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Author Topic: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?  (Read 18259 times)

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Morgenst.

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What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« on: October 09, 2014, 01:38:55 AM »

I've gotten in touch with Dr. Barinovs contact Irene and she informed me that he does can do "external and internal" which I assume means Lon of LATN for 2000 euros more than the listed price. originally I was set on pure external and staying the entire consolidation phase in Russia but if for 2000 more it cuts the time I gotta spend in Russia and is about the same price as if I did externals when factoring in housing and meals after the initial three month coverage. So I wondering in layman's terms if you could what's the so bad about doing LON and LATN on tibias?
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programdude

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2014, 02:10:04 AM »

To my understanding the main thing, that at least turned me off, is permanent knee pain.
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Dr. Paley Patient- Surgery completed successfully on July 22nd
My Diary for those who want a real play by play to know what to expect:http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=733.0

Starting height: 5 8
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Morgenst.

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2014, 03:17:25 AM »

Right we've read that on here but I can't figure out how exactly? Is the nail inserted through the knee?
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programdude

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2014, 03:27:34 AM »

Yeah it is
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Dr. Paley Patient- Surgery completed successfully on July 22nd
My Diary for those who want a real play by play to know what to expect:http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=733.0

Starting height: 5 8
End Height-:5 11 +

Medium Drink Of Water

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 03:45:27 AM »

The patellar tendon is split and pulled apart to make a path for the nail to go into the tibia.  Studies have shown 25% of patients who've had this done end up with permanent discomfort in their knees.
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Gained 3 inches on tibias (Ilizarov LON) in 2007 at the Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology with Prof. Hetao Xia and Dr. Aiming Peng.

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short_outside_tall_inside

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 04:43:02 AM »

The patellar tendon is split and pulled apart to make a path for the nail to go into the tibia.  Studies have shown 25% of patients who've had this done end up with permanent discomfort in their knees.

does this depend on how much do you lengthen?
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ShortyMcShort

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 05:41:28 AM »

Hi Herron52, do you happen to know how long a patient can stay in Russia for? Last I heard it was maximum 6 months.
I would probably go to Russia and also stay the entire lengthening and consolidation phase and go home once frames are removed but 6 months is simply not enough time...

Could you ask which visa you'd need and if a patient can get an extension on it?
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Morgenst.

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 05:58:44 AM »

I plan to yes. She did say six months maximum and then went on to pitch combined internal. I'm curious to see how and if an extension is even possible. Perhaps it depends on your country of origin and their relations with Russia? No idea honestly. I do know that RGkEY stayed for about eight to nine months there til he got his frames off so.. There's got to be a way
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Medium Drink Of Water

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 06:11:42 AM »

does this depend on how much do you lengthen?

Not one bit.
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Gained 3 inches on tibias (Ilizarov LON) in 2007 at the Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology with Prof. Hetao Xia and Dr. Aiming Peng.

If you have any questions, ask them here rather than by Private Message:
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KrP1

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 08:47:58 AM »

Nice to see that. The problem is knee pain
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KrP1

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2014, 09:15:42 AM »

Why doctor doesnt inser the nail by another way and allways through the knee when is well know that it makes knee pain?
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ShortyMcShort

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2014, 09:56:04 AM »

I plan to yes. She did say six months maximum and then went on to pitch combined internal. I'm curious to see how and if an extension is even possible. Perhaps it depends on your country of origin and their relations with Russia? No idea honestly. I do know that RGkEY stayed for about eight to nine months there til he got his frames off so.. There's got to be a way

RGKEY IS the reason why you cant stay for more than 6months now lol  ;) They had visa issues with him and got in trouble or something and now they cant offer more than 6 months hence why I was thinking of India which according to Kilokahn you can get a medical visa and stay for 6months and get another 4 months extension once over there? So in total 10 months which is close to enough time for frame removal? Depending on how many cms you lengthen of course  :)

It works out roughly the same as Dr Barinov for me, its also hospital vs hotel in terms of accommodation

Could you give me more info on what she pitched to you regarding combined internal? Im quite interested on the topic?
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Overdozer

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2014, 11:00:55 AM »

Dude, you don't need to stay here for your consolidation phase, that's completely uncalled for. It's a very boring phase and requires only patience.
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Pre-surgery - 167 cm, Post-surgery - 181 cm
Final arm span - 177 cm, Sitting height - 90 cm

Lengthened 7.5 cm in tibias and femurs and 3.5 cm in each humerus. Surgeries performed all external by Dr. Kulesh, in Saint-Petersburg, Russia - http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=1671.0

ShortyMcShort

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2014, 11:15:41 AM »

Well there are some of us who dont want our parents or friends and family seeing us in these hideous, medieval torture looking fixators and Im one of them. So going back home early to consolidate is a problem for me, especially since I wont be telling anyone, not even my parents lol. Atleast until I get back home after frame removal anyway. It will be a long and boring process no doubt but what can you do but cop it and hopefully get through it  :'(

Plus I really dont want to go through the airport and get through customs with them on...

Do you think a patient can do say 5cms tibias, stay and consolidate and do Precice 2 on femurs for another 6-7cms 7-8 months after the initial tibia surgery while the fixators are still on your tibias and go home once you are done lengthening femurs and frame removal? Or is that a bad idea?
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Overdozer

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2014, 11:29:12 AM »

Plus I really dont want to go through the airport and get through customs with them on...
??
Are you afraid they're going to strip you and search for guns in your anus, because they can't really use the metal detector machine?

At the very least you can rent an appartment in your country and just hide there instead of staying in Russia, lol.

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Do you think a patient can do say 5cms tibias, stay and consolidate and do Precice 2 on femurs for another 6-7cms 7-8 months after the initial tibia surgery while the fixators are still on your tibias and go home once you are done lengthening femurs and frame removal? Or is that a bad idea?
Why not? And 5cm tibias shouldn't require you more than 6 months usually, at least if you're in your 20s.
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Pre-surgery - 167 cm, Post-surgery - 181 cm
Final arm span - 177 cm, Sitting height - 90 cm

Lengthened 7.5 cm in tibias and femurs and 3.5 cm in each humerus. Surgeries performed all external by Dr. Kulesh, in Saint-Petersburg, Russia - http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=1671.0

ShortyMcShort

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2014, 11:40:32 AM »


At the very least you can rent an appartment in your country and just hide there instead of staying in Russia, lol.
Why not? And 5cm tibias shouldn't require you more than 6 months usually, at least if you're in your 20s.

Renting an apartment in my home country and go into lockdown seems just as depressing as staying in a hotel for months and months lol. And the likelihood of getting seen on one of those days when I'll go for xrays or doctor visits seems very likely  :o

I can apply for a one year medical visa in my home country and hopefully that will be enough time to do both segments consecutively, thats the plan so I think I'll be consolidating there(most likely going to be India with Dr Parihar)

If 5cms requires roughly 6 months then that will be great for me, but ofcourse everyone is different.
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GROWtalORdieTRYING1

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2014, 12:46:48 PM »

don't do it if you only have a limit of 6 months. the stress of your visa running out will be a fuking nightmare in my opinion.

apply for a medical visa to encompass the entire duration such as an entire year. if you cant get at least 8 months then forget about Russia. or get LON in Russia. but full external should not be undertaken unless your visa is 8 months long.
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PrettyTall

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2014, 09:09:14 AM »

don't do it if you only have a limit of 6 months. the stress of your visa running out will be a fuking nightmare in my opinion.

apply for a medical visa to encompass the entire duration such as an entire year. if you cant get at least 8 months then forget about Russia. or get LON in Russia. but full external should not be undertaken unless your visa is 8 months long.
 
why not ? what about a person who don't care about being seen whit frames like me , i wanna do external stay for the first two weeks and length  home
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GROWtalORdieTRYING1

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2014, 09:17:15 AM »

I don't recommend getting surgery if you don't have access to a doctor.

ultimately you can do anything you like.

worst case scenario, you need surgery and don't have a visa. and have to wait for the visa approval which can take time.

what happens if you have premature bone consolidation.

in any case you don't need me to tell you the risks. you probably already know them. this is a 1nce in a life time surgery. I believe it should be done right.
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123

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2014, 12:54:20 PM »

 
why not ? what about a person who don't care about being seen whit frames like me , i wanna do external stay for the first two weeks and length  home

I wouldn't recommend this, there so many complications that can occur (and probably will).

But I don't think that your doc will even let you go home 2 weeks after the first operation, maybe after distraction, but not before that.
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Morgenst.

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2014, 10:59:33 PM »

I definitely would stay the six months the visa allows. By the end of it I'd be well in the consolidation stage with maybe two to three or four months remaining in the frames. I do think there's a lot less risk in doing that than simply taking off as soon as lengthening is done, due to the fact that by then I'll have been consolidating for least two months. So the rate of regeneration should be well established by then. I figured once I get back to the US I can take X-rays biweekly or so send them to the Dr while keeping up with all the aftercare necessary and go from there. Worst case scenario I have dr Rozbruch in NY right by me and I can consult with him should anything go wrong.
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ub40

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2016, 10:18:50 PM »

Can we get back to the original topic? Is there ways for doctors to mitigate this or has there been any new techniques?
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170-176 cm, May 2016 still consolidating

abo

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2016, 06:10:07 PM »

http://www.childrenshospital.org/centers-and-services/anterior-cruciate-ligament-program/bridge-enhanced-acl-repair-trial

What do you guys think about this?! if the problem with this operation will be the knee? is it possible to recover 100% from this operation?
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182-183 on the morning! 181cm the whole day! the night 180,5/180,8cm!

7231

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2018, 04:24:21 AM »

reviving the thread since  I also want onions on pitfalls on lon/latn vs complete external. In pm many people  advised me against latn/lon, but going full external woyld mean 9 months out of job.
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Android

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2018, 06:05:45 AM »

reviving the thread since  I also want onions on pitfalls on lon/latn vs complete external. In pm many people  advised me against latn/lon, but going full external woyld mean 9 months out of job.

LATN was the method of choice by Dr. Rozbruch for many years and he was quite the evangelist, before the advent of Precice of course.

As a reminder Precice was cleared by the FDA in 2011, the improved 2.0 version in 2014, so LATN is relatively contemporary. Here's some research by Dr. Rozbruch, you can read the Abstract and Discussion sections for the pros and cons compared directly against classic Ilizarov.
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5'4" and 1/4" (163.2 cm) | United States | early 30s | Cross-lengthening with Dr. Solomin & Dr. Kulesh

myloginacct

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2018, 01:52:44 PM »

LATN was the method of choice by Dr. Rozbruch for many years and he was quite the evangelist, before the advent of Precice of course.

As a reminder Precice was cleared by the FDA in 2011, the improved 2.0 version in 2014, so LATN is relatively contemporary. Here's some research by Dr. Rozbruch, you can read the Abstract and Discussion sections for the pros and cons compared directly against classic Ilizarov.

Thanks for the links.
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7231

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2018, 03:49:56 PM »

LATN was the method of choice by Dr. Rozbruch for many years and he was quite the evangelist, before the advent of Precice of course.

As a reminder Precice was cleared by the FDA in 2011, the improved 2.0 version in 2014, so LATN is relatively contemporary. Here's some research by Dr. Rozbruch, you can read the Abstract and Discussion sections for the pros and cons compared directly against classic Ilizarov.

Thanks man
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419

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2018, 06:09:49 PM »

The patellar tendon is split and pulled apart to make a path for the nail to go into the tibia.  Studies have shown 25% of patients who've had this done end up with permanent discomfort in their knees.

then why you did LON?
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AlphaX

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2018, 10:45:29 PM »

Good question ! If there is a risk of permanent pain or discomfort with LON/LATN why people still do that ?
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24 years | LON on Femur done.

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myloginacc

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Re: What are exact dangers of doing LATN/LON on tibias?
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2018, 12:56:42 AM »

Good question ! If there is a risk of permanent pain or discomfort with LON/LATN why people still do that ?

They don't want to spend a year with frames on their legs, but don't have money for internal femurs.
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Yes I do want to add, before doing this surgery, ask yourself if you have optimized your life to the fullest extent possible (job/career, personality, etc).
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