Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: Tinkerbelle on February 25, 2017, 10:22:40 PM
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First, let me start by saying thank you to the admin for approving my join request immediately.
I requested to join the old forum almost a week ago and still haven't been approved, but seems this one is newer/better so I guess it worked out.
Ok so as the title implies, I am a female, 5' 1/2" short. I am in my mid 30s and initially researched LL years ago, but seemed at the time it was only available to people with dwarfism and the height limit for females was 4'11"
Anyhow, I have been thinking about it a lot lately, and wanting to gain 3 inches in my tibiae, but after reading about some of the permanent complications or damage that can result I am hesitant. I want to be taller, yes, but I don't want to be disabled in some other way!
So I guess I am wondering now if I should just forget about the whole thing or just try to save for a certain Doctor (like Paley) if that will mitigate long term issues like arthritis or nerve damage
Please note, I cannot wear high or even medium heeled shoes to increase height, as they leave me in pain after and the next day or days, so I usually have to wear comfortable shoes and I can only even do flats for a few hours (and that's with cushioned inserts). So wearing heeled shoes is not an option for me to get height.
I'm really sick of being the size of the average 10 year old (I should mention, I live in the US) and have dreamed of being taller my whole life :/ I don't feel like a short person and it's not until I see pictures or a reflection of myself standing next to other people that I get upset because what I see doesn't reflect who I feel I am inside
Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated
Thanks
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There are plenty of good surgeons, not only Paley. I would recommend this surgery in your case, 3 inches in tibia is too much, 5-6 cm max.
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Take photo of yourself and try to do mockups so you will have an image how you would look like after certain amount of lengthening.
And a classic recommendation from me which i give to almost everybody: try a shrink.
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Phew, well I was worried that I'd get similar replies here that I've gotten from the family and friends I've shared this desire with- they all think I am crazy, that my height is fine especially for a female, and since I am thin and have good proportions (though I wouldn't mind having longer legs, myself) that to undergo such an extreme operation and so much expense is ridiculous.
Part of me does question if I'm nuts for wanting this and wish it wasn't the case, but it's not about what other people think (as my height doesn't seem to prevent me from attracting men or much else socially) it's about how I see myself, what I want.
Anyhow, I have been researching all the doctors, and I feel like the other really good ones who do internals (I already know having external frames on my legs would make it impossible for me to sleep) would come out to nearly the same expense (given USD And Euro exchange rates)
3 inches would be ideal but if I can get 2.5 that would still be fine, as I'd be perfectly happy being 5'3" which is my target height (the extra half inch I desire is because I know I'm going to shrink due to age in another 15 years)
Is it worth the risks of nerve damage, arthritis or other serious long term damage though? That is my biggest fear. Especially that 50% of tibial lengthening patients have permanent knee pain.
I will do a mock up but I lean toward tibiae as I think longer lower legs look better aesthetically than long femurs. Also, I have really thin thighs but have always wanted thinner lower legs (I wouldn't call them big, but they're not skinny either) so I know it's the way I would want to go
Then there's the issue of raising the funds...
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Nerve damage? If your surgeon knows waht he is doing this is not a problem; about arthritis, there are not enough studies. The reaction of your family is becuase they dont know anything about it, they think this is an experiment, when it has been done for over 50 years. I wrote that I would recommend this surgery for you, because you are below average and I see that you have clear what you are getting into.About external fixators, they are a big problem for sleeping, you can cut time using nails in the tibias but there is a risk of knee pain, but if the surgeon is experienced it could be avoided in some way.
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If you can't even wear heels because you have pains, then LL is probably not for you.
Also, in your height it is hard to gain more than 2 inches in tibias without complications.
I really think that your height is ok for a woman and if you are slim and good looking there won't be any problem for most of men to be with a 5.1,5 ft woman but it is your decision to change your height.
But imo, if you can't even walk with heels then LL, which is far harder and with many risks, is not for you.
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Bodybuilder, I understand where you are coming from, but I have a high tolerance for pain in cases of surgery- and if it's something I really want, I'm willing to endure it (I also respond well to prescription pain killers). It's not that the pain from wearing heels is unbearable, but it does make me more worn out if I have to work or be productive the next day. Whereas with LL I would not be working during the time it's occurring and it's of limited duration (whereas wearing heels I would have to do for my entire adult life).
I'm not doing this to be more attractive to men, cause as you noted they don't seem to mind a woman being short, and even if they did I still wouldn't do it for them cause it should be about only what you want for yourself, not for the sake of other people's opinions. It's more a case of wanting to align how I see myself on the inside to what I see outside. I don't feel like a tiny person or a child, but I'm the size of one. Yes I am lucky that I am slim, and relatively good looking (or at least that's what I've been told) but I don't like being so small regardless of what other people think of me...
Also, I'm not familiar with the notation of 5.1,5 so just wanted to clarify that I am 5ft plus half an inch (this is mid-day, I'm about an inch taller first thing in the morning but I don't consider that my real height as it doesn't last)
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Nerve damage? If your surgeon knows waht he is doing this is not a problem; about arthritis, there are not enough studies. The reaction of your family is becuase they dont know anything about it, they think this is an experiment, when it has been done for over 50 years. I wrote that I would recommend this surgery for you, because you are below average and I see that you have clear what you are getting into.About external fixators, they are a big problem for sleeping, you can cut time using nails in the tibias but there is a risk of knee pain, but if the surgeon is experienced it could be avoided in some way.
Yes, I saw on another thread that nerve damage is a long term risk, also paralysis of toe(s) and other things I haven't mentioned but which scare the crap out of me. Will see if I can find it and provide the link...
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Imagine if you were male with that height. Honestly I would not recommend doing it if you're female especially since you're not abnormally short like 4 11 and below. You should look into solving what could be giving you pain and then wear heelsl.
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Lady dont let anyone sway your opinion. Even if they say youre just fine for a girl, what matters in the end is how you feel about yourself. If if gives you so much stress to be 5 ft tall then go for it. That said I reccomend internal femur with parihar or external tibia.
Theres a chance your bones are too thin for the weight bearing precice nail and youll be stuck in a wheelchair. Internal is also way more expensive than external; just check my signature out, prices are in singaoore dollars though.
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Imagine if you were male with that height. Honestly I would not recommend doing it if you're female especially since you're not abnormally short like 4 11 and below. You should look into solving what could be giving you pain and then wear heelsl.
I still have to take heels of at some point and deal with the sinking feeling of being shorter when I do though. I may not be 4'11" but I'm not far from it! And by the time I am 60 or 65 that will be my height, anyway. I know it's not as big a deal to be short for a female, I get that, but it's not about what society thinks, just how I feel...
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Lady dont let anyone sway your opinion. Even if they say youre just fine for a girl, what matters in the end is how you feel about yourself. If if gives you so much stress to be 5 ft tall then go for it. That said I reccomend internal femur with parihar or external tibia.
Theres a chance your bones are too thin for the weight bearing precice nail and youll be stuck in a wheelchair. Internal is also way more expensive than external; just check my signature out, prices are in singaoore dollars though.
I would do externals if I thought I could sleep with the frames. But I know I won't be able to. And the scars are worse with external, I thought? I wish there was someone inexpensive that did internal tibiae
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I would do externals if I thought I could sleep with the frames. But I know I won't be able to. And the scars are worse with external, I thought? I wish there was someone inexpensive that did internal tibiae
Well this serbian doctor mitchov is offering internals for 16k euros but they wont be ready until the end of the year. And if you did internal femur is better because of quicker recovery less complicatoon with internal.
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Will he be doing internals for tibiae, or only femurs? I should mention too, that my right leg is an inch longer than my left- not something noticeable to a layperson, but as a result my pelvis is tilted (visible on X-ray) and it may be the reason I developed scoliosis as well. It's the left tibia that's shorter than the right, so for that reason too, it's probably better to lengthen the tibiae than femurs
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The new Mitkovic internal nails will go out in one year, however he wrote that his device is less accurate than Precice, also is very similar to plate fixation. The minimum signal of failure should be a great concern. I read somewhere that precice nails can be used in heights of 160+, but I can be wrong, it could be adapted.You wrote that you cant sleep with those things, there is another option: a monolateral frame plus a nail, that is a lot more comfortable than conventional circular frames, also the chances of misalignments are not big because of the nail inside your bone; Muharrem Inan and Pili offer this.
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Phew, well I was worried that I'd get similar replies here that I've gotten from the family and friends I've shared this desire with- they all think I am crazy, that my height is fine especially for a female, and since I am thin and have good proportions (though I wouldn't mind having longer legs, myself) that to undergo such an extreme operation and so much expense is ridiculous.
Part of me does question if I'm nuts for wanting this and wish it wasn't the case, but it's not about what other people think (as my height doesn't seem to prevent me from attracting men or much else socially) it's about how I see myself, what I want.
yeah you're not crazy for wanting to be taller. being really short can be tough regardless if you're a guy or girl. you're also right that LL is a pretty extreme procedure, so be sure to research as much as you can about the risks and potential complications to make sure it's worth it for you. if you do decide it's worth it, then going with a reputable doctor greatly reduces the risk and I'd recommend to save up for a good doctor than to risk your legs with a really cheap one
I will do a mock up but I lean toward tibiae as I think longer lower legs look better aesthetically than long femurs. Also, I have really thin thighs but have always wanted thinner lower legs (I wouldn't call them big, but they're not skinny either) so I know it's the way I would want to go
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If thinner lower legs is important to you, then I'm not sure tibia LL is the way to go. In some of the tibia LL diaries I've read they mention that their calves exploded in size after recovery. I think sweden who did tibs mentioned his calves are as big as his thighs now. I don't know if that always happens though and I think they were all men. might be a good question for a doctor who's done a decent amount of tibia LL like paley to see if that happens to his female patients too
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The new Mitkovic internal nails will go out in one year, however he wrote that his device is less accurate than Precice, also is very similar to plate fixation. The minimum signal of failure should be a great concern. I read somewhere that precice nails can be used in heights of 160+, but I can be wrong, it could be adapted.You wrote that you cant sleep with those things, there is another option: a monolateral frame plus a nail, that is a lot more comfortable than conventional circular frames, also the chances of misalignments are not big because of the nail inside your bone; Muharrem Inan and Pili offer this.
Can monorails be done for tibiae?
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If thinner lower legs is important to you, then I'm not sure tibia LL is the way to go. In some of the tibia LL diaries I've read they mention that their calves exploded in size after recovery. I think sweden who did tibs mentioned his calves are as big as his thighs now. I don't know if that always happens though and I think they were all men. might be a good question for a doctor who's done a decent amount of tibia LL like paley to see if that happens to his female patients too
Oh wow, thanks for pointing that out. I guess if that's the case, femurs might be better. I do have a length discrepancy between my tibiae though, so I wonder if I would need to do tibiae to correct this or femurs could do it?
Determining who is a good doctor seems to be tricky- it's universally agreed that Paley is good, but there seems to be some disagreement over most of the others. Who do you consider the best?
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Yes, monorials can be done in tibias but I would suggest plus a nail, not only the frames.
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Can monorails be done for tibiae?
Yes.
Oh wow, thanks for pointing that out. I guess if that's the case, femurs might be better. I do have a length discrepancy between my tibiae though, so I wonder if I would need to do tibiae to correct this or femurs could do it?
If the discrepancy is between the tibia, then lengthening the shorter tibia would be the only option to correct the discrepancy. Lengthening the femur so both legs were the same length would result in a length discrepancy in the femur while still having the discrepancy in the tibia even though the overall length would be the same length. I wouldn't overly worry about hypertrophy of the tibia - it results from 'tight' calves after lengthening because the muscle is constantly under stretched tension and react somewhat as if you were training them under load as you would in a gym. You would have very impressive calves but as a woman I'd estimate they wouldn't be too much of an issue - even if they were, it would be more important to address the discrepancy.
Determining who is a good doctor seems to be tricky- it's universally agreed that Paley is good, but there seems to be some disagreement over most of the others. Who do you consider the best?
In my opinion and research thus far, I would only consider;
- Dr Dror Paley
- Dr Robert Rozbruch
- Dr Donghoon Lee
- Dr Franz Birkholtz
- Dr Mangal Parihar
Of course, I may have overlooked some doctors for the procedure and I would advise you research further, read diaries and contact each doctor if you were to go through with the procedure.
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Ok thank you. I'm still concerned about the monorail for the scars. But it is cheaper than internals.
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Solomin from Russia has to be in the good list. American doctors are as expensive as nothing.
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No one chooses Dr. guichet?
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Very expensive for me, I think precice is the superior nail.
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I have to research Solomin. I've read some scary outcomes from patients of Guichet..,
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No one chooses Dr. guichet?
I personally don't recommend Dr Guichet because of his excessive distraction during surgery and very rapid lengthening. I don't believe the soft tissue can truly accommodate such rapid bone distraction. While he has had some very successful patients, he has also had some less than satisfactory results.
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Tiny girls are cute
What scary stories about Guichet? I Have read about Monegal and Sarin but not Guichet
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I would do externals if I thought I could sleep with the frames. But I know I won't be able to.
Sleeping with frames is indeed maddening, especially if you're not normally a back-sleeper. Myself, I did eventually get used to it, though. When you're tired enough, you can fall asleep standing up, I'm sure. Since I've always been a side-sleeper or front-sleeper, propping up pillows behind myself and between my frames did the trick....felt crazy disorienting waking up, though.
And the scars are worse with external, I thought? I wish there was someone inexpensive that did internal tibiae
I've got some pics and vids of my rather horrific scars, but I had a revision nailing and bone graft, so double the marks on my L leg. I don't have hairy legs like a lot of guys, so there's not much covering all my battle marks...not to mention the little herniations I got.
I assume you don't have hairy legs either, so externals might be a bad choice if you wear lots of skirts and shorts.
If you're in the US...particularly the West Coast, I know a couple docs doing Precise who might be affordable.
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Tiny girls are cute
Some people seem to think so. Even if I do this I'll still be on the small side though, just not super small like now.
What scary stories about Guichet? I Have read about Monegal and Sarin but not Guichet
I am trying to remember which ones were Guichet and not others, cause at this point stories all kind of blend, but I think one patient died or had an amputation, then there were other permanent issues with walking and things I think
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if you will do this you will be 5'3. you will be 1cm below average so no small at all
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if you will do this you will be 5'3. you will be 1cm below average so no small at all
I like to think so, but lots of people still categorize 5'3" as "short" and "petite." But I will still be tiny weight and frame wise, as I have small bones and don't weigh a hell of a lot
5'3" is an inch below average, though, not a cm. and since if I do tibiae (which would be ideal so I can correct the length disrecapnacy between them as well), I may only get 2 inches, which would put me at 5'2.5"
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Sleeping with frames is indeed maddening, especially if you're not normally a back-sleeper. Myself, I did eventually get used to it, though. When you're tired enough, you can fall asleep standing up, I'm sure. Since I've always been a side-sleeper or front-sleeper, propping up pillows behind myself and between my frames did the trick....felt crazy disorienting waking up, though.
I've got some pics and vids of my rather horrific scars, but I had a revision nailing and bone graft, so double the marks on my L leg. I don't have hairy legs like a lot of guys, so there's not much covering all my battle marks...not to mention the little herniations I got.
I assume you don't have hairy legs either, so externals might be a bad choice if you wear lots of skirts and shorts.
If you're in the US...particularly the West Coast, I know a couple docs doing Precise who might be affordable.
Yes, you are correct that I don't have hairy legs, at least not when I'm wearing shorts or skirts. So the scars would be an issue. I'm in the US, so anyone here is a plus, especially if I can get insurance to cover part of the cost since I have a significant length discrepancy between my lower legs...
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Hello Tinkerbelle,
I really would thinking about LL in lower legs. As a girl I think it will look very odd when having long lower legs esp. when wear high heels. and your wishing of 8 cm is not possible in lower leg. it will destroy all proportion and walk and athletics. long femur can hide with long shirt etc. long tibia no hide possible easy. really think about your choice.
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Hello Tinkerbelle,
I really would thinking about LL in lower legs. As a girl I think it will look very odd when having long lower legs esp. when wear high heels. and your wishing of 8 cm is not possible in lower leg. it will destroy all proportion and walk and athletics. long femur can hide with long shirt etc. long tibia no hide possible easy. really think about your choice.
Hey Alex,
I have a length discrepancy in my tibiae that I would also like to correct, so that is why I would prefer to do the lower legs. I wouldn't go for 8cm in the tibiae, I think 5 cm is the limit, and since my lower legs aren't as skinny as my upper, I think they would actually look better being a couple inches longer. I don't wear heels, so I'm not worried about my legs looking too long in them. If for some reason after consulting with doctors they determine its better to do femurs I would opt for that, but I think given that the length discrepancy is in my tibiae, they probably would recommend that (and insurance would be more likely to cover part of the cost since it's not just for cosmetic purposes)
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5 cm shouldn't mess up your proportions unless your calves are already really long in comparison to your thighs. I'm with you on the external tibia scar concerns though. :( I guess we could just wear jeans all the time after, but that would be really inconvenient if you live somewhere hot. I'm definitely interested to see how Miktovic's 16k internal device is going to do when it comes out, so much more affordable than precise with any doctor.
I'm personally hoping to make it to 5'4-5'5. Average height. Although in the Midwest it seems like the average girl is taller than that, but maybe it's just my town.
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I agree. Especially because I don't have long lower legs and have always wished they were much longer. I tried to attach a pic to illustrate but got a message saying the upload folder is full? Perhaps someone can direct me to an admin to sort that out?
What is your height?
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I agree. Especially because I don't have long lower legs and have always wished they were much longer. I tried to attach a pic to illustrate but got a message saying the upload folder is full? Perhaps someone can direct me to an admin to sort that out?
What is your height?
You can use imgur.com to upload a pic and link it here.
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You can use imgur.com to upload a pic and link it here.
Erggh...dunno how I feel having my images public on the internet. Is there another way?
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Ok just posted a pic in the proportions section if anyone wants to see- then I think folks will get why I would prefer to lengthen my lower legs instead of upper...
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Yes, you are correct that I don't have hairy legs, at least not when I'm wearing shorts or skirts. So the scars would be an issue. I'm in the US, so anyone here is a plus, especially if I can get insurance to cover part of the cost since I have a significant length discrepancy between my lower legs...
There might be a good chance you can get a discrepancy correction covered under your health insurance. Anthem Blue Cross did pay for my Revision Nailing/Bone graft/Achillotenotomy last year, less deductible. I knew I was going for something major, so I got the best plan I could possibly afford and it was totally worth it. Who knows if things will change when we go from Obamacare to Trumpcare, though. Hope to God they keep the pre-existing conditions provision.
Anyway, about the California docs I know, I'm sure everyone here will urge you to go with the known names like Paley and Rozbruch. So go ahead and look into them, do your due diligence. If you want the contact info, shoot me a PM. I'm still not big on promoting any docs on here...but I will tell you my doc has spent a lot of his career doing lengthenings for trauma/deformity/discrepancy.
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I agree. Especially because I don't have long lower legs and have always wished they were much longer. I tried to attach a pic to illustrate but got a message saying the upload folder is full? Perhaps someone can direct me to an admin to sort that out?
What is your height?
Mine are the same haha. My legs are quite short compared to my torso too. Since you've got a discrepancy in your tibias I would think getting them lengthened would be your best bet. If you did femurs you'd end up with one longer femur and still have the shorter tibia. I think if I were you, like the guy above me said, I would definitely see if health insurance can cover some of your surgery costs because of the 1 inch discrepancy.
And I'd like to say I'm 5'2, I think 5'1 3/4 might be more accurate. I'm just slightly under.
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Well non weight bearing nails are an option but you will be unable to stand. Im getting scar revision and tattoo coverup so its not an issue. I also posted a topic for external tibial scars so you could take a look at it.
Good luck! ;D