Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: dontgototurkey on May 14, 2023, 10:50:36 PM
-
Hi everyone,
So I did four segment lengthening in 💩stanbul with Live Life Taller between May and September of 2022. 5 cm tibias May-July and 7 cm femur July-September, both surgeries were LON method, to hit goal of 180 cm. I was gullible and fell for their social media and thought to hell with it I’ll take the risk. I didn’t have $200,000 for surgery stateside so I just went for it.
Halil the butcher always mentions his attorney or “advocate” as they are called in 💩stanbul to threaten patients who speak out, but they’re so fking stupid they don’t understand how defamation/libel/slander law works in the United States, where if your statements can be proven factual with hard evidence it’s perfectly legal to speak your mind. I have medical records from Cedars Sinai in Los Angeles documenting the corrective surgeries I’ve needed so I’m not afraid of saying any of this.
There’s been plenty of discussion on this forum about the out of control rates of infection at LLT, ranging from minor infections to severe osteomyelitis, I actually remember being in the elevator at their “rehabilitation center” last summer with the Japanese kid who almost needed amputation back home in Japan (https://twitter.com/height_llt) after dealing with severe infection from LLT, and luckily I never got a single infection while there because I didn’t follow their bull💩 wound care regimen.
In order to conserve company resources they tell LON patients not to shower until after fixator removal and their “nurses” come like once a week to change the gauze on the fixators. Any western surgeon will tell you this is completely insane. The gauze should be changed every day and you should shower every day. I spent my own money to stock up on gauze using the Turkish delivery app Yemeksepeti and showered every day and changed my own bandages, carpet bombed the pin sites with iodine, etc and just let the medical team do their thing once a week even though I didn’t need it.
Where things went south for me, and something I’m not sure has been mentioned on this forum before (maybe, could be wrong) is Halil the butcher is so incompetent that with tibia patients he removes the syndesmotic screws at the ankle during the fixator removal surgery, which creates a tibiofibular subluxation, a type of dislocation that needs to be surgically repaired or will result in the patient being unable to walk/permanently disabled long term. I found this out after sending X-rays from LLT to Dr. Michael Assayag in Baltimore over WhatsApp. He spotted it within 30 seconds of looking at the X-rays and said it’s a “trademark complication” from Turkish limb lengthening surgeons.
I left 💩stanbul early after the diagnosis from Dr. Assayag and a close family member passing away suddenly. I finished lengthening at home and had the corrections staged across two surgeries so I could weight bear on one leg while recovering and avoid being wheelchair bound. My first corrective surgery was in October and the second was five weeks ago in April. The tibia surgery also created a valgus deformity in the right leg which needed to be straightened out using a new internal nail and plating, and while I was in 💩stanbul Sedat lied to me about it. I pointed out that my right tibia was starting to look crooked, and he said it was “normal” and from “the pressure created by the fixator”.
I honestly feel lucky, it could have been so much worse. I never lengthened more than .75 mm per day on the tibias or 1 mm per day on the femurs, even with the physical therapists pressuring me to lengthen at a faster rate “to prevent early consolidation” which is actually very rare. It’s so disgusting how they pressure people to lengthen 1.5 mm per day or even faster in some cases.
While I was in the hospital in October I did a group call over WhatsApp with Sedat and Halil and told the butcher what a piece of he is. I asked him why LLT is the only fking place on Earth that lengthens 1.5 mm per day, asked him why he’s not invited to present at orthopedic conferences his technique of lengthening faster if it’s so great, sounds great if you can shorten patients time in fixator, right? I don’t think anyone has ever talked to him the way I did, I could tell he was furious. He said he did “everything perfect” and I asked him what caused the ankle subluxations and valgus deformity then? Did I cause it? Was it magical faeries? Garden gnomes? I told him he couldn’t even work as a janitor in an American hospital, that his medical license would be set on fire if he performed surgery like that in the States. He was so fking pissed off he blocked me on WhatsApp.
I told Sedat that it’s so obvious that he’s just lying about everything, I mean I was literally talking to them while laying in a hospital bed in the #1 rated hospital in California for orthopedic surgery, #2 in the entire United States, I’ve got medical imaging and a proper diagnosis from two of the top board certified American orthopedic surgeons showing the obvious malpractice from Halil (Dr. Marecek at Cedars is an amazing trauma surgeon if anyone here needs to get fixed up) and he’s just gaslighting saying they did everything perfect. How fking stupid do you think I am man? I mean other than going to 💩stanbul, obviously that was stupid as , but do you really expect me to believe all of this is wrong, my ankles were fine, my leg wasn’t crooked, up is down and the sky is red not blue, like just shut the fk up you sociopath.
As an American, I’m no fan of the USA. Mass shootings, opiate addiction from greedy drug companies, this country is far from perfect. But it’s at least reassuring that a shop of horrors like LLT could never, ever exist in California. It would just immediately get shut down by the government. Halil would be barred from practicing medicine for life and would end up working as a literal butcher slicing taco meat as a street vendor on San Vicente boulevard. A place that fked up simply could not exist here, and for that at least I am thankful.
You could maybe, m a y b e forgive the very low level staff at LLT, the physical therapists and “medical team” for not understanding what exactly they are complicit in, I mean they’re just kids in their early 20s who grew up in a developing country with out of control inflation and no real future, making the equivalent of $4 per hour giving pointless massages to patients with infections and deformities like anything they’re doing fking matters, who have no exposure to the standards and rigor of western medical institutions, but the same can not be said for Sedat. He and his brother actually grew up in Germany, so he actually knows how legit, reputable medical practices are supposed to operate.
If you’re reading this and thinking about going there for surgery, please for the love of god just go somewhere else. LLT keeps raising their prices so it’s not even really going to be an affordable option for long, you’re better off just going to Parihar in India if you’re budget conscious, at least then you’ll know you’re in safe, capable hands.
Turkey is the Land of Lies. This kind of surgery is just too dangerous and extreme to risk in a rat hole like that.
Luckily my left ankle feels great now and my right ankle is coming along nicely since corrective surgery in April, consolidation is fine in weight bearing segments (had to take calcium + vitamin D for a while once I was back in LA to speed things up) so I should be walking normally in a few months and can finally move on with my life and new height. I’m so thankful I didn’t get any of the serious complications other LLT patients have. I feel so bad for them.
My username says it all. Don’t go to Turkey.
One of the initial X-rays from September after leaving 💩stanbul showing premature removal of syndesmotic screws and tibiofibular subluxation:
https://ibb.co/1Qczs6z
Left ankle subluxation correction by replacing syndesmotic fixation:
https://ibb.co/jJZTp5f
Right ankle subluxation correction and valgus correction using syndesmotic fixation, new internal nail and plating (sorry posted wrong link first time):
https://ibb.co/b1WHT3Z
Scars:
https://ibb.co/VSBWLzg
https://ibb.co/3svktwm
https://ibb.co/RBWG33L
https://ibb.co/QmxzC5d
-
Lol at this forum censoring my post, apologies for my foul language 😅
-
Thanks for posting. I was also butchered in Turkey by the piece of shi/t Yuksel Yurttas. He gave me crooked legs and then lied about it. He gave my friend crooked legs and infection and nerve issues.
Stay away from these criminals.
-
Thanks for posting. I was also butchered in Turkey by the piece of shi/t Yuksel Yurttas. He gave me crooked legs and then lied about it. He gave my friend crooked legs and infection and nerve issues.
Stay away from these criminals.
I’m so sorry that happened to you and your friend. They really are some of the worst people on the planet. Of course the Turkish government couldn’t possibly care less. Look at the recent earthquake that killed 50,000 people because the government ignored building codes for earthquake safety. They can’t even be bothered to implement safety standards for building construction. Worthless place.
-
I’m so sorry that happened to you and your friend. They really are some of the worst people on the planet. Of course the Turkish government couldn’t possibly care less. Look at the recent earthquake that killed 50,000 people because the government ignored building codes for earthquake safety. They can’t even be bothered to implement safety standards for building construction. Worthless place.
Yes, it's true. The country just has no medical standards at all. Everything in the medical system there is just a facade and good-enough and "eyeballing" it. Yuksel Yurttas is supposed to be a professor in orthopedics there in Turkey and look at how many patients he's fked up. Just shows you the quality of education and medical in Turkey. It's trash. I curse that moron every single day I wake up.
-
Yes, it's true. The country just has no medical standards at all. Everything in the medical system there is just a facade and good-enough and "eyeballing" it. Yuksel Yurttas is supposed to be a professor in orthopedics there in Turkey and look at how many patients he's fked up. Just shows you the quality of education and medical in Turkey. It's trash. I curse that moron every single day I wake up.
Honestly!! How does someone become a “professor” if they are that incompetent. It’s completely ridiculous. They have no standards.
-
Honestly!! How does someone become a “professor” if they are that incompetent. It’s completely ridiculous. They have no standards.
I empathize deeply. Those LLT s should be held accountable! I sent you a dm btw!
-
it’s at least reassuring that a shop of horrors like LLT could never, ever exist in California. It would just immediately get shut down by the government. Halil would be barred from practicing medicine for life and would end up working as a literal butcher slicing taco meat as a street vendor on San Vicente boulevard. A place that fked up simply could not exist here, and for that at least I am thankful.
Outcomes like these are discouraging. But statements like the one you've made here have enough comedic value to make me believe you're recovering well. Good luck and keep us posted.
-
Just shows you the quality of education and medical in Turkey. It's trash.
Istanbul University is a performant medical center alongside Yeditepe University Hospitals. I don't think it's fair to say Turkish medicine at its entirety is mediocre. I do understand that reading about outcomes like this is discouraging. A surgeon’s technical skill ultimately determines patient outcomes.
https://istanbultip.istanbul.edu.tr/en
-
Ooo I must have been there at the same time as you, or well, in the hotel next door during your first surgery.
Yeah, they do some pretty amazing lol. Completely with you on the 1.5mm lengthening speed.
You know when they went from recommending 1mm a day on femurs to 1.5mm? Right when they opened their rehabilitation center lol. Much more monetary incentive to keep patients rolling in and out in 60 days rather than 90 ;)
-
Istanbul University is a performant medical center alongside Yeditepe University Hospitals. I don't think it's fair to say Turkish medicine at its entirety is mediocre. I do understand that reading about outcomes like this is discouraging. A surgeon’s technical skill ultimately determines patient outcomes.
https://istanbultip.istanbul.edu.tr/en
If that is said, then the only explanation is that Yuksel Yurttas is dangerously incompetent. There's no other reason he destroyed so many patients lives, and he obviously doesn't have technical skills. He fked up the Chinese girl with a bone infection, fked up the guy on Looksmaxxing channel with a broken ankle, and gave me and my friend crooked legs and nerve issues.
-
If you have recent imaging data please put it at this thread. Redact any information that could be used to dox you.
-
I’m sorry for what happened to you, I hope you heal completely. I went to them too and their incompetence is unbelievable, their lies too. I screwed up by going there too and now have deformed legs and still can’t walk properly. It’s common for butcher halil Buldu to leave screws in on patients, he’s usually on red bull and nicotine while performing surgery so you can’t expect any more
While I was in the hotel of people they butchered they have I did see too many people with problems in their tibias. I always assumed he fked up their knees, didn’t think he always screwed up their ankles.
Btw, I also went to turkey and called him an incompetent butcher to his face. He also blocked me and said he would get in contact with his “advisers.” Maybe this is how he scares his Asian patients from posting anything which I know for a fact there’s tons of them crippled
And I agree with your sentiments on turkey. People should really not go there for anything medical. I would also just in general not go there, people are rude and xenophobic.
Also did they also invade your privacy? Taking pictures of you whenever they could?
-
I’m sorry for what happened to you, I hope you heal completely. I went to them too and their incompetence is unbelievable, their lies too. I screwed up by going there too and now have deformed legs and still can’t walk properly. It’s common for butcher halil Buldu to leave screws in on patients, he’s usually on red bull and nicotine while performing surgery so you can’t expect any more
While I was in the hotel of people they butchered they have I did see too many people with problems in their tibias. I always assumed he fked up their knees, didn’t think he always screwed up their ankles.
Btw, I also went to turkey and called him an incompetent butcher to his face. He also blocked me and said he would get in contact with his “advisers.” Maybe this is how he scares his Asian patients from posting anything which I know for a fact there’s tons of them crippled
And I agree with your sentiments on turkey. People should really not go there for anything medical. I would also just in general not go there, people are rude and xenophobic.
Also did they also invade your privacy? Taking pictures of you whenever they could?
Yeah each of the few times time he checked in to see how I was doing (he has so many “patients” (victims) he can’t possibly have enough time for them all, which in and of itself is dangerous) he brought almost the entire staff with him in the room so they could film Instagram videos showing how “great I was doing” and it’s such an egregious conflict of interest between a doctor’s responsibility to address a patient’s medical concerns and his desire to promote the company for financial gain, because while they’re filming it’s incredibly awkward to say something is wrong and you need help, which is what they are counting on. They just want you smiling and giving praise. It’s the kind of thing that would never happen in the United States, they’re just so disgusting and sociopathic it’s beyond comprehension. The whole time I was there I wasn’t even aware of the crippled patients kept separated in the hotel across from the main building, that just adds a whole new dimension to the depravity.
-
Yea man they’ve botched so many people
I got botched in India by sarin
Nerve damage, non union and alot more
My foots sole was completely numb after framw removal and its been 9 months and it’s very slowly coming back. The leg is atrophied cuz of nerve damage. Theres a huge difference in Size between the good leg and the bad leg. It’s crazy how these butchers sleep at night
-
Yeah each of the few times time he checked in to see how I was doing (he has so many “patients” (victims) he can’t possibly have enough time for them all, which in and of itself is dangerous) he brought almost the entire staff with him in the room so they could film Instagram videos showing how “great I was doing” and it’s such an egregious conflict of interest between a doctor’s responsibility to address a patient’s medical concerns and his desire to promote the company for financial gain, because while they’re filming it’s incredibly awkward to say something is wrong and you need help, which is what they are counting on. They just want you smiling and giving praise. It’s the kind of thing that would never happen in the United States, they’re just so disgusting and sociopathic it’s beyond comprehension. The whole time I was there I wasn’t even aware of the crippled patients kept separated in the hotel across from the main building, that just adds a whole new dimension to the depravity.
Vice should do a documentary on malpractices in turkey, jesus
-
Yeah each of the few times time he checked in to see how I was doing (he has so many “patients” (victims) he can’t possibly have enough time for them all, which in and of itself is dangerous) he brought almost the entire staff with him in the room so they could film Instagram videos showing how “great I was doing” and it’s such an egregious conflict of interest between a doctor’s responsibility to address a patient’s medical concerns and his desire to promote the company for financial gain, because while they’re filming it’s incredibly awkward to say something is wrong and you need help, which is what they are counting on. They just want you smiling and giving praise. It’s the kind of thing that would never happen in the United States, they’re just so disgusting and sociopathic it’s beyond comprehension. The whole time I was there I wasn’t even aware of the crippled patients kept separated in the hotel across from the main building, that just adds a whole new dimension to the depravity.
yep he did the exact same thing with me. When I finally saw him for the first time near the ending of my lengthening I thought he was coming to finally check in on me but nope, he just wanted to film me, as soon as I said I did not want to be filmed he fought with me a little to convinced me then left when I continued to refuse
-
on their youtube channel there are plenty of videos where they show how people walk crookedly only after lengthening the femur by 7cm,there are some who lengthened the femur by 10cm and tibia by 7cm they will never climb the stairs.
-
This is why I'm planning on going to AFA limb lengthening in Turkey. They actually follow guidelines like not going over 8 cm on femurs, lengthening at a safe rate and the surgeon has more than 20 years of experience with deformity cases. They offer the same convenient experience where everything is going in one building. X-rays, visits, food, psychiotherapy etc. They also pick you up and drive you everywhere you need to and offering this for a cheaper price! I haven't been able to find one negative experience, but hit me up if you find any who are legit.
-
It's wierd because they featured that guy Brokenbonez who seemed to be happy with the result
-
It's wierd because they featured that guy Brokenbonez who seemed to be happy with the result
And he is pretty happy, he is in recovery phase, takes time to walk normally after gain 15cm, even in Paley he should experiencing some issues with surgery, because in gain in height is a huge.
-
I think that Live Life Taller Has been learning with its mistakes and now are doing a decent work.
-
I think that Live Life Taller Has been learning with its mistakes and now are doing a decent work.
Wrong again.
When I talked with Halil and Sedat after my first corrective surgery back home in Los Angeles (I needed 2 corrective surgeries because of Halil) and explained to them what went wrong with Halil’s surgeries, they said they did nothing wrong and that “everything was perfect”.
I laughed and said well then why am I in a hospital bed right now recovering from corrective surgery? My ankles are butchered from Istanbul, how did that happen? They didn’t have an answer. I even offered to send proof of my medical records and X-rays.
What is so scary about them is that not only do they make these mistakes, but they are too arrogant and stubborn to admit to it and learn from them. They just insist they’re doing everything the right way. No apology. No admitting of mistake. Nothing. They just lie about everything.
They still encourage 1.5 mm per day lengthening which is dangerous so they can increase patient volume for more money. They still remove the screws at the ankles creating dislocation which requires reconstructive surgery later. They haven’t changed and won’t admit to making mistakes.
-
That is pretty scary and sad. They should spend their budget more on a more experienced surgeon than on aggressive marketing...
-
The surgeon owns the company so he’s not incentivized to hire anyone else for profit sharing reasons, and he’s an arrogant psychopath who actually thinks he’s a great surgeon.
-
The surgeon owns the company so he’s not incentivized to hire anyone else for profit sharing reasons, and he’s an arrogant psychopath who actually thinks he’s a great surgeon.
I swear it has to be done on purpose. There are some cases where a patient goes to LLT or WBT and has a successful surgery all around. Then others where the surgeries are done so poorly its literally impossible for it to have been done by the same surgeon. Id actually go as far as to say that the surgeon doing the CLL specifically actually knows what hes doing completely but actively butchers patients to make more money off recovery costs.
-
I swear it has to be done on purpose. There are some cases where a patient goes to LLT or WBT and has a successful surgery all around. Then others where the surgeries are done so poorly its literally impossible for it to have been done by the same surgeon. Id actually go as far as to say that the surgeon doing the CLL specifically actually knows what hes doing completely but actively butchers patients to make more money off recovery costs.
I remember Sedat saying before the surgeries that if “anything is wrong they’ll fix it for free” (NOT trying to defend them here) but that may be because I paid for the “comprehensive package” and that included some bogus insurance policy and B) who knows if they would actually honor that agreement (I seriously doubt it)
He kept insisting during the WhatsApp call after reconstructive surgery in Los Angeles that there’s nothing wrong with removing the screws which is ridiculous, so I think he’s just a moron who could only get a medical degree in a rat hole like Turkey.
-
He kept insisting during the WhatsApp call after reconstructive surgery in Los Angeles that there’s nothing wrong with removing the screws which is ridiculous, so I think he’s just a moron who could only get a medical degree in a rat hole like Turkey.
I thought Sedat was just a businessman, but does he have a medical degree?
-
Sedat is just the manager, right. He doesn’t have anything to do with the surgeries. However he and Halil both kept insisting during the WhatsApp call (it was a group call) that the techniques LLT use are fine. When I said moron who could only get a medical degree in Turkey I was referring to Halil (won’t call him a doctor, he doesn’t deserve that title)
-
Thank you for the answer.
I know other people hurt by LLT, and it looks like LLT won't admit to mistakes.
But if additional surgery is needed, they do it for free. They don't pay for travel, though. So, if there are problems, many patients who can't afford more go back to LLT for help.
-
Yeah which likely makes things worse. His surgical technique is so poor, if I had let him try to fix my ankles instead of going home to have it done in Los Angeles he probably would have made it even worse. He shouldn’t be operating on anyone. For any reason.
-
Tibias is much harder to make it, even a good surgeon could be face some complication on this segment, femur is more easy to make it, even bad surgeon make it pretty decent, the major errors are infections, muscle cramp( little physiotherapy) or nerve pain( many caused by overdistration).
-
I know I’m not going to convince you at this point, I get it. The height dysphoria is so bad you’ll do anything to make it stop. I was there myself.
What I’m saying though is that Halil literally just removed screws he should have left in, and because of that I’ve been unable to walk for over a year. It’s not that he made some minor mistake that all surgeons make sometimes.
He did something completely idiotic and insane that basically crippled me, requiring two reconstructive surgeries. And then refused to apologize or admit he was wrong.
I mean if you’re at the edge mentally and it’s either limb lengthening or jumping off a building, I get it. I don’t miss being 168 cm. Being 180 is nice. But understand these guys are psychopaths. They don’t care about you. They don’t care about your health. When you’re there they’ll pretend to be your best friend. They’re very charming. They try to make you feel like part of their family or something. That all happened with me. All smiles and hugs.
But as soon as something goes wrong and you confront them about it, they’ll just block you and forget about you. It’s all a lie.
They don’t care I’ve been on crutches for an entire year, lost a years worth of work because I drive for a living. They don’t care I can’t walk.
The most insane thing is since I’ve been there they’ve raised prices even more, so it’s not even that affordable anymore. You could just save money for a few more years and go to Greece or somewhere safer.
You’ve been warned.
-
Yeah which likely makes things worse. His surgical technique is so poor, if I had let him try to fix my ankles instead of going home to have it done in Los Angeles he probably would have made it even worse. He shouldn’t be operating on anyone. For any reason.
What exactly is wrong with your ankles? I'm trying to search your condition up on Google but it's full of medical terms and it's hard to completely understand. Thanks for responding btw.
-
What exactly is wrong with your ankles? I'm trying to search your condition up on Google but it's full of medical terms and it's hard to completely understand. Thanks for responding btw.
There’s these screws used in tibia lengthening called syndesmotic screws that hold the tibia and fibula together at your ankle when lengthening. The screws need to be left in place during the recovery process, ideally until nail removal a year later, or the tibia and fibula move apart and create what’s called a tibiofibular subluxation, a type of dislocation.
It’s very subtle in the early stages, when the doctor pointed it out on the X-ray I didn’t even see it at first. There wasn’t really any significant pain either, so it was very much a surprise.
It’s the kind of thing that in the early stages is not noticeable. You could come home from lengthening, feel fine, start to walk again, go back to normal life etc.
But eventually the bones will gradually move further apart, destabilizing the ankle more and more. When there is a subluxation of the tibia and fibula, even if it’s microscopic, like only a few millimeters between each bone, the ankle is not anatomically stable.
If you were to ignore it completely, eventually your ankle would completely stop working. The ligaments, tendons and nerves would be pulled in unnatural ways, well beyond their design. Chronic inflammation from the subluxation eventually causes swelling of the joint, increased fluid in the joints, cartilage damage, bone damage, muscle atrophy. Because the main ankle “joint” where the tibia and fibula connect becomes too loose and everything is stretched, stressed, and eventually torn.
The reconstructive surgery is a lot like an ankle fracture repair. They basically replace the syndesmotic screws that Halil took out prematurely. There’s pictures of the repair in my first post.
The surgery is pretty simple as far as ankle surgeries go, but the recovery process is long. No weight bearing for six weeks and then it takes at least six months to stop hurting and feel normal. I opted to do one ankle at a time so I could weight bear on one leg and not be wheelchair bound.
My left ankle is good now but my right is taking longer because the hardware put in is more extensive because he had to also correct the valgus deformity in the tibia created by Halil. So instead of just a few screws like the left ankle, there’s a huge metal plate and a bunch of small screws going directly into the lateral malleolus. It’s been almost five months since the right ankle surgery and I’m still on crutches. Technically I can “fully weight bear” but it doesn’t mean I can really walk. Everything is too swollen and tender still. I hope by Christmas I’ll be off then for good and back to my life.
He’s such an incompetent sick bastard. I’m lucky I didn’t get osteomyelitis like a lot of LLT patients but even small complications like mine can wreck your life for a year or more.
STAY AWAY FROM LIVE LIFE TALLER
-
Turkey is the biggest sh*thole for LL nowadays as was India before one decade.
Only a fool would trust his feet on the turkish butchers, especially after.all.these horror stories that are written here.
-
Turkey is the biggest sh*thole for LL nowadays as was India before one decade.
Only a fool would trust his feet on the turkish butchers, especially after.all.these horror stories that are written here.
What this guy said 👆👆👆
-
STAY AWAY FROM LIVE LIFE TALLER
Yeap thats what im saying to all
-
There’s these screws used in tibia lengthening called syndesmotic screws that hold the tibia and fibula together at your ankle when lengthening. The screws need to be left in place during the recovery process, ideally until nail removal a year later, or the tibia and fibula move apart and create what’s called a tibiofibular subluxation, a type of dislocation.
It’s very subtle in the early stages, when the doctor pointed it out on the X-ray I didn’t even see it at first. There wasn’t really any significant pain either, so it was very much a surprise.
It’s the kind of thing that in the early stages is not noticeable. You could come home from lengthening, feel fine, start to walk again, go back to normal life etc.
But eventually the bones will gradually move further apart, destabilizing the ankle more and more. When there is a subluxation of the tibia and fibula, even if it’s microscopic, like only a few millimeters between each bone, the ankle is not anatomically stable.
If you were to ignore it completely, eventually your ankle would completely stop working. The ligaments, tendons and nerves would be pulled in unnatural ways, well beyond their design. Chronic inflammation from the subluxation eventually causes swelling of the joint, increased fluid in the joints, cartilage damage, bone damage, muscle atrophy. Because the main ankle “joint” where the tibia and fibula connect becomes too loose and everything is stretched, stressed, and eventually torn.
The reconstructive surgery is a lot like an ankle fracture repair. They basically replace the syndesmotic screws that Halil took out prematurely. There’s pictures of the repair in my first post.
The surgery is pretty simple as far as ankle surgeries go, but the recovery process is long. No weight bearing for six weeks and then it takes at least six months to stop hurting and feel normal. I opted to do one ankle at a time so I could weight bear on one leg and not be wheelchair bound.
My left ankle is good now but my right is taking longer because the hardware put in is more extensive because he had to also correct the valgus deformity in the tibia created by Halil. So instead of just a few screws like the left ankle, there’s a huge metal plate and a bunch of small screws going directly into the lateral malleolus. It’s been almost five months since the right ankle surgery and I’m still on crutches. Technically I can “fully weight bear” but it doesn’t mean I can really walk. Everything is too swollen and tender still. I hope by Christmas I’ll be off then for good and back to my life.
He’s such an incompetent sick bastard. I’m lucky I didn’t get osteomyelitis like a lot of LLT patients but even small complications like mine can wreck your life for a year or more.
STAY AWAY FROM LIVE LIFE TALLER
Thank you for responding. I think the fibula is kind of bent near the end and so that's what's called tibiofibular subluxation? Is this the problem?
https://ibb.co/N2pdp0Z
-
Sort of, the bend is caused by stress from the bones moving apart at the ankle joint, it creates widespread instability. It’s difficult to “see” the subluxation at the tibiofibular joint unless you’re an experienced orthopedic surgeon or radiologist, the bones at the joint are millimeters out of place, but it’s enough to make the whole thing anatomically unstable.
-
Turkey is the biggest sh*thole for LL nowadays as was India before one decade.
Only a fool would trust his feet on the turkish butchers, especially after.all.these horror stories that are written here.
There are some bad cases, but some of them are make up. There are tons of testemunhal cases on wanna be taller and live live taller, so I don't believe that they make every single patient cripple as you said.
-
Thank you for responding. I think the fibula is kind of bent near the end and so that's what's called tibiofibular subluxation? Is this the problem?
https://ibb.co/N2pdp0Z
My interpretation is as follows.
If the syndesmotic screw, which fixes the tibia and fibula, is removed early, the fibula may shift, leading to tibiofibular subluxation. When this occurs on the side of the ankle joint, the fibula usually moves upward, away from talus.
In his case, instead of the fibula moving away from the talus, the ankle joint seemed to tilt outward.
The doctor appears to have performed an osteotomy of the fibula and fixed the fibula in the correct position.
To aid understanding, I adjusted the tilt of the preoperative photo of Rt and inverted the postoperative photo of Lt. This is because the ankle joint was clearly visible in the postoperative photo of Lt.
https://ibb.co/rbkN0Ph
-
There are some bad cases, but some of them are make up. There are tons of testemunhal cases on wanna be taller and live live taller, so I don't believe that they make every single patient cripple as you said.
I understand that you seem to have already paid for LLT and are in a situation where you cannot stop starting to gamble with your own legs in LLT.
It is true that there are people who win in gambling with LLT or WBT.
Please rebut in this topic after you actually win in gambling.
-
There’s these screws used in tibia lengthening called syndesmotic screws that hold the tibia and fibula together at your ankle when lengthening. The screws need to be left in place during the recovery process, ideally until nail removal a year later, or the tibia and fibula move apart and create what’s called a tibiofibular subluxation, a type of dislocation.
It’s very subtle in the early stages, when the doctor pointed it out on the X-ray I didn’t even see it at first. There wasn’t really any significant pain either, so it was very much a surprise.
It’s the kind of thing that in the early stages is not noticeable. You could come home from lengthening, feel fine, start to walk again, go back to normal life etc.
But eventually the bones will gradually move further apart, destabilizing the ankle more and more. When there is a subluxation of the tibia and fibula, even if it’s microscopic, like only a few millimeters between each bone, the ankle is not anatomically stable.
If you were to ignore it completely, eventually your ankle would completely stop working. The ligaments, tendons and nerves would be pulled in unnatural ways, well beyond their design. Chronic inflammation from the subluxation eventually causes swelling of the joint, increased fluid in the joints, cartilage damage, bone damage, muscle atrophy. Because the main ankle “joint” where the tibia and fibula connect becomes too loose and everything is stretched, stressed, and eventually torn.
The reconstructive surgery is a lot like an ankle fracture repair. They basically replace the syndesmotic screws that Halil took out prematurely. There’s pictures of the repair in my first post.
The surgery is pretty simple as far as ankle surgeries go, but the recovery process is long. No weight bearing for six weeks and then it takes at least six months to stop hurting and feel normal. I opted to do one ankle at a time so I could weight bear on one leg and not be wheelchair bound.
My left ankle is good now but my right is taking longer because the hardware put in is more extensive because he had to also correct the valgus deformity in the tibia created by Halil. So instead of just a few screws like the left ankle, there’s a huge metal plate and a bunch of small screws going directly into the lateral malleolus. It’s been almost five months since the right ankle surgery and I’m still on crutches. Technically I can “fully weight bear” but it doesn’t mean I can really walk. Everything is too swollen and tender still. I hope by Christmas I’ll be off then for good and back to my life.
He’s such an incompetent sick bastard. I’m lucky I didn’t get osteomyelitis like a lot of LLT patients but even small complications like mine can wreck your life for a year or more.
STAY AWAY FROM LIVE LIFE TALLER
i have some questions
ive never seen any lon tibia patients having their fibula screwed in after the removal of the frame, and ive seen hundreds of xrays, as far as i have always understood is that only during the lengthening when a pulling motion is applied you need to have the fibula fixed but after the frame removal everything settles and they dont need to affix it
are you saying that 100% of all lon tibia patients who have had their frames removed have suffered/are suffering from this fibular subluxation?
im one year post frame removal and i dont notice any particular instability and after the frame removal my fibula wasn't screwed in anymore
second question: you say that if this is left to be long term complication the ankle will stop working? how is this possible? i think the body isnt that straightforward and the pulling of the tissues at that location would just make it adapt to the new position of the bones albeit with lowered athletic potential(which is a known trade off)
thoughts?
-
i have some questions
ive never seen any lon tibia patients having their fibula screwed in after the removal of the frame, and ive seen hundreds of xrays, as far as i have always understood is that only during the lengthening when a pulling motion is applied you need to have the fibula fixed but after the frame removal everything settles and they dont need to affix it
are you saying that 100% of all lon tibia patients who have had their frames removed have suffered/are suffering from this fibular subluxation?
im one year post frame removal and i dont notice any particular instability and after the frame removal my fibula wasn't screwed in anymore
second question: you say that if this is left to be long term complication the ankle will stop working? how is this possible? i think the body isnt that straightforward and the pulling of the tissues at that location would just make it adapt to the new position of the bones albeit with lowered athletic potential(which is a known trade off)
thoughts?
Your question is quite intriguing, so I researched the literature.
According to the document below, after the removal of the syndesmotic screw (SS) following tibial lengthening, migration of the fibula was observed in 77% of cases. The author suggests that the removal of SS before the healing of the fibula may be associated with the migration of the fibula.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877056814001650?via%3Dihub
https://ibb.co/7n8WQv8
In LON surgery, it is common to remove the SS along with the external fixator, but it might be safer to wait for the healing of the fibula before removing the SS.
According to this literature, Proximal migration of the fibular malleolus is associated with valgus deformation of the ankle, a risk factor for tibiotalar osteoarthritis.
Of course, not all cases of fibula migration result in deformation or arthritis, but there may be patients where the adaptation you mentioned does not occur.
-
There are some bad cases, but some of them are make up. There are tons of testemunhal cases on wanna be taller and live live taller, so I don't believe that they make every single patient cripple as you said.
It doesn't matter if they cripple all their patients or 50% of them or even a 10% (while I am sure the percentage is much bigger than that).
The complication rate of these turkish clowns is way too big for amy sane LL'er to even think about doing the surgery with them while for about the same money there are many better options. Even if they weren't though it is better to stay as you are compared to becoming a 6cm taller crippled man. If you are crippled then even if you are 1.85 cm height it doesn't matter at all.
-
It doesn't matter if they cripple all their patients or 50% of them or even a 10% (while I am sure the percentage is much bigger than that).
The complication rate of these turkish clowns is way too big for amy sane LL'er to even think about doing the surgery with them while for about the same money there are many better options. Even if they weren't though it is better to stay as you are compared to becoming a 6cm taller crippled man. If you are crippled then even if you are 1.85 cm height it doesn't matter at all.
I have been talking with a currently patient live life taller and he is happy and make praise about the instalations etc, he is doing lon on femur and he want it because the weight bearing and less time require to recovery.
Which options do you recommend bodybuilder? MOnegal? giotikas?
-
Parihar in India is legit if you are looking for low price
I give up trying to convince people not to go to LLT. Halil could be selling patient organs on the black market and there would still be people lining up to have surgery there. It’s hopeless.
Good luck everyone ✌️
-
It’s not your fault, their social media is soo deceiving making ur look like a walk in the park, when this surgery is difficult with the best precise nail & with surgeon as amazing as Paley, let alone butchers at LLT. I don’t know how they live with making it seem like a fun easy process, it is not!! Anyway hope you’re well into recovery now and walking fine. Also guys pls don’t be tempted by free surgery if complication occurs, under a good clinic complications are soo rare, and any additional surgery, anaesthesia, down time, scars ain’t no joke. Don’t settle, please 🙏
-
My interpretation is as follows.
If the syndesmotic screw, which fixes the tibia and fibula, is removed early, the fibula may shift, leading to tibiofibular subluxation. When this occurs on the side of the ankle joint, the fibula usually moves upward, away from talus.
In his case, instead of the fibula moving away from the talus, the ankle joint seemed to tilt outward.
The doctor appears to have performed an osteotomy of the fibula and fixed the fibula in the correct position.
To aid understanding, I adjusted the tilt of the preoperative photo of Rt and inverted the postoperative photo of Lt. This is because the ankle joint was clearly visible in the postoperative photo of Lt.
https://ibb.co/rbkN0Ph
I see, that brings more clarity. Thank you for your response.