Limb Lengthening Forum
Community Hangout => Off Topic => Topic started by: Taller on December 23, 2013, 08:53:17 PM
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We, the LL community, are all too familiar with Sysop/Apotheosis. Unfortunately much of his fame has come from his habitual lying, or at the least, stretching of the truth.
One area in which the prophet, a former (and possibly current?) patient of Dr. Betz, stretches the truth is by claiming that he is completely proportional after lengthening over 20 CM. He posted before and after-LL pictures of himself to "prove" this. Shown first are the pictures he posted, taken straight from the lion's mouth. Notice how, while the waistlines are aligned in both pictures, in the after picture, Sysop's torso is smaller. The picture was taken from farther away and from a different angle! He is also wearing his briefs lower to make his torso look longer and his shoulders are also pushed down compared to the first photo.
To be completely fair in the representation of how Sysop looks following ~21 CM of LL, I took his before photo and added 11 CM to his tibiae and 9.5 CM to his femurs. This way, his shoulder position, and the photograph distance and angle remain constant. The result: the real Sysop.
You be the judge of whether you'd like to look proportionally similar to him or not. At least now the community has an accurate visual representation of what he actually looks like. I chose to post this because I feel that Sysop should have been honest about his proportions from the start if he was going to use them for educational/informative purposes on old forum .
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the best thing to judge someone proportion is to put him next to somebody else who is naturally at his height.
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You know what?
I actually think he looks fine.
I realise that is perhaps not what some people will want to hear but I don't personally think his proportions are off at all.
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I don't think he looks all that bad, but hopefully people don't take what he did and automatically assume it's the right choice for them. He may look okay but he'll never get anywhere close to prior strength or flexibility having lengthened as much as he did. I'm sorry, but no amount of persuading is going to convince me that one can lengthen that extensively and not be met with severe complications later down the line.
Don't sacrifice an absurd amount of function just for that extra height.
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The trick is to look at the pictures a bit zoomed out. You'll see it looks like he is standing on stilts. Also then picture him sitting down on a chair or a sofa to reveal his short torso with way too long legs.
Did anyone who met him in India take any pictures?
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You know what?
I actually think he looks fine.
I realise that is perhaps not what some people will want to hear but I don't personally think his proportions are off at all.
I have to partially agree with you and admit that I would probably be much more physically intimidated by him, if I met him in person, at 6'3 than at a hair under 5'7. And I can't deny that, with a long shirt on, few would notice his disproportionality. Honestly, I think getting his humerus bones lengthened may not be such a bad thing. He'll look more proportional and, since few people have done it while many are interested, he'll be the guinea pig for once. I do greatly admire that he followed his dream to be taller. I was just a bit upset about how he gave a skewed image of what he looked like after LL by manipulating camera angle and a number of other variables, and not stating it, when these variables clearly affected the image he showed old forum members significantly, possibly giving them unreasonable expectations or impressions regarding LL.
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Apo does look unproportional at the second photo, which you photoshopped, but since we don't usually walk around, go to work, go to the park, to the movies etc. with boxer briefs, I think he should be fine. He just has to remember to wear something when going out :)
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I have to partially agree with you and admit that I would probably be much more physically intimidated by him, if I met him in person, at 6'3 than at a hair under 5'7. And I can't deny that, with a long shirt on, few would notice his disproportionality. Honestly, I think getting his humerus bones lengthened may not be such a bad thing. He'll look more proportional and, since few people have done it while many are interested, he'll be the guinea pig for once. I do greatly admire that he followed his dream to be taller. I was just a bit upset about how he gave a skewed image of what he looked like after LL by manipulating camera angle and a number of other variables, and not stating it, when these variables clearly affected the image he showed old forum members significantly, possibly giving them unreasonable expectations or impressions regarding LL.
You have to figure that if he tried to physically intimidate anyone with his height and they called him out on it, he'd be in trouble. With weakening his legs from that much lengthening, a 5'3 guy could embarrass him physically with little difficulty.
2¢
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Kilokahn,
Theoretically this might be absolutely true, but in the "modern world" we human beings don't usually beat the crap out of each other to intimidate others. Physical intimidation, however, exists in height, which Apo now has plenty of. So in a practical sense, his legs might not be strong, but who would know about it except for himself, which makes him intimidating at the end. I agree that it's not functional (physically), but it's functional (socially).
I would rather be a normal 5'11 (180 cm) guy than a 5'5 (165 cm) pro UFC fighter.
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Kilokahn,
Theoretically this might be absolutely true, but in the "modern world" we human beings don't usually beat the crap out of each other to intimidate others. Physical intimidation, however, exists in height, which Apo now has plenty of. So in a practical sense, his legs might not be strong, but who would know about it except for himself, which makes him intimidating at the end. I agree that it's not functional (physically), but it's functional (socially).
I would rather be a normal 5'11 (180 cm) guy than a 5'5 (165 cm) pro UFC fighter.
I think most people would rather be an average 5'11 than a shredded 5'5 pro fighter. But what good is having the height if you're going to move like a grandfather the rest of your life and develop multiple problems down the line like early arthritis, permanent shin splints, complications with your blood vessels and nerves, etc? I don't think handicapped people get much social benefits, even the tall ones.
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Apo did too much lengthening indeed; but if someone stuck along with a good doctor and never did more than 8 cm on femurs and 6,5 cm tibias, I believe they would be fine. Do you have a reason to believe that Apo currently walks like an old man? Are there any videos of showing him walking?
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I'm wondering does this stilt look apply to, i should not say only him but let's say like me i want 180 cm 5'11 (starting height 165-169).
My legs wont be lengthened as much as his. But i think they look like stilts if you go into the "tall over 6'0" cathegory no?.
Sorry if you did not understand what i ment.
Been checking proportions for the last 2 years and i have noticed that it is over 5'11 that proportions become a problem. At 5'11 you are still "too short" for it to be of big significance.
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The picture has to be taken further away. He is 20cm taller now.
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I don't know about his pictures. If taken so close it's difficult to see if something's wrong with his proportions.
Some pictures of me doesn't look that good I think bc you can see that the legs are long. Doesn't look natural.
It could be bc I'm fit and Apo is fat that he gets away with it better.
I was taller than Apo to begin with. Height, wingspan, sitting height.
I still feel like a little guy being 180cm, especially when I sit down with people.
I have a hard time believing that Apo is lengthening his arms. I know he mentioned it before but actually doing it is completely something else.
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Sweden, may i ask how is your eye level compared to the rest of the population around you. Could you put on slippers and just go down to the store without feeling "dwarfed" by other people?. And maybe you see what you want to see?. To be honest no one cares about sitting height.
i am close as tall as my 6'1 friend sitting down and he has the worst posture and he don't even care that he is smaller because standing up is all that really matters.
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I was taller than Apo to begin with. Height, wingspan, sitting height.
I still feel like a little guy being 180cm, especially when I sit down with people.
Interesting that you feel this way. What is your sitting height, Sweden?
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The second picture looks really nasty... Seriously man, I showed it to my friends and they say he looks like an alien. I feel bad for him if he really looks like that in real life. I don't know why some of you think that he still looks normal in that second picture...
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Interesting that you feel this way. What is your sitting height, Sweden?
Around 93 something. I remember it was like ~2cm taller than Apo.
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I don't think I'm dwarfed but I can see that almost everyone is taller than me. I sometimes try to remember how small I must have been.
All of my friends are still taller than me. Well except maybe one that was 1-2cm taller than me before. I haven't seen him in 5 months now but we spoke the other day so I'll see him tomorrow.
Last time we met I was on crutches.
I can't say I felt significant taller than him.
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Around 93 something. I remember it was like ~2cm taller than Apo.
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I don't think I'm dwarfed but I can see that almost everyone is taller than me. I sometimes try to remember how small I must have been.
All of my friends are still taller than me. Well except maybe one that was 1-2cm taller than me before. I haven't seen him in 5 months now but we spoke the other day so I'll see him tomorrow.
Last time we met I was on crutches.
I can't say I felt significant taller than him.
Do you mean that they are taller than you while sitting or standing?
I find it a bit weird that you almost only have friends taller than 180 even in Sweden, because there should be around 50% below that height, it's almost the average after all. Are you sure of their heights or could it be that perception and old height neurosis come into play? Here in Norway I am a little over 170 and almost always the shortest guy around, but there are many 175-178 guys and even some my height or a little taller than me (̃~172-173).. I even know of guys that are shorter (~165) but they're obviously a minority.
Do you plan on staying in Sweden?
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Do you mean that they are taller than you while sitting or standing?
I find it a bit weird that you almost only have friends taller than 180 even in Sweden, because there should be around 50% below that height, it's almost the average after all. Are you sure of their heights or could it be that perception and old height neurosis come into play? Here in Norway I am a little over 170 and almost always the shortest guy around, but there are many 175-178 guys and even some my height or a little taller than me (̃~172-173).. I even know of guys that are shorter (~165) but they're obviously a minority.
Do you plan on staying in Sweden?
Yes I plan to stay.
I'm taller than most of my team mates so doing another 5cm would totally embarrass myself.
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I'm taller than most of my team mates so doing another 5cm would totally embarrass myself.
F*ck 'em! If you really want a few more cms then do it and don't worry about what people think.
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I know this is random but Apotheosis's femurs look really bad, and I've seen other cosmetic limb lengthening pictures with people who had thin femurs like him after doing the surgery. I guess mine will look bad as well? Oh great I don't even know how much I should lengthen to begin with and I don't even know if I will even be satisfied. Guys, what should I do?
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he doesn't look unproportioned at all, if you look at male models, lots of them have longer legs than usual, sure there are lots of men with 6'1 frame, but most model chosen because they have disproportioned legs that make them looks taller and slimmer, i know this from my friends who work at modeling agency
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I don't personally think he looks any different. He's certainly not someone I would look at and automatically notice had these proportions. The only thing that does concern me which several people brought up is the sitting height. Although I do wonder if it is something that the general population would really notice. For Apotheosis, it may be somewhat noticeable but in the interview he did with 20/20 I could not see a major difference between him and the interviewer. Obviously we are aware of it because it has come to our attention, but with things such as slouching would sitting height really be a big deal...
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Of course, the biggest issue with anyone lengthening the amount Apotheosis did is the range of lifelong problems you will have afterward. His potential for developing arthritis later down the line is higher than it would have been due to the extent of how much he lengthened as well as the increased pressure on his joints.
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Of course, the biggest issue with anyone lengthening the amount Apotheosis did is the range of lifelong problems you will have afterward. His potential for developing arthritis later down the line is higher than it would have been due to the extent of how much he lengthened as well as the increased pressure on his joints.
Wouldn't he have the same, or less, pressure on his joints as someone that naturally had legs that long? There are many very tall people who do not get arthritis.
Maybe his IM nails may have messed up his joints, though.
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Wouldn't he have the same, or less, pressure on his joints as someone that naturally had legs that long? There are many very tall people who do not get arthritis.
Maybe his IM nails may have messed up his joints, though.
Dr. Rozbruch said that going beyond 8cm increases the risk of arthritis because of the change in the ratio on the lengthened bone and excess pressure on the joints. Dr. Birkholtz said that arthritis developing after lengthening is likely due to increased joint pressures and related to the extent of the lengthening.
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Very interesting. At least, by lengthening ~10 CM on both segments, his tibia:femur ratio shouldn't be too off. Having 11 CM added only to the femur is what caused Tall on the other site some early symptoms premature arthritis.
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I'm not into pedantic measurements of a proportional person based on actually measuring the cm, but I just by eyeballing, he looks good.
But I think the more important issue is what Kilokahn said: "what's the long-term effect?"
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The long term effects are definetely the most concerning issue here. I saw another girl's picture which I have attached. She lengthened both her Tibia and Femur bones. She looks perfectly fine to me, it just appears she's one of those girls who's "all legs" which the last time I checked was a compliment!
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I meant the long term affects when it comes to Apotheosis for lengthening well over the recommended amount, I'm not referring to the lady in the picture---just to clarify
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Also, while "leggy" women are generally considered to look great, it's less clear whether similarly leggy men are considered nearly as attractive by women. I think that, after lengthening too much, many men look like they're walking on stilts. Does anyone have pics of men who lengthened a lot and still look great?
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I also forgot to add this girl lengthened by a total of 14cm (~5.5 inches).
You make a great point, I never really thought of that...I think typically a women with long legs is considered attractive while a man with very long legs...is not necessarily considered unattractive but its not something sought after. In any case even with the amount Apostheosis lengthened to me it doesn't look un natural just like he has very long legs and I swear I've seen men like that in real life. Nothing necessarily unattractive about it. He's tall thats what would initially stand out if i met him and had no idea who he was.
What I think looks the weirdest is when people have their tibia and femur bones out of proportion. Like when the tibia looks too long compared to the femur and vice versa. If both are lengthened to look proportionate to one another it can work, especially for ladies
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What I think looks the weirdest is when people have their tibia and femur bones out of proportion. Like when the tibia looks too long compared to the femur and vice versa. If both are lengthened to look proportionate to one another it can work, especially for ladies
Interesting. I definitely agree with you on this one, although I think that slightly long tibias look "alrightish", since many sprinters and male models have this trait.
I've met quite a few people, though, who are taller than me standing up, but shorter sitting down. These people almost always have ridiculously long femurs. Still, I wouldn't say they look weird, just a tad long legged. I've definitely never met someone who has legs as proportionally long as Apotheosis, but, if I did, I admit that I might not notice it right away, if at all, especially if clothing were masking his true proportions. Do you think you could post a pic of a celebrity or other well-known person who looks as though they have a "weird"-looking ratio such as the ones you mentioned? I'd love to see a visual representation of what you're talking about.
Also, do you think it's better to be tall and out of proportion, or short and proportionate? This was extensively discussed in another thread, but Apotheosis is a great case study that applies to the debate, so I feel it's also relevant to discuss here.
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I did see this picture of a famous athlete with relatively long legs compared to his torso. It's is from a thread on this forum and I probably would not have picked up on the length of his legs if it hadn't been pointed out. It is the first picture attached...Again it definitely not something I would consider unattractive by any means, it doesn't take away from his looks and I don't think it is something that would jump out to the human eye.
What I mean by what looks "disproportionate" is this man's legs in the 2nd picture post operation. His femurs compared to his tibia's look a little long to me in this picture. It's nothing major, again nothing I would notice initially but they just look a little long when I really examine the picture. Of course it is easy to say this now but in real life when we're not on guard, not thinking about proportions who would really notice that? I personally would want to make sure both these bones looks as proportionate to one another as possible on my body, but I know it isn't something others would really notice either way. I had never really noticed people's tibias and femur before (haha) but as you mentioned -Tall- there are people born with really long femurs so it's not like people's bodies don't actually look like that.
As far as weather I think someone short is more attractive who has great proportions vs someone tall who is un proportionate I would say it matters on the level of how off the person's proportions off. If it is by something negligible, something that would only be noticed if it was pointed out I would say the taller person is more attractive. If the proportions were so off as to make the person seem unappealing (really long legs, significantly shorter torso and arms to the point were its super obvious)I would say the short person would be more attractive. I do think that everyone's proportions very so much that in general LL will not make you look unnatural. People exist with long legs and shorter
torso-bodies come in so many shapes and sizes.
What do people think of arm length though? If one's legs are stretched say 15cm (combined cm for both the tibia and femur) would the arm length then become noticeable or would the difference be negligible to the human eye?
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I did see this picture of a famous athlete with relatively long legs compared to his torso. It's is from a thread on this forum and I probably would not have picked up on the length of his legs if it hadn't been pointed out. It is the first picture attached...Again it definitely not something I would consider unattractive by any means, it doesn't take away from his looks and I don't think it is something that would jump out to the human eye.
What I mean by what looks "disproportionate" is this man's legs in the 2nd picture post operation. His femurs compared to his tibia's look a little long to me in this picture. It's nothing major, again nothing I would notice initially but they just look a little long when I really examine the picture. Of course it is easy to say this now but in real life when we're not on guard, not thinking about proportions who would really notice that? I personally would want to make sure both these bones looks as proportionate to one another as possible on my body, but I know it isn't something others would really notice either way. I had never really noticed people's tibias and femur before (haha) but as you mentioned -Tall- there are people born with really long femurs so it's not like people's bodies don't actually look like that.
As far as weather I think someone short is more attractive who has great proportions vs someone tall who is un proportionate I would say it matters on the level of how off the person's proportions off. If it is by something negligible, something that would only be noticed if it was pointed out I would say the taller person is more attractive. If the proportions were so off as to make the person seem unappealing (really long legs, significantly shorter torso and arms to the point were its super obvious)I would say the short person would be more attractive. I do think that everyone's proportions very so much that in general LL will not make you look unnatural. People exist with long legs and shorter
torso-bodies come in so many shapes and sizes.
What do people think of arm length though? If one's legs are stretched say 15cm (combined cm for both the tibia and femur) would the arm length then become noticeable or would the difference be negligible to the human eye?
talking about the picture you shown, the tall guy looks a little bit disproportionate, not much, but the only thing that make him look disproportionate is his head. You see, most shorter people usually have smaller head and body compared to taller people, when you lengthen your legs, the proportion of your head would matter as well, for me to having small head make me unable to goes more than 10cm or it would make look like i'm wearing high heels compared to make my legs look long, usually bigger and wider hair could make the disproportionate goes away because it widen your head
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Yeah I think you're right. In my opinion torso length is negligible. I've seen people of all heights with various torso length and I really don't think that matters. I've noticed sitting height more than ever these past few weeks. My friends one who is 5'6 the other 4'10 (females) were sitting next to each other and there was about a 2 inch difference. The 5'6 girl's sitting height was about the same as the male she was sitting to who was 5'11.
However when it comes to nail length and head size I deff think that makes a big difference on how far you can go with this surgery. Short arms while not super unattractive will deff make someone look un-proportionate. I feel the same about someone with a small head and long body, that would look really weird....as does someone with a huge head and small body. Those are things to keep in mind, I myself have a small head to begin with so being too tall would deff throw off my proportions..
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SO I WAS TALKING TO SOMEONE THAT SAW APOTHEOSIS/ SYSOP IN INDIA, THEY WERE SAYING HE LOOKS TERRIBLE, HE WAS ALWAYS TRYING TO PULL HIS SHIRT DOWN TO HIDE HIS TORSO.
THERE WAS A PICTURE OF HIM RECENTLY THAT MADE HIM LOOK PRETTY GOOD, WAS THAT A EDITED PHOTO??
I AM THINKING 21CM OF LENGTHENING THERE IS NO WAY YOU WILL LOOK NORMAL!!
WHY ISN'T THERE A PICTURE OF HIM WALKING OR RUNNING? WHAT IS HE TRYING TO HIDE!!
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This really could have just been put in the other topic. No need for anymore separate threads regarding that guy.
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Agreed. But does anyone think his sitting height is actually 94 CM as he claims?
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We can't confirm that. But in India, he was advising several patients to increase their butt size to increase their sitting height.
I wasn't sure if he was serious. If you meet Sysop/Apoth in person, he really likes to joke around. So you don't know when he is serious and when he is not. Most people I spoke with think he's weird. I wonder if he thought about when he stands up, his big butt doesn't cover his short torso.
So maybe he can reach 94cm sitting down.... sitting over a thick wallet and layers of tissue paper in his butt pocket.
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So maybe he can reach 94cm sitting down.... sitting over a thick wallet and layers of tissue paper in his butt pocket.
This made me laugh out loud. Maybe next, he'll get butt lengthening surgery. Seriously, though, did he really look that bad in person? Could you tell that his proportions were off?
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And he definitely does have a thick wallet to sit on, with all the money he made off of the poor souls on old forum :P
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Why is it so important to you how another person looks like?? I guess he must feel comfortable in his body and I guess he will, cause it was his choice to lengthen this amount...
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To validate the assertion that 21cm is out-of-this world.
BTW, he will only feel comfortable if people around will envy his new height/look. The word apotheosis means the feeling of godlike stature, a delusion of grandeur.
Why is it so important to you how another person looks like?? I guess he must feel comfortable in his body and I guess he will, cause it was his choice to lengthen this amount...
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Why is it so important to you how another person looks like?? I guess he must feel comfortable in his body and I guess he will, cause it was his choice to lengthen this amount...
Hey Hanna,
You're right. I will stop talking about him and he's not important. Just that whenever someone mentions apoth/sysop, they stir some resentment. First of all, he scammed people to go to India for LL so he can earn commission (I'm not going into detail of how he specially promote certain doctors on his website). Every time I look at my leg discrepancy, the scars, and the bone pre-consolidation I feel resentment.
Secondly, last year, 10 minutes before being banned from old forum , Apoth played god with me. He pretended to be a poor kid from Vietnam asking me for donation. He texted me in Vietnamese and already I know he's a faker (a white man pretending to be Asian). I can't read any languages beside English unfortunately. And he thinks this is funny.
Thirdly, he edited my diary and my posts... including other Sarin's patients to make it appears that we are saying what we really didn't say... to make it sound funny and for whatever purpose that serves him.
And after my ex dumped me, I suffer from depression. So when these words mix together... old forum /Apoth/Sysop/India/Ex GF...I feel resentment. Well, that's my story. I feel no jealously of Apoth/Sysop. If you meet him in person, there's nothing to be jealous about really.
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When I was in Germany, I saw the girl who did almost 20cm in two LLs. She looked really fine for me, I would never say she had LL However all the treatment would have taken about 4-5 years for both LL..
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Hey Hanna,
You're right. I will stop talking about him and he's not important. Just that whenever someone mentions apoth/sysop, they stir some resentment. First of all, he scammed people to go to India for LL so he can earn commission (I'm not going into detail of how he specially promote certain doctors on his website). Every time I look at my leg discrepancy, the scars, and the bone pre-consolidation I feel resentment.
Secondly, last year, 10 minutes before being banned from old forum , Apoth played god with me. He pretended to be a poor kid from Vietnam asking me for donation. He texted me in Vietnamese and already I know he's a faker (a white man pretending to be Asian). I can't read any languages beside English unfortunately. And he thinks this is funny.
Thirdly, he edited my diary and my posts... including other Sarin's patients to make it appears that we are saying what we really didn't say... to make it sound funny and for whatever purpose that serves him.
And after my ex dumped me, I suffer from depression. So when these words mix together... old forum /Apoth/Sysop/India/Ex GF...I feel resentment. Well, that's my story. I feel no jealously of Apoth/Sysop. If you meet him in person, there's nothing to be jealous about really.
He just took Rgkey post and rename it to a new thread calling people s, so people think Rgkey was insulting others. Wtf. That's not cool.
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What does Rgkey have to say about this?
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This Sysop/Apo has some serious personality disorder, bordering to psychosis (symptoms of hallucination or delusion, outside of reality) even.
The Cruella de Vil of CLL.
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What does Rgkey have to say about this?
Rgkey confirmed he never called anyone an a**hole or s. The dckhead Sysop took Rgkey post, create a new thread and wrote a new title. Then it look like Rgkey was the one who started the thread.
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You can't trust anything on that site anymore. Even the honest members sometimes have their posts and diaries corrupted by Apo/SysOp.
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say what?? why?? im lost?????
Rgkey
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say what?? why?? im lost?????
Rgkey
He don't care about you and only wants money in order to support is own journey "LL" .
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let me just repeat my self.
We are all brothers and sisters here, all LLers or future LLers!!! here in this forum or over there in old forum or in the future some old forum I don't know. I really just want to help the LL community by sharing my experience and knowledge. I have no interest in who is right or who is wrong or who owns what. I don't have any problems with anyone, only one guy in this forum had big issues with me but im glad that conversation is over)))) Peace and love to all my brothers and sisters!
Rgkey
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let me just repeat my self.
We are all brothers and sisters here, all LLers or future LLers!!! here in this forum or over there in old forum or in the future some old forum I don't know. I really just want to help the LL community by sharing my experience and knowledge. I have no interest in who is right or who is wrong or who owns what. I don't have any problems with anyone, only one guy in this forum had big issues with me but im glad that conversation is over)))) Peace and love to all my brothers and sisters!
Rgkey
We are all brothers and sisters in this forum.
The old forum there's only big brother who wants to get paid. There is a lot of evidence to support this.
I'm glad you are here RGKEY. Your story here won't be edited or deleted here because there isn't a big brother on this forum trying to profit off of deceiving LL'ers.
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let me just repeat my self.
We are all brothers and sisters here, all LLers or future LLers!!! here in this forum or over there in old forum or in the future some old forum I don't know. I really just want to help the LL community by sharing my experience and knowledge. I have no interest in who is right or who is wrong or who owns what. I don't have any problems with anyone, only one guy in this forum had big issues with me but im glad that conversation is over)))) Peace and love to all my brothers and sisters!
Rgkey
I don't have issues with you, it's in the past and finished. Welcome Rgkey. 8)
I want to make general comments.
LL Forum exist precisely for LLers to have a real community without corruption , egomaniacs and dictatorship.
old forum is not a community, it's one person's playground where he can hid patients diaries away and disable PM for most members
You cannot call somebody a brother if they SELL OUT. I'm talking about those so called respected old forum veterans known as Crazy6, Sweden, Tall and Apotheosis. who abuse the people trust to shill for various doctors.
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I was just reading Apo/Sysop's replies on the accusations about old forum (about censorship, about Phantom, about Sysop's visit to India).
Did he mention about why he didn't disclose Apo and Sysop are the same?
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Did he mention about why he didn't disclose Apo and Sysop are the same?
Nope, I couldn't find that part neither.
But let me be in his shoes for a moment.
I guess when you come to the guesthouse, walk into every single room and tell everyone there that you are both Apoth & Sysop from old forum and that your real name is sysop. And everyone knows you by Apoth/Sysop/sysop, then it's really hard to refute that claim.. especially when it's his words against 20 other patients who doesn't know him, who has no qualms against him, who are only there for LL, and who doesn't care about his drama vs. Sarin. It's going to be tough and I guess he knows his priority, which is to defend the fact that he was con artist first.
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Dr Betz even posted here that Apo / sysop are the same.
Nope, I couldn't find that part neither.
But let me be in his shoes for a moment.
I guess when you come to the guesthouse, walk into every single room and tell everyone there that you are both Apoth & Sysop from old forum and that your real name is sysop. And everyone knows you by Apoth/Sysop/sysop, then it's really hard to refute that claim.. especially when it's his words against 20 other patients who doesn't know him, who has no qualms against him, who are only there for LL, and who doesn't care about his drama vs. Sarin. It's going to be tough and I guess he knows his priority, which is to defend the fact that he was con artist first.
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Thank you very much Mediocre and orlandoflorida for your welcoming words)))) And orlandoflorida I'm sorry I never meant to piss you off. You know some times brothers fight lol but they make up))
Now at the last stage of my LL I have a lot of experience and knowledge that I'm willing to share to help others. Specially now that I have all the time in the world to do it. After I go back home I'm not sure Ill be able to come to the forums as often as I do now.
Rgkey
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Ah... You two, so sweet.
And orlandoflorida I'm sorry I never meant to piss you off. You know some times brothers fight lol but they make
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Thank you very much Mediocre and orlandoflorida for your welcoming words)))) And orlandoflorida I'm sorry I never meant to piss you off. You know some times brothers fight lol but they make up))
Now at the last stage of my LL I have a lot of experience and knowledge that I'm willing to share to help others. Specially now that I have all the time in the world to do it. After I go back home I'm not sure Ill be able to come to the forums as often as I do now.
Rgkey
Thanks for sharing your experience RGkey. Your approach Brother to Brother in LL community touched me.
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So does Apo really have bad proportions? Anymore anecdotes from those who knew him during lengthening?
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Apo looks fine.
Those who think he is not are simply guys with personal issues against him.
he does have small arms and feet for his height though. However, I have met many guys who tower me ( around 6+ inches taller than me) and wearing the same shoe size as me.
In short, the looks normal.
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Adriano,
I believe that you were also the only one who commented that Crazy 6+ looked fine when I showed those natural/unaltered photos.
A bald head, a wrinkled face (mid or late 40s) and a 21cm+ of disproportionate body... followed by a quirky personality and an inability to obtain a full-time job which result in praying on short people online for money - if all these qualities look fine to you then so be it. I guess everyone's standards are at different levels.
Actually... I still keep in touch with people who have met Apoth in person. I would like to take a screen-shot of their comments and post it on here one of these days.
I also remember that you like to lengthened over 5 inches but that is no need to defend demi-villain like Apoth.
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It doesn't matter what people think he looks like as long as he feels comfortable in his body. Just my 2 Cents... And I think he looks fine, too.
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He has the same sitting height as me, roughly 93ish cm. I know sitting height isn't 100% accurate but it's a good estimate l someone's proportions. I look weird in any mockup past 181cm. There's no way he looks good at 190. I've never met anyone taller than 6'1" with my sitting height. Ever.
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are his arm photoshopped in the after pics or did he lenghten those. does anyone know his wingspan and before/after height?
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are his arm photoshopped in the after pics or did he lenghten those. does anyone know his wingspan and before/after height?
I don't think they are. I think he said his wingspan was about 179-180cm.
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I reckon if he stuck to 182cm he'd have looked much better.
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There's no way he looks as good as he claims at his height.
I know you all don't like using sitting height in determining proportions, but his sitting height is around 93.5 - same as mine. Obviously, it's not completely accurate - but it's good enough to get a rough estimate. People with the same body length aren't going to have sitting heights that vary by 4-5cm. No, it'll vary by a matter of <1 cm.
Anyway, beside the point - his sitting height is 93.5. I believe him, mainly because looking at his stadiometer picture, he has the same torso length as me. At 188cm, a 93cm sitting height puts him below the 5duth percentile for SH/H ratio. Even if you doubt the accuracy of sitting height, it's hardly like he's actually in the 50th percentile for torso/leg ratio and his sitting height lets him down. No. We can safely assume his proportions are below the 5th percentile. To put that into perspective: that means in a room of 100 people, only 5 will have his leg/body ratio or worse.
Furthermore, My mockups clearly show I cannot pull off more than 6' - even then, I look quite leggy. I'm pretty sure I'll be doing 5cms on femurs and calling it quits. I'll be 180-180.5cm, in better proportion that Sysop, and still be a good solid height. I wouldn't want to be 6'2" anyway, I don't feel like a tall person - 5'11" is more than enough.
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Quit beating a dead horse. Does it matter what his proportions are? Unless you have the exact wingspan/starting height and plan for 20cm , start worrying about your own proportions.
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Quit beating a dead horse. Does it matter what his proportions are?
Unless you have the exact wingspan/starting height and plan for 20cm , start worrying about your own proportions.
Of course it matters. He's telling people he looks 'fine' and 'great' and posting sketchy photos pointed at flattering angles, giving naive people the impression that they too can lengthen 20cm and look fine too. Not everyone can lengthen 20cm from a proportions perspective, yet he's saying they can.
And for the record, I have the same length torso as him, the same torso width, and a 6'1.5" wingspan, and I'm 100% sure that at his height I would look weird. Enough for me to prefer being 180cm over 188cm.
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Of course it matters. He's telling people he looks 'fine' and 'great' and posting sketchy photos pointed at flattering angles, giving naive people the impression that they too can lengthen 20cm and look fine too. Not everyone can lengthen 20cm from a proportions perspective, yet he's saying they can.
And for the record, I have the same length torso as him, the same torso width, and a 6'1.5" wingspan, and I'm 100% sure that at his height I would look weird. Enough for me to prefer being 180cm over 188cm.
Right on. I've got a 180cm wingspan and very similar starting stats to him and mock ups over 182 cm start to look freaky. Obviously he looks ok when he was doing his modelling shot with his arm dipping touching his boxers but when standing normally no.
It is a bit of a circle jerk regarding proportions though on LL forums everyone likes to say that other people look fine because no one wants to be seen as unsupportive. I've now seen several cases where people are fooled by the clothing some guy who is sub 165cm to start with, who does a huge lengthening (over 8cm) then saying he looks fine even though its obvious the arms and hands are too small for that height. People will want to hit certain targets regardless of how their proportions look. I now get why the best doctors are the most conservative when it comes to this. The big gains muck up natural bio-mechanics e.g tibia is 80% femur length.
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Who cares what other people think, as long as you are satisfied with your height??
Is your own life so boring that you keep on thinking about a stranger's proportions??
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They can look alright, until they sit down.
That's where you truly see something is very off with this person.
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Better to do mockup of your own proportions and post it for others to comment, then waste time guessing what somebody else look like. It's all different for every individual.
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They can look alright, until they sit down.
That's where you truly see something is very off with this person.
This is what I mean in that there are way more aspects to becoming taller with LL than just getting the cm.
Your added height now effects every part of your body.
It needs to be taken more seriously in this community.
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I didn't meant to be snarky. I really don't understand why people keep on discussing about Apotheosis' proportions and to allege that he might have edited his pictures because he CAN'T look good after lengthening 20cm. I actually met patients who did around 16-18cm that looked great. Of course that doesn't mean that everybody could lengthen that much, it's very individual, but at least it's possible.
Of course some people can lengthen 20cm. My argument is Apo hasn't pulled it off aesthetically as well as he claims to, and that's dangerous for the community because they'll be people with shorter torsos than him thinking "Hey, his body is only 1-3cm longer than mine, I can lengthen the same length and look practically the same" when in reality they can't. It varies from person to person.
My point it, given all the evidence Sysop gave us with his original photos/sitting height, It's hard to see how he can look as "great" as he claims he does. If he's happy with his proportions, good for him. I just want people to really consider before doing excessive lengthening of 10+ whether they really will look fine afterwards, or whether they're deluding themselves. Height>proportions in most cases, but that doesn't mean proportions don't matter. Apotheosis is using himself as evidence to push forward his claim that "proportions don't matter" when that evidence, as many of us have noticed, is faulty or fraudulent.
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No healthy human can pull off 20cm.
Photos are not real life.
If we all would sit down when SySop is towering us and then be at eye level at the table would make everyone wonder.
Especially if there's a natural 6' guy who will have a taller sitting height than him.
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Hanna and Risingshorty are right.
Let's move on from this garbage topic. I just typed an essay post but decided to delete it and replace it by this one line. Every time I see my crooked legs in the mirror, I feel pissed.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2u58kuf.jpg)
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Hanna and Risingshorty are right.
Let's move on from this garbage topic. I just typed an essay post but decided to delete it and replace it by this one line. Every time I see my crooked legs in the mirror, I feel pissed.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2u58kuf.jpg)
Surely if you want to move on from this topic, you can do - just stop viewing it and posting to it. I thought we weren't like the old forum - can't we let those who want to discuss something discuss it with others who want to discuss the same thing? I don't see why you need to stop everyone talking about something just because you don't like it for whatever reason. Proportions are important for me - if you're not going to let me talk about them here, and old forum is a anti-proportions circlejerk, is there literally no place for me at all?
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Sure, if you want to continue this topic, I don't mind. I just feel that we're doing him a favour every time someone mentions him.
The previous poster already revealed Sysop/Apoth was a con man in his mid 40 and from New York. I already felt suspicious 2 years ago when I read an interview saying that his original height 5'6 (google for yourself). A few months later his starting height became 5'7 with a sitting height of 93cm. My friend told that that he was less than that. My friend was 90cm and sat higher than him. I don't know why anyone would like to fake himself but now I understand that it was his attempts to hide his freakiest disproportion. I was so naive but only to reveal a few months later going to India and coming back with crooked legs. My doctor was on his recommended list.
Going back to the topic of proportion, it really depends on your individual body. Proportions varies from person. There is no one standard that can fit all for all persons. If you want you can post a picture and we can help you determine how much you can lengthen.
Proportion is very important to me as well. That's why I think I can't go anymore than 5cm on the femur.
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Ok, sorry for keeping the conversation going. It's just that I only started looking into ll three months ago, and that was only on the other site too. I've missed what the heck has happened and reading everything has helped to a degree, but I still have a million unanswered questions about Sysop, old forum , and the rest of that stuff. I guess I'll just let it die :P I'm a bit behind that's all.
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Unfortunately these discussions should continue so the newcomers are made aware of all of the scams and con men out there.
If I was ready to do LL early last year I would have gone to Sarin. If I was ready last fall and didn't know about the scams I would have gone to sringari. Either way I probably would have been f'd up. I'm glad that he was exposed and the newcomers should know about it.
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Admin Edit Note For Thread:
Everyone had their fair say about this topic and it is just going in circles with nothing new being said. A few people have express that we should move on from it and I agree. Therefore I urge everyone to move beyond this thread.
Including the last post by gettingtaller
"Btw, for what it's worth I met apo in Germany. He looks very good."