Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: zakika on July 30, 2018, 01:58:21 PM
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Opposite to my previous standpoint, I'll share my experience briefly so far, to write as objectively as possible.
All went fine so far, I'm doing TSF-tibia 5 cm with Giotikas in Athens. I'm at post op day 3, pain comes and goes, I was standing on my feet with walker yesterday, today was walking already a bit (very slowly, and carefully). The frame is quite heavy, didn't expect it, and I think my muscles are not really built enough just to handle it easily. Knee flexibility is quite good, toes-ankles too, however I feel, that my ankles are quite weak (had injuries when I was younger and playing soccer, mainly sprain, some partial tear), and sore, however I know I'm only post op day 3, still would like to make sure is stable, as lengthening will start in couple of days.
Any opinion experience guys, how to strengthen ankles (the feeling is a bit burning-tiring feeling mixed with a slight spraining sensation when stretched, or dorsiflexed)?
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Dont worry, first few days are the worst. You body will adapt to the frames. Make sure you do your physio and walk as much as you can handle the pain. You legs will get stronger with the frames just make sure you eat a lot. Its extremely important that your body have enough nutrition to maintain good recovery. I was cooking everyday dinner for myself while using a walker. So make sure you push yourself.
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Thanks Doomsday, I'm eating the hospital meal (which is quite delicious, and healthy), plus here protein bar, but will use protein shakes as well. I showed Giotikas all the vitamins, supplements I'm planning to take (Vit D, silica, Zinc, Vit B,C, Mg2+, K2 if won't interfere with bleeding and couple of more..), was a bit shocked :), and said that I won't need them, just in case the important ones I'll take.
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Great to see the first Giotikas diary !
Be strong and keep us updated man !
What is your starting height ? You mentioned you played football,do you have muscular calves ? Were you flexible before surgery ?
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I'm around 170-171, I didn't play professionally for longer, but played a lot, and the ligaments were quite loose. I think if you know why you're doing you have to pay attention, this is a bumpy road, just have to be realistic (it is not us, who determines the endpoint, but our bodies). My calves are muscular, but not overly muscular, and did the stretching exercises before the surgery (however, could've done it a lot earlier, mistake!), and felt how much more flexible I became. I think I'll be prone to ballerina, so Dr Giotikas organised an anti-ballerina holder, that I'll have to wear from the very beginning.
What I could've done better is stretching, but I'll do it everyday during these days as well. Another question came up, I'll workout for my upper body, just to maintain a general lymph drainage, and maybe use a rehab machine for the thighs.
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good luck my friend :D
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Finally a Giotikas dairy! I wish you the best mate and do your exercises dillegently.
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Thanks guys!
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Thanks guys!
All the best buddy. Giotikas is a target for me (I will do 5.5 cm tibia external, 7 CM femur stryde - sometime next year) and I eagerly look forward to your journey. Can you please advise how much total will be approximate budget (including rent, food, medicine etc.) from the day of tibia surgery to the day of full consolidation of femur (in other words total approximate spend for the whole journey).
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Gotikas himself is a quite serious person, his colleague (they are operating together) is a quite meticulous doctor (at least he seems to be :), so I feel he is a good option, but it doesn't mean complications will be absent. I stay in the hospital a bit longer (actually I was chicken to leave sooner, as they offered), either you can stay her (150 EUR/day) or Theseus rehab centre 146 EUR/day (1800 EUR/2weeks), so they are not cheap, but for me safety comes first, and didn't i tend to do the surgery in the US.
How much in total, hard to predict, I calculate with a slower regeneration, and callus formation as they plan (they plan to stop lengthening at the end of October for 5 cm), I calculate at least a month delay (for safety again). After than consolidation 3 months again, so earliest possible for me end of Feb will be the stryde implantation, from there to walk unassisted I think I have to calculate 4 months at least for 5 cm femur. So I will be staying in Athens until next summer June-July. If all goes better, just a bonus, but I personally don't think there won't be at least minimal complications (at least my mindset). So briefly hard to predict, but food-accommodation is quite cheap in Athens (a flat/month from 450-650 USD eg.), in numbers I plan to spend around 70k EUR for everything (TSF+Stryde+accomodation..).
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Gotikas himself is a quite serious person, his colleague (they are operating together) is a quite meticulous doctor (at least he seems to be :), so I feel he is a good option, but it doesn't mean complications will be absent. I stay in the hospital a bit longer (actually I was chicken to leave sooner, as they offered), either you can stay her (150 EUR/day) or Theseus rehab centre 146 EUR/day (1800 EUR/2weeks), so they are not cheap, but for me safety comes first, and didn't i tend to do the surgery in the US.
How much in total, hard to predict, I calculate with a slower regeneration, and callus formation as they plan (they plan to stop lengthening at the end of October for 5 cm), I calculate at least a month delay (for safety again). After than consolidation 3 months again, so earliest possible for me end of Feb will be the stryde implantation, from there to walk unassisted I think I have to calculate 4 months at least for 5 cm femur. So I will be staying in Athens until next summer June-July. If all goes better, just a bonus, but I personally don't think there won't be at least minimal complications (at least my mindset). So briefly hard to predict, but food-accommodation is quite cheap in Athens (a flat/month from 450-650 USD eg.), in numbers I plan to spend around 70k EUR for everything (TSF+Stryde+accomodation..).
Thanks man, what kind of Visa is needed for such a long medical stay in Greece (I am not an EU or US citizen)?
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Don't know about that, you should ask your embassy for EU/Greece.
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Don't know about that, you should ask your embassy for EU/Greece.
ok, thanks
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Great start zakika, looking forward to your updates!
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Did you meet any of his CLL patients? If yes, how are they doing?
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I too would like and should work from him .. so if you do in February do you know Stryde since it will be available this nail for Dr. Giotikas? From February or even before? and you know if Stryde, like dr Paley, Giotikas also will only pay 5k more than the Precise2? thanks friend
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Did you meet any of his CLL patients? If yes, how are they doing?
+1 to the question.
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Did you meet any of his CLL patients? If yes, how are they doing?
I saw he wrote that he did, in his previous thread regarding his consultation
Guys, I had my consultation with Dr Giotikas.... I met two of his patients with Precise femur, looked fine, are in the early phase. So basically he seems to be a good, safe option.
When my surgery approaches I will stay away from the forum, not willing to report or so, or answer questions.
We all thank you for changing your mind on staying away from the forum, this is the first Giotikas diary so we’re very eager to hear any details you are willing to share.
God speed brother, I plan to be there myself for surgery early next year, I hope I run into you
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Thanks Bonez!
Tonight sleeping was really good (in contrary with yesterday, when I didn't ask for painkillers, and the pain kicked in around 2:00 AM, so I was just lying in bed, was really stupid). Today in the morning it was really uncomfortable to move, my legs, ankles feel really stiff, and painful when moving (the same with pin insertion sites proximally (below knee on tib-fib), I feel like I would need more passive motion PT, and active afterwards.
An update: one of the guys I met in June (Giotikas Precise patient) who lengthened 5 cm is done with lengthening, and will travel back to the States I suppose early Aug. The other guy (7 cm) is still lengthening I guess (they started approx. the same time).
Next year I think we'll meet, I will hopefully be finished with tibia 5cm, and will start Stryde as soon as possible (regarding how exhausted I'll be).
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It is not confirmed yet, when Stryde will precisely available, but we were already talking about the 2nd surgery, and he seems quite sure, with the frame removal he will be able to insert Stryde the same time. He calculates it this year, but I have a feeling that my recovery will be slower, or at least I'll be as careful as possible, ad won't run with it, time is imprtant for me, but when it's about health it is secondary.
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Yea that would be great! What kind of pain killers are they giving you? They say the beginning is the hardest part, hopefully you will be over that hump soon. Are you doing this by yourself or did you bring a family member or friend to help you?
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I'm by myself, so it is harder alone, but wasn't sure how others would handle this - by itself hard - situation, and on the bad days it would create more pressure. Yes, but as I see on others the pain will be always there, only sometimes better, sometimes worse. So I think I won't be over the pain, it is not the right approach, just have to condition myself to bear it, it is quite logical, without pain (of course the intensity is subjective) you can't lengthen your tissues. Hence someone undergoing this journey rather has to strengthen him/herself mentally.
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Wishing you the best. TSF is great.
Good luck!
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Thank you myloginacc. I just came back from walking with a walker, was surprised, it went significantly better, than yesterday despite the fact that I feel quite exhausted. Tiny steps...
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It’s great that your already making progress. Hopefully each day you’ll be getting better.
So it looks like your timeline is 7 month to lengthen and consolidate tibias 5cm, then 4 months for 5 cm with stryde in femurs for 11 months total. That seems like a reasonable timeline, I am sure you’ll reach your goal
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Thanks man, yes, it is my approximation, but we have to calculate bumps on the way (if I'll need more time for lengthening, won't hesitate or rush), just for staying on the ground.
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Post op day 5
A short update, I'm already walking alone, and my hunger is gradually increasing (today ate everything they put in front of me, plus asked someone to buy me protein bars, until I cannot make shake for me), I suppose as pain level diminishes. Yesterday was walking with a walker 3 times, today already 3 times, had my physio, and will walk at least once tonight (however the PT, and the fellow doc encouraged me to be patient, not to overtrain, and to relax muscles planned as well). I feel my ankles are weak, but significantly stronger than on post op day 1. The staff is very supportive, I was talking with the PT to start to train for the upper body, and he immediately started to organise me dumbbells, plus tools for making the physio for myself besides the morning session. So far so good. Oh, and I'm drinking a lot of water as well (like 3 liters/day appr.)!
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Sounds like your doing good buddy, keep up the fight ;)
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I wanted to share a photo from the frames, but doesn't go through (adjusted size as well).
Day6
Yesterday I pushed too hard an found myself on the short end, was really exhausted for 6 PM+the pain level increased significantly. I was directed to only walk with the PT. I think it is a wise order. At the end of the day I finally fell asleep around midnight (after I received the only IV painkiller (Tramadol) during the day - they continuously diminished, and switched to tablets -), but the nurses came in and out continuously, so my sleep was quite scattered, and minimal. In the morning I felt the lack of sleep (headache, dullness), so I try to sleep more today during the day. I feel, that I want to push it, but without a proper amount and quality of sleep+food it can be a lot slower. So have to build a schedule for proper timing for sleep, eating, and starting to get back to work to direct my attention a bit away from the process during the day (however timing when pain kicks in is not easy :). I think I will post from time to time, but not as frequently as now.
Good luck for the lengtheners!
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Post op day 7
I started the lengthening today (after 7 hour of sleep yay :). The plan is 1mm/day (I did 0.25 already as the first "round"), but we will see how is it going, I won't mind 0.75 or lower if neccessary.
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good. usually immediately after the operation a few mm you already earn it. In your case, how tall are you now?
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Around 171 cm (around 5'7).
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How’s day 8 coming along? It’s great that you were able to sleep well. Do you feel any more pain now that you’ve started lengthening? You are officially taller!! Lol
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Day 8
Had my PT today, my thighs getting already thinner, the therapist said I shouldn't worry about it (I mentioned him I'll have Stryde after this). I'm walking more with every day. Sleep was not perfect, as I already didn't get IV medication, only tablets, plus sc LMWH. The pin sites are all clean, but Dimitrios said it is quite possible, that I will experience some inflammation/infection, in this case oral antibiotics will help. Pain level is ok (I don't know how to rate, as it is quite subjective), but as i wrote before, I think no-one should expect the complete absence of pain, and tbh I welcome pain, as it is usually a good sign (if not crucial, or too lengthy), but in other hand it exhaust you mentally as well.
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Keep strong man! Sleep is bad for all lengtheners but it's OK. Bonez is right, you're starting to be taller. That's so great
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Thanks Notatroll. Another thing to add, that however pain is present, it is continuously diminishing (first 3 days were the worst, than 4-6 days moderate, and now more than bearable, of course still there), and I have to add, that I didn't have any epidural canule after 1-3 days post op as many others, and the IV opiate-class was also given in a continuously lowering manner. I'm just being realistic by saying don't expect to not feeling pain at all.
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Hey man, could you show some pics of the hospital and your hotel environment?
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Sorry guys, now I tried to attach photos from chrome (I thought safari is the problem, I use mac), it didnt allow, than tried to insert photo, same result. Tbh I don't care if I can attach photo of the room, or the food (I've already described what is my opinion, it is a Greek private hospital, use your imagination, and google :)), but I would like to show a photo of the frame, which is definitely more important. I was looking in the description of the forum motor, they don't tell anything specific, if someone knows a real solution don't hesitate pls.
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Yea I would defintely like to see some pics of the frame. It's good to hear that the pains diminishing day by day.
Just use imgur for the pics, click the browse button and upload a picture. Then just post the link it gives you.
https://imgur.com/upload
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Thanks Bonez, for first time in my life I used imgur :D
(https://i.imgur.com/Fzqacgr.jpg)
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Room
(https://i.imgur.com/6I7bLwG.jpg)
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lol no problem its much easier then some of the sites people use here to post pictures.
The frames look so nice and modern, how many pins do you have?
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I didn't count it, but around 25 small pins (if you see a TSF, you can see thicker pins (half-pins), and these, you can read on the net about them), they cause less scarring , and Giotikas believes they give more stability.
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Hey man
Did you doctor tell you anything about stryde pricing or availability ?
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Pricing is 6-7000 EUR+ compared to PreciceII, availability: end of this year (maybe earlier).
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Small update
Nothing exceptional happened, I will reach 1 cm tomorrow, I moved out of the hospital last Sunday. As many other wrote, it is really important to have someone with you - in my case - in the first week after moving in the flat (I didn't prepare for this, but had a nurse coming every second day to check, cook, shop etc..). With every day i feel more confident living alone, and moving around the flat. As phoenix and others wrote, it is hard even to walk because of the discomfort, and pain, but I'm pushing myself to walk at least 3 times a day (thank to my high metabolism I can't avoid it :D ). I just try not to overdo the activity.
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Congrats on the 1cm!! Can you tell us more about the day to day activities regarding living alone during LL? Are you to go to the bathroom and warm your meals by yourself? How independent can you be?
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What ammount of money do you recommend to save for tsf method with Giotikas?
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Thanks Bonez!
The important things to do routinely:
PT and walking min. 2x/day: in the morning I - logically - go to the bathroom with walker, after coming back try to do some rounds more (if the pain is not too high, but with a tramadol-lyrica preliminary combo it is easier to overcome soreness). In the afternoon/ evening second round of walking, and before going to bed the last round. Dr Giotikas insists on walking, he calls me regularly, and checks every crucial steps.
Eating - as much as you can, low sodium, sugar meal 3x/day, I'm using a specific unflavoured protein shake brand (that I'm flavouring for myself with organic cocoa, eritrit combo) as well (for dessert it is perfect). I brought with me a huge amount of vitamins, supplements which I'm not taking currently, I will use them for the consolidation phase. Btw all the meds are included in the price (like xarelto, painkillers, chlorhexidin, even vitamin d in small liquid bottles - which i was surprised about).
Sleeping is crucial. I agree with many, that discipline is essential for us during this journey. By that I mean, if you don't have a proper schedule, don't occupy yourself, or loose focus because of pain, the level of discomfort, and pain get get substantially higher. I'm not saying if your mindset is optimal you don't feel it, just the whole experience can be better or worse, and pain is the primary burden of getting a good quality sleep.
Independence is getting better with every day, but have to be patient. I don't personally cook, as standing for longer makes my legs sore, but I let the house aid cook, clean, shop everything.
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It depends on the amount of lengthening, and duration of staying there (I guess 5-6 cm), see my post before with the approximated costs in staying in Greece and add the price of Giotikas (there are many things included in his price:meds, physio etc..).
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Thanks Bonez!
The important things to do routinely:
PT and walking min. 2x/day: in the morning I - logically - go to the bathroom with walker, after coming back try to do some rounds more (if the pain is not too high, but with a tramadol-lyrica preliminary combo it is easier to overcome soreness). In the afternoon/ evening second round of walking, and before going to bed the last round. Dr Giotikas insists on walking, he calls me regularly, and checks every crucial steps.
Eating - as much as you can, low sodium, sugar meal 3x/day, I'm using a specific unflavoured protein shake brand (that I'm flavouring for myself with organic cocoa, eritrit combo) as well (for dessert it is perfect). I brought with me a huge amount of vitamins, supplements which I'm not taking currently, I will use them for the consolidation phase. Btw all the meds are included in the price (like xarelto, painkillers, chlorhexidin, even vitamin d in small liquid bottles - which i was surprised about).
Sleeping is crucial. I agree with many, that discipline is essential for us during this journey. By that I mean, if you don't have a proper schedule, don't occupy yourself, or loose focus because of pain, the level of discomfort, and pain get get substantially higher. I'm not saying if your mindset is optimal you don't feel it, just the whole experience can be better or worse, and pain is the primary burden of getting a good quality sleep.
Independence is getting better with every day, but have to be patient. I don't personally cook, as standing for longer makes my legs sore, but I let the house aid cook, clean, shop everything.
Try to cook seriously. I could so can you. The only problem with cooking , using walker and wheelchair is that after a while my feet would swell and i had massive discomfort. It actually might not happen to you since you dont have foot holders. Walk , stand as much as possible and I know its but you legs need to work. I was learning walking with crutches by putting a wheelchair in front of me in case of falling and then making small steps. It worked but was difficult.
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Thanks dooms, I think I'll try to push myself more, just I'm maybe to cautious to avoid all failure points.
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Day 17
I'm doing 1mm/day (4 clicks) and reached 1 cm. Try to walk as much as possible, yesterday walked 6 times (smaller distances, more frequently). When I start to walk, at the beginning it is quite painful, but after 1-2 min it becomes a lot better, I guess because of the enhanced circulation, and the diminishment of piled up blood in the lower extremities (these are just guesses).
Sleeping was surprisingly good, I slept around 8 hours (usually I sleep during the distraction between 5-8 hours, but with some breaks in between), but because of the dull, gnawing pain I can only fall asleep after a tramal (50)/lyrica (75) combo. I'm thinking to do 0,75/day, maybe I wouldn't need the painkillers, or stay at this rate, but in this case I'll have to take 2xtramal+lyrica/day (before physio, and before sleep). Guys, if you have experience with painkillers, and how to take, or not, could you write how you decided?
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is difficult to do the clicks o turns ? is accurate ?
also imo 1 mm per day on tibias is to much, You have talked about this rate with Dr. Giotikas?
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No, the clicks are easy, no substantial sense during that.
He just told me to do 1mm/day until I think 5 cm, over that 0.75 until 6.5, and maybe over it one should do 0.5 or so. I'm however thinking to make the whole process with 0.75, I'll mention it him next time, until than 1mm (or by feeling, if would make my sleep too hard).
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hi boss i am also doing limb lengthening myn is 20th day of lengthening and 28th day post surgery.I stopped taking pain killers from almost a week.
same like you I am also walking 5times a day it was really helpfull
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Cool, I also will diminish the dose to 0 with time, and take only after a lot of work, or if falling asleep is hard.
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Happy to hear from you Zakika. Get well soon!
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Good to hear that you are able to walk more and that the sleep isn't too bad. Are you still at 1mm/day? You should see if it's ok with Dr. Giotikas to reduce the rate hopefully that will lessen the pain.
Wishing you a speedy recovery
Happy to hear from you Zakika. Get well soon!
Hey Great321 I remember you saying that you were also going to have surgery with Giotikas in a few months. Is this still the case?
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Hi Bonez,
yes, I'm doing 1 mm/day, still doable, but recently was too eager, and I was walking the last 3 days like 7-8 times a day (almost every hour), and one of the pinsites get irritated, inflamed, and finally ulcerated, so after discussing with Dr Giotikas, he suggested to walk only 2-3 times/day, until the wound heals. I'm taking the painkillers, however pain is getting slightly better every day (now the inflamed pinsite is tender, when bending knee), but sleep would be hard without them.
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:) Hello zakika
Thanks for your sharing and you are so kind responding every questions detailedly.
I also consider having surgery October this year in Greece and could I ask you a question that how you rent a apartment and monthly price? Thanks you!
Do you hire a caretaker? If you have, could I ask how did you find?
Best wish.
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Small update, day 23
The last days were quite uneventful. After pushing too hard diminished walking to 3-5/day, which was a good decision, my inflamed pinsite started to heal. Walking is less painful with every day, I'm taking the painkillers (tramal, no NSAID of course), and won't stop them abruptly, will adjust to the level of discomfort. By next Wed-Thu I will reach 2cm. Now I'm already increasing my protein intake, and started to increase gradually the bone generating supplements (VitC, D, K2, silica, NAC, selenium, Mg, B-complex, Flavonoids, quercetin so far). I'm preparing to a slower callus formation from previous experiences, I hope I won't "overshoot" with supplements too.
And another thing: Dr Giotikas told me to slow the distraction rate to 0.75 from 2 cm for couple of days, as changing the rate of distraction from time to time induces callus formation more effectively (that I will definitely need).
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day 27
Guys, I'm officially around 2 cm. Many things changed: my pain level increased significantly, so I increased the painkiller dose too, but not allowed to go over 3 tramal/day and 2lyrica. My pain is mainly around the left tibia below knee medially, mainly if I bend the knee I rather feel the pain on the frontal side. My right tibia, and my calves are painful as well, but the tibias site is the worst, can't sleep more, than 2-3 hrs in a row. I don't really know if it is normal, but don't think it would be wise to stop my whole journey earlier than at least 4 cm (I don't want to risk health, only if there is no infection). I diminished distraction to .75 today. I hope the pain will be better with time, as sleeping is totally disturbed.
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day 27
Guys, I'm officially around 2 cm. Many things changed: my pain level increased significantly, so I increased the painkiller dose too, but not allowed to go over 3 tramal/day and 2lyrica. My pain is mainly around the left tibia below knee medially, mainly if I bend the knee I rather feel the pain on the frontal side. My right tibia, and my calves are painful as well, but the tibias site is the worst, can't sleep more, than 2-3 hrs in a row. I don't really know if it is normal, but don't think it would be wise to stop my whole journey earlier than at least 4 cm (I don't want to risk health, only if there is no infection). I diminished distraction to .75 today. I hope the pain will be better with time, as sleeping is totally disturbed.
These are nerve pains. I had exactly the same at about 2-3cm. After that, they have disappeared.
Don't be afraid, nothing seems wrong till now.
Stay strong!
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Wow it's already been almost a month, time sure flies. Sorry to hear about the pain, it's good that you slowed down the rate. Hopefully the pain will go away soon. Keep moving forward and persevere brother this will all be behind you soon enough.
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Thank you Bodybuilder, it really helps to receive input from previous LLers as yourself. I cancelled todays physio (called Giotikas first), and could sleep 2 hrs more, tbh it was such a good feeling to sleep slightly more (even 1-2 hrs). Both of my legs are stiff as hell.
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Thanks bro, it is a real mental game, I'm sure we can learn a lot about ourself during this journey, however now I'm thinking to invite one of my friends to increase social support at least for the next 6-8 weeks (lengthening). It was already planned to slow down today (around 2cm), but honestly I couldn't have taken the 1mm for longer (at least around now).
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Hi bro me also exactly in the same phase of lengthening .myn is 30thday of lengthening reached 2.5cm so far.
I am still continuing with the 1mm perday untill I feel flexible.
Regarding pain I don't feel any pain in the mornings but at night little discomforr was there couldn't sleep more that 3to 4 hours taking one pain killer at nights.
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Post op day 30
Guys, the pain seems to fluctuate, but gradually decreasing thank for God. I diminished the dose of painkillers, but for sleeping I'm still on them. I think for future LL'ers prepare DAILY social interactions, it is a huge of help, or the lack of it can make the journey (besides unique difficulties) a lot harder. So the hard part besides pain is that I've to lay all day long (when not walking), no real company besides the nurse, and if sleep is bad in a row, the experience can be tiring. I'm doing .75mm/day, as I count if I'm on it as an average for 30 days more, I'll be between 4,5-5 cm, now it seems to me the upper limit. Take care
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Small update
I had my X-ray this week, briefly: the alignment of bones is good, I don't know how far I'm cm-wise, but the distraction shows clearly on x-rays, and to my surprise I already have some obvious callus on both legs, which Dr Giotikas, and myself didn't expect. I'm doing the lengthening on 3 clicks, pain is present, I'm always taking painkillers before sleep, and usually in the morning. They will control the callus (and rate of distraction) continuously (I believe every 2 weeks), and as his partner said, if the callus is not continous, we will stop clicking, and continue if the bridge is built, plus his opinion is the same, don't lengthen over 5 cm on tibia (max 6, but over that amount the rate of complications is too high, plus the peroneal nerve is not close as solid as the nerves on the thigh). I like this safe approach, and try to walk 4 times a day, plus I started eating chia seed, other plant based stuffs, and colostrum in a week as well.
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News
It seems I have to have a minor surgery, because my fibula started to consolidate prematurely, and pulls away from the ankle, so on he 17th they will have to make a new incision, and Dr Giotikas will replace one of my pins that irritates my skin at the pros tibia level. I'm not happy to hear to undergo another operation, even if it is a minor one.
Another new is, an info from Giotikas, that Stryde will be available most likely already in December this year (as he said, the representative of nuvasive will visit Athens in Sept.).
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wish you the best for your surgery!
would you still consider doing tibia and femur in one year?
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Im so sorry for this..
But this minor surgery you'll going to do is it included in the cost or will you have to pay an extra?
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Update
On monday they will make an x-ray, to confirm, but so far - after they examined me on friday manually - the fibula head seems to be fine (symmetric, good height), so the operation is not sure. I don't mind these corrections, rather now, than at the end of lengthening. I think these costs are not included, but we didn't specify yet, however they are outpatient interventions, so at least hospital costs are absent.
So far I feel ok, and already have some impressions about the 2-3 cm (I won't tell anything 'till the next X-ray measurement) height advantage, as this week one of my friends visited me, who is 173 cm tall, and I clearly felt taller than her when walking (I hope it wasn't only an optimistic impression :).
I - theoretically - could do Stryde in Dec this year (it seems Giotikas will have it by then), but we discussed the thing, we will see how I will proceed, and decide it later (my thigh muscles, mainly my the extensors are quite atrophied, so it would make sense to regain strength, muscularity, however with weight bearing it shouldn't be a huge problem), maybe I'll make the second this year, or do an aggressive physiotherapy after frame removal, and continue not too many months later. Take care!
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Update
So, I had my X-rays today to decide, if I have to have the surgery, and measure my progress so far, and double good news are there: first, I won't need to undergo the surgery, as my fibula didn't consolidate completely, and distracts with callus, while didn't pull away from it's original location. Another good new (at least for me), that the X-rays showed on the right side 3,778 cm, on the left 3,65 cm, but Dr Giotikas said, they are both equal to around 3,3-3,4 cm, I was surprised, as I was a bit confused about the real distraction length. I think I will try to go over 5 cm (between 5-6 cm would be ideal, but if it is risky, around 5 cm is perfect too), if my soft tissues will allow it. Take care!
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Happy to hear about your good news:)
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Thanks man!
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Im glad to see that everything is going great. And thank you for continuing to uppdate your diary, especially since I and others want to do LL with Giotikas in the future.
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Thank you, I'll make at least one more post (if no bumps arise), after reaching around 5 cm. I'm really relieved about the current stage, and was surprised about the amount lengthened, however over 4 cm it will be more difficult for sure.
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I hope everything going well Zakika. I'm happy to hear that you didn't need to have an extra surgery. Yea like Shadow said thanks for the updates there's lots of us that want to go to Giotikas. I'll actually be going to Athens in the next few months for a consultation I just need to get the time off work.
I thinks it's been about 2 months at this point, what is your impression of Dr. Giotikas so far? How have you liked living in Athens?
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Giotikas himself is very caring, pays attention to everything, follows you up, and is encouraging to contact him any Q's you have. His communication is flawless (even calls you back at night, if busy), so briefly it is obvious that he pays attention to every single, tiny detail, which is normal i think (that was the reason he called me about the possibility to have another operation, as he was double checking my X-rays, thank God it was not neccessary). So far it is the same for me actually where to stay inside the EU (besides weather, and the friendliness of people here), time flies when you're in a room sleeping through half of your day. I hired a personal aid ho's living with me, for the period my friends are not available. Next week I'll have my next X-ray, I had to slow down a bit because of pin site irritation, I'm these days around 4cm, so I'm glad I reached the minimum goal :). Still heading until I feel it alright, but not more than 6 cm.
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Giotikas himself is very caring, pays attention to everything, follows you up, and is encouraging to contact him any Q's you have. His communication is flawless (even calls you back at night, if busy), so briefly it is obvious that he pays attention to every single, tiny detail, which is normal i think (that was the reason he called me about the possibility to have another operation, as he was double checking my X-rays, thank God it was not neccessary). So far it is the same for me actually where to stay inside the EU (besides weather, and the friendliness of people here), time flies when you're in a room sleeping through half of your day. I hired a personal aid ho's living with me, for the period my friends are not available. Next week I'll have my next X-ray, I had to slow down a bit because of pin site irritation, I'm these days around 4cm, so I'm glad I reached the minimum goal :). Still heading until I feel it alright, but not more than 6 cm.
Dr. Giotikas looks like a great option. I just read up his qualifications and he might be third next to dr. Paley and Rozbruch in rankings when it comes to qualifications. And he also has a phd in orthopedics which is no joke, along with MD. Def will consider him in future for tibias.
Thank you for this diary and looking forward to your recovery process!
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Giotikas himself is very caring, pays attention to everything, follows you up, and is encouraging to contact him any Q's you have. His communication is flawless (even calls you back at night, if busy), so briefly it is obvious that he pays attention to every single, tiny detail, which is normal i think (that was the reason he called me about the possibility to have another operation, as he was double checking my X-rays, thank God it was not neccessary). So far it is the same for me actually where to stay inside the EU (besides weather, and the friendliness of people here), time flies when you're in a room sleeping through half of your day. I hired a personal aid ho's living with me, for the period my friends are not available. Next week I'll have my next X-ray, I had to slow down a bit because of pin site irritation, I'm these days around 4cm, so I'm glad I reached the minimum goal :). Still heading until I feel it alright, but not more than 6 cm.
I'm glad you didn't have to resort to another operation, this said I wanted to know how much it costs the help of a person who helps you? a week or a day? since I will work from him for half 2019 with stryde but leave alone for this trip ..
thanks and good luck
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Yes, he's into his specialty, and seems a very sophisticated doctor education wise. Thanks for following up.
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Thanks champion, personal worker's fees vary, if you hire from Athens it can change from 30-70 EUR/day (depending on the qualification - nurse, specialty assistant etc.), I hired mine from my home country and flied her in, it was way cheaper so, and makes my days so much more comfortable (plus in simple physiotherapy can help as well). Details I can write in private.
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Hey man,
any news about Stryde availability?
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As it seems this late this year (nuvasive was in Athens, but I haven't been talking wth him about that yet).
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Update - 5 cm
It seems I can progress further, today I'll reach 5 cm according to x-ray (which I had on thursday, 4,78-4,75 cm - right-left). Still I don't think I'll stop. I had some struggles last week, which was a pinsite irritation, that turned into infection, however Dr Giannakos (Dr Giotikas's partner) said, he thinks it is not an infection, I took a 5 days antibiotic course, and the wound healed by wednesday approximately. My left ankle is a bit swollen, now I'm about to regain flexibility, as I wasn't walking too much during the pin irritation period.
As I wrote I already passed the 4cm minimum, and now 5cm, so as planned I'll go towards 6 cm, but not more (Dr Giotikas said, over 6 cm there is a higher chance for the necessity for ATL, which he doesn't want to perform), so I think I'll stop between 5-6 cm depending on possible complications, pain etc.. Take care!
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Update - 5 cm
It seems I can progress further, today I'll reach 5 cm according to x-ray (which I had on thursday, 4,78-4,75 cm - right-left). Still I don't think I'll stop. I had some struggles last week, which was a pinsite irritation, that turned into infection, however Dr Giannakos (Dr Giotikas's partner) said, he thinks it is not an infection, I took a 5 days antibiotic course, and the wound healed by wednesday approximately. My left ankle is a bit swollen, now I'm about to regain flexibility, as I wasn't walking too much during the pin irritation period.
As I wrote I already passed the 4cm minimum, and now 5cm, so as planned I'll go towards 6 cm, but not more (Dr Giotikas said, over 6 cm there is a higher chance for the necessity for ATL, which he doesn't want to perform), so I think I'll stop between 5-6 cm depending on possible complications, pain etc.. Take care!
6cm is a very good amount and on the safe limit. More than that is unwise because the risk of equinus becomes big as Giotikas said.
Good job!
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Yes, I think the same. Thank for God my flexibility seems quite ok so far, but I know over 5 cm it is always tougher. One more thing, my callus seems to be continuous (it looked quite good for the whole period), and the alignment was also good on the last checkup according to Dr Giotikas, so things seem to be solid now. Thanks!
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Glad to hear! And i agree with Body Buldier. Be safe
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It’s been almost 6 months since I had surgery and I strengthened my belief that 6cm is the absolute limit if you want to keep your health and athletic ability. You seems to be in good hands. Keep it up!
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Yes, I think the same. Thank for God my flexibility seems quite ok so far, but I know over 5 cm it is always tougher. One more thing, my callus seems to be continuous (it looked quite good for the whole period), and the alignment was also good on the last checkup according to Dr Giotikas, so things seem to be solid now. Thanks!
I would recommend to stop now when everything is ok. 5 cm on tibia is ok , then you can do easily 6 cm on femur and 11 cm will be a massive gain. Always keep in mind that your legs will have to work until you die, now youre young and strong but when you are in your 60s thing might look different. Pushing them too hard to see when they start struggling might bring negative effects in the future.
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I would recommend to stop now when everything is ok. 5 cm on tibia is ok , then you can do easily 6 cm on femur and 11 cm will be a massive gain. Always keep in mind that your legs will have to work until you die, now youre young and strong but when you are in your 60s thing might look different. Pushing them too hard to see when they start struggling might bring negative effects in the future.
Isn't LL itself a bad idea because your legs have to work until you die? If were him I would have done just 6-7cm on tibia and not done an extra LL altogether.
@doomsday you did 6 segments if I recall right. Do you feel recovered? Do you regret it? It did solve your problems?
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Thanks, I will play safe.
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Thanks ketchum, what is your experience regarding activity, stretching so far? I feel like having some (not to be close to the limit tbh) reserve in my soft tissues, so will go on.
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Hi doomsday, thank you for your warning, I -in general - think safe, it is the reason, that i don't say anything for 100%, because it is not me, who tells the endpoint to this journey, but my body. Now I feel like pushing a bit more to be a reasonable decision (my main concern is, how my ankles will handle the additional weight, but with femur-Stryde the plus weight comes up too), plus I'm not sure yet when to have Stryde, as my quadriceps are atrophied, the flexibility has to be improved in lower limb etc.
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Hotty, I keep any options alive, the one you mentioned is one of them, however 7 cm for tibia seems over a rational limit, so we'll see..
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Hi, can I ask what your flexibility was like pre op, could you touch your toes? And what is your flexibility like now?
Many thanks
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I could touch my toes, gut only after some stretching before the op, now I'm working on to avoid any ballerina, even temporarily, however after 5,5-6 cm I'll have for sure, which I have to work off with physio.
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Did you meet Giotikas for a consultation before surgery, Or just before the operation?
Does Giotikas think pre op flexibility and stretching make much of a difference to the outcome, or refuse to operate on people with poor flexibility?
Cheers
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Sorry for all the questions.
So what are the exact prices for each lengthening?
It’s taken you 10 weeks to hit 5cm, is this average? Do you feel taller?
If you were only doing 5cm, in one segment, would you do femur or Tibs?
Thankyou so much for your diary,
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Yes, I met Dr Giotikas, and before had Skype consultation too, as you have to have a right connection with the doctor before making this decision. You seem to be in a very early stage on your possible journey, so only an advice, all your questions will be answered by a doctor, don't ask Q's, like what would you choose, because this operation is not a joke. On this forum 1% is a medical professional (or less), even me, as a doctor can't answer you precisely, as I'm not an ortophedic surgeon.
In my opinion this forum is very useful for basic infos (methods, doctors, supplements), and for reading solid, realistic diaries. The rest, like discussing clearly BDD (Body dimorphic disorder) standpoints as reliable opinions, or other projections are completely a waste of time, even misleading, if someone is new, and fresh in this topic, plus it takes time to realize the junk "information", additionally there is zero moderation on this forum as I see. I think (maybe I'm alone with this opinion) if someone didn't go through this (maybe only because of financial burden, it doesn't matter in this instance), and is not a professional, in 90% of cases is not a reliable source of info.
Long story short, read a lot (mainly publications Pubmed, Scholar, collections about the methods, supplements etc., and diaries), and ask after the doctor, or someone who has experience (I'm happy to answer these kind of Q's) more specifically (not to ask someone to decide which of your segments to choose, when your proportions, finance etc. are not even clear).
The prices are on the website, Athensbjr.
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Finished lengthening
Guys, I officially finished lengthening, yesterday talked with Dr Giotikas, he recommended to stop now, and do a similar amount with Stryde (I'm around 5cm, a bit higher I guess, yesterday there was no X-ray). Now my left ankle is quite swollen, and sensitive, as the pulling effect of soft tissues is higher, so I have to wait couple of days, and go on with physio (I have to be careful with my ankles as well, as I had soft tissue tear in past, so I don't tend to risk a very lengthy recovery process). From now on consolidation, and stretching are the main focus, however consolidation speed will depend on my bone turnover mainy, I will eat as much, as possible.
Stryde update
He said his first Stryde patient will be in December, he also talked about, that they will use a special protocol for weight bearing calculating everything, bones length, weight etc. in relation with timing. I didn't go into details, but it sounds good.
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Congrats zazika. When do you consider doing Stryde with Dr. Giotikas? Also did Dr. Giotikas help you get a medical visa for this procedure?
Please post any pictures of your frame and swelling if possible.
THank you
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How much did you pay and do you have pictures?
Thanks
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(https://imgur.com/a/qnce1Nz)
Not very swollen, it fluctuates, but if i put weight on it, gets wore, so i guess it is wiser to let it rest a bit. The brown discolouration around the pins on the left is betadine (to prevent anxious questions).
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(https://imgur.com/a/qnce1Nz [ftp=ftp://imgur.com/a/qnce1Nz]https://imgur.com/a/qnce1Nz[/ftp])
Can you see the photo (for me it is defaulty)?
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no we can't see the photo. Please upload it on imgur and paste a link here.
Thanks
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https://i.imgur.com/acoZlDO.jpg
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Hi dude, nice diary! I'm planning to do surgery with doctor Giotikas when I have the money for it. I'm saving up. (5 cm in femur and 6 in tibias). Could you upload some pictures of your results? if you don't mind, 'course.
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I uploaded my last xrays:
https://imgur.com/a/jcI8aZ9
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Hi dude, nice diary! I'm planning to do surgery with doctor Giotikas when I have the money for it. I'm saving up. (5 cm in femur and 6 in tibias). Could you upload some pictures of your results? if you don't mind, 'course.
Why not Pili?
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Hiii I am a girl that was planning to go to Dr. Dimitrios for Stryde can you please Tell me why hou didnt do Stryde for tibias , like why go external ?? And is the Dr a good choice for stryde in femur or i should search for someone else also How do u descrive the pain in your upper leg and why not aim for 8 cm in femurs , i mean its a compex and expensive surgery why only aim for 6 in femurs ??
Waiting for your reply
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As I wrote before, I would recommend him, however I will wait until main gait will be stable. I didn't choose stride, as I didn't want to let nail my tibias, and stride will be available in the next 2 months, so according to my schedule TSF was the safest method.
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Quick update
After finishing lengthening my first X-ray was on Wednesday, my callus became stronger, Dr Giannakos was very pleased, according to him my bone turnover is exceptional, I was quite relieved again. The alignment of the bones is good, the callus bridge is continuous, and looks quite solid.
However I still have issues with the pins, if I start to put more weight on my body they flare up, and until the inflammation disappears I have to stop again, not sure how to solve this issue. I have a feeling, that learning to walk again will be realistic after frame removal.
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https://imgur.com/I3568Kb
https://imgur.com/sSgAhZD
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callus looks real good. Once it thickens up is should stabilize the frame. Also keep an eye on the frame and the callus when you start walking and if you feel that the callus is compressed and decompressed when standing and sitting then you need to inform your doctor. Frames and pins sometimes get loose and moving callus might looks strong on xray but will have hard time to properly harden up. I had that issue and after 5 months the doc realised that. BTW how many cm did you get?
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Thanks dooms, I'm around 5 cm according to X-ray, on Wed the doc didn't measure it, but i don't really have any intention to lengthen more on tibia, only if some corrections have to be made.
I didn't know, that compression on callus might be bad, actually I feel, that even when making hard stretching the ankles and PT exerts a pushing effects too on the legs (working off equinus) the callus area is somewhat pressed and sensitive. Do you think it shouldn't be there?
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Thank you for the very valuable information!
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Thanks dooms, I'm around 5 cm according to X-ray, on Wed the doc didn't measure it, but i don't really have any intention to lengthen more on tibia, only if some corrections have to be made.
Its 3 months post surgery and you only distracted 5cm!!
Is there a reason why you lengthened so slowly?
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I'm over 5 cm, and stopped lengthening more than 2 weeks ago. I started with 1mm/day after than switched to 0,75 mm, what do you mean?
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Well the compression and decompression is based on putting body weight or not. Otherwise the frame will keep it stable. In my case it looked like a bump on the side of my tibia after I stood up and then when I sat down it disappeared.. When i placed my hand on the callus I could feel in moving when standing up. If you ever feel it you will know it. Most likely it not going to happen since it very rare. Dont get paranoid ;)
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ok, i don't have any of that, but thanks for calling my attention to it.
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https://i.imgur.com/acoZlDO.jpg
Why did you do this circular illizarov thing ?? Why not LON
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Hi Zakika!
Glad to hear your journey is going well!
I'm also thinking of doing through the same procedure with Dr Giotikas
I was wondering now you've stopped lengthening how long will the frames stay on for during consolidation?
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I didn't even consider LON, with TSF seemed to be safer (alignment, stability-callus), and so far my callus looks quite solid, so I chose this method vs. Precice-tibia, even if it is more inconvenient because of the longer duration with frames on.
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The time when frames come off depends on he progression speed of further callus formation, calcification of the premature bone, and formation of the weight bearing final bone structure, I guess in 2-3 months from now.
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I didn't even consider LON, with TSF seemed to be safer (alignment, stability-callus), and so far my callus looks quite solid, so I chose this method vs. Precice-tibia, even if it is more inconvenient because of the longer duration with frames on.
Why not LON whats worng with it ?
Isnt it less scarring than circular frames
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read the entire thread, your X rays are looking very solid man, from your experience and pictures I'd say Giotikas knows what he is doing.
curious however how old are you?
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Thanks man. I'm 36, but from look no-one would guess it (people think I'm around 25-28), and my metab. rate is also super high, hence the quick regeneration of the tissues as well i guess.
I already wrote, that i didn't want to nail my tibias (LON was excluded).
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Do you know how much they charge for Stryde?
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Appr. 5-6k EUR on top of Precice 2 I guess.
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Appr. 5-6k EUR on top of Precice 2 I guess.
Thank you very much :D
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Hey Zakika, congrats on successfully lengthening 5 cm. May I ask how you managed to take a 3 month time off from your day job? Or are you self-employed or not employed at all?
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Appr. 5-6k EUR on top of Precice 2 I guess.
did you hear anything about its availability. I know theres another euro doctor who will get Stryde but waiting for CE certification
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Self-employed, it was less difficult for me (tbh I'm calculating with more than 6 months).
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I guess Dr Giotikas has stryde already, you have to contact him directly to ask.
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Hey zakika how are You doing? Do you know if Giotikas has new patients?
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I'm fine, thanks, walking cautiously, he has patients continuously, but I'm not in Athens anymore.
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what has been ur total cost uptil now? like exactly how much money have u spent uptil now in everything and what do u expect will be ur total amount at the end when ur walking unaided?
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Hey, how was experience in Athens overall? And is dr Giotikas as experienced with precice as stryde?
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what has been ur total cost uptil now? like exactly how much money have u spent uptil now in everything and what do u expect will be ur total amount at the end when ur walking unaided?
I've spent accommodation, food, nurse, corrective surgery etc. included around 6-8000 EUR more, but bear in mind, that I've had a helper from the very beginning, I've spent on supplements, quality food (restaurant quite often) etc., so it can be cheaper. At the end, it is hard to predict, because I think I'll have physio long after they removed the frames.
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how much money was corrective surgery and for what is was ?
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I've spent accommodation, food, nurse, corrective surgery etc. included around 6-8000 EUR more, but bear in mind, that I've had a helper from the very beginning, I've spent on supplements, quality food (restaurant quite often) etc., so it can be cheaper. At the end, it is hard to predict, because I think I'll have physio long after they removed the frames.
so do u think coming to Athens solo and doing it is viable?
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With a professional help/nurse in the first 6 weeks yes.
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so do u think coming to Athens solo and doing it is viable?
I personally believe if you do stryde femurs or stryde tibias you can do lengthening alone in Athens and then fly back to your home country for consolidation
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I personally believe if you do stryde femurs or stryde tibias you can do lengthening alone in Athens and then fly back to your home country for consolidation
but i wana do tibias only and externals is the best for tibias according to majority ll'ers and docs.
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Dear Zakika
Congratulations for 5cm get! Are you waiting for Styade nail being available? When do you want to start the last 2segment? Do you prefer do femur after having TSF removed?
Thanks.
I am sorry English is not my first language but I hope you get better everyday. Keep strong.
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Did you have ballerina? Was necessary to do achilles tendon lengthening?
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Hey, hope you'll do well
About all this journey, do you have any regret ?
Im 17, and started researching about the lengthening surgery so Im too curious about it, if it worth..etc
Good luck
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Why did you do this circular illizarov thing ?? Why not LON
Some people have chronic knee pain when insert the nail on tibia.
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All is fine currently, yes, I had to stretch my flexors (soles, gastrocnemius etc.), but I didn't need ATL. I don't know the date of my stryde surgery yet, because after the corrective surgery I have to work on my left ankle a lot (quite stiff), and I think it will take a lot of time in terms of flexibility. I'll do my X-ray soon, and Giotikas will let me know how far I'm from frame removal.
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How is the personal side of Dr Giotikas? He smiles a lot? Is he kind, loveable, friendly, sweet and polite?
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How is the personal side of Dr Giotikas? He smiles a lot? Is he kind, loveable, friendly, sweet and polite?
In one word, responsible. It is a quite good feeling, when you face many hard situations in this journey. He has a good personality.
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Thanks for answering.
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6,5 months
Just a small update: guys it seems, that in the next month the fixateur will be dynamised (loosen the struts, and putting weight on my legs gradually), and the removed from my legs. According to my X-rays due to yesterday there's a quite strong bone already, where it was only callus before. My overall mobility increased a lot in the last 2 weeks, walking, climbing stairs with grip is already working. Cheers
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Im happy to hear that you are doing good!
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6,5 months
Just a small update: guys it seems, that in the next month the fixateur will be dynamised (loosen the struts, and putting weight on my legs gradually), and the removed from my legs. According to my X-rays due to yesterday there's a quite strong bone already, where it was only callus before. My overall mobility increased a lot in the last 2 weeks, walking, climbing stairs with grip is already working. Cheers
Could you please post your xrays? I want to compare it with mine so to gauge if my callous are hard enough.
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Could you please post your xrays? I want to compare it with mine so to gauge if my callous are hard enough.
Sure.
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Im happy to hear that you are doing good!
Thanks man!
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https://imgur.com/K72rdY9
So it is my last X-ray, actually from lateral there has to be some more improvements, but it looks quite encouraging. I will post some more, but I will be lurking even less with time around the forum.
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Congrats zazika! Please keep posting updates :)
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You are a hero. One of the greatest men of all time
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Hey Zazika, how u doing now? I hope that you are fine
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i think zakika is having problems with his surgery, he is online and didnt say anything , bad thing.
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Last post
Guys, there are many reasons, when somebody is online, and is not writing, I'm fine, I released the struts on both legs, and the frames will be removed on the next week (end of it). Paranoid people please don't post, rather read back diaries, when candidates are not writing for weeks, and after than report their experiences.
I think (as I wrote before), that the basic infos are very useful here, but generally this forum is rather toxic, than beneficial for someone undergoing a real adventure. This is my very last post on this forum, good luck for every candidates!
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Good luck Zakika. You helped me greatly in identifying Dr G. I agree this forum is frequently toxic with little useful information and mostly paranoid individuals.
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What is the total price of surgery by Dr.Giotikas.
Does he do internals also?
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Zakika i hope you wont leave. We need the updates,mate. Just ignore the trolls and update when you feel you have something worth telling.
Keep safe ;)
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This guy gets easily ofended, arrogant guy
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Don't overthink
Guys, I saw topics opening about old LL'ers leaving the forum, and the lack of feedback about their condition, long term experiences, general life after. The old forum was imho more reliable too, but my advice is, that don't overthink the effects of LL after the consolidation phase, when somebody seems objective (making senseful decisions: right doctor, amount of lengthening, handling complications etc..), even with this surgery the chance of failing is low, but not zero unfortunately.
I was making this post to possibly secure future candidates, that a realistic approach of this surgery based on common sense minimises the chances of failure, just don't make premature decisions, or based on not the right motives (e.g. only deciding by financial "benefit"). There always will be people, who are not on this forum with the right reasons, sadly without real moderation it will be struggling to navigate to the right direction for beginners.
My current situation: frames were removed, I'm walking a lot better (it is a completely different experience without frames in my case), but I feel, that my left leg has to improve more, until I can put full weight without regards (feeling like "micro-movements" on the left side), so with Dr Giotikas we decided to walk cautiously in the next weeks yet. Other than that getting rid of the frames is a huge relief.
Take care guys!
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Great to hear mate, im happy that everything is going well.
Keep safe :)
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Thanks for a thorough reply and all the help Zakika. Sending prayers
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Thanks guys, good luck to all!
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Do ppl in Greece understand, and fluently speak English? Will the journey of living there for 6 months not knowing Greek be okay?
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Thanks guys, good luck to all!
Hey bud - I'm thinking of going with Giotikas in 2020. I can see that you'd recommend him. I had my skype meeting with him a couple of weeks back and he seemed like a good chap.
Do you know how successful he is with this surgery?
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Do ppl in Greece understand, and fluently speak English? Will the journey of living there for 6 months not knowing Greek be okay?
Almost everyone understands and speaks English there. You'll be fine.
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Phew! One less thing to worry about. Thanks for all ur help
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zakika, since you have no more frames, can you please upload a video with your walking?
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zakika are you ok?
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Thanks guys, good luck to all!
After the distraction phase is completed, what are you able to do physically typically? Ex: would you have to pay for a caretaker to help you move all your luggage to prepare to get into the airport/throw away stuff? Aside from your laptop/passport, what else is important to bring with you on the plane?
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All is fine currently, yes, I had to stretch my flexors (soles, gastrocnemius etc.), but I didn't need ATL. I don't know the date of my stryde surgery yet, because after the corrective surgery I have to work on my left ankle a lot (quite stiff), and I think it will take a lot of time in terms of flexibility. I'll do my X-ray soon, and Giotikas will let me know how far I'm from frame removal.
Hi, hope you are OK. What is this corrective surgery you speak of?
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replying... to follow since giotikas is one of the people im looking into.
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Hi all, long time. I just wanted to give an update. So after the appr. 5,6 external tibia I had a mal-union in my left fibula that was operated on twice (it was an obvious fkup looking back, they should've recognized the case earlier, and after it happened not to wait until the end of the lengthening to fixate the bones) and now trying to figure out how to proceed, because I'm not able to jog normally even after 2 years (I was doing cardio in a quite high level before). The recovery is no joke people, if you go above 15% of your original length be prepared (even though my tissue regeneration was quite optimal as I paid attention to every single detail as much as I could - nutrition, physio, sleep etc.).
And 1 important message: don not get hung up on the sales pitches these surgeons are selling to you. This surgery is extremely demanding and dangerous, if you have the option, money, I beg you, go to the States, or spare more money (which is still difficult, but surgeons there are more experienced, at least Paley is).
Good luck to everyone!
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Sorry to hear that. I thought the fibula is not supposed to grow back? Since it’s basically a non essential bone.
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why you just don't give details about your journey? it's literally being selfish. you can help others perspective with no effort, but you are choosing to keep as secret, for no reason whatsoever.
please, consider sharing your knowledge&experience with us, with details.
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Sorry to hear that. I thought the fibula is not supposed to grow back? Since it’s basically a non essential bone.
For ankle stability it is important and bares approximately 20% of the full body weight, to survive i is not essential, to run, jog etc it is important.
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I shared all the details in the post, my last one is a recap, I wrote all the essential infos in it, read back.
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Would you say your journey has been worse than other patients in Greece?
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Would you say your journey has been worse than other patients in Greece?
I wouldn't compare myself to other patients in terms of general "experience", only would like to call attention of the difficulty of the process (however I know 2 patients of Giotikas, 1 guy with femur Stryde and another with externals as well, who had complications and suffered more than I did, one of them wrote a diary as well on this forum).
When I started I was also very enthusiastic and ecstatic about the journey, but at the end of the day all comes down to your body's own healing potential and the experience/careful guidance of the surgical- and physio team. Overall the experience wasn't as good as I was expecting even considering the pre-realized difficulty of such an intervention, my complication should've been handled better, not to to mention the physio sessions (that was included in the price excluding the transfer), that some members here already described about Athens. The physiotherapy isn't really professional compared to the States eg. I was talking with the physiotherapists there, all kind caring people but the professional background wasn't established. I know it sounds negative, but talking from real experience. It is better to know beforehand than to be surprised there. The saying fits this experience as well: "You get, what you pay for." It was a decent price but you have to know that the consequences are far greater than of a dental procedure.
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It is interesting with the fibula.
I never understood why LL doctors aren’t more concerned about it than they are when lengthening tibias.
As in, from what I understand, the tibia is “locked into position” both with external and internal lengthening, but the fibula seems to be more “left to itself” when tibia lengthening is done.
As the fibula is also bent at an angle (i.e. not as straight as the tibia) I have always had the impression that the probability of a mal union happening there is very high. Maybe there is something I have not completely understood because how would doctors be okay with tibia lengthening >3 cm if this was the case?
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It is interesting with the fibula.
I never understood why LL doctors aren’t more concerned about it than they are when lengthening tibias.
As in, from what I understand, the tibia is “locked into position” both with external and internal lengthening, but the fibula seems to be more “left to itself” when tibia lengthening is done.
As the fibula is also bent at an angle (i.e. not as straight as the tibia) I have always had the impression that the probability of a mal union happening there is very high. Maybe there is something I have not completely understood because how would doctors be okay with tibia lengthening >3 cm if this was the case?
Exactly, after it happened I was researching a bit more, Paley has a very informative presentation about the importance of paying attention to fibula migration, and how to prevent it. As I've heard Giotikas started to fixate the bones a lot more carefully together after me.
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so how was your gait, through the years up and down? you couldn't walk until you fix the mal-union or how exactly your personal life affected all those surgeries, if you chronologically say that?
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sorry to hear about your fibula issue
in the past doctors didnt mind the fibula all that much until a bunch of complications arose from not taking care of it
internal nail methods usually just drill a screw through the fibula into the tibia near the ankle to keep it moving together as you lengthen, while on external method you could do that or pass one of the pins through it(like what my doctor did to me)
my frames were affixed near the ankle with 2 pins, 1 of which passed through both fibula and tibia therefore making sure they move together and are kept stable
i looked into the thread for your xrays but couldnt find xrays which show the ankle portion of your legs in order to see if Giotikas drilled a screw in there, did he do that?
whats to be done about your fibula now? bone graft from hip maybe?
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sorry to hear about your fibula issue
in the past doctors didnt mind the fibula all that much until a bunch of complications arose from not taking care of it
internal nail methods usually just drill a screw through the fibula into the tibia near the ankle to keep it moving together as you lengthen, while on external method you could do that or pass one of the pins through it(like what my doctor did to me)
my frames were affixed near the ankle with 2 pins, 1 of which passed through both fibula and tibia therefore making sure they move together and are kept stable
i looked into the thread for your xrays but couldnt find xrays which show the ankle portion of your legs in order to see if Giotikas drilled a screw in there, did he do that?
whats to be done about your fibula now? bone graft from hip maybe?
Thx for the comprehensive response, there were pins throught he bones (only the slim ones, which are in many cases not stable enough), and he didn't fixate the fibula with an additional screw (as far as I knew he should've been), with the lengthening the fibula migrated "up, and he waited all along the distraction phase and operated on the fibula with the removal of the frames together, so he broke the fibula again basically, and pulled it apart. After that it didn't seem to solve the issue, there was constant pain and the x-rays showed that the lateral malleolus of the fibula is still too proximal/close to the the knee so another year passed and he operated on the left ankle again put a huge plate in to stabilize the bone (I've just looked back on the photo the incision site was like 12 cm long...) the result now is:
that I cannot flex the left ankle properly and have a slight "collapsed" feeling in the ankle (I'll have to do an x-ray again I guess and start analyzing the bones again) when I'm trying to jog the left ankle can't hold my leg and feels like I hit the ground with full weight the left leg compared to the right. Additionally to functions there is a real chance of early ankle osteoarthritis which I wanted to prevent with the operation(s). I won't need bone graft, as the bone healed, my issue is the function, and to prevent further issues, will have to think about it carefully.
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For ankle stability it is important and bares approximately 20% of the full body weight, to survive i is not essential, to run, jog etc it is important.
What meals did you like at the Montaza hotel? Tried the plain pizza and meatball/fries so far, just trying to avoid nuts, seeds, peanuts, sheLL Forumish b/c of allergies
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Would you mind to share the link of Dr Paley’s presentation? Thanks a lot
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Based on the X-ray you lengthened with Ilzarov method. Why wasn't there any internal nails in your tibia? wtf Dr. Giotikas
I aware that this post was made in 2019. But no internal nails to direct bone growth is insane. And that leads to mal-union.
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I wouldn't compare myself to other patients in terms of general "experience", only would like to call attention of the difficulty of the process (however I know 2 patients of Giotikas, 1 guy with femur Stryde and another with externals as well, who had complications and suffered more than I did, one of them wrote a diary as well on this forum).
When I started I was also very enthusiastic and ecstatic about the journey, but at the end of the day all comes down to your body's own healing potential and the experience/careful guidance of the surgical- and physio team. Overall the experience wasn't as good as I was expecting even considering the pre-realized difficulty of such an intervention, my complication should've been handled better, not to to mention the physio sessions (that was included in the price excluding the transfer), that some members here already described about Athens. The physiotherapy isn't really professional compared to the States eg. I was talking with the physiotherapists there, all kind caring people but the professional background wasn't established. I know it sounds negative, but talking from real experience. It is better to know beforehand than to be surprised there. The saying fits this experience as well: "You get, what you pay for." It was a decent price but you have to know that the consequences are far greater than of a dental procedure.
Was considering Dr. Giotikas bc of price. Now it's sus.
I would put Dr. Giotikas in C tier.
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Based on the X-ray you lengthened with Ilzarov method. Why wasn't there any internal nails in your tibia? wtf Dr. Giotikas
I aware that this post was made in 2019. But no internal nails to direct bone growth is insane. And that leads to mal-union.
does it mean internal nail like Precice will not have such issue?
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Hi all, long time. I just wanted to give an update. So after the appr. 5,6 external tibia I had a mal-union in my left fibula that was operated on twice (it was an obvious fkup looking back, they should've recognized the case earlier, and after it happened not to wait until the end of the lengthening to fixate the bones) and now trying to figure out how to proceed, because I'm not able to jog normally even after 2 years
And 1 important message: don not get hung up on the sales pitches these surgeons are selling to you. This surgery is extremely demanding and dangerous, if you have the option, money, I beg you, go to the States, or spare more money (which is still difficult, but surgeons there are more experienced, at least Paley is).
Good luck to everyone!
Thank you for your input. Based on this I would put Dr. Giotikas in D tier. And steer clear.
A surgeon ability to foresee complications before they happen is crucial for this extreme surgery.
I have messaged and emailed Dr. Giotikas and his team about the procedure. His team's response time or lack of is also a cause for concern
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You did tibia and femur (stryde) thats a rare combination due stryde is for full weight and the other is not, thats a shame about your tibia, how is your femur experience after all, thinking in Giotikas but still nor sure, where in US you go pal?