Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: LLSouthAmerica on January 14, 2017, 04:59:53 AM
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Hi everyone! I am a 22 year old medical student from South America, and I will be traveling to Milan on January 25th for the pre-op training with Dr. Guichet. I am starting this thread to contact any LimbLengthener currently in Milan, and also to answer any question you may have regarding the procedure or the post-op management. Please excuse my English! Good luck for everyone who has decided to embark on this journey. Stay safe.
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Cool congrats. Anything you'd be willing to share about yourself? How was it getting into contact with Guichet and figuring out LL?
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First tell us about which bone will you length, how much,if the fixador is internal or external! Thank you for sharing these informations
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First tell us about which bone will you length, how much,if the fixador is internal or external! Thank you for sharing these informations
I am sure he's going for femur with Guichet
Whats your initial height?
How much does the surgery cost in US$?
How many cm you want to achieve?
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Internal femurs. Starting height 166 cm. Goal: what my body can handle, realistically 7-8 cm. For the surgery you have to pay in 2 different bank accounts: 28000 euros (nail implants) 31000 GBP (surgery itself). You can do the math. Pre-op exams, medications, cardiac and dentist consultation are not included.
About getting in contact with Dr Guichet, it is very variable. The first time I wrote to him, I had to wait about 1 month for the response. (Dr Guichet said he had no secretary at the time). Then he always responded the following day. Now that almost all is planned (appointments in Milan, documents ,etc), the only thing I do not know is when the initial consultation will be. I wrote to him last week, but no answer yet. Does anyone know a way to reach Dr. Guichet other than his email?
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How is your flexibility, can you palm the floor with your legs straight?
When do you plan to have your surgery?
Why did you choose Milan over London, especially as you speak English?
Good luck, I appreciate you taking the time to write to us.
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Maybe its because he's from South America and he's better with Spanish?
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Maybe its because he's from South America and he's better with Spanish?
Actually, I'm pretty sure they speak Italian in Italy ;D
I can touch the floor with my legs straight (not the whole palm). My flexibility is average at best. After 30 days of pre-op training, I believe the surgery will take place late February or early March. London is overall a more expensive city, but the main reason is that I have a place to stay in Milan (distant relative) at least for a couple months. I speak a little Italian, at least enough to survive everyday life.
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Have you ever thought about LL Barcelona, Spain with Dr. Alejandro Monegal?
Total cost are here are around 36,000 euro total everything covered, which is almost half of what you pay.
And you get treated by one of the best surgeons in LL in the world (according to Wittenstein company),
and fitbone implant seems to be every bit as good if not better than Precise, Betz bone or Guichet nail.
Also, if you stay at recovery residence, you will be with other patients (including me) and can use the gym and pool right in the building and have 24 hours support from caretakers.
Only drawback: you will probably not improve your Italian that much.
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Aren't there many reports and diaries about fitbone malfunctioning? While I would've preferred a "cheaper" lengthening, it is a surgery with many risks, some of them permanent. I am not interested in being a pro athlete, but functionality is my number 1 priority. That being said, Paley and Guichet are living legends in the lengthening business. They have developed the procedure throughout the years, especially Paley who is very active in the scientific community (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27892743). There are plenty good doctors out there, but for this procedure, I want the best I can get.
You are lucky you get a gym and pool, and support from caretakers and fellow limb lengtheners! Post-op period is most important. Dr Guichet is also really stern about physical condition and training.
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Hi,
Does Dr Guichet use the same internal device as Dr Paley, the Precise 2. Dr Paley is just so expensive as to make it unrealistic. Any suggestions from everyone on other well thought of doctors that use the Precise 2?
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Hi,
Does Dr Guichet use the same internal device as Dr Paley, the Precise 2. Dr Paley is just so expensive as to make it unrealistic. Any suggestions from everyone on other well thought of doctors that use the Precise 2?
No, Dr. Guichet uses the albizia nail which he calls the gnail and drives a porsche. Wait....did I get it wrong?
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You cant say that the fitbone is as good, better or worse than the precice or any other nail for that matter without showing scientific articles supporting your claims...
Precice and fitbone sure are a step ahead of the albizzia and external frames (when lengthening the femurs) simply because they are much more modern.. Which one of the two is better, I searched over the web but couldnt find any comparable research done on the two.. What I did find was that the precice is far more used around the world than the fitbone though.
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Actually, I'm pretty sure they speak Italian in Italy ;D
I can touch the floor with my legs straight (not the whole palm). My flexibility is average at best.
Exactly, so how much can you touch the floor, with your legs straight?
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Dr Guichet uses an improved version of the Albizzia nail. Dr. Paley uses Precise 2, but he is not the only one. You can find many doctors who also have experience using Precise 2 and are much cheaper (although not as good as Dr. Paley I imagine). He is more expensive than Dr. Guichet.
"Precice and fitbone sure are a step ahead of the albizzia": I am not quite sure. Guichet claims his nail is full weight bearing but whether that is true remains to be seen (I'll tell you in one month!). However, I know for a fact (searched in Pubmed), all the articles about Precise 2 specify that it is only partial weight bearing. The Precise 2 has the most amount of research done among the new nails I believe and is FDA approved (better than Fitbone).
What I like about the Gnail is that I am allowed to walk and therefore notice if there is something wrong along the way, and immediately stop if that is the case.
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Dr Guichet uses an improved version of the Albizzia nail. Dr. Paley uses Precise 2, but he is not the only one. You can find many doctors who also have experience using Precise 2 and are much cheaper (although not as good as Dr. Paley I imagine). He is more expensive than Dr. Guichet.
"Precice and fitbone sure are a step ahead of the albizzia": I am not quite sure. Guichet claims his nail is full weight bearing but whether that is true remains to be seen (I'll tell you in one month!). However, I know for a fact (searched in Pubmed), all the articles about Precise 2 specify that it is only partial weight bearing. The Precise 2 has the most amount of research done among the new nails I believe and is FDA approved (better than Fitbone).
What I like about the Gnail is that I am allowed to walk and therefore notice if there is something wrong along the way, and immediately stop if that is the case.
I dont care what guichet claims. Neither what Paley or any other doc claims... I only look into scientific articles and paper. Guichet uses the Albizzia (there is nothing wrong with this fact btw) which is an old intramodullary nail.. His weight is more weightbaring because it is made from cobalt chrome (I think that's the material) unlike the precice or fitbone. The fact that he calls it Gnail instead of "more robust version of the albizzia" doesnt change the fact that it is still an albizzia nail. It can't go backwards (which is crucial in case of soft tissue limitations such as muscle spasm or extreme loss of range of motion, and also in case of joint contractures and subluxation) and also uses a "traumatic" way to lengthen (the clicking mechanism).. There is a reason (in my opinion) why the albizzia is no longer being used in any modern hospital in well developped countries.
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I dont care what guichet claims. Neither what Paley or any other doc claims... I only look into scientific articles and paper. Guichet uses the Albizzia (there is nothing wrong with this fact btw) which is an old intramodullary nail.. His weight is more weightbaring because it is made from cobalt chrome (I think that's the material) unlike the precice or fitbone. The fact that he calls it Gnail instead of "more robust version of the albizzia" doesnt change the fact that it is still an albizzia nail. It can't go backwards (which is crucial in case of soft tissue limitations such as muscle spasm or extreme loss of range of motion, and also in case of joint contractures and subluxation) and also uses a "traumatic" way to lengthen (the clicking mechanism).. There is a reason (in my opinion) why the albizzia is no longer being used in any modern hospital in well developped countries.
You should be wiser than to only look at scientific articles (many papers about LL I've read have methodological errors). There is not plenty of evidence about the Guichet Nail and since he is the only one who uses it, there may be a publication bias. I have read many cases of Precise patients who have a seemingly complication free lengthening ( no infections, minimal stiffness). However, when they start walking, they notice duck ass and ballerina feet. I agree with you that the "backwards" function of the Precise is a definite advantage. Nonetheless, since I will be in control of my lengthening and evaluate myself continuously from post op day 1 , I hope to notice before such soft tissue limitations take place and stop immediately if that is the case.
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Guichet is a living legend indeed and Guichet nail was one of the first.
But look at the picture on his website: http://www.leg-limb-stature-lengthening-taller-height-increase-cosmetic.eu/us/technology%20comparison%20with%20other%20internal%20lengthening%20nails.php
Baumgart was co-inventor. But he wanted to develop something better and therefore went to a German precision manufacturer to come develop the Fitbone, which by now has been around for like 10 years and has a very low failure rate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7DpXX8E2pY
About Monegal: he is less experienced than Guichet as he is in his early 40s. But I know he does more than 365 operations per year and has teams regularly come over to learn from him.
Do you really need 10,000 operations to be become the best?
In summary, I would say Dr. Guichet is like an iPhone 1, Dr. Monegal is like an iPhone 7 and additionally less expensive, which made the choice very easy for me.
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why do you think fitbone is superior to the Guichet nail? Is there full weight bearing with the fitbone? when can you walk without crutches during LL?
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About weight bearing as far as what I have read and heard there is not much difference between Precise, Betz, Guichet, Fitbone. The difference is how cautious they recommend you to be.
In terms of the superiority of Fitbone, I heared a long explanation, why Dr. Monegal, though being able to earn more with Precise, preferred Fitbone. However, best if you talk to the doctors themselves. Monegal and Guichet seem to be respond quite quickly.
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why do you think fitbone is superior to the Guichet nail? Is there full weight bearing with the fitbone? when can you walk without crutches during LL?
Is there full weight bearing with the Guichet's albizzia nail? He does claim so but all I've read through the diaries is that people would rather use the wheelchair to move around bcuz they can't tolerate the pain while walking. Also, while every fitbone user breezes past the clicking phase, Guichet's patients sound like they're being tortured to death. Monegals patients can walk unaided between 2 weeks to 1 month after the lengthning phase, depending on bone regeneration.
Im also a bit concerned about Takanori and Unicorn888 because they suddenly stopped updating their diaries.
I do think that precise and fitbone are one step ahead of Guichet's albizzia nail because his nail is simply outdated.
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I believe there is a bit too much propaganda about Dr. Monegal in the forum. The Fitbone is only partial weight bearing. Why would anyone choose Fitbone over Precise (FDA approved , much more research done)? I've read many cases about Fitbone malfunctioning, patients requiring multiple surgeries, etc. For Precise and GNail you only need 2.
About the difference in surgical skill, the learning curve is about numbers. Of course Dr. Paley and Dr. Guichet are better than Dr. Monegal. In my humble opinion, Dr Paley is a "extra safe" Iphone 7 , Dr. Guichet is a "weight-bearing , sportive" Iphone 7 and Dr. Monegal is that Chinese smart phone which in many cases is as successful as the others, but it's just not the same.
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I believe there is a bit too much propaganda about Dr. Monegal in the forum. The Fitbone is only partial weight bearing. Why would anyone choose Fitbone over Precise (FDA approved , much more research done)? I've read many cases about Fitbone malfunctioning, patients requiring multiple surgeries, etc. For Precise and GNail you only need 2.
About the difference in surgical skill, the learning curve is about numbers. Of course Dr. Paley and Dr. Guichet are better than Dr. Monegal. In my humble opinion, Dr Paley is a "extra safe" Iphone 7 , Dr. Guichet is a "weight-bearing , sportive" Iphone 7 and Dr. Monegal is that Chinese smart phone which in many cases is as successful as the others, but it's just not the same.
I don't know who you're trying to fool but their have been Precise and Gnail patients who required multiple surgeries as well. While I agree that precise is a good nail, Gnail can only be a stone age iphone 7.
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As I said, the main advantage of the Gnail is the weightbearing, but we can agree to disagree on that one. However, it is a fact that it is more likely that a Fitbone user requires more surgeries and the nail malfunctions more than the Precise.
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As I said, the main advantage of the Gnail is the weightbearing, but we can agree to disagree on that one. However, it is a fact that it is more likely that a Fitbone user requires more surgeries and the nail malfunctions more than the Precise.
Btw and even though we haven't had many precise diaries lately, I'd like to point out that the latest precise diary that we have in this forum reported a malfunction with 1 nail.
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Btw and even though we haven't had many precise diaries lately, I'd like to point out that the latest precise diary that we have in this forum reported a malfunction with 1 nail.
Of course I did not say Precise is infallible, merely that it is a safer bet than Fitbone. Also, I didn't say Dr. Monegal is a bad doctor, I merely highlighted that Dr. Guichet and Dr. Paley are much more experienced. In any case, this is a diary not a discussion board for a brand of nail or other. Neither is it a competition board among LL doctors. I will be having limb lengthening with Dr. Guichet and I intend to be 100% truthful about surgery and post op recovery.
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Of course I did not say Precise is infallible, merely that it is a safer bet than Fitbone. Also, I didn't say Dr. Monegal is a bad doctor, I merely highlighted that Dr. Guichet and Dr. Paley are much more experienced. In any case, this is a diary not a discussion board for a brand of nail or other. Neither is it a competition board among LL doctors. I will be having limb lengthening with Dr. Guichet and I intend to be 100% truthful about surgery and post op recovery.
I didn't even notice it was a diary until now lmao.
Good luck with your LL journey, stay safe.
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lol at all the marketing for dr monegal
hey LLsouthamerica- not a current LLer, but I also did the operation with dr guichet in milan back in 2015 so feel free to message me if you ever need any advice
since you're doing the pre op training, I'd recommend not only training hard for that month, but also to see the sights and enjoy any other touristy things too while you can. it was so much harder to do those things after the surgery. best of luck!
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funny how its only monegal's patients who praise him that much in an almost childish fashion... This and the fact there isnt a single monegal's diary on old forum adds alot of suspition.... I will not even talk about cooper's case and MM's hiding the fact she was not ok for months...
Tell monegal to stop sending you guys for marketing... Its just sad
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funny how its only monegal's patients who praise him that much in an almost childish fashion... This and the fact there isnt a single monegal's diary on old forum adds alot of suspition.... I will not even talk about cooper's case and MM's hiding the fact she was not ok for months...
Tell monegal to stop sending you guys for marketing... Its just sad
Exactly! I can honestly say I would not have surgery with Dr. Monegal even if someone else way paying for it. The horrible results of Cooper & Musicmaker are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Dr. Monegal. As with icebergs the majority of it is underneath the waterline where you can't see it. For every disaster like Cooper & Musicmaker there are likely 4-5 other patients we will never know about who are ruined for life.
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funny how its only monegal's patients who praise him that much in an almost childish fashion... This and the fact there isnt a single monegal's diary on old forum adds alot of suspition.... I will not even talk about cooper's case and MM's hiding the fact she was not ok for months...
Tell monegal to stop sending you guys for marketing... Its just sad
If you're talking about me let me tell you that in 1 post you have mentioned Monegal's name more than I've done in this entire thread and I only mentioned his name to answer a question.
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Changing the topic... I'm meeting Dr Guichet January 26th. Does anyone have any questions (regarding the lengthening, post-op or nail itself) that you would like to ask Dr. Guichet? For example, I'm gonna ask him what to do when you "lengthened too much" and have reduced range of motion, or other complication since the Guichet Nail can't go backwards as TIBIKE200 said.
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I was an avid reader of Unicorn diary and now she does not write anymore, and latest news was not so good.
So would be great if you could ask him about her and maybe be put in touch with her.
On a separate note: It seems you have done a lot of research of LL and about which doctor to go to.
One thing that I did, is find the worst case patients of the doctor and talk to them. Maybe you already have done, but just in case not I would recommend it.
For example, in case of Dr. Monegal the worst case patient I could find was "musicmaker". When "musicmaker" told me about the complications but still recommended Dr. Monegal as one of the best surgeons, I became convinced this must be true.
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Changing the topic... I'm meeting Dr Guichet January 26th. Does anyone have any questions (regarding the lengthening, post-op or nail itself) that you would like to ask Dr. Guichet? For example, I'm gonna ask him what to do when you "lengthened too much" and have reduced range of motion, or other complication since the Guichet Nail can't go backwards as TIBIKE200 said.
Ask him about the price in Milan
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Ask him about the price in Milan
I answered that question earlier. For the surgery you have to pay in 2 different bank accounts: 28000 euros (nail implants) 31000 GBP (surgery itself). You can do the math. Pre-op exams, medications, cardiac and dentist consultation are not included.
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Please stop advertising for Dr. Monegal in this thread. Thank you!
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They're hijacking your thread. They should be banned.
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The more I read on this forum the more confused I get. I just wanted to comment on the statement that the skill of a surgeon is all about numbers. Of course , within common sense parameters, this is true but be careful about assuming that more surgeries equals superior surgeon. I had back surgery a few years ago. I was lucky, a guy who worked in the same part of the country was doing my procedure at the same time and was later taken to court for crippling people.
Thankfully I hadn't chosen to go with him. He got greedy, took on far too many surgeries per year and it turned out that he was relying on alcohol because of stress and was unfit to do his job. He was well known and as far as I know highly regarded, he just got too sure of himself and thought he could do whatever he wanted.The scary thing was that the staff around him were concerned but because of the culture of medicine didn't feel that they could whistleblow. Surgeons are gods!!
If I had gone by surgery numbers I dread to think how my mobility would be now. The other thing that was interesting was that this guy had a great bedside manner, the doctor I went with I found very hard to like as he was very cold and to the point. In the end I wanted his skills not his friendship but I can't say it wasn't hard . Both skills and bedside manner would be the ideal.
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I was justed stating my opinion, trying to be helpful.
You have posted on my diary and I enjoyed your posts!
So from my diary you must know that I am not saying everything is 100% perfect and that my final judgement on Fitbone and Wittenstein company is still out.
But so far, and after having gotten so much more information over the last 2 months from other patients, I am confdent that I made the right choice with Dr. Monegal and Fitbone.
But, I will stop posting here.
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I apologise if I caused any offence, I wasn't even thinking about your particular surgeon when I posted and nor was I saying that your point about numbers of surgeries was wrong. I was trying to warn that there are lots of other things that have to be looked at than the upfront number. I For instance I think Dr Pariwar sounds great but it makes me nervous that he hasn't had a lot of experience with Precise 2.
Spain, in fact, would be a great choice for me and I am trying to keep an open mind and following your journey with interest, and I am very grateful to anyone who puts in the effort to share their journey when I'm sure they have a lot of other things to deal with.
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Col92, precice is a nail, if a doctor knows how to insert a nail, there is not much problem(he has done tons of nailings). That is surgery easier that for example an Ilizarov surgery or Ilizarov+nail(LON).
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Yes I agree, and I did think that his experience with other nails counts for a lot. To be honest I think reading so much on this forum about the pros and cons for different doctors starts to make you look for reasons to cross them off the list to try to narrow it down.
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Hi everyone. I arrived to Milan 2 days. Today I met Dr. Guichet and the anesthesiologist. Dr Guichet definitely knows what he is doing. He is very rigorous about all the pre op preparation (training and exams). When he evaluated me, he noticed that I had some orthopedic problems with my knees which unfortunately will limit my lengthening to 6 - 7 CM. He asked me to take an additional exam: a CT of my knees. I will also have to answer a very long "Motivation letter" which more or less requires to explain your reasons for having the procedure and how you will face the consequences of this decision; and also a PreOp Agreement, where he asks your opinion on the many risks and possible situations that may happen. Finally, I had the opportunity to meet 2 of his patients. They were both at about 1 month but were completely different in their lengthening. One had no pain and finished his lengthening in 45 days and the other one had moderate to severe pain with some difficulty to "click".
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Hi everyone. I arrived to Milan 2 days. Today I met Dr. Guichet and the anesthesiologist. Dr Guichet definitely knows what he is doing. He is very rigorous about all the pre op preparation (training and exams). When he evaluated me, he noticed that I had some orthopedic problems with my knees which unfortunately will limit my lengthening to 6 - 7 CM. He asked me to take an additional exam: a CT of my knees. I will also have to answer a very long "Motivation letter" which more or less requires to explain your reasons for having the procedure and how you will face the consequences of this decision; and also a PreOp Agreement, where he asks your opinion on the many risks and possible situations that may happen. Finally, I had the opportunity to meet 2 of his patients. They were both at about 1 month but were completely different in their lengthening. One had no pain and finished his lengthening in 45 days and the other one had moderate to severe pain with some difficulty to "click".
Can you ask Dr Guichet the following questions?
1) why so many patients have problems clicking?? pain level too high or just mental??
2) like the case of unicorn who got a fracture, is that because Dr guichet is sometimes too over confident with his nail?? and sometimes is not cautious enough?? too rude (violent) with patients ?? push them too hard?? forcing them to click with the risk to break something??
3) seems there is a risk of the nail bending if you are not cautious with it?? what would Dr Guichet do if the nail bend?? another operation to replace it??
4) why many years ago some of his patients can walk unaided 2 weeks after operation and now you have to use a walker??
5) how many flexibility exactly do you need to do for example 8cm and not finish with duck ass??
thanks
by the way when is your operation?
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Can you ask Dr Guichet the following questions?
1) why so many patients have problems clicking?? pain level too high or just mental??
2) like the case of unicorn who got a fracture, is that because Dr guichet is sometimes too over confident with his nail?? and sometimes is not cautious enough?? too rude (violent) with patients ?? push them too hard?? forcing them to click with the risk to break something??
3) seems there is a risk of the nail bending if you are not cautious with it?? what would Dr Guichet do if the nail bend?? another operation to replace it??
4) why many years ago some of his patients can walk unaided 2 weeks after operation and now you have to use a walker??
5) how many flexibility exactly do you need to do for example 8cm and not finish with duck ass??
thanks
by the way when is your operation?
1) From what I've seen, most of the patients who have problems clicking, have too much pain and are more likely to miss rehab / stop walking because of it. Will ask him that!
2) Maybe you can rephrase that...
3) Will ask him that
4) According to the patients I have talked with, they only use the walker the first few days. Afterwards, you only use crutches.
5) Will ask him that
My operation will be at the end of February hopefully
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hi south america!!
so if I understood you are starting preOP training in Milan?? how much does the preOP training cost?? is it one month training or two months??
my last 2) question was : a patient from this from named Unicorn (you can read her journal) got a bone fractured/broken during LL maybe because Dr Guichet asked her to do too many clicks... because Dr Guichet has a very army-general like personality and he always pushes his patients to go over the pain is there a risk that sometimes he misjudge the conditions and ask a patients to do too much (like too many clicks) which cause injuries?? I would like to know how he would react to that question
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I will be following your diary closely. I'm also South American living in the US around the same age. Dr Guichet would be one of my top choices but he's quite expensive. I'm surprised you being a medical student and 22yo can afford him, unless you have support from parents of course. Good luck and hope the process goes smooth for you.
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hi south america!!
so if I understood you are starting preOP training in Milan?? how much does the preOP training cost?? is it one month training or two months??
my last 2) question was : a patient from this from named Unicorn (you can read her journal) got a bone fractured/broken during LL maybe because Dr Guichet asked her to do too many clicks... because Dr Guichet has a very army-general like personality and he always pushes his patients to go over the pain is there a risk that sometimes he misjudge the conditions and ask a patients to do too much (like too many clicks) which cause injuries?? I would like to know how he would react to that question
Actually, the preOP training is included in the estimate I wrote before. Yes basically, preOP training and appointments (xray, blood tests, psychiatrist assessment, etc). The training is supposed to make you increase your strength by 30% according to CYBEX testing, therefore it is a one month training that may be extended if you are lazy. During that time you learn about the post op management and also do stretching and crutches/walker training.
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Good luck with the training LLSouthAmerica.
I contacted Guichet last week as I would like to have an op with him next year, so I'll definitely be following your progress.
Do you have any intention of doing Tibias after your Femurs? Or are you just going to wait and see? One thing I am curious about is whether Guichet offers any 'package deal' to do both segments (in 2 ops over time).
Cheers,
Chard.
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You shouldn't tibs with him . Precise nail seems way more easy for this . Stay safe and good luck .
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Hi llsouthamerica
Prices can be negotiated? He told me ￡52000
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great stuff , when are you going ?
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I don't know if prices can be negotiated. The idea never crossed my mind. I had my surgery 3 days ago. The pain is manageable but limits my mobility, I am on paracetamol IV and it works very well.
First day: Vomited 20 times or more, I think they overdid it with the morphine because I wasn't feeling ANY pain. After all my suffering they put me on naloxone which is a opiod antagonist and then ondasetron. This made it impossible to stand up and do bike on the first day. Did my first 3 clicks easily.
Second day: Little pain without movement, lot of pain with movement but tolerable. Did 6 clicks, 3 in the morning and 3 in the afternoon and a lot of stretching. I did 45 minutes on bike and also walk, went up and down 3 stairs. I believe I have an increased response to opiod since that day I felt dizzy and tired every time I sited or walked.
Third day: Clicked 3 times in the morning, moderate pain that eases with paracetamol, but no pain if I don't move my legs. Did a little bike, stretching and walking. Also basic stuff like going to the bathroom, eating while sitting in a chair. It's hard but I hope it gets easier later
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Your reaction may be due to the anesthetic during surgery. How much have you lengthened thus far? I believe Guichet distracts an amount during surgery.
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yes ask for a paper with data for how many is back to 100 life. and if he have any people you can ask about there LL with him
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Your reaction may be due to the anesthetic during surgery. How much have you lengthened thus far? I believe Guichet distracts an amount during surgery.
Yes it was an inhanced reaction to the morphine. I hated it. Today is my post op 6 and I am 1.5 cm taller. This week almost all the patients I met a month before when I arrived for the pre op training are leaving and starting to walk without crutches. The best case I saw, in 55 days post Op he was walking with almost no gait abnormalities. Lucky him. I hope to be like him.
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hi south america!!
so if I understood you are starting preOP training in Milan?? how much does the preOP training cost?? is it one month training or two months??
my last 2) question was : a patient from this from named Unicorn (you can read her journal) got a bone fractured/broken during LL maybe because Dr Guichet asked her to do too many clicks... because Dr Guichet has a very army-general like personality and he always pushes his patients to go over the pain is there a risk that sometimes he misjudge the conditions and ask a patients to do too much (like too many clicks) which cause injuries?? I would like to know how he would react to that question
Firstly, Guichet is God. He'll never admit he's done anything wrong. So it will always be the patient's fault.
Secondly, yes, there are more stories that are not reported for ALL the docs because patients become fearful of their very own doctors for reasons like... they still need them to repair them, or they think they still need them to remove nails later. So all patients walk on eggshells. Welcome to the stockholm syndrome and being held hostage for a king's ransom if you do not want to remain crippled.
So these days, docs do get away with murder or acting like God. So be very careful which devil with whom you're making a deal. That's the lesson I've learnt after speaking to many silent patients.
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Firstly, Guichet is God. He'll never admit he's done anything wrong. So it will always be the patient's fault.
Secondly, yes, there are more stories that are not reported for ALL the docs because patients become fearful of their very own doctors for reasons like... they still need them to repair them, or they think they still need them to remove nails later. So all patients walk on eggshells. Welcome to the stockholm syndrome and being held hostage for a king's ransom if you do not want to remain crippled.
So these days, docs do get away with murder or acting like God. So be very careful which devil with whom you're making a deal. That's the lesson I've learnt after speaking to many silent patients.
Care to elaborate? Many silent patients of which doctor?
Also, you shouldn't feel hostage of anyone. Many LL patients went back to their home countries to get "repaired" by docs who specialize in LL and are not doing it for cosmetic reasons. One of them is bigfaker who wrote about getting treatment for a LL gone wrong in india with Saringari with a doc in the states (Not Paley, Mahboubian or Rozbruch)
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Well looks like what notimportant was saying is not foolish as it common sense that would occur.
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Firstly, Guichet is God. He'll never admit he's done anything wrong. So it will always be the patient's fault.
Secondly, yes, there are more stories that are not reported for ALL the docs because patients become fearful of their very own doctors for reasons like... they still need them to repair them, or they think they still need them to remove nails later. So all patients walk on eggshells. Welcome to the stockholm syndrome and being held hostage for a king's ransom if you do not want to remain crippled.
So these days, docs do get away with murder or acting like God. So be very careful which devil with whom you're making a deal. That's the lesson I've learnt after speaking to many silent patients.
This just further validates my numerous concerns with Guichet and his methods. I think it's time he is no longer mentioned with the likes of Paley, Rozbruch and Baumgart.
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I'm also concerned about how Dr Guichet chooses his patients. I've seen him operate a TALL (more than 1.84) man undoubtedly more than 50 years old. As Unicorn is Asian and female, these are 2 risk factors for bad bone consolidation. I don't know the details but if he made the same fast lengthening as in his other patients. That would have been very unwise of him.
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I am a silent one. What Unicorn said, its true. During my LL, I have witnessed lots of bad staff. You must prepare extra money for the possibility that things go wrong and things do go wrong. I also saw one leg which got Compartment Syndrome due to negligence of one doctor. Very scary, he nearly lost the leg and if not caught on time maybe he would have lost his life too. Its rare but it can happen. I will only add that it was in Germany. and yes, the doc is a God and of course, it was not his fault.
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Of course I'm right. Many silent patients not registered here or just logged and read and say nothing but some had terrible outcomes due to doctor negligence and they Stockholm syndrome and sy nothing
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It is very important for us as a community to learn the true face of limb lengthening, to identify ourselves as a high risk or low risk patient and to make a decision based on facts. For the moment, I as a patient will tell you what I've been through without lies!
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I agree with Unicorn and notimportant.
If something goes wrong it would be kind of hard to talk about it in a public forum.
Luckily for me everything went OK so far, so I just tell the truth in my diary.
If something goes wrong and the doctor reacts well, like in my case, with the implant failure, a patient can openly share it. But if the doctor does not react well, then what do you do, write the negative truth, or keep quiet?
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It is very important for us as a community to learn the true face of limb lengthening, to identify ourselves as a high risk or low risk patient and to make a decision based on facts. For the moment, I as a patient will tell you what I've been through without lies!
What's a high risk or low risk patient? How do you determine that?
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Helloword. I believe you should tell the hard truth, for the sake of everyone else and what is just.
Yyes. From what I understand, risks factors for bad lengthening are age, female, no physical activity, anything that alters bone quality, poor elasticity, high target (more than 6 cm) etc.
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Helloworld your doctor is famous for bad results and bad reactions to posts in this forum and I have proofs from many people. Your nail failed and you had many surgeries but you are OK now, right? But what about Musicmaker after 3 years? She hasn't recovered yet. Fitbone and your doctor have ruined some people's lives including Cooper, Musicmaker, the teenage guy, the American guy? and many others. There are bad cases in other German and French doctors but in Spain it's worse and the system doesn't protect you from negligences.
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Helloworld your doctor is famous for bad results and bad reactions to posts in this forum and I have proofs from many people. Your nail failed and you had many surgeries but you are OK now, right? But what about Musicmaker after 3 years? She hasn't recovered yet. Fitbone and your doctor have ruined some people's lives including Cooper, Musicmaker, the teenage guy, the American guy? and many others. There are bad cases in other German and French doctors but in Spain it's worse and the system doesn't protect you from negligences.
This is a clone account of a banned user. Why he isn't getting banned again?
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Helloworld your doctor is famous for bad results and bad reactions to posts in this forum and I have proofs from many people. Your nail failed and you had many surgeries but you are OK now, right? But what about Musicmaker after 3 years? She hasn't recovered yet. Fitbone and your doctor have ruined some people's lives including Cooper, Musicmaker, the teenage guy, the American guy? and many others. There are bad cases in other German and French doctors but in Spain it's worse and the system doesn't protect you from negligences.
I'm not Lluser
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/568890a50f2421bd0714d13a771a6839/tumblr_mx281sDunv1qjw6ido1_250.gif)
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Helloworld your doctor is famous for bad results and bad reactions to posts in this forum and I have proofs from many people. Your nail failed and you had many surgeries but you are OK now, right? But what about Musicmaker after 3 years? She hasn't recovered yet. Fitbone and your doctor have ruined some people's lives including Cooper, Musicmaker, the teenage guy, the American guy? and many others. There are bad cases in other German and French doctors but in Spain it's worse and the system doesn't protect you from negligences.
This guy is like a broken record.
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Helloword. I believe you should tell the hard truth, for the sake of everyone else and what is just.
Yyes. From what I understand, risks factors for bad lengthening are age, female, no physical activity, anything that alters bone quality, poor elasticity, high target (more than 6 cm) etc.
I am 5'8, play soccer regularly and am looking to add 2 inches. My biggest fear is death and amputation. Thank you for giving me peace of mind. Lol
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Helloworld your doctor is famous for bad results and bad reactions to posts in this forum and I have proofs from many people. Your nail failed and you had many surgeries but you are OK now, right? But what about Musicmaker after 3 years? She hasn't recovered yet. Fitbone and your doctor have ruined some people's lives including Cooper, Musicmaker, the teenage guy, the American guy? and many others. There are bad cases in other German and French doctors but in Spain it's worse and the system doesn't protect you from negligences.
First of all Spain is in EU like Germany, France etc so you can go to courts of EU if the courts of Spain doesn't protect you (which I don't believe as it is a first world country with serious courts).
And secondly, you keep mentioning how bad is Monegal in every of your posts.
Where is Guichet better tham Monegal in your opinion?
He charges about the double money from Monegal and he uses an obsolete nail compared to fitbone, so his prices are way worse than Monegal's.
He also had a lot of bad cases like unicorns and generally he suggests a very fast lengthening rate (1mm per day) and allows many times for lengthenings like 9-10 cm which is too much for any patient in one segment, while Monegal had some bad cases too but generally he suggests lengthening at a slower rate and doesn't allow lengthening more than 8 cm (after all fitbone can't go more than that).
So Not important, you keep tellimg us tha Monegal is a bad doctor and you have some points, although I don't think that from all the diaries of his patients I read that I agree with you.
Tell us now about Guichet. Taken in mind the ridiculous prices he charges and the many bad outcomes of his patients we've seen (where he never admits any fault of his), what is your opinion about him?
Is he a better doctor compared to Monegal, and why?
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I do NOT absolutely support or make publicity for Dr Guichet. I believe he lacks a lot in patient care. The only points I have to say is: I weight bear from day 1, I use a walker and after that I wear crutches. Weight bearing is thought to improve bone healing (you can read the papers in pubmed). The second thing is that I've seen patients who started lengthening while I was doing the pre training, and are now walking without crutches, with minimal-none gait problems (less than 60 days post op for 6 cm). However I won't compare doctors, simply because I don't know Dr Monegal. I didn't even take him into consideration while making this decision.
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Today is my 12th day post op: Basically my days are PT in the morning and PT in the afternoon with clicks 3 times a day. I feel stiffness when I stay in the same position for 15 minutes, or when i fall asleep. Pain is minimum to moderate but I take Paracetamol 400 mg + Tramadol 37.5 mg 3 times a day. Only complications is that I have a little duck ass that I can correct if I want to, and split legs.
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How much have you lengthened thus far LLSouthAmerica and what do you mean by split legs? Your pain sounds manageable, is the condition you are in different from how you imagined it would be?
Thanks.
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Hi 682. I'm around 2.7 cm now. I mean that my IT bands are stiff and try to pull my legs apart (as in a wider stand). Sorry if I'm not explaining myself correctly. Today I began to use crutches but still feel like they are unstable so I favor the walker. Not at all, it is exactly as I imagined. However, I'm very nervous about the future. My first control X ray is in 3 days.
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Yes it was an inhanced reaction to the morphine. I hated it. Today is my post op 6 and I am 1.5 cm taller. This week almost all the patients I met a month before when I arrived for the pre op training are leaving and starting to walk without crutches. The best case I saw, in 55 days post Op he was walking with almost no gait abnormalities. Lucky him. I hope to be like him.
Do you have an idea how much he lengthened? I mean the guy who walk normally just 55 days post operation?
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He lengthened 6 cm, apparently it is the lucky number for us Dr Guichet's patients. According to him, he still walks like a penguin (side to side) but I don't notice it much. He already returned to his country.
Today I took the Xrays 15 days post OP and there is bone formation! Only one month missing to be finally free of this madness!
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I posted wrong, sorry!!
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Post Op day 21: I feel some numbness in my left leg. I am already bored with this: Physiotherapy every day at morning, at evening. Last saturday we went to the pool. I also started to do elliptical. I'm 3.5 cm now.
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Post Op day 21: I feel some numbness in my left leg. I am already bored with this: Physiotherapy every day at morning, at evening. Last saturday we went to the pool. I also started to do elliptical. I'm 3.5 cm now.
Pool? Im not sure I would be comfortable with swimming at that point.. Do you have to?
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Pool? Im not sure I would be comfortable with swimming at that point.. Do you have to?
I mean, you are an adult... you can do what you want. But why wouldn't you? It's the only fun I've had for weeks... Since the pool handles all your weight you can be free without worrying about "bending the needle", "breaking another bone" etc
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I think I would rather stay in bed and sleep lol
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I think I would rather stay in bed and sleep lol
Most of us can't sleep properly so that's not an option for us. Also, what's the point of having a weight bearing nail if you don't bear weight. Finally, if you stay motionless, you feel stiffness and over time you'll have reduced range of motion.
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Day 30 post op. Nerve paresthesia is still there though is low in intensity. Pain is bearable, low-mid intensity and resolves with analgesic. Still a little pelvic tilt (duckass), I worry that it may cause me back problems afterwords. I am 4.3 cm. Today I took x rays
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I'm trying but can't upload the x rays
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Day 30 post op. Nerve paresthesia is still there though is low in intensity. Pain is bearable, low-mid intensity and resolves with analgesic. Still a little pelvic tilt (duckass), I worry that it may cause me back problems afterwords. I am 4.3 cm. Today I took x rays
LLSOuth do you consider Nerve paresthesia as a minor complication or its normal in LLer's mind?
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LLSOuth do you consider Nerve paresthesia as a minor complication or its normal in LLer's mind?
To tell the truth when I started feeling paresthesia, I considered stopping lengthening. I even reduced the number of clicks and started taking vitamin B12 supplementation. The doctor assured me it is normal and very far from paralysis. Still, I was not satisfied and wanted to do an electromyography. After speaking with a lot of past patients, they all told me they felt numbness, electricity, stabbing , some in the same region as I. They all told me it stopped days after lengthening. Nowadays, the paresthesia is still there but not painful.
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Day 30 post op. Nerve paresthesia is still there though is low in intensity. Pain is bearable, low-mid intensity and resolves with analgesic. Still a little pelvic tilt (duckass), I worry that it may cause me back problems afterwords. I am 4.3 cm. Today I took x rays
How much are you lengthening a day? You say you did a x rays 4.3 seems like a lot for 30 days.
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Immediately after surgery I increased 1 cm, then in the 2nd week I was at a rate of 1.3mm/day. 3rd week, 1 mm/day and since this week 0.6 mm/day. There was a time during which I increased 1 cm in less than 10 days. For my last 2 cm it will take about 3-4 weeks.
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Immediately after surgery I increased 1 cm, then in the 2nd week I was at a rate of 1.3mm/day. 3rd week, 1 mm/day and since this week 0.6 mm/day. There was a time during which I increased 1 cm in less than 10 days. For my last 2 cm it will take about 3-4 weeks.
1 cm in one go dam they probably did give you a lot of morphine then to block that pain.
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1 cm in one go dam they probably did give you a lot of morphine then to block that pain.
Yes they did put me a lot. So much I didn't feel any pain the first day, but instead I puked every 5 minutes. They had to antagonize the morphine. The first 3 days I had paracetamol IV 1 gr every 8 hours and it worked perfectly. Pain was 4/10 at most. Afterwards, pain was moderate but reduced a lot with painkillers.
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Day 40 post op: I'm 5 cm now, at a rate of 0.5 mm/day. I've started to walk on crutches alternating each leg. I'm already exhausted by the pain, boredom, immobility and worry a lot about life after lengthening. I want to start rehab post lengthening already.
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How much more do you want to add?
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at one point I wanted 6,5 or 7. But I will stay at 6 cm at most. With this rate I would end April 30th
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Seems that your LL is going smoothly! That is great!
I think it makes a lot of sense to have a rate of 1.2 mm/day at first and then decrease to 0.5mm/day! Is that what Dr. Guichet advises?
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Seems that your LL is going smoothly! That is great!
I think it makes a lot of sense to have a rate of 1.2 mm/day at first and then decrease to 0.5mm/day! Is that what Dr. Guichet advises?
You say smoothly and here I am complaining about everything hahah. Yes you have a rate of 1.2 or 1.3 mm I don't remember for almost 2 weeks then 1 mm for 2 weeks. So you reach 4 cm really fast then it gets really slower: almost two weeks for 1 cm from 5 to 6, 6 to 7
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It's always encouraging to see another LL patient having a succeful experience. Is there any chance you can post your x rays so we can compare? You can see mines in my diary. I've been lengthening my 2nd leg at a rate of 0.81mm a day since I was operated and I intend to keep it that way until I reach my goal. To be honest, I've no idea how you feel no pain by lengthening at 1.2mm a day!
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I would not call it successful yet. I'm still not walking normally, for me it's most important to be back close to 100% than the amount of gain. At 5 cm I see my leg much longer and feel much taller (though not in European standards unfortunately). I tried to upload the x rays but it said it weighted too much, I don't know. I don't know for me I always felt a psychological relief by reducing the clicks haha. I did feel pain at 1.2 mm, but I took paracetamol 1 gr 3 times a day it was very little ( but with meds. Only recently I've stopped taking pain killers .
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Yes, 5cm is a major difference, I wouldn't advise you going much further. Just upload it like any other image and post the link here.
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Apparently 15 clicks is more than 1 mm, so I'm actually a little bit more than 5, maybe 5.2. I will not surpass 6 cm, and I'll stop very soon for the sake of my mental health. These are my x rays: 15 days post op and 30 days post op
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lrwaz7622dc1pnu/AAAetbPpMAAC2kzqjp9zaI9ia?dl=0
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Good x-rays! Good thing you're stopping soon, I think you'll have a very good recovery as well. Rooting for you.
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Thanks! I hope for you the same and also for everyone doing this kind of surgery. I would have posted a video of me doing bike or elliptical or walking alternating legs with crutches, but unfortunately all of them have my face on them hahah
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I'm about 5.3 cm now. The doctor has heard my prayers and has allowed me to walk without crutches 1 hour per day and infinite with crutches. Took my first steps, they look so weird haha with a very little duckass. So slow and unnatural
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Though I still have to make up my mind about dr Guichet, I absolutely love the nail. I am walking 1 week and a half before the end of my lengthening with no pain. I feel like I lost balance and I have a little duckass but otherwise I feel like walking wil be normal in no time. It has also cured me of my nervous breakdown 1 week ago. This surgery really makes you appreciate the little things. Walking is everything !!
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Though I still have to make up my mind about dr Guichet, I absolutely love the nail. I am walking 1 week and a half before the end of my lengthening with no pain. I feel like I lost balance and I have a little duckass but otherwise I feel like walking wil be normal in no time. It has also cured me of my nervous breakdown 1 week ago. This surgery really makes you appreciate the little things. Walking is everything !!
You're doing very well just be careful with your steps
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I am very close to normal but you are right. Until I finish lenghtening I will keep walking without crutches to a minimum. I won't fk up everything by being reckless.
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I am very close to normal but you are right. Until I finish lenghtening I will keep walking without crutches to a minimum. I won't fk up everything by being reckless.
you said there's pain, is it manageable or its screw your say? Anyways 7 cm in femur is great and worth the price. Tell us about your update everyday, its an interesting diary. Good luck
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The other guys I knew weirdly enough had more pain during the first week and no pain after the first month. For me it was moderate from beginning and a little nowadays. Particularly i feel pain in the hamstring while sitting on a hard chair, it's annoying but calms after getting to another position. Very manageable.
I won't do 7 cm because it would mean another 2 weeks and more risks. I feel like I'm in the casino, I've achieved a lot and I can't wait to take my winnings and GTFO. I'll stop at 6 cm.
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The other guys I knew weirdly enough had more pain during the first week and no pain after the first month. For me it was moderate from beginning and a little nowadays. Particularly i feel pain in the hamstring while sitting on a hard chair, it's annoying but calms after getting to another position. Very manageable.
I won't do 7 cm because it would mean another 2 weeks and more risks. I feel like I'm in the casino, I've achieved a lot and I can't wait to take my winnings and GTFO. I'll stop at 6 cm.
great, nothing left just hold. How many months after finish lengthening you think you can walk normally? 3? 6? a year.....etc
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Even now I walk close to normal. I think 1 month maybe 2 tops (just for walking I don't mean going upstairs much less run,etc) and I'm not being optimistic. I was careful during my lengthening and I think it paid off.
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Even now I walk close to normal. I think 1 month maybe 2 tops (just for walking I don't mean going upstairs much less run,etc) and I'm not being optimistic. I was careful during my lengthening and I think it paid off.
How do you walk now almost normal?! you didn't finish the first stage and still lengthening?! is it because of full weight- barring that you believe you are almost normal?
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I will finish next week. Dr Guichet allowed me to walk without crutches so I can tell how my gait is. It's because even now I don't walk with a limp or, duckass. I only look stiff, a little robotic. You wouldn't think I had surgery or anything, you would think I'm walking funny for show.
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I will finish next week. Dr Guichet allowed me to walk without crutches so I can tell how my gait is. It's because even now I don't walk with a limp or, duckass. I only look stiff, a little robotic. You wouldn't think I had surgery or anything, you would think I'm walking funny for show.
Great update, just don't disappear like others. We stand here for you, if you done then try to recover and give a weekly or monthly update.
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Bad news, I had forgotten I also had to correct a mild leg discrepancy (I knew I had it from childhood), and I thought it was nothing because the tests I did here only said "minimal discrepancy". But apparently, it is a 1 cm difference so I will stay here to mid May clicking only my left leg.
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It also means that without me wanting it I will do a 7 cm lengthening. I worry about recovery I didn't want to exceed 6 cm.
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Bad news, I had forgotten I also had to correct a mild leg discrepancy (I knew I had it from childhood), and I thought it was nothing because the tests I did here only said "minimal discrepancy". But apparently, it is a 1 cm difference so I will stay here to mid May clicking only my left leg.
Its not a bad news at all, just do it, Two birds with one stone
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There is a lot of people with discrepancies up to 2 cm who do about the same life as the rest, perhaps some little back pain and minor scoliosis because of the compensation of your body. I figure if I already did it for cosmetics i might benefit a little medically. Of course it means i will stay 2 more weeks. Respect to the people who can handle being without walking for so much time and specially very far from your home country.
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There is a lot of people with discrepancies up to 2 cm who do about the same life as the rest, perhaps some little back pain and minor scoliosis because of the compensation of your body. I figure if I already did it for cosmetics i might benefit a little medically. Of course it means i will stay 2 more weeks. Respect to the people who can handle being without walking for so much time and specially very far from your home country.
Its really difficult to be a lone during surgery, i feel you dear.
1- Did you tell your family about the surgery or you make it secret like the most? If its secret what you gonna tell them when they see you?
How do you walk now? how many percent normal?
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Pretty tough.
My close family knows because my parents are paying for surgery but not the rest of my family. I used to wear high shoes (at least 4-5cm) but for some reason I look/feel like I am much taller now than with the shoes (which is weird because I've lengthened only 6 cm). People will definitely notice I'm much taller now. I'll just tell them it's in their heads because I've been in Europe for so long.
Since I didn't finish lengthening until later today I've been very lazy about walking so still the same 70% because of a little stiffness and a little duck ass (only noticeable after I've been seated for a long time).
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Pretty tough.
My close family knows because my parents are paying for surgery but not the rest of my family. I used to wear high shoes (at least 4-5cm) but for some reason I look/feel like I am much taller now than with the shoes (which is weird because I've lengthened only 6 cm). People will definitely notice I'm much taller now. I'll just tell them it's in their heads because I've been in Europe for so long.
Since I didn't finish lengthening until later today I've been very lazy about walking so still the same 70% because of a little stiffness and a little duck ass (only noticeable after I've been seated for a long time).
good stuff, Do you think 6 cm is noticeable? many people did LL and fool their parents as its in their head, how to fool someone with a noticeable thing?
And about walking 70%, do you walk and go to stores and restaurants like a normal guy at this stage? does people notice something wrong with your walking?
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People aren't stupid. When someone notices you're two inches taller they won't just think it's in their head. Especially if they were close to your original height. This surgery is hard to hide to family members and friends no matter what you say. I say you should tell your immediate family, but probably not others unless you trust them.
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Even 3 cm was noticeable! 6 cm is impossible to mask, especially if you are in the little less than average /average height. Because of the bell like distribution of height , small increases will make you surpass a lot of The population. Perhaps a dwarf of 135 cm who goes to 140cm may not cause a big impression on the difference of height but people like some here who are 170-175 will notice a huge impact.
If they are close to you and see you everyday they'll definitely notice but people who you dont see regurlarly might not notice at all and even if they do, many people have no idea this surgery exists so they'll believe you are wearing high shoes or that they simply mistook your height.
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No, even if I don't walk with crutches I have them on my hands, because I'm afraid people might bump into me. Walking for long periods of times is annoying, because my balance is off and also I'm much slower than normally. Also I use the crutches for sitting down :standing up/ going up or down stairs
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go on pushing, It's just a matter of time.
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I finished lenghtening!!!! about fking TIME. Now getting back to life!
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how much did you lengthen ?
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6 cm right and 6.5 cm left
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good job, be careful with the screws .
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Has anyone (post LL) ever experienced that your hips go up when you lift yours legs? like unstable.
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Do you mean walking like a penguin, with you body shifting to left and right?
I think that is normal.
I had it and it has become better, so that by now I walk normally.
One thing that helped is to pay attention to use the feet, meaning put the back of the foot firmly on the ground, and then use your front feet to push yourself off the ground.
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Hi helloworld. I used to have that for a week the penguin but now my shoulder are fixed and only the hips and my lower body shift. It's only been 2 weeks after I stopped lengthening however, as I'm leaving Milano and won't see the doctor again, I'm getting anxious to recover as much as possible.
How long did it take you to solve it? (yes I also noticed that I think it's because when you use the front feet you activate your glutes to stabilize your hips).
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I am not sure if I got the same.
I will make a video of me walking in the style post limb lengthening and normal style and you can see.
Every week my walking got better.
However, my running is still strange and slow. This is despite the fact that my bike is normal and fast.
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Thanks, approximately how many weeks did it took you from finish lenghtening to regain normal walking? For me running is out of the question as I am not yet fully fused!
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Hey LLSouth, do people notice something when you walk? or its all normal?
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It's been almost 2 weeks since finishing lenghtening. I regained my ability to walk long distances (I can walk more than 1 hour without stopping), but I'm still slower than most people. Yes Kaiser, they do because of my little sway on my hips and also because I always wear my crutches for stairs and so that people know that I'm not normal.
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Hello, Does Dr Guichet allow you to walk without crutches on flat surfaces after finishing lengthening and are you managing this?
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Sure, even before the lenghtening he allows you to walk without crutches but it depends on your bone formation and intended gain.
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Leaving Milan :)
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Keep using crutches, you dont want complications ;)
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Leaving Milan :)
That is great!
Time for reflection: Was it the good choice to do LL? Would you do it again?
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I've been walking a lot of hours without crutches and it's good so I don't think I'm risking a lot by only walking. I use crutches for stairs and sitting/standing even if Dr Guichet allowed me to be totally free of crutches. I'll do so at least for a month or 2.
I don't know yet helloworld I'm still slower than almost everyone when walking and my hips sway a little. I'm hopeful because it's only been 2 weeks since stopping lenghtening. When I get to where you are now, ask me again haha
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I have been improving every week since finishing lengthening, so I guess you will as well, and probablay even faster as you are training much more.
So if everything goes well, then I am pretty sure, you will be happy you did it.
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LLsouthAmerica is amazing! All doctors have good and bad cases but you got the lucky one.
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LLsouthAmerica is amazing! All doctors have good and bad cases but you got the lucky one.
Not at all Datum, I have 6 LL friends that lengthened a few weeks before me and they all got good results and about same recovery as me (some faster some slower). However, what I'm truly lucky about is that I had much less pain in comparison to them.
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I officially let my penguins days behind!!! Walk is 100% normal when I put my mind in it. The first few steps after being on a chair for a lot of times are robotic but after a few seconds they get to normal. While it looks normal, I still feel weird walking but I'm hoping it gets better in time. Every day I improve a little !
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I officially let my penguins days behind!!! Walk is 100% normal when I put my mind in it. The first few steps after being on a chair for a lot of times are robotic but after a few seconds they get to normal. While it looks normal, I still feel weird walking but I'm hoping it gets better in time. Every day I improve a little !
In just one month after finishing lengthening you walk normal now?! that what i like about Gnail
its a good news, do you believe if you did 7 cm its will not be a much different in term of just "walking normal" not fully recovered?
what about 8 cm?
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Yes, technically 5 weeks for my right leg and 3 weeks for my left. What I mean is that I asked people if they notice something weird about the way I walk and they said no. However I don't feel normal when walking and I still have a minimal duckass, especially after being seated for a long time.
I don't think so, because I was very comfortable with my rate of lengthening the last days. It would have taken me a month at that rate to achieve 1 cm. I believe that I would walk normal even at 7 or 8 cm. However, I think that it's pushing too much your biomechanics and also a definite loss in athleticism. Just walking normally is not enough for me.
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hows your consolidation right now?
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It's progressing but my last X-ray is from day 60 post op. Since I'm already taking biphosphonates and vitamin D/calcium there is not much I can do but train and wait. Dr Guichet has allowed me to jump and go up and downstairs but I'm waiting 1-2 months and then take hopefully my last x ray (4-5 months post op) in which we'll see if I've fused completely.
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It's progressing but my last X-ray is from day 60 post op. Since I'm already taking biphosphonates and vitamin D/calcium there is not much I can do but train and wait. Dr Guichet has allowed me to jump and go up and downstairs but I'm waiting 1-2 months and then take hopefully my last x ray (4-5 months post op) in which we'll see if I've fused completely.
Great! You can jump! That feels great, right?
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I'm only about 3 months post op so I mini jumped to please/shut up Dr Guichet. It was scary... I will not do it again until I'm fully fused haha.
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I'm only about 3 months post op so I mini jumped to please/shut up Dr Guichet. It was scary... I will not do it again until I'm fully fused haha.
If you walk almost normally, what does fully fused means to a full weight barring nail, what the difference it will make you think? Do you consider fully fused an 80% recovered or more?
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Fully fused means that your bone is consolidated and is as strong as it was before LL. The weight bearing nail means that it can support your weight without relying on your bone formation. For Gnail its 80 kg per nail. But the fact that it supports my weight enough for me to walk doesnt mean that there are no restrictions: i cant leg press or squat for example.
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160 kg is the weight limit of g-nail?
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Yes one of the patients told me that but I never confirmed with Dr Guichet. Still he made me stand up on one leg the second week after surgery so I know it handled my 65 kg without problems
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how money months you expect your bone will fully consolidated?
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On average 4-6 months for femur consolidations, so about 2 months for me. However, the old guy who was 183 and lengthened 5 cm consolidated only 2 months and a half after surgery!! So it depends...
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On average 4-6 months for femur consolidations, so about 2 months for me. However, the old guy who was 183 and lengthened 5 cm consolidated only 2 months and a half after surgery!! So it depends...
Is there any feeling right now makes you uncomfortable ( pain, stiffens...... etc)?
what the things you cant do right now you was able before surgery (other than running, jumping, taking stairs) ?
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Yes, lately I feel pain in the lateral part of the knee where the tendons are, the first minutes after I start walking. As I walk more it reduces and then I only feel a little stiffness but it's annoying. It is more severe in the morning, specially nowadays because I sleep 8-9 hours without stop. During lengthening I used to sleep 6-7 hours and frequently woke up to stretch at 3 AM.
Nothing, only running, jumping and doing weight training. I don't dare to pick up things from the floor, I use my foot to pick it up half the way and then use my hand haha.
For stairs the small ones I manage without crutches. I'm being overly careful because the rest of the patients started using the stairs without support 3 weeks after stopping lengthening.
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Officially left crutches completely ;D
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Good ! I have a question : When will you remove the nails ?
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I don't know I think it's 2 years after surgery. I also don't know what I will be doing at the time or if my life will allow me to travel to Milan for the surgery.
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I don't know I think it's 2 years after surgery. I also don't know what I will be doing at the time or if my life will allow me to travel to Milan for the surgery.
Most doctors said removal surgery will not affect you, but i don't know why Guichet said you have to relax for three weeks, what you think and why?
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In theory it shouldn't have an effect since the bone is already fully consolidated and the nail is not supporting your weight. However maybe removing the nail can damage the bone. Knowing Dr Guichet, even if he doesn't know what is happening, he probably has had patients with post removal fracture especially in the first 3 weeks (I didn't know you had to relax for 3 weeks) so that's why he makes that recommendation.
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Not ready yet for the world outside. Today I met with an old friend and the first words she said to me were "you are walking a little bit weird and you are taller, what have you done" :(
Well, she is a girl and a med student so maybe she is more observant than most people. Still, it seems I'm not ready for society yet :(
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Not ready yet for the world outside. Today I met with an old friend and the first words she said to me were "you are walking a little bit weird and you are taller, what have you done" :(
Well, she is a girl and a med student so maybe she is more observant than most people. Still, it seems I'm not ready for society yet :(
Hope She doesnt know what you did yet, but when time is time what Will you say to the people you meet?
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Hope She doesnt know what you did yet, but when time is time what Will you say to the people you meet?
I told her the complete truth, she is a close friend. Anyhow, I know worse things and secrets about her. My surgery is small issue by comparison ;D ;D
I'll tell them it's the European air, more refined and clean, or maybe a late growth spurt. I don't have to give explanations to anyone. However, it's more difficult to hide these things from people who know medicine... they catch up to lies faster
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Late growth spurts are great xd, you should stay hidden till you can walk normally, would be easier to fool fools.
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I told her the complete truth, she is a close friend. Anyhow, I know worse things and secrets about her. My surgery is small issue by comparison ;D ;D
I'll tell them it's the European air, more refined and clean, or maybe a late growth spurt. I don't have to give explanations to anyone. However, it's more difficult to hide these things from people who know medicine... they catch up to lies faster
what about other people not know medicine, how you fool them what you gonna say?
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Help :( pain on the lateral side of my knee after being in the gym... hurts much when i flex my knee :'(
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You have to go to PT for a review, but you can try this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtacZQYSTJ4
Good luck
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Thanks, yagen. Actually, today I woke up much better. I think I overtrained, so I will skip the gym today and tomorrow. I would love to go to a PT, but the doctor told me not to because they do not understand the surgery and may apply force to your femur and broke it. Apparently, it has happened many times before. So I am waiting for a fully consolidated bone and then I will start a proper physiotherapy.
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But aren't your bones fully consolidated now? How would they break at the hands of a PT?
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But aren't your bones fully consolidated now? How would they break at the hands of a PT?
Stress fracture
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Actually, a stress fracture occurs when you repeatedly apply force to your lower limbs (e.g running) but due to the stiffness of the muscles it doesn't absorb the impact and it goes to the bone. In the end, it may crack.
But no, alps. I don't know if my bones are fully consolidated. My last post op x-ray was at 2 months after surgery. In one week time, I will take a more recent x-ray (4 months post op), hopefully, it will show that my bones are consolidated. Or maybe I'm not that lucky who knows?
I was talking about the possibility of being mishandled by the PT, sometimes they do passive mobilization of the limbs which may be dangerous.
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Programm didnt run And and had a fracture, maybe was for ak early removal, nobody seems to know.
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Programm didnt run And and had a fracture, maybe was for ak early removal, nobody seems to know.
Program had the fracture post removal, but duly noted :O
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Just curious, why "female" & "asian" are two risk factors? Any scientific explanation?
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Because especially after menopause their bone density is lower than before, also asian people have a pattern of consolidation that is not the best And have lower bone density than other races like black. Maybe if the surgery is done in very Young women, the factor of menopause can be eliminated, this obviously increases the chance of a fracture.
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Late growth spurts are great xd, you should stay hidden till you can walk normally, would be easier to fool fools.
what if someone did LL at 26, will people believe him? I think they will just be shocked then deal with it because they know nothing about LL
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what if someone did LL at 26, will people believe him? I think they will just be shocked then deal with it because they know nothing about LL
Then is more difficult, use some lifts before to minimize the difference before And after, normally people are not that intelligent, although there are bright ones.
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This is something a little bit unexplainable but I used to wear 5 cm tall shoes + 1-2 cm insole. However after lengthening just 1 inch, I "felt" much taller than with my shoes. Now with my 6 - 6.5 cm gain, I look better and taller than with my shoes. I think it's because of the illusion that longer legs give.
2 weeks ago I met with a friend who is a med and she immediately noticed I was taller and walked a little bit stiff. One week ago, I met with my uncle. While he never saw me walk, because I asked my brother to distract him until I sat, he saw me standing next to him and stared at me and then at my shoes. I don't know if he noticed I was taller.
Guys forget it, unless you are around idiots, people WILL notice.
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With lifts you can minimize It, not 100 but can do the effect less strong, and normally there are a lot of idiots outside, see the presidents we have, not Many people Will pay a lot of atention to that, just the first time or so.
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You should be happy people notice :) It means you do actually look much taller
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Very much noticeable where you are from as we know the Avg height in South America is much less than western nations.
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People definitely notice. I look like a completely different person.
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Seriously, I wouldn't worry about it at all. If you do care about it, remove the 1-2cm insole, that would help. But anyway, what matters is that you seem to be fine without major complications, isn't it?
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Seriously, I wouldn't worry about it at all. If you do care about it, remove the 1-2cm insole, that would help. But anyway, what matters is that you seem to be fine without major complications, isn't it?
Now for the sake of my feet and knees, I wear only normal shoes. It doesn't matter at all, as long as I walk fine and I recover steadily as until now. It's the other guys who are really fixated on if it is noticeable, what am I gonna say, etc. For the people close to me I'll say the truth, for the others, I don't have to give explanations.
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Totally agreed! I haven't done the schedule and I am still wearing insoles. Insoles really suck but no choice for now.
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Do you send x-rays to Dr guitchet to ser your consolidation? Do you have any doc in South America that checks you aswell?
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Do you send x-rays to Dr guitchet to ser your consolidation? Do you have any doc in South America that checks you aswell?
Since my 60 days post op x ray I haven't taken any other. Femur consolidation takes 4-6 months. I will take an x- ray tomorrow as I complete the 4 months post op.
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I think you are not putting full weight as your femurs are not completely consolidated, I thought you had to have another doc in your country, but I am more quit becuase you only need to send x-rays.
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I think you are not putting full weight as your femurs are not completely consolidated, I thought you had to have another doc in your country, but I am more quit becuase you only need to send x-rays.
what did you just say? hahaha
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That you dont have another doctor in your country, you send images to your surgeon, he Will tell you when you are fully consolidated.
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Yep, but haven't had the need to send him x-rays. Already when I left Milan, he told me I could do everything except running/sports. So that's the only limitation he told me. It was only my decision to use the crutches for a little bit longer and wait for further consolidation.
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Hey guys, I am 100% back to everyday life. Unfortunately I can't go back to med school until next year so not much to do but pass the time. However, as of now, I am able to live a normal life to a point.
Unfortunately not everything is good because my consolidation is slower than my fellow lenghteners who did it around the same time as me. I have a very different pattern of consolidation in which the bone is not hypertrophic but healing occurs mostly when the bone originally was.
I post my xrays exactly 4 months post op. Please Penguinn if you can, check them out and tell me your opinion as this is also your pattern of consolidation.
http://imgur.com/R0gq3E1
http://imgur.com/mknXi7m
http://imgur.com/z65KELn
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Hey guys, I am 100% back to everyday life. Unfortunately I can't go back to med school until next year so not much to do but pass the time. However, as of now, I am able to live a normal life to a point.
Unfortunately not everything is good because my consolidation is slower than my fellow lenghteners who did it around the same time as me. I have a very different pattern of consolidation in which the bone is not hypertrophic but healing occurs mostly when the bone originally was.
I post my xrays exactly 4 months post op. Please Penguinn if you can, check them out and tell me your opinion as this is also your pattern of consolidation.
http://imgur.com/R0gq3E1
http://imgur.com/mknXi7m
http://imgur.com/z65KELn
Am really happy to hear this great and positive news, you can enjoy every inch now haha. About med school why you can't attend now? and your fellow how many cm did they lengthened?
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Thanks Kaiser! Because it's my year of internship and it starts on January 1st and ends on December 31st. I pretty much lost one year but it was what I intended. The majority of the people who lengthened at the same time as me did around 6 cm, but I knew guys who did from 5 to 8 cm. They all recovered very good and fast.
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I wonder, proportionally speaking, how does those 6cm look? Do your femurs look much longer or are 6cm a pretty subtle change?
Have you done mock-ups before? If so, does it look the same?
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Never cared too much about proportions, but I had short legs. After this 6 cm increase, I can finally wear jeans for adults without having to cut them (I'm still the smallest size though). My femurs look longer but not by a lot and better overall. According to Dr Guichet I would still have to lengthen 3 cm to get to the "perfect proportion" (which I don't care about) and my tibias are small for my size before lengthening so a lot smaller for my current height.
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This is my pattern of consolidation on my good (right) leg. On my left, I'm waiting for the callus on one side.
Looks awesome, you have callus on both sides on both legs. Rejoice ;D
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According to Dr Guichet I would still have to lengthen 3 cm to get to the "perfect proportion" (which I don't care about) and my tibias are small for my size before lengthening so a lot smaller for my current height.
THe "perfect proportions" of Guichet state femur should be 29% of total height! However, that seems too much. After lengthening my femur is 28%. And elsewhere I found 26% is average, 27% is ideal. Those numbers seem more realisitic.
"For men, average height is 1.76 m (5 feet, 9.5 inches) and for women 1.68 m (5 feet, 6.25 inches). In terms of anthropometrics, the length of the femur represents 29% of standing height, while the tibia represents 80% of femur length."
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average women are not 168.. Just saying
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average women are not 168.. Just saying
I totally agree! Average height for women is average height of men - 13.
The part in brackets was taken from Guichet website.
I think it is written in a way to make people want to lengthen their legs.
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My femur length before surgery was around 40 cm, so now after surgery it's 46 cm / 170 cm x 100 = 27% so now I'm ideal :D
My tibia length is 34 cm so to be 80% of femur length it would have to be around 37 cm.
Well, it seems like even now I could handle lengthening in both my femur and tibias without straying too far from the norm.
THe "perfect proportions" of Guichet state femur should be 29% of total height! However, that seems too much. After lengthening my femur is 28%. And elsewhere I found 26% is average, 27% is ideal. Those numbers seem more realisitic.
"For men, average height is 1.76 m (5 feet, 9.5 inches) and for women 1.68 m (5 feet, 6.25 inches). In terms of anthropometrics, the length of the femur represents 29% of standing height, while the tibia represents 80% of femur length."
Helloworld, could you send me the source of your info about proportions?
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Helloworld, could you send me the source of your info about proportions?
http://www.drguichet.com/proportion-and-possible-gain/
"For men, average height is 1.76 m (5 feet, 9.5 inches) and for women 1.68 m (5 feet, 6.25 inches). In terms of anthropometrics, the length of the femur represents 29% of standing height, while the tibia represents 80% of femur length."
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http://www.drguichet.com/proportion-and-possible-gain/
"For men, average height is 1.76 m (5 feet, 9.5 inches) and for women 1.68 m (5 feet, 6.25 inches). In terms of anthropometrics, the length of the femur represents 29% of standing height, while the tibia represents 80% of femur length."
No, I meant your other source which says it should be 27%.
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Yesterday I walked like 8 hours during the whole day and climbed a sand dune. I walked sometimes more than 2 hours non stop and at normal person pace. However, at the end of the day, I reverted to my penguin past. I wonder why that happens. Today I walked up better but still minimum penguin... Here I was thinking my penguin days were completely gone, maybe it's due to muscle exertion.
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hey there.
how are you hanging there?
still pelvic tilted? do you find it uncomfortable or painful? or just bothered by the look of it?
walking 8 hours a day seems like a real push even for the average - normal legs person, so you should be proud!
so what are your limitations at your current state?
can u bend over to pick something from the floor?
running lightly?
stairs?
ive watched a video of someone post femur-ll and walking up the stairs seems easier than walking down the stairs...
what about stretching or physiotherapy?
btw, by the radiographs you posted, you should be 12 yeard old :P
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hey there.
how are you hanging there?
still pelvic tilted? do you find it uncomfortable or painful? or just bothered by the look of it?
walking 8 hours a day seems like a real push even for the average - normal legs person, so you should be proud!
so what are your limitations at your current state?
can u bend over to pick something from the floor?
running lightly?
stairs?
ive watched a video of someone post femur-ll and walking up the stairs seems easier than walking down the stairs...
what about stretching or physiotherapy?
btw, by the radiographs you posted, you should be 12 yeard old :P
Hey, much better I recovered my walk again. Turns out it was only muscle fatigue. I'm not pelvic tilted since a lot of week ago, maybe a little bit after sitting for hours but after standing for a while it resolves. Before it was painful walking for hours because of the back pain but it was never very noticeable. As I told you I have no pelvic tilt since a lot of time ago.
At my current state, I have no limitations on normal life, I bend over to pick stuff from the floor, go up and downstairs without support etc. However what I have noticed is that I can no longer reach my feet to stretch the quadriceps and my hands reach only to my ankles (before I could almost touch the floor with my hands).
Though Dr Guichet told me a few days ago I could restart sports I will wait until 6 months post op so I've not tried running and yes you are right going up stairs is 100 times easier than walking down stairs. Maybe it's because my balance is off or because I'm afraid of falling.
I stretch sometimes by myself, and I've done no physio since leaving Milan. I believe that covers all the questions and yeah haha, of course, the xrays only says the default information. I'm not 12 years old!
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does Dr Guchit recommends femoral or tibial operation according to the body proportions or he recommends femoral lengthening any way and does you meet patients doing tibial lengthening and what were their results as many doctors recommend femur operation but other recommend tibia , i thought it is the method they use while external fixators are best in tibia , the internal fixators are best in femur , please correct it to me if you know other inforamtion.
In a diary of precise II of both femur and tibia , the patient said it was less pain than femur.
also is there any restriction to wear high heels after operation.
and do you know which can cause more disability ( i mean not 100% recovery back to normal) tibial or femoral LL
do you regret doing LL for any reason
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does Dr Guchit recommends femoral or tibial operation according to the body proportions or he recommends femoral lengthening any way and does you meet patients doing tibial lengthening and what were their results as many doctors recommend femur operation but other recommend tibia , i thought it is the method they use while external fixators are best in tibia , the internal fixators are best in femur , please correct it to me if you know other inforamtion.
In a diary of precise II of both femur and tibia , the patient said it was less pain than femur.
also is there any restriction to wear high heels after operation.
and do you know which can cause more disability ( i mean not 100% recovery back to normal) tibial or femoral LL
do you regret doing LL for any reason
Femoral always, I also think tibia = external and femur = internal. I don't think there is a restriction to wear high heels. I have wore insole and lifts after LL and it was uncomfortable but not painful.
About the recovery I don't know which is worse, but I don't think it causes disability. Even now almost 5 months after surgery I'm completely functional and able to do everyday life without problems.
I regret being so short that even after LL the majority of people will be taller than me. The lengthening itself I think it was worth it but it did not have the impact it would have if I were taller pre op. I think 169 - 173 is the best starting height.
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how about doing tibia for like 4-6 cm?
youre still young...
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Femoral always, I also think tibia = external and femur = internal. I don't think there is a restriction to wear high heels. I have wore insole and lifts after LL and it was uncomfortable but not painful.
About the recovery I don't know which is worse, but I don't think it causes disability. Even now almost 5 months after surgery I'm completely functional and able to do everyday life without problems.
I regret being so short that even after LL the majority of people will be taller than me. The lengthening itself I think it was worth it but it did not have the impact it would have if I were taller pre op. I think 169 - 173 is the best starting height.
Dude, you went from being shorter than the average girl to obviously not tall. You are just shortish now
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Dude, you went from being shorter than the average girl to obviously not tall. You are just shortish now
Don't you remember that on reddit/LL Forum/old forum everybody under 7' is basically a manlet?
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I regret being so short that even after LL the majority of people will be taller than me. The lengthening itself I think it was worth it but it did not have the impact it would have if I were taller pre op. I think 169 - 173 is the best starting height.
Sorry for nitpicking, but this is not what regret means. You can't regret something you have so little control over. That's like saying "I regret being born in the wrong country".
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how about doing tibia for like 4-6 cm?
youre still young...
Sure, but after surviving 1 LL, I have other priorities than to have another surgery and be in frames for more than half a year.
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Dude, you went from being shorter than the average girl to obviously not tall. You are just shortish now
I think 164 cm is around the average height of a girl in the majority of western countries and taller than average in SA. We are both shortish now, you are only 1-2 cm taller than me I think. I feel better about my height than you after achieving that by LL, but you have to agree with me that even after LL my height is not average for a man.
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I thought the average in SA was about 170-175 cm. Surely you don't feel too short?
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Sorry for nitpicking, but this is not what regret means. You can't regret something you have so little control over. That's like saying "I regret being born in the wrong country".
I love being born in my country and I can't change that. However, I had premature consolidation because of premature puberty and by the time I notice / cared about height when I was 14-15 my bone age was 19 and I had barely a response to HGH. If my doctor parents had paid attention to me instead of working too much or had I been smarter and more self-conscious earlier, maybe I wouldn't have had to do this surgery.
What's done is done.
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I thought the average in SA was about 170-175 cm. Surely you don't feel too short?
It is interesting because unlike many countries we are not ethnically uniform. In my country, people who are indigenous are shorter and tend to be poorer, live outside the city and represent the majority of the population so they bring the average down by a lot. In practice, most of the people of a certain social economic position are Caucasians and taller. For this reason, I meet with taller people than it would normally be expected in my country.
I don't feel terribly short but definitely not average.
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I love being born in my country and I can't change that. However, I had premature consolidation because of premature puberty and by the time I notice / cared about height when I was 14-15 my bone age was 19 and I had barely a response to HGH. If my doctor parents had paid attention to me instead of working too much or had I been smarter and more self-conscious earlier, maybe I wouldn't have had to do this surgery.
What's done is done.
But can you seriously blame yourself for this? 14-15 year olds aren't supposed to care about these things and usually have other things on their mind than the importance of height in society. Most 15 years old probably don't know what bone age or HGH is. I've been going through the same struggle, but on an objective note, a 15 year old boy isn't to blame for these things.
Besides, a 15 year old can't do much about his premature bone age, even if he knew the graveness of this problem, as far as I can see.
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LLsouthamerica I think that you could have easily tried for 1-1.5 cm more and be very close to 5.8 which is no big difference from 5.7 but every cm above 5.7 really matters imo.
But still you can always do 5cm more in tibias and have a respectable height, especially for s. America.
Doing 5cm more in tibias with ilizarov is really no big deal in terms of money and complications, even the time is not much (about 6 months till frame removal).
If you are not ok with your height, don't let the time pass and do it. I regret for not gathering money sooner to be able now to do my second LL and I should wait about 2 years to do it.
Still your current height has a real difference compared to your initial but if you want more, go for that.
You are a sane and down to earth person, a very good candidate for a successful LL.
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I did 5 cm with ilizarov and it did not go well... People dont realize how many things can go wrong. With current experience I would do ONLY LATN or precise
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I love being born in my country and I can't change that. However, I had premature consolidation because of premature puberty and by the time I notice / cared about height when I was 14-15 my bone age was 19 and I had barely a response to HGH. If my doctor parents had paid attention to me instead of working too much or had I been smarter and more self-conscious earlier, maybe I wouldn't have had to do this surgery.
I have thyroid issues since i was 12yo and my uncles are 6'8 so yup. Who gives a damn doe.
Tbh worse things happened in my life.
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I love being born in my country and I can't change that. However, I had premature consolidation because of premature puberty and by the time I notice / cared about height when I was 14-15 my bone age was 19 and I had barely a response to HGH. If my doctor parents had paid attention to me instead of working too much or had I been smarter and more self-conscious earlier, maybe I wouldn't have had to do this surgery.
What's done is done.
I don't think it's fair to blame yourself or your parents. There doesn't always have to be something/someone to blame. No one get's a perfect life and if you can mitigate your problems and still be happy then who cares where the blame is placed
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Just use the 5 cm lifts. What country are you from? I would say the tallest in south america are Brazil and Argentina which have heights listed at 5 7 your height.
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Probably for white people it is closer to 5'9, that would make sense
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But can you seriously blame yourself for this? 14-15 year olds aren't supposed to care about these things and usually have other things on their mind than the importance of height in society. Most 15 years old probably don't know what bone age or HGH is. I've been going through the same struggle, but on an objective note, a 15 year old boy isn't to blame for these things.
Besides, a 15 year old can't do much about his premature bone age, even if he knew the graveness of this problem, as far as I can see.
Well at 15 years of age I knew bone age and HGH, and it was me who told my parents I should try it. It wasn't something I should worry about for sure, but I should have had periodic paediatric controls and they would have noticed my massive balls inconsistent with my age haha. There are delicate decisions which can have a BIG impact on the future like my case.
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LLsouthamerica I think that you could have easily tried for 1-1.5 cm more and be very close to 5.8 which is no big difference from 5.7 but every cm above 5.7 really matters imo.
But still you can always do 5cm more in tibias and have a respectable height, especially for s. America.
Doing 5cm more in tibias with ilizarov is really no big deal in terms of money and complications, even the time is not much (about 6 months till frame removal).
If you are not ok with your height, don't let the time pass and do it. I regret for not gathering money sooner to be able now to do my second LL and I should wait about 2 years to do it.
Still your current height has a real difference compared to your initial but if you want more, go for that.
You are a sane and down to earth person, a very good candidate for a successful LL.
Thanks man, I appreciate it. I stayed at 6 - 6.5 because Dr Guichet told me that my knees had a higher risk of dislocation because of their position and also something about a torsional problem with my quadriceps and he recommended no more than 6 cm. Also, in my research of LL, I knew a lot of people who recovered fully - almost fully but they were always no more than 5 cm lengthening.
Now, while I'm back to normal life, I've not recovered completely I haven't restart running, weight training or dancing. I've also not finished medical school. I have other ambitions and while my parents have money I won't rely on them any longer. Some day in 5 - 10 years, I may want another lengthening I would do 5 cm tibia externals and maybe concurrent fix of any traumatological complications of my first lengthening should there be any. Of course this time I will pay for it. Until then I'll enjoy my new me.
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I have thyroid issues since i was 12yo and my uncles are 6'8 so yup. Who gives a damn doe.
Tbh worse things happened in my life.
And how tall are you? You definitely win though it is not a competition. There was nothing you could do about it unlike me. Even with replacement therapy, hypothyroidism causes short stature. On the other hand, I would not like to be 6'8.
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And how tall are you? You definitely win though it is not a competition. There was nothing you could do about it unlike me. Even with replacement therapy, hypothyroidism causes short stature. On the other hand, I would not like to be 6'8.
Never thought about it as a competition. I just wanted to show you that you arent the only one and blaming someone won't really do much.
Hypothroidism is pretty easy to control(simple pills can maintain decent TSH levels).
5'5 living in a tall european country(5'11 is avg here). I never wanted to be 6'8 too lol but i had prediction range of 5'9 to even 6'5 since i was very tall as a kid.
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Well at 15 years of age I knew bone age and HGH, and it was me who told my parents I should try it. It wasn't something I should worry about for sure, but I should have had periodic paediatric controls and they would have noticed my massive balls inconsistent with my age haha. There are delicate decisions which can have a BIG impact on the future like my case.
You told your parents to try HGH, and as I've understood, you got it? (you said you barely have any response to it). You were 15 with premature puberty and even got HGH, so my question is: what else could've been done? Massive amounts of HGH (over the doses a normal doctor would recommend) are extremely costly and not covered by any medical insurance, and surely impossible to get for a 15 year old. So in all objectiveness (and without the emotional aspect): what else is a 15 year old kid supposed to do?
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Thanks man, I appreciate it. I stayed at 6 - 6.5 because Dr Guichet told me that my knees had a higher risk of dislocation because of their position and also something about a torsional problem with my quadriceps and he recommended no more than 6 cm. Also, in my research of LL, I knew a lot of people who recovered fully - almost fully but they were always no more than 5 cm lengthening.
Now, while I'm back to normal life, I've not recovered completely I haven't restart running, weight training or dancing. I've also not finished medical school. I have other ambitions and while my parents have money I won't rely on them any longer. Some day in 5 - 10 years, I may want another lengthening I would do 5 cm tibia externals and maybe concurrent fix of any traumatological complications of my first lengthening should there be any. Of course this time I will pay for it. Until then I'll enjoy my new me.
Dude if your parents have money and most importantly support your ll decisions I would go for tibia latn which in russia you can get for aroud 25k total everything with barinov and lenghten 5 cm. Especially since you said you had to wait a year right to go to school. You can always be kind to your parents in the future. I wish my parents were like that. :'(
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Never thought about it as a competition. I just wanted to show you that you arent the only one and blaming someone won't really do much.
Hypothroidism is pretty easy to control(simple pills can maintain decent TSH levels).
5'5 living in a tall european country(5'11 is avg here). I never wanted to be 6'8 too lol but i had prediction range of 5'9 to even 6'5 since i was very tall as a kid.
Sorry to hear that. But what I meant is that even if hypothyroidism is controlled with levothyroxine, people usually are inevitably shorter than average. Of course the longer it takes to diagnose the worse.
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You told your parents to try HGH, and as I've understood, you got it? (you said you barely have any response to it). You were 15 with premature puberty and even got HGH, so my question is: what else could've been done? Massive amounts of HGH (over the doses a normal doctor would recommend) are extremely costly and not covered by any medical insurance, and surely impossible to get for a 15 year old. So in all objectiveness (and without the emotional aspect): what else is a 15 year old kid supposed to do?
Yes, I got it. I did everything a 15 year old can do and then began with my plans of LL. However, a 12 year old could have delayed his growth cartilage from closing and achieved more height gain after HGH. It's useless to put blames but history really could have gone differently.
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Dude if your parents have money and most importantly support your ll decisions I would go for tibia latn which in russia you can get for aroud 25k total everything with barinov and lenghten 5 cm. Especially since you said you had to wait a year right to go to school. You can always be kind to your parents in the future. I wish my parents were like that. :'(
I already did 1 LL and I have not totally recovered from the first to even think about the second one haha. However, maybe a few years in the future just maybe I could do external tibia with Catagni or Pili
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Officially started running. :D :D
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how is it ? :D post videos plz
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Congratulations LLSouthAmerica.
I like your honesty. That's what I would expect from Monegal's patients. People with bad experiences with Dr Guichet tell the truth like Unicorn and people with good experiences tell the truth like LLSouthAmerica who says he is running some months after LL but also criticizes Guichet when he deserves.
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Officially started running. :D :D
Congratulations,LL South America ☺🎉🎆🎊
May I ask you a question : I noticed in the previous page that on all your X-Rays pics there is written "Date Birth:2005"
I thought you was 22 years old.If I misunderstood feel free to correct me 😉
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how is it ? :D post videos plz
Well to tell the truth, since that day in which I did some light trot, I've been busy with life and never did it again. Maybe next week, I'll start working on my running. That I remember, it felt REALLY weird, I can't begin to imagine how weird it must look from the outside. Maybe one of these days, I'll record a video.
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Congratulations,LL South America ☺🎉🎆🎊
May I ask you a question : I noticed in the previous page that on all your X-Rays pics there is written "Date Birth:2005"
I thought you was 22 years old.If I misunderstood feel free to correct me 😉
No way was I gonna post a pic which has my personal info on it and of course I'm not 12, haha. It's just the default setting of the machine most likely.
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No way was I gonna post a pic which has my personal info on it and of course I'm not 12, haha. It's just the default setting of the machine most likely.
Fine😉
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Hi LLSouthAmerica.
Could you please tell me if while consolidating you did PT by your own or you paid a physician?
And how old are you?, curious bc Im 52 and planning to do ll with Paley next year
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Hi LLSouthAmerica.
Could you please tell me if while consolidating you did PT by your own or you paid a physician?
And how old are you?, curious bc Im 52 and planning to do ll with Paley next year
Hi Mariobro,
Glad to find another person over 40 looking to do LL. I am 43 and planning on doing it within the next couple of months. Wish you the best. Are you doing femurs or tibias?
I'd like to hear the same from LLSouthAmerica. I believe lost do pay a therapist during lengthening, but not sure about during the consolidation.
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I will be doing internal femurs since it seems to be easier and let you go up to 8 cms.
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I will be doing internal femurs since it seems to be easier and let you go up to 8 cms.
Right, I'll be doing the same with Dr. Mahboubian in Los Angeles. Hoping for 7.6 cm but the full 8 cms would be better. I am doing lots of stretching in preparation.
Have you already met with Dr. Paley? What is your starting height?
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I will be doing internal femurs since it seems to be easier and let you go up to 8 cms.
Are you worried about looking disproportional after adding that much height to your legs?
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Are you worried about looking disproportional after adding that much height to your legs?
Yes, I met Paley but I did not set an exact date yet, however, most probably I will schedule for late March.
My starting Hg is 169.7
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Hi LLSouthAmerica.
Could you please tell me if while consolidating you did PT by your own or you paid a physician?
And how old are you?, curious bc Im 52 and planning to do ll with Paley next year
PT during lengthening was included in the surgery price and after that the Dr. forbids us from using a PT not trained by him and I didn't consider it necessary so since returning from Milan around 3 months post op no PT.
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Thank you for your response. Do you have your rods removed yet?, if so, was it painful?, and how long to recover?
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And, why you stopped at 6cm?
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Im barely 7 months post op so no removal.
Stopped at 6 / 6.5 cm for safety reasons
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Hello LLSouthAmerica 8) !
I have a question : What's your opinion about your proportions legs - thigh(limb) after after your gain of 6 centimeters ?
I have this desire to do this operation in the futur but ''the proportions'' is a brake to my motivation.
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I feel like my proportions thigh vs legs are even better/ more aesthetically pleasant. I honestly believe that for 1 lengthening with a target gain of no more than 6 - 8 cm for the vast majority of people, proportion should not be an issue. I've seen many people from different background (asians, caucasians, middle-eastern) lengthening these amounts and they look completely normal. Now, I wonder whether I would still look fine if I did 5 cm tibias, perhaps my upper body/lower body would be unbalanced.
As of now however, I look better than before.
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Hi LLSouthAmerica, thank you for your response, you are an inspiration for me thinking on undergo ll. You mentioned that no PT post op?, not even just some stretching?. And how you are doing on walking, jogging and sports?
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Let's see ... stretching yes, walking, cycling and elliptical the same way as during lengthening. What I meant is that after Milan there was no one but me to oversee my training or help me to stretch whatsoever.
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That is mean you are still on walker/crutches and no walking unaid yet?
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What? I stopped using walker 1 week post op and crutches around 2 months post op. Where are you getting this from?
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I did read most of the thread, and I know a couple of these questions were more or less asked before, but I still wanted to ask them myself. I hope you don't mind.
Why did you choose, or what was your reasoning, going for the femurs specifically?
Are you satisfied with Dr. Guichet's treatment and follow-up?
Was the biggest change after surgery how you see and carry yourself, or do you think the biggest change came from people (you do not know) interacting with you after the height gain?
Did Dr. Guichet give you a max estimate for total recovery before the surgery, and how far are you from that? Or did he state your physical ability would most likely never be the same again?
Thank you.
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1) Femur heal faster and tolerate the lengthening better
2) Satisfied yes in my case, though I felt he was lacking in bedside manners with other patients (Unicorn)
3) Definitely how I feel about myself but at the same time people now have stopped seeing me as the " very short" guy.
4) What is total recovery? I assume it would never be the same again and I never asked. Before surgery, I studied a lot about LL and I didn't ask Dr. Guichet many questions I should've. I knew what I was getting into.
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Anyways is there someone from Anaheim, California here? Please INBOX :)
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4) What is total recovery? I assume it would never be the same again and I never asked. Before surgery, I studied a lot about LL and I didn't ask Dr. Guichet many questions I should've. I knew what I was getting into.
Thanks for the replies, LLSouthAmerica.
What questions do you think you should have asked?
And I know there would be a loss of athletic ability and all, but I'd define total recovery as the moment when you remove the nails and don't need to keep doing x-rays to check on your legs. Was there an estimate for that, or is it going to be lifelong thing? Thanks again.
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Hi LLSouthAmerica, did TSA give you any problem at the airport? Did they dicover the rods through the body scan?
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Also, sorry, I probably meant rods in my last post.
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Thanks for the replies, LLSouthAmerica.
What questions do you think you should have asked?
And I know there would be a loss of athletic ability and all, but I'd define total recovery as the moment when you remove the nails and don't need to keep doing x-rays to check on your legs. Was there an estimate for that, or is it going to be lifelong thing? Thanks again.
Hi LLSouthAmerica, did TSA give you any problem at the airport? Did they dicover the rods through the body scan?
The doctor told me it was not necessary to do another x-ray around 4 months post-op based on the progress of my healing. I will probably take one just to make sure, though. Nail removal is 1.5 - 2 years post op so I'm still a year behind.
No, no problems. However, since a few months ago I constantly ring at the airports. I only say I have a metallic prosthesis and they let me inside without any other procedures.
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Thanks again for the patience and replies, LLSouthAmerica. I know some of my questions got asked pretty frequently, but I appreciate you still took to the time to answer them. I've done a fair bit of research since I've started posting here now.
Also, you're the only medical student in the forums that I know of. Not only that, you actually went through LL. Your input is actually invaluable here. I was reading more papers related to CLL by Catagni and others on pubmed and I noticed all the deaths related to LL surgery I am currently aware of happened due to forms of embolism. Being a medical student yourself, what was it that made you think going through the surgery was still worth the risk?
Reading Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_embolism) as a layman paints a not particularly bright picture:
Fat emboli occur in almost 90% of all people with severe injuries to bones, although only 10% of these are symptomatic.
Again, though, I'm not a medical student, so I can't tell if this should be read as scarily as it is for me. I'd like my chances of death from embolism (fat, pulmonary or otherwise) to be fractions of zero percent, not possibly whole single percents.
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@ LLSouthAmerica: Which anticoagulants gave Dr. Guichet to you post-surgery?
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Hey guys, I've not been active in the forum. Now I'm a doctor, training to be a dermatologist, therefore traumatology is not my forte. I remember that I started weight bearing the day after surgery (I stood up the day of the surgery), and then I only took aspirin (although in a higher dose than the one used in platelet aggregation inhibition).
I had the surgery because I felt I needed it to be at peace with myself. I considered myself to be a low risk patient (mid 20s, not smoker, without significant diseases). However, I was still very much scared of having complications.
@Limbfan2020 @myloginacct
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So to summ it up, I had limb lengthening nail removal a week ago with Dr. Giotikas and now I'm recovering from a complication in surgery (nail broke) and had to be removed with aid of retrograde approach.
I'm walking close to normal as of now and I expect a full recovery. My medical adventure has officially and finally ended. Good luck to you all in your path.