Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: Philosopher on July 29, 2023, 05:44:41 PM
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Betz Institute literally claims they can go for a maximum of up to 12 cm on femurs. Since that is way over the safe limit of 8 cm advised by many, how realistic is that? Are there people who've went to Dr. Betz and successfully recovered after such amount?
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Stand Taller got 12 cm in femurs with betz last year from 5'5 to 5'10, ask him
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If you do that you screw yourself up and are signing yourself up for early arthisis and joint problems. Just don't, stick to the 8 cms. You could properly pull it off if your starting height is 190 cm, but if you LL at that point your in the top 1000 idiots in this world.
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If your starting height is 190cm can you still get arthritis with 12 cm on femur v
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There are guys who have done it and been fine. Also people who've ruined themselves.
Mad respect for anyone who actually gets to 12cm. It's hard enough at the latter stages of 8cm, nevermind with 4cm more added. I feel most guys would stop long before simply because of muscle and tendon tightness.
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Good luck with that. For plenty of reasons.
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People who do this much often regret it because their proportions are absurd.
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If you do that you screw yourself up and are signing yourself up for early arthisis and joint problems. Just don't, stick to the 8 cms. You could properly pull it off if your starting height is 190 cm, but if you LL at that point your in the top 1000 idiots in this world.
First of all, it's not like I'm seriously considering it, I'm just checking out all the options and doing some research.
Also what do you have in mind? Is it easier to lenghten longer distances when you are already taller? How exactly does that work?
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You can only safely lengthen a certain % of your limbs 10-15 % of the original length is safe zone where 15-20% is the risky zone. Anything above that your're playing with fire. So the taller you are the longer limbs you already have to begin with equals the more you can safetely lengthen.
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There is the tendancy for people just to parrot what they've learned from others until it becomes 'commonly accepted'. This 8cm so-called safe limit is mainly because the Precise and Stryde nails maxed at 8cm, no other reason.
Reality is this: if you go a bit above 8cm, you'll probably be fine. 12cm is a bit extreme but I definitely think most could do 9 or 10 if the nail allows it and they're not concerned with doing incel things like squatting big weights or running marathons. If you just wanted a basic recovery where you can walk fine 9 or 10 is probably going to be fine.
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You clearly new to the forum and know nothing about what your're talking about. Very few patients can safetely without any complications go above 8 cms on femurs. Paley who is the most experienced surgeon when it comes to LL on this planet, has also confirmed that almost all patients can't tolerate more and the precice nail was designed not to go further because of safety reasons.
If you as a human being avoid safety warnings and tips from the top most knowledgeable surgeons or people on a given subject your're an idiot.
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There is the tendancy for people just to parrot what they've learned from others until it becomes 'commonly accepted'. This 8cm so-called safe limit is mainly because the Precise and Stryde nails maxed at 8cm, no other reason.
Reality is this: if you go a bit above 8cm, you'll probably be fine. 12cm is a bit extreme but I definitely think most could do 9 or 10 if the nail allows it and they're not concerned with doing incel things like squatting big weights or running marathons. If you just wanted a basic recovery where you can walk fine 9 or 10 is probably going to be fine.
Problem is that doing 9+ cms guarantees screwed proportions. Some are fine with that but many aren't
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There is the tendancy for people just to parrot what they've learned from others until it becomes 'commonly accepted'. This 8cm so-called safe limit is mainly because the Precise and Stryde nails maxed at 8cm, no other reason.
Reality is this: if you go a bit above 8cm, you'll probably be fine. 12cm is a bit extreme but I definitely think most could do 9 or 10 if the nail allows it and they're not concerned with doing incel things like squatting big weights or running marathons. If you just wanted a basic recovery where you can walk fine 9 or 10 is probably going to be fine.
8 safe limit derived from the empirical data instead of just an arbitrary delusion. It's dead wrong to have claimed most could do 9 or 10.
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8 safe limit derived from the empirical data instead of just an arbitrary delusion. It's dead wrong to have claimed most could do 9 or 10.
Do you have a link to the data? Curious to see how much problems go up from 5cm to 8cm.
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https://www.tiktok.com/@le_tremba/video/7259867016461389083
this guy did 10.5cm and is walking fine. 8cm being an absolute max is nothing more than an opinion based on no studies whatsoever. It's parroted from the fact that Precice can only handle 8cm. US doctors impose this recommendation on patients so that they don't get hit with lawsuits.
Some patient's bodies can handle 12cm, some cant. Just like some patients can handle 8cm and some can only handle 5cm. It's super subjective. If 8cm really was the max limit on femurs, patients with dwarfism wouldn't be able to grow 10-12 inches from LL. Some of ya'll really don't think outside of the box and believe anything you're told.
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You clearly new to the forum and know nothing about what your're talking about. Very few patients can safetely without any complications go above 8 cms on femurs. Paley who is the most experienced surgeon when it comes to LL on this planet, has also confirmed that almost all patients can't tolerate more and the precice nail was designed not to go further because of safety reasons.
If you as a human being avoid safety warnings and tips from the top most knowledgeable surgeons or people on a given subject your're an idiot.
I've forgotten more about LL than you know boyo, you're nothing more than another prospective patient. When you actually do the surgery maybe then I'll listen to what you have to say.
Problem is that doing 9+ cms guarantees screwed proportions. Some are fine with that but many aren't
If 9cm has screwed proportions it's likely 8 did as well.
https://www.tiktok.com/@le_tremba/video/7259867016461389083
this guy did 10.5cm and is walking fine. 8cm being an absolute max is nothing more than an opinion based on no studies whatsoever. It's parroted from the fact that Precice can only handle 8cm. US doctors impose this recommendation on patients so that they don't get hit with lawsuits.
Some patient's bodies can handle 12cm, some cant. Just like some patients can handle 8cm and some can only handle 5cm. It's super subjective. If 8cm really was the max limit on femurs, patients with dwarfism wouldn't be able to grow 10-12 inches from LL. Some of ya'll really don't think outside of the box and believe anything you're told.
Amen, unfortunately people here are cucks who need to be told what to do and won't even breathe unless their god Paley tells them it's ok.
There just simply isn't some hard wall where 8cm is fine and 8.1cm screws you for life. It's patient dependent. Also depends on how much of a recovery is acceptable to you. If "recovery" means walking at 100% and not much else, most people could do 9, maybe even 10. If "recovery" is loading 350lbs on your back like some incel and squatting then yeah 8cm is probably the max.
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https://www.tiktok.com/@le_tremba/video/7259867016461389083
this guy did 10.5cm and is walking fine. 8cm being an absolute max is nothing more than an opinion based on no studies whatsoever. It's parroted from the fact that Precice can only handle 8cm. US doctors impose this recommendation on patients so that they don't get hit with lawsuits.
Some patient's bodies can handle 12cm, some cant. Just like some patients can handle 8cm and some can only handle 5cm. It's super subjective. If 8cm really was the max limit on femurs, patients with dwarfism wouldn't be able to grow 10-12 inches from LL. Some of ya'll really don't think outside of the box and believe anything you're told.
How do you know he did 10.5cm in the femurs alone? It looks like he split it up between the femurs and tibias for 10.5cm total.
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How do you know he did 10.5cm in the femurs alone? It looks like he split it up between the femurs and tibias for 10.5cm total.
Because he has x-rays
https://www.instagram.com/p/Crbf6GDAd6-/?img_index=1
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Because he has x-rays
https://www.instagram.com/p/Crbf6GDAd6-/?img_index=1
Yep, that's 10.5cm on the femurs. Good for him. However, I also worry for him that his internal femur nail is bent out of alignment into a knock knee position. One of the dangers of excessive lengthening.
https://imgur.com/a/YIXcM5q
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Yep, that's 10.5cm on the femurs. Good for him. However, I also worry for him that his internal femur nail is bent out of alignment into a knock knee position. One of the dangers of excessive lengthening.
https://imgur.com/a/YIXcM5q
His walking looks fine, video here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CvIUhqjN-Hm/
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His walking looks fine, video here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CvIUhqjN-Hm/
His walking is okayish. It is only 4months post lengthening though
Edit: about your answer to the proportion thing, I agree. It's not that at 7 it is OK and than suddenly at 8 it looks bad. The more you lengthen the worse it looks but again, to some it is an issue while for others (like yourself) it isn't.
Me personally, I would prefer to lengthen a conservative amount (6cms max) to maintain proportions and in the worst case scenario wear an insole if I would not be completely satisfied. Again, this is me personally and being exactly your starting height I believe that we need lesser amounts and less proportional sacrifice to reach a height that is xno longer a negative
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Wait and see 10-20 years down the line and his chances of having problem with early arthisis and joint problems are much higher... Not worth gambeling with your legs and health for 1-3 cm more height. That is barely noticeable anyway for other people
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I stopped clicking 10 days ago. I did 12.36cm. I have diary you can follow my entire journey.
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Betz Institute literally claims they can go for a maximum of up to 12 cm on femurs. Since that is way over the safe limit of 8 cm advised by many, how realistic is that? Are there people who've went to Dr. Betz and successfully recovered after such amount?
Some people can go up to 12 while some will stop much sooner for various reasons. It all depends on individual. I tried my best to stay disciplined and do things right as i could till end of lengthening.
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There are guys who have done it and been fine. Also people who've ruined themselves.
Mad respect for anyone who actually gets to 12cm. It's hard enough at the latter stages of 8cm, nevermind with 4cm more added. I feel most guys would stop long before simply because of muscle and tendon tightness.
You are spot on!
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Dont feed the troll.
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His walking is okayish. It is only 4months post lengthening though
Edit: about your answer to the proportion thing, I agree. It's not that at 7 it is OK and than suddenly at 8 it looks bad. The more you lengthen the worse it looks but again, to some it is an issue while for others (like yourself) it isn't.
Me personally, I would prefer to lengthen a conservative amount (6cms max) to maintain proportions and in the worst case scenario wear an insole if I would not be completely satisfied. Again, this is me personally and being exactly your starting height I believe that we need lesser amounts and less proportional sacrifice to reach a height that is xno longer a negative
Assuming we stick with the standard 1cm lengthening = 1 month of recovery time, and assuming it took him 5 months to lengthen 11.5cm (accounting for probable slowdown as he got higher in the centimetres, then again this is LLT and Turkey so you never know..) I'd say 4 months post lengthening (9 months post surgery) this is a decent result. In another 2-3 months he'll be 100% normal for walking looking at this.
I'd certainly feel more comfortable doing a big amount with Betz/Becker in Germany rather than LON in the femurs in Turkey mind you. Gamble seems to have paid off here though.
I did 8.5 (which was actually 9cm on the nail as I had a 3mm discrepancy that needed correcting first, and Dr Giotikas said you need to do 2mm more than your goal to get the actual height you need because of the inaccuracy of xrays and the Q-angle). So could have done another centimetre as I think the gnail maxes out at 10cm. Kinda wish I did although I'm still very happy with the result and to have walked away unharmed and much taller. My femurs do look big, but as far as I'm aware femur/tibia ratio doesn't vary that much across the population, it's an average of 0.8 with only very small amounts of variance, so anyone lengthening any reasonable amount is gonna have 'long looking' femurs when they look in the mirror nked.
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I've forgotten more about LL than you know boyo, you're nothing more than another prospective patient. When you actually do the surgery maybe then I'll listen to what you have to say.
If 9cm has screwed proportions it's likely 8 did as well.
Amen, unfortunately people here are cucks who need to be told what to do and won't even breathe unless their god Paley tells them it's ok.
There just simply isn't some hard wall where 8cm is fine and 8.1cm screws you for life. It's patient dependent. Also depends on how much of a recovery is acceptable to you. If "recovery" means walking at 100% and not much else, most people could do 9, maybe even 10. If "recovery" is loading 350lbs on your back like some incel and squatting then yeah 8cm is probably the max.
If 10 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely 9 did as well. If 11 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely 10 did as well. If n+1 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely n did as well. See the faulty logic?
That being said, you are right about it being an individual-based thing. I did 8cm on femurs Precice and absolutely could have kept going if the machine allowed. As always, lengthen and observe. People shouldn't come in expecting that they can lengthen 12 cm, but I definitely think the vast majority of people can safely hit 8cm. 8 cm shouldn't be thought of as a "limit". It's more like the average safe amount that your typical patient can handle. Some can handle more, some can handle less.
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Assuming we stick with the standard 1cm lengthening = 1 month of recovery time, and assuming it took him 5 months to lengthen 11.5cm (accounting for probable slowdown as he got higher in the centimetres, then again this is LLT and Turkey so you never know..) I'd say 4 months post lengthening (9 months post surgery) this is a decent result. In another 2-3 months he'll be 100% normal for walking looking at this.
I'd certainly feel more comfortable doing a big amount with Betz/Becker in Germany rather than LON in the femurs in Turkey mind you. Gamble seems to have paid off here though.
I did 8.5 (which was actually 9cm on the nail as I had a 3mm discrepancy that needed correcting first, and Dr Giotikas said you need to do 2mm more than your goal to get the actual height you need because of the inaccuracy of xrays and the Q-angle). So could have done another centimetre as I think the gnail maxes out at 10cm. Kinda wish I did although I'm still very happy with the result and to have walked away unharmed and much taller. My femurs do look big, but as far as I'm aware femur/tibia ratio doesn't vary that much across the population, it's an average of 0.8 with only very small amounts of variance, so anyone lengthening any reasonable amount is gonna have 'long looking' femurs when they look in the mirror nked.
Just out of curiosity, does the actual result is the same as the mockups? I mean does it look the same or actually better/worse?
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If 10 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely 9 did as well. If 11 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely 10 did as well. If n+1 cm has screwed proportions, it's likely n did as well. See the faulty logic?
That being said, you are right about it being an individual-based thing. I did 8cm on femurs Precice and absolutely could have kept going if the machine allowed. As always, lengthen and observe. People shouldn't come in expecting that they can lengthen 12 cm, but I definitely think the vast majority of people can safely hit 8cm. 8 cm shouldn't be thought of as a "limit". It's more like the average safe amount that your typical patient can handle. Some can handle more, some can handle less.
Funny how that same 'logic' is always trotted out here no problem when someone is talking about reducing their goals (i.e. no one's gonna notice 1cm extra in height bro!).
Yes it's true n+1 is likely only marginally worse than n in terms of proportions. I wasn't the one who brought up the proportions thing though, and you can just flip the same logic to a guy saying increasing a large amount will definitely ruin your proportions when it wont. Look at yourself in the mirror and decide if you like what you see is the only way to sensibly do this, but don't just stop at 8cm (unless Precise) unless that's genuinely your dream height or you look in the mirror and think increasing more in the femurs will look bad and outweigh the benefits of further height gain. But definitely don't decide based on 'the Lord our Father Paley said 8cm is the maximum', as Paley is just an orthopaedic surgeon, a very skilled one yes, but he's just a man, not a God, and is subject to the same biases and capability to be wrong on an individual case as anyone else. He's hardly going to tell prospective customers 10cm is safe for many when his nails only go to 8cm now, is he? They'd be on the next flight to Europe in that case.
Just out of curiosity, does the actual result is the same as the mockups? I mean does it look the same or actually better/worse?
I never did a 8.5cm mockup. I did an 8cm one in paint before starting the lengthening as at the time I also thought of 8cm as the goal. I'm not sure if it looks exactly the same as the mockup although 0.5cm isn't going to make or break anything in this regard. I think it looks perfectly fine tbh, like I say you can definitely notice the femurs are big but that's going to apply to anyone lengthening over 5cm or so.
Of course all this only applies when you're not wearing clothes. If you're in pants then it's completely indistinguishable from the rest of the population. And I've never had any comments even when nked, although I guess a girl is unlikely to say something like that to your face even if she's thinking it.
As for the height result being the same, yes I got 8.5cm increase in 'real' height, exactly as the xrays predicted once accounting for the discrepancy between my legs and the Q angle.
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Funny how that same 'logic' is always trotted out here no problem when someone is talking about reducing their goals (i.e. no one's gonna notice 1cm extra in height bro!).
Yes it's true n+1 is likely only marginally worse than n in terms of proportions. I wasn't the one who brought up the proportions thing though, and you can just flip the same logic to a guy saying increasing a large amount will definitely ruin your proportions when it wont. Look at yourself in the mirror and decide if you like what you see is the only way to sensibly do this, but don't just stop at 8cm (unless Precise) unless that's genuinely your dream height or you look in the mirror and think increasing more in the femurs will look bad and outweigh the benefits of further height gain. But definitely don't decide based on 'the Lord our Father Paley said 8cm is the maximum', as Paley is just an orthopaedic surgeon, a very skilled one yes, but he's just a man, not a God, and is subject to the same biases and capability to be wrong on an individual case as anyone else. He's hardly going to tell prospective customers 10cm is safe for many when his nails only go to 8cm now, is he? They'd be on the next flight to Europe in that case.
I never did a 8.5cm mockup. I did an 8cm one in paint before starting the lengthening as at the time I also thought of 8cm as the goal. I'm not sure if it looks exactly the same as the mockup although 0.5cm isn't going to make or break anything in this regard. I think it looks perfectly fine tbh, like I say you can definitely notice the femurs are big but that's going to apply to anyone lengthening over 5cm or so.
Of course all this only applies when you're not wearing clothes. If you're in pants then it's completely indistinguishable from the rest of the population. And I've never had any comments even when nked, although I guess a girl is unlikely to say something like that to your face even if she's thinking it.
As for the height result being the same, yes I got 8.5cm increase in 'real' height, exactly as the xrays predicted once accounting for the discrepancy between my legs and the Q angle.
Are you satisfied with your height now being 178-179cm tall? Or are you planning for a tibia lengthening?
Also, I guess you are the multi-banned user so I have to ask, is dating at your new height really vastly easier than before like a night and day difference? I ask this because (1) I agree with your views that LL is almost exclusively for being better at dating (2) If even you might notice a difference, but not a big one, do you think the entire ordeal is worth for the supposed benefits it brings
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So the controversy is about the recommended 8cm maximum safe limit for femurs, or if the real safe limit can go even higher. Let me chime in.
There is no empirical or research data that defines 8cm as the safe maximum limit for femurs. I'm guessing by conjecture that the 8cm femur safe limit came from orthopedic research that the best bone regenerate is less than 15% of the bone length. Between 15% to 20% and it gets a little more worse. Beyond 20% and it gets more worse, so it's recommended not to lengthen more than 20% of your bone length.
Before 2020, the overwhelming majority of cosmetic leg lengthening patients were short men under 5'7" or 170cm. Short men between 5'4" to 5'7" had femur lengths where 20% of it would be around 8cm. So when Nuvasive released the Precice 1 nail in 2012 and Precice 2 nail in 2014 (I think those are the years), they want to keep it safe for the overwhelming majority of their clients and limit it to 8cm.
Since 2020, we have certainly seen a greater number of taller CLL patients over 5'7". In that case, 20% femur length for the taller patients can be more like 9cm or even 10cm. And yes, the safe limit is different for each individual patient.
Even if you go with a femur lengthening device where you can lengthen 9cm or more, it's still an increasing risk if you go over your safe limit. It's not as simple as playing a game at a casino for higher stakes, which can either lead to bigger gains or bigger losses. With casino games, you just lose money and you can always gain money back (assuming you're not too deep in debt or an addict). But if you lose the game of overlengthening, you'll suffer a lifetime of permanent losses like:
Excessive muscle tightness
Arthritis
Nerve damage
Bone deformity (bent nails which leads to bent bones)
Messed up walking gait
Loss of athletic ability (like running or jumping)
Being a handicap
Lost time
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So the controversy is about the recommended 8cm maximum safe limit for femurs, or if the real safe limit can go even higher. Let me chime in.
There is no empirical or research data that defines 8cm as the safe maximum limit for femurs. I'm guessing by conjecture that the 8cm femur safe limit came from orthopedic research that the best bone regenerate is less than 15% of the bone length. Between 15% to 20% and it gets a little more worse. Beyond 20% and it gets more worse, so it's recommended not to lengthen more than 20% of your bone length.
Before 2020, the overwhelming majority of cosmetic leg lengthening patients were short men under 5'7" or 170cm. Short men between 5'4" to 5'7" had femur lengths where 20% of it would be around 8cm. So when Nuvasive released the Precice 1 nail in 2012 and Precice 2 nail in 2014 (I think those are the years), they want to keep it safe for the overwhelming majority of their clients and limit it to 8cm.
Since 2020, we have certainly seen a greater number of taller CLL patients over 5'7". In that case, 20% femur length for the taller patients can be more like 9cm or even 10cm. And yes, the safe limit is different for each individual patient.
Even if you go with a femur lengthening device where you can lengthen 9cm or more, it's still an increasing risk if you go over your safe limit. It's not as simple as playing a game at a casino for higher stakes, which can either lead to bigger gains or bigger losses. With casino games, you just lose money and you can always gain money back (assuming you're not too deep in debt or an addict). But if you lose the game of overlengthening, you'll suffer a lifetime of permanent losses like:
Excessive muscle tightness
Arthritis
Nerve damage
Bone deformity (bent nails which leads to bent bones)
Messed up walking gait
Loss of athletic ability (like running or jumping)
Being a handicap
Lost time
I just did 12.36cm on one go in femurs. Some of what you said is right. Comes down to some can handle 12 in one go and some can’t. It depends on many factors and the person
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Are you satisfied with your height now being 178-179cm tall? Or are you planning for a tibia lengthening?
Also, I guess you are the multi-banned user so I have to ask, is dating at your new height really vastly easier than before like a night and day difference? I ask this because (1) I agree with your views that LL is almost exclusively for being better at dating (2) If even you might notice a difference, but not a big one, do you think the entire ordeal is worth for the supposed benefits it brings
100% satisfied now and won't be doing tibia, even though at one point (pre-first LL) I used to think I might do it. I'd be a few millimetres off 180cm now, and that's perfectly fine for me tbh. While getting to 184-185 would probably be a benefit in absolute terms from where I am now, in no way do I think it'd be worth the additional months of recovery and the cost, the big dating/social gains have been had already.
With dating my experience is this: on apps, where a girl is going to swipe left or right based on your pictures, there's no increase in actual match rate, but that's just normal as (just like when I was 171) I don't put my height in the bio as let's face it, 179-180 is about average and not worth specifically drawing attention to as a net positive. When you actually meet up for a date though, success rate is much better now. More times a girl comes home with you quickly, more often she's interested to meet again etc.
In 'real-life' settings it's also a nice benefit. Prior to CLL, I'd only ever managed to pick up one girl in a club before. Not that I went often, but that was largely because of the negative feedback loop i.e. as a manlet you don't really belong in a club and it's extremely difficult to have fun there. I still don't particularly enjoy the experience since it's just not my scene, but since CLL I've picked up 2 girls in clubs (so 2 in a few months vs 1 in many years, and it's not like I go out often, maybe once a month or so, I'm 99% an online-dating type of guy) and have even started getting approached by girls myself sometimes, which literally never happened (in a club) pre-CLL. It's not some magic bullet where you're guaranteed to be drowning in approaches every time you go out, but it definitely puts you in the game and gives you a decent chance.
CLL was/is definitely worth it from my starting height to ending height. I'd feel much more sceptical about doing it if starting at my current height now and wanting to get to the mid-180s, although it's fair to say I did meet a few patients who did just that and they seemed satisfied, although I never kept in touch with them after CLL so I don't really know how it's impacted their lives.
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Women can't tell the difference between being barefoot 5'10 or 6 feet. Some women if your towering over them, they don't care if its with 19 cm or 24 cm as an example. Thats why that if your're doing LL to get those "bad bitches" (shallow cheap trash women from clubs that literally only care about height, money and attention) it's not going to make a difference if your standard tall by being 5'10 or more than this. Guys often lies with up 2 inches, because they know that they can get away with it and your're taller in shoes. Besides the only country I have heard where women are so extremely shallow and are like this is in the US. Here in Denmark I have never heard or meet any women who have rejected a guy because he was only like 5 cm taller than the girl and not a head. That would be like a guy not deciding to get into a relationship/smashing with a perfect girl, just because the butt could be thicker.
https://scoop.upworthy.com/woman-sparks-debate-after-revealing-plan-to-catch-men-lying-about-their-height-on-dating-apps
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Women can't tell the difference between being barefoot 5'10 or 6 feet. Some women if your towering over them, they don't care if its with 19 cm or 24 cm as an example. Thats why that if your're doing LL to get those "bad bitches" (shallow cheap trash women from clubs that literally only care about height, money and attention) it's not going to make a difference if your standard tall by being 5'10 or more than this. Guys often lies with up 2 inches, because they know that they can get away with it and your're taller in shoes. Besides the only country I have heard where women are so extremely shallow and are like this is in the US. Here in Denmark I have never heard or meet any women who have rejected a guy because he was only like 5 cm taller than the girl and not a head. That would be like a guy not deciding to get into a relationship/smashing with a perfect girl, just because the butt could be thicker.
https://scoop.upworthy.com/woman-sparks-debate-after-revealing-plan-to-catch-men-lying-about-their-height-on-dating-apps
You're a bluepilled cuck who has drunk the muh kunfidence muh game muh personliteehee kool aid. All your posts are full of this trash.
Of course they can fking tell, that isn't the same thing as being able to accurately guess someone's height to within 5cm however.
Nothing wrong with being shallow either, everyone is shallow. Do you want a good looking girl? Then you're 'shallow, cheap, trash' too, by your own metrics. And don't start lying to me that you only care about a girls character.
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100% satisfied now and won't be doing tibia, even though at one point (pre-first LL) I used to think I might do it. I'd be a few millimetres off 180cm now, and that's perfectly fine for me tbh. While getting to 184-185 would probably be a benefit in absolute terms from where I am now, in no way do I think it'd be worth the additional months of recovery and the cost, the big dating/social gains have been had already.
With dating my experience is this: on apps, where a girl is going to swipe left or right based on your pictures, there's no increase in actual match rate, but that's just normal as (just like when I was 171) I don't put my height in the bio as let's face it, 179-180 is about average and not worth specifically drawing attention to as a net positive. When you actually meet up for a date though, success rate is much better now. More times a girl comes home with you quickly, more often she's interested to meet again etc.
In 'real-life' settings it's also a nice benefit. Prior to CLL, I'd only ever managed to pick up one girl in a club before. Not that I went often, but that was largely because of the negative feedback loop i.e. as a manlet you don't really belong in a club and it's extremely difficult to have fun there. I still don't particularly enjoy the experience since it's just not my scene, but since CLL I've picked up 2 girls in clubs (so 2 in a few months vs 1 in many years, and it's not like I go out often, maybe once a month or so, I'm 99% an online-dating type of guy) and have even started getting approached by girls myself sometimes, which literally never happened (in a club) pre-CLL. It's not some magic bullet where you're guaranteed to be drowning in approaches every time you go out, but it definitely puts you in the game and gives you a decent chance.
CLL was/is definitely worth it from my starting height to ending height. I'd feel much more sceptical about doing it if starting at my current height now and wanting to get to the mid-180s, although it's fair to say I did meet a few patients who did just that and they seemed satisfied, although I never kept in touch with them after CLL so I don't really know how it's impacted their lives.
Mm I see. BTW, which country are you from? You are not a native English speaker
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You're a bluepilled cuck who has drunk the muh kunfidence muh game muh personliteehee kool aid. All your posts are full of this trash.
Of course they can fking tell, that isn't the same thing as being able to accurately guess someone's height to within 5cm however.
Nothing wrong with being shallow either, everyone is shallow. Do you want a good looking girl? Then you're 'shallow, cheap, trash' too, by your own metrics. And don't start lying to me that you only care about a girls character.
I vote up what this guy said. Well, yeah, I admit that if two girls are equal in other respects except face, I will prefer the more good-looking one, but that does not mean I will put the largest weight to face when dating. If she was hot but she had bad personality so that I couldnt' even get along with her, or even just did not have the same interests as mine so that we could not have many conversations, then I would also not date her. Face is just a threshold btw. Even if she was good-looking, as you had got along with her for long enough time being good-looking would not make sense any longer.
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I vote up what this guy said. Well, yeah, I admit that if two girls are equal in other respects except face, I will prefer the more good-looking one, but that does not mean I will put the largest weight to face when dating. If she was hot but she had bad personality so that I couldnt' even get along with her, or even just did not have the same interests as mine so that we could not have many conversations, then I would also not date her. Face is just a threshold btw. Even if she was good-looking, as you had got along with her for long enough time being good-looking would not make sense any longer.
If she was attractive but an idiot you might not date her but you would still f**k her.
Only guys who can't or never had ONS speak about dating disregarding the sex for fun aspect
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I agree with both you. If a girl is hot, but has a terrible attitude or personality then you don't want to do anything with her other than f... But personally being with someone who you vibe with ssssoooo much better.
Tehn84 My posts are almost always based on facts, common sense or personal experience something you clearly lack. I have worked multiple jobs in field marketing approaching hundreds of women, and you just can't accept the truth that women will never notice the difference between average tall and taller than that and even if 1/100 do, they dont care if your're 15 cm taller or 20. cm taller than them lmao.
But hey! Keep living your trashy lifestyle chasing trash slutty women at clubs while drinking yourself to death, craptalking everyone with more life experience with crap language online, while spending all your money going from tall to more tall. I'm just trying to tell you the reality, I have been in your shoes and it ain't worth it. No i'm not bluepilled, I just don't chase club garbage, infact I believe blue pilled men maybe like you, think that the only thing that matters is height cuz your're insecure, when in reality social skills, confidence, looks, style, charisma matters much much more. If you don't believe then look it up. Grow up and start acting like an adult and stop insulting everyone you think that it's wrong even when they have more life experience than yourself, thats just plain childish and pathetic...
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If she was attractive but an idiot you might not date her but you would still f**k her.
Only guys who can't or never had ONS speak about dating disregarding the sxx for fun aspect
We were talking about dating kid.
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I agree with both you. If a girl is hot, but has a terrible attitude or personality then you don't want to do anything with her other than f... But personally being with someone who you vibe with ssssoooo much better.
Tehn84 My posts are almost always based on facts, common sense or personal experience something you clearly lack. I have worked multiple jobs in field marketing approaching hundreds of women, and you just can't accept the truth that women will never notice the difference between average tall and taller than that and even if 1/100 do, they dont care if your're 15 cm taller or 20. cm taller than them lmao.
But hey! Keep living your trashy lifestyle chasing trash slutty women at clubs while drinking yourself to death, craptalking everyone with more life experience with crap language online, while spending all your money going from tall to more tall. I'm just trying to tell you the reality, I have been in your shoes and it ain't worth it. No i'm not bluepilled, I just don't chase club garbage, infact I believe blue pilled men maybe like you, think that the only thing that matters is height cuz your're insecure, when in reality social skills, confidence, looks, style, charisma matters much much more. If you don't believe then look it up. Grow up and start acting like an adult and stop insulting everyone you think that it's wrong even when they have more life experience than yourself, thats just plain childish and pathetic...
I'll bet dollars to cents I've fked more women than you, and looks (including height) matter a lot more than all the garbage you constantly try and peddle around here about being kunfidunt and secure. I don't need to 'look it up' and have my beliefs validated by a bunch of blue pilled Dr Nosebergs conducting a study, I can just use real life experience.
Won't engage your strawman argument except to say you wouldn't know if a girl cares if you're 15cm or 20cm taller, you've never been in either position being 167cm in Denmark. Any girl you're 20cm taller than would probably qualify as an actual dwarf - and no, I don't need official definitions and 'studies' for that, thanks.
I know why you constantly have to tell yourself confidence matters more though, cos at the end of the day, you're 167 in a country where the average is 182. If you had to accept reality it'd break you into pieces, so you kinda have to stick your head in the sand to cope.
Mm I see. BTW, which country are you from? You are not a native English speaker
Not gonna say where I'm from since it'd obviously narrow down who I am a bit much given the other stuff posted (i.e. where I got LL and how much I did).
We were talking about dating kid.
Look ching-a-ling, we all know you've never been able to have casual sex in your life, and you're most probably still a virgin given your propensity to scream incel at everyone who calls out your BS or tells you some home truths, but there's more than you can do with a woman except 'dating'. Plenty of girls will have sex with a guy they've only known for an hour or two, even in your home country of China - it's just you don't get to have any of it. The fact you instantly want to frame the conversation solely about 'dating' really says all we need to know about your women experience.
BTW, women laugh at guys like you who go on 8 dates before you get the bollox to kiss her and are happy to wait 6 months until you get sex. I've been in bed with Chinese girls where they're laughing at typical Chinese men like you and your 'dating' ideas. You'll be getting precisely 0 pussies wet being a manlet Chinese in China, meanwhile any 4/10 foreigner can come in and have a new girl each week riding his dck. Go on, rage and call me an incel, but them's the facts - the only incel (involuntary celibate) is you.
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We were talking about dating kid.
I am pretty sure I am older than you and I would keep my profile a little bit lower with your posting history and the fact you never touched a woman kiddo
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I am pretty sure I am older than you and I would keep my profile a little bit lower with your posting history and the fact you never touched a woman kiddo
lmfao this forum is really funny now. What if I touched one? ::)
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I'll bet dollars to cents I've fked more women than you, and looks (including height) matter a lot more than all the garbage you constantly try and peddle around here about being kunfidunt and secure. I don't need to 'look it up' and have my beliefs validated by a bunch of blue pilled Dr Nosebergs conducting a study, I can just use real life experience.
Won't engage your strawman argument except to say you wouldn't know if a girl cares if you're 15cm or 20cm taller, you've never been in either position being 167cm in Denmark. Any girl you're 20cm taller than would probably qualify as an actual dwarf - and no, I don't need official definitions and 'studies' for that, thanks.
I know why you constantly have to tell yourself confidence matters more though, cos at the end of the day, you're 167 in a country where the average is 182. If you had to accept reality it'd break you into pieces, so you kinda have to stick your head in the sand to cope.
Not gonna say where I'm from since it'd obviously narrow down who I am a bit much given the other stuff posted (i.e. where I got LL and how much I did).
Look ching-a-ling, we all know you've never been able to have casual sxx in your life, and you're most probably still a virgin given your propensity to scream incel at everyone who calls out your BS or tells you some home truths, but there's more than you can do with a woman except 'dating'. Plenty of girls will have sxx with a guy they've only known for an hour or two, even in your home country of China - it's just you don't get to have any of it. The fact you instantly want to frame the conversation solely about 'dating' really says all we need to know about your women experience.
BTW, women laugh at guys like you who go on 8 dates before you get the bollox to kiss her and are happy to wait 6 months until you get sxx. I've been in bed with Chinese girls where they're laughing at typical Chinese men like you and your 'dating' ideas. You'll be getting precisely 0 pussies wet being a manlet Chinese in China, meanwhile any 4/10 foreigner can come in and have a new girl each week riding his dck. Go on, rage and call me an incel, but them's the facts - the only incel (involuntary celibate) is you.
Pretty sure you are just an alt of that idiot who said fking women was more important than finding a good job. You don't need to tell me how more important it was again. We don't want to see you represent as a fool for one more time.
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Pretty sure you are just an alt of that idiot who said fking women was more important than finding a good job. You don't need to tell me how more important it was again. We don't want to see you represent as a fool for one more time.
It is more important, much more. Social experiences > muh number on a screen. The wagie goes out to slave away while the NEET overlord fks his wife. Such is your fate.
BTW, given you and your ilk like 'studies' so much, you should make yourself aware of the actual utility of having a good salary - the long and short of it is, going from 0 (i.e. starving with no shelter) to having your basic needs covered leads to quite a bit of an increase in happiness, and from there there's a much more moderate increase up to about $80,000 a year. After that point, having more money does not lead to increased happiness (and even up to that point it's very much a law of diminishing returns type thing, $60,000 is very very close to $80,000). You know what does cause increased happiness? Positive social experiences - the sort that you get from being able to bang girls that are attracted to you, forming good loving relationships, having a strong friendship group that does stuff together etc.
Of course you will not accept this, as you've been raised to believe the industrious worker ant will ultimately survive, while the lazy grasshopper will starve in the winter. Must cause so much cognitive dissonance when you're not getting the rewards society promised you after all those years studycelling in your room and kissing corporate ass while your taller, more handsome friends get girls.
lmfao this forum is really funny now. What if I touched one? ::)
It's blindingly obvious that isn't the case just reading your posts. Maybe you bought a whore or two but that'll be about it.
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I just did 12.36cm on one go in femurs. Some of what you said is right. Comes down to some can handle 12 in one go and some can’t. It depends on many factors and the person
You are 161.3 cm and reached 12.36 cm on femurs? Just curious, were your femurs longer than average before you started lenghtening or did you have high flexibility that enabled you to reach such goal?
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So the controversy is about the recommended 8cm maximum safe limit for femurs, or if the real safe limit can go even higher. Let me chime in.
There is no empirical or research data that defines 8cm as the safe maximum limit for femurs. I'm guessing by conjecture that the 8cm femur safe limit came from orthopedic research that the best bone regenerate is less than 15% of the bone length. Between 15% to 20% and it gets a little more worse. Beyond 20% and it gets more worse, so it's recommended not to lengthen more than 20% of your bone length.
Before 2020, the overwhelming majority of cosmetic leg lengthening patients were short men under 5'7" or 170cm. Short men between 5'4" to 5'7" had femur lengths where 20% of it would be around 8cm. So when Nuvasive released the Precice 1 nail in 2012 and Precice 2 nail in 2014 (I think those are the years), they want to keep it safe for the overwhelming majority of their clients and limit it to 8cm.
Since 2020, we have certainly seen a greater number of taller CLL patients over 5'7". In that case, 20% femur length for the taller patients can be more like 9cm or even 10cm. And yes, the safe limit is different for each individual patient.
Even if you go with a femur lengthening device where you can lengthen 9cm or more, it's still an increasing risk if you go over your safe limit. It's not as simple as playing a game at a casino for higher stakes, which can either lead to bigger gains or bigger losses. With casino games, you just lose money and you can always gain money back (assuming you're not too deep in debt or an addict). But if you lose the game of overlengthening, you'll suffer a lifetime of permanent losses like:
Excessive muscle tightness
Arthritis
Nerve damage
Bone deformity (bent nails which leads to bent bones)
Messed up walking gait
Loss of athletic ability (like running or jumping)
Being a handicap
Lost time
How treatable those complications are, and what if they arise during the lenghtening process and you might need another surgery to fix it. Do you typically have to pay for that or is it included in the original price (I'm specifically asking about Betz/Becker or Giotikas, but I'll be satisfied with a general opinion)
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Sorcerer let us just ignore people with low IQ, unrealistic believes and bad morals like this guy. He has already made a fool out of himself like you mentioned...
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Sorcerer let us just ignore people with low IQ, unrealistic believes and bad morals like this guy. He has already made a fool out of himself like you mentioned...
2 bluepilled cucks (one of whom at least is 100% confirmed a virgin, and the other who at most gets a few scraps from Chad's table) arguing against 2 guys who actually have been inside pussies, get ONS's, and have had relationships. Absolutely brutal.
Watch out for all those girls you're 20cm taller than bro. At 167cm height. In Denmark. ;D
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Sorcerer let us just ignore people with low IQ, unrealistic believes and bad morals like this guy. He has already made a fool out of himself like you mentioned...
I don't think you should attach yourself to a guy who posted 100's of times how short height is worse than leukemia.
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How treatable those complications are, and what if they arise during the lenghtening process and you might need another surgery to fix it. Do you typically have to pay for that or is it included in the original price (I'm specifically asking about Betz/Becker or Giotikas, but I'll be satisfied with a general opinion)
If the patient needs medical care or surgery to fix any complications from cosmetic limb lengthening surgery, the patient will have to pay for it (it's not included in the original CLL surgery price).
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Sorcerer let us just ignore people with low IQ, unrealistic believes and bad morals like this guy. He has already made a fool out of himself like you mentioned...
I don't think you should attach yourself to a guy who posted 100's of times how short height is worse than leukemia.
Also, don't get too attached to a major manic depressive who has had several suicide attempts in the past.