5.65 -> 5.85 isn't that big of a change honestly. I mean yes now he's dating a 5'5 girl which probably would've had 0 chance of happening before.Tibike, it's not a sad update. Is the reality vs expectations for a man who from 1.68 became 1.75 and still have problems with height on dating.
The ideal, very best, and I think most life changing procedure overall would be 5'5 -> 5'10. Just two completely different leagues.
But I think this is all very relative and anecdotal lol. Imagine you get LL and then fall into depression afterwards for unrelated reasons like family death. Or imagine you get LL and then meet a girl who was taller than your starting height. Some people will say this surgery changed their lives, others will say it barely had any effect.
Tibike, it's not a sad update. Is the reality vs expectations for a man who from 1.68 became 1.75 and still have problems with height on dating.
And trust me, if I have these problems then the majority of men at these heights have also becauso, without been egocentrical or superficial, I don"t have any other physical drawback compared to the great majority of men.
So, if I face trouble on dating due to height, them the vast majority of men at these heights does also. And shorter than 5.8-5.7 men are, sorry about that but it is the harsh truth, almost doomed on dating.
Captain america, I gained about 7.5cm which is a good gain especially for tibia LL.
Being 1.75 from 1.68 IS a major difference but my point is that still my height is an issue on dating, something I never thought before LL when I truly believed that this difference is more than enough to never have any problems on dating due to height.
But it isn't.
Also, the 5.5 very sxxy girl was my ex.
My now gf is more average looking and a little less than 5.7.
And before LL I have a 4 year relationship with a 5.7 very sxxy and nice girl and 2 years with a very beautiful 5.6 girl too, but I was just lucky because they didn't care about height.
But the thing is that more than 80% of girls care about height a lot and most of the time, 5.9-5.8 is just not tall enough to be considered an ideal man.
That is something that I have seen again and again and can't be ignored so the only way to play with our rules is to get close to 5.11 as much as our initial height let us, even with doing two LLs.
And thats what I'm planning to do.
Naaah, Girls don't give a fk about height. Its funny how you want to do this risky surgery because of that. Personality and your budget will bring you anyone.
- Do you avoid looking in mirrors while nked (or clothed) because you're unhappy with your proportions?Not at all. I have long femurs now, but it's nothing more than mildly amusing to me. When clothed and looking at a full length mirror, I can only notice that my knee is a little below its ideal place. The good thing about doing femurs is wearing shoes helps your leg's proportions too.
- How long did you lengthen, and in which segment?3", femurs.
- If you do feel pain, how much, and would you say that it has even slightly reduced your quality of life & "outgoing'ness" ?Didn't have much pain during lengthening, no pain right now as I consolidate so I assume I won't have pain after.
- Has anyone commented on your proportions? Sitting height? Anything? Did it bother you at all? Or do you just brush off matters like this because overall, as a net, being taller is worth the trade off?No. I've met someone who saw me before surgery and then right after. All they noticed was the entire legs were longer- that too because they knew what they were looking for. I even waved my leg in the air while bending the knee to show them I was doing ok. Secretly, I was testing to see if they noticed my femur:tibia proportions and they didn't. I was wearing shorts at the time. I don't think anyone will notice my sitting height is a little off. If someone commented on my proportions, I'd brush it off. I wouldn't do any more LL though, even if I could magically add some inches to my tibias because staying in the realm of normalcy takes priority over height at some point.
- Did LL change the way people treat you? Family, friends?No. Family & close friends agree that I look much better now, but that's all.
- How do you feel when you wake up in the morning (emotionally and physically)?Normal! Worth it. :)
Girls care. They are pretty shallow. It sucks but it's reality
https://youtu.be/HCJ_6tuY-Pg (https://youtu.be/HCJ_6tuY-Pg)
Girls care. They are pretty shallow. It sucks but it's reality
No girls will rejects you if you are 5'9 5'10
And trust me, if I have these problems then the majority of men at these heights have also becauso,
being tall is the first that a woman wants in a man and then everything else.
@ I wanna be taller: that doesn't have to do with my personal experiences. When a woman tells me that 5.9 is not enough for an ideal man, then that has to do with that height, not me personally. And trust me, I have many many good experiences with women that most of the guys that judge me above wouldn't even dream of. But I know that If I were 5.11, these experiences would have been more and easier, not only because I'd have felt much better with myself but because no women (or a very slight minority of crazy height obseased girls but who cares) would think that I'm good but if I were taller I would have been better. If you reach a certain height then being taller simply doesn't matter. And I truly believe that this height is 5.11 or at least 5.10,5. From that and beyond height is becoming a drawback and from 5.8-5.7 and beyond a very significant one.
It's not tall they prefer. They prefer TALLER than them (and many put also taller than them in heels)
@ Kaizer: you should live in a completely denial if you think that height doesn't matter for women. It is the first and most important thing they look in the appearance of someone and if you have a not ugly face and some muscles, then almost no women will reject you for your appearance. And then comes personality which is very important but it comes after the first impression. Guess what, if a woman doesn't like your appearance then she wouldn't bother to see your character.
And the same goes for us with women. If I am not attracted to a girl, then nothing else matters.
@Ozymandias: the most stupid thing is to judge someone you don't know and has done LL and writes his experiences before and after. If you think that I'm exaggerating with my appearance, then it's your problem. I'm very strict with myself and when I say that 5.8-5.9 is not enough for a real alpha male, I know what I'm talking about. If I just wanted a beautiful girl to marry and have children, I would have done that even before my first LL. But this isn't what I want. I want to play with my rules and never get rejected for something that it wasn't my fault like height. My self esteem doesn't let me to admit that many women see me as inferior to many other men because I'm not tall enough, although I tried my best to have a built body, good style and a relatively good income.
I tried my best and the only thing missing to have the complete package is 2-3 inches more. That's ridiculous but it is the hars truth. And that's why me and every other man in my situation has the right to change it. And the only way is LL.
@ Theophilo: most women won't reject you for your height, especially when you are 5.10. But they still think that your height is not perfect. They don't think the same for someone who is 6 ft compared to someone 6.1 ft because you are tall enough to not matter if you were taller or not. Also, after about 6.2 or 6.3 at max height becomes a drawback.
But yes, when you are 5.9 and good looking, most of the women will prefer a more average looking man (not ugly of course) who is 6 ft. That's the truth even if we want to admit it or not.
@ I wanna be taller: that doesn't have to do with my personal experiences. When a woman tells me that 5.9 is not enough for an ideal man, then that has to do with that height, not me personally. And trust me, I have many many good experiences with women that most of the guys that judge me above wouldn't even dream of. But I know that If I were 5.11, these experiences would have been more and easier, not only because I'd have felt much better with myself but because no women (or a very slight minority of crazy height obseased girls but who cares) would think that I'm good but if I were taller I would have been better. If you reach a certain height then being taller simply doesn't matter. And I truly believe that this height is 5.11 or at least 5.10,5. From that and beyond height is becoming a drawback and from 5.8-5.7 and beyond a very significant one.
@ Tibike: I truly believe that height is much more important than a great face for a woman. Being tall with moderate face makes dating much easier than being short with a great face. Having a great face and an average height is enough most of the times but again, being tall is the first that a woman wants in a man and then everything else.
And I completely agree that after a certain threshold height doesn't matter. But this threshold is 5.11 from my experience which is a little above the majority in most west countries, so if you don't reach it then you still will have a drawback in your appearance for most of the women that increases dramatically the shorter your height becomes.
Height is the most important thing in a mans appearance and the only that you can't change at all in a psysical way. It is completely insane to have less chances in our lives because we aren't above the average height or at least very close to it. But this is the harsh and only truth.
So you have 2 options. Try harder to succeed and many times keep failing (especially in dating) for somethimg that it isn't your fault, or take the risks and change it with LL and become whatever you want with nothing holding you down.
Everyone can make the choice he wants. I chose the second one before 5 years and I'll do it again in about 2 years to finish once and for all the height issue for myself.
I want to play with my rules, whatever it takes.
@Tibike: no my friend, the ideal men for women is not taller than them but tall.
A 5.3 girl will want a lets say 6ft tall man as much as a 5.7 girl.
Of course shorter girl could deal with taller than them men but not generally tall but still their preference would be a tall man.
What women want don't have to do with what they are. It is completely the same between a fat man compared to an athletic man. They both want a sxxy slim woman.
@ yunggud: I agree but I don't think that 5.9 compared to 5.85 plays a big role to how people see you.
@ozymandias: I've done LL and talk about my experiences before and after it and also I say my opinion about ehat is the real border where height stops to matter. I don't know anything about you, your height, if you had LL etc so your opinion doesn't really matter at all for me. So keep calm and face your own problems. ;)
@captain america: By showing disrespect to a veteran LLer who has a diary with pics on the old forum you just show how moron you are. I don't care if you believe me or not, I'm sure that most of the people here can understand what I did and what I'm talking about because they have faced it again and again and that's why they consider LL.
And my profile pic is from Scott Steiner, a phenomenon in wrestling and a real macho man, at least in appearance (because his character is funny and cartoonish). But it doesn't matter, keep believing what you want about me, Steiner or anyone else. If you ever do LL then we can discuss for real. But for now, you are just an unexperienced brat who tries to gain value by insulting people that you don't even know, like me. That's the best you can do. Really pathetic.
@ onemorefoot: I'm not sure. The only thing I take for granted is that I'll do internal femurs but for sure I can't afford anything more than 50.000 euros. So in about a year from now I think that I'll have my final decision.
The highlight of hilarity of this forum is the amount of people who permanently damage their bodies with one lengthening and then decide they'll do a second one because they'd rather be almost crippled and tall than average height and able to move like they're younger than 75. You gotta be one unethical person to operate on these kinds of people.
The highlight of hilarity of this forum is the amount of people who permanently damage their bodies with one lengthening and then decide they'll do a second one because they'd rather be almost crippled and tall than average height and able to move like they're younger than 75. You gotta be one unethical person to operate on these kinds of people.Who are you to insult LL'ers, epecially in a forum about LL?
Who are you to insult LL'ers, epecially in a forum about LL?
Also, how do you know if we are crippled or not? I'm almost sure that a "crippled" LL'er like me could lift you in the air and push you back on the ground with not much effort.
So show some respect to people who underwent this hard surgery to improve their lives and get away from a silly social prejudice about short height that unfortunately plays a major role in our lives, or gtfo from here and go to a forum with moron people like you who judge something that never faced because they were just lucky to have a good height.
LL is for the brave ones. Morons like you are the last ones who can criticize us.
The highlight of hilarity of this forum is the amount of people who permanently damage their bodies with one lengthening and then decide they'll do a second one because they'd rather be almost crippled and tall than average height and able to move like they're younger than 75. You gotta be one unethical person to operate on these kinds of people.
Educate yourself before you try to find entertainment in a field you don't understand.
I'm not a mod, but trolling is against the board rules and you're clearly trolling. Heck, you are even that bold and put it in your signature.
Now make your screenshots for reddit and leave.
I've never seen a topic derailing twice ;D
My condolence, Captain ;)
@ doomsday: if two men are about the same in appearance and one is 5.9 and the other one is 5.11, who do you think that the vast majority of women would choose?
Also, I'd really prefer to attract women with my appearance and then with my character than with money (50k you mentioned). I prefer women who like me, even after an added height than women who care about money and all these.
Bodybuilder, have you tried boots with lifts to add 4-5 cm to your normal height with shoes? If you have, do you notice a big difference in response from the women you date / try to date? Not trying to pick on you, I'm truly interested in the marginal effectYes my friend, when go in the clubs I wear my 2 inches elevator Bugarri shoes, not only for the added height but because they are very elegant too. These put me at a solid 5.10,5 or just a slight more which is the border imo to be taller than most of the girls (of course there are still a lot of girls taller than that with heels but not the majority) in the clubs who wear huge heels (10+ cm) and be about average compared to the most men there who also wear shoes of 2-3 cms.
Yes my friend, when go in the clubs I wear my 2 inches elevator Bugarri shoes, not only for the added height but because they are very elegant too. These put me at a solid 5.10,5 or just a slight more which is the border imo to be taller than most of the girls (of course there are still a lot of girls taller than that with heels but not the majority) in the clubs who wear huge heels (10+ cm) and be about average compared to the most men there who also wear shoes of 2-3 cms.
So, my elevator shoes only give about 1 extra inch more compared to the most normal men's shoes which is something but not anything big.
And yes, I see a difference especially when I talk to girls who are just a little shorter than me (with heels) and if I wore flat shoes they would have been taller and most of the times would have rejected me only for that. A guy shorter than a woman, even if she wears huge heels, is at least 80% a dealbreaker for her, especially in places like clubs, bars and all these.
Finally, my 6ft and 6.1ft best friends still have a much easier time picking girls on clubs and they are completely average looking in every other aspect. Not bad of course but not anything special either. And both of them have much less money than me (because some of you mentioned money and success) and neither of them have a relatively new BMW like me.
But height make their lives much easier on dating, not in relationships generally where many other things matter a lot too, but on the first impression.
Above averave height, good clothes and an at least average face and body are more than enough to have plenty chances on dating.
Well this thread has certainly been hijacked from its original purpose and turned into a thread full of arguments and personal attacks. Could those who want to discuss their own issues start a different thread and deal with them there?
The questions asked in the original post by CaptainAmerica could be very interesting to read and discuss the experiences and opinions of those who have undergone the procedure while being helpful to people who are considering/have completed limb lengthening.
Thanks for sharing your honest experience, BB; it is refreshing to hear.@ krp1: nice to met you my friend.
Further questions:
1. Do you ever pick up women in places where they don't wear heels, like the gym / tennis club / ski piste / running in the park? Assuming then that you are a good 4-5 inches taller than them (assuming equal footwear), are their responses better than when you are in the places where they wear heels? Also as in the gym they are more appreciative of your body they could overlook the height difference.
2. Do you do better when you are in a group of men of similar height (as in you look like the average guy)? or better when the average is less (ie you look taller than average)? I ask because I went to a salsa club for the first time last week with a date and I was surprised that I was one of the tallest guys there. I can't dance to save my life but I certainly felt that the women were more interested.
3. What is the ideal height for a woman for you? Has your perception of the ideal height of a woman changed after your LL?
Once again, just trying to confirm or refute some hypotheses. Respect to you my friend
@ crimsontide: thank you for your kind words first of all.
About AT shortening, the biggest research which included 11 patients who had this surgery after tendon elongation from bad surgeries after AT rupture and were under the observation of dr Mafulli, maybe the best doctor in the world about achilles tendon surgeries (he only does orthopaedic surgeries to ach tendons, nothing else!) and is also on the internet, have much greater results than 50-55%.
The average push off power was restored to 82% and calf diameter was about 3 cm less compared to healthy foot (less than 10% difference).
And all the patients except from 1 said that they couldn't feel any difference between their legs, healthy and operated one.
So my friend, at least on papers, AT shortening seems to work a lot and after all, my calf size is already less than 10% smaller than before ATL (I'm an amateur BBer so I always measured my muscles and I know exactly the difference) so 50-55% of gastrocnemius reduction is far from reality, at least for relatively young and healthy patients.
I'm sorry for the off topic post but I"ve read a lot about what I"m going to do and have an excellent doctor with great experience on ach. tendons, so I know why I am so optimist about this surgery. After all, even now with overlengthened tendons (especially the left one) most of the times I am generally speaking good and walk normal, so if I wasn't sure about the good incomes of tendon shortening (at least on theory and what research shows) then I wouldn't have considered doing it.
I hope that everything will be ok with me and maybe you consider doing it too in the future.
@ Dointgitforme: first of all congratulations for your diary and your smooth LL experience.
You have many right points on what you say but you know something? I'm very happy with anything else in my life and I don't want to-can't improve anything else in my appearance because I'm lucky to have a good face and my body, after 11 years of continuous working out (with only 2 years break after LL) is at its best.
And I wasn't been rejected for my height too, at least openly, but I"ve many times heard that I'm not tall enough or that I'd have been much better if I was 5.11 and these kind of comments.
And after all, I know that if I were 5.11 I'd have been more aesthetic looking than now and if we want to discuss and about proportions (which doesn't matter a lot for me) it is better for someone to have equally lenfgthened femurs-tibias compared to someone with just 7.5 cm lengthened tibias.
So, there is really no reason for not doing another LL and reach my dream height.
Money doesn't matter for me if I'm completely happy with myself and have social benefits from height (which you don't have when you are shorter than about 5.11) and risks are not many with femur LL with a capable doctor.
For all these reasons, a second LL is really something that will improve my life a lot.
Here is the link Crimsontide
"test paired sampled statistics showed that the operated limb had a lower peak torque than the nonoperated leg (240.9 N ± 51.9 N vs. 299.0 N ± 44.2 N; P = 0.05), but the patients did not perceive this decrease in strength as interfering with their daily or leisure activities. ".
299 N to 241 N means a reduction of plantar flexion power of about 20%, not 50% as you mentioned.
Also most of the patiens didn't saw any major difference between the operated and the non operated leg after tendon shortening, although before this surgery they couldn't even do a single heel raise (I can do more than 40 in each leg).
And finally, these patients where about 50 years old which doesn't help a lot for a great outcome compared to my 28 years.
So if they reached about 80% compared to their non operated leg, I'm almost sure than my outcome will be at least the same and maybe bettet.
All the above numbers and everything about achilles tendon shortening after tendon elongation due to bad surgery after achilles rupture (which is the same as tendon overlengthening after atl) are mentioned here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3460090/
I know plenty from the time I've spent here. For very short guys I totally understand why they do it. But guys pushing to get into tall territory even after they've been jacked up by one leg lengthening clearly have problems similar to an anorexic or something. If you have to get an ATL and walk like a gimp and insist that you're gonna get another one because "lol least i'll be tall" then it's a case of delusion. A poster here called Sweden has the same thing, admitting he can barely run and isn't what he used to be, constant pains and stiffness and what not, yet still wants a second lengthening so he can get close to 6 feet. This is the kind of mentality that should disqualify these people from further surgery. These doctors are taking already injured people and injuring them even more with a second lengthening, should they accept them as a patient. They need a bunch of prozac, not another round of cosmetic surgery.
for as much trolling as big daddy does in some of his other posts, I thought this was an actually good and serious post. he brought up some harsh but real truths in my opinion. people who do LL and want more can easily fall into the same trap as people who do too much plastic surgery. I don't mean that's the case with body builder specifically, but in general. there is a rationale for some folks to do a 2nd LL, but I think it's a very very small minority. really tough to justify if you haven't recovered well from you're first LL and are already average height or more.
for as much trolling as big daddy does in some of his other posts, I thought this was an actually good and serious post. he brought up some harsh but real truths in my opinion. people who do LL and want more can easily fall into the same trap as people who do too much plastic surgery. I don't mean that's the case with body builder specifically, but in general. there is a rationale for some folks to do a 2nd LL, but I think it's a very very small minority. really tough to justify if you haven't recovered well from you're first LL and are already average height or more.People who are, even a slight, taller than the average man in their country and want to risk by doing LL and add a few inches more I can totally agree that they have no real reason to do LL.
Thats why, even if my problems with tendons and a minor (about 3 degrees) misalignment in my right tibia don't cause me visible problem or any pain at all, I plan to completely (or at least in a great amount) fix them first and then go for a femur LL.
If I don't feel my legs completely normal, I won't consider doing another LL without fixing my problems first.