Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: texasbruce on February 10, 2016, 11:26:10 PM
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After reading a few diaries, I got this (possibly false) impression that people undergone femoral LL retain better athletic ability than tibial LL?
Any ideas?
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I have read a lot of diaries too! I have also met up with people who did LL in my country. People that lengthened up to 6 centimetres in the tibia, got all their athletic ability back. People that lengthened up to 7-8 centimetres in the femur also got their athletic ability back.
Don't anymore than 6 in the tibia or anymore than 8 in the femur or you will lose athletic ability.
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I have read a lot of diaries too! I have also met up with people who did LL in my country. People that lengthened up to 6 centimetres in the tibia, got all their athletic ability back. People that lengthened up to 7-8 centimetres in the femur also got their athletic ability back.
Don't anymore than 6 in the tibia or anymore than 8 in the femur or you will lose athletic ability.
Hey jay I read your post where you said you met with Dr Tetsworth and he said 15% on a segment is ok. Wouldn't it depend on the original height of the patient rather than hard and fast numbers of 6cm for tibia and 8cm for femur?
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Yes, that is absolutely correct. He said 15% of whatever your bone length is is the safest thing to do. he also said when you go a millimetres over the 15% mark it starts to get VERY PAINFUL! And you start losing muscle bit by bit.
I could push to 6 centimetres in my tibia, but I'm taking a huge chance of losing a lot of muscle and athletic ability. it happens really quickly.
My tibia length is 37= 5.5 centimetres
My femur length is 48 centimetres= 7.2 centimetres.
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Yes, that is absolutely correct. He said 15% of whatever your bone length is is the safest thing to do. he also said when you go a millimetres over the 15% mark it starts to get VERY PAINFUL! And you start losing muscle bit by bit.
I could push to 6 centimetres in my tibia, but I'm taking a huge chance of losing a lot of muscle and athletic ability. it happens really quickly.
My tibia length is 37= 5.5 centimetres
My femur length is 48 centimetres= 7.2 centimetres.
Your previous quote of saying that people who lengthen up to 6cm on tibia and 7-8cm on femur get all their athletic ability back contradicts what you just wrote. Were these other patients taller than you to start with?
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No, one was 5'4 and the other one was 5'2. They both did 6 centimetres in the tibia. They were both running and walking extremely well. I did not ask them about their bone length, but they were both doing fine. However, I have seen people that post here saying they did 7 centimetres in the tibia and lost a lot of their muscle/athletic ability.
I'm still sticking with Dr. Tetsworth and staying on the safe side and doing 15% of my bone length, but somehow people can still do 6 centimetres in the tibia and be okay, and people are doing 7-8 centimetres in the femur and claim they are back to normal.
Some doctors believe it has nothing to do with percentage and it has to do with amount. It's hard to say, really. But I will stick to the 15% of bone length idea. It just sounds safe and realistic.
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I think the percentage concept makes more sense also. Doing 6cm a far greater amount a 165cm guy than a 180cm guy.
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I actually got the impression that lengthening the femurs gave much less appealing recovery than lengthening the Tibia (Could be because the tibia lengthening method exists much longer?)
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There is a thread about atheltic recovery, a Dr.(Lee I believe) tracked the recovery of his tibia patients after a couple of year and the result was that only the people who lengthened below 5cm´s got their atletism back.
I actually got the impression that femur patients seem to recover better, this might be caused by the fact that most ppl leave the forum after the procedure and the tibial recovery just takes much longer. A Dr. who does LL for corrective purposes by using the percise nail told me that a 100% recovery after more than 2-3cm´s is impossible and that´s the reason why he woudln´t ever do this for cosmetic purposes.
Edit:
From the people here on the forum only Shyshy recovered really well (and proofed it), Vetpat also said that he regained all of his prior athletism. Most peole lack explosivness and the ability to perform quick movements after LL.
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My tibia length is 37= 5.5 centimetres
My femur length is 48 centimetres= 7.2 centimetres.
How tall are you?
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There is a thread about atheltic recovery, a Dr.(Lee I believe) tracked the recovery of his tibia patients after a couple of year and the result was that only the people who lengthened below 5cm´s got their atletism back.
I actually got the impression that femur patients seem to recover better, this might be caused by the fact that most ppl leave the forum after the procedure and the tibial recovery just takes much longer. A Dr. who does LL for corrective purposes by using the percise nail told me that a 100% recovery after more than 2-3cm´s is impossible and that´s the reason why he woudln´t ever do this for cosmetic purposes.
Edit:
From the people here on the forum only Shyshy recovered really well (and proofed it), Vetpat also said that he regained all of his prior athletism. Most peole lack explosivness and the ability to perform quick movements after LL.
100% of athletic recovery or general recovery? Knowing anatomy, femoral lengthening should be much more serious since you are stretching the muscles that connect your knee to the femur but also your pelvic bones... You stretch much more muscle groups by lengthening the femurs... A thing that does not happen when lengthening the tibia.
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Athletic recovery, all the patients gained back their ability to walk normally again. The people who exeeded the 5cm mark only gained back 60-70% of their ability perform quick movements and sprints.
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How tall are you?
I am 171 centimetres. Just above a flat 5'7.
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What Dr Lee had to say regarding athletic recovery with follow up of 100s of LL patients.
"I personally asked Dr. Lee what he thought about this (lengthening past 6 cm) and he has told me that from his experience in talking to former lengthening patients (2-3 years post recovery) those that only lengthened 5 cm recovered fully and their previous athleticism returned close to 100% to pre-LL levels. On the other hand, those who chose to lengthen between 6 and 7 centimeters recovered 100% in performing daily functions (walking, light jogging, etc), BUT only recovered about 60-70% of their pre-LL athleticism when engaging in serious sports/strenuous activities (full sprinting, jumping, basketball, rugby,etc..). Additionally, those that lengthened beyond 7 cm saw an ever greater decline in their previous athletic abilities.
In short, those who lengthen beyond 5 cm will not be able to recover all of their pre-LL athletic abilities because their muscles, nerves, tendons will be stretched well beyond their natural limits and will be permanently damaged. He used the rubber band analogy and Dr. Lee believes strongly in this. Once a rubber band (muscle) is stretched beyond its natural limit, even if its by only half a centimeter, then it will begin to tear and will forever lose its previous elasticity. The muscle's natural limit seems to be at 5 cm for many patients, though it can be higher or lower depending on the patient's initial tibia/femur length."
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What Dr Lee had to say regarding athletic recovery with follow up of 100s of LL patients.
"I personally asked Dr. Lee what he thought about this (lengthening past 6 cm) and he has told me that from his experience in talking to former lengthening patients (2-3 years post recovery) those that only lengthened 5 cm recovered fully and their previous athleticism returned close to 100% to pre-LL levels. On the other hand, those who chose to lengthen between 6 and 7 centimeters recovered 100% in performing daily functions (walking, light jogging, etc), BUT only recovered about 60-70% of their pre-LL athleticism when engaging in serious sports/strenuous activities (full sprinting, jumping, basketball, rugby,etc..). Additionally, those that lengthened beyond 7 cm saw an ever greater decline in their previous athletic abilities.
In short, those who lengthen beyond 5 cm will not be able to recover all of their pre-LL athletic abilities because their muscles, nerves, tendons will be stretched well beyond their natural limits and will be permanently damaged. He used the rubber band analogy and Dr. Lee believes strongly in this. Once a rubber band (muscle) is stretched beyond its natural limit, even if its by only half a centimeter, then it will begin to tear and will forever lose its previous elasticity. The muscle's natural limit seems to be at 5 cm for many patients, though it can be higher or lower depending on the patient's initial tibia/femur length."
This should be the wake up call to those who want to do 15 cm...
@THeuprising: How did you contact him may I ask? I might consider him as my second option after Guichet.
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Quote was from Walk6 diary on old forum.
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The muscle will lose it's function if you stretch apart too much the miosin and actin filaments. That's why the rubber band analogy is correct. Only question is does the max safe distance between the two filaments is the same in a 170cm tall guy and a 165cm tall guy
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One thing I'm very curious to know is how much longer, exactly, do tibias take to heal compared to femurs? I'd also like to know if tibia consolidation time is a direct linear function of how much you lengthen (I was told by one doctor that it's not, and that tibias just straight up take pretty long, even if you lengthen a small amount like I want to). Dr. Paley said to me that he thinks I could be walking unaided from internal tibias after about 3-4 months (but I'm thinking more like 4 months) for 3cm - which is really all I want at this point.
Also, has it been proven if there's anything we can take that might speed up consolidation time? I'm curious to know if anyone has anecdotal evidence, even.
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One thing I'm very curious to know is how much longer, exactly, do tibias take to heal compared to femurs? I'd also like to know if tibia consolidation time is a direct linear function of how much you lengthen (I was told by one doctor that it's not, and that tibias just straight up take pretty long, even if you lengthen a small amount like I want to). Dr. Paley said to me that he thinks I could be walking unaided from internal tibias after about 3-4 months (but I'm thinking more like 4 months) for 3cm - which is really all I want at this point.
Also, has it been proven if there's anything we can take that might speed up consolidation time? I'm curious to know if anyone has anecdotal evidence, even.
internal for tibias? Bad bad
Yes usually tibia grows 25% slower than femur. You might expect to walk unaided > amount of cm. e.g. if you plan to lengthen 5cm, expect 5 to 6 months in frame/nails
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internal for tibias? Bad bad
Yes usually tibia grows 25% slower than femur. You might expect to walk unaided > amount of cm. e.g. if you plan to lengthen 5cm, expect 5 to 6 months in frame/nails
Why do you say that? I've spoken to Paley, and he said internals for tibias are safe with the right doctors (and I trust Paley). Dr. Catagni also does internals (precice) for tibias. I think Catagni said I'd have to be in frames for like at least 4 months for 3cms. I might have misread his email, or he might have answered for 5-6cm. I just want 3cm more so I can be (a proportionate) 176 ish.
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yellow spike, you have lenghten right? how is it now?
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yellow spike, you have lenghten right? how is it now?
I did 7cm on femurs (166 to 173). My evening height is usually right around 173 (sometimes a mm or two above or below). But never have I gone below 5'8" since I've mostly fixed my duckass by now.
I want to be at least 175-176. Will have to suck it up and do tibias, but trying to figure out the least suckiest way possible to get those 3cm added to my tibias and be done with this sh*t forever. Not stopping until I get it 8)
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Why do you say that? I've spoken to Paley, and he said internals for tibias are safe with the right doctors (and I trust Paley). Dr. Catagni also does internals (precice) for tibias. I think Catagni said I'd have to be in frames for like at least 4 months for 3cms. I might have misread his email, or he might have answered for 5-6cm. I just want 3cm more so I can be (a proportionate) 176 ish.
It is kinda a fact that internal nails on tibias may cause permanent knee pain. See Dr Pili explantion of downside of internal method:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2804.0
You can also find some similar statement on the old forum diaries where people did internal tibias saying they have knee pain after a few years.
Why not ilizarov frame? It is THE SAFEST (yes ask everyone) method of lengthening, and it takes 4 months which is not too bad.
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It is kinda a fact that internal nails on tibias may cause permanent knee pain. See Dr Pili explantion of downside of internal method:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2804.0
You can also find some similar statement on the old forum diaries where people did internal tibias
Why not ilizarov frame? It is THE SAFEST (yes ask everyone) method of lengthening, and it takes 4 months which is not too bad.
Hm sorry, but I hold the externals to be outdated at this point. Sure they are cheaper, but compared to the relative ease and comfort (more comfort) of the internal nails. It'd say they are much better. Of course, will preface this by saying that you'd have to go with a doctor like Paley to obtain those great results.
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I personally dont mind the discomfort during the procedure itself... I prefer to have a though lengthening and consolidation but in the end getting out of it like I entered. I noticed that atleast with kids and young adults, the external methods are being used while the internal ones are being completely neglected. Also, the fact that the externals exist much longer, means that there is much more experience with them.
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Hm sorry, but I hold the externals to be outdated at this point. Sure they are cheaper, but compared to the relative ease and comfort (more comfort) of the internal nails. It'd say they are much better. Of course, will preface this by saying that you'd have to go with a doctor like Paley to obtain those great results.
No they are not. Comfort wise of course internals are better. But external methods usually have:
-Less complication (internal nails rust, fat embolism, nail bending, internal infection)
-External infection
And ilizarov frame is really good at correcting deformity and always weight bearing (Albizia nails like Guichet or Betzbone does it too, but PRECISE and others do not)
There are even new external methods like monorails being developed to serve the purpose to take advantage of benefits of external methods (although they are not very good)
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I personally dont mind the discomfort during the procedure itself... I prefer to have a though lengthening and consolidation but in the end getting out of it like I entered.
Completely agree with this. I was all for internals at first, but then I see people struggling with recovery for over a year which defeats the purpose. Then you have to have additional surgery to have the nail removed and hope and pray that you won't need correction surgery afterwards.
Internals are definitely the way to go for femurs, but tibias should be purely external(no lon or latn) with a good doctor and aftercare. If you want this surgery bad enough, you should be willing to sacrifice the time required to get the best possible recovery. Fck instant gratification!
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Internals are definitely the way to go for femurs, but tibias should be purely external(no lon or latn) with a good doctor and aftercare. If you want this surgery bad enough, you should be willing to sacrifice the time required to get the best possible recovery. Fck instant gratification!
Would it change your opinion on internal tibias to win a small fortune of 100k for Paley?
Most people willing to have the surgery do not care about the 'best possible recovery.' They just want to be taller. Examples are people still going to certain doctors in India or Serbia.
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There's no argument that externals are better than internals for complications and deformities. In my opinion, that's where it ends.
Something members here don't talk about is the psychological downsides to having externals. You have to wear that hunk of metal for a long time, often holing yourself in for an entire year, and having carry significantly more scars. Dunno bout you, but it takes a different breed of person to do externals and come out ok--I am not one of them. I've noticed many of the external patients having to start a 'new life', whereas many of the internal guys are significantly more positive.
Internals have increased comfort, better recovery when done right, and it allows you to feel normal. The feeling normal part is sooo important. At month 2, I was comfortable with the general public seeing me hobble around on a walker/crutches. The other day I was able to do some fine dining with my doc and another patient without having to feel like people are staring or judging. For me that feeling is priceless.
For these reasons, I can only recommend internals for LL. It's worth saving for, even if you have to do it in your 30s. Now one can have internals done for ~50k to Western standards. Anyone can do this... save 1k each month for 4 years. For determined post-grads, you can do this surgery at 26 or 27.
Cheers
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Would it change your opinion on internal tibias to win a small fortune of 100k for Paley?
Right now?......probably not. I'm following IamReady's diary, and I feel bad for the struggles the guy has gone through. Also based on other Paley's patient observations while at Homewood, it is mostly the tibia patients that have problems with Paley. So my opinion is not based on money alone, it's about getting taller and being able to enjoy it afterwards.
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Why didn´t anyone mention LATP? This is the best option for tibial lengthening imo. You can get rid of the frames fairly quickly and you do not ruin your knees for the rest of your life by splitting them twice, it´s also fully wheight bearing and a lot cheaper than internals.
You can hide the scars by (mostly) removing them with a laser , in combination with hairy legs this shouldn´t be too difficult I guess.
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The only reason I'm considering internal tibias is because Dr. Paley said they're safe in the hands of the right doctors. Dr. Catagni said the same.
I would do externals if I didn't have to be in frames for months for just 3cm. Obviously I still need to think about all of this. LATN/LON are options too.
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Why didn´t anyone mention LATP? This is the best option for tibial lengthening imo. You can get rid of the frames fairly quickly and you do not ruin your knees for the rest of your life by splitting them twice, it´s also fully wheight bearing and a lot cheaper than internals.
You can hide the scars by (mostly) removing them with a laser , in combination with hairy legs this shouldn´t be too difficult I guess.
Something is not quite right about this method, probably has to do with severe infection complications and gangrene. Although I hear that dr shah likes to do this technique.
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Dr Birkholtz and the Dr. who practices in Instanbul (forgot the name) both offer it, If there is no obvious drawback I don´t see why you would ruin your knee when you can have plates inserted instead.
The only thing I know is that plating is often used when there is a complicated fracture on the tibias to keep everything in place and allow wheight bearing, so I assume it works for LL as well.
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There's no argument that externals are better than internals for complications and deformities. In my opinion, that's where it ends.
Something members here don't talk about is the psychological downsides to having externals. You have to wear that hunk of metal for a long time, often holing yourself in for an entire year, and having carry significantly more scars. Dunno bout you, but it takes a different breed of person to do externals and come out ok--I am not one of them. I've noticed many of the external patients having to start a 'new life', whereas many of the internal guys are significantly more positive.
Internals have increased comfort, better recovery when done right, and it allows you to feel normal. The feeling normal part is sooo important. At month 2, I was comfortable with the general public seeing me hobble around on a walker/crutches. The other day I was able to do some fine dining with my doc and another patient without having to feel like people are staring or judging. For me that feeling is priceless.
For these reasons, I can only recommend internals for LL. It's worth saving for, even if you have to do it in your 30s. Now one can have internals done for ~50k to Western standards. Anyone can do this... save 1k each month for 4 years. For determined post-grads, you can do this surgery at 26 or 27.
Cheers
How do you know they have better recovery if you still haven't recovered yet (I believe you are still lengthening/consolidating?) ? Yes... It's a psychological burden to have those frames on for a year... But if you dont go crazy with the amount lengthened, I dont see why it should be a problem... It depends on the doc you go to. As I said in an earlier post, I dont mind the difficulty of the lengthening itself.. All I care is the result... And frankly? I haven't seen even a single good result with internals (femurs or tibial for that matter)
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Why didn´t anyone mention LATP? This is the best option for tibial lengthening imo. You can get rid of the frames fairly quickly and you do not ruin your knees for the rest of your life by splitting them twice, it´s also fully wheight bearing and a lot cheaper than internals.
You can hide the scars by (mostly) removing them with a laser , in combination with hairy legs this shouldn´t be too difficult I guess.
I asked Dr Birkholtz and he said the same knee issues are present in LATP as are in LON. He prefers that method for misalignment issues but for healthy legs he said his preference is still LON
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How do you know they have better recovery if you still haven't recovered yet (I believe you are still lengthening/consolidating?) ? Yes... It's a psychological burden to have those frames on for a year... But if you dont go crazy with the amount lengthened, I dont see why it should be a problem... It depends on the doc you go to. As I said in an earlier post, I dont mind the difficulty of the lengthening itself.. All I care is the result... And frankly? I haven't seen even a single good result with internals (femurs or tibial for that matter)
shyshy is good... others... hm...
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On the old forum old forum , Andrewshizzles and OldieButGoldie both posted videos of them jogging/running and even skiing. I would count that as complete recovery. Both did internal femurs (Andrew up to 9cm) with Betz.
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On the old forum old forum , Andrewshizzles and OldieButGoldie both posted videos of them jogging/running and even skiing. I would count that as complete recovery. Both did internal femurs (Andrew up to 9cm) with Betz.
I feel like I'll be able to run fine as soon as I either get the nails out or at least have the left screw on my left hip adjusted (which Dr. G said he'd do if I chose to lengthen femurs a bit more and leave the rods in for the time being). Aside from that, i've recovered pretty well with no real complications (I'd say I'm 90% recovered, including athletic ability).
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I feel like I'll be able to run fine as soon as I either get the nails out or at least have the left screw on my left hip adjusted (which Dr. G said he'd do if I chose to lengthen femurs a bit more and leave the rods in for the time being). Aside from that, i've recovered pretty well with no real complications (I'd say I'm 90% recovered, including athletic ability).
So you can't run right now? How long has it been since you've had the surgery. From my understanding you did ex fix with LON right?
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this is where I have to point something out
we all have different definitions of what 90% is
If I can't run, I'm more at 50% instead of 90%
90% to me is that I can do EVERYTHING I could do before, and even at a high level... but not quite at the level I was at before.. that is 90% to me
Not being able to run or jump is something I would consider a big issue... I' could never consider myself at 90% if I couldn't do basic things like run easily
this forum warps the mind.... running is made out to be some some super elite athletic task
in the real world, any normal young male should be able to run easily and without thinking about it
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Let me clarify...I AM ABLE TO RUN. And pretty well. Just takes effort at the moment, mainly because of the screw in my left hip. So to me, I am 90%. I think if it weren't for the left screw issue (which causes a lot of pain and weak gluteus medius, which has its own issues), I'd be closer to where I'd like to be. My legs are strong enough and my flexibility is making great strides. But running with a thorn in your side hip (quite literally) is very unpleasant. It's frustrating because I think I'd be able to do it much more easily if not for that.
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But I'll concede, maybe im more like 80%. I feel totally normal and feel like running would be totally effortless (just ran a little while ago) if not for my weak glute medius due to the stupid left screw.
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lots of pain means less than 90% to me, but can't argue if it's good enough for you. We're all different
I just think a lot of members fool themselves into believing they're better than they really are.... I don't think you should get another surgery, and think it would be a huge risk for little reward
breaking your legs for 3 more cm??? I've seen your photos... don't get another surgery,not needed
I am so against this surgery now.... If 1 person doesn't get this surgery because of me, then I've done my job
DON'T DO IT YELLOW
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My legs look much better now because I've bulked them up much more, dude. I should also add...I went skiing two weeks ago. Had to stay on green circles and went slower...but I did it!!
Not sure what I'm doing yet, but im getting those last 3-4cm. And nothing is going to stop me. And I'm gonna be fine. But I'm takin my time, planning, doing my research, and will pick another great doctor. I'd never go to India or to a doctor without a proven track record. Not for this.
* Edit - I did blue squares too when I went skiing and I was fine. Main issue is that I had to watch my speed and certain movements where the left screw issue acts up.
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BTW, you can also do a double osteotomy (Catagni and Pili do them). It means that you will lengthen 1-1.5mm a day which will shorten your lengthening period. I know that they assess the possibility of doing it based on your stats during the consultation. After the lengthening period you can go back to your home country with the frames on (some people do it) and go back later to remove them.
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ll warps the mind
yellow, you seem like an intelligent fellow
you just said you're in a lot of pain because of this surgery, and you're telling us you're going to rebreak your legs to gain 3 cm no matter what?
I know you think the pain issue will be resolved, but surely a more logical thing would be to think.. I wanna get 3 cm, but I'm still not recovered yet, and am in pain, so if it doesn't get much better, I'll just accept my current height of 5'8
getting another surgery is almost assuredly a mistake, even if it turns out okay
5'8 is an ok height.... getting both legs broken is a big deal... especially when it's an elective surgery, and one is 5'8... and already had the same surgery yet it didn't fix the height neurosis
I made a mistake getting this surgery, and will fix my issues... but I accept it was an error... fixing my issues won't absolve my past errors
Even after I'm ok... I'm not sure I'll be thinking that my ll surgery was positive
You can't get the time back that was wasted having two broken legs... or the money that was spent
anyone that is worrying about athletic recovery should avoid this surgery... be happy you have both your legs, and can live a normal life
being short is not even close to being the worst problem you can have
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And one last thing on my assessment of my own recovery. When I say 80-90%, I'm factoring in that my running would likely be effortless if not for the left screw issue. The pain has improved greatly, as ive forced myself to work through it. But my legs feel strong and my flexibility has gotten a lot better as I've worked on it a lot more recently. I am diligent, and with the amount of work i put in, with no real major issues, I am confident I'll get to where I need to be.
I think considering that I did this sh*t all on my own, started working while still clicking and was one of the unlucky Guichet patients that got the left screw hip pain, I've done pretty well, at least average.
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ll warps the mind
yellow, you seem like an intelligent fellow
you just said you're in a lot of pain because of this surgery, and you're telling us you're going to rebreak your legs to gain 3 cm no matter what?
I know you think the pain issue will be resolved, but surely a more logical thing would be to think.. I wanna get 3 cm, but I'm still not recovered yet, and am in pain, so if it doesn't get much better, I'll just accept my current height of 5'8
getting another surgery is almost assuredly a mistake, even if it turns out okay
5'8 is an ok height.... getting both legs broken is a big deal... especially when it's an elective surgery, and one is 5'8... and already had the same surgery yet it didn't fix the height neurosis
I made a mistake getting this surgery, and will fix my issues... but I accept it was an error... fixing my issues won't absolve my past errors
Even after I'm ok... I'm not sure I'll be thinking that my ll surgery was positive
You can't get the time back that was wasted having two broken legs... or the money that was spent
anyone that is worrying about athletic recovery should avoid this surgery... be happy you have both your legs, and can live a normal life
being short is not even close to being the worst problem you can have
I'll respond to this more in detail later. I only want an inch more and am confident I could recover quite well if I do it right and carefully. My height neurosis isn't gone because 5'8" is still bad for where I live and my career.
Will add more thoughts later. I don't disagree entirely with what you say.
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btw
I don't know what this means, but I can touch my toes with both legs straight
Guess my flexibility is ok... but my left leg is just about dead
nerve damage
arthritis in my ankle... achilles wrecked.... bone hurts, back of the leg hurts... limp,
disaster
Ill challenge you to a sprint after I get this left leg fixed
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I did 7cm on femurs (166 to 173). My evening height is usually right around 173 (sometimes a mm or two above or below). But never have I gone below 5'8" since I've mostly fixed my duckass by now.
I want to be at least 175-176. Will have to suck it up and do tibias, but trying to figure out the least suckiest way possible to get those 3cm added to my tibias and be done with this sh*t forever. Not stopping until I get it 8)
Is your explosiveness still as before or worst? I saw videos of people who ve done 7 cms running (sweden, Shyshy). It did give me a feeling that the surgery did decreased their explosiveness. What do you say about this?
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I'm focusing on my athletic abilities more than ever now that I can decently walk. At my age I want to be able to do more than just walk around. My main issue is dorsiflexion. I'll probably inquire about nail removal this summer, and if my dorsiflexion is still ty, possibly for a tendon lengthening as well.
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polycrates. what did you lengthen? how
many cm and which doctor did you do it -and is it ok to know your age?
thanks
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tibia 6cm external lon 27 yo
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how is your recovery? polycrates
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tibia 6cm external lon 27 yo
That's exactly what I want to do.
Do you have a diary posted? How has your recovery been, any knee pain?
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ll warps the mind
yellow, you seem like an intelligent fellow
you just said you're in a lot of pain because of this surgery, and you're telling us you're going to rebreak your legs to gain 3 cm no matter what?
I know you think the pain issue will be resolved, but surely a more logical thing would be to think.. I wanna get 3 cm, but I'm still not recovered yet, and am in pain, so if it doesn't get much better, I'll just accept my current height of 5'8
getting another surgery is almost assuredly a mistake, even if it turns out okay
5'8 is an ok height.... getting both legs broken is a big deal... especially when it's an elective surgery, and one is 5'8... and already had the same surgery yet it didn't fix the height neurosis
I made a mistake getting this surgery, and will fix my issues... but I accept it was an error... fixing my issues won't absolve my past errors
Even after I'm ok... I'm not sure I'll be thinking that my ll surgery was positive
You can't get the time back that was wasted having two broken legs... or the money that was spent
anyone that is worrying about athletic recovery should avoid this surgery... be happy you have both your legs, and can live a normal life
being short is not even close to being the worst problem you can have
I agree with most of what you said. And I concede that I should probably change my stance to "if I make a full recovery from this, I'll see how I feel then, then decide." That is a better way to look at it.
I just know myself very well. I never do things half-assed and never stop short of my goals. I still want to be at least a solid 5'9". That's really all I want now. Ideally, I'd want 5'10", but tibia lengthening is slower and riskier, so I'll just take an extra inch (which DOES make a difference, just not as huge as what I just did). I thought 5'8" would make me happy, but I feel like I told myself that because that was what I could realistically get to with one surgery. I'd cream my pants to be 5'10", but will happily take 5'9" (better proportions and less time). I can see how 5'9" is really a threshold...I feel like I'm just short of blending in (height wise).
The only pain I really have now is from the stupid left screw in my hip area. That should resolve when it comes out. This summer, I'm going to see Dr. G and Dr. Catagni (same trip). I'll probably have the screw adjusted at that time (want to leave the rods in a big longer just to be extra safe).
Besides the left screw, my only general issues (from having a sitting job) are hip and quad tightness, but I've been trying to stretch more and more, and it helps. And the slight pain in my right knee has been improving with stretching.
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Most of your strength in the legs is in the quadriceps muscles, so it's my opinion that if lengthening on either segment is done within a reasonable amount, femur lengthening will have a bigger impact on athletic performance than tibia lengthening, despite tibiae taking longer to heal.
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Other than my left leg being far worse off than the right (it had some nerve complications due to surgeon) and my crappy dorsiflexion, I am decently recovered. I was elated to be able to walk relatively normal that I gave up stretching too much about a year ago. Now that I want to commence exercise I got a rude awakening when I found out how limited my ankle mobility is. It's not even the minimum suggested for normal activity.
When I stand 13cm away from a wall and touch the wall with my knee, the heel comes up about an inch and a half on each leg when it should be flat, so that's what I need to work on. I am extremely worried I'll never overcome that amount because I can only stretch so much in one day and I just can't see my muscles and tendons stretching out yet another 2 inches from what they've already have had to stretch to.
At least for equinus it could be worked on by simply standing and walking, improving dorsiflexion to a normal range is painstakingly difficult. I will spend 5 or 6 months to see how much I can improved, but I may opt for a tendon release. I would rather have a weakened tendon that'll allow me normal mobility to run and workout than to have tightness for the rest of my life that confines me to brisk walking forever.
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That's exactly what I want to do.
Do you have a diary posted? How has your recovery been, any knee pain?
What's up with everyone wanting to do LON? Isn't it a known fact LON (or any internal tibias) can cause permanent knee pain?
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any nailing will likely cause pain
I have it now in my left tibia
also, kneeling on a hard surface with my left leg is awful
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How much did you lengthen Poly and with who?
What's up with everyone wanting to do LON? Isn't it a known fact LON (or any internal tibias) can cause permanent knee pain?
Because you can do the whole process and after 3 months go recover somewhere comfortable. It is more of a timing issue, I'm seriously considering LATP however. I just need to know how bad the scars will be
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How much did you lengthen Poly and with who?
Because you can do the whole process and after 3 months go recover somewhere comfortable. It is more of a timing issue, I'm seriously considering LATP however. I just need to know how bad the scars will be
I am not understanding people here. You wanna trade a whole life of pain for a few months in frame. And you are worrying about scars instead of breaking your bone and inserting nails inside? I thought I was nuts.
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I am not understanding people here. You wanna trade a whole life of pain for a few months in frame. And you are worrying about scars instead of breaking your bone and inserting nails inside? I thought I was nuts.
Yes it doesn't make sense from my point of view either.....maybe it's because we live in Canada, eh?
Long term recovery should be everyone's main goal, but for some reason people here seem to be in a rush and take on higher risk by turning this procedure more invasive than it already is.
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Yes it doesn't make sense from my point of view either.....maybe it's because we live in Canada, eh?
Long term recovery should be everyone's main goal, but for some reason people here seem to be in a rush and take on higher risk by turning this procedure more invasive than it already is.
I laughed at "eh". How do you know I live in Canada?
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Do people who lengthen their femurs have permanent issues with activities like sprinting? The longer the femurs, the longer the strides, but the femurs become weaker and less flexible after surgery, right? Those who lengthen their tibias seem to have endurance problems, while people who lengthen their femurs seem to have problems with explosive movements. Maybe lengthening only your tibias by 4-5 cm would be good if you want to be able to sprint well in the future?
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Hi. You say if one does 5 cm one can regain 100% of athletic ability. Do you mean 5cm on each bone or just 5 cm in general?
I want to do 4 cm on each bone(tibia and femur). Will I be able to be athletic again? thank you
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Hi. You say if one does 5 cm one can regain 100% of athletic ability. Do you mean 5cm on each bone or just 5 cm in general?
I want to do 4 cm on each bone(tibia and femur). Will I be able to be athletic again? thank you
No.
And we said it thousand of times here so read more carefully.
Noone will be the same after LL and this becomes worse if he does both segments even if he lengthens sensibly.
Accept that you'll lose at least a 10% of you functionality or forget about LL.
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This entire discussion is silly unless you practice sports on a professional level, which I'm sure almost no one here does.
"You won't be able to reach 100% of your athletic potential" Who in here ever had to give them all in an athletic competition? The easier answer would be:
No, you won't be able to reach the athletic capability you had before, which is irrelevant since you most likely never had to give your all in sports anyway, therefore you won't be able to tell the difference from you pre-LL best and post-LL best (considering your lengthening and recovery goes well).