Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: Gonnabegreek on February 20, 2017, 09:42:12 PM
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I figured I might as well add my experience to the thread. I have always wanted to be taller, like just about everyone. I had been looking into LL for several years, and finally got the balls to do it. So I picked a doctor, and started doing some prep. My starting height was 181cm, which I realize is excellent already, but for many reasons I felt that I needed more.
I chose Dr. Kulesh for several reasons.
1. His rate is very affordable. 150,000 rubles ($2,500) in a Russian Hospital that doesn't give visa support. Or In a very nice clinic, with visa support and extentions for 350,000 ($5,833) I had to use the clinic since I am from america and it is very difficult to get visa support otherwise.
2. He has an excellent success rate and very few complications.
3. He offers everything, LON, LATN, Externals, Achilies lengthening, even Arm Lengthening, but I wasn't really interested in that.
After communicating for a little bit. I bought a ticket and scheduled the surgery. The entire time he was Excellent at answering questions, and being quick to respond. He speaks English very well.
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I thought the only one doing LON in Russia was Solomin .
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Have you had the surgey yet?
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Is very cold there? How one can tolerante cold without gettinf sick?
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I have had my surgery and I am already at 6.3 cm lengthened. It actually isn't too cold here, maybe 0 degrees celcius. As of right now I am lengthening 1.75 mm per day. Its Pain that is pretty close to unbearable, but Dr. Kulesh said it was necessary since my regeneration was too good. At first I was lengthening 1mm per day, but at ever X-ray consulatation he told me to increase speed.
Here is a summary of the process. I contacted a travel ageny, and had them book me a ticket so they would get me a tourist visa to russia, the ticket was $642 and the Visa was $350. There are other options for visa's and if you are having a problem getting one or just have questions PM me. I flew out and landed in Russia, Dr. Kulesh offered to meet me at the Airport, but I wanted to practice my Russian, so I decided to try and make it on my own. That night I landed and got a hotel room right across the street at a "very expensive hotel" it was around $100 and super nice. The next day I had an appointment with Dr. Kulesh for x-rays and to run tests. Then he explained the surgery to me. That night we went out and with a realtor looked at many apartment. I chose a nice sized apartment that was are $450 a month. You can go up or down on price, but mine was one of the nicest.
The Next day I was to MEDEM and ran many more tests, lung capacity, blood tests cardiograms, just about everything. Then the next day was the day of surgery, I showed up at 9 am having not eaten anything. I stepped out of the taxis afraid, nervous, and excited. I paid the account in cash 350,000 for the surgery, the tests, and 5 days at the hospital with food. Then the nurses shaved my legs, gave me that weird hospital gown, and told me to wait, a few hours later they showed up with a hospital bed and told me to remove my gown and get on. I asked them to repeat it because we were speaking Russian and I was sure I misunderstood. Then she repeated it in English. So I did and they covered me with the sheat took me to the operation room, put a couple IVs in my arms and put me under.
I woke up a few hours later it was still December 24th, I hadnt missed Christmas. Awesome. I remember feeling really good, still on tons of painkillers, I started flirting with all of the nurses in russian. There I was this nked american with broken legs flirting terribly. Then after a few hours I started to feel the pain, at first not bad. I thought I was ready for the pain but within hours I knew I was terribly wrong. This was pain like I had never experienced.
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What method did you do and was it femur or tibia?
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I used External Frames ilizarov Fixation, thinking about adding the Nail later and going the LATN route. But my regeneration is so good, it might be a waste. Dr. Kulesh said I should only need to keep them on for 4-6 months
I started lengthening on January 1st. I was rotating 4 times a day. I actually always do 4 times a day, but now the first 3 are .5mm rotations.
I have training with the trainer every week for 30min. She comes to the apartment. I also have a cleaning lady that comes and cleans everything.
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External Frames and Tibia
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1.75mm per day on tibias?! :o Just wow :D
So I guess you would have to do femurs at 3.5mm per day to avoid pre-consolidation then.
I've learned that everything above 2mm/day can lead to severe and permanent nerve damage.
This means you could never do femurs.
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Does Solomin operate together with Kulesh? Which would be the price of LON?
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7 cm on tibia is considered very dangerous, do you really wanna do that much?
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7 cm on tibia is considered very dangerous, do you really wanna do that much?
I asked Dr. Kulesh the same thing, but he said since my tibia was already fairly long it would be like most people doing 5 cm. It not very dangerous he said I could do 10 cm no problem. But I wanted to be safe, plus at 7 cm I have better proportions.
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The price of LON is the same, except you pay for the nails. So 150,000 rubles or 350,000 rubles depending on the hospital, and add 100,000 rubles. So Its an additional $1,667. Really not too bad.
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Good luck on your process.
Since your starting height is pretty good can i ask your reasons about choosing to go through ll?Like,are you in a tall family or do you feel uncomfortable around your friends or something?(im really not trying to judge,just wondering.)
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5 feet 11 and a half is an incredible height to consider undergoing this surgery (I'd assume you are one of the tallest patients to undergo this but I could be proven wrong) - most users here after excessive limb lengthening wouldn't see that figure and globally it is well above average. You would be almost 6 feet 2 inches+ in boots and minor lifts. What was your motivation to do this surgery? You stated you needed more - could you elaborate on this?
I see you are now almost at 188CM - Just over 6'2" which is an exceptional height but quite an increase in tibias, also having lengthened at an exceptionally fast rate, are you considering femur lengthening or are you satisfied with this height? How are you proportionally? I hope the recovery is going well. Best of luck.
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Can the persone go back home for the lengthening period ?
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Hi, how did you get in contact with Dr. Kulesh, Gonnabegreek?
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Have had access to pain killers? And has your pain since subsided? Any photos?
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When I say photos I mean of the apparatus and also of the clinic/hospital/apartment/location. Really anything
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Any news from this adventure ?
I'm booking a surgery with Dr Kulesh too.
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this seems so easy. i wanna know more!
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Sorry to throw doubt on the authenticity of the thread, but 4-6 months in frames is virtually unheard of, I was in the top 5% of consolidation rates and even then it was over 7 months for me. Also, Russia (the major cities) is nowhere near as cheap as people in the West tend to believe it is, at least not to the extent described here(entering as an American with Western standards).
I have no idea what the OP's personal life entails (although having gone through the process, I know it's not much), but it's curious that his first and last posts were made within a span of just of 12 hours.
GonnabeGreek, I apologize if this thread is legit, but the pessimist in me is wondering why, in addition to the aforementioned, the only poster we've had from the Solomin team in the last few years (the last being Badwolf who last we heard was walking on crutches 13 months postop in addition to having undergone a bone graft) just so happens to have Kryptonian bone consolidation and after just 6 weeks has been told to nearly double his lengthening rate to 1.75mm/day.
*Sorry again if I'm wrong
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I just re-read Lumiere s diary, he had one of the best possible consolidation and were 7 months for 5 cm ( 6.5 -1.5) and even in his case the rate of lengthening never was above .75 mm. You lengthened at 1.75 mm and you will be 5 months in frames for 7 cm, very strange.
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under 6k? 7cm? 6 months only? Why not inject krokodil into your tibia and save yourself the immense realization of how fked wheel chair life is bro.
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wat is the name of Commercial Products of krokodil drug for use after surgery?
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As much as I like to believe this it strikes ne as fishy, this dude never updated this and plus his recovery was easy?, on top of all that I contacted Kulesh and he said anything over 8cm on tibia is dangerous yet this guy claims Kulesh said no problem to 10cm!
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How can i contact Dr Kulesh?
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No x-rays, pics or vids. Plus claiming to having lengthened at 181cm.
Does anyone know if Kulesh really has absolutely no maximum height with regards to the people he operates on?
For comparison: the Ilizarov center in Russia doesn't allow for men over 160cm, and Dr. Birkholtz generally doesn't allow anyone over 165cm. Rozbruch himself has never performed CLL on a person taller than 175cm.
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Does anyone know if Kulesh really has absolutely no maximum height with regards to the people he operates on?
For comparison: the Ilizarov center in Russia doesn't allow for men over 160cm, and Dr. Birkholtz generally doesn't allow anyone over 165cm. Rozbruch himself has never performed CLL on a person taller than 175cm.
Reminds me of an interesting paper I read recently, Cosmetic limb lengthening in a patient of normal stature: ethical considerations (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/310606056_Cosmetic_limb_lengthening_in_a_patient_of_normal_stature_ethical_considerations). On one hand he's 5'7" (170 cm) which is a good height in India, and his parents weren't informed; on the other he's 23 (i.e. independent), and refusing surgery has a different set of ethical questions since that decision is also subjective one, much like the patient's own.
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Reminds me of an interesting paper I read recently, Cosmetic limb lengthening in a patient of normal stature: ethical considerations (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/310606056_Cosmetic_limb_lengthening_in_a_patient_of_normal_stature_ethical_considerations). On one hand he's 5'7" (170 cm) which is a good height in India, and his parents weren't informed; on the other he's 23 (i.e. independent), and refusing surgery has a different set of ethical questions since that decision is also subjective one, much like the patient's own.
A pretty good height: actually above average in India. Like 6 feet for white dudes in the US. The average is 5'10, but 6ft is not actually uncommon, and even seems the norm in some places, specially if you have height neurosis.
Well, just going by the data I've seen, anyway, where average height for men in India has remained 5-10cm shorter (https://iiif.elifesciences.org/lax:13410/elife-13410-fig6-v2.tif/full/1500,/0/default.jpg) than in Japan over the last decades (and hasn't changed in a century).
Thank you for link, Android. It seems very interesting. I'll give it a read.
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A pretty good height: actually above average in India. Like 6 feet for white dudes in the US. The average is 5'10, but 6ft is not actually uncommon, and even seems the norm in some places, specially if you have height neurosis.
Yep, I felt pretty normal over there, but did encounter plenty of taller guys too, especially near the cities. Big country after all, and the influence of height preference in Bollywood/Tollywood -- and by extension, Hollywood -- is a big one. And like Gonnabegreek, some want to go up a step too, in this case above average to beyond.
From what I know, Dr. Kulesh and Dr. Solomin doesn't seem to have a limit (though it may influence their consultation). A thread with docs that do and don't would be interesting.
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Yep, I felt pretty normal over there, but did encounter plenty of taller guys too, especially near the cities. Big country after all, and the influence of height preference in Bollywood/Tollywood -- and by extension, Hollywood -- is a big one. And like Gonnabegreek, some want to go up a step too, in this case above average to beyond.
From what I know, Dr. Kulesh and Dr. Solomin doesn't seem to have a limit (though it may influence their consultation). A thread with docs that do and don't would be interesting.
This diary is so crazy. The worst part is that we can't e-mail Dr. Kulesh to confirm whether the story is true. Patient confidentiality and medical ethics. I wouldn't even like if Dr. Kulesh actually replied. I'm just bothered we'll never know if this story is true.
181cm and lengthening at 1.75mm a day... Among other things...
From what I know, Dr. Kulesh and Dr. Solomin doesn't seem to have a limit (though it may influence their consultation). A thread with docs that do and don't would be interesting.
I agree a thread like that would be interesting.
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Dr. Kulesh told me he does not recommend going over 7cm on femurs for most people as it's an increased rate of complications.
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Only 2.5k for that surgery in a Russian hospital?? wtf why is it so expensive in other places and more third world countries like India?
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Only 2.5k for that surgery in a Russian hospital?? wtf why is it so expensive in other places and more third world countries like India?
Russia is a communist country, meaning everyone regardless of what they do is paid the same. The reason indian doctors charge more is because youre a foreigner and most doctors exploit the inflation rate and economic stability in your country. Think about it. If youre a doctor, and you got a patient thats from your communist country youre gonna charge him a reasonable price, now, if you get an american patient who's budget is 25-30,000 why not charge him that? LL, as a surgery, is easy to do for the doctor. It just takes a little work on their part for the measurements to make sure the rotational markers are put in place correctly and reaming the canal. Actually this takes a lot of understanding of the anatomy of the human body and very good coordination, however, it isnt rocket science. The frames and nails are probably anywhere from 100-500$. The anesthesiaologist probably gets paid 40-100$ an hour. Yet somehow docs like Rozbruch are charging 100,000 for one segment. Thats what I like to call taking advantage of stupid people that arent educated on economics.
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Russia is a communist country, meaning everyone regardless of what they do is paid the same. The reason indian doctors charge more is because youre a foreigner and most doctors exploit the inflation rate and economic stability in your country. Think about it. If youre a doctor, and you got a patient thats from your communist country youre gonna charge him a reasonable price, now, if you get an american patient who's budget is 25-30,000 why not charge him that? LL, as a surgery, is easy to do for the doctor. It just takes a little work on their part for the measurements to make sure the rotational markers are put in place correctly and reaming the canal. Actually this takes a lot of understanding of the anatomy of the human body and very good coordination, however, it isnt rocket science. The frames and nails are probably anywhere from 100-500$. The anesthesiaologist probably gets paid 40-100$ an hour. Yet somehow docs like Rozbruch are charging 100,000 for one segment. Thats what I like to call taking advantage of stupid people that arent educated on economics.
Wise words, but even within Russia there are some expensive doctors right?
And if these Russian doctors are perpetually cheaper than other say European or Indian or American doctors, then why do the majority of people still go to European countries/US/India to get it done there, when the success rate for an easy surgery (as you say) would be the same in not-so-bad Russia?
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Wise words, but even within Russia there are some expensive doctors right?
And if these Russian doctors are perpetually cheaper than other say European or Indian or American doctors, then why do the majority of people still go to European countries/US/India to get it done there, when the success rate for an easy surgery (as you say) would be the same in not-so-bad Russia?
No, I never saw an expensive doctor in Russia. The highest I saw was 13k usd because alot of foreigners were going to him. And the reason there isnt too many is because people are suspicious the cheap price would mean cheap quality surgery but this is reasonable price and it should be taken into consideration the price doesnt include performing additional correctional surgery so that can be a reason why its cheap. Also, in America, a patient winning a case of negligence is more likely than in Europe (except France and Spain). So doctors charge more. And in exchange for that the patient pays more to feel safer legally. Kind of rambling but I hope I answered your question.
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Yeah! you certainly did answer my question thanks, i heed your words. Currently as an 18 year old guy in uni living in my parent's house, i have a part time job and I've been a money saver all my life, I'll definitely be doing LL in Russia in a few years time as part of a gap-year.
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Yeah! you certainly did answer my question thanks, i heed your words. Currently as an 18 year old guy in uni living in my parent's house, i have a part time job and I've been a money saver all my life, I'll definitely be doing LL in Russia in a few years time as part of a gap-year.
Awesome brother, im saving up too. :)
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Yeah! you certainly did answer my question thanks, i heed your words. Currently as an 18 year old guy in uni living in my parent's house, i have a part time job and I've been a money saver all my life, I'll definitely be doing LL in Russia in a few years time as part of a gap-year.
Again, you should wait until you're 21 so you're totally done growing... You might manage to save enough for Russia before that, or even grow up more and change your mind.
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For the diary of this man - i don't know but i know patients of dr kulesh that has been asked to go for 1.25 and 1.5 mm per day doing external tibia and even dr kulesh said that he had a patient that done 3 mm per day ( the doctor didn't know ) but he was surprised that the regeneration was good, but for sure this patient fked his muscles . but this is very bad for the soft tissues , for me 1 mm is the limit . i don't think one shall get pre consolidation after 2 cm if he is doing 1mm per day . so 1.5 or 1.75 per day will shortcut the lengthening phase - but will damage ur soft tissues . just play it safe in lengthening . and if you have a good regeneration - this will be advantage to remove the frame very soon.