Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Doctors => Topic started by: Muse on October 05, 2013, 07:58:55 PM
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Here's the response and updated information from Beijing Institute of External Fixation Technology, headed by Dr Xia Hetao (Director) & Dr Roger Li (Honorary Consultant Surgeon).
Note: please refer to our disclaimer about The Doctors Directory
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0
Pricing
From 1 November 2015, the package price is adjusted to 25,000 Euros for 5-8 cm lengthening and 4 months hospital stay (full boarding), with additional charges at 1500 Euros/per extra cm. We require a deposit of 5,000 Euros to be paid first to secure a place and a surgery.
The cost of our service package is 25,000 Euros includes a (up to) 5-8 cm inches lengthening on both tibiae or femurs, inclusive of all the first two surgeries (the first surgery to put external frame and nails and 2nd surgery for removing the external frame), treatments and hospitalization for the entire treatment period (up to 4 months, two people to share), high speed internet, new wheelchair, all medicine and walking aids, plus regular meal (restaurant meal at extra cost). If any complication occurs during the procedure while you are in our hospital, we guarantee to treat it free of charge till the complication is completely settled.
If you would like to do more than 8 cm and stay extra time after the 4 month period, than a rate at 1,500 Euros per cm will be charged. We provide English translators for international patients and there are many patients from US, Canada, Japan, Denmark, India, etc. in our hospital receiving treatment at present. If you want to do both tibiae and femurs lengthening, then, then two separate procedures will be taken and you need to wait at least 1 year in between to allow functional recovery of the limbs. The price will double as you need to pay for separate packages.
How to pay:
The package price (e.g. 25,000 Euros) needs to be paid in two installments. First you need to pay a deposit of 5,000 Euros to secure a place; then at your arrival in Beijing, you need to pay the rest of 20,000 Euros, at the time of admission. Payment can be done in cash, traveler checks or bank transfer. No credit card payment or personal check is accepted at present. We can send you our bank details for you to set up a bank transfer arrangement with your home banks and you can transfer the fund once you are in Beijing, just before the surgery.
Amount of Lengthening
In regard to the lengthening surgery, we usually lengthen the tibiae for cosmetic purposes, as most of people with short stature have relatively short tibiae, and the lengthening of tibiae will make them look more even. The surgery on tibiae is also relatively easy and risk free comparing to femurs (as there are a lot of muscles around it and special cares are needed to keep the patients comfortable during the lengthening). In most of cases, 8-10 (3-4 inches) cm tibial lengthening is sufficient to satisfy the needs.
Timeline For Recovery
The time for hospitalization would be around 4-5 months for 5-6 cm lengthening depending on your body's recovery ability. From 2014, we have developed a new method of osteotomy, in that the bone is cut in an oblique line using multiple pinholes. The new method of osteotomy has eliminated potential risk of non-union or poor bone formation, we have performed more than 50 cases, all are successful. After the planned lengthening (e.g. 8 cm) is achieved, the external fixator will be removed and at the same time your leg will be fixed by the internal fixator (intramedullary nail) through locking screws. A few weeks after the second surgery, you can return to work and be discharged from the hospital. At early stage of the first surgery and during the lengthening, you will need working aid to walk, but once the lengthening is finished and external fixator removed, then you can work free, but you should not do competitive sport for the next 12 months to allow bone to fully recover. You can go back to normal life with the internal nails for approx. 1 year, and then you may remove the nails (this is a simple procedure and you only need to stay in hospital for around 10 days after the nails being taken out). Added together, the total time needed for completion of the entire treatment would be around 12-16 months, but you can go back to work or normal life after 4-6 months, and resume full sport activities after 24 months.
There will be some scars along the pin tracts, which can be removed after the procedure if necessary by cosmetic surgery. We could do so at a cost of about 1,500 Euros for removing all the major scars at the time of removing the intramedullary nails on both legs. As far as the long term side effect is concerned, we did not predict any if the procedure is done correctly, as this is just like a fracture repair by tissue regeneration, we create a situation that stimulates your own growth potentials which has ceased early, so that we consider the LL procedure is a natural process, hence with less harmful consequences anticipated.
Our surgery team is headed and performed in person by Prof. He-Tao Xia, who is very experienced orthopaedic surgeon specialized in leg lengthening cosmetic surgery, who have carried out more than 1,800 cosmetic leg lengthening procedure with great success. Dr. Xia will explain everything clearly to patients, and we will sign an agreement with patient to clearly outline the responsibilities and risks of each party.
Summary of our clinical experience
Till now, we have performed leg lengthening surgery for more than 1,900 cases. Patients were from USA, Italy, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and all over China. Most of the patients are suffers of short stature and 80% of the patients have postgraduate degrees, aged between 14-52 years, (average age: 22.6 years). The height before surgery was between 117-175 cm (average 152 cm); the average increased height was 8.6 cm (3-33 cm). Among the patients, there are three cases of serious complications, bone nonunion 2 cases (1 case was caused by fast lengthening rate; another was due to diet problem, lack of nutrition), ankle joint deformity 1 case (the patient was 52 years old and has other medical conditions). All the three cases were treated by secondary surgery with satisfactory outcomes. Overall, 99% of the patients were very satisfied with the outcome of their treatment. At present, serious complications such as bone nonunion have been completely avoided by using Xia's leg-lengthening technique, only minor complications such as mild pinhole infection (in less than 0.5% patients) are occasionally seen and are dealt with easily.
It is not necessary to have a pre-surgery consultation and checks, as we can do this one go before the surgery when you are here in our hospital. Please check if you meet the conditions for cosmetic leg lengthening on our website: http://www.leg-lengthening.com/advice.html and if you are, then you can decide a time and book your flight and let me know in 2-3 weeks advance, then we can arrange your hospitalization and treatment accordingly, we can also assist with your visa application and arrange your airport pickup (these are all included in the price of the package). Of course, you can visit our hospital in Beijing first, to see in your own eyes and then decide from there. Please let me know if you need more information.
For Chinese visa, please go to nearest Chinese embassy to apply for a tourist visa, and it is easy to get and you can stay for up to 3 months. Once you are in China, we can help to extend the visa for you if needed. Once you got the visa and booked the flight, please let me know so that we can arrange airport pickup, your hospital stay and surgery time accordingly.
Many interesting patients would always request to have one to one telephone consultation or speak to our in-patient. Although we understand your feeling and concern, but it is not possible for us to give telephone consultation due to medical legal reason, and we have signed contract with every single patient that we are not in a position to dishcloth patient’s private information, let alone to allow strangers to talk to our patients. We have tried our best to address the frequently asked questions and these can be found at our website under FAQs and Answers. If you are still unsure and want to have a private visit prior to making up your mind, then you are welcome to visit our hospital for a one to one consultation with Dr. Xia and see the hospital facilities, and you may have a chance to talk to the patients in our hospital there. For such visit, the cost is 500 Euros including consultation with Dr. Xia and guided hospital tour. If you have decided to come to our hospital for a surgery within 3 months of the consultation, then the fee is refunded from the total package cost.
What kind of physical therapy is assigned or provided to the patient?
No special ones, patients shall do the walking following our instructions.
What maximum amount of lengthening do you recommend per segment, regarding patient safety? What is the daily rate of lengthening?
8 cm is pretty safe in our hand. The usual daily rate of lengthening is 0.5-1 mm, this can be adjusted according to your healing by the doctors.
What is your opinion regarding the weightbearing of the patients?
Patients will need to do the weight bearing exercise daily from day one of surgery.
How often will you follow up with patients during lengthening?
Monthly r-ray and daily check by doctor when you are in hospital.
Don't hesitate to get in touch with me if you need further clarification.
All the best wishes
Contact Info
Dr. Roger Li, MD, PhD
Senior Consultant
Beijing Institute of External Fixation Technology
www.leg-lengthening.com
info@leg-lengthening.com
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Wow, China's leg lengthening clinics have raised their prices at an alarming rate. Dr. Xia would be a great deal if you are a Chinese local. You'll pay about a third of the price that they advertise on their site.
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Is anyone planning on going to China soon. I am strongly thinking about it!! I haven't seen a diary in awhile, are they still a solid option?
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Hey time4all
I wish we could get more patient diaries but we are just startin up. We have to be patient.
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My personal opinion about China is that it's too expensive now.
They absolutely get the job done and the care seems to be better than in India but with that price I'd rather save a little bit more and do internals with Dr Jamal.
It's also been reported that the IM-nail they use is of poor quality. A patient who lengthened his femurs with Dr Sarin did his tibia in China and he managed to bent his one nail so he had to go back to China and change it.
That scared the cr*p out of me.
The part where they charge 3 times more for foreigners makes me a little sick, but business is business and I think they have the greatest track record of all the doctors who perform LL.
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Apparently Dr Xia no longer does the surgery, he is like a Director of the hospital who oversee things generally and trained several doctors who do the surgery.
This has been true since 2007. I met with Dr. Xia once for my initial consultation (at my insistence) and that was the last I saw of him except seeing him walking by in the courtyard one other time. Dr. Li came to visit me twice during the five months I was there. He did (and I think he still does) spend most of his time in the UK. Those two are really just figureheads at this point. They haven't updated their website or sales pitch since 2007 except for the prices.
Dr. Aimin Peng is the surgeon there. If there's a good argument to go to China, it's that nobody and I mean nobody does more LL surgeries than Dr. Peng. That place was like a factory assembly line with multiple surgeries a day the whole time I was there. Foreign patients get priority for morning surgeries, so if he's tired at the end of the day it's a Chinese patient who's paying the price.
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You'd think the cost in China would depreciate after all these years since the introduction of the precise nail, internal methods and other advances, but sadly, it hasn't changed one bit.
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You'd think the cost in China would depreciate after all these years since the introduction of the precise nail, internal methods and other advances, but sadly, it hasn't changed one bit.
A major reason why they've been raising their prices is because the Chinese Yuan has been increasing in value relative to pretty much every other country's currency.
I paid 25000 USD for the operation in 2007. Adjusted for CNY appreciation/ USD depreciation, the current price would be 31000 USD. Now it's 33000 USD. So they have only raised their prices by 6% over the last 6 years when you take currency appreciation/depreciation out of the equation.
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Has anyone else heard that the Chinese IM nails are of lesser quality? I have read a few diaries on old forum and have never come across anyone saying this.
I think the price is reasonable considering how good there track record seems to be. They seem to be the place with the least amount of risks and the most experience.
@Sweden
How did he bend the nail? That is very concerning if there IM nails are of lesser quality than other places.
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Has anyone else heard that the Chinese IM nails are of lesser quality? I have read a few diaries on old forum and have never come across anyone saying this.
I think the price is reasonable considering how good there track record seems to be. They seem to be the place with the least amount of risks and the most experience.
@Sweden
How did he bend the nail? That is very concerning if there IM nails are of lesser quality than other places.
I know two Beijing patients who've had problems with the IM nail. I don't think that the nails themselves were to blame in either case though. Both times it had to do with the screws that attached the nail to the bone coming loose. The first case was caught early by the doctors before the guy left the hospital; they did another operation to correct it and his departure had to be delayed for two weeks. He later had some minor problems with the screws again, but nothing that required an additional surgery. The second person did have to fly back to Beijing and get it fixed.
I never had a problem with my IM nails from Beijing, and I know two other patients who didn't have problems with theirs either. The three of us who didn't have problems with the IM nail had really good bone growth the whole time we were there, and the two with the nail problems had less than stellar bone growth. That might explain the reason for the problems, or it might just be a coincidence.
Still, I think it's a legitimate concern to have about their program. If you're thinking of going there, you might ask them for more information about their IM nails and the screws they use, and why some people have been experiencing problems.
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Obviously LL prices change to certain level based on supply and demand. Pre-2007 and following old forum A's positive experience in Beijing, a lot of foreigners got their LL done there and prices shot up from ~$20,000 USD to over $30,000 USD. Since 2009, the dollar's value has increased but Beijing's LL price remains high. However, seeing as how the admin of the other site is actively trying to market Dr. Sringari in India, is foreign interest in Beijing, which uses similar LL technology to India (the clear difference being the level of CLL expiriemce of the doctors as well as level of attention toon from doctors and staff), starting to wane? If more people are drawn to India, for better or worse, why do Beijing's prices continue to increase for foreigner's. Does anyone know if they plan on continuing to increase prices? Seeing as Doctor M offers CLL with Taylor Spatial frames for 45,000 USD, they may soon price themselves out of the foreign market at this rate. Does anyone else this will be the case? I certainly hope it won't be since I think Beijing is still the best place to go for externals, yet the fact that there are no 2013 diaries for Dr. Xia doesn't look good. Any thoughts?
Also, I am not the same person as Tall on the other site. I did think he had an awesome username (the first word I think of when I think of CLL) and wanted it for myself, so this new LL site has already made some of my dreams come true haha.
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They probably did about 40-50 foreign LL cases in 2007. As people came and went, I don't remember the hospital's foreign population ever dropping below 20 the first time I was there. There were 5 foreigners when I went back for my IM nail removal in December 2008. They don't seem to be interested in competing with other clinics, either higher-end or lower-end. They could easily lower their prices (they make an absurd amount of profit on foreign patients) but they don't. They could move their clinic out of the Feng Tai slums but they don't. It's illegal for them to import foreign internal nail technology and they either can't or won't make their own. With China's reputation for industrial/intellectual piracy I expected a cheap knock-off Chinese internal nail to be offered there eventually, but it's just never happened, possibly due to the Chinese government's cracking down on counterfeiting of all kinds.
Dr. Xia is an old man who wasn't doing much at the clinic even in 2007. Dr. Li spends most of his time in England. Dr. Peng is doing most of the work in the operating room but he's still the #3 doctor there officially. I'm not sure he's the ambitious guy who's going to take over and become the new face of LL in China. Two young rookies, Dr. Han (a different Han not Lianyi Han on the website) and Dr. Zhou started working at the clinic when I was there and now have ~6 years of experience if they're still there. Maybe one of them will be bold enough to do something in the coming years, or maybe they're happy just working there and will fade into obscurity when Dr. Xia dies.
The dollar might buy you more in some places than it did in 2009, but that's not true in China. The Yuan has continued to appreciate, and the planned deregulation of its exchange rate could cause its value to skyrocket. The Beijing Institute of External Fixation is a microcosm of what's going on in China as a whole now. The days of cheap LL, and cheap everything else for that matter, might be coming to an end in China. But if it's not the place where you can get everything cheaply and do whatever you want with your business, what's its new identity?
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I am a current overseas patient in Beijing. My operation to put on the fixators was 27 September this year. That was day one. On day nine I commenced lengthening at .667mm per day and I have missed one day due to illness. Today I was sent to the parent hospital for investigations due to my persistent diahorrhea, and I had vomiting a couple of nights before. I have a strong persistent cough and voice hoarseness.
Dr Peng Aimin was my operating surgeon. I have not seen Dr Xia or Dr Li except where there are pictured and listed on the staff directory.
There is another foreign patient here who has finished lengthening: a female who goes home to Europe later this month. I'm not sure there is a male, but two males are coming soon: an American, an Australian. Other patients come from at times far parts of China and they are correcting abnormalities of leg length and range of motion. Small kids, middle aged and between.
I am perturbed by this: there's not a pet cat or dog or bird around here.
Start me a diary, can you?
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This isn't old forum . You can start your own diary here. Just go to the Patient Experiences subforum and click on "NEW TOPIC".
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@Thegosis, you can start the diary by clicking "New Topic" in the section to discuss your experience in China.
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Can anyone explain why there are so few foreign patients with Dr. Xia? There were no diaries for Dr. Xia in 2013 on old forum , whereas there was always 1-7 diaries for the preceding years. Also, I've seen comments on the large number of foreign patients there.
When I last communicated with Ronne last month, she said there were about 5 patients.
I am considering going there in May 2014.
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They raised their prices. Then raised them again. And then again...
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Can anyone explain why there are so few foreign patients with Dr. Xia? There were no diaries for Dr. Xia in 2013 on old forum , whereas there was always 1-7 diaries for the preceding years. Also, I've seen comments on the large number of foreign patients there.
When I last communicated with Ronne last month, she said there were about 5 patients.
I am considering going there in May 2014.
they increased their prices, the greedy bastards. One price for locals, another price for naive foreigners. By increasing the prices they moved to middle-tier range on the price chart. So all the low-budget patients ran off to sarins and sringaris, while mid-budget patients can now afford internal LL in ukraine.
The high end patients are with betz, guichet, donghoon, paley etc.
so the winners here are everyone bar the greedy punk Dr. Xia.
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they increased their prices, the greedy bastards. One price for locals, another price for naive foreigners. By increasing the prices they moved to middle-tier range on the price chart. So all the low-budget patients ran off to sarins and sringaris, while mid-budget patients can now afford internal LL in ukraine.
The high end patients are with betz, guichet, donghoon, paley etc.
so the winners here are everyone bar the greedy punk Dr. Xia.
From five months spent living in China, it seems that there's a mentality over there that it's good to try and get as much money out of foreigners as possible because it's more money that's being put into the country. It's like a China pride thing. Dr Bai that supplies the micro-wound fixators in Chongqing does the same thing. He has an $8,000 USD price for locals and $33,000 for foreigners.
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If you were a person of foreign birth (and obviously non-Chinese appearance aka black or white etc), but lived and worked in China, would you be allowed to pay the locals' price or would you still be made to pay the foreigners' price? Would the ability to speak Mandarin affect the price paid at all?
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I don't think speaking Mandarin would influence the price at all. I speak it with high proficiency but people in China still tried to sell me things at highly inflated prices. The only thing I think would influence it were if you had proof that you were a resident of China and were employed there. That's something that would be interesting to see.
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When I paid last year it was at the rate of $EUR25000/$USD33000, and I'm not aware of a raise subsequent to that. There are presently 4 foreign patients undergoing lengthening here. The fifth we had went home before spring break and he was in just for the removal of a rod. Rumour is that we should be getting two more now that Spring Festival has passed. I think I am the only person here with an entire room for myself to that puts things very close to capacity. Before SF they let go of the cook delivering the foreign menu here, so now there is just one menu and one cook for all patients here.
If you have a foreign passport I think there is nil chance you will qualify for a local patient price, no matter how well you speak Chinese.
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The website has been updated. They're back to offering 10cm again.
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I am a current overseas patient in Beijing. My operation to put on the fixators was 27 September this year. That was day one. On day nine I commenced lengthening at .667mm per day and I have missed one day due to illness. Today I was sent to the parent hospital for investigations due to my persistent diahorrhea, and I had vomiting a couple of nights before. I have a strong persistent cough and voice hoarseness.
Dr Peng Aimin was my operating surgeon. I have not seen Dr Xia or Dr Li except where there are pictured and listed on the staff directory.
There is another foreign patient here who has finished lengthening: a female who goes home to Europe later this month. I'm not sure there is a male, but two males are coming soon: an American, an Australian. Other patients come from at times far parts of China and they are correcting abnormalities of leg length and range of motion. Small kids, middle aged and between.
I am perturbed by this: there's not a pet cat or dog or bird around here.
Start me a diary, can you?
My operation was on 27 November, not September. I've stated that wrong above.
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Thanks to advice from you folks I have discarded India for my LL. Recent diary on Harbin, China looks interesting (fewer patients) however Bejing seems best for me now in terms of price/reputation. Only concern is that I want femur as mine are short and not many diaries of Femur external LON ?
I have sent three emails to the 'info' address for Beijing over the past two weeks but no reply. Can anyone suggest another email address ?
Regards
Liam
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Has anyone heard of the price change and them moving to a new hospital?? I have heard they moved to a new hospital in the last month.
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It's the same hospital, but they built a new building where one of the courtyards used to be.
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I don't think so. I have been in contact with Ronne and she has sent me pictures of a new hospital they have moved to. It looks much nicer than the one they are currently in.
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Okay I found out what's been going on. They still have Guang Ji Hospital, which has a new building, and they're also sending some patients to a different hospital.
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Hi Time4LL
Can you give me contact details for Ronnie please?
Cheers
LittleLiam
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Does anybody know if they changed their price?
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The package price is 35,000 USD with 4 months hospital stay; 1,500 USD per month will be charged after that.
The email I have been using is leglengthening@aliyun.com.(edit: this email is no longer the correct contact for the Beijing Institute of External Fixation Technology)
I really think this is the best option but that amount of money is getting out of my price range.
edited for outdated contact info
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A minor price hike, around 1000 euros more. There are more affordable options for LON/LATN. I know India has gotten alot of bad rep but Dr Parihar and Dr Naveen Talwar look like possible options.
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I just got an email from Ronne saying if you stayed in the old hospital it is still 24000 Euros for the first four months. I really think India is a bad option at this point.
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Okay I found out what's been going on. They still have Guang Ji Hospital, which has a new building, and they're also sending some patients to a different hospital.
I'm at the Guangji Hosptial now and this is spot on. I don't know where that other hospital is but the two other foreign patients here have definitely met other foreign patients who are there and naturally paying more for it.
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Thank you Time4LL, I have emailed that address and requested information for my proposed August journey!
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Some pictures of the other hospital they are using that Ronne sent me. Jerry asked me to post them.
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Some more.
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Same lousy toilets though. :P ;D
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@ littlelamb I am planning on going somewhere to lengthen in August too. Are you for sure going to China?
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Ronne has responded to me and I've filled in her details form and sent back yesterday. I've proposed August for operation and stay for four months minimum, awaiting her confirmation :)
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Why go here over Jamal now? I am curious because I wonder with the price of scar revision I feel they should be around the same price.
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According to Disobedient's quote Jamal appears to be more expensive because ccomodation (apartment an food) is extra, on top of the $31.5/33.5K ,right ?
"The total cost of the lengthening program since 2014 takes into account a stay of a patient in the Ukraine for three months. 90-100 days - this is the time period for conducting a surgery and lengthening of femurs or tibias to the optimum length. The optimum length refers to the lengthening when muscles, tendons, and nerves are adapted sufficiently well to the new state of tension. It is 7.0 cm for femurs and 4.5-5.0 cm for tibias. The total cost of the lengthening program (TCLP) is 31 500,00 EUR ( for femurs /hips/) and 33 500 EUR (for tibias /shanks/). (Lengthening more than the optimum length increases the time period of lengthening and restoration. In this case it is necessary to adjust additional costs of the program of lengthening.)
This cost includes the cost of surgeries and a stay of a patient in hospital for the necessary term (as a rule 2-3 days), and also the cost of a surgery and a stay in hospital for the removal of devices (in 1 - 1.5 years after the beginning of lengthening).
The cost of the lease of apartments during the stay for the period of the lengthening is not includes in TCLP. Assistant can help to lease suitable apartment. /Cost of comfortable apartments is around 1000 EUR per month. Additional costs may be associated with a broker service for searching for an apartment - usually half the monthly cost, single payment/. Choice is better to do together among prepared options. It will take 1-2 days, as a rule.
Assistant on duty can be present in the apartments around the clock, if it is necessary.
The first day (of the three months period) begins with the first day in the hospital.
During the period of stay out of the hospital, a patient receives medical services, the cost of which is included in the TCLP. Medical services consist of the doctor's visits, the necessary physiotherapy, massages (total 60 sessions of intensive lower limbs massage), the necessary medicines, test x-rays. During the three months stay a patient is provided with meals based on the agreed upon menu (preference in the food). The cost of food (products) is not included in the TCLP. Assistants can assist in purchase of products. Patient can visit supermarkets together with assistant for choice and purchase of products. Maintenance (household) services consist of laundry, cleaning, cooking. The cost of Assistant’s service /maintenance services/ (daily 25 -30 EUR) is not included in the TCLP.
The international telephone calls and high-speed internet access are not included in the TCLP. TCLP does not change if the patient leaves Ukraine before the end of a three months term. TCLP remains to be invariable for all sizes of lengthening within the optimum lengths. Patient can lease an apartment and organize the necessary maintenance services by him/herself. "
Please arise ?
Regards
Liam
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Good to here LittleLiam, hopefully we can see some more Dr Xia diaries. Rather strange that they just seemed to have stopped recently.
Im saving up for China as well even with the new prices, its not that much more anyway. Jamal is the other option though he is more expensive and I might be going to him for femus should I choose to do another. What China has over Jamal is the the sense of community and being around other LL patients where as Jamal you are in an apartment 24/7 with no one but a maid should you pay for one
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Is it still 33k for the operation with 4 months stay? If so I am def interested, who else is planning on going?
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Hey ProgrammingDude
I'm talking to Ronne now about my operation in August;
"The package price is 35,000 USD with 4 months hospital stay in 2014 which needs to be paid at the time of admission. If you need longer hospital stay after 4 months of free period, 1,500 USD per month will be charged as extra"
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Way too much!
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Yeah...he is after ''foreign'' money. For locals it must be cheaper.
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Yeah...he is after ''foreign'' money. For locals it must be cheaper.
Yes, it is cheaper. The last time I asked (about six months ago) they said 70k yuan for the first surgery and 30k yuan for the second surgery. I am not sure how much to remove the rod. The accommodation isn't included thought. So I think it should be 10000 dollars cheaper. Living in Beijing isn't cheap by the way.
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Living in the Feng Tai district of Beijing is cheap though.
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Hmm 35k. Still seems like the best deal... Though.
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Hmm 35k. Still seems like the best deal... Though.
Agreed, considering their track record.
Only thing stopping me from going to China and doing tibs first is the scars
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Yeah, I wonder how bad the scars would really be? Or what the cheapest I could get internal femurs done from a reputable doctor to avoid the issue.
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I wish I'd saved some of my "before" scar revision pictures for you guys so you could see them. They weren't really gruesome; what I didn't like about them most was that they were in a noticeable, matching pattern on each leg so you could tell they were medical scars.
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Do you have hairy legs? I have hairy legs- Do you think that and a tan would help a bit?
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It depends on how dark the scars are. That seems to vary from person to person. We had a couple of people with really hairy legs in Beijing, but their scars were dark and therefore quite visible anyway.
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sounds like luck of the draw hmmm...
I'm agonizing over whether to go with the seemingly economical bejing, or break open the bank to make internal femurs happen to circumvent the issues.
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At first I decided that it was going to be Beijing and tibs first for me due to their relatively affordable cost and track record + the many foreigners there, practically a community of LLers as opposed to being by yourself in an apartment 24/7 elsewhere. But I have now decided to save some more and go with Dr Jamal in the Ukraine, my main reason is the scarring. Yes internals are more expensive but I guess the minimal scars and quicker recovery makes up for it. Cheapest internals for me is between Dr Jamal and Dr Franz Birkholtz in South Africa
Currently leaning towards Dr Jamal mainly because no one has yet gone to Dr Birkholtz, but who knows that might change a year or two from now
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It is hard since these places dont include the stay for the long period of time, and already have such high starting costs. But Internal femurs are in general a lot more than tibs for me IMO since 1. Less scars 2. Faster recovery(more minor) 3. Apparently no knee pain. 4. Easier doggy style on tall chicks!
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I haven't even been thinking about scars from my November surgery in Beijing until someone asked me to comment on this.
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What do you mean by that? Do you mean that your scars were so negligible you forgot about them?
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Hey Programming dude
Loved your comment about how much better doggie style will be after LL :-). I'll be so much better with longer femurs as now I have to balance on two pillows to do it :-(
haha
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Lol just being honest! Right now it works fine half the time but for taller chicks it is usually really awkward.
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Emailed them but still haven't heard back. Not sure whats up. I am currently undecided between them and cracking open the piggy bank and going with someone like paley.
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Lol just being honest! Right now it works fine half the time but for taller chicks it is usually really awkward.
Why is it usually really awkward Program dude? I thought longer Femurs means it would be easier doing doggystyle on tall chicks?
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Hey all,
I am planning on Beijing in Aug now and got a list of items to bring, please see below.
1, photos for visa extension in china
2, Converter or voltage transformer if it is necessary. 110V-220V.
3, wiring board
4, Medicine and food supplements
Bring some daily medicine or food supplements here which you get used to at home or some painkillers suit for you.
Does anyone know what the wiring board is/for?
Cheers
Liam
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If I had to guess, they probably mean a computer. But I know Wang Bei knows the word "computer", so that's still kind of strange.
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Does anyone know if Beijing is still planning to offer internal femurs, or have they scrapped that idea altogether?
It would be nice if they could come out with a reliable but affordable internal nail. I've never understood why internal lengthening nails have to cost $13,000+ a piece when the technology inside them is straightforward enough for a layman to comprehend. Surely good quality metal, like titanium, doesn't cost 10K. It's not like they're diamond nails. R&D must add to the cost, but if Beijing could make something similar to the existing betzbone or g-nail, and thus save on or eliminate most of the costs of R&D, it would be a dream come true.
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That idea has indeed been scrapped altogether with little hope of being revived. They can't legally import foreign nails into China, and Wang Bei said they're not able to design and manufacture their own (she didn't state why not though).
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Current domestic patient here. The operating surgeon is a man named Dr. Ma. Haven't seen Dr. Xia or Wang Bei in more than a month. All future cosmetic LL patients will be in the new hospital, YanDa International Hospital City (called a city because there are many large hospital buildings here) in Hebei, 1.5 hours from Beijing. Foreign patients pay more than 2 times as much as domestic patients. Less than 5 foreign patients here and not many domestic patients for cosmetic LL.
Internal methods is not and will not be a treatment option here. China is a country that values tradition, so don't expect modern treatment reflecting new research. Look up intramedullary nail and knee pain incidence rates (meta-analysis shows >50% knee pain for some time after rods are inserted).
The new hospital looks nicer, but isn't. The "beds" lack mattresses, causing serious problems for almost every patient here. Just 3 inch pad on a very hard, metal surface. Bed/pressure sores are a big problem. Many patients can't sleep because of this. The bathrooms smell like sewage every day and small flies are everywhere. The water has a very bad, strong smell. Food is not included in the price. Budget 70 yuan a day for food. There are few food options here since the hospital is located in a rural area (6 restaurants here). If you don't have family here to bring you food, your options are: KFC, Pizza Hut, only 4 local restaurants that will deliver here and the hospital cafeteria. KFC, Pizza Hut, and the hospital cafeteria are expensive. The local restaurants don't offer much variety. One is a noodle place, the other is a rice place, and two offer some meat, but very little for the price. Their menus are small too, so food gets boring after 4 months. Guang Ji is in Beijing, so it's easy to get good food there. There are also many small, hidden fees at the new hospital. They said we have to pay for any medicine we use. Very strange. Also, Wang Bei has no authority over the new hospital. The nurses here have different management, so there have been some awkward situations where Wang Bei gives directions to the Guang Ji maids here, but the hospital nurses don't let the maids comply with her instructions.
Physical therapy is very important, but not included in the price. Your suggested physiotherapy routine will be to stand and walk. Not very good, compared to other countries. Google the importance of physiotherapy or research it at http://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/. Should be easy to find reputatable research -- you can also check out Dr. Dror Paley's 600+ page textbook on LL where he talks about how bad physio can ruin a good surgery.
Freedom is limited. You aren't allowed to leave the hospital floor unless you are in very good condition and beg. Even then, you will rarely be let outside. Be willing to spend least 4 months on only one floor of a hospital.
Communication is hard for foreigners. If you can't speak Chinese...it is very hard for you. Internet is unreliable, sometimes 10kb/sec for several days (worse with VPN...), so don't expect Google Translate to help when the doctor comes in once a week for his 30 second visit. Wang Bei visits once every 4-5 weeks, so she can't help you much for the small conversations.
After the surgery, it's up to you to make sure you get good results through lots of walking, standing, stretching. If you don't want to exercise, you don't have to. Many domestic patients do not, so they take a long time to recover and suffer more pain during lengthening.
Not sure why foreigners would come here. For your price, I would go somewhere else.
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Thanks for the detailed inside information man, it is really appreciated and best of luck with your LL!
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Wow just wow, seems like CLL in China has fallen far from grace. Once a nice little community with a proven track record, now seems and sounds like its a total train wreck.
Might just splurge the extra cash and go with the more expensive Dr Lee and get piece of mind.
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Got my 90 day Chinese Visa today, hooray.
Finalising financial matters (advance rent, someone to look after my car, automatic bio payments, someone to check on my place etc) before I head to Beijing for 3-4 months.
Thanks you guys who went to Beijing before me as Im confident all will go well and I;ll be in the new hospital :-)
I may start my diary in two weeks before I go , aiming for end of next month, maybe the 28th.
Will keep you all updated.
Any advice on last minute things I should bring (did you regret bringing something?) or do, appreciated.
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If you use mouthwash, bring some. China's selection of mouthwash is pretty bad and it's really expensive. Also bring protein shake mix; as much as you can. I was actually able to sell some of mine to other patients at a profit. Vitamin/mineral supplements are a must-bring as well.
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Thanks MDW Ive stocked up on vitamins etc but never though of the mouthwash and protein which I use a lot! I notice credit cards not popular in China, should I open an account with Bank of China too ?
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Since everything is all-inclusive and you'll be staying at the hospital the whole time, you don't really need a Chinese bank account. For a little spending cash, my American debit card worked at Chinese ATMs. You can get the hospital's driver to take you, or Wang Bei will go for you if you're willing to trust her with your PIN. I did, and she didn't steal anything from me.
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ok thanks MDW, , just now Ronne has sent what looks like her account details with BOC Beijing. Di you transfer the funds in advance of travelling there? My intention was to have the funds available for when I got there and then transfer after my consultation just to be sure all is ok. I'm also think of taking a trip within China (about an hours flight) after 2.5 months for a couple of weeks and then coming back.
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I brought traveler's checks since I didn't really like the idea of wiring money to someone I'd never met before. Are you planning on doing an online wire transfer? I didn't have online banking back in 2007, so there wasn't that option for me.
As for the trip, I don't think it's a good idea to plan it until you know how you're going to be feeling at the time. I was very dependent on the caretakers so there's no way I could've gone on a trip like that. Other patients might have been able to do it though.
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Hi MDOW, yes I've opened account with BOC and lodged funds. Ill stay for 3 months and hope thats enough for 5 centre meters or a little more. If I can hire a caretaker to come with me into China for a month I plan on doing that after 2.5 months, I want to be using my arms early to lift myself around and intend building upon my existing good arm strength. I realise Facebook and GMAIl can be a problem but SKYPE is ok and hotmail so Ill be able to communicate to the outside world and to this site :-)
Again thanks for your diary and experience and it has given me so much confidence.
I'm one month away from the operation now :-)
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Good luck to you then! I hope you'll start a diary here and share the details of your LL journey. It makes me nostalgic to hear about people getting LL in China. :)
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Good luck Liam - I also hope you keep a diary here :)
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It seems as a long time ago there was a diary from China.
Best of luck.
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Reading the website and the FAQ it provides, I thought China sounded promising and also well within my budget. But now I read this thread, apparently not. :-\
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Reading the website and the FAQ it provides, I thought China sounded promising and also well within my budget. But now I read this thread, apparently not. :-\
What in this thread makes you not want to go to China?
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Theres no going back now. Most of my todo list items in terms of preparation are ticked off. I gave a months notice on my job three weeks ago and this coming week is my last week. I'll then use a few weeks to finalise remaining items and start my diary properly. My suitcases are packed! I'm taking enough stuff to keep me going for 4 months away ! I've also spent the last 12 weeks losing weight (went from 87 kilos to 78 so far ) and learning mandarin. I've also been studying about cinese culture and history and joined a [fuchsia] chinese dating site [/color] and have been chatting with some attractive candidates ;-)
(http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/19668603_b4door.jpg) (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19668603/b4door.jpg.html)
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is that really mistermystery82 ?
there gives not many doctors there make to this price and that extend the tibias so.
i think dr xia is a good option for the people that want be legs really longer.
i wish you good luck little jiam.
I hope it passes quickly and easily.
I plan next year to go to him. i am now in the save money phase :D.
I wait so exiting on your thread.good luck man good luck :)
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Totally excited for you Liam. Hope it all goes smoothly. It's been so long since a new Beijing diary that it will be very interesting to see how things are running there now.
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Does China also do externals only? Or is it just LON/LATN?
Finally a new China diary set in stone, will be watching with keen interest on the situation over there. Its been radio silence for a long time now
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I think you could get them to do external-only if you asked. I don't see why they'd force anyone to get the nails if they didn't want them.
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What in this thread makes you not want to go to China?
People in this thread saying that China has fallen far from grace in the last 7 years, that their standards have fallen etc.
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Hey MDOW, how long or how many times could you extend your visa whilst in China when you were there. Do you know what the maximum stay was for a foreigner?
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I don't know the answer because I never had to deal with it. Wang Bei makes sure you have a visa for as long as you need to stay at the hospital. She takes care of it all, no hassle.
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I want the scars to stay there because they indicate exactly where the screws and rod have been inserted in each leg. That is for ease of completing the final surgery to take all that out at the end of 2016
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I want the scars to stay there because they indicate exactly where the screws and rod have been inserted in each leg. That is for ease of completing the final surgery to take all that out at the end of 2016. With the scars I can tell a story of what I underwent to others that may default to an attitude of skepticism or incredulity/disbelief.
I'd never consent to receiving a tattoo. That's déclassé. These scar marks were necessary and purposeful & hence not vain or exhibitionist thus I regard them completely differently.
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I was born and educated in the US, but I attained domestic pricing through savvy negotiation.
Do not go here. On one leg, they drilled screws that completely missed the bottom of the rod. They failed to realize this even two weeks later, when an x-ray was taken. Essentially, the rod is useless since it is non-weight bearing; it is simply hanging from the top of the inside of my leg. On the other leg, they introduced a bone infection that will require further surgery, and at least 8 weeks of antibiotics. Even then, a positive outcome is not guaranteed. I visited with top Harvard/Stanford/UCSF/Johns Hopskins-educated orthopedic surgeons who were amazed at the low-quality of the surgery and the poor technical outcome. They said it takes incredible ignorance and stupidity for a surgeon to install 3 screws that all completely miss an internal rod...then not notice such a grave error in X-rays less than 2 weeks later. Naturally, these intelligent doctors immediately understood the nature of my surgery after a quick glance at my X-rays. "So you decided to grow taller, huh?"
There was another patient who had to have his second surgery twice. The first time, they incorrectly inserted the rods and had to remove them after about 10 days. Naturally, he was pissed.
Also, do not expect too many international diaries. China is not at a competitive price point to lure many international patients. There have only been 1-3 international patients at any given time since the beginning of 2014 (at least at the new hospital). Ronne/Wang Bei monitors these forums (we saw the website up on her computer) and if a current patient complained, in good English, she would immediately be able to infer who it is if there are enough details.
Go somewhere else. Dr. Xia is too old to still do surgeries; Michael Jordan may have been a great ball player, but he can no longer perform at an NBA-level. Dr. Xia's protegé, Dr. Ma, has drinking problems, cares more about flirting with the college-age nurses, and was preoccupied with having an extramarital affair. He drank heavily the night before one of his surgeries (he broke up with his girlfriend. he is also married.) on an international patient and was hungover during the surgery. The other doctors play Counter-Strike/Warcraft 3 at work. Incredibly unprofessional. This hospital is a joke.
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Yeah, that sounds like Dr. Ma. What happened to Dr. Peng?
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He drank heavily the night before one of his surgeries (he broke up with his girlfriend. he is also married.) on an international patient and was hungover during the surgery.
Jesus!!!! :-[
A hang over, cheating doctor. If I had a gazillion dollars I could turn this into a midday soap opera ;D
Seems like China is now a shadow of its former glory....
How are your legs now? Whats their current situation?
Can you walk, run, etc?
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That does sound bad but I hope you can return to 100% normal. I hope other people are doing okay there. I know Liam on this forum is doing surgery there now.
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Dr. Peng did not move to the new hospital. No idea where he is, but he's not at GuangJi either. The Chinese Health Organization (China's equivalent of the World Health Organization) shut down the Beijing hospital because such invasive cosmetic surgery does not have a recognizable health benefit in China. There are supposedly undercover police at/watching the Beijing hospital. Doctors left their white coats at home before going to visit GuangJi to avoid trouble (I met two there who discussed the issue).
Dr. Ma carries a lot of influence at the new hospital. Most of the orthopedic patients are his, so he brings in a majority of the revenue for the orthopedic unit, which is now a privately-owned hospital. He is quite the rainmaker.
My leg is seriously infected. In modern countries, a blood test is conducted after major open-wound surgeries to test for any infections that may have been introduced. They did not do this in China. However, they did in America. My recent blood test shows high levels of C-Reactive Protein (CRP). According to WebMD:
"High levels of CRP are caused by infections and many long-term diseases. A C-reactive protein (CRP) test is done to:
Check for infection after surgery. CRP levels normally rise within 2 to 6 hours of surgery and then go down by the third day after surgery. If CRP levels stay elevated 3 days after surgery, an infection may be present."
Thank you, Dr. Ma.
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Thanks for updating us on the current state of LL in China. I changed the title of Fear and Lengthening to reflect that Dr. Peng was the doctor who performed surgery on me and monitored my progress. I don't want people to get the idea that their LL experience will be like mine if they go to the Beijing Institute of External Fixation now.
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Wow so China is now definitely a no go...
Thanks mister
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So you mean Dr Xia isnt doing any LL operation anymore? is this Beijing institute is shut down? NO LL hospitals in china?
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Dr. Xia hasn't done operations in a long time. Even when I was there in 2007 he wasn't doing the operations himself. Dr. Peng was my surgeon.
The Beijing Institute of External Fixation is still in operation with Dr. Xia as the figurehead and Dr. Ma as the surgeon.
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Actually, Dr. Xia is still doing surgeries. This may be because it's only him and Dr. Ma now.
Firstly, all patients who opted for epidural anesthesia (just the legs) saw Dr. Xia working on one leg while Dr. Ma did the other. Secondly, no surgeries were performed while Dr. Xia was out-of-town. There was a period of about 2 weeks where domestic patients were staying in the hospital, waiting for his return for their surgery. Oftentimes, no one had any idea when he was coming back so the domestic patients were left in limbo, paying for each night's stay in the hospital but never sure when they would have their surgery. Incredibly unprofessional and inconsiderate.
Also, I don't think it's pertinent to be concerned about whether Dr. Xia is still doing surgeries. I doubt it's wise to let a 70+ year old man operate on someone. Think Charles Barkley or Arnold Schwarzenegger or any top academic researcher -- among the best in their fields, but they peak before declining. Skill and ability is not a monotonically increasing function (for the math illiterate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotonic_function).
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This is what Dr. Li is telling prospective patients now if they ask about the Dr. Xia / Dr. Ma / mistermystery82 incident:
Thanks for your e-mail and your concerns. Recently there are soem changes in the hospital arrangements, in that we have relocated to a new and better hopsital. Dr. Xia will not operate in person (as he is over 70 years and a bit slow). Instead, Dr. Peng will be the chief surgeon in charge the LL surgery. He has worked with Dr. Xia for more than 20 years and is very experienced. In fact, her performed 90% of the LL cases in Dr. Xia's hospital over the last 5 years. If you still want to come to China for LL surgeru, then Dr. peng is the best choice.
If you're thinking about going to Beijing for LL, I recommend going first and making sure that you meet Dr. Peng. Here's what he looks like. If you don't see him, RUN! ;)
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This is what Dr. Li is telling prospective patients now if they ask about the Dr. Xia / Dr. Ma / mistermystery82 incident:
If you're thinking about going to Beijing for LL, I recommend going first and making sure that you meet Dr. Peng. Here's what he looks like. If you don't see him, RUN! ;)
seriously u shouldnt feel responsable for every Beijing patients, u did it in 2007 its not like u represent them
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@hallija --- why not mate? why not? after all what is the purpose of this forum? MDOW is just living up to the meaning of this forum that is to help the future LLers , i think he is doing a great noble work and i salute him for that...god bless u MDOW!
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Dang looks like I dodged a bullet. At first I was considering here, though I probably would never have proceeded if Xia wasn't operating anyways.
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Yeah, it seems that you did programdude. Dr. Peng is the competent LL doctor in China, and if you'd gone while he wasn't there you could've ended up with a bad result. If he's really back as Dr. Li is telling people, then it should be okay to go there again.
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Hope more people edit their diaries like you. There seems to be a lot of confusion about china- between changing prices and surgeons.
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Who is Dr. Li? Neither he nor Dr. Peng are presently associated with the new hospital, Yanda International Hospital/Dr. Xia. If you're talking about Dr. Gang Li, he's in England and hasn't been associated with Dr. Xia's operation at Yanda.
As of now, the only doctor associated with Dr. Xia's original LL business is Dr. Ma. Dr. Xia is rarely around; he visits maybe once or twice a month. Dr. Ma is around 5 days a week, but only intermittently visits his patients. Some periods he visits every day he's on duty, other periods he goes unseen for a week yet is definitely in his office at the hospital. He's usually playing on his phone.
There are a lot of other doctors sharing the same space, but they have no experience or expertise with LL. They are responsible for the few domestic patients who are admitted with other ailments.
Also, it's important to understand Wang Bei's motivations. She function is as a broker and she gets a commission for bringing in international patients. After you've paid, you're lucky if you see her once or twice a month. Yanda Hospital is far from the old hospital and she hates the commute (~2hrs, one way, with typical traffic. 45minutes, otherwise) , which she uses as an excuse to avoid visiting her international clients.
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Yes, Gang Li aka Roger Li. He's the one who answers the emails that get sent to info@leg-lengthening.com and is telling prospective patients that Dr. Peng is back now.
When were you last there?
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Like I said:
"Who is Dr. Li? Neither he nor Dr. Peng are presently associated with the new hospital, Yanda International Hospital/Dr. Xia. If you're talking about Dr. Gang Li, he's in England and hasn't been associated with Dr. Xia's operation at Yanda."
Gang/Roger Li has no idea what's going on and he's *probably* blatantly lying. I say probably, because I'm not current with the present situation and can't say for certain.
I can say that Dr. Peng was never at Yanda. I can also say he probably won't ever be. Dr. Ma is the only one of Dr. Xia's fomer protegés associated with Yanda. Dr. Xia just visits on a "consultant" basis. Dr. Ma and others said Dr. Peng is practicing more traditional orthopedic surgery elsewhere. Additionally, Dr. Ma runs the show at Yanda despite having his own boss there (the "Director"). He is looked up to by all of the other doctors at Yanda, simply because of his importance in bringing patients to the hospital. He is responsible for more than 99% of the ortho unit's revenue, and realistically, 100% (each domestic patient for LL pays $15-20k USD. Domestic patients for other surgeries pay ~$150-300, all-in). It just seems unlikely for Dr. Ma to want to bring in a more senior surgeon for him to defer to and thereby diminish his own importance to his operation at Yanda. It would be like a CEO of a company, hiring another CEO to be his boss. It doesn't make much sense from Dr. Ma's position.
It's important to remember that Dr. Ma and Guang Ji had an acrimonious split several years ago. This drove Dr. Ma to seek employment elsewhere, namely at Yanda. Following the Chinese Health Ministry's closure of Guang Ji, Dr. Xia has been forced to seek other venues for his practices. Somehow, Dr. Xia managed to negotiate something shady with Dr. Ma. In fact, Dr. Xia's nephew now has his own wing (empty) of the hospital on the second floor. This nephew has no medical training, yet he freely dons a doctor's white coat, visits the patients to give advice and has office space where a doctor normally would. This is purely a business venture and one that has focused on maximizing the amount your lump sum payment that is pocketed while providing the cheapest services possible to minimize cost of goods sold.
Update on my leg: it has a deep-tissue infection introduced during Dr. Ma's nail insertion. The infection is limb-threatening (amputation is possible) and life-threatening. I am off antibiotics so they can take bacterial cultures and I will have to have the hardware removed this month. The doctors here are still amazed that they managed to go 3 for 3 screws missing the rod in one leg, while introducing infection on the other.
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Okay everyone, the latest I know is this:
Dr. Li got really mad when he heard about what happened to mistermystery82 and some others under the care of Dr. Ma at Yandan Hospital. This caused him to seek out a new/different successor for Professor Xia. An old colleague from Guang Ji Hospital: Dr. Aimin Peng.
Dr. Peng is not really "back." He has never worked at Yandan hospital and he never will. He's practicing medicine at China Rehabilitation Hospital in Beijing, and interested patients are being sent to him by Dr. Li if you contact info@leg-lengthening.com (Dr. Li's email).
Does the Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology still even exist? This I don't know at the moment, but Dr. Peng has been given his own entry in the doctors directory here to reflect the fact that The Beijing Institute is sending their new patients to him at China Rehabilitation Hospital.
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Update: The Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology's website has been updated to reflect that Dr. Aiming Peng is the official successor to Professor Xia.
http://leg-lengthening.com/
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Update: The Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology's website has been updated to reflect that Dr. Aiming Peng is the official successor to Professor Xia.
http://leg-lengthening.com/
So would doing 5cm there be a bad idea or no? Seemed like a nice place now I am so confused :/..
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5cm is on the safe side for Dr. Peng. I did 7.5 with him and many people went to 10 or even beyond.
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I got an email form them: now they charge you 45k!!!!, is a non go.
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Hello Liam
Did you ever get an answer to your question?
Did some one send you another email address, because I don't get any response from the email on that site also.
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50k USD now, what the hell!
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Lol for external, might as well go to the South African doc or mongeal.
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Lol for external, might as well go to the South African doc or mongeal.
Was a good place,now is ridiculously expensive, for people like me there even less options than before.
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Was a good place,now is ridiculously expensive, for people like me there even less options than before.
From the moment you can do externals with respectable doctors like Catagni in western countries or at least not third world countries for not crazy amounts of money, doctors from China are not an option for any sensible future LL.
Moreover when they have prices like these, they are a joke.
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I wonder if there people Who agree to waste their money, when they can get more affordable prices with good doctors.
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Hello everyone，
I’m a Chinese man who consider to do LL in future. Please forgive me for some grammar mistakes.
I saw some people think to do LL in Dr.Xia’s hospital, unfortunately I have some bad for you guys.
Dr.Xia this man，actually he is not a “doctor”. He has not any college or university degree, and he actually has no right to work as a doctor in china，even work as a traditional Chinese doctor. I cannot find his name on National Health Commission of the People’s Republic of China（this agent is collect all the doctor's name and occupation of China，If there has no date for some doctor like Dr.xia，It's illegal to work as a doctor）
I also know so many Chinese people was failed form the surgery of Dr.xia，perhaps the famous one is“fenhongbaobao”-the beautiful lady who had accpected this surgery form Xia，and she had used wheelchair for 2 years.
I really don not want things like this appear more， And I plan do LL in America or Europe. ;)
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Hello everyone，
I’m a Chinese man who consider to do LL in future. Please forgive me for some grammar mistakes.
I saw some people think to do LL in Dr.Xia’s hospital, unfortunately I have some bad for you guys.
Dr.Xia this man，actually he is not a “doctor”. He has not any college or university degree, and he actually has no right to work as a doctor in china，even work as a traditional Chinese doctor. I cannot find his name on National Health Commission of the People’s Republic of China（this agent is collect all the doctor's name and occupation of China，If there has no date for some doctor like Dr.xia，It's illegal to work as a doctor）
I also know so many Chinese people was failed form the surgery of Dr.xia，perhaps the famous one is“fenhongbaobao”-the beautiful lady who had accpected this surgery form Xia，and she had used wheelchair for 2 years.
I really don not want things like this appear more， And I plan do LL in America or Europe. ;)
Thank you for the information, YESHUAIGE.
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Also, it's really sad to hear about such a tragic case like that - just that we didn't know about. Even worse, it involved a woman again. Other than the LLer many here assume to be dead, weren't the rest of all of our most tragic CLL cases with women patients?
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Hello myloginacct，
I‘m so happy for you reply me！And I’m sorry for let you to heard a terrible thing like this.
But I think everyone who want to do LL should know that.
Maybe Dr. Mahboubian is a nice choice :)
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im chinese，I dont sure dr.xia Technology，but fenhongbaobao is failed by baihonglong，u can search her Sina-Weibo
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Hello everyone! :)
I contacted http://www.leg-lengthening.com/ asking about Dr. Aimin Peng personally but I got a reply saying that it is actually Dr. Xia who does the operation.
Anyways, here is the message:
"yes, you are eligible for LL surgery if that is what you really want !
A great news, for a limited time from 1 September 2018 to 31 May 2019, the package price is adjusted to USD30,000 for 1 to 8 cm lengthening. We require a deposit of USD 5,000 to be paid first to secure a place and a surgery with Dr Xia He-Tao in Kunming Orthopaedic Hospital.
In regard to the lengthening surgery, we usually lengthen the tibiae for cosmetic purposes, as most of people with short stature have relatively short tibiae, and the lengthening of tibiae will make them look more even. The surgery on tibiae is also relatively easy and risk free comparing to femurs (as there are a lot of muscles around it and special cares are needed to keep the patients comfortable during the lengthening). In most of cases, 8-10 (3-4 inches) cm tibial lengthening is sufficient to satisfy the needs.
The time for hospitalization would be around 3-4 months for 5-8 cm lengthening depending on your body's recovery ability. The new method of osteotomy has eliminated potential risk of non-union or poor bone formation, we have performed more than 100 cases, all are successful. After the planned lengthening (e.g. 8 cm) is achieved, the external fixator will be removed and at the same time your leg will be fixed by the internal fixator (intramedullary nail) through locking screws. A few weeks after the second surgery, you can return to work and be discharged from the hospital. At early stage of the first surgery and during the lengthening, you will need working aid to walk, but once the lengthening is finished and external fixator removed, then you can work free, but you don’t do competitive sport for the next 12 months to allow bone to fully recover. You can go back to normal life with the internal nails for approx. 1 year, and then you may remove the nails (this is a simple procedure and you only need to stay in hospital for around 10 days after the nails being taken out). Added together, the total time needed for completion of the entire treatment would be around 12-16 months, but you can go back to work or normal life after 4-6 months, and resume full sport activities after 24 months.
There will be some scars along the pin tracts, which can be removed after the procedure if necessary by cosmetic surgery. We could do so at a cost of about USD2,500 for removing all the major scars at the time of removing the intramedullary nails on both legs. As far as the long term side effect is concerned, we did not predict any if the procedure is done correctly, as this is just like a fracture repair by tissue regeneration, we create a situation that stimulates your own growth potentials which has ceased early, so that we consider the LL procedure is a natural process, hence with less harmful consequences anticipated.
The cost of our service package is USD 30,000 includes a (up to) 1-8 cm lengthening on both tibiae or femurs, the costs include two surgeries (the first surgery to put external frame and nails and 2nd surgery for removing the external frame), 3-weeks hospital stay for the first surgery and 2 weeks hospital stay for the 2 nd surgery. The patient has to pay extra for staying in the hospital in between the two surgeries and the meals are at their own costs (the total additional costs shall be less than USD3,000, we have reduce the package cost of to USD30,000 from the original USD40,000 to give the patient choice to pay themselves for staying in hospital or local hotel)．If any complication occurs during the procedure while you are in our hospital, we guarantee to treat it free of charge till the complication is completely settled.
How to pay:
The package price (e.g. USD30,000 ) needs to be paid in two installments. First you need to pay a deposit of USD5,000 (non-refundable once paid this) to secure a place; then at your arrival in Kunming, you need to pay the rest of USD25,000 at the time of admission. Payment can be done in cash or bank transfer. No credit card payment or personal check is accepted at present. We can send you our bank details for you to set up a bank transfer arrangement with your home banks and you can transfer the fund once you are in Kunming, just before the surgery.
Our surgery team is headed and performed in person by Dr. Xia He-Tao, who is a very experienced orthopaedic surgeon specialized in leg lengthening cosmetic surgery, has carried out more than 1,000 cosmetic leg lengthening procedure with great success. We will explain everything clearly to patients, and we will sign an agreement with patient to clearly outline the responsibilities and risks of each party.
Summary of our clinical experience
Till now, we have performed leg lengthening surgery for more than 2,000 plus cases. Patients were from USA, Italy, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and all over China. Most of the patients are suffers of short stature and 80% of the patients have postgraduate degrees, aged between 14-52 years, (average age: 22.6 years). The height before surgery was between 117-175 cm (average 152 cm); the average increased height was 8.6 cm (3-33 cm). Among the patients, there are three cases of serious complications, bone nonunion 2 cases (1 case was caused by fast lengthening rate; another was due to diet problem, lack of nutrition), ankle joint deformity 1 case (the patient was 52 years old and has other medical conditions). All the three cases were treated by secondary surgery with satisfactory outcomes. Overall, 99% of the patients were very satisfied with the outcome of their treatment. At present, serious complications such as bone nonunion have been completely avoided by using Xia's leg-lengthening technique, only minor complications such as mild pinhole infection (in less than 0.5% patients) are occasionally seen and are dealt with easily.
It is not necessary to have a pre-surgery consultation and checks, as we can do this one go before the surgery when you are here in our hospital. Please check if you meet the conditions for cosmetic leg lengthening on our website: http://www.leg-lengthening.com/advice.html and if you are, then you can decide a time and book your flight and let me know in 2-3 weeks advance, then we can arrange your hospitalization and treatment accordingly, we can also assist with your visa application and arrange your airport pickup (these are all included in the price of the package). Of course, you can visit our hospital in Kunming first, to see in your own eyes and then decide from there. Please let me know if you need more information.
For Chinese visa, please go to nearest Chinese embassy to apply for a tourist visa, and it is easy to get and you can stay for up to 3 months. Once you are in China, we can help to extend the visa for you if needed. Once you got the visa and booked the flight, please let me know so that we can arrange airport pickup, your hospital stay and surgery time accordingly.
Many interesting patients would always request to have one to one telephone consultation or speak to our in-patient. Although we understand your feeling and concern, but it is not possible for us to give telephone consultation due to medical legal reason, and we have signed contract with every single patient that we are not in a position to dishcloth patient’s private information, let alone to allow strangers to talk to our patients. We have tried our best to address the frequently asked questions and these can be found at our website under FAQs and Answers at: http://www.leg-lengthening.com/faq.html
If you are still unsure and want to have a private visit prior to making up your mind, then you are welcome to visit our hospital for a one to one consultation with Dr. Xia and see the hospital facilities, and you may have a chance to talk to the patients in our hospital there. For such visit, the cost is USD1,000 including consultation with Dr. Xia Hetiao and guided hospital tour. If you have decided to come to our hospital for a surgery within 3 months of the consultation, then the fee is refunded from the total package cost.
Don't hesitate to get in touch with me if you need further clarification.
All the best wishes
Dr. Roger Li, MD, PhD
Senior Consultant
Beijing Institute of External Fixation Technology
Kunming Orthopaedic Hospital
www.leg-lengthening.com "
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As Chinese, please don't find Dr.Xia, he is a bad doctor.
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:( I've been reading about him. Would you consider someone in China in particular?
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1529586/Why-little-Miss-Li-paid-a-man-1600-to-break-her-legs.html
I wouldn't trust that man to keep a dollar, let alone my legs.
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Omg! This is so sad. :(
Thanks for sharing the article, Epikness!
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Why the hell someone would like to go to this mess? 100% guarantee you will end up cripple.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1529586/Why-little-Miss-Li-paid-a-man-1600-to-break-her-legs.html
I wouldn't trust that man to keep a dollar, let alone my legs.
That wasn't Dr. Xia. Read the article again if you can get past that awful paywall. The only reason he is mentioned in this article is that Little Miss Li went to him for treatment after-the-fact.
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F**k that paywall
https://archive.ph/M9Do6
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Dr Xia was always spoken of very highly in all the old forum diaries, what has changed exactly?
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Dr Xia was always spoken of very highly in all the old forum diaries, what has changed exactly?
Several reasons, probably.
LL is now illegal in China but he does it anyway, after moving out of the capital and to a second-tier city. He might not have access to good facilities or equipment anymore.
He may be getting too old to do the surgery properly. Even when I was there he was an old figurehead who either just oversaw or wasn't even in the OR at all. Drs. Li, Peng, or Ma did all the work.
Very few people go to him anymore, so even one negative comment might be the only one posted about him over a long period of time.
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Several reasons, probably.
LL is now illegal in China but he does it anyway, after moving out of the capital and to a second-tier city. He might not have access to good facilities or equipment anymore.
He may be getting too old to do the surgery properly. Even when I was there he was an old figurehead who either just oversaw or wasn't even in the OR at all. Drs. Li, Peng, or Ma did all the work.
Very few people go to him anymore, so even one negative comment might be the only one posted about him over a long period of time.
Woah why is LL banned in china? It‘s not like lobotomy lol.
How old is this Dr now?
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Dr. Xia is so old now; probably in his mid-80s. I can't imagine he's even operating anymore. It's probably an usderstudy doiing the actual work under his supervision.
I think it was banned for two reasons: one, lots of unqualified doctors, some who weren't even actual doctors, were crippling people. The clinic treated several botched domestic patients just while I was there, and that was a few years after the government started regulating it more. He was like their Paley. Two: eugenics.
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我是中国人 他做坏多少人我们很清楚 虽然所谓的成功过几个那也只是没出大问题
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夏技术很垃圾 但红粉宝宝是白鹤龙做的