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The vast majority

26 (43.3%)

About half

17 (28.3%)

Small amount

9 (15%)

Everyone

2 (3.3%)

They are just stupid

6 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 60

[Bander72]

A topic dicussed heavily recently has been if mental disorders are the real causes that affect many users life. Be it from low self esteem or height neurosis we have all faced this to a degree. When in your opinion does it go to far to the point that they need to forget about the surgery and focus on getting help. And what are some possible reasons that you belive shows that someone clearly has a mental issue.

[jojo]

Waw this is so hard to pinpoint...

Let me say

The whole cosmetic Industry is on the rise. It have Been for years and it Will keep on rising.

In contries like South Korea its seen as normal to do every cosmetic operation to get better jobs and partners and just be free to do what you want.

Some People would say its crazy meanwhile People pump Them self with steoroids.
And get bigger in other ways.

Some tribe people who lives in africa put rings around there necks to get longer necks and thoes People Are seen as "Nature People"
So what Can we say ?

I Think its fantastic  that the humens Can do LL. It helps Many People  And it gives me drive to know it.
I would say im pretty "normal" and im pretty Chill.

[Bander72]

Yes it is true that cultural diffrences play a part in cosmetic surgery. It is quite prevalent in korea to get as much plastic surgery as you want contrary to western nations which would see doing more than a couple as not normal.

[Body Builder]

Having plastic surgeries is one thing.
Really needing plastic surgeries to fix an aesthetic problem is another thing and that makes the difference between having a mental illness or having a real problem that you want to improve.

If someone has 30% fat he is a good candidate for a liposuction. If someone has 12% fat and wants a liposuction, he is ill.
The same happens between a 5.5 and a 6ft men who want LL. The first one can really improve his life and has real reasons to risk for LL while the second is just mentally ill as he risks to improve something that is not even a problem.
Things are that obvious for me.

[Bander72]

Having plastic surgeries is one thing.
Really needing plastic surgeries to fix an aesthetic problem is another thing and that makes the difference between having a mental illness or having a real problem that you want to improve.

If someone has 30% fat he is a good candidate for a liposuction. If someone has 12% fat and wants a liposuction, he is ill.
The same happens between a 5.5 and a 6ft men who want LL. The first one can really improve his life and has real reasons to risk for LL while the second is just mentally ill as he risks to improve something that is not even a problem.
Things are that obvious for me.

What about the ones that say that they come from a very tall family but are in that 6 foot range. Would you place them in that  category as well or do they have justification?

[jojo]

Again it relative.

Otherwise every person in india should do LL

[Body Builder]

What about the ones that say that they come from a very tall family but are in that 6 foot range. Would you place them in that  category as well or do they have justification?

Of course they don't.
What matters is society and the average in every aspect has to do with population, not with family members.

After all, if someone is 6 ft and has 2 brothers who are 6.5-6.6 why should he feel inferior to them?
They are the ankwardly tall ones, he has a perfect height.

So no, family, friends, an ex who cheated you with a 7ft guy and all these are bs.
The only reason for someone to do a cosmetic surgery is when he has a real-objective problem.
And someone who has more than average height in his country has no problem at all so he doesn't needs LL no matter what.

[6FeetSoon]

I can see why an average height guy like Luke Hemsworth might consider the procedure. He has always been overlooked (quite literally and figuratively) for movie roles, as studio execs would rather have Liam or Chris. I'm pretty confident if his last name weren't Hemsworth, the comparison wouldn't be made and he'd be evaluated on his own merits. Just playing devil's advocate here and making the argument that family ties can and do affect perception in broader society.

Of course they don't.
What matters is society and the average in every aspect has to do with population, not with family members.

After all, if someone is 6 ft and has 2 brothers who are 6.5-6.6 why should he feel inferior to them?
They are the ankwardly tall ones, he has a perfect height.

So no, family, friends, an ex who cheated you with a 7ft guy and all these are bs.
The only reason for someone to do a cosmetic surgery is when he has a real-objective problem.
And someone who has more than average height in his country has no problem at all so he doesn't needs LL no matter what.

[TIBIKE200]

I can see why an average height guy like Luke Hemsworth might consider the procedure. He has always been overlooked (quite literally and figuratively) for movie roles, as studio execs would rather have Liam or Chris. I'm pretty confident if his last name weren't Hemsworth, the comparison wouldn't be made and he'd be evaluated on his own merits. Just playing devil's advocate here and making the argument that family ties can and do affect perception in broader society.

Yet he didn't do it nor his extreme rich brothers gave him money to do it and I doubt they even mentioned it. He is a pretty happy guy posing even without lifts near his two brothers (out of which btw Liam is a pretty bad actor to be honest).

 He is happy to be average and isn't suffering from some ego problem like some here are

[6FeetSoon]

Yet he didn't do it nor his extreme rich brothers gave him money to do it and I doubt they even mentioned it. He is a pretty happy guy posing even without lifts near his two brothers (out of which btw Liam is a pretty bad actor to be honest).

 He is happy to be average and isn't suffering from some ego problem like some here are

Sure, but that's because he's got a great life. Most people on here unfortunately do not, so they pick the easiest culprit to blame... stature.
And let's be real, Liam is a horrible actor but it doesn't really matter does it? Aesthetic matters on the west coast. And Luke was actually quite good in Westworld. We'd be lying to ourselves if we don't admit the genetic disparity with his brothers hasn't held him back.

[TIBIKE200]

Sure, but that's because he's got a great life. Most people on here unfortunately do not, so they pick the easiest culprit to blame... stature.
And let's be real, Liam is a horrible actor but it doesn't really matter does it? Aesthetic matters on the west coast. And Luke was actually quite good in Westworld. We'd be lying to ourselves if we don't admit the genetic disparity with his brothers hasn't held him back.

Liam also isn't in a lot of films. There is a reason for that. Chris is a good actor as Thor.
  I am aware of the aesthetic importance of height in the film industry (especially in the US where most today's actors are nothing but dolls to musterbate to).

 He has a great life just like Chris. Liam is dating Miley Cyrus so I wouldn't call that such a great life haha

[Jack1066]

Luke is 1.8 metres according to google. There are plenty of shorter actors who are frequently picked for leading roles. His stature probably isn't the problem

EDIT: lol google says his brother Chris is 1.9 metres. There is no way, if they are standing on flat ground, he is only 4 inches shorter than his brother. He is probably around 5'8" or 5'9", in which case yes I see it is probably a problem in those kinds of movies especially. That said the spider-man actors for example have mostly been around 5'8", different character though I guess, but there are some actors who fill "heroic" roles in movies that are shorter than average (also take Kit Harington as Jon Snow in Game of Thrones for example)

Thor I guess is different because he's supposed to be Nordic. Or something like that.

[Jack1066]

P.S. I think that someone does have to have some sort of "problem" if they are desperate enough to pay a sleazy doctor (let's be honest anyone who makes money off CLL is sleazy, even the most expensive and best) so much money to break their legs.

But often you can't blame people for this problem, or so I think, but the fact is that arbitrary physical facts hold us all back in life. So it's not fair just to reduce it to a mental health issue- although for some I think it certainly is. I don't particularly want to get involved in this argument, but I question whether some of the already tall or at least solidly average people who did this would get so many benefits from it and whether it was a well thought-out decision on their part.

But I would say body image problems can't exist apart from society

[Body Builder]

I can see why an average height guy like Luke Hemsworth might consider the procedure. He has always been overlooked (quite literally and figuratively) for movie roles, as studio execs would rather have Liam or Chris. I'm pretty confident if his last name weren't Hemsworth, the comparison wouldn't be made and he'd be evaluated on his own merits. Just playing devil's advocate here and making the argument that family ties can and do affect perception in broader society.

You took an exception and wrote about a family of celebrities.
But still your example is not valid as yes, if a studio want to cast an actor to represent a superhero like Thor then they would choose the taller brother.
But if they wanted an actor to portray the average man on a drama or social movie let's say, they would choose the more average brother.

After all, almost all the greatest actors in hollywood and not only were average height or less (Pacino, De niro, Hopkins, Nicholson etc).
So, especially in cinema, the majority of best actors are average height or less.

[6FeetSoon]

You're missing the point. All i'm demonstrating is that comparison to family members is relevant. Who the fck cares about robert deniro or jack nicholson's brothers? We're talking about a trio of family members who are all in the industry and recognizable. Now, remove the celebrity status and make it 3 regular brothers from NYC. You think if the 3 brothers are 6'3, 5'9 and 6'3, that when they go out on the town, the smaller one isnt going to be called out for being so much smaller than his brothers? Of course he is. And thats the original point, if these are people you grow up with and "society" associates you with each other, then it's totally understandable if that brother feels a bit of insecurity.

You took an exception and wrote about a family of celebrities.
But still your example is not valid as yes, if a studio want to cast an actor to represent a superhero like Thor then they would choose the taller brother.
But if they wanted an actor to portray the average man on a drama or social movie let's say, they would choose the more average brother.

After all, almost all the greatest actors in hollywood and not only were average height or less (Pacino, De niro, Hopkins, Nicholson etc).
So, especially in cinema, the majority of best actors are average height or less.

[biggerdreams]

Of course they don't.
What matters is society and the average in every aspect has to do with population, not with family members.

After all, if someone is 6 ft and has 2 brothers who are 6.5-6.6 why should he feel inferior to them?
They are the ankwardly tall ones, he has a perfect height.

So no, family, friends, an ex who cheated you with a 7ft guy and all these are bs.
The only reason for someone to do a cosmetic surgery is when he has a real-objective problem.
And someone who has more than average height in his country has no problem at all so he doesn't needs LL no matter what.

What happens in the case that a 5' guy (much lower than average) does not have real-objective problems. What if he has a great career, has good friends, and is able to date pretty women? Is he not allowed to consider LL?

[Body Builder]

You're missing the point. All i'm demonstrating is that comparison to family members is relevant. Who the fck cares about robert deniro or jack nicholson's brothers? We're talking about a trio of family members who are all in the industry and recognizable. Now, remove the celebrity status and make it 3 regular brothers from NYC. You think if the 3 brothers are 6'3, 5'9 and 6'3, that when they go out on the town, the smaller one isnt going to be called out for being so much smaller than his brothers? Of course he is. And thats the original point, if these are people you grow up with and "society" associates you with each other, then it's totally understandable if that brother feels a bit of insecurity.

You talked about 5.9 which is even less than average.
What about a 6ft brother compared to 2 6.5 brothers?
The one has a great height but the other ones are ankwardly tall. Who has the problem here, the shorter one or tha tallers? Of course the seconds.
So everything has to do with the average person. If you are way taller than average it is not a benefit but a drawback.
And that has nothing to do if you have brothers as tall as dinosaurs. They have the problem, not you.

Biggerdreams, if someone is happy with his life then of course he has no reason to do LL.
But if someone differs a lot from the average person in one or more traits then it is harder to be successful and haooy in his life
A 5ft man is very hard to have successes in all the aspects of his life. The same an 100kg woman, someone with a huge nose and generally people with OBJECTIVE problems.
A more than average height man objectively has no problem with his height so it is insane to do a so hard cosmetic surgery to change it and he has a major possibility to be mentally ill, is it so hard to understand it?

[Jack1066]

One thing that I have noticed is that some tall families take a lot of pride in their height. I can imagine that the kid who gets the "short" gene (apparently a statistically 1/5 chance) might feel bad about it if their family brings it up a lot. If people are body shaming  a guy for being the "runt of the litter" I can understand how even an objectively tall guy might start to feel ashamed of his body. I grew up in a family of women and have generally been called "big", despite the fact that I'm short for a man and fairly slim, so this isn't a problem I've experienced, but I can empathise.

I remember talking to a kid on the internet who was 5'10" at 15, predicted to grow to 6'6" (late puberty and set for late growth spurts). He said that he would get LL if he didn't reach that height and his family would help him with that.

At this point I tend to agree with BodyBuilder. The neurosis has reached the point where it is not grounded in objective reality. There is the objective reality that while some women do indeed like short men, or that in some professions being short is actually a bonus, for most of us we can reap greater social rewards by being at least average height or taller. But if a guy is already taller than average, is his height really the objective problem, or is it his own insecurities, or the toxic attitudes of some other people surrounding him? I think it's the latter. That's why there's a qualitative difference.

I'm not knocking on anyone above average height who wants to do LL. It is their life after all. But this is just my feeling on the matter- the sacrifices and potential risks are probably not objectively worth it for someone who is already not likely to be considered short statured, and any negatives might well be better compensated for by therapy or moving away from toxic people who define your worth by your length of bone.

[Knik]

How stupid is this topic

[biggerdreams]

Biggerdreams, if someone is happy with his life then of course he has no reason to do LL.
But if someone differs a lot from the average person in one or more traits then it is harder to be successful and haooy in his life
A 5ft man is very hard to have successes in all the aspects of his life. The same an 100kg woman, someone with a huge nose and generally people with OBJECTIVE problems.
A more than average height man objectively has no problem with his height so it is insane to do a so hard cosmetic surgery to change it and he has a major possibility to be mentally ill, is it so hard to understand it?

So if a 5' man has a successful life he does not have objective problems? Just because he is successful in all aspects doesn't mean he is happy or has healthy self image.

My point is that there is no defining cut off height where this is acceptable or not. Yes it gets exponentially more taboo as you get taller but face it, to the outside world CLL is really taboo anyway. If you don't care what the world thinks about CLL then why should a more than average tall person care what you or I think?

[TIBIKE200]

One thing that I have noticed is that some tall families take a lot of pride in their height. I can imagine that the kid who gets the "short" gene (apparently a statistically 1/5 chance) might feel bad about it if their family brings it up a lot. If people are body shaming  a guy for being the "runt of the litter" I can understand how even an objectively tall guy might start to feel ashamed of his body. I grew up in a family of women and have generally been called "big", despite the fact that I'm short for a man and fairly slim, so this isn't a problem I've experienced, but I can empathise.

I remember talking to a kid on the internet who was 5'10" at 15, predicted to grow to 6'6" (late puberty and set for late growth spurts). He said that he would get LL if he didn't reach that height and his family would help him with that.

At this point I tend to agree with BodyBuilder. The neurosis has reached the point where it is not grounded in objective reality. There is the objective reality that while some women do indeed like short men, or that in some professions being short is actually a bonus, for most of us we can reap greater social rewards by being at least average height or taller. But if a guy is already taller than average, is his height really the objective problem, or is it his own insecurities, or the toxic attitudes of some other people surrounding him? I think it's the latter. That's why there's a qualitative difference.

I'm not knocking on anyone above average height who wants to do LL. It is their life after all. But this is just my feeling on the matter- the sacrifices and potential risks are probably not objectively worth it for someone who is already not likely to be considered short statured, and any negatives might well be better compensated for by therapy or moving away from toxic people who define your worth by your length of bone.

 The social rewards of becoming taller than average from average are exagerrated here. It's people who are fixated with height who think that height is so important. It's not once you are average

[Jack1066]

I agree. Height is not an absolute in itself and is more about aesthetics. It is better to look aesthetically tall and not noticeably tall while maintaining good proportions. I think there's truth in the oft-repeated 5'10"-6'2" range being ideal, maybe that'll bump up an inch or so in the future if people carry on growing. But being shorter than average definitely has bigger and bigger repercussions the shorter you get.

[TIBIKE200]

I agree. Height is not an absolute in itself and is more about aesthetics. It is better to look aesthetically tall and not noticeably tall while maintaining good proportions. I think there's truth in the oft-repeated 5'10"-6'2" range being ideal, maybe that'll bump up an inch or so in the future if people carry on growing. But being shorter than average definitely has bigger and bigger repercussions the shorter you get.

My 5'7 or your 5'8 aren't that bad. Even at 5'6 you can still be good. It starts to get really bad once you are in the average height for a woman.
 
  Actually from my personal observation the "best" heights are in the 175-180cm range as simply because most guys are in that height range. I am talking about Italy, France and Israel here as I lived in all those areas.
  Also, Having an AirBnB I have had couples from all over europe and the world and only young couples and usually most guys are 175-180cm tall with a few taller guys

[Jack1066]

There are various height milestones. "Shorter than the average man" is OK (not great, but OK, like 5 on a 1-10 scale) so long as you are still "man height" and not "woman height" (apologies to anyone who is offended by these terms, I don't like them much either).

When you are shorter than the average woman, or the same height, you begin to get a load of microaggressions off people and general bull .

[TIBIKE200]

There are various height milestones. "Shorter than the average man" is OK (not great, but OK, like 5 on a 1-10 scale) so long as you are still "man height" and not "woman height" (apologies to anyone who is offended by these terms, I don't like them much either).

When you are shorter than the average woman, or the same height, you begin to get a load of microaggressions off people and general bullcrap.

 It's not great and that's why I think it's ok to want to change it. I don't think it's ok (mentally speaking) to want to change your height if you are average or a little above that. I don't judge anyone who does it as it's their right to do what they want with their body but still, psicologically speaking, something else is at play here if an average height man (or even a 1-2cm shorter than that) suffers so much he is willing to risk his walking to go through such a thing.
  And sadly, this forum has become like R/short with people basically speaking bull  about how much height is important in regards to dating or respect from men or whatever. And even more ridiculus is the fact it's coming from people your height or taller.
  I don't mean to say that height isn't important in regards to dating (in all other aspects it means absolutly nothing) but what I mean is that I find it extremely hard to believe that a 5'7 or a 5'8 guy has an extremely hard time to get dates at those heights

[biggerdreams]

It's not great and that's why I think it's ok to want to change it. I don't think it's ok (mentally speaking) to want to change your height if you are average or a little above that. I don't judge anyone who does it as it's their right to do what they want with their body but still, psicologically speaking, something else is at play here if an average height man (or even a 1-2cm shorter than that) suffers so much he is willing to risk his walking to go through such a thing.
  And sadly, this forum has become like R/short with people basically speaking bullcrap about how much height is important in regards to dating or respect from men or whatever. And even more ridiculus is the fact it's coming from people your height or taller.
  I don't mean to say that height isn't important in regards to dating (in all other aspects it means absolutly nothing) but what I mean is that I find it extremely hard to believe that a 5'7 or a 5'8 guy has an extremely hard time to get dates at those heights

There are guys at all heights that have problems getting girls. If that's the reason why you want LL, you shouldn't consider it no matter how tall or short you are. There is no cut off height that makes LL wrong or right. A below average height man that wants LL can be just as mentally unstable as a tall guy that wants it. It's too hard to gauge that sitting behind a computer screen.

[Body Builder]

There are guys at all heights that have problems getting girls. If that's the reason why you want LL, you shouldn't consider it no matter how tall or short you are. There is no cut off height that makes LL wrong or right. A below average height man that wants LL can be just as mentally unstable as a tall guy that wants it. It's too hard to gauge that sitting behind a computer screen.

A taller than average man who wants to do LL is much more possible to be mentally unstable than a short man.
The thing that someone wants to break his legs to fix a problem that doesn't exist make he almost for sure mentally unstable. A short man who does LL to fix an existing problem (lack of height) has of course much more possibilities to be realistic and wise and want to improve something that can't be fixed otherwise.

An anorexic girl who does diet in almost for sure unstable.
An obese girl who does diet is probably sensible and logical.
The same happens with LL and initial height. People who don't want to admit that there is a borded where LL is justified or not are usually the tall ones who are way out of this borded. In other word, the unstable ones.

[biggerdreams]

A taller than average man who wants to do LL is much more possible to be mentally unstable than a short man.
The thing that someone wants to break his legs to fix a problem that doesn't exist make he almost for sure mentally unstable. A short man who does LL to fix an existing problem (lack of height) has of course much more possibilities to be realistic and wise and want to improve something that can't be fixed otherwise.

An anorexic girl who does diet in almost for sure unstable.
An obese girl who does diet is probably sensible and logical.
The same happens with LL and initial height. People who don't want to admit that there is a borded where LL is justified or not are usually the tall ones who are way out of this borded. In other word, the unstable ones.

But you just told Yves in the other topic that he should definitely go get LL and he is 5'8". That is average height. We have to move beyond personal preference and personal experience before we are constantly dictating what is wrong or right or what is mentally fit or unfit when we are far from qualified to diagnose it.

[Jack1066]

As I said before, the difference between a problem that is subjective and situationally based and a more or less objective reality is very different. They are both problems with different solutions. The first is therapy, the second is LL. I'm not implying that many of the short guys on here shouldn't go for therapy too...

LL is a real waste and a big mistake if your problems actually are just in your head.

There are guys at all heights that have problems getting girls. If that's the reason why you want LL, you shouldn't consider it no matter how tall or short you are. There is no cut off height that makes LL wrong or right. A below average height man that wants LL can be just as mentally unstable as a tall guy that wants it. It's too hard to gauge that sitting behind a computer screen.

[Body Builder]

But you just told Yves in the other topic that he should definitely go get LL and he is 5'8". That is average height. We have to move beyond personal preference and personal experience before we are constantly dictating what is wrong or right or what is mentally fit or unfit when we are far from qualified to diagnose it.

I think that Yves is from Europe. 5.8 is not average in eu, especially in my country it is 2.5 inches less.
So no, if someone is 2.5 inches less than average has reasons to do LL and is not considered completely average in no way.
When I say that LL is not suitable for more than average height men I mean for men that have the exactly average height of men in their country, not 2-3 inches less which is generally considered as almost average.

[6FeetSoon]

LL is a real waste and a big mistake if your problems actually are just in your head.

Problems and their respective solutions are all debatable. Rozbruch's entire stature lengthening evaluation process is based on the premise that if he thinks LL can address the problems that are "in your head", then you're a candidate he would consider for the program.

But the two of you can sit down and discuss the merits of all this over a NY pizza slice in the near future lol