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[epikness]

There's a public korean forum for limb lengthening in a famous website called "NAVER". It's basically Korean Google.
I really like that Dr.Donghoon Lee does not censor anything and tries to be as transparent as possible.
Amongst other things, do note that this is a small percentage of patients. Most patients will NOT post on the cafe unless they have troubles and very very few people(less than 50) have posted any sort of "after surgery" or questions. Therefore, take this with a grain of salt.

There are multiple patients for Dr.Donghoon Lee at the moment. There are not enough rooms for 4 people and they can only stay in solo rooms.
Solo rooms cost alot more and have very small space for the price.

He prefers tibia over femur lengthening like many doctors in Korea. He has had many surgeries the past decade and the volume of patients has gone up.
The 'safe limit' is different for everyone but the limit for tibia is around 6cm. There is no limit for femur but most patients are around 5-6.5cm therefore we can conclude that it is roughly the same limit as tibia.

He has advertised stem cell therapy for bone regeneration, however he only uses it for those who are slow at bone recovery. It is actually proven to work and isn't snake oil suprisingly.

This is his outcome of patients using his cafe
-Able to exercise and extert force like before. Practically same without surgery.(6.5cm/femur PRECICE2). He said that he is the best recovered patient amongst all that he saw including other femur PRECICE2 patients.
-Able to exercise and extert force. Hasn't tried to exercise intensely but he can't see why it wouldn't work.(5.5cm/PRECICE femur)
-Able to exercise and extert force. Has been going to the gym for a while. There are no problems with his legs and it practically doesn't feel any different. Fast movement(very intense running) is slower than before. His speed has gone down slower and his leg stamina has also gone down. It's not painful, he explained as a heavyness on his leg like you would be after walking/running for a long time. Albeit it comes faster than before.(LON tibia 6.3cm)
-Able to exercise and extert force. He has about 90% of his previous ability. Nothing really changed for him and very satisfied with his surgery.(LON 6cm tibia)
-Everything is same as before surgery other than crossing legs and intense exercise. Roughly 85% recovery as stated by her. Still hasn't gotten nail removed, 2 years after initial surgery.(7cm tibia LON/Asian female patient)
-6 years since surgery. Is able to dance/walk/run/heavy lifting. Practically same as before. However, he is unable to run as fast as before. (7cm tibia LON)
-7 years since surgery. Is able to function normally in life and can lift/walk. Unable to run like before and heavy exercise is still too exhausting. He said that if a robber hit him and run, he wouldn't be able to catch up to him. Said that his tibia still does not feel strong. If he gets hit in his tibia, it hurts very much so. One of the worst cases seen in the forums.(7cm tibia LON. 170cm->177cm)
-7 years since surgery. He says that he is infact faster and stronger than his before-surgery state. He loves soccer and plays it everyday, he says that he is even better at it than before surgery. He has been one of the best results for the surgery. Many patients and himself says it is because he did recovery exercises for 14 hours every day and only took breaks while eating and sleeping.(5.7cm LON tibia 166cm->171~172cm)
-Hasn't talked about running but seems to be functioning well. 1.5 year since surgery and hasn't gotten nail removed yet. Last post was asking Dr.Donghoon Lee if he could leg press more than he is doing currently.(80kg/roughly 180 pounds).(6.4cm LON tibia/hasn't gotten nail removed).
-Worst case yet in Dr.Donghoon Lee's cafe. Is unable to function well in society. Cannot move his foot muscles properly(pain and freezes up). It is in a constant state of pain even without moving. He is able to walk but cannot run properly. No problems with his bones but his muscles have been diagnosed as a disease.(Involuntary movement) Dr.Donghoon Lee has been attempting to take care of him and used his name as a reference him to Severence Hospital for a diagnosis. Still has NOT been resolved. It has been 2 years since surgery. Says it started after removing his external fixator and putting the nail in(2nd surgery). He thinks it may have to do with his broken pin that happened in his first surgery. Still has not been solved.(posted less than a month ago)

There are more but most of them are incomplete without updates.(Only posts about the first few months of surgery.)

[BeYourBest]

Very informative. Thank you.

[Astronomy]

Thank for your enthusiastic informative help

[wannagrowtaller]

Very informative. Thank you.

2

[Ghostfish]

Hi epikness

Great information!!  Thank you so much!!

[PAGrb490]

interesting...

why does he prefer tibia over femur? would stryde change this preference i wonder

[Ghostfish]

interesting...

why does he prefer tibia over femur? would stryde change this preference i wonder

Hi PAGrb490

I can read Korean and read a lot of writing in that website.  So I know about it quite bit.  However, I can't say for sure whether he prefers tibia over femur.  But I think in general, Korean people prefer tibia over femur, mainly because longer tibias look better than longer femurs.  At least they think that way.  Another reason is that due to the high price of Precice, most of Korean patients chose LON for tibias which is much cheaper.  In addition, LON patients can walk to a certain degree as compared to Precice.  Obviously, LON is not a good method for femurs.  So as a result, Dr. Lee did more surgery for tibia with LON.  That doesn't necessarily mean he prefers tibias over femurs.  Now Stryde has been just released in Korea.  Let's see how it goes.

[TemakiSushi]

Donghoon forum is very informative
For Anyone interested in CLL it’s good to read

This is the thread regarding involuntary movement, cause unknown

https://m.cafe.naver.com/ArticleRead.nhn?clubid=19267994&articleid=46662&page=7&boardtype=L

[raku]

Just one thing.
Dr. Lee write precice2.3 for years
While paleyinstitution use precice2.2 compared with stryde (If 2.3 insist, it would be used to compared with stryde)

Quote from paley institution
Most patients desire 3 inches (7.5cm) of stature gain and some more than that. The PRECICE 2.2 (developed through collaboration of Ellipse (now NSO) with Dr. Paley) is FDA cleared for use since 2013. The STRYDE (developed through a collaboration between NSO and Dr. Paley) is FDA cleared for use since 2018. The maximum the Precice2.2 and STRYDE can lengthen is 8cm. Patients who want more than this should consider a second lengthening of the other bone (femur first and then tibia second or vice versa). The total height gain with two lengthenings is up to 13cm (8cm in the femurs and 5 cm in the tibias. (8cm is not well tolerated in the lower leg (tibia) and exceeding 5cm can lead to more serious complications such as equinus contracture [ballerina foot]). Most patients will not tolerate more than 5cm in the tibias. Of course the cost of two lengthenings is nearly twice that of one lengthening. Although the Precice can lengthen up to 8cm, not every patient can safely achieve this much even in the femurs. We will only allow lengthening to the tolerance of the patient’s bone and soft tissues. SAFETY first. We will not risk a loss of function to gain one more cm. To get the full 8cm from both femurs and both tibias requires three lengthening surgeries (see option 5 below).

What is the difference between the P2.2 and the STD (STRYDE) nails?
The difference between the two nails is strength due to material, diameter and the design of the nail. The mechanism for lengthening is the same for both nails. The P2.2 is made of titanium, which is a more flexible and brittle metal. It can therefore bend and break more easily. It is fine for unilateral use but requires significant weight bearing restrictions for bilateral use. The STRYDE is made from Stainless Steel, which is stiffer and stronger. The mechanical testing of the STRYDE show that its bending strength to failure (yield strength) is approximately 1.5 times that of P2.2 and that its fatigue strength is nearly two times that of P2.2. (e.g. with the 11.5 nail the fatigue load for the 10.7 P2.2 nails is 118lbs vs. 244 for the 11.5mm STD; the fatigue strength for the 12.5mm nail is 146lbs for P2.2 vs. 320lbs for the 13mm STD nail). Similarly, for torsion loads, the STD is more than twice as strong.

[TemakiSushi]

Stryde has NOT been released yet
Assistant wrote on his forum that Korean FDA May approve it by the end of this year

[raku]

I could find the new clinic price only in Japanese.
Dr Donghoon told me that in Korea, the STRYDE, new version of precise, will not be released this year, could be in the next year.
anyway, his clinic will be the first in the Asia to have the STRYDE.
If you do a surgery this year at his new clinic, the prices is discounted.
His clinic even has a swimming pool for the better rehabilitation, I heard.

The columns show, 90 days, 120 days packages of Precise 2.3, and 120 days package of LON.
the first row with the lowest price is without accommodation and meals.
the second is with accommodation of group of 4 people and meals.
the third is a single room and meals.
the forth is a VIP room and meals.
the lowered prices are only applied this year.

please read my post carefully. Dr. Lee promoted his Precice2.3, which is not exist .
Because in Paley institution you could find Paley use precice2.2 to compare with Stryde
If 2.3 exist, Paley would use precice2.3 to compare with Stryde because P2.3is created after P2.2 definitely if P2.3 exist


The following is Quoted from Paleyinstitution

What is the difference between the P2.2 and the STD (STRYDE) nails?
The difference between the two nails is strength due to material, diameter and the design of the nail. The mechanism for lengthening is the same for both nails. The P2.2 is made of titanium, which is a more flexible and brittle metal. It can therefore bend and break more easily. It is fine for unilateral use but requires significant weight bearing restrictions for bilateral use. The STRYDE is made from Stainless Steel, which is stiffer and stronger. The mechanical testing of the STRYDE show that its bending strength to failure (yield strength) is approximately 1.5 times that of P2.2 and that its fatigue strength is nearly two times that of P2.2. (e.g. with the 11.5 nail the fatigue load for the 10.7 P2.2 nails is 118lbs vs. 244 for the 11.5mm STD; the fatigue strength for the 12.5mm nail is 146lbs for P2.2 vs. 320lbs for the 13mm STD nail). Similarly, for torsion loads, the STD is more than twice as strong.

[Ghostfish]

please read my post carefully. Dr. Lee promoted his Precice2.3, which is not exist .
Because in Paley institution you could find Paley use precice2.2 to compare with Stryde
If 2.3 exist, Paley would use precice2.3 to compare with Stryde because P2.3is created after P2.2 definitely if P2.3 exist

Hi raku

Thanks for your information!  However, I don't quite understand why p2.2 or p2.3 matters.  I am sure that whatever Precice nail Dr. Lee uses is the latest Precice from the company.  Somehow Dr. Lee thinks the version of P nail they have is p2.3, based on their communication with the company.  Whether it is p2.2 or p2.3, they are all Precice. I don't think there is any significant difference between them, if p2.3 ever exists.

[TemakiSushi]

The newest version is indeed 2.3
Nuvasive confirmed
I think Paley’s secretary just hasn’t revised the documents
Nuvasive already revised Stryde too but no document states the number of minor version up
It’s a waste of time to worry such a minor thing

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2017/8032510/

[ghkid2019]

Wow, a crippled Donghoon patient. Never seen this before. Very very interesting.

[SartBimpson]

Wow, a crippled Donghoon patient. Never seen this before. Very very interesting.

Agreed, it would be better if we can be told straight up the % of risk we're signing up for when undergoing LL with different doctors.

That being said, I noticed that most poor results are from people who went past 5cm on tibias.

[Highest]

Agreed, it would be better if we can be told straight up the % of risk we're signing up for when undergoing LL with different doctors.

That being said, I noticed that most poor results are from people who went past 5cm on tibias.

Confirmation bias, I can count on one hand the number of diaries where people did EXACTLY 5cm or less on tibias. Likewise I rarely see poor results from those who did 6cm and under on femurs. Wonder why?

[MakeMeTallAF]

Likewise I rarely see poor results from those who did 6cm and under on femurs. Wonder why?

Generally 5cm and under is pretty safe for femurs. I'm guessing the soft tissues adapt much more easily the less lengthening is done, this is where majority of complications arise is once you go past 5 cm and the soft tissues can't keep up.

[ghkid2019]

Lee does like 90% LON tibia anyways