Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: Want More on August 31, 2015, 03:50:31 PM
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Most of member here need CLL to continue life. But some here have height neurosis (like me)
I think that when i reach 185cm(average for Dinaric Alps 185.6 cm) i will not ever worry about height, and i will not compare my height with other people.
So i was wondering does after CLL your height neurosis have gone? Or after CLL you still comparing your height to other people?
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I don't think it'll be gone so easily, but it will hopefully be much easier to accept your own body and its size. I myself am below average and if I do 5CM I will be slightly above average -only that is huge in and of itself.
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Unless you get to average height, no, height neurosis will not be gone. I am still below average, I am still objectively short. And that is just not ok with me.
So, unless you're already a good starting height and can make it to average in one surgery, OR you're prepared (financially, physically, and emotionally) to do two LLs, this surgery will not change the fact that you are still short.
I myself am getting myself ready for round two next year. I am excersing like a mad man and stretching like a ballerina. I will not stop until I am average height.
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5'4.5 to 5'7 was huge for me. Like Yellowspike said, I don't know if my height neurosis would truly go away at 5'7 though since it's still objectively short in the USA, and it's exacerbated by the fact that I'm still the second shortest of my half-siblings, with two sisters being taller than me still. I would consider a femur lengthening, but only if I make a recovery to the point where I'm not limping or still having random pains, and I'm still not there yet.
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The good thing for you Kilo is that you already got the harder one (tibias) done first. If you can afford internal femurs, it will seem like a cakewalk to you. Tibias take an eternity. If it weren't for that, it'd be a no brainer for me to do tibias, but I just don't have the time with my career taking off.
I have to either suck up tibias someday, or just settle for 5'9" for one more inch from femurs. Given my career, I'm heavily considering the latter option. 5'9" is ok, and more safely in the average "zone" even if that too is a bit below average.
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I disagree halfway with YellowSpike. I think everyone has a certain height in their minds that would help relieve 80% of their annoyance at least. 5'5 guys want 5'8 and 5'8 guys want 5'11. The stories they read somehow end up gravitating towards and convincing them that the height they have in mind is right.
People don't seem disappointed after an LL, so I'm guessing they do feel satisfied.
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I disagree halfway with YellowSpike. I think everyone has a certain height in their minds that would help relieve 80% of their annoyance at least. 5'5 guys want 5'8 and 5'8 guys want 5'11. The stories they read somehow end up gravitating towards and convincing them that the height they have in mind is right.
People don't seem disappointed after an LL, so I'm guessing they do feel satisfied.
Before, I just wanted to be a somewhat respectable height. But as someone who is above average in most other facets of my life, being below average height by more than little bit just isn't ok with me. I'm not saying it hasn't been an improvement, it has, but I am still short, and there's no way around that.
The few 5'10" guys on here who want LL are short for their respective countries. But if you can get to average height for your country, chances are, you're going to be fully satisfied. There's a difference between the scenarios of achieving average height (no longer being objective short) versus not (still being objectively short).
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The average male height in India should be about 5'7, but I'd be happy with 5'5.
Note: People insist India's average male height is 5'5, based on a 10 year old survey. Said survey takes into account the 30% Indian population below the poverty line. I'm talking about the kind of people I meet daily, my generation which is well nourished.
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The good thing for you Kilo is that you already got the harder one (tibias) done first. If you can afford internal femurs, it will seem like a cakewalk to you. Tibias take an eternity. If it weren't for that, it'd be a no brainer for me to do tibias, but I just don't have the time with my career taking off.
I have to either suck up tibias someday, or just settle for 5'9" for one more inch from femurs. Given my career, I'm heavily considering the latter option. 5'9" is ok, and more safely in the average "zone" even if that too is a bit below average.
How much time are you able to spend putting your career on hold for recovery? Would an inch or so in your tibiae be too long of a wait period for you even if you were to use the LON method?
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Exactly. Whike back even i argued concerning this topic, indian male teen's average height wud easily be 5'9
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How much time are you able to spend putting your career on hold for recovery? Would an inch or so in your tibiae be too long of a wait period for you even if you were to use the LON method?
I don't know to be honest. I'm about to start a new job, so even next summer, I will only have been there for about a year...so I'd only be able to take a small amount of time off and somehow go to work on crutches. An inch more on femurs would take 2 weeks to click to, and then the wildcard is how long consolidation/recovery takes. But for an inch, shouldn't be long.
Tibias are more ideal for proportions, but they'd still take too long even if I only did an inch. Probaby at least a month to get that inch, and then recovery/consolidation will be long too.
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Exactly. Whike back even i argued concerning this topic, indian male teen's average height wud easily be 5'9
5'7 seems very average, some are 5'7 to 5'10 and the short ones are 5'4 or 5'5. Most guys 17 and up are 5'7+. But 5'9 seems a bit too much for the average.
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I don't know to be honest. I'm about to start a new job, so even next summer, I will only have been there for about a year...so I'd only be able to take a small amount of time off and somehow go to work on crutches. An inch more on femurs would take 2 weeks to click to, and then the wildcard is how long consolidation/recovery takes. But for an inch, shouldn't be long.
Tibias are more ideal for proportions, but they'd still take too long even if I only did an inch. Probaby at least a month to get that inch, and then recovery/consolidation will be long too.
Well whatever route you decide to go, stick around and share it with us. Don't disappear man! :D
Exactly. Whike back even i argued concerning this topic, indian male teen's average height wud easily be 5'9
That's not even close to being true.
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I think that if you are still short , height neurosis will continue but in less grade
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Well whatever route you decide to go, stick around and share it with us. Don't disappear man! :D
Love ya, Kilo :)
I don't know, I might have to disappear for a while. I've been trying to come on here less...but a combination of the fact that this is still (obviously) on my mind and the fact that I don't have many people to talk about this with keeps me coming back. But it's very hard on here seeing others who are like 5'9/5'10 doing LL to over 6ft or guys who are able to get 8cm in one surgery. I'm happy for them...I'm trying to be happy for others who are naturally tall or guys who achieve a good height in one surgery. But it's hard and sometimes makes me feel like I didn't work as hard or like I failed, in a way. It's hard to explain.
Recovery is happening for me, little by little. I'm able to go up and down stairs now without holding onto anything, doing leg workouts, I'm starting to look shredded again, my bubble butt is coming back (one girl who I slept with before and after LL said it's "about 65% back to what it was") lol...
The real sucky part about all this is that, as I attempt to move on in life (dating, career, getting back into kickass shape, etc)...I just know I'm not done here and I have to go through this sh*t again. I don't know if I have it in me to do tibias, which would be ideal. But I need to be at least 5'9"...that's a decent height, and I can lie and say "5'10" when I feel like it and mostly not get caught.
I'm going to be talking to a therapist to help cope until I do a second surgery. I imagine he will tell me to get off this site. It definitely doesn't help.
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It's an important topic this, it would be quite dreadful to through all this pain only to find that nothing has changed. That said I think most people on here are relatively humble in their goals, actually I am probably one of the more greedy ones.
Here's another interesting question: if you had perfect proportions what would be the lowest height you'd be happy at?
My answer would be: 183-185CM as that would be comfortably average in Sweden. If I could grow 5-6CM naturally I'd forget about lengthening (though I admit I'd be tempted to do 3CM and be as tall as my dad).
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Most of member here need CLL to continue life. But some here have height neurosis (like me)
I think that when i reach 185cm(average for Dinaric Alps 185.6 cm) i will not ever worry about height, and i will not compare my height with other people.
So i was wondering does after CLL your height neurosis have gone? Or after CLL you still comparing your height to other people?
to be honest being in serbia sucks for me.. because i feel shorter here at 185 than i use to back home at 181. because everyones so tall.. but it doesnt bother me cause this is only temporary being here. It depends what ur use to.. ill only know for sure once i get back to my hometown if its gone or not.. id say it will as il be 3inches taller than averge.. in serbia im in the 50th percentile at 185 lol.. when i was probably in 70 percentile back home at 181.. id say if ur use to being below average where u live and will become average than it will go.. but i cant say for sure..
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Are the serbians really that tall?
If so that's even worse than Sweden.
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It's an important topic this, it would be quite dreadful to through all this pain only to find that nothing has changed. That said I think most people on here are relatively humble in their goals, actually I am probably one of the more greedy ones.
Here's another interesting question: if you had perfect proportions what would be the lowest height you'd be happy at?
My answer would be: 183-185CM as that would be comfortably average in Sweden. If I could grow 5-6CM naturally I'd forget about lengthening (though I admit I'd be tempted to do 3CM and be as tall as my dad).
And i feel like that I am probably one of the more greedy ones. I want to improve myself in every way,not just height. I am really good student,in high school was capitan of fotball and basketball team(even with this height),earning my own money,didn't have problem with girls,i have nice face,good body.But simply i was always obsessed with my height,that is only thing that really missing me.
I will not have problem with proportion becuse my wingspan is 189,i didn't mesure tibia and femur but my legs looking really short compared to upper body.I am about 180cm(181 morning) and i think that i will be happy with 185cm.
to be honest being in serbia sucks for me.. because i feel shorter here at 185 than i use to back home at 181. because everyones so tall.. but it doesnt bother me cause this is only temporary being here. It depends what ur use to.. ill only know for sure once i get back to my hometown if its gone or not.. id say it will as il be 3inches taller than averge.. in serbia im in the 50th percentile at 185 lol.. when i was probably in 70 percentile back home at 181.. id say if ur use to being below average where u live and will become average than it will go.. but i cant say for sure..
Yes,it's realy being sucks live there,when i come in nightclub i feel like shortest guy,i think that even 70% girls in high heels are taller than me.
Also it's sucks to live here becuse average salary here is about 400e,and it's almost impossible to save 10000-15000e for surgery.
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Are the serbians really that tall?
If so that's even worse than Sweden.
Serbian's are very tall,with this height i am one of the shortest guy on college,i was the shortest in my class. Average height
people from Dinaric Alps is 185,6 cm on wikipedia,but i think it's about 186-187(my opinion).
Which is average height in Sweden?
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Serbian's are very tall,with this height i am one of the shortest guy on college,i was the shortest in my class. Average height
people from Dinaric Alps is 185,6 cm on wikipedia,but i think it's about 186-187(my opinion).
Which is average height in Sweden?
181 cm but yeah it feels like it's 184-185 way too often.
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181 cm but yeah it feels like it's 184-185 way too often.
Right now i don't have enough money,i will need about year to saved enoguh to have surgery with Mitkovic,so i scared that could lose so much money,waste almost whole year in bed,give up many things(vacation,new computer,don't go on party) and than after that everything stayes the same.
So today i take some old air max,that increase my height for about 3 cm,with them i feel much better,that is about 1.5more than average trainers,so for sure that increasing of 5cm will be good improvement.
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400 euros per year ?if I were you I would give up
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If you're educated you can get a great salary in Switzerland, Belgium or even Scandinavia.
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400 euros per year ?if I were you I would give up
Sorry,i mean 400e per month.
If you're educated you can get a great salary in Switzerland, Belgium or even Scandinavia.
Right now i am student,need 3 year to finish.
But also dr Mitkovic will retire for 3 years,so i must do it in next two years,bit i hope it will do it next. :D
It's not just about money,i will also need to spent 2 years (1 for money,1 for recovery)
So i hope that some LL veteran can say me does his life improve after LL?
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If you really want to do this try to move to another country, the wages in Swizerland are incredible, but the rest of europe should be fine as well.
Once you have a job in a western country, even internals shoudln't be a huge problem in terms of money I think.
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Also Norway has crazy high wages, get a job at an oil platform. Though right now there isn't much demand for workers I'm afraid.
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They're always hiring on fish processors in Alaska. Most places start at $8.75 Alaska minimum wage but once you hit 40 hrs you work overtime and get a little over $13 USD hourly. If you work offshore your food and room is free, and you work 16 hrs per day 7 days a week as long as fish are coming in, so you hit overtime on your 3rd day of the week in most cases. You could save a pretty penny if you work hard for a few seasons. I was able to pay off hefty credit card bills doing it.
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They're always hiring on fish processors in Alaska. Most places start at $8.75 Alaska minimum wage but once you hit 40 hrs you work overtime and get a little over $13 USD hourly. If you work offshore your food and room is free, and you work 16 hrs per day 7 days a week as long as fish are coming in, so you hit overtime on your 3rd day of the week in most cases. You could save a pretty penny if you work hard for a few seasons. I was able to pay off hefty credit card bills doing it.
Working fish processors is rough. I worked on fishing boats in AK, WA, and CA. Also rough work but better money.
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Sorry,i mean 400e per month.Right now i am student,need 3 year to finish.
But also dr Mitkovic will retire for 3 years,so i must do it in next two years,bit i hope it will do it next. :D
It's not just about money,i will also need to spent 2 years (1 for money,1 for recovery)
So i hope that some LL veteran can say me does his life improve after LL?
as soon as i leave serbia and travel a bit i can tell u how big of an affect it has on me.. we are vertually the same starting height so it wll be like u kinda looking into the future..
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price wise how do the serbian locals afford LL with mitkovic, as said above monthly wages in these countries is like 400e a month.
according to stats the minimum wage in serbia is 150e a month, so say you made 200e a month, surely paying 10,000e for the operation would be on par with paleys prices if you were in the US.
i guess this is a general question for all these countries like india , russia etc. i take it the operatoin is just very expensive to them as it is to us if we payed in a 1st world country.
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They're always hiring on fish processors in Alaska. Most places start at $8.75 Alaska minimum wage but once you hit 40 hrs you work overtime and get a little over $13 USD hourly. If you work offshore your food and room is free, and you work 16 hrs per day 7 days a week as long as fish are coming in, so you hit overtime on your 3rd day of the week in most cases. You could save a pretty penny if you work hard for a few seasons. I was able to pay off hefty credit card bills doing it.
Also Norway has crazy high wages, get a job at an oil platform. Though right now there isn't much demand for workers I'm afraid.
If you really want to do this try to move to another country, the wages in Swizerland are incredible, but the rest of europeWorking fish processors is rough. I worked on fishing boats in AK, WA, and CA. Also rough work but better money.
Once you have a job in a western country, even internals shoudln't be a huge problem in terms of money I think.
Thank you guys for your advice,i have plan to go with student organization in april and back after 4 months to USA,becuse it's realy hard to go anywhere with Serbian passport.So i am not sure that i will get USA visa,but hope i will. :)
Anyway can we back to topic?
Does your height neurosis gone after LL? Any veterans?
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Once you have a job in a western country, even internals shoudln't be a huge problem in terms of money I think.
Thank you guys for your advice,i have plan to go with student organization in april and back after 4 months to USA,becuse it's realy hard to go anywhere with Serbian passport.So i am not sure that i will get USA visa,but hope i will. :)
Anyway can we back to topic?
Does your height neurosis gone after LL? Any veterans?
I was 164 cm, now I am 172 cm. I still compare my height with others and still put in some insoles (less than before). Not much has changed. The only thing that changed is that I feel a little better around people because I am not that short anymore. Nothing changed the way people treat me. Not more interest from girls.
And I still want to be taller...
That is why I dont understand people who want to do 5 or 6 cm. Nothing will change for them in my opinion. Not even for me and I did 8 cm. At least that is my experience.
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how strange, i wore lifts to 170 before and was totally happy with my height.
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I was 164 cm, now I am 172 cm. I still compare my height with others and still put in some insoles (less than before). Not much has changed. The only thing that changed is that I feel a little better around people because I am not that short anymore. Nothing changed the way people treat me. Not more interest from girls.
And I still want to be taller...
That is why I dont understand people who want to do 5 or 6 cm. Nothing will change for them in my opinion. Not even for me and I did 8 cm. At least that is my experience.
People want to do less because of bio-mechanics, proportions etc. Proportions is not just about looks but how your body functions e.g femurs that are too long put a person at higher risk of arthritis. It's also how you compare to those naturally your height, say you are now 172 cm tall after LL but your knees are now as high as a guy who is naturally 180 cm for example. This disproportion is more unattractive than a guy who is shorter than average as he looks weird.
I remember a quote about LL saying how it's like a weapon that when used well it is invaluable but when used incorrectly has devastating long term consequences as we can't go back and do less once consolidated.
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In my opinion, 50% of problems with height are real, 50% psychological. After a single surgery, a person could gain from 5 to 8 cm, which is not a lot, but these extra cms will give to that person the boost to overcome his problems (both real and psychological). Obviously, if a man is 160-165 cm he's really short, but I wrote in another post: if you feel short, you'll be short FOREVER, even if you are 190 cm tall!
For me, +8 cm means to become 173-174 cm tall... and that will be absolutely enough for me at the moment: at this height a man is not short and, if he wants to look taller, he can use small lifts in particular events (a night in a club, a marriage, job interview, ecc...) :)
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There is no difference between 164 and 172 cm because you just go from very short to solid short, you re still short
Someone who is 183 cm and gain 5 cm will move from strong average to tall, the benefits are more noticeable
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People want to do less because of bio-mechanics, proportions etc. Proportions is not just about looks but how your body functions e.g femurs that are too long put a person at higher risk of arthritis. It's also how you compare to those naturally your height, say you are now 172 cm tall after LL but your knees are now as high as a guy who is naturally 180 cm for example. This disproportion is more unattractive than a guy who is shorter than average as he looks weird.
I remember a quote about LL saying how it's like a weapon that when used well it is invaluable but when used incorrectly has devastating long term consequences as we can't go back and do less once consolidated.
I dont have any bio-mechanics problem nor any proportions problem. And not an arthritis problem...
You say a disproportionate person is unattractive but I think as long as it is not extreme no one will notice.
But I tell you what is definitely unattractive: Being short.
People here on this forum always talk about how it is not possible to go back and do less.
But I would like to go back and do more :)
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There is no difference between 164 and 172 cm because you just go from very short to solid short, you re still short
Someone who is 183 cm and gain 5 cm will move from strong average to tall, the benefits are more noticeable
Yes that could be true. Any veteran here who could tell us more about that?
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how strange, i wore lifts to 170 before and was totally happy with my height.
Good for you! But I would never feel really happy with my height unless I have really good height.
Of course I feel better with 172 cm. But lets be honest. It is still short.
With 180 cm I could say I am happy with my height :)
With shoes that would be 6 feet. That is a good height!
Good for your career, good for girls, good for everything :)
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180cm now and 5cm more willl make me 185cm,with that i will be average in my country.And for sure i will not feel like shortest guy at night club and other similar event,becuse for sure always will be guy shorter than me. And when i see girl 187(with heels)that will not be so bad becuse she will be only 2cm higher than me,and i will not feel so much short. That is my opinion.
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Good for you! But I would never feel really happy with my height unless I have really good height.
Of course I feel better with 172 cm. But lets be honest. It is still short.
you are entitled to your opinion but 172/5 8 is the 25th percentile. so are you saying that if you are a room with 20 men that 5 of them are short (which seems too high a number to me), and you also saying that 1 in 4 men are short, if so then by that definition a lot of men are short, 170 seems perfectly fine to me, never been 172 myself yet but after my op i can wear lifts to that height to see what it's like.
i defenetily felt 10x more normal when i wore 4cm lifts to go from 165 to 169, beyond that not sure how much i cared about being taller, not a whole lot but would like a couple more cms
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With 180 cm I could say I am happy with my height :)
With shoes that would be 6 feet. That is a good height!
Good for your career, good for girls, good for everything :)
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Why you think that your carer will be better if you are taller? unless you are basketball or volleyball player?
Nicolas Sarkozy,Vladimir Putin,Tom Cruise,Kevin Hart,Bernie Ecclestone,they are all short,look Nick Vujacic.
Then you will realise that for good career you don't need height,just need good brain :D
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Good for you! But I would never feel really happy with my height unless I have really good height.
Of course I feel better with 172 cm. But lets be honest. It is still short.
With 180 cm I could say I am happy with my height :)
With shoes that would be 6 feet. That is a good height!
Good for your career, good for girls, good for everything :)
Why you think that your carer will be better if you are taller? unless you are basketball or volleyball player?
Nicolas Sarkozy,Vladimir Putin,Tom Cruise,Kevin Hart,Bernie Ecclestone,they are all short,look Nick Vujacic.
Then you will realise that for good career you don't need height,just need good brain :D
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There is no difference between 164 and 172 cm because you just go from very short to solid short, you re still short
Someone who is 183 cm and gain 5 cm will move from strong average to tall, the benefits are more noticeable
In a sense I agree because the closer you are to average the more men you will "pass" by lengthening. Say a majority of average men a clumped around 180 then going from 177 to 183 would have you pass more men than going from 167-173 even though you'd be moving up the percentiles faste in the latter case.
Still I think it'll have a larger real life impact to go from short to "below average", men between 175-185 are all over the place but short men stand out.
Also to be "tall" you will have to clear that clump around the average, in a country where the average is 180, 185+ would be the bare minimum to be considered tall but after that the number of men your height will shrink quickly.
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to be honest being in serbia sucks for me.. because i feel shorter here at 185 than i use to back home at 181. because everyones so tall.. but it doesnt bother me cause this is only temporary being here. It depends what ur use to.. ill only know for sure once i get back to my hometown if its gone or not.. id say it will as il be 3inches taller than averge.. in serbia im in the 50th percentile at 185 lol.. when i was probably in 70 percentile back home at 181.. id say if ur use to being below average where u live and will become average than it will go.. but i cant say for sure..
If you were Serbian with 185cm,would you consider second surgery?
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In a sense I agree because the closer you are to average the more men you will "pass" by lengthening. Say a majority of average men a clumped around 180 then going from 177 to 183 would have you pass more men than going from 167-173 even though you'd be moving up the percentiles faste in the latter case.
Still I think it'll have a larger real life impact to go from short to "below average", men between 175-185 are all over the place but short men stand out.
Also to be "tall" you will have to clear that clump around the average, in a country where the average is 180, 185+ would be the bare minimum to be considered tall but after that the number of men your height will shrink quickly.
i think u have to be 3 inches above the average of ur country to feel and look noticeably tall to be honest..otherwise ull just look kinda average.. im dead on average in serbia i feel..it kinda feels like ive spent 6 months of my life and have lost an inch and half of height lol..ill be 3 inches above average in my country.. which is 3 inches lower than the average height here in serbia. depends what ur expectations are aswell.. if u come into this expecting to feel tall afterwards, which is my case, than unless u r well clear of the average in the area u r located u will be dissapointed.. im sure if i lived my life in serbia at my original height i would have felt short, and now id be happy with feeling average..which would be 'want more's' case... it all depends on ur life experience, and also what ur expectations are afterwards.. But i believe for 'want more' that if he wants to feel average afterwards in his country, than he will definitely achieve that getting to 185..
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If you were Serbian with 185cm,would you consider second surgery?
if i had to live here for the rest of my life and could never go anywhere else.. than yeah if i had the money and the time, id probably do it..cause i just feel way to average here.. and it would have defeated the purpose of doing the originaly surgery.. but remember u being 5'11 in serbia would be like me being 5'8 5'9 from where im from..so if what u want is to feel average.. than ull be satisfied..
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Why you think that your carer will be better if you are taller? unless you are basketball or volleyball player?
Nicolas Sarkozy,Vladimir Putin,Tom Cruise,Kevin Hart,Bernie Ecclestone,they are all short,look Nick Vujacic.
Then you will realise that for good career you don't need height,just need good brain :D
It is senseless to mention examples of people who are short and successful. It is like saying you can be a bad player and still win the world cup. Of course not all the winners of the world cup are exceptional players. Or it is like mentioning 3 guys who are shorter than their beautiful girlfriends and say: You dont need to be tall to get a good girlfriend. Of course there are exceptions. There will always be exceptions. But if you think all the CEOs in the world got in their position because of their brain then you are very naive.
There are studies that the taller you are the more you earn. Unfortunately that is a fact. Yes there are exceptions of course and yes you can have a good career without being tall but it is highly more likely if you are tall. Fact.
Just look at the average height of CEOs and dont tell me it is a coincidence that most of them are tall.
Or look at where you work. Is your boss really the guy who is the smartest of all the workers? There you have your answer.
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I dont have any bio-mechanics problem nor any proportions problem. And not an arthritis problem...
You say a disproportionate person is unattractive but I think as long as it is not extreme no one will notice.
But I tell you what is definitely unattractive: Being short.
People here on this forum always talk about how it is not possible to go back and do less.
But I would like to go back and do more :)
Every person on these forums who do big lengthening always believe they are the exception to the rule. What is your sitting knee height after doing 8cm on tibia? My point is compared to a guy who is naturally 172cm you are proportionally smaller in all your other bones and body parts even more so compared to the 180cm guy. Being short is unattractive but having that body on stilts look is even worse. There is no way I'd view some awkward looking taller guy as being more dominant than a guy who is shorter than him.
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Every person on these forums who do big lengthening always believe they are the exception to the rule. What is your sitting knee height after doing 8cm on tibia? My point is compared to a guy who is naturally 172cm you are proportionally smaller in all your other bones and body parts even more so compared to the 180cm guy. Being short is unattractive but having that body on stilts look is even worse. There is no way I'd view some awkward looking taller guy as being more dominant than a guy who is shorter than him.
Of course my knee height is more compared to a guy who is 172 cm! This is just logical :) The point is: No one in the real world notices! But people notice my height. That is for sure. If any veteran on this forum got rejected from a girl or did not get a job or a promotion because of his knee height/weird proportions then I will say you are right! I highly doubt that something like this ever occured. But ask how many people got bad comments about their height or did not get a girl because of his height.
My point is: As long as you dont overdo it no one ever notices your proportions. Height wins over proportions as long as you dont overdo it.
There are some people with naturally weird proportions but NO ONE ever noticed that outside of this forum.
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Of course my knee height is more compared to a guy who is 172 cm! This is just logical :) The point is: No one in the real world notices! But people notice my height.
They do notice they just don't mention it, just like you don't tell a person who is kind of ugly that "hey, you got a weird face, your proportions are all off". Sure they won't deduce that you've had surgery done and they might very well view you as normal but you won't look as good as someone who naturally grew to your new height.
If your face became slightly more assymetrical right now would peaople call you out on it? No, but they would notice, if only subconsciously.
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They do notice they just don't mention it, just like you don't tell a person who is kind of ugly that "hey, you got a weird face, your proportions are all off". Sure they won't deduce that you've had surgery done and they might very well view you as normal but you won't look as good as someone who naturally grew to your new height.
If your face became slightly more assymetrical right now would peaople call you out on it? No, but they would notice, if only subconsciously.
^This^
Once again it's only on LL forums that people think that the rest of the world is oblivious to the fact they look different to a person naturally their post LL height. Women in particular notice these things and if they think people aren't noticing it's delusional. The people who have naturally weird proportions may have really long arms for example. LL patients tend to have bodies in a category all their own. I've seen patients go from 165cm to 180cm and that type of body simply doesn't happen in nature.
The trade off with LL is looking more like a person who is naturally taller but gaining less height or gaining more height but looking further from what is a normal human body.
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They do notice they just don't mention it, just like you don't tell a person who is kind of ugly that "hey, you got a weird face, your proportions are all off". Sure they won't deduce that you've had surgery done and they might very well view you as normal but you won't look as good as someone who naturally grew to your new height.
If your face became slightly more assymetrical right now would peaople call you out on it? No, but they would notice, if only subconsciously.
You are right I would not say anything. But if you ask someone you trust they would tell me.
How often did you look at someone who had LL and thought he looks as if he never has done LL? I do, very often! What I want to say is if you do not even see that someone had LL how could other people? Most people I saw after LL look pretty normal to me.
So you say they do notice. I say they dont. That is why I asked people who know about the surgery and would tell me if the proportions were off. They say it looks pretty normal to them. Do all of them lie? I say they dont notice. Most of it happens in YOUR head.
Before you knew about this operation and site, how often did you see someone and thought: He has strange proportions?
I never have. Not a single time.
People just dont pay attention that closely to these things.
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^This^
Once again it's only on LL forums that people think that the rest of the world is oblivious to the fact they look different to a person naturally their post LL height. Women in particular notice these things and if they think people aren't noticing it's delusional. The people who have naturally weird proportions may have really long arms for example. LL patients tend to have bodies in a category all their own. I've seen patients go from 165cm to 180cm and that type of body simply doesn't happen in nature.
The trade off with LL is looking more like a person who is naturally taller but gaining less height or gaining more height but looking further from what is a normal human body.
I can only repeat: Normal people dont notice and even if they do you would not see you any different.
I have a friend who I know for a long time. Since I knew about this site and read about proportions I noticed that he has pretty long arms. He is 186 cm and has very very long arms in my opinion. I never noticed that before. It is because I never paid attention to it. It is not delusional. How do you know people notice? Tell me one example how you know.
It is true that we are trading off. I gained 8 cm and my knee height is unusually high. But that is a trade off I love to do for more height :)
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I can only repeat: Normal people dont notice and even if they do you would not see you any different.
I have a friend who I know for a long time. Since I knew about this site and read about proportions I noticed that he has pretty long arms. He is 186 cm and has very very long arms in my opinion. I never noticed that before. It is because I never paid attention to it. It is not delusional. How do you know people notice? Tell me one example how you know.
It is true that we are trading off. I gained 8 cm and my knee height is unusually high. But that is a trade off I love to do for more height :)
No one except us(LL forum) will not care about proportion. But i think it is better to be average height for your region and 15cm shorter armspan than be 15cm under average with great proportion. :)
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After a certain point of lengthening your proportions become noticeable.
As in I'm 5'2, have kinda short legs. I'll look fine lengthening to 5'5, but 5'8? Come on, I'm not that naive.. I'd look like a dwarf on stilts lol. After 5'5 my proportions start going downhill. Be honest and find the right mark for yourself.
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After a certain point of lengthening your proportions become noticeable.
As in I'm 5'2, have kinda short legs. I'll look fine lengthening to 5'5, but 5'8? Come on, I'm not that naive.. I'd look like a dwarf on stilts lol. After 5'5 my proportions start going downhill. Be honest and find the right mark for yourself.
No man,don't have problem with proportion becuse my armspan is 9cm longer than my height,and have short legs. :D
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No man,don't have problem with proportion becuse my armspan is 9cm longer than my height,and have short legs. :D
Lucky you. Everyone has a mark beyond which they look weird though.
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I think the mindset of the height neurosis lives on even after LL. I'm still comparing myself to other peoples' heights and still jealous of or even intimidated by taller people. However, it's gotten much better because there are fewer people taller than me now. I'm not always the shortest person around anymore.
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If you live in USA,that mean that you are average?
Does your life improve,mean dating with girls and other thing?
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I think the mindset of the height neurosis lives on even after LL. I'm still comparing myself to other peoples' heights and still jealous of or even intimidated by taller people. However, it's gotten much better because there are fewer people taller than me now. I'm not always the shortest person around anymore.
You need to reach a height that you are comfortable with, if I were 185CM it wouldn't bother me if some people were taller because I'd know that my height isn't objectively short. Height in a social setting and in life is about meeting a threshold -after that returns diminish rapidly. I would say that threshold is usually slightly above average like 3-4CM or so.
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I think if you're of the mindset that you just don't want to be considered short anymore, then getting to a statistically average height will be just fine and even though you won't ever be considered tall, just no longer being known as the short guy will get rid of that neurosis.
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I think if you're of the mindset that you just don't want to be considered short anymore, then getting to a statistically average height will be just fine and even though you won't ever be considered tall, just no longer being known as the short guy will get rid of that neurosis.
That's pretty much my view. If I got to 172/173 range I'm pretty sure I'd be as happy as a pig in muck.
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if you're of the mindset that you just don't want to be considered short anymore, then getting to a statistically average height will be just fine.
well personally i think its incorrect to call 5 8 and 5 9 short where the average is 5 10, since its more below average than anything, its like if i was 5 11 and called myself tall, i woudn't because its not true.
also a 5 8 male can call a 5 5 male 'little man', but no one would call a 5 8 male 'little man' like ever, there is a clear cut off somewhere.
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Like MDoW said, with people like us (especially those who have actually done LL already)...we think about height a LOT more than the average guy. So we naturally compare ourselves more to other guys. 5'8" is a huge improvement over 5'5", but mainly against girls. Dating wasn't a huge problem before, and now it's no sweat at all (I claim 5'9" and get plenty of interest from very attractive women online). I personally prefer to date women 5'2-5'5"...shorter than 5'2" and my kids are guaranteed to be super short, and no taller than 5'5" (preferable, but not a requirement) because I feel I'm a more decent height. My current FWB is 5'6", and she says she thinks I'm average.
The problem I am facing now is that I still don't FEEL average (because I'm not!). in NYC, there are a lot of tall men. I think at 5'10" I'd be entirely satisfied (can't get beyond that due to proportions)...but due to time constraints, I'll probably settle for 5'9" from another inch in femurs next year. I feel sometimes like I JUST missed average, and 5'9" is basically average, if not just a tad under.
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Pics of some of these women yellowspike?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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The problem I am facing now is that I still don't FEEL average (because I'm not!). in NYC, there are a lot of tall men. I think at 5'10" I'd be entirely satisfied (can't get beyond that due to proportions)...but due to time constraints, I'll probably settle for 5'9" from another inch in femurs next year. I feel sometimes like I JUST missed average, and 5'9" is basically average, if not just a tad under.
I know what you mean about NYC. I swear, the average height is 5' 11" near where I work.
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Pics of some of these women yellowspike?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Tinder was kind to me today. I have a 5'6" hot blonde coming by to bang Friday night.
When we were texting, she asked how tall I was. I said 5'9". She said height isn't that important to her, as long as over 5'7". After that, the convo got super sexual...
LOL thank you LL!
I know what you mean about NYC. I swear, the average height is 5' 11" near where I work.
Yeah. I think it's more like 6ft. 5'8" isn't God awful, but no ideal in NYC. That's why I feel pressured to say 5'9" on all these dating sites...I feel like 5'9'/5'10 is usually the cutoff (though 5'8 cuts it for a good amount of women too).
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To answer op , height neurosis will gone provided that you reach 185 cm.
At 185 cm you are 5 cm above the white you men average, I think that s enough not to focus on other s height , since you will feel comfortably dominant
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To answer op , height neurosis will gone provided that you reach 185 cm.
At 185 cm you are 5 cm above the white you men average, I think that s enough not to focus on other s height , since you will feel comfortably dominant
I agree with you,becuse i have some friends who are about 185 and i notice that they compare their height with others.
And i am 100% sure that if i can reach 189cm that i will never think about height,but with 185 i am not sure :)
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To answer op , height neurosis will gone provided that you reach 185 cm.
At 185 cm you are 5 cm above the white you men average, I think that s enough not to focus on other s height , since you will feel comfortably dominant
Yeah I agree, I have never seen a 185CM man look short. So if your goal is to never be short you'd be safe at that height.
OP lives in the tallest place on earth though so I cannot guarantee.
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Guys does yours height increasing bosted yours confidence?
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I'd love to be 177 or so in a perfect world. I'd have the short armed look though and even if I packed on the muscle in my legs again I'd end up looking kinda like this guy in the middle, and people always comment on his short arms.
(http://i.imgur.com/VMIRDAfm.jpg)
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Guys does yours height increasing bosted yours confidence?
Very much.
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I'd love to be 177 or so in a perfect world. I'd have the short armed look though and even if I packed on the muscle in my legs again I'd end up looking kinda like this guy in the middle, and people always comment on his short arms.
(http://i.imgur.com/VMIRDAfm.jpg)
How much difference would be betwen your heighr and your armspan if you become 177cm tall?
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I'd end up looking kinda like this guy in the middle, and people always comment on his short arms.
(http://i.imgur.com/VMIRDAfm.jpg)
It makes him more of a Rhyno though. ;D
GORE!
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If i was 173/4 cms, I'd never been on this site! If I gained an inch to 173cm I doubt I'd ever think about my height again. I'm jealous of people that are just at 5'8. It really is the cut off point for being short. At 170cm i just look on the short side. It's mentioned to me by taller guys, and often 5'8 5'9 guys will be present during the jokes and not receive any short jokes.
Plus if you look at celebs like
Kanye West
Eminen
Zac Efron
Johnny Depp
Kit Harrison
Jeremy Reiner ..... All are around 5ft8 and not deemed short.
The last thing I seem to notice is there considerable more amount of girls at 5'6 5'7 height than at 5'8. Meaning at 5'8 you just push out mojority of girls taller than you. Of course there are few 5'8 to 5'9 girls but much fewer and most those are known as being tall.
So bottom line at 5'8 I'm done and out! Il get on with life a lot happier!
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Deppends where you live. It's not the same if you live in China and Serbia. There is big difference betwen average heights in this two countries.
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If i was 173/4 cms, I'd never been on this site! If I gained an inch to 173cm I doubt I'd ever think about my height again. I'm jealous of people that are just at 5'8. It really is the cut off point for being short. At 170cm i just look on the short side. It's mentioned to me by taller guys, and often 5'8 5'9 guys will be present during the jokes and not receive any short jokes.
Plus if you look at celebs like
Kanye West
Eminen
Zac Efron
Johnny Depp
Kit Harrison
Jeremy Reiner ..... All are around 5ft8 and not deemed short.
The last thing I seem to notice is there considerable more amount of girls at 5'6 5'7 height than at 5'8. Meaning at 5'8 you just push out mojority of girls taller than you. Of course there are few 5'8 to 5'9 girls but much fewer and most those are known as being tall.
So bottom line at 5'8 I'm done and out! Il get on with life a lot happier!
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Yes, it is important just to be not short, I don't care to become tall.
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If i was 173/4 cms, I'd never been on this site! If I gained an inch to 173cm I doubt I'd ever think about my height again. I'm jealous of people that are just at 5'8. It really is the cut off point for being short. At 170cm i just look on the short side. It's mentioned to me by taller guys, and often 5'8 5'9 guys will be present during the jokes and not receive any short jokes.
Plus if you look at celebs like
Kanye West
Eminen
Zac Efron
Johnny Depp
Kit Harrison
Jeremy Reiner ..... All are around 5ft8 and not deemed short.
The last thing I seem to notice is there considerable more amount of girls at 5'6 5'7 height than at 5'8. Meaning at 5'8 you just push out mojority of girls taller than you. Of course there are few 5'8 to 5'9 girls but much fewer and most those are known as being tall.
So bottom line at 5'8 I'm done and out! Il get on with life a lot happier!
5'8" is good against most girls, especially if you have a good body and good facial aesthetics. My only gripe with being 5'8" is that it's still considerably short compared to many other guys. I feel like it's on the brink of being average, but not quite. But against women, it's pretty good, I will say that.
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My opinion is that perfect height for a male is around 184cm.
Saying that i think that if you are still short after surgery you will have some degree of height neurosis but the important thing is not to be at a perfect height . Is just to go out of the very short range to aboid discrimination.
At 5'8 one could still be short but most people wouldnt discriminate you for your height. In respect to women the important thing is to be taller than most of them .
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As you just said "perfect" don't get carried away with "perfect". 5'8 you will now avoid being actively discriminated for bring short, you are now not really that short. You have accomplished your goal. Question if you were naturally 5'8 before LL would have ever had LL done?
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For me the perfect height is 5-8cm above average height than region where live(my opinion). If i could choose my height i will be 190cm.
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Does anybody of you(forum members) were 2-3 inches under average height and after CLL become average height?
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Doingitforme and to some extent Programdude made it to average and slightly above average (respectively)
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well personally i think its incorrect to call 5 8 and 5 9 short where the average is 5 10, since its more below average than anything, its like if i was 5 11 and called myself tall, i woudn't because its not true.
also a 5 8 male can call a 5 5 male 'little man', but no one would call a 5 8 male 'little man' like ever, there is a clear cut off somewhere.
how do u know this microman?.. where are you pulling this from? you have no experience of being a man of that height so how on earth would you know.. i know people who are 5'8 and they get called short all the time... the reason you probably never experiecne a 5'8 man being called short is because when you are there at 5'5 than they are no longer the short guy.. i dont mean to be a bearer of bad news for those 5'8 and shorterbut its the truth.. from experience this is the level of discrimination you will get at certain heights.
6'0 - 6'2 - almost never be seen as short unless you are around a group of abnormally tall men, or a basketball team
5'10 - 5'11 - very occasionally, if you are from a tall family than can happen more than normal, out with a group of friends who are in the normal tall range of 6'0 to 6'2 you may be called short out of jealousy of other qualities you have, or just boys having generally harmless banter..
5'9 - occasionally be called short but normally just seen as very average
5'7-5'8 - pretty much always been seen as the short guy due to the fact that you are noticeably shorter than the average person, however not so short that people will reguraly comment on it
5'6 and below - face extreme discrimination whether it be with women, socially out with friends etc.. can really effect how people treat you and respect you
These are the facts if you are living in any are with an average height of 177/8.. ive experienced people with all these heights first hand and its always the same..
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5'7-5'8 - pretty much always been seen as the short guy due to the fact that you are noticeably shorter than the average person, however not so short that people will reguraly comment on it
lol waaaaaaaay off base there, and yeah i have been this height before with lifts, usually if your 5 7 and are in a public gathering of 30 men there will be about 7 men your height, how can you be 'the short guy' then?
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Hi!
I am new in this forum. I used to be a lurker but reading the topic i decided to write something.
From what I have read here i could assume that being taller is always better. It is not. I am, like many of you, from a country where people are tall but I don't think that being 6' 3" is better than 6'. I have played a lot of sports during my lifetime and I have noticed that people from range 5-11/6-1 have are the strongest and the fastests one. Explosivness, power and muscle coordination are on their side. I don't understand why people consider for exaple 6'3" as the perfect height. Just for for the sake of being taller than most people? It is stupid. Thinking like:"O my God. He is taller than me. He is better" is ridicoulus. A friend of mine is 6' 5" and one time he said he wished to be around 6' 1". Being very tall cause many problems with back and overall fitness ability.
I know that this topic is not about the perfect height but every topic comes to that.
I hope I don't offended anyone and sorry for my english.
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lol waaaaaaaay off base there, and yeah i have been this height before with lifts, usually if your 5 7 and are in a public gathering of 30 men there will be about 7 men your height, how can you be 'the short guy' then?
microman, that is the most stupid comment ive ever read... you are in public and there are 7 people your height so you're not short? you are contradicting your own statement without even realising, which highlights how unintelligent you really are.. you're basically saying just because you arent the shortest that you arent short? you are in denial.. its kinda like a 6'3 guy saying he isnt tall cause there is people in the room taller than him.. fact is 5'7 is short period.. . not to mention you are also the laziest person ive ever met,,, you havent showered in months, ive been told you have been wearing the same clothes the entire time, you leave garbage everywhere and piss bottles everywhere, you stink the whole hotel out, which is extremely inconsiderate to everyone else in the hotel, and you spend your whole time coming up with stupid facts that dont exist.. you've asked millions of questions on this forum, and uve only done things that require no effort.. you tell everyone u can stand up, when the fact is you are standing on your tippy toes due to how severe your ballerina is.. i know its sounds harsh but its the truth, you are unintelligent and extremely lazy.. and u need to stop kidding yourself that what you're saying is true..
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how do u know this microman?.. where are you pulling this from? you have no experience of being a man of that height so how on earth would you know.. i know people who are 5'8 and they get called short all the time... the reason you probably never experiecne a 5'8 man being called short is because when you are there at 5'5 than they are no longer the short guy.. i dont mean to be a bearer of bad news for those 5'8 and shorterbut its the truth.. from experience this is the level of discrimination you will get at certain heights.
6'0 - 6'2 - almost never be seen as short unless you are around a group of abnormally tall men, or a basketball team
5'10 - 5'11 - very occasionally, if you are from a tall family than can happen more than normal, out with a group of friends who are in the normal tall range of 6'0 to 6'2 you may be called short out of jealousy of other qualities you have, or just boys having generally harmless banter..
5'9 - occasionally be called short but normally just seen as very average
5'7-5'8 - pretty much always been seen as the short guy due to the fact that you are noticeably shorter than the average person, however not so short that people will reguraly comment on it
5'6 and below - face extreme discrimination whether it be with women, socially out with friends etc.. can really effect how people treat you and respect you
These are the facts if you are living in any are with an average height of 177/8.. ive experienced people with all these heights first hand and its always the same..
I agree with this. This is spot on, and exactly why I'm doing a second round to get to 5'9". 5'9 to me is the start of average, very rare to get called short at this height, or rejected by girls on the basis of height alone. 5'8 is where short begins, but I'd say 5'7 and under is where it's REALLY bad.
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I agree with this. This is spot on, and exactly why I'm doing a second round to get to 5'9". 5'9 to me is the start of average, very rare to get called short at this height, or rejected by girls on the basis of height alone. 5'8 is where short begins, but I'd say 5'7 and under is where it's REALLY bad.
exactly.. youve experienced 5'8 now so you know what it feels like.. even tho youve improved drastically, youve experienced what 5'8 feels like in reality.. 5'9 will get you out of the 'short zone'
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both my orthopedic surgeons i visited were 5' 6 1/3" and they said they never felt short once in their life.
why would their views be invalidated because someone else feels differently.
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both my orthopedic surgeons i visited were 5' 6 1/3" and they said they never felt short once in their life.
why would their views be invalidated because someone else feels differently.
so because 2 random short surgeons deny that they have ever felt short, this means 5'7 is magically not short all of sudden? lol
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its the exact same principle that you are saying when you make your statements.
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so when 1 random guy on a forum says 5 8 is short then its short then?
lol
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i respect your opinion, i just disagree with it, you however disagree with me and dont respect my opinion.
why can't you grasp that many of the 20% of men in the room that are 5 7-5 8 don't feel short and are happy?
notice that i respect that you feel short or discriminated against at your height of 5 11, i disagree with it but if your mind truly believes that then i wont try to change that, i hope you can respect that some men dont feel short/discrimnated against at a height you consider to be a short or get discrimation.
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why can you grasp that the 20% of men in the room that are 5 7-5 8 don't feel short and are happy?
I can tell you that im 5.8 barefoot and i wear nike airmax and when im in LA i feel short when i go in a shop, supermarket, etc.
i think that i would have to be at least 5.10 to feel normal here because i dont see many 5.9 dudes. I mean most guys are 5.10 thats really the average.
( i feel short compared to white people and im white, but with mexicans and asians i dont feel so short)
in italy ( my country of origin ) i felt short even when i was living there. Not as bad as LA because most guys are 5.9 there. If i reach 180cm, a weak 5.11, i would be at the beginning of tall.
it doesnt mean that if you are 5.7 you cant have a decent life, yesterday i saw a dude at ralphs (5.7) that was shorter than me and was with a hot girl (5.4 5.5 ) i think that when you are 5,7 or 5,8 you will get labelled as short but you wont get the discrimination that people get when they are under those heights.
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I can tell you that im 5.8 barefoot and i wear nike airmax and when im in LA i feel short when i go in a shop, supermarket, etc.
i think that i would have to be at least 5.10 to feel normal here because i dont see many 5.9 dudes. I mean most guys are 5.10 thats really the average.
i find it odd that you feel short 4cm below the male average but if that's how you feel then that's how you feel.
not sure on the feeling normal at 5 10 comment, but again, if you need to be taller than half the men in the room to feel normal then go for it.
it doesnt mean that if you are 5.7 you cant have a decent life, yesterday i saw a dude at ralphs (5.7) that was shorter than me and was with a hot girl (5.4 5.5 )
well there you go then, someone 4cm shorter than you, happy with his height, not spending $30,000 to cripple himself for 8+ months to make himself taller, just like 99.99999% of the population that dont do LL, if he can accept his height, you can to.
but if you can't, and need to be 5 10, i still respect that, although i personally feel normal at 5 7-8 and don't feel the need to be 5 10.
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I can tell you that im 5.8 barefoot and i wear nike airmax and when im in LA i feel short when i go in a shop, supermarket, etc.
i think that i would have to be at least 5.10 to feel normal here because i dont see many 5.9 dudes. I mean most guys are 5.10 thats really the average.
( i feel short compared to white people and im white, but with mexicans and asians i dont feel so short)
in italy ( my country of origin ) i felt short even when i was living there. Not as bad as LA because most guys are 5.9 there. If i reach 180cm, a weak 5.11, i would be at the beginning of tall.
it doesnt mean that if you are 5.7 you cant have a decent life, yesterday i saw a dude at ralphs (5.7) that was shorter than me and was with a hot girl (5.4 5.5 ) i think that when you are 5,7 or 5,8 you will get labelled as short but you wont get the discrimination that people get when they are under those heights.
agree with this 100%
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I can tell you that im 5.8 barefoot and i wear nike airmax and when im in LA i feel short when i go in a shop, supermarket, etc.
i think that i would have to be at least 5.10 to feel normal here because i dont see many 5.9 dudes. I mean most guys are 5.10 thats really the average.
( i feel short compared to white people and im white, but with mexicans and asians i dont feel so short)
in italy ( my country of origin ) i felt short even when i was living there. Not as bad as LA because most guys are 5.9 there. If i reach 180cm, a weak 5.11, i would be at the beginning of tall.
it doesnt mean that if you are 5.7 you cant have a decent life, yesterday i saw a dude at ralphs (5.7) that was shorter than me and was with a hot girl (5.4 5.5 ) i think that when you are 5,7 or 5,8 you will get labelled as short but you wont get the discrimination that people get when they are under those heights.
Agreed on all fronts. I am 5'8" barefoot at night, and the only time I feel close to average is when I wear my Nike Airmax. In other words, at 5'8" (or just below average), another inch or two makes a big difference. I feel like a lot of guys I pass on a daily basis just barely edge me out (they're in the 5'9-5'10 range). I'm sure at 5'9" I'd still feel short a good amount of the time, but to me, that last inch is crucial. I'd love to be 5'10", but I think I can live with 5'9". I'd be 5'10 ish in most regular shoes, and over that with sneakers (like Nike Airmax).
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its the exact same principle that you are saying when you make your statements.
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so when 1 random guy on a forum says 5 8 is short then its short then?
lol
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i respect your opinion, i just disagree with it, you however disagree with me and dont respect my opinion.
why can't you grasp that many of the 20% of men in the room that are 5 7-5 8 don't feel short and are happy?
notice that i respect that you feel short or discriminated against at your height of 5 11, i disagree with it but if your mind truly believes that then i wont try to change that, i hope you can respect that some men dont feel short/discrimnated against at a height you consider to be a short or get discrimation.
im not saying anything about how people feel, if someones happy at 5'7 then thats great, but its still short.. you're completely missing the point of the whole argument.. my argument is saying that 5'7 is labelled short, you're now saying that some people will be happy with their height at 5'7 which doesnt mean that it isnt short.. every single person i know that is 5'7 and has a good social life, with a big group of friends, is always labelled the short guy, so to say that 5'7 isnt short is completely false..
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didn't you say you've been labbeled 'short' plenty of times at 5' 11 1/4"?
i also know plenty of guys who are 5 7, none are ever called short, usually it's guys about 5 5, for example if you name is john and you are 5 5 people may call you 'little john', but i have never heard anyone say anything short related to a 5 7 man.
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didn't you say you've been labbeled 'short' plenty of times at 5' 11 1/4"?
i also know plenty of guys who are 5 7, none are ever called short, usually it's guys about 5 5, for example if you name is john and you are 5 5 people may call you 'little john', but i have never heard anyone say anything short related to a 5 7 man.
yes i have been called short plenty of times at my original height, but thats aLL Forumrom certain perspectives.. but it doesnt mean its short.. which is my point... just because someone says or feels a certain height is short or not short doesnt mean it is/isnt.. the facts are facts, 5'5 is very short, 5'7 is short, 5'9,5'10 is average, 5'11 above average 6'0-6'1 average tall 6'2/6'3 tall 6'4+ very tall.. it doesnt matter what your or my opinion on a certain height is, you cant escape the facts, and they are the facts.. but if you feel 5'7 is not short than good for you, all im saying is it isnt, thats not just my opinion thats the truth..
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where are you getting these 'facts' from, i can link 2 articals that say 5 7 is not short and 5 6 is within normal boundries
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2080771/Would-spend-34-000-3-INCHES-taller-Thomas-Keeper-thigh-bone-sawn-half-spent-months-hobbling-frame.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2105995/The-agonising-expensive-leg-lengthening-proceedure-surgery-patient-SIX-INCHES-taller.html
also the short and male documentary had mainly 5 4 men, not one 5 7 man was on there, and there are two other documentaries about being short and only featured men 5 5 and under.
overal it's debatable whether short is 5 7 and under or 5 6 and under, i tend to think the latter, based on articals and observations.
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if 5,7 werent short, PUTIN would not be considered so.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/russia/140310/russian-president-vladimir-putin-psychoanalysis
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where are you getting these 'facts' from, i can link 2 articals that say 5 7 is not short and 5 6 is within normal boundries
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2080771/Would-spend-34-000-3-INCHES-taller-Thomas-Keeper-thigh-bone-sawn-half-spent-months-hobbling-frame.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2105995/The-agonising-expensive-leg-lengthening-proceedure-surgery-patient-SIX-INCHES-taller.html
also the short and male documentary had mainly 5 4 men, not one 5 7 man was on there, and there are two other documentaries about being short and only featured men 5 5 and under.
overal it's debatable whether short is 5 7 and under or 5 6 and under, i tend to think the latter, based on articals and observations.
microman.. it shows you dont have a very good social life.. if you had a normal social life and were around lots of people, and had lots of friends, u would know 5'7 is short.. your problem is you have no experience in the real world.. youre in a fantasy land and only live from behind your computer.. its obvious when meeting you in person, you dont have the social skills or the experience of being in social environments often enough to even be one to discuss this topic accurately .. you are finding any way to believe that 5'7 isnt short.. your not kidding anyone but yourself.. just give up with trying to argue with me that 5'7 isnt short, because in the real world it is.. not some fantasy land that you are living in..
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lol Descreteuser...love ya to death, and I agree with you 100% (even though you're kinda a jerk :) )
I think it goes like this:
5'6" and below - life sucks. You're very short.
5'7" - still quite short, but somewhat passable.
5'8" - high short. But still short. Mediocre at best.
5'9" - low end of average. You mostly blend in, but very dependent on who's around.
5'10" - dead on average.
5'11" - high average. You might get called "tall" sometimes by short girls (you can claim 6ft easily).
6' - 6'1" - low tall
6'2" - tall. A great height.
6'3" - 6'4" - very tall. Amazing height if you can fill your frame.
6'5"+ - too tall
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lol Descreteuser...love ya to death, and I agree with you 100% (even though you're kinda a jerk :) )
I think it goes like this:
5'6" and below - life sucks. You're very short.
5'7" - still quite short, but somewhat passable.
5'8" - high short. But still short.
5'9" - low end of average. You mostly blend in, but very dependent on who's around.
5'10" - dead on average.
5'11" - high average. You might get called "tall" sometimes by short girls (you can claim 6ft easily).
6' - 6'1" - low tall
6'2" - tall. A great height.
6'3 - 6'4 - very tall. Great if you can fill your frame.
6'5+ - too tall
haha yeah sometimes you have to be a jerk for some of these deluded people to understand how stupid they sound..
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Dude, Descreteuser chill out. The biggest issue right now is you tone and how it's coming off. I'm not gonna argue that 5'7 isn't short; in the same manner that 6'0 is short next to 6'5. It's all relative man. Most of us here at the forum want to escape the fate of being "short" but that's somewhat, also relative to our starting height. So when a person bellow event he 5'7 mark get's told that even that is short, even if he were to reach it, it strikes subtle nerve. I wouldn't call it a disillusionment, because if we did then the same could have been applied at your own case lets face it.
The last point I want to make is that, as I said, since this forum is built upon the pretext that we want to escape shortness, one must realize the relative and sensitive nature of this. There is a very toxic tone to that word "short" in this forum. Focusing on what society considering short is incredibly toxic, it can make you think dark hopeless things. So please we can be realistic about it, but don't be jerks in context as to how you use that word.
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Dude, Descreteuser chill out. The biggest issue right now is you tone and how it's coming off. I'm not gonna argue that 5'7 isn't short; in the same manner that 6'0 is short next to 6'5. It's all relative man. Most of us here at the forum want to escape the fate of being "short" but that's somewhat, also relative to our starting height. So when a person bellow event he 5'7 mark get's told that even that is short, even if he were to reach it, it strikes subtle nerve. I wouldn't call it a disillusionment, because if we did then the same could have been applied at your own case lets face it.
The last point I want to make is that, as I said, since this forum is built upon the pretext that we want to escape shortness, one must realize the relative and sensitive nature of this. There is a very toxic tone to that word "short" in this forum. Focusing on what society considering short is incredibly toxic, it can make you think dark hopeless things. So please we can be realistic about it, but don't be jerks in context as to how you use that word.
people dont want to believe it is short.. but its just the truth.. theres no point trying to convince ourselves that it isnt short.. no point lying to ourselves.. sometimes the truth hurts, but thats reality.. everyone will benefit from limb lengthening, 5'7 is much better than 5'5 but stilldoesnt hide the fact that its short..
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After LL if height neurosis go than that's great. But if it doesn't go than atleast you will feel you have tried everything.
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After LL if height neurosis go than that's great. But if it doesn't go than atleast you will feel you have tried everything.
best way to think of it is,, you are the best you can possibly be.. no one else youll ever meet would have been able to improve what you have improved if you did limb lengthening..
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There's no objective cut off, it's all relative. There's plenty of places in the world where 5'7 isn't short, and plenty of places where it is. How many of you are white? Why aren't you guys cashing in on your western privilege card before chopping up your legs? 5'7 and white works fine in the middle east and asia. if you're fit and have money, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
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Middle east? lol sounds like a good plan, let us whities go to Syria and Iraq and be the fish in the barrel.
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Erm ... Oman, Kuwait, Bahrain, Dubai, Iran, Turkey ... all great places with attractive women.
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Ehh I'd rather stick to America lol. But yeah 5'7 is a point where you're not gonna be "discriminated."
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yep, 5'7"or 5'11" doesn't matter, you're still gonna end up in jail if you kiss a girl in public, no discrimination!
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plenty good social life over here, know lots of guys 5 7, not one of them considered short, its not a topic of conversation that comes up once with them.
different group of people i guess.
only people 5 5 have i seen with height issues, 5 6 is like a half way point really, i know about 6 guys exactly 5 6 and they are never called short.
thats a fact, for me, probably the same for the orthopedic surgeons i visited before LL, they weren't even 5 7, more 5 6.5, they said they were never called short and 'knew lots of guys this heigth and it isn't short'.
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plenty good social life over here, know lots of guys 5 7, not one of them considered short, its not a topic of conversation that comes up once with them.
different group of people i guess.
only people 5 5 have i seen with height issues, 5 6 is like a half way point really, i know about 6 guys exactly 5 6 and they are never called short.
thats a fact, for me, probably the same for the orthopedic surgeons i visited before LL, they weren't even 5 7, more 5 6.5, they said they were never called short and 'knew lots of guys this heigth and it isn't short'.
micorman .. you need to getout in the real world.. than u will agree with me
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have done and 100% disagree.
here is a scientific definition of short.
More recently, LL has been used to give people with Constitutional Short Stature two or three extra inches of height. The term Constitutional Short Stature refers to people who are in the bottom fifth percentile of height in their region and do not display any deformities common with dwarfism. – short support
and yeah that would be under 5 6.
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You can't possibly suggest moving to another country to get laid more often. That's way too far.
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You can't possibly suggest moving to another country to get laid more often. That's way too far.
spending 10's of thousands, breaking your legs and being crippled for a year .... or years ... or even life is fine but jumping on a plane is too far. got it.
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spending 10's of thousands, breaking your legs and being crippled for potentially years is fine but jumping on a plane is too far. got it.
1. Living in another country permanently to get laid is too far.
2. You're assuming people do LL just for girls, which is absurd.
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1. Living in another country permanently to get laid is too far.
2. You're assuming people do LL just for girls, which is absurd.
It's absurd to think that 2 inches, & all that goes with getting it is going to give you more benefits than a culture change - whether it be sexually or professionally.
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It's absurd to think that 2 inches, & all that goes with getting it is going to give you more benefits than a culture change - whether it be sexually or professionally.
Assuming that's true, I don't get why someone would move to another country when they're used to living in their country in their social circles and customs.. uprooting everything you've lived to get laid more sounds terrible. Unless you have no friends/family in that country, then I guess you can move.
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Assuming that's true, I don't get why someone would move to another country when they're used to living in their country in their social circles and customs.. uprooting everything you've lived to get laid more sounds terrible. Unless you have no friends/family in that country, then I guess you can move.
C'mon man get real. Half the people here (probably more like 80%, actually) don't plan on telling the majority of the people in their life (if anyone at all) about LL. That means you'll be isolated from them for at least a couple of months anyway, potentially longer. And then you have to lie to them all after that. So you're uprooting yourself either way.
If you're willing to LL, you have to be willing to spend 6 months abroad first. The risk/reward from doing that is SO much better than LL they're not even in the same ballpark.
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C'mon man get real. Half the people here (probably more like 80%, actually) don't plan on telling the majority of the people in their life (if anyone at all) about LL. That means you'll be isolated from them for at least a couple of months anyway, potentially longer. And then you have to lie to them all after that. So you're uprooting yourself either way.
If you're willing to LL, you have to be willing to spend 6 months abroad first. The risk/reward from doing that is SO much better than LL they're not even in the same ballpark.
I guess I'm different then. Cause my close family & friends know about it and I have more reasons than simply getting laid. But I really think it's dumb for an American to move to Asia because "I feel taller there". The first world privileges you lose will kill you from the inside. If you want to suggest an alternative to LL, just working on confidence or "game" would work.
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There's no objective cut off, it's all relative. There's plenty of places in the world where 5'7 isn't short, and plenty of places where it is. How many of you are white? Why aren't you guys cashing in on your western privilege card before chopping up your legs? 5'7 and white works fine in the middle east and asia. if you're fit and have money, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Isn't this totally unfair to the guys in asia and middle east? I can imagine there would be a fair amount of resentment from these white guys coming there just to bang the girls in those places. It seems like a recipe for trouble.
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There's no objective cut off, it's all relative. There's plenty of places in the world where 5'7 isn't short, and plenty of places where it is. How many of you are white? Why aren't you guys cashing in on your western privilege card before chopping up your legs? 5'7 and white works fine in the middle east and asia. if you're fit and have money, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
how am i going to use " western privilege" if even the girls have it?
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Isn't this totally unfair to the guys in asia and middle east? I can imagine there would be a fair amount of resentment from these white guys coming there just to bang the girls in those places. It seems like a recipe for trouble.
It's playing the hand you're dealt. Obviously you wouldn't go over there & rub it in their faces. And you wouldn't just be there for girls - there's a lot to learn and experience outside of women by travelling outside your comfort zone.
how am i going to use " western privilege" if even the girls have it?
What?
I guess I'm different then. Cause my close family & friends know about it and I have more reasons than simply getting laid. But I really think it's dumb for an American to move to Asia because "I feel taller there". The first world privileges you lose will kill you from the inside. If you want to suggest an alternative to LL, just working on confidence or "game" would work.
Have you traveled? Your first world privilege isn't lost, it's accentuated .. especially if you're white. This isn't fair, and I feel for the ethnic guys, but it is what it is. I don't know how you can call travel 'dumb' and leg lengthening reasonable. Calculate the potential gains/losses. People won't treat you differently because of 2 inches! But they do treat you differently because of wealth, class, nationality, race, character and ... yes, appearance - but 2 inches isn't going to markedly affect this! And depending on where you are in the world, the way you gain/lose from these traits will be significantly different.
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lol it makes way more sense to get LL than live in another country just because people are shorter.
and you act like it would be a holiday, but you would have to permanenly live there forever as as soon as you return to your own country you will be short again.
also stop saying 2 inches, a more typical gain is 6cm, so lets assume everyone at least gets 6cm/2.4inches.
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lol it makes way more sense to get LL than live in another country just because people are shorter.
and you act like it would be a holiday, but you would have to permanenly live there forever as as soon as you return to your own country you will be short again.
also stop saying 2 inches, a more typical gain is 6cm, so lets assume everyone at least gets 6cm/2.4inches.
Compared to LL it's not a holiday, it's heaven. And it's not just because others are relatively shorter. It's because the traits you have are more valuable there across the board. Your wealth's more valuable, your social capital is more valuable, your nationality is more valuable, and yep your height is more valuable too.
And sure, replace 2 inches with 2.4 inches. Doesn't change anything.
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how is permanenly living in an asian territory where people don't speak english as their primary language like 'heaven'.
while there is a slight social advantage to being caucasion in an asian territory i'd rather just be myself living amongst other caucasians living a normal life withouth height discrimination.
the main issue is height, and if you move to an asian territory you will be about 6cm taller, it is the same as LL in terms of benefits so by your point doing both things is 'useless', but now instead you have to learn a whole new language, LL only takes about 3 months anyway then your back home, you just live semi disabled but in your country that speaks english for a few months then your back to normal.
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It doesn't have to be Asia, & there are plenty of places where English is widely spoken, & business is conducted in English. Dubai & Singapore are good examples. And it doesn't have to be permanent. You have a better chance of losing your height neurosis abroad by changing your perspective, than by adding 2.4 inches.
The damage that has to be done re: your wealth, time and health for 2.4 inches from LL is not reasonable. Worse still is that the doors you believe having those extra 2.4 inches will open don't exist.
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well my point still stands, if you think 6cm is not worth anything, then why move to a shorter country in the first place, is it to test out what it's like to be 6cm taller? if so then that's a actually a good idea.
and no if you want to maintain your relative height you would have to stay there, if you get shorter again you will feel the same as you did before.
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So you would leave your family, friends, traditions/culture and all your first world privileges and move to Asia?
Have you traveled? Your first world privilege isn't lost, it's accentuated .. especially if you're white. This isn't fair, and I feel for the ethnic guys, but it is what it is. I don't know how you can call travel 'dumb' and leg lengthening reasonable. Calculate the potential gains/losses. People won't treat you differently because of 2 inches! But they do treat you differently because of wealth, class, nationality, race, character and ... yes, appearance - but 2 inches isn't going to markedly affect this! And depending on where you are in the world, the way you gain/lose from these traits will be significantly different.
Think you got the wrong idea here. I meant your safety, good streets, hygiene, accessibility to things and so forth- a lot of first world privileges(I can't be assed to name all) would be left behind. Just to be 2 inches taller, which is retarded.
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So you would leave your family, friends, traditions/culture and all your first world privileges and move to Asia?
If I was preparing to drop at minimum tens of thousands of dollars, but probably closer to 6 figures - and write off 1 + years of my life - I would absolutely try a move before that. I'm not sure if you young guys can comprehend how financially disastrous doing this is, let alone all the rest of the issues with it.
Think you got the wrong idea here. I meant your safety, good streets, hygiene, accessibility to things and so forth- a lot of first world privileges(I can't be assed to name all) would be left behind. Just to be 2 inches taller, which is retarded.
You think there's a lack of safety, hygiene and infrastructure in Singapore? Come on. Dubai, Turkey ... (even with the recent bombing) ... great infrastructure. & even one rung down ... Malaysia, Thailand ... all amazing places to live on western money.
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Dubai and Singapore are indeed awesome and first-worldesque. But what's the average height there?
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Dubai and Singapore are indeed awesome and first-worldesque. But what's the average height there?
I have no idea. But they were definitely shorter than the average in Australia.
well my point still stands, if you think 6cm is not worth anything, then why move to a shorter country in the first place, is it to test out what it's like to be 6cm taller? if so then that's a actually a good idea.
I already answered that. Obviously you don't "gain" any amount of height by travelling - but your value in the dating/professional game can go up because your attributes are, relatively speaking, more desirable. Height neurosis makes you zero in on height as the be all and end all. But as I keep saying, 2 inches doesn't make much of a difference.
Think of it another way, if you really must focus solely on height. If you're 5'8, and the average in your country is 5'10 ... you "gain" just as much by moving somewhere with an average height of 5'8, as you would do by doing 2 inches of LL and staying at home - because in both cases you become right on the average. Except one doesn't cost tens of thousands, ruin your athletic ability and leave you crippled for in a good case a year, in a bad case for life. And in one example you actually gain money, as your $$$ go further abroad. You speak English, which could be a big advantage professionally. And you're exotic, which further adds to your dating value. I could go on ...
Edit: I missed your last sentence. Yes! Exactly. Going abroad would (potentially, if you're in the 5'6 and above range) give you a taste of what it's like to be of average height or even above average. The average height in Malaysia must be really short by western standards, I'm a giant there at 5'11. Surely this is a wise move before going all in and doing LL!?
By the way, the South African doctor that posts here disagrees with your claim of 6cm. So I'm gonna go back to saying 2 inches.
I think the debate around CLL goes wider. I suppose it has to do with cosmetic surgery in general. The reality is surgery is invasive and never perfectly safe. Up till recently we have not really had devices that were reliable, reproducible and predictable for femoral lengthening. Now with Precice we have that. In addition, the desired length is important. Anything beyond 4-5cm per segment becomes really problematic in terms of complication rates. Realistically the cost is almost prohibitive to go through a 4 segment lengthening, which means most patients end up with 5 cm either femoral or tibial. With this in mind, we have to ask whether the patient will really be happy with gaining 5 cm.
Having said all this, I realise very well that there are individuals who benefit greatly (physically and psychologically) from CLL, and it is this select group that I believe are the ideal patients.
As you can see this leaves us with a small group of patients who can a) afford it and b) be happy with it c) are healthy enough and d) are appropriate candidates (2 standard deviations shorter than the population average).
Once we've met all these criteria, there are few patients left.
From a doctor's perspective there are really 3 issues: patient safety, medicolegal risk and lastly a potential increased arthritis risk after CLL.
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Hey Thatdude950 I have a hypothetical for you.
It appears that your primary objections to LL is in regards to safety, money and time.
If LL could be done with a degree of 100% safety with full recovery in a couple of weeks and at a reasonable cost would you be in favour of it then?
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@ThatDude: Yeah, moving makes you relatively taller, but I wouldn't move from the comfort of a first world country to someplace else for that. Someone who does that will probably decide to live with being short and move back home within a week.
EDIT: Unless Singapore/Dubai etc. have a shorter height.. which is doubtful. Something as good as a FWC should have similar height ratios.
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don't go back to saying 5cm, look at all the diaries on this site and the other, how many of them only do 5cm, like 1% or something, and usually that is because they are relatively tall for this type or surgery, as in they get to 5 9 at 5cm gain.
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Hey Thatdude950 I have a hypothetical for you.
It appears that your primary objections to LL is in regards to safety, money and time.
If LL could be done with a degree of 100% safety with full recovery in a couple of weeks and at a reasonable cost would you be in favour of it then?
It would depend - but if there was, say a pill you could take that made you 3 inches taller I would be in favor of it for sure. In "curing" their height neuroses [*inverted commas because lots of patients seem to regret it, or plan to do further surgery] LLers take a sledge hammer to their other attributes which are also very valuable (wealth, strength, time). If there were less costs involved I would have a different opinion. But the costs are MASSIVE.
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It would depend - but if there was, say a pill you could take that made you 3 inches taller I would be in favor of it for sure. In "curing" their height neuroses [*inverted commas because lots of patients seem to regret it, or plan to do further surgery] LLers take a sledge hammer to their other attributes which are also very valuable (wealth, strength, time). If there were less costs involved I would have a different opinion. But the costs are MASSIVE.
That sounds reasonable, the follow up to that question is. If shorter guys are becoming average height and above what are your thoughts on naturally taller guys losing the height advantage they have in career, dating etc?
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In terms of money, strength, and time, I think LL is a good deal.
I can't think of a better way to spend $40k (25k for the surgery and accommodations, another 15k for plane tickets, scar removal, and misc stuff) than to go from being short to average in society, from feeling inferior to feeling comfortable in my own skin. I proved wrong anyone who says you can't buy happiness; LL bought quite a lot for me. I'm very happy with the return on my investment. What's the point of having money in the first place if not to buy the things you want in life?
I'm pretty much as strong as I was before the surgery. I can leg press as much as I could before, sprint as fast as before, and walk as long as before. My long-distance running endurance is the only physical attribute that really took much of a hit.
Although it was rough at the time due to being virtually immobile and in pain the whole time, I look back on my trip to Beijing fondly. I met some cool people there who I had a lot in common with, both Chinese and foreign, and I enjoyed my 5-month vacation from my life and all its responsibilities and cares. The cultural experience of living in a humble Chinese LL hospital is very different from anything you'd get as a tourist. It wasn't wasted time.
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Great post MDOFW
It pains me to think everyone who got LL now regrets it, that surly can't be true??
I'm still very much on the fence, my height is making me feel so depressed and I see LL as making me happy.
But the thought lingers...... What if I regret it? What if I can never play foot ball again? What if I can never ski again?? What if I develop a whole new depression out of the lack of recovery and twisted feeling that I crippled myself, I did it!!
Anyway, we need hear more success stories on here, I'm sick of hearing horror story's!!
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Considering you're just looking to become 2-3 cm taller... I don't think that part of the argument agaisnt LL would even remotely applies to you. If anything his argument against doing it for just 2 inches, as you are doing less then that, is more of a reason against you.
Also as far as regret goes, sure if the process ultimately leaves you crippled then yes I could see that.
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It would depend - but if there was, say a pill you could take that made you 3 inches taller I would be in favor of it for sure. In "curing" their height neuroses [*inverted commas because lots of patients seem to regret it, or plan to do further surgery] LLers take a sledge hammer to their other attributes which are also very valuable (wealth, strength, time). If there were less costs involved I would have a different opinion. But the costs are MASSIVE.
what if someone is filthy rich? what if someone could afford to take 100'000 and burn them? should he stay short?
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2 inches is a huge gain, no matter how tall you are. Thatdude is probably a mutual funds salesman ;)
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what if someone is filthy rich? what if someone could afford to take 100'000 and burn them? should he stay short?
Then the risk/reward calculations change. There's a big difference between an established man dropping money he can easily afford, to a young guy doing it.
The first $100,00 or so is the hardest to make. You've got to grind for it. In my case it took about 8 years of work. Sure, in that time I traveled the world and dropped some money on things I didn't need, but overall I was pretty diligent with saving - and it still took me 8 years. Once you've got some capital, it gets so much easier after that. To me, LL is putting the average young guy, when you include recovery time almost 10 years behind financially. That's huge. When I was in my teens I would have said money doesn't matter - but money is power ... it's freedom. It matters.
It's a different story for someone who already has millions. For me, it's then still not worth it. I'm a "pro" athlete according to this website [not really, but the standards of what's a decent athletic recovery here are very, very low). So in my mind it wouldn't be worth it for an active person that's rich anyway - but it's nowhere near as bad as a young guy doing it.
In terms of money, strength, and time, I think LL is a good deal.
I can't think of a better way to spend $40k (25k for the surgery and accommodations, another 15k for plane tickets, scar removal, and misc stuff) than to go from being short to average in society, from feeling inferior to feeling comfortable in my own skin. I proved wrong anyone who says you can't buy happiness; LL bought quite a lot for me. I'm very happy with the return on my investment. What's the point of having money in the first place if not to buy the things you want in life?
I'm pretty much as strong as I was before the surgery. I can leg press as much as I could before, sprint as fast as before, and walk as long as before. My long-distance running endurance is the only physical attribute that really took much of a hit.
Although it was rough at the time due to being virtually immobile and in pain the whole time, I look back on my trip to Beijing fondly. I met some cool people there who I had a lot in common with, both Chinese and foreign, and I enjoyed my 5-month vacation from my life and all its responsibilities and cares. The cultural experience of living in a humble Chinese LL hospital is very different from anything you'd get as a tourist. It wasn't wasted time.
I'm glad you're happy with it. You preempted my reply, which would have been that you could have had a better experience by going to China as an English teacher for 6 months. I don't doubt that you took something meaningful away from it ... But I do think the same thing could have been achieved without all the negatives of LL.
If 40k was worth it for you, again great. Were you in good shape financially before LL? And re: recovery ... the only recovery I've seen that seems decent is ShyShy. No offence, but if you were really, really weak and slow before doing LL, I suppose it's possible to be just as weak and slow when you finish it. How much are you squatting? How fast can you run 100m?
That sounds reasonable, the follow up to that question is. If shorter guys are becoming average height and above what are your thoughts on naturally taller guys losing the height advantage they have in career, dating etc?
No different to how I feel about guys around me making more money, being buffer, being more charismatic, better looking, having bigger dcks, having better connections/education/more prestigious jobs. It's just reality.
If there was a pill to make you taller, I'd list it with the above traits. But I think LL is easily a net loss to most people - a net loss for people that are already vulnerable and can't afford it. Which makes me feel kind of sad.
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2 inches is a huge gain, no matter how tall you are. Thatdude is probably a mutual funds salesman ;)
Haha this made me laugh :)
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Thatdude, I agree with a lot of the things you are saying, but I think you are looking too deeply in quantitative instead of the qualitative aspects of LL. Yes, 2 inches isn't a crazy difference, but it brings 100 inches of confidence, happiness, and joy for a lot here. Is it worth it? again that's to the individual. We each make up our own world in our head. As far as money- it comes it goes. That's just the fact of life... millionaires become broke and broke guys become millionaires, so if you are basing your happiness on money alone, you are playing an even riskier game than LL.
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Yes, 2 inches isn't a crazy difference, but it brings 100 inches of confidence, happiness, and joy for a lot here.
I think that's big leap of faith - if you look at most of the diaries, I think you'll find that this isn't what happens. I have a lot of respect for those that share their journey, but I find it amazing how selectively they're read by others. I just finished one at old forum - the guy wrote his detailed final thoughts, clearly regretted it ... And then the next few posts are from people saying his diary inspired them to go ahead with LL and use his doctor. I mean wtf?
Is it worth it? again that's to the individual. We each make up our own world in our head. As far as money- it comes it goes. That's just the fact of life... millionaires become broke and broke guys become millionaires, so if you are basing your happiness on money alone, you are playing an even riskier game than LL.
Yep, life/happines is a balancing act for sure. Doing LL is an extremely imbalanced approach. Massive risks and costs for what will probably one be small rewards - and that's being generous. There's a good chance all the costs will make you more miserable.
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mine is totally gone. even next to tall guys, or women its gone. I went on a date while crippled from my leg injury with a 6 1 chick and even while kissing pretty much eye to eye I felt great.
Despite the IMMENSE amount of time its taken, all the pain, all the delays, and even my most recent horrifying complication, that is why I still don't regret it.. because I'm happy now, totally comfortable.
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Hey PD, thanks for your input. How would you say your proportions look now after 8cm. Is it noticeably off? Does your tibia look really small comparative? How much would you suggest to lengthen?
Thanks,
Blah
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Cosmetically, for someone with my build I would recommend the 8 CM I did
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This is kind of a scary thing to think about. I mean what if you go through all that time, money, and pain, and despite being taller you feel no different about yourself aside from having random pains and reduced athletic function? It's crazy that some people who got all kinds of messed up from their leg lengthening even consider going for a second one. Like "I can no longer run, my ankles hurt like sh!t every single day, my bones hurt when it rains, and I'm totally miserable. But I'm going to lengthen my second segment now because at least I won't feel short!" :o
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Cosmetically, for someone with my build I would recommend the 8 CM I did
Will you be posting before and after pictures?
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Its possible. I had always envisioned doing it when I was 100% though, and that keeps creeping farther away. I'm making no promises either way.
Yellowspike, as well as the other members who have met me as well as those I lengthened with all thought my proportions were ideal. I have only had one comment about my legs being long, and that wasnt from them looking at them, but them trying to contort into a sex position that my long legs made challenging.
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Its possible. I had always envisioned doing it when I was 100% though, and that keeps creeping farther away. I'm making no promises either way.
Yellowspike, as well as the other members who have met me as well as those I lengthened with all thought my proportions were ideal. I have only had one comment about my legs being long, and that wasnt from them looking at them, but them trying to contort into a sex position that my long legs made challenging.
I agree. Some positions are a bit more frustrating because I feel like certain things are a bit 'father away' than they were prior to LL. But your proportions looked fine to me. Everyone has said my proportions look totally normal after 7cm. I've done mockups with 2.5cm more ,and it looks virtually the same. And I've asked some girls who've seen me nked, and they've all said another inch on my femurs wouldn't likely be a problem (and I know they were totally honest with me). And since my legs are filling out more, they'll look even more normal in the long run (extra muscle hides from the long femurs)
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Hi Yellowspike, I pm'd you as I will be following your footsteps. Any chance you can take a look. Also, ProgramDude I am really nervous about proportions, can you please take a look at my proportions and tell me if I can pull it off. Its under Height and Proportions section.
Thanks,
-Blah
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Its possible. I had always envisioned doing it when I was 100% though, and that keeps creeping farther away. I'm making no promises either way.
Yellowspike, as well as the other members who have met me as well as those I lengthened with all thought my proportions were ideal. I have only had one comment about my legs being long, and that wasnt from them looking at them, but them trying to contort into a sex position that my long legs made challenging.
What's your true inseam and wingspan?
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Not sure on my measurements really
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Height neurosis will never be truly gone in people who do it for women. There are always going to be tall women in the world. Including taller than your new height. You'll look at them and feel like you still could use just a little more...
Anyone who's 5'9~5'10 and not living in a country like Sweden or the Netherlands merely needs a psychologist, not LL.
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Its gone for me but there's other problems like uneven balance and weakness. So there's that
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Its gone for me but there's other problems like uneven balance and weakness. So there's that
Hi ub40, glad to hear the neurosis is gone, but too bad about balance and weakness.
Did you do femurs ? How long has it been? Do you have a diary.
Wish you continued recovery.
I am doing femurs in January 2018.