Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: microman on July 15, 2015, 06:45:24 AM
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have just arrived in serbia, should meet mitkovic today.
starting height: 164.5
goal: 170
but i will have to see if i have a short enough tibia to pull off that gain, so i await my x-rays.
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Hey you made it :D Did everything go according to plan when you arrived there? No issues with the pickup or getting to the hotel?
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nope none at all.
had consultation with dr mitkovic, he did a basic measurment of tibia and femur, apparently i have
tib 33cm
femur 43cm
i was really surprised actually, since i have short legs, but we will get a proper scan tomorow.
he said his recomendation is 4cm, but you can do 5cm, he said 80% of patiens can do 5 safely, and 20% should stop at 4cm, he basically implied to not go over 5cm, i was a little dissapointed by this but my safety is paramount.
He said if you get misalignment say at 4.5cm due to soft tissue you must stop at 4.5cm, for discretesuser it was different, he got misalignment due to pre consolidation, so he could continue lengthening.
so we agreed to be positive and aim for 5cm, at least my proportions will be great both in wingspan and tib/femur ratio, but i may end up 169 post op.
the important thing is my health first, then accepting my height and move on with this issue i have, rather than trying to obtain some sort of good height like 173 or whatever from LL.
he says for consolidatoin i can get x ray every 8 weeks in the UK, that will maek thing much easier for me, he is happy to write an official letter in english for the UK.
he said cleaning pin sites is easy job to do yourself.
interestingly enough he never measured my height or anything, i guess it's immaterial to LL as your starting height has nothing to do with the process.
a words up on mitkovic and the hospital manager, pretty sure these guys are 5 8.5, so you may be taller than them if you meet that at 5 10, actually youd be even taller given the male average in serbia is higher than UK, just be prepared.
for pain level he said 90% of patiens don't use painkillers after surgery, don't know if that's good or not.
in case your wondering why mitkovic did one leg at a time for discreteuser that was because he was develeping a cold so he had to stop after the first leg, its not he was trying some new better way to do it.
upon removal of device at home, he said first you remove device and keep pins in , then walk for 1 week, then you remove pins then send device back, he said there is pain when you remove pin.
while lengthening you turn 4 surfaces a day, example
8 am
10am
12am
2pm
then nothing until next day, each surface is 0.15mm, so that's a total for 0.66
all taxis use dinars here, so you exchange euros for dinars in a local shop away from hotel, the shop says on it manjacima, i would suggest doing this before operation so you can pay all taxi fares for 3 month period.
also the x ray gets done once a month while lenthening, i thought it was weekly, price on that may be about 100 euro a time, but it will be in dinars.
i am to bring passport tomorow morning at 8:30 for my blood test/ phyc test and proper x ray scan, they need id for myself, my hotel has kinda taken my passport as is, my last meal is to be 7pm tonight due to the blood test.
he said during lengthenig beer is aloud, but only 1 per day.
overall i am happy i went with mitkovic rather than barinov, although with barinov using ilazarov i know you can do 6.5cm, maybe with mitkovic i can only do 4.5.cm but it's unknown, i prefer light weight bar and removal of device at home.
i would alway binrg notebook and pen with you to these meetings, very helpful.
taxi to hospital is 200 dinars so you will need that, for retun that is 400 dinars. so x that by 12 to 4800 to get back and forth weekly for cleaning of pin sites.
for x ray it is done elsewhere, i don't know where, but mitkovic will tell me, maybe it's not far, i don't know, that will cost taxi money as well, you go on your own but mitkovic will sms you the details to tell them what you need.
i think hotel accepts euros and dinars for staying.
you stay in the hospital for 6 days, maybe the hotel can keep some of your stuff in the room without you paying the rent, i don't know.
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With a 10cm difference between femurs and tibia you could do 6cm and still look good.
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yes i was very relieved, my max goal is 6, id be happy with 5.
(http://i.imgur.com/LVMoRlMl.jpg?1)
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Congrats Microman! I am also from the UK and I will be following your thread closely. I am also planning LL with this dr hopefully in 2016/2017. I was in touch with him a few months. Good luck and I hope you succeed
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It doesnt seen like 10cm of diference
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Dr. Mitkovic seems to have gotten more conservative since I was there. He told me 7cm would be "reasonable". Did he say why he's only recommending 4-5cm to you?
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yes i was surprised to hear him say that, the other patients here said mitkovic said to them that they can go for 5cm, and if 5cm went well do 6cm maximum.
for some reason he said much less during consoltation for me but i don't know why.
i would be happy with 5cm anyway, we will see how it goes.
discreteuser is very helpful for me in this process, he show me all th exercises and without him i would not be here, likely i would be in russia with barinov as i thought that mitkovic retired this whole time.
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That's awesome. Even if Dr. Mitkovic is off by a few cm (which I doubt), you still have the potential to do a large amount of lengthening before your tibs get too long for natural function. I wouldn't give his 4.5cm recommendation too much thought though, as he's perhaps just preparing you for the worst case scenario, which is understandable when most LL patients run into difficulty with tightness around the 4cm mark.
Like you, I'm also aiming for 6cm, but 5cm is the minimum I would want to achieve from this.
Did you get a date for your surgery yet?
This information is invaluable to me btw, so keep it coming! :D
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yeah it is saturday morning.
i recomend when they book you in for blood test and phyc test and xray, for that day you are to come in , bring your cards and money as they may ask you to pay for the operation on that day, its important to bring the money in then as you will get a better date for operation if you book then, so remeber that.
also bring a belt with a screwdriver as there is a good exercise that discreteuser has that needs those tools.
it is funny about the gain, as the patients say they had people do 8cm before, but when you ask mitkovic or his nurses they all say 5 max, maybe they are trying to be safe or keep my expectations within safety
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That's strange, But I'm thinking he just wants you to manage your expectations right before you undergo lengthening, plus you got to keep in mind, the more you lengthen, the more time he needs to invest in you, plus the increased likelihood of any self induced complications which could arise the longer you lengthen past his recommendations.
And yeah, no problem, I'll have this in order before I leave. I still need to sort everything with my bank.
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his name is pronounced ‘meet-koh-veech’ and i would say he is about the UK/US equivelant of a 168 male given that people are taller here,,apparently, so he is not a good but not bad height, not that that matters, but some people may feel silly for getting LL when the surgeon is shorter than themselves.
everyone is serbia is taller as male average is maent to be 182, so i have shrunk 5cm in perspective, aparently, but im not sure it is true as i have seen a few men my height in a typical walk, which implies i cant be 5 3 as 5 3 would be super rare.
dr. mitkovic doesn't care how tall you are, he never even measured me, but the hotel staff know why you are here, so in case of discreteuser people were saying 'no why you are so tall anyway', so to let you know ewf you will get some bad feedback from hotel people so be prepared.
Apparently only about 5% of patients go home for consolidation, this is not because of safety or anything, it is more because they cannot go back and be seen by friends/family with questions about mobility, but discreteuser told me he recommend I go home if my parents know because there is no reason to stay.
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I was kind of glad that my surgeon is tall (he's 6'2 in a country where the average male height is 5'5). It was really awkward telling my GP that I wanted to get CLL since he's probably 5'6 or so, and I probably insulted him by saying I desired to be taller due to people giving me a bunch of hell due to my height.
Did you ask Dr Mitkovic what he thinks about taller people getting CLL?
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lol well if he really was 6 2 hed be super super tall, like being 6 7 over here.
yeah it is akward i can imagine, as i said in your diary both my local doctors who i told about this were 168.5cm, i know because i was in 4cm lifts to see them, i would say mitkovic was in the same category of height of 'a bit on the short side' but not truly short like me.
i don't think he cares, he never said one thing about my height, i don't know about discreteuser given he was 181, i will ask him if mitkovic reacted to his height with questions.
but the phyciatrist is not good at accessing the impact of my height at all.
he said thigs like ' i dont see a prolem with your height, tom cruise is short'
i told him he wasn't 5 5, that he was 5 7, and id be his height after surgery, i then went on to tell him that the president of france is 5 5 but lives inside 4cm lifts all day which are unwalkable for more than 1 hour.
he said al pachino is short, i think hes 168 which again much taller, but he said ' he seems huge because of his personality', but its like a guy who is 170 (i guess that is phyciatritist height) cant understand what its like to be me at 165.
anyway i tried to explain that if i was 5cm taller i could walk into a room of 30 men and 8 guys would be my height, it would be normal, i would accept that height, and i wouldn't be 'short statured male'. but if i wanted to be in a room with 3 men my current height it would have to be a huge venue of maybe 200 men or something, and people judge you in small groups of people.
i also said i don't know anyone personally who is my height, but i know alot of people that are 4cm taller than me, and the diffrence is huge because they are not truly 'short'.
but yeah KiloKAHN you and i are in similar boat of starting height, so we understand each other in a sense.
visited mitkovic today, he can do 0.66 or 1.00 depending on the qaulity of my bone, and he will let me know, he said once i reach 5cm i must go down to 0.66 anyway.
i told him i am aiming for 5.5.cm, he said okay.
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Yeah, I heard this from Discreteuser myself. Apparently even the Serbian ladies are quite tall too. I've chosen to stay in Serbia until I'm done, not that I couldn't go home, but I can still work from Serbia and I'd just rather get the whole process over and done with without having to explain my decision to anyone, plus it does help that Dr. Mitkovic won't be too far away if anything does go wrong.
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i see your goal height is 10, okay you wont be able to do that with mitkovic device, it would probably be 7cm max, its not like ilazarov which can probably do 9cm, so i would check that with mitkovic first.
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That's perfectly fine. 187cm to 188cm is literally my dream height, and would be the result of two surgeries if I ever go that far. However, I would never do more than 6cm per segment, even if I were doing femurs. So I won't actually be going past 182cm with Dr. Mitkovic.
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With the risk of declaring myself an idiot, the 5CM recommendation is for a tibiae operation yes?
Then would he raise that limit to perhaps 6CM for femurs?
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actually he says the recomended lengthening is 5cm tibia and 4cm femur.
i think what he is saying is, he doesn't want you to go above 5cm, but you do it at your own risk and he will try to help you reach your goal.
DiscreteUser says 6cm should be the maximum anyone should do on this device, i guess he means tibs but i don't know femur.
i dont know about femur with mitkovic device, i thought femur external is really bad and you should only do internal, but maybe mitkovics device isn't so bad for external femur because it is a monorail but i dont know.
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mitkovic does do femurs, it has been said that the surgery pain is way worse then tibia but after that it is much the same thereafter.
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Good luck with your surgery tomorrow. Here's to hoping all goes well.
Let us know how it goes :D
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good luck with your surgery microman.
also just to clarify. external femurs is most definitely not the same as tibia after 2 weeks. they are completely different experiences. :)
if you go above 5cm for femur iv been told you can develop permanent muscle weakness.
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You are talking about 5cm+ femurs with externals, or femurs with internals as well?
I've heard that the muscles get damaged by the pins piercing through so much muslce mass that it creates heavy damages.
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Wish you all the best for your surgery microman.
I too planned for 5cm height gain initially, but as my lengthening was about to complete, I got greedy ;D Now I am doing 5.5cm instead.
Till 4.5cm, everything was good, it is my safe maximum. The last 1cm feels like I stretched my muscles a bit more than they can handle. My ankles are a bit stiff now, something like ballerina foot, but not severe, I am sure that will be alright with regular PT. If I go any further, I will surely get ballerina foot, which might not be fixed with PT.
So, at around the 4.5cm or 5cm lengthening, you will know how much more lengthening your muscles can support. Take a decision accordingly irrespective of the doctor's advice. Every individual is different, doctors generally quote the generic-safe limit.
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Doctors in my country also recomended 5cm with the external ilizarov method. But i read this on the forum for treatment not for plastic surgery.
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had surgery, yean it's not painful, its more 'majorly discomforatble'
really it just feels like someoe has placed a heavy anvil on my legs,and it's crushing them, but its not true pain at all, i had laser hair remoal which was more pinful than this.
but, the issue is that this crushed leg feeiing is 24/7, there is no possibility to sleep like this at all.
i belive this is temporary and it will be gone in a few days.
yeah im going for 5cm, its all i need to be happy so its not worth all the time it woud take.
MRbones maybe that's the case for lon but the monorail devie may be diffent.
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Hey man, I've been waiting for your update all evening :D It's good to hear you're not in any major discomfort. Maybe the nurses will give you something to help you sleep if need be, but yeah, it's probably just temporary.
Any idea how long the surgery took? And no complications at all?
Thanks.
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Right now you're feeling the pain from the operation, not the pain from lengthening. You'll recover from this in a few days.
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yeah i asked for sleeping pill, the nurse didn'tunderstand me, but i used google translate app on android phone and she understood so please bring that with you.
got about 3 hours sleep, i think your brain will at least get a main sleep despite the pain for about 3 hours anyway so its all good.
surgery was 2.5 hours apparently, mitkovic didn't mention any compications
today woke up in much less pain, soo much better.
i havent been moving my legs at all, no ecercises, the doctor didn't tell me to do so.
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doctor visited me, showed me exercises, did them for few hours pain increased, so asked nurse for painkiller.
i know that using painkiller is not ideal, hopefully i wont have to do this again, the pain was the same s before but it is such a long time with pain i had to stop it for a few hours.
discrete user told be he used one painkiller in hospital, so i don't feel so bad about it.
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Good to hear. I'm not sure why taking painkillers is not ideal in this situation, but I will be taking them if need be, at least until the initial swelling goes down.
Also, how's the internet connection at the hospital? Just asking because I'll be working the entire time lol
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its good, and yeah i don't know if painkillers are bad, they may not be, ill ask mitkovic next time i see him, i do think they lose its effect if you keep on using them, so far i have only used one, tomorow the pain should be less anyway, as each day it gets less.
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That's a relief. And yeah, see what he says. Have you tried to stand upright yet?
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not yet, mitkovic siad i would soon though, but discrete ser says not to try and walk until 3 weeks post op.
okay last night i sadly requested another painkiller, pain was maybe level 4, but the issue is that it is constant and can't sleep, even with sleeping pill.
got to sleep from 2 am to 5 am, despite that i feel very well rested, as long as i got some solid sleep.
its 5 am now and i just woke up with 1/10 pain, lets hope this day stays like this as it would be a great relife.
physio exercises are getting much better.
there are also 2 patients here doing dual LL tibs and femur with mitkovic, one even got the femur operation while the tibs device was still in place on the tibs, maybe about 4 months into consolidation.
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Hi microman
Congrats on your ll journey! I am a little surprised that you actually did it so fast after I saw your posts not too long ago.
You are the man!! Be strong and get well!!
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Congrats! It will all be ok just hang in there! ;)
On a side note, do you have any information about Mitkovic femur device?
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its the same device, its external monorail.
hospital wifi works well, i am able to stream south park episodes so you can watch videos most of the day.
food is good for hospital food at least, yoghurt, bread and pate, soup, fresh water, sausages.
hospital staff are very good, sadly my main nurse doens't speak any english so as mentioned before just use google translate via android phone.
the dr. said he doesn't expect misalingments but all the patients said everyone gets misalingments with monorail devices, which is one drawback of them comparid to other devices like ilazarov.
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Great things are going really well for you! What do you mean by misalignments? Meaning the bone being bent or something? Mitkovic told me I would not be in any pain at all by looking at my X-RAYS. 5.1 centimetres is my aim as well!
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happens all the time with monorail, the bone kindof pokes out at a certain point, you will find out more about it if you choose to use this device.
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Great things are going really well for you! What do you mean by misalignments? Meaning the bone being bent or something? Mitkovic told me I would not be in any pain at all by looking at my X-RAYS. 5.1 centimetres is my aim as well!
when ur muscles start resisting lengthening it causes ur bones to mis align..if u do 5cm ur bone wont mis align enough to cause any permanent loss in function..it may just cause a bump on ur shin which the doctor can get rid of easy after distraction phase.. normally starts happening at about 2.5cm.. mitkovic says the same thing to everyone.. ''you have very good bone'' ''u wont have any pain''.. everyone will experience pain.. some more than others.. but the pains bearable so dont worry about that..
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malalignments should not be common or acceptable
the mono fixator is simply not strong enough for most people
it's a very big disadvantage
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something to do with the pins sliding, i belive its an issue with monorail devices in general, even if ilazarov devices can have it it can be more easily corrected than with monorail.
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3 weeks is such a long time on your back man, it would drive me nuts. Are you even able to get from your bed to a wheelchair on your own right now? Do you just ask for assistance when you need to get to the bathroom?
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hmm probably could and that is what i will be doing in 4 days time when i am in the hotel, but for now they just bring pee bottle and a poo bowl when requested.
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I don't think I could bring myself to do that in a bowl lol but two broken legs may change my mind :D
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I don't think I could bring myself to do that in a bowl lol but two broken legs may change my mind :D
hes the first ive heard of thats done that here lol.. better option prob just to get them to help u into ur wheelchair then go to the bathroom..
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hes the first ive heard of thats done that here lol.. better option prob just to get them to help u into ur wheelchair then go to the bathroom..
Yeah I definitely prefer that option lol. I've never actually spent any time in a hospital before, so this is all kind of new to me.
Thanks.
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i just said i needed a poo and he brought out the bowl, he never offered an alternative.
have asked nurse to give me a much smaller painkiler tonight at 2 am along with a sleeping pill.
although the pain level is low i really need to garuntee myself at least some sleep each night.
but i have great fear ahead, the fear of the unknown, will i get alot of complications? will i have a harder time than most, or an easier time.
the whole process is a lottery, some patients have an easier time than others and i don't like the uncertainty.
but i would be 100% happy at 5cm, so if things get tough ill pull the plug there and then and be so happy i got through it and made it there.
and external monorial femurs are totally not ever happening later on for me, not even if someone paid me to do it,id just be happy at 171 via a little lift of some kind like nike air and then that's my height problem solved and i can live life at my fullest with nothing getting in my way.
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and external monorial femurs are totally not ever happening later on for me....
I thought Dr Mitkovic offers his SIF (selfdynamisable internal fixator) device which is somehow internal.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21119939
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I'd try not to give it too much thought at this stage Microman, you're on the right path now. Going ahead with the surgery was the biggest decision you've had to make and that's all behind you now :D
Plus, you're definitely in good hands over there.
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ye he had internal but the factory doesn't make it any more or the second batch failed his internal testing.
its external monorail only from him.
btw half the reason i avoid external femur with mitkovic is because id be happy with my height, the other half is that id only get about 4cm out of it anyway due to wingspan, so don't let any of that put you off doing monorail femur if your situation is somewhat different from mine.
i would say for femur its likely that 5.5cm would be the maxiumum gain, if you want more go with guinchet or something.
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Great to hear you've started your LL journey microman! Hope the pains not too bad from here on. Looking forward to your insight and pictures later on. Did the Dr ever mention how the fibula was going to be lengthened since I know the device doesn't touch it.
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Great to hear you've started your LL journey microman! Hope the pains not too bad from here on. Looking forward to your insight and pictures later on. Did the Dr ever mention how the fibula was going to be lengthened since I know the device doesn't touch it.
theres a screw that is fixed through the bottom of the fibula into the tibia..
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Good to know, I've been wondering about that thanks man.
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I have heard that some will lose a few millimeters after lengthening aren't you scared of finishing with 4.80? Today I asked Dr.Fahkri at the clinic about shrinking he said if i do 171 I may be 170 in some years.
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lol losing a cm in a few years post. op. never heard of anything like that myself.
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I have heard that some will lose a few millimeters after lengthening aren't you scared of finishing with 4.80? Today I asked Dr.Fahkri at the clinic about shrinking he said if i do 171 I may be 170 in some years.
load of bullocks... . in a few years time ur new bone will be just as strong as the original bone so its not just gonna magical decided to compress.. and a few millimetres? even if it was true i doubt anyones gonna spot it.. ''geez, have you shrunk? i swear u were 2 millimetres taller last time''.. lol
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load of bullocks... . in a few years time ur new bone will be just as strong as the original bone so its not just gonna magical decided to compress.. and a few millimetres? even if it was true i doubt anyones gonna spot it.. ''geez, have you shrunk? i swear u were 2 millimetres taller last time''.. lol
I for one am going to go an extra 2mm just to be safe (in 2 years) ;)
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Can you record yourself when you lengthening?
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Microman,
you met someone who lengthened the femur with Dr mitkovic?
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yes, its much more painful than tibia,and pain lasts maybe 2 weeks instead of 2 days, i think, and max gain is 5cm.
he actually did tib and femur with mitkovic device 171-182 i think.
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hey microman, hey discreet user, hope you guys are doing well.
samuimw
I have heard that some will lose a few millimeters after lengthening aren't you scared of finishing with 4.80? Today I asked Dr.Fahkri at the clinic about shrinking he said if i do 171 I may be 170 in some years.
shrinking is impossible. it does not happen once you are consolidated enough.
increase
Microman,
you met someone who lengthened the femur with Dr mitkovic?
hey increase, I thought I would chime in and make my username know. I am the femur patient.
my main reason for chiming in is just to clarify the femur question.
yes, its much more painful than tibia, and pain lasts maybe 2 weeks instead of 2 days, i think, and max gain is 5cm.
he actually did tib and femur with mitkovic device 171-182 i think
yes femurs is much more painful for 2 weeks where as tibia is much less pain and discomfort and only last for 2 days, for example I was able to walk unaided the day after surgery for tibia. but for femur its 3.5weeks after operation and I can not even lift my 1 pound foot off the ground because of the shear pain. my point is the pain does not stop after 2 weeks.(I haven't even listed all the types of pain) that is the biggest difference between tibia and femur. the pain does not stop after 2 weeks. it gets slightly better is all. but your ability to use your leg is gone. probably for 6 months.
ps just incase people are curious. the only other patient I met who did external femurs had femur frames on for 1 year and 3 months.
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are you saying you need 15 months to get to frame removal for femur when doing 5cm?
if you were to give a difficulty score out of 10 for mitkovic device tibia and femur for 5cm, what would that be.
example
tib 4/10
femur 8/10
thanks
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external femur surgery is extremely rare.
like 5% of people on this forum will ever get 1 surgery, the other 95% of people will be dreamers and never get a single LL for the rest of their life.
and something like 3% of that 5%(who do 1 surgery) will get 2 surgeries.
in all the years of the forum we have like 9 people(maybe more) who did 2 surgeries.
so basically there is no way I can tell you how long femurs take with mitkovic as no patients ever get it done basically. theoretically and scientifically speaking though femurs should take less time than tibia to consolidate.
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as for numbers im not going to do that. I am not finished my femurs yet(so I can not compare objectively), and the pain is getting worse as time goes on. my description in my last statement is very accurate, you should be able to work out the effort required for tibia and femur from that as I described it clearly. I will answer that question when I finish.
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okay wow, the pain is getting worse now, that seems interesting.
i wish you the best of luck, i think with this new information i may try to aim for 6cm on tibs since i will be avoiding femur now.
but i look frward to hearing about the experience when it's all done
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Microman, hope your well. Any chance of a pic of your frames? Do you sleep on your back or sideways? I sleep on my side and was wondering if these frames allow so?
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MRbones you are lengthening tibia and femur?
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yeah you can sleep on your side, i may post pictures later.
actually cbick66 on the old forum has a diary with a ton of pics
reason for edit: url link
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increase
MRbones you are lengthening tibia and femur?
im doing both. tibia is already done.
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im doing both. tibia is already done.
you recommend to 2 LL (tibia and femur) to whoever stretch above 8cm?
you think it is worth lengthen the femur by monorail (external) or is only recommended to tibia?
Thanks for the answers
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yeah you can sleep on your side, i may post pictures later.
actually cbick66 on the old forum has a diary with a ton of pics
reason for edit: url link
I was actually wondering this too since I pretty much always sleep on my side, so that's a relief.
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you recommend to 2 LL (tibia and femur) to whoever stretch above 8cm?
you think it is worth lengthen the femur by monorail (external) or is only recommended to tibia?
Thanks for the answers
most people will never have the balls to do 2 surgeries. always do tibia first.
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most people will never have the balls to do 2 surgeries. always do tibia first.
Why do you suggest doing tibia first?
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Microman how you feel? Do you still have pain?
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legs very stiff, right foot is swolen, when i put on ground and try to sit it flat it hurts.
i showed mitkovic that yersteday anyway so im sure it is okay and i should continue lengthening, i am doing exercises to combat it.
pain at is 4/10, i have payed hotel staff for painkillers,i should get them in an hour or so, i hope it helps, panadol.
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Is it really necessary to be in Nis during that 8 months? Becuse i live about 500km away from Nis. Is it enough to se dr Mitkovic once in 15 day?
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ask him.
i am trying to do 6 turns a day, which gives 1mm as per mitkovics advice.
however it starts to get hard on the 4th - 6th turns, last night i chose to only do 5 turns due to discomfort.
my plan for today is to space them out strategically, and start early, that way i should be able to get all 6 turns
i will try today at these tiems to turn
7 am
9 am
11 am
then since these turns will be harder i wil space them out longer
1pm
4pm
7pm
that way discomfort should dissapear by 10pm and i should get sleep.
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I wonder how it feels. I will start lengthening soon 75mm a day. How is the pain like ? is it like stretching your bones out or something like that?
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have you been doing all your turns for the day in 1 go till now?
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1 go? , no lol its spaced out im just spacing out the last 3 turns more than the first 3.
first 3 turns: 2 hours apart
last 3 turns: 3 hours apart
hope that makes sense, it was just an idea i had since i had discomfort towards the end.
pain can be similar to 1st day post op. pain , but the issue is that it makes physio worse to do, usually this is towards last 2 turns really.
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how much you lengthen your legs now?
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dont have x ray to confirm but should be at 0.7cm
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0.7 Cm? what' s all the height you have lengthened?
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0.7 Cm? what' s all the height you have lengthened?
due to the fact that the device with most patients doesnt start lengthening until 5mm of turning he may well only be up to as low as 2 or 3mm.. its pretty stupid when u think about it.. been told numerous times to do 4 turns a day but still does less for some reason... thats why certain people shouldnt do this.. because they dont have anywhere near the toughness for this.. and if u dont have toughness it can take up to 2 years just before walking normally again.. even if u only do 5cm.. he has severe ballerina aswell and hasnt even lengthened a cm, cant even stand up with the walker.. this is an absolute recipe for disaster
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Severe ballerina from less the a cm? That means he wasn't doing any physical activity...
But what's the lengthening rate with this device? Isn't 1 mm/day like with Ilizarov?
Although I'm not a doctor, I recommend some pre-operative physical training as it will help with the recovery!
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its fine now, discreteuser came to check in today and it was fine, i think it's about 90% flat however he says as long as i keep it as flat as it is up until the final cm i should be fine for balerina.
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its fine now, discreteuser came to check in today and it was fine, i think it's about 90% flat however he says as long as i keep it as flat as it is up until the final cm i should be fine for balerina.
yes but u must walk.. u still havent walked.. u need a physio therapist otherwise u wont be able to get up on your own.. listen to what i said about getting the physio in otherwise ull be in for a very very long recovery
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It is damn confusing that Microman has been a member for such a long time with nearly 500 posts. He must have read other people's diaries and must have took notice of the importance of PT and walking! This is not a walk in the park and no way you will be walking or be back to 'normal' when you take your frames off. It will take you at least a year just to walk properly. I believe the majority of patient written diaries show it can take 1-1.5 years to be back to 80%. Take the advice microman otherwise it be much harder for you
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would u recommend mitkovic? its really good price.
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yes i would recomend him, he is the cheapest and one of the better places to go mostly due to staying in hotel.
anyway
Dr. Mitkovic arrived tonight to check my x-ray, he said x ray good, no pre consolidation or any other issues, I had a bone fragment in the left leg but he said that that’s actually a good thing and it’s better than having a perfect gap like the right leg has, he said I am good exerciser after viewing my straight leg, ballerina and lifting the leg up and down straight, he said he would guess I am at 1.5cm but he can confirm by taking the cd to check on his own.
I asked him if it’s okay to be about 2 weeks late using the walker and if it would affect recovery much, his sheet sais ‘use walker after 3-4 weeks’ after all, he said not to worry about that and it is perfectly fine to use the walker at a later time.
He said the walker is not important right now, he said the most important thing is 4 surface turns a day and exercises, so I am going to follow the doctors advise and spend more time doing exercises rather than trying to stand up/walk with walker.
according to x ray i have done 1.6 cm on right leg and 1.5cm on left leg, so that puts me at 166cm. i find that interesting as going by my chart i should have gotten 1.4cm per leg, and that's assuing the first few mm didn't distract, which clearly they did, and then some? i wonder where the other 2 mm came from?
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yes i would recomend him, he is the cheapest and one of the better places to go mostly due to staying in hotel.
anyway
Dr. Mitkovic arrived tonight to check my x-ray, he said x ray good, no pre consolidation or any other issues, I had a bone fragment in the left leg but he said that that’s actually a good thing and it’s better than having a perfect gap like the right leg has, he said I am good exerciser after viewing my straight leg, ballerina and lifting the leg up and down straight, he said he would guess I am at 1.5cm but he can confirm by taking the cd to check on his own.
I asked him if it’s okay to be about 2 weeks late using the walker and if it would affect recovery much, his sheet sais ‘use walker after 3-4 weeks’ after all, he said not to worry about that and it is perfectly fine to use the walker at a later time.
He said the walker is not important right now, he said the most important thing is 4 surface turns a day and exercises, so I am going to follow the doctors advise and spend more time doing exercises rather than trying to stand up/walk with walker.
according to x ray i have done 1.6 cm on right leg and 1.5cm on left leg, so that puts me at 166cm. i find that interesting as going by my chart i should have gotten 1.4cm per leg, and that's assuing the first few mm didn't distract, which clearly they did, and then some? i wonder where the other 2 mm came from?
Microman.. Listen to me and listen to me very carefully.. Dr Mitkovic is a very kind man, and he will always tell you everything will be ok and that everything will be fine.. your finding any excuse not to walk, which is a shocking attitude.. the fact that he told u that u r a good excerciser proves that he will just tell u what u want to hear..cause ur not a good exerciser..uve lengthened 1.5cm which is barely an amount to have any problems at all.. i know from experience that the doctor doesnt check how bent ur legs are, he just quickly looks and says, yeah that looks good,without actually knowing.. youve basically convinced yourself that not walking is ok.. i cant believe u can be so ignorant.. seriously.. even after i told u how important it is... u needed 2 grown men to help u just to stand up onto your walker and then u panicked and said it was too hard and had to be put down immediately.. and now ur saying u can get away with not walking still.. lets say u dont walk for another week or so, uve lengthened more, ur legs are worse than they are now, how do you expect to get yourself up? ull end up telling urself its impossible and then continue not to walk.. if ur too lazy to do it now, ur not going to do it later unless you have assistance.. so start doing it now.. stop being so lazy, get a physio in so he can force you to use your walker.. and keep using the physio until you can do it yourself.. ive told u all this before so u have no excuse.. the information is there, so use it.. otherwise ull be a potato for a very long time..
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if you have severe ballerina at 1 cm... which is really strage, then youre going to have serious issues
you should stop lengthening... i cant imagine how bad your ballerina will be over 5 cm
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oh man pt is so important but so expensive!
so..mitkovic is not behaving properly when he says everything ok? why does he do that?
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oh man pt is so important but so expensive!
so..mitkovic is not behaving properly when he says everything ok? why does he do that?
well he doesnt want patients to worry.. so as long as they are happy hes happy.. the thing is if i had something wrong i would really have to show him for him to understand.. he told me my legs didnt have any knee bending but then i said ''but look when i sit on a hard surface'' and only when i showed him he said.. oh you must stretch, use weights to push it down etc.. the thing is microman only believes what he wants to believe.. so he has someone like me who is experienced with having this device, telling him what he should do, but because it requires effort he chooses to ignore.. the doctor comes in and just says, yes u r doing ok.. the reason the doctor says he doesnt have to walk yet is because his main concern is the patient can move their legs, thats it. them making a recovery to being able to walk isnt really any of his concern because he is the surgeon not the physio therapist.. the less you do during the lengthening, the more it builds up.. i even told microman about another patient, who didnt walk the whole lengthening phase.. his operation was 9 months ago.. he still cant walk properly.. he has to do strict physio therapy now just to allow him to even stand up with a walker etc.. yet i had my surgery 5 months ago and i can walk normally, do everything myself, go and have a good time.. but still he chooses to ignore because he only cares to do what is easiest for him now.. which is do effortless stretching on the bed and not have to walk..
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Hello,
microman, can you update your situation? Please post some X-RAY pictures.
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On X-ray posted with Dr. Mitkovic device I never saw fibula fixed. Can you post some picture that fixation can be seen?
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i dont have pics, i got cd from xray place but i dont have cd drive.
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that's me at 4.3cm, everything going well.
will see the doctor next week after an x-ray, then he can tell me how much further lengthening i can do, maybe i can go to 6.5cm but i will let him be the judge.
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that's me at 4.3cm, everything going well.
will see the doctor next week after an x-ray, then he can tell me how much further lengthening i can do, maybe i can go to 6.5cm but i will let him be the judge.
high microman.. are you able to walk or stand yet?
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yeah i can stand up straight with the walker and i do some walking here and there each day.
have some right foot balerina, when sitting down at a 90 degree angle it is about 3cm off the ground, here is a picture.
http://i.imgur.com/txHzD6G.jpg?2
will try to work on exercises to make sure it at least doesn't get worse than that.
left foot balerina is much better, probably 2cm off the ground.
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hmm that ballerina looks pretty bad to be honest..from what ive studied anyway.. howdo you stand up straight when you have ballerina?
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I also have a little ballerina now at 4.5 Cm ,but I only have when I stand up not sitting down . How come you can stand up straight?
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i meant stand up straight as in my legs arent bent, i stand up on tip toes.
i spoke with medium drink of water and he said his balerina was worse when he finished lengthening and body builder on the old forum said he had 6-7cm balerina in which he had to do ATL surgery to fix it.
keep in mind that is me sitting at exactly a 90 degree angle, with 100 degree my heels are on the ground, not that that matters but maybe Samuimw you were not measuring yuor balerina at exactly 90 degrees on the seat?
usually i do 2 hours per day stretching to fix balerina, i'll upgrade that to 3 hours per day to be safe.
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pretty cool that your standing, walking etc btw.. would you be able to send me a picture of you standing microman.. in the mirror..
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i'll see what i can do i'd have to prop up my phone and it would need a timer built into the camera
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take a video.. than screen shot it?
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ill see what i can do, is it just to see how straight my legs are or is it the ballerina, because sadly my walker is too tall for me so i have to go on my tip toes anyway to stand up straight, even if i didn't have any surgery i'd be on my tip toes.
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ill see what i can do, is it just to see how straight my legs are or is it the ballerina, because sadly my walker is too tall for me so i have to go on my tip toes anyway to stand up straight, even if i didn't have any surgery i'd be on my tip toes.
didnt you say you were walking everyday? how do you walk on tip toes
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i think with balerina you can stand up for long periods of time on tip toes, i don't feel it is the same as actually standing on tip toes.
i think it's kindof like lifts or high heels, its like your heel stops naturally so it's not stressful to be on tip toes.
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i think with balerina you can stand up for long periods of time on tip toes, i don't feel it is the same as actually standing on tip toes.
i think it's kindof like lifts or high heels, its like your heel stops naturally so it's not stressful to be on tip toes.
how do you walk then?
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i think with balerina you can stand up for long periods of time on tip toes, i don't feel it is the same as actually standing on tip toes.
i think it's kindof like lifts or high heels, its like your heel stops naturally so it's not stressful to be on tip toes.
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micromn, that is serious level of ballerina........
ballerina is not measured when sitting down, although it gives us a good indication of your real ballerina, so the picture is usefull .....
of all the patients I have ever met I have never seen a patient get ballerina while sitting down..... I always thought it was next to impossible for a patient to get ballerina that bad..........
have you told mitkovic about it?
you might have like 6-8cm of ballerina possibly.
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my heels don't lift up when sitting no matter if 90 degrees less or more. Only when standing up I have my heels above the ground. Because of ballerina my doctor told me to stop lengthening for 1 week to rest the soft tissues on muscles. Maybe it's a good idea?
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that might be, maybe it's best 1 turn per day giving 0.16m just to make sure no pre-consolidation?
yeah last week i showed mitkovic it off the ground while sitting and i stretched using the strap on the bed, he said it was okay ???
ill have to buy a walker that fits my height to confirm what my balerina is while standing.
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at 4.5cm there is no danger of preconsolidation. the callous is pliable for a very long time.
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Spoke with dr. mitkovic today about ballerina and ATL as well, he said he has had many patients with severe ballerina and it always goes away when you start walking with full weight bearing during consolidation, he said not to worry about ballerina.
Regardless im going to lower distraction rate and work on trying to get my ballerina better.
I will get an x ray tomorrow or next day then dr. mitkovic will come and see me and he will see my ballerina in person, we should have a better idea then.
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What has been your average lengthening each day? Looks like you are going slow so I am surprised you have ballerina.
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spoke with dr mitkovic,
he said my muscles are quite tense and recomend me 2 days break then go to 0.5mm a day, he said he wouldn't recomend higher than 6.5cm to me, he said if i try to go to 7cm i would get misalingment, however most patients here got misalingment anyway at around the 3cm mark, maybe it was a different type of misalingment?
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had a 6.5cm review with dr mitkovic and a new x-ray for him to see.
he said i could go to 7.0cm and the risk would be minor misalingment, it would not be as bad as the misaligment that discreteuser had at 2.7cm, his was more moderate to major.
spoke to another patient here who got major misalingment at 3.5cm, he said they tried to fix it 3 times then he had to do a minor operation to finally fix it, that was also a major misalingment.
the dr. said i would have a high chance of major misalingment at 7.5cm.
i have decided to go to 7.0cm and risk a minor misaligment, but it is likely i wont risk the major misalingment to 7.5, interestingly the other 3 patients before me had major misalingmets at around 3cm so in context things seem very good so far.
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had a 6.5cm review with dr mitkovic and a new x-ray for him to see.
he said i could go to 7.0cm and the risk would be minor misalingment, it would not be as bad as the misaligment that discreteuser had at 2.7cm, his was more moderate to major.
spoke to another patient here who got major misalingment at 3.5cm, he said they tried to fix it 3 times then he had to do a minor operation to finally fix it, that was also a major misalingment.
the dr. said i would have a high chance of major misalingment at 7.5cm.
i have decided to go to 7.0cm and risk a minor misaligment, but it is likely i wont risk the major misalingment to 7.5, interestingly the other 3 patients before me had major misalingmets at around 3cm so in context things seem very good so far.
First off, congrats! 7cm is a huge and impressive gain on tibias. Makes me a bit less scared to do about 3.5-4cm on tibias...how is your consolidation looking at this point? Has your doctor estimated the time it will take from them to consolidate enough to weight bear?
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thanks and surprisengly the doctor doesn't give estimates based on x-ray, he just tells people '7-9 months until frame removal' whether you do 5cm or 7cm lol.
but for weight bear monorails are very different to ilazarov so it will take much longer to be able to stand unaided, i guess 9 months post op. if your doing 7cm.
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had a 6.5cm review with dr mitkovic and a new x-ray for him to see.
he said i could go to 7.0cm and the risk would be minor misalingment, it would not be as bad as the misaligment that discreteuser had at 2.7cm, his was more moderate to major.
spoke to another patient here who got major misalingment at 3.5cm, he said they tried to fix it 3 times then he had to do a minor operation to finally fix it, that was also a major misalingment.
the dr. said i would have a high chance of major misalingment at 7.5cm.
i have decided to go to 7.0cm and risk a minor misaligment, but it is likely i wont risk the major misalingment to 7.5, interestingly the other 3 patients before me had major misalingmets at around 3cm so in context things seem very good so far.
I dont think that you hve taken a good decision. If you are now at 6.5 without missalignament stop here. It does not worth it to do 0.5cm more are develop a misaligment . Even if it is minor.
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well that's kindof the opposite of my mindset, seems misalingments are common here, the other 3 patients before me got moderate misalingments at 2-3cm and they are all fixed so i don't see an issue, overall i am prepared to have a misalingment anyway as they all did before me.
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spoke with the doctor today, good news is nothing has changed since the last x-ray! we thought perhaps a minor misalingment was going to happen but it didn't.
im at 6.7cm now and he advised 3 more mm to 7.0cm and then a new x-ray to check everything is okay before further lengthening.
I think it may be a case of stopping at 7cm but we don't know for sure, overall he wasn't against the idea of stopping at 7cm but he did want to see an x-ray at 7cm first to be sure.
I don't have any particular set goal in my mind so im happy to stop at 7.0,7.5 or 8.0cm depending on safety.
i would never go above 8cm as i know that is safety limit, i have never seen one doctor say over 8cm was safety limit.
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Could you post a picture of your proportions? I am curious what 7CM on tibia looks like. Thanks!
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okay here is a side view
http://i.imgur.com/KnnS1Mw.jpg?1
my femurs are still 2cm longer than tibia.
prince2 has good shots of him standing with 8cm added he says they are equal length, but he isn't sure.
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Wow, I expected your proportions to look really bad, but they actually look really good! It looks like your femur is still 5+ CM longer.
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thanks!
and why would you think it would look bad, some people can have tibs as long as femur, so even if i went to 9cm it wouldn't look particuarly bad.
i will never do more than 8cm anyway.
there is someone on the old forum that made his tibs longer than femur, the only one that has done that.
you can check his diary on that place, to qoute
my case is a bit more unusual. My tibias are slightly longer than my femurs, and most vets have it the other way round. Before LL, Dr Xia said my tibia was 7cm shorter while Dr Zhao said it was 6.5cm. Not sure which is correct but I lengthened 8.3cm, so I definitely do have longer tibias than femurs now. – shootingfor6cm
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thanks!
and why would you think it would look bad, some people can have tibs as long as femur, so even if i went to 9cm it wouldn't look particuarly bad.
When I wear 10CM lifts for fun (which actually give 7CM over normal shoes), my tibiae look really long for my height. Nobody else seems to notice though, as I wear pants over them. It doesn't look horrible but not great persay. Like a lot of RGKey's pics.
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i am at 7.2cm, dr. came to see me today.
he said if i go further there is a 25% chance i will get bowed leg in one leg, he would correct it with a device anyway, he said he has had to do this with about 20% of his patients, maily the ones that go above 6cm, so it's not an uncommon thing.
just have to decide whether i should stop or not, will spend the next few hours deciding, i like the idea of leaving with no complications and with 7cm.
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Its a good height. One cms is only in your mind.
7 cm is the limit for a good recovery, your have a life to enjoy your live.
Manage the pros and contras, but more cm than 8 is greed and if your leg are bowed, I think its a check point to stop.
Best regards
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Oh wow, that's mean. How'd you manage to come across that?
Jesus man what do your arms look like?
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Jesus man what do your arms look like?
They're actually perfectly normal looking because they're natural? I've never noticed that they were short except when I do a double bicep pose. I think having a think frame drastically lowers your wingspan.
EDIT:
Read a post on measuring wingspan by laying down on tape measure. Realize that I was measuring with protracted shoulder blade last time. Updated wingspan LOL.
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Hi microman,
Can you give us an update. Thanks! I hope you're doing better now.
Tiny
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any updates would be appreciated microman, thanks
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It seems that he is just the typical LLer who recovers great and starts enjoying his new height, never thinking about LL and thus abonding this forum :) I think if he had any problems he would let us now. Anyway, his proportions look really well. I think that for proportion purposes lengthening tibias is MUCH better. The average person has no clue that the femurs are supposed to be onger so he will notice 2 bones that are similar and will not think anything is wrong :)
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Don't make that inference. We don't know how he's doing and out of respect shouldn't speculate.
Also if anything, he probably decided not to post anymore considering that that ED page was posted and what not.
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aspirant,
your assertion that a typical ll recovers great has no basis in fact
it seems to be what you hope is true, but is contradicted by the majority of diaries
you've postulated your conclusion, which is also known as circular reasoning
people stop their diaries suddenly for all sorts of reasons... No evidence is no evidence though
the evidence we have leads to the conclusion that cosmetic ll leads to lesser function in a large % of patients
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aspirant,
your assertion that a typical ll recovers great has no basis in fact
it seems to be what you hope is true, but is contradicted by the majority of diaries
you've postulated your conclusion, which is also known as circular reasoning
people stop their diaries suddenly for all sorts of reasons... No evidence is no evidence though
the evidence we have leads to the conclusion that cosmetic ll leads to lesser function in a large % of patients
Your assumption is baseless to the same degree as his assumption which is 100% contradictory to yours. Also remember that the majority of diaries were done by patients that went to bad LL doctors.
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It seems that he is just the typical LLer who recovers great and starts enjoying his new height, never thinking about LL and thus abonding this forum :) I think if he had any problems he would let us now. Anyway, his proportions look really well. I think that for proportion purposes lengthening tibias is MUCH better. The average person has no clue that the femurs are supposed to be onger so he will notice 2 bones that are similar and will not think anything is wrong :)
Oh man, just lol at your "typical" LL'er, if only that were true ... pure fantasy
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If anything, my assumption that if somebody stops writing that is because he is doing great is much more likely than the opposite, that he has problems. To say the least, if you are doing great, you quickly forget the procedure, the forum, move on. If you have pain, well that will prevent you from forgetting and moving on and is likely to make u come here, either to complain, or to ask for advice, or just to warn others.
Think about it. If somebody has problems, he might at least come here for an advice. I ve read many diaries, mainly from Guichet and Mitkovic, where people were diong great throughout the whole lengthening, did not have any problems, and suddenly stopped writing. This is the case here. What do you think is more likely, that he has or has no problems ?
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Your assumption is baseless to the same degree as his assumption which is 100% contradictory to yours. Also remember that the majority of diaries were done by patients that went to bad LL doctors.
There are 30+ Betz diaries.
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There are 30+ Betz diaries.
Betz was a fraud with his so called Betzbone and people lengthened there insane amounts...
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If anything, my assumption that if somebody stops writing that is because he is doing great is much more likely than the opposite, that he has problems.
Think about it. If somebody has problems, he might at least come here for an advice. I ve read many diaries, mainly from Guichet and Mitkovic, where people were diong great throughout the whole lengthening, did not have any problems, and suddenly stopped writing. This is the case here. What do you think is more likely, that he has or has no problems ?
I keep a strength training log .. I post my personal records a lot more than I post about my failures. I assume that most with a diary would be similar - and keen to share their positive progress, while minimising the negative with the occasional vent
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I keep a strength training log .. I post my personal records a lot more than I post about my failures. I assume that most with a diary would be similar - and keen to share their positive progress, while minimising the negative with the occasional vent
It makes no sense to boost about positives and hide negatives from people..when the sole purpose of the online community is to seek help from people to...surpass the negatives. I think you are an exception.
I am challanging anybody to give link to a diary from Mitkovic or Guichet (excluding that crazy asian dude who did 10cm) who reported problems aftewards.
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It makes no sense to boost about positives and hide negatives from people..when the sole purpose of the online community is to seek help from people to...surpass the negatives. I think you are an exception.
People will post their best selves online see facebook, instagram for examples. What thatdude950 does is standard practice.
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People will post their best selves online see facebook, instagram for examples. What thatdude950 does is standard practice.
Seriously, you compare Facebook and Instagra, the very definition of place where people show off , with that forum, where people want to be as anonymous and as under the radar as possible :D :D That is your comparison ?
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It makes no sense to boost about positives and hide negatives from people..when the sole purpose of the online community is to seek help from people to...surpass the negatives. I think you are an exception.
I am challanging anybody to give link to a diary from Mitkovic or Guichet (excluding the exception that did 10cm) who reported problems aftewards.
So your signature is out of date then? You've moved from Betz, who you thought was one of the good doctors, to some others. Here's the tip - it's not a few rotten apples, but the whole barrel.
It makes sense to share some negatives/questions/fears etc... But that's easier in the recovery process while there's still hope. but to tell the whole story at the end (if it's bad) and basically admit you made a giant mistake takes huge balls and mental strength. What's more likely is a slow, invisible disappearance ...
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No, I am still going to Betz. Regardless of the negative diaries. There are also plenty of positive ones. People that are around 165 go to Betz and lengthen 9+ , that is asking for trouble, regarding where you go .
With that being said, I might still go to Mitkovic , have not completely made my mind yet. if I manage to get 6 month time out from work I would most likely to go Mitkovic because I see much more value in his offer. I am yet to find a negative diariy from Mitkovic..and there are plenty of diaries overall.
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Seriously, you compare Facebook and Instagra, the very definition of place where people show off , with that forum, where people want to be as anonymous and as under the radar as possible :D :D That is your comparison ?
Seriously yes. Consider someone paying for LL making all the sacrifices that go along with it and then sharing with everyone how badly it went. If you think that would be standard for someone you don't understand human psychology.
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tbike,
what is my assumption??? please point out my baseless assumption.. I didn't even assert anything..
Please point it out directly from my post.
thatdude, I tend to agree with you.. Certainly though, we can't conclude that people disappear because everything is great... we just don't know...
all we have are diaries... and a large number don't turn out great...
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There are 2 kind of people on this forum
1) The optimistic people (like moi) who believe that by going to the top doctor you can minimize the risks and not get out of it half crippled. We do it because we want to do LL and dont want to keep fighting against our own minds when it comes to the height neurosis
2) The passimistic folks who are in a war between themselves and their mind. Their mind want to do this surgery but they do not want to go through it, seeing only the negative and trying their best to persuade themselves (Or to be more specific, their mind) that it's not worth the risk
No group is better than the other but I dont believe it's fair to try to persuade other people away from this surgery (and the good docs) for your own will in the end to persuade yourselves
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tbike,
what is my assumption??? please point out my baseless assumption.. I didn't even assert anything..
Please point it out directly from my post.
thatdude, I tend to agree with you.. Certainly though, we can't conclude that people disappear because everything is great... we just don't know...
all we have are diaries... and a large number don't turn out great...
Your assumption is that the vast majority of people who undergo LL end up bad. We dont know that
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thatdude makes a good point about being hopeful during the recovery process... I can confirm this
Patients might have complications, but since recovery is not complete, and they seem to be getting better, they assume that the final outcome will be positive, and post how great things are going
it's only after 2 or 3 years, when you still have lingering issues, and you finally realize things aren't going to end up as imagined... then awareness sets in and you finally start to accept the ty reality of the whole ordeal
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tbike... I said diaries.,... since that's all we have to go on
and that's true... most diaries don't end up that positive.... even the so called great outcomes are full of guys at 70 or 80%...
guys that can't run, etc
all we have are diaries, like it or not
Let's see these videos of patients running effortlessly, etc after lengthening 7 cm
I see swden, who admits he's nowhere near what he was
we see rgkey... who can't do 1 full squat with 90 lbs on his back, yet he says he's doing great
that's the thing... we have evidence of patients that say they're great yet are not really functional
that should be a red flag
look at rgkey's squat video, and tell me if that's acceptable to you as a young man..
if it is, then maybe this surgery is right for you.... it's not acceptable to me, and I think to the vast majority of readers
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tbike... I said diaries.,... since that's all we have to go on
and that's true... most diaries don't end up that positive.... even the so called great outcomes are full of guys at 70 or 80%...
guys that can't run, etc
all we have are diaries, like it or not
Let's see these videos of patients running effortlessly, etc after lengthening 7 cm
I see swden, who admits he's nowhere near what he was
we see rgkey... who can't do 1 full squat with 90 lbs on his back, yet he says he's doing great
that's the thing... we have evidence that patients that say they're great are not really functional
that should be a red flag
look at rgkey's squat video, and tell me if that's acceptable to you as a young man..
if it is, then maybe this surgery is right for you.... it's not acceptable to me, and I think to the vast majority of readers
I just saw the squat video and I am indeed in a complete shock... SMITH MACHINE!!!! LIKE REALLY?!?!?! WHAT ARE YOU A 10 YEARS OLD GIRL OR SOMETHING?!
And on the serious note, his photo post removal was great... He didnt listen to the doc and he lengthened 9 cm.. Another thing on the squat vid, his legs are super thin.. He might also be a half squatter like 90% of gym goers
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tbike.:)
I don't mean to pick on rgkey either... but people were saying how great he looks, etc
The guy does not do 1 squat with like 90 lbs... not even close.... and he looks like he's in pain doing it
there are half squatters, but that's a very light weight... and he looks like he's in serious pain... not normal for such a young man
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tbike.:)
I don't mean to pick on rgkey either... but people were saying how great he looks, etc
The guy does not do 1 squat with like 90 lbs... not even close.... and he looks like he's in pain doing it
there are half squatters, but that's a very light weight... and he looks like he's in serious pain... not normal for such a young man
About pain we can't know. I can tell you that in my gym I see young people struggeling with 40kgs on the smith machine while I watch them from aside with my awsome 130kg squats
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thatdude makes a good point about being hopeful during the recovery process... I can confirm this
Patients might have complications, but since recovery is not complete, and they seem to be getting better, they assume that the final outcome will be positive, and post how great things are going
it's only after 2 or 3 years, when you still have lingering issues, and you finally realize things aren't going to end up as imagined... then awareness sets in and you finally start to accept the crapty reality of the whole ordeal
You may be right. You make a very valid point.
I'm still very hopeful because Dr. G told me from day one that full recovery (including soft tissue flexibility) can take several years. And my only real issues are soft tissue tightness (which has been improving) and the left screw issue (which will go away once it's taken out or adjusted). I can run, but it's a bit funny due to hip flexor/quad tightness, but my legs feel more than strong enough.
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I am challanging anybody to give link to a diary from Mitkovic or Guichet (excluding that crazy asian dude who did 10cm) who reported problems aftewards.
I am yet to find a negative diariy from Mitkovic..and there are plenty of diaries overall.
Do you consider this acceptable?:
http://imgur.com/pqSwjPB
Monorail without internal nail is a misalignment waiting to happen.
I think that for proportion purposes lengthening tibias is MUCH better. The average person has no clue that the femurs are supposed to be onger so he will notice 2 bones that are similar and will not think anything is wrong :)
The average person doesn't give a crap about tibia height. No one outside this forum is judging height basing on tibia/femur relation. For the 99,99% of the world's population a 175cm guy with 36cm tibias and 45cm femurs looks EXACTLY as tall as a 175cm guy with 39cm tibias and 42cm femurs.
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hey yellow,
it definitely takes a few years... I don't positive info too much, but I do notice now I seem to be walking quite a bit better, at least when doing short walks out of the cab,and around the store... I think there's a psychological aspect to it... I might post a video soon... so people can see...
I seem to even walk at a decent speed.....
soft tissue recovery for 7 cm definitely takes years
that's the part I was not prepared for... these dreams of hoping for a full recovery in 8 to 12 months are not realistic
I'm at like 17 0r 18 months... and achilles surgery only 14 or 15 months ago...
I should probably be more optimistic... but I want 95% recovery....
Members need to understand that being even 10% less than before is noticeable
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hey yellow,
it definitely takes a few years... I don't positive info too much, but I do notice now I seem to be walking quite a bit better, at least when doing short walks out of the cab,and around the store... I think there's a psychological aspect to it... I might post a video soon... so people can see...
I seem to even walk at a decent speed.....
soft tissue recovery for 7 cm definitely takes years
that's the part I was not prepared for... these dreams of hoping for a full recovery in 8 to 12 months are not realistic
I'm at like 17 0r 18 months... and achilles surgery only 14 or 15 months ago...
I should probably be more optimistic... but I want 95% recovery....
Members need to understand that being even 10% less than before is noticeable
Yes. 100% this. I was expecting to be like 95% right now (just over a year after I stopped clicking). For the most part, I'm fine, but I'm really more like 70%-75% if I'm being super conservative and counting full athletic ability (I was never really an athlete, though I've always ran, swam and skied well).
Recoveries like ShyShy, I'll say again, are not the norm. I think I would have done better and be closer to him had it not been for my left screw issue and having to work right after clicking (and having no real breather to focus solely on walking normally after lengthening), but that wasn't the case, but I'm doing well now.
You will get there. This whole process just takes so much more time and is so much more demanding (physically, mentally, time wise, etc.) than people realize.
This surgery is not worth it if you are at least 5'9/5'10 to start with. I don't care where you live or how tall your siblings are...the world does NOT see you short at that height, it's all in your head! I understand part of the allure (at those starting heights) is that those guys can just do one surgery and get to the magical land of 6ft plus that makes all women cream their panties, but really, it's pretty rare for a woman to reject a guy solely based on his height starting 5'8" and up (and yes, I recognize the irony of what I'm saying given that I really want more LL for another inch, I just think 5'8" is a borderline height at the absolute best).
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with my awsome 130kg squats
must be sarcasm?
yellow + crimson, I hope that you guys do keep getting better as time goes on.
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hi yellowspike, i think you should be very happy with 5,8 height.
That is 1.72, and with insole is a very good height. You will lose more athlety capability if you lengthen your tibias.
you should think that you lucky for that height and you don,t think in the person taller than you and yes in lot of persons and all womans are shorter than you.
good luck,cheers paco.
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Microman has left the forum because he wants to move on with his life and doesn't want leg lengthening and height to become an addiction of his. Hopefully he'll return at some point to state how his recovery is coming along, but who knows.
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agree with yellow
ty thatdude
paco, you mean tibias in general? or just the fact that yellow has already lengthened 7 cm?
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must be sarcasm?
yellow + crimson, I hope that you guys do keep getting better as time goes on.
Thanks. I'm not doing badly, but not 100% yet. I will get there!
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all we have are diaries... and a large number don't turn out great...
Not sure if they don't turn out great, but many of them are left undocumented which is a pity. So then, what is the purpose of the forum if we cannot get a proper feedback from someone who did the surgery? I would really love to see all the diaries continued so that we can know all the aspects of the procedure and maybe advise the guys. Some advice given on this forum are to be taken into account event though they are not from qualified doctors.
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The bagirov patient just came back 2 years later and said he is fine. I believe that's to be the case with most external tibias (After doing alot of research and seeing all the videos of rozbruch and paley and the other russian doctors and also alex's story of doc.Mon youtube) it is pretty obvious that external tibias with the right doc can get you very good results (unlike the internal femurs which I have yet to see a single good case... Probably because the internal method is pretty new).
My only conclusion is that if you go and lengthen, do external tibias first with a good doc.
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Not sure if they don't turn out great, but many of them are left undocumented which is a pity. So then, what is the purpose of the forum if we cannot get a proper feedback from someone who did the surgery? I would really love to see all the diaries continued so that we can know all the aspects of the procedure and maybe advise the guys. Some advice given on this forum are to be taken into account event though they are not from qualified doctors.
Did you mean to compare internal tibias to external tibias, or external tibias to internal femurs?
Because you can do fine with internal femurs with the right doctor. I just think that internal femurs is harder on your soft tissues because you're stretching larger muscles and also because it involves your hip flexors (which many of us take for granted - I never will again).
I think lengthening tibias is easier on soft tissue, but it sucks that they just take so much longer to consolidate. I know one thing I greatly underestimated was how long it takes the soft tissues to recovery their flexibility. That's what has made my recover (and the stupid left screw issue) not be as great as it could be. I actually feel fine otherwise and my legs feel strong as never.
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tbike... thats your conclusion based on 1 guy with no videos???
I had another patient of Bagirov pm me 2 weeks who still cant walk after 7 or 8 months... he's a member on this forum too
Almost everyone I talk to has tendon issues of some kind... whether it's internal femur or external tibia
keep growing...I can give you advice.... Do not get this procedure... if you do 3 cm, maybe you'll be great, but is it really worth breaking your legs and losing a year of your life for 3 cm??? might as well as wear insoles and shoes with a nice heel
risk vs reward isn't good for this procedure
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yellow... if tibial lengthening is easier on soft tissue... femurs must be a nightmare.... look at me, look at sweden
I hope I can jump again
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tbike... thats your conclusion based on 1 guy with no videos???
I had another patient of Bagirov pm me 2 weeks who still cant walk after 7 or 8 months... he's a member on this forum too
Almost everyone I talk to has tendon issues of some kind... whether it's internal femur or external tibia
keep growing...I can give you advice.... Do not get this procedure... if you do 3 cm, maybe you'll be great, but is it really worth breaking your legs and losing a year of your life for 3 cm??? might as well as wear insoles and shoes with a nice heel
risk vs reward isn't good for this procedure
This patient did the procedure 7-8 months ago? If so, he needs to wait till frame removal. How much did he lengthen? Also recovery takes 1 year+
Also, the bagirov's patient that said he is fine did post a video a while back but deleated it.
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it's still 1 patient
I go by the numbers... it's not impossible to have a good outcome
maybe in the next year I'll improve enough to be considered good by some members, but I still wouldn't recommend this surgery
This surgery has a serious complication rate that is far above almost any other surgical procedure I can think of... and this is an elective surgery for healthy patients
if the serious complication rate was only 30%, that would still be an absurdly high rate for a cosmetic procedure.....
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it's still 1 patient
I go by the numbers... it's not impossible to have a good outcome
maybe in the next year I'll improve enough to be considered good by some members, but I still wouldn't recommend this surgery
This surgery has a serious complication rate that is far above almost any other surgical procedure I can think of... and this is an elective surgery for healthy patients
if the serious complication rate was only 30%, that would still be an absurdly high rate for a cosmetic procedure.....
What do you consider as "serious" complication? Because for example the nerve damage is indeed serious but with a good surgeon is supposed to be extremely low.
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I think people need to make trade offs. U cannot expect to be 100% as athletic as before the surgery. Hell, if u just break ur legs once without lengthening u will not be at 100%. Many great football players decline after routine breakage.
To me, if I am able to walk normally and jog, that is 100% acceptable. I am not the type of person who does ball sports. I go to the gym , but mainly focus on my upper body. You need to be realistic. My grandfather says - you cannot have both - the dck in the pussy and the soul in heaven ;) You need to choose . Its a trade-off like soooo many things in life.
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yellow... if tibial lengthening is easier on soft tissue... femurs must be a nightmare.... look at me, look at sweden
I hope I can jump again
Well it's just a hunch I have, given that femur lengthening not only tightens your quads, but also your hip flexors. Tibias, in a way, are more "local" surgery in that it's just your lower legs. But I could be totally off the mark, I don't know much about tibs.
If I do them, I'm doing a very small amount.
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I think people need to make trade offs. U cannot expect to be 100% as athletic as before the surgery. Hell, if u just break ur legs once without lengthening u will not be at 100%. Many great football players decline after routine breakage.
To me, if I am able to walk normally and jog, that is 100% acceptable. I am not the type of person who does ball sports. I go to the gym , but mainly focus on my upper body. You need to be realistic. My grandfather says - you cannot have both - the dck in the pussy and the soul in heaven ;) You need to choose . Its a trade-off like soooo many things in life.
This is very true. I'm not much of an athlete per se. As long as I can still jog (which I can), weight train at the gym, swim and ski almost as well as prior to LL, I'm happy.
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tbike...
if a normal healthy patient gets this surgery, and comes out at 90%, that to me is serious
you're taking a patient and making him worse off medically than he was, and for cosmetic reasons
that's serious
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tbike...
if a normal healthy patient gets this surgery, and comes out at 90%, that to me is serious
you're taking a patient and making him worse off medically than he was, and for cosmetic reasons
that's serious
What do you consider 90%? I am willing to sacrifice some of my athletic abilities (I can even accept not doing deadlifts and squats with heavy weights). But for me, getting back 100% in terms of non athletic abilities (walking and short running for making it in time for the bus for example) is a must.
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to me, 90% means you never even think of going for a walk, or doing basic things... even jogging...
you don't think to yourself " ok, gotta mentally prepare myself to go for a walk"
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to me, 90% means you never even think of going for a walk, or doing basic things... even jogging...
you don't think to yourself " ok, gotta mentally prepare myself to go for a walk"
I agree with you 100%
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to me, 90% means you never even think of going for a walk, or doing basic things... even jogging...
you don't think to yourself " ok, gotta mentally prepare myself to go for a walk"
The only reason I have to sometimes mentally prepare myself (and crimson, I know exactly what you mean) is because of the stupid mutha f*cking left screw. My jogging aint bad at all...if it's still a bit funny looking, it's due to the fact that my left gluteus medius is still a bit weak (though I've forced myself to push through the pain when weight lifting, and the pain is only there with very specific angles and movements). But walking is effortless now and doesn't really require any mental preparing.
I honestly feel strong enough where I could have been closer to ShyShy had it not been for the left screw. I know I sound like a broken record, but I believe in my heart of hearts that's causing most of my remaining issues.
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I have a screw that's killing me tooo... ugh
If I can get myself to the point where I'm not accepting/declining invitations to go out based on the amount of walking involved, I'll accept that
i think it's gonna take prosthesis on my lower left leg though
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tbike...
if a normal healthy patient gets this surgery, and comes out at 90%, that to me is serious
you're taking a patient and making him worse off medically than he was, and for cosmetic reasons
that's serious
Then wtf did you get this surgery in the first place?
*facepalm*
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Then wtf did you get this surgery in the first place?
*facepalm*
Because being a short man (below 5'9", MAYBE 5'8", although that's really pushing it) royally sucks. And this surgery is the only means to get taller.
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Because being a short man (below 5'9", MAYBE 5'8", although that's really pushing it) royally sucks. And this surgery is the only means to get taller.
I agree. But not if he prefers function over height.
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tiny....
because these boards were not nearly as negative before
being short does suck though...
but these boards used to be pretty positive
not any more....I would not have gotten this surgery if I had saw more diaries like mine
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tiny....
because these boards were not nearly as negative before
being short does suck though...
but these boards used to be pretty positive
not any more....I would not have gotten this surgery if I had saw more diaries like mine
Crimson, I agree with you. I've also noticed that these boards have become highly negative in the past year or so. These boards used to be so positive and gave me so much hope. I have plenty of hope in myself, and I know without a doubt I'm going to be fine in the end.
But these boards have become toxic in some ways. I'd almost suggest that mods somehow organize the board so you can have complete/positive diaries in one area and then all the unfinished/negative ones in another. Or, just find another way to organize all this information better. People should hear the negative stories too. People need to do their homework. I researched this surgery for almost 2 years, so nothing that has happened to me (except...that DAMN LEFT SCREW) has been much of a surprise.
I still would love another inch of height, and I feel very strongly that I'm not going to change my mind on that. HOWEVER - I am approaching it with a level head, trying to accept/enjoy what I've achieved so far, and will be super careful with how I go about getting the inch.
And again, men 5'9" and up (no matter where you live) really don't need this surgery. At those heights, it's just a luxury and (mostly) in their own heads. But, mazeltov to the 5'9" and up guys that get LL!
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hi yellowspike, i think you should be very happy with 5,8 height.
That is 1.72, and with insole is a very good height. You will lose more athlety capability if you lengthen your tibias.
you should think that you lucky for that height and you don,t think in the person taller than you and yes in lot of persons and all womans are shorter than you.
good luck,cheers paco.
Thanks buddy. I'm generally 173 at night (a little above 5'8") unless I've done weight training where I've lifted heavy things that compresses my spine. But even then, I don't seem to ever dip below 5'8" which is nice.
I just want a small amount on my tibias, so I think I'll be ok if I do 3-4cm max. I don't know where you live...but where I live and for what I do, 5'8" is still bad. It's pretty much terrible.
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Thanks buddy. I'm generally 173 at night (a little above 5'8") unless I've done weight training where I've lifted heavy things that compresses my spine. But even then, I don't seem to ever dip below 5'8" which is nice.
I just want a small amount on my tibias, so I think I'll be ok if I do 3-4cm max. I don't know where you live...but where I live and for what I do, 5'8" is still bad. It's pretty much terrible.
Do you really, deep down, believe that 3 or 4cm is going to affect your career in any way?
Whether you think colleagues will treat you differently just because of the height itself, or because the height changes your attitude doesn't matter because both are fantasies imo. You're still gonna be the same, just a tiny bit taller. What happens when you go through all this and realise nothing has changed?
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Do you really, deep down, believe that 3 or 4cm is going to affect your career in any way?
Whether you think colleagues will treat you differently just because of the height itself, or because the height changes your attitude doesn't matter because both are fantasies imo. You're still gonna be the same, just a tiny bit taller. What happens when you go through all this and realise nothing has changed?
I don't believe I'll be treated any differently at all. But I will know the difference, know I can wear whatever shoes I want, no longer need to entertain the idea of lifts (which I refuse to wear, but am tempted to at times)...I will blend in better. I feel like I'm on the cusp of blending in, but don't. I want to be average.
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Thanks buddy. I'm generally 173 at night (a little above 5'8") unless I've done weight training where I've lifted heavy things that compresses my spine. But even then, I don't seem to ever dip below 5'8" which is nice.
I just want a small amount on my tibias, so I think I'll be ok if I do 3-4cm max. I don't know where you live...but where I live and for what I do, 5'8" is still bad. It's pretty much terrible.
you are going to inflict as much pain for 3 cm?
i think you can do 5 cm with a good doctor and no complications
but you choose
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you are going to inflict as much pain for 3 cm?
i think you can do 5 cm with a good doctor and no complications
but you choose
If I had the time, I'd probably do closer to 5cm on tibias. But for time reasons (tibias take so damn long to consolidate), as well as safety, I'll probably do at max 4.
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I have seen Microman online here several times. He was online today as a matter of fact. He is definitely still out out there and alive. I used to speak to him on a regular basis through PM. He was a decent guy and extremely brave to this operation. But either way, I hope he is well and is having a good recovery. I'm sure he'll come back to tell us everything that has happened really soon!
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Would also love to hear how his experience was, since I also consider going to Dr. Mitkovic.
So, Microman, if you are reading, please drop us a few lines... :)
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why no update?His profile says he was online today ???
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Microman I hope to hear from you soon . You had your surgery on the same month as me ,you must be off with your frames by now I guess.
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What happened to microman?? ???
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Last active July, it's weird there is no update
I hope everything is going well
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I dont know what happened with him, but the amount he did with the mitkovic fixator has a big possible problem, missalignament, you cant correct it well with that device , hope he didnt had it and is fine.
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Last I heard from him he was going to India to do femurs
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Last I heard from him he was going to India to do femurs
external or internal ?
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I'm not sure
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I'm not sure
To Parihar? Or he didnt mention the doc