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[MrHandsome]

Some of you need therapy here. That will help way more with women than other things.

Sure, but why are you obsessing over this? You're 5'8. You don't even live or go through life in the same manner as men 5'5 and under.

Get the plastic surgery if you want it (that helps if done well), but thinking you need things like penile enlargement to date is absolutely crazy.

5'8 is still short where I live objectively and also my penis is average (not enough for women these days given that they can just meet some above average well hung guy).

Also I am the shortest one out of my brothers which bothers me as well.

I know what it is like to be 5'5 or under. It sucks balls honestly. My face is actually above average, but that doesn't cut it these days with women. Anyway I have a lot of work cut out for me, that's for sure.

[myloginacct]

So. You mean that after the surgery which will make me 169 cm(172 maybe with shoe lifts), I will still have confidence problem?

That's why people need to be careful in these threads.

The CLL forums started (from what I've gathered in a few visits to old forum and elsewhere) as mostly men under 165cm looking for something that could help them avoid the heightism and discrimination they faced their entire lives. The influx of people wanting it for vanity came later.

All these posts saying "under 6 feet/183cm you are invisible to women" don't help anyone. A man going from 164cm to 170cm (5'7) will still feel a good amount of difference in his daily life.

People in the 160~170cm range have the most to gain from CLL. Even the lower end will get to 170cm. 170cm+lifts and you won't really be discriminated anymore in your daily life, which is originally what most men in these communities wanted. A lot of posters nowadays seem to be taking the notion that the standards in Dutch/Swedish nightclubs are what apply to daily life, because those places are really the only ones where you can still get called short to your face at 170cm with lifts.

EDIT: Mind you, everyone should try to accept themselves and live happily with their height before risking something like CLL, if they can.

[MrHandsome]

That's why people need to be careful in these threads.

The CLL forums started (from what I've gathered in a few visits to old forum and elsewhere) as mostly men under 165cm looking for something that could help them avoid the heightism and discrimination they faced their entire lives. The influx of people wanting it for vanity came later.

All these posts saying "under 6 feet/183cm you are invisible to women" don't help anyone. A man going from 164cm to 170cm (5'7) will still feel a good amount of difference.

People in the 160~170cm range have the most to gain from CLL. Even the lower end will get to 170cm. 170cm+lifts and you won't really be discriminated anymore in your daily life, which is originally what most men in these communities wanted. A lot of posters nowadays seem to be taking the notion that the standards in Dutch/Swedish nightclubs are what apply to daily life, because those places are really the only ones where you can still get called short to your face at 170cm with lifts.

170cm is wayyy too short for dating these days. You will still get openly discriminated to your face also.

[Tiger9898]

Yes myloginacct,totally agree with you,that is what i am thinking.  People below 165 cm just want to do LL in order to feel okay. I don't believe in comments of people like Mr.handsomeh or someone else.  There is no rule written that people should be above 170-175 in order to date girls. This is just their strange way of thinking that everyone should be above 175 to date girls. LOL😁

[myloginacct]

170cm is wayyy too short for dating these days. You will still get openly discriminated to your face also.

There will always be asxholes. And I did mention lifts.

But trust me, a 170cm man using lifts will get way less "short" comments than anyone at the height many here are starting at. Many of them also live outside of the US, where people tend to be less dxckheaded/care less about all this.

[Tiger9898]

But don't LL+lifts make your legs look  so longer? I am162,5(163 morning height). I am thinking about 6,5 femur (I will be 169) and + 3 cm lifts.  But thing that make me frustrated is to end up having so long legs

[myloginacct]

But don't LL+lifts make your legs look  so longer? I am162,5(163 morning height). I am thinking about 6,5 femur (I will be 169) and + 3 cm lifts.  But thing that make me frustrated is to end up having so long legs

Don't worry about those details. No one in the streets will be scrutinizing your legs like that. People come in all shapes and forms, and CLL is almost unknown. Even us who know about it don't wonder about people with odd proportions that we see in the streets. We just assume that's just how they are.

[Tiger9898]

Thank mate, you really made me feel good)  In this forum, most people just consider themselves as they are expert in LL process and make people feel nervous about their height

[myloginacct]

We have many people who did over 6cm on their femurs, and, in their diaries, they tend to say no one really says anything about it. They seem to mostly only get questions about the scars when the pants come off.

[Tiger9898]

Scars is not a big deal,  even I will have a lot of scars because of external femur. And I think it can be avoided through plastic surgery

[Body Builder]

Scars is not a big deal,  even I will have a lot of scars because of external femur. And I think it can be avoided through plastic surgery

They can't, especially when you use monorails (like you as you'll do external femurs) which leave big scars.
But I don't care about them. They are my medals for the hard LL battle I gave . I only care to be and feel completely normal (normal gait, no back pains and all these) after I finish my second LL, scars is nothing I care about.

[extremis]

Some of you need therapy here. That will help way more with women than other things.

Sure, but why are you obsessing over this? You're 5'8. You don't even live or go through life in the same manner as men 5'5 and under.

Get the plastic surgery if you want it (that helps if done well), but thinking you need things like penile enlargement to date is absolutely crazy.

What a self-righteous, condescending and idiotic statement. "Therapy" will do NOTHING for how other people perceive you as a short man. It may help you feel "less depressed" or whatever about your short height, because therapy is based on brainwashing through suggestion/coping techniques like "cognitive behavioral therapy" (CBT) which is becoming increasingly popular today as a means of addressing anxiety and obsessive compulsive disorders.

It WON'T change anything about how other people, ESPECIALLY women, treat you or short-statured people in general. This is the dumbest thing I've seen you say. Heightism is NOT the victims' faults. How idiotic.

[Tiger9898]

I am sure that they will never bother me. I don't even think about plastic surgery after LL. As u said,they will be my medal))

[myloginacct]

What a self-righteous, condescending and idiotic statement. "Therapy" will do NOTHING for how other people perceive you as a short man. It may help you feel "less depressed" or whatever about your short height, because therapy is based on brainwashing through suggestion/coping techniques like "cognitive behavioral therapy" (CBT) which is becoming increasingly popular today as a means of addressing anxiety and obsessive compulsive disorders.

It WON'T change anything about how other people, ESPECIALLY women, treat you or short-statured people in general. This is the dumbest thing I've seen you say. Heightism is NOT the victims' faults. How idiotic.

I didn't mean to offend anyone. Sorry about that. It's just that most women can smell any obsession about personal insecurities a mile away. It's better to be short, relaxed and secure than short, fidgety/obsessive and insecure. That's one of the quickest ways people can help themselves here regarding women.

[Zeo]

I didn't mean to offend anyone. Sorry about that. It's just that most women can smell any obsession about personal insecurities a mile away. It's better to be short, relaxed and secure than short, fidgety/obsessive and insecure. That's one of the quickest ways people can help themselves here regarding women.

Don't apologize you are 1000% right.

Sadly most people here will never change their minds about their beliefs
At this point I just agree to disagree and to each their own.
It's a waste of energy to try to convince them otherwise, if they want to live their life being obsessed with height then let them.

I appreciate the good intentions though, not all of us have an obsession on this forum

[Body Builder]

I didn't mean to offend anyone. Sorry about that. It's just that most women can smell any obsession about personal insecurities a mile away. It's better to be short, relaxed and secure than short, fidgety/obsessive and insecure. That's one of the quickest ways people can help themselves here regarding women.

If you are short and secure when it comes to women then you live in denial.
I don't know any clever short man who is secure about his height when it comes to dating.
The only ok short guys I know are some ugly weirdos who never had any woman and don't think they'll ever get any and they are ok with that.
I have never seen any smart short man to not think that he has a drawback on dating.

So extremis is completely right. Even if you feel completely ok with yourself the rejections you'll face won't change and, unless you live in denial, you'll stop feel ok with your short stature.
But we have LL which really changes the rules for any shirt man in the world.
Even a very short man can become average with 2 LLs and most of us can become almost tall with 2 LL (some even with one will be excellent like guys about 5.7-8) so there is no reason at all to feel all this bs that women and society give to short men.

Personally I think that my current life is like an experiment of what a slightly less than average height man can do and how that compares to a relatively tall man (that I'll become after my second LL) who has anything in his life, especially when it comes to the opposite gender, much easier.
Yes I am a little sad for the things that I'd have lost about 80k euros (both my LLs will cost about that), some years of my life and some of my athletic skills to have something that other have from their nature but I am very happy that I'd have lived my life with very different circumstances (from hard to easy) and can understand the life of a short, average and almost tall man.
Only a few people in the world have lived something like that so I really want to have a successful second LL and I will ve very grateful for all that I've been through.
Because the experience of life that an LLer has is something that noone else in the world could feel and that makes us different from all the other people in the world regardless of their heights.

LL is a lifechanging gift if things go well, so people don't try to accept the society's rules about short men, try to getaway from them by LL and live a happy life, much happier that a natural born tall person could have lived.