Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Discussions => Topic started by: Frogger on August 17, 2018, 01:11:43 AM
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I told my parents recently about my desire to have the surgery (I have saved almost 70k) and they are completely against it.
2 reasons why:
(1): "It's all in your head, it's an internal issue, you need to change your perspective", etc etc.
(2): They think the procedure is crazy and unwarranted for my disposition and that it is very high risk.
My father is a doctor and he has asked many orthopedic friends of his about this surgery and all of them are against it.
His main fear is an Osteomyelitis infection.
I would like to hear your opinions as to the risks of the surgery. Is it really not worth the risk/reward assessment? I have everything else going relatively well for me in life, it's just this dysphoria that has been a large burden for me over the past 5 years since I stopped growing.
Ps: I am 5'6.5, 21 years old, male, and am aiming for a 5.5-7 cm gain through PRECISE internal femurs hopefully with a U.S. doctor (Rozbruch or Paley), but might have to settle for an international one (Lee or Birkholtz)
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I don't think you're crazy, but at 21, I feel you need to give it more time. Spend a few more years at least thinking it over. If you are saving good money, you can continue saving without an interruption in your life. You should go to the best doctor in the US if you can afford it, rather than going internationally. If the feelings become less intense over the next few years then you will not need to consider it, and if they remain the procedure won't vanish. How tall is your father?
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I thought about that too, but here's my opinion on it:
I'd like to get it done right after university during my gap year as it is one of the only times in which it would be most feasible. It's a transition phase so it's not like I would just take off from my job after a few years and come back half a year later taller.
Also I feel like the sooner the better as far as improving my quality of life (or at least providing the opportunity to reach a higher potential) as the 20's are supposed to be a very significant time in terms of dating, relationships, fun, etc.
I realise that I may not yet be fully mature yet at 21, but this dysphoria doesn't seem to be going away since the past few years and I feel as if time is winding down for the most opportune moment to get it done in my youth
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My father is about 5'5.5, mother 5'2. My sister is 5'5, brother 5'9
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Your father, being short, may recoil from the implication that his height is somehow insufficient, as being a successful man has probably allowed him to overlook it with more ease, especially now that he's older. Your mother is your mother, and so will love you whatever way you are, so naturally she will not want you to have the surgery. Your brother, being taller than you, will not be able to relate to your state of mind. Your sister will not understand your point of view as a short man.
There are many reasons people cannot relate. Again though, if you are going to do it, you should go to the best. This is a serious surgery, the most invasive cosmetic procedure there is. There is a risk of fat embolism you should consider.
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Exactly how I feel, as if none of them will be able to truly grasp the degree to which it affects me. My mom likened it to a girl who is insecure because she has small breasts. Obviously not the case here as it is comparing apples to oranges lol.
I guess what I'm trying to truly grasp/understand is exactly how dangerous the procedure really is in terms of possibilities for complications, even if done under the best surgeons in the U.S. under the best procedure (PRECISE COBALT). I see a lot of success diaries and some troubling diaries but there are a whole lot of people who had the procedure and didn't write diaries so these diaries available are just a superficial scratch at the surface.
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Exactly how I feel, as if none of them will be able to truly grasp the degree to which it affects me. My mom likened it to a girl who is insecure because she has small breasts. Obviously not the case here as it is comparing apples to oranges lol.
I guess what I'm trying to truly grasp/understand is exactly how dangerous the procedure really is in terms of complications, even if done under the best surgeons in the U.S. under the best procedure (PRECISE COBALT). I see a lot of success diaries and some troubling diaries but there are a whole lot of people who had the procedure and didn't write diaries so these diaries available are just a superficial scratch at the surface.
read my topic about the risks and how to limit them: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=8960.0
if you do enough research on the procedure and understand every risk, you can find ways to limit risks as much as possible.
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The procedure is safe. Although there are risks.
Recovery is key. Atheltic recovery that is.
You will be fine in the end and taller. Just remember it comes at great cost. Financially. Time wise. Emotionally. Physically.
In the end you will win. Its only you who is suffering so do not worry about what others think.
At the same time I would be weary to tell my family.
I could see them taunting me for the rest of my life. Even if I was taller and achieved my goal at the end.
Check if your plated fused in the legs. Get fit. Then decide
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WTF? How have you saved up 70k at 21? I'm 20 and just barely breaching the $40k mark and I've been saving since I was about 17. Obviously you invest or got a trade, union job rather than going to uni?
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Btw, your parents will never understand. EVER. Especially (well for me at least) not your mother. I don't plan on telling them unfortunately. With Stryde I'm hoping I can get my downtime to ~2 months and tell them I was on vacation in Florida staying with a friend (I do have a friend I visit in Florida). Honestly I just can't imagine any parent being supportive until you get it, and show them how happy you are and how different your life is. This is your life you have to live, they won't experience it. They should be proud at the amount of money you've saved and your tenacity, at the very least.
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How Many time have you been thinking about to have the surgery done ? How Many time have you been with height disphoria? Id you hace been with that at least 3 years i would say you do the surgery. You have to Accept that you are going to lose some Athletic hability , but its a trade off. Hope i could did it at your age. I dont think that osteomielitis is something common with an internal nail.
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I don't really spend my money, it's a habit I've had since a kid. So all those savings plus a small online business/gig that I have been running for the past 3 years.
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I've been thinking of the surgery for the past 3-4 years now. Sometimes I am convinced that I really should get it while other times I tell myself perhaps it's not the only option. It comes and goes in phases but I have noticed that over time my height dysphoria has only gotten worse and I am afraid it will continue in that direction as I progress through my twenties. I think about height every day.
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Hi there Frogger
At 5'6.5 I'd say you're qualified for this surgery. You are lucky to be in a position to afford it at such a young age. I was not 29 until I did mine. You are right, your 20's is an important time in your life and if my experience is anything to go by, I am sorry to tell you the dysphoria won't go away.
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Funny example the your mom chose. You can tell your mom that breast augmentation is the most popular cosmetic surgery, hands down. The patient satisfaction rate is extremely high as well.
The only reason cosmetic limb lengthening isn't as popular is because of its price, pain, and long recovery time. If you're willing to pay for Precice, you can minimize the last two, so you have that going for yourself.
Maybe you can tell them that you just want to reach the average height. An overweight person comes out to their parents that they're finally going to work hard and lose the weight, and they support you. However, you tell your parents that you want to become as tall as the average man, and they think you're crazy, because they believe height is set in stone. But it's not anymore, and it's hard them to understand that.
Perhaps you can show them this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws-EHmPfgHM
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@taller_in_kiev: that's what I'm afraid of. My opinion is that going to a psychologist would simply teach me how to deal with the internal factor, yet there still will always be that external factor re-affirming the internal factor in an endless loop. Yes I can mitigate the degree to which it affects me internally, but it will still always be there.
@android: hey! I've actually been following your progress with LL! And I saw that video, if only my parents were as supportive as his parents lol! But yes I told them that I don't have any grandeur dreams of towering tall, I just want to be average. Where I'm from, my height puts me below the 15th percentile. 85% of men are taller than me. If I could even just get to the 50th percentile it would be such a relief . Their main concern stems from the issue of safety. They still believe, even with precise, that the procedure is very dangerous (it is a very invasive procedure) and are gravely afraid of any possible complications that may arise from it. They just don't think that my height should be that big of an issue to risk myself to this surgery. Easier said than done, however.
But I've been having some questions of doubt too about the surgery despite me committing to myself that I will get it done within the next 1-2 years. I too am very afraid of any possible complications that may arise, despite going through with PRECISE COBALT and a U.S. surgeon. My life is not bad at all right now and if I were (knock on wood) to become paralyzed or debilitated for the rest of my life I really would not know how to get over my decision.
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Frogger, it appears you're a little neg/fearful about this. Don't go into it with such a frame of mind. Research more if you want.
I went into my LL with a totally clear head and positive state of mind. I knew it was what I wanted before anything else and I was only thinking of coming out taller and fully recovered at the end. I was already thinking of running in the woods/ on a beach with my gf before I had even stopped lengthening)
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@taller_in_kiev: Thanks for the advice my friend. I definitely am a bit nervous about it as I am fully committed to doing so (I think that's completely logical imo) but can't wait for the day when my height will no longer become an issue of thought anymore :)
Btw, in your profile pic, is that a before and after LL going left to right?
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Yes )
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Since when did you need to be a certain height to have fun, date and be in a relationship? If you can't enjoy a concert at your height how does being 2 inches taller make the concert experience better? If you travel the world, how does 2 inches make trying out new foods, hearing different languages, music, etc. better? Just some questions you might want to think about because I'm not buying the whole "it makes quality of life better", it doesn't magically open a gate to all these things, you can do all these things now.
But try not to overthink it and think about the facts, if your parents don't support it, leave it at that, don't think about their reasons, it's not important, you're only going to end up with assumptions like everyone who has posted on this thread trying to detail why your parents cannot relate.
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PRECICE is a good choice of method by means of minimizing most of the risks, such as infection (in methods involving an external device, the pins enter the skin, piercing the tissues and the bone, and there is an open wound which welcomes infection :) but PRECICE nail is internal and the wound is stitched so the risk of infection is minimal). And the duration of recovery is also much shorter :)
In my opinion, what you need is to think more about what becoming taller will add to your life, in which ways it will make you a happier and fuller person, rather than pondering over the barriers in front of you (even if it is your beloved family members). After you are sure that you are not lying to yourself and the ONLY solution to your dysphoria is LL surgery, after you know that this is what you want, go for it. No matter how much your parents love you, no one lives another person's life instead of him/her and if at some point of your life you are going to have LL surgery, I would recommend to do it as early as possible. Because at this age, your body and bones will cope with this procedure much more easily, rather than at an older age. Moreover, living with this feeling of dissatisfaction for some more years would take its toll on your future perspectives and psychology in general.
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@edward V6: since the beginning of time! It's not about 2 or 3 inches, but how it makes you feel about yourself, your self confidence etc. Perspective is everything. There's a newbie on here by the name of theW, he's 5ft but successful in life, a role model in my opinion, and he says he'd be so happy at 5'4. Height is not everything but it's one of those hidden untalked about things most of decide or make assumptions about subconsciously if that makes sense..
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I'd say check (and answer) Unicorn's questionnaire for prospective LLers. It seems you've been around here, so surely you know about her (sadly, tragic) story.
THINGS TO CONSIDER
1. Gender
2. Age
3. Starting height and desired height
4. Race (some races like South Asians fuse faster while East Asians fuse slower than average)
5. Smoking or non-smoking
6. Budget + financial support/reserves (what happens if complications handicap you for 2+ years and you cannot go back to work or support yourself financially? Most doctors will charge for each additional correction/surgery regardless of whose 'fault' it is)
7. Is cosmetic surgery insurance specifically leg lengthening ones available to you? The policy can be as cheap as €300 premium in Germany, for example. It saved a few patients I know in Europe from bankruptcy and losing everything they have.
8. Emotional Support (Will your family or partner support you? Will you tell your friends? How will they react?)
9. What segment would you like to lengthen or both?
Femur (more length/faster healing/more pain) or Tibia (less length/slow healing/less pain)
10. Have you researched all the different methods and understand the pros and cons of :
- Femur or Tibia
- Internal nails or External cages
- Manual clicking (ISKD/Ilizarov types) or Remote control (Precice type)
- Non-reversible (ISKD type) or Reversible (Precice, Ilizarov types)
- Weight bearing (ISKD/Stryde etc) or Non-weight bearing (wheelchair bound for months)
10. How much FREE time do you have to 'disappear from the world' while you're lengthening and rehabilitating (do you need to return to your job, demands of your family, schooling etc. and what happens if you cannot recover for 2+ years?)
11. How flexible are you? (see next post to check how stretchable are your quads, hamstrings, IT band etc for femur lengthening/recovery)
12. Are you disciplined enough (you know yourself best to take all the medication and do all the physiotherapy prescribed especially if you choose not to stay with the doctor throughout your entire lengthening journey which takes approximately 3 months)
13. Are you willing to TRADE your current good health for potential debilitation, loss of loved ones, loss of livelihood/job, loss of self esteem/sanity, estrangement from friends and family (if things go very wrong?), being judged nonstop or ridiculed
14. Does being taller change your life so much? Are you currently suffering from short stature neurosis?
15. State of mental health (how strong are you/can you overcome/forgive yourself when facing worst case scenarios, physical pain, betrayals, all types of losses, regret etc.) Can you pick up the pieces of your shattered life and land back on your feet?
16. Most importantly, why are you doing this? You should be brutally honest with yourself about the reason(s).
I think these are questions you need to answer honestly (to yourself) to determine if you're ready for CLL and all its agony and adherent risks.
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@edward V6: since the beginning of time! It's not about 2 or 3 inches, but how it makes you feel about yourself, your self confidence etc. Perspective is everything. There's a newbie on here by the name of theW, he's 5ft but successful in life, a role model in my opinion, and he says he'd be so happy at 5'4. Height is not everything but it's one of those hidden untalked about things most of decide or make assumptions about subconsciously if that makes sense..
Of course I'm not saying height can't be an issue in one's life, but if you think you can't have fun because of it then that person is making a choice to not have fun because he/she thinks something that is not. Nobody is stopping anyone based on height from attending concerts, events, movies, festivals, etc.
If TS gets LL and wakes up happy and not thinking about height ever again, great for him, but when people go around saying they want to have fun/enjoy their prime years and think they need something like LL to make that happen is blasphemous. Height isn't stopping anyone from having fun, that person is stopping themselves, there's no argument there.
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How the fk did you save 70k at 21? Can I sell drugs with you?
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What exactly happened to unicorn in summary? I've read parts of her diary but it is very dense. From what I understand, she is unfortunately still unable to walk since 2 summers ago with the Guichet Nail
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If you haven't read all the biggest diaries here with a critical mindset you have not done your due diligence and are in no position to spend 70k to get your legs chopped up. Your parents are right
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I've been a lurker here since 2015 and have read a fair amount of diaries and have been following :(purushrottam, andrewshizzles, overrideyourgenetics, android, etc.)
But yes, I should read more.
Can you give me a list of recommendations?
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Hi Frogger, I PM'd you
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I've been a lurker here since 2015 and have read a fair amount of diaries and have been following :(purushrottam, andrewshizzles, overrideyourgenetics, android, etc.)
But yes, I should read more.
Can you give me a list of recommendations?
DoingItForMe's, Unicorn's, Stripe's, Bigfaker's. I think those cover all methods and good and bad outcomes, while being detailed. There are plenty of other good ones that I am forgetting, but these were the first to come to mind.
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It isn't necessary for you to read anyone's diary lol. I certainly hadn't and there wasn't even a forum around back then - good thing too, I'd have hated to waste my time!
Everyone is different. If you want to do LL, don't overthink/bust your brains reading all this sh!t. Different people have different results, but for the most part, those who went into it well prepared and with a reputable doctor did fine. So just do that and you'll be ok too.
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It isn't necessary for you to read anyone's diary lol. I certainly hadn't and there wasn't even a forum around back then - good thing too, I'd have hated to waste my time!
Everyone is different. If you want to do LL, don't overthink/bust your brains reading all this sh!t. Different people have different results, but for the most part, those who went into it well prepared and with a reputable doctor did fine. So just do that and you'll be ok too.
So who's the most reputable LL doc?
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It isn't necessary for you to read anyone's diary lol. I certainly hadn't and there wasn't even a forum around back then - good thing too, I'd have hated to waste my time!
Everyone is different. If you want to do LL, don't overthink/bust your brains reading all this sh!t. Different people have different results, but for the most part, those who went into it well prepared and with a reputable doctor did fine. So just do that and you'll be ok too.
"It isn't necessary for you to be informed about life-changing decisions regarding an extremely controversial procedure among the medical community."
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Dr J. A Nemer of course)))
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imho, wait one more year and save more money. Since the stryde nail came out this year for CLL, do research on how it is. If it is good, next year you can do the procedure with precice stryde. Should speed up recovery time
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Good God, not another un-Precise/Stryde promoter. Yeh dude, save up more money and spend it all on something that has no track record, imo just a load of hot air and fancy marketing. Or you can pay a sensible amount and go with something tried and tested, that has been around long before the likes of Paley even got acquainted with internal methods.
Trolls, please don't jump all over me again, but all you naive people going for this company's nail (Precise/Strye) are just being guinea pigs. That's right, guinea pigs! The long term recovery and what not through these nails are unknown.
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RGKEY, programdude, unicorn, doingitforme, masterhy, Sweden, yellow spike, bigfaker, leechlet, kilokahn, penguinn .. all detailed diaries with a range of outcomes. There's plenty more I'm forgetting too.
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Good God, not another un-Precise/Stryde promoter. Yeh dude, save up more money and spend it all on something that has no track record, imo just a load of hot air and fancy marketing. Or you can pay a sensible amount and go with something tried and tested, that has been around long before the likes of Paley even got acquainted with internal methods.
Trolls, please don't jump all over me again, but all you naive people going for this company's nail (Precise/Strye) are just being guinea pigs. That's right, guinea pigs! The long term recovery and what not through these nails are unknown.
stryde is just a sturdier version of Precice 2.2 i think. It's not like a revolutionary new mechanism. it's just weight bearing which allows people to stretch their muscles throughout the day rather than just during PT. also some people have said it speeds up recovery (which does make sense compared to precice 2.2). Also Paley has a very good track record and more credibility that most other CLL doctors. people can have their own opinions, thanks
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@JohnOdin
Precice/Stryde may be good nails, I don't know, but until there are people that come forward and demonstrate a decent recovery some years after their procedure - as I have, it cannot be viewed in the same light. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and make their own choices.
Also I have nothing against Dr Paley, I am sure he is a capable doctor, but I am hearing some rather wild claims about Stryde. For instance that no crutches are needed? For the record, my nail was also fully weight bearing and we're talking 14 years ago. It's ridiculous to think that you'll be able to walk unaided with any degree of comfort or confidence so soon after surgery and particularly as you start to lengthen and the gap between your broken bones widens.
I was also able to walk unaided shortly after surgery, but it's crazy not to use crutches as the last thing you want is a nasty slip of fall with disastrous implications. The more you lengthen, the more difficult things become and rehab/recovery, i,e. your new bone formation, your muscles, tendons and ligaments adapting to the stretched state etc will take the same amount of time regardless of the nail you have inside you. The nail does not and cannot speed up recovery. YOU do that with your exercises, you diet, your physio, positive attitude etc.
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Oh and tlannister
... a fking sh!ty bone non-union nail from Kiev made by a palestine refugee? he is spreading this jamar nail garbage all over the forum...
I think I did ok with this nail don't you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmGGIjtnOgI
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Oh and tlannister
I think I did ok with this nail don't you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmGGIjtnOgI
I think you're a joke. lol
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@bruce Wayne, I know, and not a very funny one
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@JohnOdin
Precice/Stryde may be good nails, I don't know, but until there are people that come forward and demonstrate a decent recovery some years after their procedure - as I have, it cannot be viewed in the same light. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and make their own choices.
Also I have nothing against Dr Paley, I am sure he is a capable doctor, but I am hearing some rather wild claims about Stryde. For instance that no crutches are needed? For the record, my nail was also fully weight bearing and we're talking 14 years ago. It's ridiculous to think that you'll be able to walk unaided with any degree of comfort or confidence so soon after surgery and particularly as you start to lengthen and the gap between your broken bones widens.
I was also able to walk unaided shortly after surgery, but it's crazy not to use crutches as the last thing you want is a nasty slip of fall with disastrous implications. The more you lengthen, the more difficult things become and rehab/recovery, i,e. your new bone formation, your muscles, tendons and ligaments adapting to the stretched state etc will take the same amount of time regardless of the nail you have inside you. The nail does not and cannot speed up recovery. YOU do that with your exercises, you diet, your physio, positive attitude etc.
If someone has good bine alignment and haven't lengthened too much (like you did) then we don't need to see how someone is doing 10-15 years after LL. After all, even 10 years are not much to see the longtime consequences of LL.
Also, precise has been thousands times more than bliskunov nail and it is used from the best orthopaedics in the world (not only LL doctors) and stryde is exactly the same nail but wuth full weight bearing abilities.
So, guinea pig is not someone who uses an experienced doctor like Paley) with an up to date magnetic nail to do LL but someone who goes in a third world country to be operated from an unknown doctor with an obsolete nail which is maybe good but of course has only disadvantages compared to stryde (way of lengthening with magnets, reverse lengthening etc). And all these for 40k+ euros!
So thats the real guinea pig.
And that doesn't change because you had a good outcome. Some patients ended up with non unions and malunions from that doctor and they are for sure more than you.
So stop comparing stryde with obsolete nails and top doctors with someone from Kiev because you just harm your doctor.
Nemer would maybe have been an alternative choice if his price was 25k euros for internals with bliskunov (or any other nail like that). But now only a fool would give so much money when with less than 10k more in some months he could use stryde in a west country.
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If someone has good bine alignment and haven't lengthened too much (like you did) then we don't need to see how someone is doing 10-15 years after LL. After all, even 10 years are not much to see the longtime consequences of LL.
Also, precise has been thousands times more than bliskunov nail and it is used from the best orthopaedics in the world (not only LL doctors) and stryde is exactly the same nail but wuth full weight bearing abilities.
So, guinea pig is not someone who uses an experienced doctor like Paley) with an up to date magnetic nail to do LL but someone who goes in a third world country to be operated from an unknown doctor with an obsolete nail which is maybe good but of course has only disadvantages compared to stryde (way of lengthening with magnets, reverse lengthening etc). And all these for 40k+ euros!
So thats the real guinea pig.
And that doesn't change because you had a good outcome. Some patients ended up with non unions and malunions from that doctor and they are for sure more than you.
So stop comparing stryde with obsolete nails and top doctors with someone from Kiev because you just harm your doctor.
Nemer would maybe have been an alternative choice if his price was 25k euros for internals with bliskunov (or any other nail like that). But now only a fool would give so much money when with less than 10k more in some months he could use stryde in a west country.
Ah, what spite.. I should've known before coming on here! I actually had a teeny weeny bit of respect for you bodybuilder, but no more. You're just another shill precice promoter. Now let's take you apart sentence by sentence.
"If someone has good bine alignment and haven't lengthened too much (like you did) then we don't need to see how someone is doing 10-15 years after LL. After all, even 10 years are not much to see the longtime consequences of LL."
I did not lengthen too much lol, I'm doing ok thanks. I look fine proportionally and have good athletic ability, I can't ask for more. And by 'we', I think you mean 'you' only. I am sure many on here are interested in just that: seeing how someone has fared 10-15 years later. And that by the way is a very good time frame post LL to gauge.
"Also, precise has been thousands times more than bliskunov nail and it is used from the best orthopaedics in the world (not only LL doctors) and stryde is exactly the same nail but wuth full weight bearing abilities."
Absolute nonsense. Precice is a relatively new product, no way has it been around as long or been used in as many procedures. I don't have the stats of how many each has had, but neither do you. I can at least claim much longer longevity.
"So, guinea pig is not someone who uses an experienced doctor like Paley) with an up to date magnetic nail to do LL but someone who goes in a third world country to be operated from an unknown doctor with an obsolete nail which is maybe good but of course has only disadvantages compared to stryde (way of lengthening with magnets, reverse lengthening etc). And all these for 40k+ euros!
So thats the real guinea pig."
Third world is the poophole you happen to be in, wherever that is. If I was a guinea pig, then I came out standing tall from the experience, meaning others don't have to be guinea pigs any more.
For the record, when I did my surgery back in 2004, Dr Dragan was the lead surgeon, the BEST in the world, and you're not going to argue with that! Dr Nemer was his trainee at the time. I doubt another doctor can come anywhere close to his achievements in the field. Read the man's bio, link at bottom.
I assure you Precice/Stryde have nothing over the Bliskunov nail. The magnets and what not are nothing but gimmicks. I'd rather have a 1990's Porsche than a current day Toyota with all the gadgetry in the world! The only thing obsolete is you.
And once again you are not an authority to decide what a particular doctor in a particular part of the world should or can charge! It's a free market in a free world. People are free to make their own choices. I merely published my result and if someone wants to replicate what I did, they know where to go.
I bet you are the type of guy who goes into a restaurant, looks at the menu and argues the steak is overpriced as it was shipped from Brazil!
"And that doesn't change because you had a good outcome. Some patients ended up with non unions and malunions from that doctor and they are for sure more than you."
Nonsense again. I personally know of many that have had as good an outcome as mine, people from Canada, the US, Germany, Spain..There were a couple of isolated bad cases too, but the doctor cannot be held for all the blame. As I've said many times, LL is 75% down to patient effort. Overall the team here has an excellent record, has been around the longest and performed the most internal procedures.
"So stop comparing stryde with obsolete nails and top doctors with someone from Kiev because you just harm your doctor."
You are right, I should stop comparing Stryde to Bliskunov because the latter is far superior, was the original and best and all subsequent nails are mere copycats.
http://www.correction.kiev.ua/bonamed/dragan.htm
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I'm nervous to go over 8cm if I went with LATN. 10 would be amazing but fk. I guess we'll have to see. Still will most likely go with stryde and have a smooth sailing 7.5-8cm and be done with it.
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I'm nervous to go over 8cm if I went with LATN. 10 would be amazing but fk. I guess we'll have to see. Still will most likely go with stryde and have a smooth sailing 7.5-8cm and be done with it.
Best of luck pal, hope it all goes well.
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Ah, what spite.. I should've known before coming on here! I actually had a teeny weeny bit of respect for you bodybuilder, but no more. You're just another shill precice promoter. Now let's take you apart sentence by sentence.
"If someone has good bine alignment and haven't lengthened too much (like you did) then we don't need to see how someone is doing 10-15 years after LL. After all, even 10 years are not much to see the longtime consequences of LL."
I did not lengthen too much lol, I'm doing ok thanks. I look fine proportionally and have good athletic ability, I can't ask for more. And by 'we', I think you mean 'you' only. I am sure many on here are interested in just that: seeing how someone has fared 10-15 years later. And that by the way is a very good time frame post LL to gauge.
"Also, precise has been thousands times more than bliskunov nail and it is used from the best orthopaedics in the world (not only LL doctors) and stryde is exactly the same nail but wuth full weight bearing abilities."
Absolute nonsense. Precice is a relatively new product, no way has it been around as long or been used in as many procedures. I don't have the stats of how many each has had, but neither do you. I can at least claim much longer longevity.
"So, guinea pig is not someone who uses an experienced doctor like Paley) with an up to date magnetic nail to do LL but someone who goes in a third world country to be operated from an unknown doctor with an obsolete nail which is maybe good but of course has only disadvantages compared to stryde (way of lengthening with magnets, reverse lengthening etc). And all these for 40k+ euros!
So thats the real guinea pig."
Third world is the poophole you happen to be in, wherever that is. If I was a guinea pig, then I came out standing tall from the experience, meaning others don't have to be guinea pigs any more.
For the record, when I did my surgery back in 2004, Dr Dragan was the lead surgeon, the BEST in the world, and you're not going to argue with that! Dr Nemer was his trainee at the time. I doubt another doctor can come anywhere close to his achievements in the field. Read the man's bio, link at bottom.
I assure you Precice/Stryde have nothing over the Bliskunov nail. The magnets and what not are nothing but gimmicks. I'd rather have a 1990's Porsche than a current day Toyota with all the gadgetry in the world! The only thing obsolete is you.
And once again you are not an authority to decide what a particular doctor in a particular part of the world should or can charge! It's a free market in a free world. People are free to make their own choices. I merely published my result and if someone wants to replicate what I did, they know where to go.
I bet you are the type of guy who goes into a restaurant, looks at the menu and argues the steak is overpriced as it was shipped from Brazil!
"And that doesn't change because you had a good outcome. Some patients ended up with non unions and malunions from that doctor and they are for sure more than you."
Nonsense again. I personally know of many that have had as good an outcome as mine, people from Canada, the US, Germany, Spain..There were a couple of isolated bad cases too, but the doctor cannot be held for all the blame. As I've said many times, LL is 75% down to patient effort. Overall the team here has an excellent record, has been around the longest and performed the most internal procedures.
"So stop comparing stryde with obsolete nails and top doctors with someone from Kiev because you just harm your doctor."
You are right, I should stop comparing Stryde to Bliskunov because the latter is far superior, was the original and best and all subsequent nails are mere copycats.
http://www.correction.kiev.ua/bonamed/dragan.htm
Only a fool would have said that a 30yo nail which lengthens by twisting your broken leg (!) is superior to a recently released magnetic nail when you lengthen completely painless, has reversible ability and is so accurate that you know how you lengthened even without x rays.
The only common that these 2 nails has is weight bearing ability. Nothing else.
So if an american newly and very advanced nail is toyota...then bliskunov must be a lada or something like that.
Finally, the only one LL'er that I knew that lengthened more than 8 cm on femurs (Tall who lengthened 10cm) needed a second tibia operation to fix his biomechanics and to avoid knee pain. The 11cm you did is truly stupidity and I really wonder if you don't suffer arthritis in a few years from now.
But although I truly agree with what you say about bliakunov, I really wish you don't, health is above everything.
Anyway, anyone with a bit of brain could understand which is better between a 30yo mechanical nail and a newly released magnetic nail with fda approval.
So for me that conversation is over because the reality is really obvious and I wonder why you are so fanatic about insisting that bliskunov is the best nail out there while it is being used only from a Palestinian in a third world country with civil war compared to a futuristic nail with am fda approval that it will be used in tenths of west countries in a few months!
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So who's the most reputable LL doc?
Sarin obviously
I'm nervous to go over 8cm if I went with LATN. 10 would be amazing but fk. I guess we'll have to see. Still will most likely go with stryde and have a smooth sailing 7.5-8cm and be done with it.
And people still go with more than 7cm dreams. This community will never learn lol
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Sarin obviously
And people still go with more than 7cm dreams. This community will never learn lol
I understand that's why i'm only doing 7.5-8cm. There are many good outcomes of 8cm.
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Only a fool would have said that a 30yo nail which lengthens by twisting your broken leg (!) is superior to a recently released magnetic nail when you lengthen completely painless, has reversible ability and is so accurate that you know how you lengthened even without x rays.
The only common that these 2 nails has is weight bearing ability. Nothing else.
So if an american newly and very advanced nail is toyota...then bliskunov must be a lada or something like that.
Finally, the only one LL'er that I knew that lengthened more than 8 cm on femurs (Tall who lengthened 10cm) needed a second tibia operation to fix his biomechanics and to avoid knee pain. The 11cm you did is truly stupidity and I really wonder if you don't suffer arthritis in a few years from now.
But although I truly agree with what you say about bliakunov, I really wish you don't, health is above everything.
Anyway, anyone with a bit of brain could understand which is better between a 30yo mechanical nail and a newly released magnetic nail with fda approval.
So for me that conversation is over because the reality is really obvious and I wonder why you are so fanatic about insisting that bliskunov is the best nail out there while it is being used only from a Palestinian in a third world country with civil war compared to a futuristic nail with am fda approval that it will be used in tenths of west countries in a few months!
Bodybuilder please, now you're just making yourself look bad.
"nail which lengthens by twisting your broken leg (!)"
No, no, you're confusing Bliskunov with the old Albizzia - Dr Guichet's nail. Bliskunov includes a part in the pelvis that connects the femur to the pelvis. With the patient lying on his back, each leg is moved sideways generating the clicks, several of which make up 1mm, the desired daily length. This is completely painless and the doctor assists with the clicking as he did for me for the duration of my lengthening phase.
"anyone with a bit of brain could understand which is better between a 30yo mechanical nail and a newly released magnetic nail with fda approval."
Actually, anyone with a brain can understand that the less moving parts a device has, the less complicated and thus the less the likelihood of anything going wrong. The last thing you want is for a nail to stop working halfway through your lengthening!! What a disaster that would be. As for the FDA, don't get me started on these cretins. Just google 'fda is a corrupt organisation' and do your own research.
"the only one LL'er that I knew that lengthened more than 8 cm on femurs (Tall who lengthened 10cm) needed a second tibia operation to fix his biomechanics and to avoid knee pain. The 11cm you did is truly stupidity "
How tall was that fella to begin with? I had a starting height of 5'8, so 11cm for me is not the same as 11cm for a guy of 5'5 or 5'6. And please, for the last time, I took a calculated risk, played it by ear and stopped when it was time to stop. I was actually going for 12cm, but I agree with you in that 11cm is an exception more than the norm and involves much more risk. 7-8cm is a safe and easily achievable gain for someone well prepared. Furthermore, it took a lot of hard work on my part and I wouldn't recommend anyone else going for such an extreme gain.
"I wonder why you are so fanatic about insisting that bliskunov is the best nail out there while it is being used only from a Palestinian in a third world country"
Because I speak from personal experience! Can you do the same? Did you have your surgery with Precice? To quote your first post:
Hello to this forum as it is my firts post here.
I am the LL veteran known to some of you from the old forum with the same nickname.
I underwent ATL which was my biggest mistake. ATL always causes a reduction to plantar flexion strength but the most difficult for this operation is to completely lengthen both Ach. tendons in both feer the same.
In my case, the left AT is longer than the right one which causes imbalances and sometimes even a small limp.
Also, I am completely sure that both my tendons are overlengthened but especially the left one.
For all these reasons I can completely assure you that Catagni and every other doctor than suggests ATL are completely wrong. In the best scenario you'll have a moderate plantar flexion reduction but most of the times the loss of plantar flexion power may lead to crouch gait and loss of most of athletic abilities like running and jumping.
I'm lucky that my case is not so severe but I still don't have completely normal walking gait most of the times and my left ankle feel vert loose.
Thats why I'll have on 2 months a new operation to shorten my Ach. tendons. I am very positive that my problems will go away when my tendons have again a normal length.
So, keep my words, you and every LL'er. Stay away from ATL!
I am sorry to hear of this and wish you well, but please, there is no need to attack the doctor's ethnic origin. This is racist. Would you say Dr Shahab Mahboubian is a lesser doctor due to his Iranian roots?!
Finally and for the last time, the Bliskunov nail is only offered here and by this doctor because it is proprietary - the rights passed from Prof Bliskunov to Dr Dragan and now to Dr Nemer upon Dr Dragan's tragic death in 2011. It is a trade secret. Do Coca Cola or KFC share their recipe/formula with their rivals?
As for me, Bliskunov is and remains the Porsche or AK-47 of internal nails) a solid and reliable piece of machinery.
However, due to all this noise about the nails, I have asked Dr Nemer to do 2 things:
1. Make a video presentation about his nails, so patients have a better understanding and can make more informed decisions.
2. To consider offering Precice/Stryde as additional options alongside his own.
So once again, watch this space.
Peace to all.
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Bodybuilder please, now you're just making yourself look bad.
"nail which lengthens by twisting your broken leg (!)"
No, no, you're confusing Bliskunov with the old Albizzia - Dr Guichet's nail. Bliskunov includes a part in the pelvis that connects the femur to the pelvis. With the patient lying on his back, each leg is moved sideways generating the clicks, several of which make up 1mm, the desired daily length. This is completely painless and the doctor assists with the clicking as he did for me for the duration of my lengthening phase.
"anyone with a bit of brain could understand which is better between a 30yo mechanical nail and a newly released magnetic nail with fda approval."
Actually, anyone with a brain can understand that the less moving parts a device has, the less complicated and thus the less the likelihood of anything going wrong. The last thing you want is for a nail to stop working halfway through your lengthening!! What a disaster that would be. As for the FDA, don't get me started on these cretins. Just google 'fda is a corrupt organisation' and do your own research.
"the only one LL'er that I knew that lengthened more than 8 cm on femurs (Tall who lengthened 10cm) needed a second tibia operation to fix his biomechanics and to avoid knee pain. The 11cm you did is truly stupidity "
How tall was that fella to begin with? I had a starting height of 5'8, so 11cm for me is not the same as 11cm for a guy of 5'5 or 5'6. And please, for the last time, I took a calculated risk, played it by ear and stopped when it was time to stop. I was actually going for 12cm, but I agree with you in that 11cm is an exception more than the norm and involves much more risk. 7-8cm is a safe and easily achievable gain for someone well prepared. Furthermore, it took a lot of hard work on my part and I wouldn't recommend anyone else going for such an extreme gain.
"I wonder why you are so fanatic about insisting that bliskunov is the best nail out there while it is being used only from a Palestinian in a third world country"
Because I speak from personal experience! Can you do the same? Did you have your surgery with Precice? To quote your first post:
I am sorry to hear of this and wish you well, but please, there is no need to attack the doctor's ethnic origin. This is racist. Would you say Dr Shahab Mahboubian is a lesser doctor due to his Iranian roots?!
Finally and for the last time, the Bliskunov nail is only offered here and by this doctor because it is proprietary - the rights passed from Prof Bliskunov to Dr Dragan and now to Dr Nemer upon Dr Dragan's tragic death in 2011. It is a trade secret. Do Coca Cola or KFC share their recipe/formula with their rivals?
As for me, Bliskunov is and remains the Porsche or AK-47 of internal nails) a solid and reliable piece of machinery.
However, due to all this noise about the nails, I have asked Dr Nemer to do 2 things:
1. Make a video presentation about his nails, so patients have a better understanding and can make more informed decisions.
2. To consider offering Precice/Stryde as additional options alongside his own.
So once again, watch this space.
Peace to all.
My first post here was 1.5 year back.
As I mentioned on the forum, on April of 2017 I did a corrective surgery to shorten my tendons and straighten my right tibia.
Now I am much much better than before and my functions are normal. Running is not as fast as before LL and I can't jump that high but I walk perfectly, have balance and generally I am very happy with my condition .
But I'll inform against atl for as long as I have the power to do. It is my duty.
I'll not argue more about stryde and bliskunov. It is like saying that the new la ferrari is worse than a lada niva because it has 1000 more technology.
Finally, no I haven't had a personal experience from stryde but what does that mean? If we have diaries here that patients can walk in a few weeks after surgery and the nail is reliable to lengthen properly up to the amount the patient wants, what more would I need to see to think that this nail is the best out there?
And if that nail is reliable (like precise 2.2 which was very reliable) then what bemefit has the bliskunov over it?
Just mention me one!
For now, I've seen very poor callus formation with bliskunov, like I saw with albizzia and never with precise or fitbone. I believe that this has to do with the mechanic clicking compared to magnetic. Maybe I am wrong. But albizzia caused many non unions (bliskunov is rarely used but even with that we have seen non unions here) but never with precise.
So, if stryde is reliable (which would be as it is a stronger precise 2.2) then bliskunov does not have even a single benefit.
Everyrhing else about porsches and all these are non sense. And in that case, porsche is stryde while bliskunov is an obsolete but reliable hyundai or suzuki.
And yes fda is corrupted but generally it is very strict, the most strict health federation in the world.
So I trust it much more than health federations of other countries, especially of third world or east europe.
Finally, I am not against bliskunov nail. It is maybe a good choice and much better than doing lin on femurs like some doctors in Rusia do, which is risky and barbaric.
I also think it is better than the albizzia craps that Guichet and Betz uses. But it should have been much cheaper.
As you said, it is not a complicated machine and has only a few moving parts. So, the price should have been much much less and not the same as precise which is a very new technology and has a lot of reasons to be more expensive.
Anyway, everyone is free to go wherever he wants. My opinion is that there are much better choices than giving 40k euros to go to Nemer.
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First of all, I am very happy to hear this:
Now I am much much better than before and my functions are normal. Running is not as fast as before LL and I can't jump that high but I walk perfectly, have balance and generally I am very happy with my condition"
I am tired of arguing too, let's just agree to disagree shall we? As mentioned above, watch out for a presentation video of the Bliskunov nail, coming to a forum near you soon!
Also, to be confirmed if and when Dr J will offer Precice/Stryde in the future.
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With the patient lying on his back, each leg is moved sideways generating the clicks, several of which make up 1mm, the desired daily length.
Well, this year a patient of Jamal stated on his diary that doctor twist the leg right and left and twisting of legs accidentally clicks nail.
So not just moving sideways but also twisting legs can lengthen a Jamal nail.
These accidental clicks are dangerous enough to develop non-unions, and twisting movements also are considered to be a cause of delayed consolidation.
I don't understand why you think people should not read these diaries before choosing a good doctor.
Not only after reading lots of diaries, but also reading your recent posts, I'm very much convinced that I should not go to Ukraina.
What you are writing just to turn many people away from Ukraina, Jamal nail.
$50,000 for Precice in Greece or a clicking Jamal nail which produces too many non unions for the same price? It is just so obvious.
It's like you are making fun of Dr Jamal via excessive praises.
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Well, this year a patient of Jamal stated on his diary that doctor twist the leg right and left and twisting of legs accidentally clicks nail.
So not just moving sideways but also twisting legs can lengthen a Jamal nail.
These accidental clicks are dangerous enough to develop non-unions, and twisting movements also are considered to be a cause of delayed consolidation.
I don't understand why you think people should not read these diaries before choosing a good doctor.
Not only after reading lots of diaries, but also reading your recent posts, I'm very much convinced that I should not go to Ukraina.
What you are writing just to turn many people away from Ukraina, Jamal nail.
$50,000 for Precice in Greece or a clicking Jamal nail which produces too many non unions for the same price? It is just so obvious.
It's like you are making fun of Dr Jamal via excessive praises.
Gosh, no sooner am I done with one troll, up pops another! My beating stick is getting a little weary) Probably the same troll with multiple usernames for all I know) The bad English seems a little obvious and deliberate, or some agent of a Greek doctor.
Clicking is not and cannot be done through twisting of legs! You probably misunderstood what your read, given English appears not your first language . If you'd like to point out exactly where Rocky said this, I'll be glad to investigate further. Accidental clicks are rare but even so, are not a problem, they can simply be reconciled with the daily clicking. As it take so many clicks to make 1mm, a couple of clicks here or there makes no difference and is no cause for concern, so please save the non-union scaremongering for another thread and time. The doctor controls the lengthening throughout this phase and once the desired gain is achieved, the clickers are taken out and no further clicking/growing of the nail is possible.
"Not only after reading lots of diaries, but also reading your recent posts I'm very much convinced that I should not go to Ukraina."
Please do read every diary under the sun! It might take you so many years, by which time you'll be too old to do LL )
"What you are writing just to turn many people away from Ukraina, Jamal nail."
Lol, really? I think your other troll pals calling me a promoter might disagree with you on this one.
$50,000 for Precice in Greece or a clicking Jamal nail which produces too many non unions for the same price? It is just so obvious.
It's like you are making fun of Dr Jamal via excessive praises.
Go to Greece then, or is someone holding you back? Everyone is free to go where they like ok. I am not praising anyone, but merely defending the spreading of disinformation by people like you.
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Harsh reality is never easy for parents to accept. Don't listen to them. If you were 6 feet tall they could have been right, but your height starts with 5, so you are right in choosing leg lengthening.
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I told my parents recently about my desire to have the surgery (I have saved almost 70k) and they are completely against it.
2 reasons why:
(1): "It's all in your head, it's an internal issue, you need to change your perspective", etc etc.
(2): They think the procedure is crazy and unwarranted for my disposition and that it is very high risk.
My father is a doctor and he has asked many orthopedic friends of his about this surgery and all of them are against it.
His main fear is an Osteomyelitis infection.
I would like to hear your opinions as to the risks of the surgery. Is it really not worth the risk/reward assessment? I have everything else going relatively well for me in life, it's just this dysphoria that has been a large burden for me over the past 5 years since I stopped growing.
Ps: I am 5'6.5, 21 years old, male, and am aiming for a 5.5-7 cm gain through PRECISE internal femurs hopefully with a U.S. doctor (Rozbruch or Paley), but might have to settle for an international one (Lee or Birkholtz)
Morale of the story - do not tell anybody, I also learned that way - told my 2 best friends and they are like 'it is a wastage of money, you should rather just get hair transplant etc. etc.'
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Even 5.5cm gain is life changing. Obviously if you have no hair you can get a hair transplant too (if you really care about that, you'll never have the same hair as before is the reality) but with LL, you will indeed get those 5.5cm.
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Harsh reality is never easy for parents to accept. Don't listen to them. If you were 6 feet tall they could have been right, but your height starts with 5, so you are right in choosing leg lengthening.
Wtf
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Ok, this is just too obvious and i've had enough patience for you. Can admin ban this clown promoting a fking sh!ty bone non-union nail from Kiev made by a palestine refugee?
he is spreading this jamar nail garbage all over the forum for comission, innocent people are gonna get butchered.
this is really bad, admin/mod are gonna take action anytime soon? He mirrors the complaints on the nail he is promoting on Precice. this is a well known psychopath trait.
It is just so obvious.
It's like you are making fun of Dr Jamal via excessive praises.
I don't think he's that obvious. Maybe he's a happy patient. I agree that hyperbolic posts make bad impression. Same with Helloworld, Musicmaker Auron and Monegal staff (Patient Privacy and Cinderella).
Old example by Helloworlds
But from my and almost all other patients experience, Dr. Monegal is by far the best choice for CLL.
this post makes Monegal look bad. I hope you know that. The last sentence you wrote is way too hyperbolic
Fkin communist propaganda is like a lullaby comparing to this crap
I find him sketchy due to the all the controversy surrounding him, I'm not talking about his skills as a doctor. I find it very odd how this user seems to have an obsession with warning everyone to stay away from him. Then you have music maker who defends him religiously in an odd way every time he's brought up. Frankly I wouldn't trust either of these users opinion on this doctor, there's obviously something weird going on that we probably do not have the full story on. His nail also seems to have a lot of problems, so there is some legitimacy to this user's claims. There's too much controversy surrounding him for whatever reason. Also how he was apart of this forum and would get into it with other members is also something that struck me as odd, don't see any other LL doctors doing that.
It's tiring that every single thread at the moment is eventually being derailed into the exact same discussion, whether positive - through the almost advertisement like recommendations from helloworld on different doctors patient diaries such as the one and only Rozbruch diary we have or negative - from notimportant endlessly criticizing and spamming the same comments in any thread he can about Doctor Alex Monegal and I'm not sure who is damaging his reputation more.
The users helloworld and notimportant ought to both be given a warning for A) Forceful and zealous advertisement and recommendations of a doctor where they aren't necessary or relevant whenever possible and B) Endlessly dragging any discussion down, regardless of what it is to bashing Monegal respectively and C) Engaging in arguments between one another with endless abusive and petty comments when one posts a comment about Monegal.
Look, whoever you are, I'm most happy that you've completed your lengthening unscathed and successfully.
But please, if you would like to promote Monegal's business by stating that for all 8 of you, "clicking was totally painless" - PLEASE do it somewhere else because you are insulting our intelligence with your transparent motives. It is people like yourselves who mislead others into thinking that this procedure is easy and painfree.
It is damned disrespectful to use this very thread to promote another doctor's practice. It is never a GUICHET vs MONEGAL battle here, and I don't see other insecure doctors like PALEY sending their minions over to promote their dwindling businesses while bashing other doctors.
I'm sorry for you that your recovery has not been as fast as you hoped for, and I'm sure since Monegal has a perfect record of success, not being able to run faster than Usain Bolt after leg lengthening must be contrued as a complication.
In any case, when you pass GO, don't forget to collect $200 from Monegal.
How can mods know if people post the truth or are trolls or promoters? Everybody should be allowed to post and readers can take their own conclusions. Tallerinkiev is a valuable user of the forum. In my opinion no ban for him.
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I tried to quote Musicmaker but I can't see her posts. Did she block me?