Limb Lengthening Forum
Community Hangout => Off Topic => Topic started by: Knik on April 07, 2016, 10:29:23 AM
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I know where it comes from
for most people, whether online or IRL 5'9 is small
but internet has negative consequences, because I feel that it has created an interest for height that did not exist before and pages full is created just for that (celebheights for celebrities, tallswag with all the girls who claim to feel small at 6' , the creator claims to be 6'6 but i have some doubt she dont look that tall- https://www.facebook.com/tallswag, all bodybuilding and sports website, etc.)
I say I'm 5'9 to my friends (although I avoided answering such questions)
when I'm out I feel in the middle and I rarely see girls do my height and almost never pass me and many guys have my height
DiCaprio is no more than 5'11 and perfect
you know why your complex? And for some, you managed to surpass?
I think in my case the best solution would be simply return to reality, log out of internet and avoid falling on such sites where everyone claims to 6'8 (with a lot of liars I think because I rarely see guys at this height and never for a girls) / it's the same for sport where everyone is tall (see Lucia Fresco, Google says she is 6'5)
Internet makes us see our height as a handicap for everything: sports, self-esteem, beauty, elegance, etc.
but it is far from the case
Balzac was a small man and he accomplished more things than any giant of his time
I think I will do one LL and I will be happy for sure if I avoid this kind of site
a real 6'3/5 guy (192 cm) is that : http://www.noelshack.com/2016-12-1458915038-geant.jpg
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5 9 is not small. my cousin went to england with me five yrs ago. he is average there even 5 9. real 5 9. not added one inch. many people lie their height. i am with my classmate and he say he is 170 cm but we are same height. that was two yr ago when i am not yet conscious to my height. i am a real 166 two yr ago and grew 1 cm last year. many people add 3 cm to height
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5 9 is not small. my cousin went to england with me five yrs ago. he is average there even 5 9. real 5 9. not added one inch. many people lie their height. i am with my classmate and he say he is 170 cm but we are same height. that was two yr ago when i am not yet conscious to my height. i am a real 166 two yr ago and grew 1 cm last year. many people add 3 cm to height
I know that
when my father says my family my real height everyone thinks I was taller
Models and sportsmen lies too
https://www.instagram.com/p/BCopjt7tQjr/?hl=fr this girl claims to be 6'5 (if she's i have to hide me because his friends have a similar height and guys are like 5 inches taller)
People lies so I do it too and when I'm with this pretend 6'2 6'3 they know they're not so tall
IRL i see a lot of 5'5 5'6 guys but in Internet I dont see it except here and I see more 6'5 guys than 5'6 (in Internet
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5'7"-5'8" is very gray area. It's hit or miss. 5'8" is meh at best. 5'9" and up, you start to really blend in to the point where your height is just seen as normal, and no one will think twice about it. At 5'10" and up, you're safe entirely. The end.
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I'm 5'7.5 but I was always the shortest or second shortest kid in my classes growing up (late growth spurt). I also have small/narrow bones so I don't look thick and massive like some short guys. I'm also not remotely good looking.
The combination has created problems for me in getting positive female attention the way my peers always have and that has made me quite insecure about all of my physical parameters. Any that I can realistically "fix" I want to.
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I was 165cm and now about 172.
165 was a hell in life.
Now at my new height my height neurosis is better but i know that im still short.
Know i can see why people of my actual height wants to do the surgery. Its normal because you are in the short side.
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krp1, may i know how is your recovery?is it 95% ? i am 167 and want to be at least 170 cm too
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krp1, may i know how is your recovery?is it 95% ? i am 167 and want to be at least 170 cm too
No. Its not near 95%. I have been an athlete for many years . I dont think that is possible for me to get that condition back.
Look at my diary. What i can do now is walk and go upstairs but not run or jump. Go downstairs without looking weird is not possible yet. This surgery needs a lot of time for recovery.
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I was 165cm and now about 172.
165 was a hell in life.
Now at my new height my height neurosis is better but i know that im still short.
Know i can see why people of my actual height wants to do the surgery. Its normal because you are in the short side.
Yes I'm short I know but not to the point that some say
I saw some here say the average is around 185cm, which means that even with an operation I'd feel small and that kind of comment makes me despair
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I was 165cm and now about 172.
165 was a hell in life.
Now at my new height my height neurosis is better but i know that im still short.
Know i can see why people of my actual height wants to do the surgery. Its normal because you are in the short side.
Yeah...my thoughts exactly. I'm 173 at night, and while it's a great improvement, it's still on the short side. I feel like at 175/176 and above, you might still feel short sometimes, but more often than not, will feel generally average and good about your height.
I want to do external tibias with Dr. Catagni...the only issue is time!!
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Yeah...my thoughts exactly. I'm 173 at night, and while it's a great improvement, it's still on the short side. I feel like at 175/176 and above, you might still feel short sometimes, but more often than not, will feel generally average and good about your height.
I want to do external tibias with Dr. Catagni...the only issue is time!!
we have the same goal / height
How many cm do you want to do ?
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we have the same goal / height
How many cm do you want to do ?
I only want 2.5-3m more. Just want to be a strong 5'9" at night. I genuinely think I'd be happy at that point. I'm sure I'll still feel short a good amount of the time, but I know I'd never be seen as objectively short at that point.
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I only want 2.5-3m more. Just want to be a strong 5'9" at night. I genuinely think I'd be happy at that point. I'm sure I'll still feel short a good amount of the time, but I know I'd never be seen as objectively short at that point.
Catagni says he dont accept people who want to do no more than 5 cm
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Catagni says he dont accept people who want to do no more than 5 cm
He never said that to me when we've corresponded.
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i am 173 at night,
but yeah mine complex actually worsen when i moved to Canada, people here are really taller.
That being said, at 173 i can't really say that mine height have been a Huge handicap , obviously 5'8 does not give me any points..probably..maybe a slight negative.Some women did call me short, but the ones that did were actually just 5'3 or even 5'2 kind of women, Which is so ironic ::)
i think the fact that i could change mine height......when we know we have the power to change something rather than live with it.
it's hard to get over LL. i think starting height is less of an issue, knowing that we can do something about it really affects the decision making process.
i wish to be 5'10 - 5'11 . i feel that even an inch have a difference, i was wearing boots the other day mine housemate at mine eye level was already looking upwards to me
currently still in the process of saving up to afford a good doc, do it once do it good !!
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It honestly seems like half of the members here live in the Dinaric Alps to say 5'9 is short. I've seen comments like that on multiple threads. At least they seem to have diminished in frequency with the years.
Outside of some very specific countries and social circles (White North American/German/British/etc college students), why would anyone feel short at 175cm? To post that in forums where most members started out under 165cm (5'5), and just wanting to have a normal life after breaking their legs, is absurd... By the way, I'm not directing this at you, Theophilo. I have just been reading some old threads and this kind of mentality doesn't help anyone here.
It's one thing if you have BDD at 175~180cm, and it's another to say that's short to the members here.
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Come from germany there's definitely girls above 5'7 - 5'8 depends a lot on origin country. In my opinion anything above 5'10 is acceptable. I don't care about this anymore since I'm 6ft now but I always felt really short under 5'10
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Come from germany there's definitely girls above 5'7 - 5'8 depends a lot on origin country. In my opinion anything above 5'10 is acceptable. I don't care about this anymore since I'm 6ft now but I always felt really short under 5'10
You want to tell me you grew in less than a year 12-13cm? at 17? Yeah... Very believeble
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I was 174.5 fixed my poor posture which gave 2 inches... I had bad Kyphosis and was growing around 4cm.
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I was 174.5 fixed my poor posture which gave 2 inches... I had bad Kyphosis and was growing around 4cm.
I think you have it wrong with the conversion.. Like anyone who is from Europe...
You were basically 5'8.7 grew to almost 5'11.
How tall are you in cm now?
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I'm slightly above 182.5cm
BTW im 18 now
But if anyone says he feels short at 5'10 I can't understand didn't saw taller girls at that height...
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So you grew 2-3cm in a year. That is more logical considering your age.
You sure had a horrible posture if you lost 5cm approx because of forward head posture... Just by solving that you surely look much better.
Now just work on your body (sport/lifting) and you are set for life
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So you grew 2-3cm in a year. That is more logical considering your age.
You sure had a horrible posture if you lost 5cm approx because of forward head posture... Just by solving that you surely look much better.
Now just work on your body (sport/lifting) and you are set for life
Yeah I mentioned that also in one of my previous posts I think. That's exactly what I do now once you hit about 5'10 no one cares about your height sure there are some girls that prefer taller guys but if they just reject you because you're 5'10 they're not gonna worth it. My growth plates are still open but I don't care if I'm done with growing now. One thing I want to add a lot of girls think I'm atleast 6'1 so guessing it's because guys tends to add some inches to their height
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Yeah I mentioned that also in one of my previous posts I think. That's exactly what I do now once you hit about 5'10 no one cares about your height sure there are some girls that prefer taller guys but if they just reject you because you're 5'10 they're not gonna worth it. My growth plates are still open but I don't care if I'm done with growing now. One thing I want to add a lot of girls think I'm atleast 6'1 so guessing it's because guys tends to add some inches to their height
Yep. I am 171-172 an I get called 175-180 ( I was actually called 180cm tall a few times) all the time. No one thinks I am as tall as my real height.
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My reason : Internet. Also I know that with only one LL I would be taller than 90 % or more women that I see outside (at least in my shoes)
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My reason? The reality.
1.70-1.75 is not enough for most of men as they still face problems on dating.
The real question is why some people over 1.78-80 want to do LL, not why an 1.70 (5.7) man wants it as 1.70 is just a slight more than the average height of women so it is still not enough for most of men to feel ok.
At least this is the way I see it.
If I was taller than 1.78 I wouldn't do LL. But now at 1.74 evening height my height is still a drawback at dating and I see it every day in my life.
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My reason? The reality.
1.70-1.75 is not enough for most of men as they still face problems on dating.
The real question is why some people over 1.78-80 want to do LL, not why an 1.70 (5.7) man wants it as 1.70 is just a slight more than the average height of women so it is still not enough for most of men to feel ok.
At least this is the way I see it.
If I was taller than 1.78 I wouldn't do LL. But now at 1.74 evening height my height is still a drawback at dating and I see it every day in my life.
I know very well this 1.78 feeling. This is really strange. We are almost at the same height and I'm constantly thinking that 1.78 is the threshold too. 1.75 is okay, not short but 1.78 would be the end of all problems. I'm 1.77-1.76.7 when I wake up and 1.75-1.74,5 before sleep. Especially in the morning, I'm almost 1.78 but I still want to be 1.78. I don't know why I think it is all psychological. When you know "I'm 1.75" you automatically think that it is not that good but when know you are 1.78 you feel completely fine. But I guess that is wrong. For example, when I wear 3cm shoes I'm 1.78 and when I go to the college still there are lots of guys taller than me and I still question my height. The difference of 3 cm is not that much and with thick-soled shoes, we are completely fine at 1.75 I guess.
Also, it would be great to do another LL to be 1.80-1.81 (let's be safe and do 5 or 6 on femurs) but when I think about my torso, my short arms, the money for femurs and the time don't worth it.
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Come from germany there's definitely girls above 5'7 - 5'8 depends a lot on origin country. In my opinion anything above 5'10 is acceptable. I don't care about this anymore since I'm 6ft now but I always felt really short under 5'10
That's because those are women from some of the tallest countries in the world. At 175cm/5'9, you'll be taller than the majority of women in the streets, even in those countries, and even if only by a few centimeters. 5'9 can't, by definition, be short, that being the case. Posts like "In my opinion anything above 5'10 is acceptable" only serve to feed into the height dysphoria of the majority of the members here, the most part who are 5'6 and below. In my opinion, anything above 6'1 is acceptable, as then you'll finally stop having problems not feeling tall compared to the women of the Dinaric Alps.
I know very well this 1.78 feeling. This is really strange. We are almost at the same height and I'm constantly thinking that 1.78 is the threshold too. 1.75 is okay, not short but 1.78 would be the end of all problems. I'm 1.77-1.76.7 when I wake up and 1.75-1.74,5 before sleep. Especially in the morning, I'm almost 1.78 but I still want to be 1.78. I don't know why I think it is all psychological. When you know "I'm 1.75" you automatically think that it is not that good but when know you are 1.78 you feel completely fine. But I guess that is wrong. For example, when I wear 3cm shoes I'm 1.78 and when I go to the college still there are lots of guys taller than me and I still question my height. The difference of 3 cm is not that much and with thick-soled shoes, we are completely fine at 1.75 I guess.
Also, it would be great to do another LL to be 1.80-1.81 (let's be safe and do 5 or 6 on femurs) but when I think about my torso, my short arms, the money for femurs and the time don't worth it.
Are Turkish males taller now too? 175cm seems like a perfectly good height for the country. Do you still get height dysphoria?
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My reason? The reality.
Your reason: body dysmorphia disorder
Nothing wrong with having it, just admit it and move on. Stop trying to justify it and trying to convince others that its something other than BDD
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Your reason: body dysmorphia disorder
Nothing wrong with having it, just admit it and move on. Stop trying to justify it and trying to convince others that its something other than BDD
Being less than average and think that as a problem is reality, not bdd.
I don't want to comvince anyone, people at about my height know the truth amd thats why the majority of them has a problem with that height which is not bad bad not enough either to feel completely ok.
When I was shorter, like you, I thought that being 1.74-5 would lose all my problems and yes is it a much much better height than 1.68 but still you face problems on dating.
Only after 1.78-80 that kind of problems stop. And this is the harsh reality, not bdd.
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haha turkish average at 175, no way. Turkish average is 5-8
you are overestimating average
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Being less than average and think that as a problem is reality, not bdd.
I don't want to comvince anyone, people at about my height know the truth amd thats why the majority of them has a problem with that height which is not bad bad not enough either to feel completely ok.
When I was shorter, like you, I thought that being 1.74-5 would lose all my problems and yes is it a much much better height than 1.68 but still you face problems on dating.
Only after 1.78-80 that kind of problems stop. And this is the harsh reality, not bdd.
So how much percentage of women would have to not reject you for your height for you to be ok with it? 90%? 100%?
So you are 5'9 and you say you don't have BDD, would you think that someone that is 5'10 and wants to lengthen has BDD?
I mean at 5 feet, one can argue that it is reasonable for a women say she rejects a man for his height. No one would call her overly shallow. But at 5'10 I think that most people will agree that if a women says hes too short then shes just being shallow and unreasonable. I would even say at 5'9.
the literal definition of BDD is "a body-image disorder characterized by persistent and intrusive preoccupations with an imagined or slight defect in one's appearance."
At 5'9 your height disadvantage can be considered minor. But you are still getting LL. This is why I say you have BDD.
Nothing wrong with that. I have BDD too. I am getting LL to get rid of my BDD and move on with my life.
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That's because those are women from some of the tallest countries in the world. At 175cm/5'9, you'll be taller than the majority of women in the streets, even in those countries, and even if only by a few centimeters. 5'9 can't, by definition, be short, that being the case. Posts like "In my opinion anything above 5'10 is acceptable" only serve to feed into the height dysphoria of the majority of the members here, the most part who are 5'6 and below. In my opinion, anything above 6'1 is acceptable, as then you'll finally stop having problems not feeling tall compared to the women of the Dinaric Alps.
Are Turkish males taller now too? 175cm seems like a perfectly good height for the country. Do you still get height dysphoria?
I absolutely agree with you.
I believe the Turkish male average is really somewhere between 1.72-1.74 as the statistics show but it might be higher in big cities like Istanbul also young generation appears to be taller.
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It does not have so much to do with the topic but mann i just saw it to many times today too many times i am really thinking i dont know anymore man saw to many tall guys with pretty girls tall girls short girls average girls while the average or short guys sucked dude just thinking about my prevous life where i thought u need to be gentle u need to be that to let the girl fell in love with u while the short guys thinked just about being loved and loved and the girls gucled at that time spribged from bed to bed being honest it makes me just bummm
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So how much percentage of women would have to not reject you for your height for you to be ok with it? 90%? 100%?
So you are 5'9 and you say you don't have BDD, would you think that someone that is 5'10 and wants to lengthen has BDD?
I mean at 5 feet, one can argue that it is reasonable for a women say she rejects a man for his height. No one would call her overly shallow. But at 5'10 I think that most people will agree that if a women says hes too short then shes just being shallow and unreasonable. I would even say at 5'9.
the literal definition of BDD is "a body-image disorder characterized by persistent and intrusive preoccupations with an imagined or slight defect in one's appearance."
At 5'9 your height disadvantage can be considered minor. But you are still getting LL. This is why I say you have BDD.
Nothing wrong with that. I have BDD too. I am getting LL to get rid of my BDD and move on with my life.
Imo if more than 10-20% max of women reject for one and only specific trait then this trait is a major drawback that must be solved (if it could).
And an 5.9 (5.85 to be more specific as this is my evening height) is being rejected for his height for at least 30-40% of women and for the majority of the other percentage he should be really good to being prefered than an average tall man.
So I insist that I don't have bdd, I just face the reality where being not taller than average makes your dating life much harder than it should.
You don't need to be tall, you just need to be completeley average and a little more to never have any problem with height again.
And for my country that height is 1.78 which trust me, it has a big difference compared to my 1.74 for women.
Believe it or not that almost 2 inches are changing the game between strugling with women due to your height and have almost any woman you want never think again about your height. So yes, hiting a solid 1.80 is really lifechanging amd thats the reality, not a kind of bdd.
It is different to not like your body when it is fine than not like your body when it gives you troubles. The first IS bdd, the second is consciousness.
And my case, as the majority of cases of men less than average height, is clearly the second.
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Imo if more than 10-20% max of women reject for one and only specific trait then this trait is a major drawback that must be solved (if it could).
And an 5.9 (5.85 to be more specific as this is my evening height) is being rejected for his height for at least 30-40% of women and for the majority of the other percentage he should be really good to being prefered than an average tall man.
So I insist that I don't have bdd, I just face the reality where being not taller than average makes your dating life much harder than it should.
You don't need to be tall, you just need to be completeley average and a little more to never have any problem with height again.
And for my country that height is 1.78 which trust me, it has a big difference compared to my 1.74 for women.
Believe it or not that almost 2 inches are changing the game between strugling with women due to your height and have almost any woman you want never think again about your height. So yes, hiting a solid 1.80 is really lifechanging amd thats the reality, not a kind of bdd.
It is different to not like your body when it is fine than not like your body when it gives you troubles. The first IS bdd, the second is consciousness.
And my case, as the majority of cases of men less than average height, is clearly the second.
This is bullsh-it
You're experiencing BDD like all of us.Don't think you're special or different.
BDD is psychological and is almost all caused by an absurd view of society.
You had a perfect functionally body and choose to do LL for achieving social "benefits".Which almost all of users here are seeking it.Not because someone is saying himself at mirror and thinking "what an ugly body"
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I would like to point out that BDD isn't something we all have just because we're on a forum about CLL. A lot of us here could happily live with short stature, but believe that CLL would make life even better.
BDD is debilitating, it's related to OCD (the clinical kind, not the "oh man, I'm so OCD about arranging my movie collection" type of casual OCD). Case in point, a person with BDD will avoid social situations or obsess about their features throughout the day without a break. They may wear clothing to cover up their bodies, get multiple cosmetic surgeries, and still feel miserable. There are people spending hundreds of thousands to look like celebrities, basically other people, so that they feel comfortable in their skin.
This is unlike most people who get surgeries and forget that they ever got it done (like some of our veterans here, along with many who get Botox injections, breast implants, liposuction, hair transplants, etc.). In contrast, BDD is believed to be incurable even with treatment -- you scrutinize the results or move onto a new "problem."
If you're curious, take the test here (http://bddfoundation.org/helping-you/questionnaires-do-i-have-bdd/). You can also take a test in which you can get a personalized reply (https://ocdla.com/bdd-test) from a researcher as well.
I'm not certain but I don't think that Body Builder has BDD. He has strong dislike for short stature and thinks a lot about it, but I doubt he's turning down hanging out with friends because he's afraid that they're going to judge his height, face, bicep size, etc.
Just wanted to share my two cents as to not dilute the weight of real BDD, as is the case for OCD. Let's remember that we have a word just for us, a condition that's a lot milder in comparison: height neurosis. There's a good chance that we all share this one!
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I would like to point out that BDD isn't something we all have just because we're on a forum about CLL. A lot of us here could happily live with short stature, but believe that CLL would make life even better.
BDD is debilitating, it's related to OCD (the clinical kind, not the "oh man, I'm so OCD about arranging my movie collection" type of casual OCD). Case in point, a person with BDD will avoid social situations or obsess about their features throughout the day without a break. They may wear clothing to cover up their bodies, get multiple cosmetic surgeries, and still feel miserable. There are people spending hundreds of thousands to look like celebrities, basically other people, so that they feel comfortable in their skin.
This is unlike most people who get surgeries and forget that they ever got it done (like some of our veterans here, along with many who get Botox injections, breast implants, liposuction, hair transplants, etc.). In contrast, BDD is believed to be incurable even with treatment -- you scrutinize the results or move onto a new "problem."
If you're curious, take the test here (http://bddfoundation.org/helping-you/questionnaires-do-i-have-bdd/). You can also take a test in which you can get a personalized reply (https://ocdla.com/bdd-test) from a researcher as well.
I'm not certain but I don't think that Body Builder has BDD. He has strong dislike for short stature and thinks a lot about it, but I doubt he's turning down hanging out with friends because he's afraid that they're going to judge his height, face, bicep size, etc.
Just wanted to share my two cents as to not dilute the weight of real BDD, as is the case for OCD. Let's remember that we have a word just for us, a condition that's a lot milder in comparison: height neurosis. There's a good chance that we all share this one!
Very well said.
Some people here think that the fact that we don't like our heights due to the problems that cause to our social life (epsecially on dating) mean that we are some crazy weirdos that have bdd and are miserable and hate ourselves.
Thats bs.
I just hated my initial height and still think my current height as a drawback. I am completely ok with myself, I am very social and I like and care a lot about my body amd I don't want to change anything else except from my height, which is still less than average by 3-4 cm.
So only a fool would believe that someone who wants to change something in his appearance, even height which is so extreme but so important too, suffer from bdd.
The fact that we want to fix something in our appearance which is not as good as it should (or as we wanted to be) is healthy and means that we are not delusional or pessimistic but we fight for the best.
The majority of short LLers have not bdd, they have an objective drawback that they want to fix.
Nothing more sensible than that.
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I would like to point out that BDD isn't something we all have just because we're on a forum about CLL. A lot of us here could happily live with short stature, but believe that CLL would make life even better.
BDD is debilitating, it's related to OCD (the clinical kind, not the "oh man, I'm so OCD about arranging my movie collection" type of casual OCD). Case in point, a person with BDD will avoid social situations or obsess about their features throughout the day without a break. They may wear clothing to cover up their bodies, get multiple cosmetic surgeries, and still feel miserable. There are people spending hundreds of thousands to look like celebrities, basically other people, so that they feel comfortable in their skin.
This is unlike most people who get surgeries and forget that they ever got it done (like some of our veterans here, along with many who get Botox injections, breast implants, liposuction, hair transplants, etc.). In contrast, BDD is believed to be incurable even with treatment -- you scrutinize the results or move onto a new "problem."
If you're curious, take the test here (http://bddfoundation.org/helping-you/questionnaires-do-i-have-bdd/). You can also take a test in which you can get a personalized reply (https://ocdla.com/bdd-test) from a researcher as well.
I'm not certain but I don't think that Body Builder has BDD. He has strong dislike for short stature and thinks a lot about it, but I doubt he's turning down hanging out with friends because he's afraid that they're going to judge his height, face, bicep size, etc.
Just wanted to share my two cents as to not dilute the weight of real BDD, as is the case for OCD. Let's remember that we have a word just for us, a condition that's a lot milder in comparison: height neurosis. There's a good chance that we all share this one!
This is more or less accurate.
First, BDD is an overdiagnosed umbrella term that is handed out like candy to everyone who shows up to a psychiatrist's office with a complaint about their looks, which in many cases is justified. Most people who are diagnosed with "BDD" regarding a particular physical feature (facial aesthetics, large nose/ears, baldness, short stature, etc) really ARE unattractive because of that feature.
Actual "BDD" wherein the person's "dysmorphia" is unfounded - i.e. the person actually DOESN'T have the flaw they perceive themselves to - is basically UNHEARD OF.
That isn't the case here. There's nobody on this board who is 6'5", but when they look in the mirror they see a 5'2" guy. The problem people have here is they're 5'5" (for example) and when they look in the mirror they see a guy who's 5'5", and when they go out with their friends or just alone they get treated like a guy who's 5'5" (i.e. like a walking punch line, butt of people's jokes, etc).
The problem with all these "psychology" terms like height neurosis or BDD or whatever is that they take the focus off of HEIGHTISM, which is what is actually causing people to perceive their short stature as a flaw and creating the "neurosis" in the first place. People don't just randomly start hating themselves because of a feature and develop mental illnesses for it. It's OTHER people's treatment of them that causes it.
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People don't just randomly start hating themselves because of a feature and develop mental illnesses for it. It's OTHER people's treatment of them that causes it.
Very true, everything is relative, many of our emotions are reactions to how others perceive us. Some of the most beautiful fashion models have self-image issues since they constantly look at themselves in the mirror and judge each other.
This is also why short people feel better when visiting countries with shorter people -- it's because the environment treats them much better.
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although the environment may play a part, honestly I think a lot of people on this forum just have a really bad victim mentality, and it gets worse when everyone here just encourages it
This place is horrible for your mental health
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although the environment may play a part, honestly I think a lot of people on this forum just have a really bad victim mentality, and it gets worse when everyone here just encourages it
This place is horrible for your mental health
Every person is different, in fact I haven't felt this good in a long time ever since becoming a contributor on the forums. Before I felt defeated, but now that CLL is within reach, I feel very much in control of my future. I no longer feel pinned by my genetics, and it's freeing.
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This is more or less accurate.
First, BDD is an overdiagnosed umbrella term that is handed out like candy to everyone who shows up to a psychiatrist's office with a complaint about their looks, which in many cases is justified. Most people who are diagnosed with "BDD" regarding a particular physical feature (facial aesthetics, large nose/ears, baldness, short stature, etc) really ARE unattractive because of that feature.
Actual "BDD" wherein the person's "dysmorphia" is unfounded - i.e. the person actually DOESN'T have the flaw they perceive themselves to - is basically UNHEARD OF.
That isn't the case here. There's nobody on this board who is 6'5", but when they look in the mirror they see a 5'2" guy. The problem people have here is they're 5'5" (for example) and when they look in the mirror they see a guy who's 5'5", and when they go out with their friends or just alone they get treated like a guy who's 5'5" (i.e. like a walking punch line, butt of people's jokes, etc).
The problem with all these "psychology" terms like height neurosis or BDD or whatever is that they take the focus off of HEIGHTISM, which is what is actually causing people to perceive their short stature as a flaw and creating the "neurosis" in the first place. People don't just randomly start hating themselves because of a feature and develop mental illnesses for it. It's OTHER people's treatment of them that causes it.
This thread was asking about 5'7 and up and not 5'5 and down. I agree with you that 5'5 is rougher than 5'7 though..
It is BDD when you have people 5'9-5'6 complaining that it is impossible to date and those heights (btw reddit short is full of a little below average height people complaining... Much more than shorter people).. I can sympathise with a 5'5 complaining that it is extremely tough to date or to get respect. But not with someone my height of 5'7.5 and up
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My reason is my dad. I'm 6'2", but he is 6'4". I'm tired of him saying that I'm short (which is absurd by any metric other than his own height), and I want to be taller than him.
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My reason is my dad. I'm 6'2", but he is 6'4". I'm tired of him saying that I'm short (which is absurd by any metric other than his own height), and I want to be taller than him.
wow, you're case is DRAMATIC. I advice you 15 cm in each segment to put one full head to your stupid father
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wow, you're case is DRAMATIC. I advice you 15 cm in each segment to put one full head to your stupid father
Will that really be enough? At 217cm, he'll still feel short around the gigantism club.
He should do 25cm in both segments and be done with his BDD once and for all.
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That isn't the case here. There's nobody on this board who is 6'5", but when they look in the mirror they see a 5'2" guy. The problem people have here is they're 5'5" (for example) and when they look in the mirror they see a guy who's 5'5", and when they go out with their friends or just alone they get treated like a guy who's 5'5" (i.e. like a walking punch line, butt of people's jokes, etc).
Isn't this reversed? There are hordes of users here who are short(er) but look in the mirror and see this 6 feet guy. You are, of course, right about the points of a man who's 5'5 and sees that in the mirror. That's someone who wants to solve a problem. However, how can we not say that all the men here who look at themselves in the mirror and don't see their "true selves" isn't partially also BDD? Think of all the comments about what height we were meant to be, the height we actually "feel" like, etc.
I'm not saying a lot of people aren't just looking at a problem and wanting to solve it, but there's also BDD involved for a lot of people here (including myself) - specially all the guys on the taller side of things. The problems their height bring to themselves are more in their heads than anywhere else.
EDIT: Fixed typos.
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To be competitive.
I'm 5'8 (173 cm)
I live in the midwest, think gentrified middle class white communities all college educated 300k or more house. Think beautiful beautiful tall white girls, a model scout would have a hayday here.
The truth of the matter is, everyone in a high status environment (a nightclub, a big city, a large corporation, etc) is 6'+. Physical stature is an extremely important thing, in life, in dating, in being a man. at 5'8, 155 lbs, I'm simply too small of a male to be competitive in these environments. Sure, I can go out and have a good time, I can make it.. 5'8 isn't THAT limited, but let's be honest here and say that whatever speciousness I may possess gets the volume knob turned way down by my height.
And that's just not something I'm okay with in this lifetime. I work very hard. I have a good dating life, I'm very happy with my life.
But the simply fact of the matter is, I'm not competitive. Almost every man in these environments has atleast 3 inches and 30 pounds on me. It's not an insurmountable advantage, it's just not one I am willing to entertain when there's a solution. That's just who I am. I want to live my best life.
I don't think life is fair, and I don't think you should play by the rules. I'm actually a blessed person, I have a lot of good genetics to be thankful for, but that only in-satiates my lust to actualize some of these cosmetic, extra-curricular surgeries and pursuits. Why should I not fulfill my highest potential, if I'm so close to the top? Why should I be an unacceptable height for a certain type of beautiful women when I'm so close to being on her level or above?
I still have tens of thousands of hellos, and nice to meet yous to say. I'm 20. In double my lifetime on this earth, I'll only be a wealthier, stronger, more prime man. I'll probably even still be good looking at 55.
It just doesn't make sense to me, to choose to live an inferior life of being the same size as the beautiful girls you're trying to hook up with, to get girls, but to have them not really care about you and see you as someone valuable enough to pursue, when it's all defeated.. Completely defeated, with 3 inches, 5'11. And that's available to me with only the sacrifice of two years of my 70+ year life. That's just simply not in my nature. I want to be competitive in this lifetime.
I just honestly, all in all, believe in myself. I believe I'm worth it, and that money invested into myself will have great returns. Why shouldn't I pursue this, knowing that? Like I said, I have a lifetime of meeting beautiful like-minded people. I just want to roll up to as young and beautiful as I ever will be. If that's neurotic and narcissistic, it's ok, that's just what I'm going to do with my life. :)
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oops
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To be competitive.
I'm 5'8 (173 cm)
I live in the midwest, think gentrified middle class white communities all college educated 300k or more house. Think beautiful beautiful tall white girls, a model scout would have a hayday here.
The truth of the matter is, everyone in a high status environment (a nightclub, a big city, a large corporation, etc) is 6'+. Physical stature is an extremely important thing, in life, in dating, in being a man. at 5'8, 155 lbs, I'm simply too small of a male to be competitive in these environments. Sure, I can go out and have a good time, I can make it.. 5'8 isn't THAT limited, but let's be honest here and say that whatever speciousness I may possess gets the volume knob turned way down by my height.
And that's just not something I'm okay with in this lifetime. I work very hard. I have a good dating life, I'm very happy with my life.
But the simply fact of the matter is, I'm not competitive. Almost every man in these environments has atleast 3 inches and 30 pounds on me. It's not an insurmountable advantage, it's just not one I am willing to entertain when there's a solution. That's just who I am. I want to live my best life.
I don't think life is fair, and I don't think you should play by the rules. I'm actually a blessed person, I have a lot of good genetics to be thankful for, but that only in-satiates my lust to actualize some of these cosmetic, extra-curricular surgeries and pursuits. Why should I not fulfill my highest potential, if I'm so close to the top? Why should I be an unacceptable height for a certain type of beautiful women when I'm so close to being on her level or above?
I still have tens of thousands of hellos, and nice to meet yous to say. I'm 20. In double my lifetime on this earth, I'll only be a wealthier, stronger, more prime man. I'll probably even still be good looking at 55.
It just doesn't make sense to me, to choose to live an inferior life of being the same size as the beautiful girls you're trying to hook up with, to get girls, but to have them not really care about you and see you as someone valuable enough to pursue, when it's all defeated.. Completely defeated, with 3 inches, 5'11. And that's available to me with only the sacrifice of two years of my 70+ year life. That's just simply not in my nature. I want to be competitive in this lifetime.
I just honestly, all in all, believe in myself. I believe I'm worth it, and that money invested into myself will have great returns. Why shouldn't I pursue this, knowing that? Like I said, I have a lifetime of meeting beautiful like-minded people. I just want to roll up to as young and beautiful as I ever will be. If that's neurotic and narcissistic, it's ok, that's just what I'm going to do with my life. :)
Height doesn't matter that much if at 6 feet (or close to it) you're still giving off an aura of incredible, obnoxious narcissism. Just saying.
And someone tell Bill Gates he's excluded from the high status environments because he's not 6 feet. :(
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Height doesn't matter that much if at 6 feet (or close to it) you're still giving off an aura of incredible, obnoxious narcissism. Just saying.
And someone tell Bill Gates he's excluded from the high status environments because he's not 6 feet. :(
You asked, I answered.
Don't be upset with me because I spoke powerfully and you couldn't relate to it.
The world isn't a fair place. Taller, better looking, narcissistic people will always have a better time than you, and they'll ignore you while they do it. So look to compete young man. There's men are willing to fk, and men women want to fk, and it's in your best interest to become the latter.
But all in all, everything is cool my man. I hope you have a good day. It's a silly measure at the end of the day, and not so serious. All will be ok either way.
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To be competitive.
I'm 5'8 (173 cm)
I live in the midwest, think gentrified middle class white communities all college educated 300k or more house. Think beautiful beautiful tall white girls, a model scout would have a hayday here.
The truth of the matter is, everyone in a high status environment (a nightclub, a big city, a large corporation, etc) is 6'+. Physical stature is an extremely important thing, in life, in dating, in being a man. at 5'8, 155 lbs, I'm simply too small of a male to be competitive in these environments. Sure, I can go out and have a good time, I can make it.. 5'8 isn't THAT limited, but let's be honest here and say that whatever speciousness I may possess gets the volume knob turned way down by my height.
And that's just not something I'm okay with in this lifetime. I work very hard. I have a good dating life, I'm very happy with my life.
But the simply fact of the matter is, I'm not competitive. Almost every man in these environments has atleast 3 inches and 30 pounds on me. It's not an insurmountable advantage, it's just not one I am willing to entertain when there's a solution. That's just who I am. I want to live my best life.
I don't think life is fair, and I don't think you should play by the rules. I'm actually a blessed person, I have a lot of good genetics to be thankful for, but that only in-satiates my lust to actualize some of these cosmetic, extra-curricular surgeries and pursuits. Why should I not fulfill my highest potential, if I'm so close to the top? Why should I be an unacceptable height for a certain type of beautiful women when I'm so close to being on her level or above?
I still have tens of thousands of hellos, and nice to meet yous to say. I'm 20. In double my lifetime on this earth, I'll only be a wealthier, stronger, more prime man. I'll probably even still be good looking at 55.
It just doesn't make sense to me, to choose to live an inferior life of being the same size as the beautiful girls you're trying to hook up with, to get girls, but to have them not really care about you and see you as someone valuable enough to pursue, when it's all defeated.. Completely defeated, with 3 inches, 5'11. And that's available to me with only the sacrifice of two years of my 70+ year life. That's just simply not in my nature. I want to be competitive in this lifetime.
I just honestly, all in all, believe in myself. I believe I'm worth it, and that money invested into myself will have great returns. Why shouldn't I pursue this, knowing that? Like I said, I have a lifetime of meeting beautiful like-minded people. I just want to roll up to as young and beautiful as I ever will be. If that's neurotic and narcissistic, it's ok, that's just what I'm going to do with my life. :)
Good points.
I see it the same as you although my height was much worse than yours and I am just a bit taller than you after my first LL.
Now I feel normal but still not good enough to live as I 2ant to live and have the successes I want, especially on dating.
With another LL that I plan to do in maybe less than 2 years from now I'l become as you say "competitive" to all the men even of the top looks.
Anyway, well said.
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The world isn't a fair place. Taller, better looking, narcissistic people will always have a better time than you, and they'll ignore you while they do it. So look to compete young man. There's men are willing to fk, and men women want to fk, and it's in your best interest to become the latter.
That's a little ridiculous. Good-looking people do not all have the dream lives you imagine them to have. They can suffer from depression, anxiety, uncertainty and catastrophic events just like regular people. A lot of women can still find shorter guys attractive, especially if they are "only" 5'8'' like you are. And the hottest girls aren't a million times better than average looking women. Like, sxx with an 8/10 isn't twice as good as sxx with a 4/10, that's not how it works (I personally don't use these number ratings, but you get what I mean).
Every successful person in the Midwest is tall? Even if that is true, it's different in different places, such as California, which, as some posters here have confirmed, is a great place for shorter guys, because of its ethnic diversity. People like Mark Zuckerberg aren't tall and have made it. I mean, I totally get where you're coming from, height has advantages and makes many things easier, but you take it way too far. It's understandable, you're very young, and it takes time to see the nuances....or not.
LL is an option, no denying that. But it carries huge risks and costs, not simply "it takes 2 years of my life and that's the only sacrifice" as you seem to believe, you can potentially cripple yourself and suffer pain for the rest of your life. Even if you go to the most expensive doctor available - look up the diary of Unicorn. If you feel "towered and dominated" by 6 feet dudes, just imagine how dominated you would feel if you knew they could beat you up and outrun you at any moment, because you have the mobility and physical condition of a 60+ year old. That might not happen, you might do fine after LL, but you might also not. Like I said, it's an option and you're free to do it. But think, think for a very long time.
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And someone tell Bill Gates he's excluded from the high status environments because he's not 6 feet. :(
Of course, you don't get excluded from high status environments simply for being short. But it is easier to access and navigate such environments if you are over 6 feet.
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You asked, I answered.
Don't be upset with me because I spoke powerfully and you couldn't relate to it.
The world isn't a fair place. Taller, better looking, narcissistic people will always have a better time than you, and they'll ignore you while they do it. So look to compete young man. There's men are willing to fk, and men women want to fk, and it's in your best interest to become the latter.
But all in all, everything is cool my man. I hope you have a good day. It's a silly measure at the end of the day, and not so serious. All will be ok either way.
It wasn't about what you said; I was merely giving you a serious tip for the future.
Of course, you don't get excluded from high status environments simply for being short. But it is easier to access and navigate such environments if you are over 6 feet.
Heightism culture in the US is absolutely insane if people truly take this to heart. There are loads of successful American CEOs of Indian, Latino and East Asian background who aren't 6 feet. The most immediate examples of huge American CEOs that come to my mind, Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg, and Satya Nadella aren't even in the 180cms tall. In fact, Jeff and Zuckerberg are 5'7, and Satya is 5'9.
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Heightism culture in the US is absolutely insane if people truly take this to heart. There are loads of successful American CEOs of Indian, Latino and East Asian background who aren't 6 feet. The most immediate examples of huge American CEOs that come to my mind, Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg, and Satya Nadella aren't even in the 180cms tall. In fact, Jeff and Zuckerberg are 5'7, and Satya is 5'9.
No one is denying what you are saying. Yes, Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world, and he's only 5'7". But he would have gotten there sooner if he was tall.
Let me put it another way. If you were going to be making a business presentation before Jeff Bezos and other Amazon bigwigs, would you want to be 6'2" and Bezos be 5'7' or the other way around? Of course, you would want to be the 6'2" guy if you had the choice. And Bezos would want the reverse if he had the choice.
I don't think life is fair, and I don't think you should play by the rules. I'm actually a blessed person, I have a lot of good genetics to be thankful for, but that only in-satiates my lust to actualize some of these cosmetic, extra-curricular surgeries and pursuits. Why should I not fulfill my highest potential, if I'm so close to the top? Why should I be an unacceptable height for a certain type of beautiful women when I'm so close to being on her level or above?
There is no reason that you (or me or anyone) should not reach our highest potential, especially if we are so close to the top. My height isn't quite as bad as yours, but I totally understand becuae I'm in a similar place.
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That's a little ridiculous. Good-looking people do not all have the dream lives you imagine them to have. They can suffer from depression, anxiety, uncertainty and catastrophic events just like regular people. A lot of women can still find shorter guys attractive, especially if they are "only" 5'8'' like you are. And the hottest girls aren't a million times better than average looking women. Like, sxx with an 8/10 isn't twice as good as sxx with a 4/10, that's not how it works (I personally don't use these number ratings, but you get what I mean).
Every successful person in the Midwest is tall? Even if that is true, it's different in different places, such as California, which, as some posters here have confirmed, is a great place for shorter guys, because of its ethnic diversity. People like Mark Zuckerberg aren't tall and have made it. I mean, I totally get where you're coming from, height has advantages and makes many things easier, but you take it way too far. It's understandable, you're very young, and it takes time to see the nuances....or not.
LL is an option, no denying that. But it carries huge risks and costs, not simply "it takes 2 years of my life and that's the only sacrifice" as you seem to believe, you can potentially cripple yourself and suffer pain for the rest of your life. Even if you go to the most expensive doctor available - look up the diary of Unicorn. If you feel "towered and dominated" by 6 feet dudes, just imagine how dominated you would feel if you knew they could beat you up and outrun you at any moment, because you have the mobility and physical condition of a 60+ year old. That might not happen, you might do fine after LL, but you might also not. Like I said, it's an option and you're free to do it. But think, think for a very long time.
Having sex with an 8/10 woman is not 2 times better than doing it with a 4/10 woman, it is 100 times better.
To be more specific, having sex with a 4/10 woman is not even good most of the times for a man that respects himself and has good looks.
So no, being beautiful for a woman is much important and makes a huge differemce to be with a real good looking womam compared to a just average one.
For ugly women I don't care as I can't be attracted to them at all.
The same happens with the majority of women and really short men.
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Having sxx with an 8/10 woman is not 2 times better than doing it with a 4/10 woman, it is 100 times better.
This is one of the rare cases where I agree with you not 100% but 100000%.
Aside from that, you don't have to be a 10 in order to sleep with a 10. Nor do you need to be an 8 to sleep with an 8+.
You need to look good enough. For each women it is different.
If you are a really short man (5'5 and below) it will be very hard. If you are a little below average (bodybuilder's original height), and you have the looks, you will be able to sleep with hot cheeks no prob.
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If someone sex requirements towards women end at only looking good then i feel sorry for you lmao
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This is one of the rare cases where I agree with you not 100% but 100000%.
Aside from that, you don't have to be a 10 in order to sleep with a 10. Nor do you need to be an 8 to sleep with an 8+.
You need to look good enough. For each women it is different.
If you are a really short man (5'5 and below) it will be very hard. If you are a little below average (bodybuilder's original height), and you have the looks, you will be able to sleep with hot cheeks no prob.
My original height was 1.68.
I think you mean my current height which is 1.75 (both morning heights) which is still not enough for the majority of really hot women unless you are rich and/or famous.
But yes, at my current height I can date some good looking women who I wouldn't at my initial height.
If I hit 1.80 I am sure that my pool date will be really large considering I am generally above average looking.
But I'll write my experiences when I'll do it.
For now I can only talk about the heights I've been and I am now.
Yourspaceboyfriend, attraction is the most important thing in dating and yes, a very good looking woman, unless she is dumb or have killer insticts, is what every man wants.
Not the only thing (apearance) but the most important, at least for me and the men I know.
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My original height was 1.68.
I think you mean my current height which is 1.75 (both morning heights) which is still not enough for the majority of really hot women unless you are rich and/or famous.
But yes, at my current height I can date some good looking women who I wouldn't at my initial height.
If I hit 1.80 I am sure that my pool date will be really large considering I am generally above average looking.
But I'll write my experiences when I'll do it.
For now I can only talk about the heights I've been and I am now.
Yourspaceboyfriend, attraction is the most important thing in dating and yes, a very good looking woman, unless she is dumb or have killer insticts, is what every man wants.
Not the only thing (apearance) but the most important, at least for me and the men I know.
No. I meant that at your past height you could date hot women but it was harder than your current height. At your height I see no difficulty
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No. I meant that at your past height you could date hot women but it was harder than your current height. At your height I see no difficulty
No Tibike.
At 1.68 is almost impossible to date hot women and while I had 2 really gorgeous gfs it happened because we were teens (the first I have her when I was not even 18 and the same her, for 3 years and the other one when I was 20 and she was 18 for 3 years again). If they were lets say 25yo they would never looked at an 1.68 man and even if they dud they would have been the veey rare minority.
At 1.74 (which I am most of the day) is still hard to be with a very good looking woman.
My current gf is about 6.5/10 and I like her but she can't match model looking girls I see everyday with tall men who most of the times have average looks (face and body) but they are just tall and with better than average style.
Anyway I've written all these before and my opinion is clear.
If it would have been easy to date the women I want at my height I wouldn't wanted another LL. But when many women are not attracted to me because I am not tall enough and moat of the good looking women I see everyday are with taller than average guys, things are obvious for me.
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Yourspaceboyfriend, attraction is the most important thing in dating and yes, a very good looking woman, unless she is dumb or have killer insticts, is what every man wants.
Not the only thing (apearance) but the most important, at least for me and the men I know.
Meh, even the hottest chick can easly lose in the eyes due to her character.
Unless you aim for the drunken whores at the clubs then well... STDs are just not my cup of tea.
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Meh, even the hottest chick can easly lose in the eyes due to her character.
Unless you aim for the drunken whores at the clubs then well... STDs are just not my cup of tea.
You are not even an adult so your opinion about women means not much to an almost 30yo man like me who is enough experienced to know some things more about women than the average guy.
When you are at least 25 yo I'd take your opinion much more seriously. And I am sure that your opinion about what women want and not will be very different from now.
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You are not even an adult so your opinion about women means not much to an almost 30yo man like me who is enough experienced to know some things more about women than the average guy.
And?
Doe im not surprised you have such opinions, with your way of thinkin its hard to find any type of woman except the one you are describing lol
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If someone sxx requirements towards women end at only looking good then i feel sorry for you lmao
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm looking for more than looks. In fact, I'm looking for the total package. That includes looks but not exclusively so. I believe that I am at a place that with sufficient work I can actually get 9/10 or 10/10 women who has everything else going on for themselves in addition to looks.
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My complex is mostly psychological, self esteem based, and jealousy. I probably have a touch of BDD and the main reason I hate my height is that I think it's unfair that tall guys are happier and that girls love them and give them the Bambi eyes.
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No Tibike.
At 1.68 is almost impossible to date hot women and while I had 2 really gorgeous gfs it happened because we were teens (the first I have her when I was not even 18 and the same her, for 3 years and the other one when I was 20 and she was 18 for 3 years again). If they were lets say 25yo they would never looked at an 1.68 man and even if they dud they would have been the veey rare minority.
At 1.74 (which I am most of the day) is still hard to be with a very good looking woman.
My current gf is about 6.5/10 and I like her but she can't match model looking girls I see everyday with tall men who most of the times have average looks (face and body) but they are just tall and with better than average style.
Anyway I've written all these before and my opinion is clear.
If it would have been easy to date the women I want at my height I wouldn't wanted another LL. But when many women are not attracted to me because I am not tall enough and moat of the good looking women I see everyday are with taller than average guys, things are obvious for me.
Hard to be with a very attractive women at 174cm? sorry but that sounds unlikely. At 174cm your height is pretty much irrelevant and facial features will be the most important. Do you really believe a 180cm average looking man has advantage over a 174cm good looking man?
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Hard to be with a very attractive women at 174cm? sorry but that sounds unlikely. At 174cm your height is pretty much irrelevant and facial features will be the most important. Do you really believe a 180cm average looking man has advantage over a 174cm good looking man?
Of course I believe it.
1.74 is not enough for many women who can't look past that no matter how attractive face you have.
And for the other you must be really good looking to not be bothered with your height.
On the other hand, the vast majority of women are more than ok with an 1.80+ man with avwrage face and a good style.
After all the majority of men I see everyday with good looking women have average face at best but they are tall and have some nice clothes. As simple as that.
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Of course I believe it.
1.74 is not enough for many women who can't look past that no matter how attractive face you have.
And for the other you must be really good looking to not be bothered with your height.
On the other hand, the vast majority of women are more than ok with an 1.80+ man with avwrage face and a good style.
After all the majority of men I see everyday with good looking women have average face at best but they are tall and have some nice clothes. As simple as that.
I live in one of the tallest countries in the world and with a height of 175cm and a good looking face - height is not the problem if you have trouble getting girls. I see ~175cm guys with hot girls everyday.
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If your having trouble getting girls at 175+ you really need to stop and think about what your doing wrong. Good looking guy at that age and with a good career, personality, style will not have any trouble with gorgeous woman! I was 165 good looking, style, personality, truck. Ofcourse getting the prettest girl in the room was a challenge if the girl was taller than me but there where plenty of other good looking girls my height or slighter taller than me that i had no problem with. Stop putting the problem on height. Yes height will make it easier but if you work a little harder you can still achieve great things. Im married now and my wife is gorgeous! Sheis 5’3 and with heels shes slightly taller than me. Im only doing this to improve my overall apearance and be slighly taller than her. Trying to get to 180cm is rediculous. You dont need that much height
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Isn't this reversed? There are hordes of users here who are short(er) but look in the mirror and see this 6 feet guy. You are, of course, right about the points of a man who's 5'5 and sees that in the mirror. That's someone who wants to solve a problem. However, how can we not say that all the men here who look at themselves in the mirror and don't see their "true selves" isn't partially also BDD? Think of all the comments about what height we were meant to be, the height we actually "feel" like, etc.
I'm not saying a lot of people aren't just looking at a problem and wanting to solve it, but there's also BDD involved for a lot of people here (including myself) - specially all the guys on the taller side of things. The problems their height bring to themselves are more in their heads than anywhere else.
EDIT: Fixed typos.
No, there isn't. And no, it isn't "reversed". There aren't "hordes of users who are shorter but look in the mirror and see this 6 feet guy". You're playing with words.
When I made that comparison to a man who's 6'0"+, but looks in the mirror and sees a 5'2" guy, I was speaking from a literal point of view. "BDD" is a form of psychosis. Very often, it involves actual hallucinations - as in, your brain is actually parsing the information it is passed by the optic nerves in your eyes in a way that does not reflect reality.
What you're talking about - this statement
Think of all the comments about what height we were meant to be, the height we actually "feel" like, etc.
is not a case of hallucinogenic psychosis. When someone says "I should have been/was meant to be tall", or "I feel like I'm tall", what they're actually saying is "I deserve to be treated the way tall people are treated". It expresses a sense of
1) dissatisfaction with their current state of being
2) entitlement to a better state of being
not a disconnect from reality. The type of person you are describing doesn't have "Body Dysmorphic Disorder" any more than a poor man who says "I was meant to be rich" has "Financial Dysmorphic Disorder" or some loser average Joe who says "I feel like I should be getting mobbed by screaming fans like movie stars do" has "Social Status Dysmorphic Disorder".
Again, actual "body dysmorphic disorder", if and when it manifests itself, does so spontaneously and as a result of some kind of cerebral malfunction - not because a person was bullied, humiliated, disparaged, and otherwise discriminated against until they eventually developed a complex, self-hate issues, low self-esteem, etc, which is what happens to short people because of heightism, ugly people because of lookism, colored people because of racism, and so on.
If you're on this site or other height-increase sites because you got bullied, mocked, humiliated, or rejected by your family, peers, potential romantic partners, etc because of your stature, you DON'T have "body dysmorphic disorder". The problem isn't "in their head". The problem is the way people treat them, and the reason people treat them that way is their height.
So if anything, the problem is PHYSICAL, not mental. That's why no amount of "therapy", antidepressants, or any other dumb copes will help once you've ended up on this site. There are only 2 possible genuine SOLUTIONS to the problem these people have
1) Radically change society literally overnight so that it worships short people the way it does tall people, or at least stops the profound, deep-seated discrimination and oppression of short people
2) Stop being short
Speaking realistically, 1) isn't going to happen. Heightism, lookism, and other -ism forms of discrimination aren't going anywhere in the lifetime of anyone posting on this board now (in my opinion they will never stop existing period, but that's beside the point). So that just leaves 2), and that's where this surgery comes in, and where other treatments for short stature should come in.
Heightism and lookism especially aren't going anywhere. Because both of these are largely MEN'S problems (which is not to say there are no women who are victims of heightism or lookism, only that it is rarer for their lives to be so blighted by these things that they end up on sites like this), outside of boards like this one, nobody is willing to even entertain that these forms of discrimination exist, let alone acknowledge their prevalence - hell, even on this very board they're downplayed by posters like you, who refuse to acknowledge the true scope of their influence in society and just how widespread and noxious they really are and repeatedly try to portray things as "not being so bad".
Nobody else is going to change. Things aren't going to "get better" on their own. Paying some patronizing clown who calls himself a "doctor" $120/hr to pretend to be your friend, spout platitudes at you, write you a prescription for prozac and send you on your merry way isn't going to make things better. Pulling the covers over your eyes and telling yourself it's not so bad isn't going to make things better. The only thing anyone here can do is change themselves PHYSICALLY so the discrimination stops and they can move on, or do whatever it is they want to do with their lives. Whether it's fair or not that they have to do so is irrelevant. That's reality.
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Trying to get to 180cm is rediculous. You dont need that much height
While being tall isn't absolutely necessary to get women, it can help (like many other things) so trying to get to 5'11"/180cm or taller is not ridiculous. Becoming tall also has lots of other benefits outside of getting women. That's why it's wrong to say that someone doesn't "need" that much height.
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If your having trouble getting girls at 175+ you really need to stop and think about what your doing wrong. Good looking guy at that age and with a good career, personality, style will not have any trouble with gorgeous woman! I was 165 good looking, style, personality, truck. Ofcourse getting the prettest girl in the room was a challenge if the girl was taller than me but there where plenty of other good looking girls my height or slighter taller than me that i had no problem with. Stop putting the problem on height. Yes height will make it easier but if you work a little harder you can still achieve great things. Im married now and my wife is gorgeous! Sheis 5’3 and with heels shes slightly taller than me. Im only doing this to improve my overall apearance and be slighly taller than her. Trying to get to 180cm is rediculous. You dont need that much height
"Stop 'putting the problem on height' [sic], but also I'm going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on leg lengthening surgery, because my 5'3" wife towers me in heels and that's a problem."
- You
Lmfao. Go back to r/short.
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No, there isn't. And no, it isn't "reversed". There aren't "hordes of users who are shorter but look in the mirror and see this 6 feet guy". You're playing with words.
When I made that comparison to a man who's 6'0"+, but looks in the mirror and sees a 5'2" guy, I was speaking from a literal point of view. "BDD" is a form of psychosis. Very often, it involves actual hallucinations - as in, your brain is actually parsing the information it is passed by the optic nerves in your eyes in a way that does not reflect reality.
What you're talking about - this statement
is not a case of hallucinogenic psychosis. When someone says "I should have been/was meant to be tall", or "I feel like I'm tall", what they're actually saying is "I deserve to be treated the way tall people are treated". It expresses a sense of
1) dissatisfaction with their current state of being
2) entitlement to a better state of being
not a disconnect from reality. The type of person you are describing doesn't have "Body Dysmorphic Disorder" any more than a poor man who says "I was meant to be rich" has "Financial Dysmorphic Disorder" or some loser average Joe who says "I feel like I should be getting mobbed by screaming fans like movie stars do" has "Social Status Dysmorphic Disorder".
Again, actual "body dysmorphic disorder", if and when it manifests itself, does so spontaneously and as a result of some kind of cerebral malfunction - not because a person was bullied, humiliated, disparaged, and otherwise discriminated against until they eventually developed a complex, self-hate issues, low self-esteem, etc, which is what happens to short people because of heightism, ugly people because of lookism, colored people because of racism, and so on.
If you're on this site or other height-increase sites because you got bullied, mocked, humiliated, or rejected by your family, peers, potential romantic partners, etc because of your stature, you DON'T have "body dysmorphic disorder". The problem isn't "in their head". The problem is the way people treat them, and the reason people treat them that way is their height.
So if anything, the problem is PHYSICAL, not mental. That's why no amount of "therapy", antidepressants, or any other dumb copes will help once you've ended up on this site. There are only 2 possible genuine SOLUTIONS to the problem these people have
1) Radically change society literally overnight so that it worships short people the way it does tall people, or at least stops the profound, deep-seated discrimination and oppression of short people
2) Stop being short
Speaking realistically, 1) isn't going to happen. Heightism, lookism, and other -ism forms of discrimination aren't going anywhere in the lifetime of anyone posting on this board now (in my opinion they will never stop existing period, but that's beside the point). So that just leaves 2), and that's where this surgery comes in, and where other treatments for short stature should come in.
Heightism and lookism especially aren't going anywhere. Because both of these are largely MEN'S problems (which is not to say there are no women who are victims of heightism or lookism, only that it is rarer for their lives to be so blighted by these things that they end up on sites like this), outside of boards like this one, nobody is willing to even entertain that these forms of discrimination exist, let alone acknowledge their prevalence - hell, even on this very board they're downplayed by posters like you, who refuse to acknowledge the true scope of their influence in society and just how widespread and noxious they really are and repeatedly try to portray things as "not being so bad".
Nobody else is going to change. Things aren't going to "get better" on their own. Paying some patronizing clown who calls himself a "doctor" $120/hr to pretend to be your friend, spout platitudes at you, write you a prescription for prozac and send you on your merry way isn't going to make things better. Pulling the covers over your eyes and telling yourself it's not so bad isn't going to make things better. The only thing anyone here can do is change themselves PHYSICALLY so the discrimination stops and they can move on, or do whatever it is they want to do with their lives. Whether it's fair or not that they have to do so is irrelevant. That's reality.
Dam bro who hurt you?
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Dam bro who hurt you?
Given that you're here on this site too, I'd say it's probably the same people who hurt you.
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Given that you're here on this site too, I'd say it's probably the same people who hurt you.
I doubt I am as traumatized as you friend
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"Stop 'putting the problem on height' [sic], but also I'm going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on leg lengthening surgery, because my 5'3" wife towers me in heels and that's a problem."
- You
Lmfao. Go back to r/short.
I said dating and finding pretty woman has nothing to do with height you moron. The reason for me to do this surgery was for aesthitic reasons as clothes fit better if im a little taller and ill look better in comparison next to my wife. Simply saying if i was average height like all my male family 5’7 and up ( im the shortest at 5’5) then i wouldve never thought to do this surgery. Go get yourself a wack a mole to bash on homie instead of trying to bash on me.
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If your having trouble getting girls at 175+ you really need to stop and think about what your doing wrong. Good looking guy at that age and with a good career, personality, style will not have any trouble with gorgeous woman! I was 165 good looking, style, personality, truck. Ofcourse getting the prettest girl in the room was a challenge if the girl was taller than me but there where plenty of other good looking girls my height or slighter taller than me that i had no problem with. Stop putting the problem on height. Yes height will make it easier but if you work a little harder you can still achieve great things. Im married now and my wife is gorgeous! Sheis 5’3 and with heels shes slightly taller than me. Im only doing this to improve my overall apearance and be slighly taller than her. Trying to get to 180cm is rediculous. You dont need that much height
You need.
At 1.65 you were doomed. The thing that you found a good looking woman means nothing, even handicapped people could find someone to like them. What matters is how often that happens. And with 1.65 this is very rare.
I had 2 gorgeous gfs at 1.68 but for the vast majority of girls I was invisible. THAT matters for me, how most of women see me, not 10% or less.
At almost 1.75 many women are ok with my height (just ok) and about the other half are not. That is unacceptable for me and makes my dating life much harder than it should taking in mind that I have a nice face, a great age for a man, muscles and a more than average income.
If I were tall I swear that I could have waay too many girls to choose from while now I have successes but just a little more than the average man, nothing more.
So being above average height is really important for a man. If you are less than that things become harder and if you are less than even 5.7-8 things are almost imoossible.
Thats the reality for me and most men I know that they are short.
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You need.
At 1.65 you were doomed. The thing that you found a good looking woman means nothing, even handicapped people could find someone to like them. What matters is how often that happens. And with 1.65 this is very rare.
I had 2 gorgeous gfs at 1.68 but for the vast majority of girls I was invisible. THAT matters for me, how most of women see me, not 10% or less.
At almost 1.75 many women are ok with my height (just ok) and about the other half are not. That is unacceptable for me and makes my dating life much harder than it should taking in mind that I have a nice face, a great age for a man, muscles and a more than average income.
If I were tall I swear that I could have waay too many girls to choose from while now I have successes but just a little more than the average man, nothing more.
So being above average height is really important for a man. If you are less than that things become harder and if you are less than even 5.7-8 things are almost imoossible.
Thats the reality for me and most men I know that they are short.
Fair enough, but that doesn't really sound like a problem. Basically if relating to money, you want to become a millionaire just because you can. Most people life a perfectly happy life with medium wealth.
But i understand you still, its very tempting.
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You need.
I have a nice face, a great age for a man, muscles and a more than average income.
I'm sure you do, but you also have a huuuge need to be validated by random girls.
You know girls can sense insecurity like a bloodhound, and no offense you probably reek of it (as far as your height is concerned). You literally care soooo much about what girls think of you that I can guarantee that they can feel your intense need for female validation when you interact with them (or when you don't interact for fear of being rejected due to your height).
You would be naive to think this didn't play a HUGE part in % of females that "reject" you, but i guess its easier to blame it on something out of your control like height.
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You need.
At 1.65 you were doomed. The thing that you found a good looking woman means nothing, even handicapped people could find someone to like them. What matters is how often that happens. And with 1.65 this is very rare.
I had 2 gorgeous gfs at 1.68 but for the vast majority of girls I was invisible. THAT matters for me, how most of women see me, not 10% or less.
At almost 1.75 many women are ok with my height (just ok) and about the other half are not. That is unacceptable for me and makes my dating life much harder than it should taking in mind that I have a nice face, a great age for a man, muscles and a more than average income.
If I were tall I swear that I could have waay too many girls to choose from while now I have successes but just a little more than the average man, nothing more.
So being above average height is really important for a man. If you are less than that things become harder and if you are less than even 5.7-8 things are almost imoossible.
Thats the reality for me and most men I know that they are short.
Ive never had a problem finding good looking girls. I was 15 going into clubs with fake id just having a good time and ended up hooking up with plenty of girls way older than me and were hot as . Seriously most people complaining bout not getting girls need to work on their social skills. Stop being in denial. Good looks money and “muscles” is not your ticket to getting sexy woman. Its how you approach them. Here ill leave this here for you https://youtu.be/ZpWXV3bSGWI might learn a thing or two.
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I'm sure you do, but you also have a huuuge need to be validated by random girls.
You know girls can sense insecurity like a bloodhound, and no offense you probably reek of it (as far as your height is concerned). You literally care soooo much about what girls think of you that I can guarantee that they can feel your intense need for female validation when you interact with them (or when you don't interact for fear of being rejected due to your height).
You would be naive to think this didn't play a HUGE part in % of females that "reject" you, but i guess its easier to blame it on something out of your control like height.
Couldnt of said it better
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extremis' post
I did mention the taller individuals on this board, though. How do you explain someone who, at 180cm+, is willing to spend thousands of dollars on this barbaric surgery, which will cause them to have permanent pain and problems to do things as simple as going downstairs, if not with some form of a psychological problem in how they see themselves? I'm not a psychiatrist, so I can't dispute whether actual BDD only manifests itself as a form of literal psychosis; I'd need to look that up. However, it's clearly psychological or partially psychological for the people at good heights.
And it's not my intention to downplay the reality of the issues here. I try to provide other viewpoints because the negativity on these forums will only intensify the real problems short men already have to go through, in real life and in their heads, and some here are suicidal or feel suicidal because of their height. It's also a forum, so feel free to keep arguing against my points, if so inclined.
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These are all bull .
I fked tons of 10/10 at 168.
I fked a 178 girl at 168.
Height is important but not that much unless you are dwarf or something.
Nothing will change at 175 if you can not pick up anyone at 170.
Do ll to look better not for getting taller.
Taller is not always better.
A 175 with good proportions will look much better than a 180 with bad proportions.
I look way better than Apotheosis.
Do your ll if you are under 170 if you want then live happy until you die.
There will always be people much taller than you.
Do not find excuses.
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I said dating and finding pretty woman has nothing to do with height you moron. The reason for me to do this surgery was for aesthitic reasons as clothes fit better if im a little taller and ill look better in comparison next to my wife. Simply saying if i was average height like all my male family 5’7 and up ( im the shortest at 5’5) then i wouldve never thought to do this surgery. Go get yourself a wack a mole to bash on homie instead of trying to bash on me.
In other words, you're insecure and have a problem with your height... all the while you're telling others to "stop putting the problem on height". Which is what I was pointing out with my response to you in the first place, but I guess the obvious sarcasm in my post flew clear over your head.
Ive never had a problem finding good looking girls. I was 15 going into clubs with fake id just having a good time and ended up hooking up with plenty of girls way older than me and were hot as . Seriously most people complaining bout not getting girls need to work on their social skills. Stop being in denial. Good looks money and “muscles” is not your ticket to getting sxxy woman. Its how you approach them. Here ill leave this here for you https://youtu.be/ZpWXV3bSGWI might learn a thing or two.
LMAO. This old song and dance again. "It's not your looks or your height or your money, it's your PERSONALITY :))))".
Just LOL @ linking any YouTube video of "picking up" girls. EVERY SINGLE ONE of these videos is either staged/scripted or cherrypicks the cases where girls actually agree to "date" or do whatever with the man in the video due to being put on the spot, trying to virtue signal in front of the camera, etc. The men in these videos don't take these women home, they don't date them, they don't do ANYTHING with them once the video is over, because the whole point of the video is to be clickbait for gullible people like you, and potentially (in the case of "pickup artists") take their money in exchange for admission to a "bootcamp" where they can learn to "attract" women just like the guy in the video (which obviously doesn't work).
Here, I'll leave this for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFnJMPQow7A&t=180s
Maybe YOU might learn a thing or two. There is no "game". "Personality" does not attract women. Attraction is physical. Scientific studies have demonstrated this.
I'm sure you do, but you also have a huuuge need to be validated by random girls.
You know girls can sense insecurity like a bloodhound, and no offense you probably reek of it (as far as your height is concerned). You literally care soooo much about what girls think of you that I can guarantee that they can feel your intense need for female validation when you interact with them (or when you don't interact for fear of being rejected due to your height).
You would be naive to think this didn't play a HUGE part in % of females that "reject" you, but i guess its easier to blame it on something out of your control like height.
Another idiotic, pathetic, delusional humanist myth. Women do not have some magical "insecurity radar" that detects when someone has low self-esteem.
Even if they did, they would never need to use it, because the reason you aren't able to attract most women as a short man has nothing to do with your personality and everything to do with the fact that they have to tilt their heads down 45 degrees to look you in the eye when they wear heels.
Notice I said most women, not all women. Yes, as some posters on here love to harp on, even as a short man you can still find a few women here and there who will be willing to settle for you if you have a lot of money, are socially well-connected/influential, etc. The fact that a woman is willing to date you doesn't mean a woman is physically attracted to you. It means she's willing to date you. A woman dating or expressing interest in dating a 5'3" famous or rich man doesn't prove that she's attracted to short men. It proves she's attracted to money and status, and is willing to overlook a man being short if he has those things. The video I linked above explains this in depth. It's part of a series.
I did mention the taller individuals on this board, though. How do you explain someone who, at 180cm+, is willing to spend thousands of dollars on this barbaric surgery, which will cause them to have permanent pain and problems to do things as simple as going downstairs, if not with some form of a psychological problem in how they see themselves? I'm not a psychiatrist, so I can't dispute whether actual BDD only manifests itself as a form of literal psychosis; I'd need to look that up. However, it's clearly psychological or partially psychological for the people at good heights.
How do you explain a person in middle management who works 50 hours a week taking on 70+ hours a week of work, massive amounts of stress, compromising their free time and schedules, raising their risk of dying from heart attacks, to get to an executive position?
How do you explain bodybuilders who already have incredible physiques compared to an average person using androgenic anabolic steroids, rHGH, and other compounds, risking HPT axis shutdown, cardiac problems, cancer, etc?
How do you explain models, who are already significantly better than the average person, getting plastic surgery and using pounds of chemical beauty products (both of which have serious risks) to look younger and more attractive?
People are competitive. Some more than others. It would be hard to find someone that does not like the feeling of being "better" than other people in one or more ways. It's not a "psychological illness".
Some people want to be [X] than everyone else they know and are willing to make sacrifices to get there.
Where X can be replaced by "richer", "better looking", "more muscular", "smarter".... "taller".
Some people aren't okay with being "good enough" - they want to be "the best". You don't have the right to say that's a "psychological illness", nor does your saying that make it one, because it isn't one. The only reason you are "put off" by the idea or feel like it's a "mental illness" is because of the big bad boogeyman word: "surgery"
When it comes to self-improvement, people are okay with someone making sacrifices to become rich or doing all sorts of dumb superstitious "spiritual" bullsh*t like going on a retreat to some buddhist monastery in the middle of nowhere where they proceed to starve themselves and live in 3rd world scarcity conditions doing nothing but meditating all day long, but as soon as people hear the term "surgery", then all of a sudden it's a big problem and you need therapy, antidepressants, and all other sorts of bullsh*t copes. It's nothing but idiotic virtue signalling and it needs to stop.
And it's not my intention to downplay the reality of the issues here. I try to provide other viewpoints because the negativity on these forums will only intensify the real problems short men already have to go through, in real life and in their heads, and some here are suicidal or feel suicidal because of their height. It's also a forum, so feel free to keep arguing against my points, if so inclined.
Speaking realistically about the issues short men go through without sugarcoating or coping or cult-like positivity delusions isn't going to "intensify" the problems.
On the contrary, sugarcoating and trying to turn the forum into a circlejerk group therapy forum takes the focus off the forum's actual purpose, which is to discuss methods to LENGTHEN LIMBS (hence the name LIMB LENGTHENING forum). Right now the only reliable method we have is distraction osteogenesis, but this could change in the foreseeable future. I've been researching height increase for years, and I'm confident given many recent advancements in technology, as well as the breakthroughs made by Doctors such as Eben Alsberg and Alexander Teplyashin, that we could realistically see a MUCH better, less invasible, non-crippling solution for limb lengthening within the next 10 years if these people get the support and funding they need.
Again I stress this point, because it's the central reason why I'm always at odds with you (and others who post things like what you do): this isn't a group therapy forum. The focus isn't (and shouldn't be) on circlejerking and coping mechanisms. It should be on finding ways to stop being short. Heightism isn't going to go away no matter how much therapy you get or how many antidepressants/antipsychotics you dope yourself with.
Even if we consider the actual psychological illnesses (depression, suicidal ideation) many short men exhibit, if people are depressed and suicidal because of their height, it's because of the NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES they've had with other people DUE to their height. The solution isn't therapy, pills, coping mechanisms, or dumb "not so bad"-isms. You don't treat an illness by treating the symptoms. You treat the CAUSE of the disease. In this case, the cause is being short. Solve that and the problem will go away.
If not, then I'll repeat the rhetorical question I've asked so many times on this forum: why does no one suggest """therapy""" and pills for transsexuals?
Why is it "body dysmorphic disorder" when a short person wants to increase their height, even if it is at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars and undergoing a barbaric surgery, but when a transsexual wants to do the same thing, it's perfectly okay and their desires should be supported and accepted, not to mention their procedures and hormone therapies funded at taxpayers' expense?
I'll repeat the answer, too: there is no fundamental difference between wanting surgery to increase your height as a short person and wanting to """change your gender""" (which isn't scientifically possible with present technology) as a transsexual except for the fact that due to social justice warrior propaganda, one of them (transsexualism) is acceptable, while the other (limb lengthening) is NOT.
If transsexuals aren't mentally ill, depressed/suicidal short people who want to be taller are not mentally ill either.
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There is no "game". "Personality" does not attract women. Attraction is physical. Scientific studies have demonstrated this.
"Personality" does not attract women this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
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These are all bull .
I fked tons of 10/10 at 168.
No, you "fked" tons of women you thought were 10/10. Unless you were "fking" actual supermodels (as in, career runway models), you weren't anywhere NEAR the "10/10" range.
I fked a 178 girl at 168.
I don't know why you would consider this impressive or feel the need to point this out. I'm starting to think there may be truth to the meme that short men view having sxx with tall women as some kind of "achievement", as if it's a challenge.
News flash: A woman who's 178 cm tall is within the upper 1st percentile of female height, which is NOT a good thing in the least in terms of her sxxual attractiveness to the overwhelming majority of men.
Tall women are VERY often insecure about their height just like short men are, though not to the same extent due to the massive amount of validation women get from men and the ease with which they can secure a sxxual partner despite any physical flaw they have (just boot up Tinder or some other dating app).
The point is, having sxx with a tall woman as a short man isn't impressive. Both parties are undesirable to the majority of the opposite sxx. You're not "proving" anything by saying you had sxx with a tall woman. If you approached her, you are probably the first man to do so in a LONG time. Most men wouldn't want anything to do with a woman who would tower them in the 3-4 inch heels women wear on nights out.
"Personality" does not attract women this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
http://www.psypost.org/2017/03/personality-traits-no-influence-initial-romantic-attraction-study-finds-48362
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/per.2087/abstract
Abstract
We evaluated five competing hypotheses about what predicts romantic interest. Through a half-block quasi-experimental design, a large sample of young adults (i.e. responders; n = 335) viewed videos of opposite-sxx persons (i.e. targets) talking about themselves, and responders rated the targets' traits and their romantic interest in the target. We tested whether similarity, dissimilarity or overall trait levels on mate value, physical attractiveness, life history strategy and the Big Five personality factors predicted romantic interest at zero acquaintance and whether sxx acted as a moderator. We tested the responders' individual perception of the targets' traits, in addition to the targets' own self-reported trait levels and a consensus rating of the targets made by the responders. We used polynomial regression with response surface analysis within multilevel modelling to test support for each of the hypotheses. Results suggest a large sxx difference in trait perception; when women rated men, they agreed in their perception more often than when men rated women. However, as a predictor of romantic interest, there were no sxx differences. Only the responders' perception of the targets' physical attractiveness predicted romantic interest; specifically, responders' who rated the targets' physical attractiveness as higher than themselves reported more romantic interest. Copyright © 2017 European Association of
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40806-017-0092-x
Abstract
Prior research investigating the mate preferences of women and their parents reveals two important findings with regard to physical attractiveness. First, daughters more strongly value mate characteristics connoting genetic quality (such as physical attractiveness) than their parents. Second, both daughters and their parents report valuing characteristics other than physical attractiveness most strongly (e.g., ambition/industriousness, friendliness/kindness). However, the prior research relies solely on self-report to assess daughters’ and parents’ preferences. We assessed mate preferences among 61 daughter-mother pairs using an experimental design varying target men’s physical attractiveness and trait profiles. We tested four hypotheses investigating whether a minimum level of physical attractiveness was a necessity to both women and their mothers and whether physical attractiveness was a more important determinant of dating desirability than trait profiles. These hypotheses were supported. Women and their mothers were strongly influenced by the physical attractiveness of the target men and preferred the attractive and moderately attractive targets. Men with the most desirable personality profiles were rated more favorably than their counterparts only when they were at least moderately attractive.[/u][/b] Unattractive men were never rated as more desirable partners for daughters, even when they possessed the most desirable trait profiles. We conclude that a minimum level of physical attractiveness is a necessity for both women and their mothers and that when women and their parents state that other traits are more important than physical attractiveness, they assume potential mates meet a minimally acceptable standard of physical attractiveness.
Please present your peer-reviewed behavioral analysis studies demonstrating the importance of """personality""" in attracting women?
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In other words, you're insecure and have a problem with your height... all the while you're telling others to "stop putting the problem on height". Which is what I was pointing out with my response to you in the first place, but I guess the obvious sarcasm in my post flew clear over your head.
[/quote]
No im saying stop blaming your height for not bein able to pick up girls. Being taller will not magically have woman on there knees begging to suck your dck. If your wack at 170 youll be wack at 180. Being taller will not solve your daying problems becaeuse at the end of the day yes girls might not reject you for your height but once you start a conversation or try and dance with them lets say at a club and they realize your lame asf and cant even dance they will walk away and go with the shorter guy who is out there killing it on the dance floor and just having a good time instead of worrying about his height and woman turning him down. Sorry if your butthurt and to you this doesnt make sense buddy but i actually had a good dating life at 165. Not just talking about 5-10 woman. More like 35+ Probly more fine ass woman that youll ever have at a 180+ height.
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Extremis may i ask why you are on this forum? Are you trying to justify the fact for you wanting LL but your getting butthurt since your probly already 5’7 or taller and are indenial and just cant believe that its not you the reason for not being able to date good looking woman but bacause of your “height” . There seems to be no other reason or could you elaborate us a little about your self. Height , weight, age. Are you even planning on LL or why are you on this forum?
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No im saying stop blaming your height for not bein able to pick up girls. Being taller will not magically have woman on there knees begging to suck your dck. If your wack at 170 youll be wack at 180. Being taller will not solve your daying problems becaeuse at the end of the day yes girls might not reject you for your height but once you start a conversation or try and dance with them lets say at a club and they realize your lame asf and cant even dance they will walk away and go with the shorter guy who is out there killing it on the dance floor and just having a good time instead of worrying about his height and woman turning him down.
Lmfao
This reads like something a delusional teenager who understands nothing whatsoever about attraction would say. It's surreal to see something so dumb being said unironically. It's like something off a Facebook status.
Sorry if your butthurt and to you this doesnt make sense buddy but i actually had a good dating life at 165. Not just talking about 5-10 woman. More like 35+ Probly more fine ass woman that youll ever have at a 180+ height.
Wow, 35 women?! Amazing! You're a complete slayer.
So what are you doing on this forum?
Oh, right. Your 5'3" wife towers you in heels and you're insecure about it.
Whoops. Guess not even sex with "35+ fine ass woman" [sic] makes you immune to height neurosis, huh?
Extremis may i ask why you are on this forum? Are you trying to justify the fact for you wanting LL but your getting butthurt since your probly already 5’7 or taller and are indenial and just cant believe that its not you the reason for not being able to date good looking woman but bacause of your “height” . There seems to be no other reason or could you elaborate us a little about your self. Height , weight, age. Are you even planning on LL or why are you on this forum?
I'm here because I want to be here. This is a forum for limb lengthening, and I believe it could grow into a large community of short people who want to be taller and are willing to come together as a group so we can support research for new, safer procedures for height increase that don't involve barbaric, athletically crippling distraction osteogenesis. I don't believe we are "50+ years away" from such procedures as Body Builder and some other posters have mentioned in the past, especially given the recent advances in induced pluripotent stem cell production, 3-D bioidentical bone implants, etc.
Even if I didn't have any reason to be here, I don't need your permission to be on this forum, or to be anywhere at all. You're not a mod here, so you don't have the right to tell me otherwise.
I'm not already 5'7", nor do the unsubstantiated claims of a borderline illiterate like you make me "butthurt".
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How do you explain a person in middle management who works 50 hours a week taking on 70+ hours a week of work, massive amounts of stress, compromising their free time and schedules, raising their risk of dying from heart attacks, to get to an executive position?
How do you explain bodybuilders who already have incredible physiques compared to an average person using androgenic anabolic steroids, rHGH, and other compounds, risking HPT axis shutdown, cardiac problems, cancer, etc?
How do you explain models, who are already significantly better than the average person, getting plastic surgery and using pounds of chemical beauty products (both of which have serious risks) to look younger and more attractive?
People are competitive. Some more than others. It would be hard to find someone that does not like the feeling of being "better" than other people in one or more ways. It's not a "psychological illness".
Some people want to be [X] than everyone else they know and are willing to make sacrifices to get there.
Where X can be replaced by "richer", "better looking", "more muscular", "smarter".... "taller".
Some people aren't okay with being "good enough" - they want to be "the best". You don't have the right to say that's a "psychological illness", nor does your saying that make it one, because it isn't one. The only reason you are "put off" by the idea or feel like it's a "mental illness" is because of the big bad boogeyman word: "surgery"
It didn't say it was a psychological illness. I said it was a psychological problem, as it brings them distress. They're distressed for not being a certain height, despite not suffering any discrimination in their daily or dating lives. That's why I characterized it as psychological and a problem.
Also, there are definitely diminishing returns to things like building muscle and being tall. At some point, you're just not netting any social gains by adding more of it - you might even go into the negatives for something like bodybuilding, as deep appreciation for the top BBers is generally limited to that niche; the majority of women don't find guys who are too huge to be more attractive.
On the contrary, sugarcoating and trying to turn the forum into a circlejerk group therapy forum takes the focus off the forum's actual purpose, which is to discuss methods to LENGTHEN LIMBS (hence the name LIMB LENGTHENING forum). Right now the only reliable method we have is distraction osteogenesis, but this could change in the foreseeable future. I've been researching height increase for years, and I'm confident given many recent advancements in technology, as well as the breakthroughs made by Doctors such as Eben Alsberg and Alexander Teplyashin, that we could realistically see a MUCH better, less invasible, non-crippling solution for limb lengthening within the next 10 years if these people get the support and funding they need.
Again I stress this point, because it's the central reason why I'm always at odds with you (and others who post things like what you do): this isn't a group therapy forum. The focus isn't (and shouldn't be) on circlejerking and coping mechanisms. It should be on finding ways to stop being short. Heightism isn't going to go away no matter how much therapy you get or how many antidepressants/antipsychotics you dope yourself with.
I understand where you are coming from because I hate this in other online forums. However, these forums have an off-topic section and I tend to limit my posts like that to this section. Also, regarding possible alternatives to CLL, you should help promote these ideas if you think they merit funding. I had never heard of these two names before reading your post today.
Additionally, please try to understand the other side. Posting all the scientific research that shows how much it sucks being short can be just seen as circlejerking on how much it sucks being short, on a forum where everyone is fully aware of that. I do believe I have illustrated in the past viable, alternative ways for men of shorter stature to find partners (not supermodels) and whatnot. I don't see it as virtue signaling / coping delusions but as just showing it's not all hopeless. Some here are a decade or more away from really doing a surgery like this, and it's not impossible to live without it.
Even if we consider the actual psychological illnesses (depression, suicidal ideation) many short men exhibit, if people are depressed and suicidal because of their height, it's because of the NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES they've had with other people DUE to their height. The solution isn't therapy, pills, coping mechanisms, or dumb "not so bad"-isms. You don't treat an illness by treating the symptoms. You treat the CAUSE of the disease. In this case, the cause is being short. Solve that and the problem will go away.
If not, then I'll repeat the rhetorical question I've asked so many times on this forum: why does no one suggest """therapy""" and pills for transsxxuals?
Why is it "body dysmorphic disorder" when a short person wants to increase their height, even if it is at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars and undergoing a barbaric surgery, but when a transsxxual wants to do the same thing, it's perfectly okay and their desires should be supported and accepted, not to mention their procedures and hormone therapies funded at taxpayers' expense?
I'll repeat the answer, too: there is no fundamental difference between wanting surgery to increase your height as a short person and wanting to """change your gender""" (which isn't scientifically possible with present technology) as a transsxxual except for the fact that due to social justice warrior propaganda, one of them (transsxxualism) is acceptable, while the other (limb lengthening) is NOT.
If transsxxuals aren't mentally ill, depressed/suicidal short people who want to be taller are not mentally ill either.
I agree with your points about this and I do believe any methods of increasing height for short stature in adulthood should be accepted and ideally covered by public healthcare / insurance in a perfect, future world. Height discrimination (i.e. heightism) and height dysphoria are real. As long as it is all done seriously and "treatment" isn't handed out like candy, with checks for height percentiles and whatnot, things would be fine.
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Lmfao
This reads like something a delusional teenager who understands nothing whatsoever about attraction would say. It's surreal to see something so dumb being said unironically. It's like something off a Facebook status.
Wow, 35 women?! Amazing! You're a complete slayer.
So what are you doing on this forum?
Oh, right. Your 5'3" wife towers you in heels and you're insecure about it.
Whoops. Guess not even sxx with "35+ fine ass woman" [sic] makes you immune to height neurosis, huh?
I'm here because I want to be here. This is a forum for limb lengthening, and I believe it could grow into a large community of short people who want to be taller and are willing to come together as a group so we can support research for new, safer procedures for height increase that don't involve barbaric, athletically crippling distraction osteogenesis. I don't believe we are "50+ years away" from such procedures as Body Builder and some other posters have mentioned in the past, especially given the recent advances in induced pluripotent stem cell production, 3-D bioidentical bone implants, etc.
Even if I didn't have any reason to be here, I don't need your permission to be on this forum, or to be anywhere at all. You're not a mod here, so you don't have the right to tell me otherwise.
I'm not already 5'7", nor do the unsubstantiated claims of a borderline illiterate like you make me "butthurt".
So in other words your short and are praying that a “new procedure” to grow taller pops up. Keep waiting buddy. Meanwhile ill be growing while your on your labtop trying to bully people lol
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It didn't say it was a psychological illness. I said it was a psychological problem, as it brings them distress. They're distressed for not being a certain height, despite not suffering any discrimination in their daily or dating lives. That's why I characterized it as psychological and a problem.
Also, there are definitely diminishing returns to things like building muscle and being tall. At some point, you're just not netting any social gains by adding more of it - you might even go into the negatives for something like bodybuilding, as deep appreciation for the top BBers is generally limited to that niche; the majority of women don't find guys who are too huge to be more attractive.
"Diminishing returns" in terms of their ability to attract the opposite sex, sure. But most of the top bodybuilders, models, businessmen, etc don't want to be at the top to attract women. They do it because they want to be better than all the other bodybuilders, models, businessmen, and so on.
Similarly, it's possible that some of these tall people who want this surgery want it because they want to be taller than everyone else. Whether that's a "problem" or not isn't for anyone else to decide. It's their body and their life.
I understand where you are coming from because I hate this in other online forums. However, these forums have an off-topic section and I tend to limit my posts like that to this section. Also, regarding possible alternatives to CLL, you should help promote these ideas if you think they merit funding. I had never heard of these two names before reading your post today.
Additionally, please try to understand the other side. Posting all the scientific research that shows how much it sucks being short can be just seen as circlejerking on how much it sucks being short, on a forum where everyone is fully aware of that. I do believe I have illustrated in the past viable, alternative ways for men of shorter stature to find partners (not supermodels) and whatnot. I don't see it as virtue signaling / coping delusions but as just showing it's not all hopeless. Some here are a decade or more away from really doing a surgery like this, and it's not impossible to live without it.
Regarding my posting scientific research on heightism, etc:
As you're probably noticed, I have never, nor will I ever, randomly create doom-and-gloom threads whose sole purpose it is to further damage the self-esteem of the posters here (I haven't made any threads going "look look everyone! look at this new study that proves how hopeless it is for you because you're short!"). My intention isn't to "kick people while they're down" or "drag them down further".
When I post this stuff, it's ALWAYS in response to someone making some positivist claim about how short men can still attract "plenty" of women, how it's "not so bad when you really think about it", basically all sorts of feel-good platitudinous claims that (as far as I've seen) tend to be embellished, no doubt in an attempt to console the depressed and potentially suicidal members the posts are aimed at.
It's not that I "don't understand" the other side. I know what you're trying to do, and I know that you are probably trying to help by doing it. The problem is that what you're doing will ultimately have the opposite effect.
Suppose I stopped debunking the positivity posts, or even joined in and started making posts like those too, talking about how it's not so bad, how things can be great as a short man, you can have plenty of women, post lots of staged videos where short men kiss and fondle paid actresses, and so on. Lots of short guys see these posts and start to feel better. They start to internalize these feel-good delusions, and kind of start to forget about their problems. Hey, maybe being short isn't so bad after all.
When they get off their computer and go back to the real world, they're still short. Heightism hasn't gone away. People are still going to treat them the exact same way they were before. They're still gonna get made fun of by their peers, passed over for promotions at work, rejected by women, etc. Nothing has changed except their "mentality". They're still being discriminated against and treated like sh*t because of their height, and it still makes them miserable. The only difference is that now, they'll try to ignore it or just endure it and keep living their lives in spite of it, resigning themselves to a mediocre or poor quality of life.
Their feel-good delusions don't match their real-life experiences, which will result in cognitive dissonance. After a while, no matter how brainwashed they are, they won't be able to cope anymore, and they'll end up depressed again, and then they'll end up back on this forum, and we're back to square one.
How do I know this? Because this is how real-life """therapy""" works. I know that because I've been through it before. Therapy, especially the increasingly popular "cognitive-behavioral" therapy that is in vogue nowadays, is all about brainwashing the patient with positive affirmations and hoping that these "stick", allowing the patient to cope with whatever they're unhappy with just enough so that they can be a "well-adjusted person", which basically just means they're mentally stable enough to work a 9-to-5 job and take care of themselves rather than applying for disability and living on welfare.
"Therapy" is a lifelong thing. Once you've completed a 6 or so month long "course" of therapy with a mental health professional and they deem you to be "rehabilitated", you'll get sent on your way with a request to "check back" in around 3 or so months to "touch base". What this means is they need to check whether your indoctrination is still holding strong or if you need some more, because psychologists are well aware that problems "treated" by therapy recur in virtually every case.
This is what will happen if we start circlejerking and trying to console each other. We'll brainwash each other into thinking heightism's not so bad, until we go out there and see that yes, it kind of IS that bad, and then we end up back here again, where we'll once again get brainwashed, and the cycle continues in that way.
Ultimately, we accomplish absolutely nothing other than waste each other's time - time that we'll never be able to get back, that could've been used working together towards an actual SOLUTION that would solve the problem once and for all.
Regarding the alternatives to CLL:
I've been planning to do just that. I've been compiling research and information I've seen about them from other sites and their own sites, though I've faced some difficulty (Dr. Teplyashin is Russian, and his site is in Russian). Once I've got all this stuff prepared, I will post about them.
So in other words your short and are praying that a “new procedure” to grow taller pops up. Keep waiting buddy. Meanwhile ill be growing while your on your labtop trying to bully people lol
Do yourself a favor and work through some 3rd grade grammar and spelling books when you're in the recovery phase. You have the writing ability of a 9 year old, and it's only going to be more embarrassing once you're taller.
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Okay, I understand a lot more where you are coming from now.
Just two things:
Whether that's a "problem" or not isn't for anyone else to decide. It's their body and their life.
The problem that I meant was in the pain they feel, not the decisions they want to make as adults. It generally originates in their heads in these cases (as it's harder to experience negative heightism at above average heights) and not from daily life, so a psychological origin, and a problem because of the distress it brings. How they want approach and solve that is entirely their own choice.
I've been planning to do just that. I've been compiling research and information I've seen about them from other sites and their own sites, though I've faced some difficulty (Dr. Teplyashin is Russian, and his site is in Russian). Once I've got all this stuff prepared, I will post about them.
We have some Russian users here. They may be willing to help as it is in the interest of all of us.
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Ok so hypothetically lets say your right extremis
So instead of people "lying" to themselves and saying "lifes not that bad" and going out trying to make the best of it, they should be honest and face reality. Tell themselves it sucks being short and look at the statistics and examples and then feel bad. Go through life thinking that they will always be unemployed, a virgin and be constantly bullied because they are short? (And what if now he has cognitive dissonance because maybe his reality of being short doesn't match the negative "harsh reality" picture you painted? What if every short mans life experience isn't the same?)
Like what's the end game here for the short guy?
I mean he either gets LL, stays miserable (and now with a LOT less control over his life), or waits for a non-cll height increase method?
What does he do?
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The problem that I meant was in the pain they feel, not the decisions they want to make as adults. It generally originates in their heads in these cases (as it's harder to experience negative heightism at above average heights) and not from daily life, so a psychological origin, and a problem because of the distress it brings. How they want approach and solve that is entirely their own choice.
We have some Russian users here. They may be willing to help as it is in the interest of all of us.
Excellent. That'll be a great help when the time comes.
Ok so hypothetically lets say your right extremis
So instead of people "lying" to themselves and saying "lifes not that bad" and going out trying to make the best of it, they should be honest and face reality. Tell themselves it sucks being short and look at the statistics and examples and then feel bad. Go through life thinking that they will always be unemployed, a virgin and be constantly bullied because they are short? (And what if now he has cognitive dissonance because maybe his reality of being short doesn't match the negative "harsh reality" picture you painted? What if every short mans life experience isn't the same?)
The part in bold accurately represents my point of view IF it's edited to read as follows
So instead of people "lying" to themselves and saying "lifes not that bad" and going out trying to make the best of it, they should be honest, face reality, and start working towards a permanent solution, which in this case means increasing their height.
The rest of this paragraph feels like a strawman. I never said short men would go through life being "unemployed, a virgin, and constantly bullied". I said that statistically speaking, they're more likely to be passed over for jobs or promotions, much less likely to be able to find a sexual/romantic partner (particularly who is genuinely physically attracted to them i.e. not just with them for money, help with raising children, status, etc), and more likely to be discriminated against/bullied, especially by people taller than them.
All the anecdotal and scientific evidence that's available substantiates these views, as I've demonstrated by posting the relevant studies/videos.
As for your comment about "cognitive dissonance": I don't think you understand what the term means. For your convenience, here's a definition:
In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort (psychological stress) experienced by a person who simultaneously holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. The occurrence of cognitive dissonance is a consequence of a person performing an action that contradicts personal beliefs, ideals, and values; and also occurs when confronted with new information that contradicts said beliefs, ideals, and values.[1][2]
In the example I gave, if the hypothetical short man has convinced himself that "being short isn't so bad" and then goes out into the world and has his belief validated (it turns out to be true), he wouldn't experience cognitive dissonance. If, however, he went out into the world and was treated in a way that is NOT consistent with his beliefs (i.e. bullied, rejected by women, passed over for promotions, so on), then he would experience cognitive dissonance.
Anyhow, to respond to your rhetorical question:
Is it possible that not every short man's life experience is negative, and that there are some short men whose lives aren't blighted by heightism? Absolutely.
Is it likely that these short men are the ones who end up on forums like this one? Absolutely not.
Like what's the end game here for the short guy?
I mean he either gets LL, stays miserable (and now with a LOT less control over his life), or waits for a non-cll height increase method?
What does he do?
The "end game" is whatever he chooses it to be. As you point out, he has choices.
1.) Get LL, which is risky, invasive, will athletically cripple him for life, and involves a long recovery process. For a lot of people, these requirements are prohibitive because they can't afford it, or have athletic aspirations, or simply don't want to take the risk of developing a fat embolism and dying.
2.) Do nothing and stay miserable. I surmise that by "a LOT less control over his life", you mean his positivist delusions having been shattered and being forced to face a cruel, harsh, depressing reality. In that case, yes, that is the case.
3.) "Wait" for a non-CLL height increase method.
Note that I don't recommend "waiting" for a non-CLL height increase method. I recommend working together with other unhappy short men to bring it about.
For the overwhelming majority of short men, their stature is something that makes them deeply unhappy, largely due to the way people perceive and treat them (due to their stature). For the overwhelming majority of short men, their height is something they would change in a heartbeat if there was a safe, non-invasive, non-crippling procedure available to do so.
Therefore, for the overwhelming majority of men, the "end game", at least as far as their immediate quality of life is concerned, would be to stop being short (IF a procedure like the one I described above existed).
If you want an example of what the "end game" for short men would be like if such procedures were being worked on, look at the male pattern baldness community. They're still deeply troubled by their problem, but they work towards solutions every day. People like swisstemples on Reddit develop ingenious techniques for stopping and even slightly reversing hair loss. The male pattern baldness community is rife with hope and perseverance, even though its members are often depressed or unhappy with their present state.
It's VERY rare for a member of the MPB community to just stop trying to fix their problem and delude themselves into thinking everything will be okay if they keep balding despite them KNOWING they're deeply unhappy about it.
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and start working towards a permanent solution, which in this case means increasing their height.
That's literally what everyone here is doing. The permanent solution for us is CLL. Most posters here, not you apparently, is here because they wish to increase their height through CLL. We ALL know that there is benefits to being taller. That's why we're here. No one's saying "just be yourself" and forget about getting taller. We have our solution, for most of us we just have to save money for a few years.
Why the hell would we choose to be miserable and dwell on negativities while we save money/line up logistics to become taller? Especially because for a lot of us, it's not that bad, we just want to become taller. We will have the same outcome except one will be optimistic and one will be miserable.
Just because we want to have LL it doesn't mean we have a "cruel, harsh, depressing reality", maybe thats the case for you. You don't have to be depressed to get the LL, you just have to want the height more than the money/time.
and what I was saying in my example is that I would have cognitive dissonance if I convinced myself that "being short is really really bad", and I went out into my reality and see that it was actually pretty decent (will get even better with LL, which is why we are here).
Idk it just sounds like your argument is: "Everyone should keep doing what you're doing (trying to increase our height), but be sad about it"
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I made a double post on accident
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That's literally what everyone here is doing. The permanent solution for us is CLL. Most posters here, not you apparently, is here because they wish to increase their height through CLL. We ALL know that there is benefits to being taller. That's why we're here. No one's saying "just be yourself" and forget about getting taller. We have our solution, for most of us we just have to save money for a few years.
It's funny how in the paragraph following this one in your post, you criticize me for generalizing many posters on this board (at least based on the content of their posts), they DO face a cruel, harsh and depressing reality, but you're perfectly okay with making the generalized claim that "the permanent solution for us is CLL".
To take a page out of your own book: Maybe that's the case for you.
Most posters here "wish to increase their height through CLL" because it's the only method available to do it. Most posters here would also prefer not to have to undergo a barbaric, crippling surgery with not-insignificant risks for permanent complications.
It's great that there are a lot of CLL success stories, but then there are stories like unicorn's or other patients who suffered serious complications that still persist to this day. Even a lot of the people who are "satisfied" with their CLL results have persistent complications (hampered athleticism, joint pains, reduced range of motion, stiffness, etc) that they try not to make a big deal out of because they basically feel the benefits of their new height outweigh the drawbacks.
What I'm saying is we shouldn't be satisfied with CLL. It's great that it exists and it's certainly better than nothing, but the fact is it's a 30+ year old surgery that has basically hit the cap in terms of how advanced it's going to get. At the end of the day, no matter what new devices come out (PRECISE 3, SYNOSTE or whatever), the whole thing comes down to cutting a bone and slowly pulling it apart.
If we had a more advanced and sophisticated procedure that was safer, less invasive, and didn't involve crippling yourself athletically for life or risking other permanent complications, nobody would look twice at CLL. What I'm arguing is that we're maybe 7 years away from such a procedure (science, especially stem cell research, has come a VERY long way in the last 3 years) if we all come together to support the scientists researching the relevant fields of study (epiphyseal plate regeneration, etc), and that it would benefit us all to do so because we'd all be able to partake in the newer procedure(s).
Why the hell would we choose to be miserable and dwell on negativities while we save money/line up logistics to become taller? Especially because for a lot of us, it's not that bad, we just want to become taller. We will have the same outcome except one will be optimistic and one will be miserable.
Just because we want to have LL it doesn't mean we have a "cruel, harsh, depressing reality", maybe thats the case for you. You don't have to be depressed to get the LL, you just have to want the height more than the money/time.
I've met many more short men in my life who want CLL because their reality is "cruel, harsh, and depressing" than those who are getting it because it's just "a little bad". Even on this very forum and makemetaller, I've seen more depressed posters, posters whose lives have been ruined by heightism, and so on than I have posters like you.
Don't be a hypocrite.
and what I was saying in my example is that I would have cognitive dissonance if I convinced myself that "being short is really really bad", and I went out into my reality and see that it was actually pretty decent (will get even better with LL, which is why we are here).
The problem here is that your spin on my original analogy doesn't make sense from a logical perspective.
In my example, the person who gets convinced by positivity-posters that "being short isn't so bad" and then goes back into the outside world and suffers cognitive dissonance resulting from people's continued discrimination against him because of his short stature had already had negative social experiences because of his stature to begin with.
That's why they ended up on this forum to begin with. Think about it. Cosmetic limb lengthening surgery is an extremely obscure procedure. The average person on the street doesn't even know that this surgery exists. Would a short man who was happy or satisfied with his stature, who wasn't discriminated against or mistreated because of it, end up desperately and obsessively scouring the internet for ways to get taller to the point that they eventually find small, niche forums like this dedicated to an obscure, barbaric, expensive and risky surgery?
You don't really think that makes sense, do you?
In your example, you say that you "would have cognitive dissonance if you convinced yourself that 'being short is really bad' and then went out into reality and see that it was actually pretty decent'". Well, obviously, you had already been "out into reality" prior to ever discovering this forum (you didn't spend every single second of your life sitting at your PC in your room reading this forum - you've BEEN in the outside world before), so your exposure to reality after "convincing yourself that 'being short is really bad'" wouldn't be the first.
I said earlier that your version of the analogy doesn't make logical sense. I'll explain why here.
In this hypothetical scenario, we have 2 possibilities as to your life experience prior to arriving on this forum, and indeed prior to "convincing yourself that 'being short was really really bad'":
1) Prior to "convincing yourself that 'being short is really really bad'", you had several experiences with heightism and height discrimination (see examples of heightism already given in other posts). In that case, those experiences must have been quite egregious, since they drove you to "convince yourself that 'being short is really really bad'". That being the case, it is not likely that after being exposed to this forum and having your belief affirmed/supported by the "negative" (realist) posts on this board and returning to reality, you would somehow discover that being short is "actually pretty decent". After all, the thing that drove you to convince yourself that being short was 'really really bad' was the height discrimination you faced "out in your reality" to begin with.
So we have a contradiction.
2) Prior to 'convincing yourself that being short is really bad', you had never had any experience with heightism. In this case, it doesn't make sense that you would "convince yourself that 'being short is really really bad'". Why would a person who's had no negative experiences related to their stature come to such a conclusion? Why would they be able to be convinced by random forum posters that it is? This is like saying that you could convince a rich man that 'being rich is really really bad' just by telling him that it is, despite the fact that it doesn't line up with his real-life experiences.
In order for you to become convinced that being short is 'really really bad', there must be some basis for it in your life experiences. People don't just randomly start to hate a specific feature of themselves for no reason. This doesn't make sense.
So we again have a contradiction.
Idk it just sounds like your argument is: "Everyone should keep doing what you're doing (trying to increase our height), but be sad about it"
No. My argument is "everyone shouldd keep trying to increase their height without trying to delude themselves into thinking they're 'okay being short', or that 'being short isn't so bad', or any of the other dozens of platitudes that get repeated by the positivity posters."
In other words, be realists, not optimists. Why? Because optimism leads to unrealistic expectations, which leads to delusions, which results in what I explained to myloginacct. You end up in an endless cycle of "positivity" delusions that will get torn down when you go out into the real world.
How do I know they'll get torn down? The answer is I don't know for sure (I am not omniscient), but I can reasonably assert it because as I've repeated MULTIPLE times on this board, if you somehow find your way to a forum about a grisly, barbaric, crippling, expensive, obscure cosmetic limb lengthening surgery with tons of risks and actually intend to have it performed on you, the overwhelming likelihood is that you've already had extremely bad life experiences related to your stature. People aren't going to treat you differently just because you've changed your mentality when the whole reason they were mistreating you in the first place was not your mentality, but your stature.
Again, just so we're clear: short men who aren't in some way unhappy with their height and/or have not had negative life experiences based on their height do NOT end up on websites with names like "LIMB LENGTHENING FORUM", "MAKE ME TALLER", or any forum whose focus is an extremely painful, risky, barbaric surgery that has the potential to permanently cripple them athletically or even completely. "Normal", "well-adjusted", "happy" people don't know this surgery exists. They don't look for it, they don't sign up on forums to discuss it, they don't plan international trips to get it, they don't sit save up tens of thousands of dollars over the course of years to be able to afford it, they don't analyze their potential proportions before and after the surgery, they don't have anything to do with it.
I don't know how many times I've had to repeat this point. It seems like a lot of people have difficulty understanding it.
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This is the limb lengthening forum, so I think it's ok to generalize that most people are here to get limb lengthening. If you want to discuss the efficacy of LL then that's a different conversation.
"I've met many more short men in my life who want CLL because their reality is "cruel, harsh, and depressing" than those who are getting it because it's just "a little bad". Even on this very forum and makemetaller, I've seen more depressed posters, posters whose lives have been ruined by heightism, and so on than I have posters like you."
Yes I agree with this, but I'm assuming you mean meet through internet than real life. I wish more posters had my mentality, and I'm sure you wish that more posters had your mentality. I guess at the end of the day we're not so different you and I. We're both trying to help short people feel better. But I'm pretty sure that you have much more negative thoughts than me day to day.
And the idea is not to delude yourself into this ignorant positive state where you just ignore everything bad. It's just to not let the negativity control your life.
Idk friend you keep writing these long paragraphs but you're pretty much saying the same thing.
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also Bruce Wayne is an extreme example, no offense to him but he has a lot more problems then his height.
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No, you "fked" tons of women you thought were 10/10. Unless you were "fking" actual supermodels (as in, career runway models), you weren't anywhere NEAR the "10/10" range.
I don't know why you would consider this impressive or feel the need to point this out. I'm starting to think there may be truth to the meme that short men view having sxx with tall women as some kind of "achievement", as if it's a challenge.
News flash: A woman who's 178 cm tall is within the upper 1st percentile of female height, which is NOT a good thing in the least in terms of her sxxual attractiveness to the overwhelming majority of men.
Tall women are VERY often insecure about their height just like short men are, though not to the same extent due to the massive amount of validation women get from men and the ease with which they can secure a sxxual partner despite any physical flaw they have (just boot up Tinder or some other dating app).
The point is, having sxx with a tall woman as a short man isn't impressive. Both parties are undesirable to the majority of the opposite sxx. You're not "proving" anything by saying you had sxx with a tall woman. If you approached her, you are probably the first man to do so in a LONG time. Most men wouldn't want anything to do with a woman who would tower them in the 3-4 inch heels women wear on nights out.
http://www.psypost.org/2017/03/personality-traits-no-influence-initial-romantic-attraction-study-finds-48362
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/per.2087/abstract
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40806-017-0092-x
Please present your peer-reviewed behavioral analysis studies demonstrating the importance of """personality""" in attracting women?
Such insecurity,
Why are you so jealous ?
The fact that you live an insecure life with whatever your height does not prove that everyone under 170 is pathetic too.
I fcked a very beautifull girl 10 cm taller than me in a party where everyone was bare feet. That means you can do it. Also I dated a 170 at 168 for 5 months.
Those researches does not mean anything to me, I fked 10/10’s and now I’m dating one. You just go on, be insecure and jerk off all day.
U won’t get well with LL, go to a psycologist.
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Such insecurity,
Why are you so jealous ?
The fact that you live an insecure life with whatever your height does not prove that everyone under 170 is pathetic too.
I fked a very beautifull girl 10 cm taller than me in a party where everyone was bare feet. That means you can do it. Also I dated a 170 at 168 for 5 months.
Those researches does not mean anything to me, I fked 10/10’s and now I’m dating one. You just go on, be insecure and jerk off all day.
U won’t get well with LL, go to a psycologist.
fking tons of 10/10 woman is possible for a rich, famous and more than average in appearance man.
For NOONE else.
So, an 1.68 guy who is not a millionaire nor famous saying he fked tons of very beautiful women is a joke.
Especially when he is not ok with his life and chooses to do LL. If I had such success I'd never think about LL and the same would have done the 99% of LLers.
You are a sensible man Jexus so please don't exaggerate and write silly things like that.
@extremis:
For the next many years (20+) the one and only way to increase height will be LL.
Research is not even close to make people start growing again (that would also mean maybe the end of geting older etc which is a far reality if even possible) so anyone who wants to get taller has only LL.
But things are not what you describe. If things go well and you have a capable doctor and don't lengthen more than the safe limits your athletic abilities won't be diminished ?they'll be just less than before) and you can live normally with a better body and much better self esteem and social benefits.
And having stryde or any other full weight bearing magnetic internal nail makes LL completely different to what happens now or in the past so things will soon be better than even for future LLers.
So people should stop moaning, yes LL is not easy nor fast and cost a lot of money but it can solve our problem. And thats what it really counts for me.
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pluripotent stem cell production, 3-D bioidentical bone implants, etc.
What future are you seeing with these technologies?
I often think about alternatives to LL, and, so far, I haven't been able to think of anything that could happen in the next 10 years and also supplant CLL. The future is indeed unpredictable and science can leap exponentially, but I'm speaking generally. I do think all research towards the goal of allowing people to increase their height merits further funding, though.
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Adriana Lima dated an average non-famous non-millionaire non-extremely handsome Turkish man, who is 2 cm shorter than her called Metin Hara.
He just writes books and She just liked him.
You are extremely insecure about girls but height is not an excuse for everything.
I did LL because my tibias were too short to my height probably were traumatised because of extreme heavy exercice at very young age. I look more proportionnate now.
I never had any problem with my height. I’m also not a millionaire. I’m just handsome and can talk with girls. I’m also a professional drummer I think that attracts lot of chicks.
Bodybuilder I’m %100 sure you have a chance with almost any girl under 175. The very rare ones that will eliminate you immediately bcause of your height are height obsessed themselves. Higher than 175 in girls is imo not very attractive I find them masculin.
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Adriana Lima dated an average non-famous non-millionaire non-extremely handsome Turkish man, who is 2 cm shorter than her called Metin Hara.
He just writes books and She just liked him.
You are extremely insecure about girls but height is not an excuse for everything.
I did LL because my tibias were too short to my height probably were traumatised because of extreme heavy exercice at very young age. I look more proportionnate now.
I never had any problem with my height. I’m also not a millionaire. I’m just handsome and can talk with girls. I’m also a professional drummer I think that attracts lot of chicks.
Bodybuilder I’m %100 sure you have a chance with almost any girl under 175. The very rare ones that will eliminate you immediately bcause of your height are height obsessed themselves. Higher than 175 in girls is imo not very attractive I find them masculin.
My experiece says otherwise jexus.
1.74 is not enough for meny eomen regardless of their height. But I don't care. I live my life as good as I can and when time comes a second LL will make me as I imagine myself if things go well.
Lets hope I have the chance to see me at 1.80-81 and feel completely ok and have the successes I hope with the women I want.
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#1 You don't actually need to be deluded to have BDD. It's part of the diagnostic criteria, but it's not essential. Even leaving that out, if you are obsessed with your physical appearance to the point that it prevents you from living a normal life and contributing to society, you're sick. I don't know why you're dissapointed with therapy having that outcome as a goal (patient becoming useful and productive). You owe a debt society, society doesn't owe you a thing.
#2 How tall are you?
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#1 You don't actually need to be deluded to have BDD. It's part of the diagnostic criteria, but it's not essential. Even leaving that out, if you are obsessed with your physical appearance to the point that it prevents you from living a normal life and contributing to society, you're sick.
I don't actually know if you're addressing me with this post, but given the fact you mention "disappointment" with therapy, I'm going to guess you are.
I don't think anyone would argue that a person who becomes a recluse/shut-in or develops avoidant habits as a result of some physical trait they're unhappy about is mentally healthy. Whether or not this translates into a "body dysmorphia" diagnosis, however, is a different matter altogether.
Unless you're a psychiatrist, you don't have the right or academic acumen to make such an assertion, and you aren't, because if you were, you'd know that online diagnosing is not only unprofessional but inaccurate.
I don't know why you're dissapointed with therapy having that outcome as a goal (patient becoming useful and productive).
Because the patient is an sentient, self aware individual and not a cog in a machine. The goal of """therapy""" of any kind should be to remove the source of suffering so that the patient's quality of life improves, not put a band aid over it so they can cope with it just well enough for them to be "useful and productive".
You owe a debt society, society doesn't owe you a thing.
LMAO
Just from reading this I can tell exactly what kind of person you are. You're wrong. Neither I nor anyone else "owes a debt" to society.
"Society" doesn't get up every morning to work a 10-hour shift (2 hours unpaid prep/transit time, plus an 8-hour shift). "Society" doesn't pay anyone's mortgage, health insurance, food, utilities, luxuries, and so on. "Society" doesn't suffer the effects of discrimination, whether it be based on height, race, looks, or what-have-you.
Individuals do all those things. I don't "owe" society anything. No one does. I've never heard such a ridiculous, asinine, absurd, arrogant, moralizing piece of idiotic rhetoric in all my life. It sounds like the kind of thing some uppity baby boomer know-it-all condescendingly says to young people, or maybe something a communist would say.
In fact, there's a much stronger argument in favor of the idea that "society" owes people something, because "society" is metaphysically dependent on individuals to exist. Individuals can exist without society. The converse does not hold true.
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(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/glee/images/e/ea/Oh-boy-here-we-go-again.jpg)
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I don't actually know if you're addressing me with this post, but given the fact you mention "disappointment" with therapy, I'm going to guess you are.
I don't think anyone would argue that a person who becomes a recluse/shut-in or develops avoidant habits as a result of some physical trait they're unhappy about is mentally healthy. Whether or not this translates into a "body dysmorphia" diagnosis, however, is a different matter altogether.
Unless you're a psychiatrist, you don't have the right or academic acumen to make such an assertion, and you aren't, because if you were, you'd know that online diagnosing is not only unprofessional but inaccurate.
You've been attempting to make definitive assertions re: BDD the entire thread bud. At the end of the day we're both just making extrapolations based on the diagnostic criteria. If you're going to claim I'm not qualified, you're right-- but then neither are you. How about applying the standards you've just set for me to yourself too.
Because the patient is an sentient, self aware individual and not a cog in a machine. The goal of """therapy""" of any kind should be to remove the source of suffering so that the patient's quality of life improves, not put a band aid over it so they can cope with it just well enough for them to be "useful and productive".
More idealism. "should, should, should". At some point you have to look at the world and accept it for what it really is. Your psychiatry is subsidized by society because we hope that unstable people like yourself will eventually become less of a danger to the rest of us, & hopefully one day contribute like most people do. Ending suffering is a very positive side effect, but if that's all we got out of the deal the system would not work. Only your mother loves you unconditionally, & would throw money at you for your sake alone, especially for something like height dysphoria. In fact if your treatment wasn't subsidized, I bet she's the one who paid for it
LMAO
Just from reading this I can tell exactly what kind of person you are. You're wrong. Neither I nor anyone else "owes a debt" to society.
"Society" doesn't get up every morning to work a 10-hour shift (2 hours unpaid prep/transit time, plus an 8-hour shift). "Society" doesn't pay anyone's mortgage, health insurance, food, utilities, luxuries, and so on. "Society" doesn't suffer the effects of discrimination, whether it be based on height, race, looks, or what-have-you.
Individuals do all those things. I don't "owe" society anything. No one does. I've never heard such a ridiculous, asinine, absurd, arrogant, moralizing piece of idiotic rhetoric in all my life. It sounds like the kind of thing some uppity baby boomer know-it-all condescendingly says to young people, or maybe something a communist would say.
In fact, there's a much stronger argument in favor of the idea that "society" owes people something, because "society" is metaphysically dependent on individuals to exist. Individuals can exist without society. The converse does not hold true.
Society's probably too broad, but if your conscience doesn't tell you that you owe your family some kind of debt for keeping you alive & putting up with all your BS as a kid-- you actually are still a little kid. No wonder you're obsessed with how you look despite supposedly being an adult.
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I think you generally make reasonable posts in other threads, Thatdude, but I think you're off the mark here. I'm guessing it's the effect of being a good height (175cm+) and having lived a mostly normal life with normal parents? Excuse me for assuming if I'm wrong.
Your psychiatry is subsidized by society because we hope that unstable people like yourself will eventually become less of a danger to the rest of us, & hopefully one day contribute like most people do. Ending suffering is a very positive side effect, but if that's all we got out of the deal the system would not work.
What subsidized psychiatry? Most of us outside of Europe had to struggle a lot of years trying to find help and then had to pay out of our pocket for it. Do you mean how government funds research for science?
Society's probably too broad, but if your conscience doesn't tell you that you owe your family some kind of debt for keeping you alive & putting up with all your BS as a kid-- you actually are still a little kid. No wonder you're obsessed with how you look despite supposedly being an adult.
Parents owe a responsibility to their kids for making a conscious decision to put them in this world. Again, I'm guessing you were lucky enough to have had a mostly normal life with caring parents. That's great. That being the case, you'll definitely feel indebted and grateful to them. That's not how anyone who grew up in an abusive household feels.
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5´7 is still short , so you are going to have drawbacks in society . your height will be a negative aspect of your phisyc .
For most girls 5´7 is not enought , most girls want average / tall mans , it doesnt matter if the girl is 160cm tall. And the hottest girls are above 5´7 .
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5´7 is still short , so you are going to have drawbacks in society . your height will be a negative aspect of your phisyc .
For most girls 5´7 is not enought , most girls want average / tall mans , it doesnt matter if the girl is 160cm tall. And the hottest girls are above 5´7 .
No, no and no.
5-7 (170 to 172,5) is rather about average or a little under (5-9 for the USA), even taller than average in many countries (most asian countries, and maybe even some south american countries)
and I think that you care more about height (girls opinion) than girls
but I know also that in some countries like the USA or even China it can become an obsession for some girls. They want a tall guy, doesn't matter if he is beautiful or average looking, thin or muscular, etc they just want a tall guy
it's probably for that reason that female lie about their heights. Especially on dating website. I've registered to look at it : about 50 % of girls were taller than 5-7 and maybe 20-30 % taller than 5-9 in a country where female average is 5-4. And I saw the same in senior websites. And especially into african girls, they were in average 5-9 on their profile.
But I laughed, it's not serious. Like sportsmen height/weight listening, nothing serious.
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You can live a pretty normal life at 5'7. Not an ideal one, but you can at least get a few dates, get married, get treated normally in a workplace, etc... I know a few 5'7 guys who have no problem doing any of these things. I wouldn't say that really holds true for guys 5'5 and under. I don't know a single guy 5'5 or under who's had a girlfriend or gotten laid here in college, or who gets treated normally at say parties and other social events. Every guy I know shorter than 5'5-5'6 is clearly depressed, very little social life, small presence on social media, play video games all day or lift weights all day etc... Still at 5'7 you're pretty short and girls will still neg you for it, and some other "men" may respect you less. I would say that ends at probably 5'9, 5'10 ideally. But you can still participate in general life at 5'7, you're not completely left out from some things.
Now that isn't to say that at 5'7 you have a nice stack of bargaining chips either. Obviously even if you get into a relationship or manage to secure a managerial position at work, you're going to have a much tougher time maintaining than some moron who's 6'2. But you're not completely disqualified from doing these things, you are still a reasonable size for an adult male, you are at least the same height as the average 5'4 woman in 3 inch heels.
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At 5.7 you can live normally.
An ugly (not like a monster of course!) woman can live normal too.
But in both cases these people won't have much chances on dating.
So yes they can live normal, but not as happy and ok with themselves like better looking or taller people.
Men less than 5.6 can not even live normal as their heights will be a permanent joke in many instances (like work etc) which won't let them continue their lives normally.
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Guess I need to tell my 5'6'' uncle that he can't "live normal", haha. I mean he owns his own house, lives with his girlfriend being together for....15 years?...constantly going skiing and visiting foreign countries.....DJing and partying in his free time. Having quite a lot of friends and being well-respected at work. I need to go and tell him that he's supposed to suffer and be a permanent joke at work! :o
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at 5-7 you can date, no problem with that.
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Guess I need to tell my 5'6'' uncle that he can't "live normal", haha. I mean he owns his own house, lives with his girlfriend being together for....15 years?...constantly going skiing and visiting foreign countries.....DJing and partying in his free time. Having quite a lot of friends and being well-respected at work. I need to go and tell him that he's supposed to suffer and be a permanent joke at work! :o
If your uncle had more than one gorgeous looking gf each year you could say that what I wrote is false.
Having 1 woman 15 years and a house does not mean that you have a good sexual life nor that you are generally successful.
So stay on point to what I said or just say bs about friends, uncles and all these that have no significance.
Knik, and a fat woman can date. But with much less successes than a good looking one and with of course worse quality on partner's looks on general.
5.7 is not enough for men in west.
Anyone less than 5.10 will face some problems on dating and the less you are thw more problems you face. At 5.7 you are not doomed but still many women will reject you for your height. At even less than that you are doomed, period.
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Reason is NPD and other personality disorders.
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If your uncle had more than one gorgeous looking gf each year you could say that what I wrote is false.
Having 1 woman 15 years and a house does not mean that you have a good sxxual life nor that you are generally successful.
So stay on point to what I said or just say bs about friends, uncles and all these that have no significance.
Knik, and a fat woman can date. But with much less successes than a good looking one and with of course worse quality on partner's looks on general.
5.7 is not enough for men in west.
Anyone less than 5.10 will face some problems on dating and the less you are thw more problems you face. At 5.7 you are not doomed but still many women will reject you for your height. At even less than that you are doomed, period.
except if you want to date a tall girl (and still), no it won't be a problem to be 5-8 or 5-9
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If your uncle had more than one gorgeous looking gf each year you could say that what I wrote is false.
Having 1 woman 15 years and a house does not mean that you have a good sxxual life nor that you are generally successful.
That's not what you said.
You said a man at that height cannot "live normal" and will be a constant joke by others at his workplace and anywhere else. That is pure BS.
And of course having several short-term relationships instead of one long-term one doesn't guarantee a person is sexually satisfied either.
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That's not what you said.
You said a man at that height cannot "live normal" and will be a constant joke by others at his workplace and anywhere else. That is pure BS.
And of course having several short-term relationships instead of one long-term one doesn't guarantee a person is sxxually satisfied either.
But it guarantees that you are attractive.
And I said that if you are less than 5.6 (or 5.5 max) you cant live normally.
I doubt if your uncle had a so "happy" life if he was 5.3 for instance.
Knik, many women nowadays are more than 5.7 so at that heights you can't have a large amount of women only because you are not even significantly taller than them.
But even shorter girls like men of average height and more like fat men want fit women. What is attractive is the same for short and tall women too so the more a man is far from average (in height or anything else) the more unattractive he is, to all women.
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You've been attempting to make definitive assertions re: BDD the entire thread bud. At the end of the day we're both just making extrapolations based on the diagnostic criteria. If you're going to claim I'm not qualified, you're right-- but then neither are you. How about applying the standards you've just set for me to yourself too.
The only "assertions" I've made are pointing out the criteria that psychiatrists use to diagnose "BDD" in patients. I'm not making value judgments or giving ultimatums, unlike you:
Even leaving that out, if you are obsessed with your physical appearance to the point that it prevents you from living a normal life and contributing to society, you're sick.
You're not a psychiatrist, and aren't qualified to make this assertion. Neither do you have the right to be judge and jury as to what constitutes being "sick" or not. Hypocrite.
More idealism. "should, should, should". At some point you have to look at the world and accept it for what it really is. Your psychiatry is subsidized by society
My "psychiatry" wasn't "subsidized by society", you presumptuous imbecile. When I did visit a therapist, I paid out of pocket. "Society" didn't have anything to do with it.
because we hope that unstable people like yourself will eventually become less of a danger to the rest of us
LMFAO at trying to portray me as a dangerous villain and "society" (i.e. you) as innocent victims. You're trash.
, & hopefully one day contribute like most people do.
I would rather die than contribute anything to scum like you.
Ending suffering is a very positive side effect, but if that's all we got out of the deal the system would not work.
Right, that deal doesn't work!
But when society discriminates and oppresses short people to the point that they end up in psychiatrist's offices, or on forums like this one, or even committing suicide, and then get shamed for demanding solutions, they're expected to "suck it up" and "contribute to society" - the same society that caused their problem in the first place, and that deal totally works, right?
If society causes people to develop height dysphoria by way of its bigoted and discriminatory standards, then it should pay the price to the people it victimizes. Oppressors do not have the right to demand "something out of the deal".
Society's probably too broad, but if your conscience doesn't tell you that you owe your family some kind of debt for keeping you alive & putting up with all your BS as a kid-- you actually are still a little kid. No wonder you're obsessed with how you look despite supposedly being an adult.
LOL. You moralizing piece of garbage. Who do you think you are to lecture other people on "conscience" when you callously demand that the oppressed pay their oppressors for the privilege of being oppressed by them?
I don't "owe" anyone anything. This post by myloginacct perfectly sums up my thoughts on this matter:
Parents owe a responsibility to their kids for making a conscious decision to put them in this world. Again, I'm guessing you were lucky enough to have had a mostly normal life with caring parents. That's great. That being the case, you'll definitely feel indebted and grateful to them. That's not how anyone who grew up in an abusive household feels.
I didn't ask to be born. Nobody put a gun to my parent's heads and made them have a child. If my "family" didn't want to spend the money to raise or take care of me, they could easily have given me up for adoption, kicked me out of the house, or straight up aborted me.
Saying I "owe my family some kind of debt" for raising me is like saying I should pay a restaurant if one its servers forcibly drags me in, sits me at a table and brings me five thousand dollars' worth of food I didn't order.
The way you talk leads me to believe you view having children as an business venture, as if you're expecting a "return on investment" for going through the trouble of raising a child. It's disgusting. My initial analysis of you was spot on. You're a parasite.
You baby boomers can't die fast enough. Virtue signalling scum.
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5,8 here
i think extremis is one of the few that makes sense here.
unfortunatley many people here tend to think that you dont have to be average height(510, 511) or tall to live a normal life. i dont understand ''short'' guys here that think getting to 5,7 5,8 will cure their height neurosis, sure it will be a huge improvement but it wont be comparable to a 510 511, not to talk about 6 feet.
i hope that mankind will be able to help us grow taller naturally in the next 100yrs or learn how to manipulate dna to eradicate the problem from the start.
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5,8 here
i think extremis is one of the few that makes sense here.
unfortunatley many people here tend to think that you dont have to be average height(510, 511) or tall to live a normal life. i dont understand ''short'' guys here that think getting to 5,7 5,8 will cure their height neurosis, sure it will be a huge improvement but it wont be comparable to a 510 511, not to talk about 6 feet.
i hope that mankind will be able to help us grow taller naturally in the next 100yrs or learn how to manipulate dna to eradicate the problem from the start.
This is next level brain gymnastics. 5'5 to 5'8 would be a much, much bigger difference than 5'8 to 5'11, much less 5'8 to 5'10. Go put on Timberland boots and go out a few nights and see how much difference 5'8 to 5'10 makes. Also, if you're doing this for women how good looking you are is a big factor as well. I know plenty of 5'8 guys who have no problem hooking up with hot girls, and I also know plenty of 6ft tall ugly guys who have never had a girl in their life. I think this place, and males in general, overestimate how important height is to women once you're like 3 inches taller than her. I would say after 5'9 your face and looks start mattering much much more than height unless you're like a 6'3 giant and you're going after that 10% of women who are height fetishists (just like you can be a steroid meathead and go after the 10% of women who are muscle fetishists).
But if you're 5'8 and getting rejected by like 5'3, 5'4 girls, I don't think you being 2 inches taller will really make a difference because she wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between someone of your height and someone 2 inches taller honestly, the aura is nearly the same. When standing next to my 5'7 friend I don't even feel that different, I look in the mirror and he doesn't look that much taller than me.
For example on Instagram body builder pages of guys who are like 5'10, 6'1 I see they will sometimes take photos with like 6'4, 6'5 giants and all the males are always commenting "Lol, he is so much bigger than you haha manlet!!!" or comments like this... Like lol, do you think the 6'1 guy truly cares? It is honestly a really retarded male point of view.
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5,8 here
i think extremis is one of the few that makes sense here.
unfortunatley many people here tend to think that you dont have to be average height(510, 511) or tall to live a normal life. i dont understand ''short'' guys here that think getting to 5,7 5,8 will cure their height neurosis, sure it will be a huge improvement but it wont be comparable to a 510 511, not to talk about 6 feet.
i hope that mankind will be able to help us grow taller naturally in the next 100yrs or learn how to manipulate dna to eradicate the problem from the start.
In the end, everyone has their own opinions about this matter.
For me, it's balancing needs vs wants that guide how I view it.
And actually, a lot gets lost in discourse and context here. Like when Jexus and Body Builder were arguing. Both from different countries, with different cultures and average heights. Body Builder was 10cm shorter than his country's average. Jexus was around 4cm shorter. Their experiences can both contradict one another while both being true.
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Finally I understand
At 5-9 you won't have any problems with your height with any girl except the 5-9+ minority. But at the same time you won't have the "attractiveness" that tall guys have (6ft+). And modelling standardized all of that, since most models are between 6ft and 6-4.
But 5-7+ girls is still a minority, everywhere. Even if I agree it can be a problem to date tall girls to be under 5-9
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Another useless topic that has been answered 1000+ times in forum,however I will answer as a 5.10' ft(in the morning)
Guys under 5.7 are doing this for obvious reasons,reaching an average height will allow them to reduce the social drawbacks (and we know all of them,it is not necessary to make a list) due of being undersized
Guys over 5.9 are doing this in order to achieve the social benefits:when you're 5.11 your height stop being a drawback and you can exprime all of your potential(social skills,carisma,nice body and face ecc).At 6ft+ your height instead becomes a bonus and if you are already good in other aspects this improvement can be your heaven
The first category is the one that needs more LL but the second one also has its own reasons
LL doesn't make you a god if before you were an incel,it does instead if you were a prince
I hope the metaphor explains the concept
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Finally I understand
At 5-9 you won't have any problems with your height with any girl except the 5-9+ minority. But at the same time you won't have the "attractiveness" that tall guys have (6ft+). And modelling standardized all of that, since most models are between 6ft and 6-4.
But 5-7+ girls is still a minority, everywhere. Even if I agree it can be a problem to date tall girls to be under 5-9
I'm not sure, I do think there is some "attractiveness" that tall guys have, but most of that is from having broad shoulders and long torsos, less so than their leg length really. It’s like girls under 5’5 having usually wider hips, nicer butts than taller girls. They are usually more attractive because of their hip to waist ratio rather than their heights.
It is also overrated though. I know a guy who is 6'3, broad-shouldered in Brazil which is like 6'5 in America comparatively and guess what, he only gets to have sxx with ugly fat girls lol. He tries to hit on pretty or average girls all the time and he has no luck at all. He's not bad looking either, just average. I told him to come to America and he will have much more luck with the height obsessed broads here. So it really depends on the culture you're in as well. It seems like US/Sweden/Netherlands seem to value height much more than other places. Socially moreso than sxxually I would say.
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Another useless topic that has been answered 1000+ times in forum,however I will answer as a 5.10' ft(in the morning)
Guys under 5.7 are doing this for obvious reasons,reaching an average height will allow them to reduce the social drawbacks (and we know all of them,it is not necessary to make a list) due of being undersized
Guys over 5.9 are doing this in order to achieve the social benefits:when you're 5.11 your height stop being a drawback and you can exprime all of your potential(social skills,carisma,nice body and face ecc).At 6ft+ your height instead becomes a bonus and if you are already good in other aspects this improvement can be your heaven
The first category is the one that needs more LL but the second one also has its own reasons
LL doesn't make you a god if before you were an incel,it does instead if you were a prince
I hope the metaphor explains the concept
You will have no life benefits going from 5'10 to 6'1 honestly. Sorry to burst the bubble. Your life will change 5% at maximum. That is maybe one less rejection of a drunk whore, not even a $5,000 promotion or CEO position. I also don’t think a majority of females would experience quantifiable life benefits from LL, no offense, I just think that’s the way it is, unless maybe if the girl is under 5ft. If you want to do it for your own peace of mind and aesthetics go ahead, but I don’t think it will bring any real world benefits of any form.
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You will have no life benefits going from 5'10 to 6'1 honestly. Sorry to burst the bubble. Your life will change 5% at maximum. That is maybe one less rejection of a drunk whore, not even a $5,000 promotion or CEO position. I also don’t think a majority of females would experience quantifiable life benefits from LL, no offense, I just think that’s the way it is, unless maybe if the girl is under 5ft.
wrong there is a big difference, sorry to burst your bubble. im sorry, i know many short guys wont like hearing this but there is a huge diff between 6feet and 510. when women want a 6ft guy they fking want a 6ft guy. its retarded to think that women or other people cant or wont notice the difference. i believe that many guys under 5,6 think that being 510 would be the same as being 6ft, wrong!! what people dont understand here is that most women wont find attractive guys under 5,9 , some under 6ft. which is terrible news if your very short. (you can look at those twitter profiles where girls would be making fun of short guys saying stuff like: ''short guys are the sons of satan'' and like that. well they arent joking when they say that, you can take it as an example to understand how women feel about this. most women detest short guys. again sorry to say that. i have had gf from 16 to 22 and now im 26 and ive been without for 4yrs.. may girls/women wont consider dating guys under 510, height is important, its the most important aspect of a man, after the genitals. height, believe it or not is what makes you a man in the eyes of a woman.
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wrong there is a big difference, sorry to burst your bubble. im sorry, i know many short guys wont like hearing this but there is a huge diff between 6feet and 510. when women want a 6ft guy they fking want a 6ft guy. its retarded to think that women or other people cant or wont notice the difference. i believe that many guys under 5,6 think that being 510 would be the same as being 6ft, wrong!! what people dont understand here is that most women wont find attractive guys under 5,9 , some under 6ft. which is terrible news if your very short. (you can look at those twitter profiles where girls would be making fun of short guys saying stuff like: ''short guys are the sons of satan'' and like that. well they arent joking when they say that, you can take it as an example to understand how women feel about this. most women detest short guys. again sorry to say that. i have had gf from 16 to 22 and now im 26 and ive been without for 4yrs.. may girls/women wont consider dating guys under 510, height is important, its the most important aspect of a man, after the genitals. height, believe it or not is what makes you a man in the eyes of a woman.
Well you are probably just ugly, sorry to burst your bubble. I’ve made out with and had girls take interest in me approach ask for my snap number etc here in uni at 5’6 and I’m not even ripped or anything, just slightly above average looking. Maybe 7/10.
If I am able to do that at 5’6 and I have 6ft tall friend guys who get straight up blown off when talking to women how is height everything? Lol. I mean they get treated like literal garbage and have never been approached before.
Especially the difference between 5’10 and 6ft... my god have you ever gone outside? I know someone who is 5’10 just wears Clark’s all the time and says he is 6 and EVERYONE believes him, he has no problems with women either, they believe him fully and he is 6/10 face and does pretty well.
Height is far from the most important part of a man. It is all about face. If I could choose between being an average faced 6’2 guy or Dave Franco I would choose Dave a billion times over. Girls hang his face up and masturbate to it. No one does that for the average 6’2 guy. Even if he wasn’t famous I would still choose to be him.
You are just linking other failures in your life to your height honestly, but it’s not responsible. There are lots of 6ft+ guys who are miserable, have no luck with women, are losers, it is not an easy ticket to life, not even close.
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i think many short guys here try to cope with their height defect by 'sugar-coating' it. its a fking big deal being underaverage, the more distant from average you are the worst it is. also being average 510 sucks you will get rejected, 6ft is the perfect height. 511 you can compensate with personality and $.
think about it like this being underaverage is like having a small penis. many girls dont like short guys (even 5,8 like me) because we look like children to them.
this is why were here. to fix this huge disaster of a problem with fking surgery.
oh and a part from this, are we really sure ''apotheosis'' ever did LL?? could he just be a dr sarin shill? o saw a video of him and he looks like a natural tall guy, no scars on his arms and legs. his arms are also big, which is wierd since he should have lengthened them.
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i think many short guys here try to cope with their height defect by 'sugar-coating' it. its a fking big deal being underaverage, the more distant from average you are the worst it is. also being average 510 sucks you will get rejected, 6ft is the perfect height. 511 you can compensate with personality and $.
think about it like this being underaverage is like having a small penis. many girls dont like short guys (even 5,8 like me) because we look like children to them.
this is why were here. to fix this huge disaster of a problem with fking surgery.
oh and a part from this, are we really sure ''apotheosis'' ever did LL?? could he just be a dr sarin shill? o saw a video of him and he looks like a natural tall guy, no scars on his arms and legs. his arms are also big, which is wierd since he should have lengthened them.
I’m not trying to cope. I realize my height is a big disadvantage for some women, but socis not having a 10/10 face or six pack or being wealthy. I don’t think height will magically turn me into a Don Juan either. I think my life will change at most 15% going from 5’6 to 5’8. I’m not even considering doing the second segment anymore because I’ve seen the world for what it is now. You are legitimately delusional and height obsessed, it is a misplaced feeling of inferiority honestly.
And yes Apo did LL and other plastic surgery from 5’7 to 6’1 and look what that got him. Did you see the “babes” in his video and his so called model girlfriend? All ugly girls, lmao.
It isn’t even more comical that you think 2 inches of 5’10 to 6ft would make any difference at all... my god, have you ever seen a true 5’10 next to 6ft? Now imagine from a girls perspective who has to look up.... almost no difference. If you really believe what women say I have bad news for you.
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Well you are probably just ugly, sorry to burst your bubble.
wrong i dont know if bait or just retarded. no brah im not ugly, ive had hot gf since i was 16 probably hotter than the ones you ever had, some of my ex gfs are instagram models now, so dont fking tell me this , my exes date tall good looking guys. guys with my face but 6 ft tall. there is nothing i can do about it.
i came here first when i was 23 cus i was out of the country and was hearing a girl i used to date when i was 17 and shes a model now (5,7 ''petite'' green eyes brunette, beautiful face) , we were the perfect match had so much in common, i loved her, when i came back to EU to see her cus we had reconnected through fb when i was gone, she thought from m pics i was taller, she liked my fking face as i am good looking, but when i came back to see her we dated and she didint want to see me anymore, she was sort of shocked when she saw me. i guess she thought i was taller, she had forgotten my height as we hadnt seen in 2 yrs( she does a lot of drugs btw, ).
anyway this made me realize i had a fking problem, 5,8 is not good for many girls/women, you can find proof in the internet.
also this is written like as i am very tired havent sleept last night.
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Well you are probably just ugly, sorry to burst your bubble.
wrong i dont know if bait or just retarded. no brah im not ugly, ive had hot gf since i was 16 probably hotter than the ones you ever had, some of my ex gfs are instagram models now, so dont fking tell me this , my exes date tall good looking guys. guys with my face but 6 ft tall. there is nothing i can do about it.
i came here first when i was 23 cus i was out of the country and was hearing a girl i used to date when i was 17 and shes a model now (5,7 ''petite'' green eyes brunette, beautiful face) , we were the perfect match had so much in common, i loved her, when i came back to EU to see her cus we had reconnected through fb when i was gone, she thought from m pics i was taller, she liked my fking face as i am good looking, but when i came back to see her we dated and she didint want to see me anymore, she was sort of shocked when she saw me. i guess she thought i was taller, she had forgotten my height as we hadnt seen in 2 yrs( she does a lot of drugs btw, ).
anyway this made me realize i had a fking problem, 5,8 is not good for many girls/women, you can find proof in the internet.
also this is written like as i am very tired havent sleept last night.
Well yeah mate obviously a 5’7 girl is not going to like a 5’8 guy. But who goes after 5’7 girls anyway? Here the average for girls is 5’4 and the taller they get the less hot usually.
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Sorry to hear the story man but I don’t think you would’ve had more luck at 5’10. A pretty girl like that was probably fking other guys when you were gone and didn’t care about you when you got back. Now if you were 6’1, 6’2? Yeah probably different in this instance, 5’8 to 6’1 is a big difference and the girl being 5’7 maybe. But I don’t think 5’10 would’ve been a different story.
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And yes Apo did LL and other plastic surgery from 5’7 to 6’1 and look what that got him. Did you see the “babes” in his video and his so called model girlfriend? All ugly girls, lmao.
are we sure can someone post a link of his video here pls?? i saw it on reddit the other day and they were guys over 6ft that were saying he looks perfect from a proportion point of view and didnt believe he had LL. when i looked at the video i saw that he doesnt have scars and his arms are very muscular, if you confront his body with other guys that did LL it looks more natural. his proportions are good and he looks very normal. makes me almost think he just baited a bunch of short guys and sold them to dr sarin. you know the internet is full of shills. even here on ll forum i think we have some shills.
i was going to do the surgery with dr guichet (have the funds) in 2015/16, thank god i didnt do it, seeing how that girl ended up.
i beleive the only docs that are decent here are paley and rozbruck ( mispelled)
dont trust anything coming from india. i would never get any advanced surgery there. beware of the shills.
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Sorry to hear the story man but I don’t think you would’ve had more luck at 5’10. A pretty girl like that was probably fking other guys when you were gone and didn’t care about you when you got back. Now if you were 6’1, 6’2? Yeah probably different in this instance, 5’8 to 6’1 is a big difference and the girl being 5’7 maybe. But I don’t think 5’10 would’ve been a different story.
no i know 510 wouldnt have been sufficient, but 511 would have been ok, she would have closed an eye for me.. also she might be 5,6 dont really remeber. doesnt even matter now shes gone..
most of the time really short girls tend to want tall guys..
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And yes Apo did LL and other plastic surgery from 5’7 to 6’1 and look what that got him. Did you see the “babes” in his video and his so called model girlfriend? All ugly girls, lmao.
are we sure can someone post a link of his video here pls?? i saw it on reddit the other day and they were guys over 6ft that were saying he looks perfect from a proportion point of view and didnt believe he had LL. when i looked at the video i saw that he doesnt have scars and his arms are very muscular, if you confront his body with other guys that did LL it looks more natural. his proportions are good and he looks very normal. makes me almost think he just baited a bunch of short guys and sold them to dr sarin. you know the internet is full of shills. even here on ll forum i think we have some shills.
i was going to do the surgery with dr guichet (have the funds) in 2015/16, thank god i didnt do it, seeing how that girl ended up.
i beleive the only docs that are decent here are paley and rozbruck ( mispelled)
dont trust anything coming from india. i would never get any advanced surgery there. beware of the shills.
[/quote]
Yes he did LL and it's really obvious to me from my eyes. His head is really small compared to people who are even shorter than him, and his torso is really short. Look at him play the piano and how bent over he is and how long his legs look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIDfQpPjYHU
No one in real life outside of this forum would ever question his proportions though. EVER. I promise never. I've just come back from a class with this 6'2 dude who was all legs, tiny tiny shoulders. Moreso than proportions I would worry about the mechanical problems of lengthening 5+ inches.
Also, so, who cares what short girls want? You realize they get drunk and give up their pussy for free every weekend to any knucklehead 5'8, 5'10, 6ft tall it doesn't really matter lmao. I want a girl who looks like Adriana Lima (but shorter though tbh :X) with the ass of Nicki Minaj but I don't see any girls doing that.
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if you look at 0.37 i think, when hes sitting down, he has perfect proportions, his legs dont seem to long. also it looks like he walks normally. theres a lack of recovery videos here, the only ones that have decent recovery vid is oldbutgodie ( i think his name was). the guichet patient with a short diary and videos in black and white could be a shill. remeber they get customers from here. i wouldnt trust any indian doc, wouldnt have any surgery done there, who knows how much medical fraud there could be there.
my only problem with LL is recovery, i dont want to walk wierd. walking wierd beats the purpose of the surgery.
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wrong there is a big difference, sorry to burst your bubble. im sorry, i know many short guys wont like hearing this but there is a huge diff between 6feet and 510. when women want a 6ft guy they fking want a 6ft guy. its retarded to think that women or other people cant or wont notice the difference. i believe that many guys under 5,6 think that being 510 would be the same as being 6ft, wrong!! what people dont understand here is that most women wont find attractive guys under 5,9 , some under 6ft. which is terrible news if your very short. (you can look at those twitter profiles where girls would be making fun of short guys saying stuff like: ''short guys are the sons of satan'' and like that. well they arent joking when they say that, you can take it as an example to understand how women feel about this. most women detest short guys. again sorry to say that. i have had gf from 16 to 22 and now im 26 and ive been without for 4yrs.. may girls/women wont consider dating guys under 510, height is important, its the most important aspect of a man, after the genitals. height, believe it or not is what makes you a man in the eyes of a woman.
You need to second-guess yourself when you're getting called height-obsessed in a CLL forum, of all places.
I doubt most women can tell 6 feet and 5'10 apart, specially depending on their height.
Finally I understand
At 5-9 you won't have any problems with your height with any girl except the 5-9+ minority. But at the same time you won't have the "attractiveness" that tall guys have (6ft+). And modelling standardized all of that, since most models are between 6ft and 6-4.
But 5-7+ girls is still a minority, everywhere. Even if I agree it can be a problem to date tall girls to be under 5-9
I share your view.
We mostly have to play with the cards we're given in life (or not; life is a bs game if you don't wanna 'play'). There's nothing wrong with wanting to better your hand through science, but some people here only want to play with perfect hands. That's no good. It's a mentality you'll have to get over in your lifetime, because your lifetime won't be enough to correct every negative aspect about yourself.
I'm not sure, I do think there is some "attractiveness" that tall guys have, but most of that is from having broad shoulders and long torsos, less so than their leg length really. It’s like girls under 5’5 having usually wider hips, nicer butts than taller girls. They are usually more attractive because of their hip to waist ratio rather than their heights.
I think a lot of people here underestimate how attractive longer legs can be, even if they seem "unnatural" or disproportional. There are many body parts that you can increase in each biological sxx, relative to their overall body size, and still have people find it more attractive, even if the whole is technically more disproportional now.
Good job on talking a lot of sense in this thread, though.
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I'd say this guy looks terrible. Small head, long limbs. Girls don't like that
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there is a huge diff between 6feet and 510.
Nope.
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Nope.
there is
at 5-10 there will still be some girls taller than you, not many but some
at 6ft it will start to be very uncommon
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Girls don't give as much importance to height as some of you guys in this forum do.
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This is next level brain gymnastics. 5'5 to 5'8 would be a much, much bigger difference than 5'8 to 5'11, much less 5'8 to 5'10. Go put on Timberland boots and go out a few nights and see how much difference 5'8 to 5'10 makes. Also, if you're doing this for women how good looking you are is a big factor as well. I know plenty of 5'8 guys who have no problem hooking up with hot girls, and I also know plenty of 6ft tall ugly guys who have never had a girl in their life. I think this place, and males in general, overestimate how important height is to women once you're like 3 inches taller than her. I would say after 5'9 your face and looks start mattering much much more than height unless you're like a 6'3 giant and you're going after that 10% of women who are height fetishists (just like you can be a steroid meathead and go after the 10% of women who are muscle fetishists).
But if you're 5'8 and getting rejected by like 5'3, 5'4 girls, I don't think you being 2 inches taller will really make a difference because she wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between someone of your height and someone 2 inches taller honestly, the aura is nearly the same. When standing next to my 5'7 friend I don't even feel that different, I look in the mirror and he doesn't look that much taller than me.
For example on Instagram body builder pages of guys who are like 5'10, 6'1 I see they will sometimes take photos with like 6'4, 6'5 giants and all the males are always commenting "Lol, he is so much bigger than you haha manlet!!!" or comments like this... Like lol, do you think the 6'1 guy truly cares? It is honestly a really retarded male point of view.
I put elevator shoes with lifts which give me 6cm added height when I go to clubs.
And the difference is huge compared to my 1.74 evening height.
At 1.80 I feel completely normal and no way short. So yes, 5.8 to 5.10-11 is a completely different world.
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In the end, everyone has their own opinions about this matter.
For me, it's balancing needs vs wants that guide how I view it.
And actually, a lot gets lost in discourse and context here. Like when Jexus and Body Builder were arguing. Both from different countries, with different cultures and average heights. Body Builder was 10cm shorter than his country's average. Jexus was around 4cm shorter. Their experiences can both contradict one another while both being true.
I am 3-4 cm less than my country's average .
There is no country out there with 1.84-5 average height for men so as to be 10cm less than average.
:D
But your point is valid.
@6cm. I agree so much with you that sometimes I think I read my posts!
You are comoletely right and I've written all these before.
5.8-9 are ok heights and you can live normally but on dating it is still a drawback. Anything less than average height is and to be honest, to have a benefit you should be 1-2 inches more than average which in most countries on west that height is 5.11. From my experience after 5.11-5 11,5 height stops to matter to at least 90% of women and will see your other traits. That means that if you are ugly or obese a good height won't make you successful on dating. But if you are better than average in all other aspects, a good height will make you have many successes with women. So simple.
And yes, what makes you a man in a womans eyes (in terms of appearance) is height and a built body (not like a bber, just with some muscles and not skinny type).
If you have these and a masculine face then you'll be lucky with women.
When I was 5.65 I couldn't believe that at 5.9 I'd still face problems with my heights on dating and thats why I can understand many short men here who don't believe our words. But as a man who became average from short, I know what I am talking about, much more than short men. And I insist that if you are completely average and a little more height will still be a problem when it comes to dating.
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The thing is man, what if you get another LL and still nothing changes? What if you become 5’11.5 and you are still rejected by girls or unsatisfied? Will you come on here and post truthfully what has happened? Also how can you justify the enormous cost?
I think your expectations were unrealistic from the get go. You’re never going to not be rejected. You’re probably less good looking than you think you are and you thought going from 5’6 to 5’9 would turn you into some Johnny Bravo babe magnet with big muscles. That’s just not going to happen. And going from 5'9 to 5'11 won't make it happen either, your success may increase like 10%, if that even.
Even at 5’9 your torso, head, chest, forearms are all smaller than those of a naturally 5’9 guy. I don’t care how much you work out, muscle will always look much worse than bone, sure it can substitute, but broad shoulders from traps and delts don’t look anywhere near as aesthetic as the kind you see on tall skinny guys naturally. And guess what? 5’9 is near average. So now you get to experience an average dating experience with odd body proportions. And guess what the average guy’s dating experience is? Hot trash. I mean probably 70% rejection rate.
I mean look at all the girls in apo’s video. Extremely low quality. Like I would kill myself if I ever dated any of those girls. And he was bragging about one of them being a model and being his girlfriend. him growing to 6’1 didn’t have that much effect, I guarantee he probably could’ve scored that girl at 5’7. Honestly I've never seen a worse advertisement video for LL. I mean dude goes through years of recovery for 15 cm of lengthening.. arm lengthening... and facial plastic surgery as well, all for that? lmfao.
So you’re going to spend another year of your life in recovery, now at middle age, in attempts to fix yourself up for some random whore who’s probably also in her thirties who has fked and dated lots of guys who are 6ft1, 6ft3. What about when she brings that up, will you LL to 6ft3 to?
Also, will you still be able to body build after that much LL, how are you even body building now?
Also on body mattering, lol I would say that’s very untrue at least not in my generation. I know maybe 3-4 guys who are real gym freak steroid heads and they get just as many matches as regular skinny guys on Tinder, even with photos of them shirtless. I think you are projecting male idealism of height and body into female eyes.
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While I don't agree with you on almost anything, I admire your tenacity honestly. You're clearly a really driven person and I do hope it works out for you. I would say that the most valuable thing you can acquire in this life is personal fulfillment and comfort with your own state of being, so if it brings you that, even if you are still rejected by girls and don't find the success you desire, I hope you can at least enjoy that.
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The thing is man, what if you get another LL and still nothing changes? What if you become 5’11.5 and you are still rejected by girls or unsatisfied? Will you come on here and post truthfully what has happened? Also how can you justify the enormous cost?
I think your expectations were unrealistic from the get go. You’re never going to not be rejected. You’re probably less good looking than you think you are and you thought going from 5’6 to 5’9 would turn you into some Johnny Bravo babe magnet with big muscles. That’s just not going to happen. And going from 5'9 to 5'11 won't make it happen either, your success may increase like 10%, if that even.
Even at 5’9 your torso, head, chest, forearms are all smaller than those of a naturally 5’9 guy. I don’t care how much you work out, muscle will always look much worse than bone, sure it can substitute, but broad shoulders from traps and delts don’t look anywhere near as aesthetic as the kind you see on tall skinny guys naturally. And guess what? 5’9 is near average. So now you get to experience an average dating experience with odd body proportions. And guess what the average guy’s dating experience is? Hot trash. I mean probably 70% rejection rate.
I mean look at all the girls in apo’s video. Extremely low quality. Like I would kill myself if I ever dated any of those girls. And he was bragging about one of them being a model and being his girlfriend. him growing to 6’1 didn’t have that much effect, I guarantee he probably could’ve scored that girl at 5’7. Honestly I've never seen a worse advertisement video for LL. I mean dude goes through years of recovery for 15 cm of lengthening.. arm lengthening... and facial plastic surgery as well, all for that? lmfao.
So you’re going to spend another year of your life in recovery, now at middle age, in attempts to fix yourself up for some random whore who’s probably also in her thirties who has fked and dated lots of guys who are 6ft1, 6ft3. What about when she brings that up, will you LL to 6ft3 to?
Also, will you still be able to body build after that much LL, how are you even body building now?
Also on body mattering, lol I would say that’s very untrue at least not in my generation. I know maybe 3-4 guys who are real gym freak steroid heads and they get just as many matches as regular skinny guys on Tinder, even with photos of them shirtless. I think you are projecting male idealism of height and body into female eyes.
I am good looking my friend and I collect many compliments about my face (my eyes and my lips especially). I'd love to hear even half of them for my body because I tried hard to built it, naturally (by working out) and artificially (LL).
And no, my LL didn't bothered my on my amateur bbing althoug I don't have a so good balance as before and I can't do heavy squats or deadlifts. But who cares, even without that I have 47cm arms and I wear L and XL shirts with a torso height of an 1.68 man. As you can understand my shoulders are broad and I have larger muscles than at least 90% of men. Wirhout taking roids.
At 32 when I plan to do my second LL I'll be still young and a good looking tall man at that age with a more than average income can have something much better than a 30yo whore with children as you mentioned. 30-35 is the golden age of a man and in that age he can have the best women he would in his whole life. So I really don't believe I'll be old for LL, man nowadays are considered relatiely old after 45 years.
And about your question, how do I know that at 5.11 my successes will be more. Because all the good looking women I know are with men of that heights (5.10,5 to 6.2-3). And from every conversation I had with women they saw men taller than 5.11 as tall ones, men from 5.9-5.10 as just normal, men about 5.8 as shortish but dateable only if they like them in all other aspects and everything less than that as a no way. So 5.11 is the golden border when height starts to become a positive trait and no woman will think about it as a negative.
And I see it with my own eyes the times I wear my elevator shoes. I am a completely different man for women, they look at me a lot, they smile at me, they are open for a talk etc. But with my normal shoes I am almost invisible.
So yes, 5.11 will make a difference for me, it is not ideal as 6-6.1 heights but it is still a very good height.
After all I don't need to be perfect, I just want to be better than average in anything and I lack only on height.
As about your second post, yes, self fulfillment is the most important thing for anyone. And personally I can only achive it if I go out on the street and I am taller, even a little, or about the same, of the majority of men. And without another LL I can't achieve it because I am tired of cheating myself and other people about my height by wearing my elevator shoes and gibe an impression different of what I really am and always be afraid if my gf understands that I am shorter than she sees me whem we go out (as I always wear 3cm lifts even if I wear normal shoes).
So another LL will really help me subjectively and objectively thats why I am very determined to do it.
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Also on body mattering, lol I would say that’s very untrue at least not in my generation. I know maybe 3-4 guys who are real gym freak steroid heads and they get just as many matches as regular skinny guys on Tinder, even with photos of them shirtless. I think you are projecting male idealism of height and body into female eyes.
I agree. You're projecting onto female mind your manly gym ideals. Girls don't care that much about muscles, and about height... Most girls are shorter than 5'4. As long as the guy is taller than them in heels it's ok for them. Appeareance matters but most girls don't like gym freaks. Nice guys, average or above average height, with average or above average facial aesthetics are usually preferred over narcissistic shirtless gym freaks.
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Girls don't care that much about muscles, and about height... Most girls are shorter than 5'4. As long as the guy is taller than them in heels it's ok for them.
5'4" guy here, my last ex was the shortest at 5'2" and was the least accepting of my height. Tallest at 5'7" cared the least. Funny how that works!
About shirtless photos, even though women love to hate it, it's a myth that it doesn't work in online dating (https://theblog.okcupid.com/the-4-big-myths-of-profile-pictures-41bedf26e4d). Women's tastes in men change as they age, and shirtlessness is less desired over time, but it still has an advantage over not having a shirtless photo if you have the six pack. As much as we want to believe that men are the ones hung up on looks, women too like to window shop.
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The only "assertions" I've made are pointing out the criteria that psychiatrists use to diagnose "BDD" in patients. I'm not making value judgments or giving ultimatums, unlike you:
Yeah, and you were completely wrong. Psychosis/literally seeing yourself as something you aren't is *not* required for a diagnosis in BDD.
You're not a psychiatrist, and aren't qualified to make this assertion. Neither do you have the right to be judge and jury as to what constitutes being "sick" or not. Hypocrite.
It's common sense. Mental illness is subjective & depends on societal norms. If you fail to adapt to the society you're born into to the point that you cannot function properly, you're mentally ill until you either change your behavior or move to a new environment where your behavior/beliefs are considered normal (if such a place exists). Even if I'm not qualified it's an opinion that's shared by plenty of experts in the field.
My "psychiatry" wasn't "subsidized by society", you presumptuous imbecile. When I did visit a therapist, I paid out of pocket. "Society" didn't have anything to do with it.
Good, so you're not a complete bum. Well done.
LMFAO at trying to portray me as a dangerous villain and "society" (i.e. you) as innocent victims. You're trash.
I would rather die than contribute anything to scum like you.
I'm just pointing out how it works. And although I'm not saying you're a villain, you're clearly unhinged, at least for now.
But when society discriminates and oppresses short people to the point that they end up in psychiatrist's offices, or on forums like this one, or even committing suicide, and then get shamed for demanding solutions, they're expected to "suck it up" and "contribute to society" - the same society that caused their problem in the first place, and that deal totally works, right?
If society causes people to develop height dysphoria by way of its bigoted and discriminatory standards, then it should pay the price to the people it victimizes. Oppressors do not have the right to demand "something out of the deal".
I see successful short men every day. Literally all my bosses, all the way up to the Senator are shorter than me. There are so many short men that are so much more successful than me in every possible way. If you're average to low average & you're not happy with your life, it's more than likely you. Not your height. You're going to be devastated when you become a bit taller & realize everything is exactly how it was before, other than you're now scarred, a lot poorer, & a lot less mobile. Btw if your idea of success boils down to just matching with a few more sluts on tinder like a lot of others on here seem to think, you're a fking loser.
LOL. You moralizing piece of garbage. Who do you think you are to lecture other people on "conscience" when you callously demand that the oppressed pay their oppressors for the privilege of being oppressed by them?
Why the inverted commas? If your conscience doesn't compel you to look after those that have looked after you, you are morally deficient. In my opinion. Also lol @ calling me a commie before & now using Marxist distinctions like "oppressed" and "oppressors".
I don't "owe" anyone anything. This post by myloginacct perfectly sums up my thoughts on this matter:
No, and I can't prove that you do either. It's a feeling you either have or don't. If you don't think you do, whatever, just don't cry when you're judged for it. Not a boomer btw, I'm 29.
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I think you generally make reasonable posts in other threads, Thatdude, but I think you're off the mark here. I'm guessing it's the effect of being a good height (175cm+) and having lived a mostly normal life with normal parents? Excuse me for assuming if I'm wrong.
What subsidized psychiatry? Most of us outside of Europe had to struggle a lot of years trying to find help and then had to pay out of our pocket for it. Do you mean how government funds research for science?
In my country it's subsidized, so that was a misfire by me.
Parents owe a responsibility to their kids for making a conscious decision to put them in this world. Again, I'm guessing you were lucky enough to have had a mostly normal life with caring parents. That's great. That being the case, you'll definitely feel indebted and grateful to them. That's not how anyone who grew up in an abusive household feels.
You're right- if I had been abused/mistreated, I probably would not feel the same way, at least toward my parents. I'm sure there would be someone else in my life that had helped me a lot though that may one day rely on me. But that's a separate issue.
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Captain America,stop lying to yourself
If height wasn't that important,none of us wouldn't here willing to do LL,including you
It is well known that women prefer tall mens,taller mens get better jobs and are better paid,are more respected and usually better looking(cloths fit better on longer legs).Tall guys have too many advantages compared to medium guys,figure out shortish one and it is unfair since noone can work on his height
Unlike you claimed,from 5.10 to 6.1 is indeed a big difference
If the 5.10 guy has nice body,carisma and good social skills,achieving also the height benefit would allow him to have the game at 120%
As I said before,I believe that at 5.11 height stops to being a drawback.From 6 ft to 6.2/6.3 height is a benefit.Anything above no more
So we can continue to loose time debating if the earth is round or we can try to change our drawbacks and to live at maximum potential,going on with our lives
I agree with Bodybuilder at 100% on this topic and anyone denying this is living in his own world or in denial
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Lmfao believe whatever you want mate. By the reasoning you give I can tell you're legitimately retarded and there's
no point in wasting my time arguing with you. Go ahead and get LL and enjoy that big "bonus" you think you will get in going from 5'10 to 6'1. I will be waiting here for when you are too sheepish to make a thread on how your life has literally not changed at all. There is a difference for legitimate short males but not for anyone else, sorry, and even that difference is pretty minuscule honestly.
It is well known that women prefer tall mens,taller mens get better jobs and are better paid,are more respected and usually better looking(cloths fit better on longer legs).Tall guys have too many advantages compared to medium guys,figure out shortish one and it is unfair since noone can work on his height
Spoken like a true genius.
If the 5.10 guy has nice body,carisma and good social skills,achieving also the height benefit would allow him to have the game at 120%
So you're saying Brad Pitt is not living life at 120% because he is 5'10? His life would literally not even be 1% different if he was 6'1. Also no one cares about body FFS, quit being retarded. You are all just ugly and or awkward guys who think that being 6'1 and working out will turn you into chick magnets and give you respect from other males, and that just won't happen. You won't be playing the game at 120%, you will be playing the same exact damn game and deluding yourself into thinking that anything has changed. I mean just look at Apo lmao, you think he's really winning at life now at 6'1 with his ugly wife and kids? He probably could've done the exact same at 5'6.
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I always have been polite so try to don't make free insults
Maybe retard are you since you are not even able to read what I have wrote:I said that LL is useful for those that are already good with womens and have nice social skills,good body ecc
If you were a loser before LL,you will be also after
And seriously are you taking Apotheosis as an example ?
A guy that has done the ridiculous ammount of 20 cms (and other surgeries like hair transplant) looking now like a freak
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It is well known that women prefer tall mens,taller mens get better jobs and are better paid,are more respected and usually better looking(cloths fit better on longer legs).
It is well known that women prefer tall mens,taller mens get better jobs
known that women prefer tall mens,taller mens
tall mens,taller mens
...
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/e2/e2d278c546432c8b0a30ce8982752deb56d0249aff996c923378fdf2524a5981.jpg)
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Cheap shot. Not everyone is fluent, unnecessary scrutiny.
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...
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/e2/e2d278c546432c8b0a30ce8982752deb56d0249aff996c923378fdf2524a5981.jpg)
Not everyone here is a native english speaker.
So stay on point and don't insult someone for that reasons unless you want anyone to speak here on his native language like some Chinese did before some months.
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I am 3-4 cm less than my country's average .
There is no country out there with 1.84-5 average height for men so as to be 10cm less than average.
:D
But your point is valid.
I meant your original height. If I recall correctly, you were 10cm shorter than your country's average. That's a bigger difference than Jexus' was, since he is from Turkey, where the average height is shorter.
As long as the guy is taller than them in heels it's ok for them.
This is such a bs requirement, and it doesn't help at all. This is why I advocate using elevator shoes if you're going to be in any kind of environment where most women are on heels. It should be a game for two.
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In my country it's subsidized, so that was a misfire by me.
You're right- if I had been abused/mistreated, I probably would not feel the same way, at least toward my parents. I'm sure there would be someone else in my life that had helped me a lot though that may one day rely on me. But that's a separate issue.
Maybe friends would be the better example in this instance, rather than society or parents.
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:-X
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Well, so I measured me tonight and I'm 170, so exactly 5-7 (I don't know how I could have measured myself 171,5 earlier why it's what I'm at morning) and I can say that 5-7 is not a common height for girls. I have been in some european countries, always have been taller than at least 90 % of girls, in France it's very uncommon to see a girl taller (let say I'm taller than 95 % of them) than me. I have sneakers, so giving me 3 cm so I'm about 173 in streets. Guys putting me one head (so about 6-5) are about 1 %, even in tall average countries I visited.
At least I'm sure that I'm that at my lowest, I will take it as my starting height before LL.
At the same time, it make me think that at least 80 % (or maybe more because I remember a guy pretending to be 170 while he had his eyes at my chin, and it's common) of people IRL lie about their height if I'm 5-7 (and I am that at my lowest). I start to think that real french average is about 5-7, or even less because sometimes I can even feel taller than most people. That's strange, so many lie about height. So now I can say I never saw a girl taller than 185 cm, 185 cm is very uncommon, I doubt that dutch average is 184 cm even more. But why all these lie, that's what I don't understand. When I see that someone like Rob Paul (from celebheights) is 173,5 cm at night while he looks like a midget, it's hard. I never feld as short as him while I'm 3 cm shorter than him.
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^Sounds right. I can say at 181cm I'm taller than 75-80% of men in the office and nearly all (95%) of women. The average is probably 175cm or so. I can't tell much of a difference from 173 - 177. 173cm in shoes is not a bad height at all. There's a small percentage of women that will feel a lot bigger than you, but they're the outliers-- not you.
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^Sounds right. I can say at 181cm I'm taller than 75-80% of men in the office and nearly all (95%) of women. The average is probably 175cm or so. I can't tell much of a difference from 173 - 177. 173cm in shoes is not a bad height at all. There's a small percentage of women that will feel a lot bigger than you, but they're the outliers-- not you.
with 181 in France you would be taller than 85-90 % of men. And the funny facts it that some studies try to make us believe that average is about 180 cm ... it's even more hard for me to believe models and sportsmen official height. I never saw a 6-7 guy now, I'm sure of it
I guess that the really height of someone like Karlie Kloss is 5-11, Barack Obama about 5-11 too -far from 6-1 for sure-
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Well, so I measured me tonight and I'm 170, so exactly 5-7 (I don't know how I could have measured myself 171,5 earlier why it's what I'm at morning) and I can say that 5-7 is not a common height for girls. I have been in some european countries, always have been taller than at least 90 % of girls, in France it's very uncommon to see a girl taller (let say I'm taller than 95 % of them) than me. I have sneakers, so giving me 3 cm so I'm about 173 in streets. Guys putting me one head (so about 6-5) are about 1 %, even in tall average countries I visited.
At least I'm sure that I'm that at my lowest, I will take it as my starting height before LL.
At the same time, it make me think that at least 80 % (or maybe more because I remember a guy pretending to be 170 while he had his eyes at my chin, and it's common) of people IRL lie about their height if I'm 5-7 (and I am that at my lowest). I start to think that real french average is about 5-7, or even less because sometimes I can even feel taller than most people. That's strange, so many lie about height. So now I can say I never saw a girl taller than 185 cm, 185 cm is very uncommon, I doubt that dutch average is 184 cm even more. But why all these lie, that's what I don't understand. When I see that someone like Rob Paul (from celebheights) is 173,5 cm at night while he looks like a midget, it's hard. I never feld as short as him while I'm 3 cm shorter than him.
You measured yourself in the evening or what? There is difference between morning and evening height. You better measure yourself in the morning
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You measured yourself in the evening or what? There is difference between morning and evening height. You better measure yourself in the morning
I'm 1,5 cm taller in the morning, so it's my evening height. I looked tonight -it's night in Europe- and I'm the same or even slighty above it. Morning height is a cheat, as you loose fastly those centimeters. Better considerating the minimal height.
Also I just went to the short people d from reddit, and finally noticed that most people there were (pretending at least) very tall. I mean a 6-5 tall girl (something I never seen in my life) as moderator, most active users are 189, 177 and 195. Lol, I feel that I live in another world. And it's not the tall people d, it's for the short guys. Same for the website Celebheights : most active users are Canson (6-5, pretending that his friends are both 6-6 and 6-7), SJH (6-5'5) and another guy pretending to be more that 6-7. So it's me or tall people are more insecure ? because that's not common height
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Well, so I measured me tonight and I'm 170, so exactly 5-7 (I don't know how I could have measured myself 171,5 earlier why it's what I'm at morning) and I can say that 5-7 is not a common height for girls. I have been in some european countries, always have been taller than at least 90 % of girls, in France it's very uncommon to see a girl taller (let say I'm taller than 95 % of them) than me. I have sneakers, so giving me 3 cm so I'm about 173 in streets. Guys putting me one head (so about 6-5) are about 1 %, even in tall average countries I visited.
At least I'm sure that I'm that at my lowest, I will take it as my starting height before LL.
At the same time, it make me think that at least 80 % (or maybe more because I remember a guy pretending to be 170 while he had his eyes at my chin, and it's common) of people IRL lie about their height if I'm 5-7 (and I am that at my lowest). I start to think that real french average is about 5-7, or even less because sometimes I can even feel taller than most people. That's strange, so many lie about height. So now I can say I never saw a girl taller than 185 cm, 185 cm is very uncommon, I doubt that dutch average is 184 cm even more. But why all these lie, that's what I don't understand. When I see that someone like Rob Paul (from celebheights) is 173,5 cm at night while he looks like a midget, it's hard. I never feld as short as him while I'm 3 cm shorter than him.
In my country (south Europe) there are many women (maybe the majority) at 1.70 (+- 3cm).
At 1.70 I would have felt that I am about average for a woman, maybe a slight taller.
At 1.74 I am now (evening height as you talked about that) I am taller than thw vast majority of women but not enough so most of them would have been about my height with heels on so at night places (clubs, bars) I feel about the same height with many women (more than 60-70%).
Only my mighty elevator shoes than (with some small lifts on) give me a full 6cm added height can make me erase that disadvantage but still I don't feel like you say.
Maybe at your country people are shorter than mines' I don't know.
And yes, tall men are stupidly insecure about their heights.
And I say stupidly because they have no reason. It does not matter if you are 6ft or 6.2 unless you are so stupid to think that being like a tree and make all people asking you if you play basketball is some kind of comliment. It is not.
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In my country (south Europe) there are many women (maybe the majority) at 1.70 (+- 3cm).
At 1.70 I would have felt that I am about average for a woman, maybe a slight taller.
At 1.74 I am now (evening height as you talked about that) I am taller than thw vast majority of women but not enough so most of them would have been about my height with heels on so at night places (clubs, bars) I feel about the same height with many women (more than 60-70%).
Only my mighty elevator shoes than (with some small lifts on) give me a full 6cm added height can make me erase that disadvantage but still I don't feel like you say.
Maybe at your country people are shorter than mines' I don't know.
And yes, tall men are stupidly insecure about their heights.
And I say stupidly because they have no reason. It does not matter if you are 6ft or 6.2 unless you are so stupid to think that being like a tree and make all people asking you if you play basketball is some kind of comliment. It is not.
I exactly found something like 170,5 and 173,5 in shoes
I won't talk about countries average again. I just say it like that, every countries I visited I was at least 5cm taller than female average, mostly something like 8-10 cm. Official female average in my country is 163 cm, I guess it's a bit less like 160. I know that people in my country are a bit shorter than their neighbors (Belgian and German) but I don't think they are about 10 cm shorter than them.
At 5'9 I would have feel much better, I admit it. But it's rather psychological. I read and hear everywhere, anywhere IRL or IVL that 5-7 is a dwarf height and under it you are not even existant. Sometimes by guys who are clearly shorter than me by some good centimeters. And I've been described as a "tall" guy sometimes. I admit it's problably because my morphology : long arms, small head, thin. But I have been and it's funny. How many times I've seen girls pretending that she couldn't date a guy under 5'11.
In my family people lies a lot too. I'm at one level I'm not even able to guess people height, because if I use my height as reference people are all 5cm shorter (at least) than their claim.
And about tall people, yes I don't understand it. I guess it's rather people that overestimate their height. But especially in the USA, there is a culture around height that people call heightism here (especially into journalism, sport, cinema). American people are not tall, but they think they are. In internet I feel that there is only tall guys. I go on /short/ on reddit and I see more tall people than short. Even here, we recently had a 6-2 guy wanting to do LL. I don't even understand how you can know the existence of LL at that height.
USA is clearly the only country where being (very) tall will make you rich and famous (especially in NBA). Shawn Bradley wouldn't have been rich in Germany.
I will do LL and enjoy my life. Just asking myself how I will be able to pay. I guess it's the problem for many people here. 20k is ok, a lot but ok, but for internals it's another question
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I exactly found something like 170,5 and 173,5 in shoes
I won't talk about countries average again. I just say it like that, every countries I visited I was at least 5cm taller than female average, mostly something like 8-10 cm. Official female average in my country is 163 cm, I guess it's a bit less like 160. I know that people in my country are a bit shorter than their neighbors (Belgian and German) but I don't think they are about 10 cm shorter than them.
At 5'9 I would have feel much better, I admit it. But it's rather psychological. I read and hear everywhere, anywhere IRL or IVL that 5-7 is a dwarf height and under it you are not even existant. Sometimes by guys who are clearly shorter than me by some good centimeters. And I've been described as a "tall" guy sometimes. I admit it's problably because my morphology : long arms, small head, thin. But I have been and it's funny. How many times I've seen girls pretending that she couldn't date a guy under 5'11.
In my family people lies a lot too. I'm at one level I'm not even able to guess people height, because if I use my height as reference people are all 5cm shorter (at least) than their claim.
And about tall people, yes I don't understand it. I guess it's rather people that overestimate their height. But especially in the USA, there is a culture around height that people call heightism here (especially into journalism, sport, cinema). American people are not tall, but they think they are. In internet I feel that there is only tall guys. I go on /short/ on reddit and I see more tall people than short. Even here, we recently had a 6-2 guy wanting to do LL. I don't even understand how you can know the existence of LL at that height.
USA is clearly the only country where being (very) tall will make you rich and famous (especially in NBA). Shawn Bradley wouldn't have been rich in Germany.
I will do LL and enjoy my life. Just asking myself how I will be able to pay. I guess it's the problem for many people here. 20k is ok, a lot but ok, but for internals it's another question
Nowhere in EU the girls average is not 1.60 as you mention.
In my country the official statistics are 1.66 for women and 1.78 for men (of all ages).
For new generations it is easily 1-2 cm more, especially for women.
Also I've never been described as tall at 1.75, most of the times people see me as normal height but generally big (due to my muscles) but many women find me shorter than they'd like.
I can't understand how someone could see an 1.70 man like you as tall.
I am not saying you are lying, I just can't think of it.
FinallybI agree about tall men and LL. They are simply lunatics but who cares.
What matters is for short and close to average people like us to become taller and stop having height drawbacks.
For lunatics of any kind psychiatrist is the only solution.
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Nowhere in EU the girls average is not 1.60 as you mention.
In my country the official statistics are 1.66 for women and 1.78 for men (of all ages).
For new generations it is easily 1-2 cm more, especially for women.
Also I've never been described as tall at 1.75, most of the times people see me as normal height but generally big (due to my muscles) but many women find me shorter than they'd like.
I can't understand how someone could see an 1.70 man like you as tall.
I am not saying you are lying, I just can't think of it.
FinallybI agree about tall men and LL. They are simply lunatics but who cares.
What matters is for short and close to average people like us to become taller and stop having height drawbacks.
For lunatics of any kind psychiatrist is the only solution.
I told it, it's mostly my morphology. And it's because they were shorter than me.
So 168 cm for girls in Europe ? I really doubt about it. Even 166 is very doubtful (for my country). It's not studies or stats, it's just what I feel. I never visited your country, I don't have opinion about it.
I know a 176 cm girl (from another country where the average is taller / Slovakia) and she is much taller than every girl even there and in Czech Republic. I have seen some taller girls, like 5'11 and 6ft for the tallest but it's really uncommon.
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(https://i.redd.it/ksv2m8rrkxzz.png)
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(https://i.redd.it/ksv2m8rrkxzz.png)
Spain and the fight against the odds.
But I know it's not like that chart, anyway. Iberians tend to come either 170cm ish or taller than 180cm, for some reason. It seems like there's way less of in-between heights.
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Well, so I measured me tonight and I'm 170, so exactly 5-7 (I don't know how I could have measured myself 171,5 earlier why it's what I'm at morning) and I can say that 5-7 is not a common height for girls. I have been in some european countries, always have been taller than at least 90 % of girls, in France it's very uncommon to see a girl taller (let say I'm taller than 95 % of them) than me. I have sneakers, so giving me 3 cm so I'm about 173 in streets. Guys putting me one head (so about 6-5) are about 1 %, even in tall average countries I visited.
At least I'm sure that I'm that at my lowest, I will take it as my starting height before LL.
At the same time, it make me think that at least 80 % (or maybe more because I remember a guy pretending to be 170 while he had his eyes at my chin, and it's common) of people IRL lie about their height if I'm 5-7 (and I am that at my lowest). I start to think that real french average is about 5-7, or even less because sometimes I can even feel taller than most people. That's strange, so many lie about height. So now I can say I never saw a girl taller than 185 cm, 185 cm is very uncommon, I doubt that dutch average is 184 cm even more. But why all these lie, that's what I don't understand. When I see that someone like Rob Paul (from celebheights) is 173,5 cm at night while he looks like a midget, it's hard. I never feld as short as him while I'm 3 cm shorter than him.
Also, I think you may be measuring yourself wrongly, because 1.70 seems like it'd feel short for modern Europe outside of Portugal and regions of Spain. It's still a normal and perfectly livable height, though. Ideally, schedule something with an orthopedist (so you can be professionally measured you with a stadiometer) and settle the matter.
I do agree on the fact that a true 173cm at night is already almost a good height, if you know how to work with it. Those 3cms make a big difference. I think life is easier for men taller than 175cm, but it's nothing that can't be equally compensated by building a better physique and other traits about yourself after you're already out of "short" territory.
Europe also does seem to have this weird thing where the men are much taller than the women. I don't understand how men in all these European countries can average over 175cm (at least) while their women average under 170cm (at the most). There are countries like Norway where the men supposedly average 180cm, and the women, 165cm. A 15cm difference. The biological genders seem to be closer in height elsewhere. In other countries, the difference seems to be more around 8cm.
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Also, I think you may be measuring yourself wrongly, because 1.70 seems like it'd feel short for modern Europe outside of Portugal and regions of Spain. It's still a normal and perfectly livable height, though. Ideally, schedule something with an orthopedist (so you can be professionally measured you with a stadiometer) and settle the matter.
I do agree on the fact that a true 173cm at night is already almost a good height, if you know how to work with it. Those 3cms make a big difference. I think life is easier for men taller than 175cm, but it's nothing that can't be equally compensated by building a better physique and other traits about yourself after you're already out of "short" territory.
Europe also does seem to have this weird thing where the men are much taller than the women. I don't understand how men in all these European countries can average over 175cm (at least) while their women average under 170cm (at the most). There are countries like Norway where the men supposedly average 180cm, and the women, 165cm. A 15cm difference. The biological genders seem to be closer in height elsewhere. In other countries, the difference seems to be more around 8cm.
Are you spanish ?
and no, I measured me well. I'm 5-7. 100 %
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Europe also does seem to have this weird thing where the men are much taller than the women. I don't understand how men in all these European countries can average over 175cm (at least) while their women average under 170cm (at the most). There are countries like Norway where the men supposedly average 180cm, and the women, 165cm. A 15cm difference. The biological genders seem to be closer in height elsewhere. In other countries, the difference seems to be more around 8cm.
Can you share some personal observations of places where men and women are closer together in height? I'm curious.
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https://imgur.com/a/JTgOl
watching it like that I could look 171, but whatever. Sorry for the quality, I put the 5-7 mark in red
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https://imgur.com/a/JTgOl
watching it like that I could look 171, but whatever. Sorry for the quality, I put the 5-7 mark in red
That looks like a terrible way to measure it. I'd probably lose 3cms like that.
Try marking 170, 171, 172 and 173cm on a wall after you're 100% sure the tape is measuring correctly from the ground and up, then compare yourself (with proper posture).
Can you share some personal observations of places where men and women are closer together in height? I'm curious.
I'll PM you later.
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For me, the reason is that I want to stand taller than the mediocre majoritity as much as possible. I want to force even more people to have to look up at me than already do. And I want to be able to look down at more people than I already do.
I'm not concerned about doing better with women or other areas of life since I already do great in all those areas. At best I expect only a marginal improvement in those areas, but that's fine.
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For me, the reason is that I want to stand taller than the mediocre majoritity as much as possible. I want to force even more people to have to look up at me than already do. And I want to be able to look down at more people than I already do.
I'm not concerned about doing better with women or other areas of life since I already do great in all those areas. At best I expect only a marginal improvement in those areas, but that's fine.
I suggest investing in these, rather than CLL, so you can overcome that mediocre "majoritity".
(http://www.toledoblade.com/image/2008/05/06/600x600/Michigan-man-tackles-tall-task-on-stilts-3.jpg)
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First of all, please excuse me for my poor English, I'm not a native one.
Actually, I'm a good looking guy in my early 30 with a varying height problem. Why varying? Simply because I'm not extremely short, and because it often depends on the context.
I'm about 174cm (5'8.5), officially measured by a doctor 5-6 years before at midday (I've a better posture from this time, doing lot of sport and stretching, so maybe one more cm now ?). I actually wear, most of the time, a 2cm (0.75in) 'little help' in my shoes pushing me to 176cm (5'9.3) and feel a lot better, and with a good posture, people often think I am about 177-178cm (5'10).
It depends on the context firstly because I'm from a family of short people (thanks God I'm the taller one!). My brother is only 168cm (5'6.1), my father 170cm (5'7), my sister 153cm (5'0.2) and my mother was 160cm (5'3). So in my young age, taller people (like my 187cm (6'2) brother in law) were an exception and I was not feeling any pain (I remember when I was a child I was even thinking, "I wish I will be 1m75 when I grow up"...).
Things changed when entering in high school. At this time I was about 172cm (7'7.75) I think, wearing super-flat shoes and with a bad posture, and most of the other guys appeared to me as some sort of a new powerful race of giants : most of them were more than 180cm (5'11) and sometimes even 190cm (6'3). It was a first painful feeling for me to be closer to girls than boys.
Two years after, I met my wife. My wife is of course perfect in every ways... 'but' she is 178cm (5'10.1), and from a fkg family of this new 'race of giants'. In this family (which I love, don't worry), girls are 174 (5'8.5), 176 (5'9.3) and 178cm (5'10.1), which is pretty big for girls (just imagine with their 5 to 8cm high heels...), and the men are between 183cm (6ft) to about 187 (6'2), every-one with super good posture. Even the old grandpa was a 185cm (6'1) super-muscular and good posture person. It was my second painful feeling, because I was not even at the same height of girls, and they were sometimes joking about it (gently, very gently, but you know...).
There were many other painful feeling from those two firsts. Young students at university, some trips in Denmark, Germany and Netherland (welcomed by some 175-180cm girls and a 195cm guy, ha-ha thank you), some situations like at the gym when you think you are building a powerful body until you compare with a giant who makes you look like a manlet...
Sometimes I'm close to heal this feeling and feel better for some months. Sometimes I feel good with my height (with the 2cm help in my shoes however). However, sometimes I fall into a new long and painful period, like last weeks. I had a rendezvous with my 178cm (5'10.1) wife, a day she wore 8cm (~3in) heels, who was accompanied by three of her friends : two 175-176cm (~5'9) girls and a super-tall guy of about 2m (6'6 to 6'7), for going to an evening at the opera which was only for younger people (less than 40 years old). And I don't know if it was because of a super-Alpha-rich-and-healthy-superior-young-class, but it was just INSANE, almost everybody was towering me, even girls were often more than 170-175cm and wearing super high-heels (I've even seen 2 or 3 girls at about 185cm) and young guys were super often at 185-190cm+... I was literally swimming in a canyon, i'm pretty sure you understand what i mean. My wife and her friends were in the good shape, not me at all.
So, even if a remember that in my country average men height is about 176cm (5'9.3) and that I have to force myself to feel 'almost normal', I know and I surely feel that it's really not anymore the case and that the young generation is fkgly giant for many of them (of course i have some smaller friends too, i don't deny, but you know...). Problem is that I'm living everyday with those young people.
Therefore, that is why it is varying all the time. But most of the time it remains painful, even if I'm really not a very small guy (in theory).
And as you know, internet never helps. Even for finding some girls : even if you looks handsome, charming and intelligent, if your bio says '1m76' of something like that, most girls will think 'not bad but i surely can find taller' (especially beautiful ones which have a lot of choices). But more than internet, it's my real-life experience which is driving me into this painful feeling for 12 years now, not only a virtual experience.
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(sorry for double post, it's a mistake)
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I don't think that being 5'7" is a deterrent in life and I think i'd be able to accomplish everything I set out to do if I wanted to..
However I have an extreme height complex and mental issues do to me being smaller than most people...I feel it's psychological in a way but it's also definitely effected the respect I receive both socially and professionally. Like i'm less taken seriously and i'm not intimidating whatsoever (Not that I want to be) but i'd at least like to be respected.
I understand completely that people who are 5'4" would love to be my height and may need surgery (multiple surgeries) to get here. Although every case is different. I want to change every part of my life to my satisfaction while I can when i'm here on this earth.
I am deeply dissatisfied with being my height and I am obsessed with thinking about it. In my opinion it's a great investment for my mind to move on and focus on other things so I can be happy. I will never truly be happy at this height. There is nothing a psychologist can say to fix me. They do not know my reality. I envy others at my height that are fine.
And btw an ACTUAL 5'9" is not small socially or objectively. The problem is that most guys who are 5'7", 5'8" claim to be 5'9" and it gets engrained in their head. I claimed 5'9" forever and nobody questioned it. The reality is that if people were really 5'9" they'd claim 5'10" or 5'11" and be more satisfied. So alot of it is mental I understand but it doesn't make it any better on my brain.
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I don't think that being 5'7" is a deterrent in life and I think i'd be able to accomplish everything I set out to do if I wanted to..
However I have an extreme height complex and mental issues do to me being smaller than most people...I feel it's psychological in a way but it's also definitely effected the respect I receive both socially and professionally. Like i'm less taken seriously and i'm not intimidating whatsoever (Not that I want to be) but i'd at least like to be respected.
I understand completely that people who are 5'4" would love to be my height and may need surgery (multiple surgeries) to get here. Although every case is different. I want to change every part of my life to my satisfaction while I can when i'm here on this earth.
I am deeply dissatisfied with being my height and I am obsessed with thinking about it. In my opinion it's a great investment for my mind to move on and focus on other things so I can be happy. I will never truly be happy at this height. There is nothing a psychologist can say to fix me. They do not know my reality. I envy others at my height that are fine.
And btw an ACTUAL 5'9" is not small socially or objectively. The problem is that most guys who are 5'7", 5'8" claim to be 5'9" and it gets engrained in their head. I claimed 5'9" forever and nobody questioned it. The reality is that if people were really 5'9" they'd claim 5'10" or 5'11" and be more satisfied. So alot of it is mental I understand but it doesn't make it any better on my brain.
Hey, man, that's fine. Take it easy and take your own time to figure this out.
But of course, do proper research and self-reflecting before throwing yourself at the cheapest doctor available.
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I don't think that being 5'7" is a deterrent in life and I think i'd be able to accomplish everything I set out to do if I wanted to..
However I have an extreme height complex and mental issues do to me being smaller than most people...I feel it's psychological in a way but it's also definitely effected the respect I receive both socially and professionally. Like i'm less taken seriously and i'm not intimidating whatsoever (Not that I want to be) but i'd at least like to be respected.
I understand completely that people who are 5'4" would love to be my height and may need surgery (multiple surgeries) to get here. Although every case is different. I want to change every part of my life to my satisfaction while I can when i'm here on this earth.
I am deeply dissatisfied with being my height and I am obsessed with thinking about it. In my opinion it's a great investment for my mind to move on and focus on other things so I can be happy. I will never truly be happy at this height. There is nothing a psychologist can say to fix me. They do not know my reality. I envy others at my height that are fine.
And btw an ACTUAL 5'9" is not small socially or objectively. The problem is that most guys who are 5'7", 5'8" claim to be 5'9" and it gets engrained in their head. I claimed 5'9" forever and nobody questioned it. The reality is that if people were really 5'9" they'd claim 5'10" or 5'11" and be more satisfied. So alot of it is mental I understand but it doesn't make it any better on my brain.
I'm also 5'7,but I work around guys who are over 6'0. I definitely know what you mean,I can't help compare my height to someone else whenever another guy approaches me.I'm always mentally thinking how many more inches taller is he compared to me? I really feel like this whole thing is just getting worse and worse with time. Hopefully i'll have ll done by 2020,I want to be atleast 5'11 not sure how realistic that is though.
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I'm also 5'7,but I work around guys who are over 6'0. I definitely know what you mean,I can't help compare my height to someone else whenever another guy approaches me.I'm always mentally thinking how many more inches taller is he compared to me? I really feel like this whole thing is just getting worse and worse with time. Hopefully i'll have ll done by 2020,I want to be atleast 5'11 not sure how realistic that is though.
It's not realistic with just one segment. You'd risk losing even more height by becoming wheelchair-bound. You'd be doing either 10cm on tibias or femurs.
Take what you can get. Be realistic. We can't have everything we want in life.
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It's not realistic with just one segment. You'd risk losing even more height by becoming wheelchair-bound. You'd be doing either 10cm on tibias or femurs.
Take what you can get. Be realistic. We can't have everything we want in life.
Well I'm not just going to take anything and settle with it. I mean the sum amount required to do the operation I want to get as much as possible,Yes I'm also aware multiple segments would be required.
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Well I'm not just going to take anything and settle with it. I mean the sum amount required to do the operation I want to get as much as possible,Yes I'm also aware multiple segments would be required.
From my understanding alot of it is a gametime decision depending on how your body is reacting and recovering during the lengthening phase
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You make a lot of valid points. But heightism lookism and racism ..women face those discrimination as well.
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You make a lot of valid points. But heightism lookism and racism ..women face those discrimination as well.
Yes they do (not heightism but the others).
But almost no man is so strict on women on whether they are more or less than 60kg or if they have or not blonde hair etc.
On the other hand, the vast majority of women won't date a short man only for his height and the vast majority of women only date men at least 5.9 and many times taller than 5.11.
So women are in reality much more shallow than men on dating, especially when it comes to body requirements.
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Im a short black woman. And trust me as a short black woman I have faced double the discrimination for my color and for being short. I feel like i get punished way more. It has completely impacted how I can make a living..and what kind of opportunities I can have. SO yes short women do face heightism. Its just that they face different things..but no heightism is a problem for men and women. Thats why there are men and women doing LL.
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It would be better if short people could unite and fight heightism and lookism.. where we wouldnt have to go through procedure like this to be treated fairly.
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How tall are u? 4'11?
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It would be better if short people could unite and fight heightism and lookism.. where we wouldnt have to go through procedure like this to be treated fairly.
If you will be able to reach normal people
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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How is short people not normal people. Our worth is determine by our character not what we look like. Short,, tall..etc we are all human beings.
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How is short people not normal people. Our worth is determine by our character not what we look like. Short,, tall..etc we are all human beings.
What ur sayin? Can't hear you up there
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Oh please. You think those stupid short jokes..affect me it doesn't. All it shows is that you value superficial things more than character. My worth is not in what I look like. Its character is what matters. Imsorry that your parents didn't love you enough to teach you this valuable lesson. And only insecure people like to start fights with people. Sorry not a bully. Get a life.
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Sorry not a bully. Get a life.
Oh please. You think those stupid short jokes..affect me it doesn't. All it shows is that you value superficial things more than character. My worth is not in what I look like. Its character is what matters. Imsorry that your parents didn't love you enough to teach you this valuable lesson. And only insecure people like to start fights with people.
Ironic
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In my case it was my height being stunted, and it wasn't just a guess of mine. In my case it was confirmed by doctor and health professional that I must have lost a bit of final height because of that. How much exactly? Impossible to know, we're probably talking about 1.5 inch. So, complex? For me the guilt, remorse, resentment towards my teenage self and my parents. The rage of wasting genetics when it would have been different. It scalated from there. If I had not have the issue of my growth being stunted I don't think I'd be here today.
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In my case it was my height being stunted, and it wasn't just a guess of mine. In my case it was confirmed by doctor and health professional that I must have lost a bit of final height because of that. How much exactly? Impossible to know, we're probably talking about 1.5 inch. So, complex? For me the guilt, remorse, resentment towards my teenage self and my parents. The rage of wasting genetics when it would have been different. It scalated from there. If I had not have the issue of my growth being stunted I don't think I'd be here today.
Dude, I talked to lots of doctors and none of them seems to have a clue about it. Unless you talked to a growth hormone specialist or orthopedic doctors, then they are probably just as clueless as we are.
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In my case it was my height being stunted, and it wasn't just a guess of mine. In my case it was confirmed by doctor and health professional that I must have lost a bit of final height because of that. How much exactly? Impossible to know, we're probably talking about 1.5 inch. So, complex? For me the guilt, remorse, resentment towards my teenage self and my parents. The rage of wasting genetics when it would have been different. It scalated from there. If I had not have the issue of my growth being stunted I don't think I'd be here today.
How tall are you, Guilt?
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Yes, I do.
I want to be the best version of myself as aesthetic.
My face and my style are good. The only thing in my body makes me want to kill myself is that the fact that i'm friggin 5'8 1/2.
I love myself, except my height. I love all the other parts of my body.
I just want to lengthen my legs and be the best version of myself.
Not for the damn girls, who cares about girls anyway? I'm not an 1ncel. I care about boys even more (I'm not gay or bi). I have below zero problems about girls.
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Yes, I do.
I want to be the best version of myself as aesthetic.
My face and my style are good. The only thing in my body makes me want to kill myself is that the fact that i'm friggin 5'8 1/2.
I love myself, except my height. I love all the other parts of my body.
I just want to lengthen my legs and be the best version of myself.
Not for the damn girls, who cares about girls anyway? I'm not an 1ncel. I care about boys even more (I'm not gay or bi). I have below zero problems about girls.
hell yeah bro, its 2020; its all about kings supporting kings
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hell yeah bro, its 2020; its all about kings supporting kings
LOL! I loved this comment. Have a good day!
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Dude, I talked to lots of doctors and none of them seems to have a clue about it. Unless you talked to a growth hormone specialist or orthopedic doctors, then they are probably just as clueless as we are.
How do you know you stunted your growth? Based on your parents’ height?
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Turkey's average height around 176, including the elderly. it will climb higher in five ten years
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How do you know you stunted your growth? Based on your parents’ height?
Let's be real. I can never know for sure. But,
What I know is I suffered from extreme sleep deprivation and depression over long-period which science believes stunt growth.
What I know is that I'm much shorter than my father and same height as my sisters whereas 99% of all guys I know tower over their father and sisters regardless of how short the mothers are.
What I know are a few people who lived their childhood stress-free, slept like a baby and drank lots of milk and are 6' now eventhough their parents and sisters are shorter than mine.
So at this point, there's no reason to believe that I did not stunt my height.
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Gotta find something to blame beside bad genetics and bad luck. If it helps you cope then good for you
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Let's be real. I can never know for sure. But,
What I know is I suffered from extreme sleep deprivation and depression over long-period which science believes stunt growth.
What I know is that I'm much shorter than my father and same height as my sisters whereas 99% of all guys I know tower over their father and sisters regardless of how short the mothers are.
What I know are a few people who lived their childhood stress-free, slept like a baby and drank lots of milk and are 6' now eventhough their parents and sisters are shorter than mine.
So at this point, there's no reason to believe that I did not stunt my height.
I know it's hard, whatever we lose, we lose from thinking about the past, as a result it won't change. Probably my adolescence ended at the age of 16 but I'm not thinking about it
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"Diminishing returns" in terms of their ability to attract the opposite sxx, sure. But most of the top bodybuilders, models, businessmen, etc don't want to be at the top to attract women. They do it because they want to be better than all the other bodybuilders, models, businessmen, and so on.
Similarly, it's possible that some of these tall people who want this surgery want it because they want to be taller than everyone else. Whether that's a "problem" or not isn't for anyone else to decide. It's their body and their life.
Regarding my posting scientific research on heightism, etc:
As you're probably noticed, I have never, nor will I ever, randomly create doom-and-gloom threads whose sole purpose it is to further damage the self-esteem of the posters here (I haven't made any threads going "look look everyone! look at this new study that proves how hopeless it is for you because you're short!"). My intention isn't to "kick people while they're down" or "drag them down further".
When I post this stuff, it's ALWAYS in response to someone making some positivist claim about how short men can still attract "plenty" of women, how it's "not so bad when you really think about it", basically all sorts of feel-good platitudinous claims that (as far as I've seen) tend to be embellished, no doubt in an attempt to console the depressed and potentially suicidal members the posts are aimed at.
It's not that I "don't understand" the other side. I know what you're trying to do, and I know that you are probably trying to help by doing it. The problem is that what you're doing will ultimately have the opposite effect.
Suppose I stopped debunking the positivity posts, or even joined in and started making posts like those too, talking about how it's not so bad, how things can be great as a short man, you can have plenty of women, post lots of staged videos where short men kiss and fondle paid actresses, and so on. Lots of short guys see these posts and start to feel better. They start to internalize these feel-good delusions, and kind of start to forget about their problems. Hey, maybe being short isn't so bad after all.
When they get off their computer and go back to the real world, they're still short. Heightism hasn't gone away. People are still going to treat them the exact same way they were before. They're still gonna get made fun of by their peers, passed over for promotions at work, rejected by women, etc. Nothing has changed except their "mentality". They're still being discriminated against and treated like sh*t because of their height, and it still makes them miserable. The only difference is that now, they'll try to ignore it or just endure it and keep living their lives in spite of it, resigning themselves to a mediocre or poor quality of life.
Their feel-good delusions don't match their real-life experiences, which will result in cognitive dissonance. After a while, no matter how brainwashed they are, they won't be able to cope anymore, and they'll end up depressed again, and then they'll end up back on this forum, and we're back to square one.
How do I know this? Because this is how real-life """therapy""" works. I know that because I've been through it before. Therapy, especially the increasingly popular "cognitive-behavioral" therapy that is in vogue nowadays, is all about brainwashing the patient with positive affirmations and hoping that these "stick", allowing the patient to cope with whatever they're unhappy with just enough so that they can be a "well-adjusted person", which basically just means they're mentally stable enough to work a 9-to-5 job and take care of themselves rather than applying for disability and living on welfare.
"Therapy" is a lifelong thing. Once you've completed a 6 or so month long "course" of therapy with a mental health professional and they deem you to be "rehabilitated", you'll get sent on your way with a request to "check back" in around 3 or so months to "touch base". What this means is they need to check whether your indoctrination is still holding strong or if you need some more, because psychologists are well aware that problems "treated" by therapy recur in virtually every case.
This is what will happen if we start circlejerking and trying to console each other. We'll brainwash each other into thinking heightism's not so bad, until we go out there and see that yes, it kind of IS that bad, and then we end up back here again, where we'll once again get brainwashed, and the cycle continues in that way.
Ultimately, we accomplish absolutely nothing other than waste each other's time - time that we'll never be able to get back, that could've been used working together towards an actual SOLUTION that would solve the problem once and for all.
Regarding the alternatives to CLL:
I've been planning to do just that. I've been compiling research and information I've seen about them from other sites and their own sites, though I've faced some difficulty (Dr. Teplyashin is Russian, and his site is in Russian). Once I've got all this stuff prepared, I will post about them.
Do yourself a favor and work through some 3rd grade grammar and spelling books when you're in the recovery phase. You have the writing ability of a 9 year old, and it's only going to be more embarrassing once you're taller.
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What I know is that I'm much shorter than my father and same height as my sisters whereas 99% of all guys I know tower over their father and sisters regardless of how short the mothers are.
It’s not unusual to be shorter than your father if your mother is really short. Did you try using the following formula?
- Add the mother's height and the father's height in either inches or centimeters.
- Add 5 inches (13 centimeters) for boys or subtract 5 inches (13 centimeters) for girls.
- Divide by two.
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It’s not unusual to be shorter than your father if your mother is really short. Did you try using the following formula?
- Add the mother's height and the father's height in either inches or centimeters.
- Add 5 inches (13 centimeters) for boys or subtract 5 inches (13 centimeters) for girls.
- Divide by two.
Well, by this formula, I should be 173 (6cm taller)
My sisters should be 160 (4-6cm shorter)
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Well, by this formula, I should be 173 (6cm taller)
My sisters should be 160 (4-6cm shorter)
OK, but still, I can’t imagine that sleep deprivation and depression can have that big of an impact. Maybe one inch or so, yes, but not two to three inches or more.
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OK, but still, I can’t imagine that sleep deprivation and depression can have that big of an impact. Maybe one inch or so, yes, but not two to three inches or more.
No one will convince him. No rational reasoning will occur. Dont bother
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No one will convince him. No rational reasoning will occur. Dont bother
Kid, if you got a problem with me, you can just say it.
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You
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You
Great. So what the fk is your problem, kid?
Since you're safe behind your computer desk in your mom's basement, just say it all, nothing to lose.
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A lot of the insecurity at 5’8-5’11 I attribute to the Lamborghini effect (I’m sure there’s a real name for this but I’m too lazy to google it) I.e. you drive on the highway one day and see two or three Lamborghinis and your brain tricks you into believing that Lamborghinis are more common than in reality.
Same goes for 6 ft+ giants walking around. They are statistically rare even in taller countries but you pay more attention to them when you see them and thus the insecurity develops. Internet magnifies this 100x.
If you are a well-proportioned guy of average height I don’t care what red pill nonsense you spew at me, there’s no reason you can’t pull a 9+ Attractive woman assuming you are also attractive, successful, charismatic etc. Definitely not your height stopping you at that point. Plenty of ugly lanky 6 footers around that can’t pull tail believe me.
Would I love to be a couple of inches taller and join the 6 ft club? Sure. But there’s definitely more greed and vanity in this category than there would be for actual short males looking into CLL.
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A lot of the insecurity at 5’8-5’11 I attribute to the Lamborghini effect (I’m sure there’s a real name for this but I’m too lazy to google it) I.e. you drive on the highway one day and see two or three Lamborghinis and your brain tricks you into believing that Lamborghinis are more common than in reality.
Same goes for 6 ft+ giants walking around. They are statistically rare even in taller countries but you pay more attention to them when you see them and thus the insecurity develops. Internet magnifies this 100x.
If you are a well-proportioned guy of average height I don’t care what red pill nonsense you spew at me, there’s no reason you can’t pull a 9+ Attractive woman assuming you are also attractive, successful, charismatic etc. Definitely not your height stopping you at that point. Plenty of ugly lanky 6 footers around that can’t pull tail believe me.
Would I love to be a couple of inches taller and join the 6 ft club? Sure. But there’s definitely more greed and vanity in this category than there would be for actual short males looking into CLL.
5.8 is not.a bad height but has nothing to do with 5.11. all that you say are completely true for a 5.11 height but no, for a 5.8 guy height is still a disadvantage and it is very hard to have model girls by his side, even if he is very good looking and with a muscular body.
Less than 5.7 is unacceptable for the majority of women but even 5.8 makes dating not very easy.
As a strong 5.9 guy after my LL, the difference compared to my previous height (5.65) is huge but I am sure that after another one LL and reaching anything above 5.11 things would have been much more easier.
So, at 5.7-8 there are reasons to have height complex, especially when it comes to dating, at 5.9-10 you are ok but still some more height would have helped and after 5.11-6 ft height really doesn't matter any more, it is perfect.
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Brah if you attribute your lack of success in dating is because you’re too “short” at 5’8-5’9. Being 5’11 ain’t gonna change . If you were good looking at 5’4, and you attribute your lack of success in dating because of height then that would actually make sense. Most girls can’t even tell the difference between 5’9 and 5’11…. They are on average 5’4, and just want a guy a few heads taller then them they can’t tell the difference.
The dating poool is drastically increased for guys going from 5’4 to 5’7, then it is for guys going from 5’8 to 5’11
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Brah if you attribute your lack of success in dating is because you’re too “short” at 5’8-5’9. Being 5’11 ain’t gonna change . If you were good looking at 5’4, and you attribute your lack of success in dating because of height then that would actually make sense. Most girls can’t even tell the difference between 5’9 and 5’11…. They are on average 5’4, and just want a guy a few heads taller then them they can’t tell the difference.
The dating poool is drastically increased for guys going from 5’4 to 5’7, then it is for guys going from 5’8 to 5’11
Absolute fking garbage. Someone needs to start banning these sn-akes, seriously.
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Absolute fking garbage. Someone needs to start banning these sn-akes, seriously.
I think there is indeed a 'threshold' past which there will be 'dimishing returns' becoming of the benefit of being taller, but I am not sure if the threshold he elucidated is accurate either, but def past the threshold, the success of dating will be more dependent of face stature personality etc.
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I am not tall now (173cm) but I was much smaller growing up compared to my peers. As in bottom 2% - 5% of my age group.. It did not really bother me when I was a small child because you can just run faster / be more agile when you are smaller, so why care?. I remember it hit me very hard when I got into the 12-13-14 age and started to like girls. Mostly because they always pre-emptively rejected me because I was small. As in, even though I never displayed interest I would still get told I was too small for any girl to ever like me. Get hit by this every day during formative years and I guess it will fk you up.
I guess in reality it didnt really mean anything. And simply having a personality that didnt care would probably outshine the height hate, but I had the opposite effect, and this probably amplified it.
Imo the height dysphoria occurs when you start absorbing the height shame truely and internalize it. It’s almost like the shame fuses into your bones and cannot be separated. Like it becomes part of your identity. Something you cannot escape. Maybe because I was vulnerable due to other stuff going on also at that age? Anyway, I believe that trying to work on the shame with a therapist is important. Even if you do LL. That has to be cleaned up, even if not 100% you can maybe clean up a good amount.
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I am not tall now (173cm) but I was much smaller growing up compared to my peers. As in bottom 2% - 5% of my age group.. It did not really bother me when I was a small child because you can just run faster / be more agile when you are smaller, so why care?. I remember it hit me very hard when I got into the 12-13-14 age and started to like girls. Mostly because they always pre-emptively rejected me because I was small. As in, even though I never displayed interest I would still get told I was too small for any girl to ever like me. Get hit by this every day during formative years and I guess it will fk you up.
I guess in reality it didnt really mean anything. And simply having a personality that didnt care would probably outshine the height hate, but I had the opposite effect, and this probably amplified it.
Imo the height dysphoria occurs when you start absorbing the height shame truely and internalize it. It’s almost like the shame fuses into your bones and cannot be separated. Like it becomes part of your identity. Something you cannot escape. Maybe because I was vulnerable due to other stuff going on also at that age? Anyway, I believe that trying to work on the shame with a therapist is important. Even if you do LL. That has to be cleaned up, even if not 100% you can maybe clean up a good amount.
Remember the complex inferiorities deriving from your serious genetic weaknesses are extremely resistant to therapies as well as medications and at this point I'd say Eugenics is sensical, but firstly Eugenics is too 'politically incorrect' and there will be some aftermaths from practicing Eugenic regimes which restricts the variance of gene pool.
I am one of those poor souls who are artifacts of doleful genes and I am pretty self-aware as others who also are.
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Imo the height dysphoria occurs when you start absorbing the height shame truely and internalize it. It’s almost like the shame fuses into your bones and cannot be separated. Like it becomes part of your identity. Something you cannot escape. Maybe because I was vulnerable due to other stuff going on also at that age? Anyway, I believe that trying to work on the shame with a therapist is important. Even if you do LL. That has to be cleaned up, even if not 100% you can maybe clean up a good amount.
Why would a completely rational and normal thing need you to see a therapist?
Here's the reality: being ashamed of being short is a perfectly reasonable and rational response in a society which clearly says tall = good and short = bad. The mentally ill ones are actually those who are 'proud to be short', cos there's nothing to be proud of - it's just a signal to the rest of the tribe of your inferior genetics. It's as ridiculous as being 'proud to be bald', as if anyone would choose to have a fking toilet seat cover as a hairline. You should be ashamed of being short and there's nothing wrong with that. No, everyone isn't born equal, and having lies whispered in your ear by a (((therapist))) will not make it so. That's why we do CLL at the end of the day - to get rid of the marker of genetic unfitness.
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Why would a completely rational and normal thing need you to see a therapist?
Here's the reality: being ashamed of being short is a perfectly reasonable and rational response in a society which clearly says tall = good and short = bad. The mentally ill ones are actually those who are 'proud to be short', cos there's nothing to be proud of - it's just a signal to the rest of the tribe of your inferior genetics. It's as ridiculous as being 'proud to be bald', as if anyone would choose to have a fking toilet seat cover as a hairline. You should be ashamed of being short and there's nothing wrong with that. No, everyone isn't born equal, and having lies whispered in your ear by a (((therapist))) will not make it so. That's why we do CLL at the end of the day - to get rid of the marker of genetic unfitness.
I don't think it is mentally ill and despiteful to be proud of being short(although imo this is just an implicaton of 'Napoleon Syndrome'). The ones who are truly mentally ill and despiteful are those who are still reproducing and passing down their ty genes to their offsprings, because they are too unempathic and sadistic(they can't assure if their children will unfortunately do not have life experiences that are as good as theirs)! They want to replicate the tragedies to their children. It is really retarded of them to require their children to be proud of being short like them as well, thinking they are doing a right thing and standing by unempathic to their children's sufferings! They can be proud of being short themselves but why don't they realize the importance of ceasing the inheritance of bad genes? It's really stupid to let a new person suffering willy-nilly.
Literally there are too many dumb parents who do not realize to cease the inheritance of bad genes including short stature. They think 'Nah that's okay to be xxx, as long as he/she is yyy'.
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Why would a completely rational and normal thing need you to see a therapist?
Here's the reality: being ashamed of being short is a perfectly reasonable and rational response in a society which clearly says tall = good and short = bad. The mentally ill ones are actually those who are 'proud to be short', cos there's nothing to be proud of - it's just a signal to the rest of the tribe of your inferior genetics. It's as ridiculous as being 'proud to be bald', as if anyone would choose to have a fking toilet seat cover as a hairline. You should be ashamed of being short and there's nothing wrong with that. No, everyone isn't born equal, and having lies whispered in your ear by a (((therapist))) will not make it so. That's why we do CLL at the end of the day - to get rid of the marker of genetic unfitness.
My argument/logic to this would be the following:
You can be objectively aware of the disadvantage of your short height, but without internalizing shame. You can be rational and know that going on Tinder and writing your short height in your biography is probably not a wise move. Or that going to the nightclub or festival with your tall 6’2” friends will probably not go too well. However, you can separate this from internalized shame. This is where you become quite mentally strong, and I believe we should all work on this. Especially when doing LL.
You see, me you and anyone else who is short has nothing to be ashamed about, logically. We have made no harm, no foul, our skeletal length is just slightly smaller than the average. But as you state, there is a preference in society for the longer skeletal length. Therefore, we can rationally recognize this, and act smart accordingly without feeling shame or less self worth.
I am not saying this because it is easy, or that I have achieved it. I am just saying, that I believe one should work on separating the logical from the illogical.
If society suddenly overnight despised people with names ending on the letter R and praised names ending on the letter A, it would be illogical for people with names ending on R to feel shame, but it would be logical for them to acknowledge the sentiment in society and act accordingly.
Remember the complex inferiorities deriving from your serious genetic weaknesses are extremely resistant to therapies as well as medications and at this point I'd say Eugenics is sensical, but firstly Eugenics is too 'politically incorrect' and there will be some aftermaths from practicing Eugenic regimes which restricts the variance of gene pool.
I am one of those poor souls who are artifacts of doleful genes and I am pretty self-aware as others who also are.
I think saying having a smaller height is a serious genetic weakness is a big exaggeration. There are genetics that lead to blindness, paralysis, cancer, heart disease etc. I think this would go in that line.
I believe that you must be suffering from very hard internalized shame to talk of yourself that way, and I refer to my answer to the post above.
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My argument/logic to this would be the following:
You can be objectively aware of the disadvantage of your short height, but without internalizing shame. You can be rational and know that going on Tinder and writing your short height in your biography is probably not a wise move. Or that going to the nightclub or festival with your tall 6’2” friends will probably not go too well. However, you can separate this from internalized shame. This is where you become quite mentally strong, and I believe we should all work on this. Especially when doing LL.
You see, me you and anyone else who is short has nothing to be ashamed about, logically. We have made no harm, no foul, our skeletal length is just slightly smaller than the average. But as you state, there is a preference in society for the longer skeletal length. Therefore, we can rationally recognize this, and act smart accordingly without feeling shame or less self worth.
I am not saying this because it is easy, or that I have achieved it. I am just saying, that I believe one should work on separating the logical from the illogical.
If society suddenly overnight despised people with names ending on the letter R and praised names ending on the letter A, it would be illogical for people with names ending on R to feel shame, but it would be logical for them to acknowledge the sentiment in society and act accordingly.
I think saying having a smaller height is a serious genetic weakness is a big exaggeration. There are genetics that lead to blindness, paralysis, cancer, heart disease etc. I think this would go in that line.
I believe that you must be suffering from very hard internalized shame to talk of yourself that way, and I refer to my answer to the post above.
It's like this: I don't feel personally any lesser inherent worth than a guy who is 6ft 2, however it's quite clear in societies eyes I am.
I think we're on the same page really. I thought you meant seeing a therapist for things like not wanting to go to the club as a short man or believing that being short gives you a disadvantage with women. As you've pointed out, those things are just logical conclusions to the realities of society. Normies however would have you believe you need (((therapy))) for even thinking you are worth lesser in the eyes of society when you're short.
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It's like this: I don't feel personally any lesser inherent worth than a guy who is 6ft 2, however it's quite clear in societies eyes I am.
I think we're on the same page really. I thought you meant seeing a therapist for things like not wanting to go to the club as a short man or believing that being short gives you a disadvantage with women. As you've pointed out, those things are just logical conclusions to the realities of society. Normies however would have you believe you need (((therapy))) for even thinking you are worth lesser in the eyes of society when you're short.
Yeah we agree. When I said internalized shame I mean when you genuinely feel that you are worth less than someone taller. I felt like that a long way a long time, and trying to slowly get rid of it.
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My argument/logic to this would be the following:
You can be objectively aware of the disadvantage of your short height, but without internalizing shame. You can be rational and know that going on Tinder and writing your short height in your biography is probably not a wise move. Or that going to the nightclub or festival with your tall 6’2” friends will probably not go too well. However, you can separate this from internalized shame. This is where you become quite mentally strong, and I believe we should all work on this. Especially when doing LL.
You see, me you and anyone else who is short has nothing to be ashamed about, logically. We have made no harm, no foul, our skeletal length is just slightly smaller than the average. But as you state, there is a preference in society for the longer skeletal length. Therefore, we can rationally recognize this, and act smart accordingly without feeling shame or less self worth.
I am not saying this because it is easy, or that I have achieved it. I am just saying, that I believe one should work on separating the logical from the illogical.
If society suddenly overnight despised people with names ending on the letter R and praised names ending on the letter A, it would be illogical for people with names ending on R to feel shame, but it would be logical for them to acknowledge the sentiment in society and act accordingly.
I think saying having a smaller height is a serious genetic weakness is a big exaggeration. There are genetics that lead to blindness, paralysis, cancer, heart disease etc. I think this would go in that line.
I believe that you must be suffering from very hard internalized shame to talk of yourself that way, and I refer to my answer to the post above.
I myself don't think shortness is one of the genetic weaknesses either, however the whole society just condescends upon the short people. Of course it is nonsensical to perceive the aesthetic weakness as genetic weakness since our world never needs people who are tall, handsome, hot etc. for the development of itself, but most of people are not that mentally matured(I also hope people can become more matured of course) so as a member of the human society, you have no choices but to tailor yourself to the various standards of the society.
Besides LL, another alternative that can gain you respects is to move to less heightism countries, for ex Japan. I am living in China which is famous for its insanely massive heightism as the most heightism country, so the migration into less heightism countries is never a bad option. There are other reasons why I want to move out of China btw.
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they probably live in a north/eastern european country where male avg is 180-185. being 5'7 isn't debilitating in most countries