Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: crimsontide on March 22, 2014, 09:36:28 AM
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Hello board, been planning this a while. I'm going to Moscow next week to get my tibias lengthened with Dr Bagirov.. The process and communication so far has been excellent with his assistant Anna. I have some concerns reading wannabe giant's thread, mainly regarding availability of Dr after surgery, but otherwise feel pretty confident. I'm not sure if I'll stay the whole time in Moscow or return home. I wanna do at least 6 cm, so might go home during lengthening. I was also considering Dr Mitkovic.
The reason I chose Bagirov is because Dr Mitkovic just stopped replying. I'm not looking forward to being awake during surgery, but I'm sure it'll be fine. . I chose Moscow over baku for 2 reasons.The assistants in Moscow are significantly better at replying, and their English is far superior. I also received the invitation letter needed for visa within an hour of speaking with Anna. I was also not charged for it. The assistants in Baku wanted $300 before sending the invitation.
If you have any questions or suggestions, let me know.
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I think it is a good choice, and yeah Anna is really great at communicating, she is fast and considerate. She uses an application to aid her english skills so she is easy to talk to.
Also you really dont have to worry about the surgery being awake. It doesnt hurt at all (exception being inserting the needle in the spine for anesthesia hurt a little bit for me) And the surgery was done very fast.
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All the best :D Have you decided on accommodation and how long you'll stay?
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ty wannabe... btw, how does the Dr. measure you? Standing up???. Jerry, I'll be at the hospital as wannabe was
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Good luck crimsontide.
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Good luck crimson tide! I'm sure everything will go perfectly for you :) hang in there and keep us updated on your journey... We're all here for you!
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ty wannabe... btw, how does the Dr. measure you? Standing up???. Jerry, I'll be at the hospital as wannabe was
They measured me standing up with a stadiometer, and then they also scanned the dimensions of my legs in some kind of high tech device, with this they got all the info they need for my legs, how long they are and how they bend and if rotation is needed etc.
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just picked up my passport with visa. Planning on going to Russia tomorrow. I have to admit, I'm a bit nervous. Going to a foreign nation to get my legs broken is a bit extreme, but I have confidence that I'll be be okay. I'll try to update daily
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He preform this surgery is Baku, doesn't he? How often does he travel from Baku to Moscow?
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They measured me standing up with a stadiometer, and then they also scanned the dimensions of my legs in some kind of high tech device, with this they got all the info they need for my legs, how long they are and how they bend and if rotation is needed etc.
The examination sounds very thorough, and it sounds like the doctor acknowledges the importance of alignment as well as length, a crucial and primary element any doctor should be scrutinized on. I really wish I learned of Bagirov before I jumped the gun!
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wannabegiant, are the frames you're wearing the same as the frames in the video of bagirov that you posted?
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wannabegiant, are the frames you're wearing the same as the frames in the video of bagirov that you posted?
Yes, im pretty sure they are the same. It sure looks that way at least.
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ty wannabe... Those can be pretty easily concealed under pants then. I'm flying to moscow in a few hours. Nervous, but also ready to get this done
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Wannabegiant, are u current just standing or can u move with the walker ?
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He preform this surgery is Baku, doesn't he? How often does he travel from Baku to Moscow?
The Dr perform the surgery in both Baku and Moscow. I read that he is mostly in Moscow and goes to Baku once every month.
Good luck crimsontide. Hope the weather isn't too cold there.
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Ty Jerry. I'm at the clinic now. Anna is great, everyone is nice though. .. They Have a very nice pretty girl from Bulgaria but she's leaving Monday. . She Had the Surgery on Tuesday and is walking already. .. They had a girl that was 180 cm that lengthened 7 or 8 cm but she already left. The fixator is very small. It's a half ring, and does not stick out much. I don't think there's a smaller fixator than this, including salamehs device.
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Ty Jerry. I'm at the clinic now. Anna is great, everyone is nice though. .. They Have a very nice pretty girl from Bulgaria but she's leaving Monday. . She Had the Surgery on Tuesday and is walking already. .. They had a girl that was 180 cm that lengthened 7 or 8 cm but she already left. The fixator is very small. It's a half ring, and does not stick out much. I don't think there's a smaller fixator than this, including salamehs device.
half ring ? does it look like salameh fixator?
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Yes. .. it's tiny. .. A girl here was wearing pajama pants today and could not tell she was wearing fixator. .. I was wrong about girl though. .. One girl lengthened 10 cm and they say she will be okay but she's still recovering. ... but I'm not sure she exercised enough and 10 cm is a lot
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Having surgery on Tuesday or Wednesday. . Met the Dr today..He asked me how much I wanted to leng1.5 yearsn. . He said there wer6-7 different lengthening intervals, from 3-6 cm,6-9 and 9-11 cm. He recommended 5 or 6 cm as the ideal so Was happy when I said 6 cm. I asked him about complications. He is very confident that as long as I follow his instructions, everything will be fine. . He wants me to lengthen .6 mm a day. I won't start lengthening until I go home though. Patients here are walking (With walker) The day after surgery. He is very upfront about total recovery time. .. From 8 months total to 1.5 years. . This is for 6-7 cm. Ultimately it is up to the patient. I agree with him btw that there is no need to stay in hospital while lengthening. One can do the exercises by themselves and the patient of course lengthens himself. . He does say that after lengthening, we need to come back for a checkup and then of course at the end of consolidation to remove frames. . If you have questions, feel free to ask
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Hi Crisomtide,
Good luck with your surgery. have you asked to your doctor about lengthening lose? With only external you can lose 0'5-1cm.
I am planing my surgery with doctor salameh this year i had two appoinments with him, but i have somes doubts if it would be better
to do LON, but in this case i have pain in my kness the rest of my life. I don't know what option is better.
cheers
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What if there's complications during lengthening period? Pin site infection, ballerina foot etc.
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Dont see how I can lose 1 cm with external. .... Once you lengthen a certain amount I don't understand how it is possible to shrink. I think that maybe patients think they have lengthened let's say 6 cm but in reality only lengthened 5 cm, but I can't see how you shrink to 5 cm if you actually lengthen 6 cm. Jerry. The Dr said ballerina is caused by 2 things. The first is the fault of the surgeon. The second is if you don't do the exercises that are prescribed. ,He says it won't be an issue if I simply follow his instructions. The thing he emphasized most was keeping the legs straight and not bending the knees. Pin site infections are very minor and easily taken care of.
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Hello,,..
I wonder why didn't you choose LON or LATN, since Dr.BAGIROV can use internal nail too?
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As far as I know, Dr Bagirov does not offer lon or latn.
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RGKEY asked him and he said yes, he is performing LON, and LATN..
oh wait not sure if it's LON or LATN, but he can perform nail inside ..
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RGKEY asked him and he said yes, he is performing LON, and LATN..
oh wait not sure if it's LON or LATN, but he can perform nail inside ..
I think you are confusing Dr. Barinov with Dr. Bagirov.
RGKEY did his surgery with Dr. Barinov.
Im pretty sure Dr. Bagirov does not perform LON or LATN.
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Rgkey's Doctor is Barinov, not Bagirov
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I think you are confusing Dr. Barinov with Dr. Bagirov.
RGKEY did his surgery with Dr. Barinov.
Im pretty sure Dr. Bagirov does not perform LON or LATN.
yes you're right ... :-[
the names look so similar to me started with B and end with V ! ..
my bad..
anyway all the best in your LL journey , crimsontide ;D
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Dont see how I can lose 1 cm with external. .... Once you lengthen a certain amount I don't understand how it is possible to shrink. I think that maybe patients think they have lengthened let's say 6 cm but in reality only lengthened 5 cm, but I can't see how you shrink to 5 cm if you actually lengthen 6 cm.
I think it's known as pin site loss. The theory is that standing up & walking put weight on the bones which compress it and decreases the gain height. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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I think it's known as pin site loss. The theory is that standing up & walking put weight on the bones which compress it and decreases the gain height. Correct me if I'm wrong.
pin pending is something different, with Bagirovs frames as they have fewer but thicker pins, pin bending can mean you "lose" 3 mm at most according to Bagirov, but you simply turn more to make up for that.
However losing 1 cm is different, that is a risk with subsidence, which can happen after frame removal with externals only. However it seems 1 cm loss is pretty rare and it also depends on how long you stay in the frames until you remove them.
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Hey crimsontide, I got a few questions so I'll just line them all up if that's ok
- any pics of the clinic or the frames?
- are there any advantages of the smaller frames over the traditional ilizarov?
- could you elaborate more on the consultation with the Doctor and pre op checkup?
- lastly how long do you plan to stay in Russia ?
Thanks and gd luck with the surgery this week.
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ill pst up pics soon if I can. the smaller frames are concealable under pants, I mean 100%. they do a lot of blood tests,and pre op measurements. Will stay in Russia just a week more I think. ty
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They just measured my height but can't be right. ... they measured me standing up, and said I'm 169.5. But I'm pretty sure I'm a Little less than 167... The patient s here even say I look around 166.... Im sure that I can't be 169.5... I was measured when I was maybe 24 and had already stopped growing, and I think was 166... Definitely not 169.... Wanna be giant said they measured him with machine but the machine only measures the legs, not full height..I'm a little worried why I was measured at 169... The Dr did confirm what ive known. .. my tibias are short. .. it makes me look even shorter than I am. .... but can't be 169.
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They just measured my height but can't be right. ... they measured me standing up, and said I'm 169.5. But I'm pretty sure I'm a Little less than 167... The patient s here even say I look around 166.... Im sure that I can't be 169.5... I was measured when I was maybe 24 and had already stopped growing, and I think was 166... Definitely not 169.... Wanna be giant said they measured him with machine but the machine only measures the legs, not full height..I'm a little worried why I was measured at 169... The Dr did confirm what ive known. .. my tibias are short. .. it makes me look even shorter than I am. .... but can't be 169.
I said they measured my total height with a stadiometer first, but i think they measured me a bit wrong too, maybe it wasnt calibrated correctly. but the machine only measured my legs as i already mentioned.
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Machine definitely is not right. .. which is worrying. ... How do we know how much we have measured if the machine isn't correct? What did they measure you at? And what do fou think is your actual starting height?
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Machine definitely is not right. .. which is worrying. ... How do we know how much we have measured if the machine isn't correct? What did they measure you at? And what do fou think is your actual starting height?
I have measured at 175 and 174 in Sweden, their stadiometer showed me to be 173,5. This can be explained by torso fluctuation i guess, and also maybe some miscalibration on their stadiometer. Im also pretty sure i measure taller when i stand with my feet parallell with my shoulders (ie naturally) rather than pushing the feet close together like they require you to do with the stadiometer. (i have slightly bowed legs as well as being flatfooted).
The high tech machine didnt scan my full height, only my legs, after that the computer showed me if there was any discreprency between the legs and other data. To see if i needed some corrections as well as lengthening. But i had quite symmetrical legs apparantly.
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We should insist on measuring our progress with the high tech machine only. ... We'll know we measured 4 and 6 cm respectively if the computer says our tibias are 4 and 6 cm longer. ..
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We should insist on measuring our progress with the high tech machine only. ... We'll know we measured 4 and 6 cm respectively if the computer says our tibias are 4 and 6 cm longer. ..
Yeah true i figured that as long as the gap in the tibias are 4 cm, and my tibias are straight, then that should translate into the same total height gain, of course it is best to add a few mm extra to make sure.
Also as long as i am 4 cm taller than their measured total height, then that means i became 4 cm taller, even if their device is calibrated wrong. At home as i measured 174-175, i will now be 178-179 when im done.
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I agree regarding tibia measuring. I don't trust that stadiometer though. It could be calibrated differently next time we use it
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I agree regarding tibia measuring. I don't trust that stadiometer though. It could be calibrated differently next time we use it
Thats true as well, best to rely on the x-rays then :P
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yes:))) i might go for 7-8 cm even... i hope the turns accurately reflect the length
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yes:))) i might go for 7-8 cm even... i hope the turns accurately reflect the length
That would be cool if you manage that ;) I could never imagine staying in frames for that long though, im pretty sure they wont let you out of the frames for 12 months minimum if you do 8 cm. Fortunately 4 cm is enough for me to reach 178-179 :P
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they have the 2 different plans for lengthening, as I'm sure you've seen. I'm going to to choose the faster program
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they have the 2 different plans for lengthening, as I'm sure you've seen. I'm going to to choose the faster program
Not sure what you are talking about now, what 2 different plans?
I had the option of turning 0.75 mm a day, or slow down to 0.5 mm/day if it ended up being to painful. What other options is there to speed up the program? They didnt mention it to me
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just had surgery... feels a bit weird.. like i wanna crack my anke but cant... not pain just weird... will update soon
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awesome, you sound in good shape. how long was the surgery? Wannabegiant mention it was around 30 minutes.
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It's 1 day after surgery. I'm on pain Meds, so I'm not in any pain Right now. ... Will start walking Tomorrow. .. The back of my legs feel tight but no pain... ill probably Lengthen .75 mm a day. .. i wish I knew where to get that foot holder
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I stood up today for first time. . Not so much walking yet. .. First time I tried it hurt bad. . I asked for anesthetic then it was much easier. .. First time is the worst though and now it's over. .. Saw Dr again today and will start lengthening on Tuesday
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It's 1 day after surgery. I'm on pain Meds, so I'm not in any pain Right now. ... Will start walking Tomorrow. .. The back of my legs feel tight but no pain... ill probably Lengthen .75 mm a day. .. i wish I knew where to get that foot holder
Didnt the nurses give you a box at the end of the bed? i used that to keep my feet 90 degrees during my stay there, when i came home i made my own footholders with the help of Rgkeys instruction videos. You should check them out
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I have that box but not doing much. .I need a foot holder. .. I walked to bathroom and Back today. .. good news is that I feel nothing now when I lay down. ... walking is a workout
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Maybe the most thing so far is the wifi since yesterday does not work. .. I'm forced to use my mobile for everyt6 now
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Not happy today. .. I have a sore on my lower Back killing me. .. The pain Meds they give here now do nothing. .. and I mean nothing. .. it might as well be water that is being injected. ... The nurses Here have been very good, but the one this morning basically ignores me. .. I show her what's wrong on Google translate, and she gives me this 1 second I'll be right back hand gesture, then doesn't come Back. It's happened 3 times today already. .. The sore though is what concerns me most , it's basically at the top of my butt , looking like a ty weekend
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And still no wifi
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Dr just came. .. feel better now. .. pain is very bearable but as others have said it disrupts your sleeping. .. which is Making me very irritable
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I have very muscular legs. ... which is why I'm now thinking I made a mistake Coming to bagirov. .. This device does not seem made to be used by men with thick legs. .. ill let you guys judge. .. When I stand it just gets worse. .. As my legs expand. .. my legs are super tight. .. I tried walking just now with no pain medicine, didn't go far. Worse than yesterday, and my ankles were really feeling it
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Update. .. Im doing much better now. . Walking around but it's like a turtle walking;)
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Come on man just hang in there, You didn't come this far just to quit now, all the sacrifices you made, all the pain you had to endure in your life as a short dude. You can do it.
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Oh I'm not gonna quit... Just sucks being immobile. .. but I've walked around a bit today. .. Just slowly
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Still no wifi, which is a big issue for me. ..Since I work online, etc... been 4 or more days with no wifi. .. Im thinking it will not be back on. .. Something to consider if you're planning on coming here
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hi crisomtide,
do you post one photo with the device under your trousers?
I am thinking my surgery with doctor salameh but i don't know if it would be posible hidden the device under the trousers.
I think bagirov's device and salameh's are similar in size. The different is the screws and bars.
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Paco, let me tell you the truth.. I used to think of how would look before I got the Surgery. . Now that I have gotten the surgery, all I care about is getting through this with as few complications, and for it to be as painless as possible. .. i dont think even for a second about how the frame looks, that's a luxury for people reading about ll, not For those going through it. All that should concern you is getting the most stable frame as possible. .. Trust me, you will not be thinking about how the frame looks once you get the Surgery. ..
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I have very muscular legs. ... which is why I'm now thinking I made a mistake Coming to bagirov. .. This device does not seem made to be used by men with thick legs. .. ill let you guys judge. .. When I stand it just gets worse. .. As my legs expand. .. my legs are super tight. .. I tried walking just now with no pain medicine, didn't go far. Worse than yesterday, and my ankles were really feeling it
That sounds similar to what I went through as someone with skinny legs and bulky Ilizarov frames. Maybe not as bad, but those shouldn't be unexpected symptoms for an LLer.
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Ty medium. ...
I feel much better today, felt very okay walking. Wifi is Back on. .. I start Lengthening tomorrow
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Hi Crimsontide,
You are right, but i don't know that somebody knows about my surgery only my parents a my best friend.
you are in the hospital yet.
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welll.. all i can say right now is the service here is not good, at least for me... the nurses are very nice, but as far as lengthening goes, and how to properly treat patients, they really have no idea... they are huge on walking, and do not believe in giving pain medicine or even strong sleeping pills... i dont know if this is common, but when i try to get out of bed now, and when my legs bend, the discomfort is unreal... it can not be normal.. as an example, taking a flight for me now would be impossible, or torture,literally... when i bend my legs, they, or the frame gets extremely extremely tight, i cant possible sit down with legs bended after a few minutes, its just too uncomfortable.... i ask for a wheelchair, to try to get used to being one, and they bring me a wheelchair with no footrest.... at this point, idk how i can even go home,, i cant last being in a sitting position, 10 hour flight back to the states would kill me,though dr bagirov said its no problem.... trust me, i can take pain, it is a problem.... im not sure if its because the device is too tight on my legs, because i have very big leg muscles.. or if this feeling is very common... i just know it really really suckssss big time...
im not sure how i can even get up to go to bathroom, im sure ill have to, but its gonna be like torture..... thinking i should have gotten standard ilizarov device... but perhaps what im feeling is normal.... i troed to upload my legs with device so everyone can see, but it wont allow me to.....
another thing for anyone thinking about the option they offer in baku....i was quoted initially $1000 if i wanted to stay in baku for recovery... well, I let them know i was thinking of recovering in baku, as it would be cheaper than moscow,,, they had a man there contact me, well the price i got was 1500 of their local currency, which he said was basically equivalent to euros, so thats a little more than $2000, not $1000, supposedly id have someone clean, and a guy come every few days, but $2000 for an apt in azerbaijan is insane... I could rent a studio in london or manhattan for that price
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Weird that they apparantly keep bothering you about walking so early, I started walking as early as you did, and it was tough in the beginning, but i did walk 2-3 times a day, to the bathroom and back to my own room in the clinic, the nurses mentioned it to me that i should do it, but after that i had my own responsibility to do it. I think you should take it easy in the beginning though.
I flied home the 11:th day after surgery, and i still had pain walking by then but it was manageble even without painkillers (which i stopped taking completely after around day 5 post surgery) and sitting for extended periods of time was very uncomfortable and noticeable and constant pain, but still manageable (i tried to move my feet a lot, both in the plane, cab and in the wheelchair, it helped a bit)
Of course my flight was only 2 hours, so yeah 10 hours would be rough. Maybe you should stay at the hospital for a bit longer than i did, by that time sitting will be easier.
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ty wannabe.... i tried to get up today,and the pain in the back of my leg was intense, i had to lay back down.... not sure if its because of lengthening, but pain is getting worse by the day,not better.... of it doesnt stop soon, idk what ill do... its pretty bad now
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theres 2 nurses here,lena and gula... they are saints.... they make it bearable here..... very very kind
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question about bruising and discoloration... mine are badly bruised in back of legs,how normal is this,and how long until it goes away,it looks bad
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I've never seen or heard of that. But if it's just bruising maybe it's not a big deal.
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but youve heard of bad bruising???
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I've never heard of it in an LL patient. You would've been an unusual case in Beijing. It's probably because of all the walking they have you doing; I've also never heard of someone walking as much as you.
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oh great,not good..... i fotta take pics., i have awful bruising..... wonder what its from,i dnt think walking
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wannabe, did you get bruising? ive seen a few people here with bad bruising,others with none
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wannabe, did you get bruising? ive seen a few people here with bad bruising,others with none
I had very little bruising, on one spot on each leg (though not exactly symmetrical obviously), in the middle of the outer sides of the calves. They are gone now though, cant remember when they disappeared because i didnt pay much attention to them, since I didnt have any pain specific to the bruised areas. Im pretty sure they where gone quite fast though. Otherwise my mother would have mentioned it when i got home, she always noticed stuff like that lol
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I'll update more fully soon. .. but I have pain at a pin site, almost the same position as wb butright leg... The pin hole looks abnormal to me , as if the hole is getting ripped open wider, but might just be a normal pin hole. .. If I pull skin there it is very sensitive. .. I dont think it could be the pin moving and ripping the skin? Might be infection.... Need to get antibiotic. .. it looks gross to me. . If this is what the holes look like, it's gonna be ugly. ... Of course getting a hold of the Dr is almost impossible. ... At this point, I say skip bagirov, and go Somewhere where the aftercare is top notch. ... it is nonexistent with the bagirov clinic. .. I just hope I can get this pin hole pain fixed. ...
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Also, the right leg is worse than left by far. .. I can't even bend my right knee yet. .. Left I can easily. .. Maybe that pin is going through a nerve
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Tell one of the nurses to give you antiseptic solution to clean the pinsite, and then ask for antibiotic cream/ointment and put it on the pinsite, and change the pinsite dressing in that spot and put some antibiotics on the cotton piece as well. My small "infection" has improved quite a bit already with this, hope it works for you too.
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Ty wbg... i already am gone from Russia. .. I think bactrim will do the trick
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Sounds familiar to me (except the infection part). I was lucky enough to avoid that despite the pinsite tearing.
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Medium, ugh, I feel comforted though that you went through this though, since you seem to be ok. .. What causes pinsite tear? Seems to be only 1 site. .. You just had to take the pain? Looks ok now???? Just a little bit scary to me ... ty guys
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Do you mean like you regret doing it with this Dr?
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I'll explain. I had accident and fell hard on Right leg from wheelchair. ... i contacted Dr just to be sure the pin Was ok. .. I dont want to turn screw 3 months and only have left leg lengthen. ... it's been 3 DAYS and Dr fahri made 2 appointments to have a video call on skype and both times never showed. .. Im pretty sure I'll be ok in the end but this is out of control. .. literally impossible to talk to either bagirov or fahri. . Also had a non surgical issue that I won't Mention here. .. The aftercare is non existent... I have what is either an infection in pin site or perhaps the pin hole is just expanding, it hurt like hell.... wanted to talk to a Dr to get these issues sorted out and nothing. ... Thank god I Have a gf that helps me now or I'd be screwed. .
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Medium, ugh, I feel comforted though that you went through this though, since you seem to be ok. .. What causes pinsite tear? Seems to be only 1 site. .. You just had to take the pain? Looks ok now???? Just a little bit scary to me ... ty guys
They passed out tramadol when they felt like it, but yeah for the most part I just had to live with the pain. The pins will tear the skin if it's not stretching fast enough to go along with your lengthening. I had one really bad one too, but eventually the others tore a bit too.
I had scar revision surgery so of course everything looks fine now. But that's going to be a bigger scar if it's tearing the skin.
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Hi, I was actually thinking about going to dr Bagirov, would you recommend him.?
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Michael, if you want to go with Dr Bagirov, do the following things first.
- Arrange your own accommodation and caretaker in Moscow because you can only stay 1-2 weeks at the clinic. They have 4 rooms only and they encourage patients to leave early.
- Get confirmation from the clinic that you will have follow up consultation with either Dr Bargiov or Dr Fahri every 1-2 weeks after surgery with xrays. The Drs can be hard to reach after the surgery.
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My right leg is fine... as an update..on the night i left clinic, going into my apt after plane ride, the driver left me for a second without locking wheels, and i rolled down ramp and fell out of the chair on my right leg.... but right leg is ok now,and left one is bad...
my left leg is fine too, except for one spot where a bolt is on the upper ring, the outside of the ring..... it is really annoying me throught the day, 24 hours a day, since tuesday... the bone there is very sore,no infection present.... but when i get up to go to bathroom, or sit down, its hard to bend, as that spot is so sore and tight, like the bone will be ripped apart.... not sure if this is normal.... i tell the dr, his reply is that all is ok, could be worse, i should ignore it
he hasnt even seen it or an x ray, and he says this.... not making me happy.... if someone has a slight headache, it could be a lot worse for this person, but at the same time, a headache is an issue and can be helped....
i can not continue to lengthen if this issue at one site on my left leg os not resolved...... its occupying my time 24 hours a day,, it is that irritating
if the dr doesnt try to help more,ill be forced to go see another dr or stop lengthening this week... i can not live a few months with this pain... and there is no sign its going away anytime soon
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I would say at this point... I cant recommend going to dr bagirov, and it is not even about his skills as a surgeon.... a patient doing this surgery needs to be under supervision during lengthening, at least in my opinion.... at least for first month.....
trying to communicate by email to a person that does not speak your language is not the way to go if you're getting this surgery... id love to be able to ring a nurse,get some pain meds or an x ray, maybe my issue would have been fixed already... but i cant, as im 1000 miles away currently.. which sucks
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I remember feeling like my knees were going to burst sometimes, so I can relate to your feeling that you leg will be ripped apart. It never seemed to burst/rip though. As bad as the pain is, your doc is probably right about this being something that is normal during LL.
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medium, your replies are the main reason i continue..... i feel very alone, as im in a foreign nation with my gf, but other than that, im alone in my bed most of the day, and the dr is far away... im probably fine, but i tend to think the worst, as i cant get it checked very easily... your knees felt like they would burst when you tried to sit down??? the main problem is this toilet here, its very low, so i have to really sit down low!!! but also when i sleep, its irritating... you experienced similar things??
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Yes, throughout most of my LL. I'd try to lift my legs and it felt like the IM nail was going to burst out of my knee. My knees were so stiff it took me 30 minutes to straighten them fully if I'd been bending them, or 30 minutes to bend them if they'd been straight. They never would bend all the way though; 90 degrees was as far as I could go. I was worried they'd misplaced the pins too close to the knees.
Sometimes I did fear something was severely wrong beyond what an LL patient should be experiencing, especially with two dozen other patients at the hospital not having problems as bad as mine. The doctors always just told me it would be fine, and it was in the end.
I always kept my legs straight when using the toilet. I propped them up on a chair so I wouldn't have to go down into a seated position with the knees bent. But I always had help going to the bathroom so I don't know if that's an option for you. Maybe you can rig up something similar.
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reading this, i feel better.... im looking at other diaries, and everyone seems to be doing great, no pain, so easy,etc.... im doing ok too tbh, but this one pin site is hurting so bad, causing all these issues... ill see if i can get something like a taller seat to go on top of the toilet, it is really low..... ty medium
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I'm still a little numb near osteo site..Is that normal?
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I'm still a little numb near osteo site..Is that normal?
Full normal.
You can be numb up until 2 years or even the rest of your life.
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Yep, I've got some numbness there too. Actually, I think the osteotomy site is the worst off of any part of my legs right now. The skin there is almost paper-thin, making healing difficult.
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ty guys.... im just gonna assume ill always be numb there
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ty guys.... im just gonna assume ill always be numb there
How big is your Osteotomy site? Apparently the size of the cut / trauma and the location (proximity to major nerves which Innervates the cutaneous nerves) are important and do have an effect on whether you will recover or not.
Is it the same as the infamous C-cut?
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i dont really care much if it stays numb a little to be honest.... its not a c cut... i just like to assume the worst scenario possible so i dont get disappointed
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Hi Crimson, this is my very first post (lurking for few months 8).
I am 170 cm, 63 kg, 43 years old, I would like to lengthen 8cm.
I plan to lengthen with Dr Bagirov late in the year.
I would like to know if you think you could drive a car (automatic) at the moment (5 weeks after surgery) ?.
I guess you are able to get around on crutches at this point?.
Thanks Bro - keep it up, it will be worth it - no doubt :D.
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I think I could drive if I wanted.
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if i had a broken pin, would I definitely notice it???
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Not necessarily. If a pin breaks and doesn't have any room to move around you might not notice it.
Good thing that pin breakage is very unlikely.
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Good thing that pin breakage is very unlikely.
Didn't RGKEY manage to break his, though?
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Didn't RGKEY manage to break his, though?
not to be rude towards rgkey, but I think he managed to do it because of doing 9 cm
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not to be rude towards rgkey, but I think he managed to do it because of doing 9 cm
It was because he walked alot. He told me that he walked 5-8 hours everyday on Doctor advice. They do that alot in Russia.
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ty medium, I'm pretty sure I'm fine, just wanted to be sure.. my left leg feels weird, and my feet are abnormally dry and peeling, but honestly, its been pretty easy last few weeks
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Does Dr Bagirov always go out of Moscow? i intend to lengthen with him and stay at a low-budget hotel in Moscow instead of hospital.. so the cost is marginally higher than 6500 Euros. If he always goes away from Moscow, I will be unable to get him at his clinic...
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Crimsontide, get well soon! I'm currently 1.73 and wish to lengthen to 1.78-1.80, depending on what my body tells me.
We are in a similar situation, you are 1.74, right?
Anyway, was there substantial pain? I heard this guy was screaming the entire night after surgery at Dr barinov (Volgograd).
But you said that they gave epidural anesthesia even after operation, so minimal/moderate pain only for the first week?
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hey old forum ,
im ok, im not sure how tall i am, maybe 174, i think I've done over 4 cm, will be 5 soon.. i was definitely not screaming the night after, i was sedated and not in pain the first few days... dr bagirov is not at the clinic much tbh, you would be dealing with nurses and dr fahri twice a week
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Dear crimson, thanks for the reply. that was most reassuring. I can withstand pain but, if its 10/10 its pretty hard to stay on it for weeks u know Haha.
Anyway, does dr fahri know his stuff? So, If i stay in moscow for the lengthening, i can possibly see the dr every week?
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How are you doing ? hope fin are you going to be over 175? when you finish ? can you walk ?
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im ok... i just noticed.. in the last 2 days, i deem to have bent my nail slightly on the right leg, not broke, but bent outside rod... is this a major problem... when i turn the nut now, is it still lengthening or can it stop lengthening by virtue of being slightly bent?
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I think that as long as the nut will turn, it's still lengthening. But it might be lengthening unevenly so you should definitely get it checked out regardless.
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I agree with MDOW. Get it checked out ASAP. The health and alignment of your legs is not something worth taking chances with. If you end up with a single misaligned leg or a considerable length discrepancy, you'll be very sorry, somewhat crippled, unaesthetic, and possibly in pain for life unless you do expensive and extensive corrections. Don't take that chance. I wish you the very best of luck.
Tall
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ty.... i sent photos to dr, i dont have a length discrepancy now, and tend to worry excessively, but i think better safe than sorry... ill let everyone know what the dr says... ty
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here is a photo of it, i guess it looks somewhat normal
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Yeah, it doesn't look all that bad. You're probably fine.
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ty medium... i sentphotos to dr just to be sure
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seems like all is ok, just lengthening now... i have a question though regarding ballerine foot... i can put my left foot on the ground easily when sitting, and i can put my left heel down when standing, but seems like i have to strain a bit to try to stand up fully straight, i can't really do that now
im guessing i dont have ballerina foot?? i think people with ballerina foot can't put their heel down no matter what, but just wanted to be sure
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It's all a matter of degree. You probably have a mild case of ballerina foot.
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so even though my left heel touches the ground, i can still have mild ballerina foot???ughh, not happy about this, im still not sure i have it, but if i do, i hope it goes away soon....just to be sure, would like to get a few opinions on this.. i thought guys with ballerina could not put heel down, mine always goes down.....
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It's not a big deal; I had mild ballerina foot too. It goes away when you finish LL and start walking, which stretches out the tendons. Right now any stretches you do are mostly being negated by the lengthening.
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i think i might have slight ballerina in left foot... honestly , got me depressed a bit... im hoping it will be ok after i stop lengthening, i dont wanna have this issue forever
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Can we got a full leg picture please ?
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Don't worry, ballerina foot isn't a "forever" problem. It'll either go away on its own with enough standing and walking, or if it's really severe you can get surgery for it.
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ty medium... i think i definitely have some ballerina feet, though i can put heels on ground., just can't stand fully straight, but i think this hasd more to do with the frames on my legs... since this will go away,not too concerned... no pain really, might lengthen a cm more,then ill be done
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this is a photo of the big bolt wannabe has mentioned... it doesn't hurt btw, and the rest of the holes that have normal pins look great, but this is how the really big bolt looks like, below the ring... just one on each leg
wonder who else has or had a similar looking hole??? to be honest, in person, i dnt even think it looks this bad, but its quite a bit larger than the regular size pins
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Same with me, all of the pin sites look healthy with pretty much no damaged skin around them, with the exception of the large bolt on each leg where the "hole" is more exposed so to speak. I have a lot less skin tear on the big bolts than you have in that picture though(maybe you lengthened more?), but i still think it might leave a quite noticable scar when i remove the frames.
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ive lengthened faster,and around 2 cm more.... i guess it oohs not that abnormal though?????? its so big, ugh... we will definitely have scars, i might just get scar remove for the bolt sites only
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medium,,,,, should i be concerned by the tearing???? its probably just cosmetic, but stll will get scar treatment after i finish
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No, don't be too concerned. That tear looks really familiar and mine didn't cause any problems other than pain and scarring.
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T'y medium, you're right as usual. .. I sent photo to Dr and be said it's normal. ... In other news, my fiancee left me. ..
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Your fault or bitchy?
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She left you while lengthening? :o
That was a little fear I had, maybe my wife would leave me.
The worse part would be all the gossip about my LL.
Well, she didn't.
I can't imagine how you must feel right now.
Maybe you'll have better chance to find a new girl when you're taller.
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Hi I cant manage to contact Dr Bagirov.. Can someone update me his email? Emailed his assistant and him but no reply :(
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Oh my God she left you :o
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Maybe she will change her mind and come back, as i understand it this is not the first time she decided to leave you? at least it seemed that way from the email you sent my a while ago. Hope you can manage on your own in the meantime.
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I'll explain the fiancee situation in a later post. ... it isn't the first time this has happened either. .
I haven't been walking past few days, so just did now. .. I can not put my legs straight down at 90 degrees and have heels touch down ... on either foot.. I'm upset by this, as I guess have ballerina on both feet... I can have them touch the ground easily by putting my foot more forwards, but not straight down. ... not even close. ... It's like walking tiptoed. Anyone else go through this?
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I went through it and it's not a big deal. The only thing it means is you'll have to do some more walking before you'll get back to normal.
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ty medium... im not even done lengthening yet, so ill definitely be walking more then... i feel so stupid not walking past week... in just 1 week this happens... ty though
btw, did you have to walk tiptoed, or did you just really extend your legs while walking??? i feel almost more comfortable tiptoed
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I walked tiptoed and gradually pushed the heel down with each step. I agree it's more comfortable that way, and probably better for recovery too.
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can i pls have dr bagirov contact? he seems way cheaper than the doctor in volgograd
i emailed him a drbagirov.group@gmail.com five days ago =(
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really???? tiptoed better for recovery??? i do feel better doing it, just eel like i look funny doing it..
now the back of my ankle, i guess the tendon is sore as hello... I'm gonna not lengthen for a few days, then start again... think i need to rest a bit
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Well, you start tiptoed and then you push down on the heels when you can. It's better than putting the foot flat and trying to force the leg forward when you walk.
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Have an issue
My feet, only my feet, get incredibly dry around ankle and heel... doesn't happen anywhere else. .. anyone else experience this?
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Hey guys
I finally booked an appointment with Dr Bagirov!
The main pull factor was the affordable price.
Crimson, to what extent did you find it necessary to ask Dr Bagirov about the specific medical details?
Eg, nerve and fascia release, as some patients did?
I find that it is pointless? He may say one thing and do another. And besides, he should be more trained than us.
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Well, I think release would be helpful
Btw guys, need opinions.. I'm seriously considering getting lath by dr parihar, instead of keeping frames on... Not sure I can deal with having frames on much longer
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Well, I think release would be helpful
Btw guys, need opinions.. I'm seriously considering getting lath by dr parihar, instead of keeping frames on... Not sure I can deal with having frames on much longer
You should probably go for it imo, considering youve lengthened at least 6 cm, and at a faster rate than i did (i did the recommended .75 mm/day). consolidation is slowed down the faster you lengthen, and according to Bagirov usually you lose out time in the long run if you lengthen faster even though you get through the lengthening phase sooner.
Honestly if youre unlucky you could potentially have these frames on for more than a year since the surgery date.
There is a high risk of permanent knee pain, but Mediums knee problems doesnt seem to be that bad, so its probably worth the risk. Im already going crazy waiting for the consolidation to be over and i have 2-4 months left, depending on what the x-rays i will take at the end of july shows.
Also if you dont have anybody to help you after your girlfriend left, then it will end up being veeery lonely.
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wannabe, ty for the reply
i tend to agree with you... especially considering how long some other bagirov guys have been in frames...
i can totally relae to your crazy feeling... it's really bad, and nothing to do with physical pain... it's the helplessness and loneliness that is a killer
I'm actually going to lengthen a lil over 7 cm... i think id be n tees frames a long time... the knee discomfort seems to be mild for most people... i think the complications i could get wearing the frames another year,especially with no one to help me now, could be worse
I'll write about the situation with my ex very soon... she contributed to a very unhealthy lengthening
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wannabe, ty for the reply
i tend to agree with you... especially considering how long some other bagirov guys have been in frames...
i can totally relae to your crazy feeling... it's really bad, and nothing to do with physical pain... it's the helplessness and loneliness that is a killer
I'm actually going to lengthen a lil over 7 cm... i think id be n tees frames a long time... the knee discomfort seems to be mild for most people... i think the complications i could get wearing the frames another year,especially with no one to help me now, could be worse
I'll write about the situation with my ex very soon... she contributed to a very unhealthy lengthening
Yeah i dont have any pain even and can walk pretty well without aid, need to warm up every now and then though. And my family helps me. Still lonely as hell.
But having frames on for extended periods of time doesnt give you added complications it seems. I have never seen any proof of it. The damage from the frames is already done and over after the surgery. Now its like wearing leg pearcings, it doesnt damage the leg and doesnt restrict the range of motion either.
So the options are waiting a long ass time with no added complications/damage to the legs, or a high risk of knee pain from the nail insertion, and the added risks of 2 more surgeries (if you want to remove the nails eventually).
With that said i still think the nailing option sounds like the best idea in your case.
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I think I have ballerina in both feet... I can put both heels down when sitting, or when standing, but not with legs straight. .. I must extend my feet in front of me. .. so now when I walk, I am on my toes as that is the most comfortable position for me now when I walk. ... extending my legs out feels very awkward now. ... This seems to have happened quite fast. .. I stopped walking for a few days and it Happens .... Now I don't even want to walk. ... This is really depressing me. ... I don't know how long I can take having this condition. ... If surgery corrects it, I want to do it now. .. I hate not being able to stand straight and walk. .... depressed
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just took this photo... this i about how much i straighten leg out with heel still touching the ground..... i don't have to o anything special to do this, buti can't mak my leg more straight than this... walking might be worse
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One weird ilizarov :o
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Are you in moscow? Did you get follow-up?
All the best to your lengthening... :)
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Not in Russia. ... No follow up. .. I'm mad I stopped walking a week. .. I'm making plans to go see Dr parihar to remove frames in next 2 weeks
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Wanted to get everyone's opinion on getting gastric recession to cure the ballerina foot... the dr says its not necessary now, but d like to cure this right now
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Wanted to get everyone's opinion on getting gastric recession to cure the ballerina foot... the dr says its not necessary now, but d like to cure this right now
Im not really familiar with that surgery, but in all likelyhood it comes with some drawbacks..i think it would be better in the long run if you tried to stretch to get rid of the ballerina feet.
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probably right
the dr said it will definitely go away... just sucks to have
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old forum ,
i think if your doing tibias, and more than 5 cm, release should be done.... ballerina foot blows... it'll go away, as everyone says, but trust me, it sucks big time. it sucks so bad,I'm contemplating getting the surgery to fix it now... it's just an outpatient surgery, it's really not a huge deal, and heels will touch floor after getting it... the dr doesn't want me to do it, as he says stretching, walking, etc will eventually cure it... but its not just the fact i can't touch the floor with my heels while walking. the back of my ankle, where the tendon starts is really sore from stretching... i mean really sore.... hard to describe
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Hi Crimsontide,
I have been considering getting my surgery done with Dr. Bagirov and I have been following your diary as a guest from the start. You've been really detailed in describing your journey and I really appreciate you sharing your experience.
I am just going to go a bit off-topic here and ask, do you think it is a good idea to go for a 10 cm bilateral tibia lengthening using Dr. Bagirov's technique? Despite the lack of after-care, this seems like a highly affordable place which will not suck my savings dry. Also, it seems I can get some after-care with other doctors like Dr. Parihar?
Thanks in advance for replying!
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There is no way I recommend you lengthen 10 cm on your tibias. .. I've done 6.7 cm now, and it's a lot. .. 10 is too much. . You will likely recover one day, but not 100% and the recovery process will be extremely long.... trust me, this is very hard. ... Your life will not be happy while you lengthen... Think about max 6-8 cm. And That Is Pushing it... And for that length, do latn or lon... You will not want to be on frames for 2 years
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Not in Russia. ... No follow up. .. I'm mad I stopped walking a week. .. I'm making plans to go see Dr parihar to remove frames in next 2 weeks
crimsontide, how long have you been in frames now? You will be off frames in just 2 weeks' time? That's really fast. U're pretty tall already, like 180+ ;)
You have lengthened 6.7 cm and that is a lot!
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If I get frames removed it's because I'll have done latn. If I don't do latn , who knows how long I'll be in the frames
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Been reading your diary and in the last few pages the mood seems to have changed, you wanting to get latn half way through this have anything to do with your fiance leaving? YOu never told us why she left :( Sorry for bringing it up but why did she leave you? Sorry if I seem nosy, its one of the few things I think about pre LL. Did you do something to piss her off to leave or is it because of the frames, lengthening, rehab, etc? If Im out of line by asking this, just let me know.
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no problem asking
me wanting to get the frames off and going to see dr parihar, and possibly get the gastro release surgery has nothing to do with fiancee, and everything to do with the hassle of wearing frames, and the ballerina,etc..
our issues have more to do with her than the frames
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also, ill be very clear about this
'i want to be sure all is ok.... the only way i feel comfortable with a full recovery is if i get checked now,and get frames off now, so id only have to wait for bone consolidation.... if i keep frames on, id have to basically pray that all turns out ok and go multiple times to russia
i haven't had 1 followup yet with my russian dr..... i want to get checked and get frames off... I've pretty much made my mind up.... it shouldn't even cost a lot, as parihar won't be putting frames on me,etc... simply taking them off and inserting I'm nail in... petty basic
i have pretty much made my mind up..... i wish everyone in russia well, but i need to make sure I'm fine... i don't feel comfortable with frames on my leg for possibly over a year, thousands of miles away from my dr
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also, ill be very clear about this
'i want to be sure all is ok.... the only way i feel comfortable with a full recovery is if i get checked now,and get frames off now, so id only have to wait for bone consolidation.... if i keep frames on, id have to basically pray that all turns out ok and go multiple times to russia
i haven't had 1 followup yet with my russian dr..... i want to get checked and get frames off... I've pretty much made my mind up.... it shouldn't even cost a lot, as parihar won't be putting frames on me,etc... simply taking them off and inserting I'm nail in... petty basic
i have pretty much made my mind up..... i wish everyone in russia well, but i need to make sure I'm fine... i don't feel comfortable with frames on my leg for possibly over a year, thousands of miles away from my dr
I hope you realize that you are taking a bigger risk and making it less likely to reach full recovery by getting the internal nails, compared to just doing it the external way. You are supposed to return to Moscow for a check up when you are done lengthening, they control everything there and makes sure you are fine. I did that. After that check up the risks and complications are pretty much over, just a long waiting time.
As for the price, maybe he will make a discount but who knows, he might take full price except for the accommodation costs which you wont need.
But yeah you should go for the internals, but dont try to deny the fact that there will be some kind of tradeoff in recovery, it might not be enough to notice in your case though.
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i don't believe for one second that getting the nail means less chance of recovery... theres a chance for slight knee pain, but to say the frames don't have complications after one stops lengthening is false
the frames keep the foot and ankle pointed down,etc... along with the serious risks you face if you wear frames for say over 12 months... these are serious risks, not to mention little things, such as showering, etc
ill be walking faster without aids if i get the frames off.... the frames cause too many issues in many people... they've even made the areas around the sites extremely extremely dry... and its because of the frames
as far as them controlling everything, lets put everything out there.....
1- bagirov does not even do the surgery by himself, and people need to know this.... if people go to russia, its fine, but they need to know he will be doing 1 leg, and his assistant will be doing surgery on the other leg
2-we both know people who had surgery with him... you expect to have frames off in a few months, you might... but we both know a person who's had frames on 11 months and lengthened 4.5 cm.. this person also had complications when they did the "adjustment"
i also know of a few others, such as a girl that lengthened there, had frames removed, then her leg subsequently broke... she's had frames on about 2 years
i also know something else that i won't say here,only because i was told it in confidence... but it isn't good
bagirov option is ok i think, but there are many drawbacks to the way he runs things.... at this point, id rather py an extra 3 or 4 just to get the nail put in... for various reasons
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I can understand what you're going through in those frames, and wanting to get them off. It's impossible to live a normal life in them. The 4 and 1/2 months I spent in those things seemed interminable. I can only imagine how miserable I would've been if my frame removal had been the halfway point of my LL.
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Hi Crisomtide,
I think in your case you should to do LATN, because you will have to stay with the frames a lo of time. For 6,7 cm you will have to stay with that frames more than 1 year.
Cheers, paco
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i don't believe for one second that getting the nail means less chance of recovery... theres a chance for slight knee pain, but to say the frames don't have complications after one stops lengthening is false
the frames keep the foot and ankle pointed down,etc... along with the serious risks you face if you wear frames for say over 12 months... these are serious risks, not to mention little things, such as showering, etc
ill be walking faster without aids if i get the frames off.... the frames cause too many issues in many people... they've even made the areas around the sites extremely extremely dry... and its because of the frames
as far as them controlling everything, lets put everything out there.....
1- bagirov does not even do the surgery by himself, and people need to know this.... if people go to russia, its fine, but they need to know he will be doing 1 leg, and his assistant will be doing surgery on the other leg
2-we both know people who had surgery with him... you expect to have frames off in a few months, you might... but we both know a person who's had frames on 11 months and lengthened 4.5 cm.. this person also had complications when they did the "adjustment"
i also know of a few others, such as a girl that lengthened there, had frames removed, then her leg subsequently broke... she's had frames on about 2 years
i also know something else that i won't say here,only because i was told it in confidence... but it isn't good
bagirov option is ok i think, but there are many drawbacks to the way he runs things.... at this point, id rather py an extra 3 or 4 just to get the nail put in... for various reasons
Well its pretty much a fact that the nail insertion comes with added risks, you will damage the callus and slow it down further, also the fat storage that is inside the bone (it replaces the bone marrow after one grows up) will dissappear when you insert the rods, this might very well have long term negative implications , and the cut to insert it might give you permanent knee pains as mentioned.
You lengthened so much and so fast, and the nail insertion will slow down recovery further because of the increased damage to the legs. I seriously doubt you will walk normal earlier just because you get rid of the frames.
Also youre wrong, its not false to say the frames dont have complications after the surgery. The complications you get after the surgery are because of turning and lengthening, not the frame itself (i dont count infections as complications because they dont cause any permanent damage). When the lengthening process is done, they check the condition and makes sure everything is alright, after that the risks are pretty much over.
the frames dont restrict your movement, i have full range of motion now and can already walk close to normal after ive warmed up a little, the reason you cant move your feet and legs normally is partly because you are still lengthening and also because you lengthened faster than recommended, otherwise you wouldnt have gotten ballerina feet like i never did. There are no serious risks to having the frames on for a long time, theres no evidence to suggest it. Getting a nail insertion is a seriously invasive surgery which is a much bigger risk, and will have long term implications.
The guy you mentioned who had frames on for a long time and did 4.5 cm, i have talked extensively with him and he admitted to not following Bagirovs recommendations while lengthening, like the fact that he kept lengthening at the same pace despite getting a big infection among other things. despite his complications he doesnt think negatively of Bagirov, that says that he doesnt believe it was the doctors mistake.
I have also heard a few things about you btw, you havent exactly followed the doctors recommendation either..initially you didnt even keep track on how much you where lengthening each day. So i dont really think you have any position to talk negatively about the clinic when you dont do as recommended by the doctor.
The legitimate reason you should get the nail insertion is because of the long time you will have to hide your legs from public if you keep the frames on, and for overall comfort and practicality, not for recovery reasons which will be worse than sticking to external only.
External only isnt recommended when doing 6 cm or more, because of the long time you will be gone if you want to keep LL a secret.
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One of the surgeons told me that he thinks the advantage of LON over external only is overrated and that the recovery time from LON takes even longer than exfix. With exfix you'll be weight bearing a lot sooner, promoting healing. Being able to move around, even with frames on, will be mentally beneficial. He said a lot of people who get LON feel cheated because they think they'll be walking back to normal a lot sooner than it really takes. Add to it that you see your legs with no frames and you have the urge to walk on them yet your surgeon tells you its not strong enough yet even with the nail inside. Makes it more mentally frustrating.
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I think the same that wannabegiant, if you are doing 6cm or more is better LON, but for 5 or 5,5 cm is better only external.
This surgery should be more monitored, and the patients should be the lengthening period in the place of surgery under strict medical control and only when the lengthening period is finished and all is ok, you can go home.
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One of the surgeons told me that he thinks the advantage of LON over external only is overrated and that the recovery time from LON takes even longer than exfix. With exfix you'll be weight bearing a lot sooner, promoting healing. Being able to move around, even with frames on, will be mentally beneficial. He said a lot of people who get LON feel cheated because they think they'll be walking back to normal a lot sooner than it really takes. Add to it that you see your legs with no frames and you have the urge to walk on them yet your surgeon tells you its not strong enough yet even with the nail inside. Makes it more mentally frustrating.
Does that surgeon not use fully weight-bearing nails when he does LON? I could bear weight and walk the whole time I had my nails in.
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Does that surgeon not use fully weight-bearing nails when he does LON? I could bear weight and walk the whole time I had my nails in.
Because the frames have less components than exfix the weight bearing allowed while in them would be less, and when the frames come off you'd still need time to heal and would need to use a walker or something before you can go all over without one. So he doesn't think it's a dramatic enough difference from exfix to go through the more invasiveness and increased infection risk with LON. It's what one of the assistant surgeons said though. The primary surgeon said I could do either. All I know from him regarding his opinion is that he thinks exfix is safer and would be better for me in terms of healing between it and LON.
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Ughh so Dr Bagirov only does one leg? Who is the assistant and what are his/her credentials? I'd be pissed off if I just finished the surgery only to find this out, would definitely feel ripped off/cheated.
Im under the impression that its better to stay at the clinic whilst lengthening so they can monitor you therefore the more expensive alternative with Dr Barinov seems the better option in my opinion. It also seems like crimsontide's problems seem more like a mental issue of not knowing what will happen, slightly depressed, the break up doesnt help either than the LL itself. Perhaps you should wait a little before rushing into decisions half cked. But if he's already decided then all the best, good luck and I hope for you a safe recovery
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If I get frames removed it's because I'll have done latn. If I don't do latn , who knows how long I'll be in the frames
why do you need multiple visits to russia?
what if you stay in the frames, for whatever time needed to consoldiate, and then fly back to russia once only?
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Hi again Crimsontide, thanks for replying to my earlier post! After reading some more about complications etc. I think I will go for a max 7.5 cm increase. I just wanted to ask, with your 6+ cms of lengthening, how freely can you move? And is the avoidance of knee bending also required in the consolidation phase?
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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Crimson, have you even been using a foot holder to counteract ballerina foot?
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Crimson, have you even been using a foot holder to counteract ballerina foot?
good idea, but won't the foot holder impede muscular growth that is necessary for self-correction of this physiological condition?
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good idea, but won't the foot holder impede muscular growth that is necessary for self-correction of this physiological condition?
Pretty sure it doesnt impede anything since doctors recommend using a footholder to prevent ballerina.
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Pretty sure it doesnt impede anything since doctors recommend using a footholder to prevent ballerina.
I am somewhat medically knowledgeable, As wannabegiant says, it's recommended, how can you grow muscle if you cant even put your full foot to the floor to even come close to walking normally? Walking on your toes is only going to mainly stretch your Achilles tendon rather than helping the lower leg muscles to adapt, if crimson hasn't used a foot holder it seem like they are pretty much guaranteed to have ballerina past approx 5cm which would only make the road to recovery harder
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Hello crimsomtide,
I appreciate you putting your diary up for peolle like me to read and for taking that plunge and doing LL. I am undecided between Dr Barinov in volograd and Dr Bagirov.
I initially thought, what the hell Bagirov is cheaper so i should focus on him. However this is not the first time I have heard that he doesn't do much for you post op.
From your experience, would you still recommend him? I know after the surgery youre pretty vulnerable but I dont mind if hes strict or cold and uncomforting as long as the workout regiment and instructions are clear and useful and if theres an emergency it is handled.
You also stated that he does one leg while an assistant does the other. Maybe this is a dumb question, but if he is right there overseeing the surgery is it really that big of a deal?
About that thing that you wont mention because you were told in confidence. I appreciate your privacy and you have done more than enough by providing insight on your experience. But i have to ask if whatever that situatiin is, can you consider it when you make the recommendation if it applies.
This forum already states that the price of surgery is 6000 to 6500 euros and that an apt costs between 200 to 300 eur per month or 1000 a month to stay at the facility. In your diary it says you went home after the surger but would you happen to have an idea if the 200 to 300 eur is accurate because I checked apt listings and they seem more expensive than that.
If you have any idea what monthly expenses are can you list them. (Cost of food per day, internet access, etc.)
Thank you
I just want to let you know I will also ask tbe forum user wannabegiant these questions.
Thanks again
i don't believe for one second that getting the nail means less chance of recovery... theres a chance for slight knee pain, but to say the frames don't have complications after one stops lengthening is false
the frames keep the foot and ankle pointed down,etc... along with the serious risks you face if you wear frames for say over 12 months... these are serious risks, not to mention little things, such as showering, etc
ill be walking faster without aids if i get the frames off.... the frames cause too many issues in many people... they've even made the areas around the sites extremely extremely dry... and its because of the frames
as far as them controlling everything, lets put everything out there.....
1- bagirov does not even do the surgery by himself, and people need to know this.... if people go to russia, its fine, but they need to know he will be doing 1 leg, and his assistant will be doing surgery on the other leg
2-we both know people who had surgery with him... you expect to have frames off in a few months, you might... but we both know a person who's had frames on 11 months and lengthened 4.5 cm.. this person also had complications when they did the "adjustment"
i also know of a few others, such as a girl that lengthened there, had frames removed, then her leg subsequently broke... she's had frames on about 2 years
i also know something else that i won't say here,only because i was told it in confidence... but it isn't good
bagirov option is ok i think, but there are many drawbacks to the way he runs things.... at this point, id rather py an extra 3 or 4 just to get the nail put in... for various reasons
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Hey tx,etc
Regarding foot holder, i tried it, but couldn't keep it on 24 hours... now i don't wear one
i think I'm going to, at the very least get the gastric release so i can put heels on ground now... walking on my tiptoes makes me feel very nervous.. I'm just not stable. i realize my heel would eventually touch the ground, but at this point, I'm not even trying to walk, as i feel odd on my toes
I'm just about done lengthening
Regarding prices, no way you're going to get an apt in moscow for 300 euro... the facility charges you by the day, and its over 80 euro a day, so were talking about 2500 euro a month if you wanna just stay there, though they won't recommend it
to me, all the drs are similar in terms of the surgery. but there are big differences in post op treatment.. I would probably recommend him just because of his price, but i think my first choice would be beijing if i were going to recommend external
Pretty much everyone that gets this surgery will be ok eventually, but good post op care can make it much more pleasant..
i think I'm lengthening around 8 cm.... i wanted to get 3.5 inches, but i think its too much, 3 inches is good enough...
i have normal knee movement, some pin site pain when bending knees, and ballerina... my achilles is very sore but other than that, pretty normal... its just very tedious not being able to walk
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as of yesterday,I'm done lengthening.... i won't lengthen anymore
everything seems ok, except i have bad ballerina in both feet... i could walk fine otherwise, if i didn't have this ballerina... its such that i don't walk right, except very very little occasionally
its just not comfortable walking on my toes.... it puts too much pressure on my news if I'm not perfectly balanced.... i just don't feel comfortable
i think the only way ill be ab;e to walk a lot during consolidation is if i get a release..... I'm definitely going to have to get it.. iota only an outpatient surgery, and might weaken calf a bit, but i have no choice... i need to be able to put heels straight on the floor... its awful having it in both feet
that dr that said without a release, anything over 5 cm will give you serious ballerina, is correct
it really sucks, only thing thats wrong too... i can bend knees,etc... i can't raise my leg up straight now, but every things okay.... ballerina is my only issue but its a bg one for me...
also aching now, hopefully will go away in a few days now that I'm done lengthening
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i just wanted to reply to the comment on consolidating then going back to russia...
i don't think that would be very safe at all.... to not see a dr the entire time, and wait until consolidation... if i have any complications now, since i just stopped lengthening, it can be fixed now... if i wait 5 months lets say, who knows, might be a huge issue... thats why i would not choose that route
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Hi crisomtide,
Then, you are alone in your aparment. You say that you live in Morocco.
what is your routine one day? How much do you lengthening every day?
Than you, i will have my surgery with doctor salameh in september, and i want to prepare my day postoperatory
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don't have a routine now to be honest.. planning on fixing ballerina then walking during consolidation
didn't lengthen the same amount every day, but avg less than 1 mm a day, maybe .80 mm
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Than you for your answer and your involvement in the forum.
But you are alone or you have a caretaker or anybody that they help you.
your frames aren't so big, i think they are similar to salameh devices. you wear them under the trousers in the Street.
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Hello , what's a release? also don't you go out ? I think you should move to Casablanca there's many thing tp see Rabat is so boring
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Also , how long the process of LENGTHENING did it take you ? and how long do you estimate for the recovery ?
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i don't go out now really because I'm alone and i hate walking on my toes... though i could go in a chair
process took about 3 months... not sure how long will take to consolidate, I'm guessing 4 or 5
im not moroccan... i was only here because of my gf, who is now my ex, so ill lbe leaving here very soon
a release is basically a lengthening... allows you to extend your foot so heel can touch the ground
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btw, wanna thank kilokahn for help with something.... i think i know who I'm going to to now for the ta lengthening,etc
will update soon
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3month to lenght 8cm prettyfast :D I wish you get well
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a little less
not so fast, less than 1mm a day
gotta get this ballerina fixed next week.... really sore too
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migt have only lengthened a lil above or at 7 cm... don't think ill lengthen any more though
i have a new issue... my left knee seems ok, but today i notice a black liquid on my knee... looks exactly like oil or lubricant, as if its coming from the frame, not my knee.... i think its coming from the frame, its very odd though... my left knee feels ok
now here is my issue
i stopped pain meds, but right now am alone in morocco, because my gf left me... i can't really walk at all, because i can't put my heels on the floor.... i could walk if i could simply put heels on floor, but i can not.... walking on my toes could potentially hurt me..... i have to turn around 360 degrees to go to bathroom, and trust me, doing on your toes is very awkward... i feel pressure in my knees when i walk because of this
I'm extremely extremely depressed by all of this... extremely....... especially as i was fine until this issue... then i stop walking a week, and this problem.... now i can't walk really until it gets resolved
I'm extremely depressed right now by all this
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I'm sorry to hear about the situation you're in at the moment. Have you contacted any other LL doctor(s)? I read that you were interested in Dr.Parihar or Dr.Suhas for nailing and frame removal ? I honestly think you should get out of Morocco since you are alone and seek medical attention elsewhere besides Dr.Bagirov. He seems careless and maybe the complications is due to negligence from him.
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You need come back to your country, your home and stay in contact with people, your parents, some caretaker. You need stay with somebdy with you.
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where do you from?
Perhaps your parents should travel to Morocco and came back with them in a wheelchair.
In that condition you need that somebady take care of you.
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i plan on leaving in next few days..
spoke to 2 drs now.. one said i need the tendon release, and then everything should be ok.. i described to him the situation
its too awkward for me to straighten my foot just by walking, etc as it puts my knee is a very weird position... I'm committed to at the least getting the release done so i can put my heels on the ground... this is my major issue.... i can't wait for this to naturally resole itself, that could take a few months.... its too dangerous walking on toes... something goes wrong, can put too much pressure very easily on one leg
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Hey crimsomtide. Sucks that things arent going so well. I have been following your diary and truly hope you get well. As others have said you should not be alone now not just because of emotional aspects but because of the "you never know" problems that pop out of nowhere. Did the doctors you consult find out what the black stuff from your knee was?
Take care man i am considering Bagirov but my main concern was what happens when i go back home and there is a complication? I know theres really no right answer to that. If anything ask Bagirov to fly back to Russia and pay the thousand bucks to stay therr for a month and take care of the problem. I am thinking of having the surgery that paying for like 3 months until i get the hang of things and decrease the chances of complications.
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crimsontide how about just standing? Do you have problems doing just that? When I was going through my problem period in LL I didn't walk at all. In fact, don't remember walking more than occasionally throughout my whole LL experience, no matter how well or poorly I was doing.
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hi can stand i guess... its just that thongs like going to the bathroom are a huge hassle... also, I'm alone now, and the bed I'm in is very low, so was always hard to get up , but now more so
i just got a eply from drs asst.... to me, the black oil looks like motor oil, it can't be from my knee, has to be from frames I'm guessing, has to be some kind of oil leaking from it... i mean, it is completely black, looks like motor oil, or exactly like lubricant you would use for bearings
the tendon tension is making it hard to sleep... also right knee, feels like the nail is tearing a bit, so hurts, but the ankle issues from tendon are the worst
i guess ill be ok, just really feel i need to get a release for my tendons
medium, how much pt did you do??? i haven't done any lately tbh
i just used my arms to help lift leg, and i get get leg straight, while I'm on my back, so it seems like the ballerina is really the issue here
ill try to see either dr parihar or dr shah within a few days to hopefully get the ballerina fixed, and possibly take frames off
I'm tempted to lengthen more, but i think its best to stop now???
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I didn't do much PT. Beijing is not known for its PT, and I did less than most other patients there except the 2 or 3 who did none.
Standing for long periods of time, like an hour, will help with your problem. Just stand and bear weight, and the tendons will stretch on their own. Those lengthening/release surgeries make the tendons weaker forever and should be avoided if possible.
The situation you're in sucks, but it will get better if you have some patience and are willing to deal with the pain and inconvenience. LL was hard for me even with nurses and caretakers 'round the clock. It's going to be even harder for you, being alone, but you've got to stay strong and smart all the way through it.
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ill tell you what I'm thinking now... btw, I've done very little pt, if any, though i seem to be ok except for awful ballerina
being alone makes you think the worst... I'm just thinking ill never be able to walk again,etc...
i think palsy does the release all the time... might make my tendon weaker, but this sux too much
paco, my parents are both deceased, so I'm pretty much on my own now
ill eventually write about my ex gf when I'm feeling better hopefully
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and am i right i thinking i should stop lengthening??? I'm so tempted right now, but i won't lengthen
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I am sorry, Crisomtide.
You need stay with somebody during this process to do it more easy.
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Or hire a caretaker man. Being alone is just gonna stress you out and can impact your healing.
Also i dont kniw if oil leaking is a normal thing. Maybe i am misinformed or am misinterpreting the severity of the issue but something like that would make me want to be really sure it isnt an issue not just a phone diagnosis.
Sorry to sound so negative but this is your health man. If there is an issue it is important you know how to proceed. Who knows, maybe doing more PT is the cure, maybe doing PT aggravates the situation.
Like I said if im wrong sorry for the pessimism.
Also i stated i will pay to stay in hospital for like 3 months. I will do this for my health but also for my mind. I know i will be alone during the entire proccess because i dont want anyone i know to jnow about this.. So during the turning process i will still be fairly new to this experience and the surgery will be fresh meaning more chance of complication. Even if everything is going fine i will doubt everything. Just knowing that the hospital is right there will take a load of my mind. I might just rent apartment near moscow(but most likely in midweet usa where its really cheap) after i leave hospital. Think of it as buying peace of mind and decreasing the likelyhood of serious issues happening.
Also when in doubt just realize this. At some point before the surgery when you were preparing and planing and reesearching, you knew this was gonna be a tough road and that you might have issues and doubts. you went for it anyways and now youre experiencing it just like many others have and i will soon too. Just still try to make the situatiin more comfortable by having some sort of help.
Medium Drink of Water
Your saying in your experience you didnt do much PT and there were no significant drawbacks? Im still gonna do Pt but i still would like to know.
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Medium Drink of Water
Your saying in your experience you didnt do much PT and there were no significant drawbacks? Im still gonna do Pt but i still would like to know.
That's right. I planned to work out like crazy, but my knees were too stiff the whole time to do any PT. I just did standing and occasionally walked. It probably took me longer to recover fully, but I don't think the end result would've been any different if I'd done PT.
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id like to hear from anyone else that had ballerina...
not only can't i put jy heels on the floor, but trying to sleep now is rough... the back of my ankles,where tendons are, are very very sore
really really noticeable and annoying...... feeling it constantly in one ankle now
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here are 2 photos... 1 to show how much I've lengthened.... the ruler i have isn't right... i think I've done around 7 cm
the second pic is of my set... I'm paranoid my right foot is twisted, but i think its ok
i apologize for the long nails,etc....
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seems only one photo came out
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fight for it man, don't be lazy, no pain no gain
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fight for what??? lazy about what???
btw, , the photo where i show how much I've lengthened, theres a big nut thats at an angle.... now its always been like that, but last few days, if i bend my leg, the pain can be unreal... but its a pain due to possible infection or skin tearing... its really bad if i bend my knee... if i don't move, I'm ok.. ut it eels like that bolt is ripping apart the skin... idk why but its killing me now... never had this issue before.... i can't even see under it, unlike the other pin sites which ae easy to clean, this one , the frame is so close to the leg, its basically impossible to see anything
ill post a photo soon
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Crimson this doesnt look to good..
I think you could possibly have avoided most of these problems if you didnt lengthen so fast and such a high ammount, and not using footholders.
At this point there is no easy way out, either take the very slow and painful road to recovery, or make the release and nail insertion and dont expect to recover as well in the end.
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only lengthened around 7 cm, which in 3 months is not really that much
and the bolt was always at an angle..... i noticed it and said something the first day
if i get the release, i should be ok next week.... ill be ok as long as i can et my heels on the ground...
i agree that getting the release surgery is not the easy way out.... my tendon will be a lil weaker, but at this point, i gotta do it
medium, how long did everything take you again????
ill post a photo next
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here is a photo.... it looks normal i guess... but i dnt feel normal
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I think 7cm in 3 months is a lot. I spent 4 and 1/2 months lengthening to get to 7.5cm.
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can't you stand?, a little bit.
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you can your foot in warm salt wáter.
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i can stand and walk easily
i just want to be clear, i can move legs fine... i just have to be on my toes
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i think you stretching, with one towel you can do it.
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i would like to speak more but me english is not good. I am from spain.
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yes, stretching will do it... but i can barely walk to bathroom now... i can't wait that long... I'm gonna get the release.your english is ok
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I think it would be good if you check in with a Doctor for follow up. India could be a decent option and it's cheap to stay there. Gd luck and keep strong.
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when did you start to have ballerina foot?
Perhaps you need the reléase surgery.
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ty cavani and paco
im definitely going to india on monday to get the release done. it is ballerina 100%
paco, just started, but got bad quickly... i definitely need the release surgery
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Can we get a photo with you both of your legs ?
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theres photos here showing my foot
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I meany from a different perspective if it's possible
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Ah I see. I am actually going to this doctor but the complications dont sound nice.
I am thinking of two options
1) stay in russia for 21 days and fly back
or 2) stay in russia the entire lengthening process (3 months for 7 cm)
crimson, which do you think is better?
I had the impression that the first few weeks might be painful/tough, and I wanna get a hang of how to lengthen and all, so if I can see the doctor regularly it is better (once in 1-2 weeks)
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2° is best
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Some proportions/before-after photos now that you're done, for reference purposes, would be very much appreciated. You can blur the face and any identifying marks on you body to ensure anonymity.
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Some proportions/before-after photos now that you're done, for reference purposes, would be very much appreciated. You can blur the face and any identifying marks on you body to ensure anonymity.
dude he cant even put his feet down, he has ballerina. let him sort out his issues first?
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thank you old forum please
guys,ill post photos,i promise... but until i get this release, i can't even put my feet on the ground... to go to the bathroom, i have to get out of my chair, walk on my ass to the toilet, and then pull myself up
the one good thing I've learned is that i had to use my legs to push off, to get up off floor, and i shot up quickly, so legs are ok, i might even be able to walk without walker if i could just put feet on ground
...
im not in pain now, haven't lengthened in a few days,no infections... i actually think ill have a good outcome, but i have to cure the ballerina
ill be in india this week
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old forum please... i sat option 2
they really do not want you in the hospital there, and moscow is expensive..... i say 3 months, 7 cm
i definitely wouldn't do more than that, though i guess you could get away with 8 cm
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Hey Crimson, for 7cm how many more months do you think a patient has to stay in frames for? I know everybody is different but could you give an estimate?
Good luck in India and keep us posted on your progress
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mmm, i can't say for sure.... i might get rams removed now, and get a plate or nail in... but not sure
id say if i don't, I'm looking at 4 or 5 months more in the frames
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Good luck bro, wish you a safe travel ;D
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thank you.... i will be very happy once i get release, and ballerina fixed
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thank you.... i will be very happy once i get release, and ballerina fixed
did you tell dr bagirov that you will do more than 5 cm?
i wanna do 5-7 cm... shd i get a release during the main surgery??
anyway get well soon crimson !!
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No one should need a release surgery if they take the proper precautions
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yes, he knew
army... not true... and guys like paley do them all the time........ if you lengthen over 5 or 6 c with tibias, you will almost always get ballerina... some worse than others, but almost always.... nothing wrong with getting a release.... like i said,palsy does it all the time
ballerina if its bad can take a long time to fix....
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yes, he knew
army... not true... and guys like paley do them all the time........ if you lengthen over 5 or 6 c with tibias, you will almost always get ballerina... some worse than others, but almost always.... nothing wrong with getting a release.... like i said,palsy does it all the time
ballerina if its bad can take a long time to fix....
getting ballerina doesnt mean you need a release though, Rgkey managed to solve it through stretching and using footholders and did 9 cm. Im sure if you did stretches and used fottholders, as well as lengthening at a slower pace, your ballerina might have appeared much later and to a smaller degree, and thus it wouldnt take as much effort and time to get rid of it since some of the work would have already been done preemptively.
its always better to avoid these release surgeries if possible, but if done right it should not cause any significant problems long term.
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i could get it to go away by doing that... but just wanna be done with it
to be perfectly honest... i feel much better already... just not lengthening for a few days has made me feel much better... i had to use my legs to push off, and i shot up quickly... i might be able to walk now slowly without a walker,etc... but too nervous to try now... especially since I'm alone here
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Hey Crimsontide,
You've been really strong and brave through all this, hold on until you get through this! It doesn't seem like you're suffering from any acute infections at this point and the black greasy leak was probably just lubricating oil (nothing in the human body, not even congealed blood has that consistency and oiliness!).
As for being alone, I do not think that's a good idea either, but you can pull it off (seeing how far you've come on your own). Anyways make sure to at least have someone check up on you via phone once in a while? Also, how are you getting your pain meds and stuff?
Additionally, I think it is a good decision to stop lengthening at this point (at least wait until some of the debilitating symptoms subside!).
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ty converse
yes, it was definitely oil.... nothing in the body I've ever seen, even on medical shows, resembles what this looked like..
I'm tempted to lengthen a little more, but probably not.. most would be 7.5cm
I'm going to india today. ill get release, and might get frames removed... if i keep frames on, ill possibly lengthen a bit more
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Hey Crimson,
Have you decided the doctor that will perform the procedure or are you still considering the options in India?
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2 options... dr shah and dr parihar in mumbai... delhi is too far, so only considering these 2
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I reckon they are the best options in India.
All the best :)
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thank you
btw, i think i know the answer... but if i got frames removed,etc... before i got nail put in, wouldn't it be possible for dr to extend by 1 cm or so???
I've seen a few diaries where a dr did this, i think once to correct a leg so both were equal
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I would say don't try it if the doc thinks it's a bad idea! BTW when does your flight leave? I am considering Dr. Bagirov mainly due to his small frames, but I had a few questions which I think are better answered through a PM. Let me know if it's okay for me to PM you and if you'll have some time to answer them!
All the best for your trip to India!
[BTW I think Mumbai airport is larger than Delhi airport and there are more flights to Mumbai, but Delhi is located right in the heart of India (so distance should be less IMO)]
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don't think its a big deal if dr lengthens a cm..
you can pm me
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Thanks Crimsontide,
Just sent you a PM! :) All the best with your journey!
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so i go to airport on thursday.... was an issue with visa, so they wouldn't let me on plane
at this point, I'm seriously considering turkey if its comparable in price just to get a release and frames possibly removed... costs way too much in nyc
ugh, visa issues ruining my week... everything will turn out alright though
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still stuck..... waiting for visa, thinking of traveling to turkey, since i can get visa in a few minutes, but dr inan never replies to emails
everyone i know in morocco has been no help lately, so I'm stuck in morocco now, alone,with few options left... I'm in a hotel trying to figure out what to do
dr rozbruch in nyc is just too expensive for me... i think over 7000 just for frame removal... not sure about release, but I'm sure its a lot...
not too happy right now, and starting to hate morocco
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just contacted another dr, in a country where i do not need to get a visa... hopefully he replies
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It would have been free in Sweden.
Best of luck.
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ty
unfortunately.... health care in the states is awful.... high taxes, but unlike other nations, we see very little return from it
I'm just waiting on replies now.... i really do not wanna have to pay a few thousand $ just for a release
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Did you search for a dr in morocco ?
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Stay strong crimsontide. Things may not be going well now, but remember one thing about LL: it WILL end. You'll be back to living a normal life eventually, so stay positive through it all!
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was the board down for everyone???
ty medium... been rough, but i think ill get frames removed soon... just waiting on visa now
im not sure if i should be to able to walk unassisted now... but i can't
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I used a walker the whole time I had my frames on. Don't worry about being able to walk unassisted yet.
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ok, ty medium.... i guess its normal.... just hate life with these things on... what id do to be able to sleep on my side now, which is impossible with the frames on
ty again
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Hey, just wanted to say that sleeping on your side should be no problem at all with frames!
Just put a small pillow between your legs and lay on your side, just try it, it will work :)
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ahhhh, good idea.... ill try that... thank you... should have thought of that on my own
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just tried it.... but only have a large pillow... it sort of works, but makes my feet kind of fall to sleep... this pillow is pretty thick, so odd position
i just need these frames off
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so looks like ill be going to india once i get a visa... soon hopefully.... dr inan never replied to my messages, so I'm not going to chance it and fly to turkey... i think dr birkholtz would be too expensive, though not 100% sure... definitely getting a release, possibly getting plating... these frames are hard to deal with now...
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the visa to india is not a straightforward process. I guess they are worried of americans becoming illegal immigrants of india :D best of luck
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visa to india is simple
the issue is, the people that were supposed to help me here are taking their time... i need someone to get a photo taken, which took days, now to hand in application at embassy... and they just are taking way too long
I'm just sitting here in a hotel now, wasting time and money... this is really starting to piss me off...
this is definitely to alter how i feel about the arab world in general...... specifically the women, as it is not my first extremely negative interaction with them... i don't even wanna go into the other issues
ill be posting more once I'm healed, so people can see what i had to deal with here
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What's with the arab world ? don't hate because you dont feel well ...
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pretty tall,
its partially how i feel... the majority is my experience, and now i will provide some info
i had a moroccan girlfriend... i told her, its better if i go home to recover, but she insisted she'd help me during this time, so i acquiesced..
now, about a week in, i started seeing some major problems.... she is very very controlling and jealous, so after a few days, she said she was leaving
well, lots of arguing, etc, she stayed.. i won't go into every detail, but she broke my computer, after i told her i didn't want her checking on my personal accounts....facebook,etc... she had done once before and deleted half my friends list
she insisted on monitoring everything i do... so if i told her its too much, I'm recovering with 2 broken legs, not cheating.... she would literally start hitting me in the face... hard.... she even did this while i was using the walker
she then punched me in my nose, which caused it to bleed profusely...luckily it did not break
after all this, she simply left me alone... and told me no one here would help me, that she told all her friends not to help me... and they did not... a few them blocked me when i tried to contact them asking for assistance...i all because she told them not to.... had previously tried to befriend someone, but she was not having it.... only she could have access to me.
1 person eventually started to try to help, but lately hasn't been responding .
When she found out i was being helped, she flipped out and asked me why i had gotten rid of her for another person.... so i explained she left me.... and that the person helping was a man... i then asked her for assistance, and she gave me conditions, she said it was her giving me a last chance.... what i did wrong, i have no idea
she stated that i had to stop talking to the person helping me, and then she might see me....
i subsequently informed her i had did just that... and she told me it was too late, i hadn't obeyed her fast enough... she has since ignored me
i could go on about this, but you get the general idea
IT HAS BEEN A DISASTER AND I AM NOT EXAGGERATING THIS STORY IN ANY WAY OR LEAVING THINGS OUT...
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That sounds close to unbelievable, how did you end up with such a psycho bitch?
Hope you will pull through wherever you end up though. You should not waste any time thinking about that horrible ex of yours.
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ty wannabe
the story is unbelievable.... but true... i told her before i came, i have 2 broken legs now, and i won't be much fun to be around.... i really tried to get that in her head, but she insisted
ill admit I'm still upset by her, i cared for her... even today i attempted to say hi, and and that you don't treat people that u love in this way
the reply i got back was "f**k YOU,,who i said i loved you loll.... please don't contact me anymore, have some dignity... ciao"
but wannabe, you're right.... time to forget her.... just upsets me still a little...
i met her online actually.... i know, turned out to be a bAd idea
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Ok she obliviously a BITCH but don't talk in general she told her friends not to help you so they did , I think that's normal even if they are wrong, But let me tell you this there is alot of girls out there hoping to find a non-moroccan bf because they think mroccans bf are not enough open-minded or don't treat girls right like Us or europ do (which is is wrong but that's a group of people not all ), I advice you to not talk to that bitch anymore or to make here even more jealous , let here know that you found another gilr so she can taste her own medicine. and belive me rabat is as not a good city try Casablanca.
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Wow. Totally crazy.
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If u are from the west or live in the West Europe or the states do not date any girl from a third world country online , they just want the green card that's it anything else is blah blah
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she wasnt doing it for green card... her father has a lot of money actually
she just is really sick in the head... i told her she should see a dr... i wasnt joking or trying to be mean, but all she did was insult me
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just for an update
been here a week waiting for a so called friend to take 2 photos for visa.... he comes yesterday with someone, takes photos.... I give them 100 dirhams... and today, i call him all day..... nothing... can not get a hold of him
so at this point, I'm left with very limited options...... depressed.....
ill try to update soon
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i'm ready to blow my brains out
btw, just as a heads up to anyone thinking of mitkovic.... don't even try.... he won't contact you...
i just heard that dr bagirov wants to see me as soon as possible, and is very concerned, i think because he heard i want the release done... he is very against it
but honestly, i can not put my heels on the ground ... so i am in bedd all day basically.... and wearing these frames 5 or 6 more months.. not sure i can handle that either.... the visa process for me now to get to russia would be very complicated.... I'm an american in morocco... and currently have no helpers, so to do anything is a huge chore
i don't know what I'm gonna do, i feel very depressed......... if i had the funds for everything, id just fly to south africa, but i don't.... could only get release there, nothing else.
just very depressed..... feel alone, no one to help...... I'm in a hotel room all day, eating once a day....
just feel that the people/person that was supposed to be there for me deserted me.... awful feeling
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This is awful...im really concerned now, do you not have anybody, no family who can help you?? This could end up really dangerous being in such a condition with limited funds in a country like Morocco..
You need to find a way to get out of there, focus on getting home to America first so you can be around some of your friends or family before thinking about doing a release, you can eventually do that later if you really want it.
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i need to fix ballerina first.... i have some funds but not enough for removal,etc in certain countries...
i could get a plane to america now, but wouldn't be much help... i need to get x trays, see a specialist,etc..,. very expensive in new york
i have no parents, no siblings... i have a few uncles and aunts.... no one will help though... its just how my family is... they are all very old too
i told my uncle my situation, he said to me that i'll get through it.... so that was the end of it
my other problem is i would have to find a place to stay...dont have family that would take me in, i had 1 friend offer, but he's going to be living in a basement.... that would be impossible for me... i wouldn't be able to ever go out....
my feet also look awful... i mean just dirty, extremely dry, etc... not sure why my feet are so dry and scaly... i know why they are dirty.... i don't have anyone to help me bathe, so I'm dirty, and smell badly,I'm sure
i have to figure something out quickly,can't take too much more
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i need to fix ballerina first.... i have some funds but not enough for removal,etc in certain countries...
i could get a plane to america now, but wouldn't be much help... i need to get x trays, see a specialist,etc..,. very expensive in new york
i have no parents, no siblings... i have a few uncles and aunts.... no one will help though... its just how my family is... they are all very old too
i told my uncle my situation, he said to me that i'll get through it.... so that was the end of it
my other problem is i would have to find a place to stay...dont have family that would take me in, i had 1 friend offer, but he's going to be living in a basement.... that would be impossible for me... i wouldn't be able to ever go out....
my feet also look awful... i mean just dirty, extremely dry, etc... not sure why my feet are so dry and scaly... i know why they are dirty.... i don't have anyone to help me bathe, so I'm dirty, and smell badly,I'm sure
i have to figure something out quickly,can't take too much more
My feet get dry to and dead skin fall off, well it used to happen but it has become less of a problem now. Its partly because of the reduced blood circulation (like when you mentioned your feet swelling up occassionally) as well as not showering the legs and feet. Its normal.
I dont really know what you should do, in America the system wont take care of you like they would in Sweden.. But at least if you are home you will be more safe, and even if you dont get release it will eventually dissappear. You will save money living with your friend compared to a motel in another country
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yes, i was thinking it's less circulation
ty wannabe
i could go to america now, but i can't take having ballerina so long, etc... and even frames now
i want frames off mainly so ill be clean,etc... i won't have caretakers, so washing myself is very difficult.. but if i didn't have frames, i could just lay in a bathtub.. which i can't do with the frames on
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yes, i was thinking it's less circulation
ty wannabe
i could go to america now, but i can't take having ballerina so long, etc... and even frames now
i want frames off mainly so ill be clean,etc... i won't have caretakers, so washing myself is very difficult.. but if i didn't have frames, i could just lay in a bathtub.. which i can't do with the frames on
Okey but how will you fix the Visa if your "friends" there abandoned you? if they dont get in touch soon you should reconsider..
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Are you really sure you need this release surgery, even though Dr. Bagirov says you don't? How much standing and weight-bearing are you doing each day?
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wannabe, i agree... if i don't hear something by end of tomorrow, i have to make other plans
medium, none in a week or so... except getting in and out of chair... the hotel rom I'm in is very very difficult to navigate.... not made for someone in my condition... if i were walking, it might go away... but that's the thing... i can't walk upright, both my heels will not touch the ground, so i don't like to walk... its very awkward to walk high on my toes... back of my ankle,etc are very sore, because they are tight
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i can bend knees, etc... not in pain really
i just tried to lift my leg without using my hands... what i mean is while lying down, lift my leg up high, and i can do it without some help from my arms
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Damn, I wish I knew someone in Morocco who could help you out. If you can't take care of the visa now, maybe you can go to the states first and your friend there can help you? If you're in such bad shape maybe it would be beneficial to see Dr Shah. Were you able to talk to him by email?
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i spoke to dr shah,,... but he hasn't replied in last few days..... you kinda gave me a price guess, and dr shah was going to be the guy i went to
i went to airport on friday... i had booked a flight to mumbai, and they told me visa wasn't good... so my plan was to get it this week... but the people here that are supposed to help are not helping
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Don't worry about walking just yet. Try standing for 20 minutes at a time for now.
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ty medium, i can do that... i mean, i could walk ok, if not for ballerina, its an issue with the bones... btw, could you raise your legs easily by this time???
also, i wouldn't do this normally, but i feel have no choice, i contacted my ex girlfriend, the one that left me, just because I'm in a desperate situation
ill paste the convo, and just block the names.... me is me of course and her is her
" me-so you won't help me at all now
12 minutes ago
her-sorry i cant. i will not be in rabat
call ur friend
me-why won't u be in rabat.... i need you now
her- what u need
?
me-help... i know you're in rabat, not tangiers
i need to get visa, have someone bring application,and clean clothes
her-im in rabat now and i will not go to tangiers
u can talk to the guys in the reception
they can clean ur clothes
and for the things abt visa u can ask jamel
or someone else
i dont wanna see u
sorry
me-i know, u will be in rabat
so no reason u can't help
her-i cant help im not obliged
me-really..... i thought u cared about me
her-i dont
me-really?
her-yes
leave me alone
me-so you don't care what happens to me???
her -stop bothering me
me-answer me
her-i dont give a s**t"
I guess i should just give up asking her to help?????
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You're 3 months in, right? I was having a lot of trouble raising my legs when I was 3 months into my LL. I tied gauze to the frames and lifted them with my arms when I needed to move them.
If you can stand, then stand. Do it for 20 minutes, then take a 20 minute break and repeat. Stand for longer periods of time if you can. Do you have anything better to do right now than stretch your Achilles naturally and avoid surgery? No? I didn't think so. Stay strong, stay motivated, and fight through it. We'll be here to offer moral support and lend a sympathetic ear when you're feeling down, better than that ex-girlfriend of yours. :o
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ty medium... yes little more than 3 months in.... ty for the words...
i guess ill be ok... just reallyyyyy depressed.... hopefully better news tomorrow
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mmm, so the person i gave 100 to... the one that didn't answer all day... but his mother and brother did...
he sends me a message on fb
"hey xxxxxx, sorry i coudln't come we toke my grand mother to the hospital and i didn't take my phone with me i left it in home i can't come tomorrow too i must stay with here in hospital i'll come maybe saturday"
now, his mother and brother answered, so i don't know who we is.... and he was tagged in a photo last night... where he appears to be on a beach.....
Do i make other arrangements,??? i already sent him an angry message, as i just couldn't hold it in.... I've been here a week.... if he can't go drop off allocation today, it's not open on the weekend of course, so earliest ossible date the visa process would start is monday... the earliest
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this is turning out to be worse and worse each day...... no idea what to do now...
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that's really bad ...hope you find a way out of this
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yes.... very disappointed, most of all in myself..... i made a very bad decision trusting someone i hardly knew... but at this point, ill beat myself up over it after i get better
i am very surprised though that this guy helping me us acting like this.... i just find it hard to believe.... he has a brother and mother, etc.... they are all home, as i call... but he has to stay at hospital for 3 or more days???? i could be wrong, i just find it hard to believe, especially with him being tagged in a photo last night on a beach with friends, celebrating the breaking of his fast......
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ty medium, i can do that... i mean, i could walk ok, if not for ballerina, its an issue with the bones... btw, could you raise your legs easily by this time???
also, i wouldn't do this normally, but i feel have no choice, i contacted my ex girlfriend, the one that left me, just because I'm in a desperate situation
ill paste the convo, and just block the names.... me is me of course and her is her
" me-so you won't help me at all now
12 minutes ago
her-sorry i cant. i will not be in rabat
call ur friend
me-why won't u be in rabat.... i need you now
her- what u need
?
me-help... i know you're in rabat, not tangiers
i need to get visa, have someone bring application,and clean clothes
her-im in rabat now and i will not go to tangiers
u can talk to the guys in the reception
they can clean ur clothes
and for the things abt visa u can ask jamel
or someone else
i dont wanna see u
sorry
me-i know, u will be in rabat
so no reason u can't help
her-i cant help im not obliged
me-really..... i thought u cared about me
her-i dont
me-really?
her-yes
leave me alone
me-so you don't care what happens to me???
her -stop bothering me
me-answer me
her-i dont give a s**t"
I guess i should just give up asking her to help?????
what a lovely b**ch
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yes...
so at this point, I'm not sure what to do.... the person that was supposed to help didn't reply today.... and i have to get out of this hotel soon... just not healthy and wasting money
the best option would be release, frame removal, and plating, but my only affordable option for that now is in india... and the person that was supposed to help me get visa has not done it so far...
i could just get a release, but i have to be back in ny soon, and other than maybe shopping, i'll be taking care of myself, so having frames on, potential complications, cleaning myself, changing clothes,etc is made infinitely more difficult with frames on
Ugh.... anyway, that's my story... I apologize for all the negativity... .. i promise once these frames ae off, etc and I'm walking again, and taller, i'll be more positive
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Wish you all the best.
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Have you tried contacting ur embassy? I am sure they could be helpful somehow?
Consulate General of the United States
8, Bd Moulay Youssef
Casablanca
Telephone:
(212) 522-26-45-50
After-hours American citizen emergencies only: (212) 661-13-19-39
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Ty..
I'm not sure what I would tell them. .. I feel strange saying I got my legs lengthened, and now need assistance
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Tell them the truth, nothing wrong with that!
Helping an American in Morocco is pretty much why they are there. Between embassies, they even may be able to fast track your visa.
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g man... thats not a bad idea actually... they probably could fast track my visa, or have someone help me with it.... i don't think i should call the emergency line, but on monday i will call them
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Dunno man, your status seems like an emergency! Maybe they'll send a cute intern to help you around meanwhile! ;D
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you think so??? I'm not going to die or anything in the next few days...
i feel i wouldn't be taken seriously... my issue is definitely large, but i can survive until monday... id be surprised if they sent anyone to me... and again, I'm going to cringe when i explain that I'm here because of a girl, and she left me..... i was stupid
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Call the embassy this is one of the reason they are there ! To help us !
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you think so??? I'm not going to die or anything in the next few days...
i feel i wouldn't be taken seriously... my issue is definitely large, but i can survive until monday... id be surprised if they sent anyone to me... and again, I'm going to cringe when i explain that I'm here because of a girl, and she left me..... i was stupid
just tell them the truth and they will help u I am sure about that
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Sup crimsomtide.
Sucks that you are going through all that with your ex and health issues. If my input means anything to you i say just go to the embassy and tell them whats the deal. You dont have to state it is because of a girl. Theres many scenarios of why you could be stranded(poor planing, maybe a relative was helping you aout and they got their own issues). But your definetly gonna have to tell them everything else. It will probably be very embarrasing. But think of all the youve had to endure. You dont want to prolong that or put all your progress at risk just because it might be embarrasing to tell some people you will never see again and who probably has dealt with other cases that can be considered out of the ordinary.
That being said i will be doing LL soon so i am trying to learn from your experience and not repeat what i percieve to be mistakes on your part. Even then i know theres going to be issues that i didnt account for and i hope i can apply the advice everyone else and I have given you.
Take care man. Just know youll be looking back to these days as a memory soon.
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T'y guys...
If you're sure they'll help, I'm gonna call
Yes, I'll be okay eventually in a few months I guess, but I don't want the months to be torture. . I'll have to call
My only issue is the ballerina. .. my knees can bend,etc and I was walking fine before when I didn't have ballerina..
I might wait until Monday to call though
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Hey there, just wanted to say that ballerina can be easily solved with a lot of physio, just try to do this exercise (http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/calf-stretch) as good as you can.
It will hurt like hell, but it's better than having ballerina.
When you will see blood coming out of your pins, you will know that you've been doing enough physio :)
It will take you maybe 2-3 weeks to resolve it, if you stretch for 1 hour a day.
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13, mine is pretty bad
i can put my heels on the floor, but when my legs are bent 90 degrees, maybe 4 cm of ballerina... i don't think physic by itself is gonna cure this in a few weeks, maybe combo of release and some physio... I'm gonna try the exercise.. I'm been nervous of pin pain,bleeding but i guess its normal if i get it
i notice my feet look atrocious though.... extremely dry, not swollen, but darker... partly due to not cleaning, but very scaly... dr franz said though its pretty normal
my pinky toes look clubbed almost now that i look, but i think i just never really paid attention to my toes before, so i think its ok
i can easily stand now, except not having walked for 2 weeks, my calves got very tight, so walking straight is ok, but turning, no way.... I'm 4 cm on my toes and achilles is very tight..... if i can get a discount with dr franz, I'm heading to pretoria, 100%%%%%
if not, I'm stuck here for a bit, unless the my embassy can somehow fast track my visa to india....
the guy who was supposed to help still hasn't come, so this qualifies as an emergency
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If you feet are dry, just wash them more often and use some lotion, it's nothing to worry about :)
And don't give up because you have ballerina, even if it's really bad. I had horrible ballerina and got rid of it with brutal physio, you don't need a surgery for that, you need will and some time.
Don't do just "some physio", try 1+ hour of streching a day for 2 weeks and you will se A LOT of progression. I don't think you want or even can handle another operation, because you seem really tired and depressed.
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133
i didn't realize you were speaking from experience
so you had it in both feet too??? did you feel the ams when you walked??? turning being very difficult??? and how are you walking now?
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I only had problems with my right leg, because I didnt exercised as much as with my left one, because it hurt. But when I realized i had terrible ballerina, I streched even though I had horrible pain.
Now I'm 5 months post OP and can walk unaided (I lengthented 6cm external tibia). But only because i streched like a maniac! Don't be lazy :)
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do you still have frames on??? 5 months post op unaided sounds good
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I still have the frames on, it sucks a bit, but time will pass :)
Also internal nails and plates suck d***, you can get permanent knee pain from them. Just keep your head up, I've been through similiar things as you and I can tell you this is only temporary :)
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123
i dont think theres knee pain with plating, pretty sure about this... i really appreciate hearing from you though
i tend to think of worst case scenarios, such as never walking again, though i know thats maybe a .5 % possibility.... just sucks... i will definitely get the release to cure this ballerina though... i don't see a downside to it... pretty much all of the top drs do it routinely when working with tobias, and none i have contacted seem to be concerned if i get it
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The thing with plating though from what i understand after reading a few pubmed studies, is that you wont be able to walk right away on your legs without the frames if you get plates right now. I read a study which claimed plating reduced the time in frames on average (these test patients had lengthened slightly over 3 cm only) from ca 6 months in frames external only, to 4.5 months in frames with plating. The standard plates arent strong enough to carry the body weight on their own until you get a certain ammount of callus formation.
and since you did around 7 cm, i still think you would need the frames for maybe 3 more months at least if you got plating now. Its still a good idea to get plates for you considering that doctors say 1.5-2 months per cm is average for exfix. And since you havent been walking much and not eating well either as well as lengthening at a fast pace, i think its more likely to heal at ca 2 months/cm. that would mean that you have ca 11 months left in frames if you did exfix only. At least according to the math, maybe it the healing speeds up exponentially as you get more mobile, but it would still be a long ass time in frames without plates.
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mmm, i don't think... i know the study you're referring to... but I'm pretty sure i can get plating now
i definitely don't think it would be 2 months per cm... I'm not really concerned about bone growth, as i heal well... it's this ballerina
but i tend to agree with you.... i do not like these frames, they are really heavy, even though they are smaller.. i guess that's a good thing, as i think a jeep could run over my leg and this frame would not break, it's really strong... but it is heavy, and my right leg especially, when i bend my leg, it just feels so tight from the pins and bolts, like its trading, pulling, pushing,,,etc... i noticed a rod was slightly bent... I'm sure it was from the time i was on the walker, and that nutty girl hit me, and i had to move quickly..
though i think inside it is straight... the middle rod was always at an angle
basically... i can lift my legs up at the knee if sitting, can easily stand and walk with walker,etc if no ballerina... I'm not sure i could stand without walker... since i can't put my heels on the ground,i lose so much push off force... can't get nearly the same amount of force trying to stand up on your toes.... i might have lengthened 7.5, not sure, was thinking of 8.... in the end, it won't matter, as long as you don't do an insane amount, and to me, this is my only time to get taller, so i might as well max it out....... i will never get femurs done... this is it for me...
life is too short to do this again
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mmm, i don't think... i know the study you're referring to... but I'm pretty sure i can get plating now
i definitely don't think it would be 2 months per cm... I'm not really concerned about bone growth, as i heal well... it's this ballerina
but i tend to agree with you.... i do not like these frames, they are really heavy, even though they are smaller.. i guess that's a good thing, as i think a jeep could run over my leg and this frame would not break, it's really strong... but it is heavy, and my right leg especially, when i bend my leg, it just feels so tight from the pins and bolts, like its trading, pulling, pushing,,,etc... i noticed a rod was slightly bent... I'm sure it was from the time i was on the walker, and that nutty girl hit me, and i had to move quickly..
though i think inside it is straight... the middle rod was always at an angle
basically... i can lift my legs up at the knee if sitting, can easily stand and walk with walker,etc if no ballerina... I'm not sure i could stand without walker... since i can't put my heels on the ground,i lose so much push off force... can't get nearly the same amount of force trying to stand up on your toes.... i might have lengthened 7.5, not sure, was thinking of 8.... in the end, it won't matter, as long as you don't do an insane amount, and to me, this is my only time to get taller, so i might as well max it out....... i will never get femurs done... this is it for me...
life is too short to do this again
Yeah you can get plating now like i already mentioned but im pretty sure you wouldnt be able to put full weight on your legs without frames at this point even with plates. As plating only reduces times in frames, it doesnt remove consolidation phase. I think you would need to wait a few months before you can remove the frames regardless, im just saying this so you wont get dissappointed later.
And consider how bad it went for the other patient we both have been into contact with, the main reason he didnt heal fast at all was because of ballerina in one of his feet and the lack of walking. Unless you are one of those wolverine type healers like Rgkey, id say 2 months/cm seems likely considering your situation. And even if it was 1.5 months/per cm. 7 cm would be 10.5 months minus the 3 you have already waited, so 7.5 months left if your healing is on the faster side. (plating can reduce it further but you still need to wait some months i think)
just trying to be realistic here.
Also, when you reach lengthening at ammounts of 7.5 or more, then every bit of difference can mean a lot in terms of how well you will be able to recover. You are already past the optimal and safe lengthening limit though so i can understand going for another 0.5.
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i think our friend who hasn't healed well is a very unique case... he lengthened only 4.,5 cm and has had frames on 11 months..... might end up being more... i think its his bad luck unfortunately... not any ballerina that caused him these issues... I'm also going to get rid of the ballerina this week... he never considered surgery and has had this issue a year now basically
at this point, here is how i think of it... ill be able to walk fine again.... i mean i don't really see anyone that does not have a normal goat after they recover, even guys doing 7-9 cm, and i think medium saw people do more....... and all can walk okay... so wanna get the most out of it but get release and plating done very soon... i don't think id want nailing, as guys seems to have knee issues with it, though idk
if i have plating and frames on at the same time, i should be able to walk easily I'm guessing, as my legs would be very strong.... would have frames and plating to help support me... though maybe I'm wrong
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i think our friend who hasn't healed well is a very unique case... he lengthened only 4.,5 cm and has had frames on 11 months..... might end up being more... i think its his bad luck unfortunately... not any ballerina that caused him these issues... I'm also going to get rid of the ballerina this week... he never considered surgery and has had this issue a year now basically
at this point, here is how i think of it... ill be able to walk fine again.... i mean i don't really see anyone that does not have a normal goat after they recover, even guys doing 7-9 cm, and i think medium saw people do more....... and all can walk okay... so wanna get the most out of it but get release and plating done very soon... i don't think id want nailing, as guys seems to have knee issues with it, though idk
if i have plating and frames on at the same time, i should be able to walk easily I'm guessing, as my legs would be very strong.... would have frames and plating to help support me... though maybe I'm wrong
Its unique, but he clearly states that he thinks the majority of problems is because of his one leg where he has ballerina, and his doctor seems to think so to because he was allowed to remove one of the frames already, the one on his leg without ballerina, but he chose to wait because it would make it very difficult to walk since he needs to put most weight on his framed leg if he removes one, and that framed leg has ballerina.
Also regardless if he is a special case, bone regeneration of 2 months/cm is not unique, it is within the average time requirement.
The release will be good for that reason though, but at the same time it will weaken your tendons permanently.
Yeah pretty much all patients are able to walk again after surgery, but most patients want to be able to do more than just walk, they want to be as close athletically and in terms of mobility as they where pre LL. And its much more likely to reach that the smaller the ammount you lengthen. Also lengthening at a faster speed can potentially also be detrimental to recovery.
With the plates, it will reduce the time in frames, but the plates are not as strong as the nails, so you either need the frames for some more months, or walk in crutches for a long time after frame removal.
Btw, technically if you can walk now if it wasnt for the ballerina, then the frames will be able to hold your weight regardless if you have plates or not. So if you got a release but no plating you would be able to walk just as well. But the plating would reduce the time in frames.
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yes i can walk with the frames easily, i just don't now because i can walk straight only, since I'm on my toes... turning the walker on my toes just is too awkward, and puts pressure on knees, etc... bt i can easily get up with walker, walk, etc....no pain... except for the discomfort of the ballerina
as far as athletic recovery... everyone seems to eventually recover the same amount... not referring to those that have done 15 or more cm, etc.. but truthfully, nothing I've seen says to me suggests those that lengthened more ended up worse off... they took longer to recover, but in the end, i don't see much difference
medium, sweden, rgkey, etc... all these guys seem to be able to pretty much do the same things as before....
i like to lift weights, but here is the truth... i have not ran in years.. i mean maybe i jog a few seconds once or twice a year....so i doubt id even notice a difference in how i run, as i simply do not run....
about tendon being weakened permanently.... i guess maybe in theory, but none of the drs i've spoken has even brought it up, or said even that it's a bad idea... and I've spoken to some of the best..... so i don't think it is really an issue....
i want the frames off because the frames themselves contribute to to ballerina, are the reason my feet are so dry now,and they are insanely uncomfortable...... i mean really bad..... and the tearing, and pressure from the pins is no fun either... these frames must weigh 8-10 kilos per leg....maybe more.....
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yes i can walk with the frames easily, i just don't now because i can walk straight only, since I'm on my toes... turning the walker on my toes just is too awkward, and puts pressure on knees, etc... bt i can easily get up with walker, walk, etc....no pain... except for the discomfort of the ballerina
as far as athletic recovery... everyone seems to eventually recover the same amount... not referring to those that have done 15 or more cm, etc.. but truthfully, nothing I've seen says to me suggests those that lengthened more ended up worse off... they took longer to recover, but in the end, i don't see much difference
medium, sweden, rgkey, etc... all these guys seem to be able to pretty much do the same things as before....
i like to lift weights, but here is the truth... i have not ran in years.. i mean maybe i jog a few seconds once or twice a year....so i doubt id even notice a difference in how i run, as i simply do not run....
about tendon being weakened permanently.... i guess maybe in theory, but none of the drs i've spoken has even brought it up, or said even that it's a bad idea... and I've spoken to some of the best..... so i don't think it is really an issue....
i want the frames off because the frames themselves contribute to to ballerina, are the reason my feet are so dry now,and they are insanely uncomfortable...... i mean really bad..... and the tearing, and pressure from the pins is no fun either... these frames must weigh 8-10 kilos per leg....maybe more.....
Youre definitely wrong about the athletic recovery, everybody does not recover the same ammount. It varies a lot between people who lengthen the same ammount, and its common sense that those who lengthen less recover better in general, its just physics. The more the muscles are stretched the weaker they get, otherwise there wouldnt be a safe limit which doctors suggest is around 10-15% of the original bone length. This basically confirms that the less you lengthen the better you will recover, ie the maximum potential of your recovery will be higher the less you lengthen. So yes those who lengthen more end up worse in general in the end compared to those who lengthen less.
Now it depends on the individual how much they will notice their loss of athletic ability, so if you arent into sports then i doubt it will mean much to you.
Medium has recovered well, but he confirmed that he has less agility compared to before the surgery. Sweden claims to be at 50% now compared to pre LL, and he had had a long time to recover already. Rgkey has just started recovering, but right now he cannot run, and claims that walking is significantly more difficult than before.
Tendons get weaker from release surgery according to research and tests, now they an recover a bit but most likely not completely, and you yourself already confirmed that Dr Bagirov was against you doing a tendon release, so not all doctors recommend it.
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dr bagirov is against lon too, and internal, etc, etc
dr bagirov is a good dr, but he is against a lot of things that most others drs are for
i don't like to say this... but swedens issue was going to sarin... but even then, he says he should be fully recovered... i'm not into martial arts, so that aspect wouldn't mean much to me... i enjoy riding motor bikes
medium seems fine to me... again,,, you can expect some loss of agility if you lengthen 4 cm or 3 even.... i'm not convinced that theres much of a difference to be honest.... medium can chime in, but from everything i've read, he seems content and able to do things he did before
rgkey.... im not surprised he has some issues running and walking, but i doubt its primarily because of the amount he lengthened.... his right leg is severely bent.... it almost looks like the bone consolidated at a 45 degree angle... it looks painful... and he did external only...
I'm even considering latn now, as the recovery time is dramatically quicker with lon/latn... something like .8 months per cm for recovery time.... it actually increases bone regenerate...though knee pain is making wary...
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The agility loss is a matter of physics. Longer things are harder to lift up and move around, which goes for legs or any other object.
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dr bagirov is against lon too, and internal, etc, etc
dr bagirov is a good dr, but he is against a lot of things that most others drs are for
i don't like to say this... but swedens issue was going to sarin... but even then, he says he should be fully recovered... i'm not into martial arts, so that aspect wouldn't mean much to me... i enjoy riding motor bikes
medium seems fine to me... again,,, you can expect some loss of agility if you lengthen 4 cm or 3 even.... i'm not convinced that theres much of a difference to be honest.... medium can chime in, but from everything i've read, he seems content and able to do things he did before
rgkey.... im not surprised he has some issues running and walking, but i doubt its primarily because of the amount he lengthened.... his right leg is severely bent.... it almost looks like the bone consolidated at a 45 degree angle... it looks painful... and he did external only...
I'm even considering latn now, as the recovery time is dramatically quicker with lon/latn... something like .8 months per cm for recovery time.... it actually increases bone regenerate...though knee pain is making wary...
No, the loss of agility for a patient who 3 or 4 cm will be significantly less noticeable compared to someone who lengthens 7 or 8 cm, thats just scientific fact. Why are you in denial about this? You chose to lengthen more but there are definite drawbacks to it, permament ones.
Sweden has said himself that Sarin did a good job with his surgery, and that most of his problems are due to lengthening to much, he recommends lengthening 5 cm at most for tibias.
In terms of Rgkey, you cant really use his case for your argument since he is so early in recovery phase. One thing we do know is that if he did less lengthening he would be far more mobile at this point.
Also it doesnt really matter if Latn or Lon improves recovery speed per cm, because those methods are designed to remove the frames when lengthening phase is done regardless of the callus regen at that point. And you will either need to keep the nail inside forever or remove them after a year. Also, it will still take a lot of time with 7 cm until you can walk normally after frame removal and nail insertion.
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The agility loss is a matter of physics. Longer things are harder to lift up and move around, which goes for legs or any other object.
Yes, which basically means the longer you make the leg, ie the more cms you add, the more agility you lose.
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It's not that bad though. I've got maybe 80-90% of my previous agility.
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if i got nail inserted this week, ill be walking fine by oct.... instead of being in agony with frames..... though my primary concern is getting the release
I'm about 90 kilo now or so, maybe a little less
i like sweden, but we know dr sarin is a hack..... and sweden is now talking about getting femurs done.... how bad can his issues be if he is thinking about doing this again
i'm not a dr, but i can say with some confidence, that rgkey's severely bent leg is harming his walking ability.....
if lath decreases recovery time to around.8 months per cm, that sounds ok to me, to be honest.... though I'm still hesitant because of knee pain
medium, sweden,.. anyone that has gotten lon or lath... please post here how your knees fail, and if you do have psi, how bad is it, and if you regret doing it instead of external
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When I walk, I can actually feel where the scar tissue is, where the patellar tendon was cut and stretched open. It gives me the sensation of stiffness in my knees.
When I kneel on a hard surface, the nerves below the kneecap, right where the insertion scars are, are hypersensitive and I actually feel pain there.
If these two problems sound okay to you, then proceed with LATN. Personally I wish I'd done external-only. Since external-only involves less surgery, I might have been able to bargain with the institute to let me stay a few extra months there for free. Although all I wanted was OUT OF THAT HOSPITAL as soon as I possibly could at the time, now I wish I'd endured a few more months of discomfort in order to have avoided those two permanent problems.
How much standing have you been doing lately? If you really start working hard with standing and weight-bearing, you might not even need the release.
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so you when walk, you feel it, but no pain??? but on your knees, you actually feel pain?
have done a little standing.. ill try more now... though can't turn my walker on my toes
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That's right.
Don't worry about turning your walker. Just stand and stay still. Maybe bend forward a little at the waist and let your head hang.
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gonna try that..... feel so achey... ugh.... sucks... but i guess its normal
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after talking with dr franz, i'm definitely going to get plating, instead of nails... if i get frames off soon
the knee pain issues with the nails, it's just too risky in my opinion.... i don't wanna risk permanent knee pain... i forgot to ask him though if the laying has to be removed eventually
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Are you coming to SA?
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rising... I'm not sure.... i like dr franz,.. actually, he's the ONLY dr that consistently answers emails....if i just get a release, i think yes,ill be in sa... but the price for plating,etc is too much for me i think... so depends now on what I decide
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after a few months of lengthening... how long does it take to consolidate??? what i mean is, if i went a few days of not lengthening at this stage, would i then need to rebreak bone agai to lengthen say 1 cm more?
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It would take way more than a few days for the bone to consolidate to the point it would have to be re-broken. Don't worry about taking breaks; it was a common practice in Beijing for people to take breaks from lengthening if they were having complications.
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ty medium
dr franz said 2 weeks, probably more of no lengthening
ok, here is the latest update... i need advice
the person that was supposed to help finally came this week.... was supposed to go drop off visa application today, but of course is not here, and didn't do it... the visa section of the embassy is now closed... this guy just can get get thongs done
i have 2 options, and only 2,as far as i can see
1- contact my embassy today, explain my situation, see if they can help me get visa for india, though i don't know if they help in these matters
2-go to south africa, but could only get a release there, not anything else, such as plating, removal,etc
these are my only 2 options,... i think.... i don't think ill be treated in the united states by insurance, as this was an elective procedure, so thats out
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wannabe... i did not state he does them on every patient...
read what i wrote,. "if its not beneficial... why do the top drs do it routinely even for prevention... before any issues arise????
The proper treatment would to be test beforehand to determine if tendon, etc is too tight, and perform the surgery beforehand... again, drs like paley do exactly this
again... patients determined to have a tight tendon, get a release.... before any issues arise... everything quoted supports what i said... again, tell me what is wrong with what i said???? You do not even attempt to reply to that fact....that they are tested, and if found to have a tight tendon, get a release surgery before any ballerina, not after major ballerina, not after a little, but even before any ballerina... why??? as a preventive measure... that is simply a fact
you made this statement
"Every patient that does 8 cm needs it according to them, but we know even that isnt true since Rgkey managed 9 cm with pt instead. However just because releases help if you do very high ammounts of lengthening does not mean they are beneficial, it means they are necessary because you already damaged the legs by lengthening over the safe limit, and the preemtive release will damage the tendon further but allow you to get movement back faster, and it also means you will avoid having to do more complex and expensive surgery to fix it afterwards if you already got ballerina."
again, you are avoiding what paley actually says.... that if he determines their tendon to be tight, he will do a release.... he specifically says this... if the achilles is too tight, he will do a release... .. he says it is required if the test determines the tendon is tight
you also are not properly reading what he says.., the numbers,etc, he gives that you quote are for femur lengthening, not tibia
if you want to reply, you can reply in my thread if you like, as i don't wanna take over this thread
replying here since it got off topic.
Wrong again crimson, I did read what you wrote and it was inaccurate. Specificially when you say tendon release is beneficial, but its not. Tendon release is best avoided but some patients require it. You might not have had required it though if you lengthened slower or used footholders. Most cases of ballerina can be solved through PT.
I dont see how anybody reading that faq can get the idea that tendon releases are something good. Its only for some patients that they are needed but that simply means those specific patients are not able to lengthen as much without damaging their body more, and thus not recovering as well as those who dont need it.
Since they mention that the surgery required afterwards if you already got ballerina feet is worse and more complex, that is the only reason they do it preemtively if they suspect the patients, but its still not a good thing for the body.
and while those specific numbers was for femur, it irrelevant, as mentioned, if the achilles tendon is to tight before the surgery, that simply means your body is not able to lengthen as much without weakening it more with a release.
"If these structures are tight before surgery and not prophylactically lengthened then muscle/joint contractures that require later more expensive surgery are required (in the lay literature these are referred to as duck ass deformity for tight iliotibial band and fascia lata, and ballerina feet for tight Achilles tendon). Prophylactic anterior compartment release is often done at the time of tibial lengthening. There is no additional charge for this procedure. This is done to prevent compartment syndrome."
This quote from Paley is basically saying that the only reason they do it from the beginning with some patients is to prevent them from having to do an even worse surgery afterwards if you develop severe ballerina. Again nothing here suggests it being a beneficial thing, at least not for your case as you already have ballerina.
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if i got nail inserted this week, ill be walking fine by oct.... instead of being in agony with frames..... though my primary concern is getting the release
I'm about 90 kilo now or so, maybe a little less
i like sweden, but we know dr sarin is a hack..... and sweden is now talking about getting femurs done.... how bad can his issues be if he is thinking about doing this again
i'm not a dr, but i can say with some confidence, that rgkey's severely bent leg is harming his walking ability.....
if lath decreases recovery time to around.8 months per cm, that sounds ok to me, to be honest.... though I'm still hesitant because of knee pain
medium, sweden,.. anyone that has gotten lon or lath... please post here how your knees fail, and if you do have psi, how bad is it, and if you regret doing it instead of external
Holy mother of god! You are 90kg????
Just stand up as many hours as you can every day. Then when you can walk you just need to walk as much as possible.
The incision in the patellar tendons are the worse I can tell you. If you sit for a while you can really feel how painful it will be to stand up. It looks like an old man rising from the chair.
Then blood flows to the knees and it's all fine after 4-5 strides.
Some days are better, other are worse.
When you(me) get older it will be much worse - guaranteed!!
LL is bad, really bad for your legs. I want to do femurs bc I want to be taller. Period!
I wanted this when I was in the middle of my professional athlete career, but waited until I was done with it.
Now I will never be able to get back to that level but I'm satisfied with the level I know I'll be at. I can already take out lots of our members and I've knocked out one guy really bad. That gives me a special kind of satisfactory which I can not describe.
Everyone's case is individual for them selves.
My athletic level was probably one of the highest ever to do LL so my current 50% today could be someone else's 100%.
That doesn't mean it's that persons 100% healthy lifestyle.
I mean how fun is a life when you NEVER run except you need to catch the train or something like that?
Some people are satisfied with that - but I'm not!!
I'm already stronger than many in my class at the gym, but I was very much ultra stronger than them before LL as well so it doesn't mean I'm at 90% just bc I can leg press 250kg(in the machine)
If you fight ballerina you will win, the body can adapt.
I have t really read and fully understood your situation being in marocco and all that but it seems worrying considering your current condition. How did it even happen?
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Crimson, your either option sounds better than your currently situation, which is waiting around, getting depressed, and nothing is going anywhere.
To be honest, once you get a release, even without taking off your frame, thing will drastically change, and your mood will drastically change as well.
One thing you shouldn't do is debating what to do for too long, and main while still stay in this rotted situation without help. Act quickly, and leave!
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crimsontide have you been standing or are you just waiting for the release surgery as your only form of PT?
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Empty
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crimsontide, Dr. Bagirov says you don't need the release surgery. It weakens the tendons permanently. I think you should listen to your doctor and not get any more surgeries.
IM nailing might cause permanent knee discomfort like I have. I think you made the right choice going external-only. It led you to a dark place but things will start to get better and life will get more bright if you work hard.
You need to stand until it hurts, then take a short break, and then stand some more. And then keep repeating. Not being able to turn doesn't matter if you're just standing. With your 90kg weight, standing will work wonders to stretch out that Achilles.
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Sorry Medium, I got a bit overreacted as well, my apology! I deleted my previous posting.
Crimson, I agree with Medium that to stand is the best way to cure ballerina foot. In fact, my doctor Dr Donghoon Lee put the most emphasize on standing. He told me more than once that standing is even better for ballerina foot than walking. While you are waiting to decide what to do next, try to stand as much as you can, it will help with your ballerina foot tremendously.
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i contacted embassy... my situation is i can easily get up using a walker, but i can't walk really.. maybe because i haven't in a while, but its really from the ballerina... its really bad... also, my legs feel ok, except now when I'm on my toe standing, my left knee feels some discomfort when i attempt to walk or transfer weight
i contacted embassy, because i have no other choice... theres been an odd black oil leaking from my frame i think... but can't be sure.... my frame has rings so tight i can't even see there.... this can't be from my legs i assume, must be frame, because it is black
i just got on the forum for the first time in a while, so haven't really read new posts here. i wanted to post fast... i think the knee discomfort when i transfer weight is due to ballerina... standing on toes is not very stable, and is causing undue stress...
not sure how common some knee discomfort is... my knee feels fun otherwise, i can bend,etc..... even when standing on toes, i can basically squat down.... i can not walk really now at all, as the tendon is extremely tight, and i am on my toes now 4 or so cm...
i have not done much pt... i am 100% getting a release.... my issue is too extreme, and my situation as such demands it... i am alone, i need to be able to walk , i do not have the luxury of doing pt for a year to fix it....
here is a photo of the black goo... it is definitely from the frames... if you notice, the ring is incredibly close to my leg, so i can't see underneath it, and the pressure i get from the ring is bad....
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the goo, well, I'm not in pain , so i guess its ok... but maybe not.... as you can see, its is black, never seen anything like this come out of any human, so its from the frame.....
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and yes.... i think everything will drastically change, mood included, once i get release, even with frames on.... as id be able to put heels on ground,etc
having to stand on toes, 4 c from the ground on both feet is weird... but doable.... but walking now is too dangerous... when i say I'm on my toes and heel isn't on the ground, i mean I'm really on my toes.... at an extreme angle... think extreme ballerina position... now imagine trying to walk in that position with legs that haven't consolidated yet.... its just not possible.... i don't have nurses or family to help, so doing pt to fix it is not practical for me..... i have to be able to walk
with this black oil issue, i also feel i need to get the frames removed... theres just too many issues with keeping them on....though as long as i can find out and fix this issue, wearing frames would be doable.... the ballerina is definitely not....
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My god, clean your pins and that "black goo" is just dried blood and underneath that probably an infection.
You need to stop being lazy or you wiill get yourself into serious trouble, clean your pins and do PT.
Btw your problem with ballerina is not extreme, you are just very very lazy and not very smart.
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jesus christ...
123... now listen closely... it is not dried....at all... that is not dried blood, because it is not dried, it is wet...... it is liquid, and definitely not infected... , btw it is a flowing black liquid, not congealed....
regarding my issue with ballerina, you have absolutely no idea whether it is extreme or not, as you have never met me, so you must rely on what i say, which is that i have 4 or more cm in each foot, and must rely on myself, so the ballerina is absolutely extreme in my case..... do you have information to the contrary?????
the "debris" is from jeans that i wear, as i have to wear jeans most of the time here
so 123, now that we've established that is not dried blood, do you have anything to say about what it actually is????
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replying here since it got off topic.
Wrong again crimson, I did read what you wrote and it was inaccurate. Specificially when you say tendon release is beneficial, but its not. Tendon release is best avoided but some patients require it. You might not have had required it though if you lengthened slower or used footholders. Most cases of ballerina can be solved through PT.
I dont see how anybody reading that faq can get the idea that tendon releases are something good. Its only for some patients that they are needed but that simply means those specific patients are not able to lengthen as much without damaging their body more, and thus not recovering as well as those who dont need it.
Since they mention that the surgery required afterwards if you already got ballerina feet is worse and more complex, that is the only reason they do it preemtively if they suspect the patients, but its still not a good thing for the body.
and while those specific numbers was for femur, it irrelevant, as mentioned, if the achilles tendon is to tight before the surgery, that simply means your body is not able to lengthen as much without weakening it more with a release.
"If these structures are tight before surgery and not prophylactically lengthened then muscle/joint contractures that require later more expensive surgery are required (in the lay literature these are referred to as duck ass deformity for tight iliotibial band and fascia lata, and ballerina feet for tight Achilles tendon). Prophylactic anterior compartment release is often done at the time of tibial lengthening. There is no additional charge for this procedure. This is done to prevent compartment syndrome."
This quote from Paley is basically saying that the only reason they do it from the beginning with some patients is to prevent them from having to do an even worse surgery afterwards if you develop severe ballerina. Again nothing here suggests it being a beneficial thing, at least not for your case as you already have ballerina.
again, you avoided what i said.... nothing i said was wrong.. you stating it is wrong does not mean it is wrong
the fact is that top drs do releases when needed, even as preventive measures.... not simply after the fact... why???
because they have determined that getting the release is more beneficial than acquiring ballerina, or that getting a release to fix the ballerina is preferred over having ballerina over an extended time ,even if it could be fixed by pt eventually... again, you simply do not address this....
you're reasoning based on a false dilemma, or all or nothing... that a release can't be beneficial because it could have complications
you fail to account for that having ballerina for an extended period of time can most definitely have complications too.... it isn't, this is 100% good, that is 100% bad....
all your reasoning can be used to justify having the release
you stated that tendon releases are best avoided, but so is ballerina... yet i have it now...
wannabe, lets take this very logically... start with premises we can agree on
1- palsy does releases
2- paley does do it not just as a fix, but as a preventive measure
i think we can logically infer that the reason for doing the release beforehand is because in his mind, the complications of ballerina outweigh the risks of the release???? again, keep this on track, and actually interact with what i'm saying.... yes, releases can cause issues, but so can ballerina
by the way... you are 100% wrong about sweden's issues having nothing to do with ballerina... he has explicitly said that his ankle issue is because of lingering ballerina
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again, you avoided what i said.... nothing i said was wrong.. you stating it is wrong does not mean it is wrong
the fact is that top drs do releases when needed, even as preventive measures.... not simply after the fact... why???
because they have determined that getting the release is more beneficial than acquiring ballerina, or that getting a release to fix the ballerina is preferred over having ballerina over an extended time ,even if it could be fixed by pt eventually... again, you simply do not address this....
you're reasoning based on a false dilemma, or all or nothing... that a release can't be beneficial because it could have complications
you fail to account for that having ballerina for an extended period of time can most definitely have complications too.... it isn't, this is 100% good, that is 100% bad....
all your reasoning can be used to justify having the release
you stated that tendon releases are best avoided, but so is ballerina... yet i have it now...
wannabe, lets take this very logically... start with premises we can agree on
1- palsy does releases
2- paley does do it not just as a fix, but as a preventive measure
i think we can logically infer that the reason for doing the release beforehand is because in his mind, the complications of ballerina outweigh the risks of the release???? again, keep this on track, and actually interact with what i'm saying.... yes, releases can cause issues, but so can ballerina
by the way... you are 100% wrong about sweden's issues having nothing to do with ballerina... he has explicitly said that his ankle issue is because of lingering ballerina
Nope, everything about your statement was wrong, get over it. A tendon release is not beneficial period. If a patient can avoid doing it, that is always a better outcome. Some patients require it from the beginning to prevent them from having to do a more serious surgery afterwards if they get severe ballerina. But not all patients who get ballerina need surgery, like Sweden and Rgkey.
Btw its funny you use Swedens case to support your argument (even though you are completely wrong and dont know what you are talking about) when he clearly states he doesnt need a release and its bad to do it.
A release will always weaken the tendon permanently. So it cannot be beneficial. Having ballerina is another issue, but if you already have it, then it wont get worse from there as long as you do pt and stop lengthening.
You want to justify doing something the easy way, and you are in denial of the factual drawbacks you get from doing it. Pt is better in every way other than the fact that it takes more effort and a longer time. Do a release if you want to, i dont really care, but dont fool yourself thinking it is better than doing pt in the long run.
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in an older post, mentioned something about issues with the dr in russia... i said i didn't want to post about it, and received pms about it.. i still didn't say anything
well, i will say now
one of the big reasons for me wanting to go to another surgeon is because while i was at the clinic, after surgery, the other patients would talk, tell you about stories
became aware of 3 other cll cases with bagirov,
1- a woman that lengthened maybe 7 cm.... she had her frames taken off, then either fractured her legs or developed x legs... she had to come back to clinic, and could not walk... this was approximately 2 years after surgery... i never met this woman, but a few females there had, and even had photos... i think she has a diary, but on a russian site
2- a russian man that developed bad ballerina, and to my knowledge still has frames on 11 months later after lengthening 4 or 4.5 cm... i have spoken to this individual,and so has wannabe
3- this one is the worst and is the incident i had alluded to i an earlier post.... dr fahri, who is dr bagirovs assistant showed me in his laptop a man that had surgery and lengthened quite a bit.... his legs looked extremely bad... the worst x legs you can imagine..... dr fahri told me he had done this in baku, and laughed, said that bagirov didn't even know he had performed this surgery... but to him, the situation was comical...
i did not want to state the last thing publicly, as dr fahri explicitly told me bagirov had no idea he had done it... but it's relevant, because dr fahri is the one that basically supervises everything after the surgery
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in an older post, mentioned something about issues with the dr in russia... i said i didn't want to post about it, and received pms about it.. i still didn't say anything
well, i will say now
one of the big reasons for me wanting to go to another surgeon is because while i was at the clinic, after surgery, the other patients would talk, tell you about stories
became aware of 3 other cll cases with bagirov,
1- a woman that lengthened maybe 7 cm.... she had her frames taken off, then either fractured her legs or developed x legs... she had to come back to clinic, and could not walk... this was approximately 2 years after surgery... i never met this woman, but a few females there had, and even had photos... i think she has a diary, but on a russian site
2- a russian man that developed bad ballerina, and to my knowledge still has frames on 11 months later after lengthening 4 or 4.5 cm... i have spoken to this individual,and so has wannabe
3- this one is the worst and is the incident i had alluded to i an earlier post.... dr fahri, who is dr bagirovs assistant showed me in his laptop a man that had surgery and lengthened quite a bit.... his legs looked extremely bad... the worst x legs you can imagine..... dr fahri told me he had done this in baku, and laughed, said that bagirov didn't even know he had performed this surgery... but to him, the situation was comical...
i did not want to state the last thing publicly, as dr fahri explicitly told me bagirov had no idea he had done it... but it's relevant, because dr fahri is the one that basically supervises everything after the surgery
The 2 first stories i am aware about, the girl who fractured her leg (her leg got bent actually, so she had to redo the process), the reason that happened was because she started doing sports/activities before she was allowed too. You are supposed to use crutches for a while after frame removal and then for at least 6 months not do any sports. So since she didnt follow the doctors advice she still has issues 2 years after surgery. At least im pretty sure this is the same girl as you where talking about.
The russian man, i know him and have talked a lot with him, and i already mentioned that he blames himself for his problems now, he admits to not following instructions, lengthening to fast and not slowing down when he got a severe infection, also overexerted himself to early, and developed ballerina in one leg. He also had like 6 mm discrepancy between his legs when he was done with the lengthening phase and had to fix that, and a few months afterwards decided to add 5 mm more to both legs. This coupled with slower than average consolidation is the reason why it took him so long, but he doesnt blame Bagirov.
The last thing you mention i have never heard about, who did the surgery in Baku? i have a hard time imagining Fachri would just show you a failed case of a patient if he himself was the surgeon and he was at fault for the failure. He is a doctor so it doesnt sound believable he would laugh if he caused the patients those problems. I know Fachri and have talked a lot with him. More likely that patient didnt follow instructions and most likely lengthened to much or turned those other screws that are used for correction more than he should have.
Btw i got a PM (will keep the user private) that told me Bagirovs clinic does not allow patients to lengthen at home anymore because some patients dont "follow their instructions" and hurt themselves. This poster was going to do the surgery with Bagirov but might not be able to now because he cant afford to be away for 3 months to lengthen.
Im almost 100% sure this decision of the clinic has a lot to do with your case of lengthening and how you completely neglected their recommendations.
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This is why I never wanted to go to Russia in the first place.
I've heard these stories as well and a couple others where patients break their legs after frame removal.
Very bad!
But many times it's bc of stupid patients.
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This is why I never wanted to go to Russia in the first place.
I've heard these stories as well and a couple others where patients break their legs after frame removal.
Very bad!
But many times it's bc of stupid patients.
Im sure there exists stories about leg breakage in most LL countries :p But yeah for sure it is not always the doctors fault.
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The 2 first stories i am aware about, the girl who fractured her leg (her leg got bent actually, so she had to redo the process), the reason that happened was because she started doing sports/activities before she was allowed too. You are supposed to use crutches for a while after frame removal and then for at least 6 months not do any sports. So since she didnt follow the doctors advice she still has issues 2 years after surgery. At least im pretty sure this is the same girl as you where talking about.
The russian man, i know him and have talked a lot with him, and i already mentioned that he blames himself for his problems now, he admits to not following instructions, lengthening to fast and not slowing down when he got a severe infection, also overexerted himself to early, and developed ballerina in one leg. He also had like 6 mm discrepancy between his legs when he was done with the lengthening phase and had to fix that, and a few months afterwards decided to add 5 mm more to both legs. This coupled with slower than average consolidation is the reason why it took him so long, but he doesnt blame Bagirov.
The last thing you mention i have never heard about, who did the surgery in Baku? i have a hard time imagining Fachri would just show you a failed case of a patient if he himself was the surgeon and he was at fault for the failure. He is a doctor so it doesnt sound believable he would laugh if he caused the patients those problems. I know Fachri and have talked a lot with him. More likely that patient didnt follow instructions and most likely lengthened to much or turned those other screws that are used for correction more than he should have.
Btw i got a PM (will keep the user private) that told me Bagirovs clinic does not allow patients to lengthen at home anymore because some patients dont "follow their instructions" and hurt themselves. This poster was going to do the surgery with Bagirov but might not be able to now because he cant afford to be away for 3 months to lengthen.
Im almost 100% sure this decision of the clinic has a lot to do with your case of lengthening and how you completely neglected their recommendations.
wannabe,... let's put this all out there... let's be honest
ill address case number 1
1- according to what i heard, it was not because of sports issues... but again, i don't know know... unlike you, who claims to know 100% sure how it happened,i do not... you post as if you know... which you obviously do not... you are posting what you were told.... you could be right, but you could be wrong... if this was an isolated case, then okay.... but it clearly is not
2-the russian man, used to blame the drs.... he changes... but the fact is he's still in frames almost a year later after lengthening around 4 cm
3-who did the surgery in baku??? i already stated... fahri... the man that oversees everyone's treatment after surgery..... now you seem to be just giving excuses as to why it happened... but i'm the one he showed... and yes, he absolutely thought it was comical, whether you want to believe it or not....... the man also had severe ballerina...... in your defense of fahri, you fail to mention he did this without the permission of bagirov, which i think he needs... that was actually my main point.... he diid it without bagirov knowing, and yes, he told me not to say anything, though he didn't seem too concerned about telling me... i don't know exactly why this man's legs are deformed now, but again... this isn't an isolated case, there are others.... cases of alignment,etc\
in facrt, id say the majority of cases i know of have these complications,which is exactly the point.... if its happening so much, perhaps the drs have a part of the blame
i wanna address your last comment... how i completely neglected their recommendations.... again, you sound like a spokesman more than an unbiased 3rd party observer
first of all, you have no idea what they recommended... because we have never met
i can tell you their recommendations....keep legs straight, try to keep ankle straight.... that's all
there was absolutely no recommended exercises or pt plan given to me..... there was no instruction on proper pin site care,etc... there was no pt done at all while i was there, and there was no x ray taken after the surgery, even though i was there a few weeks after...
regarding the statement that bagirov doesn't allow patients now to lengthen at home... then where do they lengthen??? surely not in russia, as the clinic has 4rooms, and no guesthouse....so where are these new patients lengthening???? baku???? for $1800 euro a month? it is not in Moscow, that is for sure
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wannabe,... let's put this all out there... let's be honest
ill address case number 1
1- according to what i heard, it was not because of sports issues... but again, i don't know know... unlike you, who claims to know 100% sure how it happened,i do not... you post as if you know... which you obviously do not... you are posting what you were told.... you could be right, but you could be wrong... if this was an isolated case, then okay.... but it clearly is not
2-the russian man, used to blame the drs.... he changes... but the fact is he's still in frames almost a year later after lengthening around 4 cm
3-who did the surgery in baku??? i already stated... fahri... the man that oversees everyone's treatment after surgery..... now you seem to be just giving excuses as to why it happened... but i'm the one he showed... and yes, he absolutely thought it was comical, whether you want to believe it or not....... the man also had severe ballerina...... in your defense of fahri, you fail to mention he did this without the permission of bagirov, which i think he needs... that was actually my main point.... he diid it without bagirov knowing, and yes, he told me not to say anything, though he didn't seem too concerned about telling me... i don't know exactly why this man's legs are deformed now, but again... this isn't an isolated case, there are others.... cases of alignment,etc\
in facrt, id say the majority of cases i know of have these complications,which is exactly the point.... if its happening so much, perhaps the drs have a part of the blame
i wanna address your last comment... how i completely neglected their recommendations.... again, you sound like a spokesman more than an unbiased 3rd party observer
first of all, you have no idea what they recommended... because we have never met
i can tell you their recommendations....keep legs straight, try to keep ankle straight.... that's all
there was absolutely no recommended exercises or pt plan given to me..... there was no instruction on proper pin site care,etc... there was no pt done at all while i was there, and there was no x ray taken after the surgery, even though i was there a few weeks after...
regarding the statement that bagirov doesn't allow patients now to lengthen at home... then where do they lengthen??? surely not in russia, as the clinic has 4rooms, and no guesthouse....so where are these new patients lengthening???? baku???? for $1800 euro a month? it is not in Moscow, that is for sure
I got told that story by the nurses, of course we used a translator on my phone but i see no reason why they would lie. In your version of the story you just claim the legs bent or broke, but you didnt mentioned why it happened. Im more inclined to believe that it happened because she was to active before she was allowed to rather than it happening for no reason other than removing the frames to early. I met former patients there and they all seemed very knowledgable of the clinic and they all claim Bagirov was a good doctor. He wouldnt have a good reputation if peoples leg broke or bent because of removing the frame to early even if the patients followed his instructions. Btw you are talking crap again, i never claimed i knew 100% what happened, that should be obvious since i wasnt there to see it happen. We also have no reason to believe this isnt an isolated case, or a very rary case at least.
2. Nope, ive talked to him very often ever since i met him during my first stay at the clinic in mars, he has never told me it was Bagirovs fault. He also mentioned that he has been talking to you, and that you do not follow doctors recommendations. We already know you lengthened to fast.
3. Im not making excuses, just your story sounds very unbelievable, it wouldnt suprise me if you misunderstood what Fachri was saying since his english isnt very good at all, he uses a translator and it can get very inaccurate from the original message intended. Also like i suspected you have no idea why he got deformed legs, so why assume it was the doctors fault?
If we are being honest here, you dont have any case where we can say for sure the doctors made the patient have deformed legs, at most you might have 1. you cant make a hyperbole out of that and claim "it is happening so much", thats just laughable.
The reason im not likely to taking your side over the doctors, is because they have mentioned at the clinic that you where lazy, the things ive read in this diary makes it seem very apparent that they are correct too. Also, i have no problems and i followed the instructions so i have no reason not to believe them that if you follow instructions you will be fine.
They told me use a footholder, they gave me a box at the clinic to keep my feet 90 degrees. Walk ca 3 times a day in the beginning and more as you recover. Also stretch the achilles by pushing up the toes/front part of the feet towards the knee, this can be achieved in many ways, doesnt take a genious to figure out. Keeping the legs straight to prevent knee bend.
This combined with taking the medicine in correct order, and how to use ointment for infections, avoid getting water in the pin sites, and not lengthen faster than 0.75 mm/day, slow down if i get to much pain (which never got) or infection. Also since i already told them how much i intended to lengthen they didnt have to mention any limits. im sure if i told them i wanted 8 cm they would have warned me of the risks.
majority of these things are the same as they told you, the others i made sure to ask them about because i did my research about what you should know before doing LL.
The only pt you need is to stretch akilles and walk, im sure they told you this. I didnt get an x-ray either before i returned ca 2 months later for check up.
In terms of pin site care, all i needed to know how to do it was watch one of the nurses do it, they used anti septic fluid and sterilized
compressors. not difficult.
And yes apparantly they have them lengthen at an appartment in Baku now.
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I got told that story by the nurses, of course we used a translator on my phone but i see no reason why they would lie. In your version of the story you just claim the legs bent or broke, but you didnt mentioned why it happened. Im more inclined to believe that it happened because she was to active before she was allowed to rather than it happening for no reason other than removing the frames to early. I met former patients there and they all seemed very knowledgable of the clinic and they all claim Bagirov was a good doctor. He wouldnt have a good reputation if peoples leg broke or bent because of removing the frame to early even if the patients followed his instructions. Btw you are talking crap again, i never claimed i knew 100% what happened, that should be obvious since i wasnt there to see it happen. We also have no reason to believe this isnt an isolated case, or a very rary case at least.
2. Nope, ive talked to him very often ever since i met him during my first stay at the clinic in mars, he has never told me it was Bagirovs fault. He also mentioned that he has been talking to you, and that you do not follow doctors recommendations. We already know you lengthened to fast.
3. Im not making excuses, just your story sounds very unbelievable, it wouldnt suprise me if you misunderstood what Fachri was saying since his english isnt very good at all, he uses a translator and it can get very inaccurate from the original message intended. Also like i suspected you have no idea why he got deformed legs, so why assume it was the doctors fault?
If we are being honest here, you dont have any case where we can say for sure the doctors made the patient have deformed legs, at most you might have 1. you cant make a hyperbole out of that and claim "it is happening so much", thats just laughable.
The reason im not likely to taking your side over the doctors, is because they have mentioned at the clinic that you where lazy, the things ive read in this diary makes it seem very apparent that they are correct too. Also, i have no problems and i followed the instructions so i have no reason not to believe them that if you follow instructions you will be fine.
They told me use a footholder, they gave me a box at the clinic to keep my feet 90 degrees. Walk ca 3 times a day in the beginning and more as you recover. Also stretch the achilles by pushing up the toes/front part of the feet towards the knee, this can be achieved in many ways, doesnt take a genious to figure out. Keeping the legs straight to prevent knee bend.
This combined with taking the medicine in correct order, and how to use ointment for infections, avoid getting water in the pin sites, and not lengthen faster than 0.75 mm/day, slow down if i get to much pain (which never got) or infection. Also since i already told them how much i intended to lengthen they didnt have to mention any limits. im sure if i told them i wanted 8 cm they would have warned me of the risks.
majority of these things are the same as they told you, the others i made sure to ask them about because i did my research about what you should know before doing LL.
The only pt you need is to stretch akilles and walk, im sure they told you this. I didnt get an x-ray either before i returned ca 2 months later for check up.
In terms of pin site care, all i needed to know how to do it was watch one of the nurses do it, they used anti septic fluid and sterilized
compressors. not difficult.
And yes apparantly they have them lengthen at an appartment in Baku now.
1--yes, you did claim you knew... you stated it as a fact
2-actually.... he told me differently... again, i know what the russian patient said to me... but you do not, as you are not me
3- i did not misunderstand what he was saying..., please, stop the excuses... he showed me photos, translated, etc etc... I'm 100% sure i know what he said to me... again, since i was the one he told, and you weren't there, so what you think of what he told me has 0% weight.. i was the only person there talking to him, you were not
4-why make assumptions???? let us look at at all the known cll patients we know that went to dr bagirov.... the girl, russian guy, you, and another person that has a diary on another board... all of us, except you have had serious issues... so i can infer from that... i never said i know for a fact, but its a reasonable conclusion
5- they told you i was lazy????? you do realize you are not helping the case of your drs here, don't you??? most patients want confidentiality.... not to mention it isn't true, but even if it were, its hardly proper to tell other patients a patient is lazy...
again, you keep talking about he majority of things, etc etc that i was told.... again, you have no idea, because you were not there... i do not presume to know what they told you, so i don't comment on it, but for some reason, you know exactly what i was told
you mention about taking the medicines in correct order... again... i was never told that... do not assume it
i was walking.... it did not prevent ballerina.... your statement that you did not receive an x ray for a few months hardly makes the clinic look better by the way....
let's actually talk about you now though.... according to you, you will have frames on maybe 3 more months.... so we are talking 8 months,maybe more.... that is getting close to 2 months for each cm.... the slow end, though you are supposed to be his top patient...
maybe it's time we all posted videos of our progress.... and put it all out there
edited: insults/hostility comments
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1--yes, you did claim you knew... you stated it as a fact
2-actually.... he told me differently... again, i know what the russian patient said to me... but you do not, as you are not me
3- i did not misunderstand what he was saying..., please, stop the excuses... he showed me photos, translated, etc etc... I'm 100% sure i know what he said to me... again, since i was the one he told, and you weren't there, so what you think of what he told me has 0% weight.. i was the only person there talking to him, you were not
4-why make assumptions???? let us look at at all the known cll patients we know that went to dr bagirov.... the girl, russian guy, you, and another person that has a diary on another board... all of us, except you have had serious issues... so i can infer from that... i never said i know for a fact, but its a reasonable conclusion
5- they told you i was lazy????? you do realize you are not helping the case of your drs here, don't you??? most patients want confidentiality.... not to mention it isn't true, but even if it were, its hardly proper to tell other patients a patient is lazy...
again, you keep talking about he majority of things, etc etc that i was told.... again, you have no idea, because you were not there... i do not presume to know what they told you, so i don't comment on it, but for some reason, you know exactly what i was told
you mention about taking the medicines in correct order... again... i was never told that... do not assume it
i was walking.... it did not prevent ballerina.... your statement that you did not receive an x ray for a few months hardly makes the clinic look better by the way....
let's actually talk about you now though.... according to you, you will have frames on maybe 3 more months.... so we are talking 8 months,maybe more.... that is getting close to 2 months for each cm.... the slow end, though you are supposed to be his top patient...
maybe it's time we all posted videos of our progress.... and put it all out there
1. nope i did not. I stated i had heard the story of that girl.
2. I have no reason to believe this, and even if (big if) he did, all that matters is what he thinks now. He has clearly stated to me that he doesnt blame Bagirov. I could probably get him to make an account here and refute your claim. Il check with him in a bit.
3. not making excuses, only it is you making a lot of big claims about it being the doctors fault when he didnt say anything of that. You are the one making assuptions. Also you seem to be the type of person to change the story however it suits you.
4. like i said, i saw several post op patients there who where happy with their results. Some of the girls there doing the surgery claimed to have friends who did it successfully. 4 surgeries is very little data. And 2 of them we know for sure have made many mistakes themselves (you and our russian friend). The nurses told me the girl was active in sports before she was allowed so if thats true then we really have no case where the blame can safely be put on the doctor.
5. I believe them when they said you where lazy, considering you didnt want to do any pt and walked very little. it was the nurses btw.
Even if it was the doctors who told me, it would be a different issue and nothing to do with his capability as a surgeon.
I have a hard time imagining they would just give you the medicine and not tell you anything what to do with it, they must know you dont understand russian text. And if you wanted to know was it to hard for you to ask? lol
I have no reason to believe they would avoid telling you things they told me (why would they?), but for you it seems like you want to remove the blame from yourself onto them, so you would have a reason to spin the story.
I might have frames 2 more months. or earlier. That makes me in the average range. They told me patients on average need 6-9 months for 4 cm. I did 4.3 cm and in 2 months it will have taken me 7 months. Also i added 1.5 mm extea onto my left leg to fix discrepency, as well as having a knee injury from earlier that made me put less weight onto it during the early consolidation phase. Thats why my left leg is lagging behind a bit, the doctor things i can remove the frame from my right leg in 1 month.
And where did you get that i was their top patient? I never mentioned that. I followed all their instructions unlike you, and thats why i didnt have any problems.
I dont have an agenda to make the clinic look better, im trying to be objective. But you are clearly trying to make the clinic look bad so that you remove blame for your own current state onto them.
edited: insults/hostility comments
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1--- you stated it as is, aka as if it is how it happened... but who cares.... the fact is she's not well after 2 years, and the russian guy isn't well after a year almost, only lengthening around 4 cm
2-i would love for him to make an account here... please do so... and then we can get the diaries in russian translated here... i am 100%%%%% for this... i know members have pm me about the russian site, it is well known to some.... there is only 1 fact we can be sure of regarding russian guy btw.... HE STILL CAN'T f**kING WALK AFTER A YEAR, ONLY LENGTHENING 4 CM... IN FACT... HE CAN NOT EVEN STAND UP UNAIDED..... No amount of sPin is going to change that simple fact.
3-YOU accuse me of changing a story, point out what i changed... you were not in the room when i spoke to him... so you have no absolutely no idea of what was said.... point out where i c hanged stories to suit my facts..... ruyssian guy can't walk, has ballerina, russian girl can't walk, 2 years after fact, other diary on the other site mentions alignment issues...... point out which parts of what i said are not accurate
4-i knew some patients that were getting frames off too... they had met you.... but they were not lengthening, not one... they were all girls getting corrections for bow legs
5-you seem to avoid the ethical issues i brought up..... as you know what i said is true.... and if things like this are not an issue, then why mention you can't believe fahri laughed???? because you expect a certain standard of etiquette from a dr and his team
i do not have an agenda.... I'm partly to blame, but so are they
i notice you stopped mentioning you were not x rayed for a few months after surgery.... hard to defend i know
you find it hard to believe they would give me medicine without mentioning how to take it.... well here again you make other false assumptions... i was never given any meds when i left.... i was given a piece of paper while i was getting in the car to travel to the airport.... the information on the paper was not clear though, so i had to contact them later to try to clarify... again, not from bagirov, but fahri
let's be objective... let's all post videos... i expect to see you walking unaided up and down the stairs
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1--- you stated it as is, aka as if it is how it happened... but who cares.... the fact is she's not well after 2 years, and the russian guy isn't well after a year almost, only lengthening around 4 cm
2-i would love for him to make an account here... please do so... and then we can get the diaries in russian translated here... i am 100%%%%% for this... i know members have pm me about the russian site, it is well known to some.... there is only 1 fact we can be sure of regarding russian guy btw.... HE STILL CAN'T f**kING WALK AFTER A YEAR, ONLY LENGTHENING 4 CM... IN FACT... HE CAN NOT EVEN STAND UP UNAIDED..... No amount of sPin is going to change that simple fact.
3-YOU accuse me of changing a story, point out what i changed... you were not in the room when i spoke to him... so you have no absolutely no idea of what was said.... point out where i c hanged stories to suit my facts..... ruyssian guy can't walk, has ballerina, russian girl can't walk, 2 years after fact, other diary on the other site mentions alignment issues...... point out which parts of what i said are not accurate
4-i knew some patients that were getting frames off too... they had met you.... but they were not lengthening, not one... they were all girls getting corrections for bow legs
5-you seem to avoid the ethical issues i brought up..... as you know what i said is true.... and if things like this are not an issue, then why mention you can't believe fahri laughed???? because you expect a certain standard of etiquette from a dr and his team
i do not have an agenda.... I'm partly to blame, but so are they
i notice you stopped mentioning you were not x rayed for a few months after surgery.... hard to defend i know
you find it hard to believe they would give me medicine without mentioning how to take it.... well here again you make other false assumptions... i was never given any meds when i left.... i was given a piece of paper while i was getting in the car to travel to the airport.... the information on the paper was not clear though, so i had to contact them later to try to clarify... again, not from bagirov, but fahri
let's be objective... let's all post videos... i expect to see you walking unaided up and down the stairs
1. Nope i did not, i just claimed i had heard the story of that girl, and then filled in the blanks which you didnt mention. Since she had to rebreak the leg, it makes sense that it would have taken her a much longer time. I have already explained about the russian guy. He does not blame Bagirov for it. He knows better than you and me, so no point in bringing that up, it doesnt support your argument.
2. the russian guy lengthened 4.5 mm, he added those extra mm very late after he was done with the initial lengthening phase. And he got ballerina because he lengthened to fast even while having an infection. Those things slow everything down. We know this, it doesnt help your argument at all.
3. i know for a fact now that you changed what Russian guy told you, he told me just now that this was the conversation you had: when he told you he had ballerina, you mentioned that it could be because the frames where not placed properly. Then he just answered "maybe". But he still doesnt blame Bagirov because he is aware of all the other problems which where caused by lengthening to fast.
4. The patients staying at the rooms where not all the ones i met. Some came to visit only for a day. And some where downstairs when i was waiting for the scan of my legs.
5. The ethics are not important when it comes to the problems you have. If some nurses at the hospital have bad etiquette is irrelevant to how good job the doctor does with his surgeries. The problems you have with your legs are your own fault.
And when i say i cant believe fachri laughed, i said specifically that i cant believe he would laugh at a patient having a deformity if he caused it by doing a bad surgery. If a patient didnt follow his advice, then i can see him doing it, not in a malicious way though.
I have no reason to mention or defend that i werent x-rayed before i returned because they told me that this was the way they handled things. I didnt expect to get an x-ray before i returned. Its not necessary if you have only lengthened 5 mm at that point. They already have all the data on your legs before you start lengthening, another x-ray 5-10 days into extraction isnt a big deal. they have you lengthen faster in the beginning to prevent risks like premature consolidation.
Are you saying you didnt get the option to buy meds when you left? or did you get a paper with instructions for your meds? Either way you can keep saying these claims of yours are true or not, it doesnt make you more credible. You want me to show a video yet you make all sorts of claims without evidence. I will make a video in a few days.
Majority of your issues are your own fault. That much is obvious from just reading the diary.
edited: insults/hostility comments
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Again, Russian guy can't walk a year later. ... He can not even stand up.... that is the fact. .. he's looking at a year and a half minimum without walking unaided or close to it... After 4 cm... and he has had other issues, the girl can't walk 2 years later.
. The Other Diary , Alignment Issues. .. I stick with facts, and these are the facts. .. you have excuses... have not even bothered to explain fahri performing the surgery alone, or the fact they don't do X rays until months after.
2- this is really part of part 1, but I notice you haven't mentioned his nerve issues and numbness in his leg, you also did not mention he started getting ballerina after they did a correction on him and he absolutely said that was the reason for his issues. ..that they did something wrong. ... He may not feel that way now but he definitely believed that.
3-again, he said they misplaced the frames, not me... I will post our Skype if needed.... I'm sure about this, btw, I never mentioned anything about improper frame placement on here, so what exactly are you talking about? I listed a fact. . He can't walk ,still has frames on, and can't even stand without using his arms.... He has more than just ballerina issues
You seem to have drunk the Kool aid... you stated that if we get problems with our legs, it is our fault. .. so according to you, they are infallible?
It is not normal practice to wait 2 months for an X ray.
. Very simple. .. Also, regarding fahri, he is not authorized to do this surgery by himself. That is why he is an assistant. .. you avoided the whole point. .. He should never have performed the surgery in the first place
Yes doctor wannabe. I am saying I did not get the option to buy meds before I left...
I can show a video, of me standing with ballerina. .. is that people want to see? That is the issue I've been bitching about. .. have not made other claims. ... maybe ill squat too , because I said I could bend my knees, etc
And Yes. Show a video. .. unaided, no walker, no crutch, no one helping, up the stairs and down the stairs
I'll give you respect for it if you do. .. though I still wouldn't shut up... you should be able to do what you said, with ease as you did not lengthen much, your mother is a nurse and you've had no issues supposedly
Until then, .........
I had to edit;)
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Again, Russian guy can't walk a year later. ... He can not even stand up.... that is the fact. .. he's looking at a year and a half minimum without walking unaided or close to it... After 4 cm... and he has had other issues, the girl can't walk 2 years later.
. The Other Diary , Alignment Issues. .. I stick with facts, and these are the facts. .. you have excuses... have not even bothered to explain fahri performing the surgery alone, or the fact they don't do X rays until months after.
2- this is really part of part 1, but I notice you haven't mentioned his nerve issues and numbness in his leg, you also did not mention he started getting ballerina after they did a correction on him and he absolutely said that was the reason for his issues. ..that they did something wrong. ... He may not feel that way now but he definitely believed that.
3-again, he said they misplaced the frames, not me... I will post our Skype if needed.... I'm sure about this, btw, I never mentioned anything about improper frame placement on here, so what exactly are you talking about? I listed a fact. . He can't walk ,still has frames on, and can't even stand without using his arms.... He has more than just ballerina issues
You seem to have drunk the Kool aid... you stated that if we get problems with our legs, it is our fault. .. so according to you, they are infallible?
It is not normal practice to wait 2 months for an X ray.
. Very simple. .. Also, regarding fahri, he is not authorized to do this surgery by himself. That is why he is an assistant. .. you avoided the whole point. .. He should never have performed the surgery in the first place
Yes doctor wannabe. I am saying I did not get the option to buy meds before I left...
I can show a video, of me standing with ballerina. .. is that people want to see? That is the issue I've been bitching about. .. have not made other claims. ... maybe ill squat too , because I said I could bend my knees, etc
And Yes. Show a video. .. unaided, no walker, no crutch, no one helping, up the stairs and down the stairs
I'll give you respect for it if you do. .. though I still wouldn't shut up... you should be able to do what you said, with ease as you did not lengthen much, your mother is a nurse and you've had no issues supposedly
Stop bringing up the Russian guy, his problems are mainly because he lengthened to fast and got a severe infection. He has told me so from the beginning and he did it again today. Btw at this moment, our Russian friend is sending me screen savers of your conversation you had when you just got started.. he explained pretty much everything to you that i got to know. And you still didnt follow his advice. Il post them here for all to see in a moment.
As for what you claim of doctor Fachri, do you even know he isnt allowed to do the surgery on his own? And I very much doubt that his assistant would be able to do a surgery without Bagirov knowing. How would he not be able to find out about that when they keep records and everything, all we have is your word here.
How likely is it that Fachri would tell a random patient of something he was not allowed to do, something he would likely be fired for if it is true that he isnt allowed to do the surgery? Does not sound believable at all. If he told you this, then it wasnt something that Bagirov didnt already know about, or it wasnt anything that he wasnt allowed to do.
Russian guy told you everything he told me, which was pretty much all i needed to know.
I didnt ask for a video from you, i mentioned that all the claims you are making here dont have any evidence behind it, and you are making big claims about the clinic. Then you want me to offer evidence when you dont? I will post a video but that still leaves you with lots of claims which you can never prove.
And if i should be able to do what i say i can, why do you need evidence? thats the thing. Im not making any big claims, you are, you have more need of evidence to back up what you say than i do.
edited: insults/hostility comments
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I was told to be nice, and not reply.... so
i will simply list the facts... forget about all the hearsay you've heard today... lets examine the facts
we are aware of maybe 4 or 5 case studies of cll with bagirov
1- russian girl- 2 years later,, can't walk
2-russian guy- almost a year later, lengthened 4 cm, still can't walk, can not even stand unaided
3- me...
4- another patient that wrote a diary and had alignment issues
5- wannabe
these are the 5 confirmed cases studies.... i will leave out the man in baku, though he exists
now, out of these 5 cases, 4 have had serious issues.... 80%.... again, i won't go into speculating on why or how ... just listing facts...
i have not promoted any other dr in here... though I've been in contact with 2, shah and birkholtz, and will give a positive review if i get a release from either of them... only way I'm not giving a positive review is if they cripple me.... the ballerina is that bad.. i just want it gone... but I'm being upfront about this
now wannabe seems to have a passion for defending this clinic... i have an opinion on why this is, but i won't say why, and anyway, it would just be my opinion, not a fact.... i could be wrong about what i'm thinking
now this conversation has gone in circles for a long time... basically it boils down to this
i feel members here should know the full details and be informed before making their decision..
forget all the assumptions, and assertions made which can't be proven... look at the 5 confirmed case..... think
and regarding dr fahri performing a surgery alone, and showing me photos of the man with crooked legs, it is 100% true... to me, it is useless to argue... simply say you think i'm lying or move on... i was there, no one else but dr fahri was there
i am not lying about it though... you can simply believe me or not, but i will state it, as it happened... these are the things members must know.... everything else, the petty bickering, he said she said, that can be deleted...the 5 case studies we have, and the incident with dr fahri are the only things that really matter.... i won't speculate on why the man in baku had crooked legs, or out of 5 case studies, 80% have had serious issues... 2 very serious...
you members are intelligent enough to take in the information and make a decision for yourselves
....
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I think this discussion has been going into circles. Everyone is entitled to an opinion/perspective but express it in a non hostile/insulting manner.
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dameon... i know you said to not reply, but i think my reply was warranted
i did not make any assumptions, or speculate... i simply gave the verified cases of cll with bagirov... and listed facts that seem to not be in dispute... members can decide for themselves the reasons wh... if it's solely the fault of the patients, or the doctors, or a mix of both
I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings
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As I said don't reply to insults/hostility of each other. Feel free to continue discussing about the facts related to the Dr, but stick to the topic without resorting to insults/hostility.
I have edit comments that fall into that insults/hostlity catergory (ie: shut up and fk) and pm wannabegiant and crimsontide which comments they are.
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to me, the matter is done... thee is no point in going over the same thing over and over... it's giving me a headache....
and what i care about most right nose is fixing the ballerina so I'm whole again.
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My intention was not to hurt your feelings, but i will tell you this crimson. I know for a fact that you where warned about many of the complications you now have, and you ignored them. I have the screen savers, but it would be very low to post them, and our mutual friend talked me out of doing it. Instead. He will register to this forum some time tomorrow and give his opinion on this clinic, as well as proving that you did indeed get the instructions you needed and the warnings of not lengthening to much etc.
This will give a more unbiased view of the clinic and what issues are with the doctors and what is the patients responsibility.
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to get back on point...
i just noticed regarding achilles release... dr catagni says it is needed in 70% of patients doing more than 3-5 cm
so there's another dr that recognizes the need for achilles release
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This isn't true at all, release surgery is only needed if you are to stupid to do PT. Ballerina will resolve with time an PT.
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he can post up if needed...
i do not care...
to be honest, i feel bad using him as an example... but its the truth.... he can not walk, and who knows when he can... that's all i need to hear... he is still under the care of bagirov, so i understand why he hopes for the best, and would not wanna say anything negative about him
by the way... i did not follow his advice, it is true... but why would i... he can not walk after a year... would you take swimming lessons from someone that can't swim.... his advice for ballerina was to put blocks under my heels..... pretty sure that would not have helped my ballerina
i like the guy, though again, i've never met him... and we did not speak that much.. to say he can prove what i was told.... he was not there, we never met even once... he can say what bagirov/fahri now tells him to say, but he was not there....
it all comes down to results.... the guy can't walk, and still has frames on, after almost a year, or maybe it is a year now... he can say what he wants, but he can't walk, or even stand unaided... i care about results, and when i see not just him, but others having issues long after, i start to wonder whether i should get a second opinion
it comes down to this.... i wanna see a video of him walking... i don't care about words.... he hasn't been lengthening for a while,, supposedly he's doing things correctly now, well, then let's see when these frames come off and he's walking unaided without ballerina .... its a year now....
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This isn't true at all, release surgery is only needed if you are to stupid to do PT. Ballerina will resolve with time an PT.
argue with dr catagni, i'm stating what's in his profile... too stupid btw, not to...
and no, ballerina does not always resolve, and even if it does... are the issues that arise from having ballerina over a year less detrimental than having a release
sweden has stated recently he still has issues with his ankle because his ballerina is not totally fixed yet.... that's a long time...
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argue with dr catagni, i'm stating what's in his profile... too stupid btw, not to...
and no, ballerina does not always resolve, and even if it does... are the issues that arise from having ballerina over a year less detrimental than having a release
sweden has stated recently he still has issues with his ankle because his ballerina is not totally fixed yet.... that's a long time...
Well if you I would have been as lazy as you I would also have ballerina and serious muscle atrophy, but thankfully I'm not retarted.
We all want to help you, but you are too dumb to listen to people who know more than you.
There is a reason you are alone with nobody to take care of you.
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dr 123... can you actually interact with what the drs said, such as catagni
he said 70% need achilles release... can you address that
to be clear for you.... can you explain why we should listen to member 123 on an anonymous board, over the advice of some of the top drs in the world????
i'm all ears
btw, i have ballerina, i wish my leg muscles were more atrophied... the size of them is still a problem for me
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You can listen to the guy who's happy to take money from you or you can listen to me who did this surgery in one of the best hospitals in the world. Unlike you or all the other people who go to India etc..
Whatever, I'm done trying to help you. Have fun on your journey.
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I refuse to have scar tissue in my tendons. It's never a good idea.
It's a long time but that's the way with LL. It takes time. 2-3 years is the recovery time. That's just the way it is.
Nobody doesn't have aches or anything like that a year after.
This is not a nose job.
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123, list the dr you did it with....
paley, catagni, guichet all do releases when needed
they are not in india.....
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There is a reason you are alone with nobody to take care of you.
^^^^^^ This!!
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Do the release, DO IT!!
Don't come and whine 3 years from now that you can't do this or that.
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sweden....
i understand your reasoning.. and i agree... theres a tradeoff no matter which option we decide on... it is not a black or white issue.... otherwise these top drs would not be doing releases... but i understand why you do not want to do it
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^^^^^^ This!!
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Do the release, DO IT!!
Don't come and whine 3 years from now that you can't do this or that.
sweden... i would never wanna take your job away
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he can post up if needed...
i do not care...
to be honest, i feel bad using him as an example... but its the truth.... he can not walk, and who knows when he can... that's all i need to hear... he is still under the care of bagirov, so i understand why he hopes for the best, and would not wanna say anything negative about him
by the way... i did not follow his advice, it is true... but why would i... he can not walk after a year... would you take swimming lessons from someone that can't swim.... his advice for ballerina was to put blocks under my heels..... pretty sure that would not have helped my ballerina
i like the guy, though again, i've never met him... and we did not speak that much.. to say he can prove what i was told.... he was not there, we never met even once... he can say what bagirov/fahri now tells him to say, but he was not there....
it all comes down to results.... the guy can't walk, and still has frames on, after almost a year, or maybe it is a year now... he can say what he wants, but he can't walk, or even stand unaided... i care about results, and when i see not just him, but others having issues long after, i start to wonder whether i should get a second opinion
it comes down to this.... i wanna see a video of him walking... i don't care about words.... he hasn't been lengthening for a while,, supposedly he's doing things correctly now, well, then let's see when these frames come off and he's walking unaided without ballerina .... its a year now....
The truth is that he gave you instructions that the doctor had given him before, instructions that he himself admitted that he didnt fully follow, which is why he had a lot of issues. I dont care about your excuses, but its important that it becomes known that you where warned and you had the knowledge, but you still ended up doing it wrong. Thats your fault, not your doctors.
The whole reason they had our friend talk to us ( i met him in person when i first visited the clinic) is because he can speak both russian and english perfectly. So if you got the info from him or the doctor himself, it doesnt matter. The doctor wanted you to speak with him, to take his advice. but you didnt.
His results are irrelevant to the discussion, he knows he didnt follow the instructions fully, but unlike you he didnt have another patient to warn him in advance, actually the fact that he didnt have good results so far should have made you even more inclined to follow the doctors instructions.
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wannabe, no offense, but i simply do care about the clinic either way... i gave the outcomes of cll patients... people can decide for themselves... you don't see me coming to your thread trying to say how bad bagirov is... you simply care about this much more than i do... I'm done with it, do not keep posting about this on my thread
he can post what he wants... he can not walk, nor can he stand unaided.... i'm from new york,okay. i care about results.... show me the results..... a guy that can not walk or stand, yet tries to extol the virtues of his dr.... i can't take it seriously... i'm sorry,thats my right... you obviously can not handle someone thinking differently than you, that's fine, but enough is enough.... i have my opinion, you have yours.... let it go brother, life goes on
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wannabe, no offense, but i simply do care about the clinic either way... i gave the outcomes of cll patients... people can decide for themselves... you don't see me coming to your thread trying to say how bad bagirov is... you simply care about this much more than i do... I'm done with it, do not keep posting about this on my thread
he can post what he wants... he can not walk, nor can he stand unaided.... i'm from new york,okay. i care about results.... show me the results..... a guy that can not walk or stand, yet tries to extol the virtues of his dr.... i can't take it seriously... i'm sorry,thats my right... you obviously can not handle someone thinking differently than you, that's fine, but enough is enough.... i have my opinion, you have yours.... let it go brother, life goes on
I dont care about the clinic, i care about future patients knowing what to expect if they decide to lengthen there. You are giving them a very misleading perspective with this diary, but i still think majority will be able to see that the clinic isnt at fault here...
You cant prevent me from posting relevant posts here. Thats what the threads are used for, its pointless for you to whine about it.
You cannot handle taking advice, even when you know that you failed with your own decisions. With that mindset it seems likely you will have many problems long after LL is over..
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wannabe, i absolutely can btw
i gave the outcomes of the 5 case studies
now our russian friend is at best an undecided case... he can not walk, nor can he stand... at best we don't know how he will be or how the drs did with him.. again, he can not walk right now, nor stand..... if you wanna spin that in a positive way, by all means
I'm going to ignore your petty remarks, as i know you're a child
again
lets lay out facts
1- russian guy- can't walk, can't stand
2- russian girl- can't walk, 2 years after surgery
3- other diary... alignment issues
4- me
5-you
80% of these cases have had serious issues, 2 very serious
and don't want to forget baku guy...
as far as being misleading, i've been very clear.... there is no lengthening with them... you get the surgery,then they kick you out... very simple.... very easy to understand.... if they now send all patients to baku, this is new, and neither of us can comment on that, as we simply do not know, as we both had the surgery,then had to leave....
now since I'm so misleading, interact with this post, and not a straw man, and point out specifically where I'm misleading people.... please, i welcome your input just this 1 time
specifically point out where i'm lying in this post or have misled... i'd like to change it if that's what i'm doing...
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wannabe, i absolutely can btw
i gave the outcomes of the 5 case studies
now our russian friend is at best an undecided case... he can not walk, nor can he stand... at best we don't know how he will be or how the drs did with him.. again, he can not walk right now, nor stand..... if you wanna spin that in a positive way, by all means
I'm going to ignore your petty remarks, as i know you're a child
again
lets lay out facts
1- russian guy- can't walk, can't stand
2- russian girl- can't walk, 2 years after surgery
3- other diary... alignment issues
4- me
5-you
80% of these cases have had serious issues, 2 very serious
and don't want to forget baku guy...
as far as being misleading, i've been very clear.... there is no lengthening with them... you get the surgery,then they kick you out... very simple.... very easy to understand.... if they now send all patients to baku, this is new, and neither of us can comment on that, as we simply do not know, as we both had the surgery,then had to leave....
now since I'm so misleading, interact with this post, and not a straw man, and point out specifically where I'm misleading people.... please, i welcome your input just this 1 time
specifically point out where i'm lying in this post or have misled... i'd like to change it if that's what i'm doing...
Im 24, i dont know how old you are but you are the one acting like a whiny child here. Tomorrow there will be some real facts posted. The russian guy even knows a website in russian where Bagirov has been praised by many clients. The russian guy did his research there before he made the decision to go to Bagirov.
http://legscorrection.ru/forum/index.php
They told you what you shouldnt do when lengthening. But since you couldnt handle it, they are considering not letting patients lengthen at home any more. In fact it seems like they already use this policy now.
The issues you have, i know for a fact its your own fault and not the doctors. You claim your only problem is ballerina feet, and the only reason you got that was because you lengthened to fast and to much, without stretching and using footholders. These are simple instructions that i know you where aware of. So it is misleading of you trying to make it sound like the clinic is at fault for your mistakes.
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so basically you're reduced to Ad hominem????? i can tell you what that means, if you'd like
real facts??? you mean, such as the russian guy not being able to walk???? that fact?
or the girl that can't walk after 2 years???
or the alignment issues???
the russian guy can post 10000 posts a day.... yet nothing will change the fact that he can not walk or stand now, a year later...
if a man that can not walk or stand a year later after surgery is the ambassador for your cause, well, good luck with that...
the undeniable fact is this.... the man you are trying to help you out here, to spread he gospel of bagirov, can not walk or stand a year after surgery... no amount of sophistry is going to change that cold hard fact... HE CAN NOT WALK, HE CAN NOT STAND UNAIDED
If someone that can not walk or stand can convince others that his drs for sure did a good job,.... not maybe did a good job, not possibly did a good job, then he needs to get a job in advertising
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so basically you're reduced to Ad hominem????? i can tell you what that means, if you'd like
real facts??? you mean, such as the russian guy not being able to walk???? that fact?
or the girl that can't walk after 2 years???
or the alignment issues???
the russian guy can post 10000 posts a day.... yet nothing will change the fact that he can not walk or stand now, a year later...
if a man that can not walk or stand a year later after surgery is the ambassador for your cause, well, good luck with that...
the undeniable fact is this.... the man you are trying to help you out here, to spread he gospel of bagirov, can not walk or stand a year after surgery... no amount of sophistry is going to change that cold hard fact... HE CAN NOT WALK, HE CAN NOT STAND UNAIDED
If someone that can not walk or stand can convince others that his drs for sure did a good job,.... not maybe did a good job, not possibly did a good job, then he needs to get a job in advertising
You have quite a big mouth for someone who can't even stand on his heels. Show some respect.
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You have quite a big mouth for someone who can't even stand on his heels. Show some respect.
:D
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so basically you're reduced to Ad hominem????? i can tell you what that means, if you'd like
real facts??? you mean, such as the russian guy not being able to walk???? that fact?
or the girl that can't walk after 2 years???
or the alignment issues???
the russian guy can post 10000 posts a day.... yet nothing will change the fact that he can not walk or stand now, a year later...
if a man that can not walk or stand a year later after surgery is the ambassador for your cause, well, good luck with that...
the undeniable fact is this.... the man you are trying to help you out here, to spread he gospel of bagirov, can not walk or stand a year after surgery... no amount of sophistry is going to change that cold hard fact... HE CAN NOT WALK, HE CAN NOT STAND UNAIDED
If someone that can not walk or stand can convince others that his drs for sure did a good job,.... not maybe did a good job, not possibly did a good job, then he needs to get a job in advertising
I know what an ad hominem is, do you realize that you come off as whiny and sensitive with pretty much every post you make in this thread, even though you are supposedly a grown adult, that just makes it even more comical.
By your logic, since you have severe ballerina and managed to get stuck in Morocco all alone, we should not listen to anything you say here.
The fact that the russian guy cannot walk, does not mean he couldnt have learned what went wrong afterwards, thats why he tried to help you not make the same mistakes, but you managed to do so anyway.
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123.... i thought you were gone??? it seems strange that almost every one of your posts is in my thread.... be honest, are you my girlfriend stalking me???? baby, is that you??? if not, get back to me about the dr when you can, thanks buddy
sweden...... how are your x legs and ballerina??? you think that will go away after you break your legs again, and stretch your tendons even more??? sounds reasonable
wannabe, again.... I'm not posting in your thread, following you.... you're following me... think about it.....
as far as me being stuck in morocco, though I'm not really stuck... but ok, should others follow what i did??? ABSOLUTELY NOT, ty for making my case, they should not do what i did, which included going to bagirov
btw, the comparison is offf... nowhere have i said, do what i did, do this, etc
nowhere have i said that anyone should go to a certain dr, or even that you should not go to a certain Dr.
but you're telling me that a man that can not stand or walk is going to come here and tell us how competent bagirov is... again, the russian guy is at best an unfinished case now... but it strains credibility to listen to a man that can't stand or walk tell us bagirov is good to go....
wannabe, stop with the posts already.... we have different opinions. it's how life is... thank you
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123.... i thought you were gone??? it seems strange that almost every one of your posts is in my thread.... be honest, are you my girlfriend stalking me???? baby, is that you??? if not, get back to me about the dr when you can, thanks buddy
sweden...... how are your x legs and ballerina??? you think that will go away after you break your legs again, and stretch your tendons even more??? sounds reasonable
wannabe, again.... I'm not posting in your thread, following you.... you're following me... think about it.....
as far as me being stuck in morocco, though I'm not really stuck... but ok, should others follow what i did??? ABSOLUTELY NOT, ty for making my case, they should not do what i did, which included going to bagirov
btw, the comparison is offf... nowhere have i said, do what i did, do this, etc
nowhere have i said that anyone should go to a certain dr, or even that you should not go a certain Dr.
but you're telling me that a man that can not stand or walk is going to come here and tell us how competent bagirov is... again, the russian guy is at best an unfinished case now... but it strains credibility to listen to a man that can't stand or walk, the tell us bagirov is good to go....
As long as you are responding, nobody is following nobody. Im not doing anything different, just responding.
The mistake wasnt going to Bagirov, i did and i have no issues. The mistake was to not follow the instructions, you are just in denial and you cant even admit that it is your own fault.
Why would someone who has had a bad result claim it was his own mistakes and not bagirovs, what would he gain from that? no reason to unbiased. He no being able to walk is completely irrelevant to the info he gave you, it doesnt diminish his credibility. If you cant see that then you are a hopeless case.
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I don't have ballerina anymore. You can get rid of yours too.
My X-legs are coming along. You should have seen them in June last year - Christ it was bad.
Dr Jamal might be able to correct my X-legs next year.
Internals will be easier to do PT with.
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wannabe, let's walk through this slowly... i'll do it in baby steps...
1- russian guy is not a dr
2- russian guy can not properly evaluate the quality of his treatment, as he is not a dr, and has not went to other drs, therefore he has nothing to to compare his current treatment to... maybe the best way to evaluate his treatment is to base it on results
3-russian guy can not stand unaided or walk a year after surgery
4-since he can not currently walk or stand, it's a bit premature for him to label his treatment as good
very simple
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I don't have ballerina anymore. You can get rid of yours too.
My X-legs are coming along. You should have seen them in June last year - Christ it was bad.
Dr Jamal might be able to correct my X-legs next year.
Internals will be easier to do PT with.
mmm.... i take back what i said... i think you'll be ok eventually... idk... ill be serious now actually... i just don't understand why you would wanna do it again, your height is fine... but i know it's your decision... i know people in sweden are tall, but you are married, etc etc... i don't know, it doesn't seem worth it, but for you, maybe it is... it will all work out eventually....
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wannabe, let's walk through this slowly... i'll do it in baby steps...
1- russian guy is not a dr
2- russian guy can not properly evaluate the quality of his treatment, as he is not a dr, and has not went to other drs, therefore he has nothing to to compare his current treatment to... maybe the best way to evaluate his treatment is to base it on results
3-russian guy can not stand unaided or walk a year after surgery
4-since he can not currently walk or stand, it's a bit premature for him to label his treatment as good
very simple
wow the stupidity...
You are not a doctor either so with your logic your evaluation of Bagirov means nothing either. You havent went to other doctors either, and you cannot walk. Regardless of what you chose to do from this point you will have problems down the line, and not just in one year, most likely permanent ones.
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............. Also, it's a cool thing to have done in life ;D
Personally I've stopped trying to understand other peoples choices. I haven't done all the best choices in life but many others have done much worse which is none of my business.
I just might try to do my upper arms for 2-3cm. That's gonna make my wingspan equal to my new height next year.
Don't take it so seriously, I'm just dreaming away now. The clock is 3 am here and it's too hot to sleep.
I'm not so sure doing upper arms is a good idea. Imagine your elbows be down at your hip ;D
Goodnight!
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one difference there.... i did not state bagirov was bad, or say don't go to him... perhaps you missed that, its understandable when you are overwhelmed with rage and fury from my posts
and btw, a little fyi, i am not a dr, but i have seen how top drs treat conditions such as these... and i can walk... i just can't turn.... but once i get a release, ill be able to do that too
as for your assertion i will have permanent issues down the line.... i see I've gotten to you.... what you say might, not likely,... but might be true if i had decided to not get second opinions....
you want to see me get permanent issues, because you think i belittle you on an anonymous message board... you know the dylan song positively 4th street....... i am in your head
dr wannabe, can you please tell me the permanent issues i will get??
be concise please... ty
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............. Also, it's a cool thing to have done in life ;D
Personally I've stopped trying to understand other peoples choices. I haven't done all the best choices in life but many others have done much worse which is none of my business.
I just might try to do my upper arms for 2-3cm. That's gonna make my wingspan equal to my new height next year.
Don't take it so seriously, I'm just dreaming away now. The clock is 3 am here and it's too hot to sleep.
I'm not so sure doing upper arms is a good idea. Imagine your elbows be down at your hip ;D
Goodnight!
goodnight.... you'll be fine
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one difference there.... i did not state bagirov was bad, or say don't go to him... perhaps you missed that, its understandable when you are overwhelmed with rage and fury from my posts
and btw, a little fyi, i am not a dr, but i have seen how top drs treat conditions such as these... and i can walk... i just can't turn.... but once i get a release, ill be able to do that too
as for your assertion i will have permanent issues down the line.... i see I've gotten to you.... what you say might, not likely,... but might be true if i had decided to not get second opinions....
you want to see me get permanent issues, because you think i belittle you on an anonymous message board... you know the dylan song positively 4th street....... i am in your head
dr wannabe, can you please tell me the permanent issues i will get??
be concise please... ty
You said it was a mistake going to Bagirov. And you claim they are partly to blame for your problems. However we can dismiss all of that which you are saying since you have severe ballerina. Thats what you are doing in regards to the russian guy, who btw can walk, if what you can do now (as you have described it) qualifies as walking then he is in a better shape than you are. You both need aid to walk. No difference there.
And im hardly angry, its 3 am and i have nothing better to do right now, i dont care about your results, Its quite hilarious the childlike reasoning you have. The only reason im still here refuting you is because your diary could affect others decisions.
Its more than likely to happen to you if you get a release. In fact since you lengthened 8 cm and at a fast speed you are likely to have some issues permanently regardless if you do a release or not. But if i actually cared enough to want you to ruin your own body i wouldnt have given you any advice here from the start.
I dont see how you could belittle me when you are the one in the embarrassing condition. I dont care about your opinion.
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well... mistake.... hmmmmm, in the long run, it won't matter but short term, probably... i guess that's a fair statement... again, its not a universal statement though
i can do more than russian guy now actually... as far as flexibility... though I've lengthened almost twice the amount he has, and had surgery 7 months after him....
refuting... hmmm.... we must have a different definition of refutation, but ok:)
again, you state I'm likely to have some permanent issues... we'll, how about backing up that statement
you obviously care about my opinion... otherwise you wouldn't be replying to my every word... and its been all day, not just now..... that you say you don't care shows how much you really do care....
btw, i had surgery in early april... I've lengthened slightly below 8 cm... comes out to around a little less than 2 cm a month... which means less than 1mm a day
wannabe, go to sleep...
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well... mistake.... hmmmmm, in the long run, it won't matter but short term, probably... i guess that's a fair statement... again, its not a universal statement though
i can do more than russian guy now actually... as far as flexibility... though I've lengthened almost twice the amount he has, and had surgery 7 months after him....
refuting... hmmm.... we must have a different definition of refutation, but ok:)
again, you state I'm likely to have some permanent issues... we'll, how about backing up that statement
you obviously care about my opinion... otherwise you wouldn't be replying to my every word... and its been all day, not just now..... that you say you don't care shows how much you really do care....
btw, i had surgery in early april... I've lengthened slightly below 8 cm... comes out to around a little less than 2 cm a month... which means less than 1mm a day
wannabe, go to sleep...
Im in my house and on my computer most of the day until im done with LL. And it doesnt take long to write a response because you are repeating yourself with the same stupid arguments every time.
I already said i care about how it affects other future patients. Why in the world would i care about your result? lmfao dont flatter yourself, i dont care about you or your legs. You will do what want to do with your legs regardless of the advice you get, not like i can affect that. I can affect what others think by refuting your excuses as to why you ended up in this sad state.
Your problems will matter long term. be in denial all you want. Getting a release has long term/permanent negative effects. Lengthening 8 cm and at faster than recommended speed also, if you get nails you will get other additional problems. Plates are largely unknown how they will affect you long term.
He has as much flexibility as you if not more so. he has ballerina in one foot. You have in both and its more severe, as you said yourself it was extreme. And you have the choice of doing pt (which will be better long term but 7 months from now you will likely still have problems with it) or you can do the lazy and easy way and doing a release which will instead have a permanent effect on your tendon strength.
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wannabe,
you do realize that when i say do not reply... or go to sleep.... i know you will reply... i mean, you must have figured this out by now... ever hear the song... I'm your puppet.... great song btw, anyway
nails... who cares,I'm not getting nails.... getting a release, well, don't get me wrong wannabe, i don't doubt your medical qualifications, but perhaps we can see some statistics on cll patients that get releases... plates do not cause knee issues... I've been explicitly told this by more than 1 top dr
as far as him having more flexibility.... you are simply arguing to argue... i can right now, while having ballerina, and 7 months less time to consolidate, squat,etc.... though again, i can't be sure at this moment how flexible he is.... unlike yourself... i'm not all knowing
again wannabe, maybe I'm in denial.. its possible... but you don't seem to have articulated what my future permanent problems will be??? id be in a better position to reply if you actually stated what my long term issues will be... i don't mean to denigrate your obviously vast knowledge of medical knowledge... god forbid... id just like you to enlighten us with some of your wisdom
wannabe, if i'm stupid, as you put it, then what word describes the person that engages in pointless back and forth with said stupid person?
think deeply about this... breathe in and out.... you care far too much about what i think or post.... you're thinking way too much about me... in a way it's flattering, but also a bit creepy .. ......
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Ballerina is very individual by the way! I've lengthened more than 7cm and I had no signs of it, while there was a guy, who lengthened like 3 cm and had a very bad ballerina already. He also couldn't straigthen his legs.
I believe you should try doing PT like 2 hours a day before going for a release surgery. Do it for a few weeks, see if it has any results, and if not...
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wannabe,
you do realize that when i say do not reply... or go to sleep.... i know you will reply... i mean, you must have figured this out by now... ever hear the song... I'm your puppet.... great song btw, anyway
nails... who cares,I'm not getting nails.... getting a release, well, don't get me wrong wannabe, i don't doubt your medical qualifications, but perhaps we can see some statistics on cll patients that get releases... plates do not cause knee issues... I've been explicitly told this by more than 1 top dr
as far as him having more flexibility.... you are simply arguing to argue... i can right now, while having ballerina, and 7 months less time to consolidate, squat,etc.... though again, i can't be sure at this moment how flexible he is.... unlike yourself... i'm not all knowing
again wannabe, maybe I'm in denial.. its possible... but you don't seem to have articulated what my future permanent problems will be??? id be in a better position to reply if you actually stated what my long term issues will be... i don't mean to denigrate your obviously vast knowledge of medical knowledge... god forbid... id just like you to enlighten us with some of your wisdom
wannabe, if i'm stupid, as you put it, then what word describes the person that engages in pointless back and forth with said stupid person?
think deeply about this... breathe in and out.... you care far too much about what i think or post.... you're thinking way too much about me... in a way it's flattering, but also a bit creepy .. ......
Crimson i know its hard for you to understand this simple fact..but there is a reason nobody cares about you and that you are alone in this situation.
im sorry i hurt your sensitive feelings, not my intention. I just want other people to know that things like releases and lengthening 8 cm with very little stretching and expecting things to work out is stupid, and completely unrealistic.
Now i know you desperately want someone to care about you which is why you are making silly statements like that. You can believe what you want, if it makes you stop whining. Its definitely creepy though the way you try to convince yourself of things that are completely untrue.
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Hi everyone. I see you guys are in a sort of a dispute here.
I'm that "Russian guy" who you are talking about, in person. :) 8)
I'd like to explain my point of view.
As for the clinic, I can quote you hundrends of positive comments on Russian boards about the clinic. Let me know if it's needed, you can use any web page translator.
As for my own case, I've never blamed Bagoriv about it, like 99% of cases I've seen are similar to Wannabegiant's case, of course there are always some people who are a bit unlucky, but the contract people sign with the clinic clearly states: it's a risky surgery and there is a change you could have some complications.
So, yes, it's been since September, I've lengthened some 4,5-4,7cm (different on each legs, since they were not of the same length ;) ) and I still have some problems to walk on one leg, the right one, due to ballerina problems. I've also had a severe infection about a month after the surgery, which of course slowed down the process, but can I blame anybody apart from me about it?
Also different people have different bone consolidation speed ... I've been practicing a lot of sports, healthy life, no smoking, no alcohol ... so I expected to be done by March ... and I'm still waiting to remove at least one of the frames. But again, I'm not blaming anyone apart from bad luck, in fact not even myself, cause I've been doing my best do recover asap.
As for Crimsontide's case, I've offered all sort of advise since the very beginning, we've also had a couple of Skype conversations and some written chat. I've explained the same stuff to Wannabegiant and Crimsontide and as far as I know clinic's assistant Anna had also been in contact with Crimsontide.
I'd say pretty much anyone would know doing more than 4-5cm is risky, you can read that on every forum and personally I've said that personally to you when you said you're up for 8cm ... I've said even 7cm is a lot, so I wouldn't go for 8cm. I've also said you should bend smth soft under the heel, so that you can keep walkig even with a ballerina problem. It's important to keep walking somehow. That was like 2 months ago, I wonder if you did that.
Another thing is that, as I have mentioned in multiple occasions, doing the tendon surgery is not recommended by Bagirov, at least this is the last thing he told me about it. So if there are complications after the surgery, he of course won't be responsible for them
Crimsontide, you are not in a good situation now, but this is a risk we all took, so we should be strong and try to overcome it. If you have any questions, let Anna, Bagirov or even me (although I'm just another patient) know. In fact Bagirov said he could even offer some free days in the clinic, just come for a review, cause he really needs to see you, and fix things with your frames.
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Russian Guy, why do you think you still have ballerina and trouble walking? You lengthened so little, and it's been a really long time since your surgery. Did you have really tight Achilles tendons? Did you lengthen too fast? Or is it something else?
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Hey OP, hope the operations have gone well. Have you had any complications with your surgery or anything that's gone wrong? I'm relatively new to this forum and looking to lengthen 6-7cm, hopefully in just 1 operation.
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How much did you stand up or do PT while lengthening 4+cm?
You should really have recovered much better by now. It can't all be genetics.
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Hi crisom,
How are you doing?
cheers paco.
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Hey man!
Saw you online several days ago. I'm hoping that you're are feeling much better.
Keep us updated.
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ry guys?:)))
yes, I'm ok, just felt no need to post... I saw dr rozbruch in new york, and he did x rays
I think i can email him to get them to show you guys???
basically, he was shocked that my bones are healing so well, and that i did not have major complications, other than the equines
he was not a fan of my frames though... everyone that saw me at his clinic asked me where i had gotten them, as they had never seen frames so tight..... the nail outside my leg was very crooked as well, but the bone inside was not... he could only see how much i lengthened on left leg, which was 7.4 cm... other than the equinus, and not nice looking pin sites, no other issues... he even said i could take off frames in 8 weeks possibly... he said the bone was healing well, and lengthening looked ok... to me this just shows that walking is overrated... i have literally not walked in almost 2 months, so if anyone should have awful bone consolidation, it should be me
the equinus was bad though... gonna get it fixed through surgery this week... will also get frames removed and plates put in... can't deal with the pins, especially at the the ankle area... gonna have some not nice scars because of these frame but not a big deal to me
but yeah, I'm ok....
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i also don't want to make a big deal about this... but
i appreciate russian guys offer, he's a good person... i just think he'd be better off possibly getting a second opinion... like sweden said.... its been a really long time, it can not be all genetics... if you notice, these frames cause issues for everyone it seems at the ankles... luckily mine is just equinus, and nothing else.... i probably won't be active much, but ill stop by pretty regularly for short periods.... i basically know that my only issue now is the equinus, which I'm thankful for... i was thinking that it could be much wore, but isn't...... unlike russian guy, i can not stay like this over a year and hope for the best.... there comes a time when surgery is a better option than pt and hoping it gets better down the line... I'm willing to risk losing a little strength if i can put my feet on the ground now and walk.... i can not be here year later posting that i still have equinus
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Glad to hear you are doing better and I'm sure you are in good hands now.
Would be really interested in your X-rays!
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ty 123
ill try to get them to show... you will see how crooked the nail is, but luckily,my leg is straight
my bones have healed so well, i might be able to get frames removed right now, and have a cast on legs for month or 2, without any nailing our plating
i guess healing is really down to your genetics, as far as bones go... ill have frames off before many others, and i lengthened over 7 cm... i mean, were talking around 1 month or less for each cm.... and i haven't walked at all in 2 months almost...
I'm convinced though that the reason others don't heal so well are the long times in frames... the frames are simply too small...
mine are 120, and i was told this size is for a child, that they should be at least 160... but i don't wanna start arguing about this... people can make their own decisions...
btw... regarding the surgery for equinus.... I've had 2 drs now tell me this needs to be fixed by surgery... one said its possible that eventually i could get this resolved by pt, but he still recommended surgery... the other dr said that i 100% need surgery and that id never be normal be again without it.... but ill be done with it soon.... i wish everyone a healthy recovery, and i suggest anyone that's having issues with their dr to at least get a second opinion.... to me this is just being smart, but i understand others might have a different opinion
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Maybe they made some mistakes with your frames in russia and because of that you need surgery, sad to hear, because this is avoidable, but i guess you were just unlucky. And bone healing is mostly genetics and nutrition, so you've gotten at least lucky in that department :D
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Thank God, you are well.
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ty..
don't be sorry, ill be ok for sure, but was a bit lucky
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and to remember how depressed you were, great to see you doing fine
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Glad you've got everything sorted and it looks like there's light at the end of the tunnel after all you've faced
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ty
kilo, u in mumbai now?
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Yep, staying here for a little over a month longer.
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frames are partly off, rest removed soon
i feel so much better already without the pin pain in ankles
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Cris, the frames aren't that good? Is there anything u could do to prevent equinus(its ballerina I suppose)?
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i suppose you could, it might be possible if you kept your feet vertical 24 hours a day... but it can get difficult.... the pins in the ankles were killing me,and it feels so much better just having them removed...
the frames... well, the problem is they're too small, look at the photos i posted in this thread... they are very tight... the fixator actually hugged my leg at certain points... people disagree with me, but if you want my opinion on avoiding equinus while doing over 5 cm on tibia... get a release beforehand as a precaution.... pretty much every dr says the loss of strength is minimal... unless you're an elite athlete, you will most likely not notice a difference
another thing... i was instructed to never get the frames wet.... so was difficult to take showers.... dr rozbruch told me the exact opposite.... i get in the shower, its good he said... he said to just not go in salt water or a bath, the latter because of dirty water
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had frames removed and equinus corrected by dr shah... i had consultations and x rays done with various drs,such as rozbruch just to make sure bone was ok, and to get their opinions on releases,etc
i now have full leg cast on, and foot is fixed at neutral position...
the left leg turned out to be not as consolidated as right, so ill wear this a month or 2... the left is ok, just not as good as right... for some reason a different incision technique was used on each leg which caused the difference... I'm guessing because bagirov did 1 leg and his assistant the other.... dr says i should be walking in 1.5 to 2 months fine without walker,though will wear pt braces after cast comes off. considering i lengthened around 7.5 cm, this seems to be very good
even though my legs are in cast, it's a huge relief from having the fixators on.... the pain i was getting, especially at the ankles from the pins was getting to be extreme.
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9 cm is such a great amount of lengthening. Congrats. We would love to see some pictures of your legs :)
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ty... only did around 7.4 cm though
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ty... only did around 7.4 cm though
I am sorry I confused you, and its not only Mann!! Its 7.4 cm wow, how are the frames, how do you find the doctor? :)
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he's good... no frames now, all off... life in frames is awful, or was at the end... the pain fro the wires in the ankles was too much
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That sounds unreal to me tbh: 2 extra months just because a different incision was made?
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the left leg is healing ok, but the right is better... supposedly because of technique used, not really extra 2 months, but i can't walk without walker for another 1.5 to 2 months because of it
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my right leg is healed completely... i almost width i did more than 7.5.... but i guess its best not to do too much
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Hey, glad to hear you are doing fine! Could you show the x-rays? Would like to see how your bone looks like!
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123,
will try to get.. my right leg is already 100%, left maybe 50%
i didn't get plating, but casts on legs now... i feel great today for the first time.... the whole time i was in frames i could not lift legs, but i can now... swelling has gone down, and equines is gone
everything was fine until i just received a text from an ex? of my moroccan gf, i guess its her new bf again
my ex's bf text me out of n where and starts joking about me being a midget , breaking my legs to be taller, and how my body is deformed>
i guess she told him.... made me a bit down that shed do that to me... its my most closely guarded secret... and i never revealed any of her photos or close secrets to anyone, so not sure why shed wanna just hurt me.. but it's life
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my ex's bf text me out of n where and starts joking about me being a midget , breaking my legs to be taller, and how my body is deformed>
i guess she told him.... made me a bit down that shed do that to me... its my most closely guarded secret... and i never revealed any of her photos or close secrets to anyone, so not sure why shed wanna just hurt me.. but it's life
Dude, what the hell. Just ignore the tard and forget about the slut. Seriously, that's not worth of worrying!
Oh and... now it's a good time to show us her nudes! xDDDD
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:)))
i think i might be 175 or so now... not sure... definitely have to hit gym... i think eating everything in sight was good for bone growth
my ankles were so sore the day after equinus surgery with lots of swelling.... feel very very good today, can walk
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What have you been eating at Dr Shah's?
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oh i don't count that... i meant during lengthening
you can't eat meat inside dr shahs clinic... I've been ordering rice, curry,pizza,etc every day
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oh i don't count that... i meant during lengthening
you can't eat meat inside dr shahs clinic... I've been ordering rice, curry,pizza,etc every day
Oh really? Maybe it's a rule of the building they're in or something, like how they don't let you wear shoes in there, too.
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no... it's from dr shah.... he's strictly vegetarian
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123,
i'll get x rays up i a week or so... internet here is very slow... you'll be able to see the regeneration, the awful ballerina before correction, and also the crooked nail!
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So are you in a wheelchair with your legs up atm? When you upload a picture of your xrays, can you upload a picture of your cast as well. Very curious. So are you still in India? If so how long do you intend on staying?
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123,
i'll get x rays up i a week or so... internet here is very slow... you'll be able to see the regeneration, the awful ballerina before correction, and also the crooked nail!
Nice :)
Damm, it seems they made some mistakes :/. Sorry to hear!
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put her nked photos on your facebook. but set it to private so only you, her, and the new boyfriend can see them.
then type a message under it. that you may start adding family members to the list of who can see them :)
that way you don't ever have to show anyone the photos however she will always freak out that they are on facebook :) hehehe
and you keep all the leverage for them shutting up from now on.
don't forget to back up the photos after doing this though lol :)
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Excuse me , but where can I find your diary ? I'm sorry I'm new on this blog :-\ :-\
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what happened with him anyone?
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It's not that bad though. I've got maybe 80-90% of my previous agility.
And this is how long after your surgery???
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minimal pain now after wound sites cleaned and started oral anti
they shd have started earlier
which is the American protocol
thank god but I would not reconsider LL even if I had such pains
and I feel better and fever goes down
new worry now is pin site broke after a 2 hours walk....
does anyone has experience of creaking sounds when you move your leg
dr said it is normal and no need xray, he says it is normal at 1 cm..
before that I do not experience any sound!
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are you referring to creaking sounds with the device?
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inside my bone..
doc says maybe i broke a pin maybe not becuse walk too fast in moscow traffic
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itsmylife... sorry to hear that...
but need to be writing these issues on your own diary
for some advice, insist on x rays... no reason not to get one
since you seem so concerned about me.... ill have final x rays jan 8th, last ones were ok. i have no frames on, no cast, walking very slowly but will start physical therapy soon for about 4 weeks, and should be gtg
i have zero pain, look ok i guess, just some scars, recovering still from the achilles surgery,etc... but no pain now, not even a little
your life is going to suck for the next 12 months..... just admit that to yourself, and you'll be fine
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just an update
i had achilles surger a few months to correct surgery
well, healing on left leg is ok i guess... it was my bad leg
but i have somewhat bad news
i had the surgery, then had casts put on because of the achilles... thought the cast would keep leg in place
well, my right leg which was healed, is straight, but my left leg is not
i have decided i should take care of this asap... not wait
i guess it means a fixator on left leg for 2 or 3 months, though since im not lengthening, i dont think the process should be that bad... and its only on one leg
im bummed out by this.. my ballerina was extremely bad, but having to do this is going to prolong my recovery a bit
i was going to get x rays done on the 8th, which i will, but i can see with my eyes how bent it is,,,
ugh... im naturally a bit down, but i guess it could be worse..... and unlike rgkey, i will fix it now
im just wondering how long it takes to fix alignment issues...
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Hi crisomtide:
Thank you for your update.
Sorry for your bent leg. you think it would be better with intramedullary nail.
cheers paco.
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and since it was dr shas idea to put casts on... instead of plating... i expect not to have to pay to get this done
i'll let everyone know how it goes
it sux i gotta wear a frame for like 2 or 3 months, but whatever, only 1 leg... ill live
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paco,
yes... but if i wouldve kept frames on longer, maybe just 2 months more, it wouldve been fine
the only reason i was going to have a nail was that i had achilles surgery and left leg wasnt fully healed... right leg healed very quickly
but the dr suggested weareing a full leg cast instead, without plating
i agreed... he said it would be ok
well.... it aint.... its obviously bent... no pain or anything, but i need to take care of it
im assuming the only way to resolve it is by wearing a fixator on left leg for maybe 3 months
cant say im too happy about this, but its life... and could be worse.... ill heal quickly, as im not lengthening.... its just a bit annoying
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you have to be ostimistic.
Where do you do your surgery to fix your bent leg?
i'm planing my surgery with doctor salameh but my concern is about this. My fear is to bend leg or lose height without intramedullery nail.
Very,very good luck with your recovery.
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dont worry about height loss
but bent leg... yes
but truthfully, u just wear the fixator for like over 12 months, will be ok... but its torture
im not sure where ill get it... my feeling is dr shah should do it... as its his fault... but we will see
im just wonering how long ill have to have this thing on
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This surgery for lengthenig looks like very hard
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well...
thats what wveryone says
its derfinitely harder than just realignment.... what makes lenghening hard is the tissue stretching
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how much did you lengthening? i think 7cm
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Hey crimsontide . Hope you get better. You know who i am . We talked by skype some times.Get It done and be patient
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for lengthening 5 or 5,5cm you would recomend only external or LON.
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yes... im not gonna wait
gotta get it done
i did 7.5
ty kirk
paco... yes, or 6 maybe... but if ur very short... i understand the desire to do more
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How do you feel about your proportions now that you've added 7.5CM to your tibiae?
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oh... thats fine
i just hate my bent left leg:)
sux i gotta rebreak it
but everything else is ok
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That's good to hear. Bent legs can be fixed, but too long legs are very hard to change. Good luck with your correction procedure! Can you get the leg realigned and then plated in the proport position right away, to save you from having to wear the gram for more months?
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ty talleer
honestly... i was quite depressed today... but after talking to a few people,such as yourself... while i did make an error by taking frames off too soon
everyone says its not that big of a deal long term... it can be corrected, and mush less time to heal than lengthening
i could probably get it fxed right away... but that means another surgery down the road to remove
id rather live with left leg frame for 2 months than have plates or nails
i just showed someone on skype my leg... they said its not even so bad
but i gotta get t fixed
im tempted to lengthen 2 more cm tbh since i gotta get it broken anyway... but ill resist that urge
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dr got back to me quickly... he said he suspected this might occur...and will fix it
ill be in frames maybe 2.5 months... but only 1 leg... which i can deal with
im not so upset by this tbh.. i couldve had more serious things happen, such as non union
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so I saw dr rozbruch yesterday, had x rays done
it confirmed what I thought... that my right leg healed perfectly, and remarkably quickly... in 4 months after 7.5 cm, my right leg healed
but my left leg is definitely deformed.... knock kneed... 22 degrees, etc... it's really noticeable in the x rays... its almost definitely causing my slight foot numbness, they said... as it does not appear to have nerve damage at all, and blood flow down there is also fine... rozbruch saw my achilles scar on the right leg, seemed to think dr shah did a good job
i now have 10 degrees dorsiflexion of both ankles also.... i do notice my ankles are tired and stiff today after walking yesterday... he did write me a prescription for pt
He did say I need to get the left leg fixed soon... I can wait maybe 2 months to do this, but not a year....It's easily fixable, will take around 3 weeks if I choose external... but has to be fixed.... I'd be walking perfectly now if It weren't for my left leg.... The bone in both has already healed, so I can put weight on it until the surgery
It's also caused my left to be almost a cm shorter... but in surgery, would be fixed... my knee, ankle, etc are nowhere near where they should because of the knock knee deformity
He showed me the fixtor he would use... It's only 2 rings, very manageable....The other option is to fix it acutely, which would mean a rod in my my knee/leg that would be taken out in say 9 months
I think I will choose the fixator,but comments are welcomed
I contacted dr shah, he said he would 3 rings... which I don't want at all.... I'm just waiting for the price of this surgery from dr rozbruch.. if it's too much, and I have to pay all of it, I might be forced to go elsewhere, which I do not want... Dr Rozbruch is in ny, works at the hss, which is the best hospital in the nation for these kinds of things, and he's actually easy to get along with... He has a personality, unlike most other American doctors... He's a decent person...
If I have to go to india, etc... I'll try to get best price, but I think Parihar, maybe Dhawan(sp?) are my options, as they use the hexapod... and I just saw the hexapod thanks to kilokahn's thread...
The hexapod is pretty much the taylor spatial frame, exactly the same frame Dr Rozbruch would use.... which is very very manageable..... and advanced...A computer spits out the corrections you need....
I do not want something larger at this stage...
My scars are blah, but can be fixed, I'm guessing even my achilles ones, but not a concern for me now... I can be cured and walking normally with perfect alignment 6 walks after surgery, and am looking forward to getting this journey finished
As an aside, I suggest rgkey fixes his leg too... Dr Rozbruch said these issues will cause problems in the future if not corrected... and he meant even a year's wait would be too long
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Also...
to be 100% clear...
i have slight numbness on the outside of my left foot... the top of my foot, sole are ok... All my toes move fine, and even on the outside of my left foot, it doesnt start until near the rear.. but im guessing its sural damage from the achilles surgery
Supposedly this is solely a sensory nerve, does not impact function, and it will perhaps go away soon, but it's there
So there's a negative for dr shah
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Though its a weird type of numbness... its a very tiny area, and if i simply glide my fingers over it, it feels almost normal, but if I put pressure on it, it feels a bit different
That might mean its gonna get even better, a minor thing that will heal soon... and also once i get left leg realigned, that might fix it as well
I'm guessing it goes away... But you guys want every tiny detail... so there you go
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decided on going with rozbruch, even though I have to get a different insurance and pay a higer premium... should have done it earlier tbh
I'm in nyc, rozbruch is the best, and he's actually a decent person... I wanna make sure I have 100% function in the future, and eel more confident going with dr rozbruch
Also, the taylor spatial frame used is actually consoderably more advanced... I only need 2 rings for correction... every other dr said at least 3, possibly 4...
Here is my advice for future llers... Even though I had a decent/good result, and will have 95-100% function, I would not recommend going out of europe/ usa for this procedure
I know that for many of you, this means you would not be able to afford it, but it's my current view...
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decided on going with rozbruch, even though I have to get a different insurance and pay a higer premium... should have done it earlier tbh
I'm in nyc, rozbruch is the best, and he's actually a decent person... I wanna make sure I have 100% function in the future, and eel more confident going with dr rozbruch
Also, the taylor spatial frame used is actually consoderably more advanced... I only need 2 rings for correction... every other dr said at least 3, possibly 4...
Here is my advice for future llers... Even though I had a decent/good result, and will have 95-100% function, I would not recommend going out of europe/ usa for this procedure
I know that for many of you, this means you would not be able to afford it, but it's my current view...
Yeah, that's exactly why doing LL in India or Russia is dumb. Ilizarov-frames aren't being used for over 10+years in first world countries, because the Taylor-Spatial-Frame is far superior.
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decided on going with rozbruch, even though I have to get a different insurance and pay a higer premium... should have done it earlier tbh
I'm in nyc, rozbruch is the best, and he's actually a decent person... I wanna make sure I have 100% function in the future, and eel more confident going with dr rozbruch
Also, the taylor spatial frame used is actually consoderably more advanced... I only need 2 rings for correction... every other dr said at least 3, possibly 4...
Here is my advice for future llers... Even though I had a decent/good result, and will have 95-100% function, I would not recommend going out of europe/ usa for this procedure
I know that for many of you, this means you would not be able to afford it, but it's my current view...
I agree.. the standard of care is better in Singapore/usa/Europe/the more advanced countries like korea.
but whilst Singapore is well known for its medical standards, I am just not sure about the limb lengthening (just as korea is better for cosmetic surgery than SG)
at this point of time, I do not regret going out of SG to do surgery.
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also want to point out something
while ill be ok even though i went out of the states for surgery... it was still a bad idea... I got lucky...
i had bad equinus, infections, swollen ankles, bent leg,etc
I was lucky.... others are not so lucky... if you decide to do it in russia or india,etc... you might not be as lucky
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also want to point out something
while ill be ok even though i went out of the states for surgery... it was still a bad idea... I got lucky...
i had bad equinus, infections, swollen ankles, bent leg,etc
I was lucky.... others are not so lucky... if you decide to do it in russia or india,etc... you might not be as lucky
were u infected?
luckily I do not have equinus or bent leg.. or swollen ankle
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minor pin site infections, nothing serious
equinus was fixed acutely... no more swollen ankles because of it
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minor pin site infections, nothing serious
equinus was fixed acutely... no more swollen ankles because of it
thanks.. anyway i am lengthening faster than u.... 8 dec till now i did 3 cm.. so i will have to slow down... to avoid complications
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I'm planning for Dr. Bagirov this year (2015) , I hope the price doesn't differ from 6500 euro too much. I'm thinking of 7.5 Cm or less because im only 163 Cm tall and it makes me feel bad everyday. I had studied LL for a year now and it's the money that's holding me back but now I think I'm ready. Is someone else going for Dr. Bagirov?
I'd just E'mailed Anna today hoping for a response .
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to those comparing external vs internal vs lon,heres some info
my knees do not hurt... but i did external, and i just tried an exercise where i had to stretch by putting one knee on the ground, and stretch out the other leg
this was on a hardwood floor... i wasnt in pain, but it definitely was not comfortable... i think ll in general makes your lower limbs more sensitive
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tried to post video yesterday
i woke up todaf exercising yesterday... veryhumid today... and i feel like im 100 years old when i had to get up and walk
forget my left leg alignment issue for a second
my feet/ankles just feel very very achey.... wouldnt classify it as pain, but sore and achey
its depressing tbh.....i dont have equinus anymore... if i do, its extremely minor... yet my feet feel like
if it doesnt get better, i cant say dont get surgery... being short sux.... and it does take more than 12 months to get better from 7.5 cm tibia lengthening
feeling this way really really sux though.... and x rays show my feet/ankle to be normal... but its like im an old man impacted by weather,exercise
i guess i should do more pt, but others that did little feel fine... of course after many years
hoping this gets better.... feel like sweden
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just went over swedens diary
and fro my own experience... and rgkey, and friend in russia.... not ure about medium drink of water, as that part of his diary isnt up yet
but this whole thing looks like it takes up to 2 years to get fully normal
if you look at swden... he had surgery june 2013... in almost may of 2014, he posted he was about 55% better
last post in his diary was feb 2015 and he seems much better, but thats over 2 years
rgkey is i think 18 months out, not 100% yet...im 12 months out.... russian friend took at least 15-16 months just to walk normally and hs not 100% now at 17 months... kilokahn will likely take a year just to walk unaided
i hope people read this and have realistic expectations......... lengthening over 6 cm, around 7 cm... but even less sometimes, means you will most likely need 24 months or so to get back to whatever your maximum is going to be
don't try to fool yourself
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just went over swedens diary
and fro my own experience... and rgkey, and friend in russia.... not ure about medium drink of water, as that part of his diary isnt up yet
but this whole thing looks like it takes up to 2 years to get fully normal
if you look at swden... he had surgery june 2013... in almost may of 2014, he posted he was about 55% better
last post in his diary was feb 2015 and he seems much better, but thats over 2 years
rgkey is i think 18 months out, not 100% yet...im 12 months out.... russian friend took at least 15-16 months just to walk normally and hs not 100% now at 17 months... kilokahn will likely take a year just to walk unaided
i hope people read this and have realistic expectations......... lengthening over 6 cm, around 7 cm... but even less sometimes, means you will most likely need 24 months or so to get back to whatever your maximum is going to be
don't try to fool yourself
Lengthening is a long process and takes a year and sometimes more to restore completely. People do sports after lengthening and until now none of our patients complained of pain. In our clinic the doctors see patients daily and if necessary, make all corrections needed. Though it may happen so that a patient doesn't follow the doctor's advice and gets a complication, such as contracture of the Achilles tendon.
It's possible to do sports 6 months after consolidation is over and the patient leaves the hospital.
I got this answer when i asked! what should i think about it?! i even asked if i could be 100% after the LL operation!
I asked Dr.Barinov
But then again i only thinkinb about do 4,5cm - 5cm! and not a mm more!
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its not pain thats the issue
i cant say im ever in pain
it just takes forever to heal... i was reading sweden's diary just now... a year from surgery he said was 35% recovered
35%! hes now at 82% but this is now over 2 years
im probably at 40% healed... once my left leg is fixed, might jump up to 60 or more,idk yet
would like to know how well medium was doing 12 to 24 months from surgery
this takes forever... trust me...and contractures are possible no matter what
as faer as sports or 100% recovery... sports is definitley possible
i do not believe anyone recovers 100%... especially if you lengthen over 6 cm
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its not pain thats the issue
i cant say im ever in pain
it just takes forever to heal... i was reading sweden's diary just now... a year from surgery he said was 35% recovered
35%! hes now at 82% but this is now over 2 years
im probably at 40% healed... once my left leg is fixed, might jump up to 60 or more,idk yet
would like to know how well medium was doing 12 to 24 months from surgery
this takes forever... trust me...and contractures are possible no matter what
as faer as sports or 100% recovery... sports is definitley possible
i do not believe anyone recovers 100%... especially if you lengthen over 6 cm
But if you stay under 6cm or exactely at 6cm you think 100% recover is a possibility?
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no, i dont
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no, i dont
All i needed to hear to stay away from this ^^! tho i read in this forum you could buy some vitamine?! to not loss your morning hight? do you know what that is all about?! if so i can still be 182/183cm the whole day:)! instead of 180,5/181cm!
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would never think about this surgery if youre 180 cm
i was under 170
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would never think about this surgery if youre 180 cm
i was under 170
Yeah you scared me of there! i mean to be 182/183cm on the morning and 181cm the day and 181/180,5cm on the night isnt that bad!
But i read on this forum about something you could take some vitamines or what it was that prevent you from shrink your morning high? or is that just bull ?! do you allways shrink that 1-2cm?! even with "that"
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Yeah you scared me of there! i mean to be 182/183cm on the morning and 181cm the day and 181/180,5cm on the night isnt that bad!
But i read on this forum about something you could take some vitamines or what it was that prevent you from shrink your morning high? or is that just bullcrap?! do you allways shrink that 1-2cm?! even with "that"
You probably mean glucosamine, it is proven that it reduces the shrinking during the day. The data I read didn't show anything above a cm, you'll most likely gain 3-8mm's If I remember the numbers correctly.
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You probably mean glucosamine, it is proven that it reduces the shrinking during the day. The data I read didn't show anything above a cm, you'll most likely gain 3-8mm's If I remember the numbers correctly.
Well 8mm! is good enough ;)! ill think ill go with that anway! not worth to loss my 100% ability not now anyhow:)! maybe when i hit 30! and i'm out of my prime in fighting! ill do it!
Thank you man!
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Well 8mm! is good enough ;)! ill think ill go with that crap anway! not worth to loss my 100% ability not now anyhow:)! maybe when i hit 30! and i'm out of my prime in fighting! ill do it!
Thank you man!
you won't feel any difference, 8 mm is hardly noticeable, with glucosamine and daily routine stretching you can gain 0.5-1cm, but no more
If i were you i would do ll now, the younger you are, the better you recover, 30 years old is not too old, but if i were you i would do it now to put all chances on your side ;)
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abo, i would like to know how tall you are, exactly in the morning, and how tall you are at night?
If you are 180.5 cm at night, i guess you'are 182.3-182.5 cm in the morning, most people shrink 1.8-2cm from morning to night.
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abo, i would like to know how tall you are, exactly in the morning, and how tall you are at night?
If you are 180.5 cm at night, i guess you'are 182.3-182.5 cm in the morning, most people shrink 1.8-2cm from morning to night.
Yeah you prett much hitted it! i maybe missed it the time i did the lenght check in the morning! but all mornings from now i'm 182+ and 181cm during the first 8-10h of the day! then i go to be like 180,8 or 180,5cm!
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Well i won't risk to not get 100% back! wich seems impossioble! so not worth it ;p! and beside ppl have claimed they have gain 1inch and 1/4 by using that stuff and doing stretching ;)! who knows! maybe ill do it to ^^!
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youre not gaining no inch by stretching
you wanna get taller and youre past puberty... ll is pretty much the only option
it just takes a while to recover but it happens
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youre not gaining no inch by stretching
you wanna get taller and youre past puberty... ll is pretty much the only option
it just takes a while to recover but it happens
Well i still grow some mm! ;)! havent stop growth completely yet! think a few mm in 2 years
what about this guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Rainer
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Well i still grow some mm! ;)! havent stop growth completely yet! think a few mm in 2 years
what about this guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Rainer
That's what I thought but the harsch truth is that very few grow past 18. Don't expect anything at all.
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ll is worth it
sux being short... but the recovery is a very long process... i just read a diary by a guy called bodybuilder
had achilles surgery like me... 10 months post achilles surgery, he still crouched when walking
he posted an update 2 years after... said hes fine now, but im not sure how it took him... he didnt update the diary for a while
so 2 yeas after surgery or more, he posted hes perfectly fine but thats a long time
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That's what I thought but the harsch truth is that very few grow past 18. Don't expect anything at all.
I know many people who grew a little past 18, even if the majority is done at this age.
According to growth charts , guys gain 0.2-0.3 cm, so some people have chances to grow more than 1 cm at age 18.
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I think Abo is Itsmylife
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I think Abo is Itsmylife
Why do you think so?
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This guy just registered and very active
And he pretend to know a lot of things
His logic style is same as itsmylife
He always confusing with his statement
He try to give information to us and make us agree with him
That is his style itsmylife
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This guy just registered and very active
And he pretend to know a lot of things
His logic style is same as itsmylife
He always confusing with his statement
He try to give information to us and make us agree with him
That is his style itsmylife
Indeed, it´s a little suspicious he is really active for someone who just registered just one day ago.
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I think Abo is Itsmylife
You're all paranoid, Abo is another swede like me. He sent me a PM in swedish and we exchanged some views.
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ll is worth it
sux being short... but the recovery is a very long process... i just read a diary by a guy called bodybuilder
had achilles surgery like me... 10 months post achilles surgery, he still crouched when walking
he posted an update 2 years after... said hes fine now, but im not sure how it took him... he didnt update the diary for a while
so 2 yeas after surgery or more, he posted hes perfectly fine but thats a long time
Well you are so confuesing... you say you will never bee 100% after this operation... ;p?! and now you say you can be perfectly fine how do you want it?
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I think Abo is Itsmylife
No i'm not that guy/girl... what so ever lol
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100% and fine are not the same thing
not confusing... dont really feel a need to explain....
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feeling very good last few days, as far as everything
not a lot of stiffness, no pains at all, etc
i still cant walk right or for a long time, but thats 99% due to my left leg being malaligned
i'm very confident once i get this corrected, ill be very good... i think id be ok now actually if my left leg was properly aligned
right leg achilles scar is great, left not so much, but getting better
im pretty sure ill be getting my leg corrected acutely with a nail... i dont expect to have any issues with knee pain
i must say im very glad im already 12 months from surgery, and pretty close to the goal line... i'd hate to be just getting the surgery now, knowing what i do now..
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crimsontide, As I understand you had your surgery 2'April 2014 and you lengthen 5 - 7 centimeter and also that you have no fixators on your legs now. Can you please tell me exactly how long after you finished with lengthening that your fixators were removed from your both legs?
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7.5 cm
and i shoulde worn them around 10 months
took them off early and need to get left leg fixed because of it
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I can imagine you must be looking forward to get your left leg aligned. As I can read you will have the surgery in June 2015. Will look forward to see if you decide to write a diary about your leg correction. Good luck.
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no need to really write a lot about the correction
ill credit the dr,etc
but its something that should be relatively quick to heal from... just like a regular fracture... not gonna be lengthening any more
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not sure if it's just time, but lately, ive been feeling very very good... no ankle issues at all
i can walk seemingky normal except for left leg issue. very confident once i get this fixed, ill be great
wasnt sure before, but its like a few others said, just takes time... im not waking up so stiff,etc... i can get up straight out of bed, and not need 5 minutes to prepare myself
ankle issues were the most concerning to me, but seem to be almost gone.
im just feeling really good...
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That's great crimson, I hope you contnue to improve.
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hope your correction goes well bro :)
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ty guys... i just saw these replies
im actually quite annoyed right now
im finally now walking without any weirdness, my ankles feel great
but i know i have to get my left leg rebroken... its such a pain in the ass... i feel great now
when i get up after laying down, or sitting, my legs dont feel dead... when i walk, my achilles and ankle feel almost 100%... just 2 weeks ago, they were much worse
but now i gotta get ready to fix my left leg... if i showed u guys the x rays, everyone would say i need to get it corrected
im not in any pain, but i still walk oddly because of it...
just annoyed by this, and dr shah... at least i know my soft tissue seems to be recovering nicely ,which is the biggest concern
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Do you do any physiotherapy daily either alone or with a physiotherapist?
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nope
just got better with more walking and time... i guess i do stretches, but i dont count that
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wanted to post a few pics, for comparison
might have to setup an account somewhere to host photos. cant seem to upload anything now
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Use Imgur. It works really well with LL Forum for me.
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Hey Crimsontide first class to hear you're doing better man. Second I was wondering if you could advise any of us wanting to go the Dr Bagirov or Dr. Solomin route, basically doctors with the ability to perform LL but not a very good amount of aftercare.
I know the basics stretch prior to surgery, stretch during, walk to avoid certain issues. But anything in particular we should know going to Dr Barigov to help us succeed? You know Besides that his aftercare sucks
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Hey Crimsontide,
do you think your problems could have been avoided by staying at the clinic for the duration of the distraction phase?
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little, well, yes, but its the past
my right leg x rays last time were ok. my left leg was not. ill try to show x rays this week so all can see
i feel that my right leg might be different now, but doubt it. its just that my left leg is causing me to put uneven pressure
even if ill need to fix right eventually, which i dont think, i dont at this moment. i dont feel any pain even in my left leg, thankfully, though i have a feeling it's more due to my avoidance of walking than anything else. i'm pretty confident all my issues will be resolved after fixing left leg. the bone needs alignment in at least 2 planes
ive decided to get it fixed by dr monegal. i was originally planning on nyc, but rozbruch doesnt accept my insurance, and trying to get new insurance is almost impossible under obamacare. the surgery here would be insanely expensive, and that doesnt include hospital fees, though i think insurance would cover that
i feel pretty confident in dr monegal, though i'll be honest, and say that the arguing with members put me off. The facts are that he works in a 1st world European nation, and I've spoken with a few people that went to see him. ONe that has not gotten surgery yet, but did say that his clinic is very modern.
I've also spoken to 2 or 3 that surgery with him, and do recommend him. One posts here, but nt much. Maybe he will post here
He also went to the university of barcelona, which is possibly the top medical school in spain.
He also seems to want to make a name for himself, and that to me is a good thing. You dont want to have people complaining, so you really try your best.
I'm relieved and excited to finally get this resolved,so i can move on with my life.
ive put on a ton of weight, and dont do anthing because of my left leg. its caused a bt of edema, though not horrible, and just not easy to walk with it
I dont care about having a nail in my leg tbh, as ive spoken with a few people that say its nothing.. even rozbruch and paley said this
basically, just relieved to getting this over with
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Are your legs weightbearing if you wanted to walk more everyday?
You have earlier talked about Taylor Spatial Frame for aligning your left leg but know you have decided for Fitbone nail instead - any reason why?
When will you have the surgery?
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my legs have been weightbearing a long time
my left leg is not aligned at all though
tsf is expensive, and while the frame will correct all my issues within 3 weeks, I'd have to wear frame up to 4 months after
I'm not looking to wear a frame for 4 months, no matter how small is it is
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Crimson, I would strongly encourage you to go with the TSF. Four months might suck wearing a frame, but here's the thing:
- The TSF comes with many ring sizes and you could go with a pretty slim one if your doctor agrees. Baggy pants would fit over.
- The Fitbone is completely non weight bearing, so it's going to be even more disabling in the short term.
- The Fitbone does not allow progressive 3 dimensional realignment. You will not end up with as perfect an alignment as with the TSF.
The last is the most important point. From living with your bent leg you know how important good alignment is. In my opinion, wearing a frame for four months is well worth it if it means your leg will be perfectly aligned and function perfectly for the rest of your life. With the Fitbone, if it is inserted at even the slightly wrong angle, you will still be misaligned afterwards. By less of a degree, yes. But you will still have the same problems you are experiencing now down the road.
A lot of the complications of LL seem to come from people wanting to take the short and easy road rather than the safe road. Frames get removed too early and legs get bent. People go for monorails because they have fewer pins. Etc.
Don't make the same mistake of taking the short path. 4 months is nothing compared to the 60 years you will need to walk on that leg going forward. People need to keep the bigger picture in mind with these procedures. Early onset arthritis is no laughing matter. You don't want to have to be in chronic pain and needing a knee replacement at 40-50 years old.
Please do share your xrays. It's helpful for all of us to see how the xrays go with the experience you're having.
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Dear users
What we perform in this case is a corrective osteotomy to sort out limb malalignment.
This is exactly to prevent early knee joint osteoarthritis which migth be caused by malalignment.
After performing the osteotomy there are several ways to stabilyze the osteotomy but we are not using a Fitbone implant.
Hexapod external fixators such as TSF or Trulock are magnificent systems we use in progressive corrections of malalignment. Deformities after external fixators distraction are quite common, but they do not create major deformities that require progressive correction. In such cases correction can be achieved intraoperatively and stabilyzed straight away.
I use TSF as It is probably the best hexapod system in the market which allows us either to correct the axis, rotatory deformities and limb length discrepancies.
Great Point guys.
Cheers
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Here is my best word of advice to anyone considering doing this procedure, now that I'm almost done with everything
Only do this if you are doing it internally.. External is just way too hard for 99% of the population.
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It's been 2 years. How are you feeling about yourself now, after all this time?
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Well i still grow some mm! ;)! havent stop growth completely yet! think a few mm in 2 years
what about this guy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Rainer
That was what he deserved since birth.Everyone will rarely grow any more past 17-18
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Hey Crimsontide first class to hear you're doing better man. Second I was wondering if you could advise any of us wanting to go the Dr Bagirov or Dr. Solomin route, basically doctors with the ability to perform LL but not a very good amount of aftercare.
Why do you write that Professor Solomin does not provide a good amount of aftercare?
That was not my experience. In fact, I began to comment to my wife that I was growing tired of seeing so often doctors from the Solomin/Kulesh team after my surgery. It seems I was visited by some member of the team about three (3) times per week.
Even after I returned home for consolidation, Kulesh checks in with me no less than once every two weeks. Both Kulesh and Solomin are actively involved with my local team and coordinate with my local team via e-mail.
I find my aftercare with Solomin/Kulesh better than any aftercare I ever enjoyed in the USA.