Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: Rocky on April 25, 2018, 07:35:48 PM
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Hello everyone,
I am new to this forum and thought about sharing my LL journey here in Ukraine.
I have been talking and writing with Dr. Jamal Abu Nemer for a while and we agreed about doing a LL on my femur. So I booked a ticket and flew this week to Kiev according to the plan.
At the airport Dr. Jamal was waiting and picked me up. He took me to a clinic where I did a blood test and a scanning of my bones. After the scanning, Dr. Jamal went inside the room with another doctor, where he examined my X-Rays and measured my bones. When he came out, I was informed that everything looks well. Although my bones have a narrow passage, which could be a challenge during the operation, but it shouldn't be a big deal according to Dr. Jamal.
Later on Dr. Jamal invited me to join him for a breakfast at a restaurant, where we spent few hours chatting and discussing different things including the LL procedure and my expectations, etc.
While we were waiting for the blood test results, he took me for a quick sightseeing in Kiev which was a very nice experience. Dr. Jamal called the clinic and got a confirmation that the blood test is positive.
While we were hanging out, he was talking on the phone with the property broker, whom was planning my apartment with the owner. At the end we drove to the apartment to view it.
The apartment is a one bed with a spaces living room & kitchen and two fully renovated bathrooms.
At the end we signed the contract with the owner and paid him for 3 months in advance. I had a good chat with the owner, and he helped me to find a nearby supermarket where I bought some food to fill the fridge for the coming days.
I have been waiting in the apartment for the operation date to be confirmed, which happened today. Dr. Jamal told me that we will start operating one of the legs tomorrow. I was told to have a breakfast early in the morning around 7:30 am, but should stop eating or drinking around 8 am.
So the actual journey will begin tomorrow morning :)
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By the way. Here are some pictures of the apartment.
https://imgur.com/a/WAjKWva (https://imgur.com/a/WAjKWva)
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Been a while since we've had a Dr Jamal experience. Hope your journey goes well. Is he lengthening with the bliskunov nail?
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Thank you very much. I am waiting patiently and hoping for the best.
Yes. This is the one we will be using in my case.
He mentioned also a new nail called "Jamal Nail". But I will stick to the traditional nail.
What I found interesting during our discussion is that he uses stem cells from the bone that he cuts during the operation. Then he grows the stem cells in a laboratory and inject it back to the bone at the lengthening ending. He has done it for couple of patients and according to him, they recovered much faster (50% faster).
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What is the overall cost for surgery with Dr. Jamal?
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Hi lucindaris
The package is:
Femur: 47.700 dollars
or
Tibia: 48.800 dollars
It includes 1 month physiotherapy, leg massage, medicals and any complication treatments or surgeries if needed
Extras:
1. Appartment (He helped me to find one for 500 dollars per month)
2. Helper for 20 Euro per day (She will be 24/7 with you to cook, clean, wash, buy grocery etc.)
3. Your daily food
4. Stem cell treatment for faster recovery
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Yesterday I made another blood test after fasting before the operation. Everything was fine.
Then they measured my height. I have always thought I was 171.5 cm but they told me that I am 170.5 cm. Anyway, not that big deal.
We went to another hospital to perform the operation. I was led to the operation room and they gave me an injection in my lower back. After that I couldn't feel my legs at all. The Anesthesia doctor gives you the option to stay awake during the operation or totally go to sleep. After a while when they began, I decided to go totally to sleep.
The next thing I saw was my leg with some bandages in my room at he hospital. It is a 2 beds room. on the other bed I had my helper who was servicing me. Today she went out to buy grocery and cooked for me.
After just 24 hours from the operation, I am able to walk alone back and forth on full body weight. Ofcourse with the help of the supporting device which you can see in the picture.
https://imgur.com/a/bMAoYPW (https://imgur.com/a/bMAoYPW)
But my leg feels stiff. What used to be trivial for me, takes ages to perform now :-\ I walk VERY VERY slowly.
Dr. Jamal visited me twice today. Once in the morning and again in the evening. His wife came along and changed the bandages. She is a nurse and actually was presented during my operation.
I am getting pain killer injections every 5 hours by the nurses...
So far so good. Dr. Jamal looked at my condition and told me that we can actually leave the hospital tomorrow and go back to the apartment.
This seems to be a long journey...
I will be seeking advice along the way
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Thanks for the answer. GL with your LL journey.
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You are most welcome lucindaris :)
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Dr. Jamal sounds like a nice guy. Sounds like everything's going good so far.
20 euro per day for a helper that also cooks, sounds great.
Best of luck!
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Hi Android and thank you
So far so good. My walking got better today. But still supporting my self mostly on the untouched leg (left leg).
Yeah he is. Very social in nature. When he enters the hospital he talks and jokes with everyone.
For the helper and nurses in general. No one can speak English here. So if you don't know Russian or Ukrainian, you have a challenge.
Tip: I have downloaded an app called "VoiceTranslator". You just speak and it converts the voice to the selected language. It translates voices both ways. When the nurses or the helper want to say something I stick the mobile close to their mouth to get an English translation. :D ... This app was all worth it :)
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You chose a nice time to be Kiev as the weather is getting warmer.
I was there last week and will come back next week.
However, I do not understand why you would want to do the procedure at that Clinic if you could get one of the best doctors in Barcelona for the same price.
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Hi helloworld
Yeah the weather is fantastic here. I left the hospital today with my shorts on. Nice feeling :)
So far it is going really well. Right leg is operated and I am walking slowly using a supporter on full body weight. We will begin with the left leg in about a week.
I guess Dr. Jamal is one of those hidden secrets in the LL arena. I have a feeling that he is a very skilled doctor with no flashy marketing around him.
But only time will tell if I did the right move. So far so good. Pray for me :)
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48k dollars for Bliskunov in Kiev (where everything is extremely cheap and the average salary per month us less than 250 dollars) are extremely much money.
You could even use precise 2 in Italy for almost the same money.
But anyway, I hope everything go well for you.
Bliskunov is fully weight bearing? The lengthening is done with clicks I guess like albizzia nails, right?
What is your lengthening target?
Keep strong!
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You chose a nice time to be Kiev as the weather is getting warmer.
I was there last week and will come back next week.
However, I do not understand why you would want to do the procedure at that Clinic if you could get one of the best doctors in Barcelona for the same price.
Helloworld you're being hijacky and your propaganda is disgusting. You've been doing this for years in Guichet and Rozbruch and other patients diaries and the LL community has asked you to be banned. Mods should consider this. We have very few Jamal diaries and you shouldn't be doing your disgusting propaganda here
Please stop advertising for Dr. Monegal in this thread. Thank you!
funny how its only monegal's patients who praise him that much in an almost childish fashion... This and the fact there isnt a single monegal's diary on old forum adds alot of suspition.... I will not even talk about cooper's case and MM's hiding the fact she was not ok for months...
Tell monegal to stop sending you guys for marketing... Its just sad
How much are you getting paid to advertise like that?
Very few Dr Rozbruch diaries exist, i'd appreciate if you don't clutter this forum with shameless plugs for others. Thanks
I am sorry but this plug is shameless. Are you a staff member or the doctor himself? It seems this type of self promotion has been going on for a long time with this doctor: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150409443&pagenumber=4 ...scroll down and you can see that the Dr himself was posting and luring. And why would anyone not go to Rozburch in US for only $35k more?! If you are a REAL patient as you say, why do you feel the need to spam this site with promotions? Do you get paid or a discount, because I have seen similar post by you on other diaries.
~TT
Fkin communist propaganda is like a lullaby comparing to this crap
Haha! This definitely sounds like a Monegal sponsored ad 8)
Look, whoever you are, I'm most happy that you've completed your lengthening unscathed and successfully.
But please, if you would like to promote Monegal's business by stating that for all 8 of you, "clicking was totally painless" - PLEASE do it somewhere else because you are insulting our intelligence with your transparent motives. It is people like yourselves who mislead others into thinking that this procedure is easy and painfree.
It is damned disrespectful to use this very thread to promote another doctor's practice. It is never a GUICHET vs MONEGAL battle here, and I don't see other insecure doctors like PALEY sending their minions over to promote their dwindling businesses while bashing other doctors.
I'm sorry for you that your recovery has not been as fast as you hoped for, and I'm sure since Monegal has a perfect record of success, not being able to run faster than Usain Bolt after leg lengthening must be contrued as a complication.
In any case, when you pass GO, don't forget to collect $200 from Monegal.
I could not agree more. The Monegal situation has become worse as of late and is beginning to bring the experience here down to the point where I imagine people will no longer wish to post as to avoid being involved in/there thread devolving into the petulant, tedious and never ending discussion about Monegal. It has certainly dissuaded me from participating as it's patently obvious the direction threads will inevitably take.
The users helloworld and notimportant ought to both be given a warning for A) Forceful and zealous advertisement and recommendations of a doctor where they aren't necessary or relevant whenever possible and B) Endlessly dragging any discussion down, regardless of what it is to bashing Monegal respectively and C) Engaging in arguments between one another with endless abusive and petty comments when one posts a comment about Monegal.
Edit - I have just seen that Penguinn has told both users that warnings will be issued upon the next violation. Thank you Penguinn for attempting to resolve the issue, it is appreciated.
From both sides, their post should be deleted if this is not a mongeal thread. This is by far the worst hijacking of a thread that I have seen considering that unicorn is sharing with us the horrible experience that she is growing through. What is next taking over Chris thread as well?
It's tiring that every single thread at the moment is eventually being derailed into the exact same discussion, whether positive - through the almost advertisement like recommendations from helloworld on different doctors patient diaries such as the one and only Rozbruch diary we have or negative - from notimportant endlessly criticizing and spamming the same comments in any thread he can about Doctor Alex Monegal and I'm not sure who is damaging his reputation more.
It's tiresome and it's slowly but surely irritating everyone, driving users away and dragging the forum down. Please stop.
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Hi Body Builder
For the price. It is what it is. Nothing to do about it.
Regarding the nails topic. It is a very interesting topic you are bringing up because it was occupying my mind for several months.
I have read alot about Albizzia, Precise II and Bilskunov.
I am no expert, but what I understood is that the Bilsknuov nail is closer to natural healing in a natural way than Albizzia, because with Albizzia you need to do rotation on the bone itself. They cut the bone in the middle and you rotate the bone. As far as I read, cutting the bone in the middle is not recommended among bones professionals. I also understood that it hurts the patient during the clicking.
With the Bilskunov nail they cut the upper part of the bone which is richer in vessels than the middle of the bone. As I read it is preferred by professional bone doctors to work on the ends of the bone and not the middle. The upper bone will be fixed and not rotated like in Albizzia. For the rotation, yes you need to click like in Albizzia. But the difference is you rotate the whole leg and not the bone itself, which shouldn't give any pain during clicking.
One of the things that triggered me regarding the Russian school is Bilsknov was the first to invent the internal lengthening and Dr. Jamal was schooled by him. So he comes from the same Russian internal limb lengthening philosophy.
Regarding Precise II. I am hearing good things about it, and famous doctors like Dr. Paley uses it. It sounds like a very good option. But you can't do full weight bearing and you can lengthen up to 8 cm as a max.
With Bilskunov nail you can lengthen the bone up to 18 cm (not that it is recommended) with full weight bearing and you can also do reverse lengthening if the you regret lengthening too much or wish to have the bone shorter during the treatment due to unbearable muscles pains etc. By reverse lengthening the muscles will be relieved if you exceed your limits too much. As I understand neither Alibizzia or Precise II can do this reverse lengthening.
Again, I am no expert but I have been reading about the different nails before I decided to go with the "old-school Russian path" :)
What I also found interesting talking to Dr. Jamal was the Stem Cell treatment that he can do at the end of the LL. As I understood it will shorten your recovery time by half.
Dr. Jamal took some stem cells from my right leg and told me that he will grow them in the laboratory in case I decided to go with this treatment. It is an option, but I am strongly considering it :)
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Just a quick update friends
This morning I checked out of the hospital. Dr. Jamal and his wife drove my helper and myself back to the apartment. I was transported up to the apartment by the wheelchair.
An hour later, Dr. Jamal came back with a supporting device so I can walk freely here and some medicine and muscles creams. He instructed me to take 2 tablets every 12 hours and put the muscles cream on my leg muscle 3 times a day. He recommended me to walk from time to time to keep the muscles lean. I am not a big fan of the wheelchair, so I will stick to the supporting device.
The helper is educated to give injections. So he instructed her to give me a pain relief injection every 5 hours. I was told that the injection time will be increased later to 7 hours and so on, till we cut it totally. I just got my injection at 8 pm and will get another one at 1 am.
Here are some photos:
https://imgur.com/a/fBY5MFd (https://imgur.com/a/fBY5MFd)
The helper is preparing food in the kitchen now and I am lying down in the bedroom. I am standing up every now and then to walk around in the apartment so I can keep my muscles active.
I need to adopt to this lifestyle for the next 3 months. I have whatsapped my kids an hour ago and showed them my leg, and I'm just subscribing to Netflex to kill the time :)
If you have any recommendations for Netflex, please let me know :)
Pray for me :)
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My helper is managing my medicine and injection times. She wakes me up at night for the injection time etc. It is a big relief.
I asked her to provide me the invoices for the food she bought for the whole week. She bought some light food & groceries during the week etc.
I did the math to dollars. 17 dollars for the whole week.
She asked me to write her my menu list for the week. I am thinking about including fish meals twice a week & chicken/meat the rest of the week days. Something that is rich in protein. But I am not sure what to write to her :-\
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FYI, Precice can reverse its lengthening direction as well. You are correct that Albizzia (and Fitbone) cannot.
Didn't realize you have kids, there are a handful of parents on this forum doing LL. Just another example that family life won't stop people from wanting this surgery! And that's a good thing, CLL should be done for ourselves and not for others.
Have you seen Breaking Bad? Five very good seasons and it's on Netflix.
$17 for a week's worth of food, sounds great. Here's a guide for nutrition information (https://www.hss.edu/files/Nutrition_for_Healing.pdf). Maybe you can tell her what types of ingredients you should eat and come up with meals together.
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Thanks Android
Very informative and definitely useful.
Regarding LL and nutrition, I am still reading and learning. Its an ocean.
Oh yeah, I have 4 lovely children. I'm a family oriented man who is devoted for his family. Just after the operation, I called my little one by skype and read her night story while I was half dizzy.
And you are right, I do LL for myself and not for others. My wife and I are almost equally in height but it never bothered her. But I don't think she would mind if we were equally in height in the future while she is wearing her high heels ;)
I am new to Netflex. My teenage kid advised me to subscribe to it to kill the time. Let me check "Breaking Bad".
Thanks for the advice Android :)
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Sorry there was misunderstanding from my side regarding the helper's price. The helper is 20 US dollars per day and not Euros.
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Day 4 Update:
Nothing really earthshaking.
Dr. Jamal came by today with some water resistance wound plasters. He took all the old plasters off and put the new water proof plasters on. He told me that I can easily go to shower now.
When he left I had a 10 minutes shower under the warm water. That gave me alot of energy. I massaged my leg with the water. It felt really refreshing.
So right now, I am walking quicker inside the apartment. My muscles are getting stronger. I do basically everything by myself without help.
Even when the helper wants to pick up my glass or trash, I prefer to walk to the kitchen by myself to do it. I want to keep my right leg muscles as much lean and strong as possible, before we begin with the left leg.
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Hi Body Builder
For the price. It is what it is. Nothing to do about it.
Regarding the nails topic. It is a very interesting topic you are bringing up because it was occupying my mind for several months.
I have read alot about Albizzia, Precise II and Bilskunov.
I am no expert, but what I understood is that the Bilsknuov nail is closer to natural healing in a natural way than Albizzia, because with Albizzia you need to do rotation on the bone itself. They cut the bone in the middle and you rotate the bone. As far as I read, cutting the bone in the middle is not recommended among bones professionals. I also understood that it hurts the patient during the clicking.
With the Bilskunov nail they cut the upper part of the bone which is richer in vessels than the middle of the bone. As I read it is preferred by professional bone doctors to work on the ends of the bone and not the middle. The upper bone will be fixed and not rotated like in Albizzia. For the rotation, yes you need to click like in Albizzia. But the difference is you rotate the whole leg and not the bone itself, which shouldn't give any pain during clicking.
One of the things that triggered me regarding the Russian school is Bilsknov was the first to invent the internal lengthening and Dr. Jamal was schooled by him. So he comes from the same Russian internal limb lengthening philosophy.
Regarding Precise II. I am hearing good things about it, and famous doctors like Dr. Paley uses it. It sounds like a very good option. But you can't do full weight bearing and you can lengthen up to 8 cm as a max.
With Bilskunov nail you can lengthen the bone up to 18 cm (not that it is recommended) with full weight bearing and you can also do reverse lengthening if the you regret lengthening too much or wish to have the bone shorter during the treatment due to unbearable muscles pains etc. By reverse lengthening the muscles will be relieved if you exceed your limits too much. As I understand neither Alibizzia or Precise II can do this reverse lengthening.
Again, I am no expert but I have been reading about the different nails before I decided to go with the "old-school Russian path" :)
What I also found interesting talking to Dr. Jamal was the Stem Cell treatment that he can do at the end of the LL. As I understood it will shorten your recovery time by half.
Dr. Jamal took some stem cells from my right leg and told me that he will grow them in the laboratory in case I decided to go with this treatment. It is an option, but I am strongly considering it :)
Precise can do reverse lemgthening. And yes it was not fully weight bearing but its last generation (stryde) is.
And of course it has exceptional precision and easy magnetic lengthening.
So it is easily and by far the best nail out there. But the most expensive too.
However, Bliskunov seems superior to the obsolete albizzia crap that Guichet uses and better than fitbone in terms of reliability and weight bearing capabilities but still the money are too much for an old nail in Kiev.
But I hope that Nemer proves capable and anything goes well for you.
Keep strong!
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I wish you the best too. You deserve a good experience man.
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Hello Body Builder
Thank you for the nice wishes.
Yeah, again Precise II is a great nail. It has its strength and weaknesses. I have no idea about the new version of Precise nail, so I can't comment much about something that I don't know. It is most likely out of my budget and I would probably be able to cover both leg segments for the price of that new nail.
Anyhow, I would like to ask you something if you don't mind. You keep mentioning your concern about the cost since it is in Kiev.
Taking into consideration the full amount of treatment (the full package):
1) Internal nail for femur with painless clicking incl. all X Rays, medicines, etc.
2) 8+ cm in length
3) Full weight bearing after 12 hours of operation
4) 3 months apartment expenses incl. food & Helper 24/7 for 1 month then twice a week for 2 months (ca. 1500 dollars for 3 months in total)
5) 1 month physio therapy & Massage which can be extended if needed
6) Stem Cell treatment for shorter recovery
7) All complication treatments or surgeries are included
8 ) Fewer scars than most treatments out there
9) Doctor checking your condition twice a day
Total cost will be less than 50k dollars.
If you scan the market as of today, where would you get a better alternative economically wise for the same service?
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Hello life
Thank you very much for the good wishes. Anyone who takes this route deserves the best of luck.
I sincerely wish everyone in here good health and hopefully all your dreams will become true.
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Day 5 Update:
I am walking with normal moderate speed using the supporting device now (I was told it is called walker). When I first used the walker I had hard time lifting my right leg. As of today I can lift my right leg up to 90 degrees while I am standing on the left leg.
Dr. Jamal came with his wife today and changed the water proof plasters with new ones. He checked my condition and asked the helper to reduce the pain killer injections to twice a day instead of 5 hours frequency. So one injection in the morning and one in the evening. He feels that my body doesn't really need it that much anymore. So he will wait for 2 more days and might switch to lighter pain killer pills instead if my body is in pain.
I have no pain at all. Maybe because of the pain killer injections I have been taking lately. Lets see how it will go, once we reduce the frequency of the injections.
I have just a bit of stiffness when I wake up from bed in the morning. When I start walking to the bathroom and kitchen, the muscles become leaner very quickly.
Nothing really new. Just took another shower for refreshment and will settle down and watch Netflex :)
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Hello Body Builder
Thank you for the nice wishes.
Yeah, again Precise II is a great nail. It has its strength and weaknesses. I have no idea about the new version of Precise nail, so I can't comment much about something that I don't know. It is most likely out of my budget and I would probably be able to cover both leg segments for the price of that new nail.
Anyhow, I would like to ask you something if you don't mind. You keep mentioning your concern about the cost since it is in Kiev.
Taking into consideration the full amount of treatment (the full package):
1) Internal nail for femur with painless clicking incl. all X Rays, medicines, etc.
2) 8+ cm in length
3) Full weight bearing after 12 hours of operation
4) 3 months apartment expenses incl. food & Helper 24/7 for 1 month then twice a week for 2 months (ca. 1500 dollars for 3 months in total)
5) 1 month physio therapy & Massage which can be extended if needed
6) Stem Cell treatment for shorter recovery
7) All complication treatments or surgeries are included
8 ) Fewer scars than most treatments out there
9) Doctor checking your condition twice a day
Total cost will be less than 50k dollars.
If you scan the market as of today, where would you get a better alternative economically wise for the same service?
For an internal nail almost nowhere but with a little more money (5-7k dollars about) you could have the same in Italy with precise 2 which is far more expensive than bliskunov or any other so old nail.
I think that the money for a so cheap country and an old nail are too much and I cant compare them with EU or america where prices in everything (salaries etc) are much much more and of course up to date nails like precise which are expensive too.
For instance, 40.000 euros for precise 2 on india is not a good price compared to 50.000 for the same thing in Italy.
Thats my opinion.
But the most important is to have a good result, nothing else matters more.
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Hey Rocky, when do you start lengthening? Also your nail is similar to albizzia(as in clicking), correct?
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Hi Body Builder
I respect your opinion.
Regardless the country, I look at the service I'm getting, my budget constrains but most importantly a good result.
What you mentioned at the end is the most important part. A good result is priceless.
Wish me luck buddy :)
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Hi fivetenneeded2016
I already started lengthening from day 1. What Dr. Jamal did, he separated the bones with a small distance and he let me walk freely for a week before we start the formal clicking. While I was using the Walker, I had to get used to it, so in few times I actually twisted my foot in a certain way (by accident) so I did actually a click.
18 clicks gives 1 mm.
I probably did 5-6 accident clicks till I got used to the Walker during this week. When I asked Dr. Jamal, he said that he is expecting that.
So what will happen next, he will scan my leg next week to see the actual length after those accident clicks and begin the "planned clicking". We will aim for 18 clicks per day.
The week after we will operate my left leg and do the same procedure. So my Right leg will be a bit taller than my left leg. Once we agree to stop lengthening the right leg, Dr. Jamal will lock the clicker on the right leg and let the left leg go to the same distance.
During scanning on the first day, we found out that one of my legs is 3 mm longer than the other. He also takes this into account during the lengthening.
I hope this answered your question.
Did you already start your lengthening or is it too early?
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Day 6 Update
I am getting less pain injections now. I feel that my muscles got a bit stiffer after reducing the amount of injections. But nothing really major. I still walk back and forth inside the apartment with a moderate speed.
Dr. Jamal came by today and changed the plasters. He also demonstrated to me how he does the clicking. We did 3 clicks. He just let you lie down on your back and bend your knee in 90 degrees position and ask you to relax your leg totally. Then he twists the leg to the right and left. That gives 2 clicks. You don't feel it at all. You just hear a small click sound.
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I don't remember hearing good things about Dr. Jamal, but I guess I am mistaking him for some other doctor.
You have sensible lengthening amounts and you seem like a great guy. I hope your LL goes smoothly from start to consolidation.
Have you been getting good sleep?
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Hello myloginacct
Thank you for the nice words. I guess I'm one of the oldies here in this forum. I have a feeling that most guys in here are around 20's-30's :)
For the length, we will examine my muscles and vessels at 5 cm. If everything is well, I will go higher up. Remember I am 46 (almost 47) so my recovery might probably not be as fast as a 20 years old kid :)
My impression about Dr. Jamal so far is that he really cares about you as an individual and as a patient, and not just a professional duty that he needs to complete. He will check up on you every day including his weekends. He will also text you from time to time on phone to see if everything is fine. You feel that he is always around you.
There are not so many diaries about him. So only time will prove his capabilities as a LL specialist. I have great faith in him and the Russian LL school philosophy. But lets leave this to the next few months to be uncovered :)
For the sleep, I was sleeping around 12 hours combined during a day the first few days. When we reduced the 5 hours pain killers injections to twice a day since yesterday, I feel that I am back to my normal sleeping rhythm. I slept yesterday around 8 hours.
Are you also performing LL and if so, how is it going?
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Hi Rocky,
Just want to thank you for your diary. I have been checking on it since you started and just wanted to wish you all the best on your LL journey.
I have just receive email from Dr Monegal today and am thinking going to Spain next month for a consultation. I really hope your journey goes well as there’s not many diaries from Dr Jamal or from older parents like ourselves.
All the best
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Hello myloginacct
Thank you for the nice words. I guess I'm one of the oldies here in this forum. I have a feeling that most guys in here are around 20's-30's :)
For the length, we will examine my muscles and vessels at 5 cm. If everything is well, I will go higher up. Remember I am 46 (almost 47) so my recovery might probably not be as fast as a 20 years old kid :)
My impression about Dr. Jamal so far is that he really cares about you as an individual and as a patient, and not just a professional duty that he needs to complete. He will check up on you every day including his weekends. He will also text you from time to time on phone to see if everything is fine. You feel that he is always around you.
There are not so many diaries about him. So only time will prove his capabilities as a LL specialist. I have great faith in him and the Russian LL school philosophy. But lets leave this to the next few months to be uncovered :)
For the sleep, I was sleeping around 12 hours combined during a day the first few days. When we reduced the 5 hours pain killers injections to twice a day since yesterday, I feel that I am back to my normal sleeping rhythm. I slept yesterday around 8 hours.
Are you also performing LL and if so, how is it going?
Hey, that's great on his part. We definitely do not need any more negligent doctors in cosmetic limb lengthening, no matter how skilled they are as surgeons.
Good to hear on the sleep too. This is one of the main complaints from CLL "patients". Getting terrible sleep due to the pain. 2~4 hours a night, waking up constantly due to pain.
I'm not performing LL, but I have a general outlook of when I'll get it done.
Thanks for sharing all the pics and details, by the way. Pics are much harder to come by.
Best of luck.
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Hello Petite888
Thank you very much and I really wholehearted wish that your consultation will go well with Dr. Monegal.
Please write about it so we can follow your progress.
Are you planning for femur or tibia? Internal or external devices? And what are your expectations?
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Hi myloginacct
Thanks for the reply.
The soft skills is also important along side with the surgical capabilities.
I might share more pics and more fruitful information once we finish operating the left leg and fight the lengthening war. So far I don't consider myself began the real war. It is still a warm up :)
For the sleep, I am getting plenty of sleep. My body is very relaxed. I actually don't have pain at all. Just some tense muscle around my hip when I wake up in the morning. When I start walking to the kitchen or bathroom, it loosens up. Thats pretty much it.
So all in all, I am sleeping and eating very well. For the food, I am getting 3 different types of rich meals every single day. Food is so cheap here, so I am spoiling myself.
I would love to follow your progress once you begin your LL. Please keep us posted :)
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Day 7 Update
Nothing really new. I guess I will have small updates every day till we complete operating the left leg. I guess I will have something more fruitful to share after the second operation.
Anyhow, so far I feel that I am getting stronger, getting deep sleep every day and eating very well.
I am doing squat while using the walker and sitting on the bed as a support. It is very light and with alot of support from the bed & walker so I am not sure if I can even call it squat :D
I used to squat alot when I did boxing in my youth 30 years ago or so, so I know how useful it is for the leg muscles.
Dr. Jamal came by today where he changed some of the plasters. He did again the "clicking demonstration". We clicked 5 times.
He asked me to write down how many clicks we do during his visits including the accidental clicks that I might be doing during out the day, so we can keep up with the clicking progress. So I made a simple table in Microsoft Excel on my computer to follow up with the clicks.
We spoke about that my next operation for the left leg will be around Thursday the 10th of May. He wants to ensure that my right leg is 100% strong enough before we proceed with the left leg. Lets see.
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I have a technical question please.
I am not so good with computers in general, so I need some help. When I want to reply to someone by clicking on the "reply" button, why doesn't it show their text with my reply beneath it.
I see alot of people reply to others by showing the original message and their text beneath it.
It doesn't work for me. Can someone help please?
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When I want to reply to someone by clicking on the "reply" button, why doesn't show their text with my reply beneath it.
I see alot of people reply to others by showing the original message and their text beneath it.
Look to the top right corner of message (https://i.imgur.com/Wdgkfvl.png) you want to reply to. Click on "Quote".
You can delete whatever isn't relevant (since sometimes you just want to reply to one small section out of many paragraphs), then add your response below. Here's how it looked as I replied to this (https://i.imgur.com/ETaOqhp.png).
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Look to the top right corner of message (https://i.imgur.com/Wdgkfvl.png) you want to reply to. Click on "Quote".
You can delete whatever isn't relevant (since sometimes you just want to reply to one small section out of many paragraphs), then add your response below. Here's how it looked as I replied to this (https://i.imgur.com/ETaOqhp.png).
Testing 1 2 3
Thank you Android :)
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Day 8 Update
I had 1 hour session with Dr. Jamal today. We did 7 clicks. We are training to put my full body weight on my right leg alone. Since the operation for left leg will be next week, I have now a week to strengthen my right leg so it can take the full weight of my body. It has to be strong enough to be the leading leg, once the left is operated and will be in a healing state. Right now I am standing from time to time on my right leg while lifting the left one. I am using the walker to support a little bit, so I am not fully there yet. When I walk, I step longer time on my right leg and less on my left leg on purpose. This is what I need to work on right now and a week ahead.
Dr. Jamal brought some tablets with him. I will stop the pain killer injections from today and switch to lighter pain killer pills every 5 hours.
He examined my food menu with the helper and instructed her to add 2 fish meals in the weekly menu. She just went out to buy some fish.
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So your right leg will be bearing your full weight while you are still distracting? Wow.....good luck!
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Hi Petite888 and thanks my friend
Yes, that's the whole idea. I can stand on it shortly but I can't hold the balance for long without the walker. I am working on it.
The right leg has to be the leading leg next week.
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Hello Petite888
Thank you very much and I really wholehearted wish that your consultation will go well with Dr. Monegal.
Please write about it so we can follow your progress.
Are you planning for femur or tibia? Internal or external devices? And what are your expectations?
I will start a diary as soon as I finalize my decision on which dr I will go with. I’m hoping for ~5.5cm on femurs and who knows, maybe (a very distant maybe) 3.5cm on tibs a year down the line if I get through unscathed??
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I will start a diary as soon as I finalize my decision on which dr I will go with. I’m hoping for ~5.5cm on femurs and who knows, maybe (a very distant maybe) 3.5cm on tibs a year down the line if I get through unscathed??
Hello Petite888
Sounds really good. Those figures are definitely within a safe range so you should be fine during your recovery. Its a hard decision, but it will probably be one of the biggest decisions upon your body's condition during your life time.
I wish you all the best and hopefully you will be in safe hands to fulfill your dreams :)
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Hello Petite888
Sounds really good. Those figures are definitely within a safe range so you should be fine during your recovery. Its a hard decision, but it will probably be one of the biggest decisions upon your body's condition during your life time.
I wish you all the best and hopefully you will be in safe hands to fulfill your dreams :)
Hi Rocky,
As a female I don’t feel like I need lots of height but being 4’11” really sucks. Would be nice to experience the remaining half of my life at a relatively normal height rather than come up to every bodies armpit :D
I do also realise that everything is working against me when it comes to CLL (gender, sex, race) so I do need to be conservative and I want to be do little enough so people don’t really notice that I suddenly got soo much taller....... better they think “you look well, something different, but I can’t quite place it!” ;)
Hope you are doing well. You seem to be doing amazingly well actually that I’m almost considering going to Kiev myself ;D
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Day 8 Update
I had 1 hour session with Dr. Jamal today. We did 7 clicks. We are training to put my full body weight on my right leg alone. Since the operation for left leg will be next week, I have now a week to strengthen my right leg so it can take the full weight of my body. It has to be strong enough to be the leading leg, once the left is operated and will be in a healing state. Right now I am standing from time to time on my right leg while lifting the left one. I am using the walker to support a little bit, so I am not fully there yet. When I walk, I step longer time on my right leg and less on my left leg on purpose. This is what I need to work on right now and a week ahead.
Dr. Jamal brought some tablets with him. I will stop the pain killer injections from today and switch to lighter pain killer pills every 5 hours.
He examined my food menu with the helper and instructed her to add 2 fish meals in the weekly menu. She just went out to buy some fish.
Hi Rocky, be careful and avoid standing on one leg. You are risking your nail might break due to fatigue failure if you intentionally put a lot of load on it. TBH, the whole thing about leading leg sounds a bit weird. You should see to it you load your legs equally.
Wishing you all the best.
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Hi Rocky, be careful and avoid standing on one leg. You are risking your nail might break due to fatigue failure if you intentionally put a lot of load on it. TBH, the whole thing about leading leg sounds a bit weird. You should see to it you load your legs equally.
Wishing you all the best.
Hi hanshi
Thanks for your message. The Bliskunov nail that I have chosen is made out of Titanium. It comes in different diameters. I can't remember the figures exactly, but as I was explained the one I have can take up to 120+ kg of load. We are talking about just one nail here. Once I get two nails in both legs, it will double up. That's one of the reasons why I didn't want to go with other modern nails and chose this old-school Russian nail.
I got a detailed explanation how it is stabilized during the operation but I remember half of it. It was something about that they don't just mount the nail and the bone with screws, but they also put screws to hold the screws for extra stability.
I am actually doing full weight bearing on one leg, but I still lose my balance. It got better today, but I'm still not there yet.
So from that angle, I am not worried.
Regarding the one leg thing. I was informed that having the two legs operated on the same day is not something that is recommended. Many reputative doctors do it, but it will put an unessasiry and impleasant pressure on the patient to start weight bearing in a slow manner. I got also a detailed explanation about that part too, but I don't remember all the details. All what I can tell you, I would have suffered doing my daily routines if I had both legs in a weak condition just after the operation. It was a big relief to have the left leg supporting me and get the right leg to a stronger state where it will be taking over the load at some point.
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Day 9 Update
Same daily routine so nothing really new. I am clicking, walking, eating healthy, sleeping deeply and being checked up by Dr. Jamal every day.
I was told that my legs are ready for more exercise. From tomorrow I need to walk every 3 hours for 30 minutes, 3 to 4 times a day. I have to walk slowly and not in a rush, and it is recommended to just stand from time to time for 1 to 2 minutes during the walking. I was informed that just standing is a very important duty during the exercise.
My walking plan for tomorrow will be as follow:
09:00 - 9:30 am
12:30 - 1:00 pm
04:00 - 4:30 pm
07:30 - 08:00 pm (Optional)
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Hi Rocky,
As a female I don’t feel like I need lots of height but being 4’11” really sucks. Would be nice to experience the remaining half of my life at a relatively normal height rather than come up to every bodies armpit :D
I do also realise that everything is working against me when it comes to CLL (gender, sxx, race) so I do need to be conservative and I want to be do little enough so people don’t really notice that I suddenly got soo much taller....... better they think “you look well, something different, but I can’t quite place it!” ;)
Hope you are doing well. You seem to be doing amazingly well actually that I’m almost considering going to Kiev myself ;D
Hi Petite888
Sorry for being late on my reply.
I think you should look more positively at your situation.
For the height: 4’11 is not that bad for a female. Statistics show that alot of men get attracted to shorter women, so it shouldn't be hindering you with the opposite gender.
For the gender: Whats wrong with being a female! You know that women had a lot of influence on the world's history and economics than we do realize. In most homes, women rule even men don't like to admit it. In our neighborhood, people think that I am ruling the house. But in reality, it is my wife ;D
For the race: Hmm. I don't know which race you are from. But be proud of your race no matter what!
Regarding the lengthening and if people will notice it or not. Screw it all. Do what pleases you and not what pleases others. If you wish to get 2 inches taller, do it. If you wish to reach 4 inches (probably in two steps), then just do it.
Do what makes you feel happy deep inside, and forget about our environments expectations.
Again: Screw others opinion.
Lastly, regarding my experience in Kiev. So far so good. Give it couple of months to see Dr. Jamal's capabilities. So far everything is going by the book. But remember, we didn't start with the left leg yet. We are just scratching the surface so far. Only time will uncover the final result :)
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Day 10 Update
As planned, I walked today 3 x 30 minutes with 3 hours breaking intervals. I'm just putting music on and going back and forth in the apartment. The daily walking routines such as showering, going back and forth to the kitchen and bathroom are not calculated in the 30 minutes walking exercises. My right leg feels stronger and stronger every day.
The weather is very hot outside and I don't feel like leaving the apartment. I'm more than fine being inside.
Dr. Jamal came by and we did 7 clicks. Every 18 clicks gives 1 mm, so we are clicking with a slow rate now.
We will do a scanning in couple of days to measure the distance achieved so far. Lets see.
Next step: Netflex :)
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Hi Petite888
Sorry for being late on my reply.
I think you should look more positively at your situation.
For the height: 4’11 is not that bad for a female. Statistics show that alot of men get attracted to shorter women, so it shouldn't be hindering you with the opposite gender.
For the gender: Whats wrong with being a female! You know that women had a lot of influence on the world's history and economics than we do realize. In most homes, women rule even men don't like to admit it. In our neighborhood, people think that I am ruling the house. But in reality, it is my wife ;D
For the race: Hmm. I don't know which race you are from. But be proud of your race no matter what!
Regarding the lengthening and if people will notice it or not. Screw it all. Do what pleases you and not what pleases others. If you wish to get 2 inches taller, do it. If you wish to reach 4 inches (probably in two steps), then just do it.
Do what makes you feel happy deep inside, and forget about our environments expectations.
Again: Screw others opinion.
Lastly, regarding my experience in Kiev. So far so good. Give it couple of months to see Dr. Jamal's capabilities. So far everything is going by the book. But remember, we didn't start with the left leg yet. We are just scratching the surface so far. Only time will uncover the final result :)
Hi Rocky,
Glad to hear that everything is going well so far, even if you are just scratching the surface, your diary is inspiring nonetheless.
For the height: 4’11 is not that bad for a female. Statistics show that alot of men get attracted to shorter women, so it shouldn't be hindering you with the opposite gender.
For the gender: Whats wrong with being a female! You know that women had a lot of influence on the world's history and economics than we do realize. In most homes, women rule even men don't like to admit it. In our neighborhood, people think that I am ruling the house. But in reality, it is my wife ;D
For the race: Hmm. I don't know which race you are from. But be proud of your race no matter what!
I think I must have been a tad unclear. I am proud of my age, race and gender but it’s just not helpful when it comes to limb lengthening. From reading journals on this forum, it seems that older people, women and people from E Asia have the hardest time when it comes to limb lengthening and I am all 3 so I have to be extra careful.
Also I am doing this for myself and not to attract men. To be honest, even as short as I am I have never had a problem with men and with 2 kids and mid life, I’m not to bothered about men at the moment. I spent years trying to get out of my last relationship as it is!......haha. It would just be nice to buy a a pair of trousers off the rack, and not have to alter them, look nice in a dress without 4 inch 👠, or not have to tip toe at the kitchen sink......things normal people can do. Oh the worse is getting on the subway in rush hour and being stuck under somebodies armpit for 3 stops! YUK!!
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Day 13 Update: (7mm Right Leg)
I thought about writing an update when I have something more fruitful to share.
Regarding my condition, my right leg is getting stronger and stronger.
I thought that I could only sleep on my back at night which I found uncomfortable because I am not used to it. I always sleep on the sides. But when I consulted Dr. Jamal he informed me that I can sleep on any side I want as long I feel comfortable. So I am now sleeping on my sides at night. Ofcourse the untouched left side is more comfortable than the right side.
I have also got crutches which gives me a lot of freedom to move around comparing to the walker. Its much faster to walk now and a total different feeling. You feel you become a free bird :)
I noticed that the affects from the pain killer tablets are not as powerful as the injections. When I get the tables, my muscles are somehow tense when I walk. While the injection makes me walk without discomfort at all. So I am asking my helper to give me injections whenever I want to exercise to get the best out of my muscles activation. The pain killer injections last for 5-6 hours. This is all what I need to perform my daily exercises. Sometimes when I work till late at night, I feel my muscles get tense again so I ask her for another injection before I go to sleep.
But the interesting part today was the X Ray result. I asked Dr. Jamal to provide me the CT scanning image before the operation and the X Ray from today. It seems that I have grown 7 mm on the right leg so far.
Here are the before and after images:
https://imgur.com/a/oI2Lzgk (https://imgur.com/a/oI2Lzgk)
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Hi Rocky,
Glad to hear that everything is going well so far, even if you are just scratching the surface, your diary is inspiring nonetheless.
I think I must have been a tad unclear. I am proud of my age, race and gender but it’s just not helpful when it comes to limb lengthening. From reading journals on this forum, it seems that older people, women and people from E Asia have the hardest time when it comes to limb lengthening and I am all 3 so I have to be extra careful.
Also I am doing this for myself and not to attract men. To be honest, even as short as I am I have never had a problem with men and with 2 kids and mid life, I’m not to bothered about men at the moment. I spent years trying to get out of my last relationship as it is!......haha. It would just be nice to buy a a pair of trousers off the rack, and not have to alter them, look nice in a dress without 4 inch 👠, or not have to tip toe at the kitchen sink......things normal people can do. Oh the worse is getting on the subway in rush hour and being stuck under somebodies armpit for 3 stops! YUK!!
Hi Petite888
I am really glad to read what you wrote.
In the beginning I thought you were an insecure teenage kid. I know it from my own teenage kid, so I was communicating with you the way I would do with my kid. But it seems that I misunderstood your message. Sorry about that.
I know exactly how you feel about buying a pair of trousers off the rack. In my case I go to dancing classes with my wife. It would be nice to be the same height as her, while she has her heels on. Normally she avoids too high heels, but I would like to see her wearing very high heels while I'm looking her in the eyes.
You made me laugh hard regarding the subway thing. Tell you what? Get 2-3 inches taller and be the one giving others the armpits torture. Armpits revenge :D ;D
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I know exactly how you feel about buying a pair of trousers off the rack. In my case I go to dancing classes with my wife. It would be nice to be the same height as her, while she has her heels on. Normally she avoids too high heels, but I would like to see her wearing very high heels while I'm looking her in the eyes.
What about elevator shoes? Have you ever used them before?
I hope the pain and sleep have been manageable, by the way!
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What about elevator shoes? Have you ever used them before?
I hope the pain and sleep have been manageable, by the way!
Hi myloginacct
I am not sure what you mean by elevator shoes. I guess shoes with high heels for men? Isn't used typically for medical treatments or so?
I'm sleeping very well. Thanks for asking. I don't really have pain but I get muscles tension if I'm not getting any sort of pain killers for long time. But I realized that pain killer injections are more powerful than the tablets, if I need to keep going on with zero tension.
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Hi myloginacct
I am not sure what you mean by elevator shoes. I guess shoes with high heels for men? Isn't used typically for medical treatments or so?
I'm sleeping very well. Thanks for asking. I don't really have pain but I get muscles tension if I'm not getting any sort of pain killers for long time. But I realized that pain killer injections are more powerful than the tablets, if I need to keep going on with zero tension.
There are shoes many people here use to get increased height in everyday life. I was just wondering if you used or would have considered using some of those before!
Glad to hear things still seem to be going very well.
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I was not aware of those type of shoes but I have searched on google to read about it. You should have told me about those shoes few weeks ago before doing LL :D
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Day 15 Update:
My operation for left leg is postponed for few days. So I am waiting the final confirmation for the date and time.
I was told how to click the device by my self few days back. I found out how easy it is.
When I sit on the chair I need to have both legs close together. Then I move my right foot in a zig zag fashion away from the left foot. Just few steps and I hear a clear "click" sound. Then I pull my leg back to the starting position and repeat.
The whole clicking takes between 1-2 minutes depending on how fast I do it.
I started doing it as a practice while I am eating breakfast every morning.
One more detail: I am lying on both sides of my body very easily when I am in bed. Yesterday I also slept for a while on my stomach. Ofcourse the right side is the most uncomfortable of all positions.
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good to know you're doing fine, man! keep going
this is an interesting diary tho.
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good to know you're doing fine, man! keep going
this is an interesting diary tho.
Thank you very much my good friend.
I read your email today. I will reply to you shortly.
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Day 25 Update:
I haven't been updating my journey for a while. I thought I would wait a bit till I have more information on my left leg.
Left leg operation was done last week. I am back at the apartment now and waiting for my left leg to recover. I can't emphasize how helpful my right leg is regarding the weight bearing. My left leg is very weak right now, so the right leg is taking almost all the heavy load when I go back and forth to e.g. the bathroom, when I sit on a chair, etc.
Dr. Jamal is checking up on me every day as usually. He has been checking the wounds on my left leg every evening and changing the plasters. He gave me today waterproof plasters on the left leg. By the way, I have no more plasters on my right leg. The stitches are also removed.
He helped me to enter the shower with the walker to take my first shower after a week now and waited for me in the kitchen with my helper. It was very refreshing to take a warm shower after almost a week.
We did also our first few clicks on the left leg. We did only 7 clicks today.
Otherwise I am clicking 18 clicks on right leg every day (1 mm per day). There were couple of days at the hospital after the left leg operation where I was exhausted, so I didn't do any clicking. But I am back on track on the right leg clicking routine.
We are waiting for the left leg to get more strength so we can start clicking 1 mm per day too.
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Dear experts
I can see from the forum that the majority talks about lengthening 1 mm per day. Even Dr. Jamal advised me to click 1 mm every day.
Just out of curiosity. Is it unheard that anyone from here (trying to reach about 5 cm in total) ever clicked 1.5 mm or 2 mm per day without complications?
Its just a thought that crossed my mind, so I thought I would hear it from you experts.
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Dear experts
I can see from the forum that the majority talks about lengthening 1 mm per day. Even Dr. Jamal advised me to click 1 mm every day.
Just out of curiosity. Is it unheard that anyone from here (trying to reach about 5 cm in total) ever clicked 1.5 mm or 2 mm per day without complications?
Its just a thought that crossed my mind, so I thought I would hear it from you experts.
So big distraction rate will lead to nerve damage and soft tissue problems, even it may cause non union.
So there is no reason at all to lengthen mire than 1mm. On the contrast, I would suggest even less like 0.66mm per day, especially on tibias.
Slow lengthening makes consolidation easier and safer. Fast lengthening could easily cripple the patient.
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So big distraction rate will lead to nerve damage and soft tissue problems, even it may cause non union.
So there is no reason at all to lengthen mire than 1mm. On the contrast, I would suggest even less like 0.66mm per day, especially on tibias.
Slow lengthening makes consolidation easier and safer. Fast lengthening could easily cripple the patient.
Thanks for the explanation Body Builder
Interesting to know that.
By the way, I click 0,5 mm in the morning and 0,5 mm in the evening. I saw some youtube videos where patients are lengthening 0.25 mm four time a day. Do you know if it makes any difference?
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Day 30 Update:
I am still clicking the right leg as expected. I sometimes give it extra clicks during the day. According to my counting, I should have passed 2 cm on right leg by now. So I would guess I am as a minimum around 172.5 cm by now, taking right leg calculation only into consideration.
Since my left leg is still weak, Dr. Jamal is helping me clicking it during his visits. We increased the clicks today to 1 mm per day.
Regarding my walking, I am still relying alot on the right leg to support my weight. I can ofcourse stand still with both legs without any issues. I do it for example when I brush my teeth or do other daily activities. I can ofcourse feel that the left leg is getting stronger every day, but it is going slower comparing to my right leg after the first operation.
I asked my helper to stop giving me the 5 hours injections today. I switched to the pain killer pills. I will give it till tomorrow and see how it will go. I might go back to less injections and add the pills as a supplement into the daily routine or just stick to the pills only.
When I watch Netflex, I am lying in bed either on my right side or my back. The left side is not ready yet. I will give it a week or two till it becomes stronger and we remove the stitches from left leg.
I'm very excited about future progress in June. It will be very interesting.
Other than that. I'm eating healthy & sleeping well. So far so good.
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Glad you're doing well Rocky, hope that your pain management to pills is a smooth transition.
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Thanks my friend Android. So far its going fine. The muscles are a bit stiffer when I take the pills. But it is manageable.
Unless it becomes worse, I will keep taking pills instead of injections.
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Day 34 Update:
I am clicking now both legs every day. I split the clicks for the right leg during the day. I still can't click the left leg alone since it is still weak. So I wait for the evening time to get it done by Dr. Jamal's help.
I can walk back and forth and perform daily activities and do full weight bearing without issues, but my walking has decreased due the fact that my left leg is still recovering.
I have noticed that my hamstrings muscles on the right leg are beginning to be tight when I stand still.
I have consulted Dr. Jamal about it and he said that is it expected and it will be more tense the more I lengthen. His advice was to keep walking during the day, so I can keep the muscles active. He also advised to sit in the shower tube and fill it with hot water to relax the muscles. I was also informed to stretch as much as possible and put a pillow below my feet when I am laying in bed. That way, my hamstrings will be stretched. I started doing so and I can feel how tense they are when I stretch this way.
Another detail about pain killer injections. I stopped the injections totally and I am getting pain killer tablets every 4 hours. It is working fine with me this way.
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Good luck Rocky, I wish you a decent recovery. Very precise and detailed diary. Good for future patients. Its nice to know your family supports you and you have great motivation for recovery, much respect!
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Good to hear everything is going pretty well. Hang in there you have our support and thank you for continuing to update the diary.
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Good luck Rocky, I wish you a decent recovery. Very precise and detailed diary. Good for future patients. Its nice to know your family supports you and you have great motivation for recovery, much respect!
Hello Hamiltonzac
Thank you very much. Limb lengthening is a lengthy process. You click day-in/day-out and try to occupy your self to kill the day. If you don't surround your self with family or friends, even if it is online, it can be a very lonely journey. I have completed my first month and looking for another two months or so. I hope it will be a smooth journey all the way.
Good luck to you too in the future.
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Good to hear everything is going pretty well. Hang in there you have our support and thank you for continuing to update the diary.
Hello Johnson1111
Thank you very much. So far so good. I'd always appreciate any advises or support for the experts in here. Did you do limb lengthening or just about to?
Have a pleasant evening.
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Day 35 Update:
Not much new. Since few days I have been asking Dr. Jamal to replace my Russian speaking helper with an English speaking helper.
I told Dr. Jamal that I am not expecting the helper to have a PhD. in English. If she just can pick up simple words in English, its more than enough for me.
Frankly speaking I had language difficulties with the previous helper. She didn't know any word in English and I don't know any word in Russian. Every time I wanted to say something or she wanted to communicate with me, we had to use my translator app on my mobile or Google Translator. Sometimes the app gave strange translations and in few cases we just didn't know how to communicate.
Today was the last day for my previous helper. He introduced me to another helper who can speak a little bit English. She uses simple words in English, but it is more than enough for me to have a smooth communication.
It is a big relief that I don't have to carry my mobile with me or go back to my laptop to open Google Translator to be able to communicate.
Since I can walk freely and can take care of myself without issues, we agreed that she will only be at the apartment for max 5 hours daily. She will buy grocery, cook, clean, wash my clothes, and make sure I don't miss anything, etc. and then leave home once she is done. I promised that I will still give her full day payment.
I'd like to have some privacy. Especially when I talk online (loudly ;D) and get silly with my wife and kids :) so this agreement is perfect for me.
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Day 42 Update: (Right Leg = 3,8 cm & Left Leg = 2,5 cm)
The latest updates are as follow.
The back muscle of the right leg started to be more tense now. I mean the hamstrings muscle. That means when I walk my knee is bending a little bit. Left leg is still straight while I am walking but I started feeling a minor tension in the left hamstrings muscles as well.
I am still clicking twice a day with Dr. Jamal's help. We are doing different amount of clicks every day but its higher than 1 mm per day. Dr. Jamal visits me around noon time where we do half of the clicks and in the evening we complete the remaining clicks. The nail that I am using clicks only when you relax your leg. After I passed around the 2 cm, I tend to not relax my muscles when I try to click alone. Therefor the nail does not give any sound when I do it while I am tense.
When Dr. Jamal does it, he holds my leg and moves it gently back and forth and from side to side several times to make the muscle relax. Then he starts clicking. It goes smoothly when he does it, so I decided to let him to it on my behalf and save me alot of efforts during the day.
Now that we have passed more than 1 month, it is time to begin with physio therapy. So he is planning with a Russian physio therapist to begin the daily treatment. I will hear more about the details in the coming few days.
Today we did X-Ray scanning to examine both legs. We are now around 3,8 cm for right leg and 2,5 for the left leg.
I have 1,2 cm left to reach 5 cm on right leg, and I am thinking: "Is that it??? It went fast".
Maybe I should go higher than 5 cm! ;D
Here are some photos.
https://imgur.com/a/e4zBEon (https://imgur.com/a/e4zBEon)
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Hello experts... I need your help please :)
I have been thinking all night about my new height after yesterday's X-Ray. I couldn't sleep thinking about it :)
I am very close to my goal (5 cm) on right leg, and it went easier than what I was expecting. I am therefor thinking about changing my goal to a higher height. Although I am very excited now, but I am trying to think rational.
Will anything between 7-10 cm on my femurs be too greedy? I'd really like to have a second opinion or advice from experts like you guys.
Pros/Cons from real life experience? From other people that you know maybe?
Please help :)
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Hello experts... I need your help please :)
I have been thinking all night about my new height after yesterday's X-Ray. I couldn't sleep thinking about it :)
I am very close to my goal (5 cm) on right leg, and it went easier than what I was expecting. I am therefor thinking about changing my goal to a higher height. Although I am very excited now, but I am trying to think rational.
Will anything between 7-10 cm on my femurs be too greedy? I'd really like to have a second opinion or advice from experts like you guys.
Pros/Cons from real life experience? From other people that you know maybe?
Please help :)
I'm pre LL but from experiences i've read and what i've heard from doctors i've spoke with that do the surgery, 3 inches seems to be the upper "fairly safe" limit for patients. So I believe that's around 7.63cm ( I suck at the conversions ) if i'm not mistaken or around there. Anything higher than that and I believe you are put in the "moderate/high risk" category.
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I'm pre LL but from experiences i've read and what i've heard from doctors i've spoke with that do the surgery, 3 inches seems to be the upper "fairly safe" limit for patients. So I believe that's around 7.63cm ( I suck at the conversions ) if i'm not mistaken or around there. Anything higher than that and I believe you are put in the "moderate/high risk" category.
Many thanks dear Johnson1111. I guess your conversion is fine my friend.
But I was wondering about what does it mean to be in a moderate/high risk category? I mean, what could go wrong if I go for anything between 7-10 cm? I'm really curious to know.
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7CM is best for me no disproportion
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7CM is best for me no disproportion
Hi Christopherbulder
7 cm is a respectable amount. No doubt. But disproportion is the cosmetic part of it. I wanted to understand the risks going above 7 cm.
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Day 44 Update:
Today was probably the most relaxing day since my journey.
I've got a visit from the Russian physiotherapist. I've got 2 hours oil massage for both legs. 1 hour per leg.
That was amazing. It was like flying to heaven and come back 8)
From now on I will be getting 2 hours massage every day as part of the treatment.
I strongly recommend having physiotherapy massages included as part of anyone's journey.
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I looked at your xray and your callous looks very weak. Whats the diameter of the nails?
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I looked at your xray and your callous looks very weak. Whats the diameter of the nails?
Hello doomsday
What is a callous exactly? And how can you tell it is weak?
I will ask about the diameter today. I don't remember that information.
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Hello doomsday
What is a callous exactly? And how can you tell it is weak?
I will ask about the diameter today. I don't remember that information.
Callous is the bone bridge between two sides of the bone after the break.
Indeed it is very weak and you risk non union. Ask your doctor to stop lengthening for a few days and if callus remains so weak I dont believe you can lengthen much more or you'll end up with a non union.
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I looked at your xray and your callous looks very weak. Whats the diameter of the nails?
Hello doomsday
I have Dr. Jamal visiting me now. He informed me that the diameter of the nail is 12.5 mm.
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Callous is the bone bridge between two sides of the bone after the break.
Indeed it is very weak and you risk non union. Ask your doctor to stop lengthening for a few days and if callus remains so weak I dont believe you can lengthen much more or you'll end up with a non union.
Hello Body Builder
I am consulting Dr. Jamal right now. He is informing me that it is too early to judge the callous after a month of my lengthening. Regarding non union, he has different methods to solve it. One of them is the stem cell treatment that I will be getting at the end of my lengthening, which is a new and effective method. He has also other traditional ways regarding non union. So this is his least concern.
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Hello Body Builder
I am consulting Dr. Jamal right now. He is informing me that it is too early to judge the callous after a month of my lengthening. Regarding non union, he has different methods to solve it. One of them is the stem cell treatment that I will be getting at the end of my lengthening, which is a new and effective method. He has also other traditional ways regarding non union. So this is his least concern.
I dont know what methods Nemer has to treat non unions.
But if the gap is big, no much things can be done, like Unicorn's case where she may need to shorten the gap and lengthen again as a last solution.
So dont trust blindly your doctor like Unicorn did and ened up with an 8cm non union, non unions are the first concern after infection, not the last. With almost non existent calus I wouldn't lengthen further until it gets thicker otherwise you are risking troubles.
Anyway, on your next x ray if your calus is so minimum you should stop asap. But I hope it gets better.
Keep strong!
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Day 47 Update:
Today was a relaxing day. I've got my oil massage on both legs (fantastic as always) ;D, watched a couple of movies and did the daily clicking. So nothing really new.
I heard some noise when Dr. Jamal came to visit me just before. He brought with him a step machine and placed it in the living room. He asked me to start using it slowly during the day to keep my muscles active and strengthen them.
I haven't tried it yet. I will test it out tomorrow morning.
This is how it looks like:
https://imgur.com/a/92tTkiW (https://imgur.com/a/92tTkiW)
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I dont know what methods Nemer has to treat non unions.
But if the gap is big, no much things can be done, like Unicorn's case where she may need to shorten the gap and lengthen again as a last solution.
So dont trust blindly your doctor like Unicorn did and ened up with an 8cm non union, non unions are the first concern after infection, not the last. With almost non existent calus I wouldn't lengthen further until it gets thicker otherwise you are risking troubles.
Anyway, on your next x ray if your calus is so minimum you should stop asap. But I hope it gets better.
Keep strong!
I'm afraid I have to trust my doctor. He is more qualified to guide me through my journey ;)
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Stop with lengthening until you see some growth, then you can continue. And nonunion is not a small matter. Please take it seriously, we want the best for you mate.
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Stop with lengthening until you see some growth, then you can continue. And nonunion is not a small matter. Please take it seriously, we want the best for you mate.
Hello Shadow91
No one is neglecting the seriousness of the non union matter.
If it is the case, stem cells treatment will do the job.
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Hello Shadow91
No one is neglecting the seriousness of the non union matter.
If it is the case, stem cells treatment will do the job.
If that was the case, Unicorn's situation would be solved already. That is, there would be an existing treatment for her big non-union.
Take the advice from the vets seriously.
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If that was the case, Unicorn's situation would be solved already. That is, there would be an existing treatment for her big non-union.
Take the advice from the vets seriously.
Hello myloginacc
I don't know who Unicorn is and how she was treated, so I can't comment on her situation.
Stem cells treatment needs to be done at the day the lengthening stops. I am not sure if she had it just after they stopped the device or not, or if she had it at all.
No one so far gave me a qualified answer why they think the callous looks weak. Besides that you can't tell that after 1 month of lengthening, as far I was explained.
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stem cells wont do sh!t if there is no callous. Stem cells can only speed up calcification. Huge difference.
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stem cells wont do sh!t if there is no callous. Stem cells can only speed up calcification. Huge difference.
Apart from the word "S...", that is a scientifically qualified answer that I will buy ;) Stem cells needs something to build on. And if there is no callous at all, there are methods such as implanting bone grafts and applying stem cells to provoke the growth.
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Apart from the word "S...", that is a scientifically qualified answer that I will buy ;) Stem cells needs something to build on. And if there is no callous at all, there are methods such as implanting bone grafts and applying stem cells to provoke the growth.
Yes, but the (nonunion) gap may have become too big for most attempts to work, like in Unicorn's case. That's why you need to be careful.
As Body Builder said, LL is not a time attack. If you went and got yourself in a surgery like this, you need to make sure you come out in the best shape possible.
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Yes, but the (nonunion) gap may have become too big for most attempts to work, like in Unicorn's case. That's why you need to be careful.
As Body Builder said, LL is not a time attack. If you went and got yourself in a surgery like this, you need to make sure you come out in the best shape possible.
Hello myloginacc
Yes that is understandable. I fully agree with you.
Everyone wants to come out of such a treatment in the best shape possible.
I just don't like the tone or lack of communication skills by some members in here. I find it somehow immature.
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Important
Dear members
I would kindly and sincerely ask you to not use any bad words in my diary. My family reads this diary every day, including my 6 years old kid who is learning how to read.
I know that I can't demand or dictate it, but I am asking sincerely and kindly to select your words carefully which is suitable for such a respectable forum and is somehow "family friendly".
Again, I can't force you to do so. Its just a friendly ask from a carrying dad.
Thank you for your understanding and may God protect and bless you all.
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Could the slower callous formation be due to his older age than say someone in their late teens or 20s? I know it is a possible occursnce regardless but maybe people in 40s should lengthen slower in comparison?
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Important
Dear members
I would kindly and sincerely ask you to not use any bad words in my diary. My family reads this diary every day, including my 6 years old kid who is learning how to read.
I know that I can't demand or dictate it, but I am asking sincerely and kindly to select your words carefully which is suitable for such a respectable forum and is somehow "family friendly".
Again, I can't force you to do so. Its just a friendly ask from a carrying dad.
Thank you for your understanding and may God protect and bless you all.
That's understandable. I'll be more mindful too.
Could the slower callous formation be due to his older age than say someone in their late teens or 20s? I know it is a possible occursnce regardless but maybe people in 40s should lengthen slower in comparison?
That's not a question for any of us to answer... We don't have the qualifications. The science on this is pretty mixed.
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That's understandable. I'll be more mindful too.
That's not a question for any of us to answer... We don't have the qualifications. The science on this is pretty mixed.
Thank you myloginacc. May God protect you.
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About Stem Cells Treatment
Dear members
Since we had some discussions around stem cells treatment, I consulted Dr. Jamal during his visit to educate myself and understand how he actually does it.
I thought till today that I knew what it was. But I discovered that I have a lot to learn about the topic.
Let me explain to you for those who might be interested in this topic.
The procedure is as follow:
1) Stem Cells harvesting: When the bone is cut during the surgery, the doctor takes stem cells samples from the bone. The stem cells are not hard bone tissues. Its actually a liquid they suck out in small doses.
2) Stem Cells maintenance: The stem cells are sent to the laboratory where they will be treated, kept in specialized containers and maintained for several months or years.
3) Stem Cells treatment: With the stem cells you can develop any tissue in the body (muscles, nerves, bones, callous, etc.). At the laboratory, they prepare 3 doses from the taken original stem cells:
3a) Osteoclast (bone): This will be injected between bone gaps to create callous.
3b) myoblast (muscles): This will be injected in places where muscles could have been damaged to re-create new muscles.
3c) Neuroblast (nerves): This will be injected in the places where the nerves might have been damaged to re-create new nerves.
3d) Original Stem Cells liquid: And lastly the original stem cells liquid will be injected in the patient vessel, e.g. the arm vessel, and not in the bone area as I thought earlier.
4) PRP: As an extra service, he includes also Platelet-Rich Plasma (PRP) Injections at the end of the course for better health.
Dr. Jamal performs also other old school treatments such as bone grafting or implants and mix it with the new stem cells treatment.
The interesting part is, with the stem cells taken from your body, as mentioned earlier, you can create any tissue in the human body. In the laboratory they can create a full human bone that can be inserted directly in the gap after the lengthening. It is costly but it can be done.
That's why non union can be fixed with today's new technology without issues. The thing is, not so many LL doctors are specialized in stem cells treatment or tissue re-creation from scratch. Few LL Surgeons around the world apply this treatment as part of the lengthening program. They can probably be counted on few fingers.
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Day 48 Update:
Couple of days ago I started noticing that when I lay down in bed for long time, my right knee becomes very tight and it hurts.
I was telling the physio therapist about it yesterday during the massage time.
In today's session, the physio therapist brought a very tiny needle with insulin syringe liquid. I got small injections in the right knee. Magically the pain in the knee vanished in about 3 hours. I feel much better now.
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Congratulations on your progress. It was really interesting to read how they do the stem cell treatment. I believe that Ukraine is the leading country when it comes to stem cell research development. I remember last year reasearching into Emcell which is the most advanced (to my knowledge) stem cell research developement clinic in the world. This is largely due to the fact that a lot of western countries put a lot of bans/restrictions on stem cell research for ethical reasons, which Ukraine is not affected by.
Even so please remember that the stem cell/ bone graft can come at a costly price (and I’m not talking just money) please be weary when lengthening so quickly as contrary to your belief, I believe, after reading a lot of other diaries on here that callus’s should be showing by now.
Good luck and I wish you the best possible ending to your journey :)
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About Stem Cells Treatment
Dear members
Since we had some discussions around stem cells treatment, I consulted Dr. Jamal during his visit to educate myself and understand how he actually does it.
I thought till today that I knew what it was. But I discovered that I have a lot to learn about the topic.
Let me explain to you for those who might be interested in this topic.
The procedure is as follow:
1) Stem Cells harvesting: When the bone is cut during the surgery, the doctor takes stem cells samples from the bone. The stem cells are not hard bone tissues. Its actually a liquid they suck out in small doses.
2) Stem Cells maintenance: The stem cells are sent to the laboratory where they will be treated, kept in specialized containers and maintained for several months or years.
3) Stem Cells treatment: With the stem cells you can develop any tissue in the body (muscles, nerves, bones, callous, etc.). At the laboratory, they prepare 3 doses from the taken original stem cells:
3a) Osteoclast (bone): This will be injected between bone gaps to create callous.
3b) myoblast (muscles): This will be injected in places where muscles could have been damaged to re-create new muscles.
3c) Neuroblast (nerves): This will be injected in the places where the nerves might have been damaged to re-create new nerves.
3d) Original Stem Cells liquid: And lastly the original stem cells liquid will be injected in the patient vessel, e.g. the arm vessel, and not in the bone area as I thought earlier.
4) PRP: As an extra service, he includes also Platelet-Rich Plasma (PRP) Injections at the end of the course for better health.
Dr. Jamal performs also other old school treatments such as bone grafting or implants and mix it with the new stem cells treatment.
The interesting part is, with the stem cells taken from your body, as mentioned earlier, you can create any tissue in the human body. In the laboratory they can create a full human bone that can be inserted directly in the gap after the lengthening. It is costly but it can be done.
That's why non union can be fixed with today's new technology without issues. The thing is, not so many LL doctors are specialized in stem cells treatment or tissue re-creation from scratch. Few LL Surgeons around the world apply this treatment as part of the lengthening program. They can probably be counted on few fingers.
All these offer nothing if you have a more than 2-3 cm gap. If you continue at the distraction rate you are doing now you'll have a big gap at 5cm (not even more than that) that won't bridge, so in a few words, a malunion.
Malunions of that amount cant be treated with nothing else except from shortening the bone.
So for a last time, keep a serious eye on the calous. If it stays almost invisible stop lengthening.
Otherwise you are going to be in trouble, no matter what Nemer says.
Keep strong!
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All these offer nothing if you have a more than 2-3 cm gap. If you continue at the distraction rate you are doing now you'll have a big gap at 5cm (not even more than that) that won't bridge, so in a few words, a malunion.
Malunions of that amount cant be treated with nothing else except from shortening the bone.
So for a last time, keep a serious eye on the calous. If it stays almost invisible stop lengthening.
Otherwise you are going to be in trouble, no matter what Nemer says.
Keep strong!
Dear Body Builder
I guess you skipped few lines that would have clarified your concern.
Stem cells technology can offer you what you are talking about. In worst case scenario a full human bone from your own body cells can be created in the lab, among other body tissues. It is costly but doable.
Since this is probably a new technology that no one has ever addressed in this forum in depth, I guess we (whom are interested in going deep in this topic) educate our self a little bit and consult experts before giving qualified advises to other members on particularly that topic. That includes me by the way.
May God bless you with wisdom.
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Dear Body Builder
I guess you skipped few lines that would have clarified your concern.
Stem cells technology can offer you what you are talking about. In worst case scenario a full human bone from your own body cells can be created in the lab, among other body tissues. It is costly but doable.
Since this is probably a new technology that no one has ever addressed in this forum in depth, I guess we (whom are interested in going deep in this topic) educate our self a little bit and consult experts before giving qualified advises to other members on particularly that topic. That includes me by the way.
May God bless you with wisdom.
We have addressed this in the past. But I think you mentioned Jamal's approach being stem cell stimulation at the end of the treatment.
This is what it entails:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5492338/
Distraction osteogenesis (DO) mobilises bone regenerative potential and avoids the complications of other treatments such as bone graft. The major disadvantage of DO is the length of time required for bone consolidation. Mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) have been used to promote bone formation with some good results.
[...]
Conclusion
The majority of studies reported that the transplantation of MSCs enhanced bone consolidation or formation in DO.
Dr. Donghoon Lee also offers this approach. That is, stem-cell therapy.
This is a different beast from tissue engineering a human bone.
I do not believe it has ever been done to treat a human being with any kind of limb trauma.
This is the stage we're currently at:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lab-grown-bone-biomedical-engineering-osteoporosis-amputees
This technique will be tested on humans in 2020, when an NHS plastic surgeon will deliver a small bit of lab-grown bone into a patient's hand. Once this is in motion, Dalby says, the team will work towards growing the bone putty and adding the scaffolding within a week.
Based on what I know, only a similar, experimental medical procedure has been successfully done: it was by an Israeli biomedical startup earlier this year.
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Dear Body Builder
I guess you skipped few lines that would have clarified your concern.
Stem cells technology can offer you what you are talking about. In worst case scenario a full human bone from your own body cells can be created in the lab, among other body tissues. It is costly but doable.
Since this is probably a new technology that no one has ever addressed in this forum in depth, I guess we (whom are interested in going deep in this topic) educate our self a little bit and consult experts before giving qualified advises to other members on particularly that topic. That includes me by the way.
May God bless you with wisdom.
Nothing on the present times can fix a gap of 4-5+ cm.
They havent done it on UK which is a far superior country in terms of medical things, if you think that Nemer can do it so risk it.
I've done my duty to warn you, anything else is up to you.
Stay strong.
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We have addressed this in the past. But I think you mentioned Jamal's approach being stem cell stimulation at the end of the treatment.
This is what it entails:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5492338/
Dr. Donghoon Lee also offers this approach. That is, stem-cell therapy.
This is a different beast from tissue engineering a human bone.
I do not believe it has ever been done to treat a human being with any kind of limb trauma.
This is the stage we're currently at:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lab-grown-bone-biomedical-engineering-osteoporosis-amputees
Based on what I know, only a similar, experimental medical procedure has been successfully done: it was by an Israeli biomedical startup earlier this year.
Hi myloginacc
Interesting information. A scientific approach is always interesting.
Thanks for sharing.
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Nothing on the present times can fix a gap of 4-5+ cm.
They havent done it on UK which is a far superior country in terms of medical things, if you think that Nemer can do it so risk it.
I've done my duty to warn you, anything else is up to you.
Stay strong.
Hello Body Builder
IF there is a gap in the first place ;)
We are getting nowhere in the discussion and neither you or I are experts in the field.
Your "duty" is appreciated.
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Day 50 Update:
My physio therapist started using an electro muscle simulator during our massage sessions. I can't emphasize enough how refiling it is for the muscles.
I was told that it comes with different programs and can be used for massage and rehabilitation after the lengthening. I am thinking about buying one myself. But the device that the physio therapist is using seems very expensive.
I am trying to look in eBay and Amazon right now for something similar, but for a budget friendly price. There are many brands so it is hard to tell which are good and which are not.
If you are aware of an inexpensive but quality device, please message me.
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Day 52 Update:
I felt lately that my hips were getting tight when I wake up, so every time we did the clicking during morning time I had to take a break from time to time to relax my hips muscles.
Therefor I did something yesterday and today that I would recommend when you do the clicking. I filled the bath tube with very hot water and I was sitting there for about 10 minutes before I started clicking my legs.
All my muscles were totally relaxed by the hot water, so when I started the clicking it went very fast and totally smooth. I can highly recommend it.
Apart from that, I have been discussing the muscle simulator with my phsyio therapist, because I can really feel the difference in my hamstring muscles every time we use the device. It is very powerful.
My physio therapist will talk with the company where they get their equipment from. It seems that I can get the same device that we are using during our sessions to a discounted price. Looking forward to own my own muscle simulator :)
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That's a good idea to warm up your leg to make lengthening easier, makes sense to me; like warming up before exercise, it should make your muscles, tendons, and even bones more flexible.
Word of warning for patients with external fixators: be sure to warm up with the shower instead of submerging your leg in the bathtub, as that will increase the infection rate.
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That's a good idea to warm up your leg to make lengthening easier, makes sense to me; like warming up before exercise, it should make your muscles, tendons, and even bones more flexible.
Word of warning for patients with external fixators: be sure to warm up with the shower instead of submerging your leg in the bathtub, as that will increase the infection rate.
Hello my good friend
Long time. Exactly, the lengthening is a form of a physical activity that needs warm up. It just works fine.
Thanks for sharing about the external fixators for those whom might be using them.
Keep in touch Android.
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Day 59 Update: (Right leg: 6,13 cm & Left leg: 4,29 cm)
It has been a while since I wrote here. I am still clicking and keeping my self active during the day. I have passed the 5 cm on my right leg long time ago and my left leg is getting there soon.
Today I am standing at 6,13 cm on right leg and 4,29 cm on left leg.
When I started the lengthening I was going for 5 cm on my femur legs as my original goal. But in short time I realized that I have passed the 5 cm on my right leg without big efforts. Therefor I have now increased my expectations to at least 8 cm on my femur legs. That means that I need further 1,87 cm on my right leg and I'm done :)
Since I don't leave the apartment, I noticed something suddenly when I was standing in front of Dr. Jamal while he had his shoes on and I was standing with my bare feet. Dr. Jamal is about 176 cm. I realized that I was looking him almost in the same eyes height when I was talking to him. It came like a shock to me! But it was a nice feeling. It warmed my heart :)
Along side with this, I have been told to not sit still during the day. So I am trying to walk back and forth in the apartment, do light squats using the walker and use the stepping machine that I've got from my doctor.
When I first got the stepping machine, I could hardly rotate the stepping pad a full rotation. I have been working actively on it since then. So I pushed myself and started by doing 30 seconds 3 times per day.
Afterwards I started increasing the exercise to:
1 min twice a day
2 min 3 times a day
5 min 3 times a day
7 min 4 times a day
10 min 3 times a day
My legs are getting much stronger. This is an essential part of the rehabilitation even though I am still lengthening.
So next step: 10 min 4 times a day and hopefully soon I will be doing an hour per day in 10 or 15 min intervals. This is the ultimate goal.
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Hey rockey,
Quick question from one fellow lengthener to another.. what stepper are you using? any chance you could send me a link to something that looks similar?
Thank you!
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Hey rockey,
Quick question from one fellow lengthener to another.. what stepper are you using? any chance you could send me a link to something that looks similar?
Thank you!
Hello Miko
Sure. I am no expert in stepping machines. I just got this one from my doctor and it turned out to be very useful. I have posted a picture of it in an earlier post. Here is how it looks like:
https://imgur.com/a/92tTkiW (https://imgur.com/a/92tTkiW)
You can step on it while you are standing or sitting. I step while I am sitting.
By the way, I have put a bit of pressure on my self this morning. I did 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes this afternoon. You can rotate front wise to activate the front leg muscles (I did it for 10 min today) and then backwards to activate the hamstrings (I did another 10 min too).
Everytime I complete a set of 20 min, I feel my heart is pumping inside my legs. But when I lay down on bed for 30 min or so, my legs feel so relieved. The tense goes away. Nice feeling. I would recommend you such a machine during your rehabilitation.
I hope I have answered your question. Have a pleasant day and may God bless you.
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I just unfolded my pants from my traveling bag and took them on. The ones I had on when I came to the airport the first day. I noticed that my legs were sticking a bit further than normal below the edge of the pants. But I went to the big mirror in the apartment hall to view my self from top to toe.
When I looked at the mirror, my first impression was like: "What the...?"
I noticed how short the pants became. I looked like a funny cartoon figure from Disney with my old pants on :D
I can't believe what is happening to me. The whole thing feels so surrealistic :) I am starting to enjoy my new height even though I am not even done with the full lengthening :)
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Day 63 Update:
I was bragging to Dr. Jamal about my stepping machine progress. I reached 20 minutes 3 times a day in no time. So an hour every day.
He advised me to change my approach a little bit. Instead of putting many minutes in one shot with long breaks in-between, he would rather see me spreading the exercise in 2-5 minutes intervals from morning to evening. He told me to step on the machine for example every hour and give it 2-3 minutes. To keep my legs regularly active on the machine without long breaks. And from time to time give it 10 minutes or more. So I will follow this advice.
He examined my legs and advised me to not click the right leg for couple of days. I should still continue with left leg and give right leg a small break.
Right leg became a bit "heavy" and tense lately. My right knee is bending and the hamstrings muscles feel like a piece of stone. So I will give the right leg some peace for couple of days.
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so when is the next x-ray? and are you going to avoid posting it here?
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so when is the next x-ray? and are you going to avoid posting it here?
Hello tlannister
We did a CT scan on day 59. That's why I knew exactly my height in my earlier update. We are going for another CT scan on 2nd of July.
But I didn't post it on purpose because I don't want my head to be filled with negative energy from some of the non qualified comments from some of the members in here. This is the last thing I need while I am fighting this LL fight. I need to keep my spirit high.
Life tought me to filter away any negative energy while aiming for a goal.
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Are you American, Rocky?
Do Americans call plain X-rays "CT scans" or are all these CLL doctors doing regular CT scans in the process of CLL?
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Are you American, Rocky?
Do Americans call plain X-rays "CT scans" or are all these CLL doctors doing regular CT scans in the process of CLL?
Hey myloginacc
I am not American.
We have done X-Rays before but they were for rough evaluation. After crossing the 5 cm, we started with CT Scans because they are more precious. We do it based on my request and whenever the Doctor feels its time to get a feeling where we are standing. They show the gap distance from both sides of the broken bone and the length of the femur bone in total. The doctor can also rotate the bone in 3D on the screen. Its very impressive to look at.
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Important
Dear members
I would kindly and sincerely ask you to not be sarcastic about others nationalities (not even religion or gender) in my diary and stick to facts within the Limb Lengthening topic. If you have something that adds value to others or myself, be my guest. If you want to ask a question for the sake of knowledge and experience sharing, you are most welcome to do so. We are here to help each others and learn from each others journey, rather than humiliating each others directly or indirectly based on our nationality or similar, etc.
There was an childish and sarcastic comment about Americans the other day, which I have ignored on purpose to not sink to a low level in the discussion. It just showed the level of immaturity of some members in here. Frankly speaking my wife who is following this diary is American and she was offended and hurt by this comment. The comment didn't add any value neither for the writer, other members or myself.
So please going forward, show some respect for other nations and be a bit mature if you want to be part of my diary and journey. Any childish behavior that is not suitable for this respectful forum and does not add any value to anyone will simply be ignored and left unanswered.
I can't force you to choose your language. But remember that your communication skills and wordings represent nothing else than your self as an individual. So for your own sake, be respectful to others to be respectful to your own individual person and as a human being.
With that said, I wish you all a successful LL journey and for those who are not there yet, I hope you will get a successful path in the future.
All respect for everyone regardless of their nationality, religion or gender from my family and myself.
May God protect and bless you all.
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If she's offended maybe find her a safe space if you're a SJW worrior.
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If she's offended maybe find her a safe space if you're a SJW worrior.
Dear doomsday
You missed the main point
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Day 65 Update:
So... Now that we don't have more childish comments (yet) we can go back to the main daily updates and stick to the main topic ;)
I thought about sharing some few things I have experienced so far, and I guess LL veterans have been through it and know all about it.
From 0 to 5 cm: It was not that challenging. Yes, there were some tension/pain here and there. There were some ups and downs but you just think: "Was it really it?"
From 5 to 7 cm: To be honest it is a fight now. I am not sure if it has to do with my age. This is where I am standing now.
I can already tell that reaching 8 cm as the ultimate goal is not going to be a walk in the park. That's for sure. If it ever happens :D
Few things happened to my anatomy and musculature structure that I didn't see coming. Personally I am experiencing two major changes:
Bending knees: First of all, you will notice that your hamstrings become very tight and force you to bend your knees when you walk. Professional/Daily physio therapy and massage is a blessing and I strongly recommend it. It will not make your knees fall back to where they were before overnight, because you lengthen and increase the tension every day. It just relieves the muscles.
Sticking rear: Secondly, which I paid attention to by looking at the mirror lately, your rear starts to stick backwards. I was told that it is called "Duck ass". As I understood it has to do with your hips muscles in this case. Again, physio therapy and massage is a big relief but will not do miracles overnight.
My walking started to look like a robotic machine while using the walker. It doesn't look "linear" anymore. I started using the stepping machine rapidity for 2 or maximum 3 minutes at a time during the day. It keeps me always on the "run". If I sit and watch a movie and work on the computer by accident for 2 hours or more without breaks, my knees become tense.
I experience also the tension in my knees every time I wake up in the morning. It takes me 1 to 2 minutes to relief the tension before getting out of bed.
So far I eat healthy but my sleeping rhythm is not stable anymore. I sleep 1-2 hours at a time, multiple times during a full day. So all in all, my body gets the needed sleep but not in one shot. Its not because of pain, but due the tension in my hamstrings. They keep me occupied. By the way, I didn't experience all that while I was below 5 cm on my femur.
That was my personal experience so far. I hope it will enlighten some members in here.
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Hello tlannister
We did a CT scan on day 59. That's why I knew exactly my height in my earlier update. We are going for another CT scan on 2nd of July.
But I didn't post it on purpose because I don't want my head to be filled with negative energy from some of the non qualified comments from some of the members in here. This is the last thing I need while I am fighting this LL fight. I need to keep my spirit high.
Life tought me to filter away any negative energy while aiming for a goal.
thats fine, but can you describe in words if there is any callous formation when you take x-rays?
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thats fine, but can you describe in words if there is any callous formation when you take x-rays?
Hello tlannister
Sure my pleasure. When we did X-Rays it was not clear enough. The CT Scans were way more clear. The formation of callous were moderate. I wouldn't say very rich formation, just fair enough. Maybe because of my age. My doctor is keeping a close eye on this.
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Important
Dear members
I would kindly and sincerely ask you to not be sarcastic about others nationalities (not even religion or gender) in my diary and stick to facts within the Limb Lengthening topic. If you have something that adds value to others or myself, be my guest. If you want to ask a question for the sake of knowledge and experience sharing, you are most welcome to do so. We are here to help each others and learn from each others journey, rather than humiliating each others directly or indirectly based on our nationality or similar, etc.
There was an childish and sarcastic comment about Americans the other day, which I have ignored on purpose to not sink to a low level in the discussion. It just showed the level of immaturity of some members in here. Frankly speaking my wife who is following this diary is American and she was offended and hurt by this comment. The comment didn't add any value neither for the writer, other members or myself.
So please going forward, show some respect for other nations and be a bit mature if you want to be part of my diary and journey. Any childish behavior that is not suitable for this respectful forum and does not add any value to anyone will simply be ignored and left unanswered.
I can't force you to choose your language. But remember that your communication skills and wordings represent nothing else than your self as an individual. So for your own sake, be respectful to others to be respectful to your own individual person and as a human being.
With that said, I wish you all a successful LL journey and for those who are not there yet, I hope you will get a successful path in the future.
All respect for everyone regardless of their nationality, religion or gender from my family and myself.
May God protect and bless you all.
Are you referring to my post?
I'm not American, and this is an English language website. I don't know how things go over in the US. Maybe they use - colloquially - the technically wrong terms for certain things. My question was entirely due to medical reasons.
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Are you referring to my post?
I'm not American, and this is an English language website. I don't know how things go over in the US. Maybe they use - colloquially - the technically wrong terms for certain things. My question was entirely due to medical reasons.
No worries myloginacc
I'm very polite in nature and show others respect, so I expect the same from others. If you have noticed, even when I get "stupid" comments sometimes for example about myself and my wife lately I don't sink low to the same level. I just think: "What an immature Kid" and move on.
I'm here to write about my diary so my family can follow my progress and enlighten other people who are considering same procedure. I get daily private messages from youngsters whom have questions. I have also spoken with several of them directly and they tell me that I'm giving them hope. I always encourage those who contact me. If a dad in my age can fight this fight, so can they.
As an X-boxer I'm physically tough and used to tolerate pain, but this journey has not been easy lately. Especially after crossing the 5 cm. Every day is a fight. Maybe daddy is getting old :)
I'm really not here to discuss my nationality, religion or other personal issues. So I need peace in my head to fight the last few cm and not get into personal conflicts. I don't have capacity for it and I'm too old for that :)
So peace and love from here. May God protect you son :)
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Day 66 Update:
We did the daily clicking today. We looked at the registered amount of clicks we have done so far and the doctor examined my legs. He thinks that I am either very close or have already passed 7 cm with few mm on right leg. But the scanning on the 2nd of July will give us a precious measurement.
I told Dr. Jamal that I don't feel that I have the same strength as earlier when I use the walker. To be honest I have been using the stepping machine actively but I was neglecting my walking a bit lately. We did a small test, where he gave me crutches and asked me to walk few steps. He was standing just beside me to support me, just in case. When I took the first step I felt that I lost my balance so he stepped in and supported me.
His advice was to walk more often in the apartment using the walker for now. We need to transform slowly to crutches, but it will not happen overnight.
He told me that it is a very critical moment right now. He doesn't want me to sit in a wheelchair when I finish the lengthening once I take my flight home. He wants me to get back home on crutches. We are probably close to or above 7 cm on right leg so it is very important to program the balance in my brain to adapt to this new height alongside with my leg muscles maintenance.
So we agreed about the following. I will put my mobile on a 1 hour alarm. I will walk just 3 times in my bedroom back and forth every 1 hour as long I am awake during the day. He told me to not overdue it and not exhaust my body. If I feel tired, I should listen to my body and relax. We will try this for some time and he will keep monitoring the progress. He will inform me later on about next step.
I just walked 3 times at 10 pm and I just repeated it at 11 pm. I guess I will do one more round before I go to sleep at 12 am.
To be honest, just those few rounds in the bedroom made me feel much better when I took a break afterwards.
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Hey Rocky, been following and have a few questions for you.
So you mentioned that even as a guy with a good pain threshold, things are getting tough lately.
Would you attribute the tough lengthening more to the fact that it's painful? Or is it more mental and due to the lack of mobility that you're experiencing a tough time?
Also how is lengthening the last amounts different for you from your first amounts as far as difficulty, tightness and pain?
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Hey Rocky, been following and have a few questions for you.
So you mentioned that even as a guy with a good pain threshold, things are getting tough lately.
Would you attribute the tough lengthening more to the fact that it's painful? Or is it more mental and due to the lack of mobility that you're experiencing a tough time?
Also how is lengthening the last amounts different for you from your first amounts as far as difficulty, tightness and pain?
Hello Jonhson1111
Very good question. I guess it is a combination of multiple factors that can be linked together.
Since I started using the stepping machine more often, I neglected the daily walking a little bit. I guess I got too excited about breaking my time records and challenging my self on the machine. Which means my knees rotations were enhanced while enforcing full body weight loading decreased. That has weaken my legs to carry my body weight, while I was still clicking myself taller. Dr. Jamal was concerned about it today and asked me to pay attention to full body weight bearing from now on. He told me all this stepping machine bike excitement is fine and important, but I should keep the weight bearing duty on the top of my daily agenda, to avoid using a wheel chair one day. He kept saying: "Keep your self in a vertical position as much as possible and as long you are awake".
Pain comes with the fact that I sometimes forget to move from bed and lay down watching a movie or so for hours. The leg muscles will in this case try to relax back to their "actual" size and will pull on the muscle scenes and knees in return, which will eventually cause pain in your knees. This happens also when you wake up everyday from a few hours night sleep. To avoid that, one has to be constantly active as long one is awake. No need for heavy exercises in this case. Just move around in the room every here and then. This will tell your brain and muscles: "We need to adapt to the new height". The brain plays an important role here, because the balance comes from the back side of the brain. For every new mm you add, the brain has to be programmed to balance your body muscles to the new incremental height.
Then you have tightness from the hamstrings and hips. The hamstrings are trying to adapt to the new length too while you are pushing them to be taller every day. So they will keep pulling your standing position in a way that you are forced to bend your knees. The same applies to the hips muscles which will force you to stand in a "Duck Ass" bending position. Hips muscles are weaker than leg muscles so they will be the slowest muscles to adapt during your rehabilitation. It is not painful but I would rather describe it as annoying. Those anatomy changes will keep you occupied, especially at night/bed time. The tightness will sometimes make you feel an irritation and wake up in the middle of the night (like my case now). To avoid it, take a walk in the room on your flat feet (not toes) and try to keep your back straight. This will keep your hamstrings and hip muscles leaner. NOT lean enough but leaner than the starting position :)
All those changes never happened to me in my case when the lengthening was below 5 cm. The first 5 cm were seriously like having a vacation. It went fast and without major efforts. As mentioned earlier, I have been an x boxer earlier in my life. So I am used to pain and being knocked down on the floor during a fight while bleeding all over my face and still keep getting up to continue the fight. I have been into fights before with broken bones or twisted wrist but never told it to the judges to not be disqualified and lose a match. Anyway. So the first 5 cm "painless" experience might be different on another person. I guess it is individual. It is just my personal experience so far.
On the contrary, every mm above the 5 cm is a fight now. I guess that I have passed the 7 cm on my right leg. We will know for sure once we scan the legs next week.
Dr. Jamal joked today and said: "If you need to be taller than 7 cm, you need to roll your arms and fight. There is no other way around it. Once you pass the 7, you need to declare war" :D
I hope I have answered your questions. Otherwise please feel free to ask again.
Have a pleasant evening and may God bless you.
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Day 67 Update:
I had a nice experience today.
One of Dr. Jamal's x patients came from UK to Ukraine to visit Kiev this week. This fellow has lengthen his femur legs 11 cm back in 2006. It was at the time when Dr. Dragan and Dr. Jamal were working together (before Dr. Dragan passed away).
I was very curious to meet that guy. So I asked Dr. Jamal if he could invite him to my apartment. To cut it short, both of them came to visit me just before.
I was told that his starting height was around my height. Maybe 1 cm taller if I remember correct. The guy was standing way taller than Dr. Jamal. He was around 182 cm.
We had a very nice chat about his journey and his recovery process. It was really interesting to listen to.
To be honest, and I also said it directly to him, his height was very impressive. But on the other hand I could tell that his femur was very long in proportion comparing to his tibia when he was sitting on the chair.
If I didn't know that he did LL surgery, I would have probably not noticed it. He told me the same thing. That people that don't know about his surgery have never questioned his proportions.
Regardless of that. 11 freaken cm!!! A real life example of a young man who is standing a head taller in front of my eyes. Not that I would go to 11 cm, but it gave me so much motivation.
I was telling this young man that I am considering femur this year and tibia next year. He actually advised me to not pass 7-8 cm on femur and throw additional 5 cm on tibia if I was looking for nice proportions. It would look better in his opinion. 12-13 cm in total wouldn't be bad at all. I guess he has a point.
We exchanged numbers and emails. He is going to join us on our CT Scan day on the 2nd of July.
Seriously, that was a nice experience :)
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Day 68 Update:
I have given my right leg 5 days break, because it was very tense lately. The thing is, when the muscles are tight, clicking becomes difficult. When the muscles are relaxed, clicking is way easier.
I was walking on the walker this morning and I felt my right leg was relaxed and muscles were lean. So I gave it a try and started clicking it. It went very very smooth. So 1 mm is secured on right leg today.
On the other hand, I was putting a lot of load on left leg in the last 5 days, so I feel that left leg needs 1 or 2 days vacation to relax a bit 8)
I am trying to listen to my body and pay attention to my legs condition all the time. I do not want to overload my legs with lots of clicks when they in reality are asking for rest instead.
Tip: Hamstrings "Passive" stretching
One of the worst muscles in leg lengthening is the hamstrings muscles. As I explained in earlier updates that the hamstrings will push your knees to bend when you pass the 5 cm or more. So physio therapy is a good remedy. But you need to stretch the hamstrings all the time.
Cold stretching is not a good idea. So you have to warm up the muscle by using the stepping machine, bike or just walk a decent distance in advance.
Instead of applying active stretching (by forcing your self to stretch that nasty muscle), just warm up your muscles as described earlier, then lay down in your bed on your stomach. You will notice that your lower legs will be pointing upwards in the air and your toes are not touching the bed surface ;D Just put some music on and relax. Let gravity do the work for you 8)
You will notice that the muscle will start to stretch and your toes will get closer to the bed surface.
From time to time get up on your knees (in a doggy position :D) to let the blood flow in your toes and repeat this passive stretching for few minutes again.
It does miracles :)
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Day 72 Update: (Right Leg: 7,55 cm & Left Leg: 5,05 cm)
I feel really well today. My right leg is almost done. My left leg is a bit behind. But on the other hand, there is about a month between the 2 operations. So it is not that bad actually.
As of today the measurements are as follow:
Right Leg: 7,55 cm
Left Leg: 5,05 cm
If considering right leg alone, my height is 178,05 cm which is more than what I was expecting when I started the lengthening process.
I have taken a final decision to stop at 8,5 cm on both legs. I would like to reach a height of 179 cm and then stop.
So 0,95 cm is left on the right leg and we will call it a day. I am not worried about my right leg anymore. It is almost a done deal. I need to focus on my left leg going forward.
I have now 2 options:
1) Click my right leg in a very slow rate and wait till my left leg reaches the same height
2) Click my right leg to 8,5 cm and ask Dr. Jamal to stop the clicker totally
My left leg feels a bit tight so I am giving it a rest. No clicking before it "wakes up" and tells me that it is ready to move forward. Relaxed muscles give a smooth clicking. On the other hand, when the muscles are tight clicking becomes painful. So I will be patient and let nature give me a green light when the left leg is ready.
I will just take it easy and not put pressure on myself :)
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1 mm is secured on the right leg now. So it is standing at 7,65 cm.
0,85 cm is left to reach 8,5 cm ;D
The countdown started for the right leg 8)
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Awesome progress, Rocky! Expecting 5 cm and going for 8.5 cm is a huge bonus. Almost there!
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Hi Rocky,
You didn't email me pal, I wrote to you.. But nevermind, I found the forum after a quick search. Nice of you to write you had a pleasant evening on mine and Dr J's visit. Hope you're eating well, exercising and keeping your spirits up. You'll get to your goal, worry not. The bend in the legs will go. I made a short post of my own, but still 'awaiting approval' by moderator, 4 days and counting! Who is the moderator here? Is it possible to contact them?
I may pay you a visit again this week. I'll let you know in advance. I think Dr J passed you my number, right?
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1 mm is secured on the right leg now. So it is standing at 7,65 cm.
0,85 cm is left to reach 8,5 cm ;D
The countdown started for the right leg 8)
I think you are risking too much without any reason.
7.5 cm are very very good and now you have a great height. Exceeding that and doing 8.5 cm increases a lot the risks of knee arthritis due to the big ration difference between femur and tibia (what happened with Tall that forced to lengthen tibias too to avoid premature arthritis due to too much lengthening of femurs) and of course even bigger biomechanics deficit.
You started for 5cm (which was very safe) and you exceed 7cm (which is about the safe limit), I can't see why you want to risk for no real benefit. You are lucky to have done it until now without problems, it would have been very sensible to stop now your longer leg and lengthen just your other leg to have the same length.
Personally, when I'll do my second LL the upper limit for my femurs would be 7cm. But the choice is yours.
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I'd say 7 cm is safer too.
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Hello Body Builder and notatroll
You know what guys. I thought alot about your feedback. I have already passed the 7 cm. I'm very close to 8 cm on my right leg.
You know what? I will stop clicking my right leg and focus on my left leg instead, to get it closer to my right leg. Till that time I'd have made my mind about the final goal.
Thanks for "opening my eyes".
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Awesome progress, Rocky! Expecting 5 cm and going for 8.5 cm is a huge bonus. Almost there!
Thanks dear. I was really happy to see your diary the other day. You took finally the step to lengthen your legs.
I wish you truly all the best. You deserve it. May God bless you.
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Hello Body Builder and notatroll
You know what guys. I thought alot about your feedback. I have already passed the 7 cm. I'm very close to 8 cm on my right leg.
You know what? I will stop clicking my right leg and focus on my left leg instead, to get it closer to my right leg. Till that time I'd have made my mind about the final goal.
Thanks for "opening my eyes".
Good decision
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Good decision
Thanks dear notatroll
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Quick Question: (Muscle Tendon)
Dear experts
I have a quick question. I hope someone has the answer.
Since I passed 5 cm on left leg recently the muscles became tight. So I decided to give the left leg a rest. I can tell this morning that the muscle itself is relaxed. But the muscle's tendon that hold the muscle from each end seem to be tense. When I move my leg, the tendon snap suddenly.
Is it best to keep resting the leg? or would a light exercise loosen the muscle tendon a little bit?
I'd really like to know the answer. So please write in here or send me a private message.
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Quick Question: (Muscle Tendon)
Dear experts
I have a quick question. I hope someone has the answer.
Since I passed 5 cm on left leg recently the muscles became tight. So I decided to give the left leg a rest. I can tell this morning that the muscle itself is relaxed. But the muscle's tendon that hold the muscle from each end seem to be tense. When I move my leg, the tendon snap suddenly.
Is it best to keep resting the leg? or would a light exercise loosen the muscle tendon a little bit?
I'd really like to know the answer. So please write in here or send me a private message.
Take a rest for some days from lengthening (I dont think you risk premature consolidation as your bone brisge is not strong) and stretch as much as you can.
If you have so much tension right now, reaching 2.5cm won't be easy so you must stretch a lot and lengthen slowly.
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Take a rest for some days from lengthening (I dont think you risk premature consolidation as your bone brisge is not strong) and stretch as much as you can.
If you have so much tension right now, reaching 2.5cm won't be easy so you must stretch a lot and lengthen slowly.
Thanks Body Builder
I will give it more rest then.
I am not in hurry so I don't mind going slowly with left leg.
Let me try with the stretching and see how it will respond.
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I just spoke with my physio therapist since he knows my leg's condition very well.
He told me that I don't walk enough on my legs. He said that I need to have a meeting with my brain and left leg. Then demand my brain to order my left leg to perform what it was born for :D
I have to walk through my pain. By time it will release.
He said: "Walk, Walk and Walk" :)
I just put the mobile timer on and walked for 10 minutes in the apartment. I will repeat that every hour till I go to sleep.
And I will continue the stretching as advised by Body Builder.
Lets see how my left leg will respond to that.
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Day 76 Update:
My left leg's tendons have been very tight lately. So I gave my legs a break from clicking. In the meanwhile, I have been walking 10 minutes every hour during the day to achieve between 60 to 120 minutes in total. I've spent less time on the stepping machine (2 x 10 min maximum). In short, I have been very active lately.
In no time, my legs feel way stronger and the tendon tension is somehow healing a bit.
I have also been training to stand up from my bed without using the walker. It takes around 10 seconds to be on a standing position, but I can do it now. Vice versa, I am also able to sit down without the walker's support. I can't do both movements when I just wake up in the morning. I can do it during the day, once I have activated the leg muscles for some time. I do both movements very slowly, so there is still space for improvement. It will eventually become better by daily and continuous exercises.
I am back on my clicking routine. Only on my left leg.
I want to even the length of both legs. So this is my main goal right now.
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Day 83 Update:
I am not clicking my right leg anymore and focusing my left leg. I want them to get equally in length.
The left leg is getting weaker due to the clicks and therefor muscles and tendon tension. On the other hand the right leg is getting stronger and is acting as the leading leg, whenever I do full weight bearing. The leg muscles on the right leg feel way softer than ever. The right leg is on vacation right now :)
Since I haven't touched the right leg for long period now, I have a sense how it would feel right after I stop the lengthening. The clicker which is located in the hip area is annoying. So I can imagine how pleasant it would feel to remove it at the end of the journey.
Clicking left leg is time consuming right now. The leg gets tense just after few clicks. To relief that, I am stepping on the stepping machine for 2 minutes every 2-3 clicks. Every time I do that, I feel that I get a boost of energy to proceed. I relax typically for 2-3 minutes before proceeding the clicking.
What really keeps me motivated is the fact that I'm shortening the difference between both legs every day. So far I haven't skipped the clicking since I started focusing on my left leg. But at some time I might give the left leg a rest.
I will listen carefully to my body and not put my left leg under load of pressure.
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Quick tip: (Less time on the stepping machine)
I used to walk 10 minutes every hour, but I am not able to do it anymore since my left leg is getting weaker. So I am walking less than before. To not stopping my self from being active, I am using the stepping machine very frequently.
But... in shorter periods of time. I do it on purpose.
If you are using the stepping machine/bike. Don't overdo it like I did in the beginning.
I reduced my stepping machine activities to maximum 2-3 minutes every hour. Not more than that.
In my case it keeps my knees soft and the blood circulating in my legs every hour.
So far this is working fine with me. I find it very effective.
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Day 100 Update: (Right Leg: 7.65 cm & Left Leg: 7.27 cm)
It has been a while since I have updated my journey. I have been waiting to round the 100 days and have a look where I am standing.
I have been busy clicking my left leg to even it with my right leg. It looks like that I am getting very close to a state where both legs have the same length.
The results are as follow:
Right Leg: 7.65
Left Leg: 7.27
We are talking about 0.38 cm in difference. In other words peanuts.
My right leg has been on vacation since it hasn't been exposed to any clicking for several weeks, while left leg has been put under intensive attention to pass 7 cm.
It looks like that I need to give the left leg a small break now, before I start clicking it again. The tendons around my left knee seem to be under pressure and the knee itself is bending significantly if I compare it to just few weeks back.
On the other hand the right knee is releasing and stretching a bit. You can easily tell the difference between my two legs when I lay down on my bed.
So far so good.
I need to find a new Netflix TV show and focus on completing the final stages of my journey :) I am getting there soon :)
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Hi Rocky. Good to hear you're getting there. In fact, you're there already! You're aiming for 8cm? Don't worry about any bends, you muscles just need a little time to adjust. Keep stretching and eating well. How're you feeling mentally, having endured this journey?
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Hello taller_in_Kiev
Everything is fine. My focus is to even my legs and reach 8 cm as a minimum. Every millimeter is a challenge now. So lets see.
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If your goal was 9 or 10, you'd reach 8 without noticing )) Funny how the mind works.
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If your goal was 9 or 10, you'd reach 8 without noticing )) Funny how the mind works.
Hello again
My goal was 5 cm to begin with :D
Anything above 5 cm is just an extra bonus in my book :)
Have a nice evening. May God bless you.
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How are you man is it worth it?
How are the scars?
Walking unaided yet?
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Rocky, since you're now at the end of lengthening. Do you think its appropriate to post x-ray?
I am really interested in seeing the callus development. I think this sort of information is highly necessary to educate the public (on this forum)
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How are you man is it worth it?
How are the scars?
Walking unaided yet?
Hello Troma
I am doing fine thanks.
If it is worth it. I guess it is individual from person to person. In my case I was looking for increasing my height, so I feel it was worth it.
Regarding the scars. There are diffidently scars. Once I remove the nail totally in 1 or 2 years, I will be getting cosmetic stitches. I might supplement it with laser treatment to make the scars fade out. But its too early to tell.
And lastly regarding the walking. I am still using a walker. Once we stop the lengthening I have to switch to crutches.
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Rocky, since you're now at the end of lengthening. Do you think its appropriate to post x-ray?
I am really interested in seeing the callus development. I think this sort of information is highly necessary to educate the public (on this forum)
Hello tlannister
I am still not done with the lengthening. I am very focused on completing the last millimeters I have left and getting a successful operation to remove the clicker devices from each leg. The clickers are very annoying on the hip area. But I guess I can consider this period as my last phase of the journey.
It could be. I will consider it. Honestly, my thoughts are somewhere else right now. I just want to finish and travel home to my family. I might not get back to this forum once I am done. We will see :)
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Hello tlannister
I am still not done with the lengthening. I am very focused on completing the last millimeters I have left and getting a successful operation to remove the clicker devices from each leg. The clickers are very annoying on the hip area. But I guess I can consider this period as my last phase of the journey.
It could be. I will consider it. Honestly, my thoughts are somewhere else right now. I just want to finish and travel home to my family. I might not get back to this forum once I am done. We will see :)
Hi Rocky.
Congratulations on your new height.
Initially you only wanted to lengthen your femur around 5cm?, What made you change your mind and go beyond this length?
Do you know what length your femur was pre-surgery and your tibia/femur ratio?
You mentioned at the commencement of your journal that during the start of the surgery you received an injection in your back(spine?). Did you notice any lingering effects from this injection, like backache or headache after surgery? Some people say they experience these. Can you opt of this injection or is it a must for surgery?
I assume the removal of the clicker pins is a minor surgical procedure?
Hope you don't feel I am asking too many questions. I am just seriously considering leg lengthening in the near future and I am still in the research phase wanting to learn as much as possible about the procedure, patient experiences etc and which LL doctor to choose before I undertake this serious endeavour. At this stage and based on your overall possitive experience so far, I am drawn to Dr. Jamal as a possible choice to get LL done with in the future.
Thanks in advance
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Hi Rocky.
Congratulations on your new height.
Initially you only wanted to lengthen your femur around 5cm?, What made you change your mind and go beyond this length?
Do you know what length your femur was pre-surgery and your tibia/femur ratio?
You mentioned at the commencement of your journal that during the start of the surgery you received an injection in your back(spine?). Did you notice any lingering effects from this injection, like backache or headache after surgery? Some people say they experience these. Can you opt of this injection or is it a must for surgery?
I assume the removal of the clicker pins is a minor surgical procedure?
Hope you don't feel I am asking too many questions. I am just seriously considering leg lengthening in the near future and I am still in the research phase wanting to learn as much as possible about the procedure, patient experiences etc and which LL doctor to choose before I undertake this serious endeavour. At this stage and based on your overall possitive experience so far, I am drawn to Dr. Jamal as a possible choice to get LL done with in the future.
Thanks in advance
Hello Valiant
Thank you very much.
No worries. You can ask as many questions you want. Let me try to answer them one bye one.
I was aiming for 5 cm in the beginning, but I was there in no time and it felt like a walk in the park. I have therefor decided to add few cm on top of that.
I guess I have posted my per-surgery CT scan earlier. My femurs were around 45 cm.
For the back injection, I had a minor headache for few days. You need to sleep on your back without a pillow during that period and it will fade away. When I did the right leg operation, I asked them to give me the injection in my arm and I slept totally during the operation.
And for the final question. The final operation is a minor one. Removing the clicker might take 10-15 minutes for both legs. This is what I am looking for soon :)
Right now my full focus is about gaining the last millimeters and get this final operation done :)
May God bless you.
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Sounds like you're doing great, Rocky! You're almost there.
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Sounds like you're doing great, Rocky! You're almost there.
Hello Android
Thank you very much. I'm almost there. It just needs some patient.
I can see that you are progressing too. Good luck my friend :)
God bless you.
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how r u now
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if I dont see any x-rays, im gonna assume this another one of Jamal speciality: bone non-union.
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How is it going man ?
Really considering DR. Jamal.
how is your callous ?
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How is it going man ?
Really considering DR. Jamal.
how is your callous ?
there were 3 diaries on old forum. Non-unions, leg discrepency, fake diaries. Think twice if this is the risk you wanna take. If yes go for it. You body, your choice
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if I dont see any x-rays, im gonna assume this another one of Jamal speciality: bone non-union.
No, no tlannister, you're mistaken! Dr Jamal's speciality is full solid union, here you can have a look at mine to lay your fears to rest)
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=9000.62
Don't be hounding Rocky for xrays so soon, he's on the road to recovery now, but I have no doubt he'll be just fine.
Anyway we're still waiting for you in Kiev ;)
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what happened to rocky? i see people were warning him of signs of non-union
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Daddy please update us
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any update ?
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Dr. Abu Nemer - was one of the 8 suicide bombers in Sri Lanka. All patients are asked to contact local surgeons for continued treatment.
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Dr. Abu Nemer - was one of the 8 suicide bombers in Sri Lanka. All patients are asked to contact local surgeons for continued treatment.
WHAT THE fk?
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Holy crap this forums full of 12 year olds.
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racist joke :-[
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How much height do you increase because of the different lengh increase
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Update for the last 3 years:
I ended with the following:
- I have been using wheelchair for 3 years now
- It turned out that my legs were not even in length
- Non-union. The rods couldn't take my weight and broke
- 12 failed devices replacement surgeries (and still uneven legs lengths). Combination of devices and surgery mistakes.
- Bones infection and risk for legs amputation if I waited a bit longer
I had to be treated at another place and did the following:
- 2 surgeries to replace the limb lengthening rods with normal rods & twist and stabilize the legs
- Adjust the lengthening so both legs are even now
- Bones infection treatment took 3 weeks. It was a nightmare
- Non-union is still there. I still need to find a solution to treat the non-union
- I am doing physio to rehabilitate my legs, but the path seems far away
- Right now I am still using a wheelchair
My advice:
- Stick to a reputative doctor like Paley or someone is his caliber otherwise...
STAY AWAY
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Update for the last 3 years:
I ended with the following:
- I have been using wheelchair for 3 years now
- It turned out that my legs were not even in length
- Non-union. The rods couldn't take my weight and broke
- 12 failed devices replacement surgeries (and still uneven legs lengths). Combination of devices and surgery mistakes.
- Bones infection and risk for legs amputation if I waited a bit longer
I had to be treated at another place and did the following:
- 2 surgeries to replace the limb lengthening rods with normal rods & twist and stabilize the legs
- Adjust the lengthening so both legs are even now
- Bones infection treatment took 3 weeks. It was a nightmare
- Non-union is still there. I still need to find a solution to treat the non-union
- I am doing physio to rehabilitate my legs, but the path seems far away
- Right now I am still using a wheelchair
My advice:
- Stick to a reputative doctor like Paley or someone is his caliber otherwise...
STAY AWAY
really sad to know this man. i remember following your diary back then.
just curious, i thought the nail could reverse lengthen(retract too). Why could this not solve the non union?
take care man, i hope you are being treated well now.
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Wow Rocky thanks for updating us. So sorry you went through all that. Thanks for updating us despite 3 year suffering
Hope you finally recover this year.
Cheers
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I was naïve and believed in this nail system.
My best advice... Stick to standard nails in the market, such as PRECICE, Stryde, FitBone, etc.
And most importantly, stick to an experienced doctor with a known track record, solid history and good reputation... Otherwise and I repeat it again
STAY AWAY
You will not realize what blessing those 2 legs are until you end in a wheelchair...
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I was naïve and believed in this nail system.
My best advice... Stick to standard nails in the market, such as PRECICE, Stryde, FitBone, etc.
And most importantly, stick to an experienced doctor with a known track record, solid history and good reputation... Otherwise and I repeat it again
STAY AWAY
You will not realize what blessing those 2 legs are until you end in a wheelchair...
Sorry to hear about your recovery mate.
What do you think were the main issues with the particular nails you had? It seemed you were doing well until the end of distraction and then things went downhill.
Hopefully you are able to fully recover now that you are away from that place.
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Thank you dear Serilium.
I appreciate you wishes.
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I figured the bliskunov nails had a pretty good weight tolerance and that weight-bearing while lengthening was supposed to be one of its advertised features. It seems to be that for whatever reason, bone growth has been an issue with patients of Dr Jamal. Would you say your experience is more due to the doctor or due to the nail, in your opinion?
I hope you're on your way to recovery soon.
Update for the last 3 years:
I ended with the following:
- I have been using wheelchair for 3 years now
- It turned out that my legs were not even in length
- Non-union. The rods couldn't take my weight and broke
- 12 failed devices replacement surgeries (and still uneven legs lengths). Combination of devices and surgery mistakes.
- Bones infection and risk for legs amputation if I waited a bit longer
I had to be treated at another place and did the following:
- 2 surgeries to replace the limb lengthening rods with normal rods & twist and stabilize the legs
- Adjust the lengthening so both legs are even now
- Bones infection treatment took 3 weeks. It was a nightmare
- Non-union is still there. I still need to find a solution to treat the non-union
- I am doing physio to rehabilitate my legs, but the path seems far away
- Right now I am still using a wheelchair
My advice:
- Stick to a reputative doctor like Paley or someone is his caliber otherwise...
STAY AWAY
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I am also very interested in knowing what exactly went wrong. When I was considering femurs he was one of the doctors I might've gone to.
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Dears,
I will try to answer your questions the best I can.
He manufactures his nails at a car spare parts factory and he pays the engineer there pennies to do so. Very poor materials quality. He has also been manufacturing his devices at cheap factories in Bangladesh and Pakistan but he stopped doing so, because the devices kept failing. I discovered that very late.
He never uses a monitor during the surgery, so he has in several occasions drilled screws in the wrong places. We have discovered a single time, where he drilled the lower screw few mm below the nail. So basically the nail was loose at one end. We discovered that during the X-Ray couple of weeks after the surgery. He didn't want to admit it to begin with and talked around the topic. We had to do another surgery to put the screw in its place, so it could hold the loose end of the nail.
He was panicking because he kept repeating the surgeries and replacing the nails multiple times. We ended up with more mistakes. He ended up losing focus and doing more mistakes. At one point he had tighten one of the screws too much. He told me that if the bones consolidate, he will have hard time removing it. So we had to do another surgery, so he could loosen the screw... I can keep going on...
Be also aware, that he utilizes his 2 students daughters to operate during the surgeries. One of his daughters is underaged. I discovered this accidentally by one of the nurses too.
He uses Lidocaine (local anesthesia) during his surgeries, because doctors get it either for free or for a small fee when they rent the surgery rooms in Ukraine.
When you sleep during the surgery, you will experience that you will wake up multiple times. If they are slow to give you the injection, you will start screaming of pain. I have confronted him with that but I was unsure if I was dreaming or if it was real. He kept saying that it was illusions, until one of the nurses told me the truth.
To make matters even worse. It turned out that he has no clinic and he is not a certified doctor in Ukraine. He bought his diploma in 2011.
If you ever get the chance to visit Ukraine, try to chase his 'clinic' address. It doesn't exist. There is no clinic!
Medical centre BONAMED
Chervonozorianyi prospect, 17, Kiev, Ukraine
http://www.correction.kiev.ua/index.htm (http://www.correction.kiev.ua/index.htm)
He has hired some Russian dude to answer any email request going to the official email: onex@ukrpack.net
Because he simply can't read or write properly in English, Russian and doesn't know Ukrainian at all. He can't even write any medical report by himself. I wonder how he graduated from University.
If you can speak Russian or Ukrainian, try to have a normal and simple conversation with him over the phone and you will discover wonders by yourself.
Check his University Diploma and judge for yourself (It says Doctor of Philosophy)…
http://www.correction.kiev.ua/bonamed/phd-cert.jpg (http://www.correction.kiev.ua/bonamed/phd-cert.jpg)
I promised my wife to move on and not talk about this topic, but I couldn't help myself when I logged in and I saw your questions...
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I can't believe he is allowed to do surgeries and hope you recover soon
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I learned that he crippled several patients. He went through multiple interrogations with the police and the Ministry of Health has been alarmed. He is facing a serious court case this year.
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My next step is to even my legs as they don't have the same lengths anymore. Then I need to figure out, how to get rid of the wheelchair.
Thank you all for the nice wishes.
I really appreciate your support.
God bless you and take care of yourselves.
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Wow, best of luck with your recovery Rocky. It's sad to hear about a doctor (if you can even call him that) who is doing such terrible things to people to make a bit of money. I hope the authorities are able to stop him and he gets some kind of punishment for his actions.
To anyone else trying to save money on CLL surgery, please be careful! This forum has proven again and again that there are definitely bad actors out there.
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This is a story for a horror movie. I am so sorry for you and wish you recover well.
I have a question, since you appeared happy, excited and satisfied during the process, when was the time where serious problems occured (after distraction phase)?
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Dear RealLostSoul,
Thank you. I will try to answer your query the best I can.
The issues started to appear when the device broke inside my femur, after getting back home. The pain was unbearable. Thus, a replacement of the nail was a must. Then we discovered that my left and right legs were not even equal in lengths (And they still aren't until this day). Even the longer leg was not the expected length that we agreed about back then.
Later on, we discovered that the screws were not mounted correctly... The nightmare journey started from there. The more surgeries we did, the more mistakes we experienced. Not to mentioned the cheap materials that were being used and lack of hygiene.
I am under financial pressure right now and can't afford expensive surgeries anymore, but I have to find a way to even my legs in the future. Then I need to fill the non-union somehow. My ultimate goal is to be able to stand on a walker again. Once I am able to use the walker, I will hopefully graduate to crutches by time.
Being on wheelchair kills me slowly as a human being.
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Dear BelowTheMean,
Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
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Hi rocky sorry to hear this news. hope you get better soon. I did some research on your doctor abu nemr jamal and he seemed to have some positive testimonials from dragan who is well respected (i think). he seems to be a legit qualified doctor but if you say his documents are fake then its horrible
can you say some words about taller_in_kiev who used to say good things about abu? Did he work for the doctor? he made some posts on this thread and also on other threads and said he had 100% recovery and spoke in perfect english.
he also said you were doing very well and recovering.
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Dear Las Vegas Baby,
Dr. Dragan is not alive. He died under unknown circumstances.
Regarding Taller_in_Kiev... Jamaal presented him to me. He seemed like a good person and he was giving me good advices on how to workout my legs. I've met him twice and I have nothing bad to say about him.
Regarding his business with Jamaal. I prefer to step out of this discussion. Please ask him directly.
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Dr. Dragan was indeed respected when he was alive. My doctor had two great understudies while I was there. I assumed Dr. Jamal, as Dr. Dragan's understudy, picked up the torch and continued offering services at his level. I guess assumptions like that are dangerous. :o
Thank you so much for coming forward and sharing this information with the forum.
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I don't know Dr. Dragan and I have never met him, so I can't comment this.
I know that he died years back. This is all what I know.
Regarding Jamaal's level. I will leave this to be answered by the Ukrainian law & court in the future.
You are most welcome dear.
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Hi Rocky,
Thank you for sharing your story.
So you have uneven limb length with non union and are in a wheelchair? What is your first step in fixing these issues? Are you able to work from home? Does your home country have a public health system that could help you at all? Doctors that can leave their patients this way deserve to lose their medical licence.
You are doing a real public service sharing this information. Please keep people updated we are wishing you a full recovery.
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Hello Highest,
Thank you dear.
I have to either shorten one leg or lengthen the other leg to make them equal. That is technically possible with a limb lengthening device. My main concern is the non-union.
I have been researching allografting vs autografting and I have heard different doctor's opinions. But I am not sure who is right and who is wrong anymore. Besides it is financially costly for me. Not to neglect the physiotherapy part, because I have lost a huge part of my muscles mass. I can't afford any treatment at the moment. I'm under financial pressure.
I am dreaming about being able to support myself with a walker. I miss the feeling of being able to stand up. But that is not something that is going to happen in the near future. I have to be realistic with myself.
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Out of curiosity dears,
What is the best treatment for non-union?
Allografting, autografting or something totally else?
Please share your experience.
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Out of curiosity dears,
What is the best treatment for non-union?
Allografting, autografting or something totally else?
Please share your experience.
just a vague idea..
its compression+ bone graft..thats what mahbobian does here:
https://www.instagram.com/tv/B8PPa08HNQw/?igshid=1lu5trmexkfa0
btw i thought your nail could compress too, right? i remember you mentioned it in your initial posts.
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Dear fivetenneeded2016,
Interesting and thanks for sharing.
The nail mechanism has failed (again), so it is was not working anymore. The nail couldn't lengthen or shorten anymore. It was standing still.
I am using a normal rod now. I need a replacement with a standard and reliable limb lengthening nail from the market. And most importantly I have to be treated by a reliable doctor that doesn't experiment with his patients. I would believe that standard nails such as Precice or Stryde would do the job pretty well. But I can't afford such a nail at the moment.
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Dears,
I have been looking at this method:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jRELWYF8l4&t=214s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jRELWYF8l4&t=214s)
Anyone has done this before and does it work?
Any experience with this RIA treatment?
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I have also found this article that describes this method:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21487820/ (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21487820/)
Any experience with this bone grafting & RIA treatment?
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I have also found this article that describes this method:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21487820/ (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21487820/)
Any experience with this bone grafting & RIA treatment?
Hi Rocky sorry to hear about your experience.
Just wondering, since your goal is to get back to walking, why don't you just get the doctor to reset the nail but without the lengthening part? E.g., remove the nails on one side, push the leg together, and then renail it when the bones are closer. Given there is non-union, it should be easy to bring the two parts of the bone together and you wouldn't need a lengthening device (I would have thought). You would lose the lengthening part but at least your bones would be next to each other which would help with healing (again, just a thought that you have test with the doctor).
What is preventing you from walking? Is it because the nail you have right now is non-weight bearing?
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Dear m7liam,
This is one of the options that I also thought about.
Right now I have just normal rods holding my legs, so my legs don't collapse. Jamaal's nails kept failing and he did repetitive surgeries and many mistakes mounting the nails, so I literally escaped to another hospital to replace the limb lengthening nail with normal rods. His lack of hygiene caused me bones infection. I had to go through a 3 weeks treatment and tons of injections (nightmare) to get rid of the infections, and 2 surgeries to replace his nails with normal rods.
Anyhow, back to the leg resetting... Resetting the legs back to their original size can't be done overnight. In other words, you can't just collapse the legs suddenly to their original size as far I was explained by one of the doctors, because your muscles, tissues etc. have been extended. They have to gradually get used to be shortened again while you are pushing the bones backwards. But it is technically possible as I was told, and it is a painful treatment.
I would guess it is like lengthening, but you go the opposite direction. But I am not a doctor. I am just sharing what I have been told.
The shortening treatment needs a careful treatment and monitoring by a doctor. In my case, I will need a surgery to remove the normal rods and insert limb lengthening nails that are designed to shorten (go backward and not forward)…. Once you shorten over a period of time and the bones edges are close to each others, you will need a surgery to cut the edges from each side (ca. 0.5-1 cm from each end) and the doctor needs to refresh the bones from each edge.... You will in this case lose about 1-2 cm from your height.
To conclude the topic, yes it is technically doable to shorten yourself back. You have to accept that it will take time, it is painful and you have to accept being 1-2 cm shorter in height.
If you have money enough, you could then lengthen again and start all over. As you can probably imagine, it is not a cheap journey. So you have to be prepared financially.
It is an option that I have differently evaluated. The problem is, that I couldn't keep my job due to my disability and therefor I can't financially afford any treatment at the moment.
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Thank you Rocky for sharing your experience and getting back to us on your predicament even after all these years. I have no questions, I only sincerely wish you the best of health and hoping thay you may recover soon
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Hello Sibirskiy.
Thank you dear for your sincere wishes.
I wish you all the luck and God bless you and your family.
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Thanks Rocky.
I’m not sure I understand from your explanation why your legs can’t suddenly shorten.
I guess you’ve only spoken to one doctor? It is worth speaking to Paley or Giotikas to see if that is true? Sometimes I find different doctors say different things.
Because if it wasn’t, and your legs could shorten instantly, you wouldn’t need to go through cost and time to shorten.
Food for thought.
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Hello m7liam,
You are welcome dear and I appreciate your thoughts around the topic.
I have spoken with several doctors the last 3 years and they basically explained the shortening treatment with the same conclusions. I am not a doctor, so I am just sharing what I have learned from my discussions with those orthopedic specialists.
As much I wish it could be that simple, but it seems that it is not that straight forward. In my humble understanding, you can't just collapse your legs 5 or 7 cm overnight. You could easily damage your legs and nerves, etc. You have to do it gradually so the body can get used to it, such as the surrounding muscles, tendons, soft tissues, nerves, etc. Because bare in mind that the lengthened muscle, tendons, soft tissue, nerves, etc. got used to that the 5 or 7 cm are your actual length in that particular leg area. Your brain would also adapt to it as well.
You will be surprised how many body parts will be involved during the lengthening... and I guess it applies for shortening as well. But again, I am not a doctor nor an expert.
There is also a method called bone transport, where the surgeons cuts the femur that is close to the knee and push it slowly upward to fill the non-union gap while the lower bone edges create enough callus to generate a new bone from one end, while closing the gap from the other end. But that is a lengthy, painful and expensive treatment too. It needs an experienced doctor to do it.
Alternatively there is the RIA technique. I have posted a YouTube video about it the other day. Some doctors endorse it, while others say that it is not a guaranteed method. Especially if the non-union is very large.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jRELWYF8l4&t=214s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jRELWYF8l4&t=214s)
Paley is defiantly the go-to-doctor in the limb lengthening arena and you will probably minimize your failure risk significantly, but you need to be prepared financially. On the other hand, you get what you pay for.
After my limb lengthening experience, I came to the conclusion that it is always wise to engage with a doctor who has done those kind of surgeries thousands of times and has a good reputation... and wants to maintain his reputation through successful treatments and satisfied 'customers' (patients). Paley and his team have probably done more than 1000+ surgeries, if not more, since they started this business few decades ago. They know their stuff very well.
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Hi Rocky
I’ve never heard about a gradual leg shortening. I know for sure many doctors do shortening surgery at least in a safe range of 5cm/surgery. The main problem in my opinion is related to big vessels, since there’s not a stretch but an excessive collapse could lead to obstructions. Have you spoken to LL surgeons or “normal” ortopedics?
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Dear Tartar,
That's absolutely true. Big vessels are also something that can't be neglected. Also the nerves and soft tissues, etc. I have been talking with both, LL surgeons and regular orthopedic doctors. You get a different opinion from every doctor and it is very confusing.
I wonder if this RIA method is worth it, because you will end up doing one surgery and you will not suffer from the shortening treatment. Different doctors have different opinions about the RIA method as well, so it is hard to judge whether it is worth trying or not in the future.
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Dear Rocky
Sincerely sorry to hear of your experience. I hope you are well on the road to recovery. Rest assured, you will walk and even run again.
I had my surgeries with Dr Dragan (RIP) and Dr Jamal in 2004 and can attest to a good result. Dr Dragan died of a heart attack as far as I know.
I don't know how it is done today but in my time and fortunately for me, it was quite organised and run smoothly. Dr Jamal, bless him, visited me almost daily to do my clicking, which I wasn't able to do unassisted. I've always had a good experience with Dr Jamal. I have no business affiliation with him and he is someone I would consider a friend, being of roughly similar age.
No two patients will have the same experience and no doctor will have a perfect record. I think all should bear in mind there is no surgery without risk and this being one of the, if not the most extreme type of surgery out there, one should always tread with caution and think long and hard before committing to anything, as well as weigh the risks vs the rewards carefully.
If there is anything I can do for you, let me know.
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https://youtu.be/39zipYtYxPg
https://youtu.be/Zsax0chKW9Y
Dear Rocky
Seriously not posting the above vids to rub it in your face or anything like that, I am once again very saddened to learn of your experience and I sincerely hope to see you walking unaided in the very near future but the idea here and since I removed all my photos and videos from my own post some time back, not wanting to lurk around forums - most LL patients prefer to move on with their lives and I am sure you are eager to put this whole chapter of your life behind you too - but the idea as I was saying is to motivate you, because let me assure you pal, if I can do it, so can you!!! Eat well, rest well, put weight on the leg needing healing and you'll be there in no time. Best wishes.
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I was always very critical to doctors that operates with ancient or unknown devices like the one that these crook used (Bliskunov or something) and moreover when these "doctors" charge unreal fees for all that crap.
Nemer wanted about 30k euros for a device that has been manufactured from a car mechanic (!) in Ukraine, where the average salary is 200 euros per month!
So that crook wanted 150X the average salary of his country for a faulty device that maybe cost less than 500 euros and without even having basic knowledge of what he was doing that ruined many LLers lives.
I really hope butchers like them to go in jail.
But all the future LL'ers must be much more sensible and not trust their legs and their lives on unknown doctors in third world countries with unknown devices because all these are a recipe for disaster.
Moreover when that butchers want huge amounts of money like Nemer while with less than 20-25k someone can do external tibias in respectable doctors in eu countries.
Rocky keep strong !
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wow.. i was skeptical of this palestinian asylum seeker Abu Nemer pretending to be a LL-surgeon.
But the shill Taller_in_kiev kept arguing for.
Now I see poor Rocky suffering this. Abu nemer has no successfull diaries. All non-unions.
Only case of union is taller_in_kiev who did 11 cm or something in femur and looks like slenderman and will be in wheelchair when he gets older from the gradual damages caused to knees and joints by altering the anatomical axis.
hey taller in kiev u piece of . I know you get comission from the butcher Abu Nemer, how dare you come into Rockys diary when he is suffering like this and keep promoting these dangerous criminal "surgeon".
admin needs to ban this guy and nemer
ffs...
my heart goes out to you Rocky, to be in such a limbo for so long time. Stay strong, I will pray for you.
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Dear all,
I have read your comments. All I can say again and again... and I repeat it once again...
STAY AWAY
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Dear Tartar,
That's absolutely true. Big vessels are also something that can't be neglected. Also the nerves and soft tissues, etc. I have been talking with both, LL surgeons and regular orthopedic doctors. You get a different opinion from every doctor and it is very confusing.
I wonder if this RIA method is worth it, because you will end up doing one surgery and you will not suffer from the shortening treatment. Different doctors have different opinions about the RIA method as well, so it is hard to judge whether it is worth trying or not in the future.
Health insurance won’t cover anything for you? I feel so bad for you my friend
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I'm shocked with your story, I quickly found few articles by Dragan V.V., obviously Jamal was his assistant.
That clinic exists only on paper, and since 2009 is not even a taxpayer due to 0 income.
No reviews in rus/ukr regarding this clinic or Jamal himself (https://doc.ua/doctor/kiev/dzhamal) which would tell that business is shady and focused only on helpless foreigners.
There are clinics doing LL in Ukraine, but with Ilizarov-like devices.
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I was not aware of this journal (mostly because I read or checked only a handful of journals and tried to rely more on my own research on which doctor, which method, etc.). Just did a quick check of pages 1 and 8 to realize what happened.
I am very sorry this happened to you. It is considerate of you to inform others, so hopefully future LL'ers would choose their path more carefully. I hope in the long run, say 10 years from now, when you'll look back, you see the tragic episodes as a part of your life that made you wiser and stronger, and constructively made your life better.
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这很遗憾 希望你早日康复