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[aestheticallylong]

Hey Everyone,

Been browsing this forum for the last 4 years, and as I draw closer to finally get LL, I thought it's time I start. interacting with the community. I want to give. a brief introduction and ask a few questions that will help me make. the right decisions.

Introduction
Been considering LL for the past few years, and have always planned to do it as soon as graduating. I am very fortunate to have my parent's support, and have the option to go with any doctor I choose (no budget constraint). Unfortunately with the STRYDE recall, that has left me in a strange spot, since I am only considering weight-bearing nails. I would like to get 6-7 cm on femurs internally. Currently I am 171 cm, early 20's, and have been stretching and working out intensely every day for the past 4 months. I plan to get into twice a day stretching, an hour each session, around 2 months prior to operation day. The goal is to get as close to full splits as I can, and stretching hip flexors, while also building strength in the core and glutes.

 Originally I planned to go with Paley STRYDE, but given that is no longer an option, I am considering Dr. Betz. I have contacted Paley, Mahboubian, and Debiparshad, and they all say to expect STRYDE back in 2023. I can technically wait that long, but if Betz can do the job, I might as well go for it (a few questions further down about this). I graduate in April, and would like to start the process in either June or August (questions below).

Questions

• For those that did LL with Betz, do you recommend him? I have read the diaries of SirStretchAlot, chasing_higher_dream, and RB, and while there are some complications, it does not seem unrecoverable. I am having a hard time deciding since I only know of the process through these diaries. Would I be able to talk to any current patients (If you are a patient PLEASE DM me)?
• Is stryde FAR superior to Betzbone? In all technicality I would need to wait around another year most likely, and I am only considering weight-bearing nails, so if it is just a matter of clicking pain and some risk of non-union I can handle that. The stryde diaries are a joy to read though, and seeing results like Movie and StrydeNailChallenge is definitely swaying my opinion.
• How would you tell your girlfriend/partner, if you would even do so? I am fairly confident she would be supportive, but I don't want to be an absolute cripple for like 5 months and have her deal with that. Looking at the walking abilities of Betzbone and stryde patients, I don't think it would be horrible, especially since a lot of these patients
  go to work occasionally.
• How difficult is it to start working one month post-op? I run a startup, and we work remotely, so I am able to work my own hours and at home. We were planning to set up an office in the summer, but I can have that set up and start attending it near the end of my lengthening period.

Summary
I look forward to starting this journey as soon as possible, but I want to have the best odds of success and minimize downtime. I am indeed fortunate to have the support of my parents, and they are willing to travel with me should I stay abroad while lengthening. I very much appreciate the incite you guys can offer, and I will give occasional updates as they become relevant.

[ilovescience]

Hey Everyone,

Been browsing this forum for the last 4 years, and as I draw closer to finally get LL, I thought it's time I start. interacting with the community. I want to give. a brief introduction and ask a few questions that will help me make. the right decisions.

Introduction
Been considering LL for the past few years, and have always planned to do it as soon as graduating. I am very fortunate to have my parent's support, and have the option to go with any doctor I choose (no budget constraint). Unfortunately with the STRYDE recall, that has left me in a strange spot, since I am only considering weight-bearing nails. I would like to get 6-7 cm on femurs internally. Currently I am 171 cm, early 20's, and have been stretching and working out intensely every day for the past 4 months. I plan to get into twice a day stretching, an hour each session, around 2 months prior to operation day. The goal is to get as close to full splits as I can, and stretching hip flexors, while also building strength in the core and glutes.

 Originally I planned to go with Paley STRYDE, but given that is no longer an option, I am considering Dr. Betz. I have contacted Paley, Mahboubian, and Debiparshad, and they all say to expect STRYDE back in 2023. I can technically wait that long, but if Betz can do the job, I might as well go for it (a few questions further down about this). I graduate in April, and would like to start the process in either June or August (questions below).

Questions

• For those that did LL with Betz, do you recommend him? I have read the diaries of SirStretchAlot, chasing_higher_dream, and RB, and while there are some complications, it does not seem unrecoverable. I am having a hard time deciding since I only know of the process through these diaries. Would I be able to talk to any current patients (If you are a patient PLEASE DM me)?
• Is stryde FAR superior to Betzbone? In all technicality I would need to wait around another year most likely, and I am only considering weight-bearing nails, so if it is just a matter of clicking pain and some risk of non-union I can handle that. The stryde diaries are a joy to read though, and seeing results like Movie and StrydeNailChallenge is definitely swaying my opinion.
• How would you tell your girlfriend/partner, if you would even do so? I am fairly confident she would be supportive, but I don't want to be an absolute cripple for like 5 months and have her deal with that. Looking at the walking abilities of Betzbone and stryde patients, I don't think it would be horrible, especially since a lot of these patients
  go to work occasionally.
• How difficult is it to start working one month post-op? I run a startup, and we work remotely, so I am able to work my own hours and at home. We were planning to set up an office in the summer, but I can have that set up and start attending it near the end of my lengthening period.

Summary
I look forward to starting this journey as soon as possible, but I want to have the best odds of success and minimize downtime. I am indeed fortunate to have the support of my parents, and they are willing to travel with me should I stay abroad while lengthening. I very much appreciate the incite you guys can offer, and I will give occasional updates as they become relevant.

Welcome to the forum. Have you talked to your doctor to see if your growth plate closed? You are probably still growing.

[aestheticallylong]

Indeed, I have been 171cm since 16.

[aestheticallylong]

If somebody can also weigh in on Dr. Guichet, I would be happy to hear, would be willing to look into him as well because his videos just give me less salesman vibes than both Betz and Paley.

[LifeMastery]

Stryde will take time. They have given no updates. How do you imagine they will have FDA clearance in 2023? And what gives you confidence that it will be a good nail? You wanna be the first patient to use it?

Many people have complained about one German doctor that he abandons patients after surgery. Many have also had great outcomes.

Guichet used to be well liked until one patient shared her experience. Surely you have read that?

It is a very difficult decision. Safe and slow = do it in US with Precice. Risky and fast = do it abroad with other weight bearing nails. But whatever happens you can go US surgeons and have them fix your complications.

Good luck

[aestheticallylong]

Update:

Have my consultation with Betz soon, so if anyone has questions let me know and I can ask. My operation date is scheduled for June, and honestly I'm feeling massive relief cause I have been looking forward to this for a very long time. Its like just the knowledge that this is happening was enough to soften the dysmorphia. I do feel some fear, as its no longer a theory, but a reality that I am gonna have a pretty slow summer. I am continuing to do stretches daily, and have seen notable improvements in hamstring flexibility. Also, I am working out my glutes and legs 2-3 times a week with weights. I have ridiculous muscle growth speed so over the past month there has been significant hypertrophy. My hope is to get them into a far above average state before operation date.

My interactions with Betz's team so far have been great, they said that ITB release is now available to anyone who requests it, and I will definitely take this offer.

I wonder if any of the veterans have felt a sense of haste in the months leading up to operation. I felt a glimpse of what life was like before dysmorphia today - a calming presence and a childlike curiosity for the present task. There are some commendable people on this forum, who despite facing what I would categorize as a debilitating mental illness, have achieved FANTASTIC things. I can only imagine the momentum of life and the difference in productivity once September rolls around and I am done lengthening.

Or maybe I'm romanticizing this crazy procedure. I don't know. I've always seen it as the final obstacle before I step into the adult world. In any case, I am excited to see what happens.

If you guys can answer some of my above questions, that would be very much appreciated.

[tallerwouldbenice]

The procedure is very difficult, but few regret it. You are lucky to be young.
It will be hard one day at a time.

[djimbo9]

My case is very similar to yours in all aspects. I shot you a DM

[vanguy04]

I had surgery with Betz in Nov/2021 and achieved 7.2cm. Now I've been consolidating for a little over 1 month. My bone growth is good and I'm physically getting stronger and more flexible each day.

To answer your questions:

• Yes, I recommend Betz. He is a good surgeon. While you're there he will visit the hospital everyday and will answer all your questions. Once I came back to my home country, he was little slow to respond but we keep in regular contact. You should definitely take him up on the IT band release offer.
• In my option Betzbone is superior to Stryde. Cobalt Chrome is stronger than stainless steel. I did the majority of my lengthening at home, and I knew each click is 0.052mm so you know exactly how much you've lengthened based on the clicks you've done. I feel with a magnetic nail like Stryde or Precise it may not be strong enough to lengthen if you have very good bone growth. With the Betzbone I was able to feel that resistance when clicking, so I wasn't too concerned about preconsolidation. I also couldn't imagine having a non-weightbearing nail like Precise as you wont be able to walk for a long time. With Stryde you would need to take more regular X-rays compared to Betzbone.
• I straight up told my girlfriend and I don't know how I would have done this without her. You will need support even with a weight baring nail. She was able to do my housework and helped me stretch.
• I came back home after 3 weeks and I worked fulltime remotely. I was able to do so but my performance was definitely less efficient than usual. Now I feel like I'm back to 100% mentally.

[aestheticallylong]

Thanks for the response bro. Did you do it in the Freiburg or Saarbrucken clinic? I'm scheduled for Saarbrucken but Freiburg is where I think he usually is, they gave me the option to do Freiburg but it would be a week later.

[Sorcerer]

I also heard Guichet said Precise would probably never come back?

[Sorcerer]

I don't recommend Betz to u in my perspective.
First, he is plugging away with crazy claims like lengthening your femurs by 10-11cm in one go and tibias by 8-10cm also in one go not only on his profile but also via emails to questions about how much patients can lengthen at most if you want to ask.
Secondly, he was telling lie that he had never caused complications while MasterHY had learned the lesson, not to mention back in 2017 he was sued by a female patient.
Finally, I am also waitng for P's return. When I saw P would never come back probably from Guichet's words I sat on the floor paralyzed with expressionless eyes and trembling lips and finally I cried out in the cafe where I was having my lunch.

[aestheticallylong]

I don't recommend Betz to u in my perspective.
First, he is plugging away with crazy claims like lengthening your femurs by 10-11cm in one go and tibias by 8-10cm also in one go not only on his profile but also via emails to questions about how much patients can lengthen at most if you want to ask.
Secondly, he was telling lie that he had never caused complications whilr MasterHY had learned the lesson, not to mention back in 2017 he was sued by a female patient.
Finally, I am also waitng for P's return. When I saw P would never come back probably from Guichet's words I sat on the floor paralyzed with expressionless eyes and trembling lips and finally I cried out in the cafe where I was having my lunch.

Sorcerer bro with all due respect, I'm gonna ask you to not comment on my journal, your posts are consistently negative and I don't want that here.

[Medium Drink Of Water]

I don't recommend Betz to u in my perspective.
First, he is plugging away with crazy claims like lengthening your femurs by 10-11cm in one go and tibias by 8-10cm also in one go not only on his profile but also via emails to questions about how much patients can lengthen at most if you want to ask.
Secondly, he was telling lie that he had never caused complications whilr MasterHY had learned the lesson, not to mention back in 2017 he was sued by a female patient.
Finally, I am also waitng for P's return. When I saw P would never come back probably from Guichet's words I sat on the floor paralyzed with expressionless eyes and trembling lips and finally I cried out in the cafe where I was having my lunch.

10-11 cm on femurs in one go is possible and has been done many times.  8-10 cm on tibias is also possible and has been done, but this is more rare.  These are high numbers but not outrageous.

[Sorcerer]

10-11 cm on femurs in one go is possible and has been done many times.  8-10 cm on tibias is also possible and has been done, but this is more rare.  These are high numbers but not outrageous.

I am not saying they are impossbie, but it seems to me or even others that he is not very taking care of patients' safeties, nearly all of other surgeons recommend lengthening femurs by 6-8cm in one go and tibias by 5-7cm in one go(on their profiles or emails), and even like Paley he does not recommend surpassing 5cm on tibias. I know there are outliers like Meck lengthening himself by 18cm in total, but that doesn't mean 18cm is totally safe.
For not commenting on OP's journal just bc I was posting negatively while I am just telling the truth, OK I will leave but before I leave, I still don't recommend Betz to you myself and it's nothing about whether I am negative or not, although Betz is very world-famous in LL.

[thankscience]

@aestheticallylong When is your consultation?

Also what made you choose Dr Betz over a g-nail provider like Guichet or Giotikas?

[hanshi]

Hey Everyone,

Been browsing this forum for the last 4 years, and as I draw closer to finally get LL, I thought it's time I start. interacting with the community. I want to give. a brief introduction and ask a few questions that will help me make. the right decisions.

Introduction
Been considering LL for the past few years, and have always planned to do it as soon as graduating. I am very fortunate to have my parent's support, and have the option to go with any doctor I choose (no budget constraint). Unfortunately with the STRYDE recall, that has left me in a strange spot, since I am only considering weight-bearing nails. I would like to get 6-7 cm on femurs internally. Currently I am 171 cm, early 20's, and have been stretching and working out intensely every day for the past 4 months. I plan to get into twice a day stretching, an hour each session, around 2 months prior to operation day. The goal is to get as close to full splits as I can, and stretching hip flexors, while also building strength in the core and glutes.

 Originally I planned to go with Paley STRYDE, but given that is no longer an option, I am considering Dr. Betz. I have contacted Paley, Mahboubian, and Debiparshad, and they all say to expect STRYDE back in 2023. I can technically wait that long, but if Betz can do the job, I might as well go for it (a few questions further down about this). I graduate in April, and would like to start the process in either June or August (questions below).

Questions

• For those that did LL with Betz, do you recommend him? I have read the diaries of SirStretchAlot, chasing_higher_dream, and RB, and while there are some complications, it does not seem unrecoverable. I am having a hard time deciding since I only know of the process through these diaries. Would I be able to talk to any current patients (If you are a patient PLEASE DM me)?
• Is stryde FAR superior to Betzbone? In all technicality I would need to wait around another year most likely, and I am only considering weight-bearing nails, so if it is just a matter of clicking pain and some risk of non-union I can handle that. The stryde diaries are a joy to read though, and seeing results like Movie and StrydeNailChallenge is definitely swaying my opinion.
• How would you tell your girlfriend/partner, if you would even do so? I am fairly confident she would be supportive, but I don't want to be an absolute cripple for like 5 months and have her deal with that. Looking at the walking abilities of Betzbone and stryde patients, I don't think it would be horrible, especially since a lot of these patients
  go to work occasionally.
• How difficult is it to start working one month post-op? I run a startup, and we work remotely, so I am able to work my own hours and at home. We were planning to set up an office in the summer, but I can have that set up and start attending it near the end of my lengthening period.

Summary
I look forward to starting this journey as soon as possible, but I want to have the best odds of success and minimize downtime. I am indeed fortunate to have the support of my parents, and they are willing to travel with me should I stay abroad while lengthening. I very much appreciate the incite you guys can offer, and I will give occasional updates as they become relevant.

Hi,

- I don't recommend Dr Betz. Although there have been many good outcomes with him there have also been many bad ones. And the problem is that he will cover up and deny any serious problems. Don't fall for his initial friendliness and easy going attitude. In case you run into serious problems he will leave you in the lurch.
- The Betzbone is not a normal product since the surgeon and the manufacturer are the same (the manufacturer is a limited liability company owned by Betz and his wife. His company is a so-called Product Label Manufacturer who buys the nails from an OEM in France). That's why in case of product problems Betz always tries to cover them up. He uses this 'personal union' between surgeon and manufacturer to circumvent major regulations with regard to medical device safety surveillance.
If you want to compare the technologies between Precice and Betzbone the huge drawback of clicking nails in general is that they have no reverse mechanism. This means in case of nonunion the Precice is much superior.

So in a nutshell: Betz is good only as long as no serious problems occur. In case of problems he will put his own interests above those of his patients.

[vanguy04]

Thanks for the response bro. Did you do it in the Freiburg or Saarbrucken clinic? I'm scheduled for Saarbrucken but Freiburg is where I think he usually is, they gave me the option to do Freiburg but it would be a week later.

No problem man. Mine was done at Kreiskrankenhaus St. Ingbert.

[vanguy04]

I am not saying they are impossbie, but it seems to me or even others that he is not very taking care of patients' safeties, nearly all of other surgeons recommend lengthening femurs by 6-8cm in one go and tibias by 5-7cm in one go(on their profiles or emails), and even like Paley he does not recommend surpassing 5cm on tibias. I know there are outliers like Meck lengthening himself by 18cm in total, but that doesn't mean 18cm is totally safe.
For not commenting on OP's journal just bc I was posting negatively while I am just telling the truth, OK I will leave but before I leave, I still don't recommend Betz to you myself and it's nothing about whether I am negative or not, although Betz is very world-famous in LL.

I believe patients should be well educated about this process before going through with the operation. In my view I think people should stay between 5-8cm for the femurs. Anything less is not worth it and anything more you start to risk function/athleticism and could look weird based on proportions. Therefore I think its the patients responsibility to decide a safe realistic goal and the surgeons responsibility to help them with it. In my dealings with Betz, he didn't recommend high lengthening amounts for me.

[vanguy04]

Hi,

- I don't recommend Dr Betz. Although there have been many good outcomes with him there have also been many bad ones. And the problem is that he will cover up and deny any serious problems. Don't fall for his initial friendliness and easy going attitude. In case you run into serious problems he will leave you in the lurch.
- The Betzbone is not a normal product since the surgeon and the manufacturer are the same (the manufacturer is a limited liability company owned by Betz and his wife. His company is a so-called Product Label Manufacturer who buys the nails from an OEM in France). That's why in case of product problems Betz always tries to cover them up. He uses this 'personal union' between surgeon and manufacturer to circumvent major regulations with regard to medical device safety surveillance.
If you want to compare the technologies between Precice and Betzbone the huge drawback of clicking nails in general is that they have no reverse mechanism. This means in case of nonunion the Precice is much superior.

So in a nutshell: Betz is good only as long as no serious problems occur. In case of problems he will put his own interests above those of his patients.

I agree with what you said. I know you have alot of experience and knowledge about Betz.

However my case has been relatively positive so far. Other patients I've met in Germany also seem to have had a positive experience as well.

[randy]

He must be 72 or above now. That can be a cause of concern. I am surprised there are no newer surgeons using this nail even now.

[aestheticallylong]

Did my consult recently. A few notes:

- ITB release is being performed in all initial surgeries since January
- Betz is an extremely energetic doctor
- Dr. Becker is now Betz's right-hand man, they perform all surgeries together
- Both doctors came across as highly competent. They were transparent about the whole process, and mentioned not only nails bending in the past, but also that ITB release should be offered given input from multiple patients. They at no point claimed clicking is completely painless for all patients. Overall, I did not get the sense that they were trying to sell me on the procedure at all
- The stories are true, the consultation was a 4+ hour marathon session

With that being said, my operation date is soon, and I am beginning to get VERY nervous. I've been stretching like a maniac and working the glutes every other day. Since the consultation, there have been moments of doubt: am I really about to break both of my healthy legs? Going to get back to stretching!

[thankscience]

Good luck! What is the date of your procedure? And what are the costs associated with the procedure with Betz currently?

[randy]

I have some questions aestheticallylong.

1) Where will you staying? Elke's house?
2) How will you reach there? You can easily reach Saarbrucken airport but after that?
3) How do you get around without any German knowledge? I don't think people in that area speak much English. Do you get Uber in that area? I am curious to know how you travel from airport to Betz center to hospital to hotel and so on.
4) Do you know since how long Dr Becker is working with Betz now? Do you trust him with your surgery?

[Siegfried]

I think its hilarious how betz has now finally included an itb release in the surgery, after patients complaining for 20 years.

[randy]

I think its hilarious how betz has now finally included an itb release in the surgery, after patients complaining for 20 years.

Was ITB the reason for not considering Betz for you?

[Siegfried]

itb is not necessary if you stay under 7-8cm on femurs. However betz has been letting his patients go over 9-10cm and never offered a itb release until now, since he received so many complaints from prior patients.

[Legtor]

My interactions with Betz's team so far have been great, they said that ITB release is now available to anyone who requests it, and I will definitely take this offer.

How much would an itb release cost?

[Hamza]

I recommend dr augustin betz as i was his patient and i know how pro is he. morals are very high.

[YungGud]

Welcome to the forum. Have you talked to your doctor to see if your growth plate closed? You are probably still growing.

it not just rare its kind of myth , that someone would grow at their early 20s, most people stop at 18-19 maximum. Robert Wadlow is an exception because of disease

[eric.cartman]

I did my femurs with Betz in Oct '21 and I've had only positive experience with him. I ended up doing 9.8cm on Left and 10.2cm on Right due to pre-existing length discrepancy. I didn't have to do IT band release and I'm doing fine. I still have some duck ass, and slight hip sway while walking without crutches but it's getting better every week.

I'd definitely recommend Betz. He and his team are some of the most experienced in LL.