Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: helloworld on November 16, 2016, 08:44:26 AM
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I am currently doing limb lengthening in Barcelona with Fitbone.
Just around 15 years ago, before September 11, I found out about limb lengthening, and I was determined to do it. But I never had the time and money. Then I sold my company recently, looked limb lengthening up again 2 months ago and yesterday I had my surgery!
As you guys of this forum helped me, I want to give back by sharing my experience.
How I decided
In 2001 I told my family that I was going to do limb lengthening surgery, but they were totally against it and at the time I also did not have the resources.
Thus I waited.
In 2012-2014 I was living in Kiev, Ukraine, and I was seriously considering doing it there. But for several reasons I did not have a good feeling about doing it there.
Then 3 months ago I read again about limb lengthening and found that it was definitely advisable to do internal limb lengthening and it seemed there were 4 internals rods that I could trust:
Precise
Fitbone
Prof. Guichet’s Albianizza
Betzbone
Prices for all these internal methods seemed very high, Prof. Guichet and Prof. Betz quotes me over 55,000 USD.
Then I looked at the fitbone website, to see all the clinics using the fitbone device and decided to write to several.
The response, and ensuing conversation I had with Dr. Alejandro Monegal from Barcelona lead me to trust him. Also, the prices he quoted were 36,000-38,000 euro, cheaper than what I had seen elsewhere for the internal method.
So 3 weeks ago I flew to Barcelona. I had long conversations with Dr. Alejandro Monegal as well as with several of his patients. As a result I became convinced that:
The surgical procedure is very standard and very little risk
The pain during lengthening is not so bad
Functionality will be recovered almost 100%
Thus I decided to go ahead!
I decided on the option of lengthening both legs at the same time, even though Dr. Monegal prefers to do one after the other. The reason is that if I am going through pain I want this to be intense and short, rather than getting even more pain once the first leg is done.
Doing both at the same time means that I will be bound to the wheel chair for the time of lengthening. As I want to lengthen 5,5 cm and 0,8 mm can be lengthened per day, I will spend over 2 months in the wheelchair.
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Thanks for sharing your experience and good luck for your journey! How old are you by the way? Your starting height?
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Update:
I have a really nice view on the mountains from my hospital room, but I am bored, having to lie in a bed for 3 days without moving my legs! This is because my legs are under anesthesia. That of course also means I feel no pain.
Just had a visit from Dr. Monegal, who confirmed that everything is going according to plan. :)
After one week I will leave Clinica Diagonal and move to a residency for limb lengthening patients:
http://www.micsantjordi.org/?lang=es
I hope it will be more exciting, as there will be around 5 other limb lengthening patients from all over the world.
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Lgazer salivates to respond to this thread.
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Your history remembers mine a lot . I know that limb lengthening exist since about the same time as you. I wanted to do It So many years ago and i contacted some doctors. But i hadnt got the money. I was sure that some day i woud be able to do it. Finally i had It done 14 months ago. Good luck with your journey.
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Thanks for your wishes!
14 months ago! Have you recovered 100% already?
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update:
I had the surgery 48 hours ago.
So far not much pain.
However, it is more uncomfortable than I thought: I cannot move my legs, so I cannot go to the toillet nor have a shower. The nurses have ti take my extrements and clean my whole body.
On the positive side:
there is a good Internet connection, so I am able to get lots of work done on my laptop
the food is good
there is a constant flow of nurses coming to visit, doing physical therapy, giving me medicine, food, washing me etc.
Before the surgery I had already bought a Eletro-muscle stimulation training device. This device has been much more effective in the past than regular training, and Fitbone confirmed that I could use it savely. That way I hope to keep my muscle loss to a minum.
Today, I was looking at an additional device, the vibrational plates, as there is some new research showing that it helps accelerate the bone healing.
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I dont think that the vibrational plates are going to be a good idea. You have to stand up on them and It has some ipact . Its better to Focus in the lengthening and not So much in muscle loss to be more safe
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THere is research that they help in healings bone fractures, but of course I am not sure when I would be able to use them as I can put full weight on the fitbones.
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TOday, 3 days after surgery I am feeling fine.
Of course it is boring but I am able to work quite productively.
Today they also removed the cable inside my penis, which was scary as I had read from Bohemian that is was painful, but for me it was not a big deal.
It really bothers me to see how hard it is to lift my legs. I hope that muscles will come back soon, as the constant anathesia was removed today.
Everyday I have to use a stretching machine to bend my knees for 1 hour. At first I was only able to do 90 degrees, but yesterday 110 and today 120. I hope that this does not become less as I start to stretch.
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Those are some heavy casts. The muscles won't come back soon; they'll come back over a few weeks of physiotherapy but the progress is continuous. They won't be nearly as heavy as they are now. Good luck with your journey.
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Thanks for your advice!
Good luck with your recovery!
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I am currently doing limb lengthening in Barcelona with Fitbone.
Just around 15 years ago, before September 11, I found out about limb lengthening, and I was determined to do it. But I never had the time and money. Then I sold my company recently, looked limb lengthening up again 2 months ago and yesterday I had my surgery!
As you guys of this forum helped me, I want to give back by sharing my experience.
How I decided
In 2001 I told my family that I was going to do limb lengthening surgery, but they were totally against it and at the time I also did not have the resources.
Thus I waited.
In 2012-2014 I was living in Kiev, Ukraine, and I was seriously considering doing it there. But for several reasons I did not have a good feeling about doing it there.
Then 3 months ago I read again about limb lengthening and found that it was definitely advisable to do internal limb lengthening and it seemed there were 4 internals rods that I could trust:
Precise
Fitbone
Prof. Guichet’s Albianizza
Betzbone
Prices for all these internal methods seemed very high, Prof. Guichet and Prof. Betz quotes me over 55,000 USD.
Then I looked at the fitbone website, to see all the clinics using the fitbone device and decided to write to several.
The response, and ensuing conversation I had with Dr. Alejandro Monegal from Barcelona lead me to trust him. Also, the prices he quoted were 36,000-38,000 euro, cheaper than what I had seen elsewhere for the internal method.
So 3 weeks ago I flew to Barcelona. I had long conversations with Dr. Alejandro Monegal as well as with several of his patients. As a result I became convinced that:
The surgical procedure is very standard and very little risk
The pain during lengthening is not so bad
Functionality will be recovered almost 100%
Thus I decided to go ahead!
I decided on the option of lengthening both legs at the same time, even though Dr. Monegal prefers to do one after the other. The reason is that if I am going through pain I want this to be intense and short, rather than getting even more pain once the first leg is done.
Doing both at the same time means that I will be bound to the wheel chair for the time of lengthening. As I want to lengthen 5,5 cm and 0,8 mm can be lengthened per day, I will spend over 2 months in the wheelchair.
Great story, hope you're happy with result, you done it, 15 years in the making wow
whats your initial height?
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Thanks!
I am actually above the US medium of 5'9! So I feel guilty because I know I should be happy and I know some of you will not understand. But you see, my sister is almost 6 feet, my father 6'2 and my brothers 6'3 and 6'5. In that environment I was always have been the little one and will continue to be.
But when I went abroad to China, India, and Latam I noticed that felt much more comfortable. So I just wanted to keep this feeling of comfort.
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hello, can I ask you a question? how much is the residence where are you? :)
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It is 1380 euro for a single room per month and 1500 euro for a double room.
They have a gym, an small pool, and 24 assistance if needed.
I took the double room as it has a nice balcony and a lot of sunlight.
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I had operation almost 3 weeks ago. Everything went fine. Fitbone great. Dr. Monegal great. Clinica Diagonal great. Residency Mic Sant Jordi great.
But last week suddenly by fitbone in my left leg stopped responding. The next day Dr. Monegal came to the residency and also was not able to get it to work. So already the next day I went back to the clinic to replace the receptor of the Fitbone. Again I had to undergo surgery! :-(
But the worst was that it was found that not only the receptor had broken, but also the fitbone itself. So I talked to the engineer and even the director of Fitbone directly, and they said they have no explanation how this could have happened and this never should have happened and never had happened before.
Nonetheless, I had to undergo yet another surgery to get the fitbone replace with a new fitbone the next day!
Dr. Monegal was great in this situation, he was depressed as he could not deliver perfection due to a failure of the fitbone, showed a lot of empathy, and promised he will do everything to make my recovery as smooth as possible. He told me not to worry about any of the costs of the hospital nor of the fitbone or operation, that he would take charge of that, even though the fitbone failure was not his fault but of the company Wittenstein.
I would still recommend Dr. Monegal and fitbone 100%.
But in regards to Fitbone, it also depends on my conversation with the representatives of Wittenstein (make of Fitbone), who is flying to Barcelona, day after tomorrow. I expect them to assume full responsibility, express their empathy, say "sorry" and do not make me pay for the faulty fitbone or at least give me a discount. Let's see.
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Sucks that it happened. Good on Dr. Monegal for handling it well.
Something similar happened to me with PRECICE 2- the nail wasn't lengthening but it was replaced in the OT itself, so I didn't have another surgery. Apparently the chances of that happening are incredibly low. The replacement was free and I hope yours is too.
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Why do the representatives of Fitbone say Fitbone never fails and it has never happened to them? There have been other failures with Chrisisaak and other Dr Monegal patients. This forum reported that one member got MANY bad nails and many surgeries! Some nails stopped working in the middle of lengthening and other nails failed in the operating room. This nail is not to be trusted. I don't trust Precise either but I prefer Precise. Guichetnail seems the best option so far. I will wait for Mitkovic's internal diaries to see if they are good apart from cheap.
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Hey helloworld!
You were unlucky with the fitbone failure but I'm sure everything will turn out just fine. I'm also at MIC so if you need anything just shout ;)
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Thanks for your wishes!
Dr. Monegal knows all the different nails, and as he think Fitbone is the best, and he did explain me all the reasons why, I trust that Fitbone is the best.
So I guess I was just unlucky.
From all what I have studied I am still very convinced that Fitbone with Dr. Monegal is by far the best option, at least for those who are not on a very limited budget and therefore have to do external lengthening in a low cost country like India or Serbia with more pain and likely more complications.
Tomorrow, I meet a rep of Wittenstein and I will see if I get a similarly great response as I got from Dr. Monegal.
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That's his opinion. I bet Dr Paley says Precise is the best and Dr Guichet says Gnail is the best and Dr Betz says Betzbone is the best. I trust those doctors more than your doctor but if you like that nail it's OK.
The only thing I know is this nail is giving problems to many people. You're not unlucky. The most unlucky person is the guy whose Fitbone failed and was threatened with external fixator and Musicmaker who had MANY faulty nails. There are many threads in this forum about Fitbone failures by Lluser and other members.
I wish you the best for your lengthening.
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The most unlucky person is the guy whose Fitbone failed and was threatened with external fixator and Musicmaker who had MANY faulty nails. There are many threads in this forum about Fitbone failures by Lluser and other members.
You keep talking about yourself in third person...
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Today I had a great meeting with people from Fitbone.
They took their time to get to know my case and they did admit that they do have fitbones failures at a rate of 0.3%, so around 12 people out of aprox. 4000 implants.
Musicmaker lives around 25 meters from my room, so I was able to know her case a little bit. She did have very, very bad luck but as far as I know she does not blame fitbone.
Maybe I am biased because all the patients that I talk to in person, I met her and of course they came to the same conclusion as I did, reinforcing my belief that Dr. Monegal and Fitbone are the best options.
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Actually, I did meet a patient last week that had the femur lengthened by Guichet in France but then decided to switch to come to Barcelona for Tibia lengthening.
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Guichet doesn't do tibia. I guess that's the reason. And price.
Implants fail then. Who is to be blamed when implants fail if Fitbone isn't? Doctor? Patient? I'm playing the devil's advocate. I'm not accusing anybody. There are some paranoid users here.
Good luck with your lengthening helloworld
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I agree with you!
If a nail fails, and the doctor and the patient did nothing wrong, they are liable. This is true even though they were not negligent, because it is within their responsibility.
And in that case a nail fails, and a patient has to undergo another surgery, for the nail manufacturer to say "we will give you another one for free!" is a joke! That is like a builder, who builds a faulty house the crashes and leaves the inhabitants disabled saying: "Don't worry we will build you another house for free!"
What about all the cost the patient had in terms, of pain, additional rehab, lost work hours, and maybe even chronic damages?
I am a lawyer, but I really do not like to sue anybody nor argue with anybody. But when I get damages from a product failure, and this product was not a toy from China, but a precision medical product, I do except the manufacturer to offer me a reasonable compensation.
What is reasonable? In once case a women placed her McDonalds coffee in between her legs while driving and when it spilled she got burned. McDonals had made the coffee a few degrees too hot, so she was awarded 2.5 million USD! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants
I think this is an exaggeration. But I think at least the manufacturer of the nail should refrain from charging anything from that patient, or at least not for the leg with the failed bone. This is likly no cost at all to the nail manufacturer, as the material costs are a small fraction of the sales price. And as the failure rate is very low (with Fitbone 0.3%) there is really no cost at all for them to offer this to all their patients.
What do you guys think?
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I totally agree with you, helloworld. If a nail fail, the manufacturer should offer a replacement at no cost. It is not only an ethical decision, and good for the patient (for obvious reasons) but also some good advertising for them with virtually no economic cost on the big picture.
However, in some cases the problem could be determining if the failure was caused by a faulty nail or by a bad decision / unlucky accident by the patient. I think it was Bohemia who said that a guy went alpine skiing while still lengthening and bent the nail. This is a very obvious (and possibly exaggerated) case, but I hope you get what I mean.
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TO be clear Ozymandis: I am NOT saying the manufacturer should offer a free replacement!
Of course he should! But beyond that he should either pay either:
full consequential damages of the patient
or cover the full cost of operation
or at least cover the cost of the nail (and the replacement)!
Just offering a replacing nail, while the patient has to undergo additional surgery including pain, rehab, and lost work seems like a bad joke to me!
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Of course they should offer a replacement and they should give it for free and they should compensate you and all people whose implants failed. If you pay such a large amount for your implants there is no legal way you are forced to pay again for them if they were faulty. From a lawyer's perspective they should compensate you with a large amount of money. Extra surgeries mean more long-term consequences. No amount of money is large enough to compensate for your suffering but money can help. We are talking about large sums of money.
I read there was one guy whose Fitbone failed and he was said he was being ex-fixed by that doctor of yours and he had to pay for an external fixator in addition to what he had already paid. That's crazy. If I were that guy I would sue Wittenstein for sure. Read the quotation below.
People must learn to admit their mistakes and pay for them. If the Fitbone is faulty, Fitbone must pay. If the doctor makes a mistake, he must pay. If the patient makes a mistake it's him who must pay. Each case must be studied in depth to determine who is to be blamed.
In October some prospective patients visited Dr Monegal’s center and met some actual patients. I have visited the center. Glenn described this tour in his diary. Everything seemed fine but the doctor didn’t tell all the truth to his future patients. He introduced these people to all his current patients but one girl who was also at the guesthouse and who has had very serious complications (Musicmaker??). This is for me a case of dishonesty. I learnt about this after my trip.
I can understand that this is a difficult surgery and sometimes things go wrong, but doctor said none of his patients had had complications which wasn’t true.
After the trip, I made some research. I asked some people (patients and people from the forum) and got to know that it’s not only this girl who had problems, but other people. It seems there is one American guy whose implant failed. Dr told him that he had to be exfixed and he had to pay around 7000 eur. Finally the company sent a free implant for him but it failed too and he had to go to OR again. It isn’t about money but about all the trauma and suffering for that guy. It seems he hasn’t been compensated.
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If the nail has failed the Company must offer a new one free of charge of course.
My advice: all patients affected by malfunction of implants should prepare a class action lawsuit to be compensated. In America you can get large amounts of money, sometimes millions of dollars. Some cases in this forum are bad enough for that. If a woman burnt by coffee gets that amount, that American guy and Musicmaker would get millions and millions. They would become very rich.
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Let's keep our heads cool! At least I do not want to try to get anything unreasonable from anybody. To some extend we as patient do assume certain risks.
Also, three points:
1. Dr. Monegal explained very convincingly to me why he is using Fitbone and not Precise, even though Precise, would pay him a nice commission. He knows that Fitbone is better for the patients.
2. I have talked to many patients of Monegal (about 8) and they are all very happy. Musimaker is an exception but even she does not put the fault on the doctor.
3. I do think Wittenstein, the maker of Fitbone is very precise in their engineering and have not been negligent in any of the cases where fitbone failed, which according to them is only 0.3%.
I am in continuous discussion with them about my case and will let you know more about how these discussions go.
Stay tuned :-)
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To notimportant:
I also went to a consultation of Dr. Monegal and I also met patients that just came buy or that he connected to me.
However, he DID mention that there was the case of Musicmaker and that there were complications.
I then went on my own, without letting anyone know to Mic residence to talk to patients myself.
THere were two patients that, I talked to one guy who was very happy with the procedure. And then I was offered to meet a girl that apparently had, had complications, which I now know is "musicmaker".
As I had already met many patients and as I did not want to be scared of any complications, I declined the offer to meet her.
So it seems to me know after talking to musicmaker that "yes" things went wrong, but Dr. Monegal did not try to hide that case and I know that Dr. Monegal and her are actually now good friends.
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I am still confused, Musicmaker case was due to doctor or other factors. The comp.ications he had were due to bad surgery or the body of the patient itself?
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I am still confused, Musicmaker case was due to doctor or other factors. The comp.ications he had were due to bad surgery or the body of the patient itself?
She was unlucky. What happened to her could have happened to anyone and the doctor is not at fault. But it really saddens me that people keep bringing her name up to only talk about complications.
Anyways and besides all the setbacks she went through, she managed to stay more active than most LLers and is headed in the right direction. I take my hat off to her.
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I give my congratulations to her, too, just was a doubt I had becuase people say different things and I dont know who is telling the truth and who is lying.
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in retrospect would you have done it with precice?
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Besides being friendly outside the hospital did Dr. Mongal fix your leg problems? ... how much more did you pay your complication?
Thanks, Auron and Onemorefoot. It's true I try to keep as much active as I can in order to avoid sadness, but feeling bad and even devastated is sometimes unavoidable.
I don't want to talk about my case because information is being constantly manipulated by some trolls here to do harm to people I appreciate a lot. Yes, I DO care about my doctor and I don't want his name to be bashed because he's a good friend of mine and I firmly believe he is a highly skilled surgeon. That's why this forum makes me feel sad.
However, I'm still here because I need the support of some of you, guys and girls. Please, put yourself in my place and be good to me. I'm in a very difficult situation. Don't send me anonymous hate emails and don't try to hack my accounts because this scares me a lot. Please, I need you to be there to support me, as much as I have supported some of you in the past. Don't let me down.
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Hey mate,
Thanks for posting your diary it's very inspirational!
Like yourself I've been thinking of doing this for sometime now. But I think I've come to the point where I just need to get it done to move on with my life. I've also been thinking of lengthening two segments 5cm with Dr Monegal. My only real concern is recovery time and being away from my business. However I did read that you've managed to keep working through, which give me hope that I might be able to do the same thing.
I'm roughly 172 and my aim it to get close as possibly to 183cm without losing athletic ability/ I've attached a photo to give show you my body proportion!
http://imgur.com/a/ogh3M
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I'm roughly 172 and my aim it to get close as possibly to 183cm without losing athletic ability
Forget it.
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I think 11cm is too much. But is there any safe cm range that will let you safe, lets say, 85% athletic ability?
Forget it.
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We support you, sorry for remember you those bad momentos.
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Musicmaker why do you defend Fitbone if you had several bad implants? Did they compensate you?
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I think 11cm is too much. But is there any safe cm range that will let you safe, lets say, 85% athletic ability?
Up to 4 cm would make it possible to still perform decent. But anything can happen. You could get severe leg problems even with a small surgery. Only do this surgery if you are very desperate and care about being taller more than your athleticism.
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Musicmaker, why are you making up stories that Dr. Monegal is technically good. it's not right it's not true . Cooper said he had complications with Dr. Monegal and i thought you're still in a wheelchair after other surgeries?
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I am sorry Musicmaker. I didn't want to make you sad. Just found strange that your implants failed and you defended the implants. I thought perhaps they had compensated you
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I do not want to kidnap my fellow helloworld's diary
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Don't want to fight with you homie but you seem like the type of person that is getting paid to advertise Dr. Monegal.
Merry Christmas
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I don't think she's getting paid but she's manipulated. Cooper said this doctor monitors the forum and manipulates his patients
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Another musicmaker/monegal drama
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/9f/9f7f1bf033ddad2ab5df9d318c0eacb85adfbebcdcf831b1cdb5ac0c99503a49.jpg)
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Thanks for your message and for your picture!
11 cm seems really seems to much, especialy if only doing one segment. If you do both tibia and femur that would be possible.
You look quite proportional, and femur is the method most doctors prefer (I heared Guichet even does not do Tibia). So if where you I would do 7 cm to get to 5'11. I myself am doing 5,5 since it seems that for every ml you increase after 5 especially after 7 you risk of not recovering 100% increase.
You look very fit! So that seems to help a lot in the recovery process!
Not sure about your job, but I would definetly do both femures at the same time, and keep one week as much as possible.
You work time will be less, if you want a fast recovery, because ideally you would go to the gym every day, I go four times a day for around 30 minutes in order to ensure that I keep my flexibility and muscle strengths as much as possible.
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From what I have heared many patients get to almost 100% functionality in terms of strenght and flexibility.
But what I also heared is the less you do the more likely you will get there without any complications, so I would only want to do 5,5 cm.
But I never heared of anybody who has done less than 5 cm.
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Let me be completely transparent and honest:
I had talked to Wittenstein even before I got the surgery done. I had in fact an email exchange with the director of Wittenstein (helps that I speak the same language). At the time it was mainly about the question if EMS (electro muscular stimulation) is save with Fitbone.
After analysing the technical specs of the EMS system he said that it was indeed save.
When my fitbone failed, their first suspicion was that I had used the EMS system. However, that systems, had not even arrived here yet!
So I met with two reps from Wittenstein few days after my second operation. We had a nice discussion for around 90 minutes. As they were sales rep, and I am expert on sales and marketing (actually wrote two books in the field) I asked some questions about their clients and marketing strategy and immediatly prepared some marketing advice, part of which they have already implemented.
Then we discussed the savity of Fitbone, and they said "Fitbone" is absolutely save and you case is something that never happened before. They then mentioned that only in case they remembered a Viking like Swede did a high jump and the fitbone broke. But appart from such unreasonable behavior fitbone is totally save.
However, then we talked about compensation, and it seemed that they thought by giving me a free replacement that was enough. However, my arguments of pain, lost work time, and potential future negative consequences, did seem to convince them to consider a compensation.
However, I do think that my writing about compensation in this forum, my letting them know that I was trainer as a German lawyer, and that my father had worked in product liability cases, it seemed to scare them off. Becasue the next mail I got said basically "do not use the EMS device you bought and do not put more than 20 kg on the ftibone, otherwise we cannot take any guarantees!"
Not putting more thna 20 kg on a fitbone pretty much means you can not stand up at all! So I immediatly contact Dr. Monegal, who had given me a recovery program like this:
1. one week hospital in bed
2. stand up as soon as come out of hospital
3. 1 week after hospital you can start walking in between parallel bars
4. shortly after you can start using the bike
5. after taking out your stiches and having wounds healed you can use the pool
6. you can do any exercise that does not put full weight on your bones
7. stand up as much possible but NEVER walk
The doctor confirmed that protocoll. So when I told them about the 20 kg limitation by Wittenstein, he said this was unreasonable and that I should listen to him, which of course I was very happy to do.
The recovery protocoll of Dr. Monegal does not limit you too much, there are so many things you can do even with fitbone implants.
But then I had another call with the marekting rep and with the director of Fitbone. Again they were friendly and appreciative of my marketing advice. But then again, they wanted to tell me that they would not be liable if I put more than 20 kg on one bone, apparently being afraid of any liability suits. So I told them listen: what you are saying is totally different from what Dr. Monegal is saying and it is also different from eveything you told me before (nothing can happen to Fitbone if you use it reasonably and only 0.3% failure rate)!
They finally agreed, that I was allowed to follow the recovery protocol of Dr. Monegal, which I am very happy about.
To summarize: Nice people. Only would have hoped for that they see me as their friend, who wants to help them, and not like a danger and that they trust Dr. Monegal more in his recovery protocol and not seem to be totally focused on limiting their potential liabilities.
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It's very bad they act like this. I think the manufacturer is to be blamed. In my opinion they should compensate you, Musicmaker and the American guy. Are they scared of you because they see you as a danger? You are! They should be very scared of all patients with bad nails like the that American guy with his external fixator and Musicmaker with her many surgeries, many sequels, many years of life thrown away. You've got them by the balls.
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Hello world!
Sorry for not updating my diary!
I am doing fine: I have reduced my pain medication to 1/3 of what I was taking shortly after being released from hospital, I sleep almost continously for 8 hours (usually wake up once a night for a short while, which I compensate by an afternoon nap), am gaining speed on the bike, where I went from 10 km/h to a maximum of 39 km/h, and generally feeling happy.
The only thing bothering me is my left leg, which already had to undergo 3 surgeries, while my right leg feels great. Also, it is still a little bit shorter, when I was standing up, which meant that my right longer leg was almost never 100% straight when standing.
So last week I decided to lengthen more in the weaker left leg to even out the length, but the next day, during physiotherapy I got a strong pain in it, which did not go away for several days, and my left leg strength went down even more and I could not bike more than 25 km/h!
So I stopped lengthening, and exercising for one weekend and skipped physio session. My muscle healed, pain levels went down a lot, strength went up and today I was able to get from 39 km/h to 42 km/h on the bike. :-)
From now on, I will lengthen only at 0,66 mm per day, so to give my muscle more time to deal with the distraction.
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Three surgeries are too much
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Three surgeries are too much
Are three surgeries too much? Bad joke? Many members here have extra surgeries because LL is full of dangers. Musicmaker had around ten surgeries. I hope Helloworld isn't the second Musicmaker.
Hello world!
Sorry for not updating my diary!
I am doing fine: I have reduced my pain medication to 1/3 of what I was taking shortly after being released from hospital, I sleep almost continously for 8 hours (usually wake up once a night for a short while, which I compensate by an afternoon nap), am gaining speed on the bike, where I went from 10 km/h to a maximum of 39 km/h, and generally feeling happy.
The only thing bothering me is my left leg, which already had to undergo 3 surgeries, while my right leg feels great. Also, it is still a little bit shorter, when I was standing up, which meant that my right longer leg was almost never 100% straight when standing.
So last week I decided to lengthen more in the weaker left leg to even out the length, but the next day, during physiotherapy I got a strong pain in it, which did not go away for several days, and my left leg strength went down even more and I could not bike more than 25 km/h!
So I stopped lengthening, and exercising for one weekend and skipped physio session. My muscle healed, pain levels went down a lot, strength went up and today I was able to get from 39 km/h to 42 km/h on the bike. :-)
From now on, I will lengthen only at 0,66 mm per day, so to give my muscle more time to deal with the distraction.
So good you got better! Be careful with exercising too hard during PT. It can be harmful for your legs.
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Most of the internal patients have only 2 surgeries( put and remove tha nail), there are exceptions but are not " a lot like you say". I think that can change based on the kind of device and doctor( if you look ISKD patients ,they had like 100 surgeries), with precice or fitbone is not very likely to have 3 or more surgeries( look at Penguin, femurs diary of cooper,bilateral damage, etc.), I am almost sure that 80/100 of the femurs diaries here only report two major surgeries( also the companies say that their failure rate of nails is less than 1/100).
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Thanks for your kind wishes!
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Many patients have 3 surgeries. Helloworld will have at least 4. If he becomes the new musicmaker he will have more. Device failures cause unwanted extra surgeries for patients. That happens with Fitbone, Precice.. but I agree there have been more cases with unexperienced doctors. If the device has failed with at least 3 people (all Monegal's) they should investigate why.
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Monegal told me he had more than 365 surgeries per year, of course not all Fitbone.
And Wittenstein (Fitbone maker) reps told me that he was one of the most experienced doctors for Fitbone nail.
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If he is one of the most experienced and has so many bad cases, the other Fitbone surgeons must be terrible.
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@notimportant have you something against Fitbone? You wrote only negativ comments.
I have the feeling you are an employee of Nuvasive / Precice.
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How is it going @helloword ? I'm really looking forward to your videoblog :)
@notimportant have you something against Fitbone? You wrote only negativ comments.
I have the feeling you are an employee of Nuvasive / Precice.
Don't feed the troll, that's all I'm gonna say.
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Thanks for your message!
Going well!
I am lengthening at 0.55 - 0.65 mm per day, and that reduces that pain level a lot.
For example, today I have taken only half a Paracetamol and feel no pain.
I have heared that this actually does not slow down the process, "process" being the total time of:
1. operation and hospital
2. lengthening
3. recovery
What I mean is that if you do lengthening in 1 month then recovery will take 5 months and if you do lengthening in 3 months recoveru will take only 3 month, with the total time depending on many factors but not the rate of clicking.
I will post the videos, but I have to get my face blurred first. Hope to get this done soon.
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Thanks for your message!
Going well!
I am lengthening at 0.55 - 0.65 mm per day, and that reduces that pain level a lot.
For example, today I have taken only half a Paracetamol and feel no pain.
I have heared that this actually does not slow down the process, "process" being the total time of:
1. operation and hospital
2. lengthening
3. recovery
What I mean is that if you do lengthening in 1 month then recovery will take 5 months and if you do lengthening in 3 months recoveru will take only 3 month, with the total time depending on many factors but not the rate of clicking.
I will post the videos, but I have to get my face blurred first. Hope to get this done soon.
Sounds great. I also think that when I have my surgery (most probably with fitbone too) I will lengthen slowly and not force my body.
Nice to hear your are doing fine :)
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I'm not attacking Fitbone. I'm stating the obvious. Fitbone nails fail much more than they say. We have Helloworld, Musicmaker, the American guy...
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I'm not attacking Fitbone. I'm stating the obvious. Fitbone nails fail much more than they say. We have Helloworld, Musicmaker, the American guy...
You may be right, but I wouldnt asume MM had a nail failure, as far as I know she had an accident.
And Cooper's case seems more like he lost his trust on the doctor.
anyway, dr. Monegal seems very caring and friendly. There is no perfect doctor (I'm sure even Paley had bad cases) but as long as the doctor really cares about the patient and is willing to fix the possible issues, he will have my approval.
Fitbone is a german nail right? German people usually only make high quality products
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Wittenstein has been around for over 60 years, is valued at almost 1 billion USD, is a European company (SE) with headquarters in Germany and has several thousand employees around the globe.
Fitbone is only a small division within Wittenstein, that as far as I understand resulted from the medical doctor/engineer Baumgart and Wittenstein.
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Here are my x-rays from today:
http://imgur.com/a/fd5Bo
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Here are my x-rays from today:
http://imgur.com/a/fd5Bo
Show off!
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There were several implant malfunctions in Musicmaker's case like in Helloworld's. It's well documented in the forum. Accident was another complication but implants failed without any accident. I don't know the details about the failure of the American guy but this guy had many complications too.
Helloworld's cloud is very good IMHO
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Notimportant: thanks for your positive opinion :-)
There are 4 forces at play in determining success:
1. Patient
2. Surgeon
3. Implant
4. Luck
In my particular case I would assume doctor and patient (me) did everything correct and it was mainly bad luck and implant.
I think in many cases it is patient fault, like lengthening too fast, not following recovery program, smoking, wrong nutrition, putting too much weight on implant too quickly.
But no surgeon nor implant is perfect, so combined with bad luck, we can all have complications. I had one, but I would say a small one, as I am now doing very well.
I decided that Internal LL, Monegal, Barcelona and Fitbone was the best combination at the time and would still take that decision today.
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When I say bad luck and implant, were the cause for me to have to get a replacement implant, I actually would not say that the implant manufacturer was at fault. In fact, I think the company has done everything correctly to assure the best quality and 100% functioning. But there is always the element of luck and nothing is 100%.
So I would not say that the implant manufacturer was at fault, but I would say that in my cases the failure falls within their area of responsibility.
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Does Monegal recommends you to walk with a walker too or you are just in wheelchair??? Which would be the protocol if the patient is overweighted?
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The protocol is:
5 days bed only in hospital
from 5 days stand up and sit in chair
one week in wheelchair only in rehab
after 2 weeks walk between bars
shortly after use the bike
once stiches removed and wounds healed use the pool
once x-ray show some bone growth, you can use walker (so I started using walker after my x-rays last week, 7 weeks after operation)
I weight 80 kg. The more you weigh, the more careful you have to be.
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Bilateral vs unilateral lengthening
My surgeon, Dr. Monegal, prefers unilateral lengthening and I am sure there a good reasons for that. However, after having gone through bilateral procedures and having shared experience with many unilateral patients, I very glad I did bilateral and wanna tell you why:
Mobility
A unilateral patient is supposed to be more mobile as he as one “normal” leg. However, I have not seen a big difference between me and unilateral patients:
Neither of us can walk normally.
I am faster in a wheelchair than they are on crutches.
I have been able to stand up early on, which is actually easier for me as my legs are equal length.
I am able to swim, to bike, to walk with arm support.
Many exercises seem to be easier for me as I have both legs in the same conditions.
Pain
A bilateral patient is supposed to have twice the pain. I think the opposite is true. Comparing pain levels it seems that mine are the same or lower to unilateral patients. My explanation is that pain is a signal of the body that something is wrong. Having 2 legs broken instead of 1 does not make that signal stronger. In fact, I believe it is easier for your brain to accept the condition as normal and thus stop the pain, as your brain does not have a “normal” leg to compare to, while a bilateral patient always knows what a normal leg should feel like and that this is different from the broken leg.
Mindset
You need a lot of determination to do everything you can as a patient to speed up recovery as well as to endure pain and bad sleep.
For that it is important to see the light at the end of the tunel! For me I will be done with the lengthening in about 2 weeks and then just consolidate. For the unilateral patients they are going through the same bad time as me only to know that after one is finally done they still have to do another!
Speed
As far as I have understood, the total time of lengthening + recovery is decreased by increasing the lengthening speed. So if you extract at 2 mm a day you will have tight muscles and a big gap in your bone that takes a long time to recover. If you do 0.7 mm a day your muscles at the end of lengthening will already have adjusted and your bone gap will almost be consolidated so the total recovery time is not longer but maybe shorter!
And of course lengthening at 0.7 mm means you have much less pain!
On the other hand, I understand people that want to just get over with this process asap, which is possible if you both legs at the same time, but at a slow rate.
Work
Unilateral patients are supposed to be able to work while lengthening.
Personally, I think that this will be difficult unless you are able to sleep well during night which most patients are not.
On the other hand I am working from home office with a similar productivity as before, just not able to work from the office. Actually, I guess by now I even could work from the office, but as I need an afternoon nap, I work from home.
For all those reasons, from a patient experience I would advise bilateral lengthening.
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Stop spamming, u posted this in 2 threads. BOTH DIARIES. Come one dude...
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Because I believe this information is important, dude.
One diary is mine, the other diary is of my good friend, neighbor and fellow patient.
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http://imgur.com/a/aFYSo
My x-rays.
Generally, I am happy with them.
There is good bone cloud but still not so much that I have to be worried about preconsolidation.
The only two things that worry me a bit are:
1. the outrgrowth of callus on the left leg
2. the slightly bend nail in the right leg
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Auron's X-rays are better. These X-rays are to be worried. Bone is good. Other issues aren't good. You're right.
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Auron's X-rays are better. These X-rays are to be worried. Bone is good. Other issues aren't good. You're right.
Thanks for feedback!
What would be most worrying to you?
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What is the doctor saying about these x-rays?
They seem fine to me, but I don't really know
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He is saying fine!
BUt that I should be careful with putting on weight (I weigh 80 kg), so screw does not bent further and that the callus outgrowth is not worrying as the bone will reform.
He also said that bone formation is fast enough, to potentially preconsolidate, should I not lengthen at least 0.7 mm per day.
I am currently at 4.3 cm and want to get to 5.5 cm, so less than 20 days left.
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He is saying fine!
BUt that I should be careful with putting on weight (I weigh 80 kg), so screw does not bent further and that the callus outgrowth is not worrying as the bone will reform.
He also said that bone formation is fast enough, to potentially preconsolidate, should I not lengthen at least 0.7 mm per day.
I am currently at 4.3 cm and want to get to 5.5 cm, so less than 20 days left.
Thanks for answering. You are very near. Good luck!
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Thanks for your wishes!
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hello world,
sorry for not updating more regularly.
Everything is going fine!
I left the MIC, the recovery residence in Barcelona, 3 weeks ago and now live very close to my office and to my gym.
So I go to my office every day and work there the whole day interrupted just by me going to the gym twice a day, which is next door.
Thus, I feel I have returned to normal life.
I just have to constantly use a walking frame. But in fact, this does not bother me, as I got one with wheels : https://www.amazon.es/Aidapt-VP178-Andador-de-aluminio/dp/B002NPSKWA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1488148637&sr=8-2&keywords=walking+frame
That allows me walk at normal speed. The only pain is on my triceps as I am constantly leaning forward and thus putting the majority of my weight on the frame, to keep it off my legs.
Also, since about 3 weeks I have not taken any pain medication but still have for the most part been able to sleep without interruption.
The last x rays were great. Good bone consolodation and the screw that seems a little bit bend 3 weeks before did not get any worse, so no problem.
I did notice though the the gap in the x-rays was substanstially less than what I had predicted from recording and counting all the clicks I made. According to my clicks it should have been more than 6 cm, while in fact it was less than 5 cm! And when I measure my height I only notice an increase of 4 cm, maximum 4.5 cm. Thus I am lengthening for 2.5 more weeks to get 1 more additional cm of heigh gain and will then stop.
At the beginning I expected lengthening to take 2 months and now it will be 4 months! However, as my daily routine returned to normal and I get normal sleep and normal work hours, I do not care about this very much.
While still lengthening I am already recovering muscle strength; over the last 3 weeks I have already been able to almost double the weight that my legs are able to lift, and at several machines for leg workout I am already at the maximum weight.
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So its true what I read about Fitbone not accurate
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Helloworld,
Maybe your femur is in preconsolidation phase, because it a lot of time 3,5 month for 4,5 cms, and for that reason the fitbone have enough power to move the bone and the engine turn around his axis. Try to put in Doctor Mode, it is more powerfull
See the topic of Krp1, he preconsolidated about 7 cms, other patients arround 6,5 cms in 90 days.
Good luck buddy.
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Yagan, thanks for the advice!
You might be read about preconsolidation, or at least sufficient bone cloud to make it difficult for the screws to do the full 0.03 mm.
In fact, it happended several times that I could her some noise of the screw, but no full turn and no counting on the device. In those case I did exactly as you advised, I turned to doctor mode and did like 10 rapid turns, and speeded up the lengthening process, so to avoid preconsolidation. But once I get all clicks to to work without a problem, I slow down the lengthening again.
So you could see, that I am lengthening at a slow speed, just enough to avoid consolidation. This is because lengthening at a slow speed is much more comfortable, seem to follow the natural growth process more naturally, and I was scared to click to fast, having been aware that a patient, I think the name being "American guy", lengthened at 2mm per day and caused nerve damage.
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Yagan, thanks for the advice!
You might be read about preconsolidation, or at least sufficient bone cloud to make it difficult for the screws to do the full 0.03 mm.
In fact, it happended several times that I could her some noise of the screw, but no full turn and no counting on the device. In those case I did exactly as you advised, I turned to doctor mode and did like 10 rapid turns, and speeded up the lengthening process, so to avoid preconsolidation. But once I get all clicks to to work without a problem, I slow down the lengthening again.
So you could see, that I am lengthening at a slow speed, just enough to avoid consolidation. This is because lengthening at a slow speed is much more comfortable, seem to follow the natural growth process more naturally, and I was scared to click to fast, having been aware that a patient, I think the name being "American guy", lengthened at 2mm per day and caused nerve damage.
If you are doing your lengthening at less than 1mm per day and you have good consolidation . Speed It Up now. And in doctor Mode like yagen told you. You are probably lengthening at a lower rate than what you think.its very easy to preconsolidate.
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OK! I got the message. I will speed up.
There should only be 2 weeks left anyway, for me to reach my goal. But as I already got a dense bone cloud, I will follow your, Yagan's, and Dr. Monegal's advice and speed up.
However, my physiotherapist, Claudio, said that preconsolidation is almost impossible to happen, more likely is too little bone formation, which is why I might have underestimated the risk.
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OK! I got the message. I will speed up.
There should only be 2 weeks left anyway, for me to reach my goal. But as I already got a dense bone cloud, I will follow your, Yagan's, and Dr. Monegal's advice and speed up.
However, my physiotherapist, Claudio, said that preconsolidation is almost impossible to happen, more likely is too little bone formation, which is why I might have underestimated the risk.
Pre-consolidation is a very real "risk" when you lengthening the femurs... Much more than the tibias (because of greater blood supply). That's why docs usually say 1mm a day for femurs... It's because they consolidate much faster than tibs (usually)
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OK! I got the message. I will speed up.
There should only be 2 weeks left anyway, for me to reach my goal. But as I already got a dense bone cloud, I will follow your, Yagan's, and Dr. Monegal's advice and speed up.
However, my physiotherapist, Claudio, said that preconsolidation is almost impossible to happen, more likely is too little bone formation, which is why I might have underestimated the risk.
Your what? You shouldn't listen to that guy. He has no clue. He is not a physiotherapist. Didn't you know? The doctors from Clinica Diagonal told Cooper he wasn't and some patients checked the internet and the data of the Collegio de Fisioterapetuas and he is illegal and he also hurt some patients according to one expatient. Prove me I'm not right.
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Thanks for your advice!
Notimportant, you know a lot of details!
Claudio is not only the "physiotherapist" but also in the surgery team of the doctor and talks to the doctor every week, so you can see him as the right hand of Dr. Monegal.
"Physio with certificate" or "physio without certificate" the most important is the knowledge in physiotherapy and of the specific patient.
Doctor Monegal has told me to lengthen faster, many of you have told me the same, so today I started lengthening faster :-)
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Was Doctor Monegal who recommended him? That's even worse! I heard that this shady guy working in Diagonal cleaning the operating room showed up in patients' rooms to fish patients saying he was a physiotherapist while he wasn't but I didn't know it was the doctor himself who recommended him. In that case it's the doctor who could be sued and not only the fake physiotherapist without a license. Why would a Doctor recommend a guy who isn't licensed? That's stupid! Monegals business as a whole is shady: dishonest doctor, faulty nail, fake physiotherapist.
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Hello Notimportant,
you are using very strong languague about something it seems that you have only read about.
I, and 6 other lengthening patients that did the procedure at about the same time as me at Dr. Monegal and all got to know first hand
Dr. Monegal, Fitbone, Clinica Diagonal, Mic residency, are all very happy and all so far seem to be successful results.
The nail failure I had was not a serious complication. It was "just" the replacement of the implant. While it true that my left leg, which had the replacement, is doing a little worse than my right -less muscle strength, some pain, less lengthening, less flexibility- I assume that I will be 99% recovered in a few months.
So from all the patients I met, only musicmaker is not very happy with the outcome, even though she is improving. But even she thinks that Dr. Monegal and Fitbone are among the best combinations for cosmetic limb lengthening.
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Hello Notimportant,
you are using very strong languague about something it seems that you have only read about.
I, and 6 other lengthening patients that did the procedure at about the same time as me at Dr. Monegal and all got to know first hand
Dr. Monegal, Fitbone, Clinica Diagonal, Mic residency, are all very happy and all so far seem to be successful results.
The nail failure I had was not a serious complication. It was "just" the replacement of the implant. While it true that my left leg, which had the replacement, is doing a little worse than my right -less muscle strength, some pain, less lengthening, less flexibility- I assume that I will be 99% recovered in a few months.
So from all the patients I met, only musicmaker is not very happy with the outcome, even though she is improving. But even she thinks that Dr. Monegal and Fitbone are among the best combinations for cosmetic limb lengthening.
I'm starting to think he is LLuser1. A bit less agressive version of LLuser1, tho. I wouldn't pay him much attention...
Glad to hear everythings going fine. Monegal is my top 1 choice and I'm really interested in your (and all of his patientes) wellbeing.
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I'm not Lluser but I agree with him. My language isn't strong. This is very serious. The Doctor has allowed this guy to make profit of his patients and earn money without proper qualifications. If he's not a phsyiotherapist (the staff from the Clinica Diagonal said to Cooper and other patients and they verified in the Colegie de Fisioterapeautes) why does the Doctor allow him to act as such? I had heard this shady fake PT was fishing patients in the rooms of the Clinica and pushing them to hire him saying he was a physiotherapist and he wasn't. I didn't know it was Doctor Monegal who promoted that and that makes me think he's not honest.
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The reason for promoting that particular person trainer, is that he sees Dr. Monegal every week and exchange patient information with him. Also, Dr. Monegal has control over him.
For example, I know of a patient, who was not very happy about an issue and talked to Dr. Monegal, and Dr. Monegal talked to the personal trainer, and the issue was resolved.
So it is good that Dr. has close contact to the person helping you in recovery.
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I'm not Lluser but I agree with him. My language isn't strong. This is very serious. The Doctor has allowed this guy to make profit of his patients and earn money without proper qualifications. If he's not a phsyiotherapist (the staff from the Clinica Diagonal said to Cooper and other patients and they verified in the Colegie de Fisioterapeautes) why does the Doctor allow him to act as such? I had heard this shady fake PT was fishing patients in the rooms of the Clinica and pushing them to hire him saying he was a physiotherapist and he wasn't. I didn't know it was Doctor Monegal who promoted that and that makes me think he's not honest.
I'm not sure, but I think maybe he is not registered at "Colegie de Fisioterapeutes" because thats probably just the catalonian register. If he studied physioterapy in some other part of Spain he may be registered there.
I don't know, maybe he is a close friend of Monegal and he makes a favor delivering patients to him and maybe he is not physioterapist but studied other health-related career. Illegal practice is not that easy in Spain, which may be a country with major flaws, but still one of the safest countries in the world.
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You aren't right. He hasn't a university degree at all. I have been talking to some people. Claudio lied he was a doctor and a physiotherapist and expatients have screenshots to prove that he said that so the guy could go to JAIL. I can send this to moderators. Yes JAIL. YES ILLEGAL. He said publicly he was a physiotherapist and he worked as such but he wasn't. I can't understand why this doctor decided to keep him when he lied deliberately to EVERYBODY (PATIENTS AND PEOPLE IN THE INTERNET) about his credentials. He's just the illiterate guy who cleans the operating room and does Xrays in operating room but has no clue about medicine or physiotherapy.
One user in the forum has just sent me this PM,
Claudio works un clínica diagonal. He works un the radiology team. But he isnt a doctor, he works with the xrays.
He IS not a physio and he charges 1200 euros for a pack of sessions for Two months (around 30 sessionsThats) or 40 euros per session.Thats a lot in Spain. Most physios doesnt charge more than 30 euros per session and they they are true physios. Claudio IS a personal trainer. But he hasnt got any universitary title.
Report To Admin
Other guy told me in Spain good personal trainers have a degree in sport science but this guy hasn't a degree and charges more than real physhios and trainers. This guy also told me there are many expatients who are not happy with Claudio and he should be exposed.
The reason Helloworld says for choosing him is BS. The doctor could talk every week to real physiotherapist and not to a fake one who lies. If he's a close friend that's not a good reason to choose him. Only a dishonest doctor would allow a shady guy to take advantage of his patients like this.
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Notimportant, it seems that you are better informed than me. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
But I know that in my case Claudio suggested to do less sessions per week as I was recovering fast, and he suggested to do only 15 sessions in total, for which I paid 500 euro.
Why would the Doctor recommend him, if it was not for the fact that he trusted Claudio to do a good job? Do you think that the Doctor gets maybe a 10% commission, 50 euro? Do you think the Doctor would care about 50 euro?
And do you think it is possible to be good at something without having a certificate in it? For example, do you think LeBron James could play basketball well, even without having a certifate in basketball nor having completed university? Or do you think Leo Messi is able to play football?
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Notimportant, it seems that you are better informed than me. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
But I know that in my case Claudio suggested to do less sessions per week as I was recovering fast, and he suggested to do only 15 sessions in total, for which I paid 500 euro.
Why would the Doctor recommend him, if it was not for the fact that he trusted Claudio to do a good job? Do you think that the Doctor gets maybe a 10% commission, 50 euro? Do you think the Doctor would care about 50 euro?
And do you think it is possible to be good at something without having a certificate in it? For example, do you think LeBron James could play basketball well, even without having a certifate in basketball nor having completed university? Or do you think Leo Messi is able to play football?
Are you seriously comparing a sport to getting a degree in physiotherapy? It's the same logic of comparing LeBron to a doctor. Someone can be a good surgeon without studying no?
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Would you trust a doctor who isn't licensed to work as a doctor? We're playing with human health. It's your legs. When your bone and soft tissues have been damaged you need a physiotherapist to take care of you not a personal trainer or in this case a clueless person with no degree. Yes degrees are important. You have a Phd. You should know.
One of the guys told me Claudio can't barely speak English so there were constant misunderstandings with international patients about how to manage recovery. He didn't know the name of the muscles. Be careful because he doesn't know what he is doing and can hurt you like he did to other expatients. They also told me the guy watches you biking and stretches you for 10 or 15 min. Is it worth 40$? Answer is no. Get a real cheaper PT who knows what he's doing.
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I got the PhD in order to have something people recognize, but it did not make me any smarter.
I thought it helps that the "physio", even if he might have that certificate, talk to Dr. Monegal regularly and has treated many patients, who have undergone the same procedure.
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From an outside perspective, it's amazing how much people defend Monegal and his practices regardless of what they are - including
blatant advertisement sorry, recommendations of his in other diaries of patients under other doctors. He's either the best doctor in the world to earn such a defense or there is another reason which I am unaware of. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with an unlicensed physiotherapist masquerading as a licensed one regardless of how competent he is - there are certain professional levels expected in relation to medical procedure.
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From an outside perspective, it's amazing how much people defend Monegal and his practices regardless of what they are - including blatant advertisement sorry, recommendations of his in other diaries of patients under other doctors. He's either the best doctor in the world to earn such a defense or there is another reason which I am unaware of. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with an unlicensed physiotherapist masquerading as a licensed one regardless of how competent he is - there are certain professional levels expected in relation to medical procedure.
Why wouldn't we when we see the blatant lies and character assassinations here when what we have experienced firsthand is the complete opposite? Regarding Claudio, have you bothered to find out the facts first before jumping on the bandwagon with your snide and cowardly comments?
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Why wouldn't we when we see the blatant lies and character assassinations here when what we have experienced firsthand is the complete opposite?
Refuting the claims with your own personal experience is completely understandable and important for this forum, my issue is with those who consistently deny that there have been complications under Monegal to which he was responsible and the manner they do it in, it almost borders into fanaticism in the way they are written, always aggressive, often abusive and usually very written in a very similar way to those who dare criticize. I just find it very odd and your response does very little to disprove it with the way you have reacted.
The posts that are almost advertisements for Monegal on completely unrelated threads I completely disagree with.
Regarding Claudio, have you bothered to find out the facts first before jumping on the bandwagon with your snide and cowardly comments?
Why are the facts regarding Claudio being a licensed or unlicensed physiotherapist relevant to the comment I made? I didn't intimate either way that he was or wasn't licensed, in fact I don't believe I mentioned Claudio at all. What I did say was;
'Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable with an unlicensed physiotherapist masquerading as a licensed one regardless of how competent he is - there are certain professional levels expected in relation to medical procedure.
Which was mostly in response to helloworld stating;
And do you think it is possible to be good at something without having a certificate in it? For example, do you think LeBron James could play basketball well, even without having a certifate in basketball nor having completed university? Or do you think Leo Messi is able to play football?
Which appeared to state that whether a physiotherapist was or wasn't qualified wasn't important. I will repeat what I said once more, I wouldn't be comfortable with an unlicensed physiotherapist masquerading as a licensed one regardless of how competent he is - there are certain professional levels expected in relation to medical procedure and I stand by it. I meant this in an all encompassing sense about any and all doctors offering physical therapy. Whether Claudio is or isn't really is beside the point of my post and I am not particularly interested.
I have no reason nor intent to criticize or attack Dr Monegal or any other doctor and am certainly not on anybody's 'bandwagon', my post was tongue in cheek and more critical of users here and how the manner in which they react in any discussion of Monegal - clearly somewhat accurate. Your aggressive and condescending manner as a representative patient in responses to absolutely any comment is likely more damaging to Dr Monegal than the initial criticism. Have a good evening Antonio.
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im so exited for you
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Having a physiotherapist is very important. I wouldn't trust a person who isn't a true physiotherapist. The worst part is Claudio lied and said he was a physiotherapist. Expatients can prove it because they went to the College to check. Besides he isn't so competent because some people were hurt by him according to notimportant. Antonio did you have physical therapy with him? Can you prove he is a physiotherapist? Helloworld is kind of accepting he isn't a physiotherapist so I guess Notimportant is right.
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im so exited for you
Thanks! :D
Me too. Cannot wait till my final bone measurement in two week from today.
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Having a physiotherapist is very important. I wouldn't trust a person who isn't a true physiotherapist. The worst part is Claudio lied and said he was a physiotherapist. Expatients can prove it because they went to the College to check. Besides he isn't so competent because some people were hurt by him according to notimportant. Antonio did you have physical therapy with him? Can you prove he is a physiotherapist? Helloworld is kind of accepting he isn't a physiotherapist so I guess Notimportant is right.
As far as I know, Claudio does not have the Spanish licence. But he can still work as a personal trainer for physical rehabilitation, and for me the best term to describe it is "physiotherapist".
If he stated "physiotherapist" he probably just wanted to simplify the term "ersonal trainer for physical rehabilitation".
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While Claudio may well be an accomplished and capable personal trainer, there is a substantial difference between a personal trainer, even one with years of experience and a qualified physiotherapist who has undergone years of moderated university study, supervised practice, placements and examinations leading to a degree to ensure they are proficient in their role.
I have never heard of a personal trainer, even one who is training their client in physical rehabilitation described or describe themselves as a physiotherapist, this would be similar to someone who has undergone a 2 day course first aid training just attempting to simplify the term by calling themselves a medical doctor as this would be quite the misrepresentation. It would probably be beneficial for users to avoid calling Claudio a physiotherapist in the future to avoid this misunderstanding and criticism, if it is indeed true that Claudio is not a licensed physiotherapist. Maybe somebody in touch with Monegal or Claudio should seek clarification to put this issue to rest.
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Just came back from a nice excursion to the beach town Sitges, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitges, with musicmaker, Auron, another patient and Dr. Monegal. Dr. Monegal invited all of us to his new restaurant next to the beach.
All the patients are doing well and all were happy.
About Claudio: Dr. Monegal says that his qualification is not from Spain, and thus he would have to do a license, which he has not done yet. However, the doctor knows Claudio very well and trusts him a lot.
When I asked the doctor about Cooper diary the doctor became quite emotional as he was blocked by the patient on all communication channels before he got a chance to correct a condition. He was telling us about a lot of cases that he gets regularly from other limb lengthening doctors especially from Russian and Serbia, where he has to correct other doctor's bad results and about the non-cosmetic cases where he is able to make a real positive impact on patient's life, where people show their gratitude, while some of the cosmetic patient just assume that there is no risk and anything that is less from perfect is the doctor's fault.
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Just came back from a nice excursion to the beach town Sitges, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitges, with musicmaker, Auron, another patient and Dr. Monegal. Dr. Monegal invited all of us to his new restaurant next to the beach. All the patients are doing well and all were happy.
This sounds fantastic, it's so important to socialize and maintain a positive outlook during the procedure and I'm sure bonding and going on excursions with others is great for morale. What did everyone have to eat?
About Claudio: Dr. Monegal says that his qualification is not from Spain, and thus he would have to do a license, which he has not done yet. However, the doctor knows Claudio very well and trusts him a lot.
Thank you for the clarification.
When I asked the doctor about Cooper diary the doctor became quite emotional as he was blocked by the patient on all communication channels before he got a chance to correct a condition. He was telling us about a lot of cases that he gets regularly from other limb lengthening doctors especially from Russian and Serbia, where he has to correct other doctor's bad results and about the non-cosmetic cases where he is able to make a real positive impact on patient's life, where people show their gratitude, while some of the cosmetic patient just assume that there is no risk and anything that is less from perfect is the doctor's fault.
While I do agree many people do not treat the risks associated with limb lengthening as seriously as they should, I don't believe many believe there is no risk. I assume they believe that with a good doctor the risks are drastically reduced and expect at least somewhat of a satisfactory outcome for the money and time they are investing meaning when very severe, possibly permanent and disabling complications arise they are understandably upset and hold the doctor responsible - whether the blame lies with the doctor or not. What I will say is what Cooper endured was severe, painful, damaging and frustrating so I can somewhat understand that he felt he needed to go elsewhere to solve his issues if he personally felt unable to trust Monegal further and wasn't satisfied with his experience - this is a patients prerogative and we ought to respect that.
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This sounds fantastic, it's so important to socialize and maintain a positive outlook during the procedure and I'm sure bonding and going on excursions with others is great for morale. What did everyone have to eat?
Thank you for the clarification.
Welcome!
While I do agree many people do not treat the risks associated with limb lengthening as seriously as they should, I don't believe many believe there is no risk. I assume they believe that with a good doctor the risks are drastically reduced and expect at least somewhat of a satisfactory outcome for the money and time they are investing meaning when very severe, possibly permanent and disabling complications arise they are understandably upset and hold the doctor responsible - whether the blame lies with the doctor or not. What I will say is what Cooper endured was severe, painful, damaging and frustrating so I can somewhat understand that he felt he needed to go elsewhere to solve his issues if he personally felt unable to trust Monegal further and wasn't satisfied with his experience - this is a patients prerogative and we ought to respect that.
1.
I agree! :-)
Argentinian menu: empanada, beef in different forms, salad, some catalan specialty, salad with squid, red wine.
2. Welcome
3. From the almost 10 patients of Dr. Monegal, I got to know personally, all were satisfied. I do not know the specifics of the Cooper situation and have never talked to him.
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Cooper was messed, but even Paley has had mistakes. Internal tibia is difficult to perform.
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Helloworld I would ask you not to lie but you have become like all Spaniards. Claudio doesn't have a university degree in Spain nor in South America nor in physiotherapist nor in sport science. He has literally nothing but a ty certificate from a 6 month sport course, not university level and valid for nothing. Prove me he has a degree. One prospective patient who didn't get the surgery investigated and you can get the same qualification he has by doing a 2 days online course. The worst thing for me is the Doctor is recommending him instead of a true physiotherapist. Time will tell. One day he will fk a patient he will go to jail and I will publish this in the forum.
there are other patients with complications apart from Coper and you know it. Your friend Musicmaker for example is the worst case but there are many others, virtually nobody without complications.
Congratulations for the food. Food is the only good thing about the Spanish LL option. But I think he has bought your silence with that food all of you.
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Helloworld I would ask you not to lie but you have become like all Spaniards. Claudio doesn't have a university degree in Spain nor in South America nor in physiotherapist nor in sport science. He has literally nothing but a crapty certificate from a 6 month sport course, not university level and valid for nothing. Prove me he has a degree. One prospective patient who didn't get the surgery investigated and you can get the same qualification he has by doing a 2 days online course. The worst thing for me is the Doctor is recommending him instead of a true physiotherapist. Time will tell. One day he will fk a patient he will go to jail and I will publish this in the forum.
there are other patients with complications apart from Coper and you know it. Your friend Musicmaker for example is the worst case but there are many others, virtually nobody without complications.
Congratulations for the food. Food is the only good thing about the Spanish LL option. But I think he has bought your silence with that food all of you.
Notimportant, thanks for your advice. You can rest assured that I have never lied in this forum, nor tried to make people think certain positive things that I do not believe myself.
There are many other patients apart from Cooper but none of them is patient of Monegal. In fact, I think Monegal has almost as amny patients that asked him to do corrections from LL surgery they had done with several Russian doctors, Mitkovic and Guichet, as new cosmetic limb lengthening patients. Also, from all the patients I met, I met 8 patients that are all doing fine, apart from having muscle tension and sometimes even pain, but no complication, except for myself who had to have a fitbone replaced. The only one is musicmaker, who did have a lot of problems, due to primarily bad luck and also implant failure, and probably also some doctor and patient fault. But even musicmaker highly recommends Dr. Monegal!!!
I admit that when I chose Dr. Monegal I thought: "This is cheapest option in internal limb lengthening within developed countries and I do not see any reason why he would be worse than the other options like Paley, Baumgart or Guichet." However, this has changed to "OMG I got not only the cheapest but also the best, better than Paley, Baumgart and Guichet."
About Dr. Monegal inviting us to "buy" promotion or "buy" silence: I know that he also has invited other patients twice to watch football games of FC Barcelona and neither patient has a diary. I felt the real reason was that Dr. Monegal was extremely happy when the x-rays of all the patients where good, even that of musicmaker, because it was right after he saw the musicmaker's x-rays that he invited all of us, while being at the clinic together.
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Notimportant, people are following my diary wanting to know more about my experience, in order to see if LL is for them, and if to do it in Spain. That is why it is important that everything I write is the truth and ideally verified and not just opinion. But the same goes for you! So as you seem to have read a lot of patient experiences, maybe you could make a list of actual Monegal patients that have a positive opinion vs. those that have a negative opinion.
On this forum I have counted the following:
Negative opinion: 2 Cooper, LLuser (not sure if he is patient)
Positive opinion: 13 helloworld, Musicmaker, Auron, Yagan, Krp1, Antonio, Bohemia, Crimsontide, SnD, glenn, aboali, nomad, shortdarkandhandsome.
You seem quite intelligent, notimportant, so I am surprised you would come to the conclusion that Dr. Monegal is a bad doctor or is there anything that I am missing?
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Helloworld, why do you care so much for someone that keeps attacking a doctor for some bad cases without ever mentioning that there are much more good cases too?
For veteran LL'ers like me, the real evidence of a doctor's work is the x rays of the patients and then everything else. And from the Xrays I saw from 3 Monegal's patiemts (yours, Yagen and Antonio) his work is professional.
We are talking for an internal nail ffs, not for a complicated ilizarov fixator, most of the professional doctors can put an internal nail safely in femurs, so imo most of the doctors that do surgeries in the west countries and in up to date hospitals are good options.
And Monegal's price is much more sensible compared to ridiculous prices like Guichet and then Betz who both have old fashioned nails compared to fit bone. America's doctors are much pricier but I think they are maybe the best (I'm talking about Paley and Rozbruch) and also prices in USA are much higher for everything that has to do with health, but in EU I truly believe that is ridiculous for a French doctor with an ancient nail to have prices like 60-70k euros, make patients real athletes before surgery and still have most of the times mediocre outcomes. You all know for whom I'm talking.
So, for Europe and if his prices stay the same, dr Monegal seems a good choice for me, at least from what I saw eith my own eyes from patients X rays.
But I must see some more diaries to trust him so much to think to do my femur LL with him.
Helloworld, keep strong!
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For veteran LL'ers like me, the real evidence of a doctor's work is the x rays of the patients and then everything else. And from the Xrays I saw from 3 Monegal's patiemts (yours, Yagen and Antonio) his work is professional.
Man, I feel left out :(
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Man, I feel left out :(
You are right.
I've seen yours also my friend and they are maybe the best of all Monegal's patients I've seen, although that has to do with your fast bone consolidation because and the other patients x rays was good without anything weird.
My apologies. :D
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Notimportant, thanks for your advice. You can rest assured that I have never lied in this forum, nor tried to make people think certain positive things that I do not believe myself.
There are many other patients apart from Cooper but none of them is patient of Monegal. In fact, I think Monegal has almost as amny patients that asked him to do corrections from LL surgery they had done with several Russian doctors, Mitkovic and Guichet, as new cosmetic limb lengthening patients. Also, from all the patients I met, I met 8 patients that are all doing fine, apart from having muscle tension and sometimes even pain, but no complication, except for myself who had to have a fitbone replaced. The only one is musicmaker, who did have a lot of problems, due to primarily bad luck and also implant failure, and probably also some doctor and patient fault. But even musicmaker highly recommends Dr. Monegal!!!
I admit that when I chose Dr. Monegal I thought: "This is cheapest option in internal limb lengthening within developed countries and I do not see any reason why he would be worse than the other options like Paley, Baumgart or Guichet." However, this has changed to "OMG I got not only the cheapest but also the best, better than Paley, Baumgart and Guichet."
About Dr. Monegal inviting us to "buy" promotion or "buy" silence: I know that he also has invited other patients twice to watch football games of FC Barcelona and neither patient has a diary. I felt the real reason was that Dr. Monegal was extremely happy when the x-rays of all the patients where good, even that of musicmaker, because it was right after he saw the musicmaker's x-rays that he invited all of us, while being at the clinic together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elGPryn51mI
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Notimportant, thanks for your advice. You can rest assured that I have never lied in this forum, nor tried to make people think certain positive things that I do not believe myself.
There are many other patients apart from Cooper but none of them is patient of Monegal. In fact, I think Monegal has almost as amny patients that asked him to do corrections from LL surgery they had done with several Russian doctors, Mitkovic and Guichet, as new cosmetic limb lengthening patients. Also, from all the patients I met, I met 8 patients that are all doing fine, apart from having muscle tension and sometimes even pain, but no complication, except for myself who had to have a fitbone replaced. The only one is musicmaker, who did have a lot of problems, due to primarily bad luck and also implant failure, and probably also some doctor and patient fault. But even musicmaker highly recommends Dr. Monegal!!!
I admit that when I chose Dr. Monegal I thought: "This is cheapest option in internal limb lengthening within developed countries and I do not see any reason why he would be worse than the other options like Paley, Baumgart or Guichet." However, this has changed to "OMG I got not only the cheapest but also the best, better than Paley, Baumgart and Guichet."
About Dr. Monegal inviting us to "buy" promotion or "buy" silence: I know that he also has invited other patients twice to watch football games of FC Barcelona and neither patient has a diary. I felt the real reason was that Dr. Monegal was extremely happy when the x-rays of all the patients where good, even that of musicmaker, because it was right after he saw the musicmaker's x-rays that he invited all of us, while being at the clinic together.
Wasn't this charming gentleman an inspiration to write this post?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1968-101-20A,_Joseph_Goebbels.jpg)
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Helloworld, why do you care so much for someone that keeps attacking a doctor for some bad cases without ever mentioning that there are much more good cases too?
For veteran LL'ers like me, the real evidence of a doctor's work is the x rays of the patients and then everything else. And from the Xrays I saw from 3 Monegal's patiemts (yours, Yagen and Antonio) his work is professional.
We are talking for an internal nail ffs, not for a complicated ilizarov fixator, most of the professional doctors can put an internal nail safely in femurs, so imo most of the doctors that do surgeries in the west countries and in up to date hospitals are good options.
And Monegal's price is much more sensible compared to ridiculous prices like Guichet and then Betz who both have old fashioned nails compared to fit bone. America's doctors are much pricier but I think they are maybe the best (I'm talking about Paley and Rozbruch) and also prices in USA are much higher for everything that has to do with health, but in EU I truly believe that is ridiculous for a French doctor with an ancient nail to have prices like 60-70k euros, make patients real athletes before surgery and still have most of the times mediocre outcomes. You all know for whom I'm talking.
So, for Europe and if his prices stay the same, dr Monegal seems a good choice for me, at least from what I saw eith my own eyes from patients X rays.
But I must see some more diaries to trust him so much to think to do my femur LL with him.
Helloworld, keep strong!
Bodybuilder, thanks for your encouragement.
I respond to Notimportant because I think he is quite knowledgable and has no bad intentions, just strong opinions based on one-sided or wrong information.
I do not respond to people like YourSpaceBoyfriend, who post images that some people could consider ofensive into my diary.
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Bodybuilder, thanks for your encouragement.
I respond to Notimportant because I think he is quite knowledgable and has no bad intentions, just strong opinions based on one-sided or wrong information.
I do not respond to people like YourSpaceBoyfriend, who post images that some people could consider ofensive into my diary.
However, this has changed to "OMG I got not only the cheapest but also the best, better than Paley, Baumgart and Guichet."
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Bodybuilder you havent' seen the xrays I've seen. Osteotomies were really poor. There were other issues with other patients: nail failure and screws loose, poor bone formation due to poor osteotomies, soft tissues problems for many patients, permanent nerve damage in teenage boy and nerve damage for others. Good cases, yes there are but there is virtually no patient without complication.
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Helloworld I would ask you not to lie but you have become like all Spaniards.
This statement is somewhat xenophobic, isn't it? And it is not the first:
Spanish people liars.
Funny thing is that it comes from a guy who has denied being LLuser1 although it is blatantly obvious that he is. That's a liar in my book... Dude, how about a bit of self-criticism before insulting a whole country?
For veteran LL'ers like me, the real evidence of a doctor's work is the x rays of the patients and then everything else.
We have had our differences but I applaud this idea.
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Bodybuilder you havent' seen the xrays I've seen. Osteotomies were really poor. There were other issues with other patients: nail failure and screws loose, poor bone formation due to poor osteotomies, soft tissues problems for many patients, permanent nerve damage in teenage boy and nerve damage for others. Good cases, yes there are but there is virtually no patient without complication.
- Nail failure: You are right. I am aware of two case: helloworld and musicmaker. Not a big problem though, Dr. replaced the nail.
Screw loose: You are right, though I have not met any patients (I met around 10) where it happened. But this is and even smaller problem. Just fix screw.
Poor osteotomies: Please provide some evidence.
Soft tissue problem: should depend solely on patient, and lengthening speed. The lengthening speed is same or less than elsewhere, so there should not be more soft tissue problems.
Permanent nerve damage: Most likely to be caused by patient lengthening at very high speed. There was one patient trying to max his height gains, lengthening 2mm a day, where this might have happened.
Good cases: All the people I have seen with my own eyes were good cases, except musicmaker.
Every doctor has some complications but as far as I am aware Dr. Monegal has less than others. Notimportant, do you think that Monegal has had more than Paley, Rozbruch, Betz, Baumgart or Guichet.
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Every doctor has some complications but as far as I am aware Dr. Monegal has less than others. Notimportant, do you think that Monegal has had more than Paley, Rozbruch, Betz, Baumgart or Guichet.
There's a difference between complications and negligence. Complications can arise and have nothing to so with the doctors actions. Negligence is when a doctor in over his head causes the patient harm. So yes all the doctors you mentioned have had patients with complications, I think what people are saying is that Monegal is in over his head in this particular area of orthopedics. Try to understand the distinction.
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I can't post the patients' xrays it's against the law.
Hellowrld you said about nail replacement no big problem but you said you had 3 surgeries for nail replacement. Additional surgeries mean more risks and possible long term complications
The nerve damage happened to a teenage guy. He wasn't doing 2 mm per day. He said it happened during surgery.
Soft tissues can be damaged during surgery too or for bad care after surgery.
6feetson thanks for your input.
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Helloworld I would ask you not to lie but you have become like all Spaniards. Claudio doesn't have a university degree in Spain nor in South America nor in physiotherapist nor in sport science. He has literally nothing but a crapty certificate from a 6 month sport course, not university level and valid for nothing. Prove me he has a degree. One prospective patient who didn't get the surgery investigated and you can get the same qualification he has by doing a 2 days online course. The worst thing for me is the Doctor is recommending him instead of a true physiotherapist. Time will tell. One day he will fk a patient he will go to jail and I will publish this in the forum.
there are other patients with complications apart from Coper and you know it. Your friend Musicmaker for example is the worst case but there are many others, virtually nobody without complications.
Congratulations for the food. Food is the only good thing about the Spanish LL option. But I think he has bought your silence with that food all of you.
Lluser1 100% confirmed
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Hellowrld you said about nail replacement no big problem but you said you had 3 surgeries for nail replacement. Additional surgeries mean more risks and possible long term complications
Notimportant, you are right.
But from the 2 additional operations, one was just taking out the sensor, located under the skin.
About long term complications : so far everything seems fine just that my left leg has less strength.
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Today, I had my x-ray done and everything was fine, but the lengthened amount was less than expected. According to the clicks of Fitbone I should be at almost 8 cm as I have done close to 2500 clicks for each leg, but in reality I am only at 5,5 cm and in height gain this is about 5 cm.
I would like to do at least 1 cm more, but Auron and Musicmaker are telling me this would be bad for my proportions. What do you think?
Pictures taken 5 minutes ago: http://imgur.com/a/OLm7N
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How are you able to stand without crutches? Isn't fitbone just like precise unable to bear body weight?
But you should stop as your tibs start to look short compared to thighs
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Thanks for the advice Tibike.
The ratio tibia to femur is 0,72.
But that is the tibia length without the feet, and the femur lengthe measured from end to end and not to trochanter.
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how are you able to stand? :o Fitbone is not weight bearing right?
btw you seem to be in great shape even after lengthening!
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Standing is not a problem for fitbone. You're not advised to walk unaided until you finish the lengthening phase though.
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How are you able to stand without crutches? Isn't fitbone just like precise unable to bear body weight?
Dr. Monegal advised me so stand up already around 2 weeks after surgery.
Standing is no problem, the problem is walking, where for a split second you put all your weight on one leg.
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a 0.72 ratio is already shorter than minimum (as expected from femoral LL)
Stop now in my opinion. I let my GF look at it (without saying you are an LL patient but an amateur body builder from my gym) and she said your tibs look short
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a 0.72 ratio is already shorter than minimum (as expected from femoral LL)
Stop now in my opinion. I let my GF look at it (without saying you are an LL patient but an amateur body builder from my gym) and she said your tibs look short
I wanted to continue, but coming from the Clinic and clicking I was unable to do more clicks :-(
The screw just does not turn anymore!
I will see if I get it to turn later.
Thanks a lot for caring enough to have other people look at it!!!
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It seems I understood wrongly Fitbone... can you walk in walker/crutches after the surgery, or do you have to be in a wheelchair. How long do you have to wait to be able to walk?
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Wow I didn't know this was possible with Fitbone. Even with Precice most people on the forum don't stand while lengthening.
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You look great!!!! you look slim fit but your abs are painted, aren´t they? :P :P :P
jajjajaa
I am very happy for you
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Your proportions look great. I doubt if most LL'ers who do femurs look even close to that. You could easily lengthen 1 cm more.
I always find tibia LL better aesthitically because femurs are already taller that tibias and more lengthening would look weird but in your case I don't think that anything looks disproportionate.
And also your body looks great considering that you can't work out, at least completely, because you were lengthening. What did you do to maintain your body? I am asking because I want to maintain as much as I can my body too when I'll do femurs.
The only bad thing for me is that fitbone didn't let you lengthen as much as you wanted.
You are close to your aim of course but I still find it unacceptable to turn much more than you lengthen and at the end not even be able to reach the height you wanted.
So what is the opinion of Dr Monegal about all these?
Because when I'll lengthen again I really want to have the ability to lengthen as much as my body can tolerate and not lengthen less due to other reasons like problems with nail.
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You look great!!!! you look slim fit but your abs are painted, aren´t they? :P :P :P
jajjajaa
I am very happy for you
Thanks Yagan :D
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Your proportions look great. I doubt if most LL'ers who do femurs look even close to that. You could easily lengthen 1 cm more.
I always find tibia LL better aesthitically because femurs are already taller that tibias and more lengthening would look weird but in your case I don't think that anything looks disproportionate.
And also your body looks great considering that you can't work out, at least completely, because you were lengthening. What did you do to maintain your body? I am asking because I want to maintain as much as I can my body too when I'll do femurs.
The only bad thing for me is that fitbone didn't let you lengthen as much as you wanted.
You are close to your aim of course but I still find it unacceptable to turn much more than you lengthen and at the end not even be able to reach the height you wanted.
So what is the opinion of Dr Monegal about all these?
Because when I'll lengthen again I really want to have the ability to lengthen as much as my body can tolerate and not lengthen less due to other reasons like problems with nail.
Thanks for the encouragement bodybuilder!
I actually do not think you have to lose much muscle mass while lengthening. In fact, I probably look fitter now than before lengthening. The reason being that I have to go to the gym to exercise my legs, which I do every day. And while exercising legs, I also do a little bit of general workout. Also, the fracture is consuming calories, which made me lose fat.
So what did I do? 1.5-2 hours work out every day including stretching, biking, swimming, weights for legs and rest of body.
About Fitbone: it sucks a bit. Just hoping that it will work later today, so I could lengthen a little bit more.
The problem is that Fitbone says the implant lengthens 0,03 mm per click but in fact if there is a lot of bone formation, it lengthens less. So that the 2500+ clicks (110 days at 23 clicks/day) I did in both legs did not translate to 7,5 cm as they should have. Especially recently it seems that each turn of the screw of the Fitbone produces considerably lengthening than what it is supposed to.
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Just succeeded in doing some clicks, but the screw sound like the engine of a vintage car that is going up a steep heel.
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Helloworld you did a good workout.
Did you remember what I told you at the beginning? Fitbone isn't accurate. It fails a lot and it isn't accurate. Old patients in this forum agree. Precise is more precise.
For all people reading standing shouldn't be done with Fitbone. Some patients had problems for doing that. Their nail and screws broke down and they were unfairly blamed. This nail is not weightbearing.
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Helloworld you did a good workout.
Did you remember what I told you at the beginning? Fitbone isn't accurate. It fails a lot and it isn't accurate. Old patients in this forum agree. Precise is more precise.
For all people reading standing shouldn't be done with Fitbone. Some patients had problems for doing that. Their nail and screws broke down and they were unfairly blamed. This nail is not weightbearing.
Notimportant, one thing is what the company and doctor say, the other thing is what is reality, I am sure you agree with this. So I think that Fitbone can withstand much more than what the make of Fitbone advertises, because if they were to advertise they might be liable. For example, when I first met Fitbone reps I was told that Fitbone never has any problems if people put weight on it, I just should avoid jumping. It was only when I had a problem with one of the implants and I ask for directions on what I could do that they said that I should better not put more than 20 kg on each Fitbone, which would have been a big restraint. So instead I asked them if I could not reply on what my doctor told me, Dr. Monegal, and they agreed with that. And Dr. Monegal thinks it is very important that patients stand up very early on and has said that while walking is only with a walking frame, standing is no problem.
That said the screw are slightly bend but at this point my doctor thinks it should not be a problem as by bone formation is good. But of course I will take care not to walk without support.
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About my proportions, my wingspan is still more than my height by 0,5-1cm! :-(
Also, I do not think the goal of LL is to get to the perfect proportions, but is to gain height without looking weird. So when the doctor told me today that he thinks I have perfect proportions, I thought I should probably lengthen more, because the expected result should be that you have gained enough height to make your proportions less than perfect.
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Some people ask me about exercises.
Tomorrow I will take some more pictures but here are the ones from 6 weeks ago:
http://imgur.com/a/zJeTB
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Helloworld,
How long did you spend with a rate os 0,5 mm per day? did you do workout everyday for 1,5 hours? if more confortable to do less clicks per day but you could preconsolidate if your body create bone faster.
White people used to preconsolidate about 7 cm with a rate of 0,8 mm, it depends on age, workout and your own body.
Asian people have a problem of non consolidation in a higer rate.
Reading Penguin "I don't know if it's bad genetics, but during lengthening I was told not to weight bear to avoid preconsolidation, the side effect of that being slow consolidation later on."
Preconsolidation is the the lesser of two evils.
You look really good.
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Yagan,
I lengthened 5.6 cm over almost 4 months.
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Here are the videos of the exercise I promised:
1. biking: https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=_Tq1DrlOf8Q
2. leg exercise: https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=ETP-Q2WPhN4
3. weights:
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=IY74eNHahek
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=wFje0ksAiyQ
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=HWbaxEZc3DA
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=MqBxDika3Lo
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wow the facilities seem nice!
It's refreshing to see someone keep so active while lengthening. Is this the norm with most patients? I had imagine being bed-ridden all the time.
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You are bed ridden for one week.
Then you are wheelchair bound (if you use Fitbone and do two limbs at the same time) but are already able to stand up and exercise just not walk.
Later, as you have good bone formation, you can walk using a walking frame or crutches.
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helloworld, how is your strength/endurance in your legs during this time? The level of your PT is impressive.
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wow the facilities seem nice!
It's refreshing to see someone keep so active while lengthening. Is this the norm with most patients? I had imagine being bed-ridden all the time.
Most patients are bed-ridden or wheelchair-bounded.
Whera re you? These pics are not the guesthouse. Look at other diaries. You can't find those machines in guesthouse only stationary bike and parallel bars as seen in Bhemias videos.
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Most patients are bed-ridden or wheelchair-bounded.
Whera re you? These pics are not the guesthouse. Look at other diaries. You can't find those machines in guesthouse only stationary bike and parallel bars as seen in Bhemias videos.
Notimportant,
Living in the guesthouse, the Mic, is nice, as the gym and pool is part of it and especially as other patients live there. But after 2 months in the Mic I was getting bored. So as soon as I was able to use the walking frame, I started going to my company's office in Barcelona and living in a private appartment. In other words I started leading a "normal" life.
Pictures where taken at the Dir, http://www.dir.cat/en/clubs-dir/dir-gracia which is 40 meters from my office. I go there twice a day for around 40 minutes each.
Not only does it feel like a "normal" life, but it is also cheaper. 1600 euro for Mic vs 600 euro for private apartment plus 65 euro per month for gym.
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helloworld, how is your strength/endurance in your legs during this time? The level of your PT is impressive.
I am quite happy about muscle strenght. Only thing bothering me is that left leg is lagging behind the right.
However, I am not able to run yet, so it is hard to compare to my pre-LL state.
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Today, I measured my thigh circumfrence.
Right: 56 cm
Left: 54 cm
2 months ago:
RIght: 53 cm
Left: 51 cm
Preop: 57 cm
As my femur increased 12% I will need to increase the circumference to 64 cm to stay with the same proportions. However, as even Cristiano CRonnie7 has a thigh circumference of "only" 61 cm, I think I will try to get to 60 cm.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/c8/ae/c5/c8aec5f2da96da0a7fe1207fce44c0d2.jpg
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About my experience with Wittenstein (Fitbone manufacturer) so far:
I am sad, that I am not able to write many positive things so far.
- My Fitbone failed and I got a replacement. ”
- After that happend I met a company rep, who excused himself for the failure and seemed nice. I thus started giving them lots of valuable advice on their sales and marketing as well as building relation to patients (I am a marketer and business consultant).
- However, the company rep did not want to make any statement of how they will compensate me for the additional pain, hospital stay and lost time, but instead said they need to analyze what happened.
- I still have not heard anything about the result of this analysis nor about if and how they company plans to compensate me.
- I wrote the company rep 3 weeks ago about the fact that many patients had their Fitbone lengthen less than 0.03 mm per click and only got the reply that I should talk about my healing process with the doctor!?
- I called several times but the only time I was able to get to the company rep, he said he had no time to talk to me.
- The next time I was able to get through to somebody within Fitbone division, I was told that the person was not aware that a lengthening of less than 0.03 mm was possible and that he does not know of any case, where a preconsolidation had happened.
- On my mail to get urgent advice on how to get my Fitbone to work, I did not get an answer.
- On my mail today asking: 1. “What about the amount of lengthening per click, could that be less than 0.03 mm?” 2. “What about the results of the analysis to determine reason of failure of my Fitbone?” 3. “What to do when Fitbone stops working, due to preconsolidation?” I got the reply again: “We cannot and are not allowed to comment on your healing process, we only make the Fitbone.”
Thus, so far I am not happy with their reaction, but still hope that this is just a miscommunication and that they will soon reply with actual answers, excuse themselves and compensate me. I will keep you updated!
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The Fitbone manufacturer has a bad policy. It's evident why you're not happy with them but you've got them by the balls. You could get lots of money from them and Musicmaker would become a millionaire. If you sue them and the doctor and the fake PT as I've told you you will be rich forever. You've got them by the balls.
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The Fitbone manufacturer has a bad policy. It's evident why you're not happy with them but you've got them by the balls. You could get lots of money from them and Musicmaker would become a millionaire. If you sue them and the doctor and the fake PT as I've told you you will be rich forever. You've got them by the balls.
I do not think I can get lots of money from them. And suing the doctor? He has done an excellent job!
What you are right about is that despite the fact that overall everything worked out nicely for me so far, I did incur costs that were caused by the implant failure. This implant failure was not due to the manufacturer's negligence but just due to bad luck. However, as a product manufacturer, at least according to German law, you are responsibe for product failure even if you are not negligent.
The liability of the manufacturer according to German law encompasses:
1. replacement implant
2. payment of the replacement operation and hospital
3. lost work time of patient
4. non-material damages, iE pain
5. consequential damages due to incomplete recovery
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ONe month after operation i (with the help of Auron) had made these videos, that show you my work out routine at the MIC residence.
Sorry for the bad audio quality.
https://youtu.be/PnZ27RB2Ee4
https://youtu.be/YMEW886Mtno
https://youtu.be/20r0KZppE40
https://youtu.be/7jlabtzodOU
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Those last videos do not work for me bro
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they do work now, sorry ;D
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Perhaps you can't get much money because your Fitbone was replaced in a matter of days and your hospital bills were paid but you can still get money. And what about Musicmaker? She could be a millionaire if she wanted. Her implants failed for no reason and they didn't replace the implants for months! They also wanted to make her pay for external fixator (not American guy) and not new fitbone. Lluser1 explained that according to fellow patients after the fitbone failure in OR she was sent home from hospital in one day because nobody wanted to pay the bills and the poor girl was crying in pain in the guest house for weeks. IMO what they have done with Musicmaker is inhumane. She will suffer physical and emotional sequels for life after so many surgeries and so much work time lost so she could become a millionaire if she sued them all. You both should work together against Fitbone and I would ask you to encourage her to sue too as well as all the people who had problems with the implants and the doctor.
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Hahaha it's nice to see those places of the mics again. I was there to many times and the vídeo remembers me good moments
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You should definitely get a lawyer on that. If what @notimportant says is true about the german law then Fitbone should recompensate you for the implant replacement absolutely. Sueing Dr. Monegal is extreme and dirty but sueing Fitbone should be considered they false advertise with incorrect info stating their product either never fails or give a very,very low percentage failure rate yet there are several diaries here that had nail failure and thats only the nail failures that we know and is documented. Imagine all the people around the world that had Fitbone operated in them and failed. Dirty company. Shame the left leg has to play catch up.
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First I thought only Fitbone was liable but I've learnt that the doctor is also liable for other reasons such as false advertisement about rate of implant failures and complications. There is also the issue of the fake PT. I investigated the name Claudio Favro and he isn't licensed to work as a physiotherapist by Colegie de Fisioterapeutes. In fact he doesn't have any university degree at all. In this case I also thought only this shady guy was liable but Helloworld posted here it was the doctor who recommended him and other patients told me he forced them to hire this unlicensed guy as a PT so he is also liable.
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First I thought only Fitbone was liable but I've learnt that the doctor is also liable for other reasons such as false advertisement about rate of implant failures and complications. There is also the issue of the fake PT. I investigated the name Claudio Favro and he isn't licensed to work as a physiotherapist by Colegie de Fisioterapeutes. In fact he doesn't have any university degree at all. In this case I also thought only this shady guy was liable but Helloworld posted here it was the doctor who recommended him and other patients told me he forced them to hire this unlicensed guy as a PT so he is also liable.
Maybe but the doctor is essentially only at fault on whatever happens in the operation room after that it isn't in his hands apart from supplying the patient on how he is doing,advice,and guidance of course.
If the PT u speak about is truly fake that's potentially endangering for patients that aren't educated about what to do themselves as far as PT goes but in the case of @helloworld since he was knowledgeable in what to do for PT he has no place in attacking this PT Claudio. Are you a ex-patient of Monegal? because u seem passionate about him in particular
But i think for the case of @helloworld he should definitely without a doubt do something about Fitbone neglecting him and not acknowledging his complaints. This can't go silenced.
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I do not want to sue anybody!
I am very happy with my doctor, I was happy with my personal trainer Claudio and I still have to make a final opinion on Fitbone.
Nobody should want to sue, because suing is a lot of headache for everybody and if you are happy there is totally no reason to sue.
But if any of you wanted to sue any person for an unsuccesful LL, then going after the implant mannufacturer would be better. The implant manufacturer is liable no matter if it was negligent or not, while a doctor is only liable for negligence and that has to be proven by the patient.
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Quick update on Fitbone:
1. I finally have been able to talk to the Fitbone company, Wittenstein; not with the representative that I had talked to before, but with the CEO.
2. He was finally able to answer all my questions.
3. About the compensation, which in my case would be low, a couple of thousand USD max., he offered for me to talk to the Wittenstein company lawyer, which is great, as I really want to find an amicable solution outside court.
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Couple of thousand USD? Bad joke!
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Couple of thousand USD? Bad joke!
As a patient I am responsible for all the bad consequences of LL myself.
Only for those consequences that result from a product failure and go beyond what should normally be expected from LL, is the implant manufacturer liable for.
In my case this damage, beyong what I would have without implant failure, seems to be little. In the case of musicmaker it might be a bit more.
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A bit more? Bad joke too. This shady manufacturer should be exposed if they don't compensate adequately all patients with bad implants.
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A bit more? Bad joke too. This shady manufacturer should be exposed if they don't compensate adequately all patients with bad implants.
The Fitbone manufacturer is Wittenstein, a company that has been producing precision engines for over 60 years and has revenue of over 300 million and around 2000 employees.
So I would not call them "shady".
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Fantastic physical therapy helloworld. Are the gym and pool at the facility?
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The Fitbone manufacturer is Wittenstein, a company that has been producing precision engines for over 60 years and has revenue of over 300 million and around 2000 employees.
So I would not call them "shady".
Yes but still fitbone has more problems than it should considering that it comes from a so big company .
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They say it doesn't fail but it fails quite often as in Helloworld and Musicmaker and other people had problems with screws and broken and bent nails
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Sue them. You've got them by the balls.
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No news?
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No news?
There have been some news, I got a respone from Wittenstein. But I want to confirm my opinion first, before talking too much about Fitbone here, and then having to revise it later.
Will let y'all know soon.
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Responses are never good. You and Musicmaker and all people affected should sue.
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It's not your business. Stop spamming.
He can't accept the fact that @helloworld is happy with his outcome ::) why would he sue the doctor if he is fine? he did this to gain height not to gain money.
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He can't accept the fact that @helloworld is happy with his outcome ::) why would he sue the doctor if he is fine? he did this to gain height not to gain money.
You are right.
Outcome is good.
Doctor is treating me very well.
I gained the height I wanted.
Also, when I my Fitbone failed I got a replacement within 24 hours.
The only thing I am complaining about is that the reaction of the company once I asked for my legal right, which is a compensation for the pain, emotional pain and additional recovery time and hospital stay. I did not ask for millions as notimportant suggested but just asked for a price reduction. Instead of wanting to talk to me about it, they stopped communication and then had a lawyer write me that I am no longer allowed to write or call them and threatening with charging me for the replacement.
This is wrong and even Dr. Monegal got angry at them and had to tell them to stop this kind of hostile communication.
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My x-rays from today:
http://imgur.com/a/AJzCo
I think it looks fine.
I was worried that the screws would have bent more since the last x-ray 1 month ago, but fortunately, though they are bent a bit, they are not bent more than last time.
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That doctor is a wellknown liar in this forum. He lies to everybody future and current patients. He tells everybody what they want to hear and says there won't be complications and not true and hides actual complications. Everybody knows he says to you he doesn't agree with Wittenstein and to the company he doesn't agree with you. He's not to be trusted.
Zantact the company should be sued for nail malfunction but imo the doctor is dishonest and this is very bad in a doctor. He didn't inform the patients well. A doctor can't lie to his patients future or current patients.
Helloworld that nail is not weightbearing. Careful bro! Some guys broke their nail for too earlyweightbearing
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My x-rays from today:
http://imgur.com/a/AJzCo
I think it looks fine.
I was worried that the screws would have bent more since the last x-ray 1 month ago, but fortunately, though they are bent a bit, they are not bent more than last time.
Looking good mate! Now, walking unaided is just around the corner, can't wait for my turn as well.
Will be posting my x rays soon too.
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my scars:
http://imgur.com/a/3KAhh
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my scars:
http://imgur.com/a/3KAhh
they are invisible to me. I thought they would be much more noticeable. Is not something that worries me thought.
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they are invisible to me. I thought they would be much more noticeable. Is not something that worries me thought.
I marked them here for you to see better.
On my right leg, where the Fitbone did not fail, and I thus only had one operation, the scars are indeed hard to see.
http://imgur.com/a/iYpTP
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One more reason to ask for a compensation. If you hadn't had new surgeries your scars would be better. Imagine Musicmaker after son many surgeries and she's a girl. Justice for you both!
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Very nice Helloworld.
Your LL experience seems to be one of the smoothest I've ever seen although you have some problems with fitbone.
I'm almost sure that your rehabilitation will be as close to excellent as it gets.
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Thanks for encouragement, bodybuilder and others.
Here is my recovery schedule:
November 3: stay 1 week at hospital
November 4: one week at MIC rehabilitation in wheelchair, help of nurses needed for showering
December 1: Implant failure, 1 week at hospital
December 2: MIC rehabilitation centre in wheelchair, 100% self-sufficient (groceries, shower, toilet, etc.)
December 3: can do exercise at gym, but not for legs
December 4: can do exercise for legs, biking on stationary bike
January 1: can swim in pool
January 2: same
January 3: can use walking frame
January 4: going outside Mic with walking frame
February 1 : same
February 2 : Move to private apartment in Barcelona, and attend private gym, work in my BCN office
February 3 : still on walking frame, more intense workout in gym and pool, working normally at office
February 4 : walking more and recovering muscle strength
March 1: same
March 2: same
March 3: going from walking frame to crutches
March 4: same
April 1: using crutches, able to walk short distances
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One more reason to ask for a compensation. If you hadn't had new surgeries your scars would be better. Imagine Musicmaker after son many surgeries and she's a girl. Justice for you both!
this whole forum should get compensation from you for putting up with your trolling
stop acting like you really care about helloworld, it's disgusting
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this whole forum should get compensation from you for putting up with your trolling
stop acting like you really care about helloworld, it's disgusting
(http://media2.giphy.com/media/dOJt6XZlQw8qQ/giphy.gif)
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He lies to everybody future and current patients.
look who is talking.... notimportant, lluser, truthtell, heightangel..... how many other names have you lied to this forum?
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Are you able to stand Up during lengthening? I thought you had to be in wheelchair.
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Hi helloworld, Can you give me your whatsap number to tell about the operation personaly??. I am very interested in this operation. Thanks
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Hi helloworld, Can you give me your whatsap number to tell about the operation personaly??. I am very interested in this operation. Thanks
I will PM you.
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For your own sake, I would recomend you to pm him your whatssup. You could be harassed
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For your own sake, I would recomend you to pm him your whatssup. You could be harassed
Thanks for the advice.
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QUick update:
I am doing very well.
Last week I was visiting Africa for 1 week, and I almost did not do any stretching or exercising. But still I improved, as before that week I was still walking with crutches sometimes or walking like a Penguin but after that week I walked pretty normally, and got a lot of comments from people that they are happy for me that I am well again.
I have reduced my exercise and stretching routine from 2 hours while at Mic, to 1.5 hours when I started at gym, to now 45 min per day.
But I still see improvements:
I am also able to dance without a problem.
I can go up and down the stairs at a fast pace.
I can do most exercises for my leg at the maximum weight (80 -145 kg) and do 100 repetition.
I can do 200 squads in a row.
I can bent my knees close to 180 degrees.
Only problem is my left quadriceps. My quadriceps were able to lift 20 kg when I started with the gym 2.5 months ago. Now, my right one is at 50 kg and my left is still at 25 kg.
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Since you asked for videos, here are some:
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=PPdgHfgYp38
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=hyMEZp2JaA8
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=U4LSwKccVtI
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x-rays from last week:
http://imgur.com/a/T1KUg
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First attempt at running fast.
I am not yet as fast as before the LL surgery but I am not sure what is wrong with my running style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y_UHckocp0&feature=em-share_video_user
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your strides are short. I think you're not used to your longer legs. ;D
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The reasons for this slow and a little strange running are the weakness of your quadriceps due to LL which will get better after some time and the change in the biomechanics of the foot which will not get much better.
The change in the biomechanic of the foot, even if you do tibias or femurs or both, is big and the body can't adapt because the proportions of the foot are permanently changed and that means less capability in all the functions and stability.
And of course the more you lengthen the worse it is. If you have lengthened 8cm you would have been even more slow.
Of course you'll run faster in some months but never as fast and normal as before LL.
But you look better and that should matter more than be as fast or steady etc as before LL for anyone that really want this surgery.
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your strides are short. I think you're not used to your longer legs. ;D
I think you are right, my strides are short, I will pay attention to make them longer.
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The reasons for this slow and a little strange running are the weakness of your quadriceps due to LL which will get better after some time and the change in the biomechanics of the foot which will not get much better.
The change in the biomechanic of the foot, even if you do tibias or femurs or both, is big and the body can't adapt because the proportions of the foot are permanently changed and that means less capability in all the functions and stability.
And of course the more you lengthen the worse it is. If you have lengthened 8cm you would have been even more slow.
Of course you'll run faster in some months but never as fast and normal as before LL.
But you look better and that should matter more than be as fast or steady etc as before LL for anyone that really want this surgery.
Are you sure that patients post LL run slower? Dr. Monegal said I could run a little faster eventually as I have longer legs.
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But when you decide to do LL, specially with long term devices such as external frames... You'll just be glad you are able to walk again, then running is a dream.
Congratulations Helloworld you are now officially a successful limb lengthening patient! Keep improving yourself not only in your height but in every aspect of you.
You think so Body Builder? I think LL of course damages your body and reduces functional reserve of muscle strength. But imagine there are a lot of untrained guys who have done LL. If they train a lot they could improve themselves to the point of being the same or better than before LL. I don't know if I'm explaining myself well.
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I think Helloworld if you were a Olympic runner at the top of your potential, you would never be as good. But if you are an average person there is still a lot you could improve by training to the point of maybe even becoming better than before LL.
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So what is your final height? How much did you lengthen in the end?
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Did Wittenstein pay a compensation to you?
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Did Wittenstein pay a compensation to you?
Nothing yet. Still discussing. They examined the Fitbone that was replaced and apparantly everything was working.
I had a nice conversation with them 2 weeks ago.
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I think Helloworld if you were a Olympic runner at the top of your potential, you would never be as good. But if you are an average person there is still a lot you could improve by training to the point of maybe even becoming better than before LL.
Let's see.
We are at similar stage, so will be interesting how fast we can get to "normal".
What are the experiences of the LL veterans, besides Body Builider? Anybody else who is running fast or not so fast?
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How much did you end up lengthening?
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5 cm.
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do you feel significantly taller?
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no, not significantly.
Afterall it is only 2.5%.
5 cm on my penis would be a more significant.
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jajjajajjjaj
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so was it all worth it?
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Are you sure that patients post LL run slower? Dr. Monegal said I could run a little faster eventually as I have longer legs.
This is nonsense and I wonder how a doctor could say such a thing.
By lengthening only one segment mean that the biomechanics of the foot are completely out.
Even a 2 segment lengthening to keep the proportions of the foot the same would make the running slower and more unstable because the stretching of soft tissues change their abilities and they are not as capabke as before lengthening.
So I am completely sure and all patients and doctors know that noone can be as capable as before LL. If you find someone who says that he runs faster, walk for more distances, is more stable etc after LL, then he is a liar. But I've never seen anyone to say that.
Some patient reach close to 90% while others maybe less than 70% (I am not talking for extreme lengthenings or major complications).
Anything more than 80% is a very good outcome.
But be faster than before is a joke.
I wonder how Monegal said something like that.
@LL south america: if someone is completely untrained before LL and work out a lot after LL maybe he will reach the 90% of pre LL condition.
But you compare someone who doesn't train before LL with someone (even the same person) who train a lot after LL. This is a nonsense comparison because we talk about the body's capabilities before and after LL which are worse after. So if you worked out the same before and after LL, before you would have been from 10 to 30% better.
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This is nonsense and I wonder how a doctor could say such a thing.
Even larger femurs with even shorter mean that the biomechanics of the foot are comoletely out.
Even a 2 segment lengthening to keep the proportions of the foot the same would make the running slower and more unstable because the stretching of soft tissues change their abilities and they are not as capabke as before lengthening.
So I am completely sure and all patients and doctors know that noone can be as capable as before LL.
Some patient reach close to 90% while others maybe less than 70% (I am not talking for extreme lengthenings or major complications).
Anything more than 80% is a very good outcome.
But be faster than before is a joke.
I wonder how Monegal said something like that.
Maybe he wanted to say that more length more distance, the longer the limb more distance in less time, but you are right he didnt think in the damage to the tissues.
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This is nonsense and I wonder how a doctor could say such a thing.
By lengthening only one segment mean that the biomechanics of the foot are completely out.
Even a 2 segment lengthening to keep the proportions of the foot the same would make the running slower and more unstable because the stretching of soft tissues change their abilities and they are not as capabke as before lengthening.
So I am completely sure and all patients and doctors know that noone can be as capable as before LL. If you find someone who says that he runs faster, walk for more distances, is more stable etc after LL, then he is a liar. But I've never seen anyone to say that.
Some patient reach close to 90% while others maybe less than 70% (I am not talking for extreme lengthenings or major complications).
Anything more than 80% is a very good outcome.
But be faster than before is a joke.
I wonder how Monegal said something like that.
@LL south america: if someone is completely untrained before LL and work out a lot after LL maybe he will reach the 90% of pre LL condition.
But you compare someone who doesn't train before LL with someone (even the same person) who train a lot after LL. This is a nonsense comparison because we talk about the body's capabilities before and after LL which are worse after. So if you worked out the same before and after LL, before you would have been from 10 to 30% better.
He said it would take time, but lengthening should not have any negative impact. I think the faster was said jokingly.
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Maybe he wanted to say that more length more distance, the longer the limb more distance in less time, but you are right he didnt think in the damage to the tissues.
This is a very simplistic approach. If it was right then runners would break their bones to have longer limbs to be even faster
But this is completely wrong.
Tha change in biomechanics and the soft tissue damage are more than enough to never be like before.
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This is nonsense and I wonder how a doctor could say such a thing.
By lengthening only one segment mean that the biomechanics of the foot are completely out.
Even a 2 segment lengthening to keep the proportions of the foot the same would make the running slower and more unstable because the stretching of soft tissues change their abilities and they are not as capabke as before lengthening.
So I am completely sure and all patients and doctors know that noone can be as capable as before LL. If you find someone who says that he runs faster, walk for more distances, is more stable etc after LL, then he is a liar. But I've never seen anyone to say that.
Some patient reach close to 90% while others maybe less than 70% (I am not talking for extreme lengthenings or major complications).
Anything more than 80% is a very good outcome.
But be faster than before is a joke.
I wonder how Monegal said something like that.
@LL south america: if someone is completely untrained before LL and work out a lot after LL maybe he will reach the 90% of pre LL condition.
But you compare someone who doesn't train before LL with someone (even the same person) who train a lot after LL. This is a nonsense comparison because we talk about the body's capabilities before and after LL which are worse after. So if you worked out the same before and after LL, before you would have been from 10 to 30% better.
You are giving me the motivation to try to reach 100% :-)
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This is nonsense and I wonder how a doctor could say such a thing.
By lengthening only one segment mean that the biomechanics of the foot are completely out.
Even a 2 segment lengthening to keep the proportions of the foot the same would make the running slower and more unstable because the stretching of soft tissues change their abilities and they are not as capabke as before lengthening.
So I am completely sure and all patients and doctors know that noone can be as capable as before LL. If you find someone who says that he runs faster, walk for more distances, is more stable etc after LL, then he is a liar. But I've never seen anyone to say that.
Some patient reach close to 90% while others maybe less than 70% (I am not talking for extreme lengthenings or major complications).
Anything more than 80% is a very good outcome.
But be faster than before is a joke.
I wonder how Monegal said something like that.
@LL south america: if someone is completely untrained before LL and work out a lot after LL maybe he will reach the 90% of pre LL condition.
But you compare someone who doesn't train before LL with someone (even the same person) who train a lot after LL. This is a nonsense comparison because we talk about the body's capabilities before and after LL which are worse after. So if you worked out the same before and after LL, before you would have been from 10 to 30% better.
You think he will reach the 90 % of pre LL condition but it's possible to reach even 100%. Of course your THEORETICAL body capabilities are worse after LL. But for your own functionality, if you work hard you could achieve at least what you have before. Imagine my body could run 100 m in 11 s (this is the ideal top for my body in my top condition), but I run 100 m in 12 s (before LL, because I was untrained). If I trained a lot after LL perhaps my ideal mark for my body is no longer 11 s but 11.5 s. After LL I trained for years and my mark is 11.7 seconds.
What are the results... I'm faster than my pre LL state even if the damage of my body is permanent and I lost some potential. I mean it could be possible. But as helloworld I will try to prove you wrong :)
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You think he will reach the 90 % of pre LL condition but it's possible to reach even 100%. Of course your THEORETICAL body capabilities are worse after LL. But for your own functionality, if you work hard you could achieve at least what you have before. Imagine my body could run 100 m in 11 s (this is the ideal top for my body in my top condition), but I run 100 m in 12 s (before LL, because I was untrained). If I trained a lot after LL perhaps my ideal mark for my body is no longer 11 s but 11.5 s. After LL I trained for years and my mark is 11.7 seconds.
What are the results... I'm faster than my pre LL state even if the damage of my body is permanent and I lost some potential. I mean it could be possible. But as helloworld I will try to prove you wrong :)
Actually, we all agree that:
-it is possible to get close to state before LL, maybe 80%, maybe 99%
-it is a process that takes time, so we cannot expect to stop lengthening and start already at prior state
-the more you lengthen, the worse is recovery
LLSouthAmerica, let's recover 100% ! :-)
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You think he will reach the 90 % of pre LL condition but it's possible to reach even 100%. Of course your THEORETICAL body capabilities are worse after LL. But for your own functionality, if you work hard you could achieve at least what you have before. Imagine my body could run 100 m in 11 s (this is the ideal top for my body in my top condition), but I run 100 m in 12 s (before LL, because I was untrained). If I trained a lot after LL perhaps my ideal mark for my body is no longer 11 s but 11.5 s. After LL I trained for years and my mark is 11.7 seconds.
What are the results... I'm faster than my pre LL state even if the damage of my body is permanent and I lost some potential. I mean it could be possible. But as helloworld I will try to prove you wrong :)
If we talked about 0.5 seconds yes, you would have been right.
But if you ran at 11s before LL, after LL you would be close to 16s if everything went well.
So even if you try hard to make 16s something like 14s, still you won't be close to 11s that your body could do before LL.
90% rehabilitation has to do with your overall condition. The difference in times would be much higher than just a 10%.
Anyway, I really don't think a person who is not a professional athlete should care so much for all these.
If he does, then he should not do LL.
Every sensible LL'er should be ok with a normal walking, no pains, the ability to run relatively fast and some good balance.
If he had all these, things important for a normal life, plus a better height and all the benefits from it, he should be really happy.
Even if you run 30-40% slower I can't understand why is it a big deal.
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If we talked about 0.5 seconds yes, you would have been right.
But if you ran at 11s before LL, after LL you would be close to 16s if everything went well.
So even if you try hard to make 16s something like 14s, still you won't be close to 11s that your body could do before LL.
90% rehabilitation has to do with your overall condition. The difference in times would be much higher than just a 10%.
Anyway, I really don't think a person who is not a professional athlete should care so much for all these.
If he does, then he should not do LL.
Every sensible LL'er should be ok with a normal walking, no pains, the ability to run relatively fast and some good balance.
If he had all these, things important for a normal life, plus a better height and all the benefits from it, he should be really happy.
Even if you run 30-40% slower I can't understand why is it a big deal.
Thanks for you input!
These where my times before LL:
100 m 13.8 sec
400 m 59 sec
1 km 2:58
1.5 km 4:52
4 km 14:58
All measured 1.5 years ago, after trying hard for several month to crack the 1 minute, 3 minute, 5 minute and 15 minute respective barriers.
I hope to not have lost as much as you say, BodyBuilder, so I will measure my performance over the next year and let you know.
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I got this question:
Can I do fitbone on tibia ?
If I can what's the maximum I can do ?
Yes, fitbone on tibia is possible.
Maximum for fitbone is 8cm but I think amounts lengthened for tibia are generally less than for femur.
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Helloworld, your videos are very much inspiring; considering the length of time since your procedure, I am extremely encouraged. With your level of determination, I'm confident you will reach your pre-LL running times. It's amazing what one can accomplish with determination.
That is the thing with Dr. Monegal, it's sometimes hard to tell if he is joking or serious; he has sort of a dry since of humor. ( as do I). If he were to ask me to offer him any constructive criticism, it would be to try to speak with absolute precision when conversing with his patients. With that being said, I am very happy that I selected Dr. Monegal; he has a great personality and I truly believe I am in both skilled and caring hands.
Good Luck!
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Helloworld, your videos are very much inspiring; considering the length of time since your procedure, I am extremely encouraged. With your level of determination, I'm confident you will reach your pre-LL running times. It's amazing what one can accomplish with determination.
That is the thing with Dr. Monegal, it's sometimes hard to tell if he is joking or serious; he has sort of a dry since of humor. ( as do I). If he were to ask me to offer him any constructive criticism, it would be to try to speak with absolute precision when conversing with his patients. With that being said, I am very happy that I selected Dr. Monegal; he has a great personality and I truly believe I am in both skilled and caring hands.
Good Luck!
I think every LL patient has a lot of determination.
But in fact I would say determination was important in the first 3 month, while I was at Mic. There I was focusing on LL and recovery. But for the last 3 months, I have been following my normal routine: going to the office every day, exercising at least once a day, eating healthy and sleeping well. So apart from posting on this forum and taking x-rays, I have not really done anything different as compared to before LL and thus needed no determination.
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75 jumps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ZRTH96zU4&feature=youtu.be
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Helloworld how much time you have since you stopped lengthening?
I don't think is too much for doing all these jumps which I think they are very risky for your bone and the nail at this time.
I don't know if you have the ok from Monegal for these exercises but I think it is very soon for that. Please be careful.
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Thanks for your concern!
It has already been 6 weeks since I stopped lengthening, 7 week for my right leg.
Dr. Monegal saw my x-rays and said that running and jumping is no problem, as bone is very solid.
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Solid bone just 6 weeks after lengthening?
I know that Betz whose nails are stronger than fitbone doesn't let jumping for months after lengthening and it is strange for me that you jump so much only after 6 weeks you stopped lengthening.
I am curious to see your last x ray.
But you look very good for so little time after lengthening.
Keep strong!
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You can't compare the bone consolidation while using fitbone and while using betz nails. Helloword has reached a point where the strenght of the nail no longer matters.
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Hello world how long did it take you to reach 5 cm? It's not only the time after stopping lengthening that matters but from the day of the surgery.
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Hello world how long did it take you to reach 5 cm? It's not only the time after stopping lengthening that matters but from the day of the surgery.
Very good point! Bone consolidation good because I lengthened 5 cm over 5 months, meaning only 1 cm per month.
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Someone asked for pictures of scars; here they are:
http://imgur.com/a/SrSAT
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Yeah about 6 months is more than enough time for the femur to consolidate if you are young and male! Just take it easy and work your way up progressively! I'm really curious about the MIC, next time I'm in Spain I'll visit. Congratulations Helloworld, how tall are you now?
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Southamerica wants to meet Musicmaker
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By now she must definitely be taller than me haha but who doesn't love Spanish girls? They've got a cute accent ;D
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75 jumps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ZRTH96zU4&feature=youtu.be
Awesome video. it is the result of three hours of training every day.
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Awesome video. it is the result of three hours of training every day.
Did I tell you 3 hours? I think I might have thought 30 minutes to 1 hour. But in fact I train around 5 hours per week, so 45 minutes per day.
While in MIC I trained (stretching, swimming, cycling, weights) for 2 hours a day!
But now just I am justr trying to have the same activity level as before LL.
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Yesterday I met my sister and 2 nephews.
Problem was that my nephews wanted to play soccers and then go swimming in the Meditarrenean.
I was afraid anybody would notice by my playing style and nked legs that I had done something to my legs, especially as my sister had adviced me to never do limb lengthening. But fortunately, except for my sister saying "You look somehow different, I think you look taller." nobody noticed anything.
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Yesterday I met my sister and 2 nephews.
Problem was that my nephews wanted to play soccers and then go swimming in the Meditarrenean.
I was afraid anybody would notice by my playing style and nked legs that I had done something to my legs, especially as my sister had adviced me to never do limb lengthening. But fortunately, except for my sister saying "You look somehow different, I think you look taller." nobody noticed anything.
Please do not play the soccer.My warning is you must wait till post-removal rod for 1 or 2 year.
If some thing bad happen , you would get sorry
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What is the issue with playing football if you are already fully consolidated? The bone should be as strong as before the fracture.
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What is the issue with playing football if you are already fully consolidated? The bone should be as strong as before the fracture.
Stretched soft tissue
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What do you mean? tendon ruptures? muscle contractures? I know most LL doctors allow sports when the bone is fully consolidated, not 1-2 years post nail removal
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What do you mean? tendon ruptures? muscle contractures? I know most LL doctors allow sports when the bone is fully consolidated, not 1-2 years post nail removal
I also would like to know more about this!
Is it that the bone could hurt or is it that soft tissue might get damaged? And how?
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I think the concern is if you get a broken bone for whatever reason, the rod will also break and will be very difficult to remove. Personally, I have refrained from sports until the fall, when I'll be getting the rods removed.
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That's true, though I've never broken a bone in 23 years even though I've done all kind of sports. For me as soon as the bone is fully fused I'll start running and doing light sports. Nothing too crazy of course.
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I am doing as LLSouthAmerica, sports yes, getting myself into unnecessary danger, no.
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You shouldn't play sports at this stage. If your doctor approves this I would say Lluser is right about him being reckless and dangerous for patients.
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Every doctor allows sports as soon as complete bone fusion is achieved. I don't know where those comments are coming from. Suddenly everyone is a LL doctor at this forum.
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But bone fushion is achieved after more than one year. Running that soon sounds stupid to me. You risk a lot.
If you break your lengthened bones don't come here crying.
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You are crazy and inventing facts. Paley, Guichet and most LL doctors calculate an average time of 6 months to go back to sports. If you learn something about medicine, you will know that for most people bone consolidation after femur fracture occurs in 4-6 months and tibia 7-9 months.
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Every doctor allows sports as soon as complete bone fusion is achieved. I don't know where those comments are coming from. Suddenly everyone is a LL doctor at this forum.
Totally agree!
Whimsical is right in that the costs of injury to the legs are much higher now that we have implants, and that therefore we have to take extra caution.
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Update:
Just was out dancing and can say that I could so all moves I did before without a problem.
I am now able to run stair up, and almost "run" stairs down.
I can touch the floor with straight legs.
I can lift more than a quarter ton with my legs (standing position)
Left quadriceps is still the only problem: Last month I lifted 25 kg with the left and 50 kg with the right. Now I lift 75 kg with the right, but still only 50 kg (still 25 kg less) with the left leg (sitting position).
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Update:
Just was out dancing and can say that I could so all moves I did before without a problem.
I am now able to run stair up, and almost "run" stairs down.
I can touch the floor with straight legs.
I can lift more than a quarter ton with my legs (standing position)
Left quadriceps is still the only problem: Last month I lifted 25 kg with the left and 50 kg with the right. Now I lift 75 kg with the right, but still only 50 kg (still 25 kg less) with the left leg (sitting position).
You want to tell me you are doing 250kg squat?
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Not completly bend knees though, and only 200 kg in external weight, the other 85 kg is my body weight.
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Your post lengthening is stronger than my pre lengthening 😂😂
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85kg bodyweight at your height, I have a hard time believing you have a 200kg squat.
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Your post lengthening is stronger than my pre lengthening 😂😂
Same for me! But I also did not go to gym for 5 hours per week before LL.
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85kg bodyweight at your height, I have a hard time believing you have a 200kg squat.
Today I will make video.
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Today I will make video.
Can't wait to see it
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Here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch4K6tEf16Q&list=PLKwOvQk23H55pppjgXb5kUafJ-eDikQPq&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAzlWQLoSes&list=PLKwOvQk23H55pppjgXb5kUafJ-eDikQPq&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNiAy1HBJmE&list=PLKwOvQk23H55pppjgXb5kUafJ-eDikQPq&index=3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbYuBoIOBUs&list=PLKwOvQk23H55pppjgXb5kUafJ-eDikQPq&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3YzBu1HgM0&index=5&list=PLKwOvQk23H55pppjgXb5kUafJ-eDikQPq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQKJNMjs0Ss&index=6&list=PLKwOvQk23H55pppjgXb5kUafJ-eDikQPq
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1) It's not a squat. It's an exercise for the lower leg and not upper leg.
2) Those are lbs not kgs.
Still, good recovery congrats
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You think these are lbs not kg?
Are you saying that all machines are in lbs rather than kg?
I had asked and was told by gym that all machines you see in video are kg. In fact, I asked the trainer to talk to his boss and he made fun of us, saying that we are in Spain, where we use metric system, so of course they would be in kg.
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These are kg. But its not a squat. Is a Leg press machine. 200kg squat is a lot, competition level.
By the other way. Dont you think that maybe you are pushing things to hard doing that now?
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I agree with Krp1. You are doing too much. What if you break your legs? What does your doctor think? If the nail breaks they will blame you.
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Thanks KrP1 and Datum for your concern. I will take your concern to heart and ask the doctor on Monday, if he thinks I am stressing my bones too much.
Also, I plan to take another x-ray at the end of the month to see if I still need to be carefull in putting weight on the bone.
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Yes please check. That's too much. Be strong and don't let those people put you down.
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Yes please check. That's too much. Be strong and don't let those people put you down.
Thanks for encouragement.
Though I did not get the feeling anybody in this forum was putting me down. Only encouragement. :-)
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Today I measured my femur circumfrence at 60 cm!
http://imgur.com/a/XIQ5C
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I just ran 1 km at the track at Paddington Recreation ground, London, and quite disappointed with my time, 4:29, which is around 40% more than what I was able to do before LL.
Of course it is the first time that I run track measuring time, so I hope to improve continously over the coming month.
I do not think as to do with muscle mass as my femur muscles seem almost 100% rebuilt. Rather I think it is because I have to do every step consciously and my running does not flow as it used to.
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Thanks for encouragement.
Though I did not get the feeling anybody in this forum was putting me down. Only encouragement. :-)
Not people in the forum, the Wittenstein people who want to blame you and I'm sure if you break your leg after running your doctor will also blame you so be careful.
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I just ran 1 km at the track at Paddington Recreation ground, London, and quite disappointed with my time, 4:29, which is around 40% more than what I was able to do before LL.
Of course it is the first time that I run track measuring time, so I hope to improve continously over the coming month.
I do not think as to do with muscle mass as my femur muscles seem almost 100% rebuilt. Rather I think it is because I have to do every step consciously and my running does not flow as it used to.
This is the change in biomechanics after lengthening that I always talked about. And that's why I said that Monegal's words that after lengthening you'll run faster due to longer legs were completely false, even if it was a joke.
Of course you could hit a better time some months later but you'll never be as fast as before LL and that's for sure even if you have much stronger muscles than pre LL .
The biomechanical change is crucial in running and makes a big difference. And you lengthened a very safe amount. People who lengthened 8 cm or more would be in a much worse situation.
But imo it doesn't really matters. As soon as you can walk normal and run relatively fast you are ok. If someone wants something more then LL is not for him.
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The doctor said he would run faster because he's a salesman. Nobody can really think you will be faster after massive surgery.
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This is the change in biomechanics after lengthening that I always talked about. And that's why I said that Monegal's words that after lengthening you'll run faster due to longer legs were completely false, even if it was a joke.
Of course you could hit a better time some months later but you'll never be as fast as before LL and that's for sure even if you have much stronger muscles than pre LL .
The biomechanical change is crucial in running and makes a big difference. And you lengthened a very safe amount. People who lengthened 8 cm or more would be in a much worse situation.
But imo it doesn't really matters. As soon as you can walk normal and run relatively fast you are ok. If someone wants something more then LL is not for him.
I did improve considerably today by doing the following:
1. taking my shoes off and running barefooted
2. raising my knees as much as possible
3. not being afraid to push my feet firmly to the ground
You are probably right about the change in biomechanics. Additionally, it seems to me that a big reason is that my muscles are still stretched and not loose and it thus takes a little more effort to do each step.
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The doctor said he would run faster because he's a salesman. Nobody can really think you will be faster after massive surgery.
How come you think Dr. Monegal is a good salesman?
Dr. Monegal is certainly not a greedy businessman, as he could certainly charge much more for the surgery and months of accompaniying the patient. (I think he only gets like 8,000 euro after subtracting all the costs for hospital, team, and Fitbone)
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I did improve considerably today by doing the following:
1. taking my shoes off and running barefooted
2. raising my knees as much as possible
3. not being afraid to push my feet firmly to the ground
You are probably right about the change in biomechanics. Additionally, it seems to me that a big reason is that my muscles are still stretched and not loose and it thus takes a little more effort to do each step.
Helloworld, while you still have both nails (I think ?). I'd like to make you some recommendations. Now this is only theoretical but... do not run barefooted in a hard surface this can cause a stress fracture because as you said your muscles are still stretched and this means they are not able to withstand impact as well as in normal people. This is turn means that all the force would go to the bone itself. This is specially a concern after you remove the nail.
The human body is not made to run in hard surfaces, that's why many runners have knee problems in the long term. Having a proper shoe that absorbs impact is fundamental. Now this is only theoretical but a real deal for professional runners. Take care.
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In Spain everything is cheap, medicine and everything, but it doesn't mean he isn't a salesman because he hides his bad cases and lies compulsively about patient count, fitbone failures and recovery expectations. Shady salesman! He also avoids taxes and should be reported to the Spanish authorities together with all his team.
You shouldn't defend him as one user here told me he stabs you in the back and also stabs Musicmaker. He sold your asses to the German company and doesn't care about your pain and trauma. If I were you I would get a good lawyer.
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Today I measured my femur circumfrence at 60 cm!
http://imgur.com/a/XIQ5C
Sorry if you said that already but what was your initial height and final?
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Helloworld, while you still have both nails (I think ?). I'd like to make you some recommendations. Now this is only theoretical but... do not run barefooted in a hard surface this can cause a stress fracture because as you said your muscles are still stretched and this means they are not able to withstand impact as well as in normal people. This is turn means that all the force would go to the bone itself. This is specially a concern after you remove the nail.
The human body is not made to run in hard surfaces, that's why many runners have knee problems in the long term. Having a proper shoe that absorbs impact is fundamental. Now this is only theoretical but a real deal for professional runners. Take care.
Thanks so much for your concern and advice!
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In Spain everything is cheap, medicine and everything, but it doesn't mean he isn't a salesman because he hides his bad cases and lies compulsively about patient count, fitbone failures and recovery expectations. Shady salesman! He also avoids taxes and should be reported to the Spanish authorities together with all his team.
You shouldn't defend him as one user here told me he stabs you in the back and also stabs Musicmaker. He sold your asses to the German company and doesn't care about your pain and trauma. If I were you I would get a good lawyer.
You have a strong opinion! Have you ever met the doctor?
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Sorry if you said that already but what was your initial height and final?
1,81 -> 1,86
wingspan 1,85
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You have a strong opinion! Have you ever met the doctor?
LOL. He is LLuser1 using his 23498789234982th account, bruh. Juts ignore him.
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1,81 -> 1,86
wingspan 1,85
damn, you greedy bastard ;D
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damn, you greedy bastard ;D
LOL, I agree haha
You were good before and you are good now. Please don't think about another surgery. I don't know why but 99% of lengtheners I know want another, it's addictive somehow.
I would love to be your height now and even your height before. Don't risk more.
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1,81 -> 1,86
wingspan 1,85
Dude you are such a liar, told us you were 5;9 thats 176
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Dude you are such a liar, told us you were 5;9 thats 176
Eveyone lies in Spain. Don't you know that? ;D
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He didnt write he was 5 9", he said he was above 5 9"
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1) It's not a squat. It's an exercise for the lower leg and not upper leg.
2) Those are lbs not kgs.
Still, good recovery congrats
TIBIKE200, I've seen you around for several years now.
I agree most people in the forum aren't the brightest, but how come you always need to be the expert on everything? Even though you're wrong half the time.
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LOL, I agree haha
You were good before and you are good now. Please don't think about another surgery. I don't know why but 99% of lengtheners I know want another, it's addictive somehow.
I would love to be your height now and even your height before. Don't risk more.
Of course!
I know that I would probably feel upset if a more than average guys like me is doing a surgery to be even taller.
The things is that I am still shorter than my dad, and still a lot shorter than my brothers and was in the past called the "short" one.
Just to justify why I went ahead.
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He didnt write he was 5 9", he said he was above 5 9"
Thanks for defending me.
I might not have said my height, but I definetly did not lie about it.
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Why did the user Esmeralda1256 post to insult Helloworld without reason? It's his only post.
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I sense a LLuser conspiracy theory coming...
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LLuser conspiracy? What has LLuser to do with this? I defended Helloworld from insults by one user who has only one post here and said it was weird.
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Dude you are such a liar, told us you were 5;9 thats 176
I was talking about Esmeralda, I expected her to say this was somehow a fake diary and I suspected a resurrected Lluser. Why did you feel it was directed at you Datum?
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I write down in the incorrect post :)
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@Tibike
500 LB leg press, machines has kg and pound equivalent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwm6nDvQ2g&feature=youtu.be
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FggTU6MFiXA&feature=youtu.be
https://youtu.be/yE0buxJJDAI
https://youtu.be/0iFz5YTuJPM
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Latest x-rays:
http://imgur.com/a/PZ5px
It seems like good consolidation.
Only a bit worried about the size of the bone, seems a bit too big. (5.6 cm in diameter)
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Wow. I don't know if this good or bad. Why don't you ask your doctor?
I guess all the weight training boosted bone growth?
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Dr. Monegal says I can be very happy.
Training: I actually train very little, only around 30 minutes per day. I think this is far less than average, right?
I hear most people train like 1-2 hours per day, right?
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Doing some jumps in Regent's Park, London:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndsfgCuRm1w&feature=youtu.be
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good recovery but you just made 5cm
but I'm happy for you, enjoy
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Is it normal that the bone becomes so thick, and non-uniform after consolidation? It takes away space for the muscles, and the skin, doesn't it?
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Is it normal that the bone becomes so thick, and non-uniform after consolidation? It takes away space for the muscles, and the skin, doesn't it?
Yes this is normal even in non LL bone breaks. The body forms a callus to protect itself from future breaks.
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Doing some jumps in Regent's Park, London:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndsfgCuRm1w&feature=youtu.be
Is that how you jumped before LL? The form looks kind of funny. Did you change the way you jump to accommidate for comfort or new biomechanics?
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Don't do that Helloworld you could break the nail and they would throw all the on you as it happened with other patients
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I do not think that it is normal but common that bone become thicker at the fracture site.
I was worried as well, but Dr. Monegal said it is not a problem.
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Is that how you jumped before LL? The form looks kind of funny. Did you change the way you jump to accommidate for comfort or new biomechanics?
Jumping feels normal. But I do not know.
That is why I would recommend to all future LL patients to take videos of their legs, their running and their jumping, so that they have something to compare it to afterwards.
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Don't do that Helloworld you could break the nail and they would throw all the crap on you as it happened with other patients
Dr. Monegal has told me that I can do anything.
I think my bone is much stronger than before LL.
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Timeline of my recovery
- 1 December: start lengthening
15 December: wheelchair but 100% self-sufficient (groceries, shower, toilet, etc.)
20 December: start go to gym every day (still no legs)
1 January: use stationary bike
10 January: swimm in pool
20 January: use walking frame to walk
10 February: go back to work in my Barcelona office
15 February: live in private apartment and go to private gym
20 March: start using crutches
10 April: stop lengthening
20 April: vacation in Tunisia, use no more crutches
1 May: use bike for daily commuting
15 May: starting to run slowly
25 May: play soccer, and walk normally, so my family does not notice the difference
June-July: everything almost 100% normal, but still working on running to get back to same speed
Time spend on exercise and stretching for quicker recovery
- Pre LL: 25 minutes per day
December-February: 2.5 hours
February: 2 hours
March: 1.5 hours
April: 1.3 hours
May: 1 hour
June: 45 minutes
July: 35 minutes
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Good job man!I wanna try 6 cm femurs with fitbone,hopefully recovery will be same as yours
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Timeline of my recovery
- 1 December: start lengthening
15 December: wheelchair but 100% self-sufficient (groceries, shower, toilet, etc.)
20 December: start go to gym every day (still no legs)
1 January: use stationary bike
10 January: swimm in pool
20 January: use walking frame to walk
10 February: go back to work in my Barcelona office
15 February: live in private apartment and go to private gym
20 March: start using crutches
10 April: stop lengthening
20 April: vacation in Tunisia, use no more crutches
1 May: use bike for daily commuting
15 May: starting to run slowly
25 May: play soccer, and walk normally, so my family does not notice the difference
June-July: everything almost 100% normal, but still working on running to get back to same speed
Time spend on exercise and stretching for quicker recovery
- Pre LL: 25 minutes per day
December-February: 2.5 hours
February: 2 hours
March: 1.5 hours
April: 1.3 hours
May: 1 hour
June: 45 minutes
July: 35 minutes
You probably have one of the most successful stories regardless of doctor or method. Seems like you were extremely lucky!
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You probably have one of the most successful stories regardless of doctor or method. Seems like you were extremely lucky!
Thanks!
But actually I have met many patients here in Spain in all seem to follow a very similar recovery. Some maybe slightly slower, some slightly faster. Nobody is complaining about any more discomfort than I, but nobody seemed to have less discomfort than I. Everybody is getting to close to 100%, but I yet have to find one person who is able to run as fast after LL as before LL.
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I was in London for over 6 weeks.
That meant I could not follow my daily routine of going to the gym, and average exercise decrease from like 35 minutes to like 15.
But when I came back to the gym this week I found that my legs where actually stronger than before I left!
So it seems that time is more important than exercise for recovery.
Or it might be that 2 * 6 minutes of high intensity work out in nature is better than 35 minutes in the gym.
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One more video: I did 20 jumps but my friend did not record correctly so I just did a few more for the video.
This is routine try to use every day to increase my jumping power. (btw you see 50 cm but it is actually 75 cm vertically)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f02NQxjysgQ&feature=youtu.be
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What % of your athletic ability have you gotten back? Were you athletic before?
Right now it looks like that is about 50% of my athletic ability.
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In terms of weight I would say 120%. But I did not go to the gym before LL.
In terms of speed I would say 80%.
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Where can i find the success rate of Dr. Monegal?
And what do you think is a reasonable timeframe from surgery to walking semi-normal if i would do the same operation (5,5cm).
The risks scares the s... out of me, ive been contemplating this surgery for 4 years now.
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for me 5 month to walk almost normally:
1 December: start lengthening
15 December: wheelchair but 100% self-sufficient (groceries, shower, toilet, etc.)
20 December: start go to gym every day (still no legs)
1 January: use stationary bike
10 January: swimm in pool
20 January: use walking frame to walk
10 February: go back to work in my Barcelona office
15 February: live in private apartment and go to private gym
20 March: start using crutches
10 April: stop lengthening
20 April: vacation in Tunisia, use no more crutches
1 May: use bike for daily commuting
15 May: starting to run slowly
25 May: play soccer, and walk normally, so my family does not notice the difference
June-July: everything almost 100% normal, but still working on running to get back to same speed
Dr. Monegal: I think 100% success rate, you can see it in many diaries on this forum.
Only bad cases I am aware off:
- Cooper, where doctor was not able to finish since patient went back to his old doctor
- Musicmaker, where bone got fractured during surgery.
- one patient that lengthened at 2mm per day (twice as much as maximum allowed) and know claims to have nerve damage.
Other than that I only know of small things like fitbone screw replacement or preconsolidation, which is not failure.
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Thank you very much for your fast reply. Theres one thing more, i know that you mentioned the price before but how much do you think everyone should budget for this operation.
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45,000 euro.
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Hey helloworld! You're looking good!
On va se voir bientot ;)
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45,000 euro.
What this price contains?
I think than internal with Monegal cost 37.500 euros, what exactly the extra 7.500 are?
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What this price contains?
I think than internal with Monegal cost 37.500 euros, what exactly the extra 7.500 are?
I heared that Dr. Monegal will likely increase price, but believe it is still 37.500 euro for everything.
However, this does not include the flight to Barcelona, the stay at the recovery centre or hotel, nor your meals once you are out of the hospital, nor the lost earnings that you might have due to having to work less during recovery.
So if your bank account is 0 after you spent money on surgery you might have problem.
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I heared that Dr. Monegal will likely increase price, but believe it is still 37.500 euro for everything.
However, this does not include the flight to Barcelona, the stay at the recovery centre or hotel, nor your meals once you are out of the hospital, nor the lost earnings that you might have due to having to work less during recovery.
So if your bank account is 0 after you spent money on surgery you might have problem.
I only talked about surgical fees. Of course living there and tickets increase the cost.
Is there a reason for an increase in Monegal's fees? If money is not the reason he operates for LL, as some of his patients say, then I can't see why he wants to increase his prices.
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If money is not the main reason he operates for LL
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I only talked about surgical fees. Of course living there and tickets increase the cost.
Is there a reason for an increase in Monegal's fees? If money is not the reason he operates for LL, as some of his patients say, then I can't see why he wants to increase his prices.
I heared of case where child was from Somalia without any resources but needed an operation so he offered to operate for free.
So I think it is great to take money from people who have enough and want to do surgery for cosmetic reasons, and use money to improve the lives of people without resources who really need the surgery.
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Thats the reality that this surgery will only get more expensive not cheaper as time passes on. Perhaps you can negotiate a lower price when you are ready to have the surgery.
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I heared of case where child was from Somalia without any resources but needed an operation so he offered to operate for free.
So I think it is great to take money from people who have enough and want to do surgery for cosmetic reasons, and use money to improve the lives of people without resources who really need the surgery.
If I had plenty of money I'd go to Rozbruch.
Monegal is a good choice for many due to his relatively normal price for internals in europe.
But if he increases his price then there are much more choices with precise 2 which seems superior to fitbone.
Anyway I hope he thinks carefully and not lose the benefit he has from the majority of european doctors who do internals.
The thing that we make a cosmetic surgery to be average in height doesn't make us millionaires who don't know where to spend their money.
An above average man like you helloworld does this surgery only for cosmetic reasons but average and especially short men are doing it to live normally without social problems that comes with short stature, so LL is not a vanity surgery for many of us (for me especially before my first surgery).
So for me "a child from Somalia" and all these stories are not enough to justify an increase in prices.
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Prices for LL are going up. I remember there was a time when Dr. Paley did LL for 50 k USD or even less if my memory doesn't fail me. However, I think that with the number of LL doctors increasing and with reliable methods, there will be competition for patients (which are not a lot due to the nature of the surgery).
I, for instance, would like to read more diaries about Dr. Pili. He uses Precise 2 and is only a little bit more expensive than Monegal. He learned with Dr. Catagni who is a LL legend and Italy is a beautiful country (although not the best for handicapped people).
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Also, beware of the "good nature" of doctors. Many times, they do international campaigns in 3rd world countries to gain experience (for the team, residents, and even interesting cases for the lead doctor). While there is good will involved hopefully, people who benefit from these campaigns usually do not have the means to have the surgery otherwise, are happy to be operated for free, and are much less likely to sue than in 1st world countries.
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Of course this doctor and others use third world people as guinea pigs because they can't sue
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An above average man like you helloworld does this surgery only for cosmetic reasons but average and especially short men are doing it to live normally without social problems that comes with short stature, so LL is not a vanity surgery for many of us (for me especially before my first surgery).
Bodybuilder, you were able to do sports, lift weights, walk and run normally even before the CLL and before ATL, right? The two surgeries did not improve the functioning of your body, did they? So it is a purely cosmetic surgery.
It is true that I had a higher starting height, but compared to my family I am still much shorter, and only due to health issues as a child did I end up short. So in my case it was merely a correction of what should have happened naturally, as my predicted height when I was a child was much more.
But just like you, I also had no medical reason to do the surgery. So I feel it is OK, even good, if people like you and me have to pay a lot and endure pain to get the surgery done, otherwise everyone would do it.
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Bodybuilder, you were able to do sports, lift weights, walk and run normally even before the CLL and before ATL, right? The two surgeries did not improve the functioning of your body, did they? So it is a purely cosmetic surgery.
It is true that I had a higher starting height, but compared to my family I am still much shorter, and only due to health issues as a child did I end up short. So in my case it was merely a correction of what should have happened naturally, as my predicted height when I was a child was much more.
But just like you, I also had no medical reason to do the surgery. So I feel it is OK, even good, if people like you and me have to pay a lot and endure pain to get the surgery done, otherwise everyone would do it.
First of all, you were 1.80 before LL so it is insane to say you were short. And also I don't know health issues that make you become "only" 1.80.
Anyway, I don't care if you were from a family of basketball players helloworld but your height was already above average so you really did it for cosmetic reasons.
I was 1.68 before LL, 10 cm less than average in my country, so no I didn't do it purely cosmetic but to live a normal life at an almost height.
If a girl who has a flat chest does boobjob it is not the same compared to a girl who had c cup and still a boobjob.
With men and height, the more shorter you are from average the less cosmetic is the purpose for LL.
So if Monegal wants to raise th prices, he would do it for taller than average people who don't need LL, not all.
Also, even if LL was free only a few would do it because it is a very hard and risky surgery.
So no, it is not good for any reason at all for a doctor to increase the price.
Personally, Monegal is one of my possible choices for internal femurs but if his prices become the same with Pili lets say, who is in europe too and has the superior precise 2, then Monegal won't be a choice for me and many more like me.
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But this surgery will NEVER improve your physical function. This in addition to the fact that the majority, yes the majority, of short statured people (that are not classified as having dwarfism or restricted growth) can live their lives normally without even considering this surgery makes it purely cosmetic regardless of your justification
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But this surgery will NEVER improve your physical function. This in addition to the fact that the majority, yes the majority, of short statured people (that are not classified as having dwarfism or restricted growth) can live their lives normally without even considering this surgery makes it purely cosmetic regardless of your justification
Normal is not only a matter of function.
If socially you face disadvantages due to your appearance, then a cosmetic surgery is not for making your life perfect or for vanity but for making you live normal.
So of course it is not the same for a 5.5 man to do LL compared to a 5.11 one.
If Monegal or any other LL doctor think that these two patients are the same only because they do LL and think it is good to increase the price for both of them, it is ok.
I'll just go to an other doctor who thinks more logically.
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Normal is not only a matter of function.
If socially you face disadvantages due to your appearance, then a cosmetic surgery is not for making your life perfect or for vanity but for making you live normal.
So of course it is not the same for a 5.5 man to do LL compared to a 5.11 one.
If Monegal or any other LL doctor think that these two patients are the same only because they do LL and think it is good to increase the price for both of them, it is ok.
I'll just go to an other doctor who thinks more logically.
LL is a cosmetic surgery, it doesn't matter if you start as 1.68 m or 1.80 m. The fact that the 1.68m man has actual social advantages in increasing his height and that the 1.80 one is only a special snowflake that wants to be taller than everyone/the majority to feel better about themselves DOES NOT change the cosmetic nature of the procedure. A non-cosmetic LL is the case of a limb discrepancy in which a person has to wear ugly enormous shoes just to walk close to normal and has chronic back pain because of this. The latter case is a non cosmetic LL, because it improves function while CLL does not regardless of initial height.
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It is also naive and stupid to think that a doctor should increase the prices for a 5'10 man vs a 5'5 man. For a doctor, both cases are cosmetic and there is no difference from a medical point of view of why one should be more entitled than the other. A doctor with strong ethics would not perform such a risky procedure for a normal functional person.
Dr. Monegal has every right to increase the price of the surgery. Keep in mind that because of inflation prices of everything go up (manufacture of the nail, hospital expenses, etc). Also, unlike his initial bad cases, now I think he has gained experience and because of this his "worth" as a LL doctor is going up. The same happened when Dr. Paley started doing CLL compared to now (he doubled his price).
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Very well explained LLSouthAmerica! I agree with everything you said.
Bodybuilder, in your country 200 years ago, you would have been perfect average even before LL! So you are not below average because you are short but because the average height increased a lot in recent years. If all people of your height were taller, then the average height would be even higher, which makes everyone feel shorter!
On the other hand short people bring the average down, and thus benefit everyone else.
Fitbone vs Precise II. Dr. Monegal can operate with both but prefers Fitbone. Why would you think Precise II is better?
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Very well explained LLSouthAmerica! I agree with everything you said.
Bodybuilder, in your country 200 years ago, you would have been perfect average even before LL! So you are not below average because you are short but because the average height increased a lot in recent years. If all people of your height were taller, then the average height would be even higher, which makes everyone feel shorter!
On the other hand short people bring the average down, and thus benefit everyone else.
Fitbone vs Precise II. Dr. Monegal can operate with both but prefers Fitbone. Why would you think Precise II is better?
I insist that a cosmetic surgery is not the same for anyone.
No LLsouthamerica, LL is not just a cosmetic procedure for a 5.3 tall man, it is necessary for him to live normally.
A 5.3 man who lives in the fringe because noone respect him and can't date any woman is not doing LL to become handsome but to live more normal.
Not only people with leg discrepancies have true true reasons to do LL. And if someone does a cosmetic surgery just to live normal, then there is no difference with someone who does a surgery to fix a health problem and live normal too.
Health and social problems are two aspects of living normally.
Helloworld, I explained you that even LL was for free, only a few people have the guts to do it.
So increasing the price is not good for someone like me who wants another one LL and has proven that he has the guts to do it, because the more money I spend there the less I can spend in imoroving my life in other aspects.
Maybe you have plenty of money but I don't and price play a big role for me.
Finally, precise 2 is superior because it is more reliable (your fitbone stopped working and you needed another surgery and maybe you'll have to pay for something that is not your fault and fitbone stopped working in musicmaker too and other patients so it is really unreliable), it has more weight bearing capabilities and it can go backwards.
Is there anything that fitbone does better than precise 2?
Also, I wonder what is the price for doing LL with precise 2 and Monegal, because there we can see exactly if he is cheaper that Pili who operates in europe too.
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I insist that a cosmetic surgery is not the same for anyone.
No LLsouthamerica, LL is not just a cosmetic procedure for a 5.3 tall man, it is necessary for him to live normally.
A 5.3 man who lives in the fringe because noone respect him and can't date any woman is not doing LL to become handsome but to live more normal.
Not only people with leg discrepancies have true true reasons to do LL. And if someone does a cosmetic surgery just to live normal, then there is no difference with someone who does a surgery to fix a health problem and live normal too.
Health and social problems are two aspects of living normally.
Of course, it is not the same for everyone, as you said a person with a beautiful nose who undergoes rhinoplasty is not the same as a person with a huge ugly nose which everyone looks with disgust. But LL is not necessary, people can live normally at any height; sure with some social problems, as an ugly, deformed, weird looking person might have. Nobody NEEDS CLL.
Leg discrepancy is the only true true reason to do LL.
It is a disagreement on terminology but you are wrong. A cosmetic surgery means "surgery in which the principal purpose is to improve the appearance" which is exactly the case of CLL surgery in which the main result is improved physical appearance and its benefits (women, social standing, etc) NOT recovery of normal function.
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Also, I wonder what is the price for doing LL with precise 2 and Monegal, because there we can see exactly if he is cheaper that Pili who operates in europe too.
I think this would be a good question to ask him! So just ask him.
Dr. Monegal has told me that there are advantages to Precise II but others for Fitbone. But I cannot tell you exactly. So this would be another question you could ask.
Bodybuilder, I agree that society discriminates against short men. I would discrimination on height is much bigger than that on gender, religion, or race.
But still when you are lengthening your legs you only help yourself, not society. ANd if everyone were to do the same, then height becomes more and nobody has gained anything.
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I think this would be a good question to ask him! So just ask him.
Dr. Monegal has told me that there are advantages to Precise II but others for Fitbone. But I cannot tell you exactly. So this would be another question you could ask.
Bodybuilder, I agree that society discriminates against short men. I would discrimination on height is much bigger than that on gender, religion, or race.
But still when you are lengthening your legs you only help yourself, not society. ANd if everyone were to do the same, then height becomes more and nobody has gained anything.
And with fixing a health problem you help yourself and not society.
Hyoothetically speaking yes, if anyone did LL the average height would increase.
But as I said you before, only a few people could handle LL, even the short ones who really benefit a lot from it.
So in reality, price increase just make LL harder for the few of us who are willing to do it. Nothing else.
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Precise is much better in cases of non union you can reverse and it doesn't fail
The child in Somalia story is bull they told me he tricked into people without resources and then made them pay.
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And with fixing a health problem you help yourself and not society.
Hyoothetically speaking yes, if anyone did LL the average height would increase.
But as I said you before, only a few people could handle LL, even the short ones who really benefit a lot from it.
So in reality, price increase just make LL harder for the few of us who are willing to do it. Nothing else.
OK. I see!
I understand that people have a real need for it and would even sacrifice health for gaining height.
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Precise is much better in cases of non union you can reverse and it doesn't fail
The child in Somalia story is bullcrap they told me he tricked into people without resources and then made them pay.
At the beggining I tried to take you seriously but you are really discrediting yourself.
At first Dr. Monegal only helped so that he could experiment on people from a third world country, now he even tricks them to come and then make them pay.
"They have told you that"?
If your goal is to destroy the reputation of Dr. Monegal you have to act more subtly. Right now you are just trying to defame with your invented stories. I recommend you to talk to Dr. Monegal or to one of his patients, but I guess you do not want to do that.
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At the beggining I tried to take you seriously but you are really discrediting yourself.
At first Dr. Monegal only helped so that he could experiment on people from a third world country, now he even tricks them to come and then make them pay.
"They have told you that"?
If your goal is to destroy the reputation of Dr. Monegal you have to act more subtly. Right now you are just trying to defame with your invented stories. I recommend you to talk to Dr. Monegal or to one of his patients, but I guess you do not want to do that.
What I said first is a general trend among first world doctors. They go work in Africa to appear as heroes but they are testing new techniques with people who can't sue. What I said later is something one guy told me for sure that Dr Monegal attracts people without resources and then there are extra fees they struggle to pay.
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helloworld, realpatient. As a medical student who has studied in Europe as well as the US, doctors in first world countries indeed do these campaigns for philanthropy but also to train their residents, study weird exotic cases, etc. However, I wouldn't go so far as accusing Dr. Monegal of that. I can't possibly know for sure if that happened or not.
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What I said first is a general trend among first world doctors. They go work in Africa to appear as heroes but they are testing new techniques with people who can't sue. What I said later is something one guy told me for sure that Dr Monegal attracts people without resources and then there are extra fees they struggle to pay.
Spain has public health system and doctors here get low, standard rates. For private patients, I estimate that Dr. Monegal makes between 5,000 and 6,000 USD net per CLL patient and I have not heared of extra fees.
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Jesus, I thought this was not allowed?, I was always under the illusion from various people that after LL you like become handicapped😂
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Jesus, I thought this was not allowed?, 😂
What is not allowed?
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I have been a regular in this forum, but from now on I will only log in once a week.
To summarize: everything went smoothly. I was able to lead a normal life going to the office normally after 2.5 months post surgery.
Since then I continously improved and now am almost 100% as before except for height difference and the fact that I am still not able to run very fast. Will provide update on the running
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I have been a regular in this forum, but from now on I will only log in once a week.
To summarize: everything went smoothly. I was able to lead a normal life going to the office normally after 2.5 months post surgery.
Since then I continously improved and now am almost 100% as before except for height difference and the fact that I am still not able to run very fast. Will provide update on the running
This is great, happy for you, my operation time may be in November, because the relationship between the visa, I would like to ask you two legs at the same time do the doctor will generally agree, preoperative stretch on the postoperative How much help is to help, and you are getting better and better
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What I said later is something one guy told me for sure that Dr Monegal attracts people without resources and then there are extra fees they struggle to pay.
Total nonsense. I seriously doubt Dr. Monegal would have the will or time to participate in such dishonesty. He not only has a private practice, he works for a Barcelona hospital as well.
You should refrain from posting hearsay if you want to be thought of as credible. - " a guy told me " is pretty flimsy proof when your are assaulting someones character.
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When the guy who told me is a patient of Dr Monegal is different.
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When the guy who told me is a patient of Dr Monegal is different.
I believe it was Donald Trump.
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How can you be so cynical!
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How can you be so cynical!
What do you mean? It wasn't Trump!? I was thinking Merkel but you said it was a guy...
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It was a guy who had surgery last year. He told me he had seen poor people were tricked to discover they had to pay more than expected
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It was a guy who had surgery last year. He told me he had seen poor people were tricked to discover they had to pay more than expected
Dude, can't be Donald trump, hes rich! So I guess rich people are tricked into pay less than expected.
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It was a guy who had surgery last year. He told me he had seen poor people were tricked to discover they had to pay more than expected
Datum,
If there is any truth to that I would bet that is was just a misunderstanding. I took me two weeks just to get Dr. Monegal to take my money for his services, even after hounding him because I didn't want to be holding that much cash. I also know that he will setup payment plans for some patients.
From my personal experiences with Dr. Monegal, I honestly don't think money is the prime motivator for him; he seems much more interested in becoming a recognized leader in LL. I guess money inherently comes with recognized leader status, but my gut instinct is that he is not focused on the payoff at this point in his career, it seems more about self-pride or perhaps self-importance (ego); I don't know him well enough to make that judgement and it would not have changed my selection either way. I decided that it's better to have an over confident surgeon that an surgeon who lacks self confidence....in my case he has been fantastic (so far) ;).
I believe it was Donald Trump.
Lucky for Trump he does not have a stature problem; he doesn't have the will to go though this procedure; he's a total sissy man ;D
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Quick update on Fitbone:
1. I finally have been able to talk to the Fitbone company, Wittenstein; not with the representative that I had talked to before, but with the CEO.
2. He was finally able to answer all my questions.
3. About the compensation, which in my case would be low, a couple of thousand USD max., he offered for me to talk to the Wittenstein company lawyer, which is great, as I really want to find an amicable solution outside court.
Hi helloworld.
It's amazing how well you've done. Sometimes I feel abut miserable because of pain ( I lengthen at 0.81mm/day) and because I have yet to do my other leg. But you're an inspiration, and your diary motivates me.
I'd like to know if Wittenstein told you whether the fitbone nail can sometimes turns less than 0,03mm in each pulse, even if the transmitter counts it.
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Dr Moneygal doesn't care about money. Sure! We know he isn't ego and money driven.
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But every now and then, the clowns tell the truth.
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Dr Moneygal doesn't care about money. Sure! We know he isn't ego and money driven.
He has somewhat of an ego and it's not that he does not care about money, it's not his prime motivator for LL surgery as you claim - there is a big difference. You however, seem to be nothing more that a character assassinating troll; which is simply disgraceful. Why else would you constantly question character assessments from patients that have first hand experience with Dr. Monegal, always insisting that your the one that's being truthful and that his patients provide cover for Dr. Monegals evil side for fear of being abandoned during surgery. How ridiculous! People like that don't become surgeons, they become lawyers, bankers and politicians. :P - (No offense intended to the honerable lawyers, bankers and politicians out there.)
You just seem to enjoy butting heads with others that certainly are in a better position to speak based on facts rather slanderous fiction. People like you are the demise of this forum (and this World).
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This is great, happy for you, my operation time may be in November, because the relationship between the visa, I would like to ask you two legs at the same time do the doctor will generally agree, preoperative stretch on the postoperative How much help is to help, and you are getting better and better
1. Yes, have been 100% except for running. Slowly improving my speed.
2. I know Dr. Monegal prefers sequential limb lengthening, but he was not able to convince me. And I am glad I did bilateral.
3. Once I decided on surgery I started stretching every day and working out to be fit for the surgery.
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Hi helloworld.
It's amazing how well you've done. Sometimes I feel abut miserable because of pain ( I lengthen at 0.81mm/day) and because I have yet to do my other leg. But you're an inspiration, and your diary motivates me.
I'd like to know if Wittenstein told you whether the fitbone nail can sometimes turns less than 0,03mm in each pulse, even if the transmitter counts it.
Wittenstein was surprise by the fact that my lengthening was definately less, however, I think they believe Dr. Monegal's explanation that if there is bone formation, this bone formation causes resistance.
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Why do you comment the same thing on every thread? take it easy.
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Apparently Datum is a surrogate for RealPatient.
Hi Fourinch
You should better stop attacking me because you don't know who I am and how close I am to Monegal's patients. Realpatient is indeed a real patient and he has the right to retaliate after all things that happened to him. Perhaps you had a good surgery but other people didn't and people in the forum should know.
Thanks
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Apparently Datum is a surrogate for RealPatient.
We all know who he is. To be frank, he's only close to his 2nd accounts, he even talks about them in the 3rd person.
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He was referring to Helloworld posting the same in all threads I think.
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Why do you comment the same thing on every thread? take it easy.
quote people so we know who you're talking about/talking to.
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I think he refers to Helloworld because he doesn't quote and his post comes after two posts of him and Helloworld has been posting this in many threads.
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Hi Helloworld,
I hope your recovery is still proceeding smooth. Thanks for making such a detailed diary especially with emphasis on physical recovery and training.
I was wondering if you (or any other Dr. M patient) could explain whether the internal nail gets removed at a later stage?
I remember reading somewhere, that the nail is removed after a year or two, but I could be wrong.
Do you feel any discomfort when walking stairs / walking / running or in general?
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They get removed but only 1 nail has been removed for the moment.
Discomfort is still there for all operated people and for some there is also pain and impairment disability.
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Hi Helloworld,
I hope your recovery is still proceeding smooth. Thanks for making such a detailed diary especially with emphasis on physical recovery and training.
I was wondering if you (or any other Dr. M patient) could explain whether the internal nail gets removed at a later stage?
I remember reading somewhere, that the nail is removed after a year or two, but I could be wrong.
Do you feel any discomfort when walking stairs / walking / running or in general?
Nail removed: yes. Dr. Monegal said we could already remove the nail inside my bones, but not necessary, as no discomfort.
As I mentioned in my prior videos, I can do everything ven running. However, thought running has improved, I think I am still slower, so it is less fun, so I have not been running for large distances. What I do regularly is biking in the moutains, which is more fun and just like before LL.
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I am totally fine except that my running is improving more slowly than I expected.
Here some videos:
Me after 6 months:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y_UHckocp0
Me after 9.5 months:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ejUAomvOAM&feature=youtu.be
Those people that have had LL in the past, could you please share your running experience?
The people that I personally met are with very few exceptions doing extremely well and after 6 months able to do pretty much anything. However, they are not running or if they try they see they are not fast and it is no fun. In fact, nobody from the patients I talked to that had LL within the last year say that they are running as fast as before.
I also have seen videos from patients, and though the patient's say they can run, I am able to see that they are running in a bit unnatural way and are not fast.
Why is running hard?
Biometrics? Less muscle strength because muscle not fully recovered? Or is the muscle still stretched? Or is it because flexibility is less? Or is it because there is an implant in the legs?
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Helloworld I could run a little faster than that (for small distamces though, 100-150m) about 1.5 year after my LL and atl.
If i didn't have atl I could run much faster. And I lengthened 7.5cm on tibias.
In some months that I would try to run again after my at shortening surgery ai believe I could run faster that before.
Maybe with femurs the change in biomechanics is bigger than with tibias but I think this is a little weird for only 5cm lengthening that you did.
That said, if everything else in your daily activities are normal (which as you said it is) then I wouldn't care at all about running fast.
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Helloworld I could run a little faster than that (for small distamces though, 100-150m) about 1.5 year after my LL and atl.
If i didn't have atl I could run much faster. And I lengthened 7.5cm on tibias.
In some months that I would try to run again after my at shortening surgery ai believe I could run faster that before.
Maybe with femurs the change in biomechanics is bigger than with tibias but I think this is a little weird for only 5cm lengthening that you did.
That said, if everything else in your daily activities are normal (which as you said it is) then I wouldn't care at all about running fast.
I did not have ATL, which I have heared is bad. So if you run well, that is encouraging. Thanks!
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I did not have ATL, which I have heared is bad. So if you run well, that is encouraging. Thanks!
Thats the thing, I don't run well but still I run a little faster than you as far as I can see from your video, although I can't run for more than 150 metres.
All these due to atl. Without it I am sure I could run pretty faster. I wait to heal from my at shortening to see how much my running improved.
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Thats the thing, I don't run well but still I run a little faster than you as far as I can see from your video, although I can't run for more than 150 metres.
All these due to atl. Without it I am sure I could run pretty faster. I wait to heal from my at shortening to see how much my running improved.
I would appreciate, if you could measure your 100 meter sprint time; I will do the same next time I am near to a track. That way we can compare.
I also know my times prior to LL so, we could compare pre and post
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Do you think that having the nails inside your femurs can affect your athleticism? Your long bones are supposed to be flexible (which are not, while the nail remains inside) to some degree which I think it is important for high impact sports like running or jumping.
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Hello Helloworld,
I am going to do LL operation at the end of this year (5cm in tibias).
i have ever heard that after lengthening, years later, people usually face some problems like aching bones, getting painful whenever weather changes like turning winter. Although your bones get full consolidation, this side effect still last forever.
How is your? Pls give us some experiences.
Tks so much!
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I have heared pain in bones from one of the many patients I have met.
But me personally do not have any pain in bones, under no circumstances.
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I have been through a cold winter in my country and never have I experience any bone pain because of weather or change in temperature. Now it is startining to becomme sunnier and again no problems with the nail or bones.
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Finally created a account here...will probably regret it. Read trough the post and got a huge headache halfway with the less focus on acutal LL but more blaming the Dr...who if you're not a complete moron or researched is if not the best in the world atleast top 3? I thought about making a post about my experience for the same reason as you to help further patients (as start reading yours was the reason i did it)..but now i don't know. Maybe i'll hijack a bit just mentioning that i did bilateral as well and i've had virtually zero pain except for maybe 2-3 weeks in the start at MIC..i take no pain killers, sleep like a baby, good internet (fiber, i get 300 mb down and 25 mb up - got my own router), nice people, great pt, awesome room coming from a guy who's been living in 5 stars hotels when traveling all his life. Deliveroo every day and Lola market for groceries. I can share my X rays here but i think that would be a bit to much hijacking :P
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Finally created a account here...will probably regret it. Read trough the post and got a huge headache halfway with the less focus on acutal LL but more blaming the Dr...who if you're not a complete moron or researched is if not the best in the world atleast top 3? I thought about making a post about my experience for the same reason as you to help further patients (as start reading yours was the reason i did it)..but now i don't know. Maybe i'll hijack a bit just mentioning that i did bilateral as well and i've had virtually zero pain except for maybe 2-3 weeks in the start at MIC..i take no pain killers, sleep like a baby, good internet (fiber, i get 300 mb down and 25 mb up - got my own router), nice people, great pt, awesome room coming from a guy who's been living in 5 stars hotels when traveling all his life. Deliveroo every day and Lola market for groceries. I can share my X rays here but i think that would be a bit to much hijacking :P
You are welcome to share your x-rays here, but you might as well create your own diary.
You seem to have an excellent and super easy recovery. Congratulations!
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New running video, 10 months after surgery.
I cannot see much difference when looking at the video, but it did feel better than before. Not 100% yet, but getting close.
Will test my speed as soon as I get access to a 100 m track lane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI8_gR4RNYU&sns=em
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Looking good Helloworld,
I'm guessing that your new bone is still consolidating, I've read that it takes 1-2 years before the new bone is 100% formed. Your body is probably also getting used to the changes.
Thanks for keeping us updated. Would be great if you gave us small updates once in a while like this! We rarely hear from people after nails and rods are removed.
Could you try to explain how it feels better than before?
Do you feel less tired in legs, more balance or something similar?
Good luck and keep up!
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Your running is weird but the results are very good coming from a Monegal patient as some of his patients can't walk after 3 years.
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Looking good Helloworld,
I'm guessing that your new bone is still consolidating, I've read that it takes 1-2 years before the new bone is 100% formed. Your body is probably also getting used to the changes.
Thanks for keeping us updated. Would be great if you gave us small updates once in a while like this! We rarely hear from people after nails and rods are removed.
Could you try to explain how it feels better than before?
Do you feel less tired in legs, more balance or something similar?
Good luck and keep up!
You are welcome!
I have not been able to get a definitive answer on why I am not able to run as fast as before and why, as Datum says, my running looks weired. This have been suggestions:
1. muscle needs to regrow 100%, currently it might still be streched
2. I have not been walkign and running that much as I did before surgery, so I just need practise
3. implants has a weight, pulling down my legs
4. the bone normally "bounces" a little bit, I heared, but it cannot if it has implants
5. biomechnics are different, and I have to get used to it
6. my ass muscles are not as strong as before surgery
Personally, I think it is a combination but I am hoping that it is mainly the fact that I still have implants and that the muscle is still stretched but will gradually adjust to new lenght.
How does it feel different?
I would describe it as being a more conscious effort as compared to before, when I would just run without thinking about lifting my legs.
That said there has been a gradual improment, just not as fast as I would have hoped.
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Your running is weird but the results are very good coming from a Monegal patient as some of his patients can't walk after 3 years.
Thanks for your encouragement.
Did you not say above, that he was clearly one of the top 3 doctors in the world?
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https://youtu.be/tGF7HITIEsQ
I did not have a ball. Sorry!
Hope to post a 100 meter sprint video soon, as soon as I get access to a track.
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I hope you will improve but you should be happy. You run weird but you can run.
I never said this doctor was top 3. He is probably bottom 3. I said some patients can't walk after 3 years.
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I hope you will improve but you should be happy. You run weird but you can run.
I never said this doctor was top 3. He is probably bottom 3. I said some patients can't walk after 3 years.
Thanks for your clarification.
Have you talked to the users "Realpatient", and "notimportant"? They would seem to agree with your evaluation of Dr. Monegal.
But after talking personally, face2face, with many of his patients, it would seem that the other user "inferiority complex" is right in that he is at least top 3.
And you probably confused 3 years with 3 weeks, is that possible?
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https://youtu.be/tGF7HITIEsQ
I did not have a ball. Sorry!
Hope to post a 100 meter sprint video soon, as soon as I get access to a track.
Like James
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Monegal isn't top 3. He's bottom 3. And many patients of his can't walk after 2 and 3 fkING YEARS. That's the fkING TRUTH. Many patients here know I'm telling the truth.
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Monegal isn't top 3. He's bottom 3. And many patients of his can't walk after 2 and 3 fkING YEARS. That's the fkING TRUTH. Many patients here know I'm telling the truth.
this forum has had to put up with your $hit for 2 and 3 fkING YEARS. That's the fkING TRUTH.
move your retarded posts onto the Dr Monegal Debates thread ffs... that's why we made it
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this forum has had to put up with your $hit for 2 and 3 fkING YEARS. That's the fkING TRUTH.
move your retarded posts onto the Dr Monegal Debates thread ffs... that's why we made it
Yours are more retarded than me unless you're Monegal himself. What's your agenda Dr Moneygal? Wait, I know... $$$
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you're not only a psycho, you a retard.
told you to move it to the debates thread already. how stupid are you to not understand that?
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which doctor do this surgery?
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wow, I take a rest off this forum for some several months and LLuser has a new account
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which doctor do this surgery?
Dr. Alejandro Monegal
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x-rays from Wednesday:
https://imgur.com/R2OywkU
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do you still need x-rays? you look completely healed. why expose yourself to more radiation? ;)
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You are right.
I asked Dr. Monegal to get surgery asap to get the implants out.
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Same as Crimsotide?
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Same as Crimsotide?
What do you mean?
I was able to get appointment for the 3 hour surgery to take the rods out on the 31st October.
Of course it would have been great to get them out before, but having them inside over the last couple of months when my bone was already consolidates was not a big problem.
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https://youtu.be/aoSrC6fbnl8
doing some quadriceps training.
I really was able to increase strength a lot just by biking to work and doing 15 minutes work almost every day.
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He never sets a date unless he can get some profit from it. Ask Crimsontide.
He fears you because you've got them by the balls. You can sue Witenstein and he is afraid his shady business is over.
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He never sets a date unless he can get some profit from it. Ask Crimsontide.
He fears you because you've got them by the balls. You can sue Witenstein and he is afraid his shady business is over.
Datum who are you? Are you a former patient from monegal?
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He never sets a date unless he can get some profit from it. Ask Crimsontide.
He fears you because you've got them by the balls. You can sue Witenstein and he is afraid his shady business is over.
You think he fears me? I think he respects me and we get along well.
Shady business??? He seems to be the one the most patient diaries on this forum, right?
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Thank you for keeping us updated on your continuous progress, and for continuing to inspire us Helloworld. Some of us hope to be there soon.
I appreciate that you've stuck around to share a little about the post consolidation.
Good luck with having the rods removed.
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You think he fears me? I think he respects me and we get along well.
Shady business??? He seems to be the one the most patient diaries on this forum, right?
Don't feed the troll, man. He has been talking this sh*t for 2 years.
I'm curious: how is your leg strength right now? have you been able to do some (light) squats/deadlifts?
Good luck with your recovery.
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You think he fears me? I think he respects me and we get along well.
Shady business??? He seems to be the one the most patient diaries on this forum, right?
Respect? Why does he badmouth you and Musicmaker then? He's a traitor. You defend him and he badmouths you.
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Back to Clinica Diagonal this time I finally got the implants out.
Need to stay here only one more day. But even afterwards I am no allowed to do any sport for like 2 weeks, not even riding my bike to work!
:-(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut46noPisHo&feature=youtu.be
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Well done mate ! so jealous of you, I cant wait to be there . See clinica Diagonal in your video brought me good memories.
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Congrats helloworld!
Does that mean you no longer have any “foreign” objects in your legs? As in no nail, rods, screws and bolts are in your body anymore?
If that is the case, it would be very interesting to see if your running feels better the next couple of months.
Our bone is made of material that is somewhat elastic, but the metal nail and rods/screws are not, and thus I have a suspicioun that difficulty in running after fitbone may be partially due to the bone not being able to be elastic (on a very small anatomic scale) and reduce stress on your legs.
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Well done mate ! so jealous of you, I cant wait to be there . See clinica Diagonal in your video brought me good memories.
Thanks!
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Congrats helloworld!
Does that mean you no longer have any “foreign” objects in your legs? As in no nail, rods, screws and bolts are in your body anymore?
If that is the case, it would be very interesting to see if your running feels better the next couple of months.
Our bone is made of material that is somewhat elastic, but the metal nail and rods/screws are not, and thus I have a suspicioun that difficulty in running after fitbone may be partially due to the bone not being able to be elastic (on a very small anatomic scale) and reduce stress on your legs.
You are so right! It will be very interesting to see how the running goes now.
I wont be able to run for another 2-3 weeks just to be make sure that nothing breaks,
But then, 12 month after surgery, I will really be able to see if my running has improved or is maybe 100% back to normal.
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newest x-rays after rod removal:
https://imgur.com/a/8UPyV
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Wrapping plastic around my femurs to protect wounds against water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-q5r-Hu-bU&feature=youtu.be
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Great illustrative videos.
Have a good recovery.
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It has been one year since I started.
2,5 weeks since I got the implants out.
My legs are still a bit swollen from the last surgery and thus I still have not recovered the full flexibility that I had before taking out the implants, and am still not running.
However, I bike everyday. For the last few days I have been working outside at the place you see in the video, where I am right now, because I can place my laptop on some concrete which is 145 high and work standing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIC6Ef_-hmI&feature=youtu.be
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Just got a video taken by inferioritycomplex.
One month after the implant removal my knees are still swollen and have not regained the flexibility I had prior to removal.
So the running is still not 100% but I think it is getting a bit closer, as my wounds heal 100%.
https://youtu.be/hvhdgaVYmOY
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Just got a video taken by inferioritycomplex.
One month after the implant removal my knees are still swollen and have not regained the flexibility I had prior to removal.
So the running is still not 100% but I think it is getting a bit closer, as my wounds heal 100%.
https://youtu.be/hvhdgaVYmOY
Looks much more natural
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It looks like you are running with some heavy stuff on your shoulders. I'm sure once inflammation goes away your normal speed and agility will come back.
Keep it up man!
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Hi Helloworld! I was never much of a runner (more swimmer, only uni never national level), but I could get back to my 5k 30 min time after 17 months stopping lengthening. Everything felt different at first, joints, muscles, gait, but the body just needs to relearn how to run again. I quite sure you will get back to 100% of your pre 'LL level.
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Cool to know Antonio, did you remove your rods? You are welcome to join us here in Barcelona, good place :)
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Hey helloworld, good progress you are doing great.
Is there any chance that you could do and film a cooper test at some point?
It is where you run on a track for 12 minutes and is from my knowledge a widespread way of testing the running endurance of a person.
If you could reach 2000-2500 meters in 12 minutes it would put you in the normal category afaik.
If you were able to film it doing so it would prove once and for all that it is possible to reach a normal level of running after lengthening.
Good luck with your further recovery.
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Why do so many of you feel this need of showing off about pre LL athletic abilities? Helloworld posting his video is OK, but Inferioritycomplex and other people boasting about their physical abilities is boring. It also leads sensible users to question their mental equilibrium. Only a loser would use this forum to show off.
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Why do so many of you feel this need of showing off about pre LL athletic abilities? Helloworld posting his video is OK, but Inferioritycomplex and other people boasting about their physical abilities is boring. It also leads sensible users to question their mental equilibrium. Only a loser would use this forum to show off.
Who is showing off? The mention of pre-LL athletic abilities is so that a proper comparison can be made between pre and post 'LL states without subjective opinions. Running at x speed pre 'LL and 90%x post 'LL means that the loss can be quantified and so the risk rewards can be better evaluated. Instead of talking ck you should be thanking us
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Who is showing off? The mention of pre-LL athletic abilities is so that a proper comparison can be made between pre and post 'LL states without subjective opinions. Running at x speed pre 'LL and 90%x post 'LL means that the loss can be quantified and so the risk rewards can be better evaluated. Instead of talking ck you should be thanking us
Not you. You said uni level, but Inferioritycomplex is showing off too much, as well as other users. I'm not thanking you because I have my own LL Friends, and their accounts are more accurate than all the propaganda posted in this forum. I just felt the need to tell users not to consider Helloworld as an example, because there are both worse and better cases. Don't generalize please.
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Running became a bit more normal.
Only thing that is bothering me is that my left knee is still a bit swolen after the rod removal surgery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=delCKe9cPhw&feature=youtu.be
@FDR: I am always on the lookout for a track where I could measure my running. As soon as I find I will do it.
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Running became a bit more normal.
Only thing that is bothering me is that my left knee is still a bit swolen after the rod removal surgery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=delCKe9cPhw&feature=youtu.be
@FDR: I am always on the lookout for a track where I could measure my running. As soon as I find I will do it.
Looking very good hello world! Are you now based here permanently?
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I live right next to the tower you see in the video.
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Hey helloworld, good progress you are doing great.
Is there any chance that you could do and film a cooper test at some point?
It is where you run on a track for 12 minutes and is from my knowledge a widespread way of testing the running endurance of a person.
If you could reach 2000-2500 meters in 12 minutes it would put you in the normal category afaik.
If you were able to film it doing so it would prove once and for all that it is possible to reach a normal level of running after lengthening.
Good luck with your further recovery.
Hello FDR,
Today I did try out your suggestion and ran 12 minutes.
I was able to run 2700 meters, which is just as much as I expected.
Before I was able to run 4000 in 15 minutes and 1000 in 3 minutes, so I am expecting I would have been able to do around 3200 before. But those times were my personal records and achieved after trying, while now I have not run 1 km or more in over a year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXJitkeQjQg&feature=youtu.be
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the track is 400 m per lab, I did 6.7 rounds in 12 minutes, equalling 2700 m.
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2km in 8:44 min
before operation I think I would have been able to do this in close to minutes, but of course I did not run for very long time.
https://youtu.be/c5z3AawrL0k
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2 more videos of running at the beach in Barcelona.
Running feels quite normal now.
I am pretty sure I am not far off my maximum speed prior to surgery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQu8Lb8kOPw&feature=youtu.be
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BGfZpbQ9Rg&feature=youtu.be
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Looking good! Thanks for sharing these videos.
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Helloworld im very happy that you are close to your original running speed that a great thing thank you for all your effort you will Help many people by making videos about running you made me optimistic beceause im very worried about losing my running abilty if i decided to do LL in the future
Im 177 cm tall wingspan 192 cm yeah I have wide frame compared to my height
Can i ask you a question why you have done LL because you are Farley tall 180,5 is good height in Brazil compared to average Brazilian male height
Sorry my English is poor and i hope the Best for you
I hope you recover very well peace
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My family is very tall and when I went to the doctor when I was 12 he analyzsed my bones and ssid I would be 1,85 which was very disappointing. But the real disappointment came when I was 15 nad 1,79 expecting to grow another 10 cm and the same doctor said I had pretty much finished growing.
But you are right, my feeling of height depends on the country I live in. If I am in northern Europe it is worse than in sourthern Europe or Latin America.
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Helloworld lol i know now why you did LL because i spent a lot of my time reading each post you have written
I have to a conclusion from my short journey here in this forum , that most people suffered complication
Did more than 5 cm like unicorn and Sweden for example I'm 177 cm but i will try to improve my back posture and my head posture if i can squeeze a 1 cm or 2 cm , i think i have posture but not very bad just a bit than normal
Im following your dairy and i will check your progress that going to motivate me more
If i got the resources and time and the willing i will do LL
My goal is to gain 4.cm no more
I will be 181 cm and if i managed to squeeze 1cm from my posture that will be good 181 cm to 182 cm is very good heigh for my , I'm not doing LL for girls absolutely no . from my experience i dated tall girls 180 cm, short girls, fat woman all type's the important aspect they really like is if you are good looking men , and i think im a good looking handsome olive skin 27 years old men with soft hair wide eyes , i have no problem dating any women
But i the problem is im the shortest men in my family my father is 189 cm my mom is tall 178 cm taller than me my brother 190 the youngest brother 18 is 185 cm tall my only sister is 178 the same height as my mom the same case as you i feel you men why you have gone through this torture
And the reason why i stayed 177 cm since 14 because i become addicted to drugs i fked up in school and life i barely eat i became a zombie
And i fought all this and quite all this since 2011 i never smoked drugs nor a cigarette nor even a beer
And the guilt is killing me because i fked up my height and my body , i can't leave with this guilt anymore that why im considering LL
Sorry if said some offensive inappropriate words
And forgive my poor English i started learning it mars 2017
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Your starting situation is similar to mine.
I think in your case LL is the right decision.
Althought I only gain 5 cm, I would do it all over again.
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I think you made a perfect decision for not going beyond the 5 cm mark because i doubt you will get a wonderful recovery like you got now
And i think you look perfect and proportions look good for me 185.5 cm is Cristiano CRonnie7 height lol
I'm big football fan 5 cm is huge jump from 180 cm
Just Google Cristiano CRonnie7 and James Rodriguez standing together And you will see the huge difference between 180 James and 185 CRonnie7 , i will never ever go beyond 5 cm actually 4 cm is my goal to get a good recovery and enjoy my life
I hope you will improve more because your dairy is impressive and please don't stop uploading good stuff here . peace
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Helloworld lol i know now why you did LL because i spent a lot of my time reading each post you have written
I have to a conclusion from my short journey here in this forum , that most people suffered complication
Did more than 5 cm like unicorn and Sweden for example I'm 177 cm but i will try to improve my back posture and my head posture if i can squeeze a 1 cm or 2 cm , i think i have posture but not very bad just a bit than normal
Im following your dairy and i will check your progress that going to motivate me more
If i got the resources and time and the willing i will do LL
My goal is to gain 4.cm no more
I will be 181 cm and if i managed to squeeze 1cm from my posture that will be good 181 cm to 182 cm is very good heigh for my , I'm not doing LL for girls absolutely no . from my experience i dated tall girls 180 cm, short girls, fat woman all type's the important aspect they really like is if you are good looking men , and i think im a good looking handsome olive skin 27 years old men with soft hair wide eyes , i have no problem dating any women
But i the problem is im the shortest men in my family my father is 189 cm my mom is tall 178 cm taller than me my brother 190 the youngest brother 18 is 185 cm tall my only sister is 178 the same height as my mom the same case as you i feel you men why you have gone through this torture
And the reason why i stayed 177 cm since 14 because i become addicted to drugs i fked up in school and life i barely eat i became a zombie
And i fought all this and quite all this since 2011 i never smoked drugs nor a cigarette nor even a beer
And the guilt is killing me because i fked up my height and my body , i can't leave with this guilt anymore that why im considering LL
Sorry if said some offensive inappropriate words
And forgive my poor English i started learning it mars 2017
I know how you feel bro... In my case I took accutane when I was 14-15 because of severe acne. My younger brother who also had severe acne decided not to take it. Well I stopped growing at 15 or 16 but he kept growing till 19 or so. I'm 175cm while he is 191-192cm. We are really alike in many genetical and phenotypical terms so Im pretty sure this drug stunt my growth. The saddest part is that my brother doesn't have worse skin than me, he recovered well from his teenager acne. I think nobody should treat their acne with drugs if he is a teen, its just a normal phase of your life. Doctors are ruining lifes prescribing this .
I feel angry, everyday of my life, towards the doctor who decided to give me this drug even if I was concerned about growth stunt and he denied it, and towards my father who is also a doctor and couldn't care about knowing what accutane is.
At least my father is willing to afford the price of LL with Monegal but... the only thing that restrains me from doing it is that I have a really big number of friends and it would be really weird... some of them would even be angry at me since they are also 170-175 and wouldn't understand why I need this. Just because they don't have a giant brother and a tall mother like me and an obvious reason for my final height...
What did you tell to your social circle, @helloworld ?
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We have the same problem but with different circumstances , you blamed the doctor and i blame myself every day
If you can afford to do LL don't care about people what they may think about you , the most important thing is breaking your legs and going through the horrible torture of lenghtning and loosing your athletic ability and complications you may get from LL
I think helloworld didn't tell his family about the surgery
Please think carfuly even the best doctors can make you suffer
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Guys you really have a problem that LL isn't going to fix. CLL is contraindicated in people suffering from BDD as you obviously are when you wish LL at 175 or above.
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Guys you really have a problem that LL isn't going to fix. CLL is contraindicated in people suffering from BDD as you obviously are when you wish LL at 175 or above.
I'm pretty sure I don't have BDD. Here in Spain I'm a bit under average height and that's a reality. The obsessive disorder is my height disphoria, I explained my reasons for that. I don't even feel very tiny outside, I just feel bad when I see my brother and my cousins who are all tall. My case is pretty similar to @helloworld... and I think I would be happy with just 5cm more to be average/a bit taller than average and not feel like a dwarf next to my brother.
BTW is very humilliating to hear people asking why is my brother so tall. Is a hard feeling to describe if you are not in a similar situation.
And ofc you can't just tell people about accutane stunting growth because they will laugh inside and think you're just a loser for blaming external things. But I'm 99% sure it was accutane, I had terrible bone pain when I was taking it and I was on a high dose.
But I agree with you, if someone has BDD probably shouldn't do this surgery. Actually I think nobody should do this surgery, not even me, but I can't help it.
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I know how you feel bro... In my case I took accutane when I was 14-15 because of severe acne. My younger brother who also had severe acne decided not to take it. Well I stopped growing at 15 or 16 but he kept growing till 19 or so. I'm 175cm while he is 191-192cm. We are really alike in many genetical and phenotypical terms so Im pretty sure this drug stunt my growth. The saddest part is that my brother doesn't have worse skin than me, he recovered well from his teenager acne. I think nobody should treat their acne with drugs if he is a teen, its just a normal phase of your life. Doctors are ruining lifes prescribing this .
I feel angry, everyday of my life, towards the doctor who decided to give me this drug even if I was concerned about growth stunt and he denied it, and towards my father who is also a doctor and couldn't care about knowing what accutane is.
At least my father is willing to afford the price of LL with Monegal but... the only thing that restrains me from doing it is that I have a really big number of friends and it would be really weird... some of them would even be angry at me since they are also 170-175 and wouldn't understand why I need this. Just because they don't have a giant brother and a tall mother like me and an obvious reason for my final height...
What did you tell to your social circle, @helloworld ?
Interesting! My brother in law is around 1,95 and his brother around 1,75. When I asked about how such a big difference was possible my brother in law told me it might have to do with the fact that his brother had very bad acne and had to take medications.
No problem with social circle, so far as I made the adjustment gradually, wearing lifts before the surgery and no heel 5 finger shoes right after surgery before going to normal. So people did not notice, and when they did "you look taller!" nobody suspected anything.
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We have the same problem but with different circumstances , you blamed the doctor and i blame myself every day
If you can afford to do LL don't care about people what they may think about you , the most important thing is breaking your legs and going through the horrible torture of lenghtning and loosing your athletic ability and complications you may get from LL
I think helloworld didn't tell his family about the surgery
Please think carfuly even the best doctors can make you suffer
Did not tell before I was almost recovered.
But once I told about it it was big relief that I could share this.
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Guys you really have a problem that LL isn't going to fix. CLL is contraindicated in people suffering from BDD as you obviously are when you wish LL at 175 or above.
I see it as a rational investment.
There are many costs and benefits associated with LL and I felt before it would be worth it, meaning more benefits than costs and I still feel that way after doing LL.
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I see it as a rational investment.
There are many costs and benefits associated with LL and I felt before it would be worth it, meaning more benefits than costs and I still feel that way after doing LL.
For you there were more benefits than costs but you should consider the cases of people who have wasted years of their lives, spent more than 100 or 200k due to complications and haven't yet recovered. RESPECT.
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For you there were more benefits than costs but you should consider the cases of people who have wasted years of their lives, spent more than 100 or 200k due to complications and haven't yet recovered. RESPECT.
those people are the same people who lengthened too much,
went to a bad doctor (like monegal or guichet),
or didnt follow the doctors advice.
helloworld's case is prolly had the best recovery of all monegal pts. that doctor is a butcher who uses the worst internal lengthening device.
go to paley, rozbruch, mahboubian, parihar
i have yet to see one long term complication from these doctors. If you go to a bad doc, you'll be lucky to walk normally again
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I wouldn't say Guichet or Monegal are bad surgeons... but, as Unicorn says, 'get a grip on reality before putting your life at so much risk'. Helloworld and LLSouthAmerica are very good cases by Guichet and Monegal (good and quick recovery), but these doctors also have TERRIBLE cases. Unicorn and Musicmaker are very good examples of the life-long complications you can get from LL by these surgeons.
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I wouldn't say Guichet or Monegal are bad surgeons... but, as Unicorn says, 'get a grip on reality before putting your life at so much risk'. Helloworld and LLSouthAmerica are very good cases by Guichet and Monegal (good and quick recovery), but these doctors also have TERRIBLE cases. Unicorn and Musicmaker are very good examples of the life-long complications you can get from LL by these surgeons.
They are indeed helpful and will avoid spinal compression between morning and evening height,( you can even increase your morning height a little bit). But this increase is not permanent unfortunately
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And of course Unicorn and Musicmaker shouldn't be blamed. They followed the doctors' advices, but got complications instead.
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For you there were more benefits than costs but you should consider the cases of people who have wasted years of their lives, spent more than 100 or 200k due to complications and haven't yet recovered. RESPECT.
Yes! You are right! In many other cases you read in the forum it was not worth it.
However, all the Monegal patients that I have talked to, except for one, (I have talked to around 12 patients) it was the right decision, at least so far, when no complication is apparent.
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Helloworld i hope you are doing well , i which you post new videos about how your running improved
Are you still exercising and stretching ?
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Helloworld i hope you are doing well , i which you post new videos about how your running improved
Are you still exercising and stretching ?
Exercise: yes, but much less.
Went from 2.5 hours per day right after operation, to 2 hours, 1.5 and 1 hour around 6 months later.
Now, I am still exercising 10- 20 minutes each day and doing a few minutes of stretching.
Another video? I posted one less than 3 week ago.
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But what about running ?
Do you feel better i mean do you feel you flexibltly improved ? Do you feel any pain in your knees
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I feel better and no pain in the knee.
Here is running video. I think I am as fast as before but still need to find a 100 meter track.
https://youtu.be/yJd2Unc54Vg
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I feel better and no pain in the knee.
Here is running video. I think I am as fast as before but still need to find a 100 meter track.
https://youtu.be/yJd2Unc54Vg
congraturation mannnn .Nice Runninng
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Your running seems somewhat slow and the gait is a little weird Helloworld.
That said, it is completely normal after LL and even better than average, but I don't think you ran like that before LL, otherwisenyour sprint was not very fast.
I can run about like that while I am still rehabilitating from my at shortening surgery and my running ability is much worse than before LL. So I don't think the running on your video is as good as before LL, which is normal as I said before (and still you are better than the vast majority of LLers).
But you know better
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I feel better and no pain in the knee.
Here is running video. I think I am as fast as before but still need to find a 100 meter track.
https://youtu.be/yJd2Unc54Vg
Congratulations, you seem pretty good. I have a question regarding your current height. So you lengthened 5,5 cm, how much did your real height increase in fact? Have u measured your height exactly? Because you know femur bone is not vertical as tibia bone, so if you lengthened 5,5 cm, you may gain 5,5 cm real height. i am just curious about difference between lengthened and real height
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I feel it is normal, but I would need a 100 meter track to know for sure.
Before I was around 13.5 for 100 meters.
What I do know is that a friend, the one who did the video, is pretty fast and a former Tai kwan do champion and I easily outran him.
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I'm just glad some people can run again. I don't expect any of them to be just like they were before, after stretching their soft tissues so much.
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Ok, maybe from video we cant see exactly how fast you run.
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helloworld,
You look great running man. I was always surprised at your level of PT, and just saw videos again of you in March 2017, you had almost no muscle atrophy.
I am currently lengthening with Precise 2 which seems to limit us a little more, and the muscle atrophy for me has been pretty bad.
Any advise you can share from those times for you.
Thanks.
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helloworld,
You look great running man. I was always surprised at your level of PT, and just saw videos again of you in March 2017, you had almost no muscle atrophy.
I am currently lengthening with Precise 2 which seems to limit us a little more, and the muscle atrophy for me has been pretty bad.
Any advise you can share from those times for you.
Thanks.
He was already tall before LL, so his % increase in his femurs isn't nearly as high as the ones from most people in here, who do ~6cm at shorter heights. And he had a good recovery. This is why I think I'm gonna think hard about my max limit when doing LL.
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about muscle extension:
does the muscle not also extend during childhood and puberty? There does not seem to be a problem with it.
So what I did, and which I think helped was:
exercise and strech for 2.5 hours day during first few month, which now got reduced to around 20 minutes per day
always do high intensity workouts
sleep 8 hours+
see the sun as much as possible
eat around 2 kg of raw fruits and vegetables per day
take creatin, lysin, vitamin D, calcium
extend really slowly: 5.5 cm over 3 months
go back to normal life (going to office, seeing friends, going to normal gym, travelling) after less than 3 months
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Thank you for sharing this helloworld. It all seems doable except for the sleep part. Seems I can only get 30-40 minutes of sleep at a time currently. I am at the 6 cm mark and it has gotten tough.
Thank you for coming back to answer and update. Glad you're well!
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Thank you for sharing this helloworld. It all seems doable except for the sleep part. Seems I can only get 30-40 minutes of sleep at a time currently. I am at the 6 cm mark and it has gotten tough.
Thank you for coming back to answer and update. Glad you're well!
True!
I did three sleep sessions: at night, early morning and afternoon.
That is what bothered me most.
I remember I would take hot and cold showers to get some relief from pain.
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Everything is fine.
I had not been weighing myself for many month maybe a year and was shocked when I went on the scale.
Shocked because before I was weighing between 80-84 kg for as long as I can remember.
And I did not become skinnier nor did I become fater, nor more muscular. I look the same!
But now I weigh 88.5 kg, 5 kg more than before.
So I guess this additional weight comes from the additional leg bone and muscle.
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Hows your new life after LL?
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Hello world!
I did not post for over 7 months, so wanted to give a quick update: Everything is fine!
Muscle strength: same or better
I remember that I was proud that a few month after surgery I was already lifting with my legs 80 kg, more than most other guys. In fact, I remember that I was shocked when a really muscular guy was lifting around 100 kg. But recently I went to the same gym again, after 9 month of no training there, and I was able to the maximum weight of 140 kg, which I never saw anybody else do.
Will post video soon.
Speed
I still have to time a 100 meter run.
I ran 1km in 3:35. Before my all time best was just under 3:00. However, I also had not been training at all, so I would think the running speed is close to normal.
Flexibility
Before the surgery I had improved my flexibility to almost be able to touch the floor with my entire palm. This flexibility I have now lost. But also, it is true that I am not doing much stretching.
Side Effects
I feel fine. However, my left knee made a click when fully stretching it. Now this click has become a grinding sound when bending it.
Will post video soon.
Was it worth it?
Yes!
I think that in the end from the 5.5 cm I lengthened I only gained 4.5. But this small difference does make a big difference how I see myself and how other see me. A lot of people that were 1-3 cm taller than me are now 1-3 cm shorter than me, and it does make a difference in interaction. This has led to more confidence and thus improved the quality of my life.
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Hello world!
I did not post for over 7 months, so wanted to give a quick update: Everything is fine!
Muscle strength: same or better
I remember that I was proud that a few month after surgery I was already lifting with my legs 80 kg, more than most other guys. In fact, I remember that I was shocked when a really muscular guy was lifting around 100 kg. But recently I went to the same gym again, after 9 month of no training there, and I was able to the maximum weight of 140 kg, which I never saw anybody else do.
Will post video soon.
Speed
I still have to time a 100 meter run.
I ran 1km in 3:35. Before my all time best was just under 3:00. However, I also had not been training at all, so I would think the running speed is close to normal.
Flexibility
Before the surgery I had improved my flexibility to almost be able to touch the floor with my entire palm. This flexibility I have now lost. But also, it is true that I am not doing much stretching.
Side Effects
I feel fine. However, my left knee made a click when fully stretching it. Now this click has become a grinding sound when bending it.
Will post video soon.
Was it worth it?
Yes!
I think that in the end from the 5.5 cm I lengthened I only gained 4.5. But this small difference does make a big difference how I see myself and how other see me. A lot of people that were 1-3 cm taller than me are now 1-3 cm shorter than me, and it does make a difference in interaction. This has led to more confidence and thus improved the quality of my life.
Congratulations. Check my reply
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=5465.msg101116;topicseen#msg101116
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Congratulations. Check my reply
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=5465.msg101116;topicseen#msg101116
You are clearly a troll. If you can't spread your message without being rude and obnoxious on someone else's diary you are as good as a troll.
Thanks for the update helloworld. Your diary is one the best. Please ignore this guy.
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https://youtu.be/67RxzJlUHbU
video of thigh exercise.
Thigh circumference 59 cm.
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You are clearly a troll. If you can't spread your message without being rude and obnoxious on someone else's diary you are as good as a troll.
Thanks for the update helloworld. Your diary is one the best. Please ignore this guy.
Cool be cool. I said Congratulations to Helloworld. I'm happy he's doing fine (even if his nail failed. My nail didn't fail but I had other problems and I'm not happy with my LL experience. Everybody deserves both sides of the story, the good and the bad side
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Here my latest x-rays:
https://imgur.com/a/VnL2aCY
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Here my latest x-rays:
https://imgur.com/a/VnL2aCY
im totally new to this diary but i saw an earlier x-ray of yours: https://imgur.com/a/AJzCo (frontview, third pic) where the bones were misaligned.
and in the last x-ray the just consolidated like that.
do you know if you're going to have any problem with the hips or knees down the road becuase of this?
as for ur running video it looks really good. much better than the other i have seen on this forum. i suppose the shorter u distract the better recovery
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im totally new to this diary but i saw an earlier x-ray of yours: https://imgur.com/a/AJzCo (frontview, third pic) where the bones were misaligned.
Misaligned???
REally? I did not know about that. Please tell me more. Where do you see the misalignment?
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Misaligned???
REally? I did not know about that. Please tell me more. Where do you see the misalignment?
https://snag.gy/ojJqGW.jpg
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https://snag.gy/ojJqGW.jpg
It's indeed misaligned as with other Monegal patients (both tibia and femur). This can cause arthritis and other problems in the future. If the misalignment is severe you can also appreciate it from the outside
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Just checking in to say that everything is going well.
Have not been thinking about limb lengthening. The new height is totally normal, could not imagine being shorter than I am now.
Just have one knee make a sound when I bend it.
Also, flexibility is almost same but not 100%.
Running normally.
7 kg heavier than before but not more fat. So I assume the weight of the additional bone and muscle.
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Hope you're telling the truth about your case but I know your doctor had many bad cases, serious problems
Good luck
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Just checked the forum after almost a year.
It has been almost 4 years since I was operated.
Time flies.
Was reading OldiebutGoldie post about his experience, saying that you do not have to have an operation done to feel better and that he would not do it again.
For me, even thought I was one of the tallest patients, I would do it again, because the benefits clearly outweigh the costs.
Of course, now, though I would still like to be taller, I would not do an operation for it, because now I have no more burning desire to be taller. So it is like with money, those people with a lot of money will tell you that money cannot buy happiness, but in fact if you have no money, you will be considerably unhappier. Likewise those who are tall will tell you that you will not be happier due to height, but they forget how it feels if you are short.
I am more confident meeting new people in business and especially when it comes to the oposite gender.
I had no complications and do an average of 14,000 steps per day, and run fast.
Was it a good choice: YES!
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can you post a new sprinting video please?
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Hello community.
I have not been here for over 2 years.
Wanted to see how some of the people I knew where doing.
Update on me: Everything is normal, no complication. Still happy that I did the operation. Not a massive height difference but it did boost my confidence overall.