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Author Topic: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real  (Read 1418 times)

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Bruce Wayne

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The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was an American non-profit advocacy group for adults of short stature. The organization clearly defined "short stature" to be men 170 cm (5'7") or below and women 157.5 cm (5'2") or below in height.[1] The group advocated on behalf of short people and hoped to foster greater acceptance of short people within society. NOSSA was opposed to the prejudice known as heightism. The group defined heightism as, "a prejudiced attitude about human height that often results in discrimination. It is based on the belief that short stature is an inferior trait and therefore undesirable."[2] The organization ran a series of public education programs, sponsored height-related research, acted as a media "watch-dog" group, provided legal assistance for those affected by heightism, hosted online discussion groups, and invited members to gather once a year for an annual convention. NOSSA ended in early 2013 due to lack of support.

HGH controversy
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NOSSA announced its opposition to the use of human growth hormone for short, but otherwise healthy, children. The organization believes being short isn't a problem; the real difficulties lies in the social bias against short people. In part to define the organization's position on the matter, NOSSA representative and author Ellen Frankel LCSW stated, "What we need is education for those who discriminate against short people, not the genetic engineering of the victims of that prejudice."[6] Frankel states, "The growth hormone deficient child suffers from an underlying medical problem that affects the body's health in different ways. The non-growth-hormone-deficient child has no underlying medical problem. They simply present as a variation on the norm with regard to height. The decision to medically intervene on the healthy child's stature is socially based due to height discrimination and prejudice."[7]

CLL
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NOSSA claims to receive hundreds of e-mails each year from people requesting more information on cosmetic leg lengthening. The group actively discourages short statured people from undergoing leg lengthening solely for cosmetic reasons. The group encourages anyone who is seriously considering the surgery to research the procedure and surgeon thoroughly before undergoing the procedure. NOSSA encourages people to accept and love themselves as they are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Organization_of_Short_Statured_Adults
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ghkid2019

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Just like the dwarfism community opposes CLL and wants to force little people to continue suffering and simply "accept" their height despite ways to change it.

And that HGH mentality... Absolutely ridiculous

Gate keeping beneficial surgeries and medicine. Disgusting

Though As for their message of heightism.. I approve this 👍
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a

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I think we all should collect some money and give it to Bruce Wayne, he really needs the surgery more than anyone including me.
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drxboom

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Just like the dwarfism community opposes CLL and wants to force little people to continue suffering and simply "accept" their height despite ways to change it.

And that HGH mentality... Absolutely ridiculous

Gate keeping beneficial surgeries and medicine. Disgusting

Though As for their message of heightism.. I approve this 👍

They say what matters is inner beauty, but they judge people according to physique
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NotSoBigBadBruin

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Just like the dwarfism community opposes CLL and wants to force little people to continue suffering and simply "accept" their height despite ways to change it.

It wouldn’t make sense if they were encouraging people to do CLL, would it? As if BLM supporters were saying, “Skin color shouldn’t matter! But hey, if you’ve got the money, start looking into skin-bleaching products.”
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IwannaBeTaller

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Just like the dwarfism community opposes CLL and wants to force little people to continue suffering and simply "accept" their height despite ways to change it.

And that HGH mentality... Absolutely ridiculous

Gate keeping beneficial surgeries and medicine. Disgusting

Though As for their message of heightism.. I approve this 👍

Is it ridiculous, really? Is it not just logically consistent? Assumin that heightism exists and you think LL is a solution, what would be the end game? Everyone under 5'7'' just getting LL, which would raise the average height and just make those at 5'7'' shorter compared to the average (and many of those getting LL would still be short, only with reduced mobility), effectively just shifting the problem around?

I think we all should collect some money and give it to Bruce Wayne, he really needs the surgery more than anyone including me.

Give him brain surgery too, so he'll irrevocably forget he "slept 0-2 hours" during his puberty. I can't read that sh*t anymore.
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ghkid2019

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It wouldn’t make sense if they were encouraging people to do CLL, would it? As if BLM supporters were saying, “Skin color shouldn’t matter! But hey, if you’ve got the money, start looking into skin-bleaching products.”

Oh that's not the case. They actively reject dwarves and spout hate on those who do CLL. You can be impartial and support a person thru their journey. Just like every parent of an CLL patient will not approve of the surgery, but will fully support and love the patient if they do decide to do it
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ghkid2019

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Is it ridiculous, really? Is it not just logically consistent? Assumin that heightism exists and you think LL is a solution, what would be the end game? Everyone under 5'7'' just getting LL, which would raise the average height and just make those at 5'7'' shorter compared to the average (and many of those getting LL would still be short, only with reduced mobility), effectively just shifting the problem around?

Give him brain surgery too, so he'll irrevocably forget he "slept 0-2 hours" during his puberty. I can't read that sh*t anymore.

HGH given to kids is literally the best possible thing you can do. It's a low effort way to solve your kids stature problems without doing anything crazy like LL

Yeah but we're talking individuals. If someone, right now, on August 29 2020, hates their height, and wants to do LL, and is dealing with the anecdotal consequences of their short stature, there's really no point in telling em to deal with it and say "oh love yaself even tho you've tried therapy and meds and everything"
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ghkid2019

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Lol I'm tired of reading that shiet too. It's more of a meme at this point, I was too angry at it but now I just observe
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O_99

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Is it ridiculous, really? Is it not just logically consistent? Assumin that heightism exists and you think LL is a solution, what would be the end game? Everyone under 5'7'' just getting LL, which would raise the average height and just make those at 5'7'' shorter compared to the average (and many of those getting LL would still be short, only with reduced mobility), effectively just shifting the problem around?

+1
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ghkid2019

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We can't actively fight "heightism" because what alot of people connect heightism with is female preferences.. how u gonna convince a woman to like something they biologically unattracted to.. how you gonna convince a man to be empathetic and go for a fat girl or ugly af girl out of pity.. you can't

It bullshiet that people call dating preferences heightism. U like whatchu want. Stop being a babee abt people having their own choices lul

Not to mention alot of real LL people have height neurosis from basically lack of confidence which isn't fundamentally caused by heightism. They legit can just be unhappy about themselves so solving heightism doesn't change the fact that they look at the mirror and hate it
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Bruce Wayne

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We can't actively fight "heightism" because what alot of people connect heightism with is female preferences.. how u gonna convince a woman to like something they biologically unattracted to.. how you gonna convince a man to be empathetic and go for a fat girl or ugly af girl out of pity.. you can't

It bullshiet that people call dating preferences heightism. U like whatchu want. Stop being a babee abt people having their own choices lul


Not to mention alot of real LL people have height neurosis from basically lack of confidence which isn't fundamentally caused by heightism. They legit can just be unhappy about themselves so solving heightism doesn't change the fact that they look at the mirror and hate it

For the first time, you got something right, kid.
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ghkid2019

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'ppreciate it Batman.
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IwannaBeTaller

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We can't actively fight "heightism" because what alot of people connect heightism with is female preferences.. how u gonna convince a woman to like something they biologically unattracted to.. how you gonna convince a man to be empathetic and go for a fat girl or ugly af girl out of pity.. you can't

It bullshiet that people call dating preferences heightism. U like whatchu want. Stop being a babee abt people having their own choices lul

Not to mention alot of real LL people have height neurosis from basically lack of confidence which isn't fundamentally caused by heightism. They legit can just be unhappy about themselves so solving heightism doesn't change the fact that they look at the mirror and hate it

The concept of discrimination, no matter if it's about race or body traits (height, weight, build, looks, etc.) has a lot more meaning than just "dating preferences". It could be about promotion opportunities, being able to become a well-respected member of a community, to be taken seriously, to enter certain fields and professions that have been previously barred. You can experience discrimination in pretty much every aspect of dealing with other humans beings.

Even if it's about things like dating and sxxal attraction, the issue is a lot more complex than just people having preferences for biological reasons. Anthropologists and social scientists smarter than us are still in disagreement on which behaviours are rooted in biology and which in environment. The socialization of humans begins from the moment they're born and permeates your entire lifetime. Much of what we call "female preferences" in dating might have roots in sociocultural stereotypes and traits associated with shorter guys. This is an observation commonly made among discussions around height on the internet too, with some people saying the US is a worse place for short guys than Europe because American women are more height-obsessed, or that shorter guys are still often seen as masculine and attractive in places like Spain or South America, for example.

So whether you support the idea of an organization for short statured adults or not (I personally wouldn't, because I believe it would just isolate shorter guys from the idea of "normal men" further), their goal of fighting against heightism is certainly a valid one. The methods can be questioned though.
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Bruce Wayne

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The concept of discrimination, no matter if it's about race or body traits (height, weight, build, looks, etc.) has a lot more meaning than just "dating preferences". It could be about promotion opportunities, being able to become a well-respected member of a community, to be taken seriously, to enter certain fields and professions that have been previously barred. You can experience discrimination in pretty much every aspect of dealing with other humans beings.

The majority of us don't have these problems.

Even if it's about things like dating and sxxal attraction, the issue is a lot more complex than just people having preferences for biological reasons. Anthropologists and social scientists smarter than us are still in disagreement on which behaviours are rooted in biology and which in environment. The socialization of humans begins from the moment they're born and permeates your entire lifetime. Much of what we call "female preferences" in dating might have roots in sociocultural stereotypes and traits associated with shorter guys. This is an observation commonly made among discussions around height on the internet too, with some people saying the US is a worse place for short guys than Europe because American women are more height-obsessed, or that shorter guys are still often seen as masculine and attractive in places like Spain or South America, for example.

The media might have influenced preferences a little bit. But I believe it's mostly biological reasons.

In 60s/70s, black guys weren't really potrayed well, but there were always biological attractions for them. I know this because I watch older films and I watched guys like Jim Brown and Sidney Poitier, also the boxer Ken Norton. And more modern day like Denzel Washington, Idris Elba.

Still, one thing they have all in common, is tall haha

The reason is actually very simple. The raw strength conveyed by tall stature.

Men are supposed to be the protector of their family.

However, being short as a male does in fact mean that you are inherently less dominant, less capable of protecting yourself and your family due to your shorter reach and lighter weight, provided that everything else is equal.

And this will not change in our lifetime, probably not in a million year.
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ghkid2019

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I wonder how many people who actually have done LL did it cuz "muh boss no gimme raise or make mee the manager oh noes", in other words, use this crippling surgery   to get a job or climb the corporate ladder

Based on all the diaries I've read, first of all you need to be at least a little successful to pay for such a huge surgery- so at that point you basically have beat the odds eh? "Short man saves tens of thousands of dollars". Short people clearly can fuccking earn and save money lol, don't try to act like we anywhere near as oppressed as being a discriminated minority group is in terms of employment

Vast majority of people who do this shiet legit either want:
-Improved opposite sxx relations and attractiveness
- fix their own negative self body image, remove neurosis..
-get public to view them as a "man" instead of having a label of a  "short man"

The ones who really feel limited in their career  by their fukking height honestly don't have the drive and won't be the ones getting enough money to afford this leg breaking surgery anyways.

No one who actually did this surgery is like "oh muh height make me manager no likey me 😥, now imma break my leggs so I can b promoted, cuz u must be 5'9 to advance the ladders!!1!!1!1"

Fighting heightism is valid, but you better be geared towards the route of fighting    like height requirements in china, and legitimate heightism versus trying to change what people think of short people in a romantic or opinionated field like who the employer or boss deems as hot or ugly. Cuz there's no point lol, this is called being human. The attractive people will be better treated than the ugly people. Don't act like you don't do the same, there's 99% chance you also treat good looking people better than ugly
« Last Edit: August 30, 2020, 02:12:27 AM by ghkid2019 »
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ZUCC420

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Biology precedes culture, which precedes ideology. Biology > Culture > Ideology. Making an analogy to computer system, it'll be like Hardware > Operating system > Software. Fighting heightism is like trying to run a 64 bit software on a 32 bit CPU (Hardware) which is basically an exercise in futility. It's a lost cause gentlemen, just raise awareness for a solution to grow taller instead.
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Bruce Wayne

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2020, 01:44:43 PM »

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carpetendro

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2020, 08:47:13 AM »

I wonder how many people who actually have done LL did it cuz "muh boss no gimme raise or make mee the manager oh noes", in other words, use this crippling surgery   to get a job or climb the corporate ladder

Based on all the diaries I've read, first of all you need to be at least a little successful to pay for such a huge surgery- so at that point you basically have beat the odds eh? "Short man saves tens of thousands of dollars". Short people clearly can fuccking earn and save money lol, don't try to act like we anywhere near as oppressed as being a discriminated minority group is in terms of employment

Vast majority of people who do this shiet legit either want:
-Improved opposite sxx relations and attractiveness
- fix their own negative self body image, remove neurosis..
-get public to view them as a "man" instead of having a label of a  "short man"

The ones who really feel limited in their career  by their fukking height honestly don't have the drive and won't be the ones getting enough money to afford this leg breaking surgery anyways.

No one who actually did this surgery is like "oh muh height make me manager no likey me 😥, now imma break my leggs so I can b promoted, cuz u must be 5'9 to advance the ladders!!1!!1!1"

Fighting heightism is valid, but you better be geared towards the route of fighting    like height requirements in china, and legitimate heightism versus trying to change what people think of short people in a romantic or opinionated field like who the employer or boss deems as hot or ugly. Cuz there's no point lol, this is called being human. The attractive people will be better treated than the ugly people. Don't act like you don't do the same, there's 99% chance you also treat good looking people better than ugly


If you can understand this:


Vast majority of people who do this shiet legit either want:
-Improved opposite sxx relations and attractiveness
- fix their own negative self body image, remove neurosis..
-get public to view them as a "man" instead of having a label of a  "short man"


then you can understand that wanting to get a raise and equal job opportunities are part of the very thing you're talking about. I don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx. If you're less attractive, treated with less respect by people in general then you bet that this is going to affect your self image and career because guess what, your bosses and people who make decisions to promote you are humans too. Sure that short men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.
You are delusional if you think you're somehow detached from worldly problems of being short and that your reason for wanting LL is somehow more legitimate. "I'm not like you short losers who want LL because of discrimination! I want LL because uhhh muh self image!"
We don't live in a vacuum. There is a reason why short people have a negative self image and those beliefs aren't born out of thin air. It's because you understand on some fundamental level that being short is considered bad, negative in our modern society.
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Bruce Wayne

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2020, 09:19:19 AM »

I don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx.

The thing is we don't feel like being limited in our career.

Sure that short men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.

Nothing to do with being outliers.

Short men can have a great career because height is irrelevant in certain careers in the first place.

Short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models but never because these models find the short men physically attractive but rather just want to take advantage of these short men in some way.
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O_99

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2020, 10:18:24 AM »


If you can understand this:


Vast majority of people who do this shiet legit either want:
-Improved opposite sxx relations and attractiveness (1)
- fix their own negative self body image, remove neurosis.. (2)
-get public to view them as a "man" instead of having a label of a  "short man (3)

The second 'point' you 'quoted' in this case is caused by 1 and 3. Like unequal job opportunities that you mention below, lower self esteem, etc.

then you can understand that wanting to get a raise and equal job opportunities are part of the very thing you're talking about. I don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx.

Maybe because they don't care about the opposite s*x. Or any s*x at all, and don't give a damn anymore.
So it can be 'different'. It varies from individual to individual.

Sure that short men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.

You inserted the concept of statistical outliers, having already a very small and 'weird' statistical sample ("short men who date gorgeous models"), that you know very little about.
Comparing short men in general with short men that date (super)models is futile.
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carpetendro

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2020, 10:38:14 AM »

The thing is we don't feel like being limited in our career.

Nothing to do with being outliers.

Short men can have a great career because height is irrelevant in certain careers in the first place.

Short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models but never because these models find the short men physically attractive but rather just want to take advantage of these short men in some way.

YOU don't feel like it limits your career. You're speaking from a personal perspective. Statistically speaking, you earn $800 more every inch taller you are. Anyone with common sense would tell you that height of course matter even in the workplace because what is the workplace? It's just a place where humans socialize to work for/towards something. Yes there are some fields where knowledge and expertise are more important but two people of the same skill but different heights can earn more depending on who is taller. Even if you are more qualified for a job, you could get passed over for someone who is less qualified because he is taller. Not only do you have to get your knowledge down to a T but you also have to work harder to get the same opportunity.

 Wanting to be taller for your career is a more legitimate concern because a job is supposed to be based on your merit whereas nobody owes you to be attracted to you.

The second 'point' you 'quoted' in this case is caused by 1 and 3. Like unequal job opportunities that you mention below, lower self esteem, etc.

Maybe because they don't care about the opposite s*x. Or any s*x at all, and don't give a damn anymore.
So it can be 'different'. It varies from individual to individual.

You inserted the concept of statistical outliers, having already a very small and 'weird' statistical sample ("short men who date gorgeous models"), that you know very little about.
Comparing short men in general with short men that date (super)models is futile.

What is the point of your post. It seems like you agree with me. Yes there are outliers where short men can succeed despite being short doesn't change the fact that being short makes it harder for you. That's exactly my point.
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O_99

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2020, 10:42:51 AM »

What is the point of your post. It seems like you agree with me. Yes there are outliers where short men can succeed despite being short doesn't change the fact that being short makes it harder for you. That's exactly my point.

What is the point of YOUR post.
Working enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand for everyone.
Where exactly I agree with you? You compare things that shouldn't really be compared, and you project your opinions as what's going on in reality.
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Bruce Wayne

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2020, 10:49:47 AM »

YOU don't feel like it limits your career. You're speaking from a personal perspective. Statistically speaking, you earn $800 more every inch taller you are. Anyone with common sense would tell you that height of course matter even in the workplace because what is the workplace? It's just a place where humans socialize to work for/towards something. Yes there are some fields where knowledge and expertise are more important but two people of the same skill but different heights can earn more depending on who is taller. Wanting to be taller for your career is a more legitimate concern because a job is supposed to be based on your merit whereas nobody owes you to be attracted to you.

What is the point of your post. It seems like you agree with me. Yes there are outliers where short men can succeed despite being short doesn't change the fact that being short makes it harder for you. That's exactly my point.

That's right I am speaking for personal experience. It seems that no many people here did the surgery to get promoted in the workplace  either.

What would make more sense is, supposed I got good looks, my height can hinder me from being a male model/actor/flight attendant. Then I do the surgery to increase my height. If you do the surgery so that you can get promoted in the workplace, that'd be a joke.

I'm sure if someone did the survey, we'd find that good-looking people earn more money compared to bad-looking people. There are female Instagram models who make money just by being attractive alone. Would you like to complain about that?

In the end good-looking people in general will always have an advantage in every aspect in life.
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carpetendro

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2020, 11:03:04 AM »

What is the point of YOUR post.
Working enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand.
Where exactly I agree with you? You compare things uncomparable, and you project your opinions as what's going on in reality.

What do you disagree with what I said?

When you're considered less attractive to the opposite sxx and treated with less respect you can expect that person to have a lower self esteem because of the way he/she is treated so you have a poor self image. When you have a poor self image it affects your confidence thus affecting your ability to do x job, affecting your ability to socialize, your mood, your mental health etc. so you can see how this this can affect your career at least from a internal point of view that is not even taking into account the external i.e. something outside of your control like how other people see you and treat you.

Dating and career are both correlated because they both deal with people and people are biased. It's a no brainer.
You earn $800 more for every inch taller you are. This is a statistical fact so how can you say that height doesn't affect career when you know this?

That's right I am speaking for personal experience. It seems that no many people here did the surgery to get promoted in the workplace  either.

What would make more sense is, supposed I got good looks, my height can hinder me from being a male model/actor/flight attendant. Then I do the surgery to increase my height. If you do the surgery so that you can get promoted in the workplace, that'd be a joke.

I'm sure if someone did the survey, we'd find that good-looking people earn more money compared to bad-looking people. There are female Instagram models who make money just by being attractive alone. Would you like to complain about that?

In the end good-looking people in general will always have an advantage in every aspect in life.


How is getting LL surgery to get a job you want or to give you a better chance to get that job any different from wanting to LL to get more respect, become more attractive or to fix height neurosis? Yes good looking people probably earn more money than ugly people. Height is a part of what is "good looking". The further opposite of "good" you are the more you are penalized or the harder it is for you. You have height neurosis because being short is considered bad in our society. You wouldn't be in this forum wanting to get LL if you didn't. They part of the same problem.

You might not feel like your height affects your career just as there are short guys who don't have height neurosis and go on with their life.
Saying people who feel limited by their height don't have the drive to succeed in their career is no different than saying people who feel limited by their height neurosis don't have the willpower to move forward in their life. If anything your height neurosis is self imposed.
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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2020, 11:13:37 AM »

The thing is we don't feel like being limited in our career.

Some of the posters here don't even have careers LOL.
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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2020, 11:40:56 AM »

What do you disagree with what I said?

I don't know why you act like being limited in your career because of your height is any different than not being seen as a man or becoming more attractive to the opposite sxx.

Maybe because they don't care about the opposite s*x. Or any s*x at all, and don't give a damn anymore.
So it can be 'different'. It varies from individual to individual.

So

Working enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand for everyone.

..

When you're considered less attractive to the opposite sxx and treated with less respect you can expect that person to have a lower self esteem because of the way he/she is treated so you have a poor self image. When you have a poor self image it affects your confidence thus affecting your ability to do x job, affecting your ability to socialize, your mood, your mental health etc. so you can see how this this can affect your career at least from a internal point of view that is not even taking into account the external i.e. something outside of your control like how other people see you and treat you.

Yes. I don't disagree with everything that you say/id, the quoted parts were the ones, just to be clear.
The second 'point' you 'quoted' in this case is caused by 1 and 3. Like unequal job opportunities that you mention below, lower self esteem, etc.

..

Dating and career are both correlated because they both deal with people and people are biased. It's a no brainer.
You earn $800 more for every inch taller you are. This is a statistical fact so how can you say that height doesn't affect career when you know this?

When did I say that height doesn't affect career statistically?
I didn't say that dating and career aren't correlated. For some they aren't.
Working enviroments and dating are not equal in importance height-wise nor come hand to hand for everyone.

Also disagree with your comparison.

short men can become successful and have great careers, just like short men can date beautiful and gorgeous models or have a high status but those are outliers not the mean.

..

Some of the posters here don't even have careers LOL.

Been working as a programmer for a while and I already feel the heightism.
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ghkid2019

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2020, 12:05:27 PM »

[Redacted, wrong post, wrong brain]
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Bruce Wayne

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2020, 12:27:57 PM »

You have height neurosis because being short is considered bad in our society. You wouldn't be in this forum wanting to get LL if you didn't. They part of the same problem.

Being short is considered bad in our society because it is inherently bad. Trying to change that is just as moronic as trying to change the way being ugly/fat/small-dcked is considered bad.
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ghkid2019

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2020, 12:38:16 PM »

One thing I will say about the whole height neurosis/ heightism/ leg lengthening procedure / everything this whole ordeal, is that you can think for yourselves as to why you should or shouldn't do this surgery. I have my own opinions, but it's just that- opinions. Plenty of people have their own, completely logical and justified unorthodox reasons for why they want to do their surgery. In the end if this surgery will improve your quality of life- by either removing neurosis (don't conflate this with being happier tho) or by opening doors that you practically weren't able to open as a shorter person, then more power to you.

And that's the ultimate goal- to achieve a better quality of life after this surgery. I will support everyone, if your intended effect of this surgery is to improve your life- then you don't need to take in other people's opinions. You can think for yourself- and that's a positive thing.

Imagine you go to R/short or the YouTube comments and try to explain why you want to do this procedure. Every argument would start and end with "muh breaking muh bones so dangerous perma pain oh my god I can buy a house wit dat moola". We unfortunately will never be approval from 98% of society for wanting to do this surgery or seen as "same" when in fact we know the truth and how this surgery actually makes total sense if you think about how much height neurosis/height insecurities/ problems resulting from height, how much this really drags down our life and how LL's pain and downsides really aren't too bad in comparison to the reward it can provide in improving our mental state and outlook on life.

You can think for yourself- and you don't need others approval to do this surgery. Everyone has their own reasons. I am just giving an opinion, but I can definitely see how some people's experience differ and are completely valid and justified.

I'm gonna share a random quote I found online a few weeks ago (it's underrelated to LL, but rather transgenderism, I'm not trans at all but it applies the same way to Leg surgery and Transitioning surgery/hormone therapy):

"
Quote
Before I transitioned, I wish I had known that it's OK to think for yourself. I grew up in a tough, hostile home environment. Facing that and a society that discourages female voices made everything even more difficult. I felt like I couldn't trust myself. It took finding feminism to realize that my voice mattered.

I fought with myself for quite a while. As a child I felt male and even "packed"—padding a phallic object in the front of pants or underwear. A girl that I felt strongly for told me that she only liked boys, and inside I was screaming, "But I am one!" As a teenager I was judged a lot, frequently labelled as too loud and opinionated, and even too happy. But my outward appearance of happiness [masked] self-hatred.


 I felt that I needed to be sure. Over and over, I asked others if they could tell me if I was trans. Deep down I knew the answer, but I needed confirmation. When I finally told a mental health professional that I thought I could be transgender (guiltily as if I were admitting to a crime) he said, "You can just [stay] a female and wear men's clothing."

Just two weeks later (and against the professional’s advice), I was in a support group when a trans woman broke down in tears and said she felt all alone. Her family was not accepting her transition. When I stood up for her, I realized that I could stand up for myself, too. I came out to the support group as a boy (with my hair still in pigtails).

That was a year ago. Yesterday, I went in for my first testosterone appointment. I am just now accepting who I am, for myself. The main thing that I wish I would have known before I transitioned is that you don't need anyone's permission but your own."

Essentially replace "transitioning" with "leg lengthening" and you'll see what I mean.

That last part is the most important part.

You don't need other people's permission, not your parents, friends, society's, women, siblings, co-workers, nah fk that.

"you don't need anyone's permission but your own"
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carpetendro

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Re: Back when The National Organization of Short Statured Adults (NOSSA) was real
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2020, 01:24:27 PM »

So

..

Yes. I don't disagree with everything that you say/id, the quoted parts were the ones, just to be clear.
..

When did I say that height doesn't affect career statistically?
I didn't say that dating and career aren't correlated. For some they aren't.
Also disagree with your comparison.

..

Been working as a programmer for a while and I already feel the heightism.

You're arguing semantics. Yes for some their height limits their career more, for some their dating and for somebody else how much they're respected. You could be affected on all of these or some of them so which one affects you might be different but the common denominator is that they're limited by their height which is why they're not that different.
If you don't care about the opposite sxx or sxx, that doesn't mean that your height won't affect you in attracting the opposite sxx or getting sxx, it doesn't affect you in the sense that you don't care about it.

One thing I will say about the whole height neurosis/ heightism/ leg lengthening procedure / everything this whole ordeal, is that you can think for yourselves as to why you should or shouldn't do this surgery. I have my own opinions, but it's just that- opinions. Plenty of people have their own, completely logical and justified unorthodox reasons for why they want to do their surgery. In the end if this surgery will improve your quality of life- by either removing neurosis (don't conflate this with being happier tho) or by opening doors that you practically weren't able to open as a shorter person, then more power to you.

And that's the ultimate goal- to achieve a better quality of life after this surgery. I will support everyone, if your intended effect of this surgery is to improve your life- then you don't need to take in other people's opinions. You can think for yourself- and that's a positive thing.

Imagine you go to R/short or the YouTube comments and try to explain why you want to do this procedure. Every argument would start and end with "muh breaking muh bones so dangerous perma pain oh my god I can buy a house wit dat moola". We unfortunately will never be approval from 98% of society for wanting to do this surgery or seen as "same" when in fact we know the truth and how this surgery actually makes total sense if you think about how much height neurosis/height insecurities/ problems resulting from height, how much this really drags down our life and how LL's pain and downsides really aren't too bad in comparison to the reward it can provide in improving our mental state and outlook on life.

You can think for yourself- and you don't need others approval to do this surgery. Everyone has their own reasons. I am just giving an opinion, but I can definitely see how some people's experience differ and are completely valid and justified.

I'm gonna share a random quote I found online a few weeks ago (it's underrelated to LL, but rather transgenderism, I'm not trans at all but it applies the same way to Leg surgery and Transitioning surgery/hormone therapy):

"
Essentially replace "transitioning" with "leg lengthening" and you'll see what I mean.

That last part is the most important part.

You don't need other people's permission, not your parents, friends, society's, women, siblings, co-workers, nah fk that.

"you don't need anyone's permission but your own"

I agree with most of your points except that leg lengthening and transitioning is the same in practicality but not in essence. What I mean by this is that we both change our bodies to become more comfortable/happier but the difference between transitioning and leg lengthening is that not all of us were meant to be tall/taller. We might have ended up short completely naturally without external effects hindering our growth potential whereas trans people were born with the opposite gender identity (their innate knowledge of who they are) of their assigned sxx. You don't know that you were meant to be 6'2 even from when you're little (although some might disagree here) but you know that if you are a boy or a girl.
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