Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Height & Proportions => Topic started by: Jack1066 on January 31, 2017, 01:32:15 AM
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So I've been spending the evening obsessing over body insecurities on the internet again like the absolute loser I am.
I was reading that the "golden" leg/torso ratio is 1.68. You can measure that by putting a tape measure from the floor to your belly button, then taking your total height and dividing that by the floor-belly button measurement. For example, I got 173 cm / 101 cm = a ratio of 1.71. Guess I have stubby legs.
I figured my proportions would get closest to that ratio at about 179-180 cm total height, assuming I did LL for 6-7 cm. Arm length I'm not convinced is actually important (apart from for practical reasons) so long as your arms aren't noticeably out of whack with the rest of your body- probably about 2 or 3 inches less than total height depending on the person.
There's also the whole issue of shoulder broadness vs narrow waist. The ideal waist circumference is 45% of your height and the ideal shoulder circumference is 1.5 to 1.6 times that. So a guy of 5'10 should ideally have a 31-32 inch waist and a shoulder circumference of 47- 51 or so inches.
I'd also like to say, for us guys 5'7-9 and over, I don't think height matters absolutely as much as proportions. A 6 ft plus guy with bad proportions is worse looking than a 5'7 guy with good ones imo. If you take the measurements and it turns out your legs are already long for your height, maybe it's better to focus on improving your upper body proportions more instead.
Obviously a 6'1 guy with good proportions is model material, and that's ideal. But I think at a certain point proportions are really more important than height.
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In defense of all the guys on here who've been rejected because of height and are pursuing LL as a result, i will say: no 5'8 guy at a bar has ever been told, "sorry i can't date you because your torso to leg ratio isn't ideal for me". Girls want to look up to you in heels, it's as simple as that.
Not to mention, adding 3 inches of height to a 5'8 frame doesn't do nearly as much to proportions as it does to a 5'3 guy. All the more reason for that 5'8 guy to do it and not worry too much about "golden ratios"
Not even going to respond to your shoulder circumference nonsense because you can be a gorgeous 5'10-5'11 nfl wide receiver with broad muscular shoulders.. or you could be a skinny ass dude with no shoulder breadth... its all about how you carry it.
All in all, stop obsessing about esoteric ratios and the like... you're not doing yourself any favors.
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Not to mention, adding 3 inches of height to a 5'8 frame doesn't do nearly as much to proportions as it does to a 5'3 guy. All the more reason for that 5'8 guy to do it and not worry too much about "golden ratios"
I wish people would stop throwing around blanket statements like these when we literally have two guys proving otherwise this exact scenario right here in this forum....
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Also to add, to girl will say anything about your bad proportions but she will still think you will look wierd.. She will, just in the case of awkward results, simply say "not interested".
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Also to add, to girl will say anything about your bad proportions but she will still think you will look wierd.. She will, just in the case of awkward results, simply say "not interested".
Ah right. Tell that to all the lift wearers (including myself) on these forums who will give you first hand accounts of how much more positive attention they received when they go out in their tall boys shoes.
But sure, go ahead and obsess over 1.65 vs 1.68 vs 1.71 ratios. When you're out at 1oak in nyc and the cute modelesque chicks wearing their 4 inch stilettos are literally overlooking the 5'7 "perfectly ratioed guy" for the 6'0 one, tell us again how you'd rather be the shorter guy and counter that by buying her a drink and telling her "have you seen my belly button height though?"
Alu, I agree blanket statements aren't always accurate but math is math... you'll notice 3 inches of femoral distraction on a 5'3 guy far more easily than you will on someone with my starting height ...if at all, which is why when i wear lifts the feedback is phenomenal on the social scene.
Like i described in my Rozbruch thread, At 5'9 when i go out to clubs wearing my 3 inch lifts taking me to 6'0, i can tell you... no one cares about my ratio, it's simply: "wow you're cute and tall, let's dance", whereas 5 years ago before i moved to nyc it was "you're cute... only if you were taller though..." Stacking the lifts made life even more fantastic since i moved from LA.
Speaking of which.. i have to write a pretty long pre-op update for you guys. Chat soon.
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I also wear insoles and I do agree that people dont notice the proportion difference but rather the height difference. But I did get "you have short legs" comments. Proportions are important (to an extant).
Btw, lifts dont mimic femoral lengthening but tibial lengthening. Femoral lengthening will not look aesthetically the same as lifts
P.s What kind of shoes do you wear?
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Nvm.
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OK, haha, you have a point about being obsessive over ratios. Probably the shoulder one is what matters the most.
That said, coincidentally I saw a guy in the street today who I think had done LL! I mean he had insanely long legs and a very small torso.
He didn't look too good.
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Alu, I agree blanket statements aren't always accurate but math is math... you'll notice 3 inches of femoral distraction on a 5'3 guy far more easily than you will on someone with my starting height ...if at all, which is why when i wear lifts the feedback is phenomenal on the social scene.
Yeah... and I've noticed 5'3-5'5 guys end up looking great after 3-4 inches increase... then I noticed some 5'7-5'8 guys and their mock-ups and it's blatantly clear they would look horrible. (Math supported this too by the way).
So again stop with that stupid baseless statement. It's a case by case basis. Also Wearing lifts is not accurate at all to how you may look post LL.
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Yeah... and I've noticed 5'3-5'5 guys end up looking great after 3-4 inches increase... then I noticed some 5'7-5'8 guys and their mock-ups and it's blatantly clear they would look horrible. (Math supported this too by the way).
So again stop with that stupid baseless statement. It's a case by case basis. Also Wearing lifts is not accurate at all to how you may look post LL.
Mock ups are amateurish (rozbruch hates them). He believes boots with a lift are a much better indicator of tibial distraction than a virtual simulation. He also believes that additional height should be proportional to starting height for best aesthetic results. So you can sit here and postulate all you want... i'm gonna go with the guy who's been doing this forever.
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Mock ups are amateurish (rozbruch hates them). He believes boots with a lift are a much better indicator of tibial distraction than a virtual simulation. He also believes that additional height should be proportional to starting height for best aesthetic results. So you can sit here and postulate all you want... i'm gonna go with the guy who's been doing this forever.
Alright that's fine. The basis for me stating the mock-ups was just to highlight how some guys already have naturally longer legs then others, regardless of what height they are at. It's the way it is; which is something you seemed to avoid admitting indirectly. But enough.
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Alright that's fine. The basis for me stating the mock-ups was just to highlight how some guys already have naturally longer legs then others, regardless of what height they are at. It's the way it is; which is something you seemed to avoid admitting indirectly. But enough.
Alright let's hug it out.
Now, Can we marvel at how awesome Sam looks before and after? Not a hint of modification if we didnt know before hand.
http://imgur.com/bO6IdHR
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Alright let's hug it out.
Now, Can we marvel at how awesome Sam looks before and after? Not a hint of modification if we didnt know before hand.
http://imgur.com/bO6IdHR
Duly noted. Which is why I have to ask, but feel free to abandon this thread for yours, did Rozbruch connect you with former patients?
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Duly noted. Which is why I have to ask, but feel free to abandon this thread for yours, did Rozbruch connect you with former patients?
He has past patients who are happy to connect with incoming patients, so yes, but it's not something he actively advertises. I have to emphasize how super helpful it is to sit and meet patients who've gone through it all and come out looking great
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He has past patients who are happy to connect with incoming patients, so yes, but it's not something he actively advertises. I have to emphasize how super helpful it is to sit and meet patients who've gone through it all and come out looking great
Last thing I'll say, we've derailed this thread long enough and we should be taking about this in your diary, but how many and is this option only open to guaranteed patients or a prospective patient?
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Last thing I'll say, we've derailed this thread long enough and we should be taking about this in your diary, but how many and is this option only open to guaranteed patients or a prospective patient?
Hahah we have. Three in total. And its allowed once you've been approved by Dr. Westrich
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Eh, screw this thread anyway, the other guys were (kinda) right, I do think naturally this forum overplays the absolute importance of height though.
Like at 5'8 I've never had a woman turn me down expressly for height. I've been told "I'd be attracted to you if you were a couple of inches taller" a couple of times though, but I wasn't sure if that was just a ty way of flirting. Oh yeah and despite this thread I'm not the super vain type, more shy, nerdy and skinny haha.
And I stand by what I said about the leg- torso ratio, this guy in town today looked seriously bizarre, his legs were like twice as long as his torso.
The dude in the photo looks really good. Hope my results are as good as that. Looks like he did femurs. I was thinking of doing 7 cm on my femurs; my tibias are 39-40 cm and my femurs are 40-41 cm as far as I remember. Do you think that'd look off balance?
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Femurs usually are longer than tibias so you should be fine.
Tbh your femurs aren't that long comparing to your tibias.
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Are you certain about your measurements? i'd have to check with the doc to see what percentile you're in but your tibias are incredibly long with respect to your femurs (or femurs short to tibia etc)
Usual ratio is something like 75-80%.
Rozbruch said i fell right in the middle of proportions: image of ratio below.
http://imgur.com/w1rheTN
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I have pretty short femurs comparing to my tibias too (33-34cm tibias 37-38cm femurs) so i guess it's possible.
Probably the best way to get proper measurements will be getting x-rays.
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No girl on this planet is going to notice or care about your proportions in broad daylight, let alone in a dark night club. 6FeetSoon is exactly right, girls dream about a guy taller than them by at least 3-4 inches so they can wear their precious high heels out and still look up to you. That's it! It's just that simple guys...
Girls are too obsessed about their own appearance and feelings of being too fat, too ugly, boobs not big enough, ass to flat, hair too straight with not enough body. The list is 10 miles long. As a guy just take care of your hygiene, dress the part, and most importantly, do LL with a good doc like Rozbruch and be tall. Worrying about proportions is just a waste of your own time.
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Measured them again. 41 and 40 cm (femurs 1cm longer). Even better that I already have long tibias. I'll have to do an x ray I guess though.
Does anyone know the average shoulder width? I heard it's something like 18-18.5 inch for the average American white guy but the average American white guy is fat.
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No girl on this planet is going to notice or care about your proportions in broad daylight, let alone in a dark night club. 6FeetSoon is exactly right, girls dream about a guy taller than them by at least 3-4 inches so they can wear their precious high heels out and still look up to you. That's it! It's just that simple guys...
Girls are too obsessed about their own appearance and feelings of being too fat, too ugly, boobs not big enough, ass to flat, hair too straight with not enough body. The list is 10 miles long. As a guy just take care of your hygiene, dress the part, and most importantly, do LL with a good doc like Rozbruch and be tall. Worrying about proportions is just a waste of your own time.
You really underestimate women lol.
Measured them again. 41 and 40 cm (femurs 1cm longer). Even better that I already have long tibias. I'll have to do an x ray I guess though.
Does anyone know the average shoulder width? I heard it's something like 18-18.5 inch for the average American white guy but the average American white guy is fat.
No but 18 inch seems pretty real since i'm 18,5-19.
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I have to agree that the feedback from using lifts is great and I never have been told that my legs look funny and I've gone in shorts
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I have to agree that the feedback from using lifts is great and I never have been told that my legs look funny and I've gone in shorts
3 inches probably won't do much.
Problems start when you do 3 inches of LL and then wear 3 inch lifts. Imho anything more than 4 inches of total starts to look off.
Oh and btw, wasted girls in clubs aren't the most accurate in judging anybody proportions lol.
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Cool, looks like I'm 18-18.5 so I guess I sit at average.
I sometimes wear 1 inch lifts if I'm not wearing heels. I think 5'11ish plus 1 inch lifts and shoes would bring me to a decent height.
Maybe I'll try bigger lifts at some point just to see what the weather really is like up there :P
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Well I mean from friends people in church. I think I should also say I started to use them at 17 so they assumed it was natural growth. If a 30 year old did it then people would probably pay more attention at his proportions more.
And I agree that less than 4inches you should be okay. It makes me laugh that some here want to do arm lengthening when they won't go over 4 inches on their legs.
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Perhaps because their arms were already short before LL. I think mine are, even for my current height. I always have to turn the sleeves of my clothes inside out for them to fit.
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Unless they look like a t rex arm there not that short. Its a added cost thats not necessary.
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Plus, not being able to use your arms properly for months sounds worse than LL to me.
I've been told your wingspan shouldn't be less than 2 or 3 inches of your height, then it starts looking odd.
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I don't think i will every decide to do AL, risk of limited function when i'm a programmer is a huge nono.
I've been told your wingspan shouldn't be less than 2 or 3 inches of your height, then it starts looking odd.
Imho arm length itself is more important than wingspan since u can have just wide shoulders but short arms.
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Imho arm length itself is more important than wingspan since u can have just wide shoulders but short arms.
I was thinking about that and found this:
http://www. /index.php/topic,1990.60.html
I duno how true it holds.
Looks like I shouldn't do over a couple of inches of LL.
EDIT:
Seems pretty stupid, though. I mean, giving myself the benefit of the doubt (cause it's pretty hard to measure your arms) at 74.5 cm it says my "ideal" height at my arm to height ratio is 171 cm but my maximum is 186 cm before I look weird! 15 cm seems too much of a big difference to me.
Doesn't really make sense to me. Guess I'll stick to my 5-7 cm LL goal though. The doctor will probably give me advice anyway, hopefully before taking my money :P
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make me taller seems to be blocked here, well basically OP says:
"So I've been doing a lot of measuring and alterations of photos of celebrities, ordinary people (like myself) and someone who's done LL. From MY measurements and observations, most normally proportioned people (and those that have aesthetically pleasing proportions - such as models, celebrities) have a height to arm length (this is NOT armspan - this is measured from top of shoulder to tip of the middle finger) ratio of about 2.3. And this ratio, incidentally, was reported by Benjamin Gould in "Investigations in the Military and Anthropological Statistics of American Soldiers" Cambridge: Riverside Press, reprinted Arno Press, NY 1979 after measuring 4,855 soldiers.
When altering photos w/ photoshop, I've noticed that disporportions start to become noticeable and displeasing as one surpasses a height to arm length ratio of 2.5."
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Most of us are well proportioned. Unless you suffered from a medical condition during childhood into adulthood, your porportions shouldn't be off. Lengthening will cause a disproportion... Be it torso/legs ratio, thighs/calves ratio (in case of either only femoral or tibial ll), arm length/height ratio etc.. 5cm on either segment will not cause any visible disproportion to others.. Going beyond that MIGHT cause it but it is not guaranteed. What 6feet said is correct though.. The taller you are, the more you can "get away" with the lengthening amount and having a reasonably long tibia (or as it was written in the old forum, a ratio of 52:48) will also make femur lengthening more favorable.
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Yeah, I guess a good doctor would be very careful about proportions if I had a good discussion with him on this.
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Good read - whether to stop 5 cm or 6 question...Being 6' + at Oak is a must indeed and there the height is low compared to some places in Europe ;)