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Author Topic: Total Time Commitment  (Read 21198 times)

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Tright75

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Total Time Commitment
« on: January 03, 2015, 01:29:30 PM »

I am interested in LL and have begun researching the process. The single most important factor, besides doctor, is the amount of total time it will take. This is highly important as it will determine when I have the surgery, if I have it.

Start date: day of surgery
End date: the first day I can walk around normally and experience a normal day (but does not include running, exercise, etc.)

About how long can I expect it to take from the start date to the end date?

Thanks!
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afonso

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2015, 05:41:23 PM »

That depends on the method you choose and LL goal.  if you dig around someone posted a chart with all the methods and their details including expected time.  I did Precice II Internal Femur and for that method plan on:

Surgery + one week before lengthening       7 days
1mm per day - lets assume max 8cm         80 days
consolidation period                                 45-60 days
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Tright75

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2015, 08:14:26 PM »

Thanks afonso!

Follow-ups for you or anyone else who can comment:

1. Is the consolidation period directly proportional to the total lengthening or is it exponential, etc? I would plan on lengthening 6.35 cm, so would the consolidation period be proportionally less than 45-60 days or is the 45-60 days a fixed amount regardless of lengthening amount?

2. Is Precice II Internal Femur the fastest method? Is there a tradeoff between speed and safety?

If anyone has the link to that chart it would be appreciated. I shall try to find it myself.
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ReadRothbard

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2015, 06:27:30 AM »

This very strongly depends on which method you use. LON could have you walking normally within about 3-4 months of the surgery. The same is the case for the Salamehfix. Externals probably will take twice that time. Internals, such as the Guichet nail or Betzbone, might have you walking normally as soon as you are done lengthening! PRECICE won't have you walking normally for four months or so, but it's a pretty reliable nail, so I would recommend it more than externals or LON/LATN.

It all depends on what you do.
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“If you're afraid - don't do it, - if you're doing it - don't be afraid!” ― Genghis Khan

Height: 170 cm(66.9") Sitting Height: 95 cm (37.5") Goal: 183-185 cm (6'0-6'1)

Physics major, male stripper, powerlifter,

Ajax2thousand20

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2015, 09:41:03 AM »

For me I'm hoping 2-3 months since Intend to do 4-4.5cms. Does anyone think it can be done that quick in that amount of length? But this is a great question that should be discussed.
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Starting height: 185.5cms Goal/ dream height:190-193cms!
Sitting height:94 cms Arm Length: 86.5 cms 
Leg length:104 cms Arm Span:191 cms
Tibia: 48 cms Femurs:55cms

ForcedPuberty

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2015, 10:25:59 AM »

you MIGHT be able to do 4 cm.

7 days to fly, and pack and get accommodation, do doctors checks, and settle in, and prepare the things you will need after surgery.

7 days for inflammation to go down before you can start lengthening.

then you have 2 choices.

Quote
1) potentially fk yourself up with massive balarina by doing 1mm per day for 40 days..... (ps you will not be able to do this amount even if you wanted to)

2) or option 2. do 0.66mm per day for 60 days.

option 1: 7+7+40= 55 days. it could be possible that you will in 1 months time be allowed to put LON on. but I doubt any doctor will take your external frames off as you will have not enough callus.

option 2: 7+7+60= 75 days 1 month later you can get LON placed on you. no doctor will let you remove external frame straight away.


remember. after you finish lengthening you have at least 1 month before lon can be placed and external frame removed. after this 1 month it will take 1 month before you can walk without your walker and with crutches.



conclusion.............. no way in hell can you achieve this in 3 months.


75 days + 30 days (when frame is removed)(and lon placed) = 105 days 3.33 months. and even at this point in time for 4cm. you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO WALK.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 10:50:35 AM by ForcedPuberty »
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Nope, 20cm is just nope.

"because FP's the hero LL Forum deserves, but not the one is needs right now. So we'll hunt him, because he can take it. because hes not the hero. He's a silent gardian, watchfull protector. The Dark Knight."

Ajax2thousand20

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2015, 10:32:56 AM »

you MIGHT be able to do 4 cm.

Right but could I be walking again in 2-3 to 4 months Max w/o support? I know if someone accidentally breaks their bone it takes 6-8weeks to heal so I'm hoping

4cms=40 days 6-8weeks= 3months total

Does this equation work?
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Starting height: 185.5cms Goal/ dream height:190-193cms!
Sitting height:94 cms Arm Length: 86.5 cms 
Leg length:104 cms Arm Span:191 cms
Tibia: 48 cms Femurs:55cms

ForcedPuberty

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2015, 10:37:11 AM »

I gave the post more information. because I don't think it was clear from what I posted before.
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Nope, 20cm is just nope.

"because FP's the hero LL Forum deserves, but not the one is needs right now. So we'll hunt him, because he can take it. because hes not the hero. He's a silent gardian, watchfull protector. The Dark Knight."

Ajax2thousand20

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2015, 10:51:46 AM »

I may be able to do it with Precice but not with LON. 4 months isn't out of the question but may have to do PT in America. It still shouldn't take more than 6 months.
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Starting height: 185.5cms Goal/ dream height:190-193cms!
Sitting height:94 cms Arm Length: 86.5 cms 
Leg length:104 cms Arm Span:191 cms
Tibia: 48 cms Femurs:55cms

ForcedPuberty

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2015, 11:14:25 AM »

internals slow bone consolidation tremendously. and the precise is not weight bearing.


you still might not be able to walk for an extended duration. just like lon.

to get back to walking properly you really need to give yourself 6 months.

you cant bargain with god. no matter how much you want something to be quicker the body has limitations. just take a 6 month break and deal with it.
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Nope, 20cm is just nope.

"because FP's the hero LL Forum deserves, but not the one is needs right now. So we'll hunt him, because he can take it. because hes not the hero. He's a silent gardian, watchfull protector. The Dark Knight."

afonso

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2015, 07:12:33 PM »

Thanks afonso!

Follow-ups for you or anyone else who can comment:

1. Is the consolidation period directly proportional to the total lengthening or is it exponential, etc? I would plan on lengthening 6.35 cm, so would the consolidation period be proportionally less than 45-60 days or is the 45-60 days a fixed amount regardless of lengthening amount?

2. Is Precice II Internal Femur the fastest method? Is there a tradeoff between speed and safety?

If anyone has the link to that chart it would be appreciated. I shall try to find it myself.

For Precice I haven't seen any doctor differentiate consolidation duration with lengthening goal but my opinion the less the goal the shorter the consolidation.  That said I would still plan on a 60 day consolidation period.  I'm currently a LL patient in the consolidation period with a diary on this forum.  I'm at the 20 day mark follow my diary and at least you will have one example of how long it takes. 
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Ajax2thousand20

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2015, 10:12:10 PM »

For Precice I haven't seen any doctor differentiate consolidation duration with lengthening goal but my opinion the less the goal the shorter the consolidation.  That said I would still plan on a 60 day consolidation period.  I'm currently a LL patient in the consolidation period with a diary on this forum.  I'm at the 20 day mark follow my diary and at least you will have one example of how long it takes.

That's why Im considering 1.5 inches. Because walking is very important to me and the difference between 6'2.5"-6'3" is next to none. I'm aware it takes 6-8 weeks after lengthening is finished for your bone to consolidate adding 2 months to a 4month lengthening process.
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Starting height: 185.5cms Goal/ dream height:190-193cms!
Sitting height:94 cms Arm Length: 86.5 cms 
Leg length:104 cms Arm Span:191 cms
Tibia: 48 cms Femurs:55cms

Medium Drink Of Water

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2015, 10:34:02 PM »

I am interested in LL and have begun researching the process. The single most important factor, besides doctor, is the amount of total time it will take. This is highly important as it will determine when I have the surgery, if I have it.

Start date: day of surgery
End date: the first day I can walk around normally and experience a normal day (but does not include running, exercise, etc.)

About how long can I expect it to take from the start date to the end date?

Thanks!

For me, to lengthen 7.5cm, this took about 8-9 months.  Complications and setbacks are part of LL.  Plans of lengthening 1mm a day every day for 63 days straight to get 6.3 cm probably won't end up working out.
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Gained 3 inches on tibias (Ilizarov LON) in 2007 at the Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology with Prof. Hetao Xia and Dr. Aiming Peng.

If you have any questions, ask them here rather than by Private Message:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=64544

TomD

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2015, 01:42:25 AM »

For me, to lengthen 7.5cm, this took about 8-9 months.  Complications and setbacks are part of LL.  Plans of lengthening 1mm a day every day for 63 days straight to get 6.3 cm probably won't end up working out.

I agree with Medium.

How often in life has anything worked out exactly the way we planned? For me it rarely has.

If I want 6cm on femurs its probably 90 days to plan for hoping for no major setbacks. 8 cm on femurs 90-100 days .

I hope to be 6 inches taller and walking without aid 18-24 months after they first serve me up on a slab to be cut open. I think its a reasonable goal.
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ItsMyLife

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2015, 07:04:16 PM »

including ex fix removal? 8-9 mo?
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KrP1

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2015, 07:23:15 PM »

8 /9 months to walk unaided Medium?
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Ajax2thousand20

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2015, 07:28:48 PM »

For me, to lengthen 7.5cm, this took about 8-9 months.  Complications and setbacks are part of LL.  Plans of lengthening 1mm a day every day for 63 days straight to get 6.3 cm probably won't end up working out.

The best goal is to aim for 2cms per month which is .66 of a milometer. Should have little muscle tension there.
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Starting height: 185.5cms Goal/ dream height:190-193cms!
Sitting height:94 cms Arm Length: 86.5 cms 
Leg length:104 cms Arm Span:191 cms
Tibia: 48 cms Femurs:55cms

crimsontide

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2015, 08:38:27 PM »

i lengthened 7.5 cm in about4 months


even with achilles surgery... and perhaps another minor alignment issue... i can walk unaided now, and had surgery in april


im a fast healer though... but id say 9 months ios a good estiimate
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ItsMyLife

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2015, 09:06:10 PM »

did u have any pins brekaing on u?
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joax

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2015, 09:14:20 PM »

What I'm most concerned about is permanent knee pain. It seems to be very common with all internal methods. That's why I'm probably doing external tibias. Permanent knee pain is not something I want to have for the rest of my life.
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KiloKAHN

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2015, 09:32:54 PM »

I can't walk unaided yet but can use crutches or the walker.
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Surgery performed by Dr Mangal Parihar at Mangal Anand Center for Limb Lengthening & Reconstruction. http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=634.0
Pre-surgery height:  164 cm (Surgery on 6/25/2014)
Post-surgery height: 170 cm (Frames removed 6/29/2015)

TomD

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2015, 10:13:01 PM »

What I'm most concerned about is permanent knee pain. It seems to be very common with all internal methods. That's why I'm probably doing external tibias. Permanent knee pain is not something I want to have for the rest of my life.

Hi Joax

I keep reading this but cannot wrap my head around it. The nail is small and sits inside the bone. Why would it cause knee pain where externals dont? Can you point me to the medical opinions regarding this ?
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Medium Drink Of Water

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2015, 12:48:04 AM »

The problem is the insertion/extraction.  It goes right through the patellar tendon.
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Gained 3 inches on tibias (Ilizarov LON) in 2007 at the Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology with Prof. Hetao Xia and Dr. Aiming Peng.

If you have any questions, ask them here rather than by Private Message:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=64544

TomD

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2015, 07:41:34 AM »

The problem is the insertion/extraction.  It goes right through the patellar tendon.

Ouch.  :(

Any way around that? cut the tibia further down?
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Medium Drink Of Water

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2015, 06:42:52 PM »

There's one experimental method of inserting the nail through the side of the knee, but I don't know when/if it will ever become mainstream.
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Gained 3 inches on tibias (Ilizarov LON) in 2007 at the Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology with Prof. Hetao Xia and Dr. Aiming Peng.

If you have any questions, ask them here rather than by Private Message:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=64544

ReadRothbard

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2015, 12:03:39 AM »

That sounds like it makes more sense than tearing through the patellar tendon. Although, I'm sure most people could recover from tearing their patellar tendon in half. Ed Coan completely tore his patellar tendon while squatting during a powerlifting meet in the 1980s, and he was back to squatting over 700 lbs in 6 months.
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“If you're afraid - don't do it, - if you're doing it - don't be afraid!” ― Genghis Khan

Height: 170 cm(66.9") Sitting Height: 95 cm (37.5") Goal: 183-185 cm (6'0-6'1)

Physics major, male stripper, powerlifter,

Medium Drink Of Water

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2015, 12:33:30 AM »

That sounds like it makes more sense than tearing through the patellar tendon. Although, I'm sure most people could recover from tearing their patellar tendon in half. Ed Coan completely tore his patellar tendon while squatting during a powerlifting meet in the 1980s, and he was back to squatting over 700 lbs in 6 months.

Yeah, that's why doctors don't view it as a problem that needs to be addressed.  Some don't even know about knee issues with internal tibial nails.

Seems like a roll of the dice as to whether or not you have issues.
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Gained 3 inches on tibias (Ilizarov LON) in 2007 at the Beijing Institute of External Skeletal Fixation Technology with Prof. Hetao Xia and Dr. Aiming Peng.

If you have any questions, ask them here rather than by Private Message:
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=64544

tinkerbell

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2015, 05:50:45 PM »

Also don't estimate your lengthening rate at 1mm daily, it rarely works our like that, maybe upto 3.5cm you can but then everything starts tensing up and tightening and you might have to do 4 turns or 5, for someone to do 1mm is possible everyday but you would have to do loads of exercise and stretching, also you might have to stop lengthening for a few days or weeks  due to pinsite  infections, pain etc
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KiloKAHN

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2015, 08:06:07 PM »

I'll be happy if I can walk unaided before the 1 year anniversary of my surgery (June 25, 2014), but won't be surprised if I'm still unable to.
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Surgery performed by Dr Mangal Parihar at Mangal Anand Center for Limb Lengthening & Reconstruction. http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=634.0
Pre-surgery height:  164 cm (Surgery on 6/25/2014)
Post-surgery height: 170 cm (Frames removed 6/29/2015)

Dr Monegal

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2015, 10:02:08 PM »

Dear users

You are absolutely right about insertion of internals spreading patellar tendon may cause permanent knee pain. There are options for internals and we have discussed It several times.
Options to avoid patellar tendon spreading are to perform a suprapatellar approach or parapatellar approach.
Most os LL surgeons (i would say all of us) are aware of permanent knee pain after inserting nails throught the patellar tendon. I totally agree with you that insertion Is a key Point to prevent such permanent issue.

Best regards
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heightangel

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Re: Total Time Commitment
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2015, 04:28:39 PM »

I'll be happy if I can walk unaided before the 1 year anniversary of my surgery (June 25, 2014), but won't be surprised if I'm still unable to.

That's too much!  :-\
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