didn't seem to be any conclusive evidence of whether the inverse was true (ie. a higher F to T ratio). That said, it's always better to be cautious as I'm sure there is likely some effect to the body of having a very high F to T ratio.
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Day Three
Yesterday I was a bit nauseous and actually threw up. The doctors said this was because of the general anesthesia from the surgery leaving my system. I also walked three times down the hallway and back on crutches, I'm guessing around 60-70m back and forth. I also accidentally clicked yesterday as well, one full click. It did not hurt or feel uncomfortable. In general I have very little pain. It was worst this morning before taking my morning dose of painkillers. The Doctor has also said that the pain is at its worse two to three days after surgery.
I seen people commenting this and that about what height I should go, and I will not engage in any discussions. I am not a doctor, you guys are not doctors so I'll let the professionals handle this. And so far it has been smooth sailing. If people get to negative or toxic here I will just delete this thread since my diary is meant to be something positive for me to share. If it gets negative, I will not continue.
On tuesday I will look at he X-rays with the doctor to measure the exact ratio. When it comes to body ratio I am not at all worried about this. When I sit next to friends who are around 177-178cm tall we have the same sitting height and also same tibia height. So adding 11cm to my femurs will improve my proportions dramatically.
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My post wasn't to discourage you at all. Certainly do what you feel is best!
I'm glad to hear you're doing well. I look forward to the updates :D
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Just remembered another patient with Bezt who also explained he had a longer Tibia to Femur ratio, this conversation was held on Cyborg’s YouTube channel.
Yes this was me lol. I lengthened 10,5cm with betz back last year. I had way longer Tibias than femurs so I could pull it off. If your femurs are already quite long compared to your Tibias it will look really weird once you go over a certain amount of length.
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Yes this was me lol. I lengthened 10,5cm with betz back last year. I had way longer Tibias than femurs so I could pull it off. If your femurs are already quite long compared to your Tibias it will look really weird once you go over a certain amount of length.
Nice! You guys are fortunate to obtain theses Femur Lengths without looking weird. :)
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Nice! You guys are fortunate to obtain theses Femur Lengths without looking weird. :)
There's definitely a lot to be considered when deciding for how much length you want to obtain. Starting proportions are just one factor but to be fair a pretty important one. I personally would not have aimed for 10-11cm if my femur would have been already longer than my tibias.
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Yes this was me lol. I lengthened 10,5cm with betz back last year. I had way longer Tibias than femurs so I could pull it off. If your femurs are already quite long compared to your Tibias it will look really weird once you go over a certain amount of length.
Don't remember but isn't normal tibia to femur ratio around 0,84? This means if your femurs and tibia are the same length you can lengthen femurs quite a bit before moving outside of this ratio.
How was you lengthening? How quickly were you able to walk about without crutches? What levels of paint did you have after surgery and while lengthening? For me while laying in bed its been from a 0/10 to around 2/10. And when walking with crutches around 0/10 to around 3/10.
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Day Three
Yesterday I was a bit nauseous and actually threw up. The doctors said this was because of the general anesthesia from the surgery leaving my system. I also walked three times down the hallway and back on crutches, I'm guessing around 60-70m back and forth. I also accidentally clicked yesterday as well, one full click. It did not hurt or feel uncomfortable. In general I have very little pain. It was worst this morning before taking my morning dose of painkillers. The Doctor has also said that the pain is at its worse two to three days after surgery.
I seen people commenting this and that about what height I should go, and I will not engage in any discussions. I am not a doctor, you guys are not doctors so I'll let the professionals handle this. And so far it has been smooth sailing. If people get to negative or toxic here I will just delete this thread since my diary is meant to be something positive for me to share. If it gets negative, I will not continue.
On tuesday I will look at he X-rays with the doctor to measure the exact ratio. When it comes to body ratio I am not at all worried about this. When I sit next to friends who are around 177-178cm tall we have the same sitting height and also same tibia height. So adding 11cm to my femurs will improve my proportions dramatically.
There is a reason why the precise and stryde nail, which Dr. Paley himself co-designed, has a limit of 8cm. The new weightbearing synoste nail will have a limit of 7cm. It is because studies indicate that lengthening above 6-8cm lead to exponentially higher risks of medical problems down the road.
I agree neither of us are professionals or doctors. However, you should get a medical opinion from people other than Dr. Betz before you pursue that amount of length. You could email Dr. Paley for instance, I heard he usually replies. I understand that it might be more pleasing aesthetically and proportion wise in your case, but medically it is not recommended.
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Don't remember but isn't normal tibia to femur ratio around 0,84? This means if your femurs and tibia are the same length you can lengthen femurs quite a bit before moving outside of this ratio.
How was you lengthening? How quickly were you able to walk about without crutches? What levels of paint did you have after surgery and while lengthening? For me while laying in bed its been from a 0/10 to around 2/10. And when walking with crutches around 0/10 to around 3/10.
My tibias where 90% ratio to my femurs so way to long. That's why I lengthened that much.
pain levels after surgery where OK because of the opioid they gave me.
I was very disappointed with betz tho. Him not releasing my It band and also not even informing me on potential wide legs issue upfront caused me massive problems. I began walking approx. 7-8 months after surgery because I had to get my extremely tight ITB (which was not going back to normal on its own) released with another surgeon otherwise I would not be able to walk right now. Betz completely ignored my issues and even told me stop texting him because quote "he had other clients to answer to as well". If it wasn't for his unprofessional behavior I would have been able to walk maybe a month after I was done lengthing because my training was on point (so almost 5 months earlier than I did!). I talked about all this in detail in my interview with cyborg so feel free to watch it.
I don't regret LL it was the best decision of my life and my Dream but in hindsight I would not choose betz again. He was a major letdown and didn't care one bit about my wellbeing and I also heard the same from many of his other patients. If you really want to lengthen 10-11cm or even if it's just 7-8cm get a plan for getting your ITB released if it becomes necessary otherwise you will be fked and unable to walk normally like I was. Trust me. A lot of unforeseen issues can arise and betz unfortunately is a very careless surgeon. Don't wanna scare you just be aware... The worst time wasn't the lengthning itself for me but the months thereafter where I was unsure of when I'll be able to walk normally again. Betz did not care one bit and I had to get that fixed all by myself (Finding another surgeon, paying for another surgery etc.)
I hope your journey goes well man and you are being taken care of better than I was. Make smart decisions along the way and stay ahead as best as you can.
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Day 7
It's now been a week since surgery and things are improving every day. I checked out of the hospital today and moved into a large and luxurious flat provided by Dr Betz and his colleagues. There is something exhausting mentally about living in a hospital that makes you feel "sick". Most of the days in the hospital have been exactly the same, so not much to write about. Been doing physio twice a day, which has been good. The worst thing has been the food at the hospital in Freiburg. One warm meal a day, and the rest of the meals with dry and lifeless bread... Now I have a stocked fridge and can order meals from Lieverando (Just eat) that Dr Betz pays for.
Me and one of the doctors also went into town today so I could shop some more sweat pants. I walked around 1km on crutches. Was really nice to get outside and breathe some fresh air. But after that distance I was pretty exhausted.
Pain levels have mostly been very low, but I have experienced some local pain here and there for shorter periods of time though. Nothing much to complain about. I am looking forward to spend the next week in this lovely and spacious flat, it's so serene here compared to the hospital. My mental health is much improved after just an hour here.
I have had around six accidental clicks so far, and we should start clicking tomorrow or Sunday. Hope that goes well!
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Congrats on getting surgery! You already have the biggest step behind you. I had my surgery with Betz in October and will finish lengthening soon. Accidental clicks are normal - I had many during the first two weeks but it stops once the legs get stronger.
The food is definitely the worst part in that hospital - you can indicate your preference to the kitchen staff for breakfast and lunch but dinner is just bad. I ordered lieferando pretty much every evening. Good luck with clicking, I'm sure it will go well. Betz is great surgeon and you're in good hands!
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Day 8
The first night in the flat provided by Dr Betz and his colleagues was great. I had the best night of sleep since the surgery, and the peace and quiet here alongside the better food has improved the way I feel immensely. I have very little to no pain, and I am just much more relaxed. Apparently I am the first patient using this accommodation, so I feel very lucky indeed. I've actually had the mental strength to do some work, and that says a lot.
Tomorrow we start clicking, so I can't wait to start the actual lengthening procedure!
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Day 9
Today I did my first scheduled clicks, 6 on the left leg and 6 on the right leg. After understanding the technique is was fairly easy, and all click except the first on the right leg "hurt". Let me clarify, the movement to click stretches your inner thigh muscles - so when this muscles isn't stretched enough you'll feel the pain. So stretching this muscle for around 7-8 minutes resolved the issue. Total time with the stretching and clicks was 20 minutes. The plan is to do another 7-8 clicks later today.
Yesterday we started reducing my pain medication, and probably too much. Last night I had a little bit of pain and muscle aches, enough to disrupt my sleep. We have now changed the dosage, so sleeping should be without any discomforts.
Things in general are getting easier and easier for every that passes by, I just hope things stay like this in the future.
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延长11厘米，你真的疯了，你以后除了走路什么都做不了，你现在还有时间去改变，比如做5厘米
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Day 29
Haven't written anything here in a while because I've been so busy getting back to normal life with work and all. After two weeks in Freiburg I travelled back home, and have now been home for a little more than two weeks. The first day home was quite hard with a lot pain probably because the travel home was long and tiresome. After settling down home things have been much better and I've found a very good rutine for clicking. I do 15 clicks a day with seems to be a nice balance with stretching and over all comfort. I did to 20 clicks a day for a few days but I had more pain (growing pains) and clicking was also a bit harder. So 15 clicks seem to be a nice balance, and the plan is to do 15 clicks throughout the lengthening process. According to te initial distraction and the amount now lengthened I am at around 167cm now! I both feel and look taller, it is such an insane feeling - and I still have around 9cm to go! WOW!
Pain levels are different from day to day, some days are good and others are harder. But there is correlation between the amount of activity and pain, the more active I am the more paint I usually have the day after. So I am trying not to overdo it, but some days it's hard to stay calm. Also driving is pain when done for longer periods and after a few hours I do become very stiff.
Over all though, things are going very well and I hope keeping up with the daily stretching (3-5 times a day), being active (walking and ergometer) and going to physio keeps things balanced throughout the lengthening period.
Stand taller
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The surgery was in Freiburg, very interesting! Freiburg is the most beautiful city in Germany, in my opinion. It was also voted as the city with the highest quality of life in Germany this year. Great place to recover!
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Day 67
Yet another update, and it's been over a month since I last wrote here.
As before I've been busy and tired with my normal day to day life. Before surgery I would usually work 40-70 hours a week, and now I'm barely able to manage more than 5-6 hours. So that has been hard, pretty much not having the same energy levels are before.
I've now lengthened a little more than 5 cm and now stand at 170cm tall! It is such a strange, cool and special feeling being more than 170cm tall now, and knowing that even if I stopped lengthening tomorrow my new height is permanent. When I was 165cm tall I felt like a small human being or a small man, but I do not feel like small person anymore. Sure I am not the tallest, and not tall my any means. BUT I DO NOT FEEL SMALL anymore, which is such an insane feeling. I am also only 5 days from my half way point, which i really motivating.
Pain has varied a lot, and I feel like I've had pain just about everywhere. I've had quite a bit pain in my thighs while lifting up (removing weight) and also over my knees. I also have numbness on the inside of my right chin. A few weeks ago I actually experienced a burning sensation for about five minutes there, and it is the worst pain I've ever had in my life. I experienced this three days in a row and was advised to reduce clicking to 12 clicks a day instead of 15 clicks a day. This helped a lot and I've not experienced that level of pain after that. I am still numb and have some quick pulling pain from there, but nothing too bad.
The last week basically all of the pain I had in my femurs has disappeared. And I've gained more flexibility. Two days ago I also stopped taking Nobligan (Tramadol) some strong painkillers, and have had normal withdrawal symptoms after having used them for more than two months. The symptoms are a bit difficult, but with a strong will it's doable. The doctors would recommend reducing the dosage over time, but I just hard quit. I seem to be over the worst now and my form is much better.
Except for those three days of clicking 12 clicks a day I've clicked 15 clicks a day. from 3-4 cm clicking started to get harder and harder. And at around 4,5 cm it was really hard, but after 5 cm clicking is now very easy again. I've managed clicking fine since start, and I think it is psychological issue for people. Some people spend hours clicking, and yes the first week or two, before I understood how to properly click I could spend a few hours on a leg because I needed to relax my muscles and "find" the clicks. But after those first weeks I click both legs in around 5-10 min with resting and stretching.
At 5cm taller I do have wide legs and duck ass though, but having been working on this the past week with my physiotherapist, so hopefully with streething it won't get worse and maybe even better. Crossing my fingers.
Getting to that magical half way point this Saturday will be a real milestone, and instead of counting down to the halfway point I will count down to the last day of distraction.
My only other complaint is that I have a sore bum after sitting a lot during the day, So I can wait to be more mobile with a straight back so I can stand and walk more.
Stand Taller
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Well congratulations.
As someone who has been in your situation i strongly advise you to stop at 5 cm, especially if workout is an important part of your life. With 5cm you will probably still be able to do normal squats at the gym, if you go beyond 5cm you can forget that, not only can you forget doing squats at the gym but workout your lower body in general(properly).
Just to illustrate how serious i am, if i could go back in time to when i had reached 5cm i would have stopped. For your information i did 9cm and i'm miserable. Dont ruin your life like i did. I would rather go back to my original height than living like this to be completely honest.
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Thanks!
Never done a squat in my life and not planning on starting now, so not worried about that.
Why do you regret going 9cm? What issues do you have?
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Thanks!
Never done a squat in my life and not planning on starting now, so not worried about that.
Why do you regret going 9cm? What issues do you have?
There are two main problems. The first is my sitting height, i look completely ridiculous when i sit down. Before LL i had height dysphoria, not im worried that people will notice my very strange proportions instead.
The other one is that my agility is basically completely lost. I can run, but not properly. My agility is more similar to someone 50-60 years old than to someone 20 years old.
When you loose your agility you realize that its actually a bigger part of your masculinity than your height. If you go for 11cm as you are planning, the only thing you will get is height - at the expense of proportions and agility and i can safely say that its not wroth it.
If you truly want to reach around 175cm then i recommend to stop lengthening and later in life when you have the money you can lengthen your tibias by about 3cm.
The problem guys do when they do this surgery is that they aim for a magical number. I can already tell in your last post that you are also obsessed with numbers when you mentioned that you had reached 170cm, as if it was some kind of milestone. Being 168cm vs 170 is no different at all, the guy who stopped at 168 is just more healthy since he didn't overlengthen.
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I understand your issues.
My brother in law is 178cm tall and we have same sitting height. When we sit next to each other our knees are also at the same height meaning that my femur is where I am lacking length. I work in the auto industry and drive many different cars, and an issue I often encounter is that the seat cushions often are too long for me, even in mid-sized cars. This is yet another indication that I indeed have short femurs, and with 5cm longer femurs this issues is less of an issue. So for my profession longer femurs will actually make my work life better in that sense. Lastly I've tons dusins of photoshop mock-ups of my self with 12cm longer femurs and I look completely normal, and much better porportioned than I was at 165 cm or even at 170cm. My wingspan is around 175cm last I checked, so I am fine in that department too.
I do appreciate your two cents and will take into account your advice. No I am not obsessed with numbers, but setting a goal is in my opinion a part of this whole procedure. And reaching 170cm may not be a milestone for you, but for me it absolutely is - even if at the end of the day it is just a number. I want to reach 176cm, but If I have severe issues with IT-band or anything else I will stop earlier.
A few years ago Dr Betz brought on Dr Becker as a partner in the firm. Other than the initial consultation and a few visits after surgery, I have had very little interaction with Dr Betz. Dr Becker has been my main Doctor through this whole thing, and he has been excellent. He has also had close contact with my physiotherapist, so any issues I have with this procedure they have been communicating directly. I have written Dr. Becker a ton and asked all sorts of things, and gotten very good and explanatory answers.
Lastly, we are all different, and different bodies react differently to this procedure. There are tons of stories here where people lengthen 8-10cm without any issues and are almost as athletic as they were before the procedure. And yes there are similar stories like yourself as well. I do understand that workout and body fitness seems a big part of your identity and who you are. And loosing some or a lot of that for a few cm is not worth it, I totally understand that. But you have to remember that we all are different people with different bodies and are doing this for different reasons.
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I will come at this one from the opposite perspective. I really regret only doing 6 CM on my femurs. Within a few years after the surgery, my long femurs became my favorite part of my body. I think no matter how much you lengthen, you can have positive feelings about your proportions. Trust me, you will be the only one who notices, nobody else will even register it.
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There are two main problems. The first is my sitting height, i look completely ridiculous when i sit down. Before LL i had height dysphoria, not im worried that people will notice my very strange proportions instead.
The other one is that my agility is basically completely lost. I can run, but not properly. My agility is more similar to someone 50-60 years old than to someone 20 years old.
When you loose your agility you realize that its actually a bigger part of your masculinity than your height. If you go for 11cm as you are planning, the only thing you will get is height - at the expense of proportions and agility and i can safely say that its not wroth it.
If you truly want to reach around 175cm then i recommend to stop lengthening and later in life when you have the money you can lengthen your tibias by about 3cm.
The problem guys do when they do this surgery is that they aim for a magical number. I can already tell in your last post that you are also obsessed with numbers when you mentioned that you had reached 170cm, as if it was some kind of milestone. Being 168cm vs 170 is no different at all, the guy who stopped at 168 is just more healthy since he didn't overlengthen.
Could you maybe send a blurred picture of what you look like now? I'm in a similar camp (planning on lengthening more than usual) but obviously, if proportions gets too wacky I'd obviously reconsider.
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Proportions after lengthening 11 cm
Many of you have been asking and talking about proportions and this is something that will improve a lot after I reach 11 cm of lengthening. I've linked a mock-up of me that I did a long time before surgery with 12 cm longer femurs. I am the one with the blurred face, and my friend is around 180 cm tall. As you can see, our knees and shoulders are almost exactly the same height. If we are nitpicking you can see my torso is shorter, but that may also only be because since I have (I mean I had) short legs I would always buy shirts that where as short as possible so my legs wouldn't look even shorter. Going up one size in shirts may eliminate my "shorter looking torso" completely. Either way, people are different and have different proportions so I am not at all worried. I will look much more normal after reaching 11 cm than I did when I was 165 cm.
When I am sitting my seating height and the top of my knees are at the same height as my brother in law who is 178 cm tall.
Here's the mock-up:
https://ibb.co/kS1KwLN
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Tibia and femur length
I tried measuring my tibias and femurs now, and not sure I did it 100%. Does anybody have a guide on how to meassure.
Tibias are 37cm
Femurs are 45cm (measured from the middle of my scar on my hip - which where the nail went in. So maybe I should meassure a little less lenght here)
I've read that normal tibia to femur ratio ranges from 0,83 - 0,77. And now if my measurements are correct I am at 0,82. After reaching I should be at around 0,74 which is a little outside the normal range, but still fine.
But....
I am guessing I meassured my femur to long and in reality the end results will more like
Tibia 37cm
Femur 48cm
Ratio 0,77
Let me know how to measure properly!
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Looks pretty good. You can also the same analysis while sitting on a chair seen from the side. That would reveal both the joints: hip, knee
Hey, unrelated question :- do you know if Betz is training a junior surgeon as a successor? He is 72 or more and seems to have built a great setup, so I was wondering what lies in the next decade or two for Betz institute.
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Yeah, I am happy with the proportions.
He is at least training one successor, and that is Dr Becker (mid 40s) in Freiburg. I believe Dr Becker has been working with Dr.Betz for around three years. I think the plan is to move the clinic to Freiburg within a few years. Dr Becker has been my main doctor though this procedure and If am not mistaken my surgery was done by him with Dr Betz supervising.
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yes, even in my 50's i regretted losing my agility and simple ability so squat and lift (eg picking up a three year old without struggling)
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Hi Stand Taller
I take it you do not speak or read German. Before the surgery were you asked to sign paper work written in German to sign? How did you go about it if you did not understand what was written?
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Hi Stand taller,
do you know how many LL surgeries Dr. Axel Becker has already performed?
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Hi Stand Taller
I take it you do not speak or read German. Before the surgery were you asked to sign paper work written in German to sign? How did you go about it if you did not understand what was written?
I speak a little and can read a fair bit of German. When in hospital I basically communicated in German with most of the staff, even though most spoke English.
That being said, all the documents with Dr Betz where in English and he walked me through it all step by step. And If I had any questions he explain it in detail. I felt that the paper work was taken very serious and was gone through thorough.
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Hi Stand taller,
do you know how many LL surgeries Dr. Axel Becker has already performed?
Not sure how many he's done, but I think he told me that he had been under training with Dr Betz for the last three years.
BTW.. I will write an update very soon, just passed the 7cm mark and even though I still have 4cm to go I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!
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Day 93
Almost a month since I've written an update - and let's start with the bad.
In my last update I had just stopped taking Tramadol, and instead of having a plan with my doctor where I would take less and less over time - I just decided on my own to stop cold turkey. And I can sincerely say, do not stop taking Tramadol cold turkey! I had basically all the withdrawal symptoms you can have, and it was hard as fk! The worst was over after about two weeks, but those two weeks are some of the toughest two weeks of my life. Luckily I did not experience any pain, but my sleep went from pretty good to awful. The worst nights I would sleep 20 minutes at a time, throughout the whole night! Not only where the days long, but the nights where even longer.
At this time with all the withdrawal symptoms etc I was seriously considering stopping lengthening and calling it quits every day for almost two weeks. I am glad I stuck through though, because I am feeling much much better now! My sleeping isn't good, but is still much improved. I sleep around 1-1,5 hours at a time though the night, but i read that quitting Tramadol cold turkey messed with your sleep for several month after quitting it. So hopefully my sleep will slowly keep improving every night.
Pain has been almost non-existent, just some small pain here and there - not much to complain about. My duckass and wide-legs have improved some, but not enough according to Dr Becker. And also having hip swing in my gait, Dr Becker has to told me to reduced to 12 clicks per day, down from 15. He's also told me to focus more on stretching the hip flexors, and I feel like things have improved in just a few days. Hopefully Things will continue to improve.
I've now reached 7cm and I now stand at 172cm tall, and I feel tall around people who are at my old height now. I have two sisters who are a 166cm and 167cm tall, and there is a clear difference in our height - and knowing I was shorter than them that is such a weird and special feeling. And this is still wide duckass and wide-legs, so in reality I am not actually 172cm yet.
I also had a very funny experience with a female friend who is 169cm tall. I rang her bell, and when she opened the door she just looked up at me shocked, confused and stuttered "eeehh what?? ehhhh what??? ehhh hooww??" And I just replied "let me in and I'll explain". My new height was the first thing she noticed.
I've told most of my family and friends about my surgery, which has been a huge deal for moral support and my state of mind. Everybody has been supportive, even though some have been shocked and some have even said that they think it is outright cool that I've done this. The support has been immensive.
At around 6cm I took X-rays and it all looks tip top, with healthy callus formation.
My moral is up and down from day to day and to be honest I am really looking forward to the day I stop clicking and I can start actual rehabilitation. It's three months since my surgery and it feels like I've been doing this for a while now, and I am kind of sick of stretching and hour+ every single day and not being able to walk normal and just feeling exhausted going shopping for groceries.
Good news is that I am done clicking in 7,5 weeks and in the big picture, that really isn't that long. But for anybody considering going 11cm like me, it really is a loooooong distraction period of almost five months. And there is no way around that five month walking on crutches and not being mobile is a looooong time. So it does require you to be strong as fk mentally, because you will hit the wall like me. And it will require strength to push though that or those walls.
Even though I've had a relatively easy time lengthening and clicking has been a piece of cake (I do both legs in around 60-90 seconds without any pain) this is still by far the hardest thing I've ever done in my life! And I still have 7,5 week of lengthening and I hope I can walk relatively normal 1-3 months post clicking - so still a long time before I am "normal"
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Congrats on your gains so far!
Do you mind sharing your recent x-rays here?
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I speak a little and can read a fair bit of German. When in hospital I basically communicated in German with most of the staff, even though most spoke English.
That being said, all the documents with Dr Betz where in English and he walked me through it all step by step. And If I had any questions he explain it in detail. I felt that the paper work was taken very serious and was gone through thorough.
Hey Stand taller
thank you for the response. congrats on reaching 7cm. Thats a great gain. Opiods are very addictive, how much was your average dosage all these days before stopping? Are you still taking Xarelto and do you plan to take it till full amount of distraction?
I have some questions if you don't mind
1) I am a bit worried about signing patient consent forms which might allow them to use your photos for advertising and so on. I had thought that as a rule, all legal documents in Germany must be in German. You say it was in English which is great. Are there 2 sets of documents you must sign? One during patient registration before consultation where you might have to read where your photos and information get shared. One before surgery stating the risks involved and that you agree there is no liability on the doctors. Is that it?
2) I am quite confused about where Betz institute currently is, where people are getting their consultations, surgery and follow-up check ups. Their website lists St ingbert as the location for consultations and follow-ups and Kreikrankenhaus St. Ingbert as the surgery location. On google maps Betz institute is in Neunkirchen. Someone posted links to DrBecker's cosmetic surgery practice in Freiburg. Can you choose among multiple options?
3) I speak no German and am a bit concerned on how to travel around within Germany especially since Betz works out of smaller towns (not Berlin/Munich) without uber. If you find some time can you please elaborate on how you reached the place, traveled around (from airport to consultation, where did you stay 2 weeks in Freiburg, hotel to hospital, PT and so on).
Thank you Stand taller. Hope the next 4cm are easy.
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Hey Stand taller
thank you for the response. congrats on reaching 7cm. Thats a great gain. Opiods are very addictive, how much was your average dosage all these days before stopping? Are you still taking Xarelto and do you plan to take it till full amount of distraction?
I have some questions if you don't mind
1) I am a bit worried about signing patient consent forms which might allow them to use your photos for advertising and so on. I had thought that as a rule, all legal documents in Germany must be in German. You say it was in English which is great. Are there 2 sets of documents you must sign? One during patient registration before consultation where you might have to read where your photos and information get shared. One before surgery stating the risks involved and that you agree there is no liability on the doctors. Is that it?
2) I am quite confused about where Betz institute currently is, where people are getting their consultations, surgery and follow-up check ups. Their website lists St ingbert as the location for consultations and follow-ups and Kreikrankenhaus St. Ingbert as the surgery location. On google maps Betz institute is in Neunkirchen. Someone posted links to DrBecker's cosmetic surgery practice in Freiburg. Can you choose among multiple options?
3) I speak no German and am a bit concerned on how to travel around within Germany especially since Betz works out of smaller towns (not Berlin/Munich) without uber. If you find some time can you please elaborate on how you reached the place, traveled around (from airport to consultation, where did you stay 2 weeks in Freiburg, hotel to hospital, PT and so on).
Thank you Stand taller. Hope the next 4cm are easy.
Thanks a lot! 7cm really is a massive difference, and I also hope the next 4cm are fast and easy. I'll try answer you questions:
1) Germany has pretty strong privacy laws and even stronger culture, so I wouldn't worry about this. To be honest, I don't remember how many sets I signed since I am in my home town now in easter. Can check later next week. I do remember signing something stating that the surgery is not for medical reasons but for cosmetic reasons. Basically signing that I am healthy.
2) Their institute is in St. Ingbert, and surgery has also been at a privat hospital there. But Dr Betz told me that the hospital they usually used went bankrupt during Covid, so they are now using different hospitals. I had my surgery at Praxisklinik 2000 Orthopädie in Freiburg, and I was the second patient to stay here. Because I was in Freiburg most of my followup was with Dr Becker.
Dr Becker is Dr Betz predecessor and as I understood the plan is to move Betz Institute to Freiburg within a few years. Dr Becker has his clinic in Freiburg
3) Most people in Germany understand and speak some english, so getting by shouldn't be very hard. I flew to Frankfurt and Betz will arrange a shuttle if you want to your hotel in Freiburg. I stayed at a hotel in the city centre, and was picked up by Dr Becker the day of surgery. I spent the first week in the hospital and the second week in flat provided by Betz in the floor underneath Dr Beckers clinic. This was a massive 150 square meters luxury flat. And having Dr Becker close by was very comforting. I flew out of Zurich and Dr Becker arranged a shuttle to the airport. Both Dr Betz and Dr Becker where very helpful and will arrange everything.
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Day 116
I've now reached 8,3cm and stand at 173,5cm.... well that would be if I could stand straight. Due to duckass I am not able to stand straight. Clicking has been reduced to 10 clicks per day courtesy of Dr Becker and I have regained more function as a result, but my duckass only seems to be marginally improved. In the first time in what seems like months I can move around short distances in my flat without crutches. For most of the lengthening time I've only been able to move around with crutches due to stiffness, tightness and duckass.
After upping my stretching game to around 1,5 hours a day and doing fysio three times a week stiffness and tightness seem to be improving little by little each day, and even duckass seem to be progressing ever so slightly. A few days ago I was actually able to go shopping while pushing a shopping cart all by myself through the whole grocery store. This is something I've not been able to do in months, so I am optimistic about my form improving a little bit every day moving forward.
If I am able to speed up clicking to 15 a day next week I will hit my height goal on June 15th (in 37 days), but If I have to stay at 10 clicks a day throughout the remaining 2,7cm I will be done on June 30th (in 52 days). Either way, the end is getting close!
The past week I've been sleeping much better, so instead of waking up ever 1-1,5 hours, I now only wake up 2-3 times during an 8 hour sleep - which what I usually did before the surgery - so yeah. Sleep is back to normal!
My energy levels are also at its highest since the surgery, so I feel that I am slowly getting back to the old me - which is a good feeling.
It's been a long process and there is still 37 - 52 days to go - though I really hope it is the former. I can't wait till I'm done clicking so I can finally start to actually rehabilitate.
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betzinstitute fked up my legs, and I am going to file a Class-Action Lawsuit against them
I am currently gathering other patients who have severe problems with their surgery with Betz, please message me to discuss further and get our justice!!!
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@Stand taller how are you finding your proportions?
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My proportions are great, and have never been better! I've written about this more in detail earlier here.
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Day 158 - Lengthening done and I've reached 177cm!
Been a while since I've written here, but finally guys I'm done lengthening and I can now focus on recovering. First let's start with the positives, and that is I've surpassed my original goal of 11cm lengthening and reaching 176cm. I've actually lengthened 11,5cm and reached 177cm which insane! I can officially say that I am not short anymore, and average height in most western countries. Even in the tallest countries I'm just below average, which is more than good enough!
Tomorrow I will wake up and not ever have to do another click, wow! 158 days of lengthening has been an insane amount of time and at times it felt like forever. My life the last five months has basically been centered around lengthening. It has been a real test of will power and the self control.
Like so many others here the last cm was very hard, and around 14 days ago I actually decided to stop lengthening at 176cm. I had a few bad nights of sleep and some really bad pain in my knees and thighs. On top of that I was just feeling overall tired after being in this process for five months. I can not emphasize enough how long of a process this really is (and I'm far from done). But after talking to friends, family, my physiotherapist and Dr Becker I decided to go the last cm to reach 177cm. And I am happy that I've gotten the maximum out of the Betz Bone. Initially Dr Betz wanted me to only do 11cm, but would allow an extra 0,5cm if everything was looking good at the end. So I'm happy lengthening as much as possible, and will never feel any regret for not doing the maximum.
But, it's not all good because I still have quite pronounced duckass. After slowing down to 10 clicks a day and doing physio three times a week my duckass was slowly improving. But around a month ago I felt I just wanted to reach my goal as fast as possible so I could start rehabilitating as fast as possible. I've felt so sick at tired if this process so many times during distraction that at some point I just wanted to get on with it and end it sooner than later. I then decided to do 15 clicks a day and up my stretching from around an hour a day to around 2,5 hours a day. What this did was just keep my duck ass in check. This does mean that I am still dependent on crutches to walk and move about.
And this also means that I am not standing straight and I don't actually stand at 177cm tall. So I still don't know how it feels to be this height. I'm guessing I am around 170-171cm tall now. But on physio last Friday we where able to flatten my duckass quite a bit and I must have gained around 2-3 cm that day. But because I clicked for few more days that gain was lost. So I am hoping now that I am done clicking I can make progress quickly. It may take two weeks for my duckass to resolve, but more likely 4-6 weeks, or it could even take 8 weeks. Time will tell. But It feels so good to know that I can actually start to make some progress with my physio and stretching and not just keeping it in check.
Dr Becker reckons it will take 4 weeks to resolve my duckass ass and another 4 weeks before I can walk quite normally without crushes, so crossing my fingers.
Either way I'm happy I did the maximum lengthening and will keep you guys updated on how recovery goes!
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Congrats on getting nearly 12cm! Wow, what an effort ;D
When did you start slowing down to only 10 clicks a day?
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Congratulations. 177cm is tall.
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You story is very interesting, I was also thinking about to do my surgery with the dr. Betz, only I am a little bit scared about the method. One question: what about if one leg is longer than the other leg ? Can the system make also shortening? For example if you have bad bone healing or to much difference between the legs?
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No, you cant revert the distraction with the betz bone. This is only possible with precice.
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Day 185 (Day 27 Post clicking)
Time for another update guys, and things are improving - but slowly. I still have duck ass (see attached photo), and I measured it to be 43,3 degrees. Normal duck ass is around 6-7 degrees, so this means I am 36,3 - 37,3 degrees away from being normal. If I am able to correct this with around 9 degrees a week, I will have gotten rid of my duck ass in four weeks. Is this realistic? Well, not easy to say yet. But I can say that I am stretching in total one and half hours a day, and around 40-45 minutes of this has the past few days been dedicated to working on duck ass. I also work on this with my physiotherapist three times a week. I am in other words putting a lot of work into it, but I also feel that with some progress now. It is easier for my body to handle even more work correcting my duck ass. Just a few weeks ago, most of the stretching with duck ass was really straining my lower back. But now with less duck ass, more of the work actually goes towards stretching the correct areas. 43,3 degrees of duck ass might seem bad, and it's not good - but just a two - three weeks ago I was at around 60-65 degrees. So it is certainly an improvement.
The hardest thing about having this much duck ass is walking, or the ability not to walk without crutches. Again, as my duck ass has improved I am able to walk a little more every day. I can now move a few steps around in my kitchen. Just a week ago, this was not possbile. I am therefore hoping I will be rid of duck ass and be able to walk without crutches in around 4-5 weeks. This means I would be able to walk two months post clicking. I still feel this may be a little too optimistic, but again - mot of my improvement has been in the last week or two. The first week or two I did not see much improvement in mobility - but I did see pain in knees etc getting less every day and also flexibility improving.
I took my second check-up X-rays a week ago, and according to Dr Becker and Dr Betz they are excellent. I tried measuring the gap with the tool on the website where the doctor uploaded them. But Dr Becker told me not to pay too much attention to the measurements, because the clicking list should be the most accurate. Buuuuuut... if there is any accuracy I've actually gained 0,4cm more than my calculations. We will have to see what my final height is when I can stand straight though.
I have now been on crutches for more than six months, and this process has taken a long time. Especially considering the fact that I do not stand at my proper height due to my duck ass is a real buzzkill. So if you are considering doing 10cm + just know that it may take longer than anticipated to recover. But the good news is that things are improving every day, but at slow rate.
I'll keep you guys posted on the progress!
https://freeimage.host/i/wepxst
https://freeimage.host/i/wepYml
https://freeimage.host/i/wk9FNR
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Amazing, 11.5cm with one surgery! Do you have strong visible scars?
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Not sure if I missed it, but how old are you?
Good luck with the recovery! What cm do you think you started experiencing severe duckass?
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Not sure if I missed it, but how old are you?
Good luck with the recovery! What cm do you think you started experiencing severe duckass?
I'm in my mid 30's (you'll find my stats in my signature)
I took a look back at some photos I took, and here I am at around 171cm. In this photo I basically have no duck ass.
https://freeimage.host/i/wvSutf
This photo is at around 173,5cm and I have a little more duck ass, but still not very visible.
https://freeimage.host/i/wvSMtj
So I think after I reached this length my duck ass got progressive worse. If I slowed down the click-rate I probably would have been able to keep it to a minimum. But that also means I would have prolonged the lengthening process more. But I'm guessing my duck ass probably would have gotten worse either way.
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Do you have photos of you at the end? I am curious on the impact on proportions.
Wish you a quick and painless consolidatiom and a swift return to normal life
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Do you have photos of you at the end? I am curious on the impact on proportions.
Wish you a quick and painless consolidatiom and a swift return to normal life
The first photo in my last update (Day 185) is how I look now. Since I have duck ass it is hard too see proportions, but when I can stand straight I will provide photos and video.
But as I've said before, my proportions are normal now and much better than before CLL. My sitting height is similar to friends who are around 178-80cm tall, and now my femurs and tibia are almost identical in length to my brother in law who is 178cm tall.
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I'm in my mid 30's (you'll find my stats in my signature)
I took a look back at some photos I took, and here I am at around 171cm. In this photo I basically have no duck ass.
https://freeimage.host/i/wvSutf
This photo is at around 173,5cm and I have a little more duck ass, but still not very visible.
https://freeimage.host/i/wvSMtj
So I think after I reached this length my duck ass got progressive worse. If I slowed down the click-rate I probably would have been able to keep it to a minimum. But that also means I would have prolonged the lengthening process more. But I'm guessing my duck ass probably would have gotten worse either way.
Thanks for the response!
Interesting, so it didn't really take until over 8cms before your duckass started becoming pronounced.
Did you tell your family that you underwent LL?
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Thanks for the response!
Interesting, so it didn't really take until over 8cms before your duckass started becoming pronounced.
Did you tell your family that you underwent LL?
That is correct, no noticeable duck ass before around 8 - 8,5cm, but I did have wide legs quite early. Maybe after 2-3cm. I did stretching exercises about an hour every day at this point, and went to physio two times a week.
I told my close friends and close family around 8-10 months before my surgery, and more friends and family right before and after surgery. I would highly recommend this, because you will need help and moral support.
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I just sent you a message, please have a check. Thank you in advance
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That is correct, no noticeable duck ass before around 8 - 8,5cm, but I did have wide legs quite early. Maybe after 2-3cm. I did stretching exercises about an hour every day at this point, and went to physio two times a week.
I told my close friends and close family around 8-10 months before my surgery, and more friends and family right before and after surgery. I would highly recommend this, because you will need help and moral support.
What was your preparation like before the surgery? Were you very flexible?
How did your family/friends react?
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Out of curiosity. Whats is your sitting height?
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What was your preparation like before the surgery? Were you very flexible?
How did your family/friends react?
I did around 30-40 minutes of stretching every day two months prior to surgery. I had okay flexibility, but I wish I had focused more on my hip flexors - because I probably wouldn't have had this much duck ass.
My family and friends were really supportive.
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Out of curiosity. Whats is your sitting height?
I haven't measured, but in the image below (me to the left) I have the same sitting height (maybe even half cm more) than my friend who is 178cm tall.
https://freeimage.host/i/wrlAgf
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I haven't measured, but in the image below (me to the left) I have the same sitting height (maybe even half cm more) than my friend who is 178cm tall.
https://freeimage.host/i/wrlAgf
Congrats on everything. My frame and height is similar to yours so it's inspiring to see you achieve this. Would love to see a side by side comparison once you've resolved your duckass and an insight to how it feels once you're officially at 1.77 height.
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Day 199 (Day 41 Post clicking)
Hey guys!
Here with another update, but before that I want to correct the angle of duck ass measured in my last duck ass angle update. In that post I measured the angle of duck ass to be 43,3 degrees. But after taking photos almost every day the last 16 days I've gotten more precise at measuring the angle, meaning the actual angle in that photo was actually 46,9 degrees. I've also measured the angle from photos the days before and after, and they are all around that same angle. The angle does change a litte from day to day, and not all days are progress.
After upping my stretching game at home and doing different stretching exercises with my physiotherapist, I've been able to improve! The angle of my duck ass is now for the first time since reaching my height below 30 degrees, and the actual angle is 29,8 degrees. An improvement of 17,1 degrees in 16 days! (see photo below)
https://freeimage.host/i/SvxpWJ
If I continue improving at this rate I will have a normal anterior pelvis tilt of around 4-7 degrees in around 23 - 26 days. For me this is great news and for a long time I felt that it would take many months for me to stand straight and potentially walk. As my duck ass has improve so has my mobility. I am able to walk more and more at home without crutches, though my gait is nothing to write home about. At least I am able to move around, and this also seems to be improving little by little every day.
In the past six weeks since I reached my height I've had 12 accidental clicks on my left leg and none in my right leg. But this also seems to be over since my bone are now consolidated so much that accidental clicks should no longer be possible. Lastly I stopped all pain medication around a week ago, I was using paracetamol three times a day up until a few weeks ago. I reduced the dosages until I stopped all together. Though I do occasionally have some nerve pain here and there, I have not pain from the bones at all.
With the improved duck ass I am also standing a little taller every day, still not at my full height I am getting closer. I hung out with a friend of mine yesterday who is 180cm tall, and I have never felt this close in height to him ever. It was such an interesting feel having been almost a head shorter than him, I now felt I was almost eye level.
Lastly I'll leave you guys with a photo of me and my physiotherapist, she is 172cm and you can see how much taller I am than her now.
https://freeimage.host/i/SvIOu9
I'm gonna keep on pushing and will keep you guys updated on the progress!
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Hello,
Congratulations on your new height! Really inspiring.
We will continue to follow your updates, your proportions look really good. Would love to see a before and after picture if you can.
Please keep in touch.
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Day 226 (Day 68 Post clicking)
Almost a month since I've written an update, so here it goes.
First let's start with the bad, and that is I still have duck ass and I am still very much on crutches. My old method for measuring anterior pelvic tilt (duck ass) has shown to be more and more difficult to measure the more I correct it. But from what I am able to measure my anterior pelvic tilt seems to be around 20-21 degrees. So an improvement of around 9-10 degrees since last update, that is still progress.
Here is photo: https://freeimage.host/i/4uHdJV
My gait and especially the strength in my legs are improving on a daily basis, but outside the house I am still 100% reliant on crutches. At home though I've tried to move around more and more without crutches and am able to move shorter distances inside without crutches. My gait is still not good, but getting better every day without the crutches. After recommendation from Dr Becker I will start walking with just one crutch moving forward. I hope this will speed up my progress.
Now for some good news and that is my muscles seems to be softening up and now letting go while stretching. Since my surgery my muscles have been stiff, but they have also seemed to be very limited in their elasticity. While stretching it seemed like I was hitting a wall, especially my hip flexors. Almost to the point I felt my duck ass was caused by a physical barrier rather than a muscular one. But last week felt like a milestone, because where I earlier hit this wall while stretching i don' anymore. Now I hit more of a much softer resistance, but holding the stretch for around ten seconds the muscles just seem to let go and I can just easily push though. This is a huge step forward, and I hope the correction of my anterior pelvic tilt can now move more speedily forward.
Other than this I basically have no muscular pain, and have not had any nerve pain in several weeks.
Because my duck ass has improved I also stand taller, here is phot of me and my friend I wrote about in the last post. He is 180cm tall, and now I stand almost as tall as him. Imo it's hard to see much of a difference, I am on the left.
Here is a photo: https://freeimage.host/i/4u2T5Q
Lastly I'll live your with this. I was at an event last weekend, and I was mostly sitting because I am on crutches. But when I did walk around I was taller than around half the menn there, and almost all the women. And of course being 177cm tall I am just a cm or two below the average male in my country, so this does put me at taller than around 50% of all males (or just right below 50% to be precise). So all of this does make sense, but for me to go from never being taller than any males and below the average height of females where I live to being taller than half the men and almost all women just feels so strange, wonderful and awesome. This feeling is so hard to explain, and I feel my height dysphoria is almost 100% cured, and I am sure once I can walk and stand straight it will go away completely.
It's been a long and tiresome journey, and I still have a long way to go. But I feel better every day now, and that is something I can appreciate.
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Day 226 (Day 68 Post clicking)
Amazing journey and diary! Maybe it's time for another update? :)
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I'll do an update soon!
Amazing journey and diary! Maybe it's time for another update? :)
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I did around 30-40 minutes of stretching every day two months prior to surgery. I had okay flexibility, but I wish I had focused more on my hip flexors - because I probably wouldn't have had this much duck ass.
My family and friends were really supportive.
how would you rate your flexibility? like what can you do and what you can't do? Just want to see where I'm at too.
also going beyond 8cm on the femur? How do you feel about your flexibility? Did you just keep going until you were too tight and you finally stopped at 11.5cm?
and what if you couldn't have did beyond 8cm? Would you have done your tibas to get your desired height?
going beyond 8cm was the reason you chose betz bone over precice?
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Day 226 (Day 68 Post clicking)
Almost a month since I've written an update, so here it goes.
First let's start with the bad, and that is I still have duck ass and I am still very much on crutches. My old method for measuring anterior pelvic tilt (duck ass) has shown to be more and more difficult to measure the more I correct it. But from what I am able to measure my anterior pelvic tilt seems to be around 20-21 degrees. So an improvement of around 9-10 degrees since last update, that is still progress.
Here is photo: https://freeimage.host/i/4uHdJV
My gait and especially the strength in my legs are improving on a daily basis, but outside the house I am still 100% reliant on crutches. At home though I've tried to move around more and more without crutches and am able to move shorter distances inside without crutches. My gait is still not good, but getting better every day without the crutches. After recommendation from Dr Becker I will start walking with just one crutch moving forward. I hope this will speed up my progress.
Now for some good news and that is my muscles seems to be softening up and now letting go while stretching. Since my surgery my muscles have been stiff, but they have also seemed to be very limited in their elasticity. While stretching it seemed like I was hitting a wall, especially my hip flexors. Almost to the point I felt my duck ass was caused by a physical barrier rather than a muscular one. But last week felt like a milestone, because where I earlier hit this wall while stretching i don' anymore. Now I hit more of a much softer resistance, but holding the stretch for around ten seconds the muscles just seem to let go and I can just easily push though. This is a huge step forward, and I hope the correction of my anterior pelvic tilt can now move more speedily forward.
Other than this I basically have no muscular pain, and have not had any nerve pain in several weeks.
Because my duck ass has improved I also stand taller, here is phot of me and my friend I wrote about in the last post. He is 180cm tall, and now I stand almost as tall as him. Imo it's hard to see much of a difference, I am on the left.
Here is a photo: https://freeimage.host/i/4u2T5Q
Lastly I'll live your with this. I was at an event last weekend, and I was mostly sitting because I am on crutches. But when I did walk around I was taller than around half the menn there, and almost all the women. And of course being 177cm tall I am just a cm or two below the average male in my country, so this does put me at taller than around 50% of all males (or just right below 50% to be precise). So all of this does make sense, but for me to go from never being taller than any males and below the average height of females where I live to being taller than half the men and almost all women just feels so strange, wonderful and awesome. This feeling is so hard to explain, and I feel my height dysphoria is almost 100% cured, and I am sure once I can walk and stand straight it will go away completely.
It's been a long and tiresome journey, and I still have a long way to go. But I feel better every day now, and that is something I can appreciate.
Great post!
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Day 307 (Day 149 Post clicking)
Almost three months since I've written an update, but the next few updates will be more frequent!
So let's start with the "not so" good, I still have duck ass - but I am getting closer and closer to resolving it every day! At this point my duck ass is basically only visible for me under the mirror as seen in the photo below. With clothes it is almost invisible.
https://freeimage.host/i/H9DlVpf
Now for the good! My duck ass has been improving a lot lately, with great progress almost daily. So I genuinely think it will be 100% resolved in a month or two - I am feeling much more optimistic lately about it. In the past week or so I have managed to reduce it so much that there no longer is strain on my lower back and I can walk and stand for much longer periods.
Two and half months ago I stopped using crutches at home in the day time. Then after three or four weeks a stopped using them at night as well. Then I was able to walk from my car to my apartment (around 60 meters at a slight downward incline) without them, and after a few more weeks I could walk to my car without them (slight uphill). Then I started challenging myself the two flight of stairs to my apartment without crutches, and then eventually walking down the two flights without holding the rail.
Around two weeks ago I felt confident walking shorter distances outside without the crutches, and about a week ago I only used one crutch going outside when going to the mall for a few hours. But this week I have stopped using them altogether, and the past few days I haven't used them once. The issue up until recently was my lower back getting very tired while walking because of my duck ass. The past few days I have been able to stand so much upright that I don't have that stress on my lower back anymore and I now instead feel tired in my legs.
My physiotherapist says that I will see rapid progress now that I have stopped using the crutches all together. I still have some stiffness and my left hip is much more still than my right, so I do walk with a slight limp (I'll post a video soon). But again, just from yesterday to today I have seen improvement in my walk. If I keep improving at this rate, I will be walking normally in around a month or two.
My goal for normal walking is of course January 15, which would be exactly a year after I got this surgery. That would mean it took me 7 months to walk normally after finishing clicking, but again I did to an extreme lengthening at 11,5cm! For the past 4-5 months I have been positive, but have also been in kind of a zombie state where I just wanted to fast forward being recovered. Finally I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And I am now done with the crutches which is a great milestone.
For anybody out there in the lengthening or recovery process, just remember this is a marathon and not a sprint. How ever much pain you may be in or how far recovery might seem - the pain will go away and you will recover. It will just take time, and the longer you lengthen, the longer the recovery.
Days after my last update I genuinely thought I would never walk again, but here I am two and half months later and I am walking and getting better every day.
Dr Becker told me something worth repeating. "Great, one year for 11,5cm - amazing what you body can handle. Imagine a child during growth phase would nee about double the time". When I step back and think about it, he is 100% correct, it is amazing if I can walk normally after only one year for growing 11,5cm!
Stay positive and keep pushing!
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Great to hear your duck ass is subsiding. I noticed that you were using crutches a lot longer than most people with weightbearing nails after surgery - was this due to how much you lengthened and the duck ass?
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Same from me, good to hear you're getting better and better.
Reading your diary has been so useful to somewhat foresee what's coming up at various stages of the lengthening (and soon consolidation).
11.5cm is crazy (in a good sense I mean) and being at almost 7cm myself , I have a profound respect for the effort that you must have put in.
Please keep updating us whenever you can. And thank you!!!
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Great to hear your duck ass is subsiding. I noticed that you were using crutches a lot longer than most people with weightbearing nails after surgery - was this due to how much you lengthened and the duck ass?
Yeah it feels great that is finally is, I have had duck ass for a long time now! Yes the reason I was walking with crutches for such a long time was because of duck ass. Around the time I was done lengthening my duck ass was really extreme, and I had no chance of walking. I also think the fact that I did develop bad duck ass meant I didn't walk as much as others without crutches and my muscle grew weaker, and also my extreme length made all of it worse.
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Same from me, good to hear you're getting better and better.
Reading your diary has been so useful to somewhat foresee what's coming up at various stages of the lengthening (and soon consolidation).
11.5cm is crazy (in a good sense I mean) and being at almost 7cm myself , I have a profound respect for the effort that you must have put in.
Please keep updating us whenever you can. And thank you!!!
Thanks! I read a lot of diaries before lengthening and did not foresee me developing such bad duck ass myself. I read a lot about wide legs and IT-Band release, but stories about duck ass weren't massively widespread. And then there aren't many here (if any?) that have done as much length as me? So I hope this can prepare people for doing extreme length. In retrospect I would have focused on stretching my hips much more and flexibility around that so I maybe could mitigate duck ass altogether. I focused a lot on wide legs and did develop this at around 2-3 cm, but with focused work I got rid of this at around 5-6 cm. But I then developed duck ass at around 7-8cm and it got worse till the day I stopped lengthening. I have had to work so hard for so many months to get to where I am now. Getting rid of duck ass has by far been the worst and hardest thing about this whole surgery!
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Congratulation StandTaller! I have been going through the same journey like you but with lengthening less than 1 cm than you (10,75 cm only).
End of next week, it will be exactly three months post-clicking for me (I stopped 31th August) and I am almost fully recovered and can do almost every daily routines like before. I have passed the crutches three weeks ago and I have noticed since this time my gluteus got strong very much and this has improved my gait further. I need to concentrate and walk slowly to avoid swinging but I am sure this is also only a question of time.
You are also a really good example that large lengthening amounts are realistic, unlike do doctors other than Betz/Becker say (at least with a weight-bearing nail). It is not gonna be easy and along a lot of side effects like duck ass, wide legs, lower back pain etc. but it is manageable. I don't know how it is in your case but the real good thing of improving your duck ass is that you will gonna come closer to your final end. When I stopped lengthening I was about 172 cm and now I am almost 174 cm (173,8 to be precise :)).
So be exited where you will end up.
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Congrats on the progress, amazing to hear! :)
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Congratulation StandTaller! I have been going through the same journey like you but with lengthening less than 1 cm than you (10,75 cm only).
End of next week, it will be exactly three months post-clicking for me (I stopped 31th August) and I am almost fully recovered and can do almost every daily routines like before. I have passed the crutches three weeks ago and I have noticed since this time my gluteus got strong very much and this has improved my gait further. I need to concentrate and walk slowly to avoid swinging but I am sure this is also only a question of time.
You are also a really good example that large lengthening amounts are realistic, unlike do doctors other than Betz/Becker say (at least with a weight-bearing nail). It is not gonna be easy and along a lot of side effects like duck ass, wide legs, lower back pain etc. but it is manageable. I don't know how it is in your case but the real good thing of improving your duck ass is that you will gonna come closer to your final end. When I stopped lengthening I was about 172 cm and now I am almost 174 cm (173,8 to be precise :)).
So be exited where you will end up.
Congrats to yourself Taller90! Wow, you've done almost the same length I me! Do I remember correctly that you also had duck ass? Do you still have it? How severe is it if so? How has your progress with strength and stamina been after you stopped using the crutches? I still feel like I am a walking in a pool of water, so I do need strength to walk and that does make me quicker tired and limits how far I can walk.
How are you experiencing your new height? Even though I am also probably missing 1-2 cm my life has already changed, I don't feel small anymore. Hung out with a friend today who is 180cm, and I feel basically the same height as him. But it is still such strange and awesome sensation feeling the same height as him and being able to look him straight into his eyes.
Here is a photo of me earlier this week with my physiotherapist who is 180cm tall!
https://freeimage.host/i/HHF9EWg
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Congrats to yourself Taller90! Wow, you've done almost the same length I me! Do I remember correctly that you also had duck ass? Do you still have it? How severe is it if so? How has your progress with strength and stamina been after you stopped using the crutches? I still feel like I am a walking in a pool of water, so I do need strength to walk and that does make me quicker tired and limits how far I can walk.
How are you experiencing your new height? Even though I am also probably missing 1-2 cm my life has already changed, I don't feel small anymore. Hung out with a friend today who is 180cm, and I feel basically the same height as him. But it is still such strange and awesome sensation feeling the same height as him and being able to look him straight into his eyes.
Here is a photo of me earlier this week with my physiotherapist who is 180cm tall!
https://freeimage.host/i/HHF9EWg
Wow you look incredible man. Your tibiae are longer than those of your PT, your legs look so much better, how is this possible with that amount of lengthening :O.
Do you know if you had very long lower legs for your height and proportions before LL? Do you know your femur/tibia ratio?
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Congrats to yourself Taller90! Wow, you've done almost the same length I me! Do I remember correctly that you also had duck ass? Do you still have it? How severe is it if so? How has your progress with strength and stamina been after you stopped using the crutches? I still feel like I am a walking in a pool of water, so I do need strength to walk and that does make me quicker tired and limits how far I can walk.
How are you experiencing your new height? Even though I am also probably missing 1-2 cm my life has already changed, I don't feel small anymore. Hung out with a friend today who is 180cm, and I feel basically the same height as him. But it is still such strange and awesome sensation feeling the same height as him and being able to look him straight into his eyes.
Here is a photo of me earlier this week with my physiotherapist who is 180cm tall!
https://freeimage.host/i/HHF9EWg
Thanks Stand Taller! Indeed, I had a bad duck ass, suffering from it since 3-4 cm. It was very hard to walk longer distances due to the pain in the lower back. However after clicking it got very much better in a two step approach. The first step was during the first 10 days after clicking and after that it got better but in smaller steps only. The second big step came 5-10 days ago (2,5 months post clicking) since when I am missing any pain in the lower back, so that I can walk very easy also for long distances without crutches :)
Your feelings regarding strength and stamina are normal. I am now almost a month without crutches and I was limited as well at the beginning. I think it took me 2 weeks before I tried to do upstairs without crutches and a couple of days later I lost any lower back pain at all. This was 5-10 days ago, so that I am now able to walk almost as much as I want ;D Again it is till not perfect but I am progressing every day and you will do it as well as long as you practice enough ;). I assume your feeling comes from a poor gluteus (which is normal afters this surgery...) but this will get stronger with every meter you are walking without crutches. My Physio told me that a strong gluteus (and strong stomach muscles (Sixpack)) help you to reduce your duck ass as well as they can pull the hip back to their normal position. Try to get them stronger, maybe it helps.
Please don't get me wrong but honestly, I had not really a height neurosis, feeling desperate to be "smaller" than others or so. Of course I was it but I think I have been compensating it to a large extend with my self-confidence. I have done it in the first instance to get the most out of my body and life etc. However, I must agree that the new height is a great feeling!!! The most people here are about 175-180cm and I have now the feeling to be on the same eye-level as well. This is an incredible feeling - strange, indeed, but very cool 8)
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Wow you look incredible man. Your tibiae are longer than those of your PT, your legs look so much better, how is this possible with that amount of lengthening :O.
Do you know if you had very long lower legs for your height and proportions before LL? Do you know your femur/tibia ratio?
Wow! I didn't even notice that, but you are right! My torso may seem shorter than my PT though, but in reality I think they are pretty much the same. I always used small or even XS in clothes before, but when I put on those same clothes they seem to short. I think I wore those sizes because I didn't want longer clothes than necessary because of my short legs. But now with longer legs I think it would look more normal and natural for me to wear medium. So if I wore a medium sweater I think our torsos would look pretty much the same.
I don't have any exact measurements, but I did have very short femurs before. An example of this is while sitting next to a friend who is 178cm, out sitting height would be the same, and our knee height would be the same. This means that where I was lacking in length really was in my femurs. This is also why I could lengthen them as much as 11,5cm without my proportions being strange. And actually as you can see in the photo I have much better proportions now than before.
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Thanks Stand Taller! Indeed, I had a bad duck ass, suffering from it since 3-4 cm. It was very hard to walk longer distances due to the pain in the lower back. However after clicking it got very much better in a two step approach. The first step was during the first 10 days after clicking and after that it got better but in smaller steps only. The second big step came 5-10 days ago (2,5 months post clicking) since when I am missing any pain in the lower back, so that I can walk very easy also for long distances without crutches :)
Your feelings regarding strength and stamina are normal. I am now almost a month without crutches and I was limited as well at the beginning. I think it took me 2 weeks before I tried to do upstairs without crutches and a couple of days later I lost any lower back pain at all. This was 5-10 days ago, so that I am now able to walk almost as much as I want ;D Again it is till not perfect but I am progressing every day and you will do it as well as long as you practice enough ;). I assume your feeling comes from a poor gluteus (which is normal afters this surgery...) but this will get stronger with every meter you are walking without crutches. My Physio told me that a strong gluteus (and strong stomach muscles (Sixpack)) help you to reduce your duck ass as well as they can pull the hip back to their normal position. Try to get them stronger, maybe it helps.
Please don't get me wrong but honestly, I had not really a height neurosis, feeling desperate to be "smaller" than others or so. Of course I was it but I think I have been compensating it to a large extend with my self-confidence. I have done it in the first instance to get the most out of my body and life etc. However, I must agree that the new height is a great feeling!!! The most people here are about 175-180cm and I have now the feeling to be on the same eye-level as well. This is an incredible feeling - strange, indeed, but very cool 8)
I also feel now that I don't have much or any pain in my lower back while walking, so I can now do normal shopping and walking around without lower back pain. I think this will also just improve more and more as time goes by.
Yeah, my PT has also told me that strong glutes and belly muscles will help against duck ass. So I do exercises daily. I live two flights of stairs up, so actually was able to walk up stairs without crutches a while back, and then down (I found walking down harder than walking up) shortly after that.
I totally understand what you mean, because I honestly didn't feel I had much or any height neurosis - or even any complex about my height. Honestly I feel I have tried to take as much of a logical and reasonable approach towards this whole thing. I feel I am a very confident and well spoken person, I dress nicely and I look reasonable handsome. I have had several long term relationships with very pretty women, all of them taller than me. My last girlfriend was 173cm tall, and It really never bothered me or her. I am also quite successful (as most here who can afford these surgeries) and have a sizable social media following.
So from a "stats" perspective I feel I have many boxes ticked off. I also have an enormous work capacity and I have worked my ass off for years to get here! For the most part I am happy with myself and my life. But with being said, I do know about the countless studies that show what a disadvantage being a short man is. I was 165cm tall in a nordic country, and that is very short. Studies show that short men will make less for the same amount of work, short men will have a harder time being promoted, shorter men earn less respect, shorter men are taken less seriously and woman find shorter men less attractive.
For me it was simple and logical. Knowing what I know, why would I want to live the rest of my life at a disadvantage? Knowing what I know, why would I want to work harder and get less success, less respect and less payment for the same amount of work as my piers? Knowing what i know, why would I not want to level the playing field if possbile. So that is pretty much the biggest reason I did what I did, so I could play on the same level as the rest of society. I no longer have a disadvantage in the work place, I no longer have a disadvantage at a social gathering and I no longer have a disadvantage with women.
There is a famous study that show women will reject men 85% of the time if you are 165cm tall. The same study shows the rejection rate is only 15% when you are 178cm tall. For my whole adult life I have gotten countless of compliments from women about my looks, heck I've had drop dead gorgeous women come up to me and say things like "you're hot" or "I am gonna marry you". I am not saying this to brag or tut my own horn, but to be real and honest. Almost none of those encounters with women even got me a date. For a long time this really fked with my head. How can I keep hearing these nice words from women so many times, but at the same time not getting much success? How can drop dead gorgeous women slide into my DMs, ask me out and when they meet me things change up completely? For years I could not make any sense of any of this.....
... until I one day became self-conscious about my height, then it all made sense. It doesn't matter how good looking you are if you are short, well to most women. I have a had success with women, don't get me wrong. But the amount of women I had to meet to so I could meet that one girl who didn't care about height was always very hard work. Again, I not trying to brag - and if I am coming across that way I do apologize. I understand I was, or am lucky. Short and good looking is not as bad as short and average, or even short and below average. But I do genuinely believe that if you are average looking and average height you will have good success with women - more so than short and good looking.
At the end of the day, there are many reasons for me doing this. But in general it has been to make life easier in as many ways as possible.
I'll end on a different note, to put what I am saying into a different perspective. A few years back I looked at buying a Range Rover, the big one. Loved the car, and really wanted one. But there was one issues, an issues I encountered many times in large cars. And that was the seat cushion being to long for my short femurs, and I could not if my life depended on it sit comfortably because my femurs where too short. In other words I was literally too short for a Range Rover. When the new one came to dealers this summer, I knew I was gonna love it! But the big questions was, would I now fit better? And yes, the answer is YES! I have no problems and my femurs are now more than long enough for the long cushion of the new Range Rover. It may sound like a small and trivial thing, but for me it is another huge improvement in life quality.
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I also feel now that I don't have much or any pain in my lower back while walking, so I can now do normal shopping and walking around without lower back pain. I think this will also just improve more and more as time goes by.
Yeah, my PT has also told me that strong glutes and belly muscles will help against duck ass. So I do exercises daily. I live two flights of stairs up, so actually was able to walk up stairs without crutches a while back, and then down (I found walking down harder than walking up) shortly after that.
I totally understand what you mean, because I honestly didn't feel I had much or any height neurosis - or even any complex about my height. Honestly I feel I have tried to take as much of a logical and reasonable approach towards this whole thing. I feel I am a very confident and well spoken person, I dress nicely and I look reasonable handsome. I have had several long term relationships with very pretty women, all of them taller than me. My last girlfriend was 173cm tall, and It really never bothered me or her. I am also quite successful (as most here who can afford these surgeries) and have a sizable social media following.
So from a "stats" perspective I feel I have many boxes ticked off. I also have an enormous work capacity and I have worked my ass off for years to get here! For the most part I am happy with myself and my life. But with being said, I do know about the countless studies that show what a disadvantage being a short man is. I was 165cm tall in a nordic country, and that is very short. Studies show that short men will make less for the same amount of work, short men will have a harder time being promoted, shorter men earn less respect, shorter men are taken less seriously and woman find shorter men less attractive.
For me it was simple and logical. Knowing what I know, why would I want to live the rest of my life at a disadvantage? Knowing what I know, why would I want to work harder and get less success, less respect and less payment for the same amount of work as my piers? Knowing what i know, why would I not want to level the playing field if possbile. So that is pretty much the biggest reason I did what I did, so I could play on the same level as the rest of society. I no longer have a disadvantage in the work place, I no longer have a disadvantage at a social gathering and I no longer have a disadvantage with women.
There is a famous study that show women will reject men 85% of the time if you are 165cm tall. The same study shows the rejection rate is only 15% when you are 178cm tall. For my whole adult life I have gotten countless of compliments from women about my looks, heck I've had drop dead gorgeous women come up to me and say things like "you're hot" or "I am gonna marry you". I am not saying this to brag or tut my own horn, but to be real and honest. Almost none of those encounters with women even got me a date. For a long time this really fked with my head. How can I keep hearing these nice words from women so many times, but at the same time not getting much success? How can drop dead gorgeous women slide into my DMs, ask me out and when they meet me things change up completely? For years I could not make any sense of any of this.....
... until I one day became self-conscious about my height, then it all made sense. It doesn't matter how good looking you are if you are short, well to most women. I have a had success with women, don't get me wrong. But the amount of women I had to meet to so I could meet that one girl who didn't care about height was always very hard work. Again, I not trying to brag - and if I am coming across that way I do apologize. I understand I was, or am lucky. Short and good looking is not as bad as short and average, or even short and below average. But I do genuinely believe that if you are average looking and average height you will have good success with women - more so than short and good looking.
At the end of the day, there are many reasons for me doing this. But in general it has been to make life easier in as many ways as possible.
I'll end on a different note, to put what I am saying into a different perspective. A few years back I looked at buying a Range Rover, the big one. Loved the car, and really wanted one. But there was one issues, an issues I encountered many times in large cars. And that was the seat cushion being to long for my short femurs, and I could not if my life depended on it sit comfortably because my femurs where too short. In other words I was literally too short for a Range Rover. When the new one came to dealers this summer, I knew I was gonna love it! But the big questions was, would I now fit better? And yes, the answer is YES! I have no problems and my femurs are now more than long enough for the long cushion of the new Range Rover. It may sound like a small and trivial thing, but for me it is another huge improvement in life quality.
Hi Stand Taller,
I've read it from start to finish over and over, I couldn't stop reading.
You mentioned so many situations that I could identify with.
Thank you very much for it!
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Hello Stand Taller, your diary and your progress so far have been incredible, also having achieved those 12 cm in just one segment, admirable. Tell me, how are you doing so far in terms of your bone recovery, your athletic ability...etc?
and one last question, is it true that betz allows his patients to lengthen between 8 and 9 inches?
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Hi Stand Taller,
I've read it from start to finish over and over, I couldn't stop reading.
You mentioned so many situations that I could identify with.
Thank you very much for it!
I am glad you appreciated what i wrote. My diary may be a little different to others because I am trying as good as possbile to convey my feelings, before and after. We can talk about as many technical things a possbile, but at the end of the say we are all left alone with our feelings and how we feel.
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Hello Stand Taller, your diary and your progress so far have been incredible, also having achieved those 12 cm in just one segment, admirable. Tell me, how are you doing so far in terms of your bone recovery, your athletic ability...etc?
and one last question, is it true that betz allows his patients to lengthen between 8 and 9 inches?
I took X-rays about two months ago, and will take new one in about a month. My last X-rays where good, with good bone healing. But because of my extreme lengthening I will have much longer bone recovery than most. I just stopped using crutches 6 das ago, so walking is still hard and tiresome without them. I am also a little stiff in my walk, and I have a slight limp in my left leg because of more stiffness in that leg. But I am seeing improvements everyday though.
Yesterday was the first time since before more surgery I did some shopping at the grocery store without even a shopping cart, 100% free-walking - and I was fine.
The Bezt bone is only capable of extending 12cm if I am not mistaken. With an initial gap of 0,6mm (like a had) plus the maximum of the bone, you cannot in theory gain more than 12,6cm. So 8-9 inches in one segment is impossible, but on two segments. Doing femurs, recovering and then doing tibias a year after recovery of femurs is totally possible. So if you did want to, had the money, the time and the will you could do 8-9 inches.
For me I had a goal of 177cm, so going 11,5cm was my original goal. Betz however was more conservative (which is a good thing) and wrote down 10cm in the papers i signed. He then said that based on my X-rays and the actual surgery he would be able to determine more precisely my limit. This has to do with your bone structure and also how and where he was able to physically place the Betz bone into my femurs. It was not before after surgery he was sure about my maximum height.
After surgery he told me that it all went fine ,and that I would be able to reach 11cm if everything goes well during my lengthening process. This meant if my body would cope with it fine, like muscles, pain, nerves and bone healing. I was then told if everything looked fine at 11cm I would be able to go the last 0,5cm. At around 10,5cm I reached out to Dr Becker (who had been my primary contact, I actually haven't had much contact with Dr Betz) because I was getting sick at tired about the whole lengthening process and I just wanted to start recovering. I was very stiff at this point and also was plagued by my bad duck ass. But Dr Becker said that everything else is fine and even though the last CM might mean an extra month or even two of recovery and if I feel I could take that, it would be worth it. And yes recovery has been long and hard, but I am REALLY glad I am 177cm tall, and not 176cm tall.
Before surgery I had this idea of becoming 180cm tall, or maybe even taller. I went into this surgery kind of like, let's do this and if everything is fine I'll do a second surgery later on to become 180cm +. The thing is, when you are 165cm tall is a country where the average male is around 179 - 180cm tall you are smaller than most and you are not used to looking anybody into their eyes. You actually HAVE NO IDEA what it feels like to look most other men into their eyes. You only have your lower perspective and in that sense height is just a number for you, a goal, a length your really can't relate to. In the same way taller people can't relate to being well below average, us short men CAN'T relate to being average.
Once I hit 177cm tall and started walking around with crutches and now without them all my desire to become any taller has disappeared completely. Yes, I may be 2 - 3 cm below average - but I can tell you that most people won't even notice or care. Heck I don't notice, and I feel the same height as people who are 180cm tall because I now look them straight into their eyes. That is for me what makes the whole difference, look other men that you think look tall (because your whole life they where tall from your perspective) are now the same height. Again, look at the photo of me and my physiotherapist, he is 180cm tall - but do you think you would really notice that if you met us casually and I didn't ask you to gauge our heights?
https://freeimage.host/i/141122seonsored.HHF9EWg
So I am done, I don't need any more surgery! I don't feel small anymore, well because I'm not - I am basically average which is good enough for me.
I was lucky because both my seating height and knee height was the same as friends between 178-180cm tall which meant my femurs where short. So lengthening my femurs meant my proportions would be normal. But my wingspan is only 173cm, so I do have slightly shorter arms than average for my height. So in reality if you care about proportions I really shouldn't lengthen much more, do I care about my shorter than average wingspan? No, doesn't affect me at all. But maybe if I did lengthen 2 - 3cm more I would notice it? Who knows and who cares right? As said I am done, and I feel I have very good proportions over all now.
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I also feel now that I don't have much or any pain in my lower back while walking, so I can now do normal shopping and walking around without lower back pain. I think this will also just improve more and more as time goes by.
Yeah, my PT has also told me that strong glutes and belly muscles will help against duck ass. So I do exercises daily. I live two flights of stairs up, so actually was able to walk up stairs without crutches a while back, and then down (I found walking down harder than walking up) shortly after that.
I totally understand what you mean, because I honestly didn't feel I had much or any height neurosis - or even any complex about my height. Honestly I feel I have tried to take as much of a logical and reasonable approach towards this whole thing. I feel I am a very confident and well spoken person, I dress nicely and I look reasonable handsome. I have had several long term relationships with very pretty women, all of them taller than me. My last girlfriend was 173cm tall, and It really never bothered me or her. I am also quite successful (as most here who can afford these surgeries) and have a sizable social media following.
So from a "stats" perspective I feel I have many boxes ticked off. I also have an enormous work capacity and I have worked my ass off for years to get here! For the most part I am happy with myself and my life. But with being said, I do know about the countless studies that show what a disadvantage being a short man is. I was 165cm tall in a nordic country, and that is very short. Studies show that short men will make less for the same amount of work, short men will have a harder time being promoted, shorter men earn less respect, shorter men are taken less seriously and woman find shorter men less attractive.
For me it was simple and logical. Knowing what I know, why would I want to live the rest of my life at a disadvantage? Knowing what I know, why would I want to work harder and get less success, less respect and less payment for the same amount of work as my piers? Knowing what i know, why would I not want to level the playing field if possbile. So that is pretty much the biggest reason I did what I did, so I could play on the same level as the rest of society. I no longer have a disadvantage in the work place, I no longer have a disadvantage at a social gathering and I no longer have a disadvantage with women.
There is a famous study that show women will reject men 85% of the time if you are 165cm tall. The same study shows the rejection rate is only 15% when you are 178cm tall. For my whole adult life I have gotten countless of compliments from women about my looks, heck I've had drop dead gorgeous women come up to me and say things like "you're hot" or "I am gonna marry you". I am not saying this to brag or tut my own horn, but to be real and honest. Almost none of those encounters with women even got me a date. For a long time this really fked with my head. How can I keep hearing these nice words from women so many times, but at the same time not getting much success? How can drop dead gorgeous women slide into my DMs, ask me out and when they meet me things change up completely? For years I could not make any sense of any of this.....
... until I one day became self-conscious about my height, then it all made sense. It doesn't matter how good looking you are if you are short, well to most women. I have a had success with women, don't get me wrong. But the amount of women I had to meet to so I could meet that one girl who didn't care about height was always very hard work. Again, I not trying to brag - and if I am coming across that way I do apologize. I understand I was, or am lucky. Short and good looking is not as bad as short and average, or even short and below average. But I do genuinely believe that if you are average looking and average height you will have good success with women - more so than short and good looking.
At the end of the day, there are many reasons for me doing this. But in general it has been to make life easier in as many ways as possible.
I'll end on a different note, to put what I am saying into a different perspective. A few years back I looked at buying a Range Rover, the big one. Loved the car, and really wanted one. But there was one issues, an issues I encountered many times in large cars. And that was the seat cushion being to long for my short femurs, and I could not if my life depended on it sit comfortably because my femurs where too short. In other words I was literally too short for a Range Rover. When the new one came to dealers this summer, I knew I was gonna love it! But the big questions was, would I now fit better? And yes, the answer is YES! I have no problems and my femurs are now more than long enough for the long cushion of the new Range Rover. It may sound like a small and trivial thing, but for me it is another huge improvement in life quality.
Well said Standtaller. Everyone has his own reasons for doing this. I have been feeling similar like you in terms of "why should I did not get the most out of my life". It is not that I was not successfull so far. I also have made a great career so far and had reasonable success with womens. Maybe precisely for this reason the pain to do this surgery wasn´t strong enough.
Finally, this has been changed after I moved to a new gym last year. It may sounds silly but unfortunately they had two things which have remind me allways that I am simply to small for a man... The one thing were their lockers. They have typically for a locker a storage compartment in the upper third for smaller things like a mobile, a wallet, basecaps etc. Of course this storage compartment has been constructed for an average size man, so I always had to jump, to check, if I have been leaving something of my stuff in this storage compartment. The other thing were their urinals which are as well made for an average sized man, so that people who are smaller need to stand on tenpeaks to pee. You might imagine how I have been feeling....
It might sound silly that neither the harder career path nor the higher hurdles to attract a women were able to motivate me to do this surgery in my twenties, so that it has been needed a new gym to get me to the conclusion to do it. But that is life and I am now happy that things has turned out like they are :) Finally, I think it is important to be happy in/with your life and to realize your own projects, dreams your are burning and working for. At least I personally don´t want to get ever in the position saying "If I had rather done that back then"
So, I am happy that you have realized your dreams as well and are now gonna fit into the new Range Rover ;D ;D. I am sure it will let you forget the whole incredible journey you (and we all others) have been getting through this surgery.
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Day 353 (Day 195 Post clicking)
Happy new year everybody!
My last update was November 19th and things where looking really good then, and my progress until December 1st was speeding up..... but then....
I got the FLU virus and this one hit me like nothin before it. I was basically knocked out bed and sofa prone for three weeks! I can't remember ever being as sick as I was, and laying down for three weeks straight with not exercise or stretching felt like a huge step back.....
All in all I lost about a month where I did not have any progress, three weeks sick and about a week and a half to get back to where I was before I became sick. So the past month has been really hard and again I lost hope - which is so easy to loose during this process. My goal for walking normal on my one year anniversary of the surgery is not looking realistic, since that date is two weeks away. It is just really hard having lost a whole month when things where looking so good!
But on a positive note, my duck ass is still improving and it is the only reason I still can't walk normally. Here is pic from yesterday:
https://freeimage.host/i/HuVgvuj
It is still apparent under the mirror and when I walk, but standing with clothes it is hard to see. But I seen good progress lately with getting rid of it completely.
BUT NOW FOR A HUGE MILESTONE!
During the whole lengthening process and until yesterday I haven't had a drop of alcohol (or I had half a beer on Christmas) because I didn't want to drink while on crutches (which I stopped using November 16th). Though the Betz bone is strong and full weight bearing, you still feel very fragile before your bones start to consolidate. After having said no to almost every social event the past year which included drinking I was determined to be able to celebrate new years with my friends at this night club. Even though I have effectively been of the crutches for around three weeks (not including the time I was sick) I was still bound to my car while out and about shopping and doing errands. Yesterday though would be the first time leaving my car behind and also drinking alcohol.
I started the evening with drinking half a bottle of wine before taking an Uber down town to the night club. I was worried that my tolerance would be basically zero after a year without alcohol, but to my surprise I actually had not problem with my tolerance being low - and actually the opposite seemed to be true. I think it has to be down to the fact I have put on around 9-10kgs in weight (new bone, new muscle, etc) when growing 11,5cm.
I was able to get to the club, stand in the que, find my friends and party until the late morning - not getting home before around 06:00. Before taking a taxi home I even walked around 400m down this street. All in all, waking around the club, getting to and forth with some walking at the end was actually fine. Yes I am very tired and a little sore today, but everything went better than expected.
Now that was the practical bit, but now I wanna talk about what it felt like going to a night club and being normal height for the very first time in my whole life. First of, standing in the line to get in I suddenly wasn't a midget in an ocean of tall people - I felt normal and equal to everybody else. And my first experience of "normal privilege" (hoping to coin that phrase, haha) was when paying to get in this girl about two meters to my left shouted out "hey, I'm in front of you in the line", I then look over at here, smile, laugh and say "that doesn't even make sense, you are way over there, but nice try. Next time though I'll let you sneak in in front of me" She replied with smile "okay, that's a deal". It is not the first time girls have flirted with me like that, but I wasn't expecting it to happed within the first five minutes of getting there.
During the evening I had two beautiful women who where very interested in me, one of actually got quite a bit mad because I seemed rather casual about the whole thing. Again, it's not the first time two beautiful women have shown interest in one evening - last time was the time I met my ex for the very first time. But its not something I experience often, and again I wasn't expecting to happen the first time taking my new height out for a drive!
All in all I felt more positive vibes and responses from women in general getting more smiles than usual. Also walking around in the night club and on the dance floor being normal height was awesome, and being taller than most women even those in heels felt awesome. This was is of course just one night out, so the sample size is tiny - so I am very curious to see what my experience will be moving forward.
With that being said though, I have almost two decades of experience with going out and know what to expect - last night seemed to be one of the best in that regard. I've written here before about my appearance and my experience - and how those two have been further apart than what one would expect. There should be a direct correlation between your looks and how women respond, and in my case I have concluded that my old height was the missing variable that "messed" up the results. And yesterday what the first time in my life I felt that my experience finally matched my appearance.
I am not trying to brag or tut my own horn here, so again I do apologize if I come across that way. My whole life I have been told positives things about how I look, but that often hasn't matched my experience with women. In my experience only about 1-2 out of ten women have responded as expected, but this also fits well with studies done on the subject. My point here is that if you are an average looking man (which most are by definition) and you struggle with attracting women I truly believe most of than resistance comes from being short. It is too early to tell from personal experience yet, but there are many studies on this. I truly believe if you can get close to average height in your country and have average looks you will dramatically improve your success with women.
Even though I still walk kind of funny, am not in quite as good shape as before surgery, and haven't updated my wardrobe for my new height yet - yesterday was the first time out and about I felt like a complete human being. A normal person equal to most others, and it felt great.
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Great to read about your experience at the night club (specialty that I have same starting heigh as you)!! We don’t get much of that on this forum.
Could you please share your latest femur x-rays?
Please keep updating us and thanks.
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Day 365 (Day 207 Post clicking)
One year ago I was on my way to a hotel in Freiburg excited and scared. Tomorrow it is one year since I had my surgery, but I still remember it like if it was yesterday. It would be the last time I went to bed being the height I had been since I was 13 years old. It is strange to think about being one height for more than 20 years, and then suddenly growing almost 12cm in less than 6 months. When I walk around my apartment and look in the mirror, I see me - the same me I have seen for my whole life. I am starting to get used to my new height, at home at least. I am starting for forget how it was to be short - at the same time it strange to think that I may never be called short ever again. Maybe some tall person above 2 meters could call me at 177cm short, but I don't think the vast majority of people would. I've also started to re calibrate my brain when looking at other people. Before, I would look at most people at my brain would be calibrated so I could determine if they where taller or shorter than me. With the vast majority of people being shorter than me, that wasn't hard. Now though, I still struggle - and I still look at people my height and think they are "tall" or at least taller than me - but my brain is getting better with time, recalibrating itself.
It being almost a year since my surgery, I honestly thought I would be walking 100% normal and back to a normal life at this point. On the other hand I really didn't think I was gonna reach my goal of 176cm or even exceeding it at 177cm. I thought that maybe 173-173cm would be my limit and more realistic. But I did reach 177cm and I am glad I did push myself this far. I may not be walking 100% normal or 100% back to normal life, but I am 85-90% there. I still have a little duck ass, a little hip sway and a little stiffness when walking - but things have been improving more and more the past few weeks. I can walk more and longer without getting fatigued or stiff.
I have even gotten to the point I can go out and drink with my friends. I tried this the first time on New Years Eve, and again last weekend. I am still a bit away from being able to walk long distance on a night out and dance the whole night - but one step at a time, and in time I am 100% sure I will get there.
This has been a long journey, and there is still a long way to go. But I am more optimistic than ever at this point in time and I think I will be walking 100% normally within a few months. And even if it takes me another year (which I don't think it will), what is few years for another 40 - 50 years being normal in height.
I'll leave you guys with a photo of me out with friends last weekend. I am the one on the right. My friend in the middle is 178cm, and the one to the left is 191cm - though he is a little hunched over in this pic. In the second pic you see me next to the same friend who is 178cm, but when I was 165cm. Pretty insane to look at the difference.
https://freeimage.host/i/HYG6bix
https://freeimage.host/i/HYGPnlp
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Wow, this is amazing. You were able to get the same if not more height than many quadrilateral patients but were also able to complete it within a very reasonable amount of time. Congratulations. May I ask, which home country are you from? Also, did you put a down payment on the entire cost of the surgery or did you finance it?
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Wow, this is amazing. You were able to get the same if not more height than many quadrilateral patients but were also able to complete it within a very reasonable amount of time. Congratulations. May I ask, which home country are you from? Also, did you put a down payment on the entire cost of the surgery or did you finance it?
Well I am not fully recovered yet, but yes I was able to get the same length or more than most quadrilateral patients, but in one surgery. Even if my total recovery time is the same as a quadrilateral patient I've still saved money and risk of a second surgery. I would still not recommend doing this for everybody. I was lucky to have relatively short femurs, with a ratio of almost 1:1, after surgery my femur to tibia ratio is around 1:1,33 - 1:1,35, with the average being 1:1,28. So my femurs are a little longer than normal compared to my tibias, but nobody except me is going to care or notice. I also have a photo of me with my PT in an earlier post, and I have longer tibias than him - even though he is a little taller than me. So again, nobody's gonna notice or care.
I live in Northern Europe, but I don't want to be more specific than that. I payed for the whole surgery with cash, no finance. But if I didn't have the cash I would probably finance it - I mean it's worth it.
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Love reading your updates and hope you're back to walking 100% soon! :)
Can you share a bit more on your recovery other than walking? PT / exercise you're doing?
How do you feel about your athletic abilities / biomechanics after this much lengthening in one segment?
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Day 365 (Day 207 Post clicking)
One year ago I was on my way to a hotel in Freiburg excited and scared. Tomorrow it is one year since I had my surgery, but I still remember it like if it was yesterday. It would be the last time I went to bed being the height I had been since I was 13 years old. It is strange to think about being one height for more than 20 years, and then suddenly growing almost 12cm in less than 6 months. When I walk around my apartment and look in the mirror, I see me - the same me I have seen for my whole life. I am starting to get used to my new height, at home at least. I am starting for forget how it was to be short - at the same time it strange to think that I may never be called short ever again. Maybe some tall person above 2 meters could call me at 177cm short, but I don't think the vast majority of people would. I've also started to re calibrate my brain when looking at other people. Before, I would look at most people at my brain would be calibrated so I could determine if they where taller or shorter than me. With the vast majority of people being shorter than me, that wasn't hard. Now though, I still struggle - and I still look at people my height and think they are "tall" or at least taller than me - but my brain is getting better with time, recalibrating itself.
It being almost a year since my surgery, I honestly thought I would be walking 100% normal and back to a normal life at this point. On the other hand I really didn't think I was gonna reach my goal of 176cm or even exceeding it at 177cm. I thought that maybe 173-173cm would be my limit and more realistic. But I did reach 177cm and I am glad I did push myself this far. I may not be walking 100% normal or 100% back to normal life, but I am 85-90% there. I still have a little duck ass, a little hip sway and a little stiffness when walking - but things have been improving more and more the past few weeks. I can walk more and longer without getting fatigued or stiff.
I have even gotten to the point I can go out and drink with my friends. I tried this the first time on New Years Eve, and again last weekend. I am still a bit away from being able to walk long distance on a night out and dance the whole night - but one step at a time, and in time I am 100% sure I will get there.
This has been a long journey, and there is still a long way to go. But I am more optimistic than ever at this point in time and I think I will be walking 100% normally within a few months. And even if it takes me another year (which I don't think it will), what is few years for another 40 - 50 years being normal in height.
I'll leave you guys with a photo of me out with friends last weekend. I am the one on the right. My friend in the middle is 178cm, and the one to the left is 191cm - though he is a little hunched over in this pic. In the second pic you see me next to the same friend who is 178cm, but when I was 165cm. Pretty insane to look at the difference.
https://freeimage.host/i/HYG6bix
https://freeimage.host/i/HYGPnlp
I showed your picture with your friends to a friend of mine and asked if anything seemed off to him on this picture. He looked for 5 minutes and said "no, what would be off?". Passing the eye test I feel like is the ultimate goal with the surgery, so congrats on the success.
How is your gait atm and are your biomechanics good? I.e. can you squat to pick up stuff normally etc?
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Love reading your updates and hope you're back to walking 100% soon! :)
Can you share a bit more on your recovery other than walking? PT / exercise you're doing?
How do you feel about your athletic abilities / biomechanics after this much lengthening in one segment?
Thanks, I am glad you enjoy my updates!
Walking is kind of the main metric for measurement of recovery, that's why I basically only write about it. Most of my recovery seems to be down to my hip and duck ass, that also determine how well I can walk. With that being said, general range of motion in my hip area as well as strength has been poor - but that is also improving daily. I've had very stiff muscles since day one and still wear compression tights during the day because it helps make everything softer. Stiffness has meant that walking is very tiresome. Imagine walking in a pool of water that is up to your waist, that's what walking has felt like for while. On New Years Eve I measured my heart rate to 120 after walking 400 meters, that the same heart rate I should have sprinting. But just in the weeks since New Years I am not as stiff and I don't have that high heart rate from just walking anymore.
I do cardio on a bike as well as trying to walk every day, but that been hard with the snowy and icy weather we've had the past month or so. I also do whole bunch of stretching exercises several times a day and I do other stretching exercises at my physiotherapist three times a week. My issues hasn't been that I don't do that enough during the day or week, but the issue has been than I do so much my body can't handle more and I fall a sleep during the day because my body is exhausted. This has been the hardest thing about this whole thing, I've been very strong mentally (which you have to be for this procedure) - but my body hasn't been as strong as my mind. I even tried going to my PT five times a week, but my body couldn't handle it.
I can only walk, and not very smoothly yet - but that is improving every day. So I basically don't have any athletic abilities other than walking atm, though I can jump. When I get my range of motion back, I'm pretty sure I will be able to run soon after. I hope I can run normally this summer.
I've done an extreme lengthening in my femurs, more than most. But that also means that my recovery will be longer than most. Compared to somebody who has done 6cm, my recovery will at least be more than twice the time if not more.
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I showed your picture with your friends to a friend of mine and asked if anything seemed off to him on this picture. He looked for 5 minutes and said "no, what would be off?". Passing the eye test I feel like is the ultimate goal with the surgery, so congrats on the success.
How is your gait atm and are your biomechanics good? I.e. can you squat to pick up stuff normally etc?
That's awesome! No I don't think anybody is going to notice my femurs being as long as they are. My gait is still very much limited because of my duck ass and muscle stiffness, but that it improving noticeably on a daily basis. Usually when I sit on the sofa at home or in the car, I have to do some different stretching exercises to soften up the muscle so I can walk relatively normal. After taking a few more steps my muscles soften up even more and my gait improves. How this is improving is the time and amount of stretching I have to do after being in a resting position for while is getting shorter and shorter every day, as well as my gait is improving.
I'll try to film a clip of me walking next week so you can seen my gait. Can squat down a little bit and also get up no problems from off the floor. I can also use my legs to to get up from the sofa without having to push my self. So my strength is improving every day.
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I've done an extreme lengthening in my femurs, more than most. But that also means that my recovery will be longer than most. Compared to somebody who has done 6cm, my recovery will at least be more than twice the time if not more.
Yeah I know walking is the main metric but was definitely nice to hear how you're doing in other areas as well. Are you going to the gym as well? Or is that too early? What type of strength exercises are you doing? I imagine with your PT you're focusing more on stretching than strength.
Because of the extreme lengthening you went through I think it's very interesting to follow your recovery. Hopefully you're back to 100% real soon ;)
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awesome diary
can you show a photo of your legs now? we want to see if you look like this now:
(https://s8d6.turboimg.net/t1/84218233_2221059_man1-anfas_1.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/84218233/2221059_man1-anfas_1.jpg.html)
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awesome diary
can you show a photo of your legs now? we want to see if you look like this now:
(https://s8d6.turboimg.net/t1/84218233_2221059_man1-anfas_1.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/84218233/2221059_man1-anfas_1.jpg.html)
There are literally many pictures he posted here. The last one just a few posts ago. Maybe just scroll up?
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awesome diary
can you show a photo of your legs now? we want to see if you look like this now:
Thanks man!
Here is photo of me without pants, so you can see my legs for what they are. I think I have better proportions than the photo you posted, is than you? I have done an extreme lengthening, so I was always going to have a little long femurs - so I don't mind. But unless you know or look for my longs femurs, don't think most people are going to notice. And once I wear clothes it is basically unnoticeable.
https://freeimage.host/i/HYydyLG
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Your proportions looks completely fine to me. I never really understood why people obsess so much about proportions anyway. In my mind, the self-esteem boost that 12cm of absolute height could give you far outweighs the possibility that 1 in a 100 people will notice let alone care. If anything, your proportions give you a leggier look which in my opinion looks better because it makes you look even taller.
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Your proportions looks completely fine to me. I never really understood why people obsess so much about proportions anyway. In my mind, the self-esteem boost that 12cm of absolute height could give you far outweighs the possibility that 1 in a 100 people will notice let alone care. If anything, your proportions give you a leggier look which in my opinion looks better because it makes you look even taller.
I definitely agree with this. Think about it that way, rather be your dream height with slightly odd proportions or shorter with good proportions? I think if you say the second then perhaps you should reconsider if you suffer enough from height neurosis to do LL in the first place…
Again this is not saying overlengthening is good. Just the aesthetic point alone I think with just underwear you do look elongated, especially when you pull it up like on your right side in the picture. But it is not as terrible as the other guy who was posted here.
So aesthetically you can be happy about yourself and new found confidence.
I am more worried about the following;
biomechanical changes and alignment perhaps risk of osteoarthritis in the knee primarily, perhaps hips as well, in a few years into the future
Very long recovery. Maybe i misread it but fighting duckass and poor gait 1 year post op should really not be the case. I think at the 1 year mark most patients should more or less be recovered enough to do most things except from intense sports maybe.
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Your proportions looks completely fine to me. I never really understood why people obsess so much about proportions anyway. In my mind, the self-esteem boost that 12cm of absolute height could give you far outweighs the possibility that 1 in a 100 people will notice let alone care. If anything, your proportions give you a leggier look which in my opinion looks better because it makes you look even taller.
Yeah, I don't really care about proportions. If anything, my almost 1:1 Tibia/Femur ratio pre-surgery meant I have very short femurs, and had much stranger proportions before lengthening.
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I definitely agree with this. Think about it that way, rather be your dream height with slightly odd proportions or shorter with good proportions? I think if you say the second than perhaps you should reconsider if you suffer enough from height neurosis to do LL in the first place…
Again this is not saying overlengthening is good. Just the aesthetic point alone I think with just underwear you do look elongated, especially when you pull it up like on your right side in the picture. But it is not as terrible as the other guy who was posted here.
So aesthetically you can be happy about yourself and new found confidence.
I am more worried about the following;
biomechanical changes and alignment perhaps risk of osteoarthritis in the knee primarily, perhaps hips as well, in a few years into the future
Very long recovery. Maybe i misread it but fighting duckass and poor gait 1 year post op should really not be the case. I think at the 1 year mark most patients should more or less be recovered enough to do most things except from intense sports maybe.
The thing is that before surgery because for my short femurs, my proportions where stranger and more unusual than now. Average femur to tibia ratio is 1:1,28. Before surgery my ratio was 1:1,04, so very short femurs - and now my ratio is 1:1,35. In other words my ratio is much more normal now than before. Sure my femurs may look elongated now, but I think that mostly has to do with them and my muscles actually being elongated. I think once I start building more and more muscle they will look less stretched and more natural.
I think I read a study from a few years back that risk osteoarthritis or arthritis is not higher after limb lengthening - but I may be wrong. Duckass is relative to how much one lengthens and how well the body reacts to lengthening. I have done an extreme lengthening in the femurs, possibly more than anybody here on the forum (?), in that case my journey cannot be compared to most. Sure, most people are pretty much fully recovered after a year, but then again - most people lengthening between 5-8cm, I did 11,4cm. For twice the length you can expect at least twice the recovery time, if not more. I was told that the bone consolidates 1cm for every 40 days. Just in bone consolidations alone we are looking at 456 days. Again, you can't compare my case with most.
My duckass, muscle stiffness and gait are improving every day. Today I have less duckass, less muscle stiffness and a better gait than yesterday. There is no rushing this procedure and there are not shortcuts. If there is one thing I have learned about limb lengthening it's that everybody is different and has different recovery and complications if any. And the other thing is that everything will get better in time. Back in the beginning of September my duckass and range of motion was so bad that I actually though I may never walk again. But now I have no problem going to the store and shop groceries. Sure my gait isn't 100% yet, I can still shop without any problems - and as I said. Mt form is improving every day.
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I definitely agree with this. Think about it that way, rather be your dream height with slightly odd proportions or shorter with good proportions? I think if you say the second than perhaps you should reconsider if you suffer enough from height neurosis to do LL in the first place…
Yup, exactly what I was thinking. To me, LL should just be a straight shot; either go for as much as you can while minimizing loss of function or don't go for it at all. The price you have to pay for LL: the mental challenge, financial considerations, pain, time doing research, and risk of complications is just not worth it for a couple cm. Reality is there is always going to be a proportions trade off whether we get 1cm or 16cm.
The goal for most of us should be to keep things simple: cure height neurosis and minimize societal stigma towards our height while maintaining our pre-surgical functionality. Worrying about other body image issues/proportions just adds unnecessary anxiety/complication to the price we already have to pay.
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awesome diary
can you show a photo of your legs now? we want to see if you look like this now:
(https://s8d6.turboimg.net/t1/84218233_2221059_man1-anfas_1.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/84218233/2221059_man1-anfas_1.jpg.html)
Everyone loves to troll this guy's picture. I think wearing a bikini shaped briefs makes his femurs look extra long is part of it. Normal briefs he'd look less weird. Boxers he might even look ok. Perhaps someone can Photoshop? I'm curious to see how much is his actual proportions vs idiotic choice of bikini briefs.
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Were you ever medically confirmed to be 1:1 ratio before LL? You can only say that via xray really. Most people just measure wrongly, a common mistake is measuring heel to top of the knee (is not tibia length) and from of the knee to groin area (is not the femur length).
I am asking this specifically because 1:1 ratio would mean you have had some pretty strong birth defect or perhaps severe accident during growth years. Just imagine this for a second; a quick search reveals that the mean average femur length in the average Joe is 50cm. And the tibia 39cm.
That means imagine how the average Joe would look like with +11cm only on tibia LL. Yea that would be a true 1:1 ratio. You can shop any person with that amount on tibia only and you will see how freaky it looks. I did +10 mockup on tibia myself and it look really alienish. I am all for long tibias but with tiny femurs it did look like on stelts. But it would be 1:1 ratio.
there is a reason why body parts grow to their correct sizes and proportions. And not your pinky being all of a sudden as big as your middle finger for example. And no severe conditions I ever heard of, even like marfan syndrome (where all of your limbs are elongated) have 1:1 ratio. „i have 1:1 ratio“ most often means wrongly measured or just guessed.
The thing I wanna add here is that most males wear boxershorts and they visually cut off quite a bit of the femur that‘s why a lot of people consider their femurs as short
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Everyone loves to troll this guy's picture. I think wearing a bikini shaped briefs makes his femurs look extra long is part of it. Normal briefs he'd look less weird. Boxers he might even look ok. Perhaps someone can Photoshop? I'm curious to see how much is his actual proportions vs idiotic choice of bikini briefs.
This guy's proportions probably don't look as bad now. I imagine he has built a lot more muscle in his thighs which balances his frame out.
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Everyone loves to troll this guy's picture. I think wearing a bikini shaped briefs makes his femurs look extra long is part of it. Normal briefs he'd look less weird. Boxers he might even look ok. Perhaps someone can Photoshop? I'm curious to see how much is his actual proportions vs idiotic choice of bikini briefs.
Here you go I shopped him with normal boxershorts. not the best shop but does the trick. tbh makes up a lot. yea he would benefit a lot from tibia LL. his upper body and everything else fits perfectly. it's only the tibiae look really short.
he can cover it up with clothing and lift shoes.
e:/ ok for whatever reason I can't post a pic. so here a link: https://imgur.com/a/Lju6Hjs
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Were you ever medically confirmed to be 1:1 ratio before LL? You can only say that via xray really. Most people just measure wrongly, a common mistake is measuring heel to top of the knee (is not tibia length) and from of the knee to groin area (is not the femur length).
I am asking this specifically because 1:1 ratio would mean you have had some pretty strong birth defect or perhaps severe accident during growth years. Just imagine this for a second; a quick search reveals that the mean average femur length in the average Joe is 50cm. And the tibia 39cm.
That means imagine how the average Joe would look like with +11cm only on tibia LL. Yea that would be a true 1:1 ratio. You can shop any person with that amount on tibia only and you will see how freaky it looks. I did +10 mockup on tibia myself and it look really alienish. I am all for long tibias but with tiny femurs it did look like on stelts. But it would be 1:1 ratio.
there is a reason why body parts grow to their correct sizes and proportions. And not your pinky being all of a sudden as big as your middle finger for example. And no severe conditions I ever heard of, even like marfan syndrome (where all of your limbs are elongated) have 1:1 ratio. „i have 1:1 ratio“ most often means wrongly measured or just guessed.
The thing I wanna add here is that most males wear boxershorts and they visually cut off quite a bit of the femur that‘s why a lot of people consider their femurs as short
No never had my femurs or tibias medically measured. I used these two videos to measure correctly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVm0o8KG2NU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKFNZF8O1o
So my measurement isn't 100% accurate, but should be close enough. I could also cross reference this method on my femurs with the scars from where the nails and screws went in against my x-rays. This way I was able to measure the length more accurately. My femurs are now 50cm and my tibias 37cm. If I subtract 11,4cm from my femurs, that puts them at 38,6 before surgery.
I don't have any birth defects that I know of. But compared to friends who are 178-180cm the height of my knee while sitting and also my sitting height has be very close to them. So I've just had short femurs, I mean people have different proportions right. A friend in our group is 175cm tall, but his sitting height is more than another friend who is 191cm. I also made a ton of mock-ups before surgery and I looked fine in all of them. This is also how I was confident that I could lengthen as much as I did.
I've also written about this before, but I had so short femurs before that I had problems driving bigger cars like Range Rovers or Volvo XC90s because the length of the cushion was too long. Just take a look at this photo, I am sitting in the back of larger luxury car and the cushion is longer than my femurs. Nobody I know at my old height ever had this problem.
https://freeimage.host/i/HaH8nxn
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Day 368 (Day 210 Post clicking)
It's now more than a year since I did my surgery and I am not fully recovered yet, so I thought I'd write a little timeline for my recovery and why I think my recovery is taking more time than most others.
My surgery was on January 14th 2022. Everything went well and I grew 6mm from the initial gap. I know I wrote 5mm in my diary, but at the time I just rounded down - but the gap was 6mm to be accurate.
On January 23rd, nine days after surgery I started the process of clicking. After almost 5 months of clicking I and a little more than 5 months after my surgery I was done clicking. In this time period I had lengthened 11,5cm reaching a height of 177cm.
In the beginning of September I stopped using crutches at home and I slowly started to walk. On November 16th I stopped using crutches altogether being able to walk outside the house without them.
December 1st I got the Flu and was knocked out for about three weeks, altogether I lost a good month of progress.
Today on the 16th of January 2023 I am walking better, more upright and more normal than ever - though I am probably a few months away being able to walk 100% normal. I still have som duckass tough.
Some have commented that my recovery has been long, and that my duckass hasn't been resolved yet - and that it is worrying. Well, I am not worried and this is why I am not.
Yes it is true that most here are fully or almost fully recovered after a year, and I am not. Most people are not only able to walk, but also jog and even run - and I am still struggling with walking normally. But most people here lengthen between 5 - 8 cm, I did 11,5cm. (for some reason, the past few weeks I thought I lengthened 11,4cm, when in reality I did 11,5cm).
If you lengthen 6cm, that is done in 2,5 months in most cases. Sometimes faster and other times slower, but I think 2,5 months is fair average. It takes 40 days to consolidate 1cm of lengthening, so we are talking about 240 days or about 8 months. One year after surgery you are 9,5 months post lengthening and 1,5 months past being fully consolidated.
Now let's take a look at me. It took me 5,25 months to lengthening 11,5cm, and that will take 460 days to consolidate! So one year later I am "only" 6,75 months post lengthening and still 220 days from being fully consolidated. So you can see that because I lengthening 11,5cm I am actually around three months behind post lengthening period than somebody who "only" lengthening 6cm. And I am "only" half way through consolidating rather than being fully consolidated 1,5 months ago. And all of this is considering that recovery time is linear independent of lengthening amount, when in reality I probably will need even more time to recovery per cm due to my extreme lengthening.
Where person who did 6cm may be at 100% recovered at the one year mark, I am due to a different timeline only about 57-60% done. So yeah, twice the lengthening is going to take around twice the time to get back to being 100% recovered.
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of course consolidation will take longer for you but that‘s not the thing that causes your duckass. To me personally it sounds very strange that you stopped crutches 3 months POST clicking at home, why so late? I stopped crutches at home entirely when I was at 6cm. At like 8.5cm I only used 1 crutch outside and sometimes when it wasn‘t too icy even only hiking sticks. All that helped me to actively fight duckass. If you are on crutches you are in a passive posture that pushes you into duckass.
I know a person that did 10.5cm and 4 weeks post clicking he was walking 100% normal with 0 duckass. Only with less stamina than before, obviously and no sports yet. 8 weeks later he sent another video and it really looks so normal. Fast and perfect gait.
I think it comes down to stretching and training. Am I remembering correctly, you did 2hours of stretching during lengthening?
That‘s sadly just not enough. Especially for 11-12cm. You would need 4h minimum, no days off. Even at only 12/13 clicks (0.6-0.7mm/day) you need 4h.
Not meaning to be offensive by any means but from my personal experience something feels a bit off with your chronology.
I personally end up at 11cm and I am at the very last few days of clicking. Only need one crutch for stairs and steps now as I need to wait a bit before I can do these unassisted but that‘s it. Duckass is slightly there but no backpain at all and it‘s only a bit visible without clothes. No wide legs at all, very loose it band (soft release was definitely enough lol). Stamina is very low. Can only walk max 45min outside before being fatigued. But muscle strengthening will become my next step soon.
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No never had my femurs or tibias medically measured. I used these two videos to measure correctly:
When you took x-rays before the surgery, they didn't measure your tibias and femurs? I thought it's pretty standard...
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of course consolidation will take longer for you but that‘s not the thing that causes your duckass. To me personally it sounds very strange that you stopped crutches 3 months POST clicking at home, why so late? I stopped crutches at home entirely when I was at 6cm. At like 8.5cm I only used 1 crutch outside and sometimes when it wasn‘t too icy even only hiking sticks. All that helped me to actively fight duckass. If you are on crutches you are in a passive posture that pushes you into duckass.
I know a person that did 10.5cm and 4 weeks post clicking he was walking 100% normal with 0 duckass. Only with less stamina than before, obviously and no sports yet. 8 weeks later he sent another video and it really looks so normal. Fast and perfect gait.
I think it comes down to stretching and training. Am I remembering correctly, you did 2hours of stretching during lengthening?
That‘s sadly just not enough. Especially for 11-12cm. You would need 4h minimum, no days off. Even at only 12/13 clicks (0.6-0.7mm/day) you need 4h.
Not meaning to be offensive by any means but from my personal experience something feels a bit off with your chronology.
I personally end up at 11cm and I am at the very last few days of clicking. Only need one crutch for stairs and steps now as I need to wait a bit before I can do these unassisted but that‘s it. Duckass is slightly there but no backpain at all and it‘s only a bit visible without clothes. No wide legs at all, very loose it band (soft release was definitely enough lol). Stamina is very low. Can only walk max 45min outside before being fatigued. But muscle strengthening will become my next step soon.
I appreciate your feedback, but the thing you have to understand is that where are not all the same. Our bodies react to this procedure differently, and different people have different problems and issues. No two stories are the same and cannot be compared directly. There is a diary here on the forum from years ago where two friends lengthening at the same time and did around the same amount of lengthening. One of the friends developed duckass and wide legs, while the other friend did not. The one that did develop these complications also spent like three times more the amount on stretching than the other guy. There is no right or wrong here, just different bodies reacting differently.
I am glad you are have been able to walk better than me, have less duck ass than me and been able to stretch as much as 4 hours every day. But if you have read all of my posts I didn't stretch for "only" 2 hours every day because I didn't want to, but because that was the limit my body was able to handle. Believe me when I say I tried and I wanted, there is nothing wrong with my power of will. In my 20s I played sports at a very high level, so I know what pushing my body to the limit feels like over years. I even prepared three months in advance, stretching every day.
I have had weeks where I have fell a sleep on the sofa for hours at random times in the day because I was completely exhausted. If you can't stay awake enough hours it doesn't matter how much time you spend on stretching if can't do anything else.
For months at my physiotherapist at the time I stopped clicking I had such bad duckass and poor range of motion because of it as well as the stiffness we used to strap myself to the bench with belts using the electric motors to pull me flat. We did this until I screamed in pain until I couldn't handle it. Read that again, I was so stiff that me pushing while be used all of his power and body wright wasn't enough to stretch me. The only thing that worked was an electric motor.
You may think my story is strange, but believe me - you where never even close to how bad I was. And if you where you'd have a little more sympathy and understanding. You wouldn't saying things like "that's so strange, because I didn't have those problems".
Here is a photo of me strapped to the bench.
https://freeimage.host/i/HauJrHx
EDIT:
And also dude, just found your diary. You are 21! And am close to 40 now, that's gonna make A HUGE DIFFERENCE! There is no comparing our stories.
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When you took x-rays before the surgery, they didn't measure your tibias and femurs? I thought it's pretty standard...
Took x-rays of my femurs, but not my tibias. Not sure why they would x-ray my tibias when doing surgery on my femurs though?
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I appreciate your feedback, but the thing you have to understand is that where are not all the same. Our bodies react to this procedure differently, and different people have different problems and issues. No two stories are the same and cannot be compared directly. There is a diary here on the forum from years ago where two friends lengthening at the same time and did around the same amount of lengthening. One of the friends developed duckass and wide legs, while the other friend did not. The one that did develop these complications also spent like three times more the amount on stretching than the other guy. There is no right or wrong here, just different bodies reacting differently.
I am glad you are have been able to walk better than me, have less duck ass than me and been able to stretch as much as 4 hours every day. But if you have read all of my posts I didn't stretch for "only" 2 hours every day because I didn't want to, but because that was the limit my body was able to handle. Believe me when I say I tried and I wanted, there is nothing wrong with my power of will. In my 20s I played sports at a very high level, so I know what pushing my body to the limit feels like over years. I even prepared three months in advance, stretching every day.
I have had weeks where I have fell a sleep on the sofa for hours at random times in the day because I was completely exhausted. If you can't stay awake enough hours it doesn't matter how much time you spend on stretching if can't do anything else.
For months at my physiotherapist at the time I stopped clicking I had such bad duckass and poor range of motion because of it as well as the stiffness we used to strap myself to the bench with belts using the electric motors to pull me flat. We did this until I screamed in pain until I couldn't handle it. Read that again, I was so stiff that me pushing while be used all of his power and body wright wasn't enough to stretch me. The only thing that worked was an electric motor.
You may think my story is strange, but believe me - you where never even close to how bad I was. And if you where you'd have a little more sympathy and understanding. You wouldn't saying things like "that's so strange, because I didn't have those problems".
Here is a photo of me strapped to the bench.
https://freeimage.host/i/HauJrHx
EDIT:
And also dude, just found your diary. You are 21! And am close to 40 now, that's gonna make A HUGE DIFFERENCE! There is no comparing our stories.
Damn yea sorry you had to experience this. Sucks.
I agree obviously everyone is different, I am not blaming you for anything. Just gave my thoughts. To me I still need to calculate and stretch after pain killers. They give me the energy to do it and sometimes i do long 3h sessions when they kick in. And in the evening i got the support from my father who helps me squeeze the last part of the stretching. I can totally second how terribly exhausting it is. I say it feels like being totally dead already and still forced to do it like in a labor camp.
But sadly I found out it‘s just more about the quantity rather than the quality of the stretch. Of course not stretching hard enough is bad but we rather just need the total time. That‘s the important part.
On a good note, I am jealous you could do 11.5! That‘s amazing. I have to quit at 11. I would also go to 11.5 but after the last xray I was told my maximum is 11 and any further would be too risky and I am not allowed.
Regards.
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Took x-rays of my femurs, but not my tibias. Not sure why they would x-ray my tibias when doing surgery on my femurs though?
Fair enough. For my consultation they x-rayed the entire leg, but I guess if it was already decided to do femurs then it doesn't make sense.
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Damn yea sorry you had to experience this. Sucks.
I agree obviously everyone is different, I am not blaming you for anything. Just gave my thoughts. To me I still need to calculate and stretch after pain killers. They give me the energy to do it and sometimes i do long 3h sessions when they kick in. And in the evening i got the support from my father who helps me squeeze the last part of the stretching. I can totally second how terribly exhausting it is. I say it feels like being totally dead already and still forced to do it like in a labor camp.
But sadly I found out it‘s just more about the quantity rather than the quality of the stretch. Of course not stretching hard enough is bad but we rather just need the total time. That‘s the important part.
On a good note, I am jealous you could do 11.5! That‘s amazing. I have to quit at 11. I would also go to 11.5 but after the last xray I was told my maximum is 11 and any further would be too risky and I am not allowed.
Regards.
It's okay, it's all in the past now. I mean stretching is still pain and I push myself through that pain every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with my PT, but it is all worth it. But I have nothing close to the pain and lack of range of motion I had until September/October. And I am getting and better every day now, so I am past the worst of it. I am at a point where I can do stretching exercises many times a day now, and as you say it has more to do with the quantity rather than the quality. I do it first thing out of bed, after breakfast, every time I get out of the car, in the evening watching series I can do many different types of exercises and even when I go to bed. But there was a period of time where I couldn't do more than two, maybe three hours the days I went to my PT.
Yeah, 11,5cm is LIFE CHANGING! It's a crazy thing having been short for the past 25 or so years, since I was a teenager. And then suddenly I am as tall as most of my friends and even taller than some. So my height neurosis is completely gone, 100%. 11,1cm is crazy too, especially with your starting height of 5 foot 10, so how tall are you know then? 6 foot 2? Closer do 6 foot 3? Insane!
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Fair enough. For my consultation they x-rayed the entire leg, but I guess if it was already decided to do femurs then it doesn't make sense.
My pre-opt preparation was kind of rushed, but totally my fault and nothing to do with Dr Betz and Dr Becker. I was supposed to have my surgery on the 10th, but because I something came up I had to postpone it. Initially the whole thing was pushed back like 4 weeks I think, but then a patient from China had issues with his Covid-19 vaccination card. I took that slot and flew down the day before, and the x-rays where done just a few hours before surgery. So I think because everything was kind of last minute they only did the femurs, but not sure if they normally do tibias though.
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It's okay, it's all in the past now. I mean stretching is still pain and I push myself through that pain every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with my PT, but it is all worth it. But I have nothing close to the pain and lack of range of motion I had until September/October. And I am getting and better every day now, so I am past the worst of it. I am at a point where I can do stretching exercises many times a day now, and as you say it has more to do with the quantity rather than the quality. I do it first thing out of bed, after breakfast, every time I get out of the car, in the evening watching series I can do many different types of exercises and even when I go to bed. But there was a period of time where I couldn't do more than two, maybe three hours the days I went to my PT.
Yeah, 11,5cm is LIFE CHANGING! It's a crazy thing having been short for the past 25 or so years, since I was a teenager. And then suddenly I am as tall as most of my friends and even taller than some. So my height neurosis is completely gone, 100%. 11,1cm is crazy too, especially with your starting height of 5 foot 10, so how tall are you know then? 6 foot 2? Closer do 6 foot 3? Insane!
Great to hear man! I am sure soon you will be recovered totally. How much sports can you do now? How about dancing in the club?
Well if everything goes according to plan I will be 6‘2.5 (189cm). But rn I can‘t even measure properly because of the duckass. It‘s taking away 2-3cm. Did you also experience that?
My pre-opt preparation was kind of rushed, but totally my fault and nothing to do with Dr Betz and Dr Becker. I was supposed to have my surgery on the 10th, but because I something came up I had to postpone it. Initially the whole thing was pushed back like 4 weeks I think, but then a patient from China had issues with his Covid-19 vaccination card. I took that slot and flew down the day before, and the x-rays where done just a few hours before surgery. So I think because everything was kind of last minute they only did the femurs, but not sure if they normally do tibias though.
Normally they did the full leg from front and sides for me.
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Great to hear man! I am sure soon you will be recovered totally. How much sports can you do now? How about dancing in the club?
Well if everything goes according to plan I will be 6‘2.5 (189cm). But rn I can‘t even measure properly because of the duckass. It‘s taking away 2-3cm. Did you also experience that?
Normally they did the full leg from front and sides for me.
Thanks, you too man!
I went to the club on New Years for the first time in over a year, it was my first time out and about without my crutches or car. I could dance like stationary around our table then, so probably a little better now. I can like almost jog lightly, but not sure I should yet. Doing another set of x-rays in a week, so hopefully consolidation is good. I have a video-appointment with Dr Becker tomorrow, so I'll ask him.
That's insane, you are literally tall now. Yeah, I haven't tried measuring for a while - but I did a "digital" mock up with my duckass. I could then alter my body to what it would be without. I think I as missing like 1,5-2cm, and now maybe 0,5-1cm, but not sure because I haven't measured lately.
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So I think because everything was kind of last minute they only did the femurs, but not sure if they normally do tibias though.
Got it! Well at least you got to do it earlier, that's always nice ;)
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I had my Facetime meeting with Dr Becker today, just discussing my progress and what to expect in the months to come. As I've written here before, Dr Becker has been my main contact person, and also the one who did the surgery on me under supervision of Dr Betz. I've only med Dr Betz a few times, but met with Dr Becker several times a day when I was in Germany. Dr Betz is great, but I think Dr Becker being much younger (guessing in his early 40s) he just has an awesome vibe.
We where talking a little about my duckass and range of motion and he said that it is hard if not impossible to compare my or any journey with anybody else's - because we are all different. He said some people develop duckass, while other don't - some develop wide legs while others don't etc. In my case I did develop severe duck ass, that will still probably take 2 - 3 months to resolve 100%.
I can also now jog very lightly, and even though I haven't gotten my latest x-rays yet I am probably fine doing that based on how I feel. I feel stronger and more solid than ever. Because of how the Betz bone works, your tibia will rotate in relation to your femur and can be described as walking on egg shells. It's a strange sensation, and will go away once the bone starts to consolidate properly. I don't have any of this rotation anymore, and even when I try to rotate my tibia it won't - so therefor my legs feel very solid now.
Doing the activities I did today, delivering and picking up in day care, going to meeting, going shopping and walking back and forth from my car I've walked around 1km - which I think is a new milestone. I am feeling better with more stamina every day, and I think I soon can do more. Dr Becker told me though to try 1km for a week, then next week try 2km etc. But after dinner today I crashed on the sofa, falling a sleep from exhaustion. I'll keep pushing though and keep up the progress!
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I had my Facetime meeting with Dr Becker today, just discussing my progress and what to expect in the months to come. As I've written here before, Dr Becker has been my main contact person, and also the one who did the surgery on me under supervision of Dr Betz. I've only med Dr Betz a few times, but met with Dr Becker several times a day when I was in Germany. Dr Betz is great, but I think Dr Becker being much younger (guessing in his early 40s) he just has an awesome vibe.
We where talking a little about my duckass and range of motion and he said that it is hard if not impossible to compare my or any journey with anybody else's - because we are all different. He said some people develop duckass, while other don't - some develop wide legs while others don't etc. In my case I did develop severe duck ass, that will still probably take 2 - 3 months to resolve 100%.
I can also now jog very lightly, and even though I haven't gotten my latest x-rays yet I am probably fine doing that based on how I feel. I feel stronger and more solid than ever. Because of how the Betz bone works, your tibia will rotate in relation to your femur and can be described as walking on egg shells. It's a strange sensation, and will go away once the bone starts to consolidate properly. I don't have any of this rotation anymore, and even when I try to rotate my tibia it won't - so therefor my legs feel very solid now.
Doing the activities I did today, delivering and picking up in day care, going to meeting, going shopping and walking back and forth from my car I've walked around 1km - which I think is a new milestone. I am feeling better with more stamina every day, and I think I soon can do more. Dr Becker told me though to try 1km for a week, then next week try 2km etc. But after dinner today I crashed on the sofa, falling a sleep from exhaustion. I'll keep pushing though and keep up the progress!
Congrats on getting to where you are, you're in the final stretch.
Question: when you first got the operation, did you have the "pinwheel effect" on your legs where they would basically glide and rotate when standing. Or were they stable and the nail would not turn easily? My left has some movement and Im hoping that goes away early in consolidation.
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Congrats on getting to where you are, you're in the final stretch.
Question: when you first got the operation, did you have the "pinwheel effect" on your legs where they would basically glide and rotate when standing. Or were they stable and the nail would not turn easily? My left has some movement and Im hoping that goes away early in consolidation.
Thanks a lot, yeah I am feeling more and more optimistic every day. As I've written in the past few posts, my gait, my duckass and my form is improving every day!
Yes I did experience this "pin wheel" effect or as Dr Becker calls it "walking on egg shells". This is because your tibia will rotate relatively to your femur due to the way the clicking mechanism works. During lengthening and walking on crutches it didn't bother me because the tension due to lengthening keeps everything tight and I didn't have too much of this "pin wheel" sensation. But once you stop clicking and your legs start to catch up at loosen this all becomes more apparent.
My left leg had more movement and in total I had 22 accidental clicks until September 11th and haven't had any more since. Had some "pin wheel" sensation a few months after that, but now my bones seem to have consolidated enough that I have zero movement and my legs feel rock solid.
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Thanks a lot, yeah I am feeling more and more optimistic every day. As I've written in the past few posts, my gait, my duckass and my form is improving every day!
Yes I did experience this "pin wheel" effect or as Dr Becker calls it "walking on egg shells". This is because your tibia will rotate relatively to your femur due to the way the clicking mechanism works. During lengthening and walking on crutches it didn't bother me because the tension due to lengthening keeps everything tight and I didn't have too much of this "pin wheel" sensation. But once you stop clicking and your legs start to catch up at loosen this all becomes more apparent.
My left leg had more movement and in total I had 22 accidental clicks until September 11th and haven't had any more since. Had some "pin wheel" sensation a few months after that, but now my bones seem to have consolidated enough that I have zero movement and my legs feel rock solid.
Beautiful, Im so glad they harden up and provide that support eventually.
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Hello Stand taller! As others have said, thanks for a comprehensive and very interesting diary so far! I especially like your focus on not only the process, but also the "aftermath" and your experience in daily life. It really adds value to this forum to get the emotional, psychosocial and longer-term story relating to having gone through this procedure and moving on from it. Of course also if there are any physical long-term effects to report. Hope you will stick around here as long as you can! And wishing you a continued good recovery of course.
I've been thinking, LLers are maybe the only human beings ever to experience what it's like having a growth spurt after the early 20s, which is kind of mind blowing. Science fiction kind of stuff.
And one thing I found especially interesting in your diary was exactly that, what you said about the strange experience of slowly growing taller and at some point no longer feeling "small" anymore around people, I think this was when you passed 170cm.
So I was wondering, do you think you would have thought differently about your height and size originally, and maybe wouldn't have desired or considered this surgery, if your starting point was at let's say 171-173cm which is slightly above where you stopped feeling small?
(About the segment measurements and X-rays discussion earlier, if the surgeon has those on file from your femurs, I guess you could somehow get an X-ray of your tibias now, and get to these raw numbers to settle any possible remaining uncertainty around your initial T/F ratio?)
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Hello Stand taller! As others have said, thanks for a comprehensive and very interesting diary so far! I especially like your focus on not only the process, but also the "aftermath" and your experience in daily life. It really adds value to this forum to get the emotional, psychosocial and longer-term story relating to having gone through this procedure and moving on from it. Of course also if there are any physical long-term effects to report. Hope you will stick around here as long as you can! And wishing you a continued good recovery of course.
I've been thinking, LLers are maybe the only human beings ever to experience what it's like having a growth spurt after the early 20s, which is kind of mind blowing. Science fiction kind of stuff.
And one thing I found especially interesting in your diary was exactly that, what you said about the strange experience of slowly growing taller and at some point no longer feeling "small" anymore around people, I think this was when you passed 170cm.
So I was wondering, do you think you would have thought differently about your height and size originally, and maybe wouldn't have desired or considered this surgery, if your starting point was at let's say 171-173cm which is slightly above where you stopped feeling small?
(About the segment measurements and X-rays discussion earlier, if the surgeon has those on file from your femurs, I guess you could somehow get an X-ray of your tibias now, and get to these raw numbers to settle any possible remaining uncertainty around your initial T/F ratio?)
Thanks! Most diaries here focus more on the facts and the practical things about LLS, which is great - but almost nobody talks about the emotions and experience after reaching ones new height. This was something I was missing before I did LLS, so hopefully people will enjoy that. Hopefully I will continue sharing my experience in the years to come.
It is correct that passing around 170cm I stopped feeling small, mostly because I was taller than young teenagers. I think this is because I stopped growing at 12-13 years old, and young teenagers have often been my height or even taller. At 177cm there aren't many young teenagers my height, and if they are they are most likely 17-19 years old. I think you pose an interesting question that is hard for me to answer, but I can tell you this. I only have a handful of friends at around 170cm or shorter, and at this point in time I haven't told them about my surgery. But talking to friends who are around my old height, I feel tall and towering - almost powerful when with them. They are truly small from my new perspective, which is a strange new sensation - but I almost feel kind of guilty too at the same time. Probably a guilt that us who have done LLS can only feel having been small, but now normal. I don't think I would feel that way at 170cm.
I have two friend who are around 174-175cm who do know about my LLS, and they are also the ones who understand the most - but also say they wouldn't consider it because their height neurosis is only occasional and when they talk about being "short" it's not wholehearted like us who where really short (169cm and below). It's kind of like a group of friends where everybody isd making 100 - 150k a year, but there is the one friend who only makes around 75k, drives a BMW 3-series and he is considered "poor". Sure he may not be as well of as his friends, like the guy being 175cm not being as tall as the average guy at 178-183cm, but in no was is he poor.
I think if I was around 170cm I probably would consider LLS and maybe even do it, but if I was around 175cm tall I probably wouldn't. I have no desire if being tall, just a desire of not being short. It's kind of like, I have not desire of being rich - but I want to be comfortable and safe. At 177cm I am right below the average male height in my country, taller than around 45-50% of all males and 95-97% of all females basically making me taller than 70-80% of the population. And that is awesome and more than good enough for me.
I feel I've measured my femurs and tibias accurate enough, and feel they look fine. So I don't care enough to even think about it.
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Day 376 (Day 218 Post clicking)
Had my x-rays taken yesterday, here you can seen them:
https://freeimage.host/i/H097cbe
https://freeimage.host/i/H097Esj
https://freeimage.host/i/H097Mqx
According to Dr Becker everything is ACE and I am now past any fear of nonunion, and that the bones are now almost completely healed. This is great news, and means I can now start to jog lightly and eventually run.
Other than that, at my PT we are reaching new milestones in stretching. So much that I have actually felt some light nerve pain in my lower right leg. This is actually a good thing since it is a sign of that the rate we have been stretching lately has increased to a point where my nerves can't "keep up". I feel noticeably better after each session now (I go there three times a week), I am softer and walk more upright after every session.
Last week I also walked 1 km two days, and 1,5 km another day - really pushing my body. Hopefully my progress stays at this pace, or even picks up even more.
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That's great to hear! Let us know how that light jogging going ;)
You felt nerve pain while lengthening as well or only now?
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Thanks for the quick and long answer ST, once again, great diary and looking forward to the continuation.
I think in many western countries, especially less ethnically diverse ones with average male heights around 178-183cm, the 170-175cm range can be a weird one to find oneself in for a guy. It's kind of in between categories or groups. You're just slightly taller than the majority of women, but not necessarily enough to be "significant" or that noticable. It makes your height much more common to see for women than men. And that's before considering certain footwear like high heels. A few people might see you as short in a slightly uncommon way, but I bet most people won't, and rather will see you as "kinda short for a guy I guess but I know quite a few guys like that". Below 170cm of course, things can become different, because as a man being that height will be more and more rare the lower you go, and when you cross past the female average I would say it's more clearly outlier territory with all the disadvantages and challenges that can involve. Seeing men that height is uncommon enough making you simply stand out more. If that makes sense.
At 170-175cm, guys could always move to another country or city where the average height is lower, if that is acceptable and could improve ones life otherwise. Then there would be more guys than women around the height range you find yourself in. Certainly less "drastic" than having LLS, and would have the same effect at least if you only plan to lengthen a more average 5-6cm anyway. But again, below that height range those relocation options are fewer. Heck, the closer you are to 175cm, the more some thick but still normal boots could help out slightly to bump you up on those percentiles if you really feel the need.
Do you know may people around 170cm that seem to be negatively affected by their height? Do you think some of them would consider this surgery if offered it and they knew all you know about it now?
Also, one more thing. It's so interesting to me that you've been this open with both friends and family about this procedure. I guess that means you have good close friends and a loving family, which is always a good thing regardless of who you are what happens in life. Congrats on that. :) Not everyone will (be able to) have that approach and some will go to great lengths to hide and deny having done this, or relocate and change jobs to start afresh. Do you think your friends at 173cm and below have noticed and thought about what has happened with your height? Do you plan on telling them, or only if the ask you about it?
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Good luck on your journey
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Day 391 (Day 233 Post clicking)
I have been super busy past few weeks with work and just everyday life. A huge step forward is me getting back a lot of my stamina and energy levels in general. Before surgery I was used to working 60-80 hour weeks without a problem. After surgery this took a big hit and first now I feel I am able to work 40+ hours without a problem. Of course lengheting and pushing your body with stretching and exercises does take a toll and takes away a lot of that work capacity. But for the first time in long time, I feel that the days are too short rather than I am too tired. I am feeling like my old selv more and more every day.
Physio, stretching and exercising is also going very well, and I feel I am seeing noticeable progress every day. It is still winter and generally hard to walk outdoors here, but for the past few weeks I have walking in my local mall with a shopping cart - doing a total of 1km+ almost every day. The reason I am walking with a shopping cart is to extend my stride as much as possible so I am stretching my hip flexors. Walking with a shopping cart lets me do this much more than waling without one. In total I try to walking around 1 -1,5km every day. That with several sessions with stretching a day and also going to my physiotherapist three times a week has really been improving my form and my gait. I still have a little duck ass, but again that is improving every day. I would say I am about 90% there with my duck ass and my gait being normal.
For the first time in my diary here is a video of me walking. I filmed one two weeks ago, and there is noticeable improvement in just two weeks.
https://files.fm/u/6dnrut47x
As you can see, I still have some duck ass because of tight hip flexors and possibly a tight it-band. My stride is almost normal, but not having full range of motion in my hip joint means I still have some stiffness in my gait as well as some hip sway.
All in all I am pretty happy with my progress lately and hopefully it continues at this pace!
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Congrats on all the good progress.
Did they not do an IT-band release? I thought that was done if you lengthen over 5 cm femurs.
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congrats on your progress!
Two major questions:
1. Did you get an ITB release ?
2. If not, why not?
They offer it now, and almost everyone does either a soft, or proper ITB release.
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Hyperlordosis is not related to itband. Just look up hyperlordosis treatment and you will see
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congrats on your progress!
Two major questions:
1. Did you get an ITB release ?
2. If not, why not?
They offer it now, and almost everyone does either a soft, or proper ITB release.
Thanks!
I wasn't offered it, so I did not get it. It seems like Betz and Becker started doing right after I did my surgery though.
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Hyperlordosis is not related to itband. Just look up hyperlordosis treatment and you will see
You do know that the IT-band connects to the Tensor Faciae Latae, the glutus maximus and the glutus medius. It is all connected dude. Not sure if you have done this surgery and if so did you have issues with tight hip flexors or a tight IT-band? In my case though, all the stretches around these muscles have helped. And even Dr Becker says that an IT-Band release will help a little with duck ass. A tight it band also means tightness in some of the hip flexors and other muscles that affect duck ass. Is a tight IT-band the "main" culprit? No, but it does play a role.
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You do know that the IT-band connects to the Tensor Faciae Latae, the glutus maximus and the glutus medius. It is all connected dude. Not sure if you have done this surgery and if so did you have issues with tight hip flexors or a tight IT-band? In my case though, all the stretches around these muscles have helped. And even Dr Becker says that an IT-Band release will help a little with duck ass. A tight it band also means tightness in some of the hip flexors and other muscles that affect duck ass. Is a tight IT-band the "main" culprit? No, but it does play a role.
Wtf we had a conversation one or two weeks ago in that very same thread :o
Yea it’s interconnected but the it band itself pulls your legs out mainly. The tik tok girl posture aka duckass comes from tight hip flexor and quads because they pull on the front of the pelvis and capsizes it to the front. Weak glutes also make it harder to pull yourself straight. Think of the pelvis as a triangle that flipped over and that’s your main problem and mine too atm
https://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/sport-injuries/back/low-back-pain/hyperlordosis
Almost 12cm without it band release is hard. I think you would benefit from an additional one perhaps.
Also a bit unlucky you were in the last set of patients from Betz that did not get it band release before Becker introduced it.
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Almost unianimously, everyone who has had excellent surgeries from Betz on here, have flown to greece for an iTB release, and have commented on the massive difference and improvement due to the ITB release.
Everyone offers it now, and while stretching will always remain so key, ITB releases are essential once you lengthen higher ammounts. There is just way too much raw data to support this.
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Tight IT bands cause duck ass in the sense that you need to position yourself with your ass out to compensate for them being short to stand up. But its sort of a choice. You can stand with super wide legs without duck ass, or legs close together with duck ass.
Tight hip flexors and quads probably cause duck ass that you dont get to choose. Even if you widen your legs its still there. I havent experienced this yet but I can definitely see this.
So it just depends how you look at it. They both cause it in different ways.
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Is the it band also stretched when doing tibias? In theory it should, since the it band goes through the whole leg right?
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Tight IT bands cause duck ass in the sense that you need to position yourself with your ass out to compensate for them being short to stand up. But its sort of a choice. You can stand with super wide legs without duck ass, or legs close together with duck ass.
Tight hip flexors and quads probably cause duck ass that you dont get to choose. Even if you widen your legs its still there. I havent experienced this yet but I can definitely see this.
So it just depends how you look at it. They both cause it in different ways.
No that‘s not how it works. When your it band is tight you are physically unable to close your legs when having them straight (standing or lying), only when you bend your knees it will be possible. Trust me I was at this point where I couldn‘t close my legs and it‘s not a choice at all.
Duckass that doesn‘t go away no matter what is from quads and hip flexors like you described. And seeing him walk I do think that it band might play a role in his gait especially since he did not get it released.
Is the it band also stretched when doing tibias? In theory it should, since the it band goes through the whole leg right?
No it does not. Tibia will result in foot drop (can‘t put your heel down). And that can also cause backpain similar to duckass but it‘s a different root problem. Wide legs /it band issues is not a thing with tibia
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Bud, Im literally doing the lengthening....I understand how it works. Your ass needs to go out to completely close your legs if you have mild wide legs. It sounds like you had something more severe.
But as I mentioned and we agree on: hip flexors and quads are definitely what causes duck ass in a way where you cant shift your position to fix it.
If you want to solve duck ass while walking normally with legs close together, you really need to solve both hip flexors and IT bands.
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Bud, Im literally doing the lengthening....I understand how it works. Your ass needs to go out to completely close your legs if you have mild wide legs. It sounds like you had something more severe.
But as I mentioned and we agree on: hip flexors and quads are definitely what causes duck ass in a way where you cant shift your position to fix it.
If you want to solve duck ass while walking normally with legs close together, you really need to solve both hip flexors and IT bands.
You specifically didn‘t want to get an It band release right?
Also in my case since at the end of lengthening i have had no wide legs and free range of motion in the lateral movement (crossing my legs no problem etc) but duckass regardless in what position(no difference if i have my legs together or apart… Unless sitting which bends the knees thus shorten the hip flexor and therefore fixing it). It‘s been a bitch to get rid off tbh. Takes much longer than I thought.
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Nah I got the IT soft release. I do get tight IT bands but its manageable so far. I have to work at it though.
Yeah it sounds like the hip flexors and/or quads got you. If you go to one knee and bend backwards, this stretch just doesnt loosen up the flexors anymore? Or is more quads or both?
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Nah I got the IT soft release. I do get tight IT bands but its manageable so far. I have to work at it though.
Yeah it sounds like the hip flexors and/or quads got you. If you go to one knee and bend backwards, this stretch just doesnt loosen up the flexors anymore? Or is more quads or both?
Both for me. And even though i stretch a lot the progress is veeery slow. I hate it. It‘s the biggest factor holding me back.
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Both for me. And even though i stretch a lot the progress is veeery slow. I hate it. It‘s the biggest factor holding me back.
Obviously hypothetical, but if you knew this in advance - would you lengthen less?
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Obviously hypothetical, but if you knew this in advance - would you lengthen less?
Can‘t say for sure. I‘ve seen people that did less and also have it. I think the amount where I wouldn‘t have had it at all would be too little for me to do the surgery in the first place.
The thing is for me it‘s not noticeable with any clothings (it‘s less than stand taller now for example) but even if it‘s slightly there you get backpain when walking for longer. So that‘s the main culprit. If that goes away which I think it will in a few weeks I am pretty good and can call myself recovered for everyday life.
So in the end I am happy with my decisions and wouldn‘t change anything. I am still very early in consolidation.
If for whatever reason it stays for longer, lets say many months or perhaps years then definitely YES. It‘s pretty awful and the backpain is hindering in recovery (could walk much longer but need to quit it soon every single day bc my lower back hurts too much)
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Can‘t say for sure. I‘ve seen people that did less and also have it. I think the amount where I wouldn‘t have had it at all would be too little for me to do the surgery in the first place.
The thing is for me it‘s not noticeable with any clothings (it‘s less than stand taller now for example) but even if it‘s slightly there you get backpain when walking for longer. So that‘s the main culprit. If that goes away which I think it will in a few weeks I am pretty good and can call myself recovered for everyday life.
So in the end I am happy with my decisions and wouldn‘t change anything. I am still very early in consolidation.
If for whatever reason it stays for longer, lets say many months or perhaps years then definitely YES. It‘s pretty awful and the backpain is hindering in recovery (could walk much longer but need to quit it soon every single day bc my lower back hurts too much)
Got it! When did you finish lengthening?
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I'm going to be getting a more agressive ITB release, not quite a full ITB release, but i've asked for deeper cuts and more of them in my ITB band. I've asked for this to be as aggressive as possilble, i don't mind reduced mobility anyway, if it means the ITB bands won't be super, super tight.
Everyone who has lengthened over 7cm has flown to greece to get Giotikas to cut their ITB, and unanimously in 5, 6, 7, diaries there is significant improvement once the ITB is cut.
I get for a weight bearing nail you do not want to do the full release immediately, but imo, i am going to get them to kindly go as aggressive as possible.
Stretching will always remain the most important part no doubt.
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Nah I got the IT soft release. I do get tight IT bands but its manageable so far. I have to work at it though.
Yeah it sounds like the hip flexors and/or quads got you. If you go to one knee and bend backwards, this stretch just doesnt loosen up the flexors anymore? Or is more quads or both?
your progress is stunning,
If you could go back and get a more aggressive soft ITB release, i.e. more cuts, deeper cuts, (not the full ITB mind) would you have considered it?
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Got it! When did you finish lengthening?
2 weeks ago. The other leg a bit over a week ago (fixed small discrepancy at the end).
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2 weeks ago. The other leg a bit over a week ago (fixed small discrepancy at the end).
ha ok, you weren't kidding about being early in consolidation ;D
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Looks like you guys have been at it a little back and forth about IT-band and hip flexors, so I'll try to answer generally. A tight It-band will primarily cause wide legs, and tight hip flexors will primarily cause duck ass. And note that I am writing primarily, and that is because it is all connected and people are different. In my case I did have wide legs up until 5-6cm, but stretching helped me get rid of it almost 100% and it hasn't been an issue since. But that does not mean my it-band has not been tight, closing my legs the last 10-15cm has required effort - but closing them has not been an issue since 6-7cm lengthening.
Somebody wrote that duck ass can be reduced by opening your legs, and I have also experienced this. This is why lately I have been focusing on stretching my hip flexors as much as possible with my legs closed. This had resulted in there almost being no difference in my duck ass while standing wide or closing my legs. So it does seem like most of my limitation in ROM and duckass is now in my hip flexors.
The whole time I have been consulting with Dr Becker and he has always said that an it-band release would help a little bit, but that focusing on stretching hip flexors would be a better use of my resources. He has never recommended me doing the it-band release, but when asked he can do it for 7000 Euro. Considering my progress since I stopped using crutches and especially the past few weeks I honestly think that the days in hospital for surgery, the time it takes to travel back and forth, and the recovery time after - at this point in time I would probably get just a good results doing what I have been doing lately. I'm feeling good progress daily and in the past week all tension in my right it-band is almost gone, but there is still a little left in my left leg. In other words, I am probably just a week or two away from having to use zero effort in closing my legs.
Should I have gotten the it-band release earlier? I am frankly not sure how much it would have helped. Do I feel I should get it now? Not at all, because as I've been saying for weeks. My progress lately has been really good.
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I'm thinking about getting IT-ban release as I feel like my tight it band is a major contributor of my duck ass. Gonna try focusing more on IT.band stretches in the weeks to come, and hopefully I can resolve my tight IT-band with stretching. And before you say "IT-band does not cause duck ass", no.... not alone. I can stand fairly straight with my legs spread a little, but once I close them so my feet are touching my duck ass get much worse. So at least they are interconnected and the tight IT-band makes it worse. Another thing is when I stretch my IT-band I can stand much more upright which in turn allows me to stretch my hip flexors in a whole different way. So there is no doubt in my mind that tight IT-band makes duck ass much worse because it limits how much you can stretch your hip flexors.
If you have personally had these issues and did an IT-band release please share you experience here, and if you didn't do a release - share your story on what worked and how long it took.
Becker can do it for 5000 Euro and two days in hospital. Are there any other alternatives and what would they cost?
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Curious what made you change your mind? Few days ago you seemed pretty against that idea, and also quoted a different price as well... ::)
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Curious what made you change your mind? Few days ago you seemed pretty against that idea, and also quoted a different price as well... ::)
First price I quoted was wrong, I just remembered the wrong amount. I think because I am experiencing such good progress lately, I also feel I haven't had much progress in my IT-band when I started thinking about it. And I actually feel that my IT-band is the one major thing "holding" or will "hold" my further progress back. So instead of hindsight in a few months, I started thinking about maybe doing it now instead of in 3 months.
And also the fact that both people here and my PT have said that duck ass is not because of IT-band I've been like "okay then". But I also see that when I close my legs my duck ass worsens, so obviously they are very much related. So I don't know man... I am not sure why or even what to do....
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First price I quoted was wrong, I just remembered the wrong amount. I think because I am experiencing such good progress lately, I also feel I haven't had much progress in my IT-band when I started thinking about it. And I actually feel that my IT-band is the one major thing "holding" or will "hold" my further progress back. So instead of hindsight in a few months, I started thinking about maybe doing it now instead of in 3 months.
And also the fact that both people here and my PT have said that duck ass is not because of IT-band I've been like "okay then". But I also see that when I close my legs my duck ass worsens, so obviously they are very much related. So I don't know man... I am not sure why or even what to do....
I bet it helps. If you're struggling you might as well.
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5000€ seems very expensive. IT-Band release is a pretty standard surgery, so I would recommend doing it with a standard orthopedic surgeon somewhere else in Germany. You should be able to do it for half the price.
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First price I quoted was wrong, I just remembered the wrong amount. I think because I am experiencing such good progress lately, I also feel I haven't had much progress in my IT-band when I started thinking about it. And I actually feel that my IT-band is the one major thing "holding" or will "hold" my further progress back. So instead of hindsight in a few months, I started thinking about maybe doing it now instead of in 3 months.
And also the fact that both people here and my PT have said that duck ass is not because of IT-band I've been like "okay then". But I also see that when I close my legs my duck ass worsens, so obviously they are very much related. So I don't know man... I am not sure why or even what to do....
It's interesting to go back to the first page of your diary. A couple of people mentioned that 10-11cm is a lot and LegendKiller also talked about his IT band which Betz refused to release and he ended up doing it with someone else.
Are you in the US/EU? If you're not sure, I strongly suggest consulting with another doctor. I'm biased but maybe you can consult (even remotely) with Rozbruch? Will probably be a good investment. I don't have the link but there is a Betz diary/post here about someone who had very tight IT band and hip flexors and Betz refused to do anything and Rozbruch released both.
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It's interesting to go back to the first page of your diary. A couple of people mentioned that 10-11cm is a lot and LegendKiller also talked about his IT band which Betz refused to release and he ended up doing it with someone else.
Are you in the US/EU? If you're not sure, I strongly suggest consulting with another doctor. I'm biased but maybe you can consult (even remotely) with Rozbruch? Will probably be a good investment. I don't have the link but there is a Betz diary/post here about someone who had very tight IT band and hip flexors and Betz refused to do anything and Rozbruch released both.
IT band surgery is very easy most surgeons can do that no need to spent thousands of dollars to travel far away and do it at a place of expensive health care when your local hospital probably has someone do it for you.
Also can you even release hip flexors? I doubt it and my PT told me that‘s one muscle that‘s not operated on. You would need to go through the intestines or from the back to access it right? Both terrible. Maybe endoscopically but even that sounds unrealistic.
First price I quoted was wrong, I just remembered the wrong amount. I think because I am experiencing such good progress lately, I also feel I haven't had much progress in my IT-band when I started thinking about it. And I actually feel that my IT-band is the one major thing "holding" or will "hold" my further progress back. So instead of hindsight in a few months, I started thinking about maybe doing it now instead of in 3 months.
And also the fact that both people here and my PT have said that duck ass is not because of IT-band I've been like "okay then". But I also see that when I close my legs my duck ass worsens, so obviously they are very much related. So I don't know man... I am not sure why or even what to do....
I can only speak from my experience . I had initial IT band release though, if you didn‘t have that you would benefit from it. Maybe try the it band stretch I talked about earlier and holding for 3 minutes per side. 3 reps per side and 3 sessions per day in total. You probably know it anyways but yea.
My duckass is not related to how I have my legs. I close them normally it requires no effort and is like before. Only thing is tight hip flexors but past few days it‘s been getting better. My PT sees progress. I can sleep on my stomach now without pain.
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IT band surgery is very easy most surgeons can do that no need to spent thousands of dollars to travel far away and do it at a place of expensive health care when your local hospital probably has someone do it for you.
Also can you even release hip flexors? I doubt it and my PT told me that‘s one muscle that‘s not operated on. You would need to go through the intestines or from the back to access it right? Both terrible. Maybe endoscopically but even that sounds unrealistic.
I can only speak from my experience . I had initial IT band release though, if you didn‘t have that you would benefit from it. Maybe try the it band stretch I talked about earlier and holding for 3 minutes per side. 3 reps per side and 3 sessions per day in total. You probably know it anyways but yea.
My duckass is not related to how I have my legs. I close them normally it requires no effort and is like before. Only thing is tight hip flexors but past few days it‘s been getting better. My PT sees progress. I can sleep on my stomach now without pain.
What's the IT-band stretch you recommend? I've started doing one now, 3min per side, and been really sore the past few days. So seems like I am working the right area, so I'll increase the reps as the days go. As I do more IT-band stretches I am also reaching new parts of my hip flexors while stretching and they seem to be responding well. So we'll see how the next few weeks go, and I'll make a decision then.
And for those wondering, I am in northern Europe. I would love to do it locally, but traveling to Germany or other places in Europe is just an hour or two on a plane, so that's no stress.
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IT band surgery is very easy most surgeons can do that no need to spent thousands of dollars to travel far away and do it at a place of expensive health care when your local hospital probably has someone do it for you.
Also can you even release hip flexors? I doubt it and my PT told me that‘s one muscle that‘s not operated on. You would need to go through the intestines or from the back to access it right? Both terrible. Maybe endoscopically but even that sounds unrealistic.
Maybe, personally I'm not interested in just having "someone do it for me" but each to his own.
Honestly I'm not 100% sure it was the hip flexors, I can try to ask him ::)
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I have to say I admire your dedication and work ethics and betz and becker are some of the best in the world.
But I am still so shocked you haven't gotten an ITB release:
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I think RB and dreamingcloud were both recently clinically diagnosed to not being able to recover their normal functions unless an ITB release was performed. This is definitely not them feeling bad about wide legs and looking for an easy way out.
Betz would first prescribe several months more of PT, and then proceed to ignore the patient. He has not replied to my first 6-week x-ray email for 6 days.
I believe Betz has good intentions in not wanting to release ITB, since too much release can lead to permanent problems. However, since the band is just a fibrious tissue, it cannot stretch. For some people, their tensor fasciae latae muscle simply cannot stretch for the full length of their lengthened femurs."
dremaingcloud (Feb 2021): http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=66226.msg188865#msg188865
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What's the IT-band stretch you recommend? I've started doing one now, 3min per side, and been really sore the past few days. So seems like I am working the right area, so I'll increase the reps as the days go. As I do more IT-band stretches I am also reaching new parts of my hip flexors while stretching and they seem to be responding well. So we'll see how the next few weeks go, and I'll make a decision then.
And for those wondering, I am in northern Europe. I would love to do it locally, but traveling to Germany or other places in Europe is just an hour or two on a plane, so that's no stress.
You lengthened a huge ammount , wow !
I would honestly say you should speak to a specialist about getting an ITB release.
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What's the IT-band stretch you recommend? I've started doing one now, 3min per side, and been really sore the past few days. So seems like I am working the right area, so I'll increase the reps as the days go. As I do more IT-band stretches I am also reaching new parts of my hip flexors while stretching and they seem to be responding well. So we'll see how the next few weeks go, and I'll make a decision then.
And for those wondering, I am in northern Europe. I would love to do it locally, but traveling to Germany or other places in Europe is just an hour or two on a plane, so that's no stress.
https://imgur.com/a/aI9ZsvF
Do this. Only effective stretch.
If it’s not getting better in a few weeks do the release.
Maybe, personally I'm not interested in just having "someone do it for me" but each to his own.
Honestly I'm not 100% sure it was the hip flexors, I can try to ask him ::)
there are thousands of qualified surgeons on the world, especially for something as easy as it band release (this exists outside of the LL world too btw).
I have to say I admire your dedication and work ethics and betz and becker are some of the best in the world.
But I am still so shocked you haven't gotten an ITB release:
"
I think RB and dreamingcloud were both recently clinically diagnosed to not being able to recover their normal functions unless an ITB release was performed. This is definitely not them feeling bad about wide legs and looking for an easy way out.
Betz would first prescribe several months more of PT, and then proceed to ignore the patient. He has not replied to my first 6-week x-ray email for 6 days.
I believe Betz has good intentions in not wanting to release ITB, since too much release can lead to permanent problems. However, since the band is just a fibrious tissue, it cannot stretch. For some people, their tensor fasciae latae muscle simply cannot stretch for the full length of their lengthened femurs."
dremaingcloud (Feb 2021): http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=66226.msg188865#msg188865
Logged
I am living proof that ITband can be stretched. It may be harder and maybe it was due to the release “helping” but I did fix my related issues and recovered from them with stretching. . The studies that quoted were done on corpses. Nothing comparable to a living organism.
Why I am so sure about it is this:
I had wide legs at 3-4cm couldn‘t close my legs. Then viciously stretched and I could close again. Now my itband have grown to their new length. Pt confirmed that. Your muscles and tendons don‘t magically end too far up after LL. They grow. My walk is pretty good except from slight swaying leftover and some hip flexor related minor duckass. I think in a month or two I will be back to normal except from sports. Becker said 2-3 months post op until normal walking etc and I think that’s accurate.
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Day 430 (Day 272 Post clicking)
Thankfully the forum is back, it must have been gone for almost a month! (anybody knows what happened?)
As for me, I have had great improvements the past month. First of, because the continuation of the work I do with stretching and focusing more on IT-Band - my duckass is almost completely gone now! The pic below is me after stretching here a few days ago, it is kind of hard to spot it.
https://freeimage.host/i/Hhnumk7
As for walking, things have improved day by day. Around 3-4 weeks ago I started walking without a shopping cart at a local mall. Prior to this I was walking 1-1,5km every day with a shopping cart. This allowed me to stretch my stride as much as possbile. The weather is still cold, snowy and icy, so walking outside is still very hard. But for the past 3-4 weeks I have been walking the "route" at this local mall unassisted - just free walking.
At first I got very tired quickly and also sweaty because of the stillness in my hips. Over the past month I can walk further and also more without getting as sweaty. This week I had goal of walking 2km every day (I don't even use a shopping cart while shopping anymore), and here is what I managed.
Monday 2,5km
Tuesday 2,3km
Wednesday 2,7km
Thursday 2,3km
Friday 2,4km
Saturday 2,0km
Sunday 1,3km
In total I have walked 15,5km the past week, averaging 2,214km every day. My gait and stamina are getting better and better every day. Since I am standing a little straighter every day, I am also stretching new sections of my muscles when walking and training a new area every day. So I have been pretty sore around my hip and back the past week. As I now get closer and closer to zero duckass and standing straight I'm guessing that will get better and better every day.
I am almost 100% straight now, and my "only" struggles now is that I walk a little stiff and my left IT-Band is considerably tighter than my right one. So I walk with a slight limp, but that is getting better and better every day. There is also a big difference in stiffness in the morning and evening, where I am a lot stiffer in the morning. A month ago, I was equally stiff regardless of time of day after sitting down for a few minutes.
For this week, my goad is to walk 2,5km every day for a total distance of 17,5km!
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Don't want to be rude or something but the balance between the Tibia and Femur just looks so off. :-\
I wonder how you look in jeans as for jeans you can clearly see where the patella is.
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Don't want to be rude or something but the balance between the Tibia and Femur just looks so off. :-\
I wonder how you look in jeans as for jeans you can clearly see where the patella is.
he already showed a jeans photo and he looks fine
he is 4 inches taller and his life is infinitely improved and you come here and nitpick his long legs for "looking off"
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he already showed a jeans photo and he looks fine
he is 4 inches taller and his life is infinitely improved and you come here and nitpick his long legs for "looking off"
You didn't troll this diary hmm interesting. You could be on Becker's team. I think you're Kanye Western. Whatever happens i will deal with you ;D
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Glad to have you back. I forgot whether you have had an ITB release, given the ammount you lengthened, i am assuming you definitely had one?
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Don't want to be rude or something but the balance between the Tibia and Femur just looks so off. :-\
I wonder how you look in jeans as for jeans you can clearly see where the patella is.
Dude, you can't even see half of my tibias in this photo... furthermore the photo was taken at an angle with a wide angle lens on my iPhone . so the photo is already distorted. Scroll up you''ll see photos of me where you can actually see my whole legs and as people have pointed out, I look completely normal.
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How are you doing buddy? I think a lot of us would really appreciate an update ;)
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Dude, you can't even see half of my tibias in this photo... furthermore the photo was taken at an angle with a wide angle lens on my iPhone . so the photo is already distorted. Scroll up you''ll see photos of me where you can actually see my whole legs and as people have pointed out, I look completely normal.
it look good with jeans
(https://iili.io/HHF9EWg.png)
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I am not trying to brag or tut my own horn here, so again I do apologize if I come across that way. My whole life I have been told positives things about how I look, but that often hasn't matched my experience with women. In my experience only about 1-2 out of ten women have responded as expected, but this also fits well with studies done on the subject. My point here is that if you are an average looking man (which most are by definition) and you struggle with attracting women I truly believe most of than resistance comes from being short. It is too early to tell from personal experience yet, but there are many studies on this. I truly believe if you can get close to average height in your country and have average looks you will dramatically improve your success with women.
Can I get more updates on this? Do you feel like you're getting better results with women?
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You said you measured your tibia and femurs yourself. But I was wondering if you asked your doctor's if they could measure it through the x rays?
Actually if you have the x rays, you can just measure it yourself (doesn't have to be the correct scale) and just divide the two measurements and get an an exact/accurate ratio.
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How are you doing buddy? I think a lot of us would really appreciate an update ;)
I am doing good and better every day, I'll write up an update in a few days with videos and photos of my progress.
Cheers!
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I am doing good and better every day, I'll write up an update in a few days with videos and photos of my progress.
Cheers!
Glad to hear! Can't wait 8)
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it look good with jeans
(https://iili.io/HHF9EWg.png)
Dont wanna sound annoying but I also see the diffrences but if I wouldnt know I prob wont notice. Maybe trying a larger jacket or hoodie could help just not too long because you can tell the torso is smaller but for the amound it still looks fine, and at least you already dared before me so just enjoy the new moments!
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Day 465 (Day 307 Post clicking)
It has now been ten months since I stopped clicking, and being short has quickly become a distant memory. Having been this height for this long and getting better and better every day, my memories of being short is fading.
For those who have read my diary from start to finish know that I have pretty severe duck ass, and also very tight it-band on my left leg. My duck ass is almost completely gone, and my tight right it-band is also almost gone now. This means my gait, once I have stretched and gotten some heat into my body and muscles - is now almost completely normal. My last obstacle is now some hip sway, but this also getting better every day. After stretching today, and walking it is almost not noticeable. I'll probably post a video and photos next week in a post.
All in all, progress has kept at steady pace the past few months - and I am now almost back to normal gait. I have been walking around 10-20km per week, or around 1,5 -3km per day. My issues with stiff muscles, low stamina and having to take pause while walking has almost improved massively. I can now walk around 700-1000m without talking a pause, not becoming sweaty or having a high pulse walking at a decently fast pace. If a walk slower I can easily walk further without any issues. This means, normal walking day to day, doing normal chores like shopping etc is non problematic.
Another issues I have had is after sitting down for anything from 5-30+ minutes and standing up to walk, I get very stiff and have to stretch walk a bit before becoming "normal". Around 3-4 weeks ago, this changed where I would be stiffer in the morning than in the evening. So as the day progressed, the time from sitting to walking "normal" became shorter. The past week I have gotten progressively better where the time from sitting to walking "normal" is not much shorter and almost don't have to do any stretching and I will walk "normal" in just a few steps.
With this progress I am guessing I will be walking 100% normal with no more issues in about two months, or about one year post clicking. If people think that is a very long recovery time, and longer than most here - you are right. I think this is down to the length I went, 11,5cm and also issues with tight it-band and not doing an it-band release. Also my age and my severe duck ass haven't helped. So if you are thinking of doing 11,5cm, it is possible, but it may take longer than the usual one year from surgery to 100% recovery. With that being said, one and half year from surgery to 100% recovery for my self is not bad considering the length I did.
I'll answer this question in this same post:
"Can I get more updates on this? Do you feel like you're getting better results with women?"
I have only been out on the town two times post surgery, new years eve, and yesterday. So I don't have enough experience yet for anything meaningful - but I can still share my anecdotes thus far.
Just quick context for those who haven't read all my posts. I have been told by women (and other men) since I was a teenager that I am attractive, and have mostly dated and had girlfriends in the 7-8/10 range (most taller than my old 165cm height). But with that being said, I have never felt that what I have been told by people about how attractive I am, has matched my actual experience and success with women. This has bothered me and messed with my self image for almost my whole adult life. It is first when I read research about how important height is in attraction things started to make sense. In short, you can easily be a 7-8/10 in the face - but because you are 165cm tall in a nordic country most women won't find you attractive. This perfectly explains the discrepancy of my experience with some women finding me very attractive, but most ignoring me -because those who do don't care about height - but most do.
Now to my actual experience. In the day to day I feel that I am getting much more attention from women in all ages, anything from teenage girls to old women. I am getting much more looks, much more stares and much more eye contact with women. First I thought that women was staring because of my gait, but as this has gotten better and better and now almost normal - the looks and attention has not declined. Just yesterday while out shopping, this woman about my age just kept stating at me. I have also experienced that random women have been acting strange and nervous around me, like at the store or in the shops. I have now learned that this probably means that they find you attractive, kind of like how men act strange and become nervous around pretty women.
I wrote about my experience on new years eve in a post back in January, so read that for the full story. But quick recap, I had two beautiful women being interested in me. I have experienced this before, but it happens like once a fort night - so was not expecting it to happen on my first night out post surgery.
I was at a party yesterday, so my second time out post surgery. At this party all the level of good looking people was very high for both women and men - and some of these are even IG influencers with sizeable followings. I felt the bar was kind of high. I do my self have a sizeable following on SoMe, but my content and what I do is neither looks or fashion. Basically all the women where like an 8 or 9 out of then - so kind of out my league. Early on I got positive looks from two of the women, while the rest where kind of just friendly or I just didn't talk to them. But again, I was not there to pick up women, just to have fun with my friends - so I was just doing my thing and not thinking too much about these women. As we where about to go to town on out way out, one of these girls came over to me, took both of my hands and just started dancing with me - but because my limited range of motion in my hips, I found out that I actually can't dance that well yet. So I tried to dance, but then said "sorry, but I am a little stiff in my hips after a surgery - so I can't dance". Later that night out on the town we danced a little more, before I took of an called it a night.
I know it may not sound like a lot, but having this hot girl with like 40k followers on IG coming over to me twice wanting to dance with out me being the one to initiate - I think that is a good sign. As my friend put it "hot women don't go over to men they don't find attractive and start dancing with them".
As I wrote further up, I've only been out twice post surgery - so there is not enough data here to conclude anything. But in my experience I am now two for in attracting hot women WITHOUT me actually taking the initiative and making a move. When I was short I always had to show personality and confidence and be the one to initiate, but my experience this far is that I an getting more attention and that without having to do anything - which is all kind of new too me.
So I think that even if you have normal looks, but are short. Becoming taller will without a doubt improve your success with women. At the end of the day it is all about numbers and increasing your relative dating pool. At the party yesterday I was a good head to half a head taller than all the women, where as before I would probably been the same height than most and I would therefore automatically be discarded. But now being normal I am not, and no longer limited by that factor - so my relative dating pool has increased immensly.
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Thanks for the detailed response! It's definitely a long road but it's great to see you're still very motivated and keeping at it. Really happy to hear about your progress 8)
Would you say it's mostly walking and stretching so far? Or have you done some strength training as well?
And do you still communicate with Becker?
Can't wait to see the pictures / videos :)
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Day 475 (Day 317 Post clicking)
Things are still moving forward at a decent pace, and my form keeps getting better and better every day.
Here is a video of me walking today:
https://files.fm/u/aj6tez639
Keep in mind that this is right after a hard session at my physiotherapist and being early in the morning. I am usually quite stiff in my muscles after these sessions and I usually need 100-200 meters before my muscles soften up a bit while starting to walk. Either way, my gait is getting better and better using these videos at my PT as reference.
I think I'll post a video of we walking later in the day having warmed up and also with shoes and clothes. As the day progresses my muscles and gait softens up, and walking with shoes also is easier. I have come to point where people don't notice my slight limp from my stiff left IT-band, and after having walked a few hundred meters getting some heat into my body my gait is now almost normal. I have a little hip sway, but watching a video from just two weeks ago, it is reduced a lot.
I stopped using compression stocking yesterday, so day two without them and therefore my muscles are also stiffer than I have been used to. Only reason I have been wearing them is because my muscles feel softer and makes it easier for me to walk. But at some point I have to stop using them, so I am trying for a week to see how it goes.
I am trying to walk 2km every day, and I am still going to my PT three times a week and stretching every day.
I have come to point where walking is no longer a hindrance for doing or joining social events. Was out for hours for a social event on Saturday and walked 3km in total. I feel like my old life is slowly coming back and I have therefore been more and more social with friends, which is nice.
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As a proportion fanatic, I find the proportions off (fems to tibs) but I must admit that it is not nearly as bad as I thought it would look. The walking is still pretty off though and it os bevause of the IT bands which shows by your knee positions
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Thanks for the update and sharing the video!
It'll be interesting to see you walking with clothes on as well, in particular how your femur-tibia proportions looks like. I'm sure it'll look a lot better. Would also appreciate if you can answer my questions from my previous post :)
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As a proportion fanatic, I find the proportions off (fems to tibs) but I must admit that it is not nearly as bad as I thought it would look. The walking is still pretty off though and it os bevause of the IT bands which shows by your knee positions
Was waiting for somebody to comment about that... first off, I was wearing my boxers really high and also my socks very high making my femurs look extra long and my tibias extra short. Secondly, video was taken with a wide angle lens at a low angle - exaggerating this further.
Here is a photo of me with clothes with a normal lens at a normal angle. My friend is 187cm tall.
https://freeimage.host/i/HScZ86N
Here you can see that my knee breaks a little lower than my friend (break in pants), and though my sweater is higher - that is more because I am wearing a small and have folded it at the bottom and friend hasn't. I see what you are seeing regarding the video, but with clothes and normal lenses my porportions looks fine. Are they perfect? No. Are they good enough? Sure. Do I really care? Nope.
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Thanks for the detailed response! It's definitely a long road but it's great to see you're still very motivated and keeping at it. Really happy to hear about your progress 8)
Would you say it's mostly walking and stretching so far? Or have you done some strength training as well?
And do you still communicate with Becker?
Can't wait to see the pictures / videos :)
In my daily routine it is mostly walking and stretching and some strength, but not much - no weights. I haven't spoken to him in probably a month or so, I don't need to send any more x-rays for another year or so. So rest is up to me when it comes to stretching and walking. If I have nay questions he is quick to respond, but at this point I have been recovering for so long I just have to let time pass.
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Was waiting for somebody to comment about that... first off, I was wearing my boxers really high and also my socks very high making my femurs look extra long and my tibias extra short. Secondly, video was taken with a wide angle lens at a low angle - exaggerating this further.
Here is a photo of me with clothes with a normal lens at a normal angle. My friend is 187cm tall.
https://freeimage.host/i/HScZ86N
Here you can see that my knee breaks a little lower than my friend (break in pants), and though my sweater is higher - that is more because I am wearing a small and have folded it at the bottom and friend hasn't. I see what you are seeing regarding the video, but with clothes and normal lenses my porportions looks fine. Are they perfect? No. Are they good enough? Sure. Do I really care? Nope.
I wasnt critisizing you. You did a very big amount and I said that I am a proportion fanatic. In fact, your legs to body ratio even in the vid looks good. With cloths you look normal proportionally but still you can see the effect of the IT bands
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In my daily routine it is mostly walking and stretching and some strength, but not much - no weights. I haven't spoken to him in probably a month or so, I don't need to send any more x-rays for another year or so. So rest is up to me when it comes to stretching and walking. If I have nay questions he is quick to respond, but at this point I have been recovering for so long I just have to let time pass.
Got it! Why no weights for now? You don't want to build more muscle?
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I wasnt critisizing you. You did a very big amount and I said that I am a proportion fanatic. In fact, your legs to body ratio even in the vid looks good. With cloths you look normal proportionally but still you can see the effect of the IT bands
Oh, no I wasn't taking it as critique :) I just want to be clear about how the video distorts what I really look like, hence me uploading that photo where you also think I look normal proportionally.
"but still you can see the effect of the IT bands"
Not sure what you mean by this? Are you talking about how I stand wide with my legs?
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Got it! Why no weights for now? You don't want to build more muscle?
Yes I do, and probably should. But since I did weight bearing I didn't loose much muscle, if any. I weighted 58kgs before surgery, and at most I was 72kgs around Christmas. I am down to 67kgs now. Since I work 70-80 hour weeks I haven't time to both work, walk, stretch, do physio and go to the gym. But I am going to start running this or next week at the gym, and will probably start building muscle.
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Oh, no I wasn't taking it as critique :) I just want to be clear about how the video distorts what I really look like, hence me uploading that photo where you also think I look normal proportionally.
"but still you can see the effect of the IT bands"
Not sure what you mean by this? Are you talking about how I stand wide with my legs?
Yes. They are wide and not straight
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Hey Stand Taller !
Congrats for your surgery ! Hope everything is ok. I would like to know what was your proportions before and after surgery please.
- height
- arm to body ratio
- tibia/femur ratio
- leg to body ratio
Thanks you so much. I am thinking of doing LL with betzinstitute.
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Congrats again ST!
Do you think it was worth it lengthening that much in the end if you’re still not back to normal?
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Hey Stand Taller !
Congrats for your surgery ! Hope everything is ok. I would like to know what was your proportions before and after surgery please.
- height
- arm to body ratio
- tibia/femur ratio
- leg to body ratio
Thanks you so much. I am thinking of doing LL with betzinstitute.
Not sure about all the different ratios, maybe I can try to measure them all one day. But look at the photo further up with me and my physiotherapist. He is 180cm and I am 177cm, I think I look pretty normal next to him.
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Congrats again ST!
Do you think it was worth it lengthening that much in the end if you’re still not back to normal?
Thanks!
Yes I absolutely do! I am getting better every day and I am almost back to normal walking at this point. Next for me is to start running.
Went out with a friend this Friday to this mini-golf bar. I told my friend that it is a fun place because usually you get so socialize with new people when you are waiting for your turn at the holes. So we walk in, go over to the bar where you also get clubs and balls for playing. There are these two girls standing in front of us in line, I notice in the corner of my eye the blond (the other was i brunette) staring at me. Then a few seconds later she says hi and start talking to us. We stand there for a few minutes talking and decide to play our rounds together. This blond keeps ogling me throughout the whole evening and gets more and more flirty, while I am just acting 100% chill and kind or nonchalant. Not really making any effort right.
Later that night we get separated, but before that she ads me on IG. On my way home I ad here back and message here "awake"?, she replies within a minute "jupp". I ask "where did you go"?, she replies "I went home, wanna come over"?
I think hard for a few minutes, because it is now like 03:00 in the morning I and not really wanting to wake up somewhere else that my own bed tomorrow morning, and I finally reply "on my way home in an taxi, but maybe another time" and she writes "too bad, so sad"
This is my third time going out since my surgery, and though three times out is not a very large sample size at all - I am now three for three where women are the ones taking the initiative to interact and talk to me - and this time even invite me over at 03:00. It is not like this hasn't happened to me before, but my experience for more than 25 years interacting with females is that 95/100 times I have to do all the work for any type of success.
Again, the sample size is only three - but the trend is very interesting and my better than I ever expected. Research does show ho important height is for women, but I never ever did expect things to be this day and night compared to pre-surgery.
So no, I have no regrets what so ever - and If this attention from women continues that1s gonna be a lot of fun. Anybody have similar experience post-surgery?
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Holy Crap MAN!!
Doing the surgery on late July with Dr. Becker. After I'm done with mine, tell me where you are, I wanna go out with you to get the gurls!!
Now seriously, I'm so happy for you man. It really take a lot of balls to actually do this , let alone going for 11.5 cm successfully. I really think the bes thing about all of this is not only the heigh gain, but the bulletproof mind that comes with it. If you can do this, you can do anything.
Keep this diary up man!
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Holy Crap MAN!!
Doing the surgery on late July with Dr. Becker. After I'm done with mine, tell me where you are, I wanna go out with you to get the gurls!!
Now seriously, I'm so happy for you man. It really take a lot of balls to actually do this , let alone going for 11.5 cm successfully. I really think the bes thing about all of this is not only the heigh gain, but the bulletproof mind that comes with it. If you can do this, you can do anything.
Keep this diary up man!
Congrats on deciding to do it! What's your starting height and goal? Sure, we can go out!
In all seriousness I feel there is a lack of people sharing their experience with women pre and post surgery. Though this may not be the main reason for people getting this surgery, I think for many it is very important. This is why I am trying my best to share those experiences and will continue to. I am also hoping that other people can share theirs as well. I searched the internet for pre and post stories on how becoming taller has affected peoples success with women and have found little on that subject. Just think about it, every one of us getting this surgery will have a unique experience on how women treat us as a short and a normal or tall person.
From the age of around 13-14 til I was past my mid 30s I have lived as a short man. I have more than two decades of experience and expectations on how to be treated and how successful or not I am with women. To go from that, to being normal height and "suddenly" being treated differently is imo extremely interesting. And I would love to hear about other pre and post surgery experiences.
Yeah, after going through this you do come out the other end with a stronger mind, will and outlook on life. This is the real definition of "no pain, no gain"
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My starting height is 172,5cm with a with an armspan of 178cm. My story is pretty similar to yours. I've never had any issue with women, get to flirt with them or having sex , as long as they are the same height as me. I'm in the medical field, and I guess I do well socio-economically which is even more important for women than height in my opinion. I'm fit and usually around 10% body fat.
Even though sometimes I felt awkward in social setting situations like weddings or clubs when women wear high heels, the last time I felt some kind of height dysphoria was a decade ago, and since I didn´t know there was a ''solution' to my problem, I just forget about and cancelled in my brain. But somehow, the YouTube algorithm showed my a video from Victor (Cyborg 4LIFE) and everything changed. Knowing that there was a solution to my height or lack of Height rather, I just cannot stand the idea of not being my best version of myself in that situation also. And after researching it a lot, I decided to go for it.
I live in the south of Europe, and in my country the average height for women is not high, probably around 162 cm and for men around 176, so being 180cm (+8cm) is the goal. If I feel good and Dr. Becker allows it, I would go to 9cm and for sure not going past 10cm. I will probably talk to Becker about the IT band release, and what he thinks about doing a partial release. I already set up everything (or tried to) to be successful in my journey, already stretching, yoga, not training legs at all... etc but it's going to suck, and I'm mentally prepared for it.
I would love if you can give us some more insight on how the everyday life is during lengthening (walking in your job, if you can use the stairs if you need it, driving etc.)
Thanks brother
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Congrats on deciding to do it! What's your starting height and goal? Sure, we can go out!
In all seriousness I feel there is a lack of people sharing their experience with women pre and post surgery. Though this may not be the main reason for people getting this surgery, I think for many it is very important. This is why I am trying my best to share those experiences and will continue to. I am also hoping that other people can share theirs as well. I searched the internet for pre and post stories on how becoming taller has affected peoples success with women and have found little on that subject. Just think about it, every one of us getting this surgery will have a unique experience on how women treat us as a short and a normal or tall person.
From the age of around 13-14 til I was past my mid 30s I have lived as a short man. I have more than two decades of experience and expectations on how to be treated and how successful or not I am with women. To go from that, to being normal height and "suddenly" being treated differently is imo extremely interesting. And I would love to hear about other pre and post surgery experiences.
Yeah, after going through this you do come out the other end with a stronger mind, will and outlook on life. This is the real definition of "no pain, no gain"
I actually believe dating is the nber 1 reason for most if not all male llers.. I dont inderstand why people are ashamed to admit that they believe (correctly or not) that their height hinders their dating life.
About post op dating life, from the legit diaries I have read, there was a massive improvent with people going from like around your height to 173+ while those going from 175 to 180+ reported modest are even no improvement
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My starting height is 172,5cm with a with an armspan of 178cm. My story is pretty similar to yours. I've never had any issue with women, get to flirt with them or having sxx , as long as they are the same height as me. I'm in the medical field, and I guess I do well socio-economically which is even more important for women than height in my opinion. I'm fit and usually around 10% body fat.
Even though sometimes I felt awkward in social setting situations like weddings or clubs when women wear high heels, the last time I felt some kind of height dysphoria was a decade ago, and since I didn´t know there was a ''solution' to my problem, I just forget about and cancelled in my brain. But somehow, the YouTube algorithm showed my a video from Victor (Cyborg 4LIFE) and everything changed. Knowing that there was a solution to my height or lack of Height rather, I just cannot stand the idea of not being my best version of myself in that situation also. And after researching it a lot, I decided to go for it.
I live in the south of Europe, and in my country the average height for women is not high, probably around 162 cm and for men around 176, so being 180cm (+8cm) is the goal. If I feel good and Dr. Becker allows it, I would go to 9cm and for sure not going past 10cm. I will probably talk to Becker about the IT band release, and what he thinks about doing a partial release. I already set up everything (or tried to) to be successful in my journey, already stretching, yoga, not training legs at all... etc but it's going to suck, and I'm mentally prepared for it.
I would love if you can give us some more insight on how the everyday life is during lengthening (walking in your job, if you can use the stairs if you need it, driving etc.)
Thanks brother
Hit me up on a personal message once you're done reaching your new height and we can go out to bars!
I would say in my teens and into my early 20s I did pretty decent with women, but as I got older I felt things have gotten progressively harder. I have been in pretty much the same shape, and was actually in my best even shape in my lates 20s playing sports at a very high level. Imo opinion I thought also I had matured pretty good looking better in the face in my late 20s than I did in my early 20s. I would still get women as I got even older, but I my experience was that I would have to meet many more women to be able to "find" those I could attract. It would make a lot more sense if as I got older the quality of women got worse. If I was attracting 7s and 8s earlier, but now only attracting 5s and 6s. It wasn't like that though. I could still attract 7s and 8s, but they would just come around less often and it's not like I had better success with 5s or 6s either.
For me it was more like an ON / OFF switch. For every 7 or 8 being interested I would meet 30 7s or 8s who showed no interest. When in my teens I would it would be more like every 7 or 8 being interested I would meet 5 to 10 girls being 7s or 8s who showed no interest. My hypothesis is that younger girls and women aren't that sensitive to height, but as they and the men get older height becomes much more important. If you consider that men on average stop growing around age 21 - 23 that also makes a lot sense.
I have written extensively about my whole journey earlier in this diary. So go back and read it from the beginning for answers to your questions. What I wrote at the time will much more accurate than what I remember now.
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I actually believe dating is the nber 1 reason for most if not all male llers.. I dont inderstand why people are ashamed to admit that they believe (correctly or not) that their height hinders their dating life.
About post op dating life, from the legit diaries I have read, there was a massive improvent with people going from like around your height to 173+ while those going from 175 to 180+ reported modest are even no improvement
Yeah, I also believe that many short men have a goal and dream of reaching a better height so they can be more successful with women. It's a pity that there aren't more people here who want to share their pre and post LLS experience regarding women, dating and attraction.
Makes sense what you are writing. There has been done a lot of research when it comes to height and dating. Once you hit around 177-178cm there is much no to little gain in attraction from height. I think 15/100 will reject men at 177-178cm because at height. At 183-187cm the number is 5/100. At 165cm that rejection number is a massive 85/100 !
Here is a video of me walking today. Not completely warmed up here, but still much better that at my PT. I have a slight limp in my left leg because of tight IT-band, and a little hop sway. But I think with clothes my walk really isn't noticeable unless somebody is looking for an off gait. I will try to film one outdoors with shoes and properly warmed up later this week or next.
https://files.fm/u/ky7pxw9sb
Video is still taken at lower angle, but not with a wide angles lens this time. With clothes I think proportions look normal.
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Seems like your right leg you have restrictions when bending you knee?
Have you tried to do more knee bending exercises?
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Day 490 (Day 332 Post clicking)
Five out of five... but more on that later...
Walking is getting better everyday, and I haven't worn the compression stockings for a few weeks now. Yesterday I walked 8km, which is by far a new record. Less stiffness and almost no duck ass once I stretch and walk for a bit. I'll try to film a new walking video next week. Next month will be my one year post clicking anniversary, so this has been a long ass process, but still worth every mm (as I will get to below).
I've been out twice since my last update, now for a total of five times post surgery. Go read about my last three times, for better context. But long story short, I got approached by at least one women each of those three times out. I have never experienced this three times in a row having gone out for almost two decades. So my fourth time, would challenge this new status quo. Not only would being approached four times in a row while going out be more than the past four years combined pre surgery, I was going out with my very attractive friend who is over 2 meters tall! We've probably been out hundreds of times with each other in the past, so I have a lot of experience being in his shadow. Imagine two friends, one is 165cm tall and the other one more than 2 meters tall going out. It would often go down like this, he got 99-100% of attention of women while walking through clubs and bars, or standing close to the bar - while I got basically 0-1%... but this time was different.
He probably got a little more attention due to his height, but I also got almost the same amount of attention from women - and we both got approached by this group of 5-6 girls. We talked to them some, then continued through the club (a big three floor venue) and got approached by another group of three women. We spent some time talking to them before I saw this smashing hottie, who I decided to approach. She was very open to talking and was giving me all the right signals like leaning in, laughing at my bad jokes and constantly running her hands though her hair. We talked for a while and exchanged snap-chat. On our way out I got approached by one of the girls from the first group and she was like "hey you" and wanted to dance, but because I'm still quite stiff in my hip motion I just kindly rejected and left after talking for a few minutes. Honestly my mind was more on the hottie I exchanged snap-chat with. At this point I'm starting to think that these 11,5cm of gained height really is making a huge difference. Especially the last girl on the dance floor was around 160cm tall, and I have never ever felt so tall around a girl out before - and it was kind of awesome. I was basically a head taller than her, so I'm guessing for that girl as long as she perceives you ass tall it's all good. She's not gonna notice if you are 177cm tall or 185cm tall. All in all another successful night out.
Then for my fifth time out, and honestly I was feeling good now - but at the same time I had a feeling that my streak was gonna come to an end. And things would revert to my normal experience out pre surgery. I mean, how much can height matter right? Well, I a lot and I was not prepared for this night out. Things stated off quite quickly at this popular rooftop bar where I was approached by one of the girls at the table next to us, talked to her for a bit (she seamed really into me, but wasn't the best looking imo) and roamed the bar which was packed and people where dancing all over the place. I am not kidding, I could not walk through the crowd with out some random girls trying to dance with me of wanting to cheers as I walked through with my drink held above the crowd. Seriously it kind of felt surreal and like a vivid dream how women where now looking at me, smiling at me and treating me. And then... I bumped into the two girls from my third night out, but this time the brunette was super into me, dragging me onto the dance floor and holding around me like there was no tomorrow. The blond however, less enthusiastic (probably because she asked me to come over to her place at like 03:00 in the morning last time and I kindly rejected her). So while dancing with them I locked eyes with probably the most beautiful girl I had ever seen. She smiled and I smiled back at her. She then came closer and I was now holding around her and the two other dancing (yeah... never happened before in my life, so I am as baffled as you). Then a friend of the beautiful girl dragged her away (I found her later though and got to talk more in private and we exchanged snap chat). At this point I needed a break and walked inside and was immediately approached by this girl who works at this clothing store I bought some new pants at a few weeks earlier, and she was like "hey you bough those pants from me, I walk at so and so" and I'm like yeah. She introduced me to her friends and we talked for bit as well.
Before leaving this bar/club I was getting some fresh air in a corner when I started talking to these two girls standing next to me. After while one of them was hit by an ice-cube, we looked over and it was the two girls from earlier I was dancing with trowing ice-cubes at these girls I was talking to. Yeah, absurd that grown women (early 20's trowing ice-cubes at other grown women). After this I left to find some other friends at another bar. Honestly, I was overwhelmed by the attention and just positive response from women. I have NEVER EVER experienced this before in my lifetime, and I am also leaving out tons of other smaller interactions from this bar where I spent four hours, and the last hour alone because my friends left for a another venue.
A little later while waiting for my Uber next to this bus stop this cute girl walks by, we locked eyes and smile at each other. As she gets closer she says "hi there handsome, walks up to me and gives me a kiss on the cheek". I don't even have time to react and now I am just smiling and laughing at this wild evening because the whole night has just been absurd. While I am standing there and laughing this other cute girl walks past with her boy friend (him on his phone) and because I'm still reacting to the situation that just happed I have a huge smile as I lock eyes with this girl walking with her boyfriend and she blushes as she smiles back at me. She gives me another look and smile as they walk past and a last spin, look and smile after she walked away.
The night lasted a few more hours, I talked to a few more girls and got more positive responses, but these above where the best ones worth sharing.
The night that I though was going to set the balance back, reset the order in the universe turned out to be the best night out ever regarding responses and interaction from women in my life to this date. Sure I didn't actually hook up or take anybody home with me, but pretty sure I could have done that several times that night if I wanted to. The whole night and all of these encounters is just absurd and is far cry from what I am used to, yeah... not sure what more to say about that. I am surprised, shocked, amazed, glad, overwhelmed and really don't know how to react or what to expect next. Because I sure as hell wasn't expecting this. Almost every girl I talked to, looked at or smiled at gave me a positive response and that is not something I am at all used to.
After my first time out I was careful to jump to any conclusions and even after my fourth time out I was like "yeah, probably just an anomaly and not going to last", but after my fifth time out (and five times is not a big sample size, I will admit that) I feel I have enough datapoints and interactions to confidently says that women find me not just find me a little more attractive now at 177cm vs earlier at 165cm, but a lot more attractive. I honestly feel like I have gone from a 5/10 to a 7,5-8/10, it doesn't make any sense - but at this point the proof is in the pudding. There is a night and day difference pre- to post surgery. I still can't believe it is true, because it really doesn't compute in my head - but my experience doesn't lie either.
Disclaimer:
I hope you guys are liking me sharing my experience with women post surgery and I feel there are very little stories here or online talking about pre- and post surgery experience when it comes to that. I am extremely humbled that I am lucky to experience this now, and I am in no way trying to brag, but rather just tell it as it is. Share my experiences as I experience them. So I do apologize if I come off as trying to brag in any way, because that is truly not my intention. Lastly I would love to hear other peoples experience post surgery with women and dating.
//Standtaller
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Congrats! You must also be very attractive facially because just not being short or tall is not enough to gain this attention. Your story is pretty logical imo. You went from a "bad height" (165cm is short everywhere besides asia maybe which means that your looks werent even taken into consideration because you werent even on the radar) to a normal height where you are now on the radar and thus women actually pay attention to your looks. Would it be the same if you ended up 176 or 175? Imo yes but who knows :)
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Congrats! You must also be very attractive facially because just not being short or tall is not enough to gain this attention. Your story is pretty logical imo. You went from a "bad height" (165cm is short everywhere besides asia maybe which means that your looks werent even taken into consideration because you werent even on the radar) to a normal height where you are now on the radar and thus women actually pay attention to your looks. Would it be the same if you ended up 176 or 175? Imo yes but who knows :)
Yeah, when you put it that way it kind of makes sense! I also think that (studies also show this) my old height was just really bad, and around the average height for women in my country, but just being half a head to a head taller than most women drastically changes the whole dynamic. I was hoping and expecting a significant change pre- to post surgery, but this is just ridiculous. I was telling my brother about my fifth night out, and he was like "yeah, that's pretty much my experience when out". He is a very handsome dude (or I have been told my whole life from women) and is 184cm tall, and gets tons of attention from women. Both my parents are very good looking, and so are my sisters. So kind of makes sense that I may have inherited some of those looks...
But as I've written several times earlier, my looks have always been hard to judge. On one hand I have been told multiple times earlier that I do look good, and all my girlfriends have been 7-8/10. On the other hand, I have felt invisible to most women and been rejected a lot and always had to work hard to attract hot women.
Yeah, I don't think there would have been much difference if I stopped at 175cm or 176cm, but at the same time with thicker shoes soles I am basically the same height as my friends who are 180cm - and that feels very nice.
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But as I've written several times earlier, my looks have always been hard to judge. On one hand I have been told multiple times earlier that I do look good, and all my girlfriends have been 7-8/10. On the other hand, I have felt invisible to most women and been rejected a lot and always had to work hard to attract hot women.
Again, this is because apperantly you are good looking, but because of your previous height you didn't pass the height threshold. This is because height is not a charateristic that works like "the more the better" but more like "need to be atleast x tall". This also means imo that if you were to grow magically another 8 cm, the impact wouldnt be nearly as big as now as you already are over the threshold for the majority of women ( which according to studies is around 175cms which is like 70%.. before your height was ok for like 10-15%)
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Yeah, when you put it that way it kind of makes sense! I also think that (studies also show this) my old height was just really bad, and around the average height for women in my country, but just being half a head to a head taller than most women drastically changes the whole dynamic. I was hoping and expecting a significant change pre- to post surgery, but this is just ridiculous. I was telling my brother about my fifth night out, and he was like "yeah, that's pretty much my experience when out". He is a very handsome dude (or I have been told my whole life from women) and is 184cm tall, and gets tons of attention from women. Both my parents are very good looking, and so are my sisters. So kind of makes sense that I may have inherited some of those looks...
But as I've written several times earlier, my looks have always been hard to judge. On one hand I have been told multiple times earlier that I do look good, and all my girlfriends have been 7-8/10. On the other hand, I have felt invisible to most women and been rejected a lot and always had to work hard to attract hot women.
Yeah, I don't think there would have been much difference if I stopped at 175cm or 176cm, but at the same time with thicker shoes soles I am basically the same height as my friends who are 180cm - and that feels very nice.
Thanks for keeping us updated and reporting about your experiences with clubbing and girls. Have you met any girls who knew your former height by any chance yet? How were the reactions? Did anybody not notice?
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Today is the first day of the rest of my life. After first finding out about this procedure back in 2016, I knew this was something I wanted to do. But like other things "life just happened" and time passed by. And then there is the whole saving up the funds that takes some time. Here we are though, six years later and I am about to change my life forever.
I currently stand at 165cm tall, and my X-rays look very good. If possible we will 11-12cm. If everything works out fine, and my body copes with lengthening well I may stand at as much as 176-177cm tall in four to five months. Wish me luck!
I'm now just sitting here waiting for Dr Betz to bring me into the surgery room.
If you have recent imaging data please put it at this thread.
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At risk of repeating myself a bit – Very nice to read these kinds of updates with lots of interesting details, thanks again for sharing. Makes your diary unique and more informative holistically speaking than many others that often fade out, leaving readers wondering if something bad happened or if the whole endeavor didn't really change their lives that much after all – a bit like how people's happiness levels tend to reset back to baseline eventually even after winning a lot of money. Keep these reports coming!
You described and compared pre- and post-lengthening nights out, and also included a related anecdote from your taller brother about how it usually is for him. From reading your diary you seem to me like a quite social and outgoing guy that knows a lot of people, so then I was wondering, what is your impression of "regular short" guys in your circle when it comes to dating and nightlife success, if you know some? I'm thinking of someone around 5'7" and 5'8". Do you think their challenges are similar to the ones you experienced at 5'5", if they're not considered tall enough by most women?
Would also be interested to know what those guys reactions have been to seeing your new height if they already knew you and your height before the lengthening (I think there's no way they wouldn't notice someone that used to be shorter than them, which is more or less rare, no longer being so)!
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Any update?
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Day 524 (Day 366 Post clicking)
Yesterday was one year since I stopped clicking and reached my new length of 177cm. I say length and not height because of my severe duck ass I wasn't actually standing straight until recently. In the last year I have come a long way. One year ago I had really bad duckass, and now I barely have any at all. When I wear clothes it is virtually invisible. I still stretch every day and go to my physiotherapist three times a week for stretching. Every day I get a little bit better, walk a little more normal and soften up just a little bit. Long story short, I am still not 100% and to be honest that may take another year. But I am at a place where I can function 95% normal after I have stretched and walked for a bit so my muscles soften up. I have been out drinking basically twice a week since mid-May, and these nights I walk somewhere between 3-7 km. I also started running about three weeks ago, and I can now run 500m in uneven terrain at a decent pace without having to stop for breaks. A week ago I started timing my runs and I am improving my time every day now. Some people notice my slight limp (most people don't), which is much more apparent after sitting for a while. Sitting in a normal chair or car is the worst, because this is the scenario where my muscles stiffen up the most. This is basically the last frontier I have to overcome before I am 100%. It may take 3 months or it may take a year. But at this point I am functioning so well it really doesn't matter much. I am still able to do basically whatever I want now.
This journey has taken much longer than I thought, but I also lengthened a lot more than most here. Can't remember reading a diary where somebody lengthened more than me to be honest. Even if it takes another year for me to be 100% back to normal it will still be worth it imo. I am improving every day, so there really isn't much to look back at that I regret. As I have said earlier, my height dysphoria is 100% cured and have stopped comparing myself to others, and my brain seems to have almost adapted to my new height 100%. I still struggle sometimes and think people are taller than me, when they are actually shorter. But this seems to when I am sitting down. Around a year ago, I struggled gauging peoples height when standing, but not anymore. It is funny how our brains adapt.
As I wrote I have been out twice every weekend since the middle of May, and much of my experience with women has continued more of less in the same fashion. Some days are of course better than other days, but over all my new positive experiences have continued. I have on two more occasions been called handsome by random women without me asking or that even being a topic. I have also been approached by women at least once every night when I go out. And women are still very open to talk or dance when I approach them. I get a lot more looks from women and even got checked out by some famous influencer two weeks ago. Yesterday I locked eyes with a pop star at my local Sushi place, and when she looked away she smiled. So yeah, pretty much an insane improvement from what attention or response I got from women when I was short. As I've said earlier, I did pretty decent with women earlier - but how I am treated and how women respond now is on a totally different level. Since the middle of May I have probably approached 50-60 women, and all but three gave me a negative or neutral response. And I found out the one of them actually had a boyfriend. I estimate that most women weren't interested in talking to me when I was short, and most responses where neutral and maybe 10-15% where positive. So I am experiencing a huge improvement, I am looking forward to every weekend now so I can talk to and meet more girls so I can practice talking with girls to push new boundaries. I have noticed that I was so used to having to work for their attention that this low level of resistance from women is totally setting me of.
I was at concert last Friday and this group of hot girls where standing close to us. So I go over and cheers with all of them. And then go back to my group of friends. Then all of sudden this group of girls are now right next to us and the one I like is shoulder to should with me, they obviously moved closer to us. In my mind I am like, it shouldn't be this easy and has never been this easy so I honestly choke and don't know what to do. They hang around for a while, but then leave and I realize I missed my window. The rest of the evening I am kind of mad because she was really hot and I just didn't do anything. I think I am still in shock from all of this, and with time I will get more confident just go with the flow more. All of this is just so strange, new, exciting, fun and scary all at the same time.
The day after on Saturday me and a friend go out and these two girls come over, one in a tight dress (not the prettiest, but okay) asks if she can share my chair. I let her sit almost on top of me, and immediately she starts touching my and caressing my chin. She is very flirtatious and very into me and since she was like a 5-6/10 I am able to play it 100% cool and not like an idiot the day before. But at the same time I keep looking over to my friend laughing because I have never experienced anything like this before. I used to think women didn't ever or very seldom approached men. After having around 13-14 nights out under my belt as a normal height male, I can safely say women do absolutely approach men. And some of them make it so easy. Yeah, this is a completely new reality for me.
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Its mind blowing that you managed to recover as well as you did after doing 11.5 cm. Thats just beastly, major props to you.
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Hey man, I really appreciate your honesty on the matter, and I relate to a lot of what you wrote.
It's a really long and hard process, and you motivate me to not give up! Hopefully, I will get the similar results!
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Hey man !
I have a consultation with Becker in a month. You did 11,5 cm only in the femurs ? After a year or more, is everything alright ? (since there is this idea that 8cm is a max treshhold). I am 164 so almost your initial height, getting around 175 is a big dream for me.
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Hey man ! So I just finished reading all of your Diary, sorry for my last post which asked questions about things that are clearly explained.
I wanted to tell you that you Diary has convinced me that I want this surgery, now without a doubt. I am in a fairly similar situation : 164cm, actually good looking /have been told and I do feel it when I see myself in the mirror), but not very succesfull with women (less than you, cause I'm probably not that good looking but also cause my height dysphoria makes me shy around people).
I'll have my first consultation with Becker on August and hoping to do the surgery on January 2024, which would make it exactly two years after you.
I also have a kind of interesting fact to share with everyone : I have two nationalities and have been living between two countries all my life. On of them is a rich European Country, the one other a fairly powerfull latino-american one. I am much more, much more succesfull with women in the latino-american one, where I am short but still on the extreme lower end of what is kind of normal ; in the European one I am clearly on the very short side. So in latin america, I've been with women taller than me that are less exigent thant same height girls in Europe ; I think being average in a country makes your body acceptable even if you're short.
So, two years after your surgery, do you have any advise ? Any complications ? Any regrets ? I am looking forward for 10-11 cm, so I get 174-175cm.
Thank you again for your story, it made all the difference for me and now I know I will do this for sure.
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Any updates? Have you considered getting your ITB released to improve your gait and recovery?
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Sorry for being absent for such a long time, but been super busy with work, with enjoying the summer and I've also been sick the past few weeks. So this won't be a very detailed update, hopefully I'll write one up soon.
As I said I've been busy with work and enjoying the summer. I've been out a lot at bars and night clubs on the weekend and the benefits of my now normal stature hasn't slowed down. As I've written in several posts here since May, I've gotten much more positive attention and positive responses from women after reaching my new height. I went from basically never being approached by women, to being approached once every weekend when I go out.
After a little stretching and getting some heat into my body my gait is pretty much normal these days. I'm still a little stiff after sitting for a while or driving a car. But once I get going I have no problem walking pretty much unlimited.
My height neurosis is basically 100% gone, and I seldom think about my height any more on a day to day basis. I guess that is what happens when you go from being well below average to basically average height. When I went to parties in the past I would always be the shortest male, and also shorter than most women. Now I am usually smack in the middle when it comes to men, and more than not I am actually a little above average. Seems like those studies about height with data from self reporting isn't that accurate. Either way, I am never the shortest male anymore at social gatherings - not even close. And I rarely meet women who are taller than me. And very few are even my height. So yeah, I just feel like a normal adult - which is great.
Here is a photo of me and a friend this summer out drinking. I am the one on the left, and he is 180cm tall.
https://freeimage.host/i/Hy6KKI2
Hopefully I'll write up a bigger update with video of me walking sooner than later.
//Stand Taller
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Sorry for being absent for such a long time, but been super busy with work, with enjoying the summer and I've also been sick the past few weeks. So this won't be a very detailed update, hopefully I'll write one up soon.
As I said I've been busy with work and enjoying the summer. I've been out a lot at bars and night clubs on the weekend and the benefits of my now normal stature hasn't slowed down. As I've written in several posts here since May, I've gotten much more positive attention and positive responses from women after reaching my new height. I went from basically never being approached by women, to being approached once every weekend when I go out.
After a little stretching and getting some heat into my body my gait is pretty much normal these days. I'm still a little stiff after sitting for a while or driving a car. But once I get going I have no problem walking pretty much unlimited.
My height neurosis is basically 100% gone, and I seldom think about my height any more on a day to day basis. I guess that is what happens when you go from being well below average to basically average height. When I went to parties in the past I would always be the shortest male, and also shorter than most women. Now I am usually smack in the middle when it comes to men, and more than not I am actually a little above average. Seems like those studies about height with data from self reporting isn't that accurate. Either way, I am never the shortest male anymore at social gatherings - not even close. And I rarely meet women who are taller than me. And very few are even my height. So yeah, I just feel like a normal adult - which is great.
Here is a photo of me and a friend this summer out drinking. I am the one on the left, and he is 180cm tall.
https://freeimage.host/i/Hy6KKI2
Hopefully I'll write up a bigger update with video of me walking sooner than later.
//Stand Taller
Good to hear. How is your gait now?
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In what country do you live? If you prefer not to say, could you atleast say the region? (Central eu, nord eu etc...)
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Good to hear. How is your gait now?
My gait is good after stretching and warming up.
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In what country do you live? If you prefer not to say, could you atleast say the region? (Central eu, nord eu etc...)
I live in northern Europe. I don't want to be more specific than that.
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I live in northern Europe. I don't want to be more specific than that.
Then is is pretty nice to know that being 177cms tall you are a little above average even in Northern EU
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Good to hear you're feeling better. When you get approached when going out, has it so far led to something more, like dates or one night stands, that you'd assume you would not have gotten at your natural height? Sorry if that's a bit of a direct question but we all know this stuff is the reason many consider this whole thing.
And flirting and having some casual fun is one thing but are you worried at all about any potential long-term partners finding out about your old height by let's say seeing old photos, getting to know your friends and family, and getting to know about this procedure, and then getting second thoughts or somehow seeing it as a dealbreaker? You could say if they did they're not the right one for you anyway, but the same kind of goes for someone rejecting a guy for his height. I guess mathematically speaking you're "in the green" as long as the percentage of women who are not fine with a partner doing LL doesn't outnumber the ones who would have rejected a guy for being your natural height before.
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Good to hear you're feeling better. When you get approached when going out, has it so far led to something more, like dates or one night stands, that you'd assume you would not have gotten at your natural height? Sorry if that's a bit of a direct question but we all know this stuff is the reason many consider this whole thing.
And flirting and having some casual fun is one thing but are you worried at all about any potential long-term partners finding out about your old height by let's say seeing old photos, getting to know your friends and family, and getting to know about this procedure, and then getting second thoughts or somehow seeing it as a dealbreaker? You could say if they did they're not the right one for you anyway, but the same kind of goes for someone rejecting a guy for his height. I guess mathematically speaking you're "in the green" as long as the percentage of women who are not fine with a partner doing LL doesn't outnumber the ones who would have rejected a guy for being your natural height before.
Sorry for replying late, but just been busy with life and like many others after getting this surgery you slowly get back into life - you really do forget about you "old" life. It strange, but at the same time very true. I will try to be more active here, writing more posts, sharing more pics and videos.
I still have a tight IT-band on my left leg, but it is getting a little better every day. It's tight, bit nothing that bothers me or hinders me on the daily. It is worse after after driving, but even this has gotten better lately. Since my last post I had a week holiday where I walked 50km in seven days, so walking after my muscles get warm isn't an issue any more. I've stopped doing daily stretching, but I still do physiotherapy three times a week.
I think most men do this surgery because they feel, or are small. Which in return has made dating and meeting women hard. To be honest, this was one of the reasons I did it, but not the main reason. But if I knew how much more attention and respect from women I would get, I would have done this A LOT EARLIER in life. I have gotten more numbers, more snapchats, more IGs, more hookups, more invites and more dates in the past four months - than the past ten years combined. Not kidding, I honestly feel like I've joined the "chad" club after reaching normal height. I've gotten more compliments from women the past four months than my entire life. Compliments like "you're handsome", "you're good looking", "you're hot", "do you do onlyfans?", some of these compliments I've never ever gotten before in my life. I can now accept that I am good looking, after hearing it many times from women the past four months. I don't say this to brag, because before surgery I was actually in better shape and more defined than now, so better looking before. But that didn't mean sh** to most women, because if you are not above the height threshold, you're basically invisible.
To me all of this is still new and very absurd. I am just not, or may ever get used to being able to walk up to any girl, starting a conversation and not once being rejected, most times getting her Snap or number. All of this is such a big contrast to how things where before. Last weekend three women approached me, I would be lucky if that happened in a period of three years at my old height. In the past weeks one girl stored her number in my phone as Wifey and the other one as Bby - not kidding, and these where solid 8-9/10.
So if you are remotely good looking, or just average. I truly believe you will dramatically improve your dating and love life going from short to around average. If you already are around average, I don't believe becoming very tall will dramatically improve you success with women.
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It seems like your life is going pretty well after 10 inches on your femurs. As for your experiences with girls, I'm happy for you man, it's true that being at a "normal" height you get more attention and respect from girls. Even if you're 5'10 and handsome you can tower over a 6'6 guy. Congratulations man, I am happy and at the same time excited to read these types of publications.
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Glad to see you are doing good. Can you send a link to the yt interview with Cyborg? I dont find it or at least your name
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I have gotten more numbers, more snapchats, more IGs, more hookups, more invites and more dates in the past four months - than the past ten years combined.
Thanks for the update! Very interesting again. By hookups I assume you mean one night stands? I've always wondered if a girl would notice or comment on leg length when seeing someone having had LL nked especially if lengthened over a certain limit where it would be harder to deny. Post-LL proportions can be normalized with clothing, but at that point it's all in the open. Not saying you necessarily are in that category despite lengthening more than average.
Given all the newfound attention from and involvement with women you're describing I would love if you could shed some light on this part of my previous post:
Are you worried at all about any potential long-term partners finding out about your old height by let's say seeing old photos (on social media for instance), by getting to know your friends and family, and getting to know about you having this procedure, and then getting second thoughts or somehow thinking a new partner having LL surgery as some kind of a dealbreaker? Or are you totally open about your old and new height with your dates?
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Thanks for the update! Very interesting again. By hookups I assume you mean one night stands? I've always wondered if a girl would notice or comment on leg length when seeing someone having had LL nked especially if lengthened over a certain limit where it would be harder to deny. Post-LL proportions can be normalized with clothing, but at that point it's all in the open. Not saying you necessarily are in that category despite lengthening more than average.
Given all the newfound attention from and involvement with women you're describing I would love if you could shed some light on this part of my previous post:
Are you worried at all about any potential long-term partners finding out about your old height by let's say seeing old photos (on social media for instance), by getting to know your friends and family, and getting to know about you having this procedure, and then getting second thoughts or somehow thinking a new partner having LL surgery as some kind of a dealbreaker? Or are you totally open about your old and new height with your dates?
Yes by hookups i mean one night stands, or just women in general being more keen to hook up. I've been invited home with women I met out where I have said no. One girl I met out we got separated, I then texted here and she replied "went home, wanna come over"? Another girl approached me when out and asked "can I sit here, pointed a my lap and sat down on my lap". She was super keen and had that "f*** me" look on her face. So theese where guaranteed hookups, but where I didn't follow through so didn't end up in one night stands.
As for proportions, people are too busy thinking about them selves to really care about anybody else. Seriously, most people are blind about the "flaws" of others. I have friends and acquaintance who walk funny and have strange proportions, and people have never noticed or ever commented on it. For us who are in this surgery and leg length space, we are super aware of it - but for everybody else, they don't have the slightest clue.
No I am not worried about a potential partner finding out, depending on the person I might or may not tell them. Don't think it will actually matter too a woman after you've established a proper relationship. I mean most women don't actually consciously care about height, most women just aren't attracted to short men sub-consciously. For us men, we can easily rate women on a 1-10 scale, with great accuracy. Women on the other hand put men into three categories, "not attractive", "attractive" and "very attractive" - and height plays a HUGE role here. Hence my experience.
At my old height most women put me in the category "not attractive", explaining my experience with women for 20-25 years. And now, because I am tall enough, most women find me either "attractive" or "very attractive". I've literally had women tell me "I am hot" or "I am very handsome" more times the last four months than the previous 25 years combined. It's crazy, but is also clearly shows how women rate and find me attractive.
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Yes by hookups i mean one night stands, or just women in general being more keen to hook up. I've been invited home with women I met out where I have said no. One girl I met out we got separated, I then texted here and she replied "went home, wanna come over"? Another girl approached me when out and asked "can I sit here, pointed a my lap and sat down on my lap". She was super keen and had that "f*** me" look on her face. So theese where guaranteed hookups, but where I didn't follow through so didn't end up in one night stands.
Which country do you live in, if I may ask?
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Yes, with respect, what country are you from that women are so slutty?
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At my old height most women put me in the category "not attractive", explaining my experience with women for 20-25 years. And now, because I am tall enough, most women find me either "attractive" or "very attractive".
if you are not above the height threshold, you're basically invisible.
Curious, around what male height do you suspect this threshold is, in your part of the world? For instance based on your own recent experience with getting taller, or what you have observed among peers.
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Yes, with respect, what country are you from that women are so slutty?
I live in northern Europe, but I don't want to be more specific than that. I wouldn't say women are slutty at all, to the contrary. I have not experienced anything like this in the previous 25 years of my life. Before all of this, I had once been called handsome or hot directly to my face. And maybe I've gotten a handful of you're good looking. The women haven't changed, only my height. But it is super interesting how much those 11,5cm have changed my life.
Curious, around what male height do you suspect this threshold is, in your part of the world? For instance based on your own recent experience with getting taller, or what you have observed among peers.
In my part of the world I think being around 1-2cm +/- the average height puts me into the normal category. I think that also would apply in other countries and parts of the world. But I may be wrong, because I've learnt in the past four months that most women (feels crazy to even write this) now find me attractive. So for me with my looks, getting close to average height has been key. So it is hard for me to speak for the average looking dude.
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I live in northern Europe, but I don't want to be more specific than that. I wouldn't say women are slutty at all, to the contrary. I have not experienced anything like this in the previous 25 years of my life. Before all of this, I had once been called handsome or hot directly to my face. And maybe I've gotten a handful of you're good looking. The women haven't changed, only my height. But it is super interesting how much those 11,5cm have changed my life.
In my part of the world I think being around 1-2cm +/- the average height puts me into the normal category. I think that also would apply in other countries and parts of the world. But I may be wrong, because I've learnt in the past four months that most women (feels crazy to even write this) now find me attractive. So for me with my looks, getting close to average height has been key. So it is hard for me to speak for the average looking dude.
Please don't take all our women. Let's share a few. 8)
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In my part of the world I think being around 1-2cm +/- the average height puts me into the normal category. I think that also would apply in other countries and parts of the world. But I may be wrong, because I've learnt in the past four months that most women (feels crazy to even write this) now find me attractive. So for me with my looks, getting close to average height has been key. So it is hard for me to speak for the average looking dude.
When now being close to the average I get that, since you're definitely no longer short, but you said here earlier "if you are not above the height threshold, you're basically invisible", and I was wondering what your thoughts are on how tall a guy would have to be to not be invisible where you are, assuming above average looks. At 170? 173? 175?
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I live in northern Europe, but I don't want to be more specific than that. I wouldn't say women are slutty at all, to the contrary. I have not experienced anything like this in the previous 25 years of my life. Before all of this, I had once been called handsome or hot directly to my face. And maybe I've gotten a handful of you're good looking. The women haven't changed, only my height. But it is super interesting how much those 11,5cm have changed my life.
In my part of the world I think being around 1-2cm +/- the average height puts me into the normal category. I think that also would apply in other countries and parts of the world. But I may be wrong, because I've learnt in the past four months that most women (feels crazy to even write this) now find me attractive. So for me with my looks, getting close to average height has been key. So it is hard for me to speak for the average looking dude.
It is incredible what 11 cm can do... imagine 15-16, when it comes to height it is inevitable to mentalize a number, especially with women, when you are less than 5'9 you are invisible but if you say 6'0 or you are still more explicit and says one hundred and eighty-three centimeters automatically the treatment towards the person changes, absurd and incredible at the same time as the focus on height is led by a simple number.
By the way, are you planning a second surgery? 11.5cm on your femurs is incredible but the femur-tibia relationship is uneven and can cause future discomfort. A user from the old forum called "Tall" made 11 cm in femurs with Betz just like you and to avoid possible signs of arthritis he underwent a second surgery of 6 cm in tibia
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Thanks for your diary, Stand Taller. It is the best one I've read.
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When now being close to the average I get that, since you're definitely no longer short, but you said here earlier "if you are not above the height threshold, you're basically invisible", and I was wondering what your thoughts are on how tall a guy would have to be to not be invisible where you are, assuming above average looks. At 170? 173? 175?
I've got a few updates on my experience with women and some of your questions. I was back in my home town the past weekend, and had some very interesting and insane experiences. I was also thinking a lot about the "threshold" question some of you guys had.
Day 1
I met up with a few friends I've known for 25 years for a few beers. Saw then like two years ago, and I was curious if they would notice my height at all. Both are pretty tall at around 185-186cm. After catching up for a few hours we parted ways, and there wasn't even the slightest hint of my height or any talk around that subject at all. So far, only my friends who where taller than me at my old height are the only people who have noticed. Later that nigh I met up with another friend who is around 172-173cm. So taller than my old height, and notably shorter than me now. I've known him for a good 6-7 years, but wouldn't say we're close and only really meet up for beers now and then. He didn't either mention my height.
But heres comes the part you guys may be interested in, because my friend is very handsome. Like a proper chad, and at the we went out to three (three!) girls approached him at once. Granted, all of these girls where friends. But it was so funny and interesting to observe all of these women giving clear choosing signals, and being very giggly as such. So for very handsome men, like 9-10/10 on the looks scale. I think being a 172-173cm may be the threshold. I've had a few friends who are at this height that pull a lot of women, but I think the key here is a very handsome face. For my self, I don't think I would have the same amount of success as I have now "only" being 172-173cm.
As the bar got more and more crowded that night, more and more people where walking and passing our table. I was at this point sitting on a typical bar stool, so sitting quite heigh. As women walk by, stoped a few and talked to others. Then this one lady, around my age but still very hot. After like saying hi and exchanging a few words just starts making out with me! We make out for a few minutes and then she goes of onto the dance floor. In shock I turn to my friends are equally shocked. JUST TO BE CLEAR, I have never had anything like this happen to me in my life! What an insane experience! Later that night I talked to another random girl in the bar, she was super hot and 23 years old. When her friend came over she introduced me as "this cute guy from so and so". Yeah, that has also never happened to me before.
My thoughts on height threshold and attention from women:
From what I know about looks, the looks scale, both from research and personal experience. I would maybe break it down like this (below). And just be aware, this is only my personal opinion, but this is a subject I have "researched" for maybe around ten years at this point. We are few friends who are very interested in this topic and have talked about this for hundreds of hours. And have tried to look at this as objective as possbile. And me having personal experience being 165cm and now 177cm, it does give me unique insight. This insight is also collaborated with one of my best friends, who know all about my surgery and we've been out tons of times before and now after my surgery (more on that on day two).
This scale is for northern Europe, and has to be adjusted for your local region. The basis of this scale is being "visible" to most women, where the default male experience is being "invisible" to most women. From what I understand, the average looking male normally doesn't have mostly positive experience cold approaching women at bars and clubs (let me know if I am wrong about this). This is my personal experience being about an 8/10 in the face, but 165cm tall.
SCALE FOR "Mostly positive attention from women"
9+/10 looks. 172-173cm threshold (Super Chad)
8//10 looks. 175-177cm threshold (Chad)
7/10 looks. 180-182cm (Chad lite)
6/10 looks. 187-189cm threshold (above average looks)
5/10 looks. 190cm+ (average looking dude, vast majority of men fall into this category)
Being below average looks, I think that height absolutely helps. But you still won't get mostly positive attention from women.
Day 2
Met up with a friend who is really into pick-up artist stuff (something I really don't buy into, just for context). I think height and looks is key, and game just being basically "don't fk up and you're good". My friend, let's call him Mr Pickup is around 187cm tall and about average looking, and my other friend is 200cm tall and is a Chad lite. At this bar we approached these three women and sit down with them. The dark haired girl is short, while the two other are tall. The blond being around 180cm and the brunette being 183cm tall. So I'm thinking that the two tall girls are a no go. But as we move to another bar with these girls (all are 25 years old) I'm vibing with the brunette and we get into the height discussion. And she basically says that men around my height isn't and issue for her, that its all good. So I very checkly reply "so you like what you see" as I point to my face and says "yes I do, you are very handsome".
We then all go to this night club and me and my friends split from the girls and find three other girls on the dance floor. At this point I'm getting pretty drunk and while dancing spilt some beer over one of the girls, me thinking she's gonna be pissed - just says "naaaw you're good" and just continues dancing with us. At this point MrPickup leaves as he feels he's not getting much attention from the other girls or any of these new girls. So while we continue dancing with these new girls, another two girls come on from the side. One of them moves in close to me and shouts "my friend thinks you're hot". I then move over, say hi to friend, dance a little bit with them before going back to the other new girls. We dance with them until the night club closes, but invite them over for some drinks at my hotel room down the street. They actually say yes, last minute suddenly bolt. Not sure why, but I think one them just got super drunk and had to throw up since the bolted quickly.
I as me and Mr200cm make our way out of the night club we spot the three girls we met earlier, and invite them over for the after party. And they kindly join us. Back a my hotel room (a nice big suite) we pop a bottle of wine and just chill. At this point I'm thinking the brunette was the one interested, but I end up talking with the blond instead because of how we sat down in the sofa. The blond seems to be the "leader" and was honestly may be the prettiest one of the bunch. Either way, as me and the blond get more and more into the conversation, it gets really late and the girls decide it's time to go. As they are leaving the blond excitingly says "there is something I really wanna tell you", and I'm like "what?!", and she replies "you know what", and I'm like "no, I don't". They then leave. But less than a minute later she comes back because she forgot her purse, I meet her in the hall of the suite hand over her purse and I say "tell me what you wanted to tell me" and she says "I'm pretty sure you know what I was gonna say" and then gives me a big long kiss before running of.
Me and Mr200cm sit down and "debrief" and talk about the night as whole. For context me and Mr200cm have been out a million times before, the past ten years, just the two of us. So this isn't our first rodeo. My friend also knows all about my surgery and has observed how hard it has been for me going out all of these years being 165cm tall. And not only that, but with him being 2 meters tall! I was literally in his shadow. Seriously, we had a lot of fun going out, but I WAS ALWAYS in his shadow. If I wasn't invisible enough being 165cm tall, I was even more invisible when going out with him.
I ask him this "what is you honest and objective opinion about how women look, treat and respond to me now that I am normal height". He laughs as he replies "isn't it blatantly obvious? You're a f****** chick magnet now". He goes on to say that there is a night and day difference, and how in the past would keep it a secret when he met women out, because he felt bad how hard things where for me comparatively. And yes, that is all true, when it came to women going out with him was . But not anymore. He then told me, we've never once in the past ten years brought girls back to an after parter.
Lastly my friends say something that was a real shocker. Remember my friend is 2 meters tall and good looking. He is used to getting a lot of attention from women, to the point where men get hostile. He then closes with these before leaving to go home.
"I have never in my life, never, not once in a setting like this been considered number two by most of the women we met tonight. Both the blond and the brunette liked you more than me, that girls on the dance floor liked you more than me, and then the other random girls also liked you and didn't even acknowledge me. So yeah, there is pretty F****** large difference from before"
So yeah, every week out I am experiencing new things I've never ever had happen to me in my life before. This surgery really has changed my life for the better. My only regret is not doing this earlier in my life!
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Thanks for sharing man, happy for you
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Ive had a similar experience with people not noticing my new height. None of my friends above my current height (about 95% of them) noticed. Most people only notice, once you are taller than they are.
But im pretty sure my non-existent female friends would have noticed.
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Hey man ! I have been following your posts for some months and you are the greatest motivation when faced with anxiety related to the surgery. I will have my surgery on February with Becker, 163cm looking for around +10. There are a lot of threads emmiting bad opinions about +8 with Becker, so I try to see what the actual patients think.
How are you feeling now ? Is mobility satisfactory ? do you feel any pain after all this time ? do you consider that your physical condition is good enough now compared to pre-surgery ? Or do you feel that you had to pay some sort of price in physical terms ?
Thanks and looking forward to read more from you !
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Hey man ! I have been following your posts for some months and you are the greatest motivation when faced with anxiety related to the surgery. I will have my surgery on February with Becker, 163cm looking for around +10. There are a lot of threads emmiting bad opinions about +8 with Becker, so I try to see what the actual patients think.
How are you feeling now ? Is mobility satisfactory ? do you feel any pain after all this time ? do you consider that your physical condition is good enough now compared to pre-surgery ? Or do you feel that you had to pay some sort of price in physical terms ?
Thanks and looking forward to read more from you !
My best advice is to listen to Dr Becker and follow their recommendations. Remember, I did an extreme length at 11,5cm. I am still not 100% recovered almost two years post surgery and I probably won't be fully recovered for another year. Does that mean I cannot function normally? Absolutely not. My only issue is a tight left IT-band. An IT-band release would probably alleviate most of the stiffness, but for now I will try to work it out with physio and training. After stretching and getting heat into my muscles I can run, jog, and walk just fine. For me, it is worst after sitting in a car for a longer period of time. That is when I am at my stiffest. And also when sick and after being sick, my legs tend to stiffen up. I was sick over Christmas, and am just now starting to feel like my "normal" self. I'd say I am at about 95% mobility in my right leg, and 80-85% in my left leg. Mobility is so good, that it really doesn't bother me of affect me on the daily. If I did do less length I probably would have been fully recovered by now, but that is just the price for that extra height.
I do not have any pain, and haven't had any pain since like the summer of 2022.