Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: MorningStar on August 30, 2021, 10:47:58 AM
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Hello guys,
Sorry, I won't do very detailed diary, I'll make updates from time to time and answer to the questions.
Original height: 170-171 cm
Goal: +6 cm
Technique: tibia LATN with dr. Dimitrios Giotikas (original plan was Stryde but for obvious reasons I had to change my plans). Initial answer: why not G-nail? Because I've done my choice before dr. Giotikas introduced G-nail.
-1 day: legs are shaved but surgery is postponed till the next day because V21 ( http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=67810.0 ) surgery took to long. I am a bit too tired to move back to the center so I took the hotel room not so far from the hospital for one night.
0 day: feeling nervous and dizzy before the surgery but dr. Giotikas with another his team member (really awesome guy, also surgeon) came and calmed me. They said to concentrate not on the surgery but on the results. Happily after the surgery I was moved in the same ward with V21, really nice guy.
1 day: tried to do several steps with a walker but felt very dizzy and almost vomitted. Several LL veterans came to our ward to welcome us.
2 day: finally I was able to walk with a walker a bit more and several not very successful steps with a crutches. Maximum pain about 6/10, but normally around 2-3/10 (they constantly give us painkillers). Sleeping is also pretty good but a bit uncomfortable to be all the time on the back. Also they moved us to the new ward in the 4th floor where we can see a sea from the window!
3 day: getting better each day. Pain is really managable. Successfully walked with a crutches through the corridor.
4 day: feeling very good today, even I was working. I was walking a bit more than yesterday. After several hours I'll be discharged to home.
Tomorrow I'll start a PT.
In general I am completely happy about the hospital. Very clean and modern (wi-fi, TV, direct microphone with a nurses room, air conditioning), very friendly nurses are all the time around you, food is very good personally for me. Ward reminds more hotel room than a hospital room. 10/10.
P. S. One advice: take REALLY huge (XXL or bigger if possible) shorts for the frames. Happily hospital gave me one-time usage maximum size shorts, otherwise I'll be nked. ;D Nothing from my clothes I've taken fits on these frames.
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Hey MorningStar,
Congrats on starting your journey. Did Dr Giotikas prescribe any blood thinning medications for you? Since it's LATN and they have not done nailing yet, are you at a lower risk of blood clots?
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Hey MorningStar,
Congrats on starting your journey. Did Dr Giotikas prescribe any blood thinning medications for you? Since it's LATN and they have not done nailing yet, are you at a lower risk of blood clots?
Yes, they prescribed Xarelto.
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If I may,what painkillers are you using?
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If I may,what painkillers are you using?
Every several hours they give me liquid Paracetamol through cathether. Also they injected some painkillers but I haven't asked the name.
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Yes, they prescribed Xarelto.
For how long?
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16 days.
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16 days.
Thanks for the info. I was curious to know how long they prescribe this for externals. Looks like each doc has his own protocol.
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Thanks for the info. I was curious to know how long they prescribe this for externals. Looks like each doc has his own protocol.
Not externals but latn.
Pure externals are much more painless.
@morningstar, keep strong dude!
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Not externals but latn.
Pure externals are much more painless.
@morningstar, keep strong dude!
LATN is just pure externals but with nailing after lengthening. So as far as the need of blood thinners go, it's the same. Maybe with LATN they prescribe them for a few weeks after the nailing surgery. But with pure externals it's just a few weeks after the first surgery.
If MorningStar wants, he can refuse the 2nd surgery and live with the frames until his bones heal.
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please that Giotikas doesnt increase more his prices in the following years
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If I may,what painkillers are you using?
they give you fentanyl (2x day) and liquid paracetamol few times through out the day or whenever you start screaming out of pain..
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Hello guys,
Sorry, I won't do very detailed diary, I'll make updates from time to time and answer to the questions.
Original height: 170-171 cm
Goal: +6 cm
Technique: tibia LATN with dr. Dimitrios Giotikas (original plan was Stryde but for obvious reasons I had to change my plans). Initial answer: why not G-nail? Because I've done my choice before dr. Giotikas introduced G-nail.
-1 day: legs are shaved but surgery is postponed till the next day because V21 ( http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=67810.0 ) surgery took to long. I am a bit too tired to move back to the center so I took the hotel room not so far from the hospital for one night.
0 day: feeling nervous and dizzy before the surgery but dr. Giotikas with another his team member (really awesome guy, also surgeon) came and calmed me. They said to concentrate not on the surgery but on the results. Happily after the surgery I was moved in the same ward with V21, really nice guy.
1 day: tried to do several steps with a walker but felt very dizzy and almost vomitted. Several LL veterans came to our ward to welcome us.
2 day: finally I was able to walk with a walker a bit more and several not very successful steps with a crutches. Maximum pain about 6/10, but normally around 2-3/10 (they constantly give us painkillers). Sleeping is also pretty good but a bit uncomfortable to be all the time on the back. Also they moved us to the new ward in the 4th floor where we can see a sea from the window!
3 day: getting better each day. Pain is really managable. Successfully walked with a crutches through the corridor.
4 day: feeling very good today, even I was working. I was walking a bit more than yesterday. After several hours I'll be discharged to home.
Tomorrow I'll start a PT.
In general I am completely happy about the hospital. Very clean and modern (wi-fi, TV, direct microphone with a nurses room, air conditioning), very friendly nurses are all the time around you, food is very good personally for me. Ward reminds more hotel room than a hospital room. 10/10.
P. S. One advice: take REALLY huge (XXL or bigger if possible) shorts for the frames. Happily hospital gave me one-time usage maximum size shorts, otherwise I'll be nked. ;D Nothing from my clothes I've taken fits on these frames.
Congrats on the surgery! Lucky you, they moved you to the 4th floor with sea view - not many patients get that kind of special treatment! :)
Did you get those big ass TSF cages around the legs ? In my experience, externals are not that painful, but just watch out for those pinsite infections - they are not harmful but annoying as hell.
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Best of luck on your journey!
What's the benefits with LATN over LON?
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they give you fentanyl (2x day) and liquid paracetamol few times through out the day or whenever you start screaming out of pain..
And some of them say "I'm coming" and they take like 45 minutes to be there ;D ;D
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Guys, thanks for all good wishes!
@Thehighest sorry, man, but that isn't up to me. :-X
@eric.cartman yes, they gave me the big one. Actually, my tibias are pretty big.
@RichTheGreat sorry, I can't remember right now. But dr. Giotikas doesn't do LON anymore so the choice was easy - LATN only.
@V21 I told ya, dude, don't say to them: "don't hurry up" or "when you can" because they won't come at all. ;D ;D
Finally, I've returned to home with a help from a really awesome nurse. I was already feeling quite ok in the hospital today but at home I felt like a sh..t again. I was unable to climb several stairs on my own, also to make a shower on my own. Happily the nurse was here. Pain is around 3/10, but my left leg (the weak one) is hardly swollen.
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LATN is just pure externals but with nailing after lengthening. So as far as the need of blood thinners go, it's the same. Maybe with LATN they prescribe them for a few weeks after the nailing surgery. But with pure externals it's just a few weeks after the first surgery.
If MorningStar wants, he can refuse the 2nd surgery and live with the frames until his bones heal.
You are right. I was talking generally but yes, before nailing it is like pure external.
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Best of luck on your journey!
What's the benefits with LATN over LON?
An easier first surgery and a little less risk of thrombosis and infections.
The con is that it needs one surgery more.
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How much did you pay?
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How much did you pay?
All prices are public: https://www.athensbjr.com/cost-pricing-of-cosmetic-limb-lengthening/
So for me - 37200 euros.
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Advice: take apartments without any stairs. I've taken with 8 stairs, believe me, I thought that will be easy but actually in that condition is A LOT. I have to pay for the extra help now because I just can't climb up or down on my own.
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Advice: take apartments without any stairs. I've taken with 8 stairs, believe me, I thought that will be easy but actually in that condition is A LOT. I have to pay for the extra help now because I just can't climb up or down on my own.
How about ramps? Are inclines hard too or just stairs?
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How about ramps? Are inclines hard too or just stairs?
There is no ramp in my house. The hardest part is to climb down the stairs. Finally today I was able to climb up on my own.
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Are you staying near the PT centre? It is hard to find airbnb's without entry stairs-- even those apartments with elevators/lifts ultimately have 5-10 stairs in the front. I am booking for my trip today.
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Are you staying near the PT centre? It is hard to find airbnb's without entry stairs-- even those apartments with elevators/lifts ultimately have 5-10 stairs in the front. I am booking for my trip today.
I had to go 5 km away from PT centre to find good place without stairs. In any case, you should do it, climbing stairs every day is crazy at this point. I was in the same room with Morning Star, so I can really tell that he is a savage hahahaha.
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Are you staying near the PT centre? It is hard to find airbnb's without entry stairs-- even those apartments with elevators/lifts ultimately have 5-10 stairs in the front. I am booking for my trip today.
I am 3 km from PT center. Yes, I took exactly what you are talking about. With elevator but with 8 stairs in the front. Believe me, better do how V21 did. If you are not able to find near the PT center without a stairs, better take a little bit further, but still without a stairs.
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Things get a lot harder after 6cm and don’t even really get that hard at all until 4cm, so if you stop at 6cm you shouldn’t have that bad of a journey. Best of luck!
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@HobbitMan thanks!
6 day: no pain at all while laying on the bed and about 4/10 while walking. Sleep is perfect. Now walking improves a bit slower after several days of fast improvement. Yesterday was a first PT. Today is a second. Hope it helps to move forward.
I've made some notes about daily life while being with broken legs and living alone. Later I'll add more advices but for today I have these. Hope they will help to someone.
1. Rent an apartment without stairs. Better further from PT center if not possible to find near but without stairs. Believe me, extra challenges is the least you want under these conditions.
2. If not possible to find house without stairs: climb stairs not looking forward (like normal) but being turned by side while handling handholds behind your back. It's way easier.
3. Attach a bag to the walker. Otherwise you don't have a way how to bring bigger things with you while walking to the kitchen or so.
4. Buy a toilet lift because it's difficult to standup from the toilet because they are normally short.
5. If you have no lift there is another way: walker has telescopic legs. So temporary collapse walker legs to the shortest position and standup with it's help.
6. Buy washing stool.
7. If you are doing some kind of externals (LATN, LON, etc. included): buy XXL or bigger shorts.
8. If you are doing some kind of externals (LATN, LON, etc. included): buy or take from the clinic soft wool padding and put it on the top of the pillow which you use for keeping legs on it while laying on the bed.
9. Take 2 bottles for pee near bed. Sometimes it's really hard to walk to the toilet. And better have 2 bottles.
10. Always have a bottle full of drinking water near bed.
11. If possible, make a stick with a hook and keep it near bed. It will help to take things near the bed which you can't reach by hand.
12. If pain is harsh - don't pretend a hero and take a painkillers. If pain is not too harsh - enjoy it. It's for a greater good.
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Are you concerned about scarring? Are you planning to do anything about them?
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Are you concerned about scarring? Are you planning to do anything about them?
No, I am not at all. And I have no plans. Honestly, I don't see any point to do something if you are not a girl.
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No, I am not at all. And I have no plans. Honestly, I don't see any point to do something if you are not a girl.
I'm not sure why guys say this. just because you are a man doesn't mean you don't take pride in having nice looking skin. Some girls will be put off by the scars and some won't. I personally don't like the sight of scars on my body even though I have them unfortunately.
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Hey guys, it’s so interesting reading your diaries @MorningStar and @V21. I just booked with Giotikas on Oct 27. I got a place for 5 months on Airbnb without stairs 5km away, so it is possible!
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Great advice man.
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@Growing I think it's a cultural thing. Here where I am from - scars are positive thing for almost all girls. Because from old times they associates with a courage. So probably that's why I don't understand.
@Nyc brother congrats, bro, you've made the first step!
@LU213 I'll give more!
7 day: yesterday was a bad-ass day. I climbed down the stairs almost without any help. I didn't use wheelchair at all. I was walking a lot, also PT. At the evening I was exhausted. Today I am fkd-up. I barely can walk, legs are hardly swollen. So I canceled PT. I'll do some workout at home with a help from a nurse and relax a bit for tomorrow PT. Also waiting an ice from the nurse because I need to reduce swollen.
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@Growing I think it's a cultural thing. Here where I am from - scars are positive thing for almost all girls. Because from old times they associates with a courage. So probably that's why I don't understand.
I agree, but it's more like someone might find out you did LL.
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@Growing I think it's a cultural thing. Here where I am from - scars are positive thing for almost all girls. Because from old times they associates with a courage. So probably that's why I don't understand.
@Nyc brother congrats, bro, you've made the first step!
@LU213 I'll give more!
7 day: yesterday was a bad-ass day. I climbed down the stairs almost without any help. I didn't use wheelchair at all. I was walking a lot, also PT. At the evening I was exhausted. Today I am fkd-up. I barely can walk, legs are hardly swollen. So I canceled PT. I'll do some workout at home with a help from a nurse and relax a bit for tomorrow PT. Also waiting an ice from the nurse because I need to reduce swollen.
In China,scars on women's beautiful legs are just stigmas only to estrange others cuz men prefer non-scar legs to rub their dcks not ones with pin-points and peony scabs.Maybe it's the same with other Asian countries.
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I agree, but it's more like someone might find out you did LL.
Only few ppl have knowledges about LL and most of them wouldn't find out you did LL.
Just apply your postoperative height into fking with female models.
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8 day: pain 0-1/10 while laying on the bed, sleep is perfect like without any surgery. Yesterday my nurse did great job so my legs are alive again. I feel a little pain while walking, maybe 3/10. Only first several steps are more painful because I feel some stifness when I just standup. What's more uncomfortable - I started to feel how two bones are rubbing each other and "clicking" sound because of that. So the time for lengthening has come. Tomorrow I'll start. Also my nurse showed me how to comfortably turn on the side while laying on the bed so from now I have 3 sleeping positions. ;D
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8 day: pain 0-1/10 while laying on the bed, sleep is perfect like without any surgery. Yesterday my nurse did great job so my legs are alive again. I feel a little pain while walking, maybe 3/10. Only first several steps are more painful because I feel some stifness when I just standup. What's more uncomfortable - I started to feel how two bones are rubbing each other and "clicking" sound because of that. So the time for lengthening has come. Tomorrow I'll start. Also my nurse showed me how to comfortably turn on the side while laying on the bed so from now I have 3 sleeping positions. ;D
Are you able to sleep on your stomache/side with those big a** fixators? :O
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8 day: pain 0-1/10 while laying on the bed, sleep is perfect like without any surgery. Yesterday my nurse did great job so my legs are alive again. I feel a little pain while walking, maybe 3/10. Only first several steps are more painful because I feel some stifness when I just standup. What's more uncomfortable - I started to feel how two bones are rubbing each other and "clicking" sound because of that. So the time for lengthening has come. Tomorrow I'll start. Also my nurse showed me how to comfortably turn on the side while laying on the bed so from now I have 3 sleeping positions. ;D
Maybe is a silly question but can you cut your hair or you have to stay with long hair with fixators?
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@RichTheGreat I haven't tried on belly yet, but on sides or back - yes, without any problem! ;D
@Thehighest do you mean legs hair or head hair? ;D if legs - they are shaved before the surgery. Of course, later they will grow again, but I don't see any problem. If head hair - better shorten them because it's not so easy to go to the barber shop during lengthening. I haven't done that. :'(
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10 day: already 2 mm taller! I felt so good today that decided not to take painkillers at all. That was a mistake. When I've started to walk, pain has started to increase. At one moment I barely managed to return from kitchen to the bedroom to take painkillers. It was not an ordinary pain but some kind of weakness and stifness in the legs. Overall all good. Swolen has reduced, no pain at all while laying in the bed.
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11 day: I don't feel perfectly anymore. All good while laying on the bed. But when I try to walk, I've started to feel strange nerve pain in the right leg. I can't lift or put weight on this leg without severe pain somewhere deep inside. I took 2 Lyrica and 2 Tramal but little or no effect. So I canceled today's PT because I can walk only by dragging this leg. I've contacted dr. Giotikas and he told me that I have to wait. I'll put some ice on it and I hope tomorrow will be better.
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Hope all improves tomorrow or you get something for that nerve pain. Are you alone in Greece?
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Just reading your posts! Fellow Giotikas patient here. Glad to see you going through with this surgery. The pain will subside after the 2-3 week mark as your body overall is healing to this intrusive surgery. Stay strong and keep your head up!
Some of the things I did during my lengthening was ensure to do PT/exercises as much as I can. In fact, the nurse you mention is I’m certain the same nurse that I made a schedule with to do additional PT/exercises with 3 times a week for my stay in Athens (4 months). She was very well educated regarding this surgery and this itself made it reassuring for knowledge and assistance. I made the most out of the nurse and her team. I’d like to believe I’ve had the best recovery out of all the patients solely because of this. I moved places 3 weeks post surgery and was doing 3 stories of stairs daily up and down for the rest of my stay.
Diet is vital. Make sure you keep a diet rich in protein and vitamins.
Keep in contact with other patients. Share your experience. We had a WhatsApp group of the patients there discussing our progress, any issues or meetups. This helps keep our sanity.
Cheers, and keep us posted on your journey 👍
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12 day: 4 mm. I've realised that Paracetamol works far better against this new pain than Tramal or Lyrica. Today with huge efforts I went to PT. Now I feel exhausted. PT guy told me that this pain comes from the new space which has been made by lengthening (honestly, for me it was pretty obvious). Also he gave me some kind of "boots" to wear at night which should prevent from ballerina foot. Btw, Greeks are incredibly friendly - when I go to PT from the home with a crutches or walker, some guy or girl in the street always offers help for me. :)
@LU213 yes, bro, I am alone here. :-X
@AppleFanBoy thanks for wishes and advices! I try to eat as much as I can, but I don't lie - my appetite is reduced because of hot weather and surgery. I also have protein and BCAA supplements. And yes, we are talking about the same nurse - ms. M. ;)
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14 day: 6 mm. First sleepless night here. I've started to feel irritative nerve pain in the tibia even when I am laying in the bed. Especially just after clicks. It's not very harsh but still disturbs sleeping or even working. Anti-ballerina boots also doesn't help to sleep. They are not very comfortable. This week in general is hard. Not only for me, but also for my 2 fate brothers. Today is better than Monday (when I could barely walk) but still not as good as Sunday. Today's PT helped me a lot to relieve muscles tension. I am a bit anxious because it's only 6 mm and I already feel nerve pain. So what gonna be at 5-6 cm??
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Which is the price for accommodation and good suplies in Athens?
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Which is the price for accommodation and good suplies in Athens?
I pay about 750 euros per month for a 2 room apartments from AirBnB. But it's possible to find cheaper. Other prices you can find there: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Athens
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16 day: 8 mm. I have new problem. One week ago I was laying on the bed with zero pain and perfect sleep while walking was a bit painful. Now I can't relax on the bed anymore. When I lay, I've started to feel irritating pain in shins. It's not very strong, but very irritating, sleeping is impossible. When I sit and my shins get a little tension - all good. Tonight I tried to sleep by sitting all night. Needless to say that such sleep is a sh.t. Besides that, my ankles are very hardly swollen now. I can't even wear flip flops.
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Has your pain and tension improved with physical therapy?
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19 day: 1 cm 0,75 mm! So yesterday I've been to the first follow-up appointment after the surgery. Actually, my height has been increased by 1,4 cm so far, because he made 0,4 cm initial gap after the surgery, but I count only the amount which I've lengthened. I had a plans to post X-rays here, but clinic gave me a DVD disk, so I can't do that because I don't have a DVD ROM in my computer. ;D Next time (after 2 weeks) I'll ask to send photos to my email.
My current main problem is the nerve pain when I am relaxed. I don't feel pain when I am walking or sitting, only when I am laying on the bed. So dr. Giotikas let me to increase Lyrica dosage. Also I've found a position how to sleep: I keep my legs on the ground while I lay on the bed. But this position has made my legs very swollen so dr. Giotikas has banned to sleep like this. Also I've reduced lengthening to 3 clicks per day (0,75 mm).
@LU213 PT really helps to walk more easily and without pain but I think it has not effect for the nerve pain which I feel when I am relaxed.
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20 day: 1 cm 1,5 mm. One problem is solved, another comes. Looks like I finally can relax my legs. Tonight I was sleeping for almost all night. I don't feel very irritating nerve pain as before. The problem is that yesterday I realised that one of pinsite bandages is yellow. Nurse washed the wound and changed bandage. Sadly, today not only it's yellow again but yellow fluid has started to flow from the wound. So now I am waiting for the nurse to check again because it looks like potential infection. The good part is that I don't feel any pain.
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hi morningstar,
what is your pt regimen currently?
wonder why there's potential infection for you, have you taken good care of the pinsites?
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hi morningstar,
what is your pt regimen currently?
wonder why there's potential infection for you, have you taken good care of the pinsites?
Hey! I am not doing any special care for the pinsites. The nurse comes once a week to change the bandages and wash the wounds, and that's it.
PT is 4 times a week in PT center (Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday), all other days I do PT at home. They gave me some equipment required for PT at home. One PT session takes around 1 hour 30 minutes.
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Do you think tibia lengthening is as painful as femur lengthening or Not even near?
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Do you think tibia lengthening is as painful as femur lengthening or Not even near?
I am pretty sure Tibia is less painful.
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20 day: 1 cm 1,5 mm. One problem is solved, another comes. Looks like I finally can relax my legs. Tonight I was sleeping for almost all night. I don't feel very irritating nerve pain as before. The problem is that yesterday I realised that one of pinsite bandages is yellow. Nurse washed the wound and changed bandage. Sadly, today not only it's yellow again but yellow fluid has started to flow from the wound. So now I am waiting for the nurse to check again because it looks like potential infection. The good part is that I don't feel any pain.
The yellow stuff is just regular drainage. Unfortunately some pinsites will continue discharge until you get those frames off. As long as it's not painful and the pinsite area is not tender, it's unlikely to be an infection.
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22 day: 1 cm 3 mm. Nothing to update a lot. @eric.cartman were right, false alarm about infection. Nerve pain has almost dissapeared for now. Slowly growing and getting better everyday, and that's it. :D
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Good to hear that morningstar, everyday is one day closer to your target height. keep going!
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Good to hear that morningstar, everyday is one day closer to your target height. keep going!
Thank you, canterk! Btw, I don't know why, but maybe one week ago I've started to read horror LL stories, mostly from the old diaries in this forum about bad experiences with Indian or Turkey butchers. ;D I can't explain why I am doing that, maybe for the same reason some people like to watch horror movies (I am not horror movies fan and I've never understood this genre). ;D I hope that I won't become one more horror story. ;D :-X
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No it won't be. You've so got this!!
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26 day: 1 cm 6 mm (actually 2 cm with initial 0,4 mm gap!). Pain is low, sleeping is pretty good, PT also is going ok. My current main concern is balance. Today I almost fell on the ground. It would be a disaster. :'( I can't keep balance at all while standing, I need to handle something. So today I told that to PT guy and he showed me very simple exercise: stand up near a wall behind you while keeping walker in front of you. And then try to keep balance, without handling the walker. If you fell back - you will recline to the wall. If you fall into front - you will handle a walker.
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Are you doing the nailing or just stay with externals? Is LATN right?
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Are you doing the nailing or just stay with externals? Is LATN right?
Yes, I am doing LATN (nailing). Too long to stay with externals...
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Hey MorningStar, glad you have little pain. Question for you, do you feel you would have been able to work remotely after a week?
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Hey MorningStar, glad you have little pain. Question for you, do you feel you would have been able to work remotely after a week?
Hey, man, thanks! Actually I've started to work after 4 days since the surgery, it was no problem for me. The main problem is PT sessions 4 days a week which destroys about 3-4 hours everytime. But if you are flexible with your work, then all good.
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Oh my G-d!!! You give me so much hope. Unfortunately V21 is having a hard time and some pain, when I asked him, he didn’t sound too enthusiastic about working. I really wish him a good recovery, but it’s so refreshing to hear it can be done! See you on 10/27.
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Glad it is going well!
What have patients in Athens, Greece found themselves using amazon the most for in practice? Ex: what things useful for the LL journey are better ordered on amazon rather than trying to find them on greek websites or locally?
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Glad it is going well!
What have patients in Athens, Greece found themselves using amazon the most for in practice? Ex: what things useful for the LL journey are better ordered on amazon rather than trying to find them on greek websites or locally?
I don't know, man, hard to say. Actually I haven't bought anything from Amazon yet while I am here. But now I am thinking to buy this thing for stretching: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B073W9JCDZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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I ordered foldable forearm crutches on Amazon uk. The crutches they give with the program are below par. Skroutz.com doesn't have as much in the way of crutches and I have not been impressed with their delivery thus far. V21 showed me some ice bags that I will be ordering.
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I don't know, man, hard to say. Actually I haven't bought anything from Amazon yet while I am here. But now I am thinking to buy this thing for stretching: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B073W9JCDZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Amazon takes forever to deliver in Greece. Ask the guys at PT if they can hook you up - they might have an extra you could borrow. The slant board is a double-edged sword; if you don't use it enough, your calves/ankles are gonna get super tight and cause ballerina. However, if you use it too much, the pinsites around your ankle could get irritated and potentially lead to infection.
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"Amazon takes forever to deliver in Greece"
Curious, how long does it take for some things to get to Athens, Greece? What do most people in Athens, Greece use if amazon is so slow there?
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It does take forever compared to the US where I receive almost everything the next day and sometime same day. You can get a 30 day trial on UK prime which is what I have. It tells you on each item when you will receive it but items I have ordered take 5 -12 days. I ordered 3 items on 9/22, 2 are coming 9/28 and the other between 9/29 and 10/5. They were shipped the same day and I was given tracking information. I ordered 2 items from skroutz on 9/19, 1 electronic item (hdmi for tv) arrived much earlier than they said on 9/22 but the delivery person refused to give it to me unless I paid him again. The other one was scheduled to be shipped 9/27 and I canceled it after my experience with skroutz delivery. So time frame is not so different. All things depend on the item. Mind you I don't judge skroutz by the one delivery person - many have had good experiences.
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Thank you!!!
What were all the tests / labwork/ xrays / psychological exam etc that you had to do with Giotikas before you first saw him and how much did they cost you? How long did they take to do?
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Thank you!!!
What were all the tests / labwork/ xrays / psychological exam etc that you had to do with Giotikas before you first saw him and how much did they cost you? How long did they take to do?
Hey, I had no psychological exam. Just a talk with doctor. He also tested my flexibility during my first visit (my first visit was live, not via internet). If I remember correctly, I paid 200 euros. X rays needed only if you are doing internals, but I don't know the price.
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Some photos from my journery!
Hospital food (personally I enjoyed it):
https://i.ibb.co/tPtNFQ9/16.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/tPtNFQ9/16.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/0ZjgJ5X/17.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/0ZjgJ5X/17.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/CH2B2kP/18.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/CH2B2kP/18.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/q9hdsd4/19.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/q9hdsd4/19.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/MPvDzDL/20.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/MPvDzDL/20.jpg)
VIP ward in 4th floor:
https://i.ibb.co/7kMMvkK/5.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/7kMMvkK/5.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/Drssfkg/6.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/Drssfkg/6.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/GRP0BrN/3.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/GRP0BrN/3.jpg)
Frames:
https://i.ibb.co/MPfLD4X/7.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/MPfLD4X/7.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/sK6ByKH/8.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/sK6ByKH/8.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/sVn4FQb/9.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/sVn4FQb/9.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/r5JDsnS/10.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/r5JDsnS/10.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/fHzJ4hV/12.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/fHzJ4hV/12.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/mGZTq5C/13.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/mGZTq5C/13.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/DwhxwYT/14.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/DwhxwYT/14.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/vmPL9nF/15.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/vmPL9nF/15.jpg)
Anti-ballerina shoes:
https://i.ibb.co/cwYzdDK/1.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/cwYzdDK/1.jpg)
Infamous DVD disk with X rays:
https://i.ibb.co/RBzfKZ0/qrf.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/RBzfKZ0/qrf.jpg)
A little bit of life happiness:
https://i.ibb.co/6YbBQfb/21.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/6YbBQfb/21.jpg)
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thanks morningstar for sharing your photos! again wishing you a successful lengthening and recovery!
in the future please share with us photos after frames removal :)
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How much would it cost for pure external including accommodation and everhthing in an apartment like yours?
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33 day: 2 cm 1,25 mm (2 cm 5,25 mm with initial gap). Pain is around 3-4/10. It's more irritating than harmful. I had bad sleeping for past several days but yesterday I bought spray with melatonin so coincidence or not, but today's sleeping was pretty good. In general all good, just I am becoming a little tired of these frames on legs. And around 2 months left yet... But result is pushing me forward. When I am standing straight in front of mirror, I already see a changes!
@canterk No problem, I will.
@Thehighest According to the official prices (https://www.athensbjr.com/cost-pricing-of-cosmetic-limb-lengthening/) pure externals with TSF frames on tibia costs 25315 euro. Then apartments for 3 months (you must be here at least during the lengthening period) around 2200 euro. Food, medicines, nurse services let's say around 2000 euro (of course, it depends on how much you are on budget). So I think roughly around 30000 euro.
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hang in there, 2 months is nothing compared to finally being happy with your height forever! :)
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Wow I didnt know you had to have a nurse
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Wow I didnt know you had to have a nurse
Yeah, of course you can. :) You can hire even for 24/7 if you have enough money. ;D There is a guy who don't go to PT center and hire PT coach to come to his house. Money can buy everything. ;D
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Are physio and follow ups consultations included in the price?
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Are physio and follow ups consultations included in the price?
Yes, included physio 4 days per week and follow ups every 2 weeks.
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hi morningstar. how is the included physio? is your assigned PT attentive to you? are there many other patients in the center?
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hi morningstar. how is the included physio? is your assigned PT attentive to you? are there many other patients in the center?
Sorry, man, I love PT coaches a lot, so I am not very neutral person to answer anymore. ;D But I hope they are professional. It looks like they know what they are doing. Of course, it's a little bit too early to answer.
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These days I feel like sh*t. Probably, I've got an infection. Maybe it's slightly, because a little difficult to identify, but just in case from today I've started to drink antibiotics. I am tired, I don't have strength at all, knee is stiff, several pin sites are painful, I barely can walk. But also PT guy told me from his experience that it becomes more difficult when you come near 3 cm (I am at 2,8 cm). I'll have meeting with dr. G on Monday.
Btw, I am amazed how much pretty tall people are doing this surgery. Even now there is a guy, who original height is 178 cm. Another one - 177 cm... And they are not from Netherlands.
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...
Btw, I am amazed how much pretty tall people are doing this surgery. Even now there is a guy, who original height is 178 cm. Another one - 177 cm... And they are not from Netherlands.
This proves that height dysphoria is a real disorder. Paley also mentioned somewhere about tall patients visiting him for LL.
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39 day: 2 cm 6,25 mm. OK, so several hours ago I had a meeting with dr. Giotikas. First bad news: I am 0,4 mm shorter than I thought. :'( I thought that these 0,4 mm is like the initial gap. Actually, it's just the size of the distraction line, so it doesn't count. Good news: in general I am pretty good. No ballerina, pain is manageable. I asked why I can't keep my balance while standing so the doctor said that's because my upper leg muscles are too weak. I need to concentrate more on them during PT.
Also today we had a guest in a PT center. Guy who did 10 cm (tibia - 4 cm Stryde; femur - 6 cm Stryde) one year ago. He looks awesome! Perfect proportions and walking gait. He arrived for the nails removal. I am very jealous of him!
Also that's my X-rays from today:
https://i.ibb.co/fxvbc2p/qrf.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/fxvbc2p/qrf.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/YTSfBBq/qrf.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/YTSfBBq/qrf.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/Jpr205R/qrf.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/Jpr205R/qrf.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/HGfL9bT/qrf.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/HGfL9bT/qrf.jpg)
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39 day: 2 cm 6,25 mm. OK, so several hours ago I had a meeting with dr. Giotikas. First bad news: I am 0,4 mm shorter than I thought. :'( I thought that these 0,4 mm is like the initial gap. Actually, it's just the size of the distraction line, so it doesn't count. Good news: in general I am pretty good. No ballerina, pain is manageable. I asked why I can't keep my balance while standing so the doctor said that's because my upper leg muscles are too weak. I need to concentrate more on them during PT.
Also today we had a guest in a PT center. Guy who did 10 cm (tibia - 4 cm Stryde; femur - 6 cm Stryde) one year ago. He looks awesome! Perfect proportions and walking gait. He arrived for the nails removal. I am very jealous of him!
Also that's my X-rays from today:
https://i.ibb.co/fxvbc2p/qrf.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/fxvbc2p/qrf.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/YTSfBBq/qrf.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/YTSfBBq/qrf.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/Jpr205R/qrf.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/Jpr205R/qrf.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/HGfL9bT/qrf.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/HGfL9bT/qrf.jpg)
he did stryde for just 4cm on tibia? sounds like too much of cost for just 4cm
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he did stryde for just 4cm on tibia? sounds like too much of cost for just 4cm
I think the same, but the X amount of money has different value for different people. :) Btw, he went from 174 cm to 184 cm.
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Do you know if there will be subsidence after removal of fixator, lose of some mm
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Do you know if there will be subsidence after removal of fixator, lose of some mm
I don't know if it's rule or not, but girl who just left Athens told me that she has lost maybe 2 mm after nailing. I don't remember exact number.
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What are your thoughts on the different housing options in Athens? If you are trying to balance cost and decreased risk of injuring yourself (I imagine should try to get a first floor room but what else to look for?)
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What are your thoughts on the different housing options in Athens? If you are trying to balance cost and decreased risk of injuring yourself (I imagine should try to get a first floor room but what else to look for?)
Of course would be awesome if you can walk to the road to meet taxi only with a walker and without any nurse help but it's hardly possible if there are at least short stairs. Also a plus is if you can easily move with a wheelchair in the house. And if you can go to the wc with a wheelchair. Good if you have plenty of daylight in your bedroom because most of the time you will be in the bed. Good to have balcony if it's summer but I think that's not important for you if you plan to come soon.
The problem is that it's a little bit complicated to know these things if you are going to rent via AirBnb...
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"The problem is that it's a little bit complicated to know these things if you are going to rent via AirBnb..."
That's a good point. What options would you consider outside of AirBnB?
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"The problem is that it's a little bit complicated to know these things if you are going to rent via AirBnb..."
That's a good point. What options would you consider outside of AirBnB?
Sorry, man, but I don't know... Maybe come here far earlier for several days and try to search live via local sources? I don't know...
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58 day: 4 cm 0,5 mm. 67,7% done. I can’t tell if I am doing good or not. Something looks good, something not so much. Finally I can keep a balance but I still can’t stand completely straight while not holding to anything. That has improved a lot but not 100% yet. Actually I just need to hold to something very slightly and with one hand, and then I can standup straight. Also being on 4 cm I think I have if not slightly ballerina then near it. I can be on full feet but after standing up I need dozen of seconds to put my whole feet on the ground (while trying to be as straight as possible). Probably that’s not a ballerina yet but I feel that my lower part of calves muscle is really tight. Also I can work on slant board only on the lowest level. Genetically I am not very flexible and I feel that now. Also left knee is more tight than the right one. My appetite has reduced. Probably because I’ve come from the far colder climate and I think my body is a little bit "confused" now. For me it’s like a summer here while it’s already pretty cold in my country. We eat less at summers and more at winters. Few weeks ago I’ve realised that my knees are a little bended. So I’ve been working a lot since then and now I can extend them fully while sitting and a little less while standing. But in general situation has improved a lot. More from good things - a little funny but I’ve started really enjoy climbing the stairs, especially down. It reduces tightness from legs a lot before a longer walking. Also I've improved my walking and endurance a lot, now I go few times per week to walk for 30-40 minutes. Several days ago I tried to walk inside my house without a walker but only keeping my nurse hands. That’s possible but difficult. But I think I’ll try more. I want to be at maximum good condition before the nailing. Sleep depends on the week, I don’t know. Sometimes it’s good, sometimes not. Now I’ve found (actually the nurse recommended it) pretty comfortable position - lay down on the back and put a pillows under the knees. I’ve seen that some guys are not happy about the city in general. Actually for me it’s pretty good. Not so comfortable from where I’ve come but not so bad. Athens has its own advantages and disadvantages. Despite the fact that I live here in really bad neighbourhood, I like a lot of things - climate, people, food.
One thing I can’t understand now - how can some people be with a frames for one or over than one year??? I am already very tired only after few months and I count every day now. That’s a big psychologic burden. Of course that isn’t unbearable but I was naive when I thought it’s like nothing at all. Sure, the result helps a lot to move forward. But still, I just can’t imagine keeping them for many months.
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I wanted pure external but I am changing my choice, like you said 11 months in fixators must be pure hell.
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hi morningstar,
i hope you find more strength. you have crossed the halfway mark and only have 33% to go. you are an inspiration to people like me who are also considering the same method and doctor and your progress gives me hope personally. keep it up and it will be over before you know it! keep busy and keep focused on PT too, you can do it :)
btw how much are you lengthening now per day? did you keep the same or reduced?
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hi morningstar,
i hope you find more strength. you have crossed the halfway mark and only have 33% to go. you are an inspiration to people like me who are also considering the same method and doctor and your progress gives me hope personally. keep it up and it will be over before you know it! keep busy and keep focused on PT too, you can do it :)
btw how much are you lengthening now per day? did you keep the same or reduced?
Hi, canterk, thanks for the good words.
I keep the same 0.75 mm per day.
Actually both doctor and PT center chief says that I am doing well but I still have a doubts. Without any warmup my legs are really stiff. Every time I need more and more efforts and time to put my whole feet on the ground. So now I've even started to think about stopping earlier. PT guys and head nurse says that I should split my plan into 5 cm and 5.5 cm marks. Today I am exactly on 4,5 cm. When I'll be on 5 cm (next Friday) I'll check my condition and decide what to do next. The same at 5.5 cm. I know that everyone says that it's possible to fix ballerina after all. But I also know my body well. I am genetically not flexible and probably it may be very difficult task for me. Also I give a lot of hopes into nailing. I hope my condition will improve well after that.
Regards
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Don't worry...it is normal to get some (hopefully mild) ballarina foot during the lengthening especially towards the end. it improves later with physio.
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One problem after another... I've got sick. Weakness, headache, 38.5 temperature, nausea. I did a Covid rapid test today but it was negative. I'll do again in a few days. Hope it's only some kind of flu, but still, this moment is the worst to get sick.
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How are you feeling now?
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How are you feeling now?
Hi, man. Thanks, better. Temperature is almost normal but I have few pinsite infections. But in general better.
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Hi
I think you should stop at 5cm and focus on the consolidation and recovery.
Listen to your body.
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77 day: 5 cm 4 mm. I have slight ballerina so I've got shoe lifts from PT center to walk easier. My condition is far better after the flu. Also infections are almost healed. Sleep is perfect, I think Melatonin spray helps a lot (one evening I sprayed too much so I was sleeping for 11 hours and I was still sleepy for all next day ;D ). Knees are stiff and it's difficult to extend legs (when they are already extended and warmed up, then it's easier to bend them and extend again). I hope my condition will increase well after the nailing. Also I have nailing date - November 23th!
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ty!!! If you could redo the choice of where to live in Athens, where would you choose?
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ty!!! If you could redo the choice of where to live in Athens, where would you choose?
Hi, SpeedDialer! Of course, the best place would be Peristeri. In general pretty good neighbourhood and the most important thing - PT center is in Peristeri. My location (Kato Patisia) is also not very bad from the geographical point of view - I pay approximately 5 euros to go to PT center by taxi and my trip takes around 12 minutes. But in general it's not good - quite dirty, a lot of immigrants, old houses.
Btw, I have to warn you about taking house in Peristeri. It's a little ironic thing. If you take apartments too far to go by wheelchair but still close to go by car, it can be quite difficult to call a taxi. ;D A lot of drivers don't want to go and waist time for let's say 5 minutes trip.
Btw, my nailing surgery has been moved to November 24th.
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Do you know how or from where you caught the flu?
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"Btw, I have to warn you about taking house in Peristeri. It's a little ironic thing. If you take apartments too far to go by wheelchair but still close to go by car, it can be quite difficult to call a taxi. ;D A lot of drivers don't want to go and waist time for let's say 5 minutes trip."
1. ty!!!!! If I want to stay in Peristeri, how many miles/kilometers away from the PT center should I live and still have taxi drivers willing to drive me?
2. What are your thoughts on the best options for affordable food delivery?
3. It is not very realistic to be able to find a place within walking distance of the PT center right? Better to try to find a place that is still in Peristeri but far away enough that taxi drivers will be willing to take the ride?
ty!!!!
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@LU213 Bro, I really don't know.
@SpeedDialer:
1. Man, really hard to tell you. Maybe a few kilometres, but I am really not sure. I've just heard that from the guy who lives in Peristeri that sometimes it's difficult to get a taxi. But still he is able to get it, maybe only a little more difficult.
2. Personally I use eFood every day and I am pretty happy about it. But few days ago I've heard that there is app called "BOX" in which you get some credits which later can be exchanged in extra food delivery. So probably it's more worth to use this app if you plan to order food everyday. But I haven't tried it yet.
3. I think it's realistic to find a place from which you would be able to go with a wheelchair to PT center (if you have strong enough hands, haha). Maybe it wouldn't be very safe to use wheelchair in the road, but Peristeri has a lot of small streets so traffic is not huge. Again, as I told before, it's still possible to call taxi from Peristeri to Peristeri.
So, today I've finished left leg lengthening but I'll still lengthen right leg till Monday evening because there is discrepancy between legs. I am really curious to see if left leg gonna be better than right leg on Tuesday or not.
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Hello, friends,
Finally I am without a frames! Surgery was at 24th of November, 7 AM in the morning. I don’t know when I woke up for the first time because probably after 30 seconds I felt asleep again and I was sleeping until 5 PM. First day was really disappointing. I expected to be at much better condition than after the first surgery. No way! I was in a harsh pain and even painkillers didn’t work well. I didn’t sleep at all for the whole night. I couldn’t move my legs even by 1 cm so when I wanted to change position, I was moving them with my hands. Also muscle cramps were hitting each 10-15 minutes, and when your legs are just after the surgery, these cramps are really painful.
By the way, now I really understand why some guys were really unhappy about hospital service while I gave 10/10 after the first surgery. I was very comfortable after the first surgery at August, most of the time pain was like 1/10 even without painkillers, I was able to move my legs, even walk from the second day. So what can I tell now: when you are not in pain, when you can go to WC by yourself, actually, you don’t care when they give you painkillers or if they give you at all. You don’t care when they come you to escort to toilet or when they gonna empty your pee bottle if you can do by yourself. Now I really understand that this hospital service sucks. It’s not normal to keep asking for painkillers for 2 hours and to hear: "wait a minute". Or keep asking to empty your pee bottle for 40 minutes and again to hear: "wait a minute", etc, etc. Damn, I was really angry.
Second day (Thursday) was a bit better. I was manage to sleep for 3 hours but again I wasn’t sleeping for the whole night. Finally painkillers has started to work. Also didn’t help the fact that some works are going on in the hospital so from 8 AM you hear drilling, knocking hammers, etc. Luckily, dr. Giotikas gave me the earplugs.
On third day (Friday) they have discharged me. Normally I would ask them to keep me for at least one more day because I was still weak as hell and I had no idea how I gonna be able to climb the stairs at my house while I was barely moving my legs. But I really wanted to get out of the hospital so I thought maybe I gonna move to hotel without a stairs for a couple of days until I get stronger. Sadly, the only known hotel without a stairs (another patient lives here) was fully booked so nurse (a guy) get me to the home. Together with a guy from the street they were able to bring my up the stairs.
Being at home was incomparably better than at hospital. Head of the nurse came to my house a helped me to do a lot of things, also she was keeping me morally because I was really disappointed about my condition. Her help and support was invaluable for me. Maybe I used a little bit too much melatonin at the Friday’s evening (or maybe I was so happy being far from the hospital) but I was sleeping for 11 hours. Especially from yesterday I’ve started to feel stronger and stronger. Now I can move my legs pretty good (still not the same as the day before the surgery), range of motion has started to return and pain is low. I have a little pain in distraction site, also sometimes a little in the ankles. But I am really surprised that I have no pain at all in my knees. Also last days before the surgery my knees were bended pretty much. Now they are still bended but far less, and when I try to extend them, I don’t feel any stretching feeling like before, it’s like the motion is blocked by something inside the knees. So I think that's maybe a liquids and blood inside the knees and after few days I hope it gonna be even better.
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So You gained only 5 cm o 6 cm?Also is 6.5 the maximum límite of giotikas or almost everybody stops at 5 cm for tibia
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So You gained only 5 cm o 6 cm?Also is 6.5 the maximum límite of giotikas or almost everybody stops at 5 cm for tibia
6 cm. Giotikas says that normally 7 cm for tibia is a limit (without doing Achilles tendon release). But it depends personally.
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6 cm. Giotikas says that normally 7 cm for tibia is a limit (without doing Achilles tendon release). But it depends personally.
Can you stand or walk with a walker?
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Hello, friends,
Finally I am without a frames! Surgery was at 24th of November, 7 AM in the morning. I don’t know when I woke up for the first time because probably after 30 seconds I felt asleep again and I was sleeping until 5 PM. First day was really disappointing. I expected to be at much better condition than after the first surgery. No way! I was in a harsh pain and even painkillers didn’t work well. I didn’t sleep at all for the whole night. I couldn’t move my legs even by 1 cm so when I wanted to change position, I was moving them with my hands. Also muscle cramps were hitting each 10-15 minutes, and when your legs are just after the surgery, these cramps are really painful.
By the way, now I really understand why some guys were really unhappy about hospital service while I gave 10/10 after the first surgery. I was very comfortable after the first surgery at August, most of the time pain was like 1/10 even without painkillers, I was able to move my legs, even walk from the second day. So what can I tell now: when you are not in pain, when you can go to WC by yourself, actually, you don’t care when they give you painkillers or if they give you at all. You don’t care when they come you to escort to toilet or when they gonna empty your pee bottle if you can do by yourself. Now I really understand that this hospital service sucks. It’s not normal to keep asking for painkillers for 2 hours and to hear: "wait a minute". Or keep asking to empty your pee bottle for 40 minutes and again to hear: "wait a minute", etc, etc. Damn, I was really angry.
Second day (Thursday) was a bit better. I was manage to sleep for 3 hours but again I wasn’t sleeping for the whole night. Finally painkillers has started to work. Also didn’t help the fact that some works are going on in the hospital so from 8 AM you hear drilling, knocking hammers, etc. Luckily, dr. Giotikas gave me the earplugs.
On third day (Friday) they have discharged me. Normally I would ask them to keep me for at least one more day because I was still weak as hell and I had no idea how I gonna be able to climb the stairs at my house while I was barely moving my legs. But I really wanted to get out of the hospital so I thought maybe I gonna move to hotel without a stairs for a couple of days until I get stronger. Sadly, the only known hotel without a stairs (another patient lives here) was fully booked so nurse (a guy) get me to the home. Together with a guy from the street they were able to bring my up the stairs.
Being at home was incomparably better than at hospital. Head of the nurse came to my house a helped me to do a lot of things, also she was keeping me morally because I was really disappointed about my condition. Her help and support was invaluable for me. Maybe I used a little bit too much melatonin at the Friday’s evening (or maybe I was so happy being far from the hospital) but I was sleeping for 11 hours. Especially from yesterday I’ve started to feel stronger and stronger. Now I can move my legs pretty good (still not the same as the day before the surgery), range of motion has started to return and pain is low. I have a little pain in distraction site, also sometimes a little in the ankles. But I am really surprised that I have no pain at all in my knees. Also last days before the surgery my knees were bended pretty much. Now they are still bended but far less, and when I try to extend them, I don’t feel any stretching feeling like before, it’s like the motion is blocked by something inside the knees. So I think that's maybe a liquids and blood inside the knees and after few days I hope it gonna be even better.
Congrats on the new height gain and getting those frames off! The second surgery is lot more harsher (both physically and mentally) than the first one - it feels very rough. But it will improve pretty soon after 7-10 days and your strength/range of motion will improve significantly afterward.
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@overandover I can standup and walk like a sh*t with a walker but now it's more like walking with my hands. I still have psychological barrier to put more weight on my legs. Also when I stand up, knees are still bended too much to walk more normally.
@eric.cartman thanks! I hope you are doing great!
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congrats morningstar!! when is your next xray, are you still doing PT, and when are you leaving athens?
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@overandover I can standup and walk like a sh*t with a walker but now it's more like walking with my hands. I still have psychological barrier to put more weight on my legs. Also when I stand up, knees are still bended too much to walk more normally.
@eric.cartman thanks! I hope you are doing great!
I've been told that LATN patients bear weight faster than LON. You'll be better soon maybe in a few weeks.
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@canterk thanks! Yes, I do PT everyday now. It's crucially important at this point. I don't know yet when next X-rays gonna be. I'll post in this diary. I can't leave Athens until I don't have normal walking gait. So logically thinking, I may leave at the beginning of 2022.
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Have You measured your height ay Night?
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@Thehighest no, not yet. Now it wouldn't be accurate since my knees are still bended.
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How did you manage to get a visa to stay so long in Athens? (Assuming you're not an EU citizen?)
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@thankscience I am EU citizen. So yes, this problem is solved automatically.
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How are you doing now? Is your gait close to normal now? :)
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How are you doing now? Is your gait close to normal now? :)
Hi, canterk!
Here is my last X-rays from 2021-12-13:
https://i.ibb.co/Ks7GSpN/IMG-20211213-175939.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/Ks7GSpN/IMG-20211213-175939.jpg)
https://i.ibb.co/MfGLZSF/qrf.jpg (https://i.ibb.co/MfGLZSF/qrf.jpg)
Doctor is very happy about the consolidation, especially in the right leg.
What about my recovery: I am far better than before but still far from being perfect. 3 weeks has passed after the nailing surgery and I feel very strong when I walk with support (walker or crutches). Maybe I can already take a few steps unsupported but doctor doesn't let me to do that now. My knees are still little bended: right one by 5 degrees and left one by 15 degrees. Also I fight pretty big ballerina. So in general I am not very good and my recover is hard but at least I see improvement everyday. PT center guy thinks that I need around one more month to regain walking gait.
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Good to know you are improving everyday! Since you are done with lengthening, i assume you are paying extra for PT sessions now? If yes how much is it per session, how often do you go to PT and are you still doing it in the same facility that's included in Dr G package?
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Good to know you are improving everyday! Since you are done with lengthening, i assume you are paying extra for PT sessions now? If yes how much is it per session, how often do you go to PT and are you still doing it in the same facility that's included in Dr G package?
Dr. G is paying for a few more weeks. But I don't know if it's related with LATN or because my condition is worse than expected. Later I'll pay by myself.
I go 4 times per week. And yes, later I'll go to the same center. They have Antigravity treadmill which is crucially useful for me now.
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Hello, update (6 weeks after nailing surgery):
Today's (2022-01-05) X-rays:
https://i.ibb.co/wNk7NpB/IMG-20220105-152615.jpg
Right leg consolidation is very good, left leg - less ok. I still use a walker and dr. Giotikas thinks that I'll need it or crutches for at least 6 more weeks. My knees are still little bended, especially when I standup. Probably my upper legs muscle are too weak to keep all upper body weight stable. Also my heels are around 2,5 cm up but Giotikas is sure that I don't need ATL. I haven't been using painkillers for 3 weeks because I don't feel any pain. Funny thing: today after PT it appeared that elevator in the building is broken. So I had to go down 3 floors with my hand on PT coach shoulders. It wasn't difficult.
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thanks for the update. x-ray looking good, surely your Left leg will catch up soon!
with this update i assume you will stay even longer in athens now? at least 6 weeks until the crutches are gone? the apartment and other necessities costs must be adding up with the extension of stay.. i hope when i do my surgery i wont have to extend my stay for long.
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thanks for the update. x-ray looking good, surely your Left leg will catch up soon!
with this update i assume you will stay even longer in athens now? at least 6 weeks until the crutches are gone? the apartment and other necessities costs must be adding up with the extension of stay.. i hope when i do my surgery i wont have to extend my stay for long.
Hi, canterk! My initial plan was to stay until I'll be able to walk normally. But later I've changed my plan. I have to return to my country until the end of February so I have roughly about 6 weeks from now.
By the way, I've moved to hotel 3 weeks ago. It's much much more funny to live here. Ok, hotel is far more expensive than apartments but it has full infrastructure for disabled people so I don't need to pay for a nurses to help me to go to PT center or hospital. Also it has a bar. :D So I mostly spend my weekends now in a bar with other guests or hotel owner. :D
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Hi, why do you choose LATN rather than TSF?
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Hi, why do you choose LATN rather than TSF?
Do you mean why not a pure externals? Because too long to be with a frames.
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Hello,
So we have almost 2 months after nailing surgery. Despite really difficult recovery (probably one of the hardest of the current patients), finally I see some light at the end of the tunnel. Today I've tried to walk unsupported. Slowly, not very perfect, but confidently. Left leg is weaker. Still doctor doesn't want me to walk unsupported, at least until the next X-rays. But now I am pretty sure that in one more month I'll be almost perfect.
By the way, today I had to skip physiotherapy. Athens is full of snow, all the life has stopped and I wasn't able to call a taxi. Some guys managed to go into PT. I hope they will be able to come back also.
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Hello,
So we have almost 2 months after nailing surgery. Despite really difficult recovery (probably one of the hardest of the current patients), finally I see some light at the end of the tunnel. Today I've tried to walk unsupported. Slowly, not very perfect, but confidently. Left leg is weaker. Still doctor doesn't want me to walk unsupported, at least until the next X-rays. But now I am pretty sure that in one more month I'll be almost perfect.
By the way, today I had to skip physiotherapy. Athens is full of snow, all the life has stopped and I wasn't able to call a taxi. Some guys managed to go into PT. I hope they will be able to come back also.
You have to SKIP PT?
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You have to SKIP PT?
Yes, I skipped PT session.
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Oh, I misread that as you skipping PT altogether lmao
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@morningstar, how is your consolidation going, any new update buddy ?
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Hello, sorry guys for a pretty long silence. I’ll try to update even after a few years, but for sure updates will be more and more rarely. OK, so let’s go.
Consolidation? I have only six weeks old X-rays and they looked good. So now should be even better. But I am pretty lazy to go for the X-rays now. Maybe I’ll check after one more month.
Walking? I’ve been walking unsupported for 1 month now but still I haven’t regained my walking gait yet. I have to admit that I was a little wrong when I was thinking at the end of the January that "in one more month I’ll be almost perfect". I can walk almost normally but I have to be warmed up and use 1,5 cm lifts. Without lifts I still can’t fully reach the ground with both bare feet in the same horizontal line and with 50% of weight on each leg (if I put at least a little more weight on one leg, then I easily reach the ground fully). Especially difficult in the mornings just after the sleeping. I need around 5 minutes of warm up before starting to walk because calves are very stiff in the mornings. I can easily climb up the stairs and a little bit more difficult to climb down. A little strange, but after a long walk my legs aren’t tired but feet become very tired, even painful. Maybe wearing some antiballerina shoes at night would help to get rid of this slight ballerina faster but I value good and comfortable sleeping more than a fast removal of this ballerina.
Permanent knee pain? No knee pain.
Reaction from others? I’ve heard a comment for at least a few times: "strange… You look taller than before… But maybe I haven’t seen you for a long time and I don’t remember…", haha.
Was it worth? Without any doubts - yes. Even with my extremely difficult recovery. If I am not living my dream life now, so at least closely. I’ve bought Porsche (instead of one more LL, haha), I date taller girls (I just say that I am after the injury). Everything is going well.
Would I do it again? I would definitely do LL again. But maybe femurs, not tibias. Since I’ve realized that you can do more centimeters on the femurs and they are easier to recover albeit longer tibias look better. Still I am happy.
Best regards to all brave men and women who already did, are doing or will do LL
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Hi Morningstar, thanks for your diary!
Can I ask why you did tibia instead of femurs?
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Hi Morningstar, thanks for your diary!
Can I ask why you did tibia instead of femurs?
Hi. Because when I've done my choice, Giotikas provided only LATN.
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Thank you for your pointing the importance of finding an apartment with no entrance stairs.
I wonder how did you manage to climb up/down those stairs while sitting on a wheelchair?
- Do you stand up, climb up/down the stairs with your legs, and then grab the wheelchair by hand?
- Or you simply climb up/down the stairs while sitting on the wheelchair?
I will have my surgery in Athens in several months. I hope I can figure out these important details before the surgery so that I will face less problems during my lengthening in Athens.
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Morningstar, glad to know you're doing okay. Are you still doing any stretchings now? do you feel that your flexibility is back to pre-op without doing any stretch or do you need to stretch often now just to keep flexibility? Any estimate on when you think you'll get back to normal gait?
Cheers and again congrats on finishing lengthening :)
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Hey, folks!
@FreedomFighter first of all, I was in a wheelchair for a very short period of time. Most of the time I was walking with a walker. Second - I was hiring a nurse to help me. Anyway, if you feel pain or you are uncomfortable to climb down the stairs, one of the easiest technique is climbing down on your ass. Yes, it looks a little bit embarrassing, but at the same time it’s very effective. Just sit on the ground and go down on your ass step by step. Later sit to the wheelchair with a help of your hands or a help from the nurse.
@canterk thank you! Yes, I’ve bought simple slant board from the Amazon and I am trying to stretch everyday. It really helps a lot. Of course, sometimes I forget to do that. :'( No, my flexibility is not at the pre-surgery level. Now I can touch the ground with both feet so more or less I’ve overcome ballerina but that means that my dorsiflexion is at 0 degrees. I need to continue stretching to be able to push my heels lower. Actually, when I am with a shoes my walking gait is already normal. I will make a video in a few weeks. When I am with a bare feet it’s still not perfect. Also I can’t walk in a normal pace for a very long time. Maybe 2-3 km. Later my legs become tired. I hope that will increase in time. Also one little problem - when I sit for example for 20 minutes or more, then I standup, I have to stand for about 10 seconds before starting to walk. Of course, I can walk immediately but then my first 4-5 steps look strange, like with a gelatine legs. Seems like muscles become relaxed and they need some tension before starting to walk. And still I can’t run.
Regards
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Any updates?
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Did You lengthen exactly 6 cm?? Which is your height now?
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Hello folks,
Almost a year passed from the first surgery. I still have only old X-Rays (from the February). Every week I think: "this week I’ll really go into hospital to do new x-rays", but every week I am too lazy. :D How I am in general? More or less very good.
From the good things: I have no ballerina, my normal walking gait has returned, my feet pain has disappeared, I can walk pretty fast and long distances (maybe around 10 km now), even after sitting for a few hours there is no problem to walk immediately, I can even go to the club and dance, haha.
From the bad things: I can run very slowly, in the mornings my legs are still stiff for a few minutes, I can jump very little (actually I afraid to try more). The main bad thing: despite normal walking, my legs are weak as hell comparing with the normal legs. I tried to do leg press in a gym with 40 kg (which is a pathetic weight), so I was able to do 10 reps but with an effort. Another example: I was standing and kissing a girl and I lean a little bit towards her (I put my weight in front of the legs). And she said: "relax, your legs are shacking", lol :D :D Of course my legs were shacking because of the muscle weakness.
Was it worth it? Without any doubts YES. I am living my best life. Yes, I sacrificed my athletic abilities, but I don’t care. I am not a professional athlete. Maybe one day my legs strength will return but even if no, then all good.
BUT. I have to warn all of you who plan to do that. Only now I’ve started to understand how fuc*ing complex it is. And how lucky I am. Maybe not the luckiest one but far better than the unluckiest one. I’ve seen one guy dead. I’ve seen one person almost crippled (non-union) (if you are reading this I really hope you will heal, just don’t lose the hope, stay strong). I’ve seen so much pain from myself and the others. Yes, I didn’t understand before how complex it is and what a lottery I am trying to play. And maybe that’s good because otherwise I wouldn’t have been brave enough to go through all this. I’ve won my lottery but there is also a pretty big change of losing it, even with a skilful and experienced surgeon (I am not even talking about the butchers from the third world countries). Sometimes your body just acts how it wants and no science can explain that.
The highest: I’ve added 6,1 cm. Now I am around 177 cm.
Regards
P. S. Sorry, I still haven’t made my walking video. I’ll try to do that until the end of the summer.
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Congrats on a successful journey!
The patient with the non-union - did they say what treatment they will do to fix that?
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Congrats on a successful journey!
The patient with the non-union - did they say what treatment they will do to fix that?
I am not sure if I have a right to talk a lot about this case. I asked many times this person to come here in the forum and write the story. But for now this patient still declines to do that.
They tried PRP and stem cells injection. I think now they are thinking about the bone graft.
Sadly no option provides 100% guarantee.
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I’ve seen one person almost crippled (non-union)
@MorningStar
Is (or was) this patient a smoker?
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@MorningStar
Is (or was) this patient a smoker?
No smoker, no alcohol drinker. Actually I was drinking much more alcohol while lengthening. :D
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The patient with the non-union - did they say what treatment they will do to fix that?
G-Nail has no reverse function? As i have understood, stryde and precise nails have it.
Do you thing reverse function would solve the problem?
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G-Nail has no reverse function? As i have understood, stryde and precise nails have it.
Do you thing reverse function would solve the problem?
The patient I've mentioned has used a reversable nail. But there are other problems. Sorry, I really can't comment a lot about that case. I hope this patient will register in the forum and tell all the story.
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The patient with the non-union - did they say what treatment they will do to fix that?
@MorningStar
One last question ;) : Did this patient do tibia or femur lengthening?
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MorningStar, I followed your journey since the beginning. just almost a year later, you are now living your best life :) What a great achievement.... Congratulations to you!! you are an inspiration to many others who want to do CLL!!
And to others who are reading this. what can I say, this story is proof that 1 year is not a lot to lose even if others think it is such a long time. It is only 1 year to make the rest of your life much happier. It is only 1 year of sacrifice, compare that to spending all the rest of your years being depressed about your height.
:)
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@Limbfan2020 femurs.
@canterk thanks, bro, for the support during all my journey. I really appreciate that. Actually, under the good circumstances I think it's possible to be functional enough even after half a year but as I said, everyone's body reacts differently. My journey wasn't the easiest one. But yes, you are right. Even to sacrifice 1 year is worth it. :) At some point I was even thinking about one more LL, but... I don't want to gamble with my life anymore. Enough what I have now. :)
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How would you rate your experience overall in Greece and Dr G?
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How would you rate your experience overall in Greece and Dr G?
I think 8/10. In general good. That means if in theory I would do second LL, I would seriously consider Athens again. I think dr. G and his team provides good ratio of quality and price. Of course, if money is not a question at all, go to USA. But if we talk about "medium" tier of options, I think dr. G is a good choice. Of course, that's my subjective evaluation. I am good and happy now. Someone who is still under complications maybe would rate differently.
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I think 8/10. In general good. That means if in theory I would do second LL, I would seriously consider Athens again. I think dr. G and his team provides good ratio of quality and price. Of course, if money is not a question at all, go to USA. But if we talk about "medium" tier of options, I think dr. G is a good choice. Of course, that's my subjective evaluation. I am good and happy now. Someone who is still under complications maybe would rate differently.
what were some of the areas could be improved with Dr. G and his team?
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你需要一个更新期待 ;D