Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: rafi2296 on July 16, 2022, 03:05:29 PM
-
LON Femur - broken bones not straight
Hi everyone, i am 2 weeks post operation and i got some new x-rays and i noticed my bones are bend (not broken straight) , should i be worried?
https://ibb.co/z82pxwG
https://ibb.co/fr4LqY4
i have lengthened 1cm and i been advised to start lengthening 1.5mm / day to avoid fast consolidation. what do you guys think? thanks
-
>LON femur
>1.5mm per day
>obvious bilateral misalignment
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/021/464/14608107_1180665285312703_1558693314_n.jpg)
gee, i wonder which doctor that might be
OP, why dont you send your xrays to a few doctors emails to ask for opinion? i hear assayag is responsive through email so he might be one of them
-
before the surgery, how did your legs look like when you were standing?
-
before the surgery, how did your legs look like when you were standing?
yeah op should ask buldu for his pre surgery xrays to compare the bone curvature
but from where im standing those bones are misaligned
i thought the nail was inserted before the osteotomy not after as it looks like here
-
Unfortunately i do not have the x-rays before surgery at the moment , i have those , which are right after the surgery. https://ibb.co/6Y55zSP
https://ibb.co/WHb92Vn
Unfortunately my doctor is not very communicative and i’m getting information through some associates. Answer are always “everything is normal, don’t worry” , that’s why i came here for more answers and opinions.
-
It looks off to the untrained eye, but I've seen a lot of gaps like this and they're not always a problem. It's sometimes OK for them to be a little off.
-
it looks like there is a lot of place in your bones, maybe the holes were drilled to big? Or your bones inside is not strong enough
(https://i.ibb.co/JswzgF3/marked.jpg)
-
>LON femur
>1.5mm per day
>obvious bilateral misalignment
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/021/464/14608107_1180665285312703_1558693314_n.jpg)
gee, i wonder which doctor that might be
OP, why dont you send your xrays to a few doctors emails to ask for opinion? i hear assayag is responsive through email so he might be one of them
Which Doctot are you mentioning? Just curious.
The only Doctors I see reguarly that have problem with over lenghtening patients is Guichet and the LiveLifeTaller team. Although seeing the X-rays ( looks very familiar to many people that suffered from complication ) I would say LiveLifeTaller.
-
what complications i should expect? im already pretty scared and thinking to remove the device at 3 or 4 cm to have less risks as possible. not to mention the pain im already going through.
i dont want to mention doctor’s name or company yet. i dont want to get more problems beside what i have now or less communication from his side.
-
what complications i should expect? im already pretty scared and thinking to remove the device at 3 or 4 cm to have less risks as possible. not to mention the pain im already going through.
i dont want to mention doctor’s name or company yet. i dont want to get more problems beside what i have now or less communication from his side.
rafi you need to ask your assistant for your presurgery xrays, they are your property, do not be scared of their bullying
have in mind that buldu’s employees are notorious for always using the “everything’s fine” like even when there are current ongoing serious complications
a user here named hasaki developed an infection during the first surgery and had daily discharge of thick white pus and they kept telling him “its fine its fine”
so now, you get your pre surgery xrays and then write emails to these doctors
1 assayag
2 giotikas
and politely ask them to take a look at your xrays and share their opinion and what can be done about it right now when youre still lengthening
if this ends up as bilateral misalignment + 4cm more of bone that would turn into femoral valgus deformity
or it coulr turn into nothing at all, but who’d want to take that chance
also, dont upload screenshots of your camera roll before cropping your xrays, we see your face down in the camera roll
-
As far as I know, CLL surgery by less skilled doctors is prone to deformity(valgus-flexion deformity of the tibia, varus-flexion deformity of the femur).
Circle type frames can easily correct the deformity, but it may be difficult with monorail.
I don't know if this deformity is severe or not, but if you want treatment, I think you can have a corrective surgery after consolidation.
-
As far as I know, CLL surgery by less skilled doctors is prone to deformity(valgus-flexion deformity of the tibia, varus-flexion deformity of the femur).
Circle type frames can easily correct the deformity, but it may be difficult with monorail.
I don't know if this deformity is severe or not, but if you want treatment, I think you can have a corrective surgery after consolidation.
if this turns out to be what it looks like that would be another example of shocking incompetence by the usual suspects.
you are completely correct, a full circle frame like TSF is needed to correct this, however with the osteotomy being so far up the femur perhaps a bone graft would be a better solution
giotikas would be competent enough to fix this for rafi if it comes to this
hear rafi? giotikas is your guy if you need additional surgery
-
rafi you need to ask your assistant for your presurgery xrays, they are your property, do not be scared of their bullying
so now, you get your pre surgery xrays and then write emails to these doctors
1 assayag
2 giotikas
and politely ask them to take a look at your xrays and share their opinion and what can be done about it right now when youre still lengthening
if this ends up as bilateral misalignment + 4cm more of bone that would turn into femoral valgus deformity
or it coulr turn into nothing at all, but who’d want to take that chance
also, dont upload screenshots of your camera roll before cropping your xrays, we see your face down in the camera roll
Looks like my xray before operation are lost. we might lost them in hospital or ambulance that tool me the the place im staying in during lengthening. i was in so much pain that trip, didn’t though of any of my belongings if they are with me.
Regarding uploading photos, luckily thats no-one even related to my story. but thank you for noticing and letting me know . i dont have a problem showing my face or telling my true experience with them after external fixator is removed. i even consider joining one if cyborg for life lives for that.
-
also i seen similiar x rays with not such a clean cut on AFA instagram and they advertise it as normal
https://ibb.co/fQQn7qw
https://ibb.co/JdzT3Mn
-
Here are my initial x-rays for anyone who asked , finally got them
https://ibb.co/dM1fJX3
https://ibb.co/kDXgyTd
https://ibb.co/V06sv5c
https://ibb.co/dLwXh7S
https://ibb.co/sv5ytgp
https://ibb.co/FVpMsM3
and here are x-rays taken today
https://ibb.co/ZGvqwWM
https://ibb.co/BBv09gR
https://ibb.co/W2H2gML
https://ibb.co/JFmbkz4
the measurements are off and done by myself in different points as by my bone cut is not straight from beginning. Pend bones cut/angle from beginning (which is my first concern)
i willing to get any medicat advice from anyone. idea opinion is very welcomed. thank you!
On external device i’m supposed to be 3.4 cm tales (minus 0.5) which they told me was the device start at beginning but i didn’t checked at the time.
I have very good flexibility on my left leg but only 90 degrees bending on my right
-
it looks like there is a lot of place in your bones, maybe the holes were drilled to big? Or your bones inside is not strong enough
(https://i.ibb.co/JswzgF3/marked.jpg)
It's looks like they drilled too much to install the nail but during installation they misplaced the nail..
-
Here are my initial x-rays for anyone who asked , finally got them
https://ibb.co/dM1fJX3
https://ibb.co/kDXgyTd
https://ibb.co/V06sv5c
https://ibb.co/dLwXh7S
https://ibb.co/sv5ytgp
https://ibb.co/FVpMsM3
and here are x-rays taken today
https://ibb.co/ZGvqwWM
https://ibb.co/BBv09gR
https://ibb.co/W2H2gML
https://ibb.co/JFmbkz4
the measurements are off and done by myself in different points as by my bone cut is not straight from beginning. Pend bones cut/angle from beginning (which is my first concern)
i willing to get any medicat advice from anyone. idea opinion is very welcomed. thank you!
On external device i’m supposed to be 3.4 cm tales (minus 0.5) which they told me was the device start at beginning but i didn’t checked at the time.
I have very good flexibility on my left leg but only 90 degrees bending on my right
Perhaps your nail diameter was thinner than the medullary canal at the osteotomy site, resulting in the varus deformity.
If you are concerned about this deformity, you should talk to your doctor about correcting it.
You could try emailing someone who seems to be a reliable doctor. For example, Dr. Paley may reply to you via email.
-
Perhaps your nail diameter was thinner than the medullary canal at the osteotomy site, resulting in the varus deformity.
If you are concerned about this deformity, you should talk to your doctor about correcting it.
You could try emailing someone who seems to be a reliable doctor. For example, Dr. Paley may reply to you via email.
I have been thinking about rafi's situation a lot and can't imagine how this can happen in the first place
You might have a point
So buldu reamed the femur with a certain diameter tool and then inserted a thinner nail than the specifications of the newly rimmed canal? Maybe his team was unprepared or in a hurry so they grabbed whatever IM nail they had at the time of the surgery
Then they affixed the monorail on top near the hip but here is where I have an issue understanding, do you think that when he pushed with the powerdrill on the bottom femur the femur moved just a little bit and misplaced the nail inside?
And then when the monorail is attached no other adjustments can be made? I think you wouldn't be able to treat misalignment with an improperly installed monorail since it's not like a TSF frame where you can turn the frame in multiple axes
I hope rafi asks assayag or giotikas and tells us their opinion
I suppose the misalignment can be treated post consolidation by additional surgery where the surgeon would need to create a wedge in the bone and re-align it. Seems like a quick solution that can be employed in a single surgery
Sucks that rafi might have to do more surgeries and have even longer recovery, hoping assayag or giotikas have a different take here
-
By the way whats your nail and fixator brands?
-
Ortovia Eksternal Fixators is the one that i have. my doctor says that during distraction the bone will align itself. if not , what would be the disadvantage? at the moment the only problem i have is that i can’t really measure how much i been lengthen due to that angle cut.
-
Ortovia Eksternal Fixators is the one that i have. my doctor says that during distraction the bone will align itself. if not , what would be the disadvantage? at the moment the only problem i have is that i can’t really measure how much i been lengthen due to that angle cut.
In my opinion, your deformity (bowleg) will not align with the natural process.
However, I do not know if the deformity will be severe enough to bother you at the end of the bone lengthening.
If you are concerned, I suggest you consult another (including foreign) doctor whom you can contact via email, not your current doctor.
-
LON Femur - broken bones not straight
Hi everyone, i am 2 weeks post operation and i got some new x-rays and i noticed my bones are bend (not broken straight) , should i be worried?
https://ibb.co/z82pxwG
https://ibb.co/fr4LqY4
i have lengthened 1cm and i been advised to start lengthening 1.5mm / day to avoid fast consolidation. what do you guys think? thanks
Hey man, how are you doing? How is your progress so far? Any complications?
-
Hey man, how are you doing? How is your progress so far? Any complications?
Not bad. I’m 4.6cm on external frame but i didn’t got more than 2cm in real height. My physiotherapist said that in height is not visible due to bad posture although my posture is pretty straight.
Complications not really, I lost 7kg of weight and some flexibility in right leg. Looks like in the right one, fixator nails are going through IT Bands. I don’t know if they are supposed to avoid them.
-
Not bad. I’m 4.6cm on external frame but i didn’t got more than 2cm in real height. My physiotherapist said that in height is not visible due to bad posture although my posture is pretty straight.
Complications not really, I lost 7kg of weight and some flexibility in right leg. Looks like in the right one, fixator nails are going through IT Bands. I don’t know if they are supposed to avoid them.
Sheesh. I heard that LON method makes it so you don't really gain the advertised height anyway. I'm not sure about that though. Hopefully your posture is fixed and I think the physiotherapist would know best. Good luck on the rest of your journey though, and looking forward to your end goal.
-
Sheesh. I heard that LON method makes it so you don't really gain the advertised height anyway. I'm not sure about that though. Hopefully your posture is fixed and I think the physiotherapist would know best. Good luck on the rest of your journey though, and looking forward to your end goal.
Where did you heard that? Maybe you dreamt it
-
Not bad. I’m 4.6cm on external frame but i didn’t got more than 2cm in real height. My physiotherapist said that in height is not visible due to bad posture although my posture is pretty straight.
Complications not really, I lost 7kg of weight and some flexibility in right leg. Looks like in the right one, fixator nails are going through IT Bands. I don’t know if they are supposed to avoid them.
rafi did you speak with any other surgeons for second opinion on your potential misalignment
be very wary of the things the physio says - these people are notorious for lying to patients telling them "its ok dont worry, its normal dont worry etc" while there are serious problems present. just saying, obviously i may be wrong and it also could be that your posture is not that straight as you think it is
try to eat more food, 7 kg loss in 1 month is an extreme amount, thats a massive caloric deficit which is the last thing you need during LL
post your latest xray to see whats going on with the femurs
fixator going through the IT band is unavoidable, you got 4 pins ripping through muscles and tendons and stretching them for months. just one of the many "pleasures" of LON femur
-
https://ibb.co/mXXKkJG
https://ibb.co/NrdVcKj
x-rays taken today. does anyone know a way to measure them more precise? looks like my left leg is a bit shorter so i’m thinking to lengthen left leg a bit more.
-
https://ibb.co/mXXKkJG
https://ibb.co/NrdVcKj
x-rays taken today. does anyone know a way to measure them more precise? looks like my left leg is a bit shorter so i’m thinking to lengthen left leg a bit more.
rafi whats happening with this misalignment, did you speak with any other doctors for additional opinion?
and the measurement is done by the xray machine itself, it seems that the technician didnt turn on the measuring option in his settings
just ask them to start measuring the gap when you get an xray, dont put a ruler on your laptop's display and try to measure the screen or something
-
rafi whats happening with this misalignment, did you speak with any other doctors for additional opinion?
and the measurement is done by the xray machine itself, it seems that the technician didnt turn on the measuring option in his settings
just ask them to start measuring the gap when you get an xray, dont put a ruler on your laptop's display and try to measure the screen or something
Hi! I check with dr. Mustafa Uysal. He ensured me that the misalignment won’t affect my physical abilities or affect my legs appearances. I also asked another physiotherapist who told me that my bones will realign once i will start to gain muscles back on my legs.
I have the measurements provided by my doctor. the machine does not measure itself, measurements are done after via computer software and i was wondering for another opinion to compare how precise they are.
-
Hi! I check with dr. Mustafa Uysal. He ensured me that the misalignment won’t affect my physical abilities or affect my legs appearances. I also asked another physiotherapist who told me that my bones will realign once i will start to gain muscles back on my legs.
I have the measurements provided by my doctor. the machine does not measure itself, measurements are done after via computer software and i was wondering for another opinion to compare how precise they are.
rafi you should have laughed at that physiotherapist in his face when he said that
it doesnt cost you anything to write emails to a bunch of LL docs and ask for this misalignment issue. Visually there is misalignment, its plain as day. You want to avoid misalignment because it would lead to X-legs which is very unsightly and can lead to early arthritis. Do not take the word of the doctor at face value, yes, he might not be purposely misleading you but in the end of the day you see your xrays, we see your xrays, it looks misaligned
and yes, software measures your distance. what is worrying you about this? If you need a SUPER precise measurement you need a lower body CT Scan which will measure to tenth of a millimeter
-
rafi you should have laughed at that physiotherapist in his face when he said that
it doesnt cost you anything to write emails to a bunch of LL docs and ask for this misalignment issue. Visually there is misalignment, its plain as day. You want to avoid misalignment because it would lead to X-legs which is very unsightly and can lead to early arthritis. Do not take the word of the doctor at face value, yes, he might not be purposely misleading you but in the end of the day you see your xrays, we see your xrays, it looks misaligned
and yes, software measures your distance. what is worrying you about this? If you need a SUPER precise measurement you need a lower body CT Scan which will measure to tenth of a millimeter
I agree, boklecrt on LL Forums knows more than an qualified physiotherapist. Make sure to laugh at every doctor and physiotherapist, and only get your advice from members on this forum.
-
Nice strawman argument you got there buddy boyo(actually you might not know what a strawman argument is, do google it), you only comment on buldu diaries, such an obvious livelifetaller bot
But lets investigate
So rafi went to our favorite turkish mutilator, the one and only halil buldu and got this:
(https://s8d5.turboimg.net/t1/79536429_66136218-87-ED-4-F04-9789-F471-D0-CCA2-EE.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/79536429/66136218-87-ED-4-F04-9789-F471-D0-CCA2-EE.jpg.html) (https://s8d5.turboimg.net/t1/79536430_4-D547-D06-4-F0-B-4-C99-B9-DE-6-E464891-CBE0.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/79536430/4-D547-D06-4-F0-B-4-C99-B9-DE-6-E464891-CBE0.jpg.html)
While his xrays should've shown this(Paley result):
(https://s8d6.turboimg.net/t1/79536390_tDhAQlx.jpeg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/79536390/tDhAQlx.jpeg.html)
So now, the physiotherapist says
I also asked another physiotherapist who told me that my bones will realign once i will start to gain muscles back on my legs.
So, when a bone such as the femur has a 30 cm long metal rod as thick as a finger hammered in it from top to bottom and secured with 4 screws on both ends, how exactly are the bones going to "realign themselves" when the patient gains leg muscles? dont worry, its a rhetorical question
-
rafi, so if this misalignment turns into an X legs situation this will happen:
https://youtu.be/QF1LiHU_D-o
https://youtu.be/tXC_eSGFeHw
it will most certainly require corrective surgery, after at least 1 year and a half because the gap has to consolidate first and then they will remove the intramedullary nail, rebreak the bone, realign the bone, put a plate on it(15 cm-20 cm scar down both sides of legs), then you will be on crutches while that heals
-
Nice strawman argument you got there buddy boyo(actually you might not know what a strawman argument is, do google it), you only comment on buldu diaries, such an obvious livelifetaller bot
Interesting. Anyone who doesn't follow your position is a Buldu bot. ???
Tell me where Buldu touched you on this bear.
I'm just pointing out how immature you are. I hope he doesn't require surgery or get further complications, but it's too early to tell. Wouldn't you agree?
-
I don't like sarcasm, but if he has a misalignment. I think it is an O leg, not an X leg.
Femoral lengthening surgery rarely causes x-legs.
-
rafi, so if this misalignment turns into an X legs situation this will happen:
https://youtu.be/QF1LiHU_D-o
https://youtu.be/tXC_eSGFeHw
it will most certainly require corrective surgery, after at least 1 year and a half because the gap has to consolidate first and then they will remove the intramedullary nail, rebreak the bone, realign the bone, put a plate on it(15 cm-20 cm scar down both sides of legs), then you will be on crutches while that heals
who is this? it lengthen too much on tibias i assume :-\
-
rafi you should have laughed at that physiotherapist in his face when he said that
it doesnt cost you anything to write emails to a bunch of LL docs and ask for this misalignment issue. Visually there is misalignment, its plain as day. You want to avoid misalignment because it would lead to X-legs which is very unsightly and can lead to early arthritis. Do not take the word of the doctor at face value, yes, he might not be purposely misleading you but in the end of the day you see your xrays, we see your xrays, it looks misaligned
the physiotherapist i asked has nothing to do with my doctor or LL company so he has no reasons to lie in their favour. he seems very professional and honest. his point of view is, that now as i’m very stiff and i lost muscle on legs and back, is early to say if my bones will stay like this. being less stiff after device removal and gaining muscles back might drag my bones back in place.
right after frame removal i will try those orthopaedic correctors and check might x-rays regularly. seems to be effective for people with “x / o legs” so i have high hopes for me as my bones will be in consolidation phase so easier to correct . *hopefully*
https://ibb.co/xf7nf34
https://ibb.co/vq0SpYb
(someone teach me how do i add pictures in post please)
If you know any email of doctors that might reply please add them below, i will write them and be back with their opinion. i wrote to doctor Donghoon but no reply, and Dr. Usual , who told me that as per current x-rays , i didn’t had the best osteotomy but is nothing to be concerned about.
thank you everyone for taking your time to reply on my post :)
-
the physiotherapist i asked has nothing to do with my doctor or LL company so he has no reasons to lie in their favour. he seems very professional and honest. his point of view is, that now as i’m very stiff and i lost muscle on legs and back, is early to say if my bones will stay like this. being less stiff after device removal and gaining muscles back might drag my bones back in place.
right after frame removal i will try those orthopaedic correctors and check might x-rays regularly. seems to be effective for people with “x / o legs” so i have high hopes for me as my bones will be in consolidation phase so easier to correct . *hopefully*
https://ibb.co/xf7nf34
https://ibb.co/vq0SpYb
(someone teach me how do i add pictures in post please)
If you know any email of doctors that might reply please add them below, i will write them and be back with their opinion. i wrote to doctor Donghoon but no reply, and Dr. Usual , who told me that as per current x-rays , i didn’t had the best osteotomy but is nothing to be concerned about.
thank you everyone for taking your time to reply on my post :)
Best of luck man, and looking forward to your progress. How are you doing so far and what's your length achieved now?
-
I don't like sarcasm, but if he has a misalignment. I think it is an O leg, not an X leg.
Femoral lengthening surgery rarely causes x-legs.
look at how the external fixator is pulling on the bones. its pushing the knees together - imminent knocked knees/x legs
the physiotherapist i asked has nothing to do with my doctor or LL company so he has no reasons to lie in their favour. he seems very professional and honest. his point of view is, that now as i’m very stiff and i lost muscle on legs and back, is early to say if my bones will stay like this. being less stiff after device removal and gaining muscles back might drag my bones back in place.
right after frame removal i will try those orthopaedic correctors and check might x-rays regularly. seems to be effective for people with “x / o legs” so i have high hopes for me as my bones will be in consolidation phase so easier to correct . *hopefully*
https://ibb.co/xf7nf34
https://ibb.co/vq0SpYb
(someone teach me how do i add pictures in post please)
If you know any email of doctors that might reply please add them below, i will write them and be back with their opinion. i wrote to doctor Donghoon but no reply, and Dr. Usual , who told me that as per current x-rays , i didn’t had the best osteotomy but is nothing to be concerned about.
thank you everyone for taking your time to reply on my post :)
rafi nothing is going to pull any bones back to straight because you have a stainless steel rod inside of the usually flexible femur. a long bone - femur, tibia, fibula, they are flexible in order to accommodate physical stress without breaking outright, but now that there is a nail to hold it in place while it calcifies, nothing will pull it back to normal
you upload images from the website turboimagehost like this:
(https://s8d1.turboimg.net/t1/79575318_D31-F8293-E507-49-C3-8470-7-B14512-CD5-B9.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/79575318/D31-F8293-E507-49-C3-8470-7-B14512-CD5-B9.jpg.html) (https://s8d1.turboimg.net/t1/79575319_5-D37-C9-AA-6-BC3-4857-886-B-17229-D86585-E.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/79575319/5-D37-C9-AA-6-BC3-4857-886-B-17229-D86585-E.jpg.html)
so about these straps and braces, do not use this, this is again some nonsense figured out by chinese autists
this contraption will only put unnecessary force on the knee joint. look at how complex a knee joint is:
(https://s8d5.turboimg.net/t1/79575321_188058334-crop-56aae7425f9b58b7d0091480.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/79575321/188058334-crop-56aae7425f9b58b7d0091480.jpg.html)
if you wear this strap on your legs you will just put force on one side of this extremely complex and delicate joint, deform it and move it out of its natural balance. this is the fast track to early arthritis and chronic knee pain. you really dont want to fk with your joints. fixing deformed bones is easy, fixing destroyed joints is not
doctors emails you can find for yourself
write these
assayag
giotikas
rozbruch
mahboubian
-
The internal nail is only attached at one end. It's not holding anyhing in place now.
-
The internal nail is only attached at one end. It's not holding anyhing in place now.
interesting post from an LL veteran
your statement is indeed correct - the nail is attached on one end, but the job of holding everything together falls on the external frame. nothing can move in any direction but the direction of the frame
and the frame is installed in a way that will push the bones inwards
so then when they remove the frame first they will screw the bottom of the internal nail and then unscrew the external frame
otherwise if they remove the frame before screwing the nail the body will immediately pull the bone back and destroy the gained centimeters
-
The reason I'm not pessimistic about this case is that the device isn't strong enough to hold the leg completely stationary. Other forces like muscle resistance can influence alignment, so what that physiotherapist said will happen is possible. The resistance currently pulling it inward may get canceled out by opposite forces from other muscles as they recover, or diminished as the muscles that are providing the resistance now stretch more.
-
The reason I'm not pessimistic about this case is that the device isn't strong enough to hold the leg completely stationary. Other forces like muscle resistance can influence alignment, so what that physiotherapist said will happen is possible. The resistance currently pulling it inward may get canceled out by opposite forces from other muscles as they recover, or diminished as the muscles that are providing the resistance now stretch more.
I sincerely hope for rafi's sake that you're correct, but me personally i dont see how muscles can push the bone back to alignment(when the bone has internal rod in it for rigidity and stability).
Its just NEGLIGENT INSTALLATION at the first surgery, plain and simple.
Also, the monorail technology doesn't provide adjustment after installation like a TSF frame or illizarov - obviously these frames are unusable on femur surgery
LON Femur is a stupid method to choose when internal nails exist. People just have to put an extra year or two of saving and get an internal femur surgery instead of rolling the dice on a LON Femur
With the current hardware there is no point in time when the surgeon can adjust the bone back to normal alignment, not that he wants to, we heard what rafi said, buldu doesnt see any problem. And how would he see any problem, when we know from Hasaki's case that he would remove an external fixator and screw in the internal nail while the patient has bilateral non union and a raging case of acute osteomyelitis.
But anyway, the fact that rafi hasnt contacted and consulted a bunch of western surgeons like we told him to like 1 month ago means he is just not a very serious person, and I personally am done giving him advice as he doesnt want to listen. He'd rather listen to some random physio and some turkish doctor than assayag or giotikas' opinion. You can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink
good luck rafi
-
I sincerely hope for rafi's sake that you're correct, but me personally i dont see how muscles can push the bone back to alignment(when the bone has internal rod in it for rigidity and stability).
Its just NEGLIGENT INSTALLATION at the first surgery, plain and simple.
Also, the monorail technology doesn't provide adjustment after installation like a TSF frame or illizarov - obviously these frames are unusable on femur surgery
LON Femur is a stupid method to choose when internal nails exist. People just have to put an extra year or two of saving and get an internal femur surgery instead of rolling the dice on a LON Femur
With the current hardware there is no point in time when the surgeon can adjust the bone back to normal alignment, not that he wants to, we heard what rafi said, buldu doesnt see any problem. And how would he see any problem, when we know from Hasaki's case that he would remove an external fixator and screw in the internal nail while the patient has bilateral non union and a raging case of acute osteomyelitis.
But anyway, the fact that rafi hasnt contacted and consulted a bunch of western surgeons like we told him to like 1 month ago means he is just not a very serious person, and I personally am done giving him advice as he doesnt want to listen. He'd rather listen to some random physio and some turkish doctor than assayag or giotikas' opinion. You can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink
good luck rafi
Do you think LON Tibia could have the same problem? Regarding bow legs and X legsv
-
But anyway, the fact that rafi hasnt contacted and consulted a bunch of western surgeons like we told him to like 1 month ago means he is just not a very serious person, and I personally am done giving him advice as he doesnt want to listen. He'd rather listen to some random physio and some turkish doctor than assayag or giotikas' opinion. You can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink
good luck rafi
Well, i will email them to ask for a 2nd opinion. i haven’t yet because i tried to be positive and hope that i might not need another surgery.
If they will say that i will need another surgery to fix it, probably I won’t be able to afford it in other place than in turkey.
The internal nail is only attached at one end. It's not holding anyhing in place now.
The nail at the moment can move inside my bone. While exercising, i can feel it moving in my bone. i believe that if i can stay with legs wide open during x-rays, miss alignment will be gone. but we will see the x-rays after removal.
Best of luck man, and looking forward to your progress. How are you doing so far and what's your length achieved now?
Doing well, i lengthened 6 cm so far; i expected more pain at the end (that’s what other pacients told me after reaching +5) but either I got used to the pain or the fact that i got taller makes me not feel the pain so much (being happy seeing results) i hated and regretted this surgery at the beginning but now, just seeing myself taller than people who were taller than me before really changed my point of view and i’m glad i did it. I hope i’m not speaking to early and i won’t have any major complications until the end.
-
rafi thats very unwise on your part, being positive and putting your head in the sand like a flamingo will not fix ongoing complications. You cant wish away bone misalignment, the more you pull the frame the more it diverts from the neutral axis. Noone said you need to go spend 100 000 usd on a new surgery, the whole reason we told you to contact these doctors - assayag, paley, rozbruch, giotikas, donghoon(although he doesnt respond to emails apparently), parihar, birkholtz, betz even is because these people have seen thousands of cases combined and are well equipped to deal with any misalignment issues such as yours.
Then when you get the opinion of 2-3 surgeons, if they dont tell you how they'd fix it over simple emails, you stick your hand deep in your wallet and fork out $200 for a skype consult with a few of them and ask them to explain to you in details how they will fix your legs
And then you take this information and discuss it with a good ORTHOPEDIC(doesnt have to be limb lengthening) turkish surgeon thats covered under your insurance or whatever the healthcare system is in turkey. You agree on what to do and you go and get it fixed for free or co-paid
If a bunch of these doctors say you got nothing to worry about - great!
In the end of the day, its your legs and your future mobility, better safe than sorry amirite buddy boyo
Also, you better make damn sure you got union on those xrays before you take the frame off. You don't wanna become hasaki #2
-
personally i dont see how muscles can push the bone back to alignment(when the bone has internal rod in it for rigidity and stability).
Because the rod is presently providing neither of those things for the bone, which is why muscles were able to pull it out of alignment in the first place.
-
I think rafi case is similar to LLprime3 .
LLPprime3 topic.
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=69283.0
Images of LLPprime3
https://ibb.co/SPx8YJq
https://ibb.co/1TCMk0S
The problem with LLPprime3 was bow-legs, not X-legs.
-
I think rafi case is similar to LLprime3 .
LLPprime3 topic.
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=69283.0
Images of LLPprime3
https://ibb.co/SPx8YJq
https://ibb.co/1TCMk0S
The problem with LLPprime3 was bow-legs, not X-legs.
its great when an intelligent person writes a diary, its a pleasure to read
his end result xray looks great compared to his pre-op xray, they fixed him back to normal as perfectly as it could've been done
hope he fixed his walk in the end
as a side note, if you notice his femur xray, the insertion of the nail and the placement of his fixator is again suboptimal which aggravated his pre-op bow legs. i suppose buldu doesnt really go for ultra precision when doing his multiple surgeries a day. "close enough"
-
as a side note, if you notice his femur xray, the insertion of the nail and the placement of his fixator is again suboptimal which aggravated his pre-op bow legs. i suppose buldu doesnt really go for ultra precision when doing his multiple surgeries a day. "close enough"
i couldn’t find in his post what surgery he did to correct his bow legs 🤔
-
i couldn’t find in his post what surgery he did to correct his bow legs 🤔
rafi when he had his tibia frames removed and tibia nails locked, in the same surgery they went up in the femurs, removed his old nails from his previous LON femur, installed new nails, broke the femur again and rotated it to correct the axis, then locked the femur nails. thats a very skilled surgeon for sure, you should keep him in mind if you need your legs fixed too
-
..
-
Hey, i noticed the guy in the picture below. he is Rejai, but he calls himself "Jay" as a doctor's assistant. (https://ibb.co/VVWPhjv)
He is on dr.YukselYurttas Team,and i had long conversation with that guy, Rejai, throughou the mail. Anyways, so...your doctor is dr. Yuksel Yurttas. I also talked to other patients on this team, and well.... ihave definitely made up my mind that this team is not reliable and safe. The website may seem well organizedd and informative but on the flip side, maan it is deep s**t. By the way, though Dr. YukselYurttas might be the oldest and have had many cases, clearly .... it does not mean that he is experienced in this field. I truly wanna go for limb lengthening in Turkey, cause it is way too pricy in other countries like the USA, korea, germany. i havebeen in contact with other clinics in Turkey. I ll compare them and soon decide. i ve been doing a lot research since 2013, and i think from the line of osteotomy, the proximal part of the femur is on the the way of becomiing varus, and it will increase more if your doctor ignores this. Slight misalignment can occur in LON-Femur as far as ı saw in the research papers but this is too much.
-
when i came in turkey, i met Rejay too. dr. Yüksel was one of my options, unfortunately or not, i haven’t done it with them.
-
rafi when he had his tibia frames removed and tibia nails locked, in the same surgery they went up in the femurs, removed his old nails from his previous LON femur, installed new nails, broke the femur again and rotated it to correct the axis, then locked the femur nails. thats a very skilled surgeon for sure, you should keep him in mind if you need your legs fixed too
Thank you, I will show to my doctor for an opinion and to compare mine and his x-rays. hopefully i won’t need that many procedures , i will update you guys with my next x-rays soon. i’m still hoping that, with lengthening, bones angle with decrease.
-
it's time I chime in on this thread.
I find it extremely unfortunate to see, over and over and over again varus and rotational deformities of the proximal femur after a very straighforward LON or Intramedullary lengthening using a piriformis entry nail.
It is unclear why surgeons do this, but instead of inserting the piriformis nail through the piriformis fossa (!!!) they insert it through the tip of the greater trochanter. The result is varus of the femur, which, in the long run, leads to weakness of the buttock muscles, persistant limb, and lateral hip pain upon exertion.
this is an EASILY avoidable complication.
In addition, the OP xrays show substantial malrotation of the proximal femur.
This is fixable at the end of lengthening, but would require an additional surgery to fix it.
-
when i came in turkey, i met Rejay too. dr. Yüksel was one of my options, unfortunately or not, i haven’t done it with them.
sorry mare! I thought you did it with them, because I saw the picture of that guy. Anyways, they are still not my option after i talked couple of them. so i wonder there left to be dr serkan gurcan then.
-
sorry mare! I thought you did it with them, because I saw the picture of that guy. Anyways, they are still not my option after i talked couple of them. so i wonder there left to be dr serkan gurcan then.
No worries 😁 Once I will finish my journey and leave turkey I will add more details regarding the company. Besides that misalignment, i’m pretty happy with the team yet so i don’t want to give them a bad reputation. They are very friendly and responsive with our needs, no one of current pacients had any infection (we get antibiotics medicine, spray and bandages change very often to avoid that). Yes, when things are odd, they say most of the times “everything is normal” but i guess they don’t want you to freak out but they don’t ignore it at the end of the day.
Thank you everyone for spending time reading and replying to my post 🙏🏼
-
it's time I chime in on this thread.
I find it extremely unfortunate to see, over and over and over again varus and rotational deformities of the proximal femur after a very straighforward LON or Intramedullary lengthening using a piriformis entry nail.
It is unclear why surgeons do this, but instead of inserting the piriformis nail through the piriformis fossa (!!!) they insert it through the tip of the greater trochanter. The result is varus of the femur, which, in the long run, leads to weakness of the buttock muscles, persistant limb, and lateral hip pain upon exertion.
this is an EASILY avoidable complication.
In addition, the OP xrays show substantial malrotation of the proximal femur.
This is fixable at the end of lengthening, but would require an additional surgery to fix it.
Thank you for your input Dr Assayag, the community really appreciates having a surgeon of your prominence as a contributing member
As per the Dr, this is a visualization of the root issue of the entire problem:
(https://s8d6.turboimg.net/t1/79642788_Capture.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/79642788/Capture.jpg.html)
Rafi, there you go, the doctor has reviewed and diagnosed your case, could've had this information one month ago so that you can line up a corrective surgery asap
For further information I suggest you get a consult with Dr Assayag so that he can explain how this possible correction can be done "at the end of lengthening", as this is some tricky tricky stuff, as as far as I understand if they take off the external fixator in order to manipulate the bones, the stretched soft tissues would immediately pull back the femurs a bit and lose centimeters of progress.
So, very interesting to know how this is treated
-
Thank you for your input Dr Assayag, the community really appreciates having a surgeon of your prominence as a contributing member
[…] how this possible correction can be done "at the end of lengthening", as this is some tricky tricky stuff, as as far as I understand if they take off the external fixator in order to manipulate the bones, the stretched soft tissues would immediately pull back the femurs a bit and lose centimeters of progress.
So, very interesting to know how this is treated
you’re welcome!
You are right! if the ex fix is released before locking, the regenerate springs back…. tricky stuff indeed…
-
Nice strawman argument you got there buddy boyo(actually you might not know what a strawman argument is, do google it), you only comment on buldu diaries, such an obvious livelifetaller bot
But lets investigate
So rafi went to our favorite turkish mutilator, the one and only halil buldu and got this:
(https://s8d5.turboimg.net/t1/79536429_66136218-87-ED-4-F04-9789-F471-D0-CCA2-EE.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/79536429/66136218-87-ED-4-F04-9789-F471-D0-CCA2-EE.jpg.html) (https://s8d5.turboimg.net/t1/79536430_4-D547-D06-4-F0-B-4-C99-B9-DE-6-E464891-CBE0.jpg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/79536430/4-D547-D06-4-F0-B-4-C99-B9-DE-6-E464891-CBE0.jpg.html)
While his xrays should've shown this(Paley result):
(https://s8d6.turboimg.net/t1/79536390_tDhAQlx.jpeg) (https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/79536390/tDhAQlx.jpeg.html)
So now, the physiotherapist says
So, when a bone such as the femur has a 30 cm long metal rod as thick as a finger hammered in it from top to bottom and secured with 4 screws on both ends, how exactly are the bones going to "realign themselves" when the patient gains leg muscles? dont worry, its a rhetorical question
Hilarious. This man didn't even go to Halil Buldu and yet he lives rent free in your head. I agree LLT does have its issues, but posts like these are hilarious, yet destroy the quality of this forum. Please retract or modify statement.
-
Hilarious. This man didn't even go to Halil Buldu and yet he lives rent free in your head. I agree LLT does have its issues, but posts like these are hilarious, yet destroy the quality of this forum. Please retract or modify statement.
rafi has not said explicitly who his surgeon is, nor has he denied our theories that it is buldu, as he is currently doing it with someone(who smells like buldu from the 1.5mm per day lengthening and the low quality surgery as already outlined in detail by Dr Assayag), so he doesn't want to risk antagonizing his doctor while still not having finished the process and having to do the fixator removal. its understandable
if rafi comes out and says his doctor's name, and its not buldu, of course I will make a whole new post retracting my allegations of misconduct on buldu's part
-
rafi has not said explicitly who his surgeon is, nor has he denied our theories that it is buldu, as he is currently doing it with someone(who smells like buldu from the 1.5mm per day lengthening and the low quality surgery as already outlined in detail by Dr Assayag), so he doesn't want to risk antagonizing his doctor while still not having finished the process and having to do the fixator removal. its understandable
if rafi comes out and says his doctor's name, and its not buldu, of course I will make a whole new post retracting my allegations of misconduct on buldu's part
I see. I apologize for my statement then as well. Rafi, can you please let us know your doctor! Thank you
-
I see. I apologize for my statement then as well. Rafi, can you please let us know your doctor! Thank you
of course, once i’m done with my surgery and have the device removed :)
-
Who are the best doctors in Turkey do you think after your research?
-
Who are the best doctors in Turkey do you think after your research?
I think Yuksel Yurttas and Mustafa Uysal but do research yourself. Try to contact the doctor you like, check reviews online, ask to speak current patients.
-
I talked a couple of patients from there, and they told me the space was not so enough for patents. I also had a chat with a patient from Wannabetaller and hegave me chills. their doctor did a few revision surgeries from dr yuksel yurttas an dr buldu, mate. Have you got any info regarding this??
-
I spoke with Nicholas he had his surgery with dr yuksel. he started a vlog regarding his journey. had 2 surgeries and pretty good recovery. his life is back to normal.
I spoke with dr. Mustafa Uysal patients and they’re pretty happy too
-
I see. thaknks a lot mate. Appreciate it!
-
Who did you have surgery with, and would you rather have done Precice?