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[Madmax_01]

Hey people,

I am a male, in my early 20's, living in central Europe and I am considering LL for about 3 years now. I have achieved many things in my life, but I could never overcome the height issue. I am now measuring 1,62 in the morning (average height in my region: 1,79 male; 1,67 female).
I always tried to overcome this mental dilemma, and sometimes, I temporarily did, but it always haunted me back. Since I am not in puberty anymore - so it is not a phase or something like that - I don't think that I will overcome it any way soon.
There would be a lot to explain in this post, but I do not want to go in detail too much and bore you folks, so I will cut to the chase, just to give you a few hard facts on my (hopefully) future plan.

(target) Doctor: Dr. Guichet
(target) limb: femur
When?: This summer, 2016
Where?: Milano
Desired gain: 8-10 cm
Body: wide shoulders, inverted triangular body shape, approx. 65 kg, mesomorph; not an athlete
Desired recovery: 100 % 

I know that my desired gain in height is not very realistic, but I think that I have quite short femurs, so maybe it could work. Additionally, I found a few examples - like leechlet - who have passed the 8 cm line, so it might work.

The reason, why I choose this forum is, because I have the feeling that sensible and rational people are contributing here. So, I am absolutely OK, if you give me feedback on my plan. 

[Medium Drink Of Water]

It sounds like a good plan.  If your goal of 8cm is too much for your body to handle, you can always stop when you reach a lesser length.

[Alittletooshort]

You chose one of the best doctors for your plan, I don't think however that you'll get back to 100% when it comes to your sportive activities.
8-10cm's is just too much to not have any effects on your biomechanics.

[Madmax_01]

Thank you for your responses.

(...) I don't think however that you'll get back to 100% when it comes to your sportive activities.
8-10cm's is just too much to not have any effects on your biomechanics.

I am neither a professional athlete nor do I participate in a hobby sports team, so my life would not be affected if I could not become a professional soccer player f.e.
The only sport I do, is hitting the gym. A while ago, I was considering doing boxing just for fun. Maybe that could become a problem.

You said that I could not get back 100% when it comes to my sportive activities but do you think could I get back 100% of my "physiological" fitness without any competitive background?

(f.e. walking, running, sprinting, bending hip, reaching toes, flipping back my leg, bending leg etc. etc.)

Ad Dr. Guichet: I often read good things about Dr. Paley and Dr. Betz as well. Do you think is there any doctor that can compete with Guichet when it comes to recovery time and/or recovery level?

[Alittletooshort]

Thank you for your responses.

I am neither a professional athlete nor do I participate in a hobby sports team, so my life would not be affected if I could not become a professional soccer player f.e.
The only sport I do, is hitting the gym. A while ago, I was considering doing boxing just for fun. Maybe that could become a problem.

You said that I could not get back 100% when it comes to my sportive activities but do you think could I get back 100% of my "physiological" fitness without any competitive background?

(f.e. walking, running, sprinting, bending hip, reaching toes, flipping back my leg, bending leg etc. etc.)

Ad Dr. Guichet: I often read good things about Dr. Paley and Dr. Betz as well. Do you think is there any doctor that can compete with Guichet when it comes to recovery time and/or recovery level?

I can't tell you which of them is the best, I'd chose Dr. Guichet If I had to make a choice though.
I personally haven't done LL yet, but an orthopaedic who performs these surgeries told me that a complete recovery is unrealistic. Your running speed and endurance might suffer from this, as well as the ability to perform quick movements.
Concerning the gym, the only things that will defenitely get worse is your squat and leg press performance (due to a less effective power transmission), this shoudln't be too big of a deal I guess.
Your daily activities should not be affected too much after you have recovered.
Just read some diaries to get an idea of what is ahead of you.

[goldenegg]

8cm is not so unrealistic, considering the average of Dr. G's patients is 7cm.  I did 8cm with him. I think beyond 8 may be a stretch and depends on how your body reacts once you actually start lengthening. Also make sure you have plenty of time for recovery.  You're on the younger side too which is a plus.

I would not go in with the expectation of 100% recovery of running and sprinting because you might be disappointed.  Everything else you listed I think should be ok.  Personally, I never considered Betz. Be sure to read up as much as you can on any doctor you're considering.

[Penguinn]

Being 162cms in Europe must be hard mate. Dr. Guichet is well renowned and 8cms is a realistic gain, albeit a little ambitious. Like MDOW said, you could always stop at 6 or 7 if 8 is too much to handle for your body.

[PatientZero]

Hey man, 100% recovery is not possible because you're altering your biomechanical ratios to an unnatural level. That and the stretching of muscles and tendons at 8cm is going to take the explosiveness and agility out of your legs.

I also want to note that most doctors are overly enthusiastic about the recovery time.

Guichet has one of the fastest programs, but you should be realistic about what 8cm does to your body--you will need a lot of time to heal.

A friend of mine who did 9cm with Betzbone took a year and a half before his gait was normal enough to go back to work. Another who did 7.5cm with Betz took 3.5 years before his running was close to his pre-op level.

Since you are a younger guy undergoing Guichet's regimen, hopefully you will regain functions faster than my buds.

[Madmax_01]

That is a very interesting aspect you are mentioning here. I am a full time student, and my time therefore is limited or has to be managed very well to get the best out of it. My semester ends at the begin of June, though I would have my annualy exam at the end of june, I would arrange it for the end of September. So basically, I would have about 17 to 18 weeks maximum for the whole procedure (operation, lenghtening, consultation, (recovery)). Do you think that is realistic? (I do understand that after this time period, my bone won't be fully healed, but do you think I could walk without crutches, and would anybody notice a difference in my physique except my gained height -> weird walking, etc.)

Another important question for me is, if I could stand long hours in the fall semester of 2016, because I have lab classes where I have to stand 3-4 hours on average. Could that be an issue?

Being 162cms in Europe must be hard mate. Dr. Guichet is well renowned and 8cms is a realistic gain, albeit a little ambitious. Like MDOW said, you could always stop at 6 or 7 if 8 is too much to handle for your body.

You are absolutely right, brother. It is so astonishing to observe: When I travel to Istanbul for example (my grandparents live there), my confidence rises tremendously. It is unbelievable.

[Tallexpectations]

You need more time

[programdude]

If running or sports are important, proceed with caution. I do think I am slowly getting to the point of running ok, but there is a chance you won't recover it or it will take a very very long time.

If sports arrant important to you and money isn't too tight I do think the operation is a good decision for those with severe neurosis in most cases.

[Deads]

If running or sports are important, proceed with caution. I do think I am slowly getting to the point of running ok, but there is a chance you won't recover it or it will take a very very long time.

If sports arrant important to you and money isn't too tight I do think the operation is a good decision for those with severe neurosis in most cases.

Programdude; you're into lifting weights. Is squatting/leg press possible early on? How heavy have you been lifting (of your maximum percentage)?

[programdude]

The answer is that you'll have the strength and ability to leg press etc. But not the biomechanics to squat.

The other answer is I don't recommend this after my experience with my stress fracture.

[Deads]

The answer is that you'll have the strength and ability to leg press etc. But not the biomechanics to squat.

The other answer is I don't recommend this after my experience with my stress fracture.

You don't reccomended squatting or leg press ever?

I'm lengthening 4.5-5 on my fib and 3 on my tib.. So my bio mechanics won't be too different from what they already are (if you're referring to the leg proportions between fib and tib)

[theuprising]

You don't reccomended squatting or leg press ever?

I'm lengthening 4.5-5 on my fib and 3 on my tib.. So my bio mechanics won't be too different from what they already are (if you're referring to the leg proportions between fib and tib)

It's tibia and femur deads, fib refers to fibula around these parts.

[Deads]

It's tibia and femur deads, fib refers to fibula around these parts.

Haha, I know..

[Medium Drink Of Water]

The answer is that you'll have the strength and ability to leg press etc. But not the biomechanics to squat.

The other answer is I don't recommend this after my experience with my stress fracture.

What is the biomechanical issue for you with squatting?

[Deads]

What is the biomechanical issue for you with squatting?

Imagine having a tiny tib and a long fib. It would completely change your squat. Your centre of gravity, would be thrown off after 8cm on the fib... Tibia lengthening isn't an issue. But the length of your fibia in relation to your tibia determines your centre of gravity when squatting.

[programdude]

I don't recommend those exercises until your bones are rock solid. I had the strength to do them easily but given what happened to my left leg, better safe than sorry.

[Deads]

I don't recommend those exercises until your bones are rock solid. I had the strength to do them easily but given what happened to my left leg, better safe than sorry.

Yeah true.. How much extra time would you have given yourself if you could go back and do it again?

Were you just doing light weights? How hard were you pushing yourself?

[Madmax_01]

You need more time

How much should I take in account?

[programdude]

Yeah true.. How much extra time would you have given yourself if you could go back and do it again?

Were you just doing light weights? How hard were you pushing yourself?

My lifting had nothing to do with the break. Any lifting was pretty much done when the rods were still in.

I'd say you can work out once your rods are ready for removal but they are still in, then after they are taken out be SUPER conservative unless you want to hear *snap* *crackle* *pop* in your leg. Since that happened to my left leg without even the stress of weight lifting.

[Cartman]

I know that Russian doctors which invented LL said that 5 cm is the safe limit for that, over 5-6 cm a person can experience problems with muscles and tendons, but it depends only from you physical abilities. My advice is to have a consultation with a good surgeon (Guichet seems a good choice) and to listen to his opinion about you and the possibility for you to gain 8 cm in a single surgery.

Remember: only a professional doctor which sees you in person can give to you a serious answer about your personal LL.

[Madmax_01]

I totally understand! Thank you, guys! Do you think is it possible - and I know this would probably be the best outcome by far - to walk normally after 4 months of the surgery/"regain" your gait (considering a gain of 7 - 8 cm in the femurs) ?

[goldenegg]

I totally understand! Thank you, guys! Do you think is it possible - and I know this would probably be the best outcome by far - to walk normally after 4 months of the surgery/"regain" your gait (considering a gain of 7 - 8 cm in the femurs) ?

It's possible if you look at shyshy's diary.  his recovery is the best I've ever read about for anyone who has done LL and prob should not be the expectation

[Madmax_01]

It's possible if you look at shyshy's diary.  his recovery is the best I've ever read about for anyone who has done LL and prob should not be the expectation

You are right, he had an amazing recovery. What really got my attention is that he prepared 7 months, and gained 40 % strenght on his legs and 30 ° on the SLR. I wish there would be something about his femur:tibia ratio.

The only thing which kind of bothers me is that you cannot find out what your healing rate might be. I am sure there is a gene that could be sequenced, that kind of determines bone healing. If you could test something like that, it would help to predict ones recovery.

[alps]

you mean 130 degrees?

and what does "40% strength" mean?

[Deads]

you mean 130 degrees?

and what does "40% strength" mean?

40% increase

[Madmax_01]

Yes, 40 % increase of strenght.

yes, 130 degrees.

By the way: What do you guys think is more important - Inseam/height-ratio or femur/tibia ratio. I just measured mine, and I am kind of worried that LL won't look that good on me.

72:162 inseam/height => 44 %
39:33 femur/tibia => 54,1 % : 45,9 %

=> 8 cm increase => (8 cm might be the absolute max.)

INSEAM: 80:170 => 47 %

FEMUR/TIBIA: 47:33 => 58,75 % : 41,25% => which is also over the famous 56:44 rule

PS: If someone knows a reliable thread on how to measure your own badboys properly, I would be very thankful 

[Alu]

huh....you and I have the exact same proportions mate.

Anyways, yes I consider 8 cm to be my max for proportion sake; which is nice since I'm going to go to 5'7 with just 8. As for the method, I'm thinking 4 + 4 CM on both Tibia and femurs.

[Madmax_01]

huh....you and I have the exact same proportions mate.

Anyways, yes I consider 8 cm to be my max for proportion sake; which is nice since I'm going to go to 5'7 with just 8. As for the method, I'm thinking 4 + 4 CM on both Tibia and femurs.

I totally would go that way. But for me the factors a) money, b) time, c) risk of tibia procedure and d) doubling general risk seem crucial.