Limb Lengthening Forum

I can't stress it enough. It simply sucks being 5'5 with masculine frame and pretty (yet manly) face. I look like Johnny Bravo due to my relatively short leg-to-body ratio. Even though my tibia:femur ratio is ideal and my legs in general are perfectly aligned and look very manly, they are just short for my body and I look squarish due to big and wide frame. I have naturally wide shoulders, I don't even work out and still look like a truck.

These combination of traits make me look cartoonish and only thing that I lack is height and only in legs, not in torso. Even 4 inches total will suffice (2 + 2 split in tibia and femur). 5'9 with relatively long legs will be enough for me in order to get past that cartoonish look.

Now, the main topic:

When I wear manly clothes I get tons of attention from women of all ages and I kinda feel awkward because I know that they see me attractive but due to that cartoonish, Johnny Bravo proportions at 5'5, I'm 100% certain that majority of them (at least really good looking ones) see me as a toy, i.e. they would fk with me but avoid serious relationship due to lack of height.

By lack of height I mean just 3 inches, not 6 or 8 inches because if I was at least 5'8 with good leg-to-body ratio, that would be enough for majority of them due to my good looks and I would not be considered as a chadlet at that height with longish legs.

Now, looking like this at 5'5 brings some legit issues for me to form a meaningful relationship and I'll try to explain this in more detail below. What I will say is not something that's in my head only, it's a legit concern, so read below and you'll get an idea of what the problem is.

Basically, every woman I interact with smiles at me all the time during the conversation. Be it in a shop, in a street, in a university or in any kind of setting with any kind of woman imaginable (age, looks level, type, etc.). Their eyes just brighten up when they look at me in the eyes and and they giggle constantly when talking with me. This shiet is very awkward for me when the girl / woman is relatively taller than me (between 5'8-5'11). I feel that they are attracted to me but since I lack just 3 inches of height in order for them not to feel uncomfortable besides me, they won't consider dating me due to that reason alone and it has nothing to do with them, it's just a societal pressure and they are concerned of what other people, especially their family and friends think about it.

Only thing that can save a short man in that situation is status because at least when that kind of man has a status, the girls are less concerned of what their family members and friends think because they know that it won't be negative thoughts due to status halo. In that case, even if a girl is 4 inches taller than a man, she can marry him if she doesn't feel uncomfortable with that kind of height difference. The societal pressure will be less because the man is not some unknown guy and is famous and rich so people will approve her choice (especially her family and friends).

But, when a short guy is nor famous nor rich and even if a girl is attracted to him, her mind will get plagued by the worries of what her family and friends think when they see her with a short guy so they just avoid the relationship due to that reason.

This avoidant behavior due to societal pressure mostly applies to good looking women of any height and tall women of any looks level. Short and not good looking women know that society and her family / friends won't judge her with her choice of a man, even if a man is really short like 5'3 or below. So, they feel more relaxed and open entering in a relationship with someone that short, even if the guy is very plain looking or kinda ugly. But, they feel uncomfortable around good looking guys because of low self esteem, even if such a guy is 5'5 in height. And this brings the most legit concern of why being a so-called chadlet at 5'5 sucks.

Since majority of good looking women of any height avoid entering in a relationship with someone below 5'8, no matter how attracted they are with him, due to societal pressures, and only consider dating such a short guy if he's famous or rich since in that case at least they know that their family, friends and society at large won't judge her choice badly and instead think that she's lucky getting such a famous or rich man, she feels relaxed and if she's attracted to such a short guy, she enters in a relationship in that case.

Since I'm nor famous nor rich, that scenario is not gonna happen in my case so unless I become famous or rich, I'm doomed with good looking women because they won't consider me as a serious relationship material due to said societal pressures I talked above. No matter how attracted she might be towards me, she will force her to move on and find someone who is at least average in height and good looking or famous / rich. The third option besides getting famous or rich is getting LL and fix the root problem which, I think is the best decision and I'll explain it why later.

So, this leaves me with short and not pretty women but here comes the issue I was talking about: they don't expect that such a good looking guy (even if he's short) will become genuinely attracted to them and think that they are not a match for him, so they too will avoid entering in a serious relationship with such a good looking short guy but not because of societal pressures but because of her insecurities. They think that such a guy won't commit with them and cheat, try to find a good looking woman and ditch her or whatever. Even though they very are attracted to him, their insecurities will dictate her that it's not worth it forming a serious relationship with that good looking guy as it's pointless and will fail inevitably due to him being superior in looks to her, thus giving him incentive to cheat with good looking women on the side.

I've experienced both kind of avoidance I explained above. With good looking and even taller than me women who were attracted to me but never explicitly mentioned why they rejected me but everything was clear to me of course and with short, very plain looking women who were also attracted to me but avoided entering in a relationship due to their insecurities and concerns that most probably I would not commit with her for too long. And they also never mentioned that reason when they rejected me but everything was clear to me.

I remember one case when I met this short and plain looking girl who I messaged on Instagram first and she thought that my profile was fake because she didn't expect that I would hit her. It took a couple of days for her to become 100% sure that I was not fake, LOL. She was in doubts all the time while we were chatting and even told me explicitly that she feels insecure meeting with me. I had a very hard time convincing her that I wanted to meet her so she agreed at last, albeit with greater effort on my side (she was in doubts all the time). When I met her she was looking at me with bright eyes and was giggling all the time but was very anxious and insecure when we were walking. I told her that I like beautiful girls with feminine features and she got really upset the moment she heard that and told me: "You only care about looks, don't you see?". I told her that it has nothing to do with us and I found her attractive enough but she rejected me stating that she didn't feel the connection a man and a woman should have.

There was another case with a chubby girl, very plain looking, who also ghosted me after meeting with her. I added her on Instagram too and she was hesitant going out with me at first due to being busy or some bias but eventually met with me. She was meh in terms of looks but at least I tried to see her inner qualities so I talked with her while walking together on various topics and in the midst of nowhere my new neighbour appeared who I saw only once before and talked with her briefly. She was with her man and and at first I didn't recognise her but she identified me and immediately came to me and hugged me in a very awkward manner. Then she tried to kiss me but I avoided her. Her man was standing there as if it was nothing and even asked me to take her phone number to hang out with her periodically. It was very awkward for me and the girl I was hanging out with was standing there silent besides me.

That neighbour girl was hot AF with decent body and face though. After they went, that chubby girl I was hanging out with told me immediately that it looks like she has a thing for you and I replied IDK, maybe, but I don't know her well and I feel sorry of what happened, so let's just forget it, to which she replied that OK, and then we continued walking together briefly and I escorted her to her home. Before I tried to escort her, she asked me, are you going to escort me to home, like she was not expecting I was going to do that or something. Basically, after that meeting, I tried to meet her again but she avoided with reasons like she is busy or something, so I just never tried with her again.

So, these are my experiences with good looking and plain looking women. As you can see, for me, forming a serious relationship is an issue because good looking women are concerned of what her surrounding people will think about her when dating short man so they avoid me (even when it's obvious that she's attracted to me a lot) and plain looking women are insecure dating with me because they see me too good looking for her and I kinda give off a player vibes who never settles with one girl and likes to hang out with different girls all the time.

So, the only real solution for me are the following:

1. Become famous and get a status
2. Get rich
3. Get double LL of at least 4 inches
4. All of the above

1 is kinda easier for me because I'm not hideous but I don't want to do that at this point of my life because deep down I know that I'm going to do LL and I want to keep it as a secret, thus, it's impossible to do so if I become famous before LL.

2 is a bit harder and requires much effort so it's not something I'm striving for ATM.

3 requires money but not millions and at least I can get tibia LL of 2 inches in Russia in about a year or two. For femurs, I will need much more time to get the money but is doable in about 10 years from now.

4 is very hard but after getting double LL, it's possible to become famous and rich so I'm not excluding that possibility.

For me, the most legit and respectable option is getting LL and becoming at least 5'9 with good proportions so I can break this hard barrier of height and good looking women won't feel doubtful of what their surroundings will think about me since I won't be short anymore. I don't want to leverage fame and money in order to get a girl because I don't want her surroundings to be fake around me. I just want to become a better version of myself physically and the only thing I lack is height which is fixable by LL. I know it's a hard path and not necessary for me to enjoy this life if I become famous and rich instead but I'm a vain person and I want to do it for me in the first place and for women in the second. I want to look my best and feel as a complete man and not as a so-called chadlet in order to be confident around women knowing that they won't feel ashamed being with me.

Now, if I was a generic looking short guy with an average body frame, I would get away with forming a serious relationship with a short and plain looking girl but to be honest I don't want to settle with that kind of girl because I want the best and they are right when they think that I won't commit with them because they know that I will always try to get the best the moment I can. I just wanted to form a deep relationship and that's why I tried to settle with plain looking girls but they all rejected me immediately. I just didn't try to pursue them after the rejection, just moved on, not even explaining anything.

I want to feel that deep connection with a girl, even if she's not attractive and plain looking but I'm doomed as you can see. Either I get LL and get a pretty girl or I will be alone till my looks last and enjoy casual encounters only. But, I don't want to remain like this, I wan't to get a wife and since plain looking women feel insecure with me my only option is getting LL, becoming at least 5'9 and getting a really good looking girl as a wife.

@AnotherLLer, yes I'm a realist, that's why I'd like to start with the femurs even if my tibias are smaller....
And if I can reach 1M68 that would already be a success for me....
In my case, that would be the goal of 8 cm on the femurs

@financialadvisor, I've been doing it for a while now and I hope it stays that way...
I have no idea what the prices are in France because it's frowned upon, given that it's quite a major surgery...

It would be with the precice nail, from what I've been able to understand, that would be the best in terms of pain, recovery etc...

@Ted68, thank you for your reply, I do know that 1M72 won't be big.... But I've developed skills alongside that, charisma, confidence, resourcefulness. I hope that this will make up for my height, being 1M70 would already be huge for me.... And I honestly think it will improve my self-confidence.... and make it easier to change my mind.

@shawtleg Yes, that would be great but it's a long shot because I'm fluctuating between 1M60-61-62, I can't really tell exactly, and I'm going to be checked to see if I'm within the limits.
If this can be taken care of, it's huge. And I'd be grateful... Fingers crossed now we just have to wait....

For the model, could you show me what it does? Or would you be able to make one for me? It would be a great help

@BeemerM3 Yeah I know what you mean. For me LiveLifeTaller or Turkey in general is not really in Option for me because i read so many things about them. I am still Not sure if thats all true, but I am not ready to Risk it.

I am pretty sure Proportions will be like poop after 12cm one Segment lengthening but life is not always Perfect. I could do 8cm femur and 6cm tibia but it is not something i could afford to do with probably around 120k in total. Also if I do femur now and i could think of tibia maybe After 3-4 years to get the leg proportions better. I have short legs to begin with. I did some mockups. Actuslly i look with 12cm more legs more natural than right now which is quite funny.

@AnotherLLer you are completely right going with 12cm is really pushing it. Sometimes some risks or athletic limitations are worth it. In Germany we say geben und nehmen. You give and you take


@quika34 pretty cool that france is paying a Part of it. In Germany there was a woman who wanted to get it paid by the Social Security and went to court with it. She was 150cm and they still declined unfortunately. So in Germany we do not receive financial support regarding cosmetic limblengthening.

What are those things that he wears all the time when working out? AFAIK he did 10 cm on his tibia and I bet that he uses those things to alleviate discomfort during training or something.

Do you have any idea of what those things are and what's the purpose of wearing them?

Hello! Thanks for your reply! I can see that we're in the same situation, we understand each other, it's not easy, is it? Great guy, come on, you'll soon be on the spot!
I'd love it if you could put up a post! I'd love to follow the process with you and be able to encourage you!
I'm waiting for my appointment in September with the FR surgeon, then I'll see if it's a good one and if he agrees to take me on, otherwise I'll have to do what you're doing and I was thinking of Dr Becker too.
I'll be in touch.

This is your 13 cm height difference between two men:

https://www.celebheights.com/chg/challenge2.jpg

That's more than enough to become completely different person no matter what your starting height is.

IMO, there's a reason why they (in the west) recommend up to 8 cm for femurs and up to 5 cm for tibia when doing the surgery bilaterally on a particular leg segment. It's very hard to go past 5 cm on tibia in one go and IMO it doesn't worth it to push it for 6 or 6.5 (the higher you can go for that segment in one go if you're really determined). That additional 1 or 1.5 cm doesn't worth the hassle and potential complications it may bring.

IMO 5 cm is already enough for tibia in order to lengthen the femurs up to 8 cm and look proportional. There's no need to lengthen the tibia more than 5 cm as it's a very problematic segment and 5 cm is already a higher percentage for initial tibia length as it's a shorter bone compared to femurs.

With 8 cm femurs, it will really make a huge difference in one's appearance and proportions, especially for someone who has short femurs to begin with. 8 cm distraction is a huge gap and makes femurs much longer and aesthetically pleasing to look at.

Some people who do 12 cm on their femurs with Betzbone are really pushing it and it doesn't look good at all. It's too much lengthening and not necessary.

Basically, it's 5 cm on tibia and 8 cm on femur when done each segment bilaterally within at least a year gap between.

As for quadrilateral and cross-lateral lengthening, they are not worth it IMO. You either do just femurs for 8 cm or just tibia for 5 cm and then decide if you want to lengthen the other segment in the future.

So, 13 cm total from both segments is what you can get safely and it doesn't worth it pushing for additional gains (like 10 cm on femurs and 6.5 cm on tibia for additional 3.5 cm height). 13 cm will make anyone a completely different person, no matter their starting height.

End of distraction update

Height increase: 57mm L / 60mm R

Days since operation: +67

Final height: 178cm


It has been a long time since the last update. I went back to work, which has taken a lot of my time.

I’m happy to say that I’ve finished lengthening, successfully reaching the upper limit of my goal (6cm), while also correcting a minor discrepancy between femurs. While the process has been challenging, I’m lucky to not have had any complications, and still retained a good amount of muscle.

Clicking
At the time of my last update, I was struggling significantly with clicks. It did get easier (5/10 stress) after I took a break day and reduced the distraction rate to 0.8mm (12 clicks).

However, around 5 weeks post-op I had a friend over and decided to go to the beach for a few hours. The extra strain on my muscles from that day caused another ~10 days of stressful clicks (8/10 stress).

I would strongly recommend taking it easy with your muscles during the distraction phase, especially if you have significant muscle mass around the femur. The biggest mistake I’ve made during the process was going too hard too soon.

A few other things that helped with clicking:

• Taking a warm shower or using a warm compress before clicking
• Raising your foot progressively as you gain more length. I progressed from 1 pillow -> 2 pillows (@20mm) -> 3 pillows (@45mm)
• Not rushing the clicks, taking as much time as needed and stretching into it. If you put too much force, not only will it cause more pain, but it will condition your brain to be more stressed for the next clicking session.
• Putting on something distracting that you enjoy while you click. My drug of choice was binging Haikyuu.
• For the worst days, CBD helped. However, the Dr. said there is a study linking CBD to slower consolidation.
• Reducing the rate to 12 clicks.

Moving to Airbnb
After just under a month of staying at the hotel I moved to an Airbnb. It was definitely the right decision, as I had more space and independence. I felt more like a functioning adult and less of a vegetable.

I still strongly recommend staying in an accessible room of a hotel for at least the first 3 weeks. You will have a very hard time showering or going to the bathroom otherwise.

Things to look for or ask the owner when getting an Airbnb in Athens:

• Make sure it’s on the ground floor. Very few buildings have a lift.
• The shower box must be big enough to fit a showering seat.
• It’s best to find an Airbnb near the Physical Therapy center, as you’ll be going there 4 times a week. I made the mistake of getting a farther out Airbnb and was spending 50m a day uncomfortable in a car.
• Check that there are no or very few steps to access the place.
• You can negotiate a cheaper price for a long-term stay by directly contacting the owner. I got ~30% off.

Lengthening
I’ve decided to stop at the upper limit of my goal: 5.7cm on my left (shorter) leg, and 6cm on my right. Although my original post said I was at 171cm, I believe that was a measurement error, as I later measured 172cm before clicking and now have been measured at ~178cm. I'm happy with this height, as it's slightly above average where I live, and I believe I have a high likelihood to get back to doing sports at a similar level.

Final x-ray:


Beyond 4.5cm, muscle tightness got pretty bad. I would need to wake up and stretch ~3 times during the night to get back to sleep. It was also hard to sit down and work for more than 1 hour at a time without having to stretch. The PT sessions became increasingly painful, especially the quads and glutes stretches. I would recommend doubling down on quads and glutes stretches before you do the surgery.

At the end of distraction, the tightness has slightly decreased every day. Although I don’t have the same mobility yet, it feels really good to have positive progress rather than negative.

Mobility
At the Airbnb I was walking with crutches most of the time, only using my chair to move large things or working.

At the physio, I was walking for 15 minutes with 50-40% support at ~1.6km/hr (slow, I know). My walk looked very natural.

Now after distraction I’ve been taking a few unassisted steps every day. My walk is looking pretty good, although slow. The doctor was (I think purposely) ambiguous if I could or couldn’t take unassisted steps, but I will continue to progressively walk more every day. I might upload a video later.

Sleep
Sleep has gotten better at around ~4 weeks post op. I was able to consistently get 5-6 hours of sleep. Then it has gradually improved, especially recently that I can comfortably sleep on my side.

Work
I went back to work part-time +33 days post-op, then full-time 2 weeks later. It was challenging to work while keeping up with the PT and clicking routine. I would say I was around a ~70% level of productivity as before. Though before the operation I would normally put in 55-60 hrs/week at work.

Trip back
The trip back was a bit taxing, but manageable. Dr. G’s driver took me to the airport, where they had a special assistance person assigned to me. They wheeled me around, going through priority queues (felt like a VIP), until the flight was ready. Since the plane was parked outside, they put me on a lift to get on the aircraft, before the other passengers boarded.

I had some pain in my leg from sitting down for too long, but I stood up and stretched my legs 3 times during the 3hr flight which helped.

Height and perception
I’ve started noticing a big difference from 3cm onwards. The nurses and PT staff were noticeably shorter at every 1 cm increment. At around ~177cm, I stopped having the feeling I used to have around men taller than me of being subtly inferior. I felt more on “equal footing”. Also, a significant number of women started looking “petite” to me, when before that was rare.

At the airport on my way back, I was within a crowd for the first time. I definitely felt more confident and masculine than before.

I met my dad again recently who is ~174cm. The difference in cm is small, but the perception is wildly different and noticeable. I’m very skeptical that you can hide this change from your closest friends and family, unless you’re already very tall.

Overall, so far I feel like I got exactly what I did this for. However, it’s early days, so it’s possible that the effect can wear off over time. I’ll keep you guys posted.

Consolidation
I expect the consolidation phase to take another 3 months. I’ve been given strengthening exercises mostly for the glutes, and have been recommended to continue the stretching routine. As mentioned above I will gradually resume walking.

For supplementation I will continue on Vit D, Calcium, Milk, and Whey protein and will start taking L-arginine for the blood flow.

BJR team
I am happy with the experience and support from the BJR team. The head nurse (V), head PT (H) and the PT assigned to me at the center (N) were standouts.

Dr. G. seemed to be a capable surgeon. My alignment, consolidation so far and scarring are great. All the other patients I’ve met had overall successful journeys. The complications that happened were few, but well managed by the team.

My only complaints are:

• Responsiveness via Whatsapp: Dr. G. ignored some of my non-urgent messages or replied days later. I’ve heard from other patients that it gets worse after you leave Athens.
• Difficulty clicking is somewhat normalized. Don’t get me wrong – the nurse/PT are available to help with clicking if you ask. And if you’re having a hard time they will prescribe you anti-inflammatories which help a bit. But Dr. G seems to consider 5/10 stress when clicking twice a day “normal”. Clicking is by far the most difficult part of the process (confirmed by every patient I met there), and I would suggest that the team invests more to make it easier. For example clearer instructions on what to avoid to not make it harder, specialized pillows, help with clicking daily in the Physio center.

From my own experience and from reading other diaries, I really do believe Dr. G. is the best value surgeon. While the amenities are not “premium” (Hospital, PT center), they are good enough, and the people were great. I would not consider going for a cheaper surgeon in Europe, and I would try to understand if I’m getting much more from an expensive surgeon to be worth the cost.

---

Damn my friend looks like a tough couple of weeks! Really hope your stress levels decrease going forwards and clicking pain starts to abate. Keep it up looks like you're follow up went really well.

Thanks mate! At the time when you don't know if you'll be able to endure clicking, things get pretty hard and you think about quitting. But it worked out in the end. In retrospect I should've taken more breaks from clicking during that time, and slowed down the process.

Your experience with clicking the G-Nail is EXACTLY what happened to me.

Clicking the right leg was very difficult after 2cm and it wasted me hours every day and became a torture.

Seems like there are people that this doesn't happen to them, but for me this was exactly the experience. You can check my diary.

I hope it will become easier for you somehow.

Thanks for the wishes! I wonder why they don't make a mirrored version of the nail so you can get a soft click first on the right leg. Feels like an oversight.

Why did the PT team stop visiting you? Shouldn't visit you r times a week? Do you pay for PT? Are you able to do PT by yourself?

There are two teams (1) Dr. G. has a nurse and PT person (2) There is an associated PT center with about ~5 staff. Both were included in the original price.

Dr. G's team visited me twice a day for the first week to make sure I was ok post-surgery and teach me how to click. After that they would visit once a week or when I asked.

I would go to the PT center 4 times a week during the whole process.

You can do stretches at home, but it's not the same as having someone else push you. Also at PT you get to use the anti-gravity treadmill and 3 machines: shock therapy, pressure therapy, and cold therapy. I would definitely recommend doing PT at a center during the distraction phase.