Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: BecomingHuman on August 19, 2020, 09:48:51 PM
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This will be the location of my diary where I'll record my experiences with Dr. Tim O'Carrigan. He studied under the GOAT, Dr. Paley.
Starting age: 28
Starting height: 170cm, aka 5'7".
Targeted height: 5'10.5"
Planned approach: 1.5" lengthening of tibias followed up by 2" lengthening of femurs 2 years later.
Dr. O'Carrigan offers external fixators, the precice nail and the stryde full weight bearing nail. I am aiming to use the stryde nail.
Context:
I am a software engineer, reasonably successful in a very niche area of software development with high job security and steadily increasing salary. I am extremely interested in economics, politics, philosophy and law. I am highly motivated and ambitious. Typical highly motivated short Napoleon type of guy wanting to do great things.
I wrote a very demanding, niche private software project from scratch starting around 17 years of age while attending university. That demanding software project attracted attention to me and I got my first job at 25, starting at AUD 60k/yr. Within 3 years I had got 2 promotions and was earning AUD 80k/yr at that job.
During those same 3 years I also read all of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations from cover to cover, followed by several other books on econ, philosophy, etc and I have decided to move out of software and into politics later on in life, perhaps in my late 30s - all while also improving my dayjob skills and also undertaking new private projects.
At my current job I earn low 6 figures in AUD at a company in the top 5 of the Forbes list and am well adjusted, confident and able to strike up a conversation easily with anyone and so on.
I started off in a 3rd world country, and worked hard and continue to work hard to improve myself and to be able to move into politics so I can go back to the 3rd world and fix my own country's politics and break the cycle of dysfunctional politics.
Reasons for undergoing LL:
I don't have problems with my height. Other people have problems with my height. Unfortunately, people don't take short politicians seriously, and I don't have the time to let all of this reading and studying and planning that I've done, go down the drain.
I am tired of the 3rd world being left behind because of incompetent politicians. It is about time that corruption and religious nonsense get expunged from 3rd world politics so people in the 3rd world can live modern lives and have freedom and prosperity.
My relationship status:
I am single and intend to remain single for a very long time since I don't have the time to accomodate another person in my life. A lot of people want LL to get girls or something. I'm not interested in that: I want LL for respect, so that other people can get past my height and look at my achievements and take me seriously.
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Preparations for LL:
I currently have this list of items I think I'll need:
- Wheelchair, approx 350 AUD.
- Calcium supplements and multivitamins
- painkillers
- bedside lamp, Approx 100 AUD
I plan to hire a helper to buy groceries and clean my studio apartment and so on. Overall, I plan to just use this COVID-19 pandemic situation as an excuse to stay home and recover from my surgery.
Ideally I won't even have to tell my employer that I broke my legs or anything because I would just not see him for at least 2 months. Then, I'll just gradually increase in height by 1.5 inches under everyone's noses and well, that's the plan.
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The initial consultation day:
Preparations and lead-up:
Yesterday I went to get a GP referral to see Dr. O'Carrigan because the instructions (sent over email before the scheduled initial consultation day) say to have a GP rreferral.The GP immediately recognized O'Carrigan's name and said he had studied leg surgery for fractured limbs, etc. under him in medical school and that he is a very competent surgeon. Also, he told me an anecdote about him having been driven somewhere by Dr. O'Carrigan and having seen him stop the car and carefully pick a lizard of some sort out of the way before proceeding, and said that he is a very compassionate man. Curious.
Today is the day of the initial consultation. I'll edit this post with more details when its done. The instructions say that it will be a long day and that you should come in comfortable clothes with some shorts as you'll be asked to disrobe.
Further, you are likely to be asked to do checkups with a psychologist and a "Pain Specialist", and the pain specialist is apparently very well decorated so ideally this means your pain will be well estimated and managed.
9:45am:
I arrived on Macquarie University campus and went into the Limb Reconstruction center. My appointment was for 9:50am. I filled out forms and then was asked to go to the imaging clinic to get xrays done.
10:15am: sitting in the imaging clinic waiting to be xrayed.
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exciting! i didnt know of any aus docs offering cll
how much is he charging for stryde?
cheers
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@wannabeidol I don't want to advertise prices for the good doctor; but if you email him, you can ask him for a price range. I expect to get an exact quote today.
He gave me a minimum price which was very reasonable and very affordable (still in the tens of thousands). He was reluctant to give such a quote, and I caj understand why since the actual price quote for each patient will be different because different treatment regimens may be required.
I would encourage you to contact him directly and ask for a price range (don't ask for a quote. You'll be given a quote on your initial consultation day.)
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Very cool. I’m an Aussie. Good luck.
Are you planning stryde for both? Would’ve have thought you’d be nearing the $200k aussie if so.
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@m7liam: Yup. From what I can tell, the difference in quality of experience and time to heal, between the Precice and Stryde nails is very significant. Apparently after 1.5-2 months you can be mostly walking around with the stryde nail based on the diary of this guy here (http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=9671.155), whereas it would take much longer with the precice nail.
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So you plan to be a politician around age 31?
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@ghkid2019: I'm aiming for my late 30s, early 40s. I have some political projects I want to finish up first, and the most important of them will take about 2 years before it's ready for release in a form that's politically viable.
If everything goes smoothly, I can probably start transitioning into politics full-time by 35. I'm allowing slack time though, so I don't think I'll be in it full-time until 40.
I'll be involved in it part time by mid-way next year.
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I did not know Australian surgeons performed CLL. This is cool!
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Yep. I chose to do Styrde femurs in greece. Have been walking unassisted since the end of week 3
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Can you please confirm if O'Carrigan is in fact conducting CLL?
His website suggests the treatment is for deformity and trauma only.
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@wannabeidol I don't want to advertise prices for the good doctor; but if you email him, you can ask him for a price range. I expect to get an exact quote today.
He gave me a minimum price which was very reasonable and very affordable (still in the tens of thousands). He was reluctant to give such a quote, and I caj understand why since the actual price quote for each patient will be different because different treatment regimens may be required.
I would encourage you to contact him directly and ask for a price range (don't ask for a quote. You'll be given a quote on your initial consultation day.)
I want to clarify something: during my consult they explained that the price to do it out of pocket is approximately 140k, but that for patients who can get Medicare approval, the out of pocket expenses are about 20k.
Getting Medicare approval usually requires being pretty below average height plus being able to demonstrate that it has amln adverse effect on your life, including reasonably serious mental issues.
I guess my journey ends here; I don't think 140k is worth it to me.
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@ton9031: Yes he has no problem with doing cosmetic lengthening.
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Thanks for the reply.
$140k is steep. Is it not going to Greece or the U.S. a more affordable solution?
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Jus do one procedure femurs stryde and get 176cm, quality height no need to do tibs 5'10 in shoes. Will cost 70kish done move on with your life. The tibs are more dangerous plus! you cold even do 178cm femur but not recommended too much in one seg etc. It's a big enough procedure as it is doing one set.
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I want to clarify something: during my consult they explained that the price to do it out of pocket is approximately 140k, but that for patients who can get Medicare approval, the out of pocket expenses are about 20k.
Getting Medicare approval usually requires being pretty below average height plus being able to demonstrate that it has amln adverse effect on your life, including reasonably serious mental issues.
I guess my journey ends here; I don't think 140k is worth it to me.
damn 20k would be amazing
unfortunately im an international so im with allianz andi think think theyll cover it
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This is why you shouldn't make a "diary" in the Patient Experiences subforumso early before you even have the money or actual desire to do this. You literally assumed at 5' 7 you would get medicare to cover 120k worth of operations? You're not a dwarf bro.
This thread should be deleted, I'm cringing hard at the lack of common sense
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Jus do one procedure femurs stryde and get 176cm, quality height no need to do tibs 5'10 in shoes. Will cost 70kish done move on with your life. The tibs are more dangerous plus! you cold even do 178cm femur but not recommended too much in one seg etc. It's a big enough procedure as it is doing one set.
I assume he meant $140,000 for femurs only. If he did both he'd be looking at $280,000.
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I too am curious about the pricing. Is it 140k per segment. i.e. 140k femurs, 140k tibias?
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I too am curious about the pricing. Is it 140k per segment. i.e. 140k femurs, 140k tibias?
I saw OP on here yesterday but as he didn't reply to questions I'll tell you why I believe it's $140,000. At $70,000 aud it would put O'Carrigan as one of the least expensive stryde surgeons in the world in a country with one of the better medical systems. Highly unlikely OP would have declined at that price.
That pricing of $140,000 puts him at more expensive than Dr Paley based on exchange rates as of today.
The high price is in all likelihood intended to dissuade CLL patients as Australian doctors appear incredibly reluctant to perform CLL.
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I spoke to his nurse that organises things for Dr Tim, it's about $100,000 but if you have private health insurance you are paying about $50,000.
She reccommend that you go hcf private health insurance.
If you are under 175cm you may get approved for the surgery where they cover about $40-50,000.
I enquired just put of not interest, In case I want to go back and do another 4cms.
And they use precise.
I said to her so if it's about $100,000 would I be paying about 60 -70k and she replied.....Much less.
So I assume you are paying around $50,000 with private health insurance.....But bare in mind this is only for Australians.
So if you are Australian I would get private health insurance now and then attempt to get the approval later on.
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I spoke to his nurse that organises things for Dr Tim, it's about $100,000 but if you have private health insurance you are paying about $50,000.
She reccommend that you go hcf private health insurance.
If you are under 175cm you may get approved for the surgery where they cover about $40-50,000.
I enquired just put of not interest, In case I want to go back and do another 4cms.
And they use precise.
I said to her so if it's about $100,000 would I be paying about 60 -70k and she replied.....Much less.
So I assume you are paying around $50,000 with private health insurance.....But bare in mind this is only for Australians.
So if you are Australian I would get private health insurance now and then attempt to get the approval later on.
The cost is for precice or stryde?
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I spoke to his nurse that organises things for Dr Tim, it's about $100,000 but if you have private health insurance you are paying about $50,000.
She reccommend that you go hcf private health insurance.
If you are under 175cm you may get approved for the surgery where they cover about $40-50,000.
I enquired just put of not interest, In case I want to go back and do another 4cms.
And they use precise.
I said to her so if it's about $100,000 would I be paying about 60 -70k and she replied.....Much less.
So I assume you are paying around $50,000 with private health insurance.....But bare in mind this is only for Australians.
So if you are Australian I would get private health insurance now and then attempt to get the approval later on.
Hey 4cm,
I DMed you but should probably put it in this thread as well to keep the info public. I have spoken to a couple of people who have had consults with Dr O'Carrigan and including becominghuman the range went from $120,000 to $140,000 without insurance for Stryde on one segment. That the nurse told you $100,000 is concerning that there minimal consistency in their pricing and the secretiveness of LL surgeons in Australia regarding this rubs me the wrong way, how do we know we're not paying way more than the next guy. How can so many other surgeons who perform this surgery give standard pricing but not Australian surgeons?
About the nurse saying if your under 175cm you MAY get approval, this leads me to believe that you personally arrange to get your private health fund to cover you? I understand she is covering all her bases with her "MAY get approval" but if becominghuman was going to be up for $140,000 unless he got medicare coverage and he is 170cm it seems highly unlikely your private health insurance would cover you. The theme that's coming across is that before you pay for your consult and additional tests you are told best case scenario pricing then once you finished paying for your consult and tests they hit you with the actual costs.
I don't even know what you would put your claim in for and how you would go about it as no fund covers cosmetic surgery? If you have much experience with Australian private health insurance you'll know there is no way they will pay $40-50,000 for a 170cm guy for example to get cosmetic limb lengthening.
I will also add that these people were told that he has a max limit of 5cm on both femurs and tibias so if doing femurs you would have to be content with stopping at 5cm.
If anyone else has any experience I'd be curious to hear.
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That's her email noelle@limbreconstructionpatientsupport.com, You might want to shoot her a message.
This is her phone number Ph: 0448882810, Its Sunday so I would call her tomorrow.
Probably better for you to call or message her.
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Yeah, you're not gonna get insurance to cover this unless your a literal dwarf. Not even if you're 165cm
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From what I understand it comes under the mental health side.
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Hey 4cm,
I DMed you but should probably put it in this thread as well to keep the info public. I have spoken to a couple of people who have had consults with Dr O'Carrigan and including becominghuman the range went from $120,000 to $140,000 without insurance for Stryde on one segment. That the nurse told you $100,000 is concerning that there minimal consistency in their pricing and the secretiveness of LL surgeons in Australia regarding this rubs me the wrong way, how do we know we're not paying way more than the next guy. How can so many other surgeons who perform this surgery give standard pricing but not Australian surgeons?
About the nurse saying if your under 175cm you MAY get approval, this leads me to believe that you personally arrange to get your private health fund to cover you? I understand she is covering all her bases with her "MAY get approval" but if becominghuman was going to be up for $140,000 unless he got medicare coverage and he is 170cm it seems highly unlikely your private health insurance would cover you. The theme that's coming across is that before you pay for your consult and additional tests you are told best case scenario pricing then once you finished paying for your consult and tests they hit you with the actual costs.
I don't even know what you would put your claim in for and how you would go about it as no fund covers cosmetic surgery? If you have much experience with Australian private health insurance you'll know there is no way they will pay $40-50,000 for a 170cm guy for example to get cosmetic limb lengthening.
I will also add that these people were told that he has a max limit of 5cm on both femurs and tibias so if doing femurs you would have to be content with stopping at 5cm.
If anyone else has any experience I'd be curious to hear.
From what she said it would come under the mental health side, Also you get private health insurance. If they don't approve it then just cancel the insurance and go elsewhere.
It's not guaranteed to be covered but I doubt the nurse would reccommend it if there wasn't a chance.
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From what she said it would come under the mental health side, Also you get private health insurance. If they don't approve it then just cancel the insurance and go elsewhere.
It's not guaranteed to be covered but I doubt the nurse would reccommend it if there wasn't a chance.
Becominghuman said for coverage on medicare that you would have "demonstrate that it has amln adverse effect on your life, including reasonably serious mental issues". As he was 170cm I'm imagining you have to be pretty damn short to have a chance at coverage. If medicare won't cover then with private health you'd have no chance unless you are probably 160cm and under.
To confirm when you said "Also you get private health insurance. If they don't approve it then just cancel the insurance and go elsewhere". You mean go for a consult with O'Carrigan then see if private health will cover you if they won't then cancel and go to say Europe or USA? But to do this don't you have to hold private health insurance for minimum of 12 months in Australia for pre-existing conditions?
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Yea no way you can game insurance like that and switch around. Every thing has systems to prevent abuse like this. Anyways no insurance is gonna cover this for a 170cm man, literally will not ever. This surgery is meant for acondroplasia people not normal people who happen to be short, especially at 170cm
They will cover mental health therapy tho. Much cheaper for them anyways. Fix the significant distress via a therapist or medication, costs em a few grand for the whole thang versus 100k for da surgery
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I don't care either way, I'm just relaying what his nurse told me.
I called them out of interest because I enquired with the 2 years ago and they weren't doing it at the time.
Do whatever you like with the info I obtained.
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Becominghuman said for coverage on medicare that you would have "demonstrate that it has amln adverse effect on your life, including reasonably serious mental issues". As he was 170cm I'm imagining you have to be pretty damn short to have a chance at coverage. If medicare won't cover then with private health you'd have no chance unless you are probably 160cm and under.
To confirm when you said "Also you get private health insurance. If they don't approve it then just cancel the insurance and go elsewhere". You mean go for a consult with O'Carrigan then see if private health will cover you if they won't then cancel and go to say Europe or USA? But to do this don't you have to hold private health insurance for minimum of 12 months in Australia for pre-existing conditions?
Personally me if I knew there was a chance, I would of held the private health insurance and used it's benefits for 12 months in case there was a chance I could get them to cover 40% or so and stay in Australia to do LL.
But that's me.
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No problem, not saying you care either, just saying that it's a lie what they said about under 175 and shiet and to not get random people's hopes up and Mr. 170cm OP useless diary thot he cud get insurance cover XD
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Personally me if I knew there was a chance, I would of held the private health insurance and used it's benefits for 12 months in case there was a chance I could get them to cover 40% or so and stay in Australia to do LL.
But that's me.
That's what I thought you meant but wanted to confirm. It's the most logical thing to do to hold it for the 12 months then if it's not covered drop the insurance.
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No problem, not saying you care either, just saying that it's a lie what they said about under 175 and shiet and to not get random people's hopes up and Mr. 170cm OP useless diary thot he cud get insurance cover XD
Yea the main issue with this surgeon is total lack of clarity on pricing. Just straight up telling ALL future patients before a consult "It will cost X amount for stryde femurs and X amount for stryde tibias with no insurance" would be a start.
Then the nurse telling patients "maybe $50,000 off if under 175cm" comes across as adding another layer of deceitfulness. Once again clarity is required. A specific "people who are under this height are able to get insurance coverage" would be the way to go. I imagine it's not intended but it comes across that way. Even if the price is high at $140,000 that is OK, some people can afford that but at least letting people know ahead of time rather than waste their time to come in for consults and tests before telling them the real cost would be far better for potential patients and surgeon. Last thing you want to think about with this surgery is if your surgeon may be ripping you off while the patient in the next room got a far better price.
Clear pricing that is the same for every patient. Like other CLL surgeons do would go a long way to helping this surgeon.
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Agree 100%. I think a big part of it is day Carrigwn doesn't wanna do CLL for normal people anyways. No priority, indifferent to it. The surgeon doesn't give a f f f
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I spoke to his nurse that organises things for Dr Tim, it's about $100,000 but if you have private health insurance you are paying about $50,000.
She reccommend that you go hcf private health insurance.
If you are under 175cm you may get approved for the surgery where they cover about $40-50,000.
I enquired just put of not interest, In case I want to go back and do another 4cms.
And they use precise.
I said to her so if it's about $100,000 would I be paying about 60 -70k and she replied.....Much less.
So I assume you are paying around $50,000 with private health insurance.....But bare in mind this is only for Australians.
So if you are Australian I would get private health insurance now and then attempt to get the approval later on.
Is this for real? I'm Aussie so I would be interested in this!
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Yea but you 'll need the top cover private health insurance and you 'll need to hold that for 12 months before claiming for the surgery.
The Top cover private health insurance is expensive it's between $60 to $100 a fortnight so really you'll be paying the private health insurance not knowing for sure that you 'll get approved after 12 months.
Otherwise you will have to prove you developed the mental set backs and your life was severely affected by your height after you got the insurance which won't fly.
In summary you 'll need private health insurance for 12 months prior.
Or you 'll need 100k without health insurance.
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reviving this thread
100k aud is about 72k usd which is in the ball park of Dr M and Lee
good option if your stuck and esp if you live in the area
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reviving this thread
100k aud is about 72k usd which is in the ball park of Dr M and Lee
good option if your stuck and esp if you live in the area
That is what I was thinking.
Additionally, no plane tickets, no paying for accomodation somewhere else, you could still WFH without leaving Sydney.
Sadly I don't have that money but that is the figure I am going to save regardless of where I get the surgery.
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reviving this thread
100k aud is about 72k usd which is in the ball park of Dr M and Lee
good option if your stuck and esp if you live in the area
Is this for femur + tibia? just tibia? just femur?
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If one of you guys go in for the consult post the actual cost on here since everyone else on this thread is just guessing LOL.
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i belive it is persegment
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I've been in for the consult and basically the way they can get insurance to cover it is by getting a letter/confirmation from their psychologist that your height neurosis has negatively affected your life. They have had patients who have held top cover insurance for 12 months and have had insurance cover the majority of the cost as it falls under medically necessary surgery under the psychological exemption.
Without insurance I was quoted around $120k AUD for stryde. I can also confirm that they have a max lengthening limit of 5cm (possibly 6cm) on both the femurs and tibias. Their approach is basically to get insurance to cover so patients can do both segments and do up to 5cm on each.
Any questions feel free to PM me.
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Wow.
Didn't know anybody did it in Australia.
Heartening to see if I plan to do it in a couple of years.
If anyone actually gets it done, would be interested in reading about their experiences.
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Hi RB.
Was that quote for $120k for one or both segments?
Thanks
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Hi RB.
Was that quote for $120k for one or both segments?
Thanks
Hey mate.
The quote was for one segment with stryde.
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I'm sort of curious about what kind of Medical Insurance he recommended, still seems super far fetched.
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you will never get insurance to cover LL unless you have achondroplasia. Even if you are a 5'0 male you still will not get LL for free.
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That was my understanding. Which is why it seems super weird that he's said that he has had other patients claim insurance. That's why I asked I wonder what sort of Health Insurance they are referring to.
I can only imagine they found a Psychiatrist/Psychologist willing to make a pretty risky recommendation for the surgery. In addition I imagine you'd probably need another comorbid, so maybe it was someone with achondroplasia.
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you will never get insurance to cover LL unless you have achondroplasia. Even if you are a 5'0 male you still will not get LL for free.
End Thread.
Additionally this entire thread should be removed. OP never even did LL and stopped replying when people asked him basic questions about the consult.
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End Thread.
Additionally this entire thread should be removed. OP never even did LL and stopped replying when people asked him basic questions about the consult.
Yeah this is an incredibly misleading thread, probably tricked a bunch of people into getting hope that insurance will cover LL and OP seriously thought he was going to get insurance approval at the height of 5'7 😂😂
This will give false hope to alot of poor patients
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I was told this by them also but I am 5 foot 4 which is a lot shorter.
Though with that said, even then I am not very confident in it being true.
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I was told this by them also but I am 5 foot 4 which is a lot shorter.
Though with that said, even then I am not very confident in it being true.
The user RB was exactly your height 5'4 and went with Dr Betz after consulting with O'carrigan. No one except legitimate dwarfs are getting covered by Medicare/insurance for cosmetic limb lengthening. It would be a national medical scandal if taxpayers discovered they were paying for short men to get CLL. It is incredibly unethical that the doctor and his team are saying this.
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That is upsetting that they are doing that if this is the case.
I will let you know how I go!
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I will eat my words. They mislead me. I would go as far to call it a massive scam.
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Hi what do you mean it's a scam? Could you clarify? I was quoted a fixed cost for the lengthening and they said they'd work out Medicare.
What did you find was dodgy about the process? Just want to make sure I'm not getting my hopes up high for nothing...
Thanks!