Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: goingtall on March 17, 2023, 07:14:18 AM
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I am in the final stages of deciding which surgeon I will have the femur lengthening procedure with.
I'm 5 feet tall and I have a congenital back problem that made me so short. It's called Spondyloepiphyseal dysplasia tarda. It never stopped me from practically anything, I was always very active and sportsy, but unfortunately very short. Im 39 yo and not concerned with the loss of athletic ability tbh...
My biggest concern is with complications in lengthening the femur (thigh bone), which apparently is more complicated than lengthening the tibia. As the femur is a somewhat curved and arched bone - unlike the tibia - there can be an unwanted change in axis between hip and knee.
Another additional complication is about body proportion. Due to the disease, my trunk is already much smaller than my legs, so in fact I would stretch the femur - 6 cm at most.
Im gonna try to insert a image /sketch of a preview I made but not sure how yet
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You research is wrong lengthening tibia in generel has a much higher complication rate than femur. Some of the reasons is that you have to cut and grow back longer 2 bones (tibia+fibular bone) vs femur where it's only one bone. Most doctors recommend to just go for the Femurs and lengthen 6-8 cm, because it is the safest, quickest and easiest. With tibia surgery malalignment is also much more common than with femur. Go watch Cyborg4lifes video on whether you should choose tibia or femur, and this will be confirmed :)
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Tibias is much less painful than femurs.
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Thanks, had no idea femur was safer. Guess im calmer now.
Still cant upload any pictures - message error from forum: The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator
Uploaded it (my body proportions) to a third party site: https://postimg.cc/Mf0t0NYp
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When doing such a surgery pain is inevitble. It's something you shouldn't really care about since it's only a one time thing...
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I think your proportions looks totally fine. Especially with femur lengthening it's very easy to hide, if you care about hiding your surgery from other people. I personally think most people should stop caring about what other people think, since it limits or can destroy your life... But that might only be my thinking...
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Been reading a lot since I first posted here and some doubts arose.
Should I start exercising more and doing a lot of stretching in my legs to prepare for surgery?
Another question: my doctor said he would use the monolateral fixator technique for the femur. Does this technique leave a perpetual intramedullary nail in your leg?
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1. Yes before surgery if you have a proper doctor, they should give you some instructions for streching exercises.
2. Not sure about your question but only internal lengthening methods for femurs is safe. In generel LON is much more unsafe and almost all western surgeons don't recommend it for a reason...
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In the Limb Lengthening Methods page here on the forum the LON method is explained as:
"Lengthening Over Nails combines a ring fixator for lengthening and a regular intramedullary nail... Once the bones are fully consolidated, another operation is needed to remove the nails along with a week’s bed rest for the bones to heal from nail removal."
So there's definitely a nail, dont know if it is pulled or if it remains. It depends on the doctor?
Im gonna talk to my doctor again, but from what we talked im getting this one: https://www.limblength.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Art_Tx-ExFix-Monolateral-Fixator-Before-Femur-Lengthening.jpg.webp (https://www.limblength.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Art_Tx-ExFix-Monolateral-Fixator-Before-Femur-Lengthening.jpg.webp)
I guess there's no intramedullary nail, but im kinda confused! Thanks !
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In the Limb Lengthening Methods page here on the forum the LON method is explained as:
"Lengthening Over Nails combines a ring fixator for lengthening and a regular intramedullary nail... Once the bones are fully consolidated, another operation is needed to remove the nails along with a week’s bed rest for the bones to heal from nail removal."
So there's definitely a nail, dont know if it is pulled or if it remains. It depends on the doctor?
Im gonna talk to my doctor again, but from what we talked im getting this one: https://www.limblength.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Art_Tx-ExFix-Monolateral-Fixator-Before-Femur-Lengthening.jpg.webp (https://www.limblength.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Art_Tx-ExFix-Monolateral-Fixator-Before-Femur-Lengthening.jpg.webp)
I guess there's no intramedullary nail, but im kinda confused! Thanks !
I would recommend you do Precise 2.2 or a weight bearing nail. LON patients have worse outcomes on all fronts. This method is really out the door for reputable surgeons these days and is considered old tech.
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You research is wrong lengthening tibia in generel has a much higher complication rate than femur. Some of the reasons is that you have to cut and grow back longer 2 bones (tibia+fibular bone) vs femur where it's only one bone. Most doctors recommend to just go for the Femurs and lengthen 6-8 cm, because it is the safest, quickest and easiest. With tibia surgery malalignment is also much more common than with femur. Go watch Cyborg4lifes video on whether you should choose tibia or femur, and this will be confirmed :)
Femoral lengthening has a much higher chance of FE syndrome compared which is the most deadly complication. Plus with femurs, you have no choice but to do it with internal nails which even raises the chance of FE due to extra reaming of the bones.
On the other hand, tibia surgery has a higher chance of developing minor complications such as pin-site infections.
So in other words, I'd say pure external tibia lengthening would be the safest even if it's slowest.
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> Plus with femurs, you have no choice but to do it with internal nails
So there's no femur surgery without internal nails?
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Yeah, so I had another chat with my Doctor and he recommended going with LON with titanium nails. I even got him to tell me which companies made the fixators and nails, and there you all go:
NAILS - this one: https://www.biomecanica.com.br/solucoes-stars-orion-sp-femur/ (https://www.biomecanica.com.br/solucoes-stars-orion-sp-femur/)
FIXATORS - this one: https://www.selaz.com.br/fixador-externo-genesis/ (https://www.selaz.com.br/fixador-externo-genesis/)
The precise method is way too expensive and not really available here where I live.
Not sure why LON would be such an awful option, apparently most doctors use this method for femur lengthtening.
:D
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> Plus with femurs, you have no choice but to do it with internal nails
So there's no femur surgery without internal nails?
There are but any reputable doctors wouldn't advise that.
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Femurs have a lot of surrounding soft tissues, and its near your body parts where you do nature relief. It will be very difficult all things considered to do it. Any movement of your butt can cause immense pain. Tibias is more isolated below your knees, the pain can be better controlled as you dont always have to move your lower legs. Femurs you pretty much have constant movement wherever u shift.
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DO NOT GO FOR TIBIA SURGERY. I will repeat myself! Complication rate for Tibia is higher no matter what other people are trying to tell you. Because of the alignment that easily can be screwed up between tibia and fibular espically if it is without a nail inside the bone. This can give you issues with walking without pain for the rest of your life, happens to many Tibia patients. Do you really wanna wear giant fixators for like 10 Months / 5 cm? Femurs heal faster, barely any chance of malalignment, and almost zero chance of you delevoping deep infections that can be deadly.
Summarize internal Femur: Safer, less complications, easier to hide, quickest. Almost any western doctor recommends internal femur over any external method including Rozbruch, Paley etc... And these are some of the best surgeons in the world!
AND THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ALL! You doing this surgery to gain as much height as possible and with the femurs you can get up to 8 cm safely, where for the tibias only 5 cm safely. Most who go over gets into serious complications unless there starting height is like 173+ cm.
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DO NOT GO FOR TIBIA SURGERY. I will repeat myself! Complication rate for Tibia is higher no matter what other people are trying to tell you. Because of the alignment that easily can be screwed up between tibia and fibular espically if it is without a nail inside the bone. This can give you issues with walking without pain for the rest of your life, happens to many Tibia patients. Do you really wanna wear giant fixators for like 10 Months / 5 cm? Femurs heal faster, barely any chance of malalignment, and almost zero chance of you delevoping deep infections that can be deadly.
Summarize internal Femur: Safer, less complications, easier to hide, quickest. Almost any western doctor recommends internal femur over any external method including Rozbruch, Paley etc... And these are some of the best surgeons in the world!
AND THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ALL! You doing this surgery to gain as much height as possible and with the femurs you can get up to 8 cm safely, where for the tibias only 5 cm safely. Most who go over gets into serious complications unless there starting height is like 173+ cm.
PRECICE is the invention of Dr. Paley and he's the spokesperson of NuVasive. It's like his baby, it wouldn't make sense for him to admit that this method is more dangerous but it is. He intends to promote it as a revolutionary game-changer in the limb lengthening technology. He also earned more money doing this method and most importantly, this method is actually much easier to perform for any surgeon. That's why many doctors do it exclusively. External Lengthening is a pain in the ass for surgeons requiring them to be much more skilled to perform.
You mentioned that many tibia lengthening patients ended up with complications, but didn't specify which method they were using. From what I know, most if not all of the severely bad cases came from femoral lengthening patients like Unicorn.
Fair enough that femoral lengthening might give you more height even though most of patients didn't reach full 8 cm either. But tibial lengthening will most likely make you appear more aesthetic and taller.
By the way, which method did the Dr. Giotikas's patient who passed away did?
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thanks everyone for all the replies!
The day after tomorrow I have another appointment with a third Doctor. But I suspect he also does LON only. It's inevitable, apparently where I live it's the most widespread method and the method surgeons are most experienced.
Also, doing the tibias, in my case, is out of the question.
Doing it outside my country is too much of a risk. I wouldnt take it.
Guess Ill take my chances with LON, but let's see how the third appointment goes.
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Dude just search in the forum livelifetaller or femur lon complications and you’ll see why it’s not worth it. Yeah it’s much cheaper but the complication rate is way too high for infection. You literally have an open wound for months. Like save up and wait until you can get an internal nail for the femur. Like literally no western doctors even OFFERS it because all people do in USA is sue if things go wrong and it will shut down their business. They know that LON has stuff that they can’t always prevent and will destroy their practice. Turkey they don’t care, they just toss you away and those people are fked for years.
Yes there are cases of successful femur LON, and probably a majority too. But the complication rate is waaaay to high for it to be worth it.
For femur vs tibia, if you only intend on doing one, chose femur. But if you wanna do both, that’s fine too.
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Dont listen to the nonsense, femurs is very invasive compared to the tibias although it recovers faster, it has a higher complication rate. Dont think of the pain difference as nothing, femurs is way more painful compared to tibias and it can affect the results. LON tibias is still very common.
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femurs is very invasive compared to the tibias although it recovers faster, it has a higher complication rate. Dont think of the pain difference as nothing, femurs is way more painful compared to tibias and it can affect the results. LON tibias is still very common.
I agree.
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Your arguments is all speculation, no facts... The death at Dr. Giotikas has nothing to do with the method. It is as likely to happen with tibia lengthening. Dr. Paley is the god of Limb lengthening, and has more experience than any other surgeon, so you clearly know nothing about, what your talking about. I don't agree with the fact that tibia surgery looks better. You look like a alien after tibia lengthening if you have the natural 0.8 Ratio to begin with, and you lengthen more than 5+ cm... Use logic man it brings you further in life...
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And to you guys recommending tibia surgery with LON. Why does every single trustworthy experienced western surgeon recommend to stay away from both tibia lengthening and espically LON?
Who is more trustworthy? A couple of speculaters on this forum or pretty much all western experienced surgeons?
And again 10 months with terrible frames or 3 months of lengthening time with invisible nails inside of you, that will properly about 50% more length, which is the entire reason someone might do this.
But hey save the money do LON and come home with deep infection, malalignment and feel the pain and suffering because you want the "safe" and cheaper way. LMAO.
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And to you guys recommending tibia surgery with LON. Why does every single trustworthy experienced western surgeon recommend to stay away from both tibia lengthening and espically LON?
Who is more trustworthy? A couple of speculaters on this forum or pretty much all western experienced surgeons?
And again 10 months with terrible frames or 3 months of lengthening time with invisible nails inside of you, that will properly about 50% more length, which is the entire reason someone might do this.
But hey save the money do LON and come home with deep infection, malalignment and feel the pain and suffering because you want the "safe" and cheaper way. LMAO.
Hey stupid viking btw 1.67 viking huh ??? I guess you don't have the money to have an operation on Paley? Dr Giotikas ? LMAO.
Btw are you a doctor ? Did you have surgery ? When you have surgery, prove it, then we take what you say seriously.
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Watch this and then come back and tell me that I'm wrong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9aWw6bveH0&t=1749s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gFmKLjoLkE&t=397s
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=71235.msg221078#msg221078
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=78387.msg256048#msg256048
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1. Yes before surgery if you have a proper doctor, they should give you some instructions for streching exercises.
2. Not sure about your question but only internal lengthening methods for femurs is safe. In generel LON is much more unsafe and almost all western surgeons don't recommend it for a reason...
you don't know about western surgeons.
Also, you're not a doctor and you're not a patient, why are you talking? You have 18 posts
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Vikings back then in Denmark used to be 170 cm ;) Shaming other people when your short yourself is just pathetic. I have researched this topic for more than a year now, and will go with dr. Giotikas in the future when I have enough money cuz he has decades of experience and have the best price to value ratio. What about you, you haven't posted any evidence for your "facts" and doesn't seem to have gotten the surgery done either.... LOL
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Watch this and then come back and tell me that I'm wrong:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=71235.msg221078#msg221078
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=78387.msg256048#msg256048
Halil buldu diaries seriously?
(https://s8d6.turboimg.net/t/84218233_2221059_man1-anfas_1.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/84218233/2221059_man1-anfas_1.jpg.html)
femur looks very nice LMAO
The person in the video had surgery on the butcher yuksel.
The cyborg doesn't say anything bad in the video. You are not a doctor, leave this job to specialists or those who have surgery. Please do it on the femur, lengthen 10 cm.
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It's just an example of a surgeon using LON for almost every procedure and how wrong it goes alot of the time. Do you watch alot of porn? hahaha When I open the link it send to some shady Porn site. It's individual how bad/good your propertions will look after surgery. Look at this guy doing tibia, he looks like a clown.
https://drpiliortopedico.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/PRIMA-E-DOPO-8-cm-1-mese-post-rimozione-11-mesi-post-op.jpg
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I don't agree with the fact that tibia surgery looks better. You look like a alien after tibia lengthening if you have the natural 0.8 Ratio
Another proportionally obsessed idiot. The truth is that the tibia looks more aesthetic than the femur. It is as real as evolution. It is as real as the law of gravity. Whether you accept it or not, this is the truth. Some people's femurs can be short, if they make the femur to equalize. also it's crazy to make a lon on the femur. It's not bad at all in the tibia. You didn't have surgery and you're nothing. You are a stupid viking 1.67 meters tall. Nobody cares about your opinions. You're not a doctor, you're not qualified, and you have no arguments. You're saying what you've heard. Don't believe everything you hear. Femurs ruin the human gait, you idiot. Takes longer to get better. Watch Cyborg4life's video on how femur lengthening can affect metabolism and about duck's butt.
https://ibb.co/0tQRF0c
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Do you watch alot of porn? hahaha When I open the link it send to some shady Porn site.
Yes, I love your viking mom's movies;D She was penalized especially when the femurs said less uncomplicated.
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And your're a surgeon and expert yourself right? I hurt your feelings right? Anyone can easily claim something without any sources... Not clicking on your Porn links LMAO.
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I would recommend you do Precise 2.2 or a weight bearing nail. LON patients have worse outcomes on all fronts. This method is really out the door for reputable surgeons these days and is considered old tech.
Seriously how many idiots there are on this forum. Can you prove it to me? I'm not talking about people who go to the butchers and get injured in the forum. Also this person gave a stupid lot of money and only got 4cm taller. Proportion-obsessed suckers. (The diary may be fake there are no pictures and videos and it refuses to upload)
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You wrote this on another post:
Girls, you are all the same... Stop calling people short. I hope you get banned."
WHAT ABOUT YOURSELF SHAMING OTHER GUYS SHORTER THAN YOURSELF? LOL
And also this:
"Oh my god black people are really stupid. evolutionarily. Sorry but this is the truth. I shouldn't have argued with a black man."
If that isn't racism, I don't know what is...
Your're a disgusting human being, and becoming taller isn't gonna fix that. You will always be ugly on the inside ;)
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WHAT ABOUT YOURSELF SHAMING OTHER GUYS SHORTER THAN YOURSELF?
Should be girls not guys. I wrote this to dr becker's wife kanye western and short viking like you. I just called you two short and that's real. I'm not kidding.
Have you ever thought why it's just you and kanye western? You both are vile people.
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And you should include yourself, since your're also on this forum looking to become taller. You seriously have some double standards hahaha
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And you should include yourself, since your're also on this forum looking to become taller. You seriously have some double standards hahaha
I am here to inform people, not to increase my height. I'm right there when I see poor people like you and kayne western who think they're or their fake diaries.
No one cares about you they don't even answer lol. And you say that you seriously researched the Vikings were 1.70 meters tall. I guess you have no business.
The biggest feature of the ignorant is that they claim that they know, even though they don't know anything. like you. You claim to know a lot but you don't know .
You have to be a doctor to speak. Or you have to have surgery. I will ignore you from now on like other people. Kanye western and you are both commenting on the surgery even though you haven't had the surgery. even kanye western talks about post-op pain LMAO.
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Femurs lengthening gait look like absolute crap compared to tibias. Just look at how some of them walk after surgery. Horrific. Tibias patients walk more normally although slower than pre surgery. There is so much soft tissues at the femoral area that after surgery, even basic functions like peeing and pooping become heavily affected.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323501496_A_Rare_Fatal_Complication_of_Llizarov_Procedure
Another instance of femur LL fatal case.
https://www.hss.edu/conditions_tibia-lengthening-precice-internal-lengthening-nail.asp#:~:text=Femur%20lengthening%20will%20increase%20risk,a%20clinical%20problem%20for%20walking.
An explanation on why tibias is preferable.
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Here is a summarization to you from me ;)
1. Vikings were about 5'7 - 5'8 (look at the source)
2. It's funny how you know everything about the surgery, even tho you haven't gotten it yourself or is a surgeon! WHAT ABOUT YOURSELF IDIOT?
3.Shaming shorter people when your're to afraid to admit that your're short yourself is sad. Otherwise you wouldn't be on this site...
4. The fact that your're a racist shows how disgusting and stupid you are.
5. If your're not on this forum to get the surgery, but just to troll, which is obviously the case, then seriously get a life!
6. A life leason you obviously need - YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITHOUT ANY SORT OF REAL SOURCES OR PROOF.
http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/vikheight.crapml#:~:text=%22The%20examination%20of%20skeletons%20from,2%2D1%2F2%20in.
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I forgot to mention that with tibia lengthening your chances of developing arthisis and other issues is bigger according to this study:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26398436/
"Discussion: Increasing tibia length relative to femur length was found to be a significant predictor of ipsilateral hip and knee arthritis. Therefore, we recommend that when performing limb lengthening, surgical planning should lean toward recreating the normal ratio of 0.80. In circumstances where one bone is to be overlengthened relative to the other, bias should be toward overlengthening the femur."
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The guy who underwent Illazarov on Femurs is not an example you can use. EVERYONE knows that you should never do externals for femurs. If you just spend 10 minutes researching LL you will find this out. It's really hard to come by a surgeon now a days, that do external lengthening only for femurs and even LON. Only crappy unexperienced surgeons in India and Turkey offers this.
And the other link is about a patient who has problems with the hips before doing Leg lengthening and has a Discrepency. The author of the case is Dr. Rozbruch who in a interview with Cyborg4Life stated that he always recommends doing internal femurs over the tibias cuz it's easier, safer, heals quicker and more height.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkKr39RU_bo&t=420s
Watch at 11:50 - 14:45 and 19:05 - 21:20 in the video, for everyone watching this post!
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I forgot to mention that with tibia lengthening your chances of developing arthisis and other issues is bigger according to this study:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26398436/
"Discussion: Increasing tibia length relative to femur length was found to be a significant predictor of ipsilateral hip and knee arthritis. Therefore, we recommend that when performing limb lengthening, surgical planning should lean toward recreating the normal ratio of 0.80. In circumstances where one bone is to be overlengthened relative to the other, bias should be toward overlengthening the femur."
Do you understand what you read? He's talking about inequality here. Most people have a short tibia from birth. Therefore, while 7-8 cm can be done comfortably in the femur, the limit for the tibia is 5-6 cm. All of these vary from person to person. He talking about people whose tibia is longer than his femur. Also It's just a thesis. It's not a proven thing. The leg of the person in the picture you sent looks like photoshop. They also have very short femurs. It's ridiculous that he has a tibia even though he has short femurs. Most people stretch the shorter area. For a more aesthetic look.
Also, even the surgeons in turkey and india, even if they are butchers, they have more benefits to the world than you and they are the smart ones who have become doctors. Like you, they don't write to people on the internet saying that this is right or wrong. Greece and DR. Giotikas nothing less than them. European doctors are the same crap. You can do this job best at Paley in the USA. And those types of doctors are premium. Lon doesn't. The reason he can't is because he doesn't want to deal with it and the price is cheap.
Did you know that the Precice 2 is broken and there are many complications? The person you sent in the video, Dr Yuksel, had surgery.
Even if the lon are overweight, that nail will carry them. Also, when something goes wrong, it can stop the length growth and rewind. You can't do these with magnetic nails. It can break or perishable.
https://youtu.be/31t8CafApwc?t=51
There are some things that are not in the video and are not written on the internet. Those who have surgery on the femur and have problems are more common. Even cyborg4life says this. Cosmetically, the tibia is always good. Femur only if your femur is short.
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Tibias always look sexier. Long femurs don't look good. That's why women wear heels. If 2 girls are next to each other and they are the same height, we will see the girl wearing high heels taller. This is how our brain works. Why are you trying to insist people on your truth here?
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femur vs tibia is such a dumb debate. they're literally both fine. tibia is just usually a little bit more expensive since it's more complicated. And it heals slower, and usually you would not be able to lengthen it as much as your femur. But they are both friggen fine.
The only dumb thing to do is the LON method because it is cheaper. External complications are just not worth it. And again, yes there are many successful LON patients, but the potential for infection is an EASY deal breaker
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femur vs tibia is such a dumb debate. they're literally both fine. tibia is just usually a little bit more expensive since it's more complicated. And it heals slower, and usually you would not be able to lengthen it as much as your femur. But they are both friggen fine.
The only dumb thing to do is the LON method because it is cheaper. External complications are just not worth it. And again, yes there are many successful LON patients, but the potential for infection is an EASY deal breaker
What are the external complications? If the bone is warped, it can be fixed with a fixator, you can only do this with lon. It has a carrying capacity of up to 160 kg. Look for internal patients with bone infections. They were not the lon method.
If there's a dumb here, it's you. Most people here do these surgeries with their own money. You look like someone who takes money from his family. People can do whatever they want, even change gender. what does it mean to call them dumb? I guess your mother didn't teach you manners. But I can teach. I can't stand fools like you.
The only problems with the lon method are sleep - pin infection - and scars.
Btw who are you Did you have surgery ? do you have the money to do this? Courage? It is very simple to talk on the Internet and write articles.
Many patients survived this process without infection. Also, that infection is in the skin, not in the bone. The risk of bone infection is the same as internals.
If only slavery had not been abolished. To be equal with such idiots... there are 3 idiots on this forum right now. 1-Becker's wife kanye western 2-DwarfDanishviking 3- This person
Most people are smarter than you. He fearlessly wants to put all his weight on his feet. Physical therapy done this way is better. There is a risk of breakage of external magnetic nails. Giving unsupported weights is never recommended. Even if it carries the weight, the nail does not inspire confidence. It can deteriorate and break. Extension is canceled because there is no fixator outside. You can stay with 1 cm lengthening. Do you understand now, dumb boy?
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What are the external complications? If the bone is warped, it can be fixed with a fixator, you can only do this with lon. It has a carrying capacity of up to 160 kg. Look for internal patients with bone infections. They were not the lon method.
If there's a dumb here, it's you. Most people here do these surgeries with their own money. You look like someone who takes money from his family. People can do whatever they want, even change gender. what does it mean to call them dumb? I guess your mother didn't teach you manners. But I can teach. I can't stand fools like you.
The only problems with the lon method are sleep - pin infection - and scars.
Btw who are you Did you have surgery ? do you have the money to do this? Courage? It is very simple to talk on the Internet and write articles.
Many patients survived this process without infection. Also, that infection is in the skin, not in the bone. The risk of bone infection is the same as internals.
If only slavery had not been abolished. To be equal with such idiots... there are 3 idiots on this forum right now. 1-Becker's wife kanye western 2-DwarfDanishviking 3- This person
Most people are smarter than you. He fearlessly wants to put all his weight on his feet. Physical therapy done this way is better. There is a risk of breakage of external magnetic nails. Giving unsupported weights is never recommended. Even if it carries the weight, the nail does not inspire confidence. It can deteriorate and break. Extension is canceled because there is no fixator outside. You can stay with 1 cm lengthening. Do you understand now, dumb boy?
I'm gonna be honest. I didn't read most of what you said because of the terrible English. But yes, I am talking about the infections complication with LON which is why there no western surgeons offering it. Western surgeons wont take unnecessary risk because they can be sued very easily. I don't really care what you choose to do lol, I am just stating the facts. And if you are too ignorant, that is fine too. LON has more complications than internal nails, that is a 100% fact and if you want to disagree with that, what a waste of time and everyone is laughing at you.
That doesn't mean everyone can afford the Precise nail and may have to resort to LON. That is fine, everyone is in different financial situations. You are a lot more poor than me so you should take the chances, since you cant afford the safer choice. I support you man!
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I'm gonna be honest. I didn't read most of what you said because of the terrible English. But yes, I am talking about the infections complication with LON which is why there no western surgeons offering it. Western surgeons wont take unnecessary risk because they can be sued very easily. I don't really care what you choose to do lol, I am just stating the facts. And if you are too ignorant, that is fine too. LON has more complications than internal nails, that is a 100% fact and if you want to disagree with that, what a waste of time and everyone is laughing at you.
That doesn't mean everyone can afford the Precise nail and may have to resort to LON. That is fine, everyone is in different financial situations. You are a lot more poor than me so you should take the chances, since you cant afford the safer choice. I support you man!
I looked at your profile, you are a fake diary. Another pathetic person who claims to have surgery without pictures and videos. You should have uploaded the X-ray pictures ;D western surgeons who are telling the truth don't do it for money. Their only goal is to make more money. How do you know everyone is laughing at me? How can you see everyone? I think you are schizophrenic. How do you know that I am poorer than you? What do the risks and advantages of surgery have to do with money? If lon was more expensive, I would defend lon. And I'm sure all surgeons in Europe would do it. It's really hard to talk to stupid people. Also you call me poor, I swear I have enough money to rent your mother for a day. Not everyone gets money from their whore mother like you.
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Prob just a regular session of bowel movement, so I know there's still more poop in me. Shoving the Dulcolax in my ass worked like a charm. It doesnt hurt, feel weird, and I'm not even gay. Apply some lube when you are sitting down in the toilet, shove it in with your index finger. You'll in an hour or so.
@ballsackoffury123 an article from this idiot's diary ;D
He also stays on Airbnb because it is expensive to stay in a hotel. Hey poor. I can support you financially but I want your girlfriend and sister. I can be a sugar daddy. I would like to try this Dulcolax on your sister or girlfriend's gut ;D
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I'm gonna be honest. I am just stating the facts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVS15Aq0_F8
The owner of this video is the disabled of limb lengthening surgery youtube channel. Go to the about section of this youtube channel.
Read the article there, especially this part "I am still receiving treatment in China now . I have had my nail removed and external fixators installed"
It's not less risky just because it's more expensive. The infection in the lon is a skin infection. It does not come into contact with the bone.
I wish the person in this video a speedy recovery, I hope he gets well soon. I wish these idiots were like this instead of these people.
The only dumb thing isn't to lon. Don't you write such stupid articles. My fault. I'm speaking to someone who's trying to put something in their gut...
A lot of people on this forum did lon, including the admin. Now instead of calling these people dumb, tell yourself and your family. I will ignore you now. Now go and keep sticking things in your gut.
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yeah lol you clearly have issues. have fun with life bud, im out lol. If I thought you were normal, I'd prob argue some more. But I feel sorry for you so gonna ignore you and let you continue with your life lol. byeeeeee
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yeah lol you clearly have issues. have fun with life bud, im out lol. If I thought you were normal, I'd prob argue some more. But I feel sorry for you so gonna ignore you and let you continue with your life lol. byeeeeee
Like the word of someone who has nothing to answer. As if there was anything else left to discuss. What can you still defend? Think before you write anything. Or it will be like this. Also what is "byeeeeee"
Anyway, you've learned your lesson now. Now get lost kiddo and don't speak in generalities again. Other people ignore and don't care about you because they are mature and smart. But I can't stand people like you.
Welcome to the fked by me list 1-Kanye western fked. 2- Danishviking fked. Now 3 - Ballsackoffury123 fked 8) BYE DUMB 8)
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People are losing their minds here... Let's get back to topic!
The second doctor I consulted gave me the estimate budget for the femur lengthening.
As I said, I already have a shorter femur than usual and I'm going to do the femur because my tibia is already too long compared to the rest of my body.
He's written on the service budget "Stretching with intramedullary nail with a retrograde entry through the knee". Translated as best as I could LOL
So in the end it's really the LON on the femur with intramedullary nails.
Final cost of USD 28k, 2 months physiotherapy included. Also included here is the 2nd surgery to remove the titanium nails from inside the femurs.
Gonna think about while I await consultation with the 3rd Doctor
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@ballsackoffury123 an article from this idiot's diary ;D
He also stays on Airbnb because it is expensive to stay in a hotel. Hey poor. I can support you financially but I want your girlfriend and sister. I can be a sugar daddy. I would like to try this Dulcolax on your sister or girlfriend's gut ;D
wtf is wrong with you?! the only impression you leave here, is being a retarded dumbfk with a huge inferiority complex 🤡😂
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Don't do LON femurs, its barbaric torture. If you cant afford internal femurs go for LON tibias, or save more for it!!
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dont let these skeptics scare you. you can do lon on femurs, many patients do. just find a good surgeon
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LON femurs is more sacrificed than the tibia but nothing special, it just depends on the person. Just make sure you have good quality flex before surgery. ;D
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you CAN do LON femurs, but LON Femurs should only be done if your alternative is suicide.
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come on sir dramatic, there have been successful segments in both tibia and femur with LON, regardless of the method there will always be risks, that is why cooperation between doctor and patient is important for the success of the operation.
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I agree! The extreme pain, the constant infections and the muscle scarring! Avoid it at all costs unless you want to risk your legs life...
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LON femurs is more sacrificed than the tibia but nothing special, it just depends on the person. Just make sure you have good quality flex before surgery. ;D
What do you mean with "good quality flex" ?
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Talked to a new doctor the day before yesterday
He suggested that I did the femur stretch one leg at a time so I wouldn't need a wheelchair for the recovery period.
I found it strange, because I would have one leg longer than the other for a period. It is common?
Or most people do both femurs at once?
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I meant a good flexibility. By the way, it's the first time I've heard something like that, it sounds a bit atypical. Would you mind saying the name of your new doctor?
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Talked to a new doctor the day before yesterday
He suggested that I did the femur stretch one leg at a time so I wouldn't need a wheelchair for the recovery period.
I found it strange, because I would have one leg longer than the other for a period. It is common?
Or most people do both femurs at once?
It is a known procedure, but like 95% of the people do both legs at one time.
pros of one leg at a time is that you can rely on one leg during the entire time, like you wouldnt do the second leg until the first leg has healed. The con is obviously you will need surgery twice, and that is a lot more expensive because you're paying for double the surgeon's time and also twice the hospital stay. I think most people will recommend doing both legs at a time. If you have partial weight bearing nails, and you dont weight more than 160 pounds, you're gonna be on the walker most of the time after 2 weeks anyways. Aside from when you need to travel long distances, the doctor recommended me use a walker, it'll heal up recovery faster by walking
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I meant a good flexibility. By the way, it's the first time I've heard something like that, it sounds a bit atypical. Would you mind saying the name of your new doctor?
Im not doing it in the US or Europe. Im doing in South America (I live here).
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It is a known procedure, but like 95% of the people do both legs at one time.
pros of one leg at a time is that you can rely on one leg during the entire time, like you wouldnt do the second leg until the first leg has healed. The con is obviously you will need surgery twice, and that is a lot more expensive because you're paying for double the surgeon's time and also twice the hospital stay. I think most people will recommend doing both legs at a time. If you have partial weight bearing nails, and you dont weight more than 160 pounds, you're gonna be on the walker most of the time after 2 weeks anyways. Aside from when you need to travel long distances, the doctor recommended me use a walker, it'll heal up recovery faster by walking
Wow, thanks, very helpful comment.
I weight 132 pounds.
I already imagined that doing both legs would be better. I will have intramedulary nail from the first day out of surgery (LON).
Another interesting thing is that the doctor said that the titanium nail could stay inside the femur forever. That it is a personal matter to take or not to take out.
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Wow, thanks, very helpful comment.
I weight 132 pounds.
I already imagined that doing both legs would be better. I will have intramedulary nail from the first day out of surgery (LON).
Another interesting thing is that the doctor said that the titanium nail could stay inside the femur forever. That it is a personal matter to take or not to take out.
Yeah at 132 pounds you are well below any weight to be in a wheelchair. And I'm pretty sure LON is full weight bearing? I prob wont be able to convince you but LON definitely has potential to have a lot more complications. It is what a lot of doctors in Turkey recommend, but there is a reason no western doctors even offers it. If you can financially afford an internal nail, it is worth the price. But obviously a lot more expensive and it is your life and your decision.
I am more familiar with Precise 2.2 and it is also a titanium nail. Almost all doctors will recommend you get it out within 1 year.
1) It is a much simpler surgery to get it out, you dont even stay overnight in the hospital.
2) When the nail is out, you have more range of motion and you will feel looser. At least that is what almost all patients that gets their nails removed says. No reason to keep a nail in at all when your bones are fully consolidated
3) It will obviously cost money, but it is a procedure some insurance covers. But even out of pocket, it is a fraction of the price of inserting the nail.
I did hours and hours and hours of research prior to getting my surgery. Just offering my own opinions over here so take it with a grain of salt :)
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Completely agree!
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Yeah at 132 pounds you are well below any weight to be in a wheelchair. And I'm pretty sure LON is full weight bearing? I prob wont be able to convince you but LON definitely has potential to have a lot more complications. It is what a lot of doctors in Turkey recommend, but there is a reason no western doctors even offers it. If you can financially afford an internal nail, it is worth the price. But obviously a lot more expensive and it is your life and your decision.
I am more familiar with Precise 2.2 and it is also a titanium nail. Almost all doctors will recommend you get it out within 1 year.
1) It is a much simpler surgery to get it out, you dont even stay overnight in the hospital.
2) When the nail is out, you have more range of motion and you will feel looser. At least that is what almost all patients that gets their nails removed says. No reason to keep a nail in at all when your bones are fully consolidated
3) It will obviously cost money, but it is a procedure some insurance covers. But even out of pocket, it is a fraction of the price of inserting the nail.
I did hours and hours and hours of research prior to getting my surgery. Just offering my own opinions over here so take it with a grain of salt :)
to add to your list
while you have your precice nails in you cant have an MRI, and the thought of never being able to get one in your life especially if you need one down the line is terrifying
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to add to your list
while you have your precice nails in you cant have an MRI, and the thought of never being able to get one in your life especially if you need one down the line is terrifying
yep 100%, and so much more to the list. No one knows the long term effects of having the rare metal of the precise 2.2 in your body for so long.
Nail in your femur replaces where the bone marrow is, when you get it out, it should grow back within a month.
I think consensus is, get them friggen nails out when you're ready (usually around the 1 year mark).
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Thanks everyone for the replies.
Had another talk with my Doctor last week and he suggested I did one femur at a time, so I can have a "good" leg during the stretch process. He said that by doing both legs I wouldn't be able to walk at all during the first 3 months of leg-lengthening... Kinda find that weird since you all said that by being light weight and by having the inside nail I could walk... but hey, Im no Doctor.
Of course, this would double the time needed for recovery, but given your reports of so much pain I've been reading around this forum, I'm thinking that maybe it's better...
Also I just remembered he recommended stretching only only 0.75cm per day (not 1cm as I thought), divided into 3 turns of the device per day.
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Thanks everyone for the replies.
Had another talk with my Doctor last week and he suggested I did one femur at a time, so I can have a "good" leg during the stretch process. He said that by doing both legs I wouldn't be able to walk at all during the first 3 months of leg-lengthening... Kinda find that weird since you all said that by being light weight and by having the inside nail I could walk... but hey, Im no Doctor.
Of course, this would double the time needed for recovery, but given your reports of so much pain I've been reading around this forum, I'm thinking that maybe it's better...
Also I just remembered he recommended stretching only only 0.75cm per day (not 1cm as I thought), divided into 3 turns of the device per day.
Sounds sketch. Which doctor are you talking to? You should be able to walk, and in fact, encouraged to. You just have to use a walker to offload half hour weight when you’re taking a step. But you should be able to stand on both legs without any support.
Also lengthening 1mm early on is pretty standard. Slowing down towards the end based off of how individual body reacts is normal but, early on 1mm is standard practice to almost all doctors. I’m not a doctor, but I’ve talked to many top surgeons.
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Sounds sketch. Which doctor are you talking to? You should be able to walk, and in fact, encouraged to. You just have to use a walker to offload half hour weight when you’re taking a step. But you should be able to stand on both legs without any support.
Also lengthening 1mm early on is pretty standard. Slowing down towards the end based off of how individual body reacts is normal but, early on 1mm is standard practice to almost all doctors. I’m not a doctor, but I’ve talked to many top surgeons.
I've consulted with 3 doctors and I'm pretty much set on one.
They are doctors from Brazil, where I live. I don't intend to leave the country for this type of surgery, for 3 good reasons: 1. Here I have a good health plan. 2. here I have family and legal assistance and 3. the doctors here are good, contrary to what one might imagine
The thing is PRECISE is not widespread here and the 3 that I talked to suggested LON. Id pay for precise but apparently the doctors here don't have the know-how yet.
Im gonna ask him again about the walking stuff and im pretty sure he suggested lengthening only 0.75mm a day
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I've consulted with 3 doctors and I'm pretty much set on one.
They are doctors from Brazil, where I live. I don't intend to leave the country for this type of surgery, for 3 good reasons: 1. Here I have a good health plan. 2. here I have family and legal assistance and 3. the doctors here are good, contrary to what one might imagine
The thing is PRECISE is not widespread here and the 3 that I talked to suggested LON. Id pay for precise but apparently the doctors here don't have the know-how yet.
Im gonna ask him again about the walking stuff and im pretty sure he suggested lengthening only 0.75mm a day
That’s fair, I think logistics plays a bit part, and I wouldn’t leave my country to do this surgery as well. But I’m also blessed to be in the safest country for this, the USA. Please just make sure you do the research for LON. I think LON in general has a lot of higher complications, especially LON femurs. But I’m not gonna be able to change your mind. Do know the doctors that convinces you HAS something to gain from you so they will tell you what you want to hear. I have nothing to gain if you decide to go with it, not go with it. Quite frankly you living or dying doesn’t even impact my life so I am just telling you what I know from over 1 year of research. If you do decide to go with LON, main main complication is infections. Research it as much as you can and how to best prevent it.
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Omg that’s scary :'( Thanks for the links
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If you can afford Precice, go for it because it’s safer not to have external! Also the scars are smaller. I would as well if I could but only has enough for LON right now :'(
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Also doctors prob convince you to do 1 leg at a time because they get more money? whats the price tag total of doing 1 leg at at time vs 2 leg at a time.
Tip here is, some doctors are sketch, and they are just trying to get money and not giving you the best decisions for what you need. Don't be naive and think all doctors are good people and you should listen to them 100% of the time. DO YOUR RESEARCH. The community here is full of people who has went to prestigious doctors like Dr. Paley and just offering you what they know with nothing in return. Their opinions have helped me and I just wish to pay it forward.
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Also doctors prob convince you to do 1 leg at a time because they get more money? whats the price tag total of doing 1 leg at at time vs 2 leg at a time.
Tip here is, some doctors are sketch, and they are just trying to get money and not giving you the best decisions for what you need. Don't be naive and think all doctors are good people and you should listen to them 100% of the time. DO YOUR RESEARCH. The community here is full of people who has went to prestigious doctors like Dr. Paley and just offering you what they know with nothing in return. Their opinions have helped me and I just wish to pay it forward.
He suggested doing 1 leg at a time because I would stay with one 'good' leg and that I'd be fine by myself doing every day stuff. He wouldnt get more money out of it.
I just found out one of Dr. Paleys doctors is gonna be in Brazil next week - dr. Craig Robbins. Along with Dr. S. Robert Rozbruch. Link: https://asamifix.com.br/
Doctors I consulted are just not familiar with precise. Would the pain with precise be inferior to LON? Or the only issue is embolism and scarring?
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He suggested doing 1 leg at a time because I would stay with one 'good' leg and that I'd be fine by myself doing every day stuff. He wouldnt get more money out of it.
I just found out one of Dr. Paleys doctors is gonna be in Brazil next week - dr. Craig Robbins. Along with Dr. S. Robert Rozbruch. Link: https://asamifix.com.br/
Doctors I consulted are just not familiar with precise. Would the pain with precise be inferior to LON? Or the only issue is embolism and scarring?
Not many people have done both LON and precice so it's hard to compare. Precice does seem to be less painful, and also a lot more comfortable. Walking with those things for months isn't fun, not to mention sleeping. And most people do LON tibias, femurs are supposed to be even harder and more painful since there is more muscle to go through etc.
What about LON tibias? Was that an option?
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Still..would you rather get this over with in 6-8 months or double that time period doing 1 leg at a time. How would 2 surgeries not be more expensive than 1? Just booking the hospital OR room and hospital stay twice is money.
But fine, I’m not an expert on LON. So I don’t wanna comment out of my ass. But I recommend you bite the bullet and do it at once rather than twice the tkme
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A new fake profile? Trueman and James Bond, whatever your name is...
I have never written that all that I write is speculation, look at my eairler posts if you don't believe me... You just posted a bunch of nonsense. Pretty much everytime I post something here I have evidence to back it up, not like you and the wolf guy. I only claim what has already been proven to be correct not like you guys argumenting with zero facts and your personal opinion. I don't choose Dr Giotikas and Greece over everything. If you look at my earlier post I actually tell people to go with Paley in US if they have the money, but most people don't have that amount. So no your interpretation of me being bias towards Dr G is not accurate and hey if you want to avoid all western surgeons advice of avoiding LON, then go ahead and do it. But their is a high chance of you ending up cripled, getting Deep infection or something third compared to an internal method with Femurs... We have seen it many times people ending up butchered by LON and their turkish/indian surgeons.
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=78209.0
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=79700.0
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=78387.0
I can find more evidence if you want but is this enough for you? ;)
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Dont listen to the nonsense, femurs is very invasive compared to the tibias although it recovers faster, it has a higher complication rate. Dont think of the pain difference as nothing, femurs is way more painful compared to tibias and it can affect the results. LON tibias is still very common.
Exactly.
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Look at this guy doing tibia, he looks like a clown.
https://drpiliortopedico.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/PRIMA-E-DOPO-8-cm-1-mese-post-rimozione-11-mesi-post-op.jpg
Are you serious? This picture was fake and used for meme. You can see it on many like reddit - 4chan.
https://i.imgur.com/aqMqDk2.jpg
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How much nonsense there is. Don't speculate on things you don't know. If you have a long femur and a short tibia, you will look like an alien if you lengthen your femur. Lengthen the shorter limb, not the longer one. This will make your legs look beautiful. If your tibia and femur are equal let's compare. The femur bone is curved and will not be the same as the one you extended. While it will be 100% in the tibia, it will not be 100% in the femur. Also, no matter what method you do, the femur will be more painful, trust me. It will hurt more because there are more muscle vascular nerves in the femoral region. In addition, your gait will be very impaired and it will take more time for you to walk properly than those with tibias. Cosmetically, the tibia is always better. If your femurs are not short, definitely go to the tibia. Unfortunately, there are no 100% load bearing nails. That's why most of the people who don't want their nails to break do lon. If you're going to lon just do the tibias. If you make a femur, you will regret it. Cosmetically, the inner nail is always better, but there is not much risk between the lon method and these methods. There are many patients with complications such as Precice2-Stryde who have had surgery with their nails, have had a bone infection, have broken the nail from the inside. The risks are almost the same as with the loners. The 0.1% difference isn't that big of a deal. Whatever method you do, your bones will be broken and some things depend on your body.
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Scheduled my surgery for mid-September.
Gonna go with LON on both femurs, trying 6cm to 8cm.
My mom's gonna stay with me the first 2 months and then Im on my own, probably gonna hire a part-time nurse or something.
Doc said I wouldnt walk in the first 3 to 4 months of stretching.
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I have to buy a wheelchair soon to get around during the 4 months of the distraction.
Should I buy a wheelchair that the footrest lifts and folds?
Or a regular one should be fine? (I am in doubt if I will have difficulty bending my knee after surgery.)
Im doing both femurs (LON).
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Go with LON tibias if you can. LON femurs is torturous and typically only internal femurs is recommended.
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LON femurs is very uncomfortable mate.
I didnt even know any doctors still offered that I’m assuming youve chosen a turkish doctor?
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Are you serious? This picture was fake and used for meme. You can see it on many like reddit - 4chan.
https://i.imgur.com/aqMqDk2.jpg
No the OG 181 cm pic is real from the diary he got 7-8 cm on Tibias with Catagni I believe his diary is here somewhere or on the old forum.
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Im ready to endure the pain. Any suggestions on a wheelchair?
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How is your mindset like now?
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How is your mindset like now?
Stretching daily, trying to eat healthy, making final arrangements, trying not to overthink stuff.
My health plan's already authorized the surgery so I wont go back
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How did you get insurance to cover a cosmetic procedure?
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How did you get insurance to cover a cosmetic procedure?
My Doctor did a really good job building a case and trying to convince the health firm.
I thought it wouldn't work, but I insisted and they'll pay for almost everything.
Although this was the 3rd Doctor I consulted, the others wouldnt even try (lost cause as they said)
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What country was this?
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I'm about to confirm my surgery at the end of November (LON on femurs). I'm just in doubt about the doctor's recommendation not to put any load on the legs for the 3 months of stretching.
I'm only 124 pounds and I don't know if a little load would be really a problem. I could use a walker, for example.
Doctor mailed me the nail and fixator models - apparently he's using this one: DePuySynthes
https://www.jnjmedtech.com/pt-br/companies/depuy-synthes
Any thoughts on weightbearing and the material purchased?
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Hey, there,
I had the surgery 11 days ago and I started stretching/twisting 5 days ago.
I haven't had any complications, but what has irritated me is that the external fixators are misaligned. The one on the right leg is perpendicular to the thigh, but the one on the left leg is angled downwards, which causes discomfort.
I imagine that this can only be corrected with another surgery, but I'll still ask the doctor tomorrow.
The bad thing about the angulation is that your leg is pressed against the fixator when sitting and lying down... and the back pins are also taking longer to heal due to the frequent movement of the hip, with the brace scraping against the bed/chair. I don't know what the doctor will tell me, but if anyone has any opinion I would appreciate it.
Uploaded 2 pics, front view:
(https://i.postimg.cc/K13pnHnP/front01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K13pnHnP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/yJqQnyPw/front02.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJqQnyPw)
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DO NOT GO FOR TIBIA SURGERY. I will repeat myself! Complication rate for Tibia is higher no matter what other people are trying to tell you. Because of the alignment that easily can be screwed up between tibia and fibular espically if it is without a nail inside the bone. This can give you issues with walking without pain for the rest of your life, happens to many Tibia patients. Do you really wanna wear giant fixators for like 10 Months / 5 cm? Femurs heal faster, barely any chance of malalignment, and almost zero chance of you delevoping deep infections that can be deadly.
Summarize internal Femur: Safer, less complications, easier to hide, quickest. Almost any western doctor recommends internal femur over any external method including Rozbruch, Paley etc... And these are some of the best surgeons in the world!
AND THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ALL! You doing this surgery to gain as much height as possible and with the femurs you can get up to 8 cm safely, where for the tibias only 5 cm safely. Most who go over gets into serious complications unless there starting height is like 173+ cm.
On his interview with Cyborg4Life, Paley said that externals are a viable option if you're doing it with a skilled surgeon that has experience with the technique. He did externals all through the 80s and 90s and he invented(or he claims to have invented) LON. He did LON on both femurs and tibias.
I timestamped it(2:37:00):
https://youtu.be/yqVxTCMjuVo?t=9423
There are articles on pubmed showing that, LON has been superior in many instances to early (mechanical) internal nails but it's inferior to the modern magnetic nails due to, among other things, being less precise.
LON on femurs, in particular, is painful because the pins will cut the quad muscles a bit. However, after a year of recovery, the lasting damage is not significantly different from internal methods.
Externals also risk infection but most infections can be safely treated with antibiotics.
Here is Paley's original LON article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9378732/
Twenty-nine patients (thirty-two femora) had femoral lengthening over an intramedullary nail(...)There were six refractures of the distraction bone in the matched-case group. In the group that had had lengthening over an intramedullary nail, one nail and one proximal locking screw failed. The over-all rate of complications was 1.4 per cent in the group that had had lengthening over an intramedullary nail compared with 1.9 per cent in the matched-case group.
No deadly bone infections, no completely destroyed quad muscles etc.
Why western doctors do not do it? Because they don't need to. These doctors are multimillionaires and have an endless stream of patients willing to pay for internals. Internals give the patients higher satisfaction and they will rate the doctor highly. They don't need to bother doing externals anymore but they do it for deformities as the TSF is useful for that.
One of the reasons you guys see more LON complications is that a lot of doctors doing LON femurs are crap. Just because some butcher in India is crippling people with LON femurs does not mean the thousand of patients treated with LON by Paley in the 90s are now crippled.
LON is old school, it's more painful and sleeping with frames is a pain. It isn't the worst method, it won't necessarily lead to deformities, bone infections, torn muscles etc.
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Hey, there,
I had the surgery 11 days ago and I started stretching/twisting 5 days ago.
I haven't had any complications, but what has irritated me is that the external fixators are misaligned. The one on the right leg is perpendicular to the thigh, but the one on the left leg is angled downwards, which causes discomfort.
I imagine that this can only be corrected with another surgery, but I'll still ask the doctor tomorrow.
The bad thing about the angulation is that your leg is pressed against the fixator when sitting and lying down... and the back pins are also taking longer to heal due to the frequent movement of the hip, with the brace scraping against the bed/chair. I don't know what the doctor will tell me, but if anyone has any opinion I would appreciate it.
Uploaded 2 pics, front view:
(https://i.postimg.cc/K13pnHnP/front01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K13pnHnP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/yJqQnyPw/front02.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJqQnyPw)
Good luck, dude. I'm also from Brazil, I'd love to do the surgery here because of the logistics. There are tons of good surgeons in Brazil that have done thousands of surgeries and treated many patients with disabilities, what we don't have is a famous surgeon that does cosmetic leg lengthening. However a doctor that is used to treat deformed bones should have no problem doing CLL. I will send you a PM.
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good luck dude. im sure those are weight bearing and u could continue to walk and stretch so u can recover faster.
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On his interview with Cyborg4Life, Paley said that externals are a viable option if you're doing it with a skilled surgeon that has experience with the technique. He did externals all through the 80s and 90s and he invented(or he claims to have invented) LON. He did LON on both femurs and tibias.
I timestamped it(2:37:00):
https://youtu.be/yqVxTCMjuVo?t=9423
There are articles on pubmed showing that, LON has been superior in many instances to early (mechanical) internal nails but it's inferior to the modern magnetic nails due to, among other things, being less precise.
LON on femurs, in particular, is painful because the pins will cut the quad muscles a bit. However, after a year of recovery, the lasting damage is not significantly different from internal methods.
Externals also risk infection but most infections can be safely treated with antibiotics.
Here is Paley's original LON article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9378732/No deadly bone infections, no completely destroyed quad muscles etc.
Why western doctors do not do it? Because they don't need to. These doctors are multimillionaires and have an endless stream of patients willing to pay for internals. Internals give the patients higher satisfaction and they will rate the doctor highly. They don't need to bother doing externals anymore but they do it for deformities as the TSF is useful for that.
One of the reasons you guys see more LON complications is that a lot of doctors doing LON femurs are crap. Just because some butcher in India is crippling people with LON femurs does not mean the thousand of patients treated with LON by Paley in the 90s are now crippled.
LON is old school, it's more painful and sleeping with frames is a pain. It isn't the worst method, it won't necessarily lead to deformities, bone infections, torn muscles etc.
im just wondering if people were doing these in the 90s. i mean the internet wasnt as popular as today to find information about LL. or even find a surgeon in a different state. even pt was probably difficult back then. pretty sure costmetic LL only got popular in the 2000 when the internet was more accessible n news articles advertising it.
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im just wondering if people were doing these in the 90s. i mean the internet wasnt as popular as today to find information about LL. or even find a surgeon in a different state. even pt was probably difficult back then. pretty sure costmetic LL only got popular in the 2000 when the internet was more accessible n news articles advertising it.
Paley says he started doing CLL in the late 80s but only for people below 5'4" or with dwarfism. I'd bet it was mostly rich people. Rich people get access to medical treatment a lot earlier than the general population. For example, rich kids have been doing HGH if they even suspect they will have short stature since the late 80s so they're mostly tall.
But, of course, people were doing it for limb length discrepancy since Ilizarov. And LON was used since 1990. It's fundamentally the same process.
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I'm on day 17 post-surgery. Range of motion has improved. I have been stretching 1mm a day since
February 16th Jan 25th (edited, wrong date)
my physiotherapist is very good, I'm lucky to have found her. USD 20 per hour.
here is a video of me doin an exercise:
https://shorturl.at/xAIJ9 (https://shorturl.at/xAIJ9)
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15 days of stretching and approximately 1.5 cm stretched.
I just thought it was a little odd that the broken parts of the femurs were a lil misaligned, but the doctor said everything was ok.
Sure hurts like hell, but been manageable so far
https://postimg.cc/bS0NxS1G
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Geez, Forum has been out for more than 20 days!
3.5 cm done already
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Is it kinda miserable while lengthening or are you able to enjoy life.
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Miserable during PT and in moments of pain, miserable because you can't live the way you lived before. If you're an outsy person you might get a lil down.
But it's a process that won't leave you useless, you can still browse the internet, eat everything, talk, work (home office).
It's far from being pleasant, but you keep going cause u got a goal and thats it.
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Regarding hygiene and care for the fixator pins, I read that there are people who didn't take a shower at all during the entire stretching period! I, on the other hand, take a shower every day. I do not see any problems.
As you can see by the images below, the skin engulfs the pins, leaving little space for water to enter. There is lymph leakage, no blood, so bandages are changed daily.
These images are from the 40th day of stretching, around 3.5 cm
https://freeimage.host/i/JWHnKhl
https://freeimage.host/i/JWHnFI4
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Does anyone know if taking anti-inflammatories while stretching is harmful?
Today, exceptionally, I took one, and I felt great. But the Doctor said that one should avoid taking them as much as possible.
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Does anyone know if taking anti-inflammatories while stretching is harmful?
Today, exceptionally, I took one, and I felt great. But the Doctor said that one should avoid taking them as much as possible.
Taking them for too long has been linked with negatively impacting bone regeneration. Docs will give them to you for a brief period after surgery, but will then ween you off them.
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Taking them for too long has been linked with negatively impacting bone regeneration. Docs will give them to you for a brief period after surgery, but will then ween you off them.
Thanks, I had that idea. But the anti-inflammatory is so much more wonderful than any other painkiller that I wanted to take it every day.
Just yesterday I was having this unbearable pain in the glute region close to the femur, and after taking the anti-inflammatory prescribed by the Doc, the pain disappeared for immediately. Only today did I remember the pain again. Sad
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Those are the x-rays I took today (reached 4cm mark).
Is this slight misalignment between the directions of the top and bottom bone fragments something to worry about?
3rd image is my right femur pre-op
Right femur https://freeimage.host/i/JWUc20F
Left femur https://freeimage.host/i/JWUcdf1
Right femur pre-op https://freeimage.host/i/JWUcHiP
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Just reached 4.5 cm today and, boy oh boy, am I getting stiffy.
Leg doesnt hurt at all but PT is painfull as hell, not due to muscle pain, but because of all the pins going through my leg. That's the worst part of going LON rather than any internal nail process.
Since I'm plan on stopping at the 6 cm mark or maybe lower, at 5.5 cm, I feel some relief already, even though im stretching only 0.75 a day.
All the dudes going up to 8 cm on LON are the real heros, I don't think I could do it.
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Finished stretching at 5.2cm (LON FEMURS), it just wouldnt go further, sadly.
I started to have numbness in my right leg and a slight tingling and I decided to stop.
I also noticed that not every turn of the device resulted in increased distraction. Much was lost in the twisting of the pins, which bent a little, perhaps due to the resistance of the legs.
Anyway, now I removed the external frame and its a whole new journey of PT to get straightened again!
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After removing the external fixators, my legs are starting to improve. The pin holes are mostly healed, and in a few days I will have the stitches removed.
But as you can see, it will leave some pretty ugly scars on the outside of my thighs.
(https://i.postimg.cc/06r38NJn/SIDE-LEG-STITCHES.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06r38NJn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QBPzVrQ3/SIDE-LEG-STITCHES2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QBPzVrQ3)
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5.2 cm is a pretty good stopping point esp considering this is LON femurs.
Don't worry about the scars too much, there are laser surgeries to get rid of those for you so get it once you're fully recovered.
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5.2 cm is a pretty good stopping point esp considering this is LON femurs.
Don't worry about the scars too much, there are laser surgeries to get rid of those for you so get it once you're fully recovered.
Thanks!
Removed stitches the day before yesterday. Healing ok, but scars gonna take long to fade. Here are some pics I just took
(https://i.postimg.cc/8JHSBVjY/scar01250424.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8JHSBVjY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/H8kC6PMk/scar02250424.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/H8kC6PMk)
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Thanks!
Removed stitches the day before yesterday. Healing ok, but scars gonna take long to fade. Here are some pics I just took
(https://i.postimg.cc/8JHSBVjY/scar01250424.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8JHSBVjY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/H8kC6PMk/scar02250424.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/H8kC6PMk)
It's been a month, how are you doing? Are you able to walk?