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[maxheight35]

Thank you 

great updates!

[maxheight35]

There’s not that many in the US, and without me naming names you can do a simple google search  and you’ll see who’s available.

The reason they went back to precise is because the stride was recalled due to technical difficulties.

As stated in the original post, I never met Betz. My dealings have been strictly with Becker!

You mentioned you met with top doctors in the US. Can you share who did you meet and what's your impression vs Betz? I imagine they have their reasons for sticking with precise.

[maxheight35]

But yeah man, Becker is a cool guy. Very straight forward and easy to talk to. I felt very comfortable with doing the surgery after meeting with him. And after surgery he’s came by everyday to check up on me and make sure I had everything I needed.

The after-surgery support so far has been great. I’m actually shocked with how much attention you receive after the fact. Makes you feel better emotionally which is VIP.

There’s not that many in the US, and without me naming names you can do a simple google search  and you’ll see who’s available.

The reason they went back to precise is because the stride was recalled due to technical difficulties.

As stated in the original post, I never met Betz. My dealings have been strictly with Becker!

[maxheight35]

I feel like with this surgery you can’t just focus on price but also the quality of the nail. And even then doing the surgery here is more cost effective than most places. Plus the people are really cool as well. I’ve met some other patients here at the hotel / clinic and everyone is really happy with a strong positive mental attitude!

My advice is to schedule a meeting with Becker snd go visit with him and his team. Check out the hotel and physical therapy clinic. You’ll be surprised man!

ty!!

That's really interesting, so it comes out to be cheaper with Betzbone tibias than with Precise 2 tibias in Athens?

Tibia lengthening with PRECISE-2 nails: 42400 Euro

56,300-42400 = 13900

So the surgery itself seems to be about 14k Euros more expensive for Betzbone tibias compared to precise 2 tibias in Athens

But then have to take into account the recovery time / hotel costs in Athens and I'm not sure how the math works out. The montaza handicap room in Athens is like 62 euros per day or something so I'd ballpark the total monthly costs in Athens to be like 2500 Euros per month at least when factoring in other costs. Probably realistically closer to 3000 Euros per month from other misc expenses (transportation and what not). I'm under the impression that for precise 2 tibias you might need like 6 months at least to walk

The other x factor I wonder about is that for betzbone tibias even if you can walk after just 1 month in some cases (?is that right? can walk in 1 month with betzbone tibias or am I mistaken?) if it is a good idea to still stay in Germany to (increases costs to) be closer to Dr. Becker in case something goes wrong, not sure, what do they recommend? I do know it maybe takes like 6 months or something for the bones to consolidate but I'm not sure if that should translate into staying in Germany longer

I do understand that the weight bearing nature of betzbone for tibia probably increases the quality of life alot and that can be hard to put a price on

However, I've also heard from a current precise 2 patient in Athens that if someone is light enough but have big enough bones to use the biggest precise 2 nail, they might end up falling within the weight limits anyway. I was able to get the 13mm nail (different kind of nail though) for my femurs, I sort of wonder if my tibias might also have a large enough diameter 

I don't yet have a good sense for the recovery times, what is your impression of the living costs and recovery times for betzbone tibias vs other options you were considering?

ty!!!!!!

[ten]

Does becker have a website? where can we find more infor about him like education and experience?

[leonazul99]

Does becker have a website? where can we find more infor about him like education and experience?

From my understanding, he is a plastic surgeon that had a hair transplant clinic.  He was trained by Dr. Betz but he himself never formally completed an orthopedic residency program and did not do orthopedic surgeries until he began his tutelage with Betz. But I could be wrong. If I am right, in the US he wouldn’t be allowed to do these surgeries.  He is very nice and attentive though and knows his medicine.

[ten]

From my understanding, he is a plastic surgeon that had a hair transplant clinic.  He was trained by Dr. Betz but he himself never formally completed an orthopedic residency program and did not do orthopedic surgeries until he began his tutelage with Betz. But I could be wrong. If I am right, in the US he wouldn’t be allowed to do these surgeries.

are you serious bro

this did not concern you?

[tallmen]

From my understanding, he is a plastic surgeon that had a hair transplant clinic.  He was trained by Dr. Betz but he himself never formally completed an orthopedic residency program and did not do orthopedic surgeries until he began his tutelage with Betz. But I could be wrong. If I am right, in the US he wouldn’t be allowed to do these surgeries.  He is very nice and attentive though and knows his medicine.

lol I think is some turkish level shiittt.

[Taller90]

From my understanding, he is a plastic surgeon that had a hair transplant clinic.  He was trained by Dr. Betz but he himself never formally completed an orthopedic residency program and did not do orthopedic surgeries until he began his tutelage with Betz. But I could be wrong. If I am right, in the US he wouldn’t be allowed to do these surgeries.  He is very nice and attentive though and knows his medicine.

Sorry man but thats wrong. He is a qualified plastic surgeon + orthopedist and trauma surgeon and in addition he holds the German degree "Facharzt" in those two fields which means that he must have been practicing this expertise for at least 5-6 years in a clinic. I personally live in Germany and the combination of both expertise (plastic surgeon and orthopedist) are very rare. Here you go for his CV https://www.aerzte-am-alten-zollhof.de/dr-med-axel-becker

Therefore, I  don´t think that he would not be allowed practicing in the USA...

[SpeedDialer]

From my understanding, he is a plastic surgeon that had a hair transplant clinic.  He was trained by Dr. Betz but he himself never formally completed an orthopedic residency program and did not do orthopedic surgeries until he began his tutelage with Betz. But I could be wrong. If I am right, in the US he wouldn’t be allowed to do these surgeries.  He is very nice and attentive though and knows his medicine.

Oh so Dr. Becker can do LL surgery, then a hair transplant on someone, then plastic surgery on their face all in one place? I am sort of seeing his strategy, he is making himself an all in one location to make people look better I guess and I can see why he tries to take care of his own appearance, its good for his business

I can't imagine getting plastic surgery on the face yet since I'm still young/don't notice anything yet but I could see how someone wealthy could sort of want to go to him for an all in one solution (especially tibias to be able to walk that fast since its weight bearing and probably less pain than femurs)

I believe that in Athens they recommended waiting at least a 1 month gap between LL surgery and hair transplants (though I would probably recommend do a slightly bigger time gap and to do hair transplant before LL, I felt the hair transplant recovery for FUT at least was uncomfortable especially the first two weeks or so, swelling, wound oozing)

Kinda blows my mind ok so a short guy with a receding hairline and a really big nose bump could walk in to his office and then plan all in one office to get the things done...

[SpeedDialer]

I feel like with this surgery you can’t just focus on price but also the quality of the nail. And even then doing the surgery here is more cost effective than most places. Plus the people are really cool as well. I’ve met some other patients here at the hotel / clinic and everyone is really happy with a strong positive mental attitude!

My advice is to schedule a meeting with Becker snd go visit with him and his team. Check out the hotel and physical therapy clinic. You’ll be surprised man!

Right I mean I have no doubt I would be impressed. In Athens, there is sort of an understanding that the buildings/city/pavement/roads/some other things will be sort of old and damaged and we get our x-rays back as CD's but none of us have CD players (a certain late 1990s or early 2000s vibe, though we do get to see them on a screen at the doctor's office). I have to think that Germany will look alot more modern and be a better experience overall for most people if they are willing to pay a bit more

But I just don't yet know how to weigh:

- betzbone tibias -> much better quality of life probably to be able to walk much faster

versus

precise 2 -> can go in reverse and shorten if there is a problem but you're stuck in a wheelchair for a very long time
- better price

And the other thing I'm not sure about is this: I might want (possibly unnecessarily) to stay near the doctor's area until consolidation is complete (not sure how important that is or not) and everything is fine. But that would incur alot of living costs and I haven't thought about Athens vs Germany for this

And then the other things I'm trying to figure out are:

- why aren't the USA doctors using weight bearing tibia nails?

- what are the physical/medical reasons behind the time Dr. Assayag said that stryde had more non union than expected/is this true of other weight bearing tibia nails like betzbone?

The other x factor is that if you are light enough and also your bones are big enough, I heard from an internal tibia patient in Athens that the biggest precise 2 nail can support more weight than some might expect and it might be OK for very lightweight/thin people

I sort of wonder then if Dr. Becker is an option for fatter people. You can ask ozboy-- I don't look fat, but I am pretty sure that I am the heaviest patient in Athens right now at like 80 kg

I feel like right now for femurs that clicking weight bearing nails are probably are best option until stryde comes back, but for tibias I am not completely sure.

precise vs clicking weight bearing nails seems to be one of the biggest decisions LL patients need to make and I wonder why this isn't talked about more

[RealLostSoul]

Sorry man but thats wrong. He is a qualified plastic surgeon + orthopedist and trauma surgeon and in addition he holds the German degree "Facharzt" in those two fields which means that he must have been practicing this expertise for at least 5-6 years in a clinic. I personally live in Germany and the combination of both expertise (plastic surgeon and orthopedist) are very rare. Here you go for his CV https://www.aerzte-am-alten-zollhof.de/dr-med-axel-becker

Therefore, I  don´t think that he would not be allowed practicing in the USA...

Yea idk how people can seriously think someone can be allowed to do such a surgery in Germany without qualification wtf. for USA you need to have a different medical license obviously (USML) but I don't know why everybody thinks practicing healthcare in the US is the "top" and more advanced than European or whatever. seems like bias to me, especially considering medical training takes as many years in both countries (Germany at least)

I believe that in Athens they recommended waiting at least a 1 month gap between LL surgery and hair transplants (though I would probably recommend do a slightly bigger time gap and to do hair transplant before LL, I felt the hair transplant recovery for FUT at least was uncomfortable especially the first two weeks or so, swelling, wound oozing)
 

having LL + other plastic surgery at the same time is impossible.

[RealLostSoul]

- betzbone tibias -> much better quality of life probably to be able to walk much faster

versus

precise 2 -> can go in reverse and shorten if there is a problem but you're stuck in a wheelchair for a very long time
- better price

And the other thing I'm not sure about is this: I might want (possibly unnecessarily) to stay near the doctor's area until consolidation is complete (not sure how important that is or not) and everything is fine. But that would incur alot of living costs and I haven't thought about Athens vs Germany for this

And then the other things I'm trying to figure out are:

- why aren't the USA doctors using weight bearing tibia nails?

I had similar thoughts before doing it so I can give my personal experience for that one.

- being in a wheelchair is killer. I think both mentally and for physical recovery you can't take it that long. I think for up to 6 cm in femur or so it's doable but if you want more than that you just can't sufficiently stretch, you can't walk, etc. Walking is a very important factor. Right now I could not imagine doing this without walking.
- If you really want this I think Athens is better because Mooswald rehab costs 170€/day if you want to stay longer, so it gets expenisve. Yes it has benefits but it also has downsides. I think most people severely underestimate the mental side of LL. It will be very hard no matter where you'll do it. Personally I found that being back home reliefs me a lot psychologically and gives me more motivation than if I would have stayed. If you take your training, PT, stretching, etc serious, like you should be if you decide to do it I think doing it at home after you got the hang out of it is no problem.

- different philosophies perhaps or the sole bureaucratic reason that they didn't get the weightbearing mechanical nails over and approved in the US.

[Taller90]

And then the other things I'm trying to figure out are:

- why aren't the USA doctors using weight bearing tibia nails?

Its quite easy.... They don´t use it because there is no other weight bearing tibia nail on the market as long as stryde is not coming back.

[RealLostSoul]

Its quite easy.... They don´t use it because there is no other weight bearing tibia nail on the market as long as stryde is not coming back.

Betzbone is weightbearing and gnail potentially too (potentially because i dont know a surgeon who uses it for tibia rn but its possible)Remember we are writing under a diary of tibia LL patient with betzbone and he walks without crutches 1 month post op 

[tallmen]

Right I mean I have no doubt I would be impressed. In Athens, there is sort of an understanding that the buildings/city/pavement/roads/some other things will be sort of old and damaged and we get our x-rays back as CD's but none of us have CD players (a certain late 1990s or early 2000s vibe, though we do get to see them on a screen at the doctor's office). I have to think that Germany will look alot more modern and be a better experience overall for most people if they are willing to pay a bit more

But I just don't yet know how to weigh:

- betzbone tibias -> much better quality of life probably to be able to walk much faster

versus

precise 2 -> can go in reverse and shorten if there is a problem but you're stuck in a wheelchair for a very long time
- better price

And the other thing I'm not sure about is this: I might want (possibly unnecessarily) to stay near the doctor's area until consolidation is complete (not sure how important that is or not) and everything is fine. But that would incur alot of living costs and I haven't thought about Athens vs Germany for this

And then the other things I'm trying to figure out are:

- why aren't the USA doctors using weight bearing tibia nails?

- what are the physical/medical reasons behind the time Dr. Assayag said that stryde had more non union than expected/is this true of other weight bearing tibia nails like betzbone?

The other x factor is that if you are light enough and also your bones are big enough, I heard from an internal tibia patient in Athens that the biggest precise 2 nail can support more weight than some might expect and it might be OK for very lightweight/thin people

I sort of wonder then if Dr. Becker is an option for fatter people. You can ask ozboy-- I don't look fat, but I am pretty sure that I am the heaviest patient in Athens right now at like 80 kg

I feel like right now for femurs that clicking weight bearing nails are probably are best option until stryde comes back, but for tibias I am not completely sure.

precise vs clicking weight bearing nails seems to be one of the biggest decisions LL patients need to make and I wonder why this isn't talked about more

Debiprasad in his latest interview said a new nail precice 4 can come by end of 2023 which will have same weight bearing capacity as stryde.

[SpeedDialer]

Debiprasad in his latest interview said a new nail precice 4 can come by end of 2023 which will have same weight bearing capacity as stryde.

Thank you!!!!!!

Wait precise 4 is coming out? Dr. Giotikas uses precise 2, so does that mean there exists a precise 3 already?

Or is this a windows 10 sort of thing where microsoft skipped from Windows 8 to Windows 10 to distance themselves from the hate that windows 8 got

[hippo60]

There’s not that many in the US, and without me naming names you can do a simple google search  and you’ll see who’s available.

The reason they went back to precise is because the stride was recalled due to technical difficulties.

As stated in the original post, I never met Betz. My dealings have been strictly with Becker!

I'm in the US and reached out to top doctors as well (but only met Rozbruch). I'm just surprised you met with them if you don't want to do precise since it's well known that's what they're doing right now. The main reason you went with Betz is weightbearing? Or there is something else?

[RealLostSoul]

Thank you!!!!!!

Wait precise 4 is coming out? Dr. Giotikas uses precise 2, so does that mean there exists a precise 3 already?

Or is this a windows 10 sort of thing where microsoft skipped from Windows 8 to Windows 10 to distance themselves from the hate that windows 8 got

Precice 3 = stryde….

[maxheight35]

It’s not just about the nail / device. It’s the overall process. Imagine getting surgery by someone who you don’t feel comfortable with. Also, what about after the surgery? You just go straight home and that’s it - Good Luck lengthening, call us if any issues… lol.

Btw guys check my recent stories and the highlight “Therapy Clinic” - this place is SICK.

I'm in the US and reached out to top doctors as well (but only met Rozbruch). I'm just surprised you met with them if you don't want to do precise since it's well known that's what they're doing right now. The main reason you went with Betz is weightbearing? Or there is something else?

[Limbfan2020]

yeah great insta stories!!!!

Did you ask Dr. Becker how many LL surgeries he has already performend?

[Limbfan2020]

It’s not just about the nail / device. It’s the overall process. Imagine getting surgery by someone who you don’t feel comfortable with. Also, what about after the surgery? You just go straight home and that’s it - Good Luck lengthening, call us if any issues… lol.

Btw guys check my recent stories and the highlight “Therapy Clinic” - this place is SICK.

Man, you're living in heaven! What a great place to rest from the surgery! Will you stay there for the next 30 days? Is it included in your inital payment? If not, how much do you have to pay per night? Are there many LL patients at this resort?

[SpeedDialer]

Precice 3 = stryde….

ok

[leonazul99]

Im very happy I’m wrong as he was in the OR with betz doing my surgery.  I don’t think Betz introduced him to me properly. Makes more sense now.  And yes he would be allowed to do this in the US then.

Sorry man but thats wrong. He is a qualified plastic surgeon + orthopedist and trauma surgeon and in addition he holds the German degree "Facharzt" in those two fields which means that he must have been practicing this expertise for at least 5-6 years in a clinic. I personally live in Germany and the combination of both expertise (plastic surgeon and orthopedist) are very rare. Here you go for his CV https://www.aerzte-am-alten-zollhof.de/dr-med-axel-becker

Therefore, I  don´t think that he would not be allowed practicing in the USA...

[ten]

Sorry man but thats wrong. He is a qualified plastic surgeon + orthopedist and trauma surgeon and in addition he holds the German degree "Facharzt" in those two fields which means that he must have been practicing this expertise for at least 5-6 years in a clinic. I personally live in Germany and the combination of both expertise (plastic surgeon and orthopedist) are very rare. Here you go for his CV https://www.aerzte-am-alten-zollhof.de/dr-med-axel-becker

Therefore, I  don´t think that he would not be allowed practicing in the USA...

yes In Germany, specialisation degrees are not offered by universities but at the place of training. It looks like he got his ortho specialisation in Klinikum Offenburg in 2015. what is very weird is why he got into plastic surgery stuff after that. And how did Betz choose him particularly especially 3-4 years ago when he was quite involved in plastic surgery and had just not so many years of experience as an ortho specialist?

And is Becker buying out the institute? Or he is creating his own and just buying the rights to use the Betzbone nail?

[maxheight35]

Thanks man. I don’t know how many surgery’s but I know he’s been training with Betz for the last 3-4 years. Check the X-Rays on the insta, the break is clean and it looks nice.

yeah great insta stories!!!!

Did you ask Dr. Becker how many LL surgeries he has already performend?

[maxheight35]

Yeah it’s amazing. I’m shocked at how ‘luxury’ it is… I thought I was going to be sitting in a hospital for a few weeks with white walls all around wuth a very boring setting. It’s the complete opposite!

The first 2 weeks are included and then I’ll pay the second 2 weeks. My room is only 169 euro per night and you can see on the week 2 highlights how nice it is and how great my view is.

There’s a clinic side restaurant that serves breakfast / lunch / dinner and that’s included in your stay but there’s also the hotel side restaurant and bar. I’ve been eating the breakfast buffet on the hotel side every morning and then switching up the lunch and dinners on the clinic side.

Man, you're living in heaven! What a great place to rest from the surgery! Will you stay there for the next 30 days? Is it included in your inital payment? If not, how much do you have to pay per night? Are there many LL patients at this resort?

[hippo60]

It’s not just about the nail / device. It’s the overall process. Imagine getting surgery by someone who you don’t feel comfortable with. Also, what about after the surgery? You just go straight home and that’s it - Good Luck lengthening, call us if any issues… lol.

Got it, that makes more sense. What is so different with Betz post surgery?

[SpeedDialer]

My room is only 169 euro per night

Great!! Only 169*30=5040 Euros per month

How long does the doctor recommend staying in the room? And how much in total do you plan to spend for the entire thing (surgery, room, food, etc)?

[Limbfan2020]

@maxheight35

So the resort is called "Parkhotel Weiskirchen"? Do you have a perosnal care taker? Do they deliver the breakfast, lunch and dinner to your room?

What are your daily activities there?

[lessthanavg8300]

Really appreciate you documenting the process.  I have surgery with him in January myself.  Would you mind posting the incision wounds?  Really curious about that.  Thanks.