Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: ReadRothbard on August 12, 2014, 08:47:30 AM
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Hi, I think I'm going to do 10 cm on my tibias at the Russian Scientific Centre using the Ilizarov external fixators (though I'm strongly considering Dr. Barinov, as he does LON). Now, I'm wondering if I will be able to return to weight lifting 6-7 months after the operation, as I am an avid weightlifter and swimmer. Also, will 10 cm permanently affect my athletic ability (mainly lower body strength)? Thank you.
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Hi, I think I'm going to do 10 cm on my tibias at the Russian Scientific Centre using the Ilizarov external fixators (though I'm strongly considering Dr. Barinov, as he does LON). Now, I'm wondering if I will be able to return to weight lifting 6-7 months after the operation, as I am an avid weightlifter and swimmer. Also, will 10 cm permanently affect my athletic ability (mainly lower body strength)? Thank you.
No not really. 10 cm aren't recommended but RGKEY did 9cm successfully (http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=395.0) so it is possible but you will need at least 10 months (1 month per cm) to be fully recovered if everything goes perfectly, if not it can be a long time if you do external only. If you do LON you also won't be able to do weight lifting after 6-7 months.
LL won't affect your athletic ability if you work really hard on your recovery, but if you don't you will damage your tendons and muscles.
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I don't know about 10cm, but 7.5cm didn't affect my lower body strength. In fact I could lift more after the surgery than I could before.
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Failed.
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For a length of 10 cm I'd go with LON despite the risk of knee pain just to avoid the insane amount of time you'd be required to wear the frames. You should really consider splitting that amount between tibs and femurs though.
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What about plating? Could that be the happy medium? 10 cms and hopeful to do weightlifting after 7 months? Seems impossible if you ask me, way too soon. But do let us know if you make it
Good luck friend
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It won't look good. You will have difficulties for the rest of your life. It will take more than a year before you can even think of lifting weights with your legs.
There is a limit of 5cm for many reasons and you want to go 100% beyond that.
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I don't know about 10cm, but 7.5cm didn't affect my lower body strength. In fact I could lift more after the surgery than I could before.
wow I find that really interesting loosing strength is one of my biggest concerns and I was expecting to seriously loose my leg strength and be never the same at sport again and it's really encouraging that you actually got stronger :)
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What about plating? Could that be the happy medium? 10 cms and hopeful to do weightlifting after 7 months? Seems impossible if you ask me, way too soon. But do let us know if you make it
Good luck friend
What is plating? in the context of limb lengthening.
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I think 10cm is suprahuman and those who can do it are very rare. That lengthening is an exception.
You can't have both ways. If you go 10cm or even around that length (8-10cm), you will sacrifice some of your athletic abilities.
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10cm is easy, even kids do more (the ones that have achondroplasia), but your tibia-femur proportions may not look very good, you have to judge by yourself. And it will require you some agressive PT to stretch your achilles tendon, else you'll need a surgery to cut (release) it. You'll also need to work on your knee, your hamstrings and gastrocnemius will be very tight from such lengthening and you wont be able to straigthen your legs fully! You will recover fully, if you exercise daily, there's no data I can find that shows correlation between amount lengthened and lost muscle strength.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20298828
There was no association between muscle strength and the amount of lengthening that had been undertaken.
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My advice is to lengthen to 5CM. If you are completely complication free, go to 6. If you're still fine, go to 7 etc. If ballerina starts to appear or you have any difficulty walking, stop lengthening until these issues fully resolved themselves. If your bones consolidate before these issues are solved, then just be happy that you got some additional height. If they don't consolidate by the time your complications clear up, then press on until you either reach 10CM or can't recover from the complications before bone consolidation. Good luck!
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10cm is easy, even kids do more (the ones that have achondroplasia), but your tibia-femur proportions may not look very good, you have to judge by yourself. And it will require you some agressive PT to stretch your achilles tendon, else you'll need a surgery to cut (release) it. You'll also need to work on your knee, your hamstrings and gastrocnemius will be very tight from such lengthening and you wont be able to straigthen your legs fully! You will recover fully, if you exercise daily, there's no data I can find that shows correlation between amount lengthened and lost muscle strength.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20298828
There was no association between muscle strength and the amount of lengthening that had been undertaken.
Achondroplasia patients can lengthen much, much more easily than healthy cosmetic LL patients. You see, achondroplasia patients' muscles were meant to be longer and were never able to grow to its intended length, but their soft tissue is "made" to be stretched unlike ours. So, kids with achondroplasia will have the easiest time of all, especially since their levels of hormones such as HGH are naturally very high, allowing muscles to adapt and grow instead of stretching. This is not the case in adults.
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You see, achondroplasia patients' muscles were meant to be longer and were never able to grow to propose length, but their soft tissue is "made" to be stretched unlike ours
Sorry, you're talking complete nonsense. Try to actually find data to backup your statement. I know for sure that those kids also get the very same complications, that adults do, there are papers with statistics showing mean amount lengthened, ROM after lengthening and ROM 1 year after removing frames. It's on russian anyways, so you wont understand. Also, take a look at the link in my previous message, it clearly states that there is no correlation between amount lengthened and muscle strength. Also, no one is stopping you from taking HGH, it's proven to also speed up bone consolidation.
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Your muscle will never be explosive again after 10cm.
There is do much more to it than just bones and muscles.
It's frightening to see individuals totaly believe that 10cm is easy or that they wiLL Forumully recover. Christ!!
Being stronger after LL doesn't say more than the actual person can push more weights at the gym. Anyone can do that but jumping high or doing backflips is something different which he will never be able to do again.
To kick fast is also impossible after LL or to do a spinning round kick bc your longer leg breaks up the speed when you're spinning.
Not that you need to be able to do this, but 10cm is devastating for your body. It will also look very weird.
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Your muscle will never be explosive again after 10cm.
There is do much more to it than just bones and muscles.
It's frightening to see individuals totaly believe that 10cm is easy or that they wiLL Forumully recover. Christ!!
Being stronger after LL doesn't say more than the actual person can push more weights at the gym. Anyone can do that but jumping high or doing backflips is something different which he will never be able to do again.
To kick fast is also impossible after LL or to do a spinning round kick bc your longer leg breaks up the speed when you're spinning.
Not that you need to be able to do this, but 10cm is devastating for your body. It will also look very weird.
While i agree with you that full 100% recovery isnt possible if you go beyond the safe limit (5 or 6 cm) in terms of muscle strength and tendon flexibility etc, i think part of the reason why you cant kick fast anymore is because of the extra weight from the internal nails you are carrying in your tibias. The other reason is because you probably havent finished recovering yet.
just a guess, i dont know how much the nail weighs..maybe its not heavy at all.
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jumping high or doing backflips is something different which he will never be able to do again.
I don't see a reason why. As someone stated, you still have the rods in your legs and you're also not at the 2 years mark, so you're recovering still.
To kick fast is also impossible after LL or to do a spinning round kick bc your longer leg breaks up the speed when you're spinning.
Honestly, that makes zero sense to me, but then again I don't kick. I mean, if you say your longer leg breaks up the speed, wouldn't that mean that someone with naturally long legs won't be able to kick as fast?
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Doing 10 cm on tibia is not a realistic goal , you are literally planning to ruin ur life .
I did 8 cm on tibia but i really wish i did 6cm at most .
if u r planning to do 10cm then u r putting everything on risk as following ;
propotion , athletic ability , physical apperiance (if people will notice or not) , normal daily function , ankle flexiblity , walking gait , muscle atrophe , mental trauma if something goes wrong , at the most ur life is at RISK so think realistically .
If u want a safe LL and a good recovery then stay in a safe zone .
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propotion
RGKEY did 9cm on tibia and he looks cool.
athletic ability
It's proven to recover fully after 2 years, with no connection to amount lengthened.
physical apperiance
Same as proportions.
normal daily function
Same as athletic ability.
muscle atrophe
Muscles don't atrophy, if you use them. Nothing to do with amount lengthened.
mental trauma if something goes wrong
Doesn't happen, unless you're retarded or 5 years old. In either case, you shouldn't be doing LL.
fk your safe zone.
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Ok,this is my first post on this forum.I've been reading almost any thread and I got to say its great so far.I'm serbian guy in my middle 30's and Im considering LL for a long time.I must say,10 cm looks tempting to do on tibias and I think its not impossible or insane to do it.If u do what your doctor tells u to do,PT every day,stretching etc..I think Exclide got a point here.Rgkey done 9,I think 10 is reachable if u are not lazy to do PT.
Greetings Wannabetaller
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Yes, RGKey looks fantastic. But, he had exceptionally short legs and a very big, broad upper body to begin with.
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Yes, RGKey looks fantastic. But, he had exceptionally short legs and a very big, broad upper body to begin with.
He was under average in everything. Wingspan. Sitting torso height. so i would not advice 10 cm. I would advice 8 cm though that is the highest and i will probably doing that soon,
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Dear God what am I reading??? :o
Newbies know better. Now that's a new one for me.
Go ahead, ruin your lifes. What do I care anyway.
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Newbies know better. Now that's a new one for me.
Get real. I'm also a LL patient, just like you, not a newbie.
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RGKEY did 9cm on tibia and he looks cool.
It's proven to recover fully after 2 years, with no connection to amount lengthened.
Same as proportions.
Same as athletic ability.
Muscles don't atrophy, if you use them. Nothing to do with amount lengthened.
Doesn't happen, unless you're retarded or 5 years old. In either case, you shouldn't be doing LL.
f**k your safe zone.
Irresponsible quote , think b4 u write anything stupid . Because of u someone is really gonna get hurt real bad . I have already done CLL and experienced its up n down .
That safe zone u want to f**k is a realistic and life saver for everyone
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Get real. I'm also a LL patient, just like you, not a newbie.
Maybe you're not a newbie, but you're not very clever. 10cm tibia lengthening is a bad idea, most doctors won't even lengthen above 6cm and you're saying 10cm is no problem at all, stop spreading nonsense.
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Sveden,why u did 7cm if the safe zone is like 5cm?Im thinking 8cm tops for me,just sayin' 10 is rechable for some poeople,not for me.
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Sveden,why u did 7cm if the safe zone is like 5cm?Im thinking 8cm tops for me,just sayin' 10 is rechable for some poeople,not for me.
I came for maximum 6cm but got caught up in the numbers and those who did 7cm looked fine.
Now when I'm done with it I know for the better that I should have done only 6cm. Preferable 5cm.
10cm is insane in every aspect there is.
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I came for maximum 6cm but got caught up in the numbers and those who did 7cm looked fine.
Now when I'm done with it I know for the better that I should have done only 6cm. Preferable 5cm.
10cm is insane in every aspect there is.
I think 7 is good or even 8.If I give so much money to the doctors for the operation I will do the best for it.Imo if u give 10 000 euros or in some case 20-25 000 just to grow only 5 cm,the money and your time is just wasted.
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I think 7 is good or even 8.If I give so much money to the doctors for the operation I will do the best for it.Imo if u give 10 000 euros or in some case 20-25 000 just to grow only 5 cm,the money and your time is just wasted.
5 cm makes quite a noticeable difference between two people standing next to each other. If you can end up recovering better by lengthening 3 cm less on one segment then that would be a worthy trade off.
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5 cm makes quite a noticeable difference between two people standing next to each other. If you can end up recovering better by lengthening 3 cm less on one segment then that would be a worthy trade off.
Yes,I agree with you.
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you're saying 10cm is no problem at all
No, what did I say? I said it's not a problem, if you do agressive PT and also noted that it could affect your lower limb proportions. If someone decides he looks fine on a mockup with 10cm, and also understands he'd have to stretch a lot, then what's the reason you're telling him it's 'not safe'? The thing is you're the one that actually spreads nonsense.
5 cm makes quite a noticeable difference between two people standing next to each other
5cm are quite hard to notice for yourself. I'd say you should go at least for 7-7.5cm or 3 inches, that should be something, else you'll most likely regret it. And you don't end up recovering better doing less lengthening, you end up recovering faster - there's a difference.
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No, what did I say? I said it's not a problem, if you do agressive PT and also noted that it could affect your lower limb proportions. If someone decides he looks fine on a mockup with 10cm, and also understands he'd have to stretch a lot, then what's the reason you're telling him it's 'not safe'? The thing is you're the one that actually spreads nonsense.
5cm are quite hard to notice for yourself. I'd say you should go at least for 7-7.5cm or 3 inches, that should be something, else you'll most likely regret it. And you don't end up recovering better doing less lengthening, you end up recovering faster - there's a difference.
I hope you do realise that height is subjective. For some people 5 cm can make a huge difference. I useto wear 5cm lifts and i realised how much difference it made and even some people noticed that i appeared taller! I have seen several members who were very satisfied around 5 cm and decided to end distraction.
Another thing is that you should not be over confident that 10 cm in one segment is safe and encourage people to lengthen that much. You don't have any studies to back this up as well. People can face serious complications while trying to achieve this much such as nerve damage,early arthritis and joint stiffness. Some people may lose their athletic ability as well.
Yea some individuals are naturally able to go that distance while others cannot. They can face complications and difficulties even early on their distraction.
It is common sense that the less you lengthen then less chances of complications and faster recovery. This should not be hard to comprehend.
Well you can lengthen as much as you want and no one is stopping you from lengthening 10, 15 , 20 cm in one segment but you should not encourage people to do the same.
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And you don't end up recovering better doing less lengthening, you end up recovering faster - there's a difference.
This statement is most likely completely false, i understand that you want to believe that it is true to justify the ammount you lengthened, but lets get realistic here.
The one source you posted did not mention anything about the actual ammount of cm the patients where lengthening. The claim that they didnt found any correlation of recovered muscle strenght to the ammount lengthened wouldnt be surprising if the patients in the test had a lengthening range of 3-6 cm for example. We dont know if any of them went beyond the mentioned safe limit or how much it varied between patients.
Also this test does not take into account how active or athletic the patients where before the LL process, if they where all average joes who werent active in sports, which is likely for at least some of them considering the age range varied from 13-57, then it wouldnt be that hard to reach their previous ability since they never pushed their limits previously either.
However someone who is very athletic and has pushed his body as much as he/she can before LL surgery would most likely notice that that previous level of athleticism is not reachable after doing LL, at least not if the lengthened ammount is over the safe limit. How much of a difference depends on the individual.
Finally these tests (the dynamometer and the leg extensor) do not test the patients agility and mobility of the legs after LL, which woud certainly be affected since we change the biomechanics of the legs by lengthening them (femur LL changes the mechanical axis, and also the femur-tibia ratio would change unless you lengthened them both specifically to keep the ratio, which would be very hard to do if you did 10 cm on tibias..
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No, what did I say? I said it's not a problem, if you do agressive PT and also noted that it could affect your lower limb proportions. If someone decides he looks fine on a mockup with 10cm, and also understands he'd have to stretch a lot, then what's the reason you're telling him it's 'not safe'? The thing is you're the one that actually spreads nonsense.
5cm are quite hard to notice for yourself. I'd say you should go at least for 7-7.5cm or 3 inches, that should be something, else you'll most likely regret it. And you don't end up recovering better doing less lengthening, you end up recovering faster - there's a difference.
Ahh, you're the guy who claimed that people naturally have shorter wingspan than height without providing source and when you were asked to post one of the many studies who proof that (which is not true, but you claimed that) you went silent.
And it doesn't matter that you say "you should go at least for 7-7.5cm or 3 inches" because you have completely no clue about orthopedics and you are not a doctor. Stop giving false hopes to future LL-patients and stop encouraging them to do dangerous things!
You're definitely a complete retard, if I would be running this forum you would have been banned a long time ago.
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It seems to me,no one do 10 cm on tiibas in this forum.Somebody can maybe say we are talkin bs ;D
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You're definitely a complete retard, if I would be running this forum you would have been banned a long time ago.
That was the best thing about the old "old forum " who went to China.
He banned everyone writing nonsense.
He was also totally against all Indian doctors and everyone else who operated in poor countries.
Today we can see he was right to do it.
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I hope you do realise that height is subjective. For some people 5 cm can make a huge difference
I did 5cm on tibs and ended up realising it was for nothing. You adapt to such tiny increase very fast and soon you question yourself did you actually even lengthen that 5cm.
You don't have any studies to back this up as well. People can face serious complications while trying to achieve this much such as nerve damage,early arthritis and joint stiffness.
You don't have any studies to back up that it's actually not safe and why it isn't. You're all just speculating all over and that's what I hate. Everyone can make claims - it's not hard, but you actually have to give them some value.
It is common sense that the less you lengthen then less chances of complications and faster recovery. This should not be hard to comprehend.
And where exactly did I try to argue with that? Point me out.
i understand that you want to believe that it is true to justify the ammount you lengthened, but lets get realistic here.
Haha, this has nothing to do with me, I don't need to 'justify' my amount lengthened, as it was completely complications free.
The one source you posted did not mention anything about the actual ammount of cm the patients where lengthening
Here you http://www.archives-pmr.org/article/S0003-9993%2809%2900967-8/pdf
In this series of patients, the range in percentage lengthening was between 5% and 18%
Also this test does not take into account how active or athletic the patients where before the LL process
Finally these tests (the dynamometer and the leg extensor) do not test the patients agility and mobility of the legs after LL
Dude, I don't understand why YOU don't show me a research which shows correlation between amount lengthened and muscle strength/athletic ability. I'm still waiting for it. Or is everyone supposed to take your word for it?
You're definitely a complete retard, if I would be running this forum you would have been banned a long time ago.
Hey Apo, why did you change your nickname?
claimed that people naturally have shorter wingspan than height without providing source
Here you go, np: http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/37/1/157.full
(http://i.imgur.com/yqkUfc8.jpg?1)
Figure 1–
Bland–Altman comparisons a, b) between measured height (H) and height estimated from arm span (AS) to height fixed ratio calculated from our population data for each sex (1.01 for females (a, c, e) and 1.02 for males (b, d, f)), c, d) between H and height estimated from AS regression equation with correction for age and e, f) between measured height and height estimated from the identity document height (H-ID) regression equation with correction for age. —: bias; bias confidence limits (±2 sem) are not represented on the diagrams because of their very small magnitudes. ---: limits of agreement (±2 sd). Estimated heights calculated from AS and H-ID regression equations, taking age into account, show good correction of bias. Variance for estimation from H-ID is significantly lower than for estimation from arm span (p<0.001).
http://www.josonline.org/pdf/v9i1p19.pdf
(http://i.imgur.com/Ni6nehN.jpg?1?2218)
Another graph showing clearly that people can have AS shorter than their height.
Kinda funny how I'm the only one who cares to back up statements with actual data, I guess everyone else thinks that anything coming from their mouth is true by default.
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Bland–Altman comparisons a, b) between measured height (H) and height estimated from arm span (AS) to height fixed ratio calculated from our population data for each sex (1.01 for females (a, c, e) and 1.02 for males (b, d, f)), c, d)
Like I said, you are not a very clever man, so you clearly didn't understand this study, you just picked out a few graphs without explaining the context.
Table 1
Various physical measurements of the women in the study (n=505)
Physical measurements Mean Standard deviation Range
Age (Years) 29.66
Sitting height (cm) 79.35
Standing height (cm) 156.88
Leg length (cm) 77.53
Arm span (cm) 159.14
(http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/37/1/157.full)
And maybe you should google what linear regression is because you also didn't understand that and please don't try to make yourself look intelligent with studies because you're clearly not.
There is a reason you were banned from old forum and the reason was that you talk nonsense.
And finally LL was a waste on you, you are still, lets put kindly, an unlikeable person, your life would be still miserable even if you were 195cm. Once a loser always a loser.
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Oh, Mr. Clever Man doesn't know difference between average and standart deviation. With the same logic you can tell me that all people are 5'9 tall, because that's the average around the world! Well I'm not trying to seem intelligent, but you definitely don't seem to be either.
And finally LL was a waste on you, you are still, lets put kindly, an unlikeable person, your life would be still miserable even if you were 195cm. Once a loser always a loser.
That actually made me giggle. I'll probably stop right there, as this... 'discussion' isn't going anywhere. If you find studies that confirm correlation between amount lengthened and athletic ability/muscle strength, let me know!
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Ok,stop arguin u two.Exclide,so how much u did on your tibs at the end?
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Exclixide, looking at that study, majority of the patients did femur lengthening, and we already established that the safe limit for femur lengthening is higher than for the tibia.
In fact not a single one of the patients did tibia only, and not even one of these patients did over 7 cm on one segment, the highest was 6.6 cm on femurs which one patient did.
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Let him do what he wants, if he wants to do 10cms let him... Heck do 15cms for all I care ;D
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I did 5cm on tibs and ended up realising it was for nothing. You adapt to such tiny increase very fast and soon you question yourself did you actually even lengthen that 5cm.
This is so much bull . 5 cm is a just a tiny increase according to you, but 7 is totally worth it?
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5cm is ok,its noticable for sure.My dream is 8cm tops.So Exclide,u did 5cm?Why didn't you do 10 if u think thats ok to do?
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5cm is ok,its noticable for sure.My dream is 8cm tops.So Exclide,u did 5cm?Why didn't you do 10 if u think thats ok to do?
I did 5cm and ended up breaking my tibias again and also femur to pull off desired height. 5cm don't cure height neurosis.
This is so much bulls**t. 5 cm is a just a tiny increase according to you, but 7 is totally worth it?
Yeah, that's like 50% increase, it's a good gain.
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I did 5cm and ended up breaking my tibias again and also femur to pull off desired height. 5cm don't cure height neurosis.
Yeah, that's like 50% increase, it's a good gain.
It depends on the person. A guy with 1,73 is gonna be 1,78 after lengthening 5, which is perfectly fine, a different person might want more, although 2 cm really is just a tiny difference. That doesn't mean that lengthening 10 cm is easy or advisable though.
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Exclixide, looking at that study, majority of the patients did femur lengthening, and we already established that the safe limit for femur lengthening is higher than for the tibia.
"""", and not even one of these patients did over 7 cm on one segment, the highest was 6.6 cm on femurs which one patient did.
Wow wow wait.. So you are saying they lengthened both tibia and femur at the same time?
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Wow wow wait.. So you are saying they lengthened both tibia and femur at the same time?
I didnt read the whole study so i dont know if they did cross lengthening, but it clearly said several of the patients lengthened both tibia and femur, while the rest only lengthened femurs. They tested them after 2 years and apparantly they had recovered by then so its likely they did both segments at the same time or in close proximity to each other.
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I didnt read the whole study so i dont know if they did cross lengthening, but it clearly said several of the patients lengthened both tibia and femur, while the rest only lengthened femurs. They tested them after 2 years and apparantly they had recovered by then so its likely they did both segments at the same time or in close proximity to each other.
Do you think lengthening femurs and tibia at the same time is more difficult than just tibia. Ofcourse it is but i mean is it really that much of a difference. You are still bedridden everything the same.
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Do you think lengthening femurs and tibia at the same time is more difficult than just tibia. Ofcourse it is but i mean is it really that much of a difference. You are still bedridden everything the same.
I think it has to be much much more difficult, considering i dont think you will be able to weight bear at all for the first months (maybe im wrong but i have a hard time imagining anybody walking early with 6 broken bones) also, the bones will heal much slower..
I think it would be to much trauma for the body to take all at once. I dont know but there is a reason why most doctors are against it.
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But maybe if you do tibia like 1 month before and then femurs and finish still the same at the end. 7.5 tibia an 5-6 on femur ?.
Not that im gonna do this..still got me interested when you mentioned that other people have done it.
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Also did the time after you left the hospital "done lengthening"
Did the time go quick for recovery.
Like 2 months just flew by and now you are almost walking again?
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10cm is easy, even kids do more
I see that they let you use internet at your institution but they clearly don't supervise the patients!
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I see that they let you use internet at your institution but they clearly don't supervise the patients!
ROFL! :)
10 cm is an unrealistic goal. in most cases it will end in a very bad way.
(6cm tibia , then 6 cm femur is a good goal.) (7.5cm if you are only doing 1 segment)(as a max)
if you want more than a little lengthening then you need to do 2 surgeries if for whatever reason you sit there and state reason after reason why you cant do 2 surgeries.........then.............. tuff fking luck lol be happy with a smaller goal.
if you a poor that does not make more lengthening on 1 segment safer.
if you have not got the time 2 lengthen 2 segments, that does not make more lengthening on 1 segment safer.
stop playing the numbers game because your trying to maximize the return for your investment on 1 surgery.
5 cm is a noticeable gain. and it will seem like less of an achievement if you have a greater psychological issue.
it all has to do with whether your height neurosis is driven by internal or external factors.
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Function over length is something to consider. If you find yourself with complications far before 10 cm then push your goal back to something more realistic for your body. Even if you do get to 10 cm it's going to take an insane amount of time to recover fully.
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very well said kilokahn.
I think 1 point to add which this thread has not mentioned (correct me if it has been mentioned)
is that like tall from old forum stated.
he got it think it was 11cm on femur and then had to go back and get an additional surgery for tibia because of the disproportional difference which would have resulted in arthritis in old age.
the reason I mention this is because I get the feeling that people who are aiming for 10 cm are doing so to maximize the outcome of 1 surgery because they don't want to get 2 surgeries.
however as I just stated if you lengthen that much in 1 section you HAVE TO then get the second segment lengthened or you will develop arthritis.
so lengthening this much to avoid getting 2 surgeries defeats the purpose because then you have to get a second surgery due to the change in proportions.
TALL FROM old forum
As some of you know I competed my Internal Femur LLing with Dr. Augustine Betz in Fall 2006. Since that time I have enjoyed my current height: 188CM. The height increase has been amazing! During the past few years I have been experiencing minor knee pain & discomfort. During various examinations by orthopedic doctors, I have been advised that in order to avoid future problems with my knees (arthritis) that I needed to correct the discrepancy between my femur/tibia ratio which was caused by my femur legthening. Don't get me wrong, I am very proud of my lengthening with Dr. Betz as I was his first 11CM patient. But, this confirms what I already knew & that was that most individuals should not legthen beyond 7.5 CM. I state this in most cases, as I know everyone's body is different and there are exceptions to the rule.
So I will be legthening both of my tibias separately by 6.5 CM with the new PRECICE nail
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Yes, RGKey looks fantastic. But, he had exceptionally short legs and a very big, broad upper body to begin with.
I have very short legs and an extremely large, broad-shouldered, long upper body (2 inches longer than the average 5'10 man). Here is a picture of me with 10 cm added to both the tibias and femurs (20 cm total).
So I don't think proportions will be a problem (I could care less about arm length); I'm just wondering about athletic ability.
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How are you doing my old forum friend ;D
I plan on doing the lengthening with Dr. Guichet using his internals; he claims I can make it to 10 cm, figuring I am very athletic. What do you guys think? Would 7-8 cm be better?
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very well said kilokahn.
I think 1 point to add which this thread has not mentioned (correct me if it has been mentioned)
is that like tall from old forum stated.
he got it think it was 11cm on femur and then had to go back and get an additional surgery for tibia because of the disproportional difference which would have resulted in arthritis in old age.
the reason I mention this is because I get the feeling that people who are aiming for 10 cm are doing so to maximize the outcome of 1 surgery because they don't want to get 2 surgeries.
however as I just stated if you lengthen that much in 1 section you HAVE TO then get the second segment lengthened or you will develop arthritis.
so lengthening this much to avoid getting 2 surgeries defeats the purpose because then you have to get a second surgery due to the change in proportions.
TALL FROM old forum
I definitely plan on lengthening the femurs 10 cm, too if you guys think it's safe. What do you think?
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I have very short legs and an extremely large, broad-shouldered, long upper body (2 inches longer than the average 5'10 man). Here is a picture of me with 10 cm added to both the tibias and femurs (20 cm total).
So I don't think proportions will be a problem (I could care less about arm length); I'm just wondering about athletic ability.
No your torso is short and you are not broad shouldered, just fat and stocky. Want proof? stand on a stool and mask your legs..Not so broad now are ya.
Also your wingspan is borderline midget i see a max increase of 6 cm before you start to look unproportional.
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Your muscle will never be explosive again after 10cm.
There is do much more to it than just bones and muscles.
It's frightening to see individuals totaly believe that 10cm is easy or that they wiLL Forumully recover. Christ!!
Being stronger after LL doesn't say more than the actual person can push more weights at the gym. Anyone can do that but jumping high or doing backflips is something different which he will never be able to do again.
To kick fast is also impossible after LL or to do a spinning round kick bc your longer leg breaks up the speed when you're spinning.
Not that you need to be able to do this, but 10cm is devastating for your body. It will also look very weird.
You might be right. My proportions can handle it, but it might be too much to recover from. I think I'll just go for about 7.5 cm on my femurs, then another 7.5 on my tibias to reach just under 6'1.
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No your torso is short and you are not broad shouldered, just fat and stocky. Want proof? stand on a stool and mask your legs..Not so broad now are ya.
Also your wingspan is borderline midget i see a max increase of 6 cm before you start to look unproportional.
No offense, buddy, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. First off, my torso is huge: I have a 98 cm sitting height (there average 5'9 man has a 91 cm sitting height). Second, I have a 23-24 inch shoulder breadth--and the average man has a 18 inch shoulder breadth. Third, I'm 11.6% bodyfat (Bod Pod tested), so I'm nowhere close to fat). Fourth and finally, my wingspan is 68 inches (about 1.5 inches more than my height), which is not "borderline midget" in any sense of the word.
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i don't want to offend you, but your torso look short, and you also look obese...
The picture make you look disproportionate, maybe if you lost weigh you would look better...
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No offense, buddy, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. First off, my torso is huge: I have a 98 cm sitting height (there average 5'9 man has a 91 cm sitting height). Second, I have a 23-24 inch shoulder breadth--and the average man has a 18 inch shoulder breadth. Third, I'm 11.6% bodyfat (Bod Pod tested), so I'm nowhere close to fat). Fourth and finally, my wingspan is 68 inches (about 1.5 inches more than my height), which is not "borderline midget" in any sense of the word.
You have a high sitting height because you are fat. And probably that Bod Pod was broken, because you are way toooo fat for 11.6% bodyfat and you won't be really able to lengthen too much because you have very short arms (your fingers aren't even close to your knees), maybe you can get away with 4-5cm but after that you will look like T-Rex.
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im confused. you said you were a stripper? are you sure you were not just pretending to be a stripper because its the internet?
also I don't want to offend you. but you are a little chunky, and your arms and upper body do not look long. perhaps if you take a different photo we can see better. take the photo in underwear only.
I can see you have got some muscles but you also have a lot of body fat.
sitting height means nothing. fat but = massive sitting height.
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im confused. you said you were a stripper? are you sure you were not just pretending to be a stripper because its the internet?
also I don't want to offend you. but you are a little chunky, and your arms and upper body do not look long. perhaps if you take a different photo we can see better. take the photo in underwear only.
I can see you have got some muscles but you also have a lot of body fat.
sitting height means nothing. fat but = massive sitting height.
Oh lol you were going off the picture. Nah, that's an old picture from when I was bulking for a powerlifting contest. I was 26% bodyfat then.
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No it doesn't. There is a golden ratio measurement from my feet to navel compared to my navel to head.
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You should upload an up to date picture. You don't look anything like a male stripper in the one that you posted earlier, I must say. Just blur your face and nobody will have a clue who you are.
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I guess I could. I might upload one tomorrow; I can't right now, because I'm in the gym.
Here is actually an older picture of me back in June:
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much better pic.
its just a shame that LL will destroy that muscle. :( im sure you will get it back when you finish LL though.
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Lol thanks
And, yeah, it'll probably wreck some havoc on my lower body (I should be able to maintain my upper body), but I should be able to get back all of my lower body strength in about six months or so after my bones have consolidated. "Muscle memory" (really just the previous stretching of the fascia) should get back my lower body muscles pretty quickly.
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Just measured my torso about five times using two different methods. First method came out with about 20 inches (51 cm) for my torso length, and the second one was about 22-23 inches (56-58 cm). That is about 3-5 inches larger than the average torso length of a 5'9-5'10 dude.
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Impressive upper body for sure. That kind of muscle will look great on a 6'1 frame and lengthened legs, if you can rebuild it after LL.
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I haven't followed the discussion but I would strongly advice against 10 cm in one surgery. I've been trying to learn of post-operation recovery and the more I read the more clear it is that lenghtening your legs should be approached very carefully.
That said it is possible to achieve 10 cm with relatively little risk if you divide it into two segments. I understand you're 5'10?
Then you would be roughly 188CM which is fairly tall and a very good heigth overall.
The next concern is how it's going to look. Judging by your pictures you have short legs indeed so that's not a issue and your shoulders look broad as well. However I think your arms look very short already and much out of proportion in the second photoshopped image. I'd say that's your problem -your arm lenght.
Measure your arms from the end of your middle finger to the top of the acromion bone, then divide that measurment by your height and you'll get a number like -0,424356..- that number should not be below 0,4 if it is then don't lenghten at all.
Try to figure out how you'll look in the mirror, maybe try standing on your toes or wear shoe lifts and try to figure out how much you would be willing to lenghten before it looks off. Good luck.
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I agree with most people on here in that your arms really are short, no joke.
If you end up doing 20cms altogether then you can bet your left nut you'll end up looking like a penguin in stilettos :-[
Heck you may even walk like one... I live smack bang in the middle of my city and its party central all night, every night and I see so many girls with small torsos walking around in 10-15cm heels, perhaps even more and they look so damn funny when they walk. Looks too unnatural
No point being that tall if you'll just end up looking abnormally weird, yes you can possibly hide it by dressing accordingly but even then it will still be a little off.
I understand you want to save money and are trying to come up with excuses to do 10cm tibias in one sitting but thats just unsafe, I too would like to save money and go crazy in one sitting but I wont, its simply too risky and you're pretty much gambling with your health. There's no price when it comes to health. Like a previous poster already said, if you dont have enough time and money to do 2 surgeries then too bad, do one
TL:DR - You will be the circus act if you go the full 20cms, guaranteed or your money back. You can put your mortgage on that ;D
Arms are simply not long enough, perhaps maybe if you decide to lengthen your arms as well. I know you said you dont care about your arm length but arm length WILL become a problem
Good luck though
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About 5'7, not 5'10. I think I'll do 7.6 cm instead of 10 cm.
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But mate be careful of lenghtening one bone that much. I know it's time consuming and costly but a few years after you'll be happier if you did 4 or 5 cm in two surgeries and you'll be plenty tall as well.
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readrothbard.
what is your timeline for LL surgery.
are you planning on doing tibia and femur back to back? and when do you plan on doing them?
I ask because LL seems important to you. and how much do you have saved already?
if you go with guitchet it will cost you so much money? maybe you could consider getting less cm and doing external femur?
im just throwing up ideas. it is important I think to at least discuss these ideas. otherwise you might turn into 1 of these guys who dreams of LL for the next 10 years.
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Arm length (wingspan) is only about 68 inches. I suppose I could do some arm lengthening if I "grew" to 6'1 or so (I could do about 0.75 inches per arm segment to have a total of a 71 inch wingspan). I'll do a mockup to 6'1 to see how my 68 inch wingspan would look.
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My plan is to get LL with Dr. Guichet in the summer of 2016 (possibly sooner). I'm going to do three inches on my tibias first (maybe femurs, first, depending on what the doctor says); I won't be doing tibias and femurs back to back. I'll probably be doing femurs two years or so after my tibias, depending about how much money goes.
Since I have only been at my new job since early September, and I'm only really able to work part-time, I have about $4,000 saved up. I should have close to $30,000 by June or so (depending upon how much work I get from the agency; I'm pretty new, so I'm only doing about 2 nights a week).
I don't really plan on doing external femurs; I'd rather splurge for internals with an experienced doctor like Dr. Guichet, especially since he has more experience with athletes, and his Gnail has a faster recovery time than externals (about 15 days per cm versus about 30-45 days per cm).
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I'd like to do about 15 cm altogether. I could probably pull off 7 cm on my tibias and 8 cm on my femurs if 7.6 cm is too much for my tibias. As long as I can grow another six inches, I'm good.
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I'd like to do about 15 cm altogether. I could probably pull off 7 cm on my tibias and 8 cm on my femurs if 7.6 cm is too much for my tibias. As long as I can grow another six inches, I'm good.
He is new...He'll come around.
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I'd like to do about 15 cm altogether. I could probably pull off 7 cm on my tibias and 8 cm on my femurs if 7.6 cm is too much for my tibias. As long as I can grow another six inches, I'm good.
7cm external tibia will take AT LEAST 10 months in frames, then 2 a few weeks on crutches and then a few months where you have be very careful, so your new bone won't break. Good luck with that.
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I'd like to do about 15 cm altogether. I could probably pull off 7 cm on my tibias and 8 cm on my femurs if 7.6 cm is too much for my tibias. As long as I can grow another six inches, I'm good.
You need to cut that estimate in half. Maximum lenghtening I would recommend is 5+5 cm isn't that enough?
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7cm external tibia will take AT LEAST 10 months in frames, then 2 a few weeks on crutches and then a few months where you have be very careful, so your new bone won't break. Good luck with that.
I'm doing internals with Dr. Guichet. I would never use externals--they take far too long.
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Probably not, unfortunately. 5+5 would only put me at 5'10.5. I want to at least reach 6'0. Dr. Paley seems to advise 6.5 cm on the tibias and 8 cm on the femurs as pretty safe, so I think 7 cm on the tibias and 8 cm on the femurs should be fine; 7 cm should only take about 22 weeks total (distraction and consolidation) with Dr. Guichet, and 8 cm would only be about 25 weeks.
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you don't have a choice for external tibia.
your going to be stuck in frames for a long time. so that excuse doesn't really work.
you already know my recommendation is 6cm tibia, and 5-6cm femur (depending on flexibility).
12cm would get you to 5"11.5
all I can say is if you want to spend that much money on internal frames then fine. but always remember that you can get 12cm from external only for 30k combined(tibia and femur 15k each). that would be my personal recommendation. and it can be done back to back as lon femur can be done while wearing the frames for external tibia.
you are choosing to spend 65K instead of 15k for femur. that also doesn't cover all the other expenses like medication and PT and so on.
so your choosing to spend like 50-80k more for femur by choice. and the only difference is the 5-6cm for external vs the 8cm internal femur.
i don't think that 2-3cm is worth and extra 50-80 thousand dollars.
plus you wont need to wait years and years if you get it back to back, and you wont have to wait years to save the money.
i am curious to your opinion on this information.
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It isn't really the extra length that I'm looking for with the extra price of Guichet--externals can do that just fine. It's the combination of the fact that the G nail lengthens faster, is weight-bearing, offers faster recovery, and that Dr. Guichet's team is better suited towards dealing with athletes that other externals doctors I've looked at.
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I don't see a reason why. As someone stated, you still have the rods in your legs and you're also not at the 2 years mark, so you're recovering still.
Honestly, that makes zero sense to me, but then again I don't kick. I mean, if you say your longer leg breaks up the speed, wouldn't that mean that someone with naturally long legs won't be able to kick as fast?
That's what I was thinking, too. There is a study on PubMed about the recovery of muscular strength and power in Ilizarov patients; the patients eventually recovered all of their muscular strength and power in their legs, but it took them two years after the external fixators were removed. The patients had lengthened between 3-8.6 cm (average was about 6.7 cm, I believe). Of course, if you are doing internals, you would likely recover in half the time.
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That being said, and combined with other reading I have done, I think I'll settle for 7 cm on my tibias. Then, I'll do about 8 cm on my femurs, as the femurs have a higher tolerance for lengthening.
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I actually do have a very large upper body with broad shoulders. I have a shoulder breadth of 23 inches and a 21-22 inch torso length (average for the American male is 18 inches). If proportions were a problem, I don't think I'll be too bad off.
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I actually do have a very large upper body with broad shoulders. I have a shoulder breadth of 23 inches and a 21-22 inch torso length (average for the American male is 18 inches). If proportions were a problem, I don't think I'll be too bad off.
Go for it bro
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Go for it bro
Is that sarcasm?
Anyways, I don't think I'd go for 10 cm on the tibias, anyways. Even with internals, that is simply too long of a wait to return to heavy free-weights, cycling, and calisthenics. I'll opt for 7 cm on the tibias; I think that is a safe and manageable goal for a doctor like Guichet.
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do you have the money atleast, because paley+guichet=100 000-120 000 dollars i wonder who
can afford two surgeries with both.
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do you have the money atleast, because paley+guichet=100 000-120 000 dollars i wonder who
can afford two surgeries with both.
Exactly, Guichet is expensive, Paley is just a complete rip off/robbery if anything.
Guichet's price all up with be close to $100,000, if not over. $65,000 for Guichet is the bare minimum and simply not enough, and dont forget his jaw dropping $10,000 for nail removal ???
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Guichet's price all up with be close to $100,000
I think the 100k figure was derived from peoples experience. does anyone remember which diary outlines the price.
either way as much as I love LL I could never justify the price of a house to get surgery.
think about it. in life all you really need to ever do is buy a house and then you can retire to part time work for the rest of your life.
why would you spend that money on LL surgery instead of retire for the rest of your life. it never made sense to me. doing a 9-5 job like a slave to pay a mortgage to a bank for the rest of your life. I will never understand paying that much for surgery when you don't have to.
instead I will own my own home and get a cheap external surgery, while others can not own a home and pay all that money to the surgery. and in the end the only difference will be the way we both got taller. even if I could afford a home and LL, I would rather buy a second home with that money because the doctor prices are just rip offs.
my motto is why pay a boat load of money for no reason.
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I think guichet and paley should be considered if you want to add more than 6 cm in each segment, but if you only consider 3-6 cm, you should opt for a cheaper doctor (like the russian ones for example)
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You can buy a house for $100,000? Lucky you, where Im from its $1.5 mil minimum
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I think ShyShy said he only spent around $60,000.
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I think the 100k figure was derived from peoples experience. does anyone remember which diary outlines the price.
either way as much as I love LL I could never justify the price of a house to get surgery.
think about it. in life all you really need to ever do is buy a house and then you can retire to part time work for the rest of your life.
why would you spend that money on LL surgery instead of retire for the rest of your life. it never made sense to me. doing a 9-5 job like a slave to pay a mortgage to a bank for the rest of your life. I will never understand paying that much for surgery when you don't have to.
instead I will own my own home and get a cheap external surgery, while others can not own a home and pay all that money to the surgery. and in the end the only difference will be the way we both got taller. even if I could afford a home and LL, I would rather buy a second home with that money because the doctor prices are just rip offs.
my motto is why pay a boat load of money for no reason.
Theres lengthening your legs..Then theres lengthening your legs reailty check 2.0.
Expensive-cheap.
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hey slim tim. you said you want LL in feb.
where do you plan on going? are you going to write a diary?
good luck.
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Here is a picture of me (as of today) with 10 cm on my tibias and femurs (first picture).
The second picture is 7.6 cm on my tibias and my femurs (15.2 cm/6 inches total).
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I only see one picture posted. You should post your original picture too so that we can compare it to your mockups.
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Ok, sorry. Here is the original (first one) and another with 7.6 cm per segment (second one):
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Looks pretty normal to me.
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it looks really good :)
but you need humerus lengthening because your arms are short. :(
ps stick to 7.5cm per segment. 7.5cm per segment for 2 segments is the absolute maximum. and even then it may be impossible to prevent a partial loss of function at that amount.
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I most likely will only be sticking to a max limit of 15 cm total (7 on tibias and 8 cm on femurs), but, like you said, I could do a little bit of arm lengthening to 70 inches. It could also help some in amateur boxing, which I have been trying to get into.
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You can buy a house for $100,000? Lucky you, where Im from its $1.5 mil minimum
I live in Tampa and you can buy a crack shack for $100k but a house worth living in costs you 300k to 500k easily.
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does anyone ever understand an argument based on principle. this is not necessarily a literal statement in every case.
also 100k is for femurs only. if you get the full deal tibia, femur and humerus(which I can assure you will need if you get 15cm between both leg segments)
then it quite quickly adds up. also depending on the doctor you could end up spending 150k or more just on femur which has been reported by people who went with paley.
so my point still stands you could very easily spend 300k between all 3 surgeries if the situation warrants it(or close to it).
you can buy a house for 300k. why in gods name would I spend even 2 thirds the cost of a house on leg lengthening when I could almost own a house.
even if the amount you spend is not quite the cost of a house it could very easily be close to it by the time you are done if you go with an massively overpriced expensive doctor and/or get complications which are not covered.
why would you spend that much money when you could spend 30-45k on a world class surgeon and end up with the same results and own a home. it might not be a mansion but you can still semi retire in that "cheap" home.
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does anyone ever understand an argument based on principle. this is not necessarily a literal statement in every case.
also 100k is for femurs only. if you get the full deal tibia, femur and humerus(which I can assure you will need if you get 15cm between both leg segments)
then it quite quickly adds up. also depending on the doctor you could end up spending 150k or more just on femur which has been reported by people who went with paley.
so my point still stands you could very easily spend 300k between all 3 surgeries if the situation warrants it(or close to it).
you can buy a house for 300k. why in gods name would I spend even 2 thirds the cost of a house on leg lengthening when I could almost own a house.
even if the amount you spend is not quite the cost of a house it could very easily be close to it by the time you are done if you go with an massively overpriced expensive doctor and/or get complications which are not covered.
why would you spend that much money when you could spend 30-45k on a world class surgeon and end up with the same results and own a home. it might not be a mansion but you can still semi retire in that "cheap" home.
Go for a cheap doctor if you want, but don't be suprised if he cripples your legs.
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Go for a cheap doctor if you want, but don't be suprised if he cripples your legs
go for an expensive over priced doctor if you want. but don't be surprised if you throw away money needlessly. if you want to get ripped off that is your choice.
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go for an expensive over priced doctor if you want. but don't be surprised if you throw away money needlessly. if you want to get ripped off that is your choice.
In my opinion legs>money, but I guess everyone is different. And btw. they don't rip you off, prices in world first countries are of course higher than in India or China...
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In my opinion legs>money, but I guess everyone is different. And btw. they don't rip you off, prices in world first countries are of course higher than in India or China...
hence rip off.
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hence rip off.
Not really.
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actually the medical system is a basterdised version of care which has been corruptly driven up deliberately by insurance companies who influence legislation via financing political parties. medical care or surgery is not suppose to ever cost this amount. yes they are fking you. you are getting ripped of. if you think this is normal, then you suffer from a condition known as normalcy bias.
as for legs>money. money does not give better results. the surgeon does. I can spend far less and still get the same if not better results. india is a bad example because those 2 doctors are not even leg lengthening doctors, sringari is a freakin joint replacement surgeon for crying out loud. money does not equate better medical care, America spends more than all other countries combined on its health care system or some ridiculous figure like that and the citizens in America have a longevity which is lower than many others.
in short Americas prices are over inflated, they spend more money, and their citizens are on average more diseased and debilitated. money does not solve the problem. good doctors with good training do. and no doctors in America are not trained to cure people, they are trained to treat the symptoms of disease. so they are NOT good doctors. they need to be re trained. money does not buy results. good doctors do. and good doctors don't need to cost 2000 times more.
your attitude is that unless you give away a boat load of money then the doctor is not good. that is ridiculous. I did not know that a doctors reputation is dependent on him ripping you off. in that case I will quickly tell my doctor to increase his price by 10 times so that you can consider him a professional. :)
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actually the medical system is a basterdised version of care which has been corruptly driven up deliberately by insurance companies who influence legislation via financing political parties. medical care or surgery is not suppose to ever cost this amount. yes they are f**king you. you are getting ripped of. if you think this is normal, then you suffer from a condition known as normalcy bias.
as for legs>money. money does not give better results. the surgeon does. I can spend far less and still get the same if not better results. india is a bad example because those 2 doctors are not even leg lengthening doctors, sringari is a freakin joint replacement surgeon for crying out loud. money does not equate better medical care, America spends more than all other countries combined on its health care system or some ridiculous figure like that and the citizens in America have a longevity which is lower than many others.
in short Americas prices are over inflated, they spend more money, and their citizens are on average more diseased and debilitated. money does not solve the problem. good doctors with good training do. and no doctors in America are not trained to cure people, they are trained to treat the symptoms of disease. so they are NOT good doctors. they need to be re trained. money does not buy results. good doctors do. and good doctors don't need to cost 2000 times more.
your attitude is that unless you give away a boat load of money then the doctor is not good. that is ridiculous. I did not know that a doctors reputation is dependent on him ripping you off. in that case I will quickly tell my doctor to increase his price by 10 times so that you can consider him a professional. :)
I was talking about first world countries, not America ;D
But you're right, higher prices doesn't equal to better medical care. But still I'm talking about central european countries, an operation+hospital stay will cost you a load of money, not because they want to rip you off, it's because it's expensive (anesthesia, operation room, food, physio, cleaning and much much more). I know because I did that (they send me a bill with all the expenses) and I DIDN'T EVEN PAY my surgeon a salary for the op because he's a good guy, still it was expensive but not a rip off.
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does anyone ever understand an argument based on principle. this is not necessarily a literal statement in every case.
also 100k is for femurs only. if you get the full deal tibia, femur and humerus(which I can assure you will need if you get 15cm between both leg segments)
then it quite quickly adds up. also depending on the doctor you could end up spending 150k or more just on femur which has been reported by people who went with paley.
so my point still stands you could very easily spend 300k between all 3 surgeries if the situation warrants it(or close to it).
you can buy a house for 300k. why in gods name would I spend even 2 thirds the cost of a house on leg lengthening when I could almost own a house.
even if the amount you spend is not quite the cost of a house it could very easily be close to it by the time you are done if you go with an massively overpriced expensive doctor and/or get complications which are not covered.
why would you spend that much money when you could spend 30-45k on a world class surgeon and end up with the same results and own a home. it might not be a mansion but you can still semi retire in that "cheap" home.
Which surgeon would you recommend, then?
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Dr Leonid N.Solomin (St. Petersburg, Russia)
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How long would that take for 7-8 cm, then? I know it's about a month per cm for traditional Ilizarov, but I'm unaware by how much Lon quickens recovery time.
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Paley may give you piece of mind and thats not to say you wont get complications with him, though the odds are probably less. But nonetheless, Paley is a complete rip off.
How is it that a doctor like say Dr Birkholtz from South Africa or Dr Parihar from India can charge roughly $50,000 and $45,000 respectively for the same Precice nails but when it comes to Paley its a hulking $100,000 to $150,000 for the same surgery....? I suspect greed being a major factor...
Paleys Precice nails must have been made from Mount Olympus by the Gods and shipped Express to him.... Cause they sure do cost hell of a lot more than others
Piece of mind is piece of mind but a RIP OFF IS STILL A RIP OFF
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I might have to do humerus lengthening of about 1.5 inches per arm with the Gnail. That would give me a 5'11 wingspan, which should also be good for deadlifts.
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Your muscle will never be explosive again after 10cm.
There is do much more to it than just bones and muscles.
It's frightening to see individuals totaly believe that 10cm is easy or that they wiLL Forumully recover. Christ!!
Being stronger after LL doesn't say more than the actual person can push more weights at the gym. Anyone can do that but jumping high or doing backflips is something different which he will never be able to do again.
To kick fast is also impossible after LL or to do a spinning round kick bc your longer leg breaks up the speed when you're spinning.
Not that you need to be able to do this, but 10cm is devastating for your body. It will also look very weird.
Your assumptions are based on what? Present us some references or source, instead of acting as a self-proclaimed specialist/orthopedic in this topic. Don't be all negative and a prick just because you failed your miserably LL journey.
It's true proportion might be out of balance. Regarding lengthening 10 cm, many doctors advocate against it. But surely its possible as I have been heard several people successfully doing it. there are no criteria to be fulfilled, you just have to gamble and hope your body can take the hit. What can matter is age, soft tissue attachment, level of physio training and what method the clinician used. Every persons anatomy is unique and unlike others. The more lengthening the more risk of complication.
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Your assumptions are based on what? Present us some references or source, instead of acting as a self-proclaimed specialist/orthopedic in this topic. Don't be all negative and a prick just because you failed your miserably LL journey.
It's true proportion might be out of balance. Regarding lengthening 10 cm, many doctors advocate against it. But surely its possible as I have been heard several people successfully doing it. there are no criteria to be fulfilled, you just have to gamble and hope your body can take the hit. What can matter is age, soft tissue attachment, level of physio training and what method the clinician used. Every persons anatomy is unique and unlike others. The more lengthening the more risk of complication.
Do 10cm on tibiaz and if you can even walk normally then you should consider yourself truly lucky.
If you lengthen so much you should do a massive atl to correct your equinus which means you forget anything else except from slow and unstable walking.
To make it even wirse the biomechanics of your leg will be so off that even walking could be hard.
And all these without complications like malunioms etc.
No respectable doctor will let you lengthen anything more than 7-8 (which is very much) cm in tibias.
If you are not a "prick and negative" you could do it and write your experience to us.
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@body builder
Well, I certainly have no reason to do it, but there are those who have done it successfully. You seem not to anderstand the context of my post.
Duh, didn't I write that doctors won't recommend it? Of course there can be major complications even if you do 5 cm but chances are less of course.
You seem ignorant and negative just as Sweden. Even a retard knows that practicing martial arts post LL is plain stupidity, due to altered biomechanics. Yes! 10 cm Is way out of line but for some it's not impossible.
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@body builder
Well, I certainly have no reason to do it, but there are those who have done it successfully. You seem not to anderstand the context of my post.
Duh, didn't I write that doctors won't recommend it? Of course there can be major complications even if you do 5 cm but chances are less of course.
You seem ignorant and negative just as Sweden. Even a retard knows that practicing martial arts post LL is plain stupidity, due to altered biomechanics. Yes! 10 cm Is way out of line but for some it's not impossible.
Could you tell me 1 that have done it successfully?
I am a veteral LL'er like Sweden and know how difficult is to do anything more than 7cm. 10 cm is insane to being able to function normally, even walk normally will be hard.
So no, it is not impossible, even 12 cm are possible.
Impossible will be to function normally after that.
And me,Sweden and any other tibia's veteran know much better about what their talking about compared to a newbie like you.
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You revive a 2 yeard old thread for what exactly? If you can do it then go for it. Or if its not even your goal to do this amount then I dont see why you care if people think its doable or not. Here is a post from a diary of Dr. Barinov that shows the issues of pushing yourself to those limitis.
Two patients were lengthening at the clinic and the doctor told them to stop at 6cm. The doctor’s would not treat them if they continued to lengthen and even took away the lengthening keys. The patients left the clinic, got an apartment nearby and went to the hardware store and bought a spanner so that they could turn the screws themselves and continue lengthening without any medical supervision. They lengthened to 11cm and 12cm respectively on their tibias. They then returned to the clinic weeks later and expected the doctor’s to correct what had clearly gone wrong. They could barely move! They became severely depressed but the doctor’s still took care of them as best they could.
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Could you tell me 1 that have done it successfully?
I am a veteral LL'er like Sweden and know how difficult is to do anything more than 7cm. 10 cm is insane to being able to function normally, even walk normally will be hard.
So no, it is not impossible, even 12 cm are possible.
Impossible will be to function normally after that.
And me,Sweden and any other tibia's veteran know much better about what their talking about compared to a newbie like you.
Yes, I know but I cannot disclose their identities. You just have to take my word for it.
With all due respect just because you have posted some 500+ Post doesn't make you a veteran or somehow entitled physician in this field. I find you too be an extremely stubborn person. I'm just saying to stop with these negativity especially remarks by "sweden"
LL surgery is not easy and beyond 7 Cm is hard but not impossible. You need to take in consideration the clinician performing it, bone anatomy/density, muscular/tendon attachments, hormone levels, normal CBC etc. Every person is unique.
Disagree, of course you cannot practice taekwando or martial arts shortly after LL. Thats just stupid. Besides I've read that Sweden had some ankle injury which surely can effect the outcome. I've also read people walking shortly after surgery or not following doctors advice during lengthening.
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You revive a 2 yeard old thread for what exactly? If you can do it then go for it. Or if its not even your goal to do this amount then I dont see why you care if people think its doable or not. Here is a post from a diary of Dr. Barinov that shows the issues of pushing yourself to those limitis.
Two patients were lengthening at the clinic and the doctor told them to stop at 6cm. The doctor’s would not treat them if they continued to lengthen and even took away the lengthening keys. The patients left the clinic, got an apartment nearby and went to the hardware store and bought a spanner so that they could turn the screws themselves and continue lengthening without any medical supervision. They lengthened to 11cm and 12cm respectively on their tibias. They then returned to the clinic weeks later and expected the doctor’s to correct what had clearly gone wrong. They could barely move! They became severely depressed but the doctor’s still took care of them as best they could.
This topic highlights 10 cm not 11 or 12 cm. besides what do we know about this Clinician and how was the medical conditions of these patients? Many things are lacking in your post. However, we can agree that 11-12 cm is to much for tibia.
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Yes, I know but I cannot disclose their identities. You just have to take my word for it.
With all due respect just because you have posted some 500+ Post doesn't make you a veteran or somehow entitled physician in this field. I find you too be an extremely stubborn person. I'm just saying to stop with these negativity especially remarks by "sweden"
LL surgery is not easy and beyond 7 Cm is hard but not impossible. You need to take in consideration the clinician performing it, bone anatomy/density, muscular/tendon attachments, hormone levels, normal CBC etc. Every person is unique.
Disagree, of course you cannot practice taekwando or martial arts shortly after LL. Thats just stupid. Besides I've read that Sweden had some ankle injury which surely can effect the outcome. I've also read people walking shortly after surgery or not following doctors advice during lengthening.
I am a veteran not because I have a number of posts here but because I did LL and maybe before any other active member here.
Have you done LL? Because you speak with disrespect for people who know about LL because they have done it.
So who are you to know more than me or any other veteran about what is possible or not?
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This topic highlights 10 cm not 11 or 12 cm. besides what do we know about this Clinician and how was the medical conditions of these patients? Many things are lacking in your post. However, we can agree that 11-12 cm is too much for the tibia.
Having done 10 instead of 11 or 12 would not have made a difference when they already went and did a ridiculous amount. What exactly makes 10 cm not too much? They were initially in the clinic and had almost daily visits from the doctor. You bring up that it is possible and that's true but why would go against the doctor's orders. Even a quack doctor from India will know far more about the procedure and when you should shop. There is a reason why the majority of doctors never recommend to this ridiculous amount of 10 cm in surgery. So no one can tell someone that they have to lengthen less but they can certainly advise them to not take these extra risk when they can do another surgery down the line. And bodybuilder is a veteran for actually having done the surgery and has shared the complications he has faced including having to get Atl surgery to fix his issues. He advices against this amount because he can say from firsthand expirience how even at 7 cm he suffered alot of complications let alone if he had pushed to 10 cm.
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With 10cm lengthening it is impossible to avoid atl surgery which decreases your athletic capabilities much more than LL itself.
Only that, without the change in biomechanics etc is enough to never consider these amounts of lengthening.
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With 10cm lengthening it is impossible to avoid atl surgery which decreases your athletic capabilities much more than LL itself.
Only that, without the change in biomechanics etc is enough to never consider these amounts of lengthening.
Please, pay attention to my post and read it again. I've said you have to take in consideration muscular and tendon attachment. This is just tiny aspect as there are many things than can go wrong.
Thousands of people are performing LL annually. It all depends on your anatomical features, clinician, age etc whether u can go for 10 or not.
Bodybuilder, you cannot speak on behalf of Others just because yours and swedens LL had a bad outcome.
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Please, pay attention to my post and read it again. I've said you have to take in consideration muscular and tendon attachment. This is just tiny aspect as there are many things than can go wrong. Thousands of people are propably performing
LL annually. It all depend on your anatomical features, clinician, age etc whether u can go for 10 or not.
Bodybuilder you cannot speak on behalf of Others just because yours and swedens LL had a bad outcome.
I had a mediocre outcome which will be better than average after my last fix surgery which seems to work good.
But regardless of that, I don't know anyone who did 10cm and had a good outcome.
And you can't speak of behalf of noone as you haven't even done LL.
Simple as that.
You don't have to take into consideration anything.
10cm in tibias for 99,99 % of people will be a suicide.
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10 CM IN 1 TIME is very difficult
after is nescessary lengthening femur because you tibia is very very long
i remenber the patient of docteur guichet 6 cm in tibia the disproportion is real the femur very short imagine 10 cm is nescesary femur 8 cm after minimum
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bodybuilder is nice persone 6 CM MAYBY 7cm in tibia is maximum
for the femur maximun is 7.5 - 8 cm very maximum
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Body Builder does the bone not fully heal in time wether its 10cm you added in the tibia or 7cm.
The way I always thought it worked was that the bone (no matter how much the lenghthening) fully healed after some time. Is this not the case?
I'm not talking about proportions but the bone itself.
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Body Builder does the bone not fully heal in time wether its 10cm you added in the tibia or 7cm.
The way I always thought it worked was that the bone (no matter how much the lenghthening) fully healed after some time. Is this not the case?
I'm not talking about proportions but the bone itself.
Bone heals fully.
But the change in biomechanics is big and the longer you lengthen the more the difference and the body can't adapt.
So with 10cm in femurs or even more in tibias I can guarantee that noone can even walk with a completely normal gait after LL and he could never run fast again.
10cm are huge in one segment, everything more than 7-8 cm is suicidal.
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9cm in femur and tibia? i just want that 6feet.
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You lived as 1.65 which is very short for a man and you are so vain to not be ok with an excellent height like 5.10-5.10,5 which would change your life dramatically but you want to ruin your body for achieving 6ft.
Your legs your decisions. Good luck to you.
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This is one crazy sick thread. So sad to see these people writing here on LL Forum.
You should really listen to me or Body Builder.
I can assure you that I can do more today than most people in here ever could in their entire life in sports.
That doesn’t mean I recovered back to 100%.