Limb Lengthening Forum

Community Hangout => Off Topic => Topic started by: accountdeleted on August 29, 2020, 05:17:55 AM

Title: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on August 29, 2020, 05:17:55 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq3YlGaoY24

Quote
The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was an American non-profit advocacy group for adults of short stature. The organization clearly defined "short stature" to be men 170 cm (5'7") or below and women 157.5 cm (5'2") or below in height.[1] The group advocated on behalf of short people and hoped to foster greater acceptance of short people within society. NOSSA was opposed to the prejudice known as heightism. The group defined heightism as, "a prejudiced attitude about human height that often results in discrimination. It is based on the belief that short stature is an inferior trait and therefore undesirable."[2] The organization ran a series of public education programs, sponsored height-related research, acted as a media "watch-dog" group, provided legal assistance for those affected by heightism, hosted online discussion groups, and invited members to gather once a year for an annual convention. NOSSA ended in early 2013 due to lack of support.

HGH controversy
Quote
NOSSA announced its opposition to the use of human growth hormone for short, but otherwise healthy, children. The organization believes being short isn't a problem; the real difficulties lies in the social bias against short people. In part to define the organization's position on the matter, NOSSA representative and author Ellen Frankel LCSW stated, "What we need is education for those who discriminate against short people, not the genetic engineering of the victims of that prejudice."[6] Frankel states, "The growth hormone deficient child suffers from an underlying medical problem that affects the body's health in different ways. The non-growth-hormone-deficient child has no underlying medical problem. They simply present as a variation on the norm with regard to height. The decision to medically intervene on the healthy child's stature is socially based due to height discrimination and prejudice."[7]

CLL
Quote
NOSSA claims to receive hundreds of e-mails each year from people requesting more information on cosmetic leg lengthening. The group actively discourages short statured people from undergoing leg lengthening solely for cosmetic reasons. The group encourages anyone who is seriously considering the surgery to research the procedure and surgeon thoroughly before undergoing the procedure. NOSSA encourages people to accept and love themselves as they are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Organization_of_Short_Statured_Adults
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: ghkid2019 on August 29, 2020, 05:51:51 AM
Just like the dwarfism community opposes CLL and wants to force little people to continue suffering and simply "accept" their height despite ways to change it.

And that HGH mentality... Absolutely ridiculous

Gate keeping beneficial surgeries and medicine. Disgusting

Though As for their message of heightism.. I approve this 👍
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: a on August 29, 2020, 08:35:46 AM
I think we all should collect some money and give it to Bruce Wayne, he really needs the surgery more than anyone including me.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: drxboom on August 29, 2020, 12:30:59 PM
Just like the dwarfism community opposes CLL and wants to force little people to continue suffering and simply "accept" their height despite ways to change it.

And that HGH mentality... Absolutely ridiculous

Gate keeping beneficial surgeries and medicine. Disgusting

Though As for their message of heightism.. I approve this 👍

They say what matters is inner beauty, but they judge people according to physique
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: NotSoBigBadBruin on August 29, 2020, 02:42:22 PM
Just like the dwarfism community opposes CLL and wants to force little people to continue suffering and simply "accept" their height despite ways to change it.

It wouldn’t make sense if they were encouraging people to do CLL, would it? As if BLM supporters were saying, “Skin color shouldn’t matter! But hey, if you’ve got the money, start looking into skin-bleaching products.”
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: IwannaBeTaller on August 29, 2020, 02:46:22 PM
Just like the dwarfism community opposes CLL and wants to force little people to continue suffering and simply "accept" their height despite ways to change it.

And that HGH mentality... Absolutely ridiculous

Gate keeping beneficial surgeries and medicine. Disgusting

Though As for their message of heightism.. I approve this 👍

Is it ridiculous, really? Is it not just logically consistent? Assumin that heightism exists and you think LL is a solution, what would be the end game? Everyone under 5'7'' just getting LL, which would raise the average height and just make those at 5'7'' shorter compared to the average (and many of those getting LL would still be short, only with reduced mobility), effectively just shifting the problem around?

I think we all should collect some money and give it to Bruce Wayne, he really needs the surgery more than anyone including me.

Give him brain surgery too, so he'll irrevocably forget he "slept 0-2 hours" during his puberty. I can't read that sh*t anymore.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: ghkid2019 on August 29, 2020, 03:04:50 PM
It wouldn’t make sense if they were encouraging people to do CLL, would it? As if BLM supporters were saying, “Skin color shouldn’t matter! But hey, if you’ve got the money, start looking into skin-bleaching products.”

Oh that's not the case. They actively reject dwarves and spout hate on those who do CLL. You can be impartial and support a person thru their journey. Just like every parent of an CLL patient will not approve of the surgery, but will fully support and love the patient if they do decide to do it
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: ghkid2019 on August 29, 2020, 03:10:29 PM
Is it ridiculous, really? Is it not just logically consistent? Assumin that heightism exists and you think LL is a solution, what would be the end game? Everyone under 5'7'' just getting LL, which would raise the average height and just make those at 5'7'' shorter compared to the average (and many of those getting LL would still be short, only with reduced mobility), effectively just shifting the problem around?

Give him brain surgery too, so he'll irrevocably forget he "slept 0-2 hours" during his puberty. I can't read that sh*t anymore.

HGH given to kids is literally the best possible thing you can do. It's a low effort way to solve your kids stature problems without doing anything crazy like LL

Yeah but we're talking individuals. If someone, right now, on August 29 2020, hates their height, and wants to do LL, and is dealing with the anecdotal consequences of their short stature, there's really no point in telling em to deal with it and say "oh love yaself even tho you've tried therapy and meds and everything"
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: ghkid2019 on August 29, 2020, 03:15:23 PM
Lol I'm tired of reading that shiet too. It's more of a meme at this point, I was too angry at it but now I just observe
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: F_99 on August 29, 2020, 03:26:28 PM
Is it ridiculous, really? Is it not just logically consistent? Assumin that heightism exists and you think LL is a solution, what would be the end game? Everyone under 5'7'' just getting LL, which would raise the average height and just make those at 5'7'' shorter compared to the average (and many of those getting LL would still be short, only with reduced mobility), effectively just shifting the problem around?

+1
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: ghkid2019 on August 29, 2020, 03:31:00 PM
We can't actively fight "heightism" because what alot of people connect heightism with is female preferences.. how u gonna convince a woman to like something they biologically unattracted to.. how you gonna convince a man to be empathetic and go for a fat girl or ugly af girl out of pity.. you can't

It bullshiet that people call dating preferences heightism. U like whatchu want. Stop being a babee abt people having their own choices lul

Not to mention alot of real LL people have height neurosis from basically lack of confidence which isn't fundamentally caused by heightism. They legit can just be unhappy about themselves so solving heightism doesn't change the fact that they look at the mirror and hate it
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on August 29, 2020, 05:03:28 PM
We can't actively fight "heightism" because what alot of people connect heightism with is female preferences.. how u gonna convince a woman to like something they biologically unattracted to.. how you gonna convince a man to be empathetic and go for a fat girl or ugly af girl out of pity.. you can't

It bullshiet that people call dating preferences heightism. U like whatchu want. Stop being a babee abt people having their own choices lul


Not to mention alot of real LL people have height neurosis from basically lack of confidence which isn't fundamentally caused by heightism. They legit can just be unhappy about themselves so solving heightism doesn't change the fact that they look at the mirror and hate it

For the first time, you got something right, kid.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: ghkid2019 on August 29, 2020, 05:27:15 PM
'ppreciate it Batman.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: IwannaBeTaller on August 29, 2020, 08:21:37 PM
We can't actively fight "heightism" because what alot of people connect heightism with is female preferences.. how u gonna convince a woman to like something they biologically unattracted to.. how you gonna convince a man to be empathetic and go for a fat girl or ugly af girl out of pity.. you can't

It bullshiet that people call dating preferences heightism. U like whatchu want. Stop being a babee abt people having their own choices lul

Not to mention alot of real LL people have height neurosis from basically lack of confidence which isn't fundamentally caused by heightism. They legit can just be unhappy about themselves so solving heightism doesn't change the fact that they look at the mirror and hate it

The concept of discrimination, no matter if it's about race or body traits (height, weight, build, looks, etc.) has a lot more meaning than just "dating preferences". It could be about promotion opportunities, being able to become a well-respected member of a community, to be taken seriously, to enter certain fields and professions that have been previously barred. You can experience discrimination in pretty much every aspect of dealing with other humans beings.

Even if it's about things like dating and sxxal attraction, the issue is a lot more complex than just people having preferences for biological reasons. Anthropologists and social scientists smarter than us are still in disagreement on which behaviours are rooted in biology and which in environment. The socialization of humans begins from the moment they're born and permeates your entire lifetime. Much of what we call "female preferences" in dating might have roots in sociocultural stereotypes and traits associated with shorter guys. This is an observation commonly made among discussions around height on the internet too, with some people saying the US is a worse place for short guys than Europe because American women are more height-obsessed, or that shorter guys are still often seen as masculine and attractive in places like Spain or South America, for example.

So whether you support the idea of an organization for short statured adults or not (I personally wouldn't, because I believe it would just isolate shorter guys from the idea of "normal men" further), their goal of fighting against heightism is certainly a valid one. The methods can be questioned though.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on August 29, 2020, 10:52:14 PM
The concept of discrimination, no matter if it's about race or body traits (height, weight, build, looks, etc.) has a lot more meaning than just "dating preferences". It could be about promotion opportunities, being able to become a well-respected member of a community, to be taken seriously, to enter certain fields and professions that have been previously barred. You can experience discrimination in pretty much every aspect of dealing with other humans beings.

The majority of us don't have these problems.

Even if it's about things like dating and sxxal attraction, the issue is a lot more complex than just people having preferences for biological reasons. Anthropologists and social scientists smarter than us are still in disagreement on which behaviours are rooted in biology and which in environment. The socialization of humans begins from the moment they're born and permeates your entire lifetime. Much of what we call "female preferences" in dating might have roots in sociocultural stereotypes and traits associated with shorter guys. This is an observation commonly made among discussions around height on the internet too, with some people saying the US is a worse place for short guys than Europe because American women are more height-obsessed, or that shorter guys are still often seen as masculine and attractive in places like Spain or South America, for example.

The media might have influenced preferences a little bit. But I believe it's mostly biological reasons.

In 60s/70s, black guys weren't really potrayed well, but there were always biological attractions for them. I know this because I watch older films and I watched guys like Jim Brown and Sidney Poitier, also the boxer Ken Norton. And more modern day like Denzel Washington, Idris Elba.

Still, one thing they have all in common, is tall haha

The reason is actually very simple. The raw strength conveyed by tall stature.

Men are supposed to be the protector of their family.

However, being short as a male does in fact mean that you are inherently less dominant, less capable of protecting yourself and your family due to your shorter reach and lighter weight, provided that everything else is equal.

And this will not change in our lifetime, probably not in a million year.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: ghkid2019 on August 30, 2020, 01:09:35 AM
I wonder how many people who actually have done LL did it cuz "muh boss no gimme raise or make mee the manager oh noes", in other words, use this crippling surgery   to get a job or climb the corporate ladder

Based on all the diaries I've read, first of all you need to be at least a little successful to pay for such a huge surgery- so at that point you basically have beat the odds eh? "Short man saves tens of thousands of dollars". Short people clearly can fuccking earn and save money lol, don't try to act like we anywhere near as oppressed as being a discriminated minority group is in terms of employment

Vast majority of people who do this shiet legit either want:
-Improved opposite sxx relations and attractiveness
- fix their own negative self body image, remove neurosis..
-get public to view them as a "man" instead of having a label of a  "short man"

The ones who really feel limited in their career  by their fukking height honestly don't have the drive and won't be the ones getting enough money to afford this leg breaking surgery anyways.

No one who actually did this surgery is like "oh muh height make me manager no likey me 😥, now imma break my leggs so I can b promoted, cuz u must be 5'9 to advance the ladders!!1!!1!1"

Fighting heightism is valid, but you better be geared towards the route of fighting    like height requirements in china, and legitimate heightism versus trying to change what people think of short people in a romantic or opinionated field like who the employer or boss deems as hot or ugly. Cuz there's no point lol, this is called being human. The attractive people will be better treated than the ugly people. Don't act like you don't do the same, there's 99% chance you also treat good looking people better than ugly
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: ZUCC420 on August 30, 2020, 04:21:12 PM
Biology precedes culture, which precedes ideology. Biology > Culture > Ideology. Making an analogy to computer system, it'll be like Hardware > Operating system > Software. Fighting heightism is like trying to run a 64 bit software on a 32 bit CPU (Hardware) which is basically an exercise in futility. It's a lost cause gentlemen, just raise awareness for a solution to grow taller instead.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 05, 2020, 01:44:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbZOT4_43_s
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 08:47:13 AM
I wonder how many people who actually have done LL did it cuz "muh boss no gimme raise or make mee the manager oh noes", in other words, use this crippling surgery   to get a job or climb the corporate ladder

Based on all the diaries I've read, first of all you need to be at least a little successful to pay for such a huge surgery- so at that point you basically have beat the odds eh? "Short man saves tens of thousands of dollars". Short people clearly can fuccking earn and save money lol, don't try to act like we anywhere near as oppressed as being a discriminated minority group is in terms of employment

Vast majority of people who do this shiet legit either want:
-Improved opposite sxx relations and attractiveness
- fix their own negative self body image, remove neurosis..
-get public to view them as a "man" instead of having a label of a  "short man"

The ones who really feel limited in their career  by their fukking height honestly don't have the drive and won't be the ones getting enough money to afford this leg breaking surgery anyways.

No one who actually did this surgery is like "oh muh height make me manager no likey me 😥, now imma break my leggs so I can b promoted, cuz u must be 5'9 to advance the ladders!!1!!1!1"

Fighting heightism is valid, but you better be geared towards the route of fighting    like height requirements in china, and legitimate heightism versus trying to change what people think of short people in a romantic or opinionated field like who the employer or boss deems as hot or ugly. Cuz there's no point lol, this is called being human. The attractive people will be better treated than the ugly people. Don't act like you don't do the same, there's 99% chance you also treat good looking people better than ugly


If you can understand this:


Vast majority of people who do this shiet legit either want:
-Improved opposite sxx relations and attractiveness
- fix their own negative self body image, remove neurosis..
-get public to view them as a "man" instead of having a label of a  "short man"


then you can understand that wanting to get a raise and equal job opportunities are part of the very thing you're talking about. I don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx. If you're less attractive, treated with less respect by people in general then you bet that this is going to affect your self image and career because guess what, your bosses and people who make decisions to promote you are humans too. Sure that short men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.
You are delusional if you think you're somehow detached from worldly problems of being short and that your reason for wanting LL is somehow more legitimate. "I'm not like you short losers who want LL because of discrimination! I want LL because uhhh muh self image!"
We don't live in a vacuum. There is a reason why short people have a negative self image and those beliefs aren't born out of thin air. It's because you understand on some fundamental level that being short is considered bad, negative in our modern society.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 12, 2020, 09:19:19 AM
I don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx.

The thing is we don't feel like being limited in our career.

Sure that short men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.

Nothing to do with being outliers.

Short men can have a great career because height is irrelevant in certain careers in the first place.

Short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models but never because these models find the short men physically attractive but rather just want to take advantage of these short men in some way.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: F_99 on September 12, 2020, 10:18:24 AM

If you can understand this:


Vast majority of people who do this shiet legit either want:
-Improved opposite sxx relations and attractiveness (1)
- fix their own negative self body image, remove neurosis.. (2)
-get public to view them as a "man" instead of having a label of a  "short man (3)

The second 'point' you 'quoted' in this case is caused by 1 and 3. Like unequal job opportunities that you mention below, lower self esteem, etc.

then you can understand that wanting to get a raise and equal job opportunities are part of the very thing you're talking about. I don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx.

Maybe because they don't care about the opposite s*x. Or any s*x at all, and don't give a damn anymore.
So it can be 'different'. It varies from individual to individual.

Sure that short men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.

You inserted the concept of statistical outliers, having already a very small and 'weird' statistical sample ("short men who date gorgeous models"), that you know very little about.
Comparing short men in general with short men that date (super)models is futile.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 10:38:14 AM
The thing is we don't feel like being limited in our career.

Nothing to do with being outliers.

Short men can have a great career because height is irrelevant in certain careers in the first place.

Short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models but never because these models find the short men physically attractive but rather just want to take advantage of these short men in some way.

YOU don't feel like it limits your career. You're speaking from a personal perspective. Statistically speaking, you earn $800 more every inch taller you are. Anyone with common sense would tell you that height of course matter even in the workplace because what is the workplace? It's just a place where humans socialize to work for/towards something. Yes there are some fields where knowledge and expertise are more important but two people of the same skill but different heights can earn more depending on who is taller. Even if you are more qualified for a job, you could get passed over for someone who is less qualified because he is taller. Not only do you have to get your knowledge down to a T but you also have to work harder to get the same opportunity.

 Wanting to be taller for your career is a more legitimate concern because a job is supposed to be based on your merit whereas nobody owes you to be attracted to you.

The second 'point' you 'quoted' in this case is caused by 1 and 3. Like unequal job opportunities that you mention below, lower self esteem, etc.

Maybe because they don't care about the opposite s*x. Or any s*x at all, and don't give a damn anymore.
So it can be 'different'. It varies from individual to individual.

You inserted the concept of statistical outliers, having already a very small and 'weird' statistical sample ("short men who date gorgeous models"), that you know very little about.
Comparing short men in general with short men that date (super)models is futile.

What is the point of your post. It seems like you agree with me. Yes there are outliers where short men can succeed despite being short doesn't change the fact that being short makes it harder for you. That's exactly my point.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: F_99 on September 12, 2020, 10:42:51 AM
What is the point of your post. It seems like you agree with me. Yes there are outliers where short men can succeed despite being short doesn't change the fact that being short makes it harder for you. That's exactly my point.

What is the point of YOUR post.
Working enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand for everyone.
Where exactly I agree with you? You compare things that shouldn't really be compared, and you project your opinions as what's going on in reality.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 12, 2020, 10:49:47 AM
YOU don't feel like it limits your career. You're speaking from a personal perspective. Statistically speaking, you earn $800 more every inch taller you are. Anyone with common sense would tell you that height of course matter even in the workplace because what is the workplace? It's just a place where humans socialize to work for/towards something. Yes there are some fields where knowledge and expertise are more important but two people of the same skill but different heights can earn more depending on who is taller. Wanting to be taller for your career is a more legitimate concern because a job is supposed to be based on your merit whereas nobody owes you to be attracted to you.

What is the point of your post. It seems like you agree with me. Yes there are outliers where short men can succeed despite being short doesn't change the fact that being short makes it harder for you. That's exactly my point.

That's right I am speaking for personal experience. It seems that no many people here did the surgery to get promoted in the workplace  either.

What would make more sense is, supposed I got good looks, my height can hinder me from being a male model/actor/flight attendant. Then I do the surgery to increase my height. If you do the surgery so that you can get promoted in the workplace, that'd be a joke.

I'm sure if someone did the survey, we'd find that good-looking people earn more money compared to bad-looking people. There are female Instagram models who make money just by being attractive alone. Would you like to complain about that?

In the end good-looking people in general will always have an advantage in every aspect in life.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 11:03:04 AM
What is the point of YOUR post.
Working enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand.
Where exactly I agree with you? You compare things uncomparable, and you project your opinions as what's going on in reality.

What do you disagree with what I said?

When you're considered less attractive to the opposite sxx and treated with less respect you can expect that person to have a lower self esteem because of the way he/she is treated so you have a poor self image. When you have a poor self image it affects your confidence thus affecting your ability to do x job, affecting your ability to socialize, your mood, your mental health etc. so you can see how this this can affect your career at least from a internal point of view that is not even taking into account the external i.e. something outside of your control like how other people see you and treat you.

Dating and career are both correlated because they both deal with people and people are biased. It's a no brainer.
You earn $800 more for every inch taller you are. This is a statistical fact so how can you say that height doesn't affect career when you know this?

That's right I am speaking for personal experience. It seems that no many people here did the surgery to get promoted in the workplace  either.

What would make more sense is, supposed I got good looks, my height can hinder me from being a male model/actor/flight attendant. Then I do the surgery to increase my height. If you do the surgery so that you can get promoted in the workplace, that'd be a joke.

I'm sure if someone did the survey, we'd find that good-looking people earn more money compared to bad-looking people. There are female Instagram models who make money just by being attractive alone. Would you like to complain about that?

In the end good-looking people in general will always have an advantage in every aspect in life.


How is getting LL surgery to get a job you want or to give you a better chance to get that job any different from wanting to LL to get more respect, become more attractive or to fix height neurosis? Yes good looking people probably earn more money than ugly people. Height is a part of what is "good looking". The further opposite of "good" you are the more you are penalized or the harder it is for you. You have height neurosis because being short is considered bad in our society. You wouldn't be in this forum wanting to get LL if you didn't. They part of the same problem.

You might not feel like your height affects your career just as there are short guys who don't have height neurosis and go on with their life.
Saying people who feel limited by their height don't have the drive to succeed in their career is no different than saying people who feel limited by their height neurosis don't have the willpower to move forward in their life. If anything your height neurosis is self imposed.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: IwannaBeTaller on September 12, 2020, 11:13:37 AM
The thing is we don't feel like being limited in our career.

Some of the posters here don't even have careers LOL.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: F_99 on September 12, 2020, 11:40:56 AM
What do you disagree with what I said?

I don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx.

Maybe because they don't care about the opposite s*x. Or any s*x at all, and don't give a damn anymore.
So it can be 'different'. It varies from individual to individual.

So

Working enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand for everyone.

..

When you're considered less attractive to the opposite sxx and treated with less respect you can expect that person to have a lower self esteem because of the way he/she is treated so you have a poor self image. When you have a poor self image it affects your confidence thus affecting your ability to do x job, affecting your ability to socialize, your mood, your mental health etc. so you can see how this this can affect your career at least from a internal point of view that is not even taking into account the external i.e. something outside of your control like how other people see you and treat you.

Yes. I don't disagree with everything that you say/id, the quoted parts were the ones, just to be clear.
The second 'point' you 'quoted' in this case is caused by 1 and 3. Like unequal job opportunities that you mention below, lower self esteem, etc.

..

Dating and career are both correlated because they both deal with people and people are biased. It's a no brainer.
You earn $800 more for every inch taller you are. This is a statistical fact so how can you say that height doesn't affect career when you know this?

When did I say that height doesn't affect career statistically?
I didn't say that dating and career aren't correlated. For some they aren't.
Working enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand for everyone.

Also disagree with your comparison.

short men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.

..

Some of the posters here don't even have careers LOL.

Been working as a programmer for a while and I already feel the heightism.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: ghkid2019 on September 12, 2020, 12:05:27 PM
[Redacted, wrong post, wrong brain]
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 12, 2020, 12:27:57 PM
You have height neurosis because being short is considered bad in our society. You wouldn't be in this forum wanting to get LL if you didn't. They part of the same problem.

Being short is considered bad in our society because it is inherently bad. Trying to change that is just as moronic as trying to change the way being ugly/fat/small-dcked is considered bad.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: ghkid2019 on September 12, 2020, 12:38:16 PM
One thing I will say about the whole height neurosis/ heightism/ leg lengthening procedure / everything this whole ordeal, is that you can think for yourselves as to why you should or shouldn't do this surgery. I have my own opinions, but it's just that- opinions. Plenty of people have their own, completely logical and justified unorthodox reasons for why they want to do their surgery. In the end if this surgery will improve your quality of life- by either removing neurosis (don't conflate this with being happier tho) or by opening doors that you practically weren't able to open as a shorter person, then more power to you.

And that's the ultimate goal- to achieve a better quality of life after this surgery. I will support everyone, if your intended effect of this surgery is to improve your life- then you don't need to take in other people's opinions. You can think for yourself- and that's a positive thing.

Imagine you go to R/short or the YouTube comments and try to explain why you want to do this procedure. Every argument would start and end with "muh breaking muh bones so dangerous perma pain oh my god I can buy a house wit dat moola". We unfortunately will never be approval from 98% of society for wanting to do this surgery or seen as "same" when in fact we know the truth and how this surgery actually makes total sense if you think about how much height neurosis/height insecurities/ problems resulting from height, how much this really drags down our life and how LL's pain and downsides really aren't too bad in comparison to the reward it can provide in improving our mental state and outlook on life.

You can think for yourself- and you don't need others approval to do this surgery. Everyone has their own reasons. I am just giving an opinion, but I can definitely see how some people's experience differ and are completely valid and justified.

I'm gonna share a random quote I found online a few weeks ago (it's underrelated to LL, but rather transgenderism, I'm not trans at all but it applies the same way to Leg surgery and Transitioning surgery/hormone therapy):

"
Quote
Before I transitioned, I wish I had known that it's OK to think for yourself. I grew up in a tough, hostile home environment. Facing that and a society that discourages female voices made everything even more difficult. I felt like I couldn't trust myself. It took finding feminism to realize that my voice mattered.

I fought with myself for quite a while. As a child I felt male and even "packed"—padding a phallic object in the front of pants or underwear. A girl that I felt strongly for told me that she only liked boys, and inside I was screaming, "But I am one!" As a teenager I was judged a lot, frequently labelled as too loud and opinionated, and even too happy. But my outward appearance of happiness [masked] self-hatred.


 I felt that I needed to be sure. Over and over, I asked others if they could tell me if I was trans. Deep down I knew the answer, but I needed confirmation. When I finally told a mental health professional that I thought I could be transgender (guiltily as if I were admitting to a crime) he said, "You can just [stay] a female and wear men's clothing."

Just two weeks later (and against the professional’s advice), I was in a support group when a trans woman broke down in tears and said she felt all alone. Her family was not accepting her transition. When I stood up for her, I realized that I could stand up for myself, too. I came out to the support group as a boy (with my hair still in pigtails).

That was a year ago. Yesterday, I went in for my first testosterone appointment. I am just now accepting who I am, for myself. The main thing that I wish I would have known before I transitioned is that you don't need anyone's permission but your own."

Essentially replace "transitioning" with "leg lengthening" and you'll see what I mean.

That last part is the most important part.

You don't need other people's permission, not your parents, friends, society's, women, siblings, co-workers, nah fk that.

"you don't need anyone's permission but your own"
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 01:24:27 PM
So

..

Yes. I don't disagree with everything that you say/id, the quoted parts were the ones, just to be clear.
..

When did I say that height doesn't affect career statistically?
I didn't say that dating and career aren't correlated. For some they aren't.
Also disagree with your comparison.

..

Been working as a programmer for a while and I already feel the heightism.

You're arguing semantics. Yes for some their height limits their career more, for some their dating and for somebody else how much they're respected. You could be affected on all of these or some of them so which one affects you might be different but the common denominator is that they're limited by their height which is why they're not that different.
If you don't care about the opposite sxx or sxx, that doesn't mean that your height won't affect you in attracting the opposite sxx or getting sxx, it doesn't affect you in the sense that you don't care about it.

One thing I will say about the whole height neurosis/ heightism/ leg lengthening procedure / everything this whole ordeal, is that you can think for yourselves as to why you should or shouldn't do this surgery. I have my own opinions, but it's just that- opinions. Plenty of people have their own, completely logical and justified unorthodox reasons for why they want to do their surgery. In the end if this surgery will improve your quality of life- by either removing neurosis (don't conflate this with being happier tho) or by opening doors that you practically weren't able to open as a shorter person, then more power to you.

And that's the ultimate goal- to achieve a better quality of life after this surgery. I will support everyone, if your intended effect of this surgery is to improve your life- then you don't need to take in other people's opinions. You can think for yourself- and that's a positive thing.

Imagine you go to R/short or the YouTube comments and try to explain why you want to do this procedure. Every argument would start and end with "muh breaking muh bones so dangerous perma pain oh my god I can buy a house wit dat moola". We unfortunately will never be approval from 98% of society for wanting to do this surgery or seen as "same" when in fact we know the truth and how this surgery actually makes total sense if you think about how much height neurosis/height insecurities/ problems resulting from height, how much this really drags down our life and how LL's pain and downsides really aren't too bad in comparison to the reward it can provide in improving our mental state and outlook on life.

You can think for yourself- and you don't need others approval to do this surgery. Everyone has their own reasons. I am just giving an opinion, but I can definitely see how some people's experience differ and are completely valid and justified.

I'm gonna share a random quote I found online a few weeks ago (it's underrelated to LL, but rather transgenderism, I'm not trans at all but it applies the same way to Leg surgery and Transitioning surgery/hormone therapy):

"
Essentially replace "transitioning" with "leg lengthening" and you'll see what I mean.

That last part is the most important part.

You don't need other people's permission, not your parents, friends, society's, women, siblings, co-workers, nah fk that.

"you don't need anyone's permission but your own"

I agree with most of your points except that leg lengthening and transitioning is the same in practicality but not in essence. What I mean by this is that we both change our bodies to become more comfortable/happier but the difference between transitioning and leg lengthening is that not all of us were meant to be tall/taller. We might have ended up short completely naturally without external effects hindering our growth potential whereas trans people were born with the opposite gender identity (their innate knowledge of who they are) of their assigned sxx. You don't know that you were meant to be 6'2 even from when you're little (although some might disagree here) but you know that if you are a boy or a girl.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: IwannaBeTaller on September 12, 2020, 01:57:36 PM
Being short is considered bad in our society because it is inherently bad.

BS.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: F_99 on September 12, 2020, 02:11:53 PM
You're arguing semantics.

No.

Comparing short men in general with short men that date (super)models is futile.
Ain't a semantics argument.
Saying that working environment and dating aren't the same in importance height wise for everyone ain't a semantics argument.

If you don't care about the opposite sxx or sxx, that doesn't mean that your height won't affect you in attracting the opposite sxx or getting sxx, it doesn't affect you in the sense that you don't care about it.

That's meaningless. If I don't care about the opposite s*x or s*x at all, the fact that I won't be attractive to the opposite (or the same) s*x means nothing to me.

But you wrote this:
I don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx.

It's clear that height affecting your career can be hugely 'different' than becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx. Because the latter can be meaningless for some.
Keep in mind that there are people (not the majority) stating that they want to become taller/do LL not because they're struggling or have any issues with dating, at all.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: carpetendro on September 12, 2020, 04:22:51 PM
No.
Ain't a semantics argument.
Saying that working environment and dating aren't the same in importance height wise for everyone ain't a semantics argument.

That's meaningless. If I don't care about the opposite s*x or s*x at all, the fact that I won't be attractive to the opposite (or the same) s*x means nothing to me.

But you wrote this:
It's clear that height affecting your career can be hugely 'different' than becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx. Because the latter can be meaningless for some.
Keep in mind that there are people (not the majority) stating that they want to become taller/do LL not because they're struggling or have any issues with dating, at all.

It is semantics because you're not understanding what I'm saying or you have a problem reading.
Dating is meaningless to YOU but it might not be to OTHER people. 
Them wanting to get LL to increase their success at dating is no different than wanting LL to increase your success at your career. What is a big problem to you might not be to someone else and vice versa. What is so hard to understand about this? You're only looking at this from your point of view.

You might not have issues with dating because of your height but if you're not dating then you can't say for certain that your height doesn't affect your dating. It might not but you can't say it doesn't when you're not even dating in the first place so this is a stupid argument. If we were being honest then you and I both know that height does affect dating as does in other aspects in life. If it didn't we wouldn't be in this forum.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: F_99 on September 12, 2020, 06:18:39 PM
It is semantics because you're not understanding what I'm saying or you have a problem reading.

No. You just have nothing else to write.

Dating is meaningless to YOU but it might not be to OTHER people.

Can't you read?
When did I say that dating is meaningless to me personally?
I wrote 'if'

If I don't care about the opposite s*x or s*x at all, the fact that I won't be attractive to the opposite (or the same) s*x means nothing to me.

IF

Them wanting to get LL to increase their success at dating is no different than wanting LL to increase your success at your career. What is a big problem to you might not be to someone else and vice versa. What is so hard to understand about this?

Here's what you wrote initially:
I don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx.

Here's the reply you've been getting but don't understand.
Maybe because they don't care about the opposite s*x. Or any s*x at all, and don't give a damn anymore.
So it can be 'different'. It varies from individual to individual.

You're only looking at this from your point of view.

Lol! Exactly what I replied to you earlier. Unoriginal, mate.
You compare things that shouldn't really be compared, and you project your opinions as what's going on in reality.

You might not have issues with dating because of your height but if you're not dating then you can't say for certain that your height doesn't affect your dating.

Irrelevant assumption + argument.

It might not but you can't say it doesn't when you're not even dating in the first place so this is a stupid argument.

You created an argument yourself out of nowhere and later called it stupid.
Nice.

If we were being honest then you and I both know that height does affect dating as does in other aspects in life. If it didn't we wouldn't be in this forum.

For me personally my height affects dating negatively. And that's the case with most young short people (mainly males). But again, there are people who say their height doesn't, there are people who don't give a sh*t about dating at all, 40+ yrs old married guys, 'older' men that couldn't care less anymore what other people think about them, and want to do LL because of a psycological unfulfilled desire/'obsession' or whatever reason.
Just because it does affect us negatively, doesn't mean everyone wants LL because of dating.

It is semantics

Again my reply to this:
Sure that short men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.
You are delusional

You inserted the concept of statistical outliers, having already a very small and 'weird' statistical sample ("short men who date gorgeous models"), that you know very little about.
Comparing short men in general with short men that date (super)models is futile.

Ain't a semantics argument either.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: carpetendro on September 14, 2020, 10:49:57 AM
No. You just have nothing else to write.

Can't you read?
When did I say that dating is meaningless to me personally?
I wrote 'if'

IF


Here's what you wrote initially:
Here's the reply you've been getting but don't understand.
Lol! Exactly what I replied to you earlier. Unoriginal, mate.
Irrelevant assumption + argument.

You created an argument yourself out of nowhere and later called it stupid.
Nice.

For me personally my height affects dating negatively. And that's the case with most young short people (mainly males). But again, there are people who say their height doesn't, there are people who don't give a sh*t about dating at all, 40+ yrs old married guys, 'older' men that couldn't care less anymore what other people think about them, and want to do LL because of a psycological unfulfilled desire/'obsession' or whatever reason.
Just because it does affect us negatively, doesn't mean everyone wants LL because of dating.

Again my reply to this:
Ain't a semantics argument either.

I swear you must be a moron. You made a redundant statement just to for the sake of saying something. Of course I'm not talking about it literally. Whatever your reasons for getting LL you're still getting LL. You can't make hypothetical arguments and then tell me I'm creating an argument when your argument is being retorted. Learn reading comprehension.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 14, 2020, 11:00:02 AM
I swear you must be a moron. You made a redundant statement just to for the sake of saying something. Of course I'm not talking about it literally. Whatever your reasons for getting LL you're still getting LL. You can't make hypothetical arguments and then tell me I'm creating an argument when your argument is being retorted. Learn reading comprehension.

Drop it man. What you're arguing is of no importance. I don't even know what's the issue here. What matters now is we have to come up with a superior alternative to LL.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: F_99 on September 14, 2020, 12:29:48 PM
You made a redundant statement just to for the sake of saying something. Of course I'm not talking about it literally. Whatever your reasons for getting LL you're still getting LL. You can't make hypothetical arguments and then tell me I'm creating an argument when your argument is being retorted. Learn reading comprehension.

No. You project your opinions as what's going on in reality, and you make stupid arguments out of nowhere yourself.

As another poster told you here http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?action=post;quote=177750;topic=65411.0

You think the world revolves around and works the way you think it works for you. You will never accept if someone else doesn't have the same experience or motives as you. With that mindset, you will never accept other people's realities, and there is no opportunity to grow in your mindset. Thank you for telling me, the reason why I want to do this surgery, because you obviously know more about me than myself.


I swear you must be a moron.

Nah, you are just butthurt because you lost the original arguments, and because you've been told that you make crappy comparisons (which you do) and present your own opinions as established facts, but I don't give a sh*t about your feelings, so I'm just going to ignore you and move on.

Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: carpetendro on September 14, 2020, 12:51:33 PM
No. You project your opinions as what's going on in reality, and you make stupid arguments out of nowhere yourself.

As another poster told you here http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?action=post;quote=177750;topic=65411.0


Nah, you are just butthurt because you lost the original arguments, and because you've been told that you make crappy comparisons (which you do) and present your own opinions as established facts, but and I don't give a sh*t about your feelings, so I'm just going to ignore you and move on.


They’re crappy comparisons to you because it's hard for you to contextualize them but that's not my problem. When you're too stupid to understand words and what they mean then claim you've won the argument because you can't comprehend what is being said. I love morons who think they're intelligent because of their own stupidity and lack of self-awareness.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: F_99 on September 14, 2020, 01:10:22 PM
They crappy comparisons to you because it's hard for you to contextualize them but that's not my problem

You still going??
You compared short men in general with short men that date (super)models (!) and said there are outliers. So what? It's meanigless.

Sure that short men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.

Do you think 169cm Lionel Messi would have the same struggles or any struggles dating super(models) as the normal short guy?
Or 170cm Vladimir Putin? Or billionaire Mark Zuckerberg? Rich short oil Arabs? Hell, even short rich lawers date gorgeous models where I live. There's a point where height doesn't mean sh*t anymore.
The problem with the majority of/average short guys (rest of us) which you compared with a 'just like', is that we'll never pass or even come close to that point.
That was a silly comparison.

When you're too stupid to understand words and what they mean then claim you've won the argument because you can't comprehend what is being said.

You didn't refute anything, you didn't even understood what I said for the most part. You created arguments yourself, said that doing LL for 'career purposes' isn't any different than doing it for dating, when there are people who don't even want to do LL for dating or don't care, wrote that just because 'dating is meaningless to me personally'...while it isn't[..], couldn't distinguish assumptions ('IF I don't care') with statements ('I don't care about the opposite/same sxx') that didn't exist in the first place.

I love morons who think they're intelligent because of their own stupidity and lack of self-awareness.
Self-love can be a good thing.

Done with you.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: carpetendro on September 14, 2020, 01:34:53 PM

Okay let me break this down for you. I'll make it as simple as I can so you can get it through your thick skull.

Quote
"You compared short men in general with short men that date (super)models (!) and said there are outliers. So what? It's meanigless."

The point of this comparison is to show that while there are short men that date supermodels that doesn't change the fact that being short will affect an average short man's ability to date supermodels or their dating in a general sense. I don't think anybody would disagree that being short affects your dating opportunities IN GENERAL.
This was in reply to the original person who asked why would anyone want to do LL for their career because they don't see being short affecting their career. Just because you personally aren't affected by being short in your career doesn't mean that someone else might not and I even went on to further explain that statistically speaking, it does, although your height could totally not be a hindrance to YOU in your career.



Quote
"Do you think 169cm Lionel Messi would have the same struggles or any struggles dating super(models) as the normal short guy?
Or 170cm Vladimir Putin? Or billionaire Mark Zuckerberg? Rich short oil Arabs? Hell, even short rich lawers date gorgeous models where I live. There's a point where height doesn't mean sh*t anymore.
The problem with the majority of/average short guys (rest of us) which you compared with a 'just like', is that we'll never pass or even come close to that point.
That was a silly comparison."

Look at the first paragraph.

Quote
"You didn't refute anything, you didn't even understood what I said for the most part. You created arguments yourself, wrote that 'dating is meaningless to me', couldn't distinguish assumptions ('IF I don't care') with statements ('I don't care about the oppsoite/same sxx') that didn't exist in the first place."

I didn't create arguments myself. You created a hypothetical saying "If dating is meaningless to me and I don't care about sxx at all" and I replied to your hypothetical saying that if you aren't dating in the first place then how can you know that dating doesn't affect you because of your short height. It's like saying "Hey I don't have a job and I don't care about having one " then going on to say that your height doesn't affect your career. Do you see how absurd this is.

Quote
"Self-love can be a good thing."

Yes it can be a good thing but not when you're an idiot. Then please self reflect and change.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 14, 2020, 01:57:55 PM
Do you think 169cm Lionel Messi would have the same struggles or any struggles dating super(models) as the normal short guy?
Or 170cm Vladimir Putin? Or billionaire Mark Zuckerberg? Rich short oil Arabs? Hell, even short rich lawers date gorgeous models where I live. There's a point where height doesn't mean sh*t anymore.

No, it will still and always matter. First of all, not every girl is a gold digger and can be bought. Secondly, even if they date supermodels, it won't be because the supermodels find them hot. You see Mark Zuckerberg's wife is not even attractive. Lionel Messi's wife is an average Latina, not a model or anything. I don't even remember any other woman he dated except for the one he's currently married to. He was never seen as a sxx symbol like Christiano CRonnie7 who dated so many attractive women.

Some things will always matter regardless of how rich, famous and talented you become and height is one of them.

Here is an easy proof on how height will always matter.

(https://i.imgur.com/DxJ0VmR.jpg)
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: carpetendro on September 14, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
No, it will still and always matter. First of all, not every girl is a gold digger and can be bought. Secondly, even if they date supermodels, it won't be because the supermodels find them hot. You see Mark Zuckerberg's wife is not even attractive. Lionel Messi's wife is an average Latina, not a model or anything. I don't even remember any other woman he dated except for the one he's currently married to. He was never seen as a sxx symbol like Christiano CRonnie7 who dated so many attractive women.

Some things will always matter regardless of how rich, famous and talented you become and height is one of them.

Here is an easy proof on how height will always matter.

(https://i.imgur.com/DxJ0VmR.jpg)

I don’t think you can say that it ALWAYS matters by showing one example of a random girl saying Taylor Lautner is too short for her. I could just as easily show you a picture of a couple where the woman is taller than the man, would that prove that height doesn’t matter? If I was Taylor Lautner I wouldn’t care about the opinion of a random nobody because I would my pick of options.

If you’re using being a sxx symbol as a metric for why height always matters then I can show you Bob Dylan who was 5’7, Prince who was 5’2 or Tom Cruise who is 5’7. This is a bit too black and white. I would say that majority of women care about height but that’s not to say that everyone of them strongly cares about height and the only reason they’re with you is because of your wealth or fame.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 14, 2020, 02:57:48 PM
I don’t think you can say that it ALWAYS matters by showing one example of a random girl saying Taylor Lautner is too short for her. I could just as easily show you a picture of a couple where the woman is taller than the man, would that prove that height doesn’t matter? If I was Taylor Lautner I wouldn’t care about the opinion of a random nobody because I would my pick of options.

If you’re using being a sxx symbol as a metric for why height always matters then I can show you Bob Dylan who was 5’7, Prince who was 5’2 or Tom Cruise who is 5’7. This is a bit too black and white. I would say that majority of women care about height but that’s not to say that everyone of them strongly cares about height and the only reason they’re with you is because of your wealth or fame.

What do you mean? Your personal needs don't reflect the reality of what matters and what doesn't. Here I show you a pic of Taylor Lautner getting mocked by 3-4 girls for the fact that he looks short in that picture (I said it like this because he's not actually short at 174cm) in spite of him being handsome, incredibly fit, rich and famous. If you don't care about getting ridiculed by other people, then that's your problem, but that's not to say that other people will have the same attitude. This is just one example, there are many more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvnXHGfryKs

Tom Cruise is closer to 5'8". Not that short. Even then a lot of women don't find him that attractive apparently.

Prince is an interesting case. To be honest, the only reason I found out the existence of this guy was because I was reading too much about height. I never met someone in real life who talked about him.

Point is I honestly don't understand how some people considered him a sxx symbol and I don't exactly know the situation back then. But obviously no woman that's not a fan him would find him attractive in the slightest.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: F_99 on September 14, 2020, 03:11:09 PM
Okay let me break this down for you. I'll make it as simple as I can so you can get it through your thick skull.

The point of this comparison is to show that while there are short men that date supermodels that doesn't change the fact that being short will affect an average short man's ability to date supermodels or their dating in a general sense. I don't think anybody would disagree that being short affects your dating opportunities IN GENERAL.
This was in reply to the original person who asked why would anyone want to do LL for their career because they don't see being short affecting their career. Just because you personally aren't affected by being short in your career doesn't mean that someone else might not and I even went on to further explain that statistically speaking, it does, although your height could totally not be a hindrance to YOU in your career.



Look at the first paragraph.

I didn't create arguments myself. You created a hypothetical saying "If dating is meaningless to me and I don't care about sxx at all" and I replied to your hypothetical saying that if you aren't dating in the first place then how can you know that dating doesn't affect you because of your short height. It's like saying "Hey I don't have a job and I don't care about having one " then going on to say that your height doesn't affect your career. Do you see how absurd this is.

Yes it can be a good thing but not when you're an idiot. Then please self reflect and change.

Here's why you won't be getting actual replies to your garbage 'gem' posts from me, (I'm here because of Bruce Wayne's reply)
https://imgur.com/gallery/Qfc9Lf9?nc=1

The 'Crocodile' in this case equals 'Wasting my time'.

__

No, it will still and always matter. First of all, not every girl is a gold digger and can be bought.

What I meant is they're will be able to date supermodels kinda like normal men can date normal women. Not every woman will want to f* with you (as a normal guy) and that's the case with Messi. If he was interested in supermodels, some of them wouldn't want a relationship with him, some might would want(?) but 'shalloow gold diggers' would be there anyway.

Quote
Secondly, even if they date supermodels, it won't be because the supermodels find them hot.

It doesn't matter. They will date supermodels nonetheless.

Quote
You see Mark Zuckerberg's wife is not even attractive. Lionel Messi's wife is an average Latina, not a model or anything.

Yeah, because those guys aren't interested in dating supermodels, exactly because of what you said, they know they won't find them hot, but their fame, power, money, etc
There are others that simply don't care and would still date supermodels.

Quote
Here is an easy proof on how height will always matter.

That's one specific example and doesn't really mean much.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 14, 2020, 03:36:40 PM
It doesn't matter. They will date supermodels nonetheless.

So maybe it doesn't matter to you. To me, it makes a WORLD difference whether a woman likes me because of ME or my money or just want to take advantage of me in some way. And I'm sure it matters to a lot of other guys too.

If a woman likes you because of your money or anything other than yourself, what would be the difference between her and a working girl? I might as well just spend a couple hundred bucks on one and call it a day instead of waiting to be rich and famous so that I can finally attract women who'll like me for my money.

That's one specific example and doesn't really mean much.

There will be many examples like that, another one has been posted above.

But we don't need all of them to prove this point.

Height will not cease to matter once you become rich and famous.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: F_99 on September 14, 2020, 03:53:53 PM
So maybe it doesn't matter to you. To me, it makes a WORLD difference whether a woman likes me because of ME or my money or just want to take advantage of me in some way. And I'm sure it matters to a lot of other guys too.

That's a little different. We are talking about supermodels here, and I don't know about you, but an average 172/3cm guy's (mine) opinion here means what?
You expect to become +10cm taller, and as a 178cm guy super models will imediately wanna date you? Haven't CR7 divorced like 3 times? How many of these models truly 'loved' him anyway?
Yes, I wouldn't like to date a woman for my money too, but there are guys who don't give a sh*t.

Quote
If a woman likes you because of your money or anything other than yourself, what would be the difference between her and a working girl? I might as well just spend a couple hundred bucks on one and call it a day instead of waiting to be rich and famous so that I can finally attract women who'll like me for my money.

I don't understand what you mean here. The bolded part is very unlikely to happen based on probabilities anyway.

Quote
Height will not cease to matter once you become rich and famous.

This was about dating supermodels.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 14, 2020, 04:30:36 PM
That's a little different. We are talking about supermodels here

Actually I was talking about attracting women and how height will matter in general. But the point stays the same.

You expect to become +10cm taller, and as a 178cm guy super models will imediately wanna date you?

I don't know about supermodels. But that would significantly increase my sxx appeal, thus more women will be more attracted to me, supermodel or not.

Haven't CR7 divorced like 3 times? How many of these models truly 'loved' him anyway?

Now, here's the thing. There is a difference between love and pure sxxual attraction. The fact that he has divorced 3 times only shows that he's been with a lot of women.

but there are guys who don't give a sh*t.

There are guys who don't give a   about girls or money or their whole life. Doesn't mean anything.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: F_99 on September 14, 2020, 04:53:07 PM
Actually I was talking about attracting women and how height will matter in general. But the point stays the same.

Yeah but you replied to this first.
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It doesn't matter. They will date supermodels nonetheless.

with
Quote
So maybe it doesn't matter to you. To me, it makes a WORLD difference whether a woman likes me because of ME or my money or just want to take advantage of me in some way. And I'm sure it matters to a lot of other guys too.

Quote
I don't know about supermodels. But that would significantly increase my sxx appeal, thus more women will be more attracted to me

It will. Especially if you have a handsome face, or fix/enhance it 'easier' (compared to LL), jawline implants, f.e.

Quote
Now, here's the thing. There is a difference between love and pure sxxual attraction. The fact that he has divorced 3 times only shows that he's been with a lot of women.

It shows that they don't really care about him. And they're 'supermodels'.


The guys who don't give a sh*t and will still date supermodels, exist. And some short guys can date them too with this mindset.

Quote
There are guys who don't give a   about girls or money or their whole life. Doesn't mean anything.

How is this related?


_____


Honestly,
Not going to argue with you now about supermodels and CR7.
There are more intersting stuff in this forum http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=65471.93 to look for.

Out.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: NotSoBigBadBruin on September 15, 2020, 11:20:37 PM
No, it will still and always matter. First of all, not every girl is a gold digger and can be bought. Secondly, even if they date supermodels, it won't be because the supermodels find them hot. You see Mark Zuckerberg's wife is not even attractive. Lionel Messi's wife is an average Latina, not a model or anything. I don't even remember any other woman he dated except for the one he's currently married to. He was never seen as a sxx symbol like Christiano CRonnie7 who dated so many attractive women.

Some things will always matter regardless of how rich, famous and talented you become and height is one of them.

Here is an easy proof on how height will always matter.


A (female) friend of mine recently said that she’d never date Dwayne Johnson because she thinks bald guys are unattractive. Does this prove that women, in general, cannot be attracted to bald guys? Nope.

Like baldness, short stature is certainly a disadvantage, but you can make up for it with a handsome face, great hair, etc. (the shorter you are, the more difficult it is, of course).

Do you know Zayn? He’s 5’7-8” and is dating Gigi Hadid. And I’m pretty sure she’s attracted to him.

(https://hips-hearstapps-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/gigi-hadid-and-zayn-malik-seen-out-in-manhattan-on-april-25-news-photo-673048382-1553858586.jpg?crop=0.833xw:0.833xh;0.0765xw,0.0663xh&resize=980:*)
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: Body Builder on September 16, 2020, 12:26:32 AM
A (female) friend of mine recently said that she’d never date Dwayne Johnson because she thinks bald guys are unattractive. Does this prove that women, in general, cannot be attracted to bald guys? Nope.

Like baldness, short stature is certainly a disadvantage, but you can make up for it with a handsome face, great hair, etc. (the shorter you are, the more difficult it is, of course).

Do you know Zayn? He’s 5’7-8” and is dating Gigi Hadid. And I’m pretty sure she’s attracted to him.

(https://hips-hearstapps-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/gigi-hadid-and-zayn-malik-seen-out-in-manhattan-on-april-25-news-photo-673048382-1553858586.jpg?crop=0.833xw:0.833xh;0.0765xw,0.0663xh&resize=980:*)
Malik is very famous, rich, with a perfect face and a height average to short, not short.
So yes, of course a man who is perfect in every aspect and with a not good height but still not disastrous too can find a girl like Gigi.
But the vast  majority of men (99%) are not that rich, handsome and famous, so if you don't have all of these and you have a not good height too, things do get very hard to find a good looking woman.

Taking Malik as an example of men on the shorter side (not really short still) is completely stupid because as I said, that dude is fking perfect in anything else that matters.
Still, if he wasn't rich and famous, many girls.would have rejected him due to his height while almost noone would have done it if he was taller than 1.80 (still without being rich amd famous).

Height is really important to a man and being short (1.70 and less) will make it almost impossible to find a good looking woman to be sxxually attracted to you.
If you are taller than that, then you can compensate with style, a good face, muscles etc ti a big degree and if you are over 1.80, there is no need to compensate for your height and all these (style, muscles etc) is a great plus for you.

Things, from my experience  and from being a short man to becoming an average one, are exactly like that.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 16, 2020, 07:30:50 AM
A (female) friend of mine recently said that she’d never date Dwayne Johnson because she thinks bald guys are unattractive. Does this prove that women, in general, cannot be attracted to bald guys? Nope.

Like baldness, short stature is certainly a disadvantage, but you can make up for it with a handsome face, great hair, etc. (the shorter you are, the more difficult it is, of course).

Do you know Zayn? He’s 5’7-8” and is dating Gigi Hadid. And I’m pretty sure she’s attracted to him.

(https://hips-hearstapps-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/gigi-hadid-and-zayn-malik-seen-out-in-manhattan-on-april-25-news-photo-673048382-1553858586.jpg?crop=0.833xw:0.833xh;0.0765xw,0.0663xh&resize=980:*)

1. Dwayne Johnson is bald by choice. Because of his ugly curly hair.

2. While it's true that bald is generally seen as less attractive. It's certainly nowhere near as big of a flaw as short stature is (When I say short stature I don't mean 5'7"-5'8", but more like 5'6" and under). A lot of women will still find tall masculine bald men sxxually worthy the way we will still be attracted to short-haired attractive women. While a lot of women won't even find short men 'fkable' the way we don't fat women. Even then, fat women will still have it easier to get laid because men are more desperate in general. In all likelihood, your female friend is no exception and will change her mind once she sees The Rock in real life.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: NotSoBigBadBruin on September 16, 2020, 08:40:08 AM
Taking Malik as an example of men on the shorter side (not really short still) is completely stupid because as I said, that dude is fking perfect in anything else that matters.
Still, if he wasn't rich and famous, many girls.would have rejected him due to his height while almost noone would have done it if he was taller than 1.80 (still without being rich amd famous).

You didn’t get my point, did you? The point I was trying to make is that you don’t necessarily have to be tall if you’re achingly handsome like Zayn, Neymar, Justin Bieber, Zac Efron, etc.

I’m pretty sure that 9 out of 10 women would date Zayn even if he weren’t rich and famous. By the way, why would Gigi care about his money? She’s fking loaded.

And even if she did care about money, why do you think she’s dating Zayn and not one of thousands of other men who are rich AND tall and are desperate to date a girl like her? Because Zayn has an achingly handsome face (and she probably likes his personality too).

And why do you think a guy like Zayn became rich and famous in the first place? There are millions of talented singers out there, and many of them are taller than Zayn. Again, because he has an achingly handsome face.

It seems like many users here don’t want to hear about “short“ guys who are still considered attractive by the majority of women, probably because it makes them realize that height is not the only reason why they’re not out there living like rockstars and dating supermodels.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 16, 2020, 08:47:53 AM
You didn’t get my point, did you? The point I was trying to make is that you don’t necessarily have to be tall if you’re achingly handsome like Zayn, Neymar, Justin Bieber, Zac Efron, etc.

I’m pretty sure that 9 out of 10 women would date Zayn even if he weren’t rich and famous. By the way, why would Gigi care about his money? She’s fking loaded.

And even if she did care about money, why do you think she’s dating Zayn and not one of thousands of other men who are rich AND tall and are desperate to date a girl like her? Because Zayn has an achingly handsome face (and she probably likes his personality too).

And why do you think a guy like Zayn became rich and famous in the first place? There are millions of talented singers out there, and many of them are taller than Zayn. Again, because he has an achingly handsome face.

It seems like many guys here don’t want to hear about “short“ guys who are still considered attractive by the majority of women, probably because it makes them realize that height is not the only reason why they’re not out there living like rockstars and dating supermodels.

I honestly can't think of any legit sxx symbol shorter than 5'8". Tom Cruise, Zac Efron, Mark Wahlberg.

Or anyone as short as 5'6". Dave Franco isn't really a sxx symbol, neither was Al Pacino. Alan Ladd possibly, but he stood on a box in the film  ;D
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: a on September 16, 2020, 10:11:32 AM
LOL Dave franco aint a sx symbol. %90 of the girls would smash him on the TV, if they comfronted irl literally %99 of  them would pass him.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: Body Builder on September 16, 2020, 12:10:45 PM
You didn’t get my point, did you? The point I was trying to make is that you don’t necessarily have to be tall if you’re achingly handsome like Zayn, Neymar, Justin Bieber, Zac Efron, etc.


I’m pretty sure that 9 out of 10 women would date Zayn even if he weren’t rich and famous. By the way, why would Gigi care about his money? She’s fking loaded.

And even if she did care about money, why do you think she’s dating Zayn and not one of thousands of other men who are rich AND tall and are desperate to date a girl like her? Because Zayn has an achingly handsome face (and she probably likes his personality too).

And why do you think a guy like Zayn became rich and famous in the first place? There are millions of talented singers out there, and many of them are taller than Zayn. Again, because he has an achingly handsome face.

It seems like many users here don’t want to hear about “short“ guys who are still considered attractive by the majority of women, probably because it makes them realize that height is not the only reason why they’re not out there living like rockstars and dating supermodels.
Gigi don't care about money but still she cares a lot about fame and of course she wouldn't date an average poor man.

And as I already said, 5.8 is not short, it is average to short. The difference is huge.

Finally no, I don't understand your point because there isn't one.
99,9 of men are not that handsome, rich and famous at the same time as Malik but that doesn't mean that many of them won't get laid with hot women.
But if they are not all these and at the same time they are short, then the vast majority of women won't be attracted to them the same way almost all men won't be attractive to a bad looking fat woman.

So Malik is not an example for a short man, first of all because he is not short and second because he has other traits that almost noone has, regardless of its height.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 16, 2020, 12:52:28 PM
LOL Dave franco aint a sx symbol. %90 of the girls would smash him on the TV, if they comfronted irl literally %99 of  them would pass him.

Al Pacino in the 70s-90s is probably the closest thing we have to a 5'6" male sxx symbol. If you watched Carlito's Way, you'd know.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: NotSoBigBadBruin on September 16, 2020, 06:15:10 PM
Gigi don't care about money but still she cares a lot about fame and of course she wouldn't date an average poor man.

And as I already said, 5.8 is not short, it is average to short. The difference is huge.

Finally no, I don't understand your point because there isn't one.
99,9 of men are not that handsome, rich and famous at the same time as Malik but that doesn't mean that many of them won't get laid with hot women.
But if they are not all these and at the same time they are short, then the vast majority of women won't be attracted to them the same way almost all men won't be attractive to a bad looking fat woman.

So Malik is not an example for a short man, first of all because he is not short and second because he has other traits that almost noone has, regardless of its height.

You need to read more carefully. I never said that a woman like Gigi Hadid will find you attractive if you’re short and have an average face. She may find you attractive, though, if you’re short (below average) and have an incredibly handsome face.

Gigi could be dating a much taller celebrity, yet she’s dating Zayn—because, and this is the point I’m trying to make, a 10/10 face can make up for a lack of height (provided that you’re not way below average).

Regardless of wealth or fame, exceptionally handsome guys like Zayn or Neymar will always be more popular with women than guys who are tall but have an average face, e.g., Chad Kroeger.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: IwannaBeTaller on September 16, 2020, 07:20:18 PM
Malik is very famous, rich, with a perfect face and a height average to short, not short.
So yes, of course a man who is perfect in every aspect and with a not good height but still not disastrous too can find a girl like Gigi.
But the vast  majority of men (99%) are not that rich, handsome and famous, so if you don't have all of these and you have a not good height too, things do get very hard to find a good looking woman.

Taking Malik as an example of men on the shorter side (not really short still) is completely stupid because as I said, that dude is fking perfect in anything else that matters.
Still, if he wasn't rich and famous, many girls.would have rejected him due to his height while almost noone would have done it if he was taller than 1.80 (still without being rich amd famous).

Height is really important to a man and being short (1.70 and less) will make it almost impossible to find a good looking woman to be sxxually attracted to you.
If you are taller than that, then you can compensate with style, a good face, muscles etc ti a big degree and if you are over 1.80, there is no need to compensate for your height and all these (style, muscles etc) is a great plus for you.

Things, from my experience  and from being a short man to becoming an average one, are exactly like that.

That dude and a perfect face? I would disagree my friend. His jawline looks pretty narrow for example, not really a super masculine look, not really super pretty either. Good looking, yes. Perfect, no. Francisco Lachowski is what a perfect face looks like.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: Body Builder on September 16, 2020, 10:43:15 PM
That dude and a perfect face? I would disagree my friend. His jawline looks pretty narrow for example, not really a super masculine look, not really super pretty either. Good looking, yes. Perfect, no. Francisco Lachowski is what a perfect face looks like.
It is not my opinion.
All these men look like kids, I can't think anyone as a man enough for what I think the ideal is.
But for women yes, they think he has a very very good looking face.

And the one you mentioned looks much worse and less masculine than Malik (I googled him).
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: IwannaBeTaller on September 17, 2020, 08:51:45 AM
Lachowski less good looking than Malik. Duuuuuuude. What planet do you live on. I can't take this seriously.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: a on September 17, 2020, 11:48:33 AM
I didnt read anything but according to the last comment I assume someone claimed that zayn is more good looking.

BULLSH177T. If you'd see them side to side irl Zayn would look like Lachowski's child LOL!
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: a on September 17, 2020, 11:50:40 AM
They have like 20cm height difference, fk the pictures. Lachowski would look manlier than any of us here irl.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: Body Builder on September 17, 2020, 01:08:08 PM
They have like 20cm height difference, fk the pictures. Lachowski would look manlier than any of us here irl.
I am talking about faces.

And no, a tall blonde sissy won't look manlier from a musclular , dark and average height man with a medium beard like me, thats for sure.
He may look more handsome for many women of course, but that guy has not manly characteristics for sure.

Malik has a much more better face. And he is very popular worldwide while I don't even know the other dude.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: ZUCC420 on September 17, 2020, 10:56:50 PM
I am talking about faces.

And no, a tall blonde sissy won't look manlier from a musclular , dark and average height man with a medium beard like me, thats for sure.
He may look more handsome for many women of course, but that guy has not manly characteristics for sure.

Malik has a much more better face. And he is very popular worldwide while I don't even know the other dude.

You come across as an insecure muscle bound fruitcake that's a regular subscriber of "Art of Manliness" self-help articles written to assuage men with fragile self-esteem issues whose having a midlife "masculinity" crisis, reads Rollo Tomassi's "Positive Masculinity" and Neil's "The Game" books on how to pick up women and keeps on pugnaciously self-aggrandizing like "brahhh dis skinny prettyboy ain't sh¡t standing next to ME and my BadBoi DARK TRIAD PERSONA" on the internet to complete strangers.

Stop comparing yourself to world-class male models and popular celebrities when you ain't sh¡t, just a nobody loser that spent thousands of dollars on a fringe barbaric surgery just to get to average height solely in order to be liked by women lmao.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: Body Builder on September 18, 2020, 12:24:21 AM
You come across as an insecure muscle bound fruitcake that's a regular subscriber of "Art of Manliness" self-help articles written to assuage men with fragile self-esteem issues whose having a midlife "masculinity" crisis, reads Rollo Tomassi's "Positive Masculinity" and Neil's "The Game" books on how to pick up women and keeps on pugnaciously self-aggrandizing like "brahhh dis skinny prettyboy ain't sh¡t standing next to ME and my BadBoi DARK TRIAD PERSONA" on the internet to complete strangers.

Stop comparing yourself to world-class male models and popular celebrities when you ain't sh¡t, just a nobody loser that spent thousands of dollars on a fringe barbaric surgery just to get to average height solely in order to be liked by women lmao.
As I said, I don't say I am more attractive to women than that blonde dude, but being manly is something different.
And someome with dark hair, beard, more mature face and some muscles is always more manly than these models who most of the times are even gays.
And I compared myself because the other guy said that noone of us here is as manly as that model, only because the later is 1.88 which is plain bs as being tall has nothing to do with being manly.
Scott Steiner (my avatar) is manly, not a skinny model with curly hair.

That said, if you think that LL is barbaric and for jerks, why are you here on the first place?
And second, some stupid sissies like you wouldn't have ever dared to say these bs in front of me. Because you would see who is the real loser, scumbag.
Title: Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
Post by: accountdeleted on September 19, 2020, 09:44:28 AM
As I said, I don't say I am more attractive to women than that blonde dude, but being manly is something different.
And someome with dark hair, beard, more mature face and some muscles is always more manly than these models who most of the times are even gays.
And I compared myself because the other guy said that noone of us here is as manly as that model, only because the later is 1.88 which is plain bs as being tall has nothing to do with being manly.
Scott Steiner (my avatar) is manly, not a skinny model with curly hair.

That said, if you think that LL is barbaric and for jerks, why are you here on the first place?
And second, some stupid sissies like you wouldn't have ever dared to say these bs in front of me. Because you would see who is the real loser, scumbag.

Would you be able to handle him in a fistfight?

Because as we all know, LL has permanently damaged your legs.