Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: yyes on February 13, 2017, 01:41:39 PM
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I have nailed down my choices to these two doctors. I will be budgeting 20k for this surgery and financing the other 20-30k.
I figure better to invest in yourself than to buy a new car or whatever.
I will be doing 5.5 cm. My biggest concern is to recover as soon as possible. For me recovery means to not walk with any limp whatsoever. To be able to walk like a normal person without any aid.
How long would that take if I went with internals?
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I have nailed down my choices to these two doctors. I will be budgeting 20k for this surgery and financing the other 20-30k
I strongly advise against financing to pay for limb lengthening surgery. Please consider delaying the procedure and saving the funds for the surgery, accommodation, any other necessities and potential complications until you can pay for it in its entirety.
I will be doing 5.5 cm. My biggest concern is to recover as soon as possible. For me recovery means to not walk with any limp whatsoever. To be able to walk like a normal person without any aid.
Nobody can predict the future. You may breeze through the procedure or may encounter numerous problems, there is no certainty in regards to this surgery. 5.5CM is a reasonably safe amount of lengthening, especially if femoral but I'd still advise doing a maximum of 5CM on either segment.
How long would that take if I went with internals?
This will be dependent on the lengthening phase. From the FAQ - Generally, for an increase of 5cm on one segment, the whole process should take about 6 months from operation, to being able to walk again. For 7cm you would add a month.
Now to your main question, personally I would say that Dr Parihar is the better option in this case. I believe he was trained by Paley, is a very competent doctor and the people that chose him to perform the procedure have had relatively acceptable to good results.
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Based on my own experience, and keep in mind that I'm not done yet, I can totally recommend Dr, Monegal.
I'd say you would be able to walk between 1 to 2 months after the lengthening phase. Actually, 1 month after the lengthening phase is pretty realistic. However, you should consider what 682 said, no one can predict the future.
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Based on my own experience, and keep in mind that I'm not done yet, I can totally recommend Dr, Monegal.
I'd say you would be able to walk between 1 to 2 months after the lengthening phase. Actually, 1 month after the lengthening phase is pretty realistic. However, you should consider what 682 said, no one can predict the future.
Walk without a limp or anything like that?
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Do you like having a leg dispreparcy?
Do you enjoy implants without any weight bearing?
Would you like to be operated by a doctor that gets triggered by every bad opinion about him?
You came to the right place! Dr. Monegal will gladly operate you!
If you order your surgery now you will get additional lifetime wheelchair completly for free!!*
*Offer valid as long as stock lasts.
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Do you like having a leg dispreparcy?
Do you enjoy implants without any weight bearing?
Would you like to be operated by a doctor that gets triggered by every bad opinion about him?
You came to the right place! Dr. Monegal will gladly operate you!
If you order your surgery now you will get additional lifetime wheelchair completly for free!!*
*Offer valid as long as stock lasts.
Oh wow. Did you or someone you know have a bad experience with him?
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Do you like having a leg dispreparcy?
Do you enjoy implants without any weight bearing?
Would you like to be operated by a doctor that gets triggered by every bad opinion about him?
You came to the right place! Dr. Monegal will gladly operate you!
If you order your surgery now you will get additional lifetime wheelchair completly for free!!*
*Offer valid as long as stock lasts.
Do you mean leg discrepancy? I've a leg discrepancy because I chose too, the doctor operates both legs at the same time.
I've been walking with crutches since 3 days after surgery, not sure what you're on about the non weight bearing.
Also, the doctor has not been in the forum for a while.
And for the record, I'm enjoying my life more than you are enjoying yours, even with a leg discrepancy ;)
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See even his patients get triggered
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And for the record, I'm enjoying my life more than you are enjoying yours, even with a leg discrepancy ;)
I'm sorry about this statement, I never meant to make fun of someone who has attempted suicide.
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I'm sorry about this statement, I never meant to make fun of someone who has attempted suicide.
Can you add to this Auron? Why the negative comments about Monegal? Does he have bad reviews or whats up?
Im just assessing all my options.
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If I had to choose Dr Parihar or Dr Monegal I would choose Parihar because he uses Precice. Dr Monegal has many bad cases because his nail is bad. Some patients have had to have many surgeries due to nail problems. Many patients have also had problems with him as a doctor and personally because he blackmails and pushes patient to write positive reviews to fish more patients. He yells at patients if they write bad things according to Cinsontide.
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If I had to choose Dr Parihar or Dr Monegal I would choose Parihar because he uses Precice. Dr Monegal has many bad cases because his nail is bad. Some patients have had to have many surgeries due to nail problems. Many patients have also had problems with him as a doctor and personally because he blackmails and pushes patient to write positive reviews to fish more patients. He yells at patients if they write bad things according to Cinsontide.
Holy really?
Thats a bit odd.
The problem with Parihar is that he has only done one case of precise so Im wondering if his experience with precise will influence the outcome. Because he has only used precise on one patient.
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Can you add to this Auron? Why the negative comments about Monegal? Does he have bad reviews or whats up?
Im just assessing all my options.
There is a diary in this forum of a patient called Cooper who had a bad experience with Monegal, you can read his diary. I read his diary and still chose Monegal because I believed that many things tha were told in this forum were not the truth. I don't regret my decision and I'm sharing the results with everyone by writing my own diary.
*edit* You're new to this forum but Notimportant is an account of LLuser1, a user that got banned for spreading rumours about Monegal and his patients.
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Yyes you should read the forum carefully. Cooper is telling the truth in his diary. He's a brave guy. Other guys have had problems and don't tell the truth. You also have Musicmaker worst case in LL history according to this forum. Read carefully before taking a decision
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I'm not Lluser. He's banned and I'm not and I shouldn't because I have behaved propery.
Lluser was banned for being repetitive but he wasn't lying. IMO he shouldn't have been banned because rumors were authentic. He should have been given just a warn or two. Mods should reconsider his admission.
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I'm not Lluser. He's banned and I'm not and I shouldn't because I have behaved propery.
Lluser was banned for being repetitive but he wasn't lying. IMO he shouldn't have been banned because rumors were authentic. He should have been given just a warn or two. Mods should reconsider his admission.
He was banned for derailing threads that didn't concern Dr. Monegal into anti-Monegal flaming, and for spreading misinformation regarding the death of a patient. I wasn't a mod when this was done, but it seems fair.
I do however believe that he should've been issued a strict warning many months ago for derailing, which makes a ban more justifiable than letting someone do as they please and banning them all of a sudden for good.
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He antimonegal flaming but he didn't lie about the death of that person because one guy had a femur fracture and died in the guesthouse. Some patients said he wasn't a Monegal patient and Lluser admitted he wasn't. It's all in the thread.
Patients promote Fitbone and Dr Monegal because they have been told to.
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He antimonegal flaming but he didn't lie about the death of that person because one guy had a femur fracture and died in the guesthouse. Some patients said he wasn't a Monegal patient and Lluser admitted he wasn't. It's all in the thread.
Patients promote Fitbone and Dr Monegal because they have been told to.
A femur fracture can cause death?
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Yes it can if complications arise
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A femur fracture can cause death?
Depending on the fracture, you can internally bleed to death or die from fat embolism syndrome.
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I'm not Lluser.
Thank you for bluntly lying about your identity, it just helps me proving my point.
Patients promote Fitbone and Dr Monegal because they have been told to.
I don't know about the rules of this forum but spreading false information about a doctor like this should be forbidden.
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You Auron you're spreading false information when you say I'm Lluser.
The prmotion thing is not false information. I don't know if the doctor told you to promote him but he has done that in the past. He pushed people to write positive reviews and punished them when they posted negative aspects. Patients themselves posted this in the boards, Cinsomtide and Cooper and others.
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You Auron you're spreading false information when you say I'm Lluser.
The prmotion thing is not false information. I don't know if the doctor told you to promote him but he has done that in the past. He pushed people to write positive reviews and punished them when they posted negative aspects. Patients themselves posted this in the boards, Cinsomtide and Cooper and others.
The more you talk, the more obvious you are. Might as well call yourself Lluser2.
::)
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I think precise is a lot better than fitbone and parihar has had a better reputation in the forum.
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Everybody knows Precice is better than Fitbone in accuracy and Fitbone fails more often. The Fitbone nails is bad according to patients themselves. It fails often and it isn't accurate.
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I actually have a good relationship with Monegal, and will be getting the rod taken out in June
He did a good job with my deformity, and the hospital he works it is very clean and very modern. I can't say the same about my experience in India
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I actually have a good relationship with Monegal, and will be getting the rod taken out in June
He did a good job with my deformity, and the hospital he works it is very clean and very modern. I can't say the same about my experience in India
Did you have any complications with monegal?
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I am currently a patient of Dr. Monegal, just as Auron. I do not know much about Dr. Parihar, except from this forum. I had been in touch with Guichet and Betz before. I am a PhD myself and have studied limb lengthening at length before getting it done.
So let me weigh in on the discussion.
The biggest difference is between internal and external limb lengthening. For cosmetic limb lengthening you definitely want to go with internal.
Most common internal nails are Guichet nail, Betz nail, Fitbone and Precise. I do not know which one is best, but I decided for Fitbone for these reasons:
1. developed by cooperation of Dr. Baumgart, an person that worked before together with Guichet (you can see them together on Guichet’s website) and Wittenstein, a German manufacturer of precision engines
2. Read good review
3. Dr. Monegal explained me advantages of Guichet and Betz nail, and that he also could operate with Precise, which would pay him a lot of commission for each operation, but he prefers Fitbone for medical reasons
I had a problem but I do not blame them for this. However, I still have to see if they take full responsibility for the complications, so my final judgement on Fitbone, on if they are not only good engineers but also an ethical company, is still out; they are still investigating what happend.
I decided for Dr. Monegal for these reasons:
I did not see much difference between Dr. Monegal, Betz, Guichet, Paley etc.
I talked to him and he was able to convince me of his reputation and skill
So far none of the patients that I have personally met have told me that in hindsight they might have chosen a different doctor. Even Musicmaker, a friend of mine, says she might not have done operation if she would have known complications but she would not have chosen a different doctor.
I decided against any doctor from outside Western Europe and US, because I am still a bit scared of surgery in a developing country.
Anybody, who thinks I am getting pushed by Dr. Monegal to write this, could just write me, or Auron or Musicmaker, for a private opinion.
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Did you have any complications with monegal?
He did LL in India and had complications. Dr Monegal offered to fix him for a price. He had his surgery and while in hospital he complained in the forum about not feeling his leg. Dr Monegal came to his room to yell at him for writing that in the forum. Cinsotide has complained in the board Dr Monegal doesnt' answer when he can't take profit of him.
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I am currently a patient of Dr. Monegal, just as Auron. I do not know much about Dr. Parihar, except from this forum. I had been in touch with Guichet and Betz before. I am a PhD myself and have studied limb lengthening at length before getting it done.
So let me weigh in on the discussion.
The biggest difference is between internal and external limb lengthening. For cosmetic limb lengthening you definitely want to go with internal.
Most common internal nails are Guichet nail, Betz nail, Fitbone and Precise. I do not know which one is best, but I decided for Fitbone for these reasons:
1. developed by cooperation of Dr. Baumgart, an person that worked before together with Guichet (you can see them together on Guichet’s website) and Wittenstein, a German manufacturer of precision engines
2. Read good review
3. Dr. Monegal explained me advantages of Guichet and Betz nail, and that he also could operate with Precise, which would pay him a lot of commission for each operation, but he prefers Fitbone for medical reasons
I had a problem but I do not blame them for this. However, I still have to see if they take full responsibility for the complications, so my final judgement on Fitbone, on if they are not only good engineers but also an ethical company, is still out; they are still investigating what happend.
I decided for Dr. Monegal for these reasons:
I did not see much difference between Dr. Monegal, Betz, Guichet, Paley etc.
I talked to him and he was able to convince me of his reputation and skill
So far none of the patients that I have personally met have told me that in hindsight they might have chosen a different doctor. Even Musicmaker, a friend of mine, says she might not have done operation if she would have known complications but she would not have chosen a different doctor.
I decided against any doctor from outside Western Europe and US, because I am still a bit scared of surgery in a developing country.
Anybody, who thinks I am getting pushed by Dr. Monegal to write this, could just write me, or Auron or Musicmaker, for a private opinion.
My biggest concern is dying or having my legs amputated. And from what notimportant says that kind of worries me.
Do you have any sources to verify what you say notimportant?
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I am currently a patient of Dr. Monegal, just as Auron. I do not know much about Dr. Parihar, except from this forum. I had been in touch with Guichet and Betz before. I am a PhD myself and have studied limb lengthening at length before getting it done.
So let me weigh in on the discussion.
The biggest difference is between internal and external limb lengthening. For cosmetic limb lengthening you definitely want to go with internal.
Most common internal nails are Guichet nail, Betz nail, Fitbone and Precise. I do not know which one is best, but I decided for Fitbone for these reasons:
1. developed by cooperation of Dr. Baumgart, an person that worked before together with Guichet (you can see them together on Guichet’s website) and Wittenstein, a German manufacturer of precision engines
2. Read good review
3. Dr. Monegal explained me advantages of Guichet and Betz nail, and that he also could operate with Precise, which would pay him a lot of commission for each operation, but he prefers Fitbone for medical reasons
I had a problem but I do not blame them for this. However, I still have to see if they take full responsibility for the complications, so my final judgement on Fitbone, on if they are not only good engineers but also an ethical company, is still out; they are still investigating what happend.
I decided for Dr. Monegal for these reasons:
I did not see much difference between Dr. Monegal, Betz, Guichet, Paley etc.
I talked to him and he was able to convince me of his reputation and skill
So far none of the patients that I have personally met have told me that in hindsight they might have chosen a different doctor. Even Musicmaker, a friend of mine, says she might not have done operation if she would have known complications but she would not have chosen a different doctor.
I decided against any doctor from outside Western Europe and US, because I am still a bit scared of surgery in a developing country.
Anybody, who thinks I am getting pushed by Dr. Monegal to write this, could just write me, or Auron or Musicmaker, for a private opinion.
I don't expect Auron or Musicmaker to tell the truth because they are current patients like Helloworld. That's like asking Dr Monegal himself. Waste of time
Dr Baumgart deveoped his Fitbone with Betz, not Guichet. Baumgart and Guichet have been together in LL meetings but didn't develop a nail together. You aren't as informed as you say. Your Phd not in medicine
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My biggest concern is dying or having my legs amputated. And from what notimportant says that kind of worries me.
Do you have any sources to verify what you say notimportant?
About cinsomtide's words? See his own diary in this forum.
if the numbness stays past a few days, I'm going to be an extremely difficult patient
no reason for numbness in this procedure, unless a mistake was made.. waiting months means ill have it forever
i don't believe in waiting and seeing... nerve damage rarely gets better
i didn't have numbness in russia after, so i don't accept this is just a normal occurrence
i can move all toes, etc but still... its not comfortable to have a foot that feels partly asleep
no pain either, but still
I'm going to be extremely upset if this doesn't resolve in the next day or 2
i guess my fibula was broken too, so theres a screw down there as well.. i guess this is normal
i just want the numbness to go away,and see the x ray
truthfully, if everything else was a success, but my ankle and foot feel asleep forever, i'm going to judge this surgery a disaster
i can have my leg operated and not have to get numb
but we will see, it's very early still... i just don't listen to drs that tell me everything is ok, and accept this with no problems... every single dr I've ever been to says that, even when something is not normal.. It's nothing personal against anyone, I'm just used to drs telling me wait, it'll be ok
well, the left leg is not well
i limp, and cant walk on it much, as he foot hurts
ankle arthritis doesnt really hurt yet, but limits movement.. theres definitely still a deformity in my left leg
when i walk downstairs especially, my left foot and leg go outward.
weak overall as well
I'm gonna see Paley then decide
This will be my last, or next to last post
I wanna give advice to the members here
I can be rude sometimes, but it's only because I know how dangerous this surgery is
Ij get very aggravated when I see members being lied to about this surgery, or claimed great recoveries with zero evidence
I went through this surgery, as did others such as Sweden
My walking is still very bad, and already had a consultation with a prosthetist, and Dr. about below the knee amputation
My push off power has a severe deficit
I see some of these new patient threads, and they resemble infomercials
Do not get your medical advice from this site.
You may dislike me, but I'm telling you all the truth.
This surgery is not safe. You may get an ok outcome, you may get a very bad outcome. The odds are overwhelming that you will never be close to 100% again, and you will realize your life has not changed as much as you thought it would
Good luck to all,
Crimson
I'll tell you another thing. Certain Dr's become much less responsive after you announce you're leaving the forum
Cooper also said:
Monegal Issues:
1) Dishonest: He did not disclose all the information and lied on patient count and his experience. He emailed he performed 600 bone segments. Come to find out I was third tibia patient. One of his patient told me in Spain everyone lies. His manipulates deliberately and black mailed his patient to write good things about him and defend him as often as necessary. You cannot trust this doctor and his patient specially from Spain!!!
2) Unethical: If you are not honest than you do not have ethics. Especially in this profession you want to go to doctor who respects patient rights, if something is not right than let the patient know and possible solution to fix. Just not to say everything will be ok. You need more time.
3) Poor Osteotomy: Most of his patient has issue with callous formation. Interesting part is all of the patient with few exceptions are lengthening less than 6cm. Still have poor bone formation. I have both fibula and tibia non-union and misalignment. Grafted both and I gained only 5.3com. I thought I did 6 but the x-ray show 5.3com.
4) Poor logistics: When I had my surgery I was in recovery room for long time. He could not find me and went home without meeting me in person. He later phoned me to say everything went ok. They forgot to put catheter and I did not pee for long time. I screamed and used profanity to get attention at the hospital. The epidural was not turned on and I was in pain for long time. Nursed blamed me tempering with epidural and told monegal I shut it off.
5) Pain management: I was in 10/10 pain level during first night. The worst pain of my life. Nurses and caretaker does not know how to manage pain. Their respond will be ‘that is normal’. On my last two surgery my pain level never went more than 2/3.
6) Fibula bone: For monegal fibula bone is not important and ok to have non-union. Even mentioned he can take fibula bone put some place else for bone lengthening while I was in Spain. Fibula is sort of extra bone put in reserve. Such a stupid comment coming from surgeon. His action is not to do anything regarding my fibula non-union.
7) Forum: He is using forum to fish new patient and anyone raised flag he tries to shut him off either by himself or through his patient. He gets mad to his patient if anyone writes bad thing and continuously monitor forum thread. He probably spends more time in forum than any of us out here.
8) His Patients: most of his patients are good people by heart. We all come from same height neurosis industry and wanting to get taller. I feel forum is fraternity to support each other. This doctor is exploiting forum to his advantage. We need to stop him. I am still in contact with few of them. They need him to fix the issue, correct whatever complication and have to oblige whatever he asks them to write. I would not be surprised if few of his patients come to this thread and try to defend him.
9) Complication: Almost all of his patient has some complications. Many of them cannot walk without crutches. Complications includes but not limited to premature fitbone fracture, fitbone malfunctions, loose screws, serious nerve issue, misalignment and unkown. Unknown are other complications which patient does not know because they have not seen other LL specialist.
Suggestion to Forum Moderator:
Ban monegal effective immediately and stop any patient going to him wherever possible. If I can save one life, leg or limb than I feel my diary has serve good for this community. Why let dishonest/crook surgeon come to forum and exploit the harmony of forum and most importantly destroyed people lives. I intentionally write ‘lives’ because it is not only one patient it’s the entire family involve.
Complications are well known by everybody in this forum
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About cinsomtide's words? See his own diary in this forum.
Cooper also said:
Complications are well known by everybody in this forum
Wow. Thank you for this.
Did these patients provide proof? X-rays, documents, pics, etc?
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He did LL in India and had complications. Dr Monegal offered to fix him for a price. He had his surgery and while in hospital he complained in the forum about not feeling his leg. Dr Monegal came to his room to yell at him for writing that in the forum. Cinsotide has complained in the board Dr Monegal doesnt' answer when he can't take profit of him.
He did fix him in the end though... Atleast that's what Crimsone said (or atleast what I understood)
Edit: Also, dont mix difficulties during treatments with end result.. If we would consider difficulties during lengthening than all doctors would be considered ty in every kind of surgery ever (from LL to rhinoplasty)
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Doctor monegal is a very good option.
The problem in this surgery is the recovery,it is very long.
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Doctor monegal is a very good option.
The problem in this surgery is the recovery,it is very long.
Have you had experience with monegal paco?
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Yes this guy had experience in tibia with Dr Monegal some years ago. His screw was loose. He hid this fact and Cooper was angry he was a liar like Musicmaker. Spanish people liars. Then Pacos' nail was broken and leg deformed and nail had to be replaced. He posted in Spanish in the forum about this. Then Musicmaker replied and their messages of both were deleted. So weird. Cinsomtide explained the case in one post.
Are you recoveedr after so many years Paco?
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An image is worth more than a thousand words.
This week i'm doing one video and you can do your own conclusion.
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The quotes notimportant has found in those users threads are quite concerning. It's not fair to state that he's a liar when he's literally quoting other users who have been with Monegal who have stated their complications - the comment about CrimsonTide considering amputation was especially alarming, how you will likely never be near 100% and always have issues - why would he say this if he wasn't being honest?
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I don't expect Auron or Musicmaker to tell the truth because they are current patients like Helloworld. That's like asking Dr Monegal himself. Waste of time
By your logic then, 99,99% of the diaries here by current patients of Paley, Guichet, Parihar, etc are a waste of time?
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I've read crimsontide's thread about tibia correction with dr Monegal and although the first days was anxious about the outcome of the surgery, on his last posts he said that his bones were corrected and he is doing much better than before.
Also, from the Xrays I saw in 2 recent Monegal's diaries (Auron and Helloworld I think) I don't see anything bad. Relatively good callus formation, straight femurs and generally speaking, nothing abnormal.
And after all, putting a nail in femurs is by no way something very hard for an experienced doctor so I can't see why some doctors like Guichet want some huge amounts of money while doctors like Monegal have more logical prices with even better nails (of course Fitbone is more advanced than Guichetnail).
I want to see more diaries from dr Monegal's patients to have a more clear opinion about him but from what I saw I think he is a good choice taking in mind his price and that his clinic is in Barcelona, one of the most advanced cities in Europe.
India, even if Parihar is a capable doctor (something I don't know because we've seen only one patient's diary from him) wouldn't be an option for me because it is a third world country with a very unhealthy environment and laws that don't protect patients from doctors faults.
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I probably do tibias next summer, If a patient repeat with the same doctor, it is a the best trust in him. I think tibias are more dificult than femurs because the ankle has three axis movement and knee just two axis. Even Iamready with Paley needed a second surgery to improve the aligment
It seems that the main problems for some users is the fitbone, but Dr Monegal offered me fitbone or Precise. You can chose.
I would like to see a diary with a patient of Monegal and Precise.
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Monegal has done much more internal lengthenings than Parihar. And Barcelona Is a much more advanced city than Mumbai . If i have to choose again i would go with Monegal. Tibia lengthening Is much more dificult than fémur lengthening. We could see that guichet doesnt do tibias and a very renowed doctor like paley have problems doing It. Like we have seen in iamready diary. If you do femurs with Monegal you may probably have a good outcome. Tibias Is not as safe as femurs and is more probably to have problems. For me if i do tibias in the future i Will try with internals or LON. I dont see external only as an option. But you have to aceppt that Its more probably to have more problems/surgeries and worst recovery doing tibias.
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For those of you seriously considering Dr. Monegal over Dr. Parihar.
Click on the link and read through this info....http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2454.msg51176#msg51176
Update:
I had very bad experience with Tibia lengthening. I made terrible mistake of doing tibia with Monegal. I probably went through worst ultimate nightmares. I usually write Dr. in front of him but he lost that honorary title long time ago. Ever since I came to US I had some nuisances about right tibia. It felt something did not go well. But I was giving benefit of doubt. I have been telling all LLers’ through private chat tibia should be easy and since this is one leg I should have much better experience than femur.
Late last year I went to see Dr. Rozbruch in New York to check on tibia. Immediately after reading x-ray he pointed out 3 major issues. 1) Provactum tibia bone curving 2) Fibula migrated up. When the monegal fixate tibia and fib bones he somehow pushed the fibula up and fixate. The angulation is not correct this is major issue out of three 3) low callous and possible non-union 4) lost nerve on feet about 25% (not major but had to fix). Dr. R advised to fixed all three and his assistant wrote a note which I forwarded monegal right away. I asked precisely to Dr. R what can be done with him. The answer was reverse everything and put external fixator for tibia and small monorail for tibia and lengthen. I was devastated to hear that!
I emailed monegal and hoped he can correct the issue. But he denied any of that need fix. Similar response to Crimson: ‘everything is fine' and keep lengthening to your desire 5.5cm. He also advised me not see any LL specialist. I told him ok. But I was not stupid. I knew by then I have major issues and I was only about 3.5cm. I keep lengthening and start looking for a solution to fix right leg and lengthen left leg. I was determined to get it done in US because I cannot take more chances.
The two US doctor I communicated:
1) Paley : first chastised me for going for inexperience doctor second the complication is major and will require more time and money to fix. His recommendation is take out the fitbone, put external fixator to not to loose the distraction gained, inserted non lengthening rod, lengthen fibula by 1cm, plated fibula, fixated tibia/fibula, bone grafted tibia and fibula for non-union, nerve decompression and put new non lengthening rod. He estimated about $100K for fix and left leg lengthening with precise.
2) Rozbruch: fist he did not want to help and asked me to go my first surgeon. I told him monegal is not capable of fixing and cannot be trusted. He said he will help. Cost about the same.
I also contacted few other doctors and everyone agreed on the three issues.
I picked one of the US doctor and currently in recovering. I am not disclosing anything yet and will let you know eventually.
Monegal Issues:
1) Dishonest: He did not disclose all the information and lied on patient count and his experience. He emailed he performed 600 bone segments. Come to find out I was third tibia patient. One of his patient told me in Spain everyone lies. His manipulates deliberately and black mailed his patient to write good things about him and defend him as often as necessary. You cannot trust this doctor and his patient specially from Spain!!!
2) Unethical: If you are not honest than you do not have ethics. Especially in this profession you want to go to doctor who respects patient rights, if something is not right than let the patient know and possible solution to fix. Just not to say everything will be ok. You need more time.
3) Poor Osteotomy: Most of his patient has issue with callous formation. Interesting part is all of the patient with few exceptions are lengthening less than 6cm. Still have poor bone formation. I have both fibula and tibia non-union and misalignment. Grafted both and I gained only 5.3com. I thought I did 6 but the x-ray show 5.3com.
4) Poor logistics: When I had my surgery I was in recovery room for long time. He could not find me and went home without meeting me in person. He later phoned me to say everything went ok. They forgot to put catheter and I did not pee for long time. I screamed and used profanity to get attention at the hospital. The epidural was not turned on and I was in pain for long time. Nursed blamed me tempering with epidural and told monegal I shut it off.
5) Pain management: I was in 10/10 pain level during first night. The worst pain of my life. Nurses and caretaker does not know how to manage pain. Their respond will be ‘that is normal’. On my last two surgery my pain level never went more than 2/3.
6) Fibula bone: For monegal fibula bone is not important and ok to have non-union. Even mentioned he can take fibula bone put some place else for bone lengthening while I was in Spain. Fibula is sort of extra bone put in reserve. Such a stupid comment coming from surgeon. His action is not to do anything regarding my fibula non-union.
7) Forum: He is using forum to fish new patient and anyone raised flag he tries to shut him off either by himself or through his patient. He gets mad to his patient if anyone writes bad thing and continuously monitor forum thread. He probably spends more time in forum than any of us out here.
8) His Patients: most of his patients are good people by heart. We all come from same height neurosis industry and wanting to get taller. I feel forum is fraternity to support each other. This doctor is exploiting forum to his advantage. We need to stop him. I am still in contact with few of them. They need him to fix the issue, correct whatever complication and have to oblige whatever he asks them to write. I would not be surprised if few of his patients come to this thread and try to defend him.
9) Complication: Almost all of his patient has some complications. Many of them cannot walk without crutches. Complications includes but not limited to premature fitbone fracture, fitbone malfunctions, loose screws, serious nerve issue, misalignment and unkown. Unknown are other complications which patient does not know because they have not seen other LL specialist.
Suggestion to Forum Moderator:
Ban monegal effective immediately and stop any patient going to him wherever possible. If I can save one life, leg or limb than I feel my diary has serve good for this community. Why let dishonest/crook surgeon come to forum and exploit the harmony of forum and most importantly destroyed people lives. I intentionally write ‘lives’ because it is not only one patient it’s the entire family involve.
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The only reason anyone is still considering Dr. Monegal is because he offers a cheap price for internals. That's it! No other reason!
If he charged standard European prices then no one would consider him after all the negative information that has come out. Cooper is just one person of many who has told us to stay away from Dr. Monegal after experiencing horrific problems. It's all about saving a few thousand dollars by going to Dr. Monegal while risking your ability to walk and function normally for the rest of your life. As if any amount of money is worth that risk.
Yes only one patient did not complain. All the rest has some sort of issues. The part worries me is he does not recognize the mistake and fights really hard to make his point and he is right. Dr. Rozbruch is top surgeon and he thinks his recommendation has flaws and not necessary. Dr. Paley and other top Doctor all saw the issue with my right leg. For Monegal it was normal. He clearly have no idea or knowledge. He did not even recognize the issue. All he could say Is everything will be alright. Such a false hope on desperate time.
I took silical boost and vitamin d. Lengthen merely 5cm. And still non Union on tibia and fibula bone. Just did not get it. Callous formation is also heavily dependent upon surgeon technique of osteotomy.
I was within safe boundary, regular PT, vitamins and good diet still has major issues. Careful guys this is not joke. And please do lot of research. If you have any doubt regarding surgeon than do not do it.
I made a mistake. I thought i could save about $50k going to Spain. He appeared experience, some LL patient on this forum and Spain is in Europe. He emailed nicely and explained in long email. I have some doubt but thought i should be OK and it's only one leg. Also thought European doctors and medical are equivalent to US. Dead wrong. In Spain everyone lies-- per one Spanish friend. With very successful surgery with Dr. Paley i thought i do not need to go top LL surgeon. Terrible mistake and worst decision of my life!
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Cooper is just one person of many who has told us to stay away from Dr. Monegal after experiencing horrific problems.
That is a strong statement. So, who are these many patients that told us to stay away from Dr. Monegal besides Cooper?
So far, and judging by this thread alone, there're about 6 Monegal patients (current and old patients) giving positive feedback about Dr. Monegal and 0 Monegal patients giving bad feedback about Dr. Monegal.
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So far, and judging by this thread alone, there're about 6 Monegal patients (current and old patients) giving positive feedback about Dr. Monegal and 0 Monegal patients giving bad feedback about Dr. Monegal.
As i said Monegal is the best doctor if you want to sit in a wheelchair for good 3 years.
You know, so you can give some positive feedback afterwards.
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As i said Monegal is the best doctor if you want to sit in a wheelchair for good 3 years.
You know, so you can give some positive feedback afterwards.
And what is the basis of your opinion? Have you done it with him before? Do you know have any proof?
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As i said Monegal is the best doctor if you want to sit in a wheelchair for good 3 years.
You know, so you can give some positive feedback afterwards.
I am not trying to discount your claims but for every claim there needs to be proof. Based off the info from this threads, most Monegal patients seem to have high praise for him. Could he have messed up a person or two? Its very possible, just as any top doc can .
However, when making such a big claim we need evidence or proof in the form of multiple patients, xrays, pictures, video, etc. All these can be done while still remaining anonymous.
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The only reason anyone is still considering Dr. Monegal is because he offers a cheap price for internals. That's it! No other reason!
If he charged standard European prices then no one would consider him after all the negative information that has come out. Cooper is just one person of many who has told us to stay away from Dr. Monegal after experiencing horrific problems. It's all about saving a few thousand dollars by going to Dr. Monegal while risking your ability to walk and function normally for the rest of your life. As if any amount of money is worth that risk.
Of course the price with Dr. Monegal is one of the attractive reasons to go with him; that's why this thread is called Dr. Parihar vs Dr. Monegal, and not Dr. Paley vs Dr. Monegal. Not everyone can be millionaires! Like everything else in life, there are pros and cons.
But there are many other reasons to go with Dr. Monegal over Dr. Parihar:
1. Experience with internal rods for LL is higher
2. Quality of surgical team, ICU, and hospital is higher
3. Recovery experience in Barcelona is better
All those criticising Dr. Monegal based on Cooper's comments are using hearsay, none of them have actually done LL with him, and are simply guilty of selective bias as they are ignoring all the good comments about Dr. Monegal.
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Of course the price with Dr. Monegal is one of the attractive reasons to go with him; that's why this thread is called Dr. Parihar vs Dr. Monegal, and not Dr. Paley vs Dr. Monegal. Not everyone can be millionaires! Like everything else in life, there are pros and cons.
But there are many other reasons to go with Dr. Monegal over Dr. Parihar:
1. Experience with internal rods for LL is higher
2. Quality of surgical team, ICU, and hospital is higher
3. Recovery experience in Barcelona is better
All those criticising Dr. Monegal based on Cooper's comments are using hearsay, none of them have actually done LL with him, and are simply guilty of selective bias as they are ignoring all the good comments about Dr. Monegal.
I agree with all this. However one thing that does worry me is the fact that one of his patients considered amputation. That is freaking scary
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Bodybuilder and TBIKE have posted accurate information regarding my current status
Members should go by what I say now, not when I was very depressed and still early in my recovery
Limb Lengthening takes a very very long time to recover from. I'd say if you lengthen tibia over 6 cm, it's not unreasonable to still be recovering 2.5 years later. This is the reality
Members should also take into account that correcting my deformity meant breaking my leg again and placing a rod into it. I was not realistic about recovery time as I had already been recovering well over a year when I had the rod inserted. Psychologically, I could not handle the reality.
Recovering from a broken tibia can take a year or more to recover from for an otherwise healthy person. My legs had suffered extreme trauma already, so recovery took even longer. Look at my writing style back then and you can see how distressed I was. I could barely type
I am not 100% yet, not even 80%, but that is not due to Monegal. I walk now without a limp or if there is one, it is so tiny as to not be perceived. My push off is poor, ankles seem a bit loose, I have a very slight length discrepancy, and some minor nerve issues with my left foot. All of this occurred before Monegal. My situation with regard to these 3 issues did not worsen after he corrected my leg. I did have a deformed looking left leg and had a noticeable limp which I do not have now. I also suffer no knee pain. I mean none, zero.
If my tibia is not 100% aligned, it has to be close to that number.
I'm not saying Monegal is perfect, or that I was happy 100% of the time with him, but I have a good relationship with him that is based entirely on the outcome of my surgery
This is how I feel as of February 20, 2017
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I don't expect Auron or Musicmaker to tell the truth because they are current patients like Helloworld. That's like asking Dr Monegal himself. Waste of time.
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Both are my friends, and I am sure they are telling the truth.
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Dr Baumgart deveoped his Fitbone with Betz, not Guichet. Baumgart and Guichet have been together in LL meetings but didn't develop a nail together.
I guess you are right about this. But at least, Baumgart was well aware of the Guichet technology and decided he did not want a mechanical clicking but an engine inside the implants.
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You aren't as informed as you say.
I think I am, but you have done a lot of research as well!
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Your Phd not in medicine.
I admit that.
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Bodybuilder and TBIKE have posted accurate information regarding my current status
Members should go by what I say now, not when I was very depressed and still early in my recovery
Limb Lengthening takes a very very long time to recover from. I'd say if you lengthen tibia over 6 cm, it's not unreasonable to still be recovering 2.5 years later. This is the reality
Members should also take into account that correcting my deformity meant breaking my leg again and placing a rod into it. I was not realistic about recovery time as I had already been recovering well over a year when I had the rod inserted. Psychologically, I could not handle the reality.
Recovering from a broken tibia can take a year or more to recover from for an otherwise healthy person. My legs had suffered extreme trauma already, so recovery took even longer. Look at my writing style back then and you can see how distressed I was. I could barely type
I am not 100% yet, not even 80%, but that is not due to Monegal. I walk now without a limp or if there is one, it is so tiny as to not be perceived. My push off is poor, ankles seem a bit loose, I have a very slight length discrepancy, and some minor nerve issues with my left foot. All of this occurred before Monegal. My situation with regard to these 3 issues did not worsen after he corrected my leg. I did have a deformed looking left leg and had a noticeable limp which I do not have now. I also suffer no knee pain. I mean none, zero.
If my tibia is not 100% aligned, it has to be close to that number.
I'm not saying Monegal is perfect, or that I was happy 100% of the time with him, but I have a good relationship with him that is based entirely on the outcome of my surgery
This is how I feel as of February 20, 2017
Crimsontide, great to hear from you.
Do you think that if you would have done Femur instead, the outcome would have been different? Do you feel that you would have recovered faster.
What if you did 5.5 cm to the femur?
Your answers are invaluable to us that are looking to see Dr Monegal. I have heard that deaths and potential amputations have been considered by patients of his.
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Since this is an open forum and we are allowed and encouraged to give our honest opinions, then here is mine.
Dr. Monegal has already ruined two of his patients lives, and these are just the ones we know about. Musicmaker and Cooper. Fortunately for Cooper he went to Dr. Rozbrusch and Dr. Paley to fix the horrific mistakes of Dr. Monegal, and have the ability to live life like a normal human being again. Musicmaker has stuck with Dr. Monegal and she is still living life like a cripple. How many more patients of Dr. Monegal ended up just like Musicmaker and Cooper that we don't know about? Nobody knows...
Let's not forget Musicmaker was lying about her condition to everyone on this forum to protect Dr. Monegal until she had to confess that she's been living life in a wheelchair for years. We all know why patients of Dr. Monegal withhold information or put out only positive information about him, because Dr. Monegal monitors this forum. We know this because of the following sentence i'm about to type.
Dr. Monegal responds to posts on this forum like he is a child throwing a temper tantrum. He has said about half a dozen times that he will no longer respond or post on this forum. Sure enough a little time goes by and here he comes to post again and throw another temper tantrum.
Anyone who considers Dr. Monegal is very simply looking for a way to save money and have surgery in Europe because they think it's safer just because it's Europe. Well, Cooper and Musicmaker and countless other suffering unnamed patients of Dr. Monegal thought that the same thing, and we all know how that turned out...
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Since this is an open forum and we are allowed and encouraged to give our honest opinions, then here is mine.
Dr. Monegal has already ruined two of his patients lives, and these are just the ones we know about. Musicmaker and Cooper. Fortunately for Cooper he went to Dr. Rozbrusch and Dr. Paley to fix the horrific mistakes of Dr. Monegal, and have the ability to live life like a normal human being again. Musicmaker has stuck with Dr. Monegal and she is still living life like a cripple. How many more patients of Dr. Monegal ended up just like Musicmaker and Cooper that we don't know about? Nobody knows...
Let's not forget Musicmaker was lying about her condition to everyone on this forum to protect Dr. Monegal until she had to confess that she's been living life in a wheelchair for years. We all know why patients of Dr. Monegal withhold information or put out only positive information about him, because Dr. Monegal monitors this forum. We know this because of the following sentence i'm about to type.
Dr. Monegal responds to posts on this forum like he is a child throwing a temper tantrum. He has said about half a dozen times that he will no longer respond or post on this forum. Sure enough a little time goes by and here he comes to post again and throw another temper tantrum.
Anyone who considers Dr. Monegal is very simply looking for a way to save money and have surgery in Europe because they think it's safer just because it's Europe. Well, Cooper and Musicmaker and countless other suffering unnamed patients of Dr. Monegal thought that the same thing, and we all know how that turned out...
I'd take your "opinions" seriously if you could back up your statements. I'm still waiting for you to answer my previous question.
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How many of you have had your nail removed and don't need the doctor anymore? None. You still here because you depend on him.
The difference with other doctors is Dr Monegal is monitoring the forum all day. Other doctors don't care and you can take their patients' opinions more seriously.
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I don't need Monegal anymore. I have a rod currently in me leg that could be left in forever
How many of you have had your nail removed and don't need the doctor anymore? None. You still here because you depend on him.
The difference with other doctors is Dr Monegal is monitoring the forum all day. Other doctors don't care and you can take their patients' opinions more seriously.
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You`re full of contradictions. If the rod can stay forever why do you want it to be removed? You said you are having the rod removed by Monegal in June. So you need to be in good terms with him to get a good price ... and nobody wants to be in bad terms withe the surgeon who will operate on them. Cooper went to a different doctor so he didn't depend on him anymore. Let's wait until rods are removed and people can tell the truth. For the moment I wouldn't trust Fibone and Monegal
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I heard before that mongeal woulf be willing to do precise. I wonder if it would be for the same price though.
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Monegal can get Precice, however, the price cant be the same as the nails cost more.
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Yes., the rod can stay in forever. That's just a fact. You can ask a surgeon if you wish
I was not going to have the rod removed, but removing the screws will perhaps make my ankle a bit less stiff. Not 100% positive, but since rod removal is a very minor surgery with very minimal risk, might as well get it done to see if anything improves.
I'm in New York btw and could have the surgery done here since Insurance would cover it. It is a very minor procedure. I want to visit Barcelona for personal reasons, so might as well kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
You are very annoying, and like to be rude on the internet. I find you very boring and tedious. You have never met me, and know nothing about me. You seem to imply that I can't say the truth, which would come as a big surprise to everyone that knows me
Furthermore, my diary contradicts this narrative. I posted negatively about Monegal WHILE I WAS IN HIS HOSPITAL WITH A BROKEN LEG. Yet, somehow even though I'm now a few thousand miles away and walking, I can't post the truth out of fear.
You obviously have some kind of obsession with Monegal. Perhaps you have valid reasons, but I don't give a about your issues.
I don't care what you say about Monegal , but don't act as if you know me or have any knowledge of my condition other than what I post.
You`re full of contradictions. If the rod can stay forever why do you want it to be removed? You said you are having the rod removed by Monegal in June. So you need to be in good terms with him to get a good price ... and nobody wants to be in bad terms withe the surgeon who will operate on them. Cooper went to a different doctor so he didn't depend on him anymore. Let's wait until rods are removed and people can tell the truth. For the moment I wouldn't trust Fibone and Monegal
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btw crimson, now that you are in a much more calmed state (I can only imagine in what state you were before... considering amputation and all...), how is your feeling towards this surgery and all this height obssesion?
You can answer me via pm if you wish
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How many of you have had your nail removed and don't need the doctor anymore? None. You still here because you depend on him.
The difference with other doctors is Dr Monegal is monitoring the forum all day. Other doctors don't care and you can take their patients' opinions more seriously.
Dear LLuser,
You sound like nail removal is a risky operation but any skilled trauma doctor can do it. If he was a bad doctor we wouldnt even have the nail removed by him.
Furthermore, if I was Dr. Monegal I'd probably be thanking you because due to your false accusations, 8 patients felt the need to defend their doctor from you and by doing that you created a thread that in just 2 pages doctor Monegal has 100% positive feedback from 8 patients. Hard to find elsewhere.
Next time you try to defame a doctor by badmouthing him and his patients, make sure it doesn't back fire.
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How many of you have had your nail removed and don't need the doctor anymore? None. You still here because you depend on him.
The difference with other doctors is Dr Monegal is monitoring the forum all day. Other doctors don't care and you can take their patients' opinions more seriously.
Are you aware of the inconsistency of your statements? By your logic then, all the patients who still depend on their doctor would defend him so as not to annoy him. So why would Crimsontide, in the past while in Barcelona and depended much more on Dr. Monegal, criticise him then? And now that he has become more, not less, independent of Dr. Monegal (as he is in NY), why would he defend him and return to him now?
And what about all the Paley, Guichet and Parihar patients who still depend on their doctor? Are you saying they are also lying so as not to annoy their doctor?
You further say that this is because of all the doctors, only Dr. Monegal monitors the forum and imply that this is a threat to the patients' independence to comment. If that is so, why would Dr. Monegal accept Crimsontide as a patient again?
Has it ever occurred to you that it would be good for a doctor to care about his patients' opinions of him?
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I'd never choose Dr Monegal after all the real bad criticism, some very bad private opinions (the patients are scared to post) and some Xrays I've seen in private but your legs your decision. Good night
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I'd never choose Dr Monegal after all the real bad criticism, some very bad private opinions (the patients are scared to post) and some Xrays I've seen in private but your legs your decision. Good night
Its not your statements that bother people. It's your lack of proof. If you had proof people here would be thanking you and we would indeed see Monegal as a red flag.
But you are just saying stuff without any solid proof. I can do the same about any doctor. When we ask for proof you say to look at past diaries of other limb lengtheners. But if those same people are now saying they are happy now, then you dismiss that too.
It's like you are biased. Anything bad about monegal you take it in and anything good about him you just filter out and choose to ignore.
I could just as easily say the same stuff about Paley and just look for bad stuff about him and ignore the good stuff. I could do that with anybody but if I don't have actual solid proof like videos x-rays pictures, then people would dismiss my claims and rightfully so.
Everything you say is suspect because lack of proof. You say that you have seen x-rays. But that's not proof. That's just you making a statement
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I have noticed a lot of people mentioning the need for proof. Ok. Lets all take a look at the proof.
Proof...Cooper had to go to Dr. Rozbrusch and Dr. Paley after surgery with Dr. Monegal ruined his legs and almost turned him into a cripple. I have posted the link to his patient experience and his personal quotes. But what the hell, why not just post it again so everyone can see the proof.
Proof....http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2454.msg51176#msg51176
Proof...Musicmaker is still living life in a wheelchair after YEARS of being under the "care" of Dr. Monegal. Do not forget she lied about how bad her condition was until the PROOF was overwhelming that Dr. Monegal ruined her legs and she is living life like a cripple. Nothing screams stay away from this doctor more than a patient lying about their awful condition to protect the doctor.
So go ahead and have your surgery with Dr. Monegal. You will love all the money you are saving and you will feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that because it is Europe you are safe. As I have said before, that is exactly what Cooper and Musicmaker thought, and we know how that turned out thanks to all the PROOF...
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I have noticed a lot of people mentioning the need for proof. Ok. Lets all take a look at the proof.
Proof...Cooper had to go to Dr. Rozbrusch and Dr. Paley after surgery with Dr. Monegal ruined his legs and almost turned him into a cripple. I have posted the link to his patient experience and his personal quotes. But what the hell, why not just post it again so everyone can see the proof.
Proof....http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2454.msg51176#msg51176
Proof...Musicmaker is still living life in a wheelchair after YEARS of being under the "care" of Dr. Monegal. Do not forget she lied about how bad her condition was until the PROOF was overwhelming that Dr. Monegal ruined her legs and she is living life like a cripple. Nothing screams stay away from this doctor more than a patient lying about their awful condition to protect the doctor.
So go ahead and have your surgery with Dr. Monegal. You will love all the money you are saving and you will feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that because it is Europe you are safe. As I have said before, that is exactly what Cooper and Musicmaker thought, and we know how that turned out thanks to all the PROOF...
Yeah this would definitely count as some proof. I wont deny that lol
Thank you Rod Thick
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So like, what are the good points of the doctor in India then? Everybody's discussing the other guy and one doctor is just being ignored lol
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So like, what are the good points of the doctor in India then? Everybody's discussing the other guy and one doctor is just being ignored lol
It's just typical monegal drama, standard stuff here honestly
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So like, what are the good points of the doctor in India then? Everybody's discussing the other guy and one doctor is just being ignored lol
The truth is that there's not much to discuss about Dr. Parihar. As far as I know on this forum there have been only two diaries with him, and one of them was not applicable for comparison (Kilokahn external tibias). So just one data point. Dr. Monegal has at least 6 patient diaries and I know of at least 4 other patients without diaries
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So like, what are the good points of the doctor in India then? Everybody's discussing the other guy and one doctor is just being ignored lol
He's a pro. Insertion of an internal nail is something most experienced doctors have no problem with doing though, and I haven't had any big complications(fingers crossed) to test how he handles them. However, based on his decades of fixing people with maimed limbs from accidents, I'd trust him to handle something along the lines of a bone graft if the need arose. The drawback is that the hospital isn't like top notch Western hospitals.
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So like, what are the good points of the doctor in India then? Everybody's discussing the other guy and one doctor is just being ignored lol
Two mods of this forum went with him. Penguin in particular had the easiest experience I've ever seen in this. He was also trained by Paley who of course is considered one of the best in the world.
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Two mods of this forum went with him. Penguin in particular had the easiest experience I've ever seen in this. He was also trained by Paley who of course is considered one of the best in the world.
Well, Parihar believes my near-painless experience is owed to Precice and I believe it's owed to my young age. Asian123 and Morissette, also below 20, had near-painless experiences doing externals. A good surgeon can't guarantee a painless experience, but a bad surgeon can complicate things.
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Anyone can pm me
I thing it's unhealthy. One thing I can say now is I'm 100% comfortable with my height which is around 5'9 or 174-175 cm
I think that if anyone who is 175 cm and can't get a date needs to realize that it's not because of their height unless the girl is very very tall.
btw crimson, now that you are in a much more calmed state (I can only imagine in what state you were before... considering amputation and all...), how is your feeling towards this surgery and all this height obssesion?
You can answer me via pm if you wish
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Anyone can pm me
I thing it's unhealthy. One thing I can say now is I'm 100% comfortable with my height which is around 5'9 or 174-175 cm
I think that if anyone who is 175 cm and can't get a date needs to realize that it's not because of their height unless the girl is very very tall.
This is so subjective and it varies case by case. There are people on here that struggle to get a girl. Then there are others that can get a girl but not the girl they want. There are others that want the prettiest girls not just your average girl.
So it really is about perspective and what you are looking for in life
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You can get beautiful girls at 175 cm. You can get beautiful girls even at 170 tbh.
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This is so subjective and it varies case by case. There are people on here that struggle to get a girl. Then there are others that can get a girl but not the girl they want. There are others that want the prettiest girls not just your average girl.
So it really is about perspective and what you are looking for in life
Very well said.
Of course you can have girls at 5.9 and some of them pretty enough. But many girls will also find this height as not enough for their ideal man while no girl will find a 6ft man not tall enough to be ideal.
So at 5.9 which is also my height you can easily don't have any problem with your height again.
But if your behaviour on dating is adventurous and you don't want to have any major drawback that may cause a rejection before even the woman get to know you, 5.9 is not good enough. Not bad either bad still not good enough.
And to be ontopic, Monegal seems to have some good outcomes and only one major case with big complications.
I want to see more patient's diaries first to be sure but for now I think he is a reasonable choice for his money.
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Women don't like beta-acting girly men and getting leg lengthening to be taller than average is probably the most beta male thing you can do. Why don't you get chest implants to make your chest bigger while you're at it? XD
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Women don't like beta-acting girly men and getting leg lengthening to be taller than average is probably the most beta male thing you can do. Why don't you get chest implants to make your chest bigger while you're at it? XD
Because having a bigger chest is something that you can achieve through hard work. You can't grow taller through hard. It's genetic.
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Just saw this and had to post it
The BBC has this story of a girl that wants t o run away from an arranged marriage. We could think of a million reasons why she wouldn't to marry this guy but here are her reasons
"Well he's shorter than me and he's very much older than me and I don't want this."
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38833804?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook
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Just saw this and had to post it
The BBC has this story of a girl that wants t o run away from an arranged marriage. We could think of a million reasons why she wouldn't to marry this guy but here are her reasons
"Well he's shorter than me and he's very much older than me and I don't want this."
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38833804?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook
Saw this as well on my fb newsfeed right now. I skimmed through the article but gona read the comments of the post more thoroughly lol
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Most of people here are beta males and they won't get prettier girls even after surgery. It's more a matter of attitude.
FYI Bodybuilder Dr Monegal has had more bad outcomes not only Cooper and Musicmaker crippled for years. I got some sources. Musicmaker is the worst case but there are others as well. I can't post other people's Xrays but moderators can ask in private and I will show them the proofs. If you don't trust me it's your legs that will be ruined
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Most of people here are beta males and they won't get prettier girls even after surgery. It's more a matter of attitude.
Attitude and confidence can be day and night difference before and after the surgery, it's very individual perspective. It is very unfortunate (especially for short men) that getting slimmer is possible but getting taller impossible. This surgery shouldn't only be for getting women, it should be for greater self-esteem and feeling better about one self in every day to day life.
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Interesting article that talks about ideal height
Kind of validates what bodybuilder has been saying.
http://www.vinaywcmd.com/2013/12/male-face-versus-male-body-versus-male.html (http://www.vinaywcmd.com/2013/12/male-face-versus-male-body-versus-male.html)
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I've seen enough fit to fat scenarios to not care about being considered an ideal male by most women.
In other words: No wife, no kids, no problems.
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I've seen enough fit to fat scenarios to not care about being considered an ideal male by most women.
In other words: No wife, no kids, no problems.
Serious question and not trying to start anything.
Personally I agree with MGTOW but with no kids that means that our genes die with us unless there are other men in the family. But I know that if I don't have kids my lineage dies with me
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Serious question and not trying to start anything.
Personally I agree with MGTOW but with no kids that means that our genes die with us unless there are other men in the family. But I know that if I don't have kids my lineage dies with me
Did you know that you only have 3% of your great grandparents dna. So your genes are gonna die out regardless.
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Interesting article that talks about ideal height
Kind of validates what bodybuilder has been saying.
http://www.vinaywcmd.com/2013/12/male-face-versus-male-body-versus-male.html (http://www.vinaywcmd.com/2013/12/male-face-versus-male-body-versus-male.html)
"Height, with a toned body and average face, is arguably the best position to be in for the greatest number of opportunities for long term relationships".
Thats exactly what my experience showed me almost any time.
But there are still some people here who believe that for women a good face with a less than average height is better than an average face and a higher than average height.
Not even 2/10 women believe something like that and the article tells completely the truth, although I believe that the real border to never have any problem with your height in dating is 5.11 and not 5.10 but thats a very small difference.
This article tells the truth and people like me who are going out a lot and see what is going on and don't wait from social networks to find mates, know that the most important thing in a man's appearance is height and then comes everything else.
And that's where I stop my offtopic post.