Limb Lengthening Forum

Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: normythebear on November 27, 2017, 07:01:51 AM

Title: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on November 27, 2017, 07:01:51 AM
Hello all. I arrived in Vietnam about a week ago and have been traveling the country and enjoying the last few days with full use of my legs. I've been here several times and am comfortable with this country. My surgery is scheduled for Tuesday the 28th of November - tomorrow. To be honest, I'm very afraid. I am an athletic person and would like to maintain as much of that as possible. I'm concerned that I'm essentially paying to cripple myself and that my height dysphoria will just be replaced with a funny walk and significanty reduced abilities, which would be even worse. However, I know this height dysphoria is not going to go away anytime soon, if ever. I'm doing quadrilaterals and have essentially until tomorrow to choose between LON and LATN, or even fully external for tibias. I'm thinking about going LATN, because that will give me more time to choose if I want to go fully external for tibia. The knee pain thing is a huge deal to me. However, I would like the frames off by the time fall semester starts in September. I'm okay with a rod in my femur, as it will not be going in through the knee. I realize this is a rambling post, but my surgery is tomorrow, and I have a million questions about the future. No matter what I choose and what happens, tomorrow my life changes permanently. Even if I completely chicken out, it changes. Anyone can feel free to ask me any questions they want. I'm wondering about the nail the doctor uses. It is called the SIGN nail, however I couldn't find out too much information about it except from their own website, and one post about it on this forum. I'm also uncertain as to how much I will lengthen. I realize I should have done this much sooner, but I'm going to measure my bones and everything probably tonight. I might even post pictures of my current proportions. If it doesn't already exist, we should create a post on how to accurately measure proportions and bone length, so that everyone is doing it the same way. I'm currently about 5'8", or 174 cm. I would like to increase by about 6cm per segment. However, I would like to figure out the exact amount to lengthen by so that I keep the exact same ratio between my femur and tibia that I have now. I believe that if I keep the biomechanical ratio the same, relearning how to walk will be less difficult. 6.5 cm is the max I will go on any segment, but I am fairly determined to get to 182 cm or more, or else this journey won't be worth the effort.
Sorry for the rambling post. This is essentially word vomit due to my worries.
TLDR:
Quadrilateral surgery tomorrow, starting with tibia, then femur once tibia lengthening finished.
Havent decided between LATN, LON, or external only for tibia. Femur will likely be LON.
Haven't figured out exact lengthening amount.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on November 27, 2017, 07:28:43 AM
Oh hey, I remember you. I finally stopped lurking just so I can add my two cents in this thread (http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4901.msg77150#msg77150).

Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: FDR101 on November 27, 2017, 12:00:05 PM
So you’re getting tibia surgery tomorrow and neither you or your doctor have measured your bone lengths yet or decided on which method to use yet?

Is this standard practice in Vietnam?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on November 27, 2017, 01:25:22 PM
1: The clinic I've chosen is the one you have listed. I highly doubt these are the only orthopedic surgeons in this very large city, but I think this is the only one that caters to a foreign market in this city. Dr. Thuy has retired and it is now Dr. Quynh. The doctor has moved to a more upscale hospital from the one I visited in June, though the doctor and everything else remains the same.
2: I have consulted with other doctors via email, but had not actually visited them in person. I was going to visit the doctor in Thailand, but two things prevented that: he was busy while I was there, and he was out of my price range anyway IIRC.
3: Pricing is $12,600 per segment. It's pretty much all-inclusive, but figure at least $13k to account for flight, food, hotel, prior to getting the surgery, especially if you want an in-person consultation.
4: The only patient I ever knowingly talked to is the one from the thread that everyone was dubious about. He says that he turned out alright, and I'm inclined to believe him. He was athletic prior to surgery, so I'm guessing that helped his outcome.

Regarding FDR101, I don't know how it is with Paley, et al, and how they do things doesn't affect me, because I can't afford them anyway. While I'm at it, why don't I complain about my Toyota Prius because it can't do things $100k cars can do. The point I'm trying to make is that this is my option. I want the surgery done in a time frame that I can live with, because with graduate school and medical school coming up, I am not getting rich any time soon. The time to act is now, and if the doctor wants to take x-rays the day of the surgery, so be it. Yes, maybe it is a risk, but being looked down upon both physically and metaphorically, is something I don't want in my life any more. I'm not proud of the lack of confidence I feel when females are taller than me. I'm not proud of being uncomfortably conscious of the fact that I'm the shortest among my friend group. Yes, here in Vietnam, I'm a good height. Back in the US, I'm not. And I don't want this height problem undermining my confidence until I'm 50 and I can finally afford someone who does things different. So, is this standard practice in Vietnam? I guess so, but I have months of millimeter by millimeter lengthening for both him and I to figure out what length is ideal. So, whether it happen tomorrow morning, or 5 months ago, it doesn't really matter until those frames are on my legs.

Also, I've decided on LON because that is his standard practice. And if that is the case, then I will go with what he has the absolute most experience with. This doctor is in a legit hospital, and has "normal" patients in addition to the onesies and twosies like me, so I have a feeling he isn't a fly-by-night operation, follows the Hippocratic Oath, and probably cares about the outcome of his patients. I hope. Everything so far suggests that this is the case.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on November 27, 2017, 01:32:31 PM
Have they changed the hospital?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on November 27, 2017, 01:35:31 PM
Allegedly so. I will find out tomorrow if it is in a different location than the one I visited in June.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: IwannaBeTaller on November 27, 2017, 02:41:50 PM
12,600$ is a pretty good price and if you want to increase your confidence and are bothered by your height, and accept the possible physical drawbacks, so be it. It's all your choice. I personally don't believe that 174 is a horrible height for the US, albeit not a great one either, but then I'm just a little below that and I'm pretty unhappy in Europe (at some times) so I should not judge.

I hope the surgery will go well and you will have a good lengthening experience. Good luck, man!
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: esdkuci on November 27, 2017, 03:23:04 PM
goodluck for the operation tomorrow normythebear ,
i ve been thinking to do LL in vietnam too , but still didnt have the time yet

dont forget to post the updates! :) :D
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on November 27, 2017, 03:44:09 PM
Thank you for wishing me well. Whether good or bad, I want my experience to help guide others in the future.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on November 27, 2017, 03:52:46 PM
Good luck mate. And I hope you will have a swift LL journey. Please keep posting pics and xrays, we need more true experiences from vietnam. cheers
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Mariobro on November 27, 2017, 04:48:36 PM
Dont do it, 5,8 is a pretty normal height on most countries.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: The Dreamer on November 27, 2017, 06:19:06 PM
Think about it a lot,Vietnam is a third world country like India and asian countries.
We don't know anything of LL in Vietnam neither have reliable diaries.And we're talking about a single segment,figure out quadrilateral
I would suggest you to save more money and choose Europe or USA
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on November 27, 2017, 06:22:22 PM
Regarding FDR101, I don't know how it is with Paley, et al, and how they do things doesn't affect me, because I can't afford them anyway. While I'm at it, why don't I complain about my Toyota Prius because it can't do things $100k cars can do. The point I'm trying to make is that this is my option. I want the surgery done in a time frame that I can live with, because with graduate school and medical school coming up, I am not getting rich any time soon. The time to act is now, and if the doctor wants to take x-rays the day of the surgery, so be it. Yes, maybe it is a risk, but being looked down upon both physically and metaphorically, is something I don't want in my life any more. I'm not proud of the lack of confidence I feel when females are taller than me. I'm not proud of being uncomfortably conscious of the fact that I'm the shortest among my friend group. Yes, here in Vietnam, I'm a good height. Back in the US, I'm not. And I don't want this height problem undermining my confidence until I'm 50 and I can finally afford someone who does things different. So, is this standard practice in Vietnam? I guess so, but I have months of millimeter by millimeter lengthening for both him and I to figure out what length is ideal. So, whether it happen tomorrow morning, or 5 months ago, it doesn't really matter until those frames are on my legs.

You may get a limping problem undermining your confidence forever after that. I hope your research was enough. Remember to do stretching exercises and to not overlength.

With all that said, I wish you the best of luck if you're really doing this. I'd personally not do LL at your height.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Dr. Sarcastic on November 27, 2017, 06:58:35 PM
normythebear-

Oh boy, here we go, you are just another future cripple to add to the pile from third world doctors who have no idea what the f*ck they are doing.

Surgery is tomorrow and you still don't know if you are doing LON/LATN/Fully External. Great! You and your doctor sound very intelligent and well prepared.

My favorite part of this ingenuous plan of yours is that you intend on doing LON on your femurs after you finish lengthening your tibia's. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! LON on femurs. Genius, you are a pure genius. Only a complete moron would ever consider LON on their femurs. Any doctor who even offers that as an option should have their medical license revoked and forced to clean up public toilets for the rest of their life.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll turn out just fine, and think about all the money you're saving by having this done in a third world sh*t hole like Vietnam. Good thing too, cause you'll sure as hell need that extra cash since you will spend the rest of your life as an unemployed cripple. Constantly in need of assistance just to go shopping, make a meal, or wipe your ass.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on November 27, 2017, 07:29:23 PM
Actually, let me do a second post. If you need to reconsider, now it's the time. You may be in Vietnam, but you can still go back. Use the trip just to give you a perspective of how tall you actually are. You should be taller than 90% of the males there.

174cm is an absolutely fine height. I don't think you should risk your mobility at that height.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on November 27, 2017, 07:39:25 PM
Thanks for answering, normythebear.

Can you tell us more about your quadrilateral lengthening process? Is it bilateral tibias then femur after a few weeks, cross lengthening (e.g. left tibia and right femur then vice versa), or all segments at once? Frames on femurs sound like hell, add tibias to that and it'll be quite an experience. But hey, Overdozer did it (cross-lateral lengthening (http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=1671.0)).

To those that say 5'8" is fine, I agree. It's still below average, but I'm 5'5" in the US and I'd love that to be my starting height. At his height I'd probably just get internal femurs if I felt the need (or just get by with insoles), but a lot of us are here for cosmetic reasons, and that means it's OK to want to go from "(about) average" to "above average." And to say he's taller than most in other countries... Well, what's the point if you plan to live and die in your home country?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on November 27, 2017, 07:46:23 PM
I understand your points, Android, but he is not doing PRECICE with Paley... he is doing quadrilateral in Vietnam, down to external femurs.

Quote
But hey, Overdozer did it

Overdozer also described external femurs as hell on Earth.

He should do at most 5cm in his tibias and get out.

It also doesn't matter that his home country is the US: 174cm is not a bad height there. He's a bit shorter than some white girls and shorter than his male friends, I guess? Is that enough to risk all what quadrilateral LL in Vietnam entails?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on November 27, 2017, 08:43:23 PM
I understand your points, Android, but he is not doing PRECICE with Paley... he is doing quadrilateral in Vietnam, down to external femurs.

Overdozer also described external femurs as hell on Earth.

He should do at most 5cm in his tibias and get out.

It also doesn't matter that his home country is the US: 174cm is not a bad height there. He's a bit shorter than some white girls and shorter than his male friends, I guess? Is that enough to risk all what quadrilateral LL in Vietnam entails?

Starting a journal a day before surgery to me signals that the ship has sailed. He could very well be sleeping right now in a hospital bed. With this mindset, all I can do is encourage and ask as many questions as he's willing to answer.

Though yes, he could totally just get his tibias done and get out before the hellish external femurs. Not bad advice at all.

If it makes any difference, I've been PM'd for advice and dissuaded people from going to this exact clinic precisely because there's so little information about it. Hopefully this diary will shed some light to set the record straight, and I wish the best for him.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: IwannaBeTaller on November 27, 2017, 10:25:13 PM
This is exactly the reason why people are hesitant to post diaries. Some of you are too harsh.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on November 27, 2017, 11:07:57 PM
I do hope and wish the best for him. I just think of certain diaries in the forums. People need to be absolutely aware of what they're doing, what CLL is, and what are the risks. People get here from Google and don't do enough research; the information is also all spread out. Etc.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on November 28, 2017, 12:45:04 AM
these kind of replies are the reason for most LLrs not writing diaries in the forum now. Please stop judging and let him down. im sure he has done enough research. I know one LLer here who went to Sarin and completely fine but never wanted to start a diary here coz he didnt want this kind of responses. Dont ask why this forum is dying now its obvious
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Sarcastic.jr on November 28, 2017, 07:53:19 AM
You have made the right choice my freind. Clearly this is a master surgeon if he believes he can do femur with externals when no 1st world doctors do. Forget those amateurs in the u.s. Im sure he is a humble doctor and that's why he is not known. Make sure to do 8 cm on the femur, you want to get all the height possible. :)
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Sarcastic.jr on November 28, 2017, 08:01:07 AM
these kind of replies are the reason for most LLrs not writing diaries in the forum now. Please stop judging and let him down. im sure he has done enough research. I know one LLer here who went to Sarin and completely fine but never wanted to start a diary here coz he didnt want this kind of responses. Dont ask why this forum is dying now its obvious

With members like you and myloginaact growing, this should be named the retarted forum.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: WarRose on November 28, 2017, 11:13:18 AM
He do LON femurs by monarail method not external only
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Sarcastic.jr on November 28, 2017, 11:49:25 AM
Give yourself a badge for joining the retard club. Your contribution for this honor is for thinking that small monorail frames would make a difference. How about you lengthen with them and share with us how good of an idea it is. I know that you're too busy wiping the drool off your face so don't worry about it.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Body Builder on November 28, 2017, 03:11:06 PM
Quadrilaterals on vietnam with lon on an 1.74 height man.
This is the most fked up LL case I ever heard.

I hope noone would consider doing quadrilateral lengthening on the same time because it is the most stupid idea and the rehabilitation will be much much longer that doing both segments at different times, and the risks of fat embolism (and death!) are really big.

Anyway, I wish you could walk normally one day because it is the best you can hope to. But it is your choice to harm so much your body and take so many risks that everyrhing that would happen is your responsibility and only.
Sensible thinking and common sense are the most important things for a successful LL and unfortunately you showed a lack of them.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Zeo on November 28, 2017, 04:36:27 PM
Surgery date is today. Good luck and Godspeed. Keep us updated when you get out.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dawdawd on November 28, 2017, 06:57:59 PM
We walked him into the operating theater. At the moment he's most likely wide awake in the ICU where you don't typically get any Wi-Fi signal. Will go see him tomorrow after he gets sent back to his room.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Thatdude950 on November 28, 2017, 11:59:37 PM
Go help your friend! Beg him to re-consider!!

Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Sarcastic.jr on November 29, 2017, 06:04:40 AM
He'd be lucky not to get fat embolism for his stupid decision. His best possibility is that he ends up crippled. Natural selection at its finest.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Zeo on November 29, 2017, 06:51:38 AM
The surgery is already over with if he was sent to the operating room/theater

Not the best decision to do quadrilateral LL in Vietnam of course. But at this point there is no point in trying to reverse his decision. It's done. The best thing we can do is try to convince him to lengthen safely and a moderate amount.

Sarcastic Jr/Dr. Sarcastic please fk off. It's sad how pathetic your life is that you decide to just to shiit talk on an LL forum, I feel sorry for you honestly, not talking about this thread in particular just your general posts.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Sarcastic.jr on November 29, 2017, 07:35:16 AM
The surgery is already over with if he was sent to the operating room/theater

Not the best decision to do quadrilateral LL in Vietnam of course. But at this point there is no point in trying to reverse his decision. It's done. The best thing we can do is try to convince him to lengthen safely and a moderate amount.

Sarcastic Jr/Dr. Sarcastic please fk off. It's sad how pathetic your life is that you decide to just to shiit talk on an LL forum, I feel sorry for you honestly, not talking about this thread in particular just your general posts.

More than crap talking I am stating what everyone should of been saying to him. Perhaps not in a harsh turn, but certainly not saying this is why no one post journal here. Instead of convincing him, not to do this insanity. 

He is doing the surgery in Vietnam. He is doing qaudrilateral which is not a good idea with ANY doctor, much less from a third world country. He is doing femur with externals. This should tell you that he lacked research and needed to be convinced of going against his stupidity, not having people be neutral. His chances of making a full recovery are as good as the USA team wining the world cup next year. I'm also not convinced that this is all genuine and neither should anyone without any solid evidence given.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: iwanttobeabillionaire on November 29, 2017, 10:10:45 AM
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is quadrilaterals? Is that when you do both femurs and tibias at the same time?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Bander72 on November 29, 2017, 10:40:10 AM
More than crap talking I am stating what everyone should of been saying to him. Perhaps not in a harsh turn, but certainly not saying this is why no one post journal here. Instead of convincing him, not to do this insanity. 

He is doing the surgery in Vietnam. He is doing qaudrilateral which is not a good idea with ANY doctor, much less from a third world country. He is doing femur with externals. This should tell you that he lacked research and needed to be convinced of going against his stupidity, not having people be neutral. His chances of making a full recovery are as good as the USA team wining the world cup next year. I'm also not convinced that this is all genuine and neither should anyone without any solid evidence given.

Yeah it's true that it was a foolish decision but if he did go through with it then he is the one that will deal with the consequences. No point in debating it know.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: IwannaBeTaller on November 29, 2017, 10:42:42 AM
The better decision honestly would've been to do like 4-5 cm on tibia or 5-6 on the femurs and then recover. Then see if a second LL is even NECESSARY for your well-being, given that he could've been 5'10-5'11'' after surgery no. 1.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Dr. Sarcastic on November 29, 2017, 01:25:36 PM
(http://i68.tinypic.com/wcbu5z.png)


Enjoy your future....
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: The Dreamer on November 29, 2017, 01:41:09 PM
I'm also not convinced that this is all genuine and neither should anyone without any solid evidence given.
I'm skeptical too because lately there was the invasion of aspirants that claimed to have done it in Vietnam or people however linked with that country like that crappy assistant Thao
I hope the OP will give us some evidence,waiting for that I hope the best for the LLer and his surgery
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: WarRose on November 29, 2017, 01:44:08 PM
He did tibial first and then after it is finished (nails locked and frames removal) he will have to wait for a few weeks and then he will do femurs.

I mail to doctor's assistant
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: FDR101 on November 29, 2017, 02:10:16 PM
He did tibial first and then after it is finished (nails locked and frames removal) he will have to wait for a few weeks and then he will do femurs.

I mail to doctor's assistant

Isn’t it crucial to exercise your legs post tibia lengthening to make sure your muscles develop to avoid ballerina?

It would be very hard to do so if femurs were operated on straight afterwards.

How long until he can walk again?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: WarRose on November 29, 2017, 02:32:31 PM
Isn’t it crucial to exercise your legs post tibia lengthening to make sure your muscles develop to avoid ballerina?

It would be very hard to do so if femurs were operated on straight afterwards.

How long until he can walk again?


Let's just wait and see what will happens
I hope he will fine
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on November 29, 2017, 05:52:29 PM
More than crap talking I am stating what everyone should of been saying to him.

You weren't the first to dissuade him or question his decision. That said, differing opinions are fine; even stern warnings are welcome. The problem was your tone.

We get it, your username implies that you'll be sarcastic, but I'm not inclined to give everything a pass just because there's a preface. This isn't Reddit where we go mainly for laughs, where joke accounts are aplenty. This is a forum to receive support and to get information for life-changing surgeries.

If you want to give sound advice, go for it. Your last reply was great, I commend its thoughtfulness. It beckons careful reading, consideration, and respect. The previous replies just conjured knee-jerk reactions. If you want to have fun, I suggest Off Topic.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Sarcastic.jr on November 29, 2017, 10:32:57 PM
You weren't the first to dissuade him or question his decision. That said, differing opinions are fine; even stern warnings are welcome. The problem was your tone.

We get it, your username implies that you'll be sarcastic, but I'm not inclined to give everything a pass just because there's a preface. This isn't Reddit where we go mainly for laughs, where joke accounts are aplenty. This is a forum to receive support and to get information for life-changing surgeries.

If you want to give sound advice, go for it. Your last reply was great, I commend its thoughtfulness. It beckons careful reading, consideration, and respect. The previous replies just conjured knee-jerk reactions. If you want to have fun, I suggest Off Topic.

My post were not for fun, they were a wake up call for the op to snap out of it. Some people need to get slapped figuratively for their own good. Not wished good luck in his insane idea. That is mute as if he already did it then were looking at this as the best outcome.

http://img.wennermedia.com/920-width/503cripplefight-bb6bbcd2-3010-4192-b398-0d86dd363616.jpg
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on November 29, 2017, 11:39:01 PM
I’m doing alright. There’s a lot of pain. This hospital is modern and the staff is competent. I’m doing 6.5cm tibia, and if everything goes well, 5.5 cm femur.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on November 29, 2017, 11:50:44 PM
I’m doing alright. There’s a lot of pain. This hospital is modern and the staff is competent. I’m doing 6.5cm tibia, and if everything goes well, 5.5 cm femur.

Welcome back, please tell us more after getting some rest. Best of luck.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: IwannaBeTaller on November 30, 2017, 12:11:08 AM
I’m doing alright. There’s a lot of pain. This hospital is modern and the staff is competent. I’m doing 6.5cm tibia, and if everything goes well, 5.5 cm femur.

That's a typo, yeah? Surely you do less on the tibae than on the femurs?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on November 30, 2017, 12:13:48 AM
Hi mate how are you doing? can you post us some pics of the hospital and ur journey? wish u good luck mate.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Bander72 on November 30, 2017, 12:15:44 AM
That's a typo, yeah? Surely you do less on the tibae than on the femurs?

He's doing full external though, makes sense to do less on femur. Honestly he should do 4 cm on femur and even then I think he is still gonna face complications.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: KiloKAHN on November 30, 2017, 12:29:52 AM
Be careful with external femurs, especially monorail. My surgeon told me that because the muscles in your thighs are so strong, monorails can't deal with the tension past a certain point and it can cause problems with alignment when going over 3-4cm, not to mention the scarring that will reduce your knee ROM - bluebarbie had that issue most recently. Be on top of your surgeon for updates on your x-rays or ask for explanations (don't settle for a dismissive "don't worry, it's fine") if you don't feel right.

Imo, go 10 cm total with a max of 6 in tibias and 4 in femur since you're already going to go through with external femur lengthening.

Good luck.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: LAGrowin on November 30, 2017, 01:02:14 AM
I’m doing alright. There’s a lot of pain. This hospital is modern and the staff is competent. I’m doing 6.5cm tibia, and if everything goes well, 5.5 cm femur.

Wishing you well man.  Hopefully the pain will only last a few weeks.  Thereafter it dwindles down.  All the best. 
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Sarcastic.jr on November 30, 2017, 01:02:48 AM
Be careful with external femurs, especially monorail. My surgeon told me that because the muscles in your thighs are so strong, monorails can't deal with the tension past a certain point and it can cause problems with alignment when going over 3-4cm, not to mention the scarring that will reduce your knee ROM - bluebarbie had that issue most recently. Be on top of your surgeon for updates on your x-rays or ask for explanations (don't settle for a dismissive "don't worry, it's fine") if you don't feel right.

Imo, go 10 cm total with a max of 6 in tibias and 4 in femur since you're already going to go through with external femur lengthening.

Good luck.

And he wants to do 5.5 on the femur.... Do we need more evidence that there needs to be a stupidity test before doing LL. Also a ban of these third world doctors on the forum. I know the forum has to be unbiased but its stuff like this that leads to multiple people getting crippled.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on November 30, 2017, 02:44:25 AM
What are you trying to accomplish, Sarcastic? You say “that crappy assistant, Thao”. Have you had interaction with him? Have you done LL? Are you even planning to do it?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on November 30, 2017, 03:01:36 AM
show us some evidence mate thats all we need. and I'm sure you will be fine if you listen to your body
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: iwanttobeabillionaire on November 30, 2017, 03:32:59 AM
Glad to hear you are doing okay.

Are you in HCMC or Hanoi? Would love to meet up!
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Sarcastic.jr on November 30, 2017, 03:52:49 AM
What are you trying to accomplish, Sarcastic? You say “that crappy assistant, Thao”. Have you had interaction with him? Have you done LL? Are you even planning to do it?

You need to work on your reading comprehension. When did I ever post about "that crappy assistant thao". If I had a lobotomy done then I would gladly do it with him.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on November 30, 2017, 06:22:26 AM
Billionaire, I’m in HCMC. Feel free to stop by and I can discuss it with you. Just send me a PM and I’ll tell you which hospital I’m in. I’m reconsidering doing femurs now, because apparently they hurt more and have greater potential for damage. If the the pain I’m experiencing is already this much, I can’t inagine something hurting more. I haven’t figured out how to post photos on this forum. Once I figure it out, I’ll post them.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: KiloKAHN on November 30, 2017, 07:09:17 AM
I haven’t figured out how to post photos on this forum. Once I figure it out, I’ll post them.

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2183.0
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Sarcastic.jr on November 30, 2017, 07:32:04 AM
Billionaire, I’m in HCMC. Feel free to stop by and I can discuss it with you. Just send me a PM and I’ll tell you which hospital I’m in. I’m reconsidering doing femurs now, because apparently they hurt more and have greater potential for damage. If the the pain I’m experiencing is already this much, I can’t inagine something hurting more. I haven’t figured out how to post photos on this forum. Once I figure it out, I’ll post them.

No   dumb ass that's what everyone has been saying. I love how you said apparently, shows the research that you have done. That doctor is a quack for giving you the idea that you could. Go ahead and do the 5.5 on femur. The doctor will gladly do it after he gets his money.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: HHHeir on November 30, 2017, 07:57:16 AM
Hey normythebear, how are you? how was your surgery? could you please tell us your pain level?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on November 30, 2017, 08:58:15 AM
When I’m talking to people it is bearable. When I’m in the room and can’t sleep, it’s pretty bad, even with pain medications. There’s really no noticeable pain except for the lowermost pin sites, which hurt a lot.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Body Builder on November 30, 2017, 12:20:56 PM
The pain will get much less after 2-3 days. Hold on and think wisely to not do femurs, especially externally because yes, femurs with externals hurt 10 times more.

Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Bаnder72 on November 30, 2017, 02:50:29 PM
Doing external on femurs both at the same time is a real obstacle to deal with when moving around. You should do one leg femur, then the other to resolve complications
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: HHHeir on November 30, 2017, 04:44:01 PM
Hope the pain will get better in few day time. Did you tell the doctor about the lower pain?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on December 01, 2017, 02:55:28 AM
Last night was the first time I slept all the way through. It was glorious. I woke up with absolutely no pain in my legs. However, this morning they took out my epidural and preparing to remove the Cather later today. I’m not looking forward to that, as I kind of liked having it. The thought of getting out of bed to use the toilet freighters me because I don’t want to have the pain come back. Things are good now, but I don’t want the recurrence of pain. I’m also concerned about pain coming back once the effects of the now removed epidural wear off. All my responses I’m typing from a phone, so they aren’t going to be as well organized or as detailed as they would from a computer. At 1 pm local time will be 72 hours from the initial surgery. I’ve also determined for sure that I am not going to do femurs with external. Maybe in the future if I can afford internals, but not now, and I hope I’m satisfied with the height and athletic performance I will have.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: esdkuci on December 01, 2017, 05:09:25 AM
thank god everything is allright ,
normy , is it still painless till now?
and did someone accompany you on this operation?
and im curious about the removal of catether , how to go to toilet after that?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on December 01, 2017, 11:55:54 AM
View from my room immediately prior to surgery:
(https://i.imgur.com/yDO68Mw.png)
Hospital lobby:
(https://i.imgur.com/NrQawUd.jpg)
ICU/Recovery Room
(https://i.imgur.com/LVb4TSM.png)
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on December 01, 2017, 12:48:00 PM
thank god everything is allright ,
normy , is it still painless till now?
and did someone accompany you on this operation?
and im curious about the removal of catether , how to go to toilet after that?

I haven't had the catheter removal yet. They placed a valve on it, so that it can open and closed, allowing my bladder to fill again and get it readjusted to the sensation of fullness. They will likely remove it tomorrow. I'm not looking forward to having to contort by body just to pee. It is still mostly painless. The epidural has been out for about 12 hours now and i still have very little pain. Thao comes by to the hospital multiple times per day to check on me and we talk about a wide range of subjects. The Institute (where I will do the majority of lengthening) is about 500 meters down the road from the hospital I am currently in.
Though most wouldn't know this, I've said in a previous post that the Vietnam hospital I had visited during the summer was the quality of central Europe, which i was comfortable with. Recently, they've started doing the surgeries in this hospital, which is closer to The Institute. I can say with confidence this exceeds central European quality. Though it may not show in the photographs, the equipment is all made in either Europe or North America. The medicine I've been receiving has been either GlaxoSmithKlein or Novartis. I pay attention to this because I'm studying to be a doctor and have spent a lot of time studying in hospitals around the world. The staff is attentive. However, none of this matters without a good doctor.

There were multiple doctors in the Operating Room. It was modern, and I pay attention to details like this, with LED surgical lamps. I remember being impressed with that as well as the other equipment in the room. There was an anesthesiologist, I'm guessing assistant surgeon that spoke English and asked me to verify that I want this surgery prior to going in the OR, Dr.Quynh (the lead orthopedic surgeon), and about a half dozen nurses. They all went to work quickly and efficiently. There was no standing around like they didn't know what to do. They all had a task and did it well until I passed out, thinking to myself "what am I doing?! What am I doing?!" That was about 1PM on 28 November.

I woke up oddly optimistic in the ICU. Maybe it was the drugs, or excitement that I went through something so major. It was maybe around 9 pm. Since my knees were bent when they lost sensation due to the epidural, I guess my brain thought they were still bent. It wasn't until the epidural was taken out today that I fully regained sensation of my leg placement. In the ICU, wheneve I asked for pain medication, they gave me pain medication. It was relatively simple to communicate because the nurses used Google Translate on their phone, and conveniently, one of the patients under watch spoke English fluently. About 12 hours later I was brought from the ICU to my "normal" hospital room. That night wasn't that bad, though occasionally I would wake up from pain. However, the second night, even with an epidural and IV and painkiller shot, I was in terrible pain. I was regretting the day I was born and everything. The nurses and my helper Mrs. Linh tried to help me through it. It may sound odd, but there was so much pain I couldn't even cry. I couldn't distract myself with Netflix. All I could do is lay down and writhe. I didn't sleep that night, and it was the most pain I've ever been in.

By the daytime, it was okay. Thao visited me again, which he does often. My helper is by my side 24 hours per day. That night I slept just fine, with almost no pain, and relatively little pain medication. I woke up to zero pain, and the staff doctor checking on my progress. I thought it was due to the epidural that I had no pain, so I was almost begging for them not to remove it, but the doctor said that it can lead to infection, and wanted to avoid dependency. I was concerned that my pain level was about to increase greatly. A few hours later, feeling to my legs started to come back, but oddly, not a ton of pain. Dr.Quynh has visited me daily, but I'm guessing that I'm not his only patient he visits, and he spends a lot of time in the OR. I guess that brings me up to now. My surgery was about 80 hours ago. I haven't posted any photos of my legs because I am afraid to look at them. Everyone says they look great, but I'm not yet fully comfortable with the thought of metal rods sticking out of my bones. I havent looked at them, and I haven't taken photos. I asked Thao to take some photos, and I'll look at them at somr later time. Even the sensation of the blanket moving against the frame is odd. Not painful, just odd. So, it will take me awhile to post photos of my frames.

Side note: Dr.Quynh performs multiple surgeries per day, on many limb discrepancies, as well as various other orthopedic procedures, so this isn't his main source of income. At least I don't think so. I haven't asked him about his finances. He is not a fly-by-night operation working out of a dingy garage, but rather in a modern hospital that probably doesn't hire quacks. He corrects everything orthopedic from congenital defects in children, to hip replacements in the elderly. He is Vietnamese, so it is not like he is an exiled Chinese doctor operating without license in Vietnam. I don't know what more to say, my experience so far has been good. However, that doesn't mean the outcome will be good, because there is the whole element of luck, but so far I'm confident that, excluding luck, I've backed the right horse.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: FDR101 on December 01, 2017, 02:00:41 PM
I am not going to do femurs with external. Maybe in the future if I can afford internals, but not now, and I hope I’m satisfied with the height and athletic performance I will have.

Good decision.

I wish you good luck with your journey and will read your updates.

Remember to listen to your body and dont overdo the lengthening.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on December 05, 2017, 03:18:13 AM
Hello, it is one week post-surgery. I think I’m doing well. I got x rays yesterday so will hopefully see them soon. I’ll post much more substantial updates once I’m in the institute and have good internet I can use on my computer. Im just letting everyone know I’m alive, and if anyone is in Vietnam or would like to come here to see me/ the surgery/ the facilities, I welcome to any and all visitors. I think I will stay here for one week longer, and then move to the institute.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on December 05, 2017, 05:23:15 AM
Glad to hear that you're doing well, looking forward to updates soon.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on December 05, 2017, 06:13:24 AM
Hi mate. How is ur pain level now?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on December 05, 2017, 09:59:34 AM
Hi, pain level is actually a bit up from day 4. I'm at day 7 now. I think it is partially from trying to move too much yesterday, and also from not having used painkillers since day 4. I actually asked for some today. The pain feels like it is at my ankles, but I'm guessing its where my lower pins go in. There is alway what feels to be muscle pain in my heels. I'm guessing it is partially from my feet starting to curl from the contraction of muscle, whereas before they would normally be straightened out most of the day from standing/sitting with feet on ground. There is pain at my knees and slightly at the tibia osteotomy site. I expected this, but I think my this day other patients were able to least bend this knees. There is too much pain when I try. I hope everything is okay. I don't suspect anything is wrong. I've attached my before X-Rays, as well as the after X-rays. Let me know if you see anything wrong that I have any power to correct. If it is something negative, consider if my doctor or I have ability to do anything about it. If not, and your goal is to make me feel like crap, please don't type it. I want to maintain a positive attitude, and so far, even with the pain, things seem to be going well. I've also attached a photo during a bandage change so you can see the pin sites, scars, pin diameter and placement, osteotomy site, etc. Also, any yellow coloring on my skin and the frames is from iodine use as an antiseptic.
Before Left
(https://i.imgur.com/iRerD9i.jpg)
Before Right
(https://i.imgur.com/KMpRR7U.jpg)
After Left
(https://i.imgur.com/sOpAZns.jpg)
After Right
(https://i.imgur.com/2Ifmuj2.jpg)
During Bandage Change
(https://i.imgur.com/kNvJDO8.jpg)
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: FDR101 on December 05, 2017, 03:21:53 PM
Damn that exterior device looks brutal
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on December 05, 2017, 04:02:33 PM
Yeah. It seems the Russians tend to prefer many smaller pins rather than the two giant pins I have. I've always wondered how those seemingly tiny pins held people's body weights. I'm not concerned about pin breakage in this setup, though I feel it might be over-engineered and could have been less invasive with smaller diameter pins. I'm glad the frame is a "C" frame and not a full-circle and allows my legs to rest mostly on the bed when I lay down instead of floating uncomfortably in the air. Though, if I were to design the apparatus myself, I would have a lesser radius, just to minimize the amount of metal I'm wearing.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Sweden on December 06, 2017, 03:38:42 AM
Harsh pins you got there. Wish you the best of luck. 174 is not a bad starting height and doing 6cm on tibias would be a safe and smart decision. When you’re 180cm tall you’ll feel much happier, guaranteed. I was just so unlucky that I got to be 173 and went for 7cm so I got some issues from that. 6cm would be better.

As a doctor you could always do internal femurs when you’re 30+

Just think about your sitting height and wingspan. I want to do another 4cm but honestly, my sitting height won’t look good.
You could always increase it by getting obese - but no sane man does that.

Do 6cm, get back to normal health, study to become a doctor and live your life happily.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on December 14, 2017, 01:27:45 AM
Hey normy, hope you're doing well. Any updates?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on December 14, 2017, 04:30:44 AM
hope you are doing well mate. please post an update soon. im also aiming for 6
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: MrHandsome on December 14, 2017, 05:16:01 AM
Harsh pins you got there. Wish you the best of luck. 174 is not a bad starting height and doing 6cm on tibias would be a safe and smart decision. When you’re 180cm tall you’ll feel much happier, guaranteed. I was just so unlucky that I got to be 173 and went for 7cm so I got some issues from that. 6cm would be better.

As a doctor you could always do internal femurs when you’re 30+

Just think about your sitting height and wingspan. I want to do another 4cm but honestly, my sitting height won’t look good.
You could always increase it by getting obese - but no sane man does that.

Do 6cm, get back to normal health, study to become a doctor and live your life happily.

Could I expect to return to weightlifting with a 5cm leg lengthening possibly?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Antonio on December 14, 2017, 02:42:03 PM
Hi bro, good to hear of your progress. It's been more than a year now since your op, can you run fast now?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on December 14, 2017, 03:33:41 PM
This guy is living in the future  ;D
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Antonio on December 14, 2017, 05:51:07 PM
This guy is living in the future  ;D

Sorry my bad Norm, I meant that question for Asiann123. My apologies
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on December 14, 2017, 11:59:39 PM
well in that case I can help, This is Asainns reply when I ask the same question,

"Doctor Thuy had retired. When I came back I have doctor Khoi to took the nails out for me. The result is good. I believe every doctor they have there is experiences and have good skill. I have 4 friends that did with doctor Khoi and all turn out great. I'm going real good. I can sit on the ground and stand up, squat, jump, club dance,....I lift my girlfriend by my arms around the house. I was nervous about it but then nothing happen. I dont have any discomfort by doing so and she weight about 60 kg. I also do heavy lifting at the gym too. I just came back to my normal life 100% without any problems. Some people ask me about knees pain, honestly I dont have any, even climb on stair or dancin or doing heavy activity. My sister has none too. And all of my 4 friends also recovery well without it."
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Antonio on December 15, 2017, 12:30:05 AM
well in that case I can help, This is Asainns reply when I ask the same question,

"Doctor Thuy had retired. When I came back I have doctor Khoi to took the nails out for me. The result is good. I believe every doctor they have there is experiences and have good skill. I have 4 friends that did with doctor Khoi and all turn out great. I'm going real good. I can sit on the ground and stand up, squat, jump, club dance,....I lift my girlfriend by my arms around the house. I was nervous about it but then nothing happen. I dont have any discomfort by doing so and she weight about 60 kg. I also do heavy lifting at the gym too. I just came back to my normal life 100% without any problems. Some people ask me about knees pain, honestly I dont have any, even climb on stair or dancin or doing heavy activity. My sister has none too. And all of my 4 friends also recovery well without it."

That is just excellent news!
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on December 15, 2017, 12:33:12 AM
but this is too good to be true. maybe he had a very good recovery coz he was 18
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on December 15, 2017, 10:22:39 AM
Hey, everyone. Sorry for not responding for a while. I'm on day 17. Been lengthening for about 5 days now at 1mm per day. There is still quite a bit of pain. Not the sharp stabbing pain like in the days after the surgery, but lots of aches and discomforts. I go in for another x-ray tomorrow. I haven't been responding because the pain makes it difficult to concentrate or even care about anything. However, the scars seem to be healing nicely. My knees are very stiff to bend, and when I do they ache like crazy. I don't know if the pain means I should stop bending them, or if I should bend them more often. I'm guessing this is normal, since the nail and pins seem to be placed properly based off my research, and those are the only things I can think of that would mechanically affect mobility.

I actually had another response typed up in Microsoft Word where I complained about pain, and expressed self-pity about my life and decisions. I've moved from the hospital to "The Institute", where there is longer-term care. The doctor that performed the surgery has visited me here. I'm still mostly pleased with the quality of service here. However, my inability to do anything is starting to weigh on me and make me cranky and depressed. I just watch a lot of shows on my computer because concentrating on anything is nearly impossible. I brought probably about 15kg of books that I'm not reading because I can't put any thought into anything. I was hoping for a very productive period of recuperation, but instead, I just sit here, mindlessly watching shows, and stagnating.

I might post my complaining-style responses up so people can see the mindset of someone that is going through LL. Maybe it is different for everyone, but I'm guessing the first month is tough for most people, and honestly, I'm getting kind of depressed. There is more than just physical pain going on here. You experience thoughts like "could I live with myself if I were wheelchair bound for the rest of my life?" I know there are some very inspiring wheelchair-bound people in the world, but I personally couldn't live with myself.
Would I still do LL? As of this minute, I would say "no", but ask me in a year and a half when I should hopefully be healed. However, if I were still to do LL, I would still go to Vietnam. Similarly, prior to university, I volunteered for what's considered to be a "tough" job in the military. If you were to ask me in the middle of a grueling training session how I felt about the military at that moment, I would probably express incredible regret, hate, curse my own country, and tell the civilians they weren't worth my misery. But if you ask me now, I'd tell you it was the best thing I ever did. That specific job had a good chance of killing or maiming me, as it did to several of my close friends. Similarly, this surgery has a chance of maiming me and making me worse off than before. This could be a good decision or a bad decision. I still don't know. If it gives me some confidence and makes me happier with myself, then it was worth it. Or, it could ruin me. Though I don't have the option to quit this surgery, I do have the ability to change my outlook on it and even though I'm somewhat depressed right now, I am optimistic about my future self, and I know better than to "make a decision while going uphill". I'll save my determination for whether or not I should have done this for much later with a clear mind, because right now I'm going through some tough times, and I don't trust my own emotions.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Body Builder on December 15, 2017, 04:00:33 PM
Knee stiffness is due to the external fixator you use for femurs.
And no, it is not normal to feel so stiff from so soon. Imo lengthen not more than 3-4 cm on femurs to get off the fixators from them as soon as possible as they'll cause you irreversible problems and continue lengthening on tibias up to 6cm.

And of course try to stretch as much as you can.
You risked a lot with external femur and you can't lengthen as much as you would with internals so stop soon or you really face great dangers.
Tibias won't cause you much problems if you lengthen at a slow rate and not exceed 6-6.5 cm.
But with external femurs things are much harder and riskier.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on December 15, 2017, 04:07:06 PM
I'd like to clarify that since starting this journey, I am now only doing tibias LON and no longer doing femurs at all.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Body Builder on December 15, 2017, 04:51:19 PM
I'd like to clarify that since starting this journey, I am now only doing tibias LON and no longer doing femurs at all.
Its ok then. I encountered knee stiffness only after 5 cm lengthening.
What is your distraction rate?
Try to not lengthen more than 0.66mm per day. And some days when you feel too stiff don't lengthen for a day or do only one turn.
With that way you'll let your soft tissues catch up easier with your bones. But of course take care of your callus formation because if it fast then you should be careful to avoin premature consolidation.

So lengthen as slow as your consolidation rate lets you without risking pre-consolidation and stretch as much as you can at the same time.
I believe that you can reach up to 6cm without much problems.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on December 16, 2017, 12:20:37 PM
Hey, everyone. Sorry for not responding for a while. I'm on day 17. Been lengthening for about 5 days now at 1mm per day. There is still quite a bit of pain. Not the sharp stabbing pain like in the days after the surgery, but lots of aches and discomforts. I go in for another x-ray tomorrow. I haven't been responding because the pain makes it difficult to concentrate or even care about anything. However, the scars seem to be healing nicely. My knees are very stiff to bend, and when I do they ache like crazy. I don't know if the pain means I should stop bending them, or if I should bend them more often. I'm guessing this is normal, since the nail and pins seem to be placed properly based off my research, and those are the only things I can think of that would mechanically affect mobility.

I actually had another response typed up in Microsoft Word where I complained about pain, and expressed self-pity about my life and decisions. I've moved from the hospital to "The Institute", where there is longer-term care. The doctor that performed the surgery has visited me here. I'm still mostly pleased with the quality of service here. However, my inability to do anything is starting to weigh on me and make me cranky and depressed. I just watch a lot of shows on my computer because concentrating on anything is nearly impossible. I brought probably about 15kg of books that I'm not reading because I can't put any thought into anything. I was hoping for a very productive period of recuperation, but instead, I just sit here, mindlessly watching shows, and stagnating.

I might post my complaining-style responses up so people can see the mindset of someone that is going through LL. Maybe it is different for everyone, but I'm guessing the first month is tough for most people, and honestly, I'm getting kind of depressed. There is more than just physical pain going on here. You experience thoughts like "could I live with myself if I were wheelchair bound for the rest of my life?" I know there are some very inspiring wheelchair-bound people in the world, but I personally couldn't live with myself.
Would I still do LL? As of this minute, I would say "no", but ask me in a year and a half when I should hopefully be healed. However, if I were still to do LL, I would still go to Vietnam. Similarly, prior to university, I volunteered for what's considered to be a "tough" job in the military. If you were to ask me in the middle of a grueling training session how I felt about the military at that moment, I would probably express incredible regret, hate, curse my own country, and tell the civilians they weren't worth my misery. But if you ask me now, I'd tell you it was the best thing I ever did. That specific job had a good chance of killing or maiming me, as it did to several of my close friends. Similarly, this surgery has a chance of maiming me and making me worse off than before. This could be a good decision or a bad decision. I still don't know. If it gives me some confidence and makes me happier with myself, then it was worth it. Or, it could ruin me. Though I don't have the option to quit this surgery, I do have the ability to change my outlook on it and even though I'm somewhat depressed right now, I am optimistic about my future self, and I know better than to "make a decision while going uphill". I'll save my determination for whether or not I should have done this for much later with a clear mind, because right now I'm going through some tough times, and I don't trust my own emotions.

I'm glad you gave up on femurs.

What's your lengthening goal, at the moment?

Just remember you still have a life to go back to, and no one can tell the difference between whether you got 1cm more or not. Don't risk your real life and recovery for extra cms.

If you did 5cm, for example, and got to 179cm, you could still easily claim you're 6 feet and most women wouldn't be able to tell the difference, if that is a worry of yours. I live in a country with many men under 170cm and they all round up their height to 170cm when asked about it. I'm sure the same happens in the US and anyone around 178~180cm claims they're 6 feet.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Body Builder on December 16, 2017, 01:28:01 PM
I'm glad you gave up on femurs.

What's your lengthening goal, at the moment?

Just remember you still have a life to go back to, and no one can tell the difference between whether you got 1cm more or not. Don't risk your real life and recovery for extra cms.

If you did 5cm, for example, and got to 179cm, you could still easily claim you're 6 feet and most women wouldn't be able to tell the difference, if that is a worry of yours. I live in a country with many men under 170cm and they all round up their height to 170cm when asked about it. I'm sure the same happens in the US and anyone around 178~180cm claims they're 6 feet.
Between 1.79 and 1.83 there is a good difference.
If you don't wear insoles or elevator shoes then noone will see an 1.79 man as a 6 footer, the same way they won't see an 1.75 man as an 1.79 one etc.
You can add 1-2 cm without been noticed but not more, except you talk to a very shorter or taller person than you.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on December 16, 2017, 01:54:08 PM
body builder can you give me some advice on 166 man going for 6 cm (strictly). I tried lifting up my heels up 6cm and dont see much difference in the mirror or in a crowd. by the way im from an asain country so  if i get 172 that is a very good height(numbers wise)
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: InferiorityComplex on December 16, 2017, 03:33:41 PM
Nice diary! Quite certain you are making a good decision, we were talking about this diary here in Barcelona when you first posted..and they all said you were crazy lol. But I insisted on that I think you will be fine if not better than some of the other doctors. My biggest regret for not a even faster recovery (walking fked up but walking around 4 1/2 months later, 6 cm femurs) is that i didn't work on the GLUTES, they get completely fked being wheelchair ridden for 3 months lol) So please work on that, even though i feel like i walk A lot better than just some days earlier
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Body Builder on December 16, 2017, 04:24:48 PM
body builder can you give me some advice on 166 man going for 6 cm (strictly). I tried lifting up my heels up 6cm and dont see much difference in the mirror or in a crowd. by the way im from an asain country so  if i get 172 that is a very good height(numbers wise)
First of all 6cm lifts does not mean 6cm actual added height.
In reality it adds you about 4cm.

6 cm added do a good change on your height but the shorter you were the less the difference will be when you are in a crown.
Personally, between 1.74 I am right now (on evening) and 1.80  I am with elevator shoes plus 2cm insoles I see a huge difference everywhere.
Before my LL though I didn't feel so much different before even with elevator shoes I was less than I am now without shoes.
So even if the added cms are the same from shoes, the difference you'll feel from 1.66 to 1.72 will be less than if you became 1.78 from 1.72.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on December 16, 2017, 11:01:42 PM
Between 1.79 and 1.83 there is a good difference.
If you don't wear insoles or elevator shoes then noone will see an 1.79 man as a 6 footer, the same way they won't see an 1.75 man as an 1.79 one etc.
You can add 1-2 cm without been noticed but not more, except you talk to a very shorter or taller person than you.

True. I'd have to know the culture in the US. I always had the impression they used 6 feet when they really mean around 180cm (and not 183), specially because the 5'11 guys will be rounding up, so you can see why I made my post. Either way, I think only other men of similar height would notice the difference. Women tend to be really bad at estimating height and private parts' size due to how often men lie about those.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on December 30, 2017, 10:22:36 PM
This is just an update with X-rays. Though I thought I was at 20mm, the measurement on the screen shows that I'm only at 16mm. I'm guessing that the frame isn't exactly the most accurate gauge of distraction length and that I should trust the X-ray more. I'm also guessing that not every millimeter gained on the frame directly translates to a millimeter of bone distraction. The doctor also said that he is able to correct any slight discrepancies (within reason)if my legs end up at different lengths, which they shouldn't.
It looks like my fibula isn't perfectly straight. Is this any cause for concern? I don't want it to heal permanently crooked.
Also, I'm at slightly more than one month since the surgery. Should I be worried about callus formation yet? It doesn't seem like there is much, if anything there. I am a healthy person, so I'm guessing there is no reason why it shouldn't form eventually.
Lastly, since I'm not doing quadrilaterals anymore, does anyone know of a way to change the topic name away from quadrilaterals to maybe "LON in Vietnam"?
Left leg: (https://i.imgur.com/pN47nSh.jpg)
Right Leg: (https://i.imgur.com/Lw12mLd.jpg)
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on January 01, 2018, 07:57:07 PM
I think only an admin could change the name of your topic.

And I have no idea about the callus formation. Ask your doctor about it, if you haven't already. I really hope someone who went through LL can help you with that question, otherwise you should start making threads/pming people to make sure, in case your doctor hasn't already given good input to you on that subject.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on January 02, 2018, 11:40:18 PM
I'm not sure if this is what's going on, but here's a snippet from a paper regarding callus formation and x-rays (https://triggered.clockss.org/ServeContent?rft_id=info:doi/10.1001/archfami.9.4.373), emphasis mine:

Quote
Endosteal callus or intramedually callus also develops as part of the healing process. This type of callus is usually not visible on x-ray film. Fractures of short or irregular bones, such as the scaphoid or calcaneus, primarily heal internally and rely chiefly on endosteal callus formation for repair. This is because these types of bone have little cortex to produce radiodense callus.

Maybe your new calluses are too premature for x-ray to pick up. Ask your doctor!
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on January 03, 2018, 11:57:11 PM
I've been assured by my doctor that everything looks great, and though I trust him, I still want to hear opinions. I am guessing that statistically, since this is a normal LON LL, I'm most likely to fall into average healing times, with average likelihood of complications. I'm just strongly afraid of things like non-union or any other small percentage chance of complications that could result in long lasting debilitation. When have calluses usually been apparent for those that have had LL before?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on January 04, 2018, 03:16:23 AM
I don't think you should worry about callus formation yet. Non union is very rare so just give it some time atm
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: yagen on January 04, 2018, 07:25:27 AM
normybear,

I did tibias with an internal method, check my xray that I posted beside I did femurs too.

I think that you must to have any visible callus. I recommended you if you reach 3 cms and you don't see any callus to stop till you see bone growing.

what is the opinion of the doctor about deviation of the fibula? You need to do a xray stand up thus you can check the right position of the axial angle of the ankle.

"Axial alignment

Tibial shaft alignment varies considerably. The medial distal tibia joint angle varies between 88 to 94° in the AP, and the anterior distal tibial joint angle between 78 to 82° in the lateral view.

Tibial shaft alignment is influenced by the fibular reduction. If the fibula is too short, a valgus malalignment is likely. This is because the two bones are connected by the syndesmotic ligaments which are usually intact. This problem is demonstrated by the second case, below.

To avoid lateral shortening and valgus deformity, a comminuted fibula is better repaired after the tibia."

(https://www2.aofoundation.org/AOFileServerSurgery/MyPortalFiles?FilePath=/Surgery/es/_img/surgery/05-RedFix/43/Assessment/43_final-assessment_3a_300.jpg)

Best wishes
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: kingofstory on January 16, 2018, 05:39:31 AM
I hope anyone reading this journal thinks carefully before deciding to do this dangerous surgery in vietnam.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: esdkuci on January 18, 2018, 07:18:13 AM
hello normy , its been a while since your last update .
how your recovery going?
i hope everything is going well  :)
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on January 18, 2018, 08:58:49 AM
Hey, I think I'm doing pretty alright. In a few days I'm going to get my next X rays to see how it is going. I don't post much because a lot of it is mundane: reading books, stretching, playing video games, eating, Facebook, and lengthening every few hours. I also feel that the forums can sometimes be a toxic place that puts me in a bad mood if I'm not careful. I was going to start getting defensive because of kingofstory's post, but then realized it wouldn't accomplish anything, but it's not as though I didn't have a flash of anger when I first read it, or the hundreds of similar posts littered throughout this forum. So, I simply stay away usually, unless someone DM's me and I have to go to the website to respond, which is what happened today. I realize that LL is a huge risk and people should think carefully about it, but I don't think it is a mystery to anyone on this forum what the procedure is: they break your bones and then pull them apart. It's painful, and there is an element of risk. Everyone knows this. Posts like kingofstory add absolutely no value to the conversation, especially since I'm in Vietnam and have already had the surgery. Where I can try to provide some value is by sharing my experience about a place that most people immediately dismiss, but at least a few people are wondering about. I still read about LL, but rarely from the forums. I usually read from medical journals.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on January 18, 2018, 02:54:46 PM
hey man, didnt see you online on whatsapp lately
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: littlerichard on January 19, 2018, 03:19:35 AM
Hey, I think I'm doing pretty alright. In a few days I'm going to get my next X rays to see how it is going. I don't post much because a lot of it is mundane: reading books, stretching, playing video games, eating, Facebook, and lengthening every few hours. I also feel that the forums can sometimes be a toxic place that puts me in a bad mood if I'm not careful. I was going to start getting defensive because of kingofstory's post, but then realized it wouldn't accomplish anything, but it's not as though I didn't have a flash of anger when I first read it, or the hundreds of similar posts littered throughout this forum. So, I simply stay away usually, unless someone DM's me and I have to go to the website to respond, which is what happened today. I realize that LL is a huge risk and people should think carefully about it, but I don't think it is a mystery to anyone on this forum what the procedure is: they break your bones and then pull them apart. It's painful, and there is an element of risk. Everyone knows this. Posts like kingofstory add absolutely no value to the conversation, especially since I'm in Vietnam and have already had the surgery. Where I can try to provide some value is by sharing my experience about a place that most people immediately dismiss, but at least a few people are wondering about. I still read about LL, but rarely from the forums. I usually read from medical journals.

Anyone trying to persuade others to not go Vietnam is making worthwhile post. Hopefully others wont end up in a future fate similar to what yours will be. You should be looking into getting one of these.


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71vqFSyxfrL._AC_UL320_SR218,320_.jpg
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on January 19, 2018, 06:25:25 AM
Glad to hear that you're doing well, normy. I don't blame you about the lack of updates, the boredom phase seems to hit everyone no matter how pumped you start out.

I agree that it can get toxic in here, so feel free to write something up beforehand and posting it when you get a chance. You don't even need to read the replies, just ask people to PM you. Keep it up!
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on January 19, 2018, 06:34:06 AM
Anyone trying to persuade others to not go Vietnam is making worthwhile post. Hopefully others wont end up in a future fate similar to what yours will be. You should be looking into getting one of these.

He has already gone through surgery, he's at his most vulnerable in the distraction phase. Why don't you hold the "I told you so" posts until it's called for? It's possible that this will be a routine, boring CLL diary with only minor complications (i.e. the best kind). No point in rubbing in something that's unfounded, normy's a big boy and he knew the risks. Feel free to start a new thread about disapprovals, but maybe a person's diary isn't the best place to do it (and really, what hasn't been said here already).

Immortal words of Thumper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGt9jAkWie4
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on January 19, 2018, 07:46:22 AM
He has already gone through surgery, he's at his most vulnerable in the distraction phase. Why don't you hold the "I told you so" posts until it's called for? It's possible that this will be a routine, boring CLL diary with routine minor complications (i.e. the best kind). No point in rubbing in something that's unfounded, normy's a big boy and he knew the risks. Feel free to start a new thread about disapprovals, but maybe a person's diary isn't the best place to do it (and really, what hasn't been said here already).

Immortal words of Thumper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGt9jAkWie4

Yes. And he's not doing quadrilaterals anymore, thankfully. Normy already went and got the surgery. Even if Richard personally disagrees with getting CLL in Vietnam, he needs to think of the fellow human being he is talking to. Psychological factors can be a problem in recovering from any health related issues, so, if he thinks CLL in Vietnam is really that bad, he needs to realize he is making it "even" worse.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on January 19, 2018, 06:01:11 PM
That's the partially the problem with anonymity on the internet. Things people wouldn't say in person, they say on the internet all the time. People don't seem to take into account the other human being with similar emotions that read their negative comments. The anonymity is making us worse people towards each other. Let's say I do end up disabled, and it was my fault because I voluntarily decided to do this surgery, is that something to rejoice? Let's say someone is badly injured because they were riding a motorcycle too fast for their abilities. That was voluntary. Do you make fun of them? Would you in person?
I can be very harsh when it comes to me attacking ideas, especially on the internet. However, that's the thing, I attack the idea and rarely the person, because it shows, if anything, a lack of good argument and reflects more upon me than the person I'm trying to attack. Attack the idea of gettting the surgery in Vietnam, instead of being like "haha, you're going to be in a wheelchair and a drain on the economy that my tax dollars pay for. Haha". If Vietnam sucks, then tell me why it sucks. Have you been here? Are you going to cite things like GDP per capita, or infant mortality rate? Are you a doctor? Have you even ever left your home country before? What qualifications do you have? You also talk a lot like DrSarcastic or whatever myriad of names that person had. Are you just another iteration? Because if so, that's definitely time consuming, and pretty sad.

I get the skepticism, Vietnam is a developing country. You walk down the streets and see trash in the gutters and pollution in the river. I've occasionally been disgusted by this country before, but you know, I actually kind of like it here because I see a bright future for this country in just a few decades. Liking this country contributed to my decision to have the surgery here instead of Russia. I'm studying to be a doctor and have thus volunteered and witnessed many surgeries in hospitals all around this world, including many " craphole" countries. I can get a good feeling if a doctor is skilled or not. There are good and bad doctors everywhere, but the highly skilled doctors, even in developing countries are still highly skilled. I feel this doctor is pretty skilled. If he felt sketchy, I wouldn't have gone through with the surgery, even at a very good price. My freedom of mobility is more important than saving a few thousand dollars. So, you're still not adding anything because you don't provide new information. Like I said before, everyone here knows what's involved: breaking legs and pulling them apart. Everyone knows there is risk. What value are you providing, besides being a crapposter? If this is your thing, do you also go to transgender forums and make fun of them? How about just average plastic surgery forums? Or how about just autistic support forums, while we're at it.

I took a risk. I wasn't fully uncertain in advance the quality of the doctor I went with because I didn't see his surgeries before having it myself. However, I met a patient of his who turned out well. I saw that the facilities were good, the staff were professional, and the quality of materials were good. That was enough for me to take the risk myself, especially since the price was right. Look, I get absolutely nothing by posting good about this doctor and Vietnam. I've already paid for this surgery months ago. They're not going to pay me to advertise on some obscure forum that I'm not even sure the doctor knows exists. What I do get is some satisfaction for standing up for truth as I see it from my perspective. Knowing what I know now, I still would have gone to Vietnam for this surgery, unless I happened to be making over a million dollars per year, and that would only be so I could stay in the US/Europe to work. If the outcome is good and the price is good, that's the place I'm going to get the surgery. Even if I were making $100K per year, I couldn't justify spending the entirety of my income on a surgery that can be done with similar outcomes elsewhere for significantly less. It's just value propostion, and even if the US surgery were "only" $40k, I would still probably strongly consider going to Vietnam. Europe and the US just doesn't make good economic sense for this particular surgery, unless you're just absolutely ballerific wealthy and utterly set on using internals only. If that opinion changes, I'll truthfully let the forum know, unless I get too provoked, delete my account, and ragequit the forum entirely.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Heman Master of the unive on January 20, 2018, 10:25:29 AM
The only sensible thing you have done is not go ahead with qaudrilaterals. You still made the idiotic decision to do the surgery so no one is trying to talk you out of it dumbass. This is to warn the gullible idiots that might actually be thinking in following in your idiotic footsteps. You say that ass of a country Vietnam will be developed, which would only happen in a long long long long long long.... time from now. You fool India is a powerhouse in terms of population and it's still in the garbage. How would the much smaller, poorer vietnam do what they cant. Right now as trump would say its a $hltthole. Besides lacking faith in you for your obvious lack of iq to even consider quadrilateral, there were other idiots making threads from Vietnam that seemed like complete scammers. So if you decided to leave the forum you would be doing a service to keep idiots from doing the same idiotic mistakes.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on January 20, 2018, 11:54:59 AM
Nice ad-hominems. You've clearly never taken a university-level rhetorics class. Who probably knows more about Vietnam? You, the person that can't string together a coherent sentence without reusing an insult ("idiots"), or the person that is currently there?
Why do you care about all the "gullible idiots" on this forum anyway? Who made you their Messiah? Clearly, you can't care too much, since you seem to have no problem insulting their intelligence also. If you don't like Vietnam, don't fking come to Vietnam. Let the other adults in this forum make their own decision. You're not the Limb Lengthening Jesus and they don't need you. Get a life. The only reason I bother responding to you is because I currently have a lot of free time. What's your excuse? Why do you spend so much time on these forums? I have a reason to be here. Are you only here because you have nothing better going on?
I'm willing to bet that you haven't been to either India, Vietnam, or even outside of your own region of the world.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: doomsday on January 20, 2018, 05:53:08 PM
have you got xrays?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on January 21, 2018, 10:06:09 PM
The last few posts made me think, "someone had to be the first to go to Beijing." Wishing you the best, normy.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Thatdude950 on January 29, 2018, 05:15:01 AM
How goes it?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: esdkuci on February 19, 2018, 08:15:59 PM
hello normy , glad to saw ur progress on last post .
please dont take words from those annoying people .
u have clear mind to think and making decision.
pls dont even let them making u regret it might affect ur recovery.

u must show that something good is happen to u ,

how everything doin ? is it all good?  :)
hope everything is okay  :D
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on February 23, 2018, 03:34:38 PM
It's been over a month since I've been on here. I have been responding to people when they send me a PM. I honestly just got tired of the forums with its negativity. I've even received harassing PMs before telling me how stupid I am for going to Vietnam, so I've just learned to ignore this forum. Anyway, progress is still good, though I have pains here and there and it sometimes interferes with my sleep. LL is definitely not a cakewalk, but as of right now, I still don't regret doing this, nor do I regret going to Vietnam for the surgery. However, as I've probably mentioned elsewhere, I'll only truly decide whether or not I regret this about a year from now when I'm mostly healed and (hopefully) walking and moving about just fine. I have faith that the surgery that me and my fellow patients here was done well, all my scars are healed and are mostly invisible, though I'm worried about how the pin sites will look. If it has post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation, I can cover that easily with makeup until it goes away, but if there is a noticeable dip in the skin, that will be harder to hide. A year or two later, as you may know, included in the price is the nail removal. What you may not know is that the doctor also offers to do scar revision on the pin sites at the same time without any added costs. I'd rather my pin sites heal nicely and not have to worry about any scar revision surgery at all.

I got Xrays today and am at 6cm and am having my frames removed soon and the nails locked. The bones seem to have decent callus formation. I'd post the Xrays immediately, but my phone is broke, so I'll have to find someone to take a photo for me.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on February 23, 2018, 05:57:21 PM
Thanks for updating us normy, sorry to hear that you're being PM'd by haters. Too bad you can't block people on this forum.

Good to hear that you're almost done with lengthening. Keep strong!
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on February 24, 2018, 01:56:00 AM
Indeed, he is responding in private messages. I consider seriously going Vietnam, country is not that developed but hospital is modern and doctor is enough experienced. You might get same outcome without losing money.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: positive on February 24, 2018, 05:35:08 AM
Thanks for your information, Nommy. You've been very helpful. Ignore those   and best wishes to you.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: dean9191 on February 26, 2018, 04:50:54 PM
All the best normy. This explains why ur not online on wtsapp. Hope to hear from u soon
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on February 26, 2018, 09:54:54 PM
Great that everything seems to have gone perfectly.

I hope you get a great recovery.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Bltzkrg on March 03, 2018, 02:21:25 AM
I hope all is well in your lengthening.
Please finish this diary and ignore the toxic people in this forum. You made a decision to do it and you've done it, all we can do is hope for the best.
I am considering going to the same doctor for my surgery as well and this diary is helping me out with alot of info. Also, don't hesitate to share anything. Thank you
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: James on March 04, 2018, 06:49:33 AM
My first post. I am having surgery with Dr. Quynh within the coming months. I went there to check out everything about a year ago. I was already OK with their old hospital. Having changed the hospital to a new one, I like to believe it will not be anything less than the old one. I was privileged enough to get to talk to the many patients they had at that time, as a result I got to see their patients with different progress stages. A majority of them were doing OK, some of them were already walking like every other everyday person you would see in the street, some of them were there for IM nails removal, some of them were still on crutches and of course with some of them were developing different levels of Equinus which should be an inevitable short-term complication of limb lengthening and can be dealt with. The only thing I'm concerned with is the temperature because I'm so used to colder weather. It was so damn hot and humid when I visited and honestly I couldn't see myself doing this whole thing soaked in sweat all day and all night long..but if the result is good, so be it. fk it and I will stand the weather. I learned the institute got revamped not long ago and allegedly they have better facilities now. Can someone verify this ? Sorry for the rambling. Hopefully I will have a pleasant stay there.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on March 04, 2018, 07:11:49 AM
Hey James, I recommend sending a Private Message (PM) to the authors of these diaries, since they'll get an email notification that you messaged them. Find the person you want to talk to and click on the little icon of a chat buttle under their name.

If it's not personal info, feel free to come back and share that with us later.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Tiger9898 on March 04, 2018, 07:36:16 AM
It seems like one more diary will come from Vietnam.  I hope everything will be good for you, please keep us updated.  Are u thinking about tibia or femur lengthening?  Because I heard that they have developed new stable monorail for femur lengthening and first surgery will be on april with that
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on March 04, 2018, 02:19:12 PM
It seems like one more diary will come from Vietnam.  I hope everything will be good for you, please keep us updated.  Are u thinking about tibia or femur lengthening?  Because I heard that they have developed new stable monorail for femur lengthening and first surgery will be on april with that
Woah, from where you get this information. As i mentioned before i plan to go Vietnam aswell this in the end of june.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Tiger9898 on March 04, 2018, 03:39:20 PM
Woah, from where you get this information. As i mentioned before i plan to go Vietnam aswell this in the end of june.

Doctor's assistant, Thao knew that i am interested in femur lengthening, but there previous monorail device doesn't let you lengthen more than 6 cm because of safety.  Just 1_2 weeks ago,  I got a message from Thao, he said that we are developing new monorail. And first surgery is scheduled for April
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on March 04, 2018, 04:16:49 PM
I was speaking with him aswell, but about Tibial. That's nice, because i want to make 2 segments in decent price which Vietnam really is. You can get good outcome living there for lengthening process, bcs you are close to doctors and assistants, even better than with expensive nails but w/o often inspection.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Tiger9898 on March 04, 2018, 05:03:21 PM
I was speaking with him aswell, but about Tibial. That's nice, because i want to make 2 segments in decent price which Vietnam really is. You can get good outcome living there for lengthening process, bcs you are close to doctors and assistants, even better than with expensive nails but w/o often inspection.
He said they will also use internal nail method in 2019(January).  I am still waiting for the outcome of femur lengthening on april with new monorail.  I hope it will be successful
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: iwanttobeabillionaire on March 06, 2018, 04:02:03 AM
Happy to see you guys have posted. I am also considering getting LON here in the coming months. I am a Vietnamese-American living in Vietnam already so its up to my discretion on exact timing. I have visited the institute recently and met up with Normy. He's a good guy and was really helpful in explaining the day-to-day.

I was worried I would be the only English speaking patient there and I think it will be nice to have company while recovering at the institute. Apparently they have had an influx of Chinese patients recently and they were doing lots of construction while I was there to create more individual rooms.

PM me if you guys want to start a Whatsapp group and I can invite Normy.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on March 06, 2018, 03:14:17 PM
We might create one. I'am  finishing my belechor degree this semester and take a year off for 1/2 segements in Vietnam(we will see how it goes, but i start for tiabia w/o ATL lengthening).
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on March 06, 2018, 03:34:20 PM
My first post. I am having surgery with Dr. Quynh within the coming months. I went there to check out everything about a year ago. I was already OK with their old hospital. Having changed the hospital to a new one, I like to believe it will not be anything less than the old one. I was privileged enough to get to talk to the many patients they had at that time, as a result I got to see their patients with different progress stages. A majority of them were doing OK, some of them were already walking like every other everyday person you would see in the street, some of them were there for IM nails removal, some of them were still on crutches and of course with some of them were developing different levels of Equinus which should be an inevitable short-term complication of limb lengthening and can be dealt with. The only thing I'm concerned with is the temperature because I'm so used to colder weather. It was so damn hot and humid when I visited and honestly I couldn't see myself doing this whole thing soaked in sweat all day and all night long..but if the result is good, so be it. fk it and I will stand the weather. I learned the institute got revamped not long ago and allegedly they have better facilities now. Can someone verify this ? Sorry for the rambling. Hopefully I will have a pleasant stay there.

Hey, each room has air conditioning so you don't have to worry about the temperature very much. I never really went outside, except for short trips to get an x-ray. Some patients like to have open windows and enjoy the breeze. Being from the snowy north, I appreciate a constant, cold, artificial wind on me from the A/C.  I'll start leaving the building more frequently in the upcoming weeks once my frames are off.

I also visited here when they were still using the old hospital and was still willing to do the surgery back then. The new hospital is even better, so it was a pleasant surprise for me when I came here for the surgery. Additionally, it makes it much more convenient for x-rays because it is so near to the Institute.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: RETRO on March 14, 2018, 05:46:54 PM
Price went up to 18000 usd now.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on March 15, 2018, 06:00:52 AM
For real? I was talking with them like one month ago and it was still 12.600 ...
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: mehmetcanan on March 15, 2018, 03:31:20 PM
normythebear, what kind of external fixator does your doctor use for LON method?
I'm sorry if you answered this question before.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: mehmetcanan on March 15, 2018, 03:56:23 PM

I wish my healthy days
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on March 15, 2018, 05:47:23 PM
normythebear, what kind of external fixator does your doctor use for LON method?
I'm sorry if you answered this question before.

Here are photos by normy (http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=5010.msg79155#msg79155) a couple pages back.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on March 18, 2018, 12:51:11 AM
As far as I can tell, they are just "normal" half-circle external fixators. I got them removed yesterday and had my nails locked. I'm so glad to have them off. I can't imagine doing purely external and having them on for so many months. Getting the nails locked caused more pain than I was expecting, but the pain went away in less than 24 hours. It is nice to be able to sleep on my side and not deal with the pin-site tearing. I greatly underestimated how painful pin-site tearing would be. I haven't uncovered any of the bandages yet, but apparently, the doctor is using cosmetic techniques to minimize the appearance of any scars, to include pin sites. I can't wait to be fully functional again.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on March 18, 2018, 01:35:21 AM
Good stuff normy, glad to hear that you got the frames off. How much did you end up lengthening?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on March 18, 2018, 08:14:46 AM
I'd rather not say because then all the haters are going to come and say things like "oh, you're so stupid, you'll be in a wheelchair the rest of your life" blah blah blah. It was more than 5.5 cm or whatever everyone always says is the absolute maximum anyone must ever lengthen no matter what. If, in a year's time I'm fully functional, I'll reveal how much I lengthened. I was moderately tall to begin with, so I don't feel it was an extreme length, but I don't want to hear it from all the naysayers, especially the ones who haven't done LL themselves, who always seem to be the most vocal. It was about 20% of my tibial length. I slight ballerina foot, slight knee contracture, and muscle atrophy, but I anticipated that and foresee it going away over time. I could have been more proactive in preventing the ballerina foot and especially the knee contracture, but the pin site tearing was causing so much pain that the only way I could sleep was to have my knees bent. I can actually straighten my legs out fairly with effort and was flexible prior to LL, so I am fairly confident this is a short-term problem. I was also decently powerful prior to LL, so I can correct the muscle atrophy. There is relatively little pain at this moment, but I get the occasional bone pain, which is actually the type of pain I was expecting this entire journey. Now, I just need to heal.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: EricR on March 18, 2018, 08:58:34 AM
I'd rather not say because then all the haters are going to come and say things like "oh, you're so stupid, you'll be in a wheelchair the rest of your life" blah blah blah. It was more than 5.5 cm or whatever everyone always says is the absolute maximum anyone must ever lengthen no matter what. If, in a year's time I'm fully functional, I'll reveal how much I lengthened. I was moderately tall to begin with, so I don't feel it was an extreme length, but I don't want to hear it from all the naysayers, especially the ones who haven't done LL themselves, who always seem to be the most vocal. It was about 20% of my tibial length. I slight ballerina foot, slight knee contracture, and muscle atrophy, but I anticipated that and foresee it going away over time. I could have been more proactive in preventing the ballerina foot and especially the knee contracture, but the pin site tearing was causing so much pain that the only way I could sleep was to have my knees bent. I can actually straighten my legs out fairly with effort and was flexible prior to LL, so I am fairly confident this is a short-term problem. I was also decently powerful prior to LL, so I can correct the muscle atrophy. There is relatively little pain at this moment, but I get the occasional bone pain, which is actually the type of pain I was expecting this entire journey. Now, I just need to heal.

Friend why do you not share the amount. I am sure if it is a normal amount lengthened that no one would make fun of you. Are you planning on doing external femurs later on?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: doomsday on March 18, 2018, 05:53:02 PM
ok so tell us how tall you are :D
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on March 18, 2018, 11:22:02 PM
Understood about the haters, hoping for a smooth consolidation.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on March 20, 2018, 10:57:47 AM
Price went up to 18000 usd now.

So not much point in considering Vietnam now. You can do it with Pili in Italy for 20k euros, or Russia, the birthplace of the Ilizarov technique. Russia is still risky, but like Vietnam, a cheaper risky.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on March 20, 2018, 02:02:02 PM
So not much point in considering Vietnam now. You can do it with Pili in Italy for 20k euros, or Russia, the birthplace of the Ilizarov technique. Russia is still risky, but like Vietnam, a cheaper risky.

Yea but this is all in with accommodation for 4 months and meals. Add other costs for Pili, if you want ofc stay around doctor during lengthening. Italy is not that cheap, especially north.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: James on March 21, 2018, 06:27:42 PM
So not much point in considering Vietnam now. You can do it with Pili in Italy for 20k euros, or Russia, the birthplace of the Ilizarov technique. Russia is still risky, but like Vietnam, a cheaper risky.
Russians are not good at LON if LON is what we all are looking into here. However, they are quite decent with "fully external" because that's what "Illizarov" is all about. LON is not at all "fully external". It involves a great deal of skills completely different added to what an "Illizarov" already requires. Just saying.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on March 31, 2018, 01:25:12 PM
Any updates bro after removal bro?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on April 20, 2018, 04:03:23 AM
Frames came off about one month ago now. I just returned to the US as of yesterday. I can walk with crutches, albeit slowly, but it is getting better day by day, and not having the convenience of a wheelchair forces me to walk more. When you're being lazy, it's much simpler to just hop in the wheelchair and be able to move as quickly as people can walk. But on crutches, moving around is a hassle, especially if you have to carry something, which you can't. In a wheelchair, I can put just as much weight in my lap as I could carry on my back before the surgery. Anyway, it's been good to be home. As with before, even if I could afford someone much more expensive, I'd still have gone to Vietnam. It had been a mostly positive experience. I still have ballerina foot and some knee contractures that I'm working on. I'm going to see a physical therapist soon to work these out. The ballerina foot seems to get better pretty quickly, but forcing my knee to straighten out has been more difficult. I've also lost a ton of muscle mass since I had the surgery. That makes sense just due to lack of use.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on April 20, 2018, 06:47:12 AM
Glad that you're doing well, normy! Thanks for the update, really appreciate it since I know you got a lot of flack in the past. Best of luck with your recovery.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Petite888 on April 20, 2018, 07:16:24 AM
Hi Normy,

Have been reading your journal with great interest as I myself am originally Vietnamese and would love to do CLL but a bit too scared to at the moment. I am glad that your surgery thus far has gone pretty smoothly and I wish you an easy (as poss) consolidation phase.

I would love to know more about your scars, you mentioned your doctor was doing a cosmetic procedure to reduce the appearance at one point? Would love to know how that worked out as being female that would be really important to me.

Thanks.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on April 20, 2018, 01:04:00 PM
He got quite offended on this forum so probably its better for hom to not write there. Write to him priv. He responds often.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on April 22, 2018, 10:52:25 AM
I'll probably be responding less often now as I have less free-time now that I'm back in the US. Just a brief update, I walk up and down stairs now, not necessarily with ease, but I do it several times per day. I also just completed a set of 10 body weight squats - kind of. I'm afraid to go too far down yet, and look ridiculous doing them since I'm on my tiptoes. Luckily, I'm in my house. I will start seeing a physical therapist on Tuesday and I hope to hear that everything looks good and I'll recover quickly. Everything seems okay to me, but it is reassuring to hear it from multiple sources. My scars aren't that bad. I'll maybe post them sometime. I just have scars where there was pin site tearing along the inside of my knees. As for the surgery scars, they are almost invisible. However, my scar healing ability has always been good, so your results may vary.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on April 22, 2018, 12:00:31 PM
I'd rather not say because then all the haters are going to come and say things like "oh, you're so stupid, you'll be in a wheelchair the rest of your life" blah blah blah. It was more than 5.5 cm or whatever everyone always says is the absolute maximum anyone must ever lengthen no matter what. If, in a year's time I'm fully functional, I'll reveal how much I lengthened. I was moderately tall to begin with, so I don't feel it was an extreme length, but I don't want to hear it from all the naysayers, especially the ones who haven't done LL themselves, who always seem to be the most vocal. It was about 20% of my tibial length. I slight ballerina foot, slight knee contracture, and muscle atrophy, but I anticipated that and foresee it going away over time. I could have been more proactive in preventing the ballerina foot and especially the knee contracture, but the pin site tearing was causing so much pain that the only way I could sleep was to have my knees bent. I can actually straighten my legs out fairly with effort and was flexible prior to LL, so I am fairly confident this is a short-term problem. I was also decently powerful prior to LL, so I can correct the muscle atrophy. There is relatively little pain at this moment, but I get the occasional bone pain, which is actually the type of pain I was expecting this entire journey. Now, I just need to heal.

We talk about hard numbers here, but it really is about the relative increase of your previous total bone length. ~20% is the "safe limit" (http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2396.0), so you're fine there.

I'll probably be responding less often now as I have less free-time now that I'm back in the US. Just a brief update, I walk up and down stairs now, not necessarily with ease, but I do it several times per day. I also just completed a set of 10 body weight squats - kind of. I'm afraid to go too far down yet, and look ridiculous doing them since I'm on my tiptoes. Luckily, I'm in my house. I will start seeing a physical therapist on Tuesday and I hope to hear that everything looks good and I'll recover quickly. Everything seems okay to me, but it is reassuring to hear it from multiple sources. My scars aren't that bad. I'll maybe post them sometime. I just have scars where there was pin site tearing along the inside of my knees. As for the surgery scars, they are almost invisible. However, my scar healing ability has always been good, so your results may vary.

Glad to hear you seem to be doing well.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on April 24, 2018, 02:14:08 PM
For interested people, message from them.

We has increased our price due to these following reasons:

1. We switched the hospital from the beginning of December 2017 onwards. Thanks to its advanced facilities and attentive care service, it's easily one of the best available and most expensive in all of the Ho Chi Minh city, thus the raise in the package fee. On top of that, from the beginning of December 2017 onwards, the government has imposed a new restriction that hospitals need to go through a series of accreditation and obtain a specific license if they want to operate a foreigner, which means foreign patients can not receive the surgery in an ordinary hospital anymore. They need to have the surgery done in hospitals that comply with the new restriction. As a result, they charge the foreign patients 40% higher than they charge the locals.

2. We invested a great deal of money to revamp the whole guesthouse and all rooms to make sure the patients have a pleasant stay here. All rooms are specifically designed to be wheelchair-friendly and easily accessible. Many subtle changes have been made to bring about a carefree recovery experience for the patients.

3. Salary raise for our staff. Cost increase in meals and ingredients.

4. Costs for the lawyer and notarisation of contracts for the maximum protection of patients' interest and peace of mind. Risk funds for potential complications as a result of surgery is also established to ensure potential complications would be treayed in a timely fashion.

5. We also improve with cosmetic sewing technique for your scars and your pinsite as well as reduce the pinsite size.

6. We have developed an anti-ballenrine shoes for patients to wear during their lengthening period so that they will have second to none ballenrine feet.


Along with a new form of contract.
Which state:
1. If you have any kind of complication, we will fix it for free until healed with charging any fee (Including accommodation, meals, surgery fee etc)
2. If we cannot fix it, you can go to another doctor and we will cover 100% of the cost
3. We will give you warranty 10 years after the first surgery.


For the internal nail, we are working on it. As soon as we ready to release it, we will let you know.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Tiger9898 on April 24, 2018, 03:41:07 PM
For interested people, message from them.

We has increased our price due to these following reasons:

1. We switched the hospital from the beginning of December 2017 onwards. Thanks to its advanced facilities and attentive care service, it's easily one of the best available and most expensive in all of the Ho Chi Minh city, thus the raise in the package fee. On top of that, from the beginning of December 2017 onwards, the government has imposed a new restriction that hospitals need to go through a series of accreditation and obtain a specific license if they want to operate a foreigner, which means foreign patients can not receive the surgery in an ordinary hospital anymore. They need to have the surgery done in hospitals that comply with the new restriction. As a result, they charge the foreign patients 40% higher than they charge the locals.

2. We invested a great deal of money to revamp the whole guesthouse and all rooms to make sure the patients have a pleasant stay here. All rooms are specifically designed to be wheelchair-friendly and easily accessible. Many subtle changes have been made to bring about a carefree recovery experience for the patients.

3. Salary raise for our staff. Cost increase in meals and ingredients.

4. Costs for the lawyer and notarisation of contracts for the maximum protection of patients' interest and peace of mind. Risk funds for potential complications as a result of surgery is also established to ensure potential complications would be treayed in a timely fashion.

5. We also improve with cosmetic sewing technique for your scars and your pinsite as well as reduce the pinsite size.

6. We have developed an anti-ballenrine shoes for patients to wear during their lengthening period so that they will have second to none ballenrine feet.


Along with a new form of contract.
Which state:
1. If you have any kind of complication, we will fix it for free until healed with charging any fee (Including accommodation, meals, surgery fee etc)
2. If we cannot fix it, you can go to another doctor and we will cover 100% of the cost
3. We will give you warranty 10 years after the first surgery.


For the internal nail, we are working on it. As soon as we ready to release it, we will let you know.
It is so impressive that they are saying If we cannot fix it, you can go to another doctor and we will cover 100% of the cost
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Hamiltonzac on April 25, 2018, 09:53:40 PM
What are the lengthening costs in vietnam for 2 segments?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on April 26, 2018, 10:13:28 AM
Just  multiply by 2.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Hamiltonzac on April 26, 2018, 11:21:00 PM
Where is your info coming from? Dr. Solomin and Dr. Kulesh are very experienced and there have been multiple patients here who had a successfull LL with them. It is so cheap because the Rouble(russian currency) has fallen by a huge amount. Please don't compare it to India. I'm not just saying this because I'm getting it done there myself but based on sole facts coming from this forum and also other patients. After all it's the birthplace of the LL itself, that has to account for something.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on April 27, 2018, 12:02:35 AM
Hamiltonzac, not sure I understand why you're talking defensively in the last message.

You asked "What are the lengthening costs in vietnam for 2 segments?" and the cost is whatever it is for one surgery multiplied by two. $18,000 (http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=5323.msg83914#msg83914) * 2 = $36,000 for both tibias and femurs.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Hamiltonzac on April 27, 2018, 12:11:01 AM
Myloginact mentioned that Russia is "risky". I don't exactly see why?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on April 27, 2018, 12:29:59 AM
Myloginact mentioned that Russia is "risky". I don't exactly see why?

Ah, I see. Do consider quoting a message if you're replying to something several messages old, especially since he said that a month ago. I was confused since context had changed to pricing.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Hamiltonzac on April 27, 2018, 12:41:30 AM
Sorry about that. I'm using my phone so it's sometimes difficult.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on April 27, 2018, 12:52:48 AM
Myloginact mentioned that Russia is "risky". I don't exactly see why?

I just play the "better safe than sorry" game in these forums. I don't want any of my posts to seem like I'm encouraging others to get it done somewhere they might face more problems than with someone like Paley. I haven't done LL yet myself, so I also can't really comment much. But LL is a very invasive and intensive process, and I feel you need to tread carefully when making posts.

To make it clearer: Russia is probably riskier than doing LL somewhere like at the Paley institute. Vietnam is most likely riskier than Russia.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Hamiltonzac on April 27, 2018, 01:10:25 AM
I guess the countrues reputation plays a big role in our minds so I somewhat agree to what your saying and why you feel it's riskier in Russia than it is in the States.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacct on April 27, 2018, 01:25:56 AM
I guess the countrues reputation plays a big role in our minds so I somewhat agree to what your saying and why you feel it's riskier in Russia than it is in the States.

Yep, Kulesh seems pretty good, but wasn't Overdozer who "boasted" about getting prescription drugs from stores without having any? And he was a native Russian.

You're just most likely more overall protected in case anything goes wrong if you're in the EU or the US.

EDIT: As we've seen with Unicorn, though, there are no guarantees if your doctor is negligent towards you...
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Hamiltonzac on April 27, 2018, 10:45:56 AM
I completely agree. LL aside Russia is the same when it comes to every other general hospital. It's still a developing country but I am not doubting the doctors expertise.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Muller25 on June 15, 2018, 12:25:47 AM
So anyone still going to Vietnam?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on June 15, 2018, 11:55:10 AM
I was considering this but they increased price from 12k to 1k8 and I decided to wait till they start using internal methods, also i heard about some bad outcomes which made me reconsider this option.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Asiankll on June 15, 2018, 01:40:36 PM
what's the bad outcomes you heard about?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: iwanttobeabillionaire on June 15, 2018, 02:04:04 PM
I'm doing this surgery in Vietnam right now... there are 20+ patients. Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and three English-speaking.

Not sure what bad outcomes you are referring to. Worst thing so far is somebody with a pinsite infection that had to get blood removed from around it. I've kept in touch with Normy and he's could walk without aid 6 months after surgery albeit not normally.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on June 15, 2018, 04:21:13 PM
Normy got some issues back then and i want to quote something
Quote
I wanted to share the information about the situation in vietnam, about the hospital I have posted before because I feel responsible if anyone dicided to do CLL there without knowing what's going on..

this month, a chinese girl doing LON was transfered to ICU after having a bad infection, I suspect a case of sepsis.
at the same hospital, one of my friend has also been suffering for a severe pin tract infection, but not only pin-site, doc had to cut open the stitched wound where they  cut bone during the initial operation.
half of his shin was swallen and when they opened the stitched wound, so much puss oozed out...horrific!
now he is taking 24 hr VAC therapy to suck up all bacteria.
there are also other japanese and chinese total of 15 patient at the institute where they stay during distraction and only 2 helpers are attending them.
the hospital dislocated some of x ray data and cannot find never and is susppected not taking x rays in a consistancy so that they cannot be sure how much bone is distracted, which could be lead to some bad complication as malunion or non union.

I think if they start stryde, these issues of infection and control of distraction should diminish, and maybe OK to go there for CLL but right now seems way too risky.

I just wanted to let  you know this situation since the real patients cannot write a real story because of the litigation issue.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: iwanttobeabillionaire on June 15, 2018, 05:18:09 PM
The Chinese girl who went to the ICU had an allergic reaction to an antibiotic that worsened the case. The guy with the severe infection (which I mentioned before) exposed his pinsite to dirty tap water.

There is helper for every floor but only two english/chinese speaking helpers. Recently they hired a nurse full-time to change bandages and monitor patients.

Recently the X-rays had been found to be overestimated and therefore they're now moving to CAT scans for everyone to get the most accurate results. The unintended consequence is that patients lengthened .7-.8mm/day vs. the 1mm they thought they were.. could be a good and bad thing.

Maybe I am bias because I have a decent experience so far. But the results of a few should not be deterministic of a population. This surgery is tough and the results can be a roll of a die.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: myloginacc on June 15, 2018, 05:32:26 PM
So they're moving from biweekly/monthly (I don't know the schedule over there) plain X-rays to full CT scans?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: lucindaris on June 15, 2018, 06:57:15 PM
Absolutely. I understand You and ofc I am not generalizing, even Paley got bad cases. This is not an easy process that's why i want to reconsider every option.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Muller25 on June 16, 2018, 11:55:34 PM
wtf its 18k now?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on August 17, 2018, 04:27:40 AM
Hey, I just wanted to update that I am still alive and I think things are progressing slowly, but surely. I haven't used crutches for weeks. Though I still walk with a limp, especially when I've been on my feet a lot. I go to the gym and do deadlifts, squats, and other exercises, though at a reduced weight for the lower body. Upper body I'm as strong as ever. I don't have full dorsiflexion yet, but I don't have ballerina feet anymore. I do walk slowly, but I think it is getting better over time. I sometimes get the urge to run, but I can't yet. I've hopped, but haven't fully jumped. I feel normal. Biomechanics haven't changed that much. The only thing that's different is sometimes people who were previously at eye level, will say "you look taller".

I can, for instance, carry furniture and do most "normal" people activities, though I'm not way above average like I used to be. I don't feel any different. I just feel like I'm healing from an injury, which is what I tell everyone is happening.
I don't see myself playing rugby anytime in the next 2 years, but I do plan to go snowboarding again this winter if I can get further dorsiflexion by then.
This is still a huge and traumatic surgery that no one should take lightly, but at this moment, 9 months post-surgery, I still don't have any regrets.
I guess that's it for now. I'm just on break from school and wanted to update the forum on how it's going.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Android on August 17, 2018, 07:41:34 AM
Thanks for updating us normy, glad you're improving slowly but surely. Onward and upward!
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Anndr000 on October 16, 2018, 07:55:12 AM
So they say that foreigners get charge 40% more than the locals because foreigners needs to be operated at a different hospital? What about if you’re a Vietnamese citizen with a Vietnamese passport? Would you be considered a local and be charged a different price?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Hamiltonzac on October 22, 2018, 09:06:50 PM
I have actually been meaning to look into this. Is there anyway of avoiding a private hospital in Russia, lengthening with Kulesh? Because as far as I know foreign patients are required to get all surgeries and stay at Private hospitals. If anyone has more information on this I would appreciate it. 
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: on December 10, 2018, 07:35:46 AM
If you want to go to Vietnam don’t go there , they are just interested by money this is the worst choice I had ever done in my life , don’t thrust these fake diary in exchznge of discount they gave them, I am soon going to write a big diary explaining all the situation and what’s happens here
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: on December 10, 2018, 12:35:47 PM
Uugjije
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: on December 12, 2018, 02:23:20 PM
Juge
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: on December 12, 2018, 02:44:55 PM
If you want to go to Vietnam don’t go there , they are just interested by money this is the worst choice I had ever done in my life , don’t thrust these fake diary in exchznge of discount they gave them, I am soon going to write a big diary explaining all the situation and what’s happens here

Ah I received a few pm asking me. I was talking about the one in Hanoi. Didn't know this thread is about Ho Chi Minh. Sorry for the wrong post.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Astronomy on March 06, 2019, 01:30:20 PM
Hi bro How's it going?Are your post-surgery life going well?
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: From The Top Rope on April 20, 2019, 11:00:30 PM
Hey normythebear, how are things going? Would love to hear about your results and how life is going now
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: normythebear on July 12, 2023, 06:34:30 AM
Hi everyone,

I wanted to check in and let you all know that I'm doing well—physically about 97% of my pre-surgery self. I do experience some limitations with activities that involve extensive twisting and bending of the tibia/fibula, like snowboarding or heavy deadlifting. Bones naturally twist and flex a bit during such activities, I can feel the rigidity of the metal rod in my legs and some discomfort at the screw sites. Nothing like pain. Just a mild ache.

As you may recall, I've been planning to have the metal nails removed from my legs. Due to the challenges of COVID and my commitments in graduate school, this process took longer than I originally planned. I've been discussing with Thao about scheduling the removal procedure in the coming months. I'm happy to report that he's honoring our original agreement from back in 2017, so there's no additional expense for this procedure.

I've recently returned to Vietnam for the removal, but haven't scheduled a specific date yet. The cost of living is significantly lower compared to the US, and my work can be done remotely, so I'm happy to live it up here in HCMC. The main challenge is to schedule the surgery around my work commitments so that my recovery downtime has minimal impact. I ended up going to business school instead of medical school so I have more free time than I would have as a doctor and can enjoy life a bit more.

I notice a huge difference in my quality of life since doing CLL. I was a fully grown adult prior to the surgery, and the way people treat a person even slightly taller is subtle but noticeable. It is something people who are naturally tall may not realize since they became tall prior to being an adult. I have no regrets about the decision—I only wish I had done it sooner. And for those curious since my last update, I added a length of 7cm. I'm now roughly 181cm / 6 feet ish.

I don't walk funny or with a limp. I can do everything. My muscle size and definition are great for my lower legs. No one suspects anything other than my closest friends who already knew about it. And since I had a short leg/body ratio to begin with the proportions are now perfect. I'll probably post again during/after nail removal.

I'll be sure to post more updates in the future, but for now, I just wanted to share this brief update. Thanks for your ongoing support!
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: Torbjorn on July 13, 2023, 09:47:12 PM
Would it be possible to show some before/after pic of your body? also pic of the scars would be nice. Good job man!
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: palm_trees on July 23, 2023, 09:43:21 AM
Thank you so much for updating this diary friend. Many people right interesting diaries and fall off as they move on with their life.

It's great to see the long term after maths after doing such a precedure.

Many people even today would say 5 cm max for tibia, while the current clinic I am at would disagree as most people here get average 6 cm tibia. (and it is a world renowned limb lengthening doctor as well)

Would you say that 7 cm was the perfect amount for you? Do you feel like you could have been in an even better position now if you would have shortened the lengthening amount? Or are you satisfied and happy to have gotten 7, and would have done that same amount again if you had to start over. Thanks man, look forward to hearing more updates!

Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: mellowrain on August 17, 2023, 01:49:15 PM
Would you say that 7 cm was the perfect amount for you? Do you feel like you could have been in an even better position now if you would have shortened the lengthening amount? Or are you satisfied and happy to have gotten 7, and would have done that same amount again if you had to start over. Thanks man, look forward to hearing more updates!
[/quote]

I'm very curious about this too
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: shortlifelonghope on August 26, 2023, 07:41:30 PM
.
Title: Re: LON in Vietnam
Post by: mate10000w on August 31, 2023, 06:57:15 AM
How is the food and accommodations