Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: Calic on October 06, 2013, 08:41:05 PM
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Since my diary on old forum seems to be gone and I got myself banned I will continue my diary here since I think there is still a lot of interest in how things are post LL. My experience with Dr. Sarin was positive with little pain and no major complications. Sweden has done an excellent job with his post-LL updating so I will try to do the same. I am still at the guest house for another month since I decided to stay longer to recover more.
Zip of my old forum dairy in HTML format
https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0Bx9uEct5EovhTDlxenBHNGQ2aUU
Here is a quick summary:
Info about me
From: USA
Age: 24
Armspan: 180 cm (5’11”)
Sitting height: 90 cm (35.5”)
Weight before LL: 73 kg (160 pounds)
Pants: 30”x30”
Height before LL: 170.8 cm (5’7.3”)
Height after LL: 178.4 cm (5’10.25”)
Lengthened amount: 6.5 cm (2.56”)
I found this a bit odd. I am guessing the additional height is due to spine decompression from being in bed for so long every day at the guest house.
Frames were put on 4/19/2013
I had two minor pin site infections.
I had numbness in a part of right leg and could not move my big toe and had difficulty moving my small toes so Dr. Sarin had me stop at 6.5 cm instead of 7 cm.
Frame removal on 7/26/2013
After frame removal I weighed 57 kg (125 pounds) and had about 5 cm (2”) of ballerina foot as well as some knee bending in my left knee.
I started standing 3 weeks after frame removal, walking using a walker with wheels at about 4 weeks, crutches at 5 weeks, hand crutches at 6 weeks, and at 7 weeks I could walk unassisted slowly and painfully with shoes on.
Right now I am 61 kg (134 pounds) and my ankles have a little bit above 90° range of motion.
Hospital video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqP6lxGFT34
Lengthening video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oux0Nw6g8Jw
Walking upstairs is easy but going downstairs is quite difficult. I lack the ankle range of motion and thigh strength to walk smoothly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgkD0Fxctp4
Walking barefoot feels okay and walking with shoes is easier with the slight lift of the heel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1-MJLDSi80
Guest house
The living conditions at the guest house are all still good. I am satisfied with the food, power, Internet, and having concerns addressed. Aftercare has significantly improved from a couple of months ago.
Current status
It takes a couple of minutes to get my feet flat in the morning or after not standing for a while. I can walk long distances unassisted upstairs or on a flat surface but I do not walk completely normal. Walking downstairs unassisted is still quite difficult. Right now I am focusing on exercises to build size and strength of thighs and gain further range of motion of my ankles.
X-ray from August 17th, 3 weeks after frame removal. The lengthening estimate on the gap is wrong, I did 6.5 cm
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/PostFrame1_zpsaf809c3f.jpg)
X-ray taken September 16th, 7 weeks after frame removal.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/PostFrame2_zps18e74ce1.jpg)
Proportions photos – I feel my torso looks a bit short but other than that I am happy with how I look. Tibia looks like it is about equal in length to femur so it is at the limit between looking normal and not normal. I am happy with how my tibia and femur look so stopping at 6.5 cm was just right.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/Standing1_zps774a07ab.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/Standing3_zps268aeeb6.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/Standing2_zps8601862f.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/TibiaFemur2_zps181c2a65.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/TibiaFemur3_zps03c05727.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/TibiaFemur1_zps6e0b09ec.jpg)
Photos of scars – Tibia and Fibula osteotomy sites look good. My Tibia osteotomy site is 2 lines and Dr. Sarin told me if he did not do the C shaped cut because it might have splintered my whole tibia bone. The inner knee, middle pin site, and IM nail insertion scars look the worst. My IM nail insertion scar developed into a keloid so it looks extra bad – I see other patients with scars that look much better.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/Scar1_zps3f5c678e.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/Scar2_zpsa72b01bf.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/Scar3_zps1d2f4865.jpg)
To the nked eye my alignment looks okay; my legs are straight as they should be.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/Alignment_zps226ba0ed.jpg)
Thoughts on a 2nd Surgery
I have mixed feelings about doing a 2nd surgery for an additional 4 cm. Some tell me to just go for the height if it means something to me and the amount I want is reasonable and is not going to be enough to matter and many others say I should not bother and I would be stretching my currently good proportions to the limit and be risking disproportion.
My gut feeling is to not do it. I think the sacrifice in proportion would not be worth the additional gain in height. Everyone says I look good as is, my tibias look good in relation to my femurs, and 5’10” is a good height. Personally I think my tibias look a bit longer than I would like but I think I still have a lot more muscle to build back before I can accurately judge. I still probably would have lengthened to 7 cm if I was able to. My tibias are longer than everyone else’s at the guest house who was near my starting height and I still think they look okay so I would recommend others to lengthen between 6 and 7 cm and not be worried. Perhaps later in my life I could top off my femurs with an additional 2.5 to 4 cm to even out my tibia and femur proportion and gain a tiny bit of height.
I am open to any questions or requests for photos or videos.
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Wow. That is awesome. You look great. You dont need a second procedure.
Tell us about how it was working with Dr Sarin. I think many here would appreciate an honest assessment from a guy who got a real surgery with him.
Was the guest house clean ? Were the staff responsive? Tell all!!!! ;D
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Your proportions look good as they are. If you feel comfortable with this height, there's no real need to go for 2nd Surgery. But if you do continue, you should do at least 5cm or it may not be worth the expenses and time.
Btw, don't do external on Femurs. Results of patients who did that is not good and it's alot of pain.
Speaking of that, how would you describe the level of pain you had? When do you expect to be walking without crutches?
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That's amazing. Walking unaided already and heels to the ground. I can't barely still do that when I wake up.
You think your tibias look longer bc your used to your old ones. It took me a couple of months to not think like that.
If you're going to do your femurs then at least do minimum 4,5cm.
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@TomD
I feel Dr. Sarin should spend more time with patients. I am sure a lot of the time problems are not severe but he should spend a bit more time explaining things and make patients feel like they are cared for. He almost always answers his phone and will be here if you have a problem you really think needs to be checked out right away. All of the patients here currently are doing okay and have no major problems.
The guest house is clean and the staff are responsive. Bed sheets are changed regularly, floors are swept and cleaned, pee bottles and trash emptied, and food trays removed.
The caretakers live here and have cell phones you can call to request anything you need done - being moved up and down stairs, laundry, retrieve items from the fridge, clean up messes, buy stuff from the market, or whatever.
@Carter
I would definitely do internals if I choose to do femurs. I am pretty worried about proportions so I will need to wait until I get my muscle back and do some mockups before I feel comfortable doing 5 cm more.
My level my pain was low throughout the whole process, I almost never took any painkillers. Physio, pin site infections, and moving around after 1st surgery did cause me substantial temporary pain though.
I no longer use crutches.
@Sweden
I am sure I will get used to them soon. I often wonder how much I could have lengthened and still been okay. My tibias are longer than everyone else's at the guest house so that had me scared to not lengthen too much.
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That's amazing. Walking unaided already and heels to the ground. I can't barely still do that when I wake up.
You think your tibias look longer bc your used to your old ones. It took me a couple of months to not think like that.
If you're going to do your femurs then at least do minimum 4,5cm.
Hey Sweden.
I hope the ballerina is getting better. We are all rooting for you. I miss your Hockey mask photos lol
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@TomD
I feel Dr. Sarin should spend more time with patients. I am sure a lot of the time problems are not severe but he should spend a bit more time explaining things and make patients feel like they are cared for. He almost always answers his phone and will be here if you have a problem you really think needs to be checked out right away. All of the patients here currently are doing okay and have no major problems.
The guest house is clean and the staff are responsive. Bed sheets are changed regularly, floors are swept and cleaned, pee bottles and trash emptied, and food trays removed.
The caretakers live here and have cell phones you can call to request anything you need done - being moved up and down stairs, laundry, retrieve items from the fridge, clean up messes, buy stuff from the market, or whatever.
That is good to know. So we can feel secure that the facility is good. If I am reading you right, Dr Sarin's 'bedside manor' needs improvement.
I want to try to confirm and dispel as much gossip as I can about Sarin. I know your story is only 1 guys opinion but its a first hand opinion. :)
Did he seem like he cared about you? Did he ignore your concerns like you were an idiot?
Did Dr Sarin try to up-sell you? With hold or try to charge for pain killers or other meds? Would he refuse x-rays as nonsense even though you were very concerned? If there was a complication, was he willing to fix it for free or did he try to haggle?
p.s. Did you meet Sysop in India ? If so PM me please.
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@TomD
I felt Dr. Sarin genuinely cared for me, he would always answer my calls or text messages right away or within a day. He never ignored any of my concerns but I never had any major concerns come up during my lengthening.
Dr. Sarin did not try to up-sell me anything and he stayed true to the package price including everything you need while staying here including fixing complications. Pain killers and meds are always available free to anyone who needs them. I do not think he refused x-rays to me or anyone and everyone goes for x-rays every 3 or 4 weeks anyway. Perhaps if you wanted more frequent x-rays you would need to convince him of a reason why.
Dr. Sarin fixed complications for patients for free without any haggling, I have seen many patients go to the hospital again for frame or pin adjustments or other issues with no trouble.
I did meet Sysop for about 5 minutes when he came to my room but I did not know at the time he was Apotheosis.
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Calic
Did the staff give you any special cream for your scars? They dont look bad at all . I have seen others who fade to the point where you would have to be looking at it to see it.
Are you still at the guest house?
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Thanks, I still think the scars don't look so good right now though. I have not been given any cream or anything for the scars and I have not done anything personally to try to improve them. With enough time they will fade and with the hair on my legs they probably will not be noticeable and I will not care. I might have the keloid scars cosmetically fixed up after I get my IM rods removed.
I am still at the guest house and will be here until the end of the month.
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Hey Calic,
Great to know you're doing fine and things are okay out there.
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Thanks for continuing your diary here. It's great to be able to hear honesty on this site rather than some ad showing us a tilted view. old forum is a commercial for the owner, to make commissions now. He keeps saying that there's nothing in it for him and that he's doing the site for free, as he sensors people that say anything conflicting with his commission.
Your proportions look great. I wouldn't go through the stress, risk, time to do it again, with such a great height and proportion. I think you look amazing. Congratulations!
I notice your ankles inward on both legs. I don't know if this is from weak muscles or if there's something for you to check out. Did you have this prior to LL? I'm concerned you're going to start to have pain issues form the ankle position.
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@Goodnews
Thanks. I have been told it is just weak muscles and it should fix itself eventually. I definitely did not have this issue before LL and my roommate who is at my stage of walking also has the same issue. My ankles do not hurt when I walk so it is not as painful as it looks.
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Calic, can you make your legs completely straight at your knees?
It seems like you legs are always bent at your knees. (like you're folding them there)
In the last pic, your knees look pointed inwards.
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Calic, your proportions look good as well as your walking in the stairs -- you definitely recovering faster than others that I know. Tell me, how much ballerina do you currently have? Do you have any pain when you sit and cross your legs? How about when you squat?
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@short_and_depressed
Yes, I can make them straight. I do agree it looks like I am bending them but that is the normal relaxed state for me, not sure if it is normal or not?
My knees, especially the right knee, do point inwards slightly. I was told it was just lack of muscle size and strength that causes this so it should correct itself with time.
@Leonardo2013
I do not consider myself to have any ballerina. Within a few minutes of standing in the morning I can get my heels flat on the floor no problem and for the rest of the day I am okay. I have more than 90° range of motion but I am still far from normal.
There is no pain when I am sitting and crossing my legs. I am unable to squat much at all, I simply lack enough range of motion of my ankles and leg strength to do it.
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This what you call "AN ALMOST PERFECT JOURNEY" ... Well done dude, you look great and you seem to recover faster than the average patient ... my advice will be to forget about a second surgery and to start enjoying your new height/life instead!
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Very good job Calic!!
I still suffer a lot from ballerina and my feet aren't really fully down yet, 6 months post frame removal now.
Your callus looks like it was more than a year since first surgery. Are you Superman?
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Wow. This is a great diary. You are an inspiration to us all Calic !!!!
:)
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Calic, I got me a pair of 5cm heel lifts for my snickers and stood in front of the mirror and it looks like it makes quite a difference, so I'm thinking of doing only 6cm. From your experience and everything you've gone through, do you think it's worth it to lengthen only this amount? BTW, approximately how many mm do you lose after frame removal? Thank you.
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Your callus looks like it was more than a year since first surgery. Are you Superman?
Haha, thanks. Actually DEM is having a faster recovery than I had. He lengthened 7.5 cm and is getting is ballerina down and walking with crutches quicker than I was. He even did a little bit of walking without crutches several days ago. I will get after him to do an update in his diary.
@Leonardo2013
Yes, anything between 6 and 7.5 cm is ideal. I think most people can lengthen 7 cm on their tibias and they will still look normal to anybody who is not aware you had leg lengthening.
I do not think you lose any mm after frame removal. The rod is locked in place with screws before the frame is removed so I do not think this should happen.
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Hey, Calic -- what do you know of Captain? I knew he lengthened the same amount as you did, but do you know how his recovery is? Thanks!
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Calic and I went out to the mall yesterday and he was able to walk/stand for 2-3 hours straight totally unsupported.
My goal is to be in his condition by the time I leave in 20 days so I walk home unassisted. I have a long 24+ hour flight with layover plus a large luggage so my legs need to build up this level of endurance.
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Hey, Calic -- what do you know of Captain? I knew he lengthened the same amount as you did, but do you know how his recovery is? Thanks!
I am not sure but I heard from others that he is not walking yet since he is so heavy he needs a lot of callus before he can safely do it. I am not sure what the status is on his foot.
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Calic what are your thoughts on
1. Sarin horror stories
2. Dr jamal / jamal nail?
3. censorship from old forum
4. censorship from Sarin?
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Calic what are your thoughts on
1. Sarin horror stories
2. Dr jamal / jamal nail?
3. censorship from old forum
4. censorship from Sarin?
I do not know of any horror stories. There are patients who have had problems but since they have left I am unaware of their current status.
I have not looked up much information on Dr. Jamal or the nail but he seems like he might be a cost effective alternative to the HLN for internal femurs. I might consider going to him in 2014 if I choose to do my femurs.
I think it is cool Sysop wants to push LL forward but the way he is going about it is wrong. Promoting a fake diary for an inexperienced doctor and removing all traces of Dr. Sarin without any legitimate reason is not right.
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I have not looked up much information on Dr. Jamal or the nail but he seems like he might be a cost effective alternative to the HLN for internal femurs. I might consider going to him in 2014 if I choose to do my femurs.
I wish we could find some testimonials or diary's for the guy. It does seem like a good alternative for internals. Perhaps we should all try to do some research and see what we come up with.
:)
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So, for working class people like myself, what are the least expensive BUT safe options out there? Some one mentioned Dr Sarin increased his price -- does anyone know by how much? Thank you!
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His pushing is what I believe led Dr. Sarin rush to use the HLN (which of course pissed off Sysop) and the only person to use it got a deep bone infection and his status is currently unknown.
Has that "deep bone nnfection" been confirmed or mentioned by anyone else other than Syop/Apotheosis?
Maybe i missed a few posts that did.
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Has that "deep bone nnfection" been confirmed or mentioned by anyone else other than Syop/Apotheosis?
Maybe i missed a few posts that did.
I was roommates with the HLN patient for most of my lengthening and I am still in contact with him by email. He had the infection pretty much the entirety of his lengthening and after going back home he had to have the infected rod and screws removed and he also had an infection around the site the hydraulic hose went in.
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So that was a mistake *during* the operation? I don't think infections can occur with internal methods after the operation.
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That sort of infections sounds very serious. Do you if he' going to be okay? What country is he being treated in, to treat the infection? Pathetic that there's no mention of this on the other website.
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Well I hope the guy is ok. :o
Is there any way for him to come here and tell his tale? :)
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I am not sure of how or when the infection started. He is being treated in the US and should be okay.
He always had a strong dislike for old forum and never wanted to post anything about his situation. I doubt he would have any interest in coming here and probably just wants to be done with anything related to LL and move on with his life.
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So that was a mistake *during* the operation? I don't think infections can occur with internal methods after the operation.
I agree with you.
Like Sweden said, the guy was sick from the beginning. if i remeber right, he was not 100% healthy before he did his internal LL. I think he had issues from the external LL that he was also doing at the same time. I dont think he was the right patient for a nail that was having its first reputation in the spot light.
Its hard to issolate the issues of the nail and the patient in this case.
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How are things going since your last update? All the best!
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I am back home from the guest house, I came home about a week ago. The initial reaction from my parents and brother was that I was skinnier, they did not notice the height gain first. I have not left the house to meet anyone else I know yet so I will update on reactions from other people later.
The biggest obstacle for me right now is ankle pain and tightness of the shins like shin splints back when I ran track in high school. This only occurs after doing a significant amount of walking. When I wake up in the morning my feet are flat but I feel a lot of tightness for a few minutes but then I am normal. I can walk long distances without too much. I will post a video of me walking later.
Shockingly I measured my morning height at 179.7 cm (5'10.75") and my night time height before going to bed to be 177.2 cm (5'9.75") so my height goes down an inch throughout the day. I now weigh 68 kg (150 pounds).
X-rays were taken on October 25th, about 3 months after frame removal. I wanted to get a length estimate on the lateral view but was told my callus was too filled in to get an accurate measurement. I was curious to know the amount I lengthened but I was able to hit 5’10” so I am happy and it is not really important to me. I will just say I lengthened 6.5 cm because that is what Dr. Sarin told me before frame removal.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/3MonthAPV_zps69b2208e.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/3MonthLateral_zps2788ec07.jpg)
Some before and after photos:
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/Beforeu_zps27c2e04d.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/After1_zps36889fba.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/Beforec_zps30b1396e.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/After2_zpsbceab78f.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/Before2_zps9797347c.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/After3_zps446964dd.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/Beforesit_zps01057906.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/After4_zpsb66f26b5.jpg)
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The biggest obstacle for me right now is ankle pain and tightness of the shins like shin splints back when I ran track in high school. This only occurs after doing a significant amount of walking. When I wake up in the morning my feet are flat but I feel a lot of tightness for a few minutes but then I am normal. I can walk long distances without too much. I will post a video of me walking later.
Sounds like you're doing great! All your symptoms are the same as I had but a little less severe. I think you'll make an excellent recovery over the coming months/years. Your legs look awesome too. If anything they looked short before and now they look normal.
So, what is your opinion of "Bad Doctor" now that you're out of India and not supposedly being threatened by him anymore? I hope this exposes Apotheosis aka SysOp's true motives for what he says about Dr. Sarin.
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Thanks, I feel like I will be making a swift recovery.
My opinion is that he genuinely cares for his patients and is fair about everything. He was always nice and respectful towards me. If I ever decide to do my femurs I will probably go back to him to have them done.
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You look so much better mate.
You legs before LL were way too short for ur upper body.
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Buddy you look great, the only thing you need to do is gain some muscles on your legs :) Besides that youre doing very well. :)
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You look good Calic!
Thank you for updating us on your situation!
I read a lot of the Sarin diaries and if I was ready to do LL this year I would have been at the guesthouse with you guys.
Do you talk with the other guys from the guesthouse who had diaries on the other site? It would be great to get an update on how they are doing.
I am glad to hear that you are doing well and hope you are enjoying the new height.
BH
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Bingo buddy!!!
You look great dude, and as we know already since the guesthouse, your recovery is just going amazing!!!
As for me, I think I will get my frames off next week ... my last X-rays yesterday show 8.3 cm lengthening (after 3 months & 1 week of lengthening) but I will wait to get this confirmed by Dr Sarin before frames removal. My aim was between 7.5 - 8 cm - so if confirmed, this will be great.
Best of luck buddy and keep us updated!
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Well done.
I'm 7 months post frame removal and still have lots of difficulties in my ankles, X-legs and flexibility issues.
Great to see you're back home!
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Sweden I don't think you have x-legs.
Did you read Craig49's diary?
He had x-legs.
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You look amazing. Congrats!
On another subject because I don't know where to post it-- this is to Sweden: Could you tell OldiebutGoodie about this site? I see that he can no longer post on the other site. I guess it's so corrupt over there, that he gives an accurate diary about Betz, he's cut off. It makes that site so false that it no longer has any value to read. OBG had a great diary, seems like a great guy, needs support, is sharing honestly with all of us and he's unable to log in from what you mentioned. Maybe he'd be willing to continue his diary on this site, if you let him know about this site. Hope your doing well Sweden.
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Calic, you look great. Any more height and I think you would've look out of proportion. Your legs now look long... By just looking at your pictures, if I were to just guess how many cms you lengthened, I would have to say 7 - 7.5cm. I've seen pictures of other people who have lengthened 6 - 6.5cm and their legs are not as long as yours. I hope your recovery goes well and enjoy your new height.
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Bingo buddy!!!
You look great dude, and as we know already since the guesthouse, your recovery is just going amazing!!!
As for me, I think I will get my frames off next week ... my last X-rays yesterday show 8.3 cm lengthening (after 3 months & 1 week of lengthening) but I will wait to get this confirmed by Dr Sarin before frames removal. My aim was between 7.5 - 8 cm - so if confirmed, this will be great.
Best of luck buddy and keep us updated!
Hey krin0610,
Can you please post a diary here? We would love to know about your experiences.
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Calic, you look great. Any more height and I think you would've look out of proportion. Your legs now look long... By just looking at your pictures, if I were to just guess how many cms you lengthened, I would have to say 7 - 7.5cm. I've seen pictures of other people who have lengthened 6 - 6.5cm and their legs are not as long as yours. I hope your recovery goes well and enjoy your new height.
He looks good .i think his recovery is very good.
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Do you talk with the other guys from the guesthouse who had diaries on the other site? It would be great to get an update on how they are doing.
I have only been staying in touch with a couple of people since they have left the guest house and they are okay and should expect to recover well. I think most people just want to get on with their lives and or not be involved after all the old forum stuff happened.
I am thinking less and less about doing a second LL. Personally, it looks to me like I am borderline out of proportion right now and an additional 4 cm may be just too much and not really be of much benefit anyway since I am currently 5'10". I might post some mock-ups and try wearing some lifts to simulate a 4 cm gain to see how I would feel and if I would be happy or not with how I look.
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Hey krin0610,
Can you please post a diary here? We would love to know about your experiences.
Hey,
I would be very happy to answer questions & queries but not sure about starting a diary unfortunately - sorry.
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On another subject because I don't know where to post it-- this is to Sweden: Could you tell OldiebutGoodie about this site? I see that he can no longer post on the other site. I guess it's so corrupt over there, that he gives an accurate diary about Betz, he's cut off. It makes that site so false that it no longer has any value to read. OBG had a great diary, seems like a great guy, needs support, is sharing honestly with all of us and he's unable to log in from what you mentioned. Maybe he'd be willing to continue his diary on this site, if you let him know about this site. Hope your doing well Sweden.
I know about this site and I come here frequently. I like it better than the old forum (you know why). For some miracle reasons I have access again to the old forum so I will continue my diary there because I started it there...
Sorry Calic, for hijacking your nice diary with this stuff which doesn´t belong here, I just felt like I had to quickly write this...
OBG
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3 months for 6,5 cm.
That's slower than 1mm/day.
Please explain what made it so slow?
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I slowed down when I had some temporary aching pain in the mornings and pain in the pin sites. I also had a bad pin site infection and the doctor wanted me to stop for several days.
Here is my LL spreadsheet. I got a bit lazy at the end and stopped updating the pain level. I mostly only had pain while moving, doing physical therapy, and the pin site infections. I did not have any pain from the lengthening itself except for a couple of days in the middle.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/LLChart_zps862431f1.jpg~original)
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How re you doing now :)?
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I feel I am improving with each passing day with less stiffness in the morning and less pain when walking a lot during the day. The area of numbness I had on my right ankle is gone and the twinges I sometimes felt in my toes when walking downstairs is gone too.
I decided to tell some of my extended family at Thanksgiving about my LL. This part of my family consists of good, caring, non-judgemental people so I was not too worried about a negative reaction. My uncle is 5’11”, aunt is 5’4”, one cousin is 5’8”, and the other cousin is 6’ and his wife 5’10”.
I asked if anyone noticed anything different about me – nobody picked up on it. They did say they noticed me being skinnier than normal but not taller. I asked the 5’8” cousin about him not noticing me being taller than him now and he said it was probably because it had been so long (11 months) since he saw me. When I stood up later and walked around everyone said I looked taller than they remember.
All of them were surprised by what I did and did not know LL existed. Each of them asked me questions which basically consisted of most of the questions in the FAQ on LL Forum and old forum . My response as to why I had LL done was that it was a dream of mine to be taller and I felt that it would improve my life and bring me happiness. My aunt responded saying everybody has something about themselves they do not like and they want to change and the idea behind LL is no different than any other cosmetic procedure.
I was asked if I had to buy new pants with a higher inseam and I told everyone yes I just bought new pants with a 32” inseam. I told them my legs were already long to begin with and now they were extra-long and showed my proportions (my shirt was tucked in and I was not wearing shoes) and everyone agreed I looked good.
I sat down at the table with my 6’ cousin who also wears a 32” inseam and he was definitely 5 or 6 cm taller than me sitting down which makes me feel like doing a 2nd LL would be a bad idea. I am thinking less and less of doing a 2nd LL.
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What a nice post-lengthening update. :) Sounds good. Keep it up!
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Hi Calic. Congrats on your successful LL! You really look awesome now, bad on your uploaded pics! 8) I'd never guess you even had LL. How many pins did you have in each leg total? Does 6.5CM seem like a big difference? Awesome diary and videos btw. Very informative!
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Hi Calic. Congrats on your successful LL! You really look awesome now, bad on your uploaded pics! 8) I'd never guess you even had LL. How many pins did you have in each leg total? Does 6.5CM seem like a big difference? Awesome diary and videos btw. Very informative!
I had 5 pins total on each leg that went straight through my leg. I was among the last of the patients to have the middle pins and I kind of wish I did not have them as the pin cutting scars are more noticeable on the middle of the tibia than the top or bottom. Also, other patients started having the half pin that only went partially in to their leg near the knee so they had no pin site at the back of their knee - this would have been really nice to have. When I had an infection in the pin site at the back of the knee my mobility went way down and it was very painful to move.
6.5 cm is a big difference - I see new things in my house since my eye level is a lot higher up and compared to my Dad and Mom I am a lot taller than them now instead of just slightly taller. I do not feel short anymore when going out in public, I truly feel I am average height now.
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That's great to hear!!
Funny about the pants. All of my old pants still fit just like they did before. Maybe I lost too much muscles bc the ones that were tight still feel little loose.
So you had the guts to tell them. Good for you.
I wish I never said anything. So many people make fun out of my elephant story and all over Sweden wherever I go someone has heard it from someone.
Good to hear someone who can admit that those who are taller has taller sitting height instead of claiming they are "within proportions" after lengthening 20cm. It bugs the hell out of me how blind some people seem to be.
Next month you are so used to your new height that you barely remember what it felt like before.
My greatest memory was when I walked with Harry on crutches for the first time on toes and I was more than 2 heads taller than him! :)
I almost bumped my head in to the upper edge of the door whole. Amazing feeling.
I'm impressed by your x-rays. I'm having new ones this Thursday. Hoping its as good as yours.
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Funny about the pants. All of my old pants still fit just like they did before. Maybe I lost too much muscles bc the ones that were tight still feel little loose.
Good to hear someone who can admit that those who are taller has taller sitting height instead of claiming they are "within proportions" after lengthening 20cm. It bugs the hell out of me how blind some people seem to be.
My greatest memory was when I walked with Harry on crutches for the first time on toes and I was more than 2 heads taller than him! :)
Sweden, what inseam do you wear? It is interesting you did 3 inches and do not need longer pants. I did 2.5 inches and my 30” inseam pants just barely cover my socks when I am in shoes, I need 32”s now.
My calf muscles are continuously getting larger just like yours, I am curious how big they will get. I am sure you saw craig49's calves when he visited the guesthouse? They were gigantic! I wonder if mine will get big like his.
I remember my first time standing up and moving around after frame removal. I felt tall since most other LL patients were equal or shorter than me and all of the Indian staff was a lot shorter than me. I was also at eye level with Dr. Sarin who I thought looked a lot taller than me before LL. Now that I am back in the US I feel pretty average now but I am a lot happier than I was before. I feel I am in a similar situation with you as far as proportions - I want another LL to be above average height but I know my torso will be really short compared to others at around 6'.
Sysop/Apotheosis proportions
I was not able to get a clear analysis of sysop's proportions when he visited my room for couple of minutes (I did not know he was Apotheosis at the time) but other people I spoke to in the guest house that he did visit with for awhile said he looked strange. Zero told me when he sat down his legs went way out and were crazy long. 7cmwithsarin thought his arms looked short and Captain America told me he thought his torso looked noticeably shorter than it should be when he was sitting across from him and his hands looked like they belonged to a stocky 5’7” guy and not a 6’3” guy. Captain America also pointed out he seemed to always make sure his shirt was hanging down like he was insecure of his porportions. Personally, I did not pick up on his arms being short or hands being small and I could not see his torso as he had his shirt out and was standing the whole time I saw him.
I remember reading some of the stuff posted by sysop/apotheosis that was just ridiculous like his thread "A Treatise On Torso Length" where he made a claim along the lines that he has seen 5'2" guys with a similar torso length as guys who were 6'3" and in his thread "Why Torso Length Doesn't Matter, But Arm Length Does" that your wingspan is really what limits how far you can lengthen. Torso length and width most definitely matters just as much as your wingspan. Even if your torso length is similar to someone who is taller, the taller person is probably wider and and proportionately larger overall.
Today I went to the dentist for a routine cleaning and I was sitting in the chair when he came in and he told me I looked taller. I don't think he saw me on the way in. His height is about 5'6" and he has been my dentist since I was a little kid. I am surprised he picked up on it immediately when my other family did not at all. I just gave him a puzzled look and and said "really?" and he dropped it.
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Hi Calic; how was the circumstances in the guesthouse? Was it bad like the stories they've been telling us?
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Hi Calic; how was the circumstances in the guesthouse? Was it bad like the stories they've been telling us?
I have read all of the Dr. Sarin diaries on old forum and LL Forum and regularly spoke to the other patients while I was there and can confirm they are a fairly accurate depiction of what goes on at the guest house.
Everyone who had LL with Dr. Sarin had a unique experience. Some had a very difficult time and others like me had a very easy time which should be expected for any LL doctor. Not everyone will have a good experience with a good doctor or a bad experience with a bad doctor.
Overall, I would say Dr. Sarin does care for his patients and is skilled enough that nobody who goes to him will end up permanently crippled. I did feel the patient care there was rocky at times but nobody is careless enough to let anything life threatening happen to you.
I am still in contact with many of the patients I had LL with who’s condition was not great when leaving so I will need to wait and see how everything turns out for them but I do not think any of them will suffer from any permanent problems.
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Thanks for that, Calic. I think there's a lot of anti-Sarin propaganda on these forums and it's difficult to distinguish the truth from the rubbish when new accounts appear from nowhere. They could be genuine patients or they could be Crazy+6 being the scumbag he is.
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I calic, what about the hygiene and good in the guesthouse? Do they treat u well?
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I calic, what about the hygiene and good in the guesthouse? Do they treat u well?
Hygiene was good. Floors were swept and mopped daily, bed sheets were changed every couple of days, and you could call the caretakers to change your sheets or clean up any messes any time.
I assume you were asking about the food? It was good - most of it was some variation of chicken and rice and sometimes pasta. Fresh fruit, flavored yogurt, or a small chocolate bar was sometimes provided as well. The menu remained the same each week so it did get monotonous and definitely needed some variety and stuff added to it.
There were plenty of local places that you could order food from for free delivery although it was expensive, the same or more than US prices. Dominos and McDonalds were good and had the option of placing orders online. Pizza hut, dunkin donuts, and many other places were easy to order from and they spoke English.
The caretakers were always nice and did not intentionally cause any trouble with anyone. Sometimes they did lack some common sense with methods of cleaning or doing things which resulted in a couple of good laughs or frustration but they did not mean any harm.
Dr. Sarin and the managers were generally nice and respectful towards everyone but there were some incidents where they did not treat patients the best which you can read about in mmm_native's diary.
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Yep, food :P.
Thanks btw!
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Oh, how long has it been since the frames has been removed and are you able to walk (normal)?
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Calic had frame removal in July.
My qualified guess would be that he is walking close to perfect by now.
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I just looked in my jeans I mostly wear. They are Hugo Boss 33/34 so 33 wide and 34 long.
They were too long from the beginning but just a little tight I remember. They were some kind of exclusive so I had to have them and I figured I was going to be taller so why not.
I usually wear 32/32.
Today the jeans are loose fit but get stuck on my huge calfs when I try to take them off. They are still too long so I need to fold them.
Not sure if that looks stupid(?)!
It's difficult to build back my huge thighs that made the jeans tight.
Today I pressed 100kg/250pounds in the leg press but it did hurt in my left knee after 4 tries.
If try more than 40kg/100pounds in the leg extension my patellar tendon hurt real bad. I'm thinking of trying to eat Tramadol one day and try to press myself to the maximum of what my muscles can take.
I had x-rays last week and my doctor(head orthopedic surgeon of Swedens orthopedic Center in Uppsala, so he has to fly across the country to see me) told me that as from 1 of January I am fully healed and only need PT to work on my flexibility in my ankles. So I was discharged from any follow up now.
He said my bones are around 95% fully healed and everything looks very good. It looks like one of the most successful leg lengthening he has seen.
He has mostly met patients from Ukraine (Dr Kutsenko probably) with disastrous outcome. They need several surgeries when they come back to Sweden and can never run ever again.
That's why he told me back in August I should be prepared to never be able to run ever again.
It's nice to know you did good at Dr Sarins place.
I could actually consider Dr Sarin for my femurs too if I decide to do it some day.
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Hey i m not trying to be rude or something but i don't know what you guys see in Dr Sarin .
you guys were there at the guest house for a long time and you guys know what exactly happend .
i mean about the complications and sufferng but still you guys recommend Dr Sarin.
i m that mongoloid guy from india .
only you two are in favour of Dr Sarin out of all the other patients.
i mean i respect your opinion.
If you two guys are well and recovered dosen't mean he is a good doctor.
What about all the other patients who are still suffering like
the canadain guy who did cross lengthening
the australian guy who did 9 cm in 3 months with massive ballerina
and many other patients ... anyway i wrote what i felt is right .
Dr Sarin is not a good doctor at all , he has no moral , no ethics.
and most importantly he is no qualified to perform Limb lengthening surgery.
he is just doing it for the money .
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Hey Calic. I hope you are doing well. I was wondering if you'd ever experienced any knee pain/stiffness for having nails inserted into your tibiae during LON. If so, how long did it take for the pain to go away, or do you still have it? Also, can you move your little toes now? If so, how long did it take for you to get motion back?
Thanks, and have a happy New Year!
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Hey Calic. I hope you are doing well. I was wondering if you'd ever experienced any knee pain/stiffness for having nails inserted into your tibiae during LON. If so, how long did it take for the pain to go away, or do you still have it? Also, can you move your little toes now? If so, how long did it take for you to get motion back?
Thanks, and have a happy New Year!
I had pain and stiffness in the knees when my frames were on and a few months after removal. Now when I am sitting on my knees I feel pain in my left knee but it has been going away slowly. Aside from that I have not had any other knee pain. I can walk, squat, and kneel without knee pain.
Yes, I can move my toes well now. Immediately after frame removal I could move them better and within a few months I had full motion of my toes.
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i mean about the complications and sufferng but still you guys recommend Dr Sarin.
I would recommend Dr. Sarin only if there was no other way you could afford a more expensive doctor and one should expect satisfactory care there but not great care. I have definitely seen a lot of questionable things happen while I was there.
I would recommend going to Russia or China over India since those clinics are much more established and experienced.
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Hi Calic!
New member here. Glad to know you had such a smooth LL journey. Congrats! I am actually flying to India next week to have surgery with Dr. Sarin. NOT LL, though. I'm having leg shortening, which expects to have very fewer complications than LL, as it just mimics healing of a simple broken bone. I'm only staying there for 6 weeks too which I'm really happy about.
I was wondering if there were any female patients at the guesthouse while you were there? (Sweden: was Taller2Smaller2013 a leg shorting patient?) I am a girl, and I haven't read any female patient diaries. Would you say the guesthouse is a safe place for a female patient? No creepy male caretakers? lol.
I don't plan on even leaving the guesthouse to go out in town, as India is not a safe place for women right now. So any thoughts or advice would really help my nerves ;D
I have to say I like this forum better than old forum . SysOp won't even make me a real member so I can PM Sarin patients because he thinks I want LL, even though I said I wasn't going for that.
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There's a female patient at Sarin's there right now, and she hasn't complained of feeling unsafe. They have her staying separate from the others, but she can still go see them if she wants. Maybe you'll be put together with her.
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Hi Calic!
I was wondering if there were any female patients at the guesthouse while you were there? (Sweden: was Taller2Smaller2013 a leg shorting patient?) I am a girl, and I haven't read any female patient diaries. Would you say the guesthouse is a safe place for a female patient? No creepy male caretakers? lol.
There were 2 female patients at the guest house when I was there. There were no significant problems while they were there. I think the guest house is definitely a safe place for a female patient. The caretakers were nice and well behaved :)
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There's a female patient at Sarin's there right now, and she hasn't complained of feeling unsafe. They have her staying separate from the others, but she can still go see them if she wants. Maybe you'll be put together with her.
There were 2 female patients at the guest house when I was there. There were no significant problems while they were there. I think the guest house is definitely a safe place for a female patient. The caretakers were nice and well behaved :)
Awesome! Good to know thanks guys :) I was praying I wouldn't be the first girl ever to be there haha.
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How tall are you now?
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I'm touching 5'6". I know for some that might not be alot to whine about, but we all have our own unique issues.
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I'm touching 5'6". I know for some that might not be alot to whine about, but we all have our own unique issues.
Wait, so you're getting leg shortening done for aesthetic reasons? 5'6" is such an awesome height for a woman. It's like *perfect* in my eyes.
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Oh and olivetree, don't forget to look at mmn_native's diary/video about Dr. Sarin's place before you decide upon this.
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Wait, so you're getting leg shortening done for aesthetic reasons? 5'6" is such an awesome height for a woman. It's like *perfect* in my eyes.
Well thank you. I know some girls would kill for my height, but honestly it's always made me uncomfortable. Height neurosis can happen to anyone. What's perfect for some is not for others. I think in a past life I was a tiny Japanese chick lol. I'm not doing that much tho. I could go into detail but i don't want to hijack Calic's diary. And I don't think people would be that interested in a crazy leg shortening girl ::)
I have read mmm_native's diary. He's got a lot of stuff going on with him unlike me, and I'm staying there for a shorter time with a less complicated surgery so I'm not trying to worry too much.
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I'm speechless. :-X
I'll start a new thread later today regarding this insanity.
Calic: how are you doing?
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Well thank you. I know some girls would kill for my height, but honestly it's always made me uncomfortable. Height neurosis can happen to anyone. What's perfect for some is not for others. I think in a past life I was a tiny Japanese chick lol. I'm not doing that much tho. I could go into detail but i don't want to hijack Calic's diary. And I don't think people would be that interested in a crazy leg shortening girl ::)
I have read mmm_native's diary. He's got a lot of stuff going on with him unlike me, and I'm staying there for a shorter time with a less complicated surgery so I'm not trying to worry too much.
You remind me of the sister at Sarin's guesthouse who also underwent height shortening surgery. Being tall wasn't her cup of tea. My room was on top of the house and every evening she would to come the roof to gaze out at the horizon. The image of her back still sticks to my mind. She was extremely unhappy. I was incapacitated at that time, but I wished I could tell her that she was already 100% lovely. Don't change. ><
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Aw :') no one should have to change who they are. But safe to say everyone on these forums knows being your true self is harder than it seems.
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I could go into detail but i don't want to hijack Calic's diary. And I don't think people would be that interested in a crazy leg shortening girl ::)
Please elaborate I would be very interested in hearing how you came to the decision to have leg shortening. I won't judge you :) Be careful though, the leg shortening girl and her brother on old forum started a diary and got so much flak from everyone they had it removed.
Calic: how are you doing?
Doing well. I still feel a long way from how I was before LL but I am improving slowly.
I told a bunch more people about my LL. I went to visit an old friend and told some of his friends and people he knew about my LL. The typical response from everyone both short and tall is that it was cool but nobody really asked many questions about or seemed interested in it. I tried to talk to my friend who is 6'1" and his other friends who were tall as well about height discrimination and none of them understood - they were all blind to the social advantage their height gives them. There was one guy who was 5'10" that was very interested and excited about my LL and asked me a ton of questions. He quoted a few studies on height too - he was the only one who had any idea about the value of height in our society.
So far only 1 family member has noticed my height increase. My 93 year old aunt who I did not tell about my LL, she just looked at me and said "you seem taller".
It seems to me that most people do not really care about their height or the height of others. All of this makes me feel like I have something psychologically wrong with myself to think my lack of height had a negative effect on my life and had to resort to LL to change it. On old forum I see a lot of people stating LL gave a huge boost to their self confidence. Personally, I do not feel any different about myself after LL. The only thing that is different is that I do not think about LL or height much anymore.
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Personally, I do not feel any different about myself after LL. The only thing that is different is that I do not think about LL or height much anymore.
Not thinking about it itself is already a big change mate!
Keep it up and stay strong.
Tx
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Not thinking about it itself is already a big change mate!
True, I have peace of mind knowing my height will never negatively effect anything in my life.
How are things at the guest house?
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It seems to me that most people do not really care about their height or the height of others. All of this makes me feel like I have something psychologically wrong with myself to think my lack of height had a negative effect on my life and had to resort to LL to change it. On old forum I see a lot of people stating LL gave a huge boost to their self confidence. Personally, I do not feel any different about myself after LL. The only thing that is different is that I do not think about LL or height much anymore.
Hey Calic,
I'm glad that you are overcoming the superficial stigma that got us all obsess over this LL in the first place. Beside attracting girls, I don't see much advantage to being physically tall in this day and age. I think it's all about confident. I think being short really affects your psycho and that's it. And it's this psychology that cost us 4-6 months of our lives, lots of pain and suffering, 23k (including air ticket and other travel expense) and our health to go all the way to India for LL.
Actually, most short guys I know don't really care about their height. If you don't care about attracting girls, being short has its own advantage. When I watch a fight, I always root for the smaller guy. Being short is powerful in its own way because you are being seen as as underdog. And people always root for the underdog.
When I came back to work in July, I brought a case to the union against my manager because she was restricting my rights due to my disability. She thought about it for a week, and brought a list of things to charge against me. Even before the dispute, she personally told me that I acted angrily and that frightened her. WTF. She was trying to use the woman card.
Unfortunately for her, she was 5'11 and obese, over 400lb. And me, my sitting height as you know was only 58-59cm and I just came back from a starvation in India. She was towering over me, like David vs. Goliath. The union and the company sided with me and throw out her case. Within 1 month, I switched department.
Having said all this, I'm going through with my femur LL plan within 10 months. I'm happy to hear that you are recovering well and don't think about your height anymore... this is especially important since your legs are already really long. Keep us posted on your recovery!!
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Please elaborate I would be very interested in hearing how you came to the decision to have leg shortening. I won't judge you :) Be careful though, the leg shortening girl and her brother on old forum started a diary and got so much flak from everyone they had it removed.
Thank you for not judging me!:) You're the only person in the world lol. The only other person who knows is my ex, and he's a reason that drove me to it. I don't know about a diary, especially if that girl got shunned by everyone. I don't think people would be open minded..maybe even offended by the concept :/
I have another inquiry though. While at the guesthouse how do you go about taking a shower? Especially right after surgery with all the restricted mobility and weight bearing? Do you have to sit down? Can the frames get wet? My bad if this is a stupid or obvious question. I've just never seen anything in the diaries about the adventures of showering while leg lengthening. lol
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True, I have peace of mind knowing my height will never negatively effect anything in my life.
How are things at the guest house?
Cool here dude, thanks! Since you left I think we had 5 more patients.
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I have another inquiry though. While at the guesthouse how do you go about taking a shower? Especially right after surgery with all the restricted mobility and weight bearing? Do you have to sit down? Can the frames get wet? My bad if this is a stupid or obvious question. I've just never seen anything in the diaries about the adventures of showering while leg lengthening. lol
Bring a chair into the shower area and sit on it with your legs on another chair going out of the shower and cover your legs with a towel. Then just wash your upper body and then request the caretakers later to wash your legs, feet, or hair.
Right after surgery it hurts quite a bit to move so you probably won't be motivated to take a shower for a week or two.
Not sure if it is good or bad to have the frames get wet. Everything that I read on old forum said not to as it can increase the risk of infection. I don't think anybody who showered at the guest house let their frames get wet.
One thing I wish I had were no rinse bath wipes to use instead of taking showers.
A diary would be cool since I do not think there is any diary about leg shortening. I am interested in the process of it.
How much have you decided to shorten by? I assume the desired length of bone is removed all at once and then you bring all the bones together again? How does the soft tissue handle being compacted together, are there any potential issues with that? What is the rate of compression?
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I'm glad that you are overcoming the superficial stigma that got us all obsess over this LL in the first place. Beside attracting girls, I don't see much advantage to being physically tall in this day and age. I think it's all about confident. I think being short really affects your psycho and that's it. And it's this psychology that cost us 4-6 months of our lives, lots of pain and suffering, 23k (including air ticket and other travel expense) and our health to go all the way to India for LL.
Having said all this, I'm going through with my femur LL plan within 10 months. I'm happy to hear that you are recovering well and don't think about your height anymore... this is especially important since your legs are already really long. Keep us posted on your recovery!!
I agree that attractiveness towards girls is probably the area in life where height is most important and below a certain height you will face significant problems. Beyond that I think it is hard to judge how much our height actually effects our lives. It is only one piece of the puzzle and by itself it does not really do much for you.
On paper LL looked like a good decision for me after reading through all of the diaries and looking at all the studies that show below average height people being at a disadvantage but now that I am back home I am thinking to myself, okay what now? I feel like I just took a 6 month vacation and came home exactly how I left.
I think the main thing that bothered me was the idea that something out of my direct control could have a negative impact on my life and there was nothing besides LL that could change that. I am glad that I had LL done and when I am older I can look back on my life and be rest assured my height has not hindered me in any negative way.
Another minor reason I wanted LL was that a part of me wanted to endure the experience and challenge of it. I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of my time in India having my LL and would do it all over again if I had the chance.
Having said all this, I'm going through with my femur LL plan within 10 months. I'm happy to hear that you are recovering well and don't think about your height anymore... this is especially important since your legs are already really long. Keep us posted on your recovery!!
A part of me is still thinking of doing a second LL but I am thinking less and less about it since I know my proportions probably cannot handle it. Once I am fully recovered I will do another set of mockups and try walking around in some elevator shoes to simulate a 4 cm gain and then put closure to the idea.
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Bring a chair into the shower area and sit on it with your legs on another chair going out of the shower and cover your legs with a towel. Then just wash your upper body and then request the caretakers later to wash your legs, feet, or hair.
Right after surgery it hurts quite a bit to move so you probably won't be motivated to take a shower for a week or two.
Not sure if it is good or bad to have the frames get wet. Everything that I read on old forum said not to as it can increase the risk of infection. I don't think anybody who showered at the guest house let their frames get wet.
One thing I wish I had were no rinse bath wipes to use instead of taking showers.
A diary would be cool since I do not think there is any diary about leg shortening. I am interested in the process of it.
How much have you decided to shorten by? I assume the desired length of bone is removed all at once and then you bring all the bones together again? How does the soft tissue handle being compacted together, are there any potential issues with that? What is the rate of compression?
I'm a very clean person so idk if pain would get in my way of showering haha. I actually don't even think I will have frames. What would be the point? Yes the bone is cut and then joined, either by a metal plate and screws to hold it in place or a nail inside the bone, which would be removed after a year or so. I'm not sure what technique Sarin uses(I assume rod). I didn't ask because I would prefer to discuss everything in detail with him at the consultation rather than email. I am thinking if it sounds too scary I make a final decision in India whether or not to proceed. (Fat chance I won't though :P) Physio of course is required after wards, knee bending issues could also occur.
As with your question about the soft tissue compacting, I read there is a risk of something called compartment syndrome, where the muscles in your legs develop too much pressure from a lack of blood supply and can damage the nerves and muscles. Apparently this is extremely painful and can be super serious if not treated. So there's something to think about. However my target is pretty slight (3, maybe 3.5 cm decrease) so I assume my leggys won't freak out on me too much. Sarin told me he decreased a guy -yes, a guyyy- by 7.5cm last August. Wonder how that dudes doing now…I've tried emailing but nada.
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I actually don't even think I will have frames. What would be the point? Yes the bone is cut and then joined, either by a metal plate and screws to hold it in place or a nail inside the bone, which would be removed after a year or so. I'm not sure what technique Sarin uses(I assume rod).
Sarin told me he decreased a guy -yes, a guyyy- by 7.5cm last August. Wonder how that dudes doing now…I've tried emailing but nada.
So once the bone is cut out and removed you can bring the leg together all at once and then lock it in place with a nail?
Cool, so it is true that that guy went through with it. I believe he was the brother of the other girl on old forum that was 6'3" and wanted shortening. It sucks he did not stay at the guest house, I would have liked to see and talk to him.
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Actually, most short guys I know don't really care about their height. If you don't care about attracting girls, being short has its own advantage. When I watch a fight, I always root for the smaller guy. Being short is powerful in its own way because you are being seen as as underdog. And people always root for the underdog.
You nailed it on the head for me. One of the weights pulling me down from getting LL is the idea that I won't be short anymore. Instead I'll be average. I've gone through my whole life as a short male in every age group, and for the most part, I've owned it as a part of me. People underestimate me and I love that feeling. I never want to be viewed as every other average male in my country.
Don't get me wrong, being average is a million times better in other aspects, but I'll miss the uniqueness I'm going to be losing with this surgery.
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You nailed it on the head for me. One of the weights pulling me down from getting LL is the idea that I won't be short anymore. Instead I'll be average. I've gone through my whole life as a short male in every age group, and for the most part, I've owned it as a part of me. People underestimate me and I love that feeling. I never want to be viewed as every other average male in my country.
Don't get me wrong, being average is a million times better in other aspects, but I'll miss the uniqueness I'm going to be losing with this surgery.
Yeah, you will lose this uniqueness. Don't forget to take lots of photo now. Then you can compare them with yourself after LL. It will be a priceless memory.
It's human nature. People normally want what they can't have. We go through our lives being short, face discrimination and pain that a short man faces. That's why we want to be tall for once. But tall people also have their own qualm. That's why it's not unusual to see people at the guesthouse who wants to becomes short... lol
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So once the bone is cut out and removed you can bring the leg together all at once and then lock it in place with a nail?
Cool, so it is true that that guy went through with it. I believe he was the brother of the other girl on old forum that was 6'3" and wanted shortening. It sucks he did not stay at the guest house, I would have liked to see and talk to him.
Yes, like any other discrepancy or severely broken bone.
Oh yeah that would make sense. Gosh that's tall.. I wish I was around when they were active on old forum . It'd be nice to talk with someone feeling the same way I do.
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Yes, like any other discrepancy or severely broken bone.
Oh yeah that would make sense. Gosh that's tall.. I wish I was around when they were active on old forum . It'd be nice to talk with someone feeling the same way I do.
It was absolutely nothing wrong with their height, just like yours.
The were totally messed up in their head, .........................
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It was absolutely nothing wrong with their height, just like yours.
The were totally messed up in their head, .........................
And before you had LL there was nothing wrong with your height either…there is no difference. I've read about guys that were 6 foot already and getting LL, but I didn't call that messed up.
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Olivetree,
May I ask where you're from? I was wondering if 5'6 could be considered tall for a female where you live in. (My girlfriend is 5'10 and she's not really happy with it either). I think your height is just perfect, but it's just my personal opinion. What matters is how you feel about it.
@Calic: Sorry to discuss other stuff in your diary mate. Cheers.
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And before you had LL there was nothing wrong with your height either…there is no difference. I've read about guys that were 6 foot already and getting LL, but I didn't call that messed up.
173cm is considered short in Sweden.
5'6 is not tall for a girl anywhere in the world.
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173cm is considered short in Sweden.
5'6 is not tall for a girl anywhere in the world.
She's not calling herself tall. She just wants to be shorter, and there's nothing wrong with wanting that.
I don't know what her reasons are, but I know if I was interested in a girl's personality, but she were 5' 6", that would be a deal breaker (since she's taller than me) and I wouldn't consider dating her. For girls, it seems the inverse of guys- the shorter you are, the larger your dating pool (up to a certain point). My current girlfriend is 4 inches shorter than me, which is just the way I like it.
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Edit. (Sent twice).
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Olivetree,
May I ask where you're from?
Seattle. So US average is 5'4". But currently I live in short Japan :-\ I know I'm not far from US average but my figure is slim with long legs, so I create the illusion to others of looking way taller than I am. And no it hasn't been fun.
Sweden the world doesn't revolve around just the plight of "short" guys. We all have issues. I dated a guy who was 5'7'' and instead of thinking he was too short for me, I thought I was too tall for him..
Edit: BilateralDamage, I totes understand what you mean about losing that uniqueness.
I'm gonna shut up now:) Calic, back to you.
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Seattle. So US average is 5'4". But currently I live in short Japan :-\ I know I'm not far from US average but my figure is slim with long legs, so I create the illusion to others of looking way taller than I am. And no it hasn't been fun.
Sweden the world doesn't revolve around just the plight of "short" guys. We all have issues. I dated a guy who was 5'7'' and instead of thinking he was too short for me, I thought I was too tall for him..
Edit: BilateralDamage, I totes understand what you mean about losing that uniqueness.
I'm gonna shut up now:) Calic, back to you.
Even Japanese nowadays desire taller height. I'm unsure where you got the idea that smaller is better. 5'6 is not that tall. Most men don't say it (especially the short or insecure guys), even Japanese men, desire tall women. Watch any girl band, rising actress, or pornstar or Japanese porno movies (opps).
We don't know you enough to make a judgement on your decision. Wish I know. Maybe you have experience something in your life that none of us have. But whatever decision you make, the procedure will be irreversible. Keep us posted!
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But whatever decision you make, the procedure will be irreversible.
Well, there is LL. ;D
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Hey Calic,
Sorry I spammed your diary with a bunch of irrelevant posts. How is your recovery coming along?
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Hey Calic,
Sorry I spammed your diary with a bunch of irrelevant posts. How is your recovery coming along?
All good.
I told my best friend about my LL and he said he noticed the height but didn't say anything about it and just assumed I had a growth spurt. He had no idea LL was possible. His height is exactly 5'10" so I am now just slightly taller than him now. I compared my proportions to him - his sitting height appeared to be about 1.5 inches more than me and my tibias were obviously way longer than his. Surprisingly my arms and hands were the exact same length and width as his. He has commented in the past that he has short arms but it was still cool to know my arms are still within the normal range of proportion. It sucks I have the arm length but not the torso length to do a 2nd LL :(
I also told his parents and 2 sisters about my LL. One sister just commented she thought the LL scene in Gattaca was science fiction. The other one who is in a medically related field found it more interesting. The parents were just confounded and didn't seem to understand why I would want to do something like LL.
Knee pain and other pain
I can walk or stand on my knees with no pain. I have slight pain when jogging. Sitting on my knees is painful enough to be uncomfortable. When trying to run or when walking downstairs quickly I feel a good amount of pain around the locking screws. This worries me a bit since I am not sure it will get any better since my bone should be fully healed and be taking the force of impact now. Everything else feels solid. I sometimes have some random pain in the foot or ankle but it goes away quickly.
I was thinking of just leaving the rods in for life but if I cannot run without pain in the locking screws I might have them removed.
Cold weather
I've walked outside in gym shorts at close to 0° F temperatures for 5 to 10 minutes and I feel no difference in my legs despite the rods being inside. I have been outside for longer periods of time with jeans on and never felt any difference.
Height decrease
I have seen a lot of talk about people losing height from LL and Sweden's situation seems quite bizarre - not sure what to think of this. My height has stayed at 5'10"+ for most of the day. This has me a little bit worried since my final height was higher than expected but I will measure it several months from now and see if there is any difference.
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Hey Calic,
It must be quite a great feeling when you finally stand taller than your friend after all the difficulties you have been through. Your LL journey was perfect and you have achieved what others would have paid $100k for (plus wailing). You should be proud of yourself. I met you in person and thought you were a great guy... and a true warrior. You truly deserve this achievement.
Height decrease - don't worry about this. Couldn't happen.
Slight pain - have you tried taking inflammatory supplements like omega 3 or curcumin? I heard they help with arthritis. I eat a lot of sushi here for lunch. Maybe that seems to help me with feeling no pain. However, I do feel slight discomfort sometime like waking up in the morning with a stiff calf muscle. However I can quickly walk into the bathtub and take a shower. And sitting on my knee makes me feel pain... but how often do we require to sit on our knees? So I wouldn't consider these as pain.
How is your dating life? Have girls now find you more attractive?
PS. I will be making a video tomorrow... maybe just to demonstrate how my own recovery has been thus far after 6 months of going to the gym. It was meant to be created for a few ppl who I met in India like yourself and a 1-2 other ppl on this forum. Be sure to watch it :D
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It is an interesting change of perspective. In a way I kind of feel superior to others who are shorter than me now. Unfortunately, a part of me still wants more height but I am thinking less and less of the idea now.
I haven't taken anything for the pain yet as it doesn't bother me enough.
I haven't done any dating since I got back and I am still trying to find a job. I haven't been out much either. I know the added height will help though :)
I liked the video. It looks like you will be able to make a full recovery. How is the pain when jogging or trying to run?
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Great to hear from you Mr "Perfect Recovery"!!!
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It is an interesting change of perspective. In a way I kind of feel superior to others who are shorter than me now. Unfortunately, a part of me still wants more height but I am thinking less and less of the idea now.
I haven't taken anything for the pain yet as it doesn't bother me enough.
I haven't done any dating since I got back and I am still trying to find a job. I haven't been out much either. I know the added height will help though :)
I liked the video. It looks like you will be able to make a full recovery. How is the pain when jogging or trying to run?
I'm pretty sure things will work out for you (eg. jobs, dates, etc). You have a long road ahead of you.
I guess this LL is like buying a car. If you're happy with what you have, then it's all that matters. If you want more, have you thought about building your upper and lower body? I watched your video and that was only because you just finished the surgery. Everyone looks like a stick.
I haven't feel any pain. The last time I felt pain was in May.
Great to hear from you Mr "Perfect Recovery"!!!
His LL journey was perfect. He's still recovering now. lol
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Great to hear from you again, Calic! It's great to follow your recovery. Has anyone ever made any comments about your new proportions or have people only noticed your new height? In my opinion you look completely proportional.
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I guess this LL is like buying a car. If you're happy with what you have, then it's all that matters. If you want more, have you thought about building your upper and lower body? I watched your video and that was only because you just finished the surgery. Everyone looks like a stick.
I really want another LL to be 6' but I also want to look good. I am definitely going to build some muscle and see if that makes me look any better. I am going to wait another year before I take another look at myself and decide if I can handle another LL.
Great to hear from you again, Calic! It's great to follow your recovery. Has anyone ever made any comments about your new proportions or have people only noticed your new height? In my opinion you look completely proportional.
Only my height, nobody has made any comment or questioned my proportions when I have told them about my LL. It is interesting since when I discovered LL proportions was one of the first things I thought about.
I have asked various people about my proportions. One friend said he thought I would look out of proportion with another LL and my Mom thought I might look like I am walking on stilts. Everyone says I look good right now and nobody thinks my tibias look long.
I definitely believe anyone can do a single LL for 2 or 3 inches and look good but doing a 2nd LL for another 2 or 3 inches I do not think everyone can do. Do you think I would still look good with another 1.5 inches added to my femurs?
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Hi Calic. Personally, I think you could easily handle ~4CM on your femurs but definitely not any more than 5CM. There are a lot of men with femurs longer than their torsos naturally. These tend to be black men, but I've seen quite a few white men who are naturally this way too. These people don't look weird because their build is a naturally occurring body type. Look at my post in the thread "short torso and long legs" to see what I mean. You could easily pull off 4CM more because your arms are so long. I wish I had arms like yours to start out with (I'm your proportions opposite, short arms and 96cm sitting height). If you didn't have those long arms, you'd look like you were walking on stilts, but your arms make everything come together nicely, and make you look like a naturally long-legged person. I think your LL actually made you look younger (and, of course, taller), because it have you a slimmer profile, since you haven't gotten any wider.
I am biased, after having looked at so many proportions threads, but I think that, currently, your tibias do look just a little too long. I don't think anyone would casually notice, especially while you're wearing pants, but I do think that just a tad more length on the femurs may make your legs look a bit more natural. I don't think that 4 CM on the femur will affect the way your upper body is perceived, but please don't do more than 5CM, jut because, at that point, your hands won't be close enough to your knees to appear natural. But, you could also stay the way you are currently and go through the rest of your life without worrying about being short or having to do another LL. Some people, like Ryan Gossing, have long tibias naturally. These people are rare, but they do exist.
Are you sure you did 6.5CM on your tibs, or is it possible that you may have done a bit more? How did Dr. Sarin measure your final distance? I've often heard that measuring based on X-rays alone is unreliable because it's hard to tell where the bone gaps begin and end.
Anyways, I hope that helps you in some way,
Tall
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I think your LL actually made you look younger (and, of course, taller), because it have you a slimmer profile, since you haven't gotten any wider.
I was hoping LL would make me look older like an adult :( I think I might ask my parents if they think I look older. My face has a young look to it so that probably doesn't help either.
I am biased, after having looked at so many proportions threads, but I think that, currently, your tibias do look just a little too long. I don't think anyone would casually notice, especially while you're wearing pants, but I do think that just a tad more length on the femurs may make your legs look a bit more natural.
I agree they look too long - I see clear disproportion between my femur and tibia. As long as my femurs are covered with shorts it isn’t easy to tell though. A second LL would balance out my lower legs nicely. I am happy though and the sacrifice in proportion to be 5’10” is worth it. I never think about my current proportions.
Are you sure you did 6.5CM on your tibs, or is it possible that you may have done a bit more? How did Dr. Sarin measure your final distance? I've often heard that measuring based on X-rays alone is unreliable because it's hard to tell where the bone gaps begin and end.
No, my final height is well above what it should have been and my tibias were longer than everyone else’s who had a similar starting/final height as me by a big margin like I had done 8 cm.
I recorded on a spreadsheet and was about 7 cm turned on both legs. Dr. Sarin and his assistant measured using a metal scale and the intensifier multiple times. The only thing I can figure is Dr. Sarin lengthened me an additional 5 mm instead of reducing by 5 mm.
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I think if you put more muscle on your legs, you would lose the stilty look and could squeeze in some cm on your femurs. I think you should do some lifting for your overall physique too. Is lifting anything heavy out of the question for you right now?
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I was hoping LL would make me look older like an adult :( I think I might ask my parents if they think I look older. My face has a young look to it so that probably doesn't help either.
Trust me, looking young is a huge blessing in (not so much imo) disguise. In due time you will be very grateful for looking young. In my observations, people who looked like adults at 14 find themselves aging much faster later in life, while those whose appearance "aged" later tend to have youthful energy and vitality for longer, and age far more gracefully. I've seen such people look 50 at age 85. It's crazy. When you're 40+, 5'10 (or more, maybe), and look 25-35, everyone your age will wish they were you 8).
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I think if you put more muscle on your legs, you would lose the stilty look and could squeeze in some cm on your femurs. I think you should do some lifting for your overall physique too. Is lifting anything heavy out of the question for you right now?
I feel like I might be able to start doing light weight squats like 135 pounds or so. I am going to start seriously working out soon.
Trust me, looking young is a huge blessing in (not so much imo) disguise. In due time you will be very grateful for looking young. In my observations, people who looked like adults at 14 find themselves aging much faster later in life, while those whose appearance "aged" later tend to have youthful energy and vitality for longer, and age far more gracefully. I've seen such people look 50 at age 85. It's crazy. When you're 40+, 5'10 (or more, maybe), and look 25-35, everyone your age will wish they were you 8).
Cool so I will probably still look young when I am old.
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Coming home
For many weeks after coming home I had a lot of ankle pain since I was not used to walking as much as people do in normal life. I no longer have any ankle pain now. Sometimes my legs are still stiff in the morning, I think I will have to start doing stretches to improve it. I still sometimes have random aches and pains in parts of the legs or ankle but this has been going away.
Current status
Right now the biggest problem for me are the rods and screws in my legs. Walking is okay but jogging is painful and running is not possible. Right now I still feel like a cripple since there is so much pain with jogging or running. I feel I will never fully recover or be able to run until my rods are removed – it’s awful. I regret going with LON.
Regrets
1. I would have gone with external only for these reasons:
- The frames did not bother me much so I would have been okay for keeping them on for another 6 months.
- I was not making much money where I was working so lost income would not have been a big issue and I would have saved several thousand from the initial surgery and rod removal later.
- It is less invasive and I would have no scar on the knee.
- I would have been done with LL all at once and not have rods and screws which bother me on a daily basis.
- The frames would have allowed me to work on my ballerina more since I could continue to wear sandals. They were surprisingly effective at preventing and reducing ballerina.
2. I would have opted to not having middle pins put in. The scars I think are more noticeable in the middle of the leg, there is risk of having the muscle fascia torn, and it caused more pain and discomfort than the other pin sites. After many patients had issues with them Dr. Sarin stopped using middle pins on patients while I was there. There were several patients who had their middle pins removed during lengthening.
3. I would have lengthened .66 mm/day after the first few cm. I was doing well with no pain so I kept doing 1 mm but then I had nerve issues and that might have been caused by me. A lot of people had nerve issues and had to have nerve tests done but I was not aware of this until too late and I do not remember reading about it in any of the diaries. I am not sure if it was because a lot of Dr. Sarin patients lengthened faster than normal or some other reason.
4. I would have obtained a medical visa. To my knowledge my tourist visa was not extendable and it would have been better to have the medical one just in case I had to stay longer.
2nd LL surgery
Right after my first LL I wanted a 2nd LL to add 4 cm my femurs to make me about 6’ but now I feel that my proportions definitely cannot handle it. If I had unlimited time and money I would lengthen my femurs just enough to be in proportion with my tibias and maybe have my tibias shortened.
Rod removal
I have a consultation scheduled with an ortho tomorrow about removing my rods. I am worried there might be more going on with my legs that I am not aware of.
These are the things I will have addressed:
- Length of tibias and femurs
- Straightness of legs
- Fibula migration
- Outer hip pain on both sides randomly - Trochanteric Bursitis maybe?
- I see tissue sticking out of my middle pin scar areas and when I move my foot I see movement in the area. It might be muscle fascia damage?
- Something vein like sticking out on my right leg near the middle pin site. This might be muscle fascia damage as well?
- Range of motion I am lacking in my ankle still
- Gait
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Hey Calic,
Sorry to hear about your complications. It seems that they all occur after your frame removal. You had a smooth ride throughout your stay in India (I heard).
How do you know if removal of the rod would help? Keep us updated and thanks for sharing.
Good-luck with your consultation tomorrow.
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Sorry to hear this but there is a good chance you'll heal up with time.
I was first able to run this week and I'm still improving.
ROM in ankles are also still improving and the aches are less and less. X-legs look a little better but not good.
I will start PT again, haven't been there this year at all.
Keep fighting. Remember that rod removal puts another trauma on your knees and you will be set back a couple of months if not more.
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I hope that everything will be alright. Fibular mitigation, permanent x-legs, and muscle fascia damage would be the most serious, as they would require more surgical intervention and lots of time to correct. Please keep us updated with what your ortho discovers. Even if things take a turn for the worse, your story can at least serve as a cautionary tale for others, which would is very kind of you.
I really hope that all you need is a little more time to recover and that everything will be fine as soon as the rods come out. Best of luck buddy.
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How do you know if removal of the rod would help? Keep us updated and thanks for sharing.
The location of the pain feels like it is exactly where the hardware is.
Update from after the consultation
Bad News
I explained I feel sharp shooting pain like the hardware is going to shoot through my legs when I jog or try to run and it has not gotten better since last year and I want the hardware removed.
He thinks the hardware should stay in another year because the bones are not fully healed and remodeled and the soft tissues are not fully recovered. He wants me to do physical therapy and thinks that will reduce the pain for me.
I personally do not think the pain is going to lessen until the hardware is removed. I am going to find another ortho and get a second opinion on removal of the hardware.
Good News
There is nothing physically wrong with my legs.
Length of tibias and femurs – I asked the technician taking the x-rays if the length of the bones would be measured and they said yes but it ended up not happening.
Straightness of legs – My legs are straight.
Fibula migration – Slightly out of place but nothing serious.
Outer hip pain on both sides randomly – He thinks physical therapy will eliminate this.
The tissue I see sticking out – Just scar tissue from pin cutting and nothing to be worried about.
Range of motion – I am only lacking a little bit.
Gait – He thought it looked okay.
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a587/calicLL/1_zpsb16aabd3.jpg~original)
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Calic,
Your leg tibias look long. How much did you say you lengthen? Previously you mentioned something about lengthening at 0.66mm/day instead of 1mm/day. Up to how many cms can you do 1mm to prevent premature consolidation? Thank you and please keep us updated.
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Calic,
Your leg tibias look long. How much did you say you lengthen? Previously you mentioned something about lengthening at 0.66mm/day instead of 1mm/day. Up to how many cms can you do 1mm to prevent premature consolidation? Thank you and please keep us updated.
I lengthened about 6.5 cm. Lengthening 1mm/day up to 2 or 3 cm is probably okay.
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X legs & foot pronation
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damn man your looks good dude. I am on my 4th month still lengthening. I am doing LON. Any advice would be sick.
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Any Update?