Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Height & Proportions => Topic started by: KiloKAHN on May 11, 2015, 05:45:15 PM
-
Here's a picture of a former CLL patient who lengthened his tibias 6 cm. He wishes to remain anonymous. What do you think of his proportions?
(http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/23099494_1282376.png) (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/23099494/1282376.png.html)
-
Hi is fine right now. But if he do more lengthening he would look disproportionate. His legs are long right now. And his tibia / femur ratio is around the same length
-
Not really noticable, he seems to have long arms though.
Wheight training is also a good way to avoid a disproportional look, he's a good example for this I think.
-
Tibia patients are generally harder to spot disproportion than femur patients. As another poster mentioned he has long arms so it masks any lengthening well. He could pull off maybe 4-5 cm femur max if he were to lengthen more.
-
I have to add that he shouldn't wear the socks in this picture, they let his tibs appear a little shorter than they acutally are.
-
You could instantly see that he did his tibias. The hypertrophy on his calfs is there. The lack of quad muscles on his thighs making him look like he has knock knees/X-legs. It's just not natural with knees that high up on a person.
It doesn't matter bc nobody would care anyway.
But these proportions doesn't occur naturally.
-
You could instantly see that he did his tibias. The hypertrophy on his calfs is there. The lack of quad muscles on his thighs making him look like he has knock knees/X-legs. It's just not natural with knees that high up on a person.
It doesn't matter bc nobody would care anyway.
But these proportions doesn't occur naturally.
No, most people aren't even aware that this surgery exists. Maybe they'll spot that something is slightly "off" but I doubt it.
-
Doesn't anyone notice that he's wearing pants on his hips instead of waist? That's a perception trick used by Master Illusionist Apo. It does two things: 1) makes your legs visually appear shorter (specifically your femurs (one of the reasons you want to lengthen your femurs if you're going just for one surgery) 2) makes your torso appear longer. In the end, the difference can be quite noticable. Say, wearing your pants 5 cm below waist (approx) makes your femurs appear 5 cm shorter and your torso 5 cm longer. That's a 10 cm difference, which results in a big, albeit only visual, SH/H ratio change. Try sitting next time, if you want to get a real judge of your proportions.
-
I always wear my pants at the hips actually, that's goint to be a must if I lengthen my femurs anyway.
-
He has a super tall silhouette. But he'd look fine with some pants on, like that naturally long-legged guy posted here.
-
do we know his exact height measurements of the tibia and femur, to see if he is in the normal ratio.
to me it looks like his tibia is the same length as his femur, but I'm not sure what real issues that could have on a person.
-
Basically no one is in the normal ratio after LL, it's all about having a weird ratio but being able to hide it.
The only option is lengthening both segments but then your legs to torso ratio is not in the normal ratio anymore.
-
well no because its all about wingspan in that case, apotheosis looked normal after 2xLL because he had long arms.
but people with long tibias, then only do LL on tibia, will look odd in that case.
But more importantly won't it feel unnatural to walk with longer than normal tibias?
-
I am 99% sure that he won't look normal anymore when you see him in real life. Please don't forget that he always worked with cheap tricks to make LL seem easier and better than it actually is.
I honestly think that he looks far from normal, he just looks better than others if they did this crazy amount.
-
are you speaking of apotheosis, no he actually looked pretty normal, he showed his wingspan and all, there ware pictures, I don't think they were edited in any real way.
jungle on old forum looked good on his pics going from 5 2 to 5 7.
-
Apotheosis looks more normal because he did internal humerus lengthening with Dr Betz.
-
wow he did arm lengthening!
I don't think that was mentioned before.
-
Did you see his running videos? They look far from normal, his legs are just too long for his body to handle it properly when he moves fast.
-
Apotheosis looks more normal because he did internal humerus lengthening with Dr Betz.
I'm really interested in learning more about his experience, do you think he would come here and answer our questions if we aksed?
-
I'm really interested in learning more about his experience, do you think he would come here and answer our questions if we aksed?
I think that would be beneficial for many prospective lengtheners, and I think he might be up for it. However, he has tried to come on this site to answer questions before and our moderation banned him nearly immediately. Apotheosis has displayed questionable honestly in the past so I understand that there is a proverbial can of worms involved with allowing him on the site. The user "Bubba" is actually Apotheosis, though, but he only posted three times to insult the user "4Cms". I don't know if "Bubba" is currently banned or not.
-
Wow I didn't know Apo did arm lengthening either. No wonder he doesn't look too bad. The steroids help him too. ;) That's quite a commitment he's made. Tibs/femurs & humerus. Honestly I would love to meet this guy IRL and have a beer with him. Online though, he's not a very useful presence and I'm glad he doesn't post here. Old forum has too much of a hostile dck measuring contest or locker room atmosphere and it's mostly due to his influence. Feels a bit like a shrine he's built just for himself and his "circle". I respect the dedication to LL though.
As for the OP pic, I think he would have been better off doing femurs. The tibias look a little long. But no, I don't think anyone would really know what to make of it if they saw him. I doubt they'd recognize it because people don't generally know this surgery exists. He must have had long tibias to begin with, since 6 cm is not too much.
Overall, we'd have to ask him to know, but the questions would be: Are you happier being taller with abnormally long shins, or would you rather be short again? I'm guessing he'd say he prefers being taller. Most people who do this seem to.
-
Have you ever heard about the rule that your sitting height should be about 51% of your overall height to have ideal proportions. ?
-
This is me after 6cm, at a height of 183cm with a 183/184cm wingspan. As you can tell, the tibia are just as long as femurs. When I walk down a street with windowed reflective walls it is unnerving to see the knee so high. Obviously, lengthening between the two segments, with the tibia LL at 3-4cm, and femurs 5-6cm, would be ideal and able to be concealed well. I will say that being taller does outweigh the disproportion, but having the length in proportion by two surgeries would have been more ideal, and an absolute ideal of course would have been being 184cm naturally...
-
Is there a negative sie effect of the lengthening besides the slight disproportion?
In terms of sports or in general physical activities?
-
Yes. The scars from external inhibit you from wearing shorts in the summer without embarrassment. I need to find a viable manner of getting rid of them that isn't thousands of dollars. Athleticism will simply never be the same. I can do pretty much everything now, but it just feels clumsy compared to before. I can run, but I don't know how it looks to others, and try to avoid it when possible. It's hard to say if I regret it fully. There are days when I do and days when I don't, depending on the circumstances of the day.
-
Hey Polycrates, when did you have your tibia LL? I'm not too familiar with your story.
I feel like proportions really are just what the individual person wants for their own aesthetics. I always thought I had short tibias, but Dr. G measured me in Milano, and said my femurs were short and that I was a great candidate for internal femur LL. I did 7cm, and my femurs only look a tad long when I pull my pants up in front of the mirror (but they are also still fairly thin compared to how they used to be, with more muscle, they'll look great). I might do another inch next year and I still think I'll look ok. Some have warned against it, but most seem to think I will still be mostly proportionate after another femur inch.
Has anyone ever commented on your proportions, or this this just your personal dissatisfaction? I agree, in a perfect world, we'd all do two LLs to keep the proportions...but LL is such an expensive and arduous process that I think most of us are ok with slightly messed up proportions for the height gain (and to be done after one LL).
I would do another inch in tibias, but even for an inch, it's like a ridiculously long recovery time. So, I'd rather deal with slightly long femurs (they look fine now) and be 5'9" and be done with this sh*t once and for all (while also avoiding more overtly visible scars).
-
No one has commented outright, but there have been numerous occasions where people will stare down and then up at me as I enter a room. This might just be normal human nature, but it's not something I ever noticed before. I remember entering a police station and asking a woman police officer for directions to where I needed to go to fill out a form. As I left, I swore I heard her mention to the other, "don't his legs look really long?" At one place I was working at briefly, it seemed that everyone was watching my legs at one point, so I think rumour spread that something was off about me and people wanted to check it out.
I have 97-99th percentile knee height, so I do think the human subconscious can detect something astray, especially when you have to demonstrate bending and kneeling in front of others. I hate sitting with 6'2+ guys because their femurs and torsos dwarf mine, but my knees are quite a bit higher than theirs always.
-
No one has commented outright, but there have been numerous occasions where people will stare down and then up at me as I enter a room. This might just be normal human nature, but it's not something I ever noticed before. I remember entering a police station and asking a woman police officer for directions to where I needed to go to fill out a form. As I left, I swore I heard her mention to the other, "don't his legs look really long?" At one place I was working at briefly, it seemed that everyone was watching my legs at one point, so I think rumour spread that something was off about me and people wanted to check it out.
I have 97-99th percentile knee height, so I do think the human subconscious can detect something astray, especially when you have to demonstrate bending and kneeling in front of others. I hate sitting with 6'2+ guys because there femurs and torsos dwarf mine, but my knees are quite a bit higher than there's always.
What are your femur/tibia and height/wingspan ratios? I've never had people stare at me or make any weird comments about my proportions. My tibia and femurs are equal, and my height and wingspan are equal.
-
My wingspan is equal to my current height (173). When I sit next to taller guys on the train, my femurs don't seem crazily out of proportion or anything at all. I'm fairly confident my femurs would handle another inch, but want to see what my legs look like with some more bulk first (particularly my quads and ass need work).
I think only people who know about LL like we do are the only ones that would really notice. Polycrates, at your work place, maybe word might have gotten out, so that's why people were looking. I'm sure you don't look that much out of proportion where people would notice/comment on a day-to-day basis.
-
(http://s5.postimg.org/whgo8a243/prop.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/whgo8a243/)
-
Honestly I think you look fine, although clothes can somewhat hide disproportions. But like you said, the height is worth it.
-
That is all that I can hope for from others who view this. I'm sure if you asked someone to spot something off and they took a long hard look they might point out the ratio abnormality, but as long as people can honestly answer that it's not an instant or immediate call to attention as it is for me, then that would be good peace of mine. I see it right away, but that's probably because it's the one thing I'm looking for.
-
I thought having a tibia the same as femur was statistically possible?
-
(http://s5.postimg.org/x4k6bjodz/sit.png) (http://postimage.org/)
image post (http://postimage.org/)
-
Because I started at an average height, the extra 2+ inches puts my knees in a very high +99%ile. I had a a few studies downloaded, one of which was an army study from 1995. An extra inch from the 50th percentile of knee height was the 85th percentile, and an additional inch and a bit on top of that was the 99th percentile.
I also read another study where +/-2 standard deviations from average tibial length was 5.62cm. I had wanted to do 5.5cm initially, and was told at the end that I had done 6.3cm.... I would've done 2cm less than I have and had been content with it if I could go back.
-
it's noticable, but i'm not sure what the impact would be in your life, some people have quirky things about them like lazy eye etc. to me that isn't too hard to live with, i personally can't think of any point in my life while sitting down if i have looked at peoples tib to femur ratio.
I love to wear shorts around the house, I take it you look a bit wierd in shorts?
I think i would end up in your situation anyway, pretty sure post op i will have tib and femur ratio being the same, isnt' that what most people end up like after 1x LL?
-
Does people notice your long legs or your tall tibiae?
Perhaps both?
-
Probably, based on all the looks.
-
Polycrates,
Do you think your disproportion would be less noticable if you added the height to your femurs intead of your tibias?
From what I've seen so far tibia patients are generally easiert to spot in terms of proportions, would you agree on that?
-
The only way would have been to do it along both segments.
-
It could also be that photos magnify the effect, or that mirrors mitigate the effect, because when I bend my leg and look in a mirror, it doesn't look odd. When I take a photo of it, then the disproportion becomes apparent...
-
I also think you are looking better than on the pictures
-
My sitting height is just under 90cm, so my legs are 4 cm longer than upper body, giving me a 0.49 SHR. That puts me at about 1 standard deviation below average sitting height, as per this thread: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=174.0, so I am definitely long legged. Programdude is the only person I've had a chance to see in person, and he did mention me being long legged, but not disproportional.
-
My sitting height is just under 90cm, so my legs are 4 cm longer than upper body, giving me a 0.49 SHR. That puts me at about 1 standard deviation below average sitting height, as per this thread: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=174.0, so I am definitely long legged. Programdude is the only person I've had a chance to see in person, and he did mention me being long legged, but not disproportional.
Your sitting height right under 90cm? Interesting, my sitting height is like 89cm (per Dr. G)...and I think you were already a good amount taller than me (I was 166cm before LL).
PD is also an LL patient of course, so maybe he was looking for it? Most people I'm sure won't know/care that much.
-
Were you a bit overweight or have large thigh muscles? Perhaps that elevated you to 90cm. Interesting to note that I am 1sd below average dutch sitting height, but 1sd above average dutch leg length, as per this site: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1720514/
It also says, since I am 50th percentile dutch height (0sd), I could qualify for Marfan syndrome with my SHR...
-
Were you a bit overweight or have large thigh muscles? Perhaps that elevated you to 90cm.
Yeah that was probably it, I have/had naturally big thighs/big butt. Not so much now, but working on getting them back. Hoping muscle mememory and hard work eventually help me.
-
What was your starting height polycrates? I suppose around 177?
I measured my sitting height a couple of times now and it was always between 96-98cm at a height of 178≈. I do have a long upperbody and a long neck but your SH seems a bit low for your height, doesn't it? Or would you describe your SH as average? I'm just curious because the numbers are so different although our genetic height is almost the same.
-
90/178~=0.51, so it was spot on average pretty much. Yours, at 0.55, is extremely high for the height.
-
My sitting height is just under 90cm, so my legs are 4 cm longer than upper body, giving me a 0.49 SHR. That puts me at about 1 standard deviation below average sitting height, as per this thread: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=174.0, so I am definitely long legged. Programdude is the only person I've had a chance to see in person, and he did mention me being long legged, but not disproportional.
I don´t know my sitting height but I believe my "true inseam" (measured from a book shoved up my crotch) is 46% of my total height. If I lengthen 7CM it will be about 47,8%, I´ve looked at my proportions after 7CM and I do look quite long-legged in 3CM shoes. I recommend that you try to widen your shoulders as that mitigates the "lanky" effect, that was my advice when you asked my thoughts in a PM as well.
Oh, and is programdude as good looking as he says IRL?
-
From the Dutch study scatter plot, it shows that I am still in the circle of normalcy with my SHR and overall height. Quite a few dots around it, actually.
-
Oh, and is programdude as good looking as he says IRL?
I was about to ask him the same question lol ;D
-
I wouldn't be at liberty to say; beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;)
-
I wouldn't be at liberty to say; beauty is in the eye of the beholder ;)
Such a cop-out
-
I have 90/ 91cm sitting height for 165. So i think is perfectly normal
-
I am still happy that I did tibia. My femurs already look long in the sitting photo. I can imagine what an extra 6cm outward with short tibia would look like. With tibia they look as long as femurs but not drastically noticeable in my opinion.
-
(http://s5.postimg.org/uusdpsnxz/2015_06_29_14_29_03.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4mh90f3ub/full/)
free photo hosting (http://postimage.org/)
Here is a standing view. Looks less obvious than the sitting in my view.
-
yOU LOOK FINE DUDE DON'T OBSESS
-
I agree it's concealable. The only one that really sticks out to me is the sitting one, but I guess I can sit with legs folded under to mitigate that effect.
-
while i was outside today i tried to see if i could tell where peoples kneecaps were, pretty hard to do so, and that would only be possible from a distance, as soon as you were beside someone you couldn't tell where his kneecaps were.
-
Maybe. It is easy for me to see, and when sitting, that is the worst time to see the disparity.
-
Actually, yeah that's pretty true, also i noticed while walking you can easily look down at your knees yourself and see you kneecaps, but i don't think others can.
-
I don't think your tibs look abnormally long. It's probably something you are focusing on too much but no one else notices. What is your knee height?
-
My knee height from floor to top of knee, measured with a tissue box, is 24in. I put that (60cm) into this calculator, and got 184cm, which is exactly what I am (maybe a cm under at most).... Quite odd, since my proportions are not typical of a 6ft1'er...
http://www.rxkinetics.com/height_estimate.html
-
Also, this site:
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Human/Human_sizes.html
Showing knee height of 2cm less than mine as the 95th percentile, with the correlating 95th percentile of stature being 186cm. So I am 2cm less than 95th percentile height, but have a knee height 2cm higher - so close, but not quite correlating to the correct percentile of height. I should be 6'2+ with this knee height, under normal circumstances, as I have found to be the case in comparison. People with my knee height are 6'4+, from observation.
-
The formula is probably not correct, I received height of around 166 according to the formula for my knee height of 50-51, although my knees are only slightly shorter than the knees of people at my height.
No way the knees of a guy how is 5-6cm´s taller than me are on average 9cm´s higher than mine.