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[Thegosis]

I've taken the first irrevocable step to do this now and not later. As I paid down the debt from the previous venture in the first week of January and the rehabilitation of my walking form did not miss a beat during the holiday season, I started to look into the logistics of a second procedure by the femurs that would bring me from 5'9 to 6'0 thereabouts. Another procedure would bring me into the rare club of those who've lengthened both sections of their legs or gone beyond 10cm total.

And last night I cast the dice. I paid a stranger $340 for her $608 unused credit with Air Asia which will get me across the Indian Ocean and mostly back .. if the bookings are made within 3 months. I also emailed Dr Shah with a request for him to authorise the hospital's letter which will underly my application for a 12 months medical visa (up to 3 entries) to the Government of India. I've also prepared the visa application as far as that can be done at this stage.

So this means that if the letter comes and the visa issues in the normal course and the PRECICE nails are available and the flight at the right price comes up then I can be back on the torture rack and growing taller again by the stroke of my birthday #44 toward the end of next month. That's a few 'if's but this is going to happen one way or another. I've seen Sydney-Hyderabad promotional fares for $AUD354.

If anyone would like to help me out, India veterans particularly, let me know which other documents are required to support the application for medical visa; and also how should I get the whole way from where I am to where I'm going. Mumbai appears as an Air Asia destination acknowledged at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirAsia_Group_destinations but not at all by their online booking engine. What's a recommended way to get from Hyderabad to Mumbai, including train.

SPACE THIS WATCH

[Thegosis]

I briefly considered or favoured going back to Beijing for thigh externals due to my strong faith in Drs Zhao and Peng. I decided against it or rather in favour of Mumbai for a few short reasons. Mainly, they stop at 4-5cm and I'd like to see myself handle 7+. Further, those monorails mean that you can't swim or shower and can't lay on your side and they're a lesser technology overall. Finally I see the struggles and complications of those going that way as documented in places like this forum and the observation of Beijing patient LittleLiam(tm) that the femur patients who were there when he arrived were still there when he left.

[ReadRothbard]

I'm really excited to see a doctor Shah diary! Keep us posted!

[Thegosis]

http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=178.0
There's the link to the predecessor of this, my Beijing adventure from November 2013 through June 2014 & followup.

I've had it suggested to me that if I start next month I'll be the -first- foreign patient taking PRECICE in India. Could that be truly true??

[Uppland]

Good luck.

-Why did you decide to do a second operation?

-How is your recovery from the first op?

-How much will you do in total?

[KrP1]

hey thegosis, what about proportions? , do you think you will look fine with a torso of a 167cm boy in 183cm of height? can you post any photo of your actual proportions?

[Bohemia]

Can you share why you rationally selected India?

Perhaps I possess prejudices, but the idea of traveling to India, Africa, or Russia for a discount surgery seems preposterous. (I mean no disrespect, honestly)

[ReadRothbard]

Can you share why you rationally selected India?

Perhaps I possess prejudices, but the idea of traveling to India, Africa, or Russia for a discount surgery seems preposterous. (I mean no disrespect, honestly)

The deal with India is not poverty per se, but economic inequality. These surgeries are done in the wealthiest parts of India at hospitals that rival the healthcare standards of most developed nations. Essentially, the reason that these surgeries are discount are not that they are of sub-par quality, but that American dollars are very valuable in India compared to the ruppe.

[Thegosis]

I just measured my wingspan at 176cm+. Just before going into surgery was the first time I even discovered that my wingspan overshot my height by a substantial amount. So, yeh, didn't even concern me in the slightest. I'd even estimated measurements that way (eg. 3 x me = 5m, when its actually 1/3 of a metre more) & never ever measured myself in that dimension.  I'd have to make it to 185.5cm to rate  as overproportioned as I was underproportioned at the kickoff. So I'm good.

In all practical senses your arms are never too short unless you had to contort yourself to reach to the bottom of a hip pocket. That wouldn't seem to happen in our consideration (longer jeans, deeper pockets I s'pose, but only by a smidge).

In that sense I've never bought into the agonising over 'proportions' that we don't have to go too far to see around here. I can't think of an actress or an athlete whose image was killed for me by having short arms.

[Thegosis]

Well I've already done it with ('third world' country) China & been satisfied with the results, so that doesn't dispose me to writing a whole country off the map.

[Thegosis]

Well Uppland,

1. I've got the means & the time & would like to have the most of that tall privilege I've already begun to sample
2. See my Beijing thread for the report on my December Xrays. Link in my signature below.
3. The doc will ultimately determine this. For sure I won't be like Leechlet who went for 10cm after his doc said 'Stop NOW. I know what I'm talking about'.

[Thegosis]

Just don't go to India to hook up with some doc marketed to you by Captain fukknuckle running the old forum. Otherwise this forum might not even exist.

[Thegosis]

I may have confirmed elsewhere that $USD30000 is the price for the kit of PRECISE nail, and that is a worldwide rule.

The answer for India is a little different. It will be $US30k for the kits and there will also be another 10% for 'customs and taxes' and then also "5000 US dollars is deposit for magnetic device you will be using for 90 days and then you return to them they will return the deposit". This from Dr Shah directly.

So I'm currently arranging the method to make an up to $38k payment to Ellipse to have the hardware made available to the surgeon. When that's done I can count off 5 to 6 weeks for when I should plan to arrive in India.

I asked Dr Shah another question to which I'm surprised by the answer. I enquired the "maximum extenstion and weightbearing capacity of the nail" to which he replied "Approximately you can take 25 kg if you use the 10.7 mm Precice 2 nail". I think this must be the answer for one nail/leg, because I swear some other LLers have said that it is 150lb for the pair. But 25kg for one is just 110lb for the pair: 20lb per wrist more being borne by arms on a walking frame. Does it sound accurate or way too conservative?

[JP]

Hi,


Are you going to pay ($38,000) for the nail 6 weeks before your surgery? So are you going to pay the hospital ($38,000) by money transfer?


Regarding the payment would you explain how this works?

[JP]

hi

Could you ask the Doctor if he would accept the payment ($38,000) two days before surgery?

[Thegosis]

Well you can ask him yourself at drshahsuhas@gmail.com from which he'll personally reply from his iphone.

But I'm sure the answer will be that only when Ellipse receives payment can the process of importing the hardware commence, for which should be allowed 5-6 weeks. My only query is whether the deposit for the external magnetic unit would need to be paid at the outset or closer to when I take possession of it.

The payment will be to the manufacturer (Ellipse Technologies in the USA), not to the hospital.

[Thegosis]

I've been copied through with the list of documents requiring completion for importation of the device. A lot of red tape but the good news is that I don't have get any signoffs from any doctor in Australia. All that is done by the surgeon in India and I may have to come up with an address in India and perhaps sign as patient on the application.

The supplier has now quoted Rs 11.34 as the importation price inclusive of taxes. I don't now whether it is for 1 or 2 nails. That amount is equivalent to $US18350

[Thegosis]

Yes $Rs11.34 is the overall price for ONE of them, and two is exactly double.

[Thegosis]

Here is the wall of red tape to be mounted for getting the surgical device into the surgeon's possession:

1. Covering Letter from patient (Draft attached).
2. Form 12(A) from patient (Draft attached).
3. Letter from Treating Doctor regarding no objection for receiving Implant on behalf of patient (Draft enclosed).
4. Letter from Hospital (Draft attached).
5. Original Prescription of the patient.
6. Brief history of the patient.
7. Declaration from Treating doctor on the letterhead of Hospital duly signed and stamped (matter for declaration attached as pdf file)
8. Copy of Passport of the patient.
9. Copy of VISA of the patient
10. Copy of VISA application -specifying reason to visit India for Medical Treatment.
11. Registration certificate of the Surgeon.

I did not plan to have a visa when it is six weeks wait for the things to be available to the surgeon. I intend to seek the visa when it is certainly known if and when he'll have them.

[KiloKAHN]

The six weeks shouldn't be an issue. With a note from Dr Shah you can get an extra 4 months on your 6 month visa at the FRRO.

[Thegosis]

I've contacted Dr Shah and the supplier of the IM nails (Cure Surgical whose representative is Priyancka Qazi) to say that I'm not going through with my plans. Not a judgement on them but me feeling that I don't want to go across the world on another adventure like I've already had.

Also my mother's against it and was against me doing the first one, although I didn't tell her about it until I came home part-way through. I still do things she's always been against, like being a blood donor. Much better to put the money for this into her own wellbeing and that of insurance for myself.

Richard M Nixon lost his campaign for President of the US in 1960 and then lost another campaign for the Governor of California in 1962. Then he said: "Defeat does not finish a man; quitting does. A man is not finished when he's defeated. He's finished when he quits."

I quit.

[Thegosis]

I've put down $US41000 ($30000 for devices, $5000 refundable deposit, $6000 import duties) and booked my travel to Mumbai for 3 October. The PRECICE 2 IM nails should be there by the time I arrive. 8cm maximum, on femurs.

This will be a surprise to you all.

At this stage any tips or recommendations for accomodation in Mumbai would be appreciate and ANY LL'ERS/LL-wannabes WHO MAY BE IN INDIA FROM OCTOBER ONWARD SHOULD MESSAGE ME.

Yes it's official ..  the Double Down is back on.

[Penguinn]

I've put down $US41000 ($30000 for devices, $5000 refundable deposit, $6000 import duties) and booked my travel to Mumbai for 3 October. The PRECICE 2 IM nails should be there by the time I arrive. 8cm maximum, on femurs.

This will be a surprise to you all.

At this stage any tips or recommendations for accomodation in Mumbai would be appreciate and ANY LL'ERS/LL-wannabes WHO MAY BE IN INDIA FROM OCTOBER ONWARD SHOULD MESSAGE ME.

Yes it's official ..  the Double Down is back on.

Good for you! I also plan on 8cm in femurs.
I'm a Mumbai resident who plans on doing LL in early 2016. Isn't Dr. Shah in Delhi?

[kokoko]

I've put down $US41000 ($30000 for devices, $5000 refundable deposit, $6000 import duties) and booked my travel to Mumbai for 3 October. The PRECICE 2 IM nails should be there by the time I arrive. 8cm maximum, on femurs.

This will be a surprise to you all.

At this stage any tips or recommendations for accomodation in Mumbai would be appreciate and ANY LL'ERS/LL-wannabes WHO MAY BE IN INDIA FROM OCTOBER ONWARD SHOULD MESSAGE ME.

Yes it's official ..  the Double Down is back on.

Good for you, best luck!

[Thegosis]

Dr Suhas Shah is at the Ashwinii Accident Hospital of Mumbai. Not New Delhi.

[Thegosis]

Thank you for the benefit of that experience KK. I have received my six month tourist visa in the last week and it is for multiple entries commencing from its issued date of 10 September 2015. I had applied for a twelve month visa, also with multiple entries, but that was denied perhaps because I have never been to their country before.

I'm departing Sydney, Australia around noon on Friday 2 October and will first arrive (via Singapore layover) to Hyderabad at 1230am on Saturday. I'll depart Hyderabad at 0725 that day coming into the international airport of Mumbai at 845am. That same morning I'll meet Dr Shah in his clinic and later check in at a Hotel in the Maharacrapra District that is about 3km away. If all goes to plan the surgery can be done in the week of 5-9 October.

The import application for the PRECICE IM nail devices has been approved. The hope is that they get in the hands of the surgeon before I arrive and to assist that I have been tasked to provide bio stats and measurements of my femurs from xrays. These were:

 1. Circumference of each thigh at the groin
 2. Minimum and maximum bone canal diameters for each, both medial/lateral and anterior/posterior [1.2cm minimum for me]
 3. Thigh bone length [34-35cm, each one]
 4. My weight [at an all time high of about 92 kilos]

Cure Surgical is the agent in India for the import and distribution for the device from the manufacture PRECICE in the USA. I first started dealing with a Ms Priyancka Qazi at New Delhi for the import application and now it is a Mr Maxi Pereira of the same company that I'm dealing with. He's told me that a rep and product manager from PRECICE named Chris Yunker will be coming over (from the US?) specificly for me and the surgeon as it's a somewhat of a pioneering occurence for this doctor and the Indian market to do things by means of purely internal telescopic rod.

https://www.facebook.com/AshwiniiHospital/ Ashwinii Hospital on Facebook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPKQ55qkFb0 Demonstration of magnetic lengthing using the PRECICE features Dr Rozbruch

[Thegosis]

Head office for Cure Surgical in New Delhi, India:

S-12, 1st Floor,
Green Park Extension
New Delhi-110016
India
Email : curesurg@curesurgical.com
Phone : +91-11-26510059

[Thegosis]

Maxi Pereira from Cure Surgical in Mumbai has just informed me re the PRECICE IM nails: "We have placed the order for material and other paraphernalia . We should have the shipment with us by 6-7th Oct 2015. The proposed date of surgery is 14th Oct 2015 . Dr Shah is blocked this date in his calendar."

So I will have between 3 and 14 October in Mumbai, or other place I may choose to visit, to amuse myself.

Any suggestions?

I will stay at the Hotel Alma Court for my first two nights after arrival in Mumbai (http://hotelarma.com/arma_court.html)

[Penguinn]

In Mumbai, go to Phoenix Mills in Lower Parel if you're very bored. Pretty American place.

[Sean Connery]

I may have confirmed elsewhere that $USD30000 is the price for the kit of PRECISE nail, and that is a worldwide rule.

The answer for India is a little different. It will be $US30k for the kits and there will also be another 10% for 'customs and taxes' and then also "5000 US dollars is deposit for magnetic device you will be using for 90 days and then you return to them they will return the deposit". This from Dr Shah directly.

So I'm currently arranging the method to make an up to $38k payment to Ellipse to have the hardware made available to the surgeon. When that's done I can count off 5 to 6 weeks for when I should plan to arrive in India.

I asked Dr Shah another question to which I'm surprised by the answer. I enquired the "maximum extenstion and weightbearing capacity of the nail" to which he replied "Approximately you can take 25 kg if you use the 10.7 mm Precice 2 nail". I think this must be the answer for one nail/leg, because I swear some other LLers have said that it is 150lb for the pair. But 25kg for one is just 110lb for the pair: 20lb per wrist more being borne by arms on a walking frame. Does it sound accurate or way too conservative?

India has high import taxes for absolutely everything. It's why you end up actually spending more on buying something like a high def tv over there than you would elsewhere like in the USA. Might I ask how you came to the decision of choosing Dr. Shah over other doctors in India like Parihar or someone else?

[Thegosis]

I've had the operation as scheduled on 14 October and now capable of standing unsupported on my two feet (not walking). I'm still admitted at the Ashwinii Hospital of Mumbai.

In the coming days I can be discharged in a wheelchair, begin lengthening and continue physiotheraphy to get strength and flexibility back. It will be back at my hotel in Bandra Court or at an apartment in Mahim if I can find one. The latter would be better as it is closer to the Hospital.

The day before the operation I met representatives of the importers of the PRECICE nails at the hospital: Maxi who is the rep in Mumbai and Chris who has come over from the headquarters of PRECICE in the USA. Dr Shah prepared me that the limit of my lengthening may be 5cm due to my prehistory of a lengthening on the tibias. 8cm will be the maximum and judgment of where to  stop will be the matter of forestalling subluxation of the knee. Chris was at the operation, and I heard him giving some advice about positioning the nails. It was 5 hours.

The costs have been $USD15000 for the surgery including inpatient care and INR50000 for postsurgical consumables (injections, medicines, IV infusions, tests and xrays and measurements). 1USD = 64.70INR. Outpatient visits from a physiotherapist will be 500INR each. Meals at the hospital are not covered in the aforesaid.

The doctors working for Dr Shah speak, read and understand English capably although the maids and ward staff do not. They converse in Hindi and Marathi, the dialect of Mumbai. There is plenty of advertising in the street presented in English and there are local English language TV channels.

Trivia:
* the hospital is small takes up the ground floor of an apartment building. Nurse(s) are onsite 24hrs/day when patients are admitted. The doctors attend at other locations, one of which is Shivaji Park.
* Dr Shah's wife (Monica) is an MD radiologist who works at the hospital and other locations. I hadn't detected that from his website. There are signs up in his waiting room reminding that requesting sex determination of the foetus (by sonogram, ultrasound) is prohibited
* Nonvegetarian meals will not be brought into the hospital. Dr Shah is Jain.
* Across the street is a Hindu temple to  aladevi that has been sited there for 500 years. One or two cows are always tied up outside. Dr Shah has talked to me about the special and therapeutic qualities of the cow.
* Dr attends to his patients very well dress and completely barefoot!