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[Nomad34]

I'm probably facing surgery in August. I will have a set of tests in two weeks. Of course, the closer I get to surgery, the more doubt comes up as well as more questions I plan to ask the doctor at my next appointment. Nevertheless, I would be very grateful if one of you could answer my questions

1) In my case it will be the LON method with a target of 5cm. From what I understand, I will have 2.5cm nails both in the tibia and in the thigh. I inquired at the clinic where I am to be operated on and got this answer:
"Lon works as you describe, making the patient reach 5 cm. And this hurts more than our 2.5 cm on the lower leg. We to get 5 cm we also put a nail in the thigh. And then we get 5 cm. In our case, the procedure is just implanting a reconstructive nail, after cutting the tibia or shin bone and then using the internal flexibility in the recovery process. We do not use a brace; rehabilitation both before and after the procedure is of great importance."
 Does this actually mean that 2x2.5cm is better than one 5cm stretch in terms of recovery as well as full physical activity? The surgeon I spoke with maintained that I would be able to return to sports after a few months. On the forum, on the other hand, from what I can see, a person who can play soccer 2 years after surgery is considered a phenomenon. What is it like in the end?

2) Can a person who has hypermobility undergo this procedure?

BR,
Nomad

[dexter1930]

I'm probably facing surgery in August. I will have a set of tests in two weeks. Of course, the closer I get to surgery, the more doubt comes up as well as more questions I plan to ask the doctor at my next appointment. Nevertheless, I would be very grateful if one of you could answer my questions

1) In my case it will be the LON method with a target of 5cm. From what I understand, I will have 2.5cm nails both in the tibia and in the thigh. I inquired at the clinic where I am to be operated on and got this answer:
"Lon works as you describe, making the patient reach 5 cm. And this hurts more than our 2.5 cm on the lower leg. We to get 5 cm we also put a nail in the thigh. And then we get 5 cm. In our case, the procedure is just implanting a reconstructive nail, after cutting the tibia or shin bone and then using the internal flexibility in the recovery process. We do not use a brace; rehabilitation both before and after the procedure is of great importance."
 Does this actually mean that 2x2.5cm is better than one 5cm stretch in terms of recovery as well as full physical activity? The surgeon I spoke with maintained that I would be able to return to sports after a few months. On the forum, on the other hand, from what I can see, a person who can play soccer 2 years after surgery is considered a phenomenon. What is it like in the end?

2) Can a person who has hypermobility undergo this procedure?

BR,
Nomad

what the heck is the internal flexibility

[PerfectBody]

This isn’t the dumbest shi*t on this forum, but it’s very close up there.

Instead of breaking your legs twice and laying 40-200k, it’ll be easier to get hit by a car. This is coming from somebody who has done LON, which feels exactly the same way.

[Apollo676]

You better off going for one segment to get your 5cm,even on tibias 5cm is relatively safe,and on femurs its quite conservative,let alone the total cost of two operations

[Nomad34]

I think there's been a misunderstanding. It will not be two separate surgeries, but one in which the tibia will be lengthened by 2.5cm and the femur also by 2.5cm

[PerfectBody]

Your body will not recover from this, neither the trauma or healing. If you do manage to walk you will be limping for years. No surgeon will do this because it’s insane (bordering stupid), and also almost an 8 hour surgery.

I’m not trying to gatekeeper but this is a dangerous commitment. You really have no idea what LL is about and it shows; this is painful and expensive. Go read diaries.

[overandover]

Your body will not recover from this, neither the trauma or healing. If you do manage to walk you will be limping for years. No surgeon will do this because it’s insane (bordering stupid), and also almost an 8 hour surgery.

I’m not trying to gatekeeper but this is a dangerous commitment. You really have no idea what LL is about and it shows; this is painful and expensive. Go read diaries.

Dr. Lee offers 3 + 3 quad lengthening and he says it's the fastest & safest way to get 6 cm if you have money.

[PerfectBody]

Dr. Lee offers 3 + 3 quad lengthening and he says it's the fastest & safest way to get 6 cm if you have money.

I’m shocked, but if that’s what you want I’m sure you’ll find a surgeon who will do it for you. Having two discontinued segments on one limb sounds horrific. Good luck. I’ll pay to read that diary

[overandover]

I’m shocked, but if that’s what you want I’m sure you’ll find a surgeon who will do it for you. Having two discontinued segments on one limb sounds horrific. Good luck. I’ll pay to read that diary

I'll be doing just one. Just saying that that option exists and some good surgeons even recommend that if you can afford it.

[overandover]

I’m shocked, but if that’s what you want I’m sure you’ll find a surgeon who will do it for you. Having two discontinued segments on one limb sounds horrific. Good luck. I’ll pay to read that diary

Also, there's a diary of a guy who did 2.5 cm in tibia and then 5 cm in femurs from paley. The username is overloadyourgenes or something you can search this forum.

[PerfectBody]

Also, there's a diary of a guy who did 2.5 cm in tibia and then 5 cm in femurs from paley. The username is overloadyourgenes or something you can search this forum.

Simultaneously?? No way. Thanks for finding this

[overandover]

Simultaneously?? No way. Thanks for finding this

here's the link: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=5352

[dexter1930]

here's the link: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=5352

which doctor recommend doing only 5cm in totality by lengthening tibias and femur 2.5cm at the same time. provide the source, no logic by any mean

[Activatedxx]

Simultaneously?? No way. Thanks for finding this

Paley did simultaneous lengthening on femur and tibia on one patient, but he doesn’t offer it because the risk of fat embolism is way higher and you could seriously die for doing all 4 limbs at once. Unless it’s internal nails  It is extremely dumb in my opinion, even with internal nails the pain of 6 broken bones (femur tibia and fibula) it would be pretty F ing bad

[Worzezterlire]

Simultaneously?? No way. Thanks for finding this

LON simultaneous lengthening sounds almost impossibly torturous but I’ve seen in person a number of patients for Paley and debiparshad who are doing quadrilateral precise.  It’s basically torture but people who are very flexible and who are extremely motivated can get their goals.  Most seem to stop earlier than their goals because of the immense pain of two segments and then just allow consolidation early.  Some go back to rebreak later and do more, others don’t.
 
I wouldn’t recommend quadrilateral to virtually anybody tbh.  Bilateral tibias looks like torture compared to femurs, and femurs are not easy.  Combine those and I bet it’s more painful than the sum of their pain.

[Dark]

A friendly advice, any surgeon that promises you that you would be able to return to sport after a fixed timeframe is a scam doctor.

[Fiveandsomething]

I'll be doing just one. Just saying that that option exists and some good surgeons even recommend that if you can afford it.

lol dude I won’t be harsh. If your goal is 7+ you can get that on femurs only. Any doctor that operates and your femurs and Tibias at once has no Morals and or integrity.

You will also have to OD On painkillers to keep the pain away...and I don’t even see that working for LON. I just don’t see you being capable of walking at all.
LON is the devils bitter Ex GF...  is Physically torturing, Menatally exhausting and Just Frustrating on a daily.

[Nomad34]

Yeah, I don't believe in quick recovery. People after ordinary fractures take a long time to be able to return to sport, let alone patients after LL.

[Nomad34]

I thought things through and came to the conclusion that it would be better to focus only on the tibias. Still have concerns about hypermobility, though, as that could completely rule me out of the surgery.

[Nomad34]

There was a policy change at my company regarding Covid and strictures and we just received word that we are to return to the office in January 2022. If I were to have surgery in August, is there any chance of walking on my own after those 5 months?

[overandover]

Yeah, I don't believe in quick recovery. People after ordinary fractures take a long time to be able to return to sport, let alone patients after LL.

1 cm per month is a good estimate for femurs. 1.5 for tibia LON. 2 for external tibia. There was a paper on it can't find the link now.

[Nomad34]

How else can the surgeon be verified? I am tentatively scheduled for a qualifying examination, but I keep having doubts. Which is probably normal for a procedure like this, but there are other issues at stake here.

  First, the price is very attractive. I even asked this doctor about it, that for the time being this method (he also offers other much more expensive ones) is the price they offer, but this will change in some time. I don't know if it means that the guy has no or little experience in LL, but I will ask about it.

Secondly, the guy is known as a very good orthopedic surgeon, but there is a difference between a very good orthopedist and someone who specialized in limb lengthening. Generally such lengthening is done by surgeons quite often for complicated fractures, but not on this scale(2cm max and one limb).

Thirdly, no one boasts about such a procedure. Here where I live the first such operation was performed about 3 years ago and it is almost impossible to find someone who has such experience.

I'm sorry to bother you like this, but on the one hand I see this as a huge opportunity for me, and on the other I'm afraid I'll make a mistake I'll regret for the rest of my life. It would help if I could talk to a patient who has had this procedure with this surgeon, but I'm afraid that's not possible.

[Fiveandsomething]

How else can the surgeon be verified? I am tentatively scheduled for a qualifying examination, but I keep having doubts. Which is probably normal for a procedure like this, but there are other issues at stake here.

  First, the price is very attractive. I even asked this doctor about it, that for the time being this method (he also offers other much more expensive ones) is the price they offer, but this will change in some time. I don't know if it means that the guy has no or little experience in LL, but I will ask about it.

Secondly, the guy is known as a very good orthopedic surgeon, but there is a difference between a very good orthopedist and someone who specialized in limb lengthening. Generally such lengthening is done by surgeons quite often for complicated fractures, but not on this scale(2cm max and one limb).

Thirdly, no one boasts about such a procedure. Here where I live the first such operation was performed about 3 years ago and it is almost impossible to find someone who has such experience.

I'm sorry to bother you like this, but on the one hand I see this as a huge opportunity for me, and on the other I'm afraid I'll make a mistake I'll regret for the rest of my life. It would help if I could talk to a patient who has had this procedure with this surgeon, but I'm afraid that's not possible.

Who is the doctor?? Also do not get double LON. That is stupid and you’ll cry a
Way too often from the pain.

[Nomad34]

Who is the doctor?? Also do not get double LON. That is stupid and you’ll cry a
Way too often from the pain.

The doctor's name is Lukasz Budziaszek, but that certainly won't tell you anything. Here, where I live in Poland there are two clinics offering this type of service, in one of them the price for one leg using LATN method is 9000 euro. In the other one, where dr Budziaszek operates, the price for both legs using LON method is 8860 euro... So 9000 euro for one leg vs 8860 euro for both legs. Sounds too good right?

[Fiveandsomething]

The doctor's name is Lukasz Budziaszek, but that certainly won't tell you anything. Here, where I live in Poland there are two clinics offering this type of service, in one of them the price for one leg using LATN method is 9000 euro. In the other one, where dr Budziaszek operates, the price for both legs using LON method is 8860 euro... So 9000 euro for one leg vs 8860 euro for both legs. Sounds too good right?

No sounds about right and is definitely inexpensive. I’m assuming this is for the basic surgery only and nothing more?

[Joshua1996]

I'm probably facing surgery in August. I will have a set of tests in two weeks. Of course, the closer I get to surgery, the more doubt comes up as well as more questions I plan to ask the doctor at my next appointment. Nevertheless, I would be very grateful if one of you could answer my questions

1) In my case it will be the LON method with a target of 5cm. From what I understand, I will have 2.5cm nails both in the tibia and in the thigh. I inquired at the clinic where I am to be operated on and got this answer:
"Lon works as you describe, making the patient reach 5 cm. And this hurts more than our 2.5 cm on the lower leg. We to get 5 cm we also put a nail in the thigh. And then we get 5 cm. In our case, the procedure is just implanting a reconstructive nail, after cutting the tibia or shin bone and then using the internal flexibility in the recovery process. We do not use a brace; rehabilitation both before and after the procedure is of great importance."
 Does this actually mean that 2x2.5cm is better than one 5cm stretch in terms of recovery as well as full physical activity? The surgeon I spoke with maintained that I would be able to return to sports after a few months. On the forum, on the other hand, from what I can see, a person who can play soccer 2 years after surgery is considered a phenomenon. What is it like in the end?

2) Can a person who has hypermobility undergo this procedure?

BR,
Nomad

I think that is not a standard LON procedure. This doc is going to planting a reconstructive nail in your tibia and thigh. And he said that you don‘t use a brace. and there is a small scale(2cm max and one limb) . This is the difference. Instead of getting 5cm steadily, you will get 5cm immediately after your surgery.

an immediately lengthen of 2.5cm in one part sounds reasonable, for the flexibility of our limb. But 2X2.5 in one surgery? that's risky.

So maybe you can lengthen 2.5cm at first, and after a soon recovery, lengthen 2.5cm again.

As for the injury and pain. This method should be much more comfortable than traditional Lon because you don't need a brace. There is no external device.

and you can start your rehabilitation soon after your surgery, this makes fast recovery possible.

can you give us the website of his clinic? or his email address? this is a brand new technology, and is suitable for those who want an small lengthening, fast recovery, unaffected sport ability.

[Joshua1996]

The doctor's name is Lukasz Budziaszek, but that certainly won't tell you anything. Here, where I live in Poland there are two clinics offering this type of service, in one of them the price for one leg using LATN method is 9000 euro. In the other one, where dr Budziaszek operates, the price for both legs using LON method is 8860 euro... So 9000 euro for one leg vs 8860 euro for both legs. Sounds too good right?

This is not an standard LON method, they don't need an external device. The price should be much lower than LON. You can compare the price with the reconstruction of bone, not CLL.

is this  the price for lengthening both legs? the tibia and thigh of both legs? that is attractive.

can you ask him that if it possible to finish this procedure in two surgery? and what about the price in that way?

[Joshua1996]

Lengthening tibia and femur simultaneously by Lon is crazy. But this doc is not doing Lon.he said it will be a small scale(2cm max and one limb). So there is no external device, no nail hole on your skin.

This is a traditional  bone reconstructive surgery , and that makes fast recovery possible. you should compare the recovery time with those who had an bone fracture, not those with CLL.

an 2.5cm lengthening on each part should not hurt your sport ability, the distance is too small.

an immediately lengthening sounds crazy in CLL but this is different. the 2.5cm is at  initial,  the most safe and easy period of whole lengthening, and maybe it common in bone reconstructive surgery.

this method reduce the chance of infection, minimize the pain of the process.

what i am concerned is the safety of lengthening 2.5X2 in one surgery.  2.5cm is an small lengthen in one part.  maybe it's a wiser choice to do it in two surgery. 

[Joshua1996]

How else can the surgeon be verified? I am tentatively scheduled for a qualifying examination, but I keep having doubts. Which is probably normal for a procedure like this, but there are other issues at stake here.

  First, the price is very attractive. I even asked this doctor about it, that for the time being this method (he also offers other much more expensive ones) is the price they offer, but this will change in some time. I don't know if it means that the guy has no or little experience in LL, but I will ask about it.

Secondly, the guy is known as a very good orthopedic surgeon, but there is a difference between a very good orthopedist and someone who specialized in limb lengthening. Generally such lengthening is done by surgeons quite often for complicated fractures, but not on this scale(2cm max and one limb).

Thirdly, no one boasts about such a procedure. Here where I live the first such operation was performed about 3 years ago and it is almost impossible to find someone who has such experience.

I'm sorry to bother you like this, but on the one hand I see this as a huge opportunity for me, and on the other I'm afraid I'll make a mistake I'll regret for the rest of my life. It would help if I could talk to a patient who has had this procedure with this surgeon, but I'm afraid that's not possible.

Actually, the core of the CLL technology is bone transport. As the name suggests, it is to gradually "move" the free bone segment and there will be new bone formation on the trace of "walking" of the bone. Bone transport is the gold standard for the treatment of large bone defects(5~7cm in tibia or 6~8cm in femur).  The speed of bone transport is limited for better recovery of bone itself。 and of course it also give the soft tissue enough time to adjust.

But things is different here. You will got a small gap of 2.5cm, which is much less than other CLL case. You don't need bone transport,  ask the doctor whether he will plant some artificial bone particle or not. On the other way, due to the limited lengthen distance, your soft tissue can easily get adjusted. Never heard of anybody feeling stretched or Joint movement disorder when he or she is at 2.5cm or 3cm. Their pain is mainly caused by external device or the implanting surgery.

This is more like an usual bone fracture surgery, not CLL.

But it seems too risky if you do femur and tibia at one surgery. the injury is too serious and the time of surgery is too long.



Anyway, this doctor provide a new way to lengthen limb. Can you post his website ，introduction or his email address? or share his opinions here.

[Joshua1996]

How does he avoid the problem of nonunion？This is the most important problem.