Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Doctors => Topic started by: Muse on August 18, 2014, 08:29:12 AM
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Information on Dr Leonid N.Solomin, located at St.Petersburg, Russia.
Note: Please refer to our disclaimer about the Doctors Directory http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0
(http://i.imgur.com/MUO9ktI.jpg)
1) What is the recommended amount to lengthen ?
On average, 3-6 cm for femur and lower leg: depends on the initial extremity length: the longer the initial length, the greater the elongation possible.
2) What is the total price and LL methods you can perform ?
Conventional Ilizarov, LON and LATN as well.
Price range ~$1.500 - >$15.000 - depends on many parameters (duration of hospital stay, single or six bed room etc)
Conventional Ilizarov + 3 weeks in the hospital = ~$5.000
We are state Institution and there is a special finance department here. I can only report the average price, what I've done. We should discuss all the details only in a personal meeting and then you visit the finance department.
3) What is the recovery time?
~ 4 months - >12 months - depends on many parameters.
Brief Profile From Website
1986: graduated from Blagoveshchensky State Medical University;
1986-1991: post-graduate education, specialization in traumatology and orthopaedics;
1991-1993: the assistant of Chair of Traumatology and Orthopedics of Blagoveschensky State Medical University;
1993-1995: External Fixation Laboratory Researcher at Irkutsky Research Institute of Traumatology and Orthopedics;
1992: PhD thesis;
1995-1998: Head of Department of Traumatology and Orthopedics at Irkutsky Region Hospital;
1996: Doctor of Science;
1998-2000: Head of Department of External Fixation at Irkutsky Research Institute of Traumatology and Orthopedics;
2008: Full professor of orthopedic surgery
2000 till now: head of External Fixation Department at R.R. Vreden Russian Research Institute of Traumatology and Orthopaedics (Saint-Petersburg, Russia).
Author of over 350 articles and abstracts, 4 monographs, 46 patents of Russia.
The main field of work is devoted to development, perfection, substantiation and clinical application of external fixation in fractures, non-unions, deformations, defects of long bones, foot and pelvis including congenital and infection problems.
Contact Info
Leonid N.Solomin, MD, PhD
Professor of Orthopaedic Surgery
Head of ExFix Department
R.R.Vreden Russian Research Institute of Traumatology and Orthopedics
8 Baykova Str., St.Petersburg, 195427, Russia
Phones: +7(812)670-8743, 670-9596
Mobile: +7 904 519 39 89
Website: http://www.rniito.org/solomin_eng/index.html
E-mail: solomin.leonid@gmail.com
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R.R.Vreden Russian Research Institute of Traumatology and Orthopedics
That's where I'm lengthening. He's working closely with my doc.
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Wow,new doc,never heard of him...And he is cheap too.Exclide,is he good,is it worth doing surgery in St.Petersburg?
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Wow,new doc,never heard of him...And he is cheap too.Exclide,is he good,is it worth doing surgery in St.Petersburg?
He's very experienced that's for sure. He'll install the frames on you just fine, but the PT and luxury is lacking at the clinic. But for the price it's understood. Just make sure to stretch daily and also walk at least 30 mins a day, and don't expect special treatment.
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He's very experienced that's for sure. He'll install the frames on you just fine, but the PT and luxury is lacking at the clinic. But for the price it's understood. Just make sure to stretch daily and also walk at least 30 mins a day, and don't expect special treatment.
Price is like 5000 $ for externals?This is great.Im not into luxury,pt can do myself.Wow,I will consider him in near future ;)
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Im assuming thats $5,000 in Euro?
Exclide, are you staying in their clinic/hospital or renting an apartment?
Do you know how much the hospital stay is a month?
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Im assuming thats $5,000 in Euro?
I think its more likely in euros too...C'mon Exclide,give us more details man :DA diary will be most helpful from u ;D
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Im assuming thats $5,000 in Euro?
It's dollars ($), as stated in the OP-post.
Price range ~$1.500 - >$15.000 - depends on many parameters (duration of hospital stay, single or six bed room etc)
are you staying in their clinic/hospital or renting an apartment?
I live in St. Petersburg, currently staying at home. Hospital stay is 2200 rub/day for a single bed room or around 60 USD.
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If it really is dollars then damn thats cheap!!! :o
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If it really is dollars then damn thats cheap!!! :o
I think so too,its really tempting.
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The price is very competitive. He seems to have good credentials as well.
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HELLO can u share any pictures of hospitals or patients ??
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I was thinking to go to dr.Mitković because Im from Serbia too,but this is more affordable and seems to me he have some prety good credentials.And I don't mind to meet some russian girls too ;D
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Nice
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Really nice. I think he uses monorail for femurs
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Exilde, can you post pictures of your frames?
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Exilde, can you post pictures of your frames?
http://i.imgur.com/nKxpMGd.jpg
And no, he doesn't use monorails.
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Exclide that is an ilizarov in your femur? Wow
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Wow,ur femur is so slim man :D Nice frames,great job.
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My femurs got that slim too, just from inactivity/atrophy.
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My femurs got that slim too, just from inactivity/atrophy.
I know,I know,my femur will also look like that after 3,4 months not doing anything,just kidding a little bit.No hard feelings :(
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I have muscular legs. Really impressive look those so slim
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I have muscular legs too,was football player when I was younger.
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It doesn't matter how muscular your thighs are, you will lose them anyway after a few weeks of not walking but you can gain them back as fast as you lost them.
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I know that,like duck ass.
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Looks like a pretty sturdy frame, for sure. Does anyone know if they fixate the fibula during tibial lengthening?
Exilde, how would you describe the pain of doing external Iliarov femurs? How is the alignment of your femur after so much lengthening?
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Does anyone know if they fixate the fibula during tibial lengthening?
It's fixed to the tibia by small pins in the lower and upper sections, while tibia itself is fixed by bigger (thicker) pins.
Exilde, how would you describe the pain of doing external Iliarov femurs? How is the alignment of your femur after so much lengthening?
I was lengthening at 1.5-2mm a day, it did hurt 24/7, but it was tolerable. I doubt it's any different from internal lengthening. And I legnthened femurs by their anatomical axes, straight. Yes, I know about mechanical axes, but I didn't notice it change much in my case, maybe it's due to very thin pelvis. You can always change the axis the way you want though with externals.
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How big are the frames? If its the traditional ilizarov , is it possible to get a smaller one?
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This is the first surgeon in Russia that I've seen offers LON. Good for those who have Russia in mind but can't wear the frames for the duration required for externals.
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Hi exclide
I hope to have external femur lengthening in the near future and he might be a good Doctor.
how much did you pay for the surgery and the cost for hospital stay?
plus how is your knee movement?
Did you do external femur only or LON?
thank you, exclide!
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This is actually interesting with external femurs. There are very few diaries on this so why don't you start one Exclide?
How many centimeters are you aiming for?
How is the alignment of your hip, knees and feet?
Can you walk with the frames?
Are you doing both legs at the same time or just one?
What is the worse pain with external femurs?
Good luck, hope for the best!
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how much did you pay for the surgery and the cost for hospital stay?
plus how is your knee movement?
Did you do external femur only or LON?
The surgery was around 3000$ with externals and 10-day hospital stay included. Keep in mind they might have different prices for international patients.
I can straight my knees easy, but I can't bend much - it goes always with femur externals. You can't bend your knee right after the surgery and it gets worse the more you lengthen. But it recovers to full motion in 1-2 month after you remove the frames.
I did only external.
This is actually interesting with external femurs. There are very few diaries on this so why don't you start one Exclide?
How many centimeters are you aiming for?
How is the alignment of your hip, knees and feet?
Can you walk with the frames?
Are you doing both legs at the same time or just one?
What is the worse pain with external femurs?
Good luck, hope for the best!
I'm consolidating atm, not much to write to be honest.
I did 7.5-8 cm on fems and 7.5-8 on tibs, I'm now waiting till I consolidate and have the second surgery.
Not sure what do you mean by alignment, I noticed nothing change. (I had a little varus that was corrected, they're now straight, with a little varus I left intentionally on both)
Yes, I can walk with the frames unaided.
I didn't have much pain even with the increased lengthening speed, my muscles hurt as whole from stretching, but it had nothing to do with externals.
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How big are the frames?
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How big are the frames?
Rather big they're, there's picture on the first page of this thread.
Btw, lengthening femurs simultaneously with externals is a HELL! That's why I'm doing cross-lateral.
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Do u know if is it possible to use smaller ones?for tibias obv
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Do u know if is it possible to use smaller ones?
I don't know probably so, you should ask the Dr., I guess if he creates smaller frame composition that also doesn't go up your ass, you may lengthen both femurs at the same time easily.
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That's where I'm lengthening. He's working closely with my doc.
Hello exclide. I have a few questions
Who is your doc and why did you choose him.
It says somewhere that staying at the hospital costs about 60usd a day. Is the like a cheaper monthly rate? 60usd per night = 1800 usd a month.
The surgery is cheap but the hospital stay will drain your pockets.
Do you know if it is possible to get your own apartment and still be able to go and be seen if you have complications? If yes, is finding an aprtment easy? i know st petersburg might be really expensive but something a little bit farther away, but is it doable and convenient for someone who will most likely have trouble walking?
Thanks
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Hello exclide. I have a few questions
Who is your doc and why did you choose him.
It says somewhere that staying at the hospital costs about 60usd a day. Is the like a cheaper monthly rate? 60usd per night = 1800 usd a month.
The surgery is cheap but the hospital stay will drain your pockets.
Do you know if it is possible to get your own apartment and still be able to go and be seen if you have complications? If yes, is finding an aprtment easy? i know st petersburg might be really expensive but something a little bit farther away, but is it doable and convenient for someone who will most likely have trouble walking?
Thanks
Dr. Kulesh it is, you probably haven't heard of him. He's rather popular here in Russia for cosmetic LL and experienced, that's why. 60$ is for one-bed room. I think it's like twice as cheap if you go with six beds, not sure. And of course you can rent an apartament, not sure if you'll be able to find something for a good price that is close to the clinic though, you probably want to discuss this with the Dr. And yes it's possible, they let you go home, if you want.
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Does he do internals? Or considering doing it in the near future?
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Does he do internals? Or considering doing it in the near future?
The internal lengthening devices cost too much for our patients to afford and that's why they aren't widely used in Russia - that's how he explained it.
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It's interesting and encouraging that you report your pain as contestant but manageable, exilde. Everyone else that I've talked to, who did external femurs (although there aren't many such people on the forums, so small sample size) reported that external femoral lengthening caused excruciating pain for nearly the whole duration of lengthening.
On another note, how bad/deep are the scars of other patients who have lengthened their femurs with your doctor and had their frames removed? Do you know if anyone has been successful on completely or almost completely removing their scars? My understanding is that the scars from external femurs are worse and deeper than those from external tibiae, and much harder to remove through scar removal surgery. Often, silicone must be injected into the scar from what I've read.
How is the PT there?
Can you walk or stand with the frames?
How long do you expect to wear frames for the ~8CM you did on your femurs? Do you know the typical consolidation rate per CM using external femurs?
Do the pins go through any muscles, or can key muscle groups be avoided?
How is the athletic recovery of past patients for this doctor who you've seen, met, or heard of?
I wish you the very best of luck with your lengthening, and hope that your new height helps you live you a very nice life. I perosnally live most of my daily life at 183CM with the aid of shoe lifts, and can say that I feel very, very comfortable in most social environments when I am that height. I've never felt short or small at 183 and hope that you'll feel the same.
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The internal lengthening devices cost too much for our patients to afford and that's why they aren't widely used in Russia - that's how he explained it.
But would he use them on patients who can afford the internal nails?
It just seems that his surgery and hospital stay prices are really competitive and I wouldn't mind adding the cost of Precice nails to that.
If my calculations are not too off, one could get Precice for around 40k USD:
Nails (25,000*) + stay for 90 days in 6 person ward (90 x 30 = 2,700) + surgery (1,500 ??) = 29,200 USD
*On Dr Lyall Ashberg's page he states that each Precice nail costs 130,000 ZAR which is aproximately 12,500 USD, so it would be more like 25,000 for both Precice nails.
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reported that external femoral lengthening caused excruciating pain for nearly the whole duration of lengthening.
That makes no sense to me. My pin sites never really hurt, it was general pain from legnthening and I actually didn't have any pain at all at the start (expect first 3-4 days after surgery), when I was lengthening at a smaller rate.
On another note, how bad/deep are the scars of other patients who have lengthened their femurs with your doctor and had their frames removed?
Can't comment much on this one, his patients mostly do tibias for obvious reasons. Personally, I don't care about the scars.
How is the PT there?
Can you walk or stand with the frames?
PT is not there, lol, well it is, but it's pretty poor. You have to take care of it yourself. Of course I can walk and stand with the frames, externals can weight bear a lot and I weight like nothing.
How long do you expect to wear frames for the ~8CM you did on your femurs? Do you know the typical consolidation rate per CM using external femurs?
Well different sources have different opinions. I know western Drs. say you need at least 1 month for every cm lengthened. It's different at Ilizarov's centre with 2 month for 5cm and a month for every cm extra. I had a faster than usual consolidation rate, so it's been estimated for me to wear the frames for 2 months. Not sure about that though, I'll see soon.
Do the pins go through any muscles, or can key muscle groups be avoided?
Yes it goes through vastus lateralis muscle I think, yea that's for sure. Most likely.
How is the athletic recovery of past patients for this doctor who you've seen, met, or heard of?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeikvoqQ-s
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But would he use them on patients who can afford the internal nails?
You should ask him, if you think it's a good idea.
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how about external tibia , I plan to do the surgery and go back home how much will that cost me ?
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Wow exclude that's great.If there are small frames for femurs I will definately go for them. Cause I am 5'8 have 42cm tibia and 47-48 femurs which is pretty small so with 3 inches on femurs I wil look pretty good.
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If Dr. Solomin has done external femur lengthening many times, each time ensuring proper alignment and physical recovery, then he could be the long sought after cheap but reliable femur option that CLL'ers have been trying to find for years now. However, I'd be a bit worried about my femurs looking like this afterwards:
(http://dontfalloff.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/522549_560609057293798_434945096_n.jpg)
The fact that Dr. Solomin fixates the fibula on both ends in cases of tibial lengthening seems to suggest that he is a very competent doctor.
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I'd be a bit worried about my femurs looking like this afterwards:
The pin site scars will always be there (and they may also tear). But the surgery cut scars they're very small, unlike the ones on the pic (if they're surgery cuts, not sure).
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You're right. It's part the price to pay for getting cheap external femurs, I suppose. Femur scars will almost certainly be deeper and worse than tibia scars, I presume, due to the femur's thickness and amount of soft tissue. I do wonder if the pin site scars can be removed surgically, though.
When do you get your femoral frame removed, Exilde?
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If Dr. Solomin has done external femur lengthening many times, each time ensuring proper alignment and physical recovery, then he could be the long sought after cheap but reliable femur option that CLL'ers have been trying to find for years now. However, I'd be a bit worried about my femurs looking like this afterwards:
(http://dontfalloff.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/522549_560609057293798_434945096_n.jpg)
The fact that Dr. Solomin fixates the fibula on both ends in cases of tibial lengthening seems to suggest that he is a very competent doctor.
this is tibia righ ? I think if the the leg is skiny the scars cant be seen especially if a hairy leg
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How long, generally speaking, would it take to do cross lengthening for a 4CM gain on the tibiae and a 4CM gain on the femurs?
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How long, generally speaking, would it take to do cross lengthening for a 4CM gain on the tibiae and a 4CM gain on the femurs?
Just externals with no rods? Take a look
(http://i.imgur.com/jOUi10p.jpg?1?3928)
Mean age is 30 in the study. You should expect to consolidate faster if you're younger. So that's 37 days for a cm. 148 days for first stage, then you'll need 1-2 month of PT to restore ROM and for general rehab and repeat...
If you do LON, you can lengthen 4 cm in a month, take the externals off, repeat, you'll be done in 2 months. FML, why didn't I go with LON? This crap takes forever to heal OMG
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That sounds quite tantalizing, and I'm sure my proportions would look completely fine (at least to ~99.99% of people) after 4+4CM. However, I wouldn't do LON on my tibiae because of the high chance of knee pain. I do wonder how feasible LON on the femurs is, though. If it's doable, it would be very nice.
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id do femurs if i can get lon on femurs and be done in 2 months
can't believe I'm saying this...
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I wonder if it's possible to do LON or LATN Ilizarov femurs, and still lengthen along the mechanical axis. I suspect that the IM nail used in LON would limit you to only being able to lengthen along the anatomical axis, though. For LATN, it may still be possible to lengthen along the mechanical axis (and insert the nail along the mechanical axis upon completion of lengthening), but it would be nice if someone with more expertise than me could shed light on this.
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Lon for tibia ofcourse, there is no other way except internal method but only rich people can have that. So lon for tibia and then remove the rod after consolidation is complete will end the problems i hope.
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Okay so if you are going to increase your height by 15cm is it better to go for LON or external?
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Okay so if you are going to increase your height by 15cm is it better to go for LON or external?
You might do what Jungle did and do external-only tibiae first, and while they're consolidating do LON femurs.
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external-only tibiae first, and while they're consolidating do LON femurs
bingo :) that is the correct method to use. :)
that would prevent all the risk concerning the patella tendon :)
that is the method I intend to use :)
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okay so 7.5cm on tibia with external and 7.5cm on fib with lon which will probably cost how much overall?
And what do I do now to make this happen? do i get my passport ready,build up some cash, call the doctor,etc?
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okay so 7.5cm on tibia with external and 7.5cm on fib with lon which will probably cost how much overall?
And what do I do now to make this happen? do i get my passport ready,build up some cash, call the doctor,etc?
You'll regret it for the rest of your life!
No question about it.
LON in femurs puts an insanely large stress to the knees. It will take years to recover from doing 15cm like that.
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sweden, where are your sources for LON for femurs causing unimaginable stress on the knees?
full external for femurs(not LON, just external) would cause a massive probability in contracture. full external femur is a very bad idea.
it has to be LON or full internal for femur.
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ps 15 cm (7.5cm tibia, 7.5cm femur) is the very upper most "reasonably safe" limit.
maby 6 cm tibia and 6 cm femur would be a better idea if your using external for both.
certainly 7.5cm for femur can be reached with internal but for external its better not to go above 5-6 cm.
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I've experienced it first hand. There is no reason for me to lie.
4,5-5cm on tibias maximum.
5,5-6cm on femurs maximum.
If you use externals.
There is one benefit with external femurs: your doctor can check so that your mechanical axis is aligned. That is IF he knows what he's doing.
I know the idea of LON/LATN on femurs sound very good but it's not.
You will most likely recover to a very good point but the road is devastating.
My idea with external femurs is to do 4cm and do lots of exercises and boost your body with all the proper nutrition you possibly know of and hopefully you can be out of frames in 5 months - and then you're done with it. No IMnail, no plate, no nothing.
Femurs heal faster too bc of greater blood flow.
It should be possible.
Knees will get stuck in a bad angle but it recovers with time. It took my knees a full year to recover. Today I can fully kneel, squat, anything. Even better than the average Joe.
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There is no reason for me to lie.
I never said I thought you were lying.
I did however think that you could possibly be incorrect.
you did tibia. LON for tibia is very bad for the knees, which 50% of people experience knee pain from it, and iv been told that anecdotally around 50% of people who get this knee pain get it as a chronic persistent form for a long time. so the end result is that LON tibia could cause chronic knee pain in 25% of cases. at least according to some doctors.
however as stated above we are discussing femurs. which does not have the intramedullary nail go through the knee but through the top of the femur bone.
I have not heard of this (femur, LON) causing knee issues. so I was curious to hear your sources.
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My friend did it 2 feet beside me in my room in India.
It was really devastating for his knee. He did LATP on his other femur bc of the horrific trauma and agony.
The guy shouted in fierce pain when he tried to move his "LON-leg".
Today he says he can run and do everything he wants but still need to do some physio every week.
LON in femurs is a terrible idea.
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statistical analysis for a style of operation needs more than 1 case.
but I gladly accept this case to state that LON femur "could" cause knee pain.
my questions would be.
given that sarin is not an LL specialist. did he place the intramedullary nail in through the knee or hip?
and second did the patient in question already do tibia or was femur his first operation?
and even if this was 1) conducted via the top of the femur, and 2) his first operation.
it is still possible that sarin is not a doctor who we should base our assessment on femur LON for.
but I still hear your statement and will keep it in the back of my mind.
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What the hell? Guys!! You drift of the topic, this doctor sounds good and with him operation may cost you less than 10k euros insanely competitive
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we are discussing this doctor. we are specifically discussing what is the safest method to get done when we use this Russian doctor.
given that he is cheap.
no forum topic is black and white. there is some grey. the things discussed here in this topic are important to learn.
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we are discussing this doctor. we are specifically discussing what is the safest method to get done when we use this Russian doctor.
given that he is cheap.
no forum topic is black and white. there is some grey. the things discussed here in this topic are important to learn.
Oh if then, I think that illizavor on femurs causes major discomfort and I have contacted the doctor and he didn't recommend it cause it is extremely uncomfortable, you cant bear it, safest method is external only for tibias and internals for femurs. Lon/Latn may speed up the frame removal, but they make this surgery more invansive. I think if you want fast recovery do 5cm on tibias, but if you want more height do up to 7 cm no more.
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"Conventional Ilizarov + 3 weeks in the hospital = ~$5.000" i thought that was the price?
And so from what i am hearing it might take longer with external to recover then with lon so if I do lon on both the tib and femur will i then recover faster?
And how long after the surgery before i can start working again if i do LON on femur and external on tib(or LON on tib)?
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Dr Sarin has done several LON on femurs and patients suffered from knee contracture. His last LON on femurs was with my room mate.
Monorails can be used but they are very unstable. I've seen terrible outcome from monorails. Just look at Crazy+6. Most likely he can't even walk as of today. He did 8cm on femurs and 8cm on tibias.
Doing both part with a cheap doctor could ruin your life for many many years.
Getting back to work will take minimum 3 years.
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Dr Sarin has done several LON on femurs and patients suffered from knee contracture. His last LON on femurs was with my room mate.
Monorails can be used but they are very unstable. I've seen terrible outcome from monorails. Just look at Crazy+6. Most likely he can't even walk as of today. He did 8cm on femurs and 8cm on tibias.
Doing both part with a cheap doctor could ruin your life for many many years.
Getting back to work will take minimum 3 years.
How about monorails for 4 cm. I think they may do the work. What you think?
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I think so to. Plenty of people do for non-cosmetic reasons and make full recoveries. Just be extra sure that you're doing it with a competent doctor.
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I think so to. Plenty of people do for non-cosmetic reasons and make full recoveries. Just be extra sure that you're doing it with a competent doctor.
I don't know longer Tibias look better :/
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Okay so how long after the surgery do you have to say in russia?
If you are doing the femur and tib for 15cm how long before i can do things like drive,walk,etc on my own?
What is the Overall cost of this surgery (with external on tib and femur) and hotel cost?
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Okay so how long after the surgery do you have to say in russia?
If you are doing the femur and tib for 15cm how long before i can do things like drive,walk,etc on my own?
What is the Overall cost of this surgery (with external on tib and femur) and hotel cost?
with this Doc external tibia is 3000eu don't know if this goes also with forging patients, the recovery depends on the PT but a big part of it is about the person itself everyone is different, you can mail him and ask about the price I'm willing to go with him, need the money
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with this Doc external tibia is 3000eu don't know if this goes also with forging patients, the recovery depends on the PT but a big part of it is about the person itself everyone is different, you can mail him and ask about the price I'm willing to go with him, need the money
m2 him or dr.bagirov. I think it is a great price....
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It is a great price.. Tempting anyone know if he has contacts with local apartments nearby like Dr Barinov has? Or offer any PT at the hospital during the elongation period? Damn we need a diary from one his of his patients
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Does anybody knows if this doctor uses any scanners for the legs to know the adjustments he should make? Like with dr bagirov
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any news ?
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Dr Parihar said Dr Solomin is coming to Mumbai soon to teach an Ilizarov workshop. He's probably a safe option for those interested in doing this in Russia.
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okay so I am planing ion doing external on tibia for 7 cm and while consolidating I will do lon on femurs for 7 cms how long do you all think this would take?
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okay so I am planing ion doing external on tibia for 7 cm and while consolidating I will do lon on femurs for 7 cms how long do you all think this would take?
Probably 3-4 years before you'll be back to normal 75% as before if ever.
It is a very bad idea what you're planning.
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Hey Sweden what about external tibias 7-8cm then LON femurs 5cm couple years later? I think that's reasonable amount of time of healing in between and small amount of lengthening on femurs would make it doable what do you think?
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Terrible idea.
LON on femurs is never a good idea.
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Terrible idea.
LON on femurs is never a good idea.
sadly, I have to agree, just do external Tibias, with LL you screw your biomechanics anyway..right?
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greek smidget.
I think Sweden was saying that LON on femurs is a bad idea, and by that he meant the method, Sweden's opinion is that internal for femur is good.
I don't think he was stating that all LL for femur is bad, only LON for femur greek smidget.
interestingly even though mechanical axis/anatomical axis should change, it wasn't observed in clinical trials.
so I am still yet to see reasons to why LON femur is the devil. certainly LON is better than cages. and lon femur in clinical studies has a 5% knee contracture rate. so it certainly has risks but those risks are not 30% knee contracture rate as with classic ilisorov cages for femur.
internal is the safest, but 5% knee contracture rate for lon femur is certainly not the devil. its a risk but not a massive risk.
knee contracture is fixed with quadriplasty.
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greek smidget.
I think Sweden was saying that LON on femurs is a bad idea, and by that he meant the method, Sweden's opinion is that internal for femur is good.
I don't think he was stating that all LL for femur is bad, only LON for femur greek smidget.
interestingly even though mechanical axis/anatomical axis should change, it wasn't observed in clinical trials.
so I am still yet to see reasons to why LON femur is the devil. certainly LON is better than cages. and lon femur in clinical studies has a 5% knee contracture rate. so it certainly has risks but those risks are not 30% knee contracture rate as with classic ilisorov cages for femur.
internal is the safest, but 5% knee contracture rate for lon femur is certainly not the devil. its a risk but not a massive risk.
knee contracture is fixed with quadriplasty.
When you use the word LON femur in comparison to Ilizarov femur, do you mean LON with a monorail fixator or with an Ilizarov fixator plus an IM nail inside the femur?
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sadly, I have to agree, just do external Tibias, with LL you screw your biomechanics anyway..right?
Yeah but I'm dead set on lengthening my tibias at least 7cm and that put my tibias and femurs would be to close to the same length
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Yeah but I'm dead set on lengthening my tibias at least 7cm and that put my tibias and femurs would be to close to the same length
SO? its ok! its better than having a long bone 15cm longer than the other ;)
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I was wondering if LON method can be done by dr leonid solomin??
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oops lol my bad sorry.
yes I meant LON femur as in (LON, monorail femur) has a 5% contracture rate.
and classic ilisorov cage with IM nail is what I meant when I typed it,
however I just reviewed the papers and I made a mistake in my statement, 30% contracture rate is for (classic external ilisorov cages) with (no LON).
I will do research now for (classic ilisorov cages external) (with LON) for contracture rate, I used to know but I forgot the figure, I think by memory it was very close to contracture rate of 30%.
here is a thread I made a while ago with some links.
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=893.0
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True but I am dead set on reaching 5'8(I mean in the country where I'll be living that's still considered short) no matter I can do internals just wondered why LON on femurs was such a horrid idea.
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Did anyone spoke to the Dr to confirm the price and period of staying ?
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I talked to him. ~$5000 for surgery and 3 weeks stay
~50$ per day in 4 person room
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what about frame romoval ? and lengthening home ?
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I have been messaging the doctor and was telling him how i want to add 15cm to both legs and he said he does those surgeries by doing this
"If larger lengthening is necessary we use cross-elongation. Sequential
cross-elongation of femurs and lower legs:
1st step: right femur + left lower leg
2nd step: left femur + right lower leg
Cost for the each step: Femur and lower leg frame applying + osteotomy
+ 60 days in four-six bed ward = ~ $9.000." those are his words just wanted to know do you guys think this is a bad way to lengthen?
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Guessing cages would be used for femurs?
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Im assuming thats for externals only? Do you know how much it would cost to stay at the hospital a day?
Could you ask him how much it is and what kind of visa you'd need to stay in Russia?
$9,000 for both segments which includes a 60 day stay in the hospital is a DAMN BARGAIN. That equates to $4,500 a segment which is cheap as chips
If only Exclide started a diary on his experiences because he's the only one so far brave enough to proceed with it and he seems to be in good spirits atm.
Im still undecided on externals femur though, how uncomfortable would it be to have those on your femurs for 9-10months? And how do you go back home to your home country with them on? I would think a patient would have to stay in the hospital for the whole duration?
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Hospital stay is 2200 rubles/day (55$) with one-bed room. You can stay in 5-bed room with everyone else, it's much cheaper. Plus, you only have to stay in hospital for one-two weeks after the surgery, you can then leave and rent an appartment, that will also be cheaper.
I'll start a diary on my second cross-lateral surgery, there's just nothing to write atm, as I'm consolidating.
Like I always said, external femurs are very uncomfortable, right after the surgery your ROM goes down by 90 degrees, as you can't bend your knee due to the pins going through your muscles. And it gets worse while lengthening and doesn't get much better until you remove the fixators. Sitting is also a trouble. Sleeping is hard. So I'd suggest doing LON femurs, so you'll only have to take it for 2-3 months of lengthening.
If I were to start from scratch and wanted to lengthen both of my lower leg segments, I'd get internal femurs and right after I'm done with distraction, do external tibias. But if you don't have the money for internals, you can do LON bilateral femurs instead. Keep in mind that bilateral femurs is twice as hard and uncomfortable, but you should be OK after you lengthen and remove the fixators.
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Hospital stay is 2200 rubles/day (55$) with one-bed room. You can stay in 5-bed room with everyone else, it's much cheaper. Plus, you only have to stay in hospital for one-two weeks after the surgery, you can then leave and rent an appartment, that will also be cheaper.
I'll start a diary on my second cross-lateral surgery, there's just nothing to write atm, as I'm consolidating.
Like I always said, external femurs are very uncomfortable, right after the surgery your ROM goes down by 90 degrees, as you can't bend your knee due to the pins going through your muscles. And it gets worse while lengthening and doesn't get much better until you remove the fixators. Sitting is also a trouble. Sleeping is hard. So I'd suggest doing LON femurs, so you'll only have to take it for 2-3 months of lengthening.
If I were to start from scratch and wanted to lengthen both of my lower leg segments, I'd get internal femurs and right after I'm done with distraction, do external tibias. But if you don't have the money for internals, you can do LON bilateral femurs instead. Keep in mind that bilateral femurs is twice as hard and uncomfortable, but you should be OK after you lengthen and remove the fixators.
crosslateral with Lon on femurs 5+5 and external only Tibias. What about this 50 days to lengthen 5cm on each femur so lets say 2 months lengthening and another 2.5 for tibias. Does it sound good?
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Sounds good Exclide, would love to read your diary once you start your second surgery when ever that maybe ;D
While we're still on the topic, how hard was it to go to the toilet with frames on your femurs? And sitting down, would you need some kind of cushion/pillow under it?
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crosslateral with Lon on femurs 5+5 and external only Tibias. What about this 50 days to lengthen 5cm on each femur so lets say 2 months lengthening and another 2.5 for tibias. Does it sound good?
Yeah. The only problem is that at some point, you'll be left with 3 externals at the same time 2 on just one leg.
when ever that may be
Lol, I hope to remove the fixators in about two months.
how hard was it to go to the toilet with frames on your femurs? And sitting down, would you need some kind of cushion/pillow under it?
It depends on the external composition. My frames didn't go too long up my ass, so I could sit fine on the toilet and also everything else, but you can't sit any deeper obviously. Plus, as one of your legs is almost straight (you can't bend it), it's hard to sit straight.
Overall, cross-lateral LON femurs and external tibias seem like a good idea to me. I probably shouldn't have refused LON. Not sure. I think with LON you need 3 surgeries - first one to place the nail and install the frame, second one to lock the nail at the end of lengthening, and third one to remove the nail. It turned me away. Plus, I really wanted to just lengthen and forget about it everything, didn't want to be reminded by the nail in my bones, that I'm still not done. But I've been too optimistic about my consolidation times.
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Hospital stay is 2200 rubles/day (55$) with one-bed room. You can stay in 5-bed room with everyone else, it's much cheaper. Plus, you only have to stay in hospital for one-two weeks after the surgery, you can then leave and rent an appartment, that will also be cheaper.
I'll start a diary on my second cross-lateral surgery, there's just nothing to write atm, as I'm consolidating.
Like I always said, external femurs are very uncomfortable, right after the surgery your ROM goes down by 90 degrees, as you can't bend your knee due to the pins going through your muscles. And it gets worse while lengthening and doesn't get much better until you remove the fixators. Sitting is also a trouble. Sleeping is hard. So I'd suggest doing LON femurs, so you'll only have to take it for 2-3 months of lengthening.
If I were to start from scratch and wanted to lengthen both of my lower leg segments, I'd get internal femurs and right after I'm done with distraction, do external tibias. But if you don't have the money for internals, you can do LON bilateral femurs instead. Keep in mind that bilateral femurs is twice as hard and uncomfortable, but you should be OK after you lengthen and remove the fixators.
Hey exclide. Where do you get this price of 2200 rubles/55$ a day for a one bedroom? He messaged me and said ~50$ a day but the price is comfirmed at the consultation even though i am not sure what factors would change the price of room. Do you think there is a separate price for international patients? If thats the case ill take it as it is but i would like to kniw the reasoning behind that.
Robinking44 you emailed him. Can you tell me what price he quoted you for daily rate of room?
Its hard to get a clear picture of the total financial cost when the price appears to be so volatile.
Thanks both of you
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I want to do external tibia and length back home
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Its hard to get a clear picture of the total financial cost when the price appears to be so volatile.
I agree.
We need a breakdown of the original prices in rubles. People can then convert them to their own currencies and figure out the total costs by adding the cost of the surgeries to the length of time they expect to spend at the hospital.
External tibias surgeries = ... rubles
External femurs surgeries = ... rubles
LON tibias surgeries = ... rubles
LON femurs surgeries = ... rubles
LATN tibias surgeries = ... rubles
LATN femurs surgeries = ... rubles
Daily rate for staying in a single bedroom = ... rubles
Daily rate for staying in a 6-person ward = ... rubles
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Its hard to get a clear picture of the total financial cost when the price appears to be so volatile.
Thanks both of you
It mostly comes down to conversion rates. If ruble keeps dropping in value, you'll need less and less $. I'm not sure about all the prices, honestly, it costs like nothing, so I don't see a reason counting every ruble or so. Just get extra few thousands and you should be fine. Also you can't really demand fixed numbers from the Dr., he's not in charge for it all and he can only give you an estimate. Prices are also dynamic.
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it would mean a lot to the people planning to go there if you could post the ruble amount.
because not everyone will have more than enough money when they go over and if they are cutting it close financially those few rubles might make all the difference.
my opinion. never underestimate accuracy. and when planning LL from a financial point of view. accuracy is VERY important.
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it would mean a lot to the people planning to go there if you could post the ruble amount.
because not everyone will have more than enough money when they go over and if they are cutting it close financially those few rubles might make all the difference.
my opinion. never underestimate accuracy. and when planning LL from a financial point of view. accuracy is VERY important.
I really wanna know if dr Leonid uses smaller frames like dr bagirov.Exclide do you know?
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I really wanna know if dr Leonid uses smaller frames like dr bagirov.Exclide do you know?
I don't know, mate, just ask him. And keep in mind that there are reasons for not using very small frames, especially for the femurs, as the leg tends to get thicker after lengthening and that may cut blood flow, so you'll need another surgery to replace the frames with bigger ones.
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I really wanna know if dr Leonid uses smaller frames like dr bagirov.Exclide do you know?
The webpage below shows 2 of Dr Leonid's patients, both female. I don't know if those are the frames he uses for LL though...
http://www.rniito.org/clinic8_estetic.html
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The webpage below shows 2 of Dr Leonid's patients, both female. I don't know if those are the frames he uses for LL though...
http://www.rniito.org/clinic8_estetic.html
I think it's for leger x-leg
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I don't know, mate, just ask him. And keep in mind that there are reasons for not using very small frames, especially for the femurs, as the leg tends to get thicker after lengthening and that may cut blood flow, so you'll need another surgery to replace the frames with bigger ones.
I don't mean too narrow, and I am not considering femurs, but thanks mate I will ask him :)
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Great, the doctor seems to be very experienced, and also he replies fast unlike Dr. M... lol
Got an update: LON or LATN option is $8,000 including 3 weeks hospital stay, and the price is the same ;D for international patients.
For mates from US (like me), I asked about the safety concern (due to US-Russia tension...) in St. P; Dr. Solomin is very confident about the safety there.
Also, he works in a federal hospital so he has to serve Russian patients first; thus he usually takes international patients only on Wednesday. In addition there's a big queue for hospitalization, need to message him 2-4 months in advance if you want surgery from him.
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LON or LATN option is $8,000 including 3 weeks hospital stay, Is Halle Berry cheap. Whats the catch?
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The only concern I have is the skinheads... as a mixed I don't know how Russians will think about me ???
I have heard some information saying that Russians are pretty racist toward people who don't look slav white :-[
exclide can you give me some feedback on this? TY
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Great, the doctor seems to be very experienced, and also he replies fast unlike Dr. M... lol
Got an update: LON or LATN option is $8,000 including 3 weeks hospital stay, and the price is the same ;D for international patients.
For mates from US (like me), I asked about the safety concern (due to US-Russia tension...) in St. P; Dr. Solomin is very confident about the safety there.
Also, he works in a federal hospital so he has to serve Russian patients first; thus he usually takes international patients only on Wednesday. In addition there's a big queue for hospitalization, need to message him 2-4 months in advance if you want surgery from him.
Did you ask him about external ?
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The only concern I have is the skinheads... as a mixed I don't know how Russians will think about me ???
I have heard some information saying that Russians are pretty racist toward people who don't look slav white :-[
exclide can you give me some feedback on this? TY
RGKEY was fine, and he is Peruvian!
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Lol. Russian neo-nazi skinhead movement died like 10 years ago. Surely there are still neonazis left, just like in every other country... but they don't dress like skinheads to avoid unnecessary attention. As usual, chances of meeting them are very slim.
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Did you ask him about external ?
External is pretty much just as what everyone said, $5,000 USD including 3 weeks stay; or the cross lengthening plan which is $9,000 including 2 months stay.
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Lol. Russian neo-nazi skinhead movement died like 10 years ago. Surely there are still neonazis left, just like in every other country... but they don't dress like skinheads to avoid unnecessary attention. As usual, chances of meeting them are very slim.
Thanks haha ;D
Seems like I'm outdated lol
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Wow his prices are really tempting, if I could get some kind of medical visa and stay for longer than 6 months then I'll definitely go with him.
$5,000 and $8,000 usd for externals and LON/LATN respectively is so affordable. Makes you think about the greedy pigs out there charging double, triple, 10X the price for the same surgery...
I wonder if he even makes any money out of this if its only $5,000
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He asks us to apply tourist visa, I'm trying to read the visa instruction of Russia now ???
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Just read the Russian visa website for my country and all I want to say is that they make it so damn hard to apply for a visa, geez lol
A tourist visa only grants me no more than 30 days apparently for my country so I guess that rules me out :'(
India it is then
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The only concern I have is the skinheads... as a mixed I don't know how Russians will think about me ???
I have heard some information saying that Russians are pretty racist toward people who don't look slav white :-[
exclide can you give me some feedback on this? TY
LOL
i have been living in Russia for all my life and have never met a skinhead.
the only place where skinheads live is foreigners' imagination, since u r not the first person from other country who worries about skinheads.
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Yeah... I just sent Dr. S an email about this issue... and it seems like his institute doesn't offer invitations
worries me :-[
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I am going to call up the Russian consulate and talk to one of the aides in english about all the stuff American and British candidates need to know about visas and whatnot.
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I read about a LLer on the old forum site that is currently doing lengthening with Dr Bagirov and staying at the hospital over there and he got in trouble regarding his visa.
Apparently he got some sort of business visa which is the one that lets you stay for 6 months.... but for business related, obviously from the title.
He's doing LL, hardly business related unless you count "none of your business" as eligible
Russia makes getting a visa so damn hard hence why I'll probably do it in India now on a medical visa which is so much easier to obtain and less hassle. And its medical so all good
I think you guys need to ask specific questions regarding the visa enquiries and be very clear about it, the other guy got busted and had to sign some paper for the authorities saying he lied about his visa and so on. If you guys havent read it already, head over to old forum and read it before deciding on Russia
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Terrible idea.
LON on femurs is never a good idea.
Sweden did LL with Dr Sarin, a shady Dr.
All of his advice is based on what he observed at this SHADY doctor's practice.
Sweden has the worst X-legs from his tibia LL. a very clear indicator that his doctor was a poor choice.
Give his advice very little weighting. He was one of the patients conned into thinking Dr Sarin was a good enough doctor.
Sweden stop running your mouth and acting like you are an LL expert. You are just a single statistic of a BAD Dr.
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Earlier post was meant to say Dr Barinov, typo.
Damn similar Russian names...
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I have asked him the issue on visa, and he said he really has no way to help... which is sad.
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I didn't realize getting a medical visa for Russia was so difficult. Getting one for India was initially a pain because of the company website, but I got one easy enough that gave me 6 months. Getting an additional 4 month extension just required a doctor note, blood test report, and proof of stay from the hotel.
What exactly does Russia require for medical stay?
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There is no medical visa. You need to have an official invitation. I heard from my friends who do business in Russia that now considering political situation, they especially scrutinize invitations issued for citizens of countries which have been strongly criticizing Russian political actions towards Ukraine in the past year, go figure which countries :( and it is not easy to get a visa for any reasonable period of time to do LL as a citizen of one of those countries. Even if you somehow get an invitation but lie about the purpose of the visa and they find out about it, you will get into big troubles like ShortyMcShort mentioned, which is definitely what you want to be dealing with when you are doing LL.
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Well ain't that a kick in the head.
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I am trying very hard to suppress my laughter .
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Whats funny? I want to laugh too...
;D
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Can you guys stop polluting Dr Solomin thread with visa-related issues? Visa to Russia is nothing specific to Dr Solomin and a lot of people have already established via communication with Dr Solomin that he does not offer any assistance in the process of obtaining visa so there is no point to continue this discussion here and it just pollutes this thread with completely orthogonal matters. Please, use this thread for matters specific to Dr Solomin practice or your personal experience with him and create a separate one, if one doesn't exist already, for visa-related topics. I regularly check doctors section to look for updates about each doctor's practice and i hate when I have to waste my time filtering out tangential discussion going on in those threads. Please, let's respect each other time time and eliminate unnecessary clutter.
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Can you guys stop polluting Dr Solomin thread with visa-related issues? Visa to Russia is nothing specific to Dr Solomin and a lot of people have already established via communication with Dr Solomin that he does not offer any assistance in the process of obtaining visa so there is no point to continue this discussion here and it just pollutes this thread with completely orthogonal matters. Please, use this thread for matters specific to Dr Solomin practice or your personal experience with him and create a separate one, if one doesn't exist already, for visa-related topics. I regularly check doctors section to look for updates about each doctor's practice and i hate when I have to waste my time filtering out tangential discussion going on in those threads. Please, let's respect each other time time and eliminate unnecessary clutter.
That is one hell of a first post for someone who has never been here before. Welcome to the forum.
I agree that we should leave the VISA and all the other head games out of this thread. I know there is a guy who actually went to the doctor and I would like to hear more about his experience.
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For the guy who worries about skinhead in Russia, I think it's safe to say, you're in the clear. But if you're gay, it's a whole different story, Russian hate gay more than anything. They don't even want them to drive.
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True. What about Hispanics? I look white but I'm Cuban but that's definitely crossed my mind because I don't keep up with their relations
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any updates exclide, you seem to be the only patient that has been with this doctor on this forum.
I would like to know if you found a cheaper hotel or apartment to live in.
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any updates exclide, you seem to be the only patient that has been with this doctor on this forum.
I would like to know if you found a cheaper hotel or apartment to live in.
I live in Saint Petersburg, and the clinic is very close to me, so I was never interested in renting. But it shouldn't be hard to find something close to it for like 20k rubles/month, if you exclude language barriers. That's in contrast with about 90k rubles/month (for one-bed room) if you stay in the clinic. You should probably ask the Dr. himself, they may have it figured already.
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oh okay, i know you mentioned the 5 bedroom ward was much cheaper, do you know how much?
I think the best idea would be to do lenghening in the 5 bed ward, then consolidation in an apartment?
I heard during lenghening you can't really walk and so need people to bring in food and such.
What does Solomin say about going home outside of Russia for consolidation, do you have to worry about pin cleaning with his device as well, is it discouraged, what would you say are the risks, i take it there is no pain in consolidation phase?
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oh okay, i know you mentioned the 5 bedroom ward was much cheaper, do you know how much?
I think the best idea would be to do lenghening in the 5 bed ward, then consolidation in an apartment?
I heard during lenghening you can't really walk and so need people to bring in food and such.
What does Solomin say about going home outside of Russia for consolidation, do you have to worry about pin cleaning with his device as well, is it discouraged, what would you say are the risks, i take it there is no pain in consolidation phase?
It's at least twice as cheap, so max 45k/month, not sure about exact price.
Staying to lengthen is a good idea. Consolidate in an apartment - not bad, but it can take a long time. Many people simply leave after distraction (lengthening) phase is complete. The consolidation phase is a passive phase. You don't need much Dr. attention or intervation, an x-ray once in a month or two is more than enough, and you can send that x-ray via email and they will consult you online. However, things can happen. Like, pin site infection and pin breakage, that will require replacement. And that's probably the only reason you want to stay in Russia - just to be extra safe. It's a tough one.
And yes of course you have to clean your pins, in fact they recommend changing dressings every 2 days. It's not a problem though once you get used to it.
Also, you can and should walk during lengthening, but obviously not very long distances. So if you want to get something that is outside, yes, you'd want to pay someone to bring it to you.
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So does anyone know how to fix the visa problem?
Impossible to do this in only one month of stay...
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I heard on this forum that the doctor could extend your visa?
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ah okay so i can get x ray every 4 weeks at my local hospital.
but for pin site infection and pin breakage, what would happen if that does happen, should i go back to russia, or should i go to local doctor in my country.
overall i feel spending 9.5 months in russia sounds like a long task, in my case wanting 6cm, so i hope i can go home in half that time for consolidation.
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okay so one bedroom ward is £1000/month, 5 bedroom around £500/month, i will keep that in mind, so whole thing for me would be £7000 inc. flights, what about the return to russia to get the device removed, is that part of the original price package or £3000 for externals?
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but for pin site infection and pin breakage, what would happen if that does happen, should i go back to russia, or should i go to local doctor in my country.
Pin site infection shouldn't get to that point, where it would require pin removal. Just make sure to keep oral antibiotics at hand and keep a close look at your wounds. But if it happens or should you break one of your pins, they'll probably need to be replaced, unless you're already consolidated to a point, where you don't need that additional stability. And I guess your local Dr. should be able to fix or reinstall the pins if needed - not sure about that.
okay so one bedroom ward is £1000/month, 5 bedroom around £500/month, i will keep that in mind, so whole thing for me would be £7000 inc. flights, what about the return to russia to get the device removed, is that part of the original price package or £3000 for externals?
2-bed room is £500/month. It should be cheaper for 3-bed+ rooms. You pay for the external removal separately, though it shouldn't cost you much. You can also remove them at your local ortho, or even yourself, but I won't recommend.
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this is sounding better and better, has no one ever looked into using local ortho before, because that sounds WAY better, what exactly is the main drawback of that.
i guess i could talk to local doctor about it, and ask if he knows about it and replace pins if necessary, I wonder if any doctors in my area even know about this stuff, im not exactly from london where there will be lots of specialists.
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this is sounding better and better, has no one ever looked into using local ortho before, because that sounds WAY better, what exactly is the main drawback of that.
i guess i could talk to local doctor about it, and ask if he knows about it and replace pins if necessary, I wonder if any doctors in my area even know about this stuff, im not exactly from london where there will be lots of specialists.
No good idea, I told before. Most local surgeons don't know details of possible complicaitons but this doctor seems cheap and ok.
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exclide how would you say the aftercare has been with dr solomin, are you able to contact the doctor easily. does he ever visit.
also if i stay at the hospital for the lengthening time, i take it he will be very reachable because he works there, what about the nurses, painkillers, are they provided.
can they speak at least some english?
I am also deciding between tibia and femur, for 5cm, how much faster would consolodation be in femur in comparison to tibia.
which would you recomend for external, tibia or femur.
for frame removal, i heard mitkoviks device can be removed at home without any surgery at all, apparently you remove it yourself, what about this device? can you remove it without surgery, and if you need surgery, how much would it be.
and what about sending the device back, would the doctor not want it back again.
I'd really like to do consolodation at home, and get frames removed at home.