Limb Lengthening Forum
Limb Lengthening Surgery => Limb Lengthening Patients Experiences => Topic started by: Penguinn on September 07, 2016, 10:57:36 PM
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About me:
I'm an 18 year old male. I'm looking to go from 5'2 to 5'5 in India which is kinda equivalent to going 5'4/5'5 to 5'7/5'8 in the US, a pretty great gain if I can manage all 7.5cms. I'm also going to get to be home throughout the procedure with my family since I'm from Mumbai, around half an hour away from where I'll be operated.
Surgery/doctor:
Doing Precice 2 nails in my femurs with Dr. Mangal Parihar. My surgery's on 20th September, about 12 days to go. I will be the Dr's first Precice 2 patient(slightly unnerving); however he says it won't matter. The total cost for those wondering is around $42,000 or 28 Lakhs(nails + surgery, not counting hotel stay or travel).
I've had 2 consultations with him thus far and will have another to get the exact surgery protocol.
He's not too big on pre-op PT but I've nonetheless been stretching and working out.
(Special thanks to Kilo for bringing the Dr's name to light with his experience and helping me out tons.)
These are the tests I've to do: http://imgur.com/a/tId5F
So far I'm really not scared, just excited. I guess the last week before their surgery is where people start sh*tting bricks. Fasting before my blood test and woke up at 3am out of hunger, couldn't sleep so decided to start this.
Feel free to ask me anything.
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Fasting before my blood test and woke up at 3am out of hunger, couldn't sleep so decided to start this.
That eager huh?
Anyway, good luck with your journey. Don't worry about Parihar, he is recommended by Paley so it means something.
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Very excited for this diary, Penguinn. Hope all goes well for you. One thing that might help you later on during your distraction is to practice having your legs extended for prolonged periods. If you're sitting for a while, have a chair in front of you and sit with your legs straight out and knees locked rather than with them bent touching the floor. You'll want to be able to tolerate not having your knees bent while sitting or sleeping since knee bending complications are common with femur lengthening.
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You are in excellent hands, so you will be fine. Dr Mangal is demanding , especially in the post- protocol, but with dedication it will be ok.
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Good luck Penguinn! I've been waiting for this for quite awhile as well! Hope it all works out man
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Anyway, good luck with your journey. Don't worry about Parihar, he is recommended by Paley so it means something.
Thank you! And I agree. It's just the slight worry of being his first pure internal patient, but it's not something that bothers me much.
Very excited for this diary, Penguinn. Hope all goes well for you. One thing that might help you later on during your distraction is to practice having your legs extended for prolonged periods. If you're sitting for a while, have a chair in front of you and sit with your legs straight out and knees locked rather than with them bent touching the floor. You'll want to be able to tolerate not having your knees bent while sitting or sleeping since knee bending complications are common with femur lengthening.
Thank you, and I'll get on that. That doesn't sound too bad unless the legs have to be absolutely stick-straight.
You are in excellent hands, so you will be fine. Dr Mangal is demanding , especially in the post- protocol, but with dedication it will be ok.
Thank you, he's said even despite lengthening struggles his patients usually come through without regrets. I've read the last cm or so getting to 7.5 can be hell but really don't want to settle.
Good luck Penguinn! I've been waiting for this for quite awhile as well! Hope it all works out man
Thanks :)
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From one fellow Precice II patient to another: Good luck and congrats! Going from 5'2" to 5'5" will be exciting.
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Hard luck bro
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good luck Penguinn! you seem to have the perfect mindset!
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From one fellow Precice II patient to another: Good luck and congrats! Going from 5'2" to 5'5" will be exciting.
Thank you, your diary and insights were very helpful.
Hard luck bro
good luck Penguinn! you seem to have the perfect mindset!
Thanks guys. :)
I think I do too but my needle phobia CRIPPLES me sometimes. Even getting blood work done was so hard for me. :-X
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Hey Penguinn! I've been waiting for this diary to open! All the best bro, stay strong! Will this be your diary or will it be the "Road to LL 2016" diary wherein you introduced the subject?
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Hey Penguinn! I've been waiting for this diary to open! All the best bro, stay strong! Will this be your diary or will it be the "Road to LL 2016" diary wherein you introduced the subject?
Thank you, and this one. That wasn't a real diary. I had that one locked a while ago so it wouldn't be bumped over actual diaries.
My blood work came back and I'm fine, so the surgery is locked in.
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I wish you the best of luck man; I'm very curious to know your journey through this and hope everything turn's out well.
By the way, how in the world did you manage to secure 42k at age 18?
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Best of luck buddy ............ . :) :)
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Best of luck buddy ............ . :) :)
I wish you the best of luck man; I'm very curious to know your journey through this and hope everything turn's out well.
By the way, how in the world did you manage to secure 42k at age 18?
Thanks guys :)
And parents. My dad knew how down I was about my height and nothing else worked so he suggested LL. That's right.. he suggested it to me.
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Good luck Penguinn. I'm wondering how you came to choose Dr Parihar over Dr Shah. Shah is in Mumbai, has used the Precice on a CLL patient, and from what I understand charges less. Not knocking your choice just thinking is there a reason you seem to have not even considered the other doctor in your city?
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Thanks, and I'd read some negative things about Dr. Shah on this forum, and later even more stuff through PMs. However I've promised the person who told me that I'd keep it to myself. Also after the first time I spoke to Parihar and through reading Kilo's diary I didn't think I needed to look further.
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all the best brother :) .. fodd dio ...hope it goes well for u..
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are you doing retrograde or antegrade insertion? are you going to allowed to partially weight bear (depends on the nail size to be used of course)?
from what I've heard from two doctors first hand is that retrograde insertion for femurs is safer than for femurs. Knee pain is supposedly less likely for femur lengthening insertions regardless of insertion point. Retrograde has some advantages too: lesser hip issues, can insert a thicker nail through the knee.
I'm sure your doctor has all this figured out. I was just curious to know.
Internal femurs is a blessing really for leg lengtheners :)
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all the best brother :) .. fodd dio ...hope it goes well for u..
Thank you!
are you doing retrograde or antegrade insertion? are you going to allowed to partially weight bear (depends on the nail size to be used of course)?
from what I've heard from two doctors first hand is that retrograde insertion for femurs is safer than for femurs. Knee pain is supposedly less likely for femur lengthening insertions regardless of insertion point. Retrograde has some advantages too: lesser hip issues, can insert a thicker nail through the knee.
I'm sure your doctor has all this figured out. I was just curious to know.
Internal femurs is a blessing really for leg lengtheners :)
I haven't asked, it's upto the doctor. I'll have a final meeting before my surgery wherein I'll ask this.
I'd ideally prefer the knee because..let's be honest, who wants anything put through their ass...
Looking at my X-Ray he said he'll put the 11mm nail in but supposedly more than one pair of nails is shipped together and the biggest possible fit is inserted. From what I remember from our first meeting long ago, partial weight bearing should be allowed since I'm not overweight.
Oh and a random tip for anyone like me who does NOT want a catheter inserted.. go for general anesthesia. Spinal will mostly get you the catheter because you won't be able to pee for at least a day after.
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Thank you!
I haven't asked, it's upto the doctor. I'll have a final meeting before my surgery wherein I'll ask this.
I'd ideally prefer the knee because..let's be honest, who wants anything put through their ass...
If it will eliminate risk of permanent knee pain i would.
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From what I remember from our first meeting long ago, partial weight bearing should be allowed since I'm not overweight.
Hey Penguinn, what is your weight? Because as far as I know, the Precice 2.2 can take upto 60 kgs. Are you above that?
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Hey Penguinn, what is your weight? Because as far as I know, the Precice 2.2 can take upto 60 kgs. Are you above that?
I'm exactly that. My weight fluctuates between 60 and 61 but I have a decent amount of muscle weight on me :-\
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I'm exactly that. My weight fluctuates between 60 and 61 but I have a decent amount of muscle weight on me :-\
If you would happen to know: Who has an easier time during the whole LL process: Thin people or Fat people?
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If you would happen to know: Who has an easier time during the whole LL process: Thin people or Fat people?
I don't, but I can't see why fat people would have any advantage besides some extra cushioning in the thighs.
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Hahaha! Good luck, finally your turn! 8) You have the same goal as I do :)
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Thank you Unicorn, I'll consider myself lucky if I keep my sense of humour through LL like you did.
Met with Parihar one last time before LL. The nail's going through my hip/ass, he doesn't like putting it through the knee cause it's a joint. He also thinks flexibility is built over years, so a few stretching exercises pre-OP wouldn't do that much. He's probably very demanding of physio during the process though. Chose general anesthesia because I want the catheter in me as less as possible. He says during lengthening, he doesn't encourage sleeping pills or pain killers unless absolutely necessary. Physiotherapy starts the day after surgery. Gotta stay at the hospital for 5 days or so, but he said they let the patient go home post-OP when he feels they're ready instead of an exact date.
My surgery's on the 20th and I'll go there 19th evening unless something on their end changes last minute. A representative from Ellipse(the Precice company) is flying over to be there during the surgery(on my money ::)).
I have all I need to know...just to wait now, I guess. Anytime I feel a little anxious I remind myself my surgery day's the last day I'll be this height, that helps.
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He says during lengthening, he doesn't encourage sleeping pills or pain killers unless absolutely necessary.
Oh , this is my worst fear coming true. But from the diaries over here, I don't think you can really go without any pain meds, can you?
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Some people can't live without painkillers some people barely feel anything.
It depends how pain tolerant you are. You probably won't know before you actually do it.
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He also thinks flexibility is built over years, so a few stretching exercises pre-OP wouldn't do that much.
He's probably very demanding of physio during the process though.
Chose general anesthesia because I want the catheter in me as less as possible.
He says during lengthening, he doesn't encourage sleeping pills or pain killers unless absolutely necessary.
Physiotherapy starts the day after surgery.
Agreed, shld never nail the knee.
I don't think it's possible to lengthen without sleeping pills or painkillers (they DO slow down the bone calcification a bit) but I really don't think it's humanly possible. Everyone in my group on codeine have cried their eyes out, men and women!!!!!!!!!
General anaesthesia is great! Also, they DON'T NEED to insert a catheter in you yet. You should ask them to give you a chance to try pee naturally (even if 1 hour) than insertion because it's more painful and deeper for men. And one of my compadre's had a bleeding penis that freaked him out. So you don't need that extra stress. It's YOUR CHOICE.
Remember, your goal should be easy to reach and he's right, flexibility takes years to train, not months or weeks before a surgery. Even me who's extensions go beyond 180 degrees past my head has been reduced to 130 degrees now. And I can't bend my knees past 90 degrees properly. SUCKS! I'm working on it.
Do abs muscles, will help you control your spine later. And cycle a lot (Guichet makes a do about 3-4x 20-30 min sessions per day). For me, it's the best exercise ever, keep your muscles supple, elongated, warm, blood pumping, heals faster, and pain goes away!!!
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Thank you Unicorn, I'll consider myself lucky if I keep my sense of humour through LL like you did.
Met with Parihar one last time before LL. The nail's going through my hip/ass, he doesn't like putting it through the knee cause it's a joint. He also thinks flexibility is built over years, so a few stretching exercises pre-OP wouldn't do that much. He's probably very demanding of physio during the process though. Chose general anesthesia because I want the catheter in me as less as possible. He says during lengthening, he doesn't encourage sleeping pills or pain killers unless absolutely necessary. Physiotherapy starts the day after surgery. Gotta stay at the hospital for 5 days or so, but he said they let the patient go home post-OP when he feels they're ready instead of an exact date.
My surgery's on the 20th and I'll go there 19th evening unless something on their end changes last minute. A representative from Ellipse(the Precice company) is flying over to be there during the surgery(on my money ::)).
I have all I need to know...just to wait now, I guess. Anytime I feel a little anxious I remind myself my surgery day's the last day I'll be this height, that helps.
The risk of damaging the knee cartilage is too high for nail insertion through the knee. I think going through the hip is better for sure. Are you followups going to be once every 10 - 14 days or are they going to be more frequent, like once a week? Seeing him at least once a week for a while might be a good idea just in case there are any problems with distraction of the nail. It would suck to go 13 days with a nail that isn't extending when you think it is. I take it that he for sure isn't going to do any releases?
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Oh crap, this is my worst fear coming true. But from the diaries over here, I don't think you can really go without any pain meds, can you?
I think you got the wrong idea. He does give painkillers, just not all the time. He says all pain isn't bad and it's necessary to monitor your condition. He will prescribe them if you can't take the pain but at the same time he doesn't want the ordeal to be painless.
General anaesthesia is great! Also, they DON'T NEED to insert a catheter in you yet. You should ask them to give you a chance to try pee naturally (even if 1 hour) than insertion because it's more painful and deeper for men. And one of my compadre's had a bleeding penis that freaked him out. So you don't need that extra stress. It's YOUR CHOICE.
Remember, your goal should be easy to reach and he's right, flexibility takes years to train, not months or weeks before a surgery. Even me who's extensions go beyond 180 degrees past my head has been reduced to 130 degrees now. And I can't bend my knees past 90 degrees properly. SUCKS! I'm working on it.
Do abs muscles, will help you control your spine later. And cycle a lot (Guichet makes a do about 3-4x 20-30 min sessions per day). For me, it's the best exercise ever, keep your muscles supple, elongated, warm, blood pumping, heals faster, and pain goes away!!!
He said during the surgery(I think) the catheter is useful for monitoring urine. I'll be knocked out when it goes in and I'll ask them to take it out before I wake up. That thing gives me nightmares though.
Will do, hopefully I'm able to. And good luck with it :)
Are you followups going to be once every 10 - 14 days or are they going to be more frequent, like once a week? Seeing him at least once a week for a while might be a good idea just in case there are any problems with distraction of the nail. It would suck to go 13 days with a nail that isn't extending when you think it is. I take it that he for sure isn't going to do any releases?
Yup, he said around every 10 days during lengthening and once every couple of weeks during consolidation.
No releases being done.
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All the best Penguinn. This is probably the most anticipated diary in 2016. I wish you a safe and successful surgery and very speedy recovery :)
I'm a little jealous of you because you're starting off shorter than me but would end up taller than me (as per your goal). Lol, But I still want you to achieve your goal and be happy.
Thanks again for sharing your experience with us through this diary.
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All the best Penguinn. This is probably the most anticipated diary in 2016. I wish you a safe and successful surgery and very speedy recovery :)
I'm a little jealous of you because you're starting off shorter than me but would end up taller than me (as per your goal). Lol, But I still want you to achieve your goal and be happy.
Thanks again for sharing your experience with us through this diary.
Thank you! :)
And I won't lol, I'm 157.5 or 158(5'2) and I'll end up at 165.
Whatever, we're still the Wewentfromabsurdlyshorttojustshortandwe'reproudofit club. The Lollipop Guild will miss us.
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Penguinn captain is cool.
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Lol, I'm yet to update my diary but stopped my lengthening at 5 cm due to series of complications. Nothing to worry though, I'm doing better now and I'm so glad I stopped. Good news is that we'll end up at same height, yay!! :)
Yeah, you couldn't have said it better. I did this surgery to not be absurdly short, but not to become a tall sexy super model.
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Fujitora and Penguinn,
As long as a person is not absurdly short, there's no problem.
A girl, or anyone for that matter will consider your height an absence of an advantage rather than a disadvantage.
You guys would have both removed your disadvantage. After you do this, your success with women or at work will be dependent purely on other factors, like your personality, money and dressing/grooming sense.
And my theory is...anyone who is strong enough to do LL.....is strong enough to change the other factors in their life as well.
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Yes, your new height will be a huge improvement almost giving an advantage. The topic of women is secondary, you have to think about transcendental things.
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It's not just women or work, it's just part of what makes you you. And improving a big part of that is great regardless of whether instagram whores want you or not, imo.
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regardless of whether instagram whores want you or not, imo.
People who think like this are generally the most satisfied in life ;D
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Some people just do it to feel better about themselves, especially when they tend to stick out in their environment.
It's not just women or work, it's just part of what makes you you. And improving a big part of that is great regardless of whether instagram whores want you or not, imo.
Good man.
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Hey Penguinn,
how is it going?
what arrangements have you made at home for your post-op state? is it wheelchair accessible? what about using the bathroom? what arrangements have you made for PT?
I get a strange feeling of satisfaction on this forum even when "other" people's height dysphoria is being cured. :)
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I'll be staying with my granny, whose house is 10 minutes away from my own cause it has an elevator. I won't be alone and will have help. Set the TV, PS4 and stuff there. I don't know what exactly you mean by wheelchair accessible. I'll be at Parihar's for around 5 days post-op where they'll teach me to use the walker. That's how I'll go to the washroom. I'm thinking of buying an EMS muscle stimulator that Unicorn mentioned in her diary.
Besides that, I'm nervous but not nearly as nervous as I thought I would be.
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I'll be staying with my granny, whose house is 10 minutes away from my own cause it has an elevator. I won't be alone and will have help. Set the TV, PS4 and stuff there. I don't know what exactly you mean by wheelchair accessible. I'll be at Parihar's for around 5 days post-op where they'll teach me to use the walker. That's how I'll go to the washroom. I'm thinking of buying an EMS muscle stimulator that Unicorn mentioned in her diary.
Besides that, I'm nervous but not nearly as nervous as I thought I would be.
ok good. I thought you might have to use a wheelchair. Partial weight bearing can make your upper body really sore.
what about physio therapy? is there something like an isokinetic center nearby?
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what about physio therapy? is there something like an isokinetic center nearby?
There's a physiotherapy section on the bottom floor of the hospital.
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There's a physiotherapy section on the bottom floor of the hospital.
oh ok. so he has to go there everyday while distracting?
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oh ok. so he has to go there everyday while distracting?
Nope. I think the physiotherapist will come home.
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Yeah physio will come to your room while you're in the hospital and if you're close enough to the hospital for the physio they'll do home visits for a cost (it was $17 per session for me). You can also get free physio at the hospital in their section after your checkup and x ray.
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Yeah physio will come to your room while you're in the hospital and if you're close enough to the hospital for the physio they'll do home visits for a cost (it was $17 per session for me). You can also get free physio at the hospital in their section after your checkup and x ray.
How often does the physiotherapist have to visit you? I know you have to do the exercises everyday, but how often does the physio actually have to be there with you?
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Best of luck. It's mid September now. I'm wondering if you have done your surgery yet. Can't wait for your update.
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Thank you! It's 3am on a Sunday "morning" right now. Monday evening I go to the hospital and stay the night, Tuesday morning(I figure) I get operated upon.
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Good luck. It will be worth in the end. Be patient.
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Thank you, and hell yes it will be.
Do people normally shave their thighs before the surgery? I did mine cause I didn't want anyone there doing it.
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Do people normally shave their thighs before the surgery? I did mine cause I didn't want anyone there doing it.
Doing it at home is probably a good move. If someone in the hospital does it and you end up with red and burning skin because he was too rough or didn't use cream or whatever, that's going to be an added annoyance.
You're going to have enough discomfort already, so avoid any new ones as far as possible.
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Good luck Penguin.I will follow your diary closely.
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Doing it at home is probably a good move. If someone in the hospital does it and you end up with red and burning skin because he was too rough or didn't use cream or whatever, that's going to be an added annoyance.
You're going to have enough discomfort already, so avoid any new ones as far as possible.
Yeah, that's what I figured too.
Good luck Penguin.I will follow your diary closely.
Thank you. I feel surprisingly calm considering it's a day and couple hours away.
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Thank you. I feel surprisingly calm considering it's a day and couple hours away.
Great! Im glad you are doing fine.I would probably freak out lol :D
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Good luck you are in good hands with Parihar.
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Good luck you are in good hands with Parihar.
Thank you, and indeed. That's why I'm calm.
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19th September 2016
At the hospital right now, staying the night. The room is just like Kilo's diary showed, meh. I don't care about this trivial stuff though. A nurse just took my blood pressure. It's 9pm and the surgery is scheduled for 10am tomorrow. Dr. Parihar actually said I could eat right now, just as long as I didn't eat tomorrow morning.(though I won't cause I'm getting anxious and I might throw it up)
If you think I go into too much detail, let me know. Just that a lot of people said they'd closely follow the diary and it'd help some for their future LL. Post-op, I will update whenever I can be bothered.
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Good luck, Penguinn! I will be looking forward to read about your first days post-surgery.
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If you think I go into too much detail, let me know. Just that a lot of people said they'd closely follow the diary and it'd help some for their future LL. Post-op, I will update whenever I can be bothered.
Please go into as much detail as possible You never know what small thing will help anyone of us future LLers.
And stay strong my friend! You're in this for a better long run!
Don't worry about updating constantly. Go easy on yourself, and put yourself first!
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Thanks, Ozy & mtall. I've chosen spinal anesthesia + sedative. General involves a tube being put into your lungs and that's a bit excessive. The catheter will be in me for a while but it has zylocen jelly(or something) which is an anesthetic so it shouldn't hurt much. Just met with the physician who put me at ease.
Basically
Day 1: Surgery, ICU, room
Day 2: Catheter comes out, PT, walking
Day 3: IV comes out
Painkillers given throughout. Or so the physician says.
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all the best Penguinn. Remember, last day being 5'2".
are the people being judgemental because you're doing a cosmetic thing? anyway it doesn't matter. One has to live per his expectations, not someone else's.
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all the best Penguinn. Remember, last day being 5'2".
Hell yeah.
are the people being judgemental because you're doing a cosmetic thing? anyway it doesn't matter. One has to live per his expectations, not someone else's.
The nurse seemed mildly amused but mostly nonchalant. The physician wasn't judgemental at all. One assistant surgeon whose name I forget was friendly and reassuring.
Fun fact, I'm in Room 23, the room Kilo got.
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The nurse seemed mildly amused but mostly nonchalant. The physician wasn't judgemental at all. One assistant surgeon whose name I forget was friendly and reassuring.
Good to know that hospital staff is not putting more stress at you. I don't even imagine the flame i would get from my orthopedic doctor that i would even consider getting this surgery for cosmetic reasons lol.
Keep tight, keeping fingers crossed for you.
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Good to know that hospital staff is not putting more stress at you. I don't even imagine the flame i would get from my orthopedic doctor that i would even consider getting this surgery for cosmetic reasons lol.
Keep tight, keeping fingers crossed for you.
Yeah, my second endocrinologist(not related to this place) kept telling me I was being dumb for considering LL and whatnot. He was 6'3...
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whatever the perceptions of people are, all a patient would want is to be reassured before surgery. Not to be made to suspect his own sanity.
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whatever the perceptions of people are, all a patient would want is to be reassured before surgery. Not to be made to suspect his own sanity.
My second endo wasn't in this (Mangal Anand)hospital. It was another place, months ago and I just ignored it. People here are friendly so I'm glad, plus at least one of my parents will keep visiting cause I live half an hour away. Despite some fear and anxiety not once have I thought I shouldn't do this and no one could convince me of that either.
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Dude - when I was on the surgery bed, right after the surgery was over, one of the guy from surgeon team made fun of me saying - "Choti biwi dhoond lo, khush raho, kyun karvaya ye sab", which means "Go find a short wife and be happy with her, why are you doing all this". I know you're strong willed to ignore such people, so just stay calm and excited :)... Good luck :)
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Dude - when I was on the surgery bed, right after the surgery was over, one of the guy from surgeon team made fun of me saying - "Choti biwi dhoond lo, khush raho, kyun karvaya ye sab", which means "Go find a short wife and be happy with her, why are you doing all this". I know you're strong willed to ignore such people, so just stay calm and excited :)... Good luck :)
That would've pissed most of us the hell off. And thanks.
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Most of the nurses at Mangal Anand were really kind, and some were really cute too. Most just seemed confused as to what I was really there for since it's rare anybody has a frame on both legs. Btw, have you met Sister Molly yet? Wonder if she's still there.
One thing I miss is the tea they serve at the hospital in the mornings. I don't know what they put in it but it's delicious.
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Dude - when I was on the surgery bed, right after the surgery was over, one of the guy from surgeon team made fun of me saying - "Choti biwi dhoond lo, khush raho, kyun karvaya ye sab", which means "Go find a short wife and be happy with her, why are you doing all this". I know you're strong willed to ignore such people, so just stay calm and excited :)... Good luck :)
I hate people which talk like that. Tons of people do that to improve their self esteem, fight bdd etc.
And funny thing to be honest, when i was like 15-16 yo one of the girls from my class(she was quite pretty) had a crush on me and she was 2 inches taller than me.
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Goodluck keep us posted :)
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Goodluck keep us posted :)
Thank you, I will.
Most of the nurses at Mangal Anand were really kind, and some were really cute too. Most just seemed confused as to what I was really there for since it's rare anybody has a frame on both legs. Btw, have you met Sister Molly yet? Wonder if she's still there.
One thing I miss is the tea they serve at the hospital in the mornings. I don't know what they put in it but it's delicious.
I've met one nurse but I don't know if that's her.
Also I wanted to PM you this but I reached my limit...when they put spinal anesthesia in you, does the sedative come through there or the IV? Fujitora says it makes you drowsy/lucid dreaming state which I don't mind at all, long as I'm not wide awake. I was confused about that reading your diary.
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Thank you, I will.
I've met one nurse but I don't know if that's her.
Also I wanted to PM you this but I reached my limit...when they put spinal anesthesia in you, does the sedative come through there or the IV? Fujitora says it makes you drowsy/lucid dreaming state which I don't mind at all, long as I'm not wide awake. I was confused about that reading your diary.
I think it's from the spinal anesthesia but I'm not sure. I didn't sleep at all the night before due to anxiety so I was really tired by the time I got in there and knocked out really fast. Plus Dr Parihar started playing classical music before the surgery started and I think it made me want to sleep even faster.
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6 3", :o, at that height people dont give a peanut about it, in Netherlands they dont even care. Is good that all the staff in the hospital is really kind and good people, you will enjoy this process, no doubt.
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Dude - when I was on the surgery bed, right after the surgery was over, one of the guy from surgeon team made fun of me saying - "Choti biwi dhoond lo, khush raho, kyun karvaya ye sab", which means "Go find a short wife and be happy with her, why are you doing all this". I know you're strong willed to ignore such people, so just stay calm and excited :)... Good luck :)
REMEMBER, sticks and stones cannot REBREAK your bones!!!!!!! You're a tough super hero now! Part of a very exclusive mutant club!
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Surgery went well. :) Will update other stuff at a later date
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Surgery went well. :) Will update other stuff at a later date
I knew you'd make it! :D
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Congrats man.
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Congrats, Penguinn, you are doing it very well.
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20th September(Day 1)
I was taken in at 10am. The IV wasn't bad and the anesthetist was a friendly guy who put me at ease. Spinal anesthesia isn't fun at all. Turns out during my surgey, they had to give general as well because my surgery was prolonged. One Precice 2 nail did not respond to its machine and another had to be put in its place.
I woke up at 8pm or so(yup that long, Parihar is a total perfectionist) in the ICU. The catheter does not hurt at all. Yay. Throughout the night, one of two nurses helped give me injections(one for when I felt like vomiting and one antibiotic) in the IV. Then I actually did vomit..felt good.
Day 2(ongoing)
Physiotherapists showed me the ropes in the morning. It's not that bad. Followed by a brief meeting from the man itself. My pain is at a 5 or so but I still have not tried walking. Will be moved to the room tomorrow. Had 3 glasses of coconut water and my blood taken.
The hospital is meh but the staff is great.
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Hopefully you dont feel that pain doingitforme had of feeling the fut and burn of it.
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Shame that one nail was faulty, maybe first patient bad luck?
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Probably hah. Once the catheter, epidural and IV come out tomorrow, I'll be better.
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Also a bit at the WTF Have I Done moment.
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Yeah Parihar is very dedicated, but its good that all is good.
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Day 3
Big difference between yesterday and today. Yesterday I was plugged to a ton of sh*t, uncomfortable and regretting LL. Today they took out the epidural, IV, catheter and changed the heavy dressings to light ones. I am now the master of my own bladder..FU catheter. I was changed into shorts and a tee. Will eat McDonalds, be taken for X Rays(on a stretcher) and then put in Room 23 where I first checked in Monday night. I'm a bit afraid of eating though I was told to eat normally from yesterday cause I really don't wanna poop like this.
The Precice nails/my thighs itself did not hurt that bad. Yesterday I'd say the pain in my legs while sitting still was 5/10. Today it is a 2-3 that jumps to 5 rarely. Very tolerable while sitting.. kind of like your legs after working out at the gym after a long time.
PT is a bit stressful but I actually like it. It's not excrutiating(so far) and does help. 2-3 times a day. Parihar says I'll be here for like 4 more days(he said 5 days yesterday so I assume.) In his words "This isn't America. I will let you go when I feel you are ready."
I respect the hell out of you externals patients. The hell you must have been through.
Oh, and lengthening only starts Day 10. :/
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my best wishes!!! Keep on pushing
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So, did you have the tube inside you since you were given general as well?
And why only Day 10?
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Thanks, yagen.
@mtall Yeah. My throat was sore when I woke thanks to general anesthesia. Apparently the sedative wasn't enough and I kept asking to be put to sleep.
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great to hear from you man! can you post pics? :D :D would love to see what you're going through!
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I'll post X-rays when I get them. After the random bouts of toxicity in the forum, I don't wanna post my pictures.
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sure, I understand.
but what episodes of toxicity are you talking about? Apo's music video?
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You're right, Penguinn. There are one too many toxic users on this forum. Posting X rays will be more than enough.
But I'm glad the forum is still serving its purpose of informing & supporting present and future LLers. Every place on Earth has its share of sh*t, and we do too.
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Not just one thing. I'll post enough necessary info like x-rays and I'll try to help patients out...but my privacy is important to me.
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Happy to read everything went well, Penguinn :)
Your diary confirms that almost every LL patient goes through one terrible night (usually night 2-3 after surgery) in which he asks himself "WTF have i done to myself?"Luckily, things improve after that!
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Day 3
Big difference between yesterday and today. Yesterday I was plugged to a ton of sh*t, uncomfortable and regretting LL. Today they took out the epidural, IV, catheter and changed the heavy dressings to light ones. I am now the master of my own bladder..FU catheter. I was changed into shorts and a tee. Will eat McDonalds, be taken for X Rays(on a stretcher) and then put in Room 23 where I first checked in Monday night. I'm a bit afraid of eating though I was told to eat normally from yesterday cause I really don't wanna poop like this.
The Precice nails/my thighs itself did not hurt that bad. Yesterday I'd say the pain in my legs while sitting still was 5/10. Today it is a 2-3 that jumps to 5 rarely. Very tolerable while sitting.. kind of like your legs after working out at the gym after a long time.
PT is a bit stressful but I actually like it. It's not excrutiating(so far) and does help. 2-3 times a day. Parihar says I'll be here for like 4 more days(he said 5 days yesterday so I assume.) In his words "This isn't America. I will let you go when I feel you are ready."
I respect the hell out of you externals patients. The hell you must have been through.
Oh, and lengthening only starts Day 10. :/
That's good everything is manageable for you so far. What does your family think about what they've seen you go through these past few days? Who comes in to do your physiotherapy now?
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Surgery took 10 hours so they, especially mom were worried sick. All good now.
3 PTs...forgot all their names. Dark skinned guy who is the seniormost PT and has worked here more than a decade, fair short woman and a woman that has worked here less than a month. Amazing how the last cute chick got my bend from 45 to 60.
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Also Dr. Parihar saw my x-rays, they checked out and said we will start lengthening on the 7th day post op. Man, I cannot wait.
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Surgery took 10 hours so they, especially mom were worried sick. All good now.
3 PTs...forgot all their names. Dark skinned guy who is the seniormost PT and has worked here more than a decade, fair short woman and a woman that has worked here less than a month. Amazing how the last cute chick got my bend from 45 to 60.
Glad they're at ease.
The first PT sounds like Mr Chaudhary. Have you worked out yet whether a PT will do home visits or will you do the PT on your own with family to assist you in getting a better stretch in? Oh and did you ever meet the representative from Ellipse considering you paid for him to be there? Or did he only arrive after you were knocked out and left before you got to see him?
Also Dr. Parihar saw my x-rays, they checked out and said we will start lengthening on the 7th day post op. Man, I cannot wait.
That's great! And one of the best parts about you doing internals is that you don't have to spend two hours a day cleaning pin sites and changing bloody/scabby dressings.
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10 hours? Damn...
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Glad they're at ease.
The first PT sounds like Mr Chaudhary. Have you worked out yet whether a PT will do home visits or will you do the PT on your own with family to assist you in getting a better stretch in? Oh and did you ever meet the representative from Ellipse considering you paid for him to be there? Or did he only arrive after you were knocked out and left before you got to see him?
That's great! And one of the best parts about you doing internals is that you don't have to spend two hours a day cleaning pin sites and changing bloody/scabby dressings.
Yep, it's Mr. Chaudhary. The third PT refuses home visits and travelling to my home in the evening is ideal for the dude, so it will be Mr. Chaudhary if we can get him.
I did not once meet with the representative. Came when I was knocked out, gone before I came to. How did you guess? Is this a regular thing? Maybe he's Santa.
Yeah, I asked about how I was doing compared to Ilizarov patients and the nurses told me about the pin sites. I have some newfound respect for people doing Ilizarov, especially alone in another country.
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10 hours? Damn...
From the time I went in to when I came out. Although most faulty nails(0.3% I hear) happen due to the surgeon hitting it in too hard, Parihar did a textbook perfect procedure and it still happened. I'm a real statistic, huh?
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From the time I went in to when I came out. Although most faulty nails(0.3% I hear) happen due to the surgeon hitting it in too hard, Parihar did a textbook perfect procedure and it still happened. I'm a real statistic, huh?
I believe Dr Birkholtz experienced a faulty nail, too.
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Congratulations Penguinn. I knew you would do it and be OK!
How do you know that Parihar did a textbook perfect procedure? Did he say that? Monegal says all his surgeries are perfect and they aren't. Some surgeons aren't to be trusted. Parihar seems good but I don't trust LL surgeons anymore.
It's good to know that the rod could be tested in the OR and it failed and it was changed. Monegal said it was one of the main disadvantages of Precice against Fitbone, that it couldn't be tested, but in fact the Fitbone rod has failed sometimes in OR and they did nothing to replace it like in your case and patients had to have new surgeries.
10 hours for 2 legs is good including anaesthesia and recovery room. I know about people who spent 10 hours down there for one leg!
By the way you should have met the Ellipse representative if you paid for it.
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I think the doctor did a textbook procedure, you can be sure because just one nail falied not both, so was a mistake from the company.
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This demonstrates he knows how to do it, but it doesnt' necessarily mean he does only perfect procedures
Im just playing the devil's advocate. Nothing against Parihar! He seems good enough to me and honest!
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Yes, perfect surgeries just Sarin. ;)
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Oh and did you ever meet the representative from Ellipse considering you paid for him to be there? Or did he only arrive after you were knocked out and left before you got to see him?
What is this all about? Is the "assistance" from a representative from Ellipse included in the price when you pay for a Precice surgery?
Monegal blah blah blah Monegal blah blah blah Monegal blah blah blah Monegal blah blah blah Monegal blah blah blah Monegal
Would really appreciate if you stop invading unrelated threads (Penguinn, Unicorn) with your paranoia. Could you limit yourself to scaring Spanish ladies in old forums using google translator, Adviser4ll... I mean, LLuser1?
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Its because of guys like this LLuser that people will not post diaries... Thx
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What is this all about? Is the "assistance" from a representative from Ellipse included in the price when you pay for a Precice surgery?
I believe the representative comes to be in the OT with any surgeon who is implanting the Precice nail for the first time, and any subsequent implants of the Precice nail will not require the representative to be there. I could be wrong though.
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Congratulations Penguinn. I knew you would do it and be OK!
How do you know that Parihar did a textbook perfect procedure? Did he say that? Monegal says all his surgeries are perfect and they aren't. Some surgeons aren't to be trusted. Parihar seems good but I don't trust LL surgeons anymore.
It's good to know that the rod could be tested in the OR and it failed and it was changed. Monegal said it was one of the main disadvantages of Precice against Fitbone, that it couldn't be tested, but in fact the Fitbone rod has failed sometimes in OR and they did nothing to replace it like in your case and patients had to have new surgeries.
10 hours for 2 legs is good including anaesthesia and recovery room. I know about people who spent 10 hours down there for one leg!
By the way you should have met the Ellipse representative if you paid for it.
The Ellipse representative is proof that it was the rod itself that failed. Dr. P simply let me know that usually the rod failing would be the surgeon's fault, but it wasn't.
Didn't want to meet the representative pre op. Was anxioue about my LL.
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Maybe it got damaged when shipped or something? Who knows.
Also Dr. Parihar saw my x-rays, they checked out and said we will start lengthening on the 7th day post op. Man, I cannot wait.
Hope you won't get big lengthening pain.
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Nope, they are shipped in pristine condition. It wasn't responding to the magnet.
And thanks!
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Bad luck with the nail then
I hope you have good luck from now
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Thanks. It doesn't seem to have affected me or I just recover fast.
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Thanks. It doesn't seem to have affected me or I just recover fast.
You are very young,im sure it will help you alot about recovery.
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You'd think it'd be wise to check the mechanism prior to insertion of the nail. The only thing I can see prohibiting this is perhaps it is unsanitary to do so.
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You'd think it'd be wise to check the mechanism prior to insertion of the nail. The only thing I can see prohibiting this is perhaps it is unsanitary to do so.
That, or it has to go in exactly a certain way.
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Don't understand why I can't sleep. Usually I only sleep for 1.5 hours at night, and randomly for 1.5 hours during an exhausted part of the day. The pain is very bearable while sitting still...yet at night I get a fresh pain patch and a pill..I should be out like a baby. Might ask for sleeping pills tomorrow but really don't want to.
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Lack of sleep is going to be one of the worst things about lengthening. Sleeping pills didn't help me too much.
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Lack of sleep is going to be one of the worst things about lengthening. Sleeping pills didn't help me too much.
This lack of sleep only lasts as long as the lengthening phase, right? It doesn't spill into the consolidation phase, or does it?
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I had sleeping issues too during the first 2 months and it was terrible - could only sleep for 3 hours per day. Then I met with a psychiatrist to provide medication for sleep. I'm sharing his prescription, hope this is helpful -
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I'm providing you with the points of sleep hygiene.
Sleep Hygiene:-
1. Sleep schedule: fixed time to sleep and to get up from bed.
2. Use bed only for sleeping.
3. Between dinner and going to bed, at least 1-1.5 hrs gap.
4. Light dinner, avoid tea/coffee at night before sleep, avoid plenty of water before sleeping.
5. Avoid alcohol/ smoke before sleeping.
6. Ambient environment for sleep: low noise, adequate temperature, turn off lights/ mobile/tv/ laptops before sleeping.
7. Before sleeping a cup of warm milk would help.
8. Reading a light novel before sleeping also helps.
9. Regular exercise and healthy life style also helps.
Besides sleep hygiene, melatonin congener- ramelteon (RAMITAX) also helps in regularising sleep.
It comes in dose of 8 mg. To beginning with you can start with 4mg, take it regularly at a fixed time.
Thank you.
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Day 4
So yesterday(Friday) was rather ok. The physios were hard on me. Dr. P was out of town for a lecture so I didn't meet him. Ordered Dominos. Worst part of the day was having to use the bedpan..let's just say you're not living anyone's dream using that thing. As I said earlier, I didn't sleep all night.
Day 5
After not sleeping all night, I randomly slept at 7am and was woken at 10(UGH!!) by my dad cause the physios wanted me. Physio is hard. Imagine having muscle pulls all over your leg and having to cycle really hard, that might explain some of it. I also hate turning on either side cause that's where the stitches are. They won't tear but the feeling isn't good. Met Dr. P a bit past noon and him & co showed me how to stand for a while putting only 20kgs(capacity is 25kgs per leg) weight on each leg while putting a lot of weight on the walker. Makes the arms and hands sore. Apparently Dr. Parihar e-mailed Dr. Paley to ask about the weightbearing.
Note: Even though I've been told it's 20kgs, it was said that I should practice 20 so if I ever accidentally go to 25, I'll be fine. I'm guessing they're being extra safe and the real amount is 30kgs but obviously I'm listening to their instructions. Since I'm 60kg(30 each side), should the worst happen, I think or rather hope the nails will not snap.
The weight bearing might also depend on the size of the nail. Anyway, if you pre-LLers want my advice, build LOTS of arm strength and don't be fat - for the walker, that is.
So far my days are not painful but rather boring and uncomfortable. Physio is really exhausting and I'll learn to use the walker properly soon. I think by Monday, 6 days post-op, I will be discharged. Two things I can't wait to do are mastering the walker & going home.
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After not sleeping all night, I randomly slept at 7am and was woken at 10(UGH!!) by my dad cause the physios wanted me. Physio is hard. Imagine having muscle pulls all over your leg and having to cycle really hard, that might explain some of it. I also hate turning on either side cause that's where the stitches are. They won't tear but the feeling isn't good. Met Dr. P a bit past noon and him & co showed me how to stand for a while putting only 20kgs(capacity is 25kgs per leg) weight on each leg while putting a lot of weight on the walker. Makes the arms and hands sore. Apparently Dr. Parihar e-mailed Dr. Paley to ask about the weightbearing.
Note: Even though I've been told it's 20kgs, it was said that I should practice 20 so if I ever accidentally go to 25, I'll be fine. I'm guessing they're being extra safe and the real amount is 30kgs but obviously I'm listening to their instructions. Since I'm 60kg(30 each side), should the worst happen, I think or rather hope the nails will not snap.
The weight bearing might also depend on the size of the nail. Anyway, if you pre-LLers want my advice, build LOTS of arm strength and don't be fat - for the walker, that is.
So far my days are not painful but rather boring and uncomfortable. Physio is really exhausting and I'll learn to use the walker properly soon. I think by Monday, 6 days post-op, I will be discharged. Two things I can't wait to do are mastering the walker & going home.
So if I can get to under 50 kg by the time I have my operation, I can just stroll around without a care in the world? ::)
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Also learned to walk via the walker today, just a couple steps but my arm is sore. My upper body strength was never that good despite working on it, and it shows.
So if I can get to under 50 kg by the time I have my operation, I can just stroll around without a care in the world? ::)
They'll probably still make you use the walker for balance but you'll have a super easy time.
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Also learned to walk via the walker today, just a couple steps but my arm is sore.
How painful is the walking? And can you tell us what pain meds they're giving you, how strong they are, and how the doctors and you are generally managing all the pain?
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How painful is the walking? And can you tell us what pain meds they're giving you, how strong they are, and how the doctors and you are generally managing all the pain?
The walking isn't painful, it's very strenuous, at least the first time. The lighter you are and the stronger your arms are, the easier it'll be.
Current pain meds I know of are a pill called Nice and 2 pain relief patches put on my thighs. They are both very mild, but so is the pain. When I'm like this: http://i.imgur.com/JPfUYpA.png just watching a movie or something the pain's like a 2. Occasionally I forget I even have nails in me. If the pain was higher, they'd definitely give you strong pain meds.
Pain is not something you should be worried about. Worry about exhausting(and I guess painful) PT, arms strained after overusing the walker, lack of sleep, lack of function and being very dependent and the first 2 days are pretty nasty.
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Penguinn can you move quadriceps upwards in your leg when you want or it cannot be done( Maybe yes because PT involves that)?
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Just flex my quads or move my knee upwards? Both but not NEARLY like I could pre op.
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contracting the quadriceps, is the thing I wanted to say, is that possible for you now?
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Yes, but my patella can be moved when I've contracted my quads which means the contraction is weak. My quads were pretty ok pre-op and seem to have taken a massive hit.
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Hey penguin,
Not sure how legit this is but there's a study done that says listening to nature sounds promotes faster healing haha. Turn up your audio with some beautiful nature sounds haha.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2872309/
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That's only for mental stress. Could still make for a good relaxing session.
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Congrats on a successful surgery. Do you still have the feeling of "WTF did I do this for?" now after 5 days? You've been trained to walk with a walker, is it still impossible at this stage to to walk with crutches?
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The "WTF is this?" feeling was only for a day or so. I'm way more comfortable than 4-5 days ago. I miss being able to go to the toilet so easily and being a free bird. Most of my little frustrations results from having not started lengthening yet and the PT here being so demanding, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
Crutches are a LOONG ways away.
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Hey Penguinn! Your doing all of us a great service by being Parihar's first precice 2 patient on this forum! Your view of the pain has been very interesting however. Most people on the forum say they average a 3-5 pain constantly with internals, so you doing so well with weaker than average pain meds is very impressive. Why do you think this is the case? Is it because of Parihar's superior technique or that your just mentally stronger? Best wishes on your recovery man <3
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Thanks for sharing, Penguinn. Do you feel too weak by now? And why start stretching only after 10 days?
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@frank: I don't know if Parihar's technique had to do with my low pain. My pain has been manageable since Day 2. The epidural got turned off at 5am that day and I didn't once complain about pain(I'd say it was a 4-5 though, but I never hit that excrutiating phase. I was legit waiting for it lol). My pain tolerance is average at best too, so I really don't know what it is. Maybe it's luck, maybe really painful days are yet to come.
@wololo: My legs feel weaker. My quads are almost non-existant. Upper body is ok, the only strain it has is using the walker anyway.
Stretching started Day 2. It does'nt start Day 10.. lengthening was supposed to, but after seeing my X-Rays, Dr. P preponed it to Day 7. This is because my left leg had to be operated twice which meant even with no errors, the cells get damages more(his words) so he wanted to give it time to heal.
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Did Parihar evaluate you psychologically before limb lengthening? I understand that he will somehow interview you. But I mean, did he check for self-harm scars or any of that sort? I'm quite stable but back in my teenage years I've had some self-harm scars that aren't that visible unless inspected thoroughly.
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Did Parihar evaluate you psychologically before limb lengthening? I understand that he will somehow interview you. But I mean, did he check for self-harm scars or any of that sort? I'm quite stable but back in my teenage years I've had some self-harm scars that aren't that visible unless inspected thoroughly.
I'll PM you about my meeting with him, maybe it will help.
Your self harm scars won't matter lol, just wear a full sleeve or something if you think otherwise. I actually have scars on my left forearm that people mistake for big self harm scars; they're from accidents couple years ago- don't think anyone even noticed them.
I think as long as you have a pretty rational talk, don't expect to lengthen over 9,000cm in one segment and don't expect to become President once you're 3 inches taller, any doctor will grant you LL.
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Day 6[Sunday]
The day went by slow. The bedside camode had some challenges, like sitting on it from my walker was really hard because my knee flexes at 90° with lots of difficulty while sitting and to go from standing to that was tricky. Getting up I needed assistance like someone putting their arms under my shoulders and helping me up cause I was too paranoid I would mess it up and snap my femur or nail. Morning physiotherapy was decent, Dr. Chaudhary is not as harsh as the lady physios. Later that evening one of Dr. P's assistants whose name I forget came over and reminded me to do it on my own in the evening since the physios aren't there Sunday night.
I did one kind of leg raises(lie down, place a folded pillow under one knee and raise that leg as straight and high as possible, hold for 5 seconds and then slowly lower)- 120 repetitions per leg and as a result I've woken up with sore legs Monday morning. Somehow yesterday my right leg was painless while left was a bit sore while sitting around, today my right aches(like 3/10) and left is free. Must be because of how I slept.
I have some questions I'd love answered by LL vets, especially those who did femurs:
How much physio did you guys do at the start? I haven't started lengthening and I'm getting worked; are they playing it safe or is it actually necessary?
Did your knee bend 90° easily while sitting?
How important did you find physio throughout the process on a scale of 1-10?
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Bro, how early did you meet with Parihar? Did you meet him a year before the surgery, or maybe a month before the surgery? If I was planning on having a surgery with Parihar, how many months before should I meet him?
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Bro, how early did you meet with Parihar? Did you meet him a year before the surgery, or maybe a month before the surgery? If I was planning on having a surgery with Parihar, how many months before should I meet him?
I met him thrice, courtesy of a slightly paranoid family. Honestly even 1 meeting should do.
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How many months before the surgery was your first meeting?
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How many months before the surgery was your first meeting?
Exactly a year but that was so I could schedule how to spend the upcoming year depending on whether he agreed to operate on me.
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Hey Penguinn. Nice to hear you're doing fine, not going through any hell.
Do the physiotherapists need to visit you everyday during the lengthening phase or are they just going to teach you the exercises and then you're on your own at home?
How much will they charge per time to come home?
And what's the update on that electronic muscle stimulator that you were talking about?
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Day 6[Sunday]
The day went by slow. The bedside camode had some challenges, like sitting on it from my walker was really hard because my knee flexes at 90° with lots of difficulty while sitting and to go from standing to that was tricky. Getting up I needed assistance like someone putting their arms under my shoulders and helping me up cause I was too paranoid I would mess it up and snap my femur or nail. Morning physiotherapy was decent, Dr. Chaudhary is not as harsh as the lady physios. Later that evening one of Dr. P's assistants whose name I forget came over and reminded me to do it on my own in the evening since the physios aren't there Sunday night.
I did one kind of leg raises(lie down, place a folded pillow under one knee and raise that leg as straight and high as possible, hold for 5 seconds and then slowly lower)- 120 repetitions per leg and as a result I've woken up with sore legs Monday morning. Somehow yesterday my right leg was painless while left was a bit sore while sitting around, today my right aches(like 3/10) and left is free. Must be because of how I slept.
I have some questions I'd love answered by LL vets, especially those who did femurs:
How much physio did you guys do at the start? I haven't started lengthening and I'm getting worked; are they playing it safe or is it actually necessary?
Did your knee bend 90° easily while sitting?
How important did you find physio throughout the process on a scale of 1-10?
Hi. 90° is ok. It depends on each person. In my case i couldnt reach 90 easily after the op. It took me some weeks to get there. But the most important is the extensión. Full extensión.
Physio is important but i think that is much more important the physio that you could do by your self. Cheers
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Hi. 90° is ok. It depends on each person. In my case i couldnt reach 90 easily after the op. It took me some weeks to get there. But the most important is the extensión. Full extensión.
Physio is important but i think that is much more important the physio that you could do by your self. Cheers
The extension on my knees is actually decent but nowhere near pre-OP. Do you mean full extension should happen at this time or eventually as an end result? Also what physio could I do myself? I do leg raises, contractions and sitting knee flexing sometimes.
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I met him thrice, courtesy of a slightly paranoid family. Honestly even 1 meeting should do.
LOL, the last time someone used the word "thrice" was in the year 1867, lol.
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I had full extensión since the begining to the end of my lengthening. It depends on each person. Others had better flexión than me but worse hiperextensión. You need to stretch your quadriceps and femoral. http://team.redolat.com/wp-content/uploads/isquiotibilaes-estiramientos.jpg(http://)
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Update
Nothing much to update about passing my days here, life is slow but surprisingly comfy. When I'm lying down like I am right now, my pain is zero. Sometimes I almost forget I'm a patient, except that my butt is sore from sitting so much and I have to continue sitting exactly on my plums cause I can shift but I can't tilt(cause stitches). Not that the stitches "hurt" either but with all their dressing it can feel like a lego block is pressing against you. Even the pain meds I'm getting right now are pretty much a formality. My pain when I woke up was higher, I remember thinking it was a 3 or 4, like muscle aches all over but it only lasted 15 minutes or so. It could be because I got a glorious 8 hours of sleep. If the pain is like this, almost non-existent throughout the procedure I'll consider myself extremely lucky but I highly doubt that'll be the case. Note that my lengthening begins from tomorrow.
I've been told that while chilling like working on my laptop I should do some exercises from time to time, like flex my quads hard for 10 seconds and release, 10 repetitions per hour. My quad flexion is still weak. Dr. P says physio is like climbing a steep hill that gets plateau'd slowly, but you slide a couple steps down and then you've a long climb up. He also does not encourage walking or weight bearing for my case. Once I'm discharged & lengthening, my days will be spent chilling on the bed on my laptop or something, putting work into physio for around 40 minutes thrice a day, then walking 4 steps for using the bedside camode.
Speaking of, I'm getting discharged tomorrow(it's 11pm, Tuesday right now) and honestly I've been here for more than a week...while the nurses have been really nice, I'm tired of this place and I'm glad to go home and play some League of Legends and watch some HD TV to feel rejuvenated. Exactly a week ago I'd woken up in the ICU realizing surgery was over, feeling bittersweet. Time passes fast.
Tip that may or may not be helpful: If you're booking a hotel room, make sure the bed isn't too short. If your knee has trouble flexing a full 90, and your quads are shot like a lot of patients' are, getting up will be hell. The one where I'll stay has been adjusted to 25" of height through tough foam mattresses.
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It could be because I got a glorious 8 hours of sleep.
so many current LLer's are probably really jealous of you right now haha
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so many current LLer's are probably really jealous of you right now haha
It was the night I forgot to take my pills too. Slept for 6 hours again. It must be because I'm not lengthening yet.
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It was the night I forgot to take my pills too. Slept for 6 hours again. It must be because I'm not lengthening yet.
sleeping pills messed me up more than they helped tbh. just ended up with still no sleep and extra tired during the day. I guess see whatever works for you once you start lengthening. good luck man!
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Penguinn,
If you're finding physiotherapy hard, why don't you just take an extra shot of painkillers just before the physio starts?
Does Dr. Parihar not allow that?
Wouldn't that make the physiotherapy more effective, as you'd be able to do more exercises and more reps?
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Penguinn,
If you're finding physiotherapy hard, why don't you just take an extra shot of painkillers just before the physio starts?
Does Dr. Parihar not allow that?
Wouldn't that make the physiotherapy more effective, as you'd be able to do more exercises and more reps?
In my non-doctor opinion
1) A painkiller before every session(3-4 times a day) is an insane amount of unnecessary painkillers
2) Pain is necessary so you don't do damage to your body while unaware during physio
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In my non-doctor opinion
1) A painkiller before every session(3-4 times a day) is an insane amount of unnecessary painkillers
2) Pain is necessary so you don't do damage to your body while unaware during physio
3-4 times a day is a lot, yeah.
How many sessions per day once lengthening starts? And is the physio going to come home everyday, or only once in a while to give you a new routine of exercises?
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3-4 times a day is a lot, yeah.
How many sessions per day once lengthening starts? And is the physio going to come home everyday, or only once in a while to give you a new routine of exercises?
If you go hard with pain killers the three months during the lengthening, sure you might damage your liver a bit but wouldnt your liver repair itself over time once you finish taking pain meds for consolidating? Like isnt the slight reversible damage worth the pain reduction?
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Recommended 4, each taking 1/2 hour to 45 minutes but 3 is the minimum.
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If you go hard with pain killers the three months during the lengthening, sure you might damage your liver a bit but wouldnt your liver repair itself over time once you finish taking pain meds for consolidating? Like isnt the slight reversible damage worth the pain reduction?
Some liver damage from using painkillers is irreversible.
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Also I doubt your liver just washes out the issues but even if it does, what about your body developing resistance to painkillers? Imagine having excrutiating pain but nothing works cause you took strong pain meds for physio.
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Yes you body can easly "get used to" painkillers.
Even Ketoprofen that i take from time to time can be a problem, both for liver and building up "addiction".
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hey penguinn, thanks so much for posting the diary
-for the pain killers, definitely best to limit it as much as possible but if you're doing oxycodone or an equivalent it's usually prescribed every 4-6 hours so if you're doing it only 3-4x per day (esp if at a reasonable dose like 5mg or so) you'd be in that window; definitely can build up tolerance though so trying to find a balance and reducing intake over several weeks would be huge! over 1-2 weeks though as you go through the worst part you'd be unlikely to cause major damage or develop severe tolerance (though, would depend on the exact dose/med they've given). i'm not sure if they encourage using heat/massage or non-medical therapy but would be good to maximize that and tylenol if possible
-i scanned through the diary but hadn't seen and please forgive me if they're duplicate questions! 1) how flexible were you before the surgery (any pre-op conditioning, able to touch the floor, etc?). 2) i haven't seen other internal diaries, but did dr parihar say if he'd done previous non-publicized cases before you? from what i read it does seem reasonable since the insertion of the nail is a common procedure and he's a total expert in lengthening in general, but just wanted to check!
thanks for any feedback and godspeed, so excited for you!
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Update
Started lengthening Day 9. Funnily I couldn't feel anything while lengthening in my right femur with the Precice 2(Ellipse representative asked if I could feel anything and I said "no") machine, and for the first 0.15mm or so of the left. Then from 0.15mm or so to 0.33mm I felt a funny, sliiight "zzt" feeling in my left femur every 2nd turn/rotation/machine sound. It's pretty cool. Doesn't matter though.
Thanks to the lengthening my discharge was also postponed and I'll leave for home Thursday morning, Day 10.
Also, turns out the hospital's being renovated.
http://imgur.com/Vpbxux5
http://imgur.com/7AA7OWh
Still at no pain without painkillers. Quads are still weak so I'm going to have to put serious work into physio 4 times a day. The physio does make home visits at about Rs. 1200 a session, but he said I shouldn't have to keep paying and will learn to do exercises on my own. He can only come 1 out of 3-4 sessions a day anyway, so I have to do most on my own.
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hey penguinn, thanks so much for posting the diary
-for the pain killers, definitely best to limit it as much as possible but if you're doing oxycodone or an equivalent it's usually prescribed every 4-6 hours so if you're doing it only 3-4x per day (esp if at a reasonable dose like 5mg or so) you'd be in that window; definitely can build up tolerance though so trying to find a balance and reducing intake over several weeks would be huge! over 1-2 weeks though as you go through the worst part you'd be unlikely to cause major damage or develop severe tolerance (though, would depend on the exact dose/med they've given). i'm not sure if they encourage using heat/massage or non-medical therapy but would be good to maximize that and tylenol if possible
-i scanned through the diary but hadn't seen and please forgive me if they're duplicate questions! 1) how flexible were you before the surgery (any pre-op conditioning, able to touch the floor, etc?). 2) i haven't seen other internal diaries, but did dr parihar say if he'd done previous non-publicized cases before you? from what i read it does seem reasonable since the insertion of the nail is a common procedure and he's a total expert in lengthening in general, but just wanted to check!
thanks for any feedback and godspeed, so excited for you!
-I feel no pain besides very minor muscle aches while chilling. I'm not going to take painkillers unless I need to so I get a good effect when I need it. I'm only at 2.33mm of lengthening as of writing this so there's long ways to go before abusing painkillers. ;D
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1) I could touch the entire length of all four fingers and 1/4th of my palm to the floor without bending my knees. My quads were great, I don't know what muscle it is but when I flexed there was like a box there lol. Now it's all gone.
2) He might have done internal nails for accidents because if I remember Cure Surgicals says he does tons of nails. This is his first Precice case. But I agree, he's a pro and I'm not worried(although stuff can go wrong with any doctor). What I do fear is my own laziness cause if I don't do PT properly and get my deflated balloon quads(ok not that bad) back up I'm gonna suffer.
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Funnily I couldn't feel anything while lengthening in my right femur with the Precice 2(Ellipse representative asked if I could feel anything and I said "no") machine, and for the first 0.15mm or so of the left. Then from 0.15mm or so to 0.33mm I felt a funny, sliiight "zzt" feeling in my left femur every 2nd turn/rotation/machine sound.
Happens every time, weird phenomenon. Only while lengthening 0.11 to 0.33 on my left leg I get the "zzt" feeling and sound of the nail.
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Hey pengium, sorry if it has been said previously but how much do you intend to lengthen if your body allows it?
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7.5cms.
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you're great, thanks for the replies -- keep the updates comin! lots of people supporting you!
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Update
Through physio my right leg's gotten back a lot of strength and flexibility but my left is trailing way behind. Lifting it gives me shock-like spasms sometimes cause the small muscles near my quads are weak. The physio says it happens with the dominant leg getting ahead but soon the left should be back on track. No lengthening pains and 0.6cm taller after my lengthening tonight.
My sleep is ok so far, I get around 5-7 hours of sleep sometimes broken by the urge to pee. My right leg's muscles were really sore after waking up but that went away in half an hour. Things are almost painless when I'm relaxing like playing on the laptop.
Getting staples removed on Tuesday, 2 weeks post-op and man that's gonna feel good. I can feel them making the skin tight while doing exercises like side lying leg-raises.
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Update
Through physio my right leg's gotten back a lot of strength and flexibility but my left is trailing way behind. Lifting it gives me shock-like spasms sometimes cause the small muscles near my quads are weak.
Hey Penguinn. GLAD you're doing well.
1. Can you describe these shock spasms are they painful?
2. What's your daily rate of lengthening?
3. How's your appetite?
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Keep going you're doing very well
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Keep going you're doing very well
Hey Penguinn. GLAD you're doing well.
1. Can you describe these shock spasms are they painful?
2. What's your daily rate of lengthening?
3. How's your appetite?
Thanks, and
1. Yup. Like 3 cramps/spasms at once in my thigh area and some little pain travels throughout the leg, leg is hard to control so if there isn't enough support by the physio it gets worse as it comes down. Edit- They mostly happen when I do straight leg raises. I can do leg raises with a pillow under my leg and side leg raises(assisted) but when I try raising the entire leg, thigh part included on my own, oh boy. Funny thing is I did that a lot at Mangal Anand and I've been religiously doing physio so I don't know why it would deteriorate. Thankfully it's temporary, will be fixed over time(his words) and goes as soon as my leg relaxes.
2. 1mm, 0.33mm at 8am, 4pm and 12am give or take 20 minutes.
3. Unchanged.
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Hey Penguinn.. !!
I am an Indian myself like you and am considering LL from Dr. parihar.
Can you tell me why you or Dr. P chose femoral lengthening as opposed to tibia lengthening? Also is cheap accommodation available nearby the hospital where you can stay for the lengthening phase? Would it be difficult to get helpers/maids to stay with you full time?
Also you mentioned that the entire procedure cost you around 28 lakh INR. Would it have been cheaper had you not had to pay for flying in the representatives of Precice?
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Actually it's in the 30s lakhs but I should get the Precice machine deposit back.
I chose it cause it's safer, cleaner, takes shorter and tibias/externals can't go over 6cm. I wanna do 7.5.
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30 lakhs!!!!!! :o, I am really scared about pin site care, so is very logical why you did femurs, it is simply much more comfortable.
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Actually it's in the 30s lakhs but I should get the Precice machine deposit back.
I chose it cause it's safer, cleaner, takes shorter and tibias/externals can't go over 6cm. I wanna do 7.5.
How much is the deposit?
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How much is the deposit?
I think it's around $3000, I could be wrong.
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Hey Penguin how much money are you keeping in reserve in case complications occur?
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Hey Penguin how much money are you keeping in reserve in case complications occur?
Parents paid for my LL so unlimited.
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Parents paid for my LL so unlimited.
Penguin i heard from someone did LL, he said after LL his sexual libido decreased, what about you? i think its a psychological problem not related to LL
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Not really. I just don't have sexual thoughts as often because I'm too preoccupied with LL.
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Not really. I just don't have sexual thoughts as often because I'm too preoccupied with LL.
so you gonna length 7.5 at max, do you have any thought when you gonna walk normally after the lengthening, how many months pre-op you think you will walk normal again
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Yes, I'm going to try my hardest for 7.5. We'll just have to see how consolidation goes once I stop lengthening. Dr. P said getting back to my former self like casual sports would take 9 months since the operation day, but he usually gives a safe, long time frame.
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Yes, I'm going to try my hardest for 7.5. We'll just have to see how consolidation goes once I stop lengthening. Dr. P said getting back to my former self like casual sports would take 9 months since the operation day, but he usually gives a safe, long time frame.
9 months to become almost pre-op is a good news man, but too much to walk normally after 9 months
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He might be walking more or less( without crutches) normally in 5-6 months, am I wrong?
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He might be walking more or less( without crutches) normally in 5-6 months, am I wrong?
Rule of thumb is that consolidation takes 2x the time of lengthening. 75 days(2.5 months) for lengthening = 150 days(5 months) for consolidation, so 7.5 months and some miscellaneous time for being fully recovered post-op.
I do think if all goes well I should walk 5-6 months post-op, but since Dr. P's very careful with weight bearing and walking during healing("A month too late's better than a day too early"), which I agree with after seeing programdude's incident, I might be delayed. I might however, get to switch to crutches very soon after I stop lengthening. We'll see when we get there.
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Rule of thumb is that consolidation takes 2x the time of lengthening. 75 days(2.5 months) for lengthening = 150 days(5 months) for consolidation, so 7.5 months and some miscellaneous time for being fully recovered post-op.
I do think if all goes well I should walk 5-6 months post-op, but since Dr. P's very careful with weight bearing and walking during healing("A month too late's better than a day too early"), which I agree with after seeing programdude's incident, I might be delayed. I might however, get to switch to crutches very soon after I stop lengthening. We'll see when we get there.
You mean 150 days (5 months) post-op or fight months after finishing lenghtning
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Update - 2 weeks post-op
Went to Mangal Anand and got my X-Rays and my staples removed. They confirmed that distraction was indeed happening, phew. I was worried after the Precice nail antics. I have my X-Rays as sheets but taking a picture of them is impossible, if I'm sent the soft copies on my e-mail I'll upload them. The nail looks pretty big and sturdy in my femur. ;D
I'm randomly reminded of a WTF moment I had at Mangal Anand during my stay. Before using the bedside camode I asked the nurse for toilet paper and she said they didn't provide it and offered gauze pieces. Thankfully turned out I had my own roll in a bag(my family's paranoia paying off). Considering they have a bedside camode, urinal, nurses/wardboys to help you use the same it was so absurd to not have such a basic thing. So to those planning on coming, bring your own internet... and toilet paper. Thank me later.
My pain's still minimal although my right leg is way better with strength than my left. I can't for the life of me figure out how anyone, especially non-full weight bearing patients can do LL alone. If you're going to use Precice or something you 100% need a helper. My sleep has been ok, aside from waking up with sore legs sometimes. I actually slept for 8 hours yesterday and would've slept for more had I not been woken up for lengthening. Appetite's mostly unchanged and I haven't lost that much weight, maybe a kg or 2.
You mean 150 days (5 months) post-op or fight months after finishing lenghtning
Lengthening.
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Rule of thumb is that consolidation takes 2x the time of lengthening. 75 days(2.5 months) for lengthening = 150 days(5 months) for consolidation, so 7.5 months and some miscellaneous time for being fully recovered post-op.
I do think if all goes well I should walk 5-6 months post-op, but since Dr. P's very careful with weight bearing and walking during healing("A month too late's better than a day too early"), which I agree with after seeing programdude's incident, I might be delayed. I might however, get to switch to crutches very soon after I stop lengthening. We'll see when we get there.
You think with 4 cm It might be possible 4 months consolidation.
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Rule of thumb is that consolidation takes 2x the time of lengthening. 75 days(2.5 months) for lengthening = 150 days(5 months) for consolidation, so 7.5 months and some miscellaneous time for being fully recovered post-op.
I do think if all goes well I should walk 5-6 months post-op, but since Dr. P's very careful with weight bearing and walking during healing("A month too late's better than a day too early"), which I agree with after seeing programdude's incident, I might be delayed. I might however, get to switch to crutches very soon after I stop lengthening. We'll see when we get there.
so a total of 9 months for fully recovered post-op, what about walking normally and have love with a wife, how many months?
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Not qualified enough to answer these timeframe questions. I'd guess 5-6 months based on past diaries.
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Not qualified enough to answer these timeframe questions. I'd guess 5-6 months based on past diaries.
but is there a different between recovered and walking normally, or both same?
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I think you would be able to walk but a full recovery like runing, jumping, dancing could take 1.5 years or more.
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It will take a year to return to normal walking.
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It will take a year to return to normal walking.
No way
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I agree, it should take a year from the time of surgery to walk exactly as you were before.
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I agree, it should take a year from the time of surgery to walk exactly as you were before.
depend how much you lengthen, 7.5 cm and you can walk 5-9 months at max, if you used Internal
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I agree, it should take a year from the time of surgery to walk exactly as you were before.
do you mean i will be in crutches over a year!!
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sure you'll be off crutches but I am talking about walking normally as if you never got the surgery.
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sure you'll be off crutches but I am talking about walking normally as if you never got the surgery.
you know that i don't want anyone to know my surgery, so after 4-5 months even if i walk without crutches, do you think its clear am like someone injured?
am really jealous of shyshy
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What is the precice machine deposit back?? Because of one faulty nail?
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You think with 4 cm It might be possible 4 months consolidation.
4cm will take 2-3 months only. After 6 months you are fine.
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Update: X-Rays
-Ignore the really thin horizontal stick you'll see lying around sometimes, that was kept on my thigh during X-Rays to help find the exact point for putting the Precice machine on.
September 22nd(2 days post-op)
1mm lengthened at the time of X-Rays
Right leg
http://imgur.com/a/sRpEm
http://imgur.com/a/LvD82
Left leg
http://imgur.com/a/iqBEJ
http://imgur.com/a/LXbFv
October 4th(2 weeks post-op)
7.66mm lengthened at the time of X-Rays
Right leg
http://imgur.com/a/lE7O0
http://imgur.com/a/EpJSa
Left leg
http://imgur.com/a/tXiiB
http://imgur.com/a/dpW5F
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It looks like my right leg's distracted a bit more than my left. Either it only appears like that because of the weird positions I was in during the 'rays, or it actually happened, or my left's callus formation is better making it look like that.
What is the precice machine deposit back?? Because of one faulty nail?
Deposit for the machine is around $3,700.
Not sure what you mean about the nail.
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good going Penguinn!
not sure why you've covered your junk, it's not like it'll show on x-rays :P
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how is your PT going? Do they come home and help you out?
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good going Penguinn!
not sure why you've covered your junk, it's not like it'll show on x-rays :P
Oh it does, trust me. I had no idea my flaccid junior was so muscular.
how is your PT going? Do they come home and help you out?
Mr. Chaudhary comes for the first session of the day. For the second I actually call my gym trainer to help duplicate what I do with the PT. The third I've to do by myself so doing some exercises is hard.
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Nice looking x-rays, Penguinn! There's something cool about seeing x-rays of Dr Parihar's first internal patient.
Have you thought about what you'd do if lengthening became really difficult later down the line? As in, say you have hit 6 cm of distraction and suddenly you run into a big knee bending issue or the Precice starts to have trouble extending due to muscle resistance. Do you think you'd be happy with less than 7.5 cm or would you insist on the full 3 inches?
Btw, has anybody in the hospital asked what happened to you? Since you have no frame on your arm or leg I imagine you'd get a few questions from Dr Parihar's other patients or their relatives. I'd make up a story every time someone different asked me what I was there for. Heck, I even started feeling kind of guilty for being there for CLL when all the other cases were for terrible accidents or congenital deformities. Dr Parihar insisted I shouldn't feel guilty though and made me feel better about my decision.
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Update: X-Rays
-Ignore the really thin horizontal stick you'll see lying around sometimes, that was kept on my thigh during X-Rays to help find the exact point for putting the Precice machine on.
September 22nd(2 days post-op)
1mm lengthened at the time of X-Rays
Right leg
http://imgur.com/a/sRpEm
http://imgur.com/a/LvD82
Left leg
http://imgur.com/a/iqBEJ
http://imgur.com/a/LXbFv
October 4th(2 weeks post-op)
7.66mm lengthened at the time of X-Rays
Right leg
http://imgur.com/a/lE7O0
http://imgur.com/a/EpJSa
Left leg
http://imgur.com/a/tXiiB
http://imgur.com/a/dpW5F
you gained 7.66 mm in two weeks?! why its so slow
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7.6 mm because distraction doesnt start immediately after operation, in the surgery the doctor distract 1 mm but the process itself starts after some days.
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Nice looking x-rays, Penguinn! There's something cool about seeing x-rays of Dr Parihar's first internal patient.
Have you thought about what you'd do if lengthening became really difficult later down the line? As in, say you have hit 6 cm of distraction and suddenly you run into a big knee bending issue or the Precice starts to have trouble extending due to muscle resistance. Do you think you'd be happy with less than 7.5 cm or would you insist on the full 3 inches?
Btw, has anybody in the hospital asked what happened to you? Since you have no frame on your arm or leg I imagine you'd get a few questions from Dr Parihar's other patients or their relatives. I'd make up a story every time someone different asked me what I was there for. Heck, I even started feeling kind of guilty for being there for CLL when all the other cases were for terrible accidents or congenital deformities. Dr Parihar insisted I shouldn't feel guilty though and made me feel better about my decision.
Thanks, and I insist on at least 7cms if things get tough but I'm going to scrape for 7.5. Dr. Parihar's said 7.5 is a reasonable goal and there are ways to get to it even through problems, even though he thinks 6cms is the point where you'll be 100% okay. I don't mind being 95% okay. Unless it'll give me a serious lifelong complication, I'm going for my goal.
Besides the pain, my proportions will take a hit. My ratio was a proper 0.8 and it'll go to 0.68 or something. I have smaller bones to begin with at 5'2 so 3 inches on me is more than 3 inches on a 5'8 person. However, in my mockups my lengthened femurs looked long while lengthened tibias looked alien, also femurs are easy to hide. How awkward my proportions will look is something I'll find out as I lengthen beyond 2 inches.
I was honest about what I was there for. What stories did you make up? I didn't feel guilty at all. They've had cosmetic patients before and I just didn't see the point of, and couldn't be bothered to lie at the hospital I was getting LL. I remember telling the 50 year old happy-go-lucky nurse who might've asked but no one was inquisitive. I didn't even meet other patients since I was in my room. Sometimes if someone got a peek in, they'd wonder who the patient was since I didn't have anything on and didn't seem to be in any pain, just chilling on my laptop.
The second night I was there, Wednesday night in the ICU there was a patient who got operated for colon cancer(or so I was told) on the bed next to mine, a few feet away. The guy seemed to be in serious pain. I think that was my "What is this.. why did I do this to myself?" moment but I regained my calm & from what I hear he did fine too and got transferred to a room the next day.
you gained 7.66 mm in two weeks?! why its so slow
I started lengthening Day 8. Read the previous pages. :P
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Oh, one thing I dont know how Ellipse Company functions, so the money they returned to you, why is that? I was very
ambiguous in my previous post. :-[
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Oh, one thing I dont know how Ellipse Company functions, so the money they returned to you, why is that? I was very
ambiguous in my previous post. :-[
They haven't returned anything yet. From what I understand, there's a deposit. Basically, if we damage, break or run away with the Precice machine they keep our money. If we return it safe, we get it back.
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were you depressed prior to the surgery? like depressed, not occasional sadness which normal people experience.
I'm get a tad bit depressed (primarily because of height of course) and I wonder if my head will explode if get an episode of depression whilst lengthening or recovering.
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We all feel some form of sadness that drives us into doing this.
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were you depressed prior to the surgery? like depressed, not occasional sadness which normal people experience.
I'm get a tad bit depressed (primarily because of height of course) and I wonder if my head will explode if get an episode of depression whilst lengthening or recovering.
It was like a dark cloud hanging over me. I wasn't totally depressed.
Why would that happen, since you were curing the source of your depression?
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Update: 10th October 2016 - 20 days post OP
A bit over half an inch of lengthening done. My hamstrings and abductors are weak and sometimes spasm a little if there's a sudden movement. My quads are getting stronger bit by bit. For some reason, my right calf muscle has been sore forever which is weird since it's not even being lengthened, must be from sitting idly. I just use a hot water bag for it. The pain so far is very tolerable(I rate it 3/10) and my pain tolerance is average at best. I've gotten a bit lazy with physiotherapy, doing only 2 sessions a day instead of 3.
My scars, almost 3 weeks after the surgery: http://imgur.com/a/AwJQv
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Update: 10th October 2016 - 20 days post OP
A bit over half an inch of lengthening done. My hamstrings and abductors are weak and sometimes spasm a little if there's a sudden movement. My quads are getting stronger bit by bit. For some reason, my right calf muscle has been sore forever which is weird since it's not even being lengthened, must be from sitting idly. I just use a hot water bag for it. The pain so far is very tolerable(I rate it 3/10) and my pain tolerance is average at best. I've gotten a bit lazy with physiotherapy, doing only 2 sessions a day instead of 3.
My scars, almost 3 weeks after the surgery: http://imgur.com/a/AwJQv
ask the doctor if its ok to relax in a very very cold water with ice bag because its very good for muscles
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Update: 10th October 2016 - 20 days post OP
A bit over half an inch of lengthening done. My hamstrings and abductors are weak and sometimes spasm a little if there's a sudden movement. My quads are getting stronger bit by bit. For some reason, my right calf muscle has been sore forever which is weird since it's not even being lengthened, must be from sitting idly. I just use a hot water bag for it. The pain so far is very tolerable(I rate it 3/10) and my pain tolerance is average at best. I've gotten a bit lazy with physiotherapy, doing only 2 sessions a day instead of 3.
My scars, almost 3 weeks after the surgery: http://imgur.com/a/AwJQv
thats a lot of scars, its weird side you used internal!!
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Keep like this Penguinn, your scars are small and will almost disappear, just imagine external femurs and you will feel it like a walk in the park.
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ask the doctor if its ok to relax in a very very cold water with ice bag because its very good for muscles
I've been recommended an ice pack for muscles but it doesn't feel as good as a hot water bag and usually doesn't do much for me.
thats a lot of scars, its weird side you used internal!!
Yeah. They're small though. I don't get what the tiny ones near the knee are for.
Keep like this Penguinn, your scars are small and will almost disappear, just imagine external femurs and you will feel it like a walk in the park.
I'd be worried about way more than scars if I were doing external femurs ;D
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Keep like this Penguinn, your scars are small and will almost disappear, just imagine external femurs and you will feel it like a walk in the park.
External femur is a bad method really, if you can't make Internal just safe your health
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Your scars look very good imo.I mean you just had your surgery,it should get much better with time.
What do you think about your proportions.Do you know your wingspan?
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Hey Penguinn! Are you on any pain meds? Which ones and how much is your dosage?
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Your scars look very good imo.I mean you just had your surgery,it should get much better with time.
What do you think about your proportions.Do you know your wingspan?
They're kind of dented in the skin, I'm hoping that fills out.
As for my proportions, my femur:tibia ratio is going to look bad. To start off with I had something like a 13.1" tibia and 16.6" femur. My ending ratio will be something like 13.1:19.5 making my tibia almost 2/3rds of my femur. The gain in height however totally eclipses long femurs which I can easily hide and don't care much about. If it starts looking really bad, I'll settle for something like 7.2cms instead of the whole 7.5.
I was almost 158cms pre-op and I want to get to 165, so anything above 7 is actually fine by me. I hate to be one of those people so caught up in numbers.
My wingspan was 5'4". I have shortish arms and small hands but wide shoulders. I'll go an inch over my wingspan, should be ok.
Hey Penguinn! Are you on any pain meds? Which ones and how much is your dosage?
The only pills I take is my calcium and vitamin pills post-lunch and the calcium pill again post-dinner. I don't remember the last time I took a pain pill. I sleep for 6+ hours and that too because my lengthening hours are 12am - 8am(and then 4pm) making it impossible to sleep more than 8 hours.
The pain is very tolerable and I would describe it as annoying more than anything else. If I get absorbed in a TV show, movie or video game, I barely care. My ass is more sore from sitting than my legs are from LL. I'm in pain during physiotherapy and while sitting and getting up from the camode but that's self-inflicted, still tolerable and temporary. There's the previously mentioned pill called 'Nice' handy but it's mild, if I start having serious pains I'm going to have to contact them and get heavier pills.
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Sounds like it Is going very well for you.
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This might seem like a crazy idea, but if your butt pains with so much of sitting down, would using a hammock instead of a bed help? ;D ;D
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Sounds like it Is going very well for you.
My hamstrings and abductors are still annoying and contract sometimes but as of 1.5cms, doing pretty well. I went into this expecting severe pain for the first 2 weeks and haven't come close to that.
This might seem like a crazy idea, but if your butt pains with so much of sitting down, would using a hammock instead of a bed help? ;D ;D
That is crazy. For one, where am I gonna get a hammock and two, that'd kill my legs. My butt doesn't hurt that bad. If I just lie down flat on my back, it all goes away. I just choose to browse the internet and play games on my laptop so I have to deal with it.
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The only pills I take is my calcium and vitamin pills post-lunch and the calcium pill again post-dinner. I don't remember the last time I took a pain pill. I sleep for 6+ hours and that too because my lengthening hours are 12am - 8am(and then 4pm) making it impossible to sleep more than 8 hours.
The pain is very tolerable and I would describe it as annoying more than anything else. If I get absorbed in a TV show, movie or video game, I barely care. My ass is more sore from sitting than my legs are from LL. I'm in pain during physiotherapy and while sitting and getting up from the camode but that's self-inflicted, still tolerable and temporary. There's the previously mentioned pill called 'Nice' handy but it's mild, if I start having serious pains I'm going to have to contact them and get heavier pills.
Look like a very good outcome so far. Sleeping for 6+ hours without painkillers is the sweetest dream for any LLer. Congrats!
This might seem like a crazy idea, but if your butt pains with so much of sitting down, would using a hammock instead of a bed help? ;D ;D
Sorry but I have to post this. I absolutely HAVE to:
(http://i.imgur.com/37r53B2.png)
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Look like a very good outcome so far. Sleeping for 6+ hours without painkillers is the sweetest dream for any LLer. Congrats!
Probably because he is very young, most of LL patients who wrote a diary here were between 27-50yo.
I already said somewhere about the 8 year old kid that had ilizarov frame on his femur and he didn't care at all.
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I've had way more annoyance from overworked ass cheeks and randomly aching calf muscles than my thighs. The pain in my quads, hamstrings or abductors while sitting still or laying down is almost nonexistent. I'm sure the latter part of my LL will be painful especially because my bones were shorter to begin with.
Correction: The pain pill I'm allowed to take is called Nise, not Nice. Stands for Nimesulide apparently.
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My hamstrings and abductors are still annoying and contract sometimes but as of 1.5cms, doing pretty well. I went into this expecting severe pain for the first 2 weeks and haven't come close to that.
What do you mean by they 'contract'?
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Does 1.5 are already visible proportionally? I mean, can it already be noticed by you that your femurs are longer than before?
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What do you mean by they 'contract'?
Spasm if I quickly try sitting up from a sleeping position.
Does 1.5 are already visible proportionally? I mean, can it already be noticed by you that your femurs are longer than before?
Nope.
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They're kind of dented in the skin, I'm hoping that fills out.
They'll fill in with time. My fibula scars were indented for a while but they filled in and I can't even see them anymore.
Glad the pain is still minimal.
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Hey Penguinn, congrats on your surgery, i'll be following your experience closely. Ignore my nickname for now as this is a serious question.
You said you are only 18 years old. I'm curious, if and how, Dr. Parihar confirmed that your growth plates were closed prior to surgery?
Some videos of you doing physical therapy would be great, if possible. Glad you are sleeping well, that is so helpful during this process.
Keep up the good work!
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Hey Penguinn, congrats on your surgery, i'll be following your experience closely. Ignore my nickname for now as this is a serious question.
You said you are only 18 years old. I'm curious, if and how, Dr. Parihar confirmed that your growth plates were closed prior to surgery?
Some videos of you doing physical therapy would be great, if possible. Glad you are sleeping well, that is so helpful during this process.
Keep up the good work!
Any specialist doctor can tell you if your bone's fused, by reading your X-ray
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Any specialist doctor can tell you if your bone's fused, by reading your X-ray
Thank you for answering my question PENGUINN...I look forward to reading even more about your lengthening experience with Dr. Parihar.
Next time i'll be sure to just address all my questions to the omnipresent, The Kaiser, aka, the all knowing God himself!
Do me a favor, go outside and stare into the sun for a really long time without blinking, it's an extremely healthy exercise for the eyes...
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Thank you for answering my question PENGUINN...I look forward to reading even more about your lengthening experience with Dr. Parihar.
Next time i'll be sure to just address all my questions to the omnipresent, The Kaiser, aka, the all knowing God himself!
Do me a favor, go outside and stare into the sun for a really long time without blinking, it's an extremely healthy exercise for the eyes...
Mr. Sarcastic is being sarcastic?
Who would have guessed it?
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Thank you for answering my question PENGUINN...I look forward to reading even more about your lengthening experience with Dr. Parihar.
Next time i'll be sure to just address all my questions to the omnipresent, The Kaiser, aka, the all knowing God himself!
Do me a favor, go outside and stare into the sun for a really long time without blinking, it's an extremely healthy exercise for the eyes...
well i am blind so its pointless
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Hey Penguinn, congrats on your surgery, i'll be following your experience closely. Ignore my nickname for now as this is a serious question.
You said you are only 18 years old. I'm curious, if and how, Dr. Parihar confirmed that your growth plates were closed prior to surgery?
Some videos of you doing physical therapy would be great, if possible. Glad you are sleeping well, that is so helpful during this process.
Keep up the good work!
I went to an endocrinologist. They will take a X-Ray of either your wrist or your knee and then tell you.
Don't feel like posting videos but if you like I can PM you the exercises I do.
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Correction: The pain pill I'm allowed to take is called Nise, not Nice. Stands for Nimesulide apparently.
Bro, what are your comments on this?
http://www.hindustantimes.com/health-and-fitness/health-ministry-bans-nimesulide-and-2-other-drugs/story-c5RZYL8fI7uplYRGEnlcZO.html
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Bro, what are your comments on this?
http://www.hindustantimes.com/health-and-fitness/health-ministry-bans-nimesulide-and-2-other-drugs/story-c5RZYL8fI7uplYRGEnlcZO.html
That looks scary, but our government was also calling Dominos pizzas dangerous a while ago.
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That looks scary, but our government was also calling Dominos pizzas dangerous a while ago.
;D Ok, but let's be serious. I think you should show that article to Dr. Parihar.
I heard Ultracet was the most popular for LL patients?
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Update: 13th October 2016 - 23 days post-op
Visited the hospital for X-Rays. My lengthening is going properly and 1.7cms is distracted. Pain's still manageable, just little annoying aches sometimes. Sleep is still fine. I slept for 8 hours last night and would've slept for more had I not been woken up to use the Precice machine.
I heard Ultracet was the most popular for LL patients?
Turns out, the whole time I was on Lanol(650mg) and I'm given a fresh batch in case the pain gets too much to handle. I brought back a batch I'd already used on the 29th of September home and in 2 weeks I must've used like 3 or 4, that too not for extreme pain but for aches that I just couldn't be bothered with.
http://retailpharmaindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Lanol-ER-650-Tablet-10-Tabs.jpg
I don't know why "Nise" was in my head. It must be the nurses saying it all the time, but the pills I was taking even in the ICU from what I recall look exactly like the Lanol ones I'm taking now.
However, Dr. P encourages handling manageable pain externally which I already do via a hot water bag. It's usually my calves that ache because of sitting idly... my quads and hamstrings don't even know I'm doing LL most of the time.
Funny thing, even though physiotherapy is encouraged by everyone for all LL methods to get back to normal asap, yesterday I ended up doing only 1 session because going to the hospital, getting X-Rays, waiting there etc. and back had me tired- and I feel much chipper today than usual. A bit stronger and flexible, even. This is not me saying anything against physiotherapy but I've noticed it before and occasional, unintentional off days seem to do me good.
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What do you think is the reason for your so-far almost painless experience? Did Dr. Parihar say anything about this?
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What do you think is the reason for your so-far almost painless experience? Did Dr. Parihar say anything about this?
He said I should do a lot of physio and get back my muscles while things are relatively painless because if/when they get worse, I'll be better off. "Study while vacations are on because when there's one exam after another, you won't get time."
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He said I should do a lot of physio and get back my muscles while things are relatively painless because if/when they get worse, I'll be better off. "Study while vacations are on because when there's one exam after another, you won't get time."
No, no. I didn't mean it like that.
I meant, what is it about you that makes it so painless?
Was your flexibility above average when you started out? (Don't count it after you started stretching)
Is it that your age is on your side?
Or is it just that Precice is making life easier for the whole world? :)
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No, no. I didn't mean it like that.
I meant, what is it about you that makes it so painless?
Was your flexibility above average when you started out? (Don't count it after you started stretching)
Is it that your age is on your side?
Or is it just that Precice is making life easier for the whole world? :)
Really anyone's guess.. age, surgery gone really well, luck.
Precice 2 is definitely awesome but previous patients have suffered excruciating, 10/10 pain when the epidural was out. My surgical pain was a 4/10 the first two days and then reduced to small aches. My pain tolerance is average.
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Update: 26 days post-op
My flexibility and strength have improved over these past few weeks. My left leg that was weak and shivering during SLRs has surpassed my right somehow. Flexion is an easy 90° in both legs and extensions reach 180° although my left surpasses those(the flexion is probably 110° or so) and the right's a bit tougher. The left leg just feels a bit more free and I'm feeling a little more normal with free-er legs. The IT bands have a long ways to go still, mostly the dented areas with scars, those were cut during surgery.
I'll finish lengthening 2cms today. Update on the pain, it has actually..reduced, probably because the small muscle spasms don't happen anymore. Mostly only my calf muscles ache which is random and can easily be managed with a hot water bag/heating pad.
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Update: 26 days post-op
My flexibility and strength have improved over these past few weeks. My left leg that was weak and shivering during SLRs has surpassed my right somehow. Flexion is an easy 90° in both legs and extensions reach 180° although my left surpasses those(the flexion is probably 110° or so) and the right's a bit tougher. The left leg just feels a bit more free and I'm feeling a little more normal with free-er legs. The IT bands have a long ways to go still, mostly the dented areas with scars, those were cut during surgery.
I'll finish lengthening 2cms today. Update on the pain, it has actually..reduced, probably because the small muscle spasms don't happen anymore. Mostly only my calf muscles ache which is random and can easily be managed with a hot water bag/heating pad.
the real test after passing 5 cm, stay strong and expect the unexpected. you're doing well
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the real test after passing 5 cm, stay strong and expect the unexpected. you're doing well
Yeah. Glad I haven't had any of the supposed "2 weeks of post-op hell" pains. The boy who did his surgery in Vietnam, Asian123's also 18 and says he didn't have much pain. It might be an age thing.
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Yeah. Glad I haven't had any of the supposed "2 weeks of post-op hell" pains. The boy who did his surgery in Vietnam, Asian123's also 18 and says he didn't have much pain. It might be an age thing.
i dont think age related to pain, maybe healing. were you flexible or prepared for the surgery?
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Did Dr. Parihar and yourself ever discuss what he would charge to fix any complications that may arise or what it would cost for additional surgery? By this point what do you think about your doctor himself as well as his team? Sometimes good doctors have assistant doctors or staff that aren't all that great. I've seen Dr. Divya mentioned before. Is your opinion of him favorable?
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Did Dr. Parihar and yourself ever discuss what he would charge to fix any complications that may arise or what it would cost for additional surgery? By this point what do you think about your doctor himself as well as his team? Sometimes good doctors have assistant doctors or staff that aren't all that great. I've seen Dr. Divya mentioned before. Is your opinion of him favorable?
In case the nail malfunctions and a new one has to be put in, Dr. Parihar won't charge for the surgery aside from some OT charges. In the rare, rare case of fat embolism, there's a device called IRA which is pretty expensive($2000 or so, I think) that you'd have to pay for. That's all I've discussed.
I think highly of the him and his team. Dr. Divya's the seniormost assistant but none of them do surgeries on their own. Aside from the hospital not being state of the art, I have no complaints.
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In case the nail malfunctions and a new one has to be put in, Dr. Parihar won't charge for the surgery aside from some OT charges. In the rare, rare case of fat embolism, there's a device called IRA which is pretty expensive($2000 or so, I think) that you'd have to pay for. That's all I've discussed.
I think highly of the him and his team. Dr. Divya's the seniormost assistant but none of them do surgeries on their own. Aside from the hospital not being state of the art, I have no complaints.
Thanks for that. Speaking of the surgery, do you know if Dr. Parihar performs the surgery on both legs or on just one leg while the assistant doctor does the other one? I have read of some doctors doing that, probably to save time or whatever. Did he do both your legs or did he do one while Dr. Divya did the other?
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Thanks for that. Speaking of the surgery, do you know if Dr. Parihar performs the surgery on both legs or on just one leg while the assistant doctor does the other one? I have read of some doctors doing that, probably to save time or whatever. Did he do both your legs or did he do one while Dr. Divya did the other?
Dr. Parihar most definitely did both my legs.
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Thanks for that. Speaking of the surgery, do you know if Dr. Parihar performs the surgery on both legs or on just one leg while the assistant doctor does the other one? I have read of some doctors doing that, probably to save time or whatever. Did he do both your legs or did he do one while Dr. Divya did the other?
Wow! Hell yeah! I've never thought of this! This is probably why some patients (regardless of doctor) feel some distinct issues with one leg, while the other is alright. It might be that one leg was performed by the good surgeon, and the other by an assistant.
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Wow! Hell yeah! I've never thought of this! This is probably why some patients (regardless of doctor) feel some distinct issues with one leg, while the other is alright. It might be that one leg was performed by the good surgeon, and the other by an assistant.
Nope. Both legs have different recoveries. Same surgeon, same method, same healthy patient.
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Update: 21st October 2016- 1 month post-op
Well, a month and a day actually. I'm finishing one inch of lengthening(2.5cms) today and so far my pain is 1/10. Very pleasant. It's mostly my calf muscles that ache so I use a hot water bag. I was given a new strip of painkillers last week after my visit that I still haven't even opened. I sleep for 5-6 hours. Muscles have improved in both flexibility and strength and my left leg that was lagging behind is still ahead of my right.
As for proportions, my femur doesn't look too long yet but after 2" more it most definitely will. Doesn't bother me much because it's almost always covered but what does bother me is when I'm sitting with people(on a chair/couch), my knee shouldn't poke out too far ahead.
I've become a bit thinner but mostly only in my lower body. My legs are definitely skinnier and my formerly big man butt is a pancake. I must've lost a few kgs.
The tougher 2 inches of LL await.
(https://i.imgflip.com/1cpxam.jpg)
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Again me with the same question as before. Now at 2.5cm, is the lengthening in terms of proportions start to become apparent?
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Again me with the same question as before. Now at 2.5cm, is the lengthening in terms of proportions start to become apparent?
Very little. Around 2" is where I'll start to really notice, I figure.
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Sounds like you're doing really well. Hopefully you're able to reach your goal ;D
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As of 2.8cms gained, things are still pretty painless. I'm into video games and don't remember that I'm an LL patient most of the day. Kinda accepted my cripple state well. I've gotten so used to moving around the bed dragging my legs to reach something and the heavy feeling that it's normal.
During physio, my left leg still outperforms my right leg because it's stronger in the quads. I've been getting a muscle pull like feeling in a tiny area in my right leg between my glutes and abductors while doing side leg movements.
My sleep is mostly ok, I sleep at 1am and wake up by 6-7 but sometimes my sleep breaks once or twice wherein I wake up and go back to sleep in a minute. Yesterday I went to bed really sleepy and woke up only 4 hours later with slightly uncomfortable legs. They weren't even in pain, I thought "is this seriously what woke me up?!" Then I took a pain pill to ensure good sleep, the only one I've taken in the past 10 days and it helped, I was fast asleep until I was woken up 3 and a half hours later. I won't take pain pills unless I'm in 3/10 pain or higher(not happened once till now) or it's one of those days I really want 7 hours of sleep cause I haven't had it in forever.
The only things that have been consistently aching are my calf muscles and I can't figure out why, but I use the hot water bag like 6-7 times a day.
I'll be going to Mangal Anand this Thursday for X-Rays and a consultation.
For those doing LL in India: If you have to travel somewhere mid LL, like I have to travel 30 minutes from my home to Mangal Anand, use something called Meru Enabled. Big cab that comes with a wheelchair. The slope comes down, you're set on it, slope goes up and you're magically in the car. Driver buckles you up and you're set. It's great and a half an hour ride or so is just 500-600 INR, that's like $10.
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Sounds like you're doing really well. Hopefully you're able to reach your goal ;D
It's going better than I'd imagined. Thanks!
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You have 2 broken femurs and you are literally lengthening your legs how can you not need any pain killer :o (ofc i hope it stays same.GL)
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It's going better than I'd imagined. Thanks!
Even more impressive is you being Parihar's first precise 2 patient! He's living up to his good reputation. ;D
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You have 2 broken femurs and you are literally lengthening your legs how can you not need any pain killer :o (ofc i hope it stays same.GL)
The nail holds the broken femurs in place lol. The pain people get is mostly post-surgical pain and after that their muscles and tissues being stretched. Physio twice a day and some luck has helped me with that so far.
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Hey man, I'm looking at going over there at the end of the year to do external tibias. I want to lengthen about 5-6cm that'll get me to roughly 5'10. Could you give me an idea of how much it would cost including living over there and the recovery time I'd need!
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Hey man, I'm looking at going over there at the end of the year to do external tibias. I want to lengthen about 5-6cm that'll get me to roughly 5'10. Could you give me an idea of how much it would cost including living over there and the recovery time I'd need!
Counting surgery, travel, stay, around $25,000 based on Kilo's experience. http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=634.0 I'm not sure about externals recovery time.
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I think if is pure external you will be 10-12 months in frames for 6 cm, if is LON frames for 3 moths and 120 days more or less for bone healing.
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Depends on consolidation, it is not good the doctor may want to wait.
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10-12 month's seems like a long time. Are you talking full recovery back to normal life? Because I'm kinda on a time line because I have a business so I don't want to away for long. Even though it's it's mainly online I kinda need to be there building it. What's the benefits of doing LON? And could I get it done for less than $6000?
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With LON you can take the frames off after lengthening if bone growth is going well and there is the doctor in the capital of vietnam. One user here wrote a diary of his surgery there. Says the price was 5000 for LON he did.
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Update: 27th October 2016 - 37 days post-op
I went to Mangal Anand to get X-Rays and for a checkup.
X-Rays came out great. I'm supposed to have lengthened 3.066cms as of going there, the X-Rays show that amount approx. Approx because the bone isn't a straight line. The lower end shows 29mm while the upper shows 32. At the end of my lengthening, they use several methods to calculate the exact length gained, for now I'm on the right track and we know everything with the Precice 2 device and nail is ok.
My flexibility and strength has improved over the last 2 weeks, Dr. Parihar was happy with my extensions. For the most part, only my calf muscles ache and it's a dull ache(that has little to do with LL), so we're still agreed on using a hot water bag/heating pad for it. You're not supposed to use a hot water bag for your thigh too much because it increases the blood flow. Something like 5 minutes a day is ok, which is probably the amount of time my quads actually ache during the day. I've barely used any painkillers since our meeting 2 weeks ago so I didn't need a new strip.
My sleep is still ok. Not amazing but nothing I should complain about. I wake up twice or so during the night to adjust my position. I can easily sleep on my side now. I could even roll over and sleep on my stomach without much of a hassle but I don't try these stunts during the night. Night is when my muscles are usually stiffer than during the day. They loosen up over 10 minutes of me waking up.
Still no pain while sitting idly that I can complain about. If what I had in the ICU was a 4 or 5/10, as I remember calling it, what I have now is a 1/10. Mostly just heavy normal legs, that's what it feels like. I'll see how it gets, en route to my second inch.
Edit: The Precice 2 nail that was faulty and removed from the leg during the surgery itself was sent back to the company and tested in the lab and they say it lengthens. During the surgery it most definitely didn't, the American Ellipse representative was there too. Weird.
X-Rays, as of 3cms lengthened
Right leg: http://imgur.com/a/nYiru
Left leg: http://imgur.com/Tn2bn6O
Left leg at a sexier angle: http://imgur.com/a/Q3Ssb
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Quick update, I'm back to sleeping 8 hours a night and the pain is still minimal.
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Glad you're doing well brother, I hope you drop in now and then after your time at the hospital or consolidation with some videos and photos. You still going for the big 7.5cm? I know a lot of us are planning to hit the lower end of the cm range now, best of luck Penguin. I'm rooting for you!
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I'll consider uploading media way into my recovery. I'm definitely going for 7.5cms.
Not sure what you mean by "lower end of the cm range", I think 3" with internals in femurs is very rational.
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I'll consider uploading media way into my recovery. I'm definitely going for 7.5cms.
Not sure what you mean by "lower end of the cm range", I think 3" with internals in femurs is very rational.
I'm curious why you constantly say you are going to lengthen 7.5cm instead of just doing the full 8cm? The PRECICE can extend to 8cm because that's the maximum safe limit for someone whose body can safely handle that much lengthening, not 7.5cm.
If you are going by inches then 7.62cm is 3 inches, but why cheat yourself out of the extra millimeters...
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I'm curious why you constantly say you are going to lengthen 7.5cm instead of just doing the full 8cm? The PRECICE can extend to 8cm because that's the maximum safe limit for someone whose body can safely handle that much lengthening, not 7.5cm.
If you are going by inches then 7.62cm is 3 inches, but why cheat yourself out of the extra millimeters...
It's just a goal I have in mind. I wouldn't mind 7.4 or 7.6, it's close enough to 3" that no one including me will ever know the difference. If I can save trouble by doing 7.5 instead of 8, I will. What I "need" is 5'5, anything after that I can live without if it's not coming free.
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It's just a goal I have in mind. I wouldn't mind 7.4 or 7.6, it's close enough to 3" that no one including me will ever know the difference. If I can save trouble by doing 7.5 instead of 8, I will. What I "need" is 5'5, anything after that I can live without if it's not coming free.
Ok. Your choice, but I think it's a waste to not go the full 8cm, if Dr. Parihar says it's safe...
As you know Dr. Parihar is one of my top choices, it would be great if you would post some physical therapy videos. It's easy to not include your face, and would provide so much valuable information. Thanks and keep up the good work!
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Ok. Your choice, but I think it's a waste to not go the full 8cm, if Dr. Parihar says it's safe...
As you know Dr. Parihar is one of my top choices, it would be great if you would post some physical therapy videos. It's easy to not include your face, and would provide so much valuable information. Thanks and keep up the good work!
I don't think he'll suggest a higher goal than a patient is ok with. I don't really care after I get my 5'5.
Right now I can't be bothered, but I'll seriously consider videos after consolidation since a lot of people want them.
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but I'll seriously consider videos after consolidation since a lot of people want them.
Please consider videos of physical therapy during your lengthening, it would help me, and i'm sure a lot of other people, understand what really goes on during this time. Along with seeing the progress or regression and rehabilition exercises.
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Hi Penguinn are you really that young? You sound mature! You are a good example for many of us guys. Parihar seems a good doc
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Here there is a proof that intelligence is not related with age.
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Hey Penguinn, I've been lurking on this forum for several years and have been anonymously following your updates. Thank you so much for keeping your diary updated. I had Dr. Parihar in the back of my mind for a LONG time but I really wanted Internal Fixators (Precice 2). To my pleasant surprise, you are the first patient. I want to get the same surgery done. I've been trying to contact Dr. Parihar's office but was having trouble (I'm living in the US currently, and the receptionists were not understanding my accent). Can you privately message me with Dr. Parihar's email address? I found some links online but I think its outdated. I want to figure out how I can coordinate this from the United States.
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Hey Penguinn, I've been lurking on this forum for several years and have been anonymously following your updates. Thank you so much for keeping your diary updated. I had Dr. Parihar in the back of my mind for a LONG time but I really wanted Internal Fixators (Precice 2). To my pleasant surprise, you are the first patient. I want to get the same surgery done. I've been trying to contact Dr. Parihar's office but was having trouble (I'm living in the US currently, and the receptionists were not understanding my accent). Can you privately message me with Dr. Parihar's email address? I found some links online but I think its outdated. I want to figure out how I can coordinate this from the United States.
PM'd.
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Hi,,
I hope you are doing fine!
Can you upload photos of the locations, like where you live, the hospital, physiotherapy facilities etc.?
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Can you upload photos of the locations, like where you live
Lol what? I'm home so no.
the hospital, physiotherapy facilities etc.?
This was the room I stayed in:
http://imgur.com/a/unTpg
http://imgur.com/a/nQuXJ
Room 23.
There is apparently a room for physio that I have seen pictures of but never been there. I don't think they'd ever take a cosmetic LL patient there because it's too much trouble. Easier to send the physio over. The physiotherapist would come to my room and after that to my home. Again, I'm living at home, half an hour from Mangal Anand because I'm a Mumbai resident.
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haha, thanks
sorry I haven't read that you live at home.
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The rooms looks okay, nothing wrong with it.
I guess the people who rant about the hospital are just used to excessive opulence seen in the western hospitals. And, nowadays, in the new Indian hospitals also.
But then again, you would want those 7-10 days in the hospitals to be as comfortable as possible, so I guess there are merits to their concerns.
Penguinn, the 9 lakhs from the doctor's end comes with a private room, right?
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The rooms looks okay, nothing wrong with it.
I guess the people who rant about the hospital are just used to excessive opulence seen in the western hospitals. And, nowadays, in the new Indian hospitals also.
But then again, you would want those 7-10 days in the hospitals to be as comfortable as possible, so I guess there are merits to their concerns.
Penguinn, the 9 lakhs from the doctor's end comes with a private room, right?
In the defense of that one person who wrote he saw Mangal Anand from the outside and turned tail, it does look like a horror movie prop from the outside. It's decent from the inside and the bed is practical and good for an LL patient. The fact that the surgeon was outstanding far overruled everything for me.
Yes, the room is definitely private.
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In the defense of that one person who wrote he saw Mangal Anand from the outside and turned tail, it does look like a horror movie prop from the outside.
Lol, you are really good with your expressions
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Update: 3rd November 2016 - Half way done lengthening
I'm at 3.733cms lengthened which is about the mid point.
>Pain is still minimal. Surprisingly the pains I do have are not in my femurs, quads or hamstrings. My left part-right-above-the-heel(don't know what to call it) feels a bit tender for a few seconds while bending my leg but it's no big deal. I think it's from keeping my legs in a sleeping position too long. On my right, one tiny area between the abductor and glutes gets a muscle pull sort of feeling while doing side leg raises during physio. My calves have their dull ache sometimes from sitting on the bed too long but it's lesser than they used to. I would still rate it 1/10.
>Pills.. I've only been taking my calcium and vitamins. No painkillers have been taken in weeks. The fresh packet of pain killers I got on 13th October is still almost fully intact. I haven't needed a single sleeping pill in my entire LL thus far.
>Proportions are good as of 1.5 inches in mine and everyone else's opinion but with 1.5 more my femurs will definitely look long, but acceptable and very much coverable in pants.
>Sleep is great so far. I just woke up from 9 hours of sleep(without any medication) and had to lengthen late as a result.
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Penguinn hi ,You will remove the rod after treatment or the doctor said you would stay with her forever? The doctor said something about not having trouble keeping the rod in the femur forever? thank you and good luck
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Penguinn hi ,You will remove the rod after treatment or the doctor said you would stay with her forever? The doctor said something about not having trouble keeping the rod in the femur forever? thank you and good luck
It'll be removed around 2 years after the initial surgery. Late 2018.
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Penguinn hi ,You will remove the rod after treatment or the doctor said you would stay with her forever? The doctor said something about not having trouble keeping the rod in the femur forever? thank you and good luck
There is no doctor recommend to keep it forever. mostly 1-3 years after the surgery it should be removed
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So your lengthening 1mm a day.
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Have you heard about stem cells? I have been reading a lot about them and they're proving to be a very good accelerant for the healing process.
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So your lengthening 1mm a day.
Yup.
Have you heard about stem cells? I have been reading a lot about them and they're proving to be a very good accelerant for the healing process.
I have but it's not reason enough for me to do additional surgery. Waiting it out is a much simpler option. Unless for some reason my consolidation is awfully slow and has problems, I won't even consider it.
At my next meeting I'll ask Dr. Parihar his thoughts on it though, just cause I'm curious.
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Penguinn, have you been lengthening everyday since the start of your lengthening or have you had any holidays till now?
If you have had holidays, how many of them and why did you have them?
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Penguinn, have you been lengthening everyday since the start of your lengthening or have you had any holidays till now?
If you have had holidays, how many of them and why did you have them?
Haven't needed any holidays yet.
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Hello Penguinn , I'm from Brazil, and here the precice II method has not yet arrived, so what we have is LON or ISKD (rod manufactured by Orthofix company). I chose to do ISKD femur (internal), which would be the closest to precice II, my doubt is, you know something about about ISKD (Orthofix), you recommend the method ,or know a problem about ISKD(Orthofix)?
what is the best method, LON or ISKD in your opinion ?thank you
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Don't you have to decide beforehand how much to lengthen with ISKD?
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Is very probable that you have problems with ISKD ,is inaccurate, after 5 cm mainly.
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Don't you have to decide beforehand how much to lengthen with ISKD?
It would be 8 cm(3 inches) in clinical Affonso Ferreira Institute ( city of Campinas/sp, Brazil)
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Is very probable that you have problems with ISKD ,is inaccurate, after 5 cm mainly.
In Brazil we only have Ilizarov, LON or ISKD. What would you do (Ilizarov, LON or ISKD) and in which place (tibia or femur) , thank you
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And what if your body doesn't adapt well and you wanna slow down lengthening, maybe speed it up etc? And what if you get complications and need to stop at 6.5?
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Ok, LON is an exteral/internal method so you would have to wear frames for at least 2.5 months, ISKD is not very recommended but if I were you I would use it for 5-6 cm in the femurs, internal is a lot comfortable than external.
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And what if your body doesn't adapt well and you wanna slow down lengthening, maybe speed it up etc? And what if you get complications and need to stop at 6.5?
I intend to lengthen according to which the tests are showing that possible. If I have complications and need to stop at 6.5, I would stop the stretch, would not do anything that would cause me harm '' permanent ''
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Ok, LON is an exteral/internal method so you would have to wear frames for at least 2.5 months, ISKD is not very recommended but if I were you I would use it for 5-6 cm in the femurs, internal is a lot comfortable than external.
if you use LON, how you lengthen maximum (5--6 cm or 7---8 cm )
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If you use LON you shouldnt go above 6 cm, going over 6 is a terrible mistake.
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Id probably do 5 since its external.
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If you use LON you shouldnt go above 6 cm, going over 6 is a terrible mistake.
By the method LON if you make 5 cm of the tibia, how long it would take to remove the irons on the outside of the leg?
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After lenghtening. You lengthen 0.66-1mm per day. You start lengthening around a week after surgery. Do the math.
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Another issue on the LON method, doctors in Brazil say after removing irons, one needs to put a board in the bone, to finish recovering the bone. Is there a problem, does anyone know if I could stay with this board without problems, forever screwed into the bone?
Because all doctors in Brazil say the person have no problem to keep the rod(iskd) or board after LON in the bone forever.
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After lenghtening. You lengthen 0.66-1mm per day. You start lengthening around a week after surgery. Do the math.
Yes, 1mm per day, it would take two months to complete the stretching (5-6cm), but how long it would take to remove the irons pins LON?
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You put the nail after distraction
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You put the nail after distraction
this nail would forever or be removed after recovered?
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I meant to say after distraction you only keep the nail in. Frame is removed.
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What left me in doubt in reading this international forum is that in Brazil doctors see no problem, after recovering, to leave the board or screw in the bone forever
I think the best idea is to see a doctor to remove the rod at the end of 2 to 3 years of distraction
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It should be there for maximum 2 years, forever?????? I think it can damage the body because of the ions or something like that.
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It should be there for maximum 2 years, forever?????? I think it can damage the body because of the ions or something like that.
I think it can damage the body too, but doctors say they have no problem, I have doubt, then I will ask to withdraw
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Hmmm, ask for a second opinion if they tell you the same, run to another country.
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Hello Penguinn , I'm from Brazil, and here the precice II method has not yet arrived, so what we have is LON or ISKD (rod manufactured by Orthofix company). I chose to do ISKD femur (internal), which would be the closest to precice II, my doubt is, you know something about about ISKD (Orthofix), you recommend the method ,or know a problem about ISKD(Orthofix)?
what is the best method, LON or ISKD in your opinion ?thank you
Sorry, I have no knowledge about ISKD.
What left me in doubt in reading this international forum is that in Brazil doctors see no problem, after recovering, to leave the board or screw in the bone forever
For Precice, I've read the nail can fuse with the bone and cause problems. The nail is also thinning the bone marrow temporarily.
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Sorry, I have no knowledge about ISKD.
For Precice, I've read the nail can fuse with the bone and cause problems. The nail is also thinning the bone marrow temporarily.
thank you anyway
So it's best to remove all (nail and rod) after a while, no matter what the method used ? good luck in your treatment
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How are you Penguinn? All right? How many mm already got? Good luck
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How are you Penguinn? All right? How many mm already got? Good luck
4.2cms today and I'm fine. I sleep for 8 hours, I still don't take painkillers and no pain during the day to report.
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Lucky bastard.
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Nice to see that you are doing well man!!
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I think it is a painless experience because of Parihar technique more than your age, that can be a coincidence.
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4.2cms today and I'm fine. I sleep for 8 hours, I still don't take painkillers and no pain during the day to report.
Amazing post-op, dude. Congratulations!
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4.2cms today and I'm fine. I sleep for 8 hours, I still don't take painkillers and no pain during the day to report.
Great news, good luck
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Your post is inspiring a lot of hope! I look to measure 4cm with 6cm being the absolute max.
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Your post is inspiring a lot of hope! I look to measure 4cm with 6cm being the absolute max.
Measure? As in lengthen? Honestly, if my lengthening ended here I would mark my entire process as "painless with some discomfort". Hopefully it won't get much worse for the next 3+ cms.
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I think it is a painless experience because of Parihar technique more than your age, that can be a coincidence.
Has to be the age. Morriste was crusing by distraction as well and he went to Sarin....
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Has to be the age. Morriste was crusing by distraction as well and he went to Sarin....
Could also be body type. Based on my own experience and anecdotal evidence from other patients, it seems that patients with thicker muscles feel significantly more pain during the lengthening period. Are you particularly thin, Penguinn? Could just be a genetic thing too and your soft tissues are just naturally more lax/stretchy than a lot of other people's.
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There are definitely multiple factors that influence how painful the process will be. In my own experience, during my 8 months of downtime at the Paley institute, age seemed to be the main factor, however, I wouldn't rule out body type as well. I was 32 and had a moderately muscular body type with lots of athletic trauma and I had the hardest time of anyone there lengthening at the same time as me. Getting this done at a young age is a blessing, not only because you're likely to have an easier time, but because- personally speaking- life begins at 18 and I'd give every penny I have to relive those years at my new height.
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Could also be body type. Based on my own experience and anecdotal evidence from other patients, it seems that patients with thicker muscles feel significantly more pain during the lengthening period. Are you particularly thin, Penguinn? Could just be a genetic thing too and your soft tissues are just naturally more lax/stretchy than a lot of other people's.
Not really. At 5'2 I weighed 60kg(132lbs), measured right before I went into surgery. I had an average body type and I'm thinner now by 2-3 kgs I'd guess. My quads were muscular and they've lost about an inch of width and all their muscle.
There are definitely multiple factors that influence how painful the process will be. In my own experience, during my 8 months of downtime at the Paley institute, age seemed to be the main factor, however, I wouldn't rule out body type as well. I was 32 and had a moderately muscular body type with lots of athletic trauma and I had the hardest time of anyone there lengthening at the same time as me. Getting this done at a young age is a blessing, not only because you're likely to have an easier time, but because- personally speaking- life begins at 18 and I'd give every penny I have to relive those years at my new height.
I agree, 18 is ideal except for the financing issue. It's never too late though, 5'5 - 5'9 is incredible.
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I got my final height measured in September when I returned to the Paley Institute: 176.5 cm - 5 9.5 ft. Exactly the 11.5 cm gain my x-rays showed when I finished. So you'll be glad to know, with the precise, you don't lose any of the height that you gain once you consolidate.
Anyway keep it up.
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How are you Penguinn? All right? How many mm already got? Good luck
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How are you Penguinn? All right? How many mm already got? Good luck
4.5cms today.
The only side effect of lengthening so far is that I can see my femur is now longer, but it still looks proportionate. I think the next 3cms is what will take it from "proportionately long" to "very long", but not too bad and I can live with it. The 3" gained total far, far outweigh slight disproportion for me.
Except for 3 or 4 days, I've slept for 8 hours every night. The strip of painkillers I got a month ago has only 3 pills missing so I'm doing good. The process has been far easier than I thought it would be. This time next month I'll be done lengthening, so we'll see how the next 30 days go. It doesn't look like I'll get severe muscle tightness or excruciating pains unless things go from 0-100 somehow.
So far in my opinion, LL is totally worth it. If I had the proportions and time, honestly, I would have done a second LL for 2" in my tibias with Dr. Parihar.
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Can you share pics or video? thanks
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When you say that your femur will look "proportionately long" are you comparing it to the tibia or to the upper body? I've no idea what is your sitting height and wingspan but maybe a 2nd LL in your tibias wouldn't be a bad idea proportion wise.
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Can you share pics or video? thanks
Nope. I might share one many months after recovery.
I have X-Ray pictures on the previous pages if you like.
When you say that your femur will look "proportionately long" are you comparing it to the tibia or to the upper body? I've no idea what is your sitting height and wingspan but maybe a 2nd LL in your tibias wouldn't be a bad idea proportion wise.
To the tibia. My tibia:femur ratio post lengthening will be 0.673.
A second LL would be a bad idea. My sitting height is around 5'4(I sat next to my 5'4.5 dad to see), my wingspan is only 5'4 because of my shoulders(arms aren't long), and my legs weren't particularly short. I can pull off 5'5 but I'm afraid that's the limit.
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Honestly I can't take this diary seriously. It doesn't come off as genuine.
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Honestly I can't take this diary seriously. It doesn't come off as genuine.
I agree, I obviously painted my X-Rays on MS paint.
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Hi Penguinn,
Congratulations for your actual achievement and thanks a lot for sharing your experience in the forum.
You wrote that you'll have a final crural index of 0,673 after 8cm added in the femurs. Have the measures of tibia and femur been made considering TBL (tibia maximum length) and FBL (femur Bicondylar length)?
Because if you had a very common original crural index of 0,825 for example; knowing that x/y=0,825 and that x/(y+8)=0,673...you get original tibia =29,2cm and original femur 35,4cm....
These values seem to be small for a person whose starting height is about 158cm, considering that you stated that your legs weren't particularly short before LL...
THanks in advance for your answer, and once again congratulations for the actual achievement.
Cheers.
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Hi Penguinn,
Congratulations for your actual achievement and thanks a lot for sharing your experience in the forum.
You wrote that you'll have a final crural index of 0,673 after 8cm added in the femurs. Have the measures of tibia and femur been made considering TBL (tibia maximum length) and FBL (femur Bicondylar length)?
Because if you had a very common original crural index of 0,825 for example; knowing that x/y=0,825 and that x/(y+8)=0,673...you get original tibia =29,2cm and original femur 35,4cm....
These values seem to be small for a person whose starting height is about 158cm, considering that you stated that your legs weren't particularly short before LL...
THanks in advance for your answer, and once again congratulations for the actual achievement.
Cheers.
My head's spinning..
(https://looptehloup.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/368nf9.jpg?w=614)
Just looked again. My tibia was 33.6 and femur was 42.6. 33.6/42.6 = 7.887 which is about a 0.79 ratio that I had before.
I assumed 7.4cms of lengthening to round off 42.6 to 50. New ratio: 33.6/50 = 0.672
That's why I say I wasn't short legged, apparently my tibia was longer than Kilo's starting tibia and much longer than Morisette's(his was unusually short though). My femur was Kilo's femur length. However I've always felt normal if not short legged compared to 5'6 friends whose legs seem to be huge. Maybe it's a race thing?
(Edit: When I say "normal legged compared to 5'6 friends" I don't mean our legs are equal, I mean compared to their longer legs I felt like mine were right for my height if not short.)
Yeah, they don't matter so much to someone who's 5'2. Also apparently I have a 0.5cm discrepancy in my tibias and 0.2 in the femurs, making my left leg 0.7cms taller than my right, yet I can't even see it or feel it after knowing.
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Thanks Penguinn for the fastness of your reply.
79 as original crural index means you were proportionally with short tibia, since as I wrote in the Height & Proportions section, the crural index varies from about 78 up to about 88. Just searching in the web you get these values, also with charts.
Nevertheless, as indicated in my last consideration in the same section, whatever your original crural index, you can lengthen the segment you consider more appropriate. Just listen to your body when it will tell you your individual safe limit.
Thanks again for sharing your experience rich of important details and useful infos.
Cheers.
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Thanks Penguinn for the fastness of your reply.
79 as original crural index means you were proportionally with short tibia, since as I wrote in the Height & Proportions section, the crural index varies from about 78 up to about 88. Just searching in the web you get these values, also with charts.
Yeah, but as long as it's in the normal range, in my opinion, it doesn't matter too much. It's just not ideal. In the mockups I had made my lengthened femur looked ok while the lengthened tibia, even 6cms, looked ridiculous.
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Penguin, if I could question you further on the whole proportion thing. Say where you're at now, practically 2 inches, if both Tibia and Femurs were equally lengthen to 5 CM, would you feel that would be too much for your legs to torso ratio? How about 8 CM equally increased? Would that then be too much for your own "proportional limit" legs to torso?
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Same question as Alu.
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Penguin, if I could question you further on the whole proportion thing. *Say where you're at now, practically 2 inches, if both Tibia and Femurs were equally lengthen to 5 CM, would you feel that would be too much for your legs to torso ratio? **How about 8 CM equally increased? Would that then be too much for your own "proportional limit" legs to torso?
Also just clarifying cause I feel like I worded it awkwardly:
*Say Tibia and Femurs were both increased to 1.5 cm for an equal of 5 CM.
**Say Tibia and Femurs were both increased to 4 cm for an equal of 8 CM.
This question is simply about Torso to Legs. Although it would be nice to hear your input later on what you think 10 CM would feel like.
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Edit: Just read "where you're now".
Yes, 4" total lengthening would be too much. With my arms and sitting height of around 5'3.5-5'4, 5'5 is the limit for me. If I was put next to a 5'6 person after 4" of lengthening, you'd be able to tell something was off.
Edit: By sitting height of 5'3.5-5'4 I mean an inch or half an inch shorter than my dad who's 5'4.5 or so with normal proportions. I haven't measured it, honestly, I didn't care.
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So 4 inches is too much, what would be the most you recommend considering that the person is normal, not short torso or legs?
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So 4 inches is too much, what would be the most you recommend considering that the person is normal, not short torso or legs?
Can't say. That would depend on their starting height, arm length etc. and I'd have to see their mock ups.
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Hi Penguinn,
Congratulations for your actual achievement and thanks a lot for sharing your experience in the forum.
You wrote that you'll have a final crural index of 0,673 after 8cm added in the femurs. Have the measures of tibia and femur been made considering TBL (tibia maximum length) and FBL (femur Bicondylar length)?
Because if you had a very common original crural index of 0,825 for example; knowing that x/y=0,825 and that x/(y+8)=0,673...you get original tibia =29,2cm and original femur 35,4cm....
These values seem to be small for a person whose starting height is about 158cm, considering that you stated that your legs weren't particularly short before LL...
THanks in advance for your answer, and once again congratulations for the actual achievement.
Cheers.
Mate, you think way way way too much about proportions. You bring in all these scientific equations, everyone will be disproportionate. The goal is too not look terrible and keep functionality.
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Update: 13th November 2016
I'd advice LLers to not continuously use a hot water bag/heating pad. I've overused the hell out of one for my calf muscles for a month and a half and it caused my calf muscles to get this red, cell-like structure look. It kinda looks like this: http://www.pediatricsconsultantlive.com/sites/default/files/resize/peds/1655766-493x352.png
After Googling about it, I think it's Erythema Ab Igne(mild), a skin condition caused when blood cells dilate after overexposure to heat and it goes away after the heating source is removed, so no more hot water bags to relax my calves for a while. I can't even feel it; there's no burning, itching or pain so it doesn't seem serious. Going to Mangal Anand tomorrow for a checkup and will get it evaluated along with other things.
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Update: 13th November 2016
I'd advice LLers to not continuously use a hot water bag/heating pad. I've overused the hell out of one for my calf muscles for a month and a half and it caused my calf muscles to get this red, cell-like structure look. It kinda looks like this: http://www.pediatricsconsultantlive.com/sites/default/files/resize/peds/1655766-493x352.png
After Googling about it, I think it's Erythema Ab Igne(mild), a skin condition caused when blood cells dilate after overexposure to heat and it goes away after the heating source is removed, so no more hot water bags to relax my calves for a while. I can't even feel it; there's no burning, itching or pain so it doesn't seem serious. Going to Mangal Anand tomorrow for a checkup and will get it evaluated along with other things.
I think that's it , How many mm already got? Good luck
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Update: 13th November 2016
I'd advice LLers to not continuously use a hot water bag/heating pad. I've overused the hell out of one for my calf muscles for a month and a half and it caused my calf muscles to get this red, cell-like structure look. It kinda looks like this: http://www.pediatricsconsultantlive.com/sites/default/files/resize/peds/1655766-493x352.png
After Googling about it, I think it's Erythema Ab Igne(mild), a skin condition caused when blood cells dilate after overexposure to heat and it goes away after the heating source is removed, so no more hot water bags to relax my calves for a while. I can't even feel it; there's no burning, itching or pain so it doesn't seem serious. Going to Mangal Anand tomorrow for a checkup and will get it evaluated along with other things.
I used to sleep with hot packs on high and the skin on my thigh looked like that but it we t away a month or two after stopping.
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Which packs are better in lengthening : hot or cold?
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cold is def better but it's so uncomfortable and difficult to manage. I would say stay away from heat until all your swelling is gone. Icing helps a lot during this stage. There are heat pads that are electric and work at the press of a button and really helped me get sleep when the pain was too much to handle.
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Which packs are better in lengthening : hot or cold?
I'm not allowed to use hot water bags/heating pads on my thighs more than a minimal amount because the blood flow shouldn't increase too much there. Cold packs, I've found, don't work. They're for injuries and not for muscle pain. My calves used to ache very often in October and a hot water bag always solved the problem. Now I'll just put up with it or take a pain pill if it gets annoying. Don't abuse the heating pad.
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Update: 15th November 2016 - 56 days post op- 2" gained
Well, almost 2 inches. I'm at 4.966cms as of writing this; the X-Rays of yesterday showed 4.7cms instead of 4.866 but 1mm is the room for error while measuring. Getting X-Rays isn't fun at all btw. It's an entire physio session on your legs and takes forever. I go every 2 weeks or so and the exact point that's in the middle of the Precice machine while lengthening(where the magnet is) shifts by a few mms and has to be relocated and re-marked.
X-Rays
Right: http://imgur.com/a/5x3ix
Left: http://imgur.com/a/G87k9
I got my first complication; duck ass is starting to form on the right because I haven't exercised the glutes enough. The left leg is completely fine somehow so when I stand, my right knee is half an inch ahead of the left because the muscles are a bit tight. I've been given a bunch of new exercises including standing for 10 minutes straight, pulling back the right knee the whole time. It should get fixed soon since I'm nipping it in the bud and doing lots of physio, but we'll see. The next month will be tougher.
Was told the red grill-like marks on my calves from overusing the hot water bag aren't a big deal and will go on their own.
The pain when I'm in a relaxed position is still minimal. Funnily, my brain hasn't adjusted to me being 2" taller. I'll have a fun time getting adjusted to being taller once LL is done.
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Update: 15th November 2016 - 56 days post op- 2" gained
Well, almost 2 inches. I'm at 4.966cms as of writing this; the X-Rays of yesterday showed 4.7cms instead of 4.866 but 1mm is the room for error while measuring. Getting X-Rays isn't fun at all btw. It's an entire physio session on your legs and takes forever. I go every 2 weeks or so and the exact point that's in the middle of the Precice machine while lengthening(where the magnet is) shifts by a few mms and has to be relocated and re-marked.
X-Rays
Right: http://imgur.com/a/5x3ix
Left: http://imgur.com/a/G87k9
I got my first complication; duck ass is starting to form on the right because I haven't exercised the glutes enough. The left leg is completely fine somehow so when I stand, my right knee is half an inch ahead of the left because the muscles are a bit tight. I've been given a bunch of new exercises including standing for 10 minutes straight, pulling back the right knee the whole time. It should get fixed soon since I'm nipping it in the bud and doing lots of physio, but we'll see. The next month will be tougher.
Was told the red grill-like marks on my calves from overusing the hot water bag aren't a big deal and will go on their own.
The pain when I'm in a relaxed position is still minimal. Funnily, my brain hasn't adjusted to me being 2" taller. I'll have a fun time getting adjusted to being taller once LL is done.
Duck ass is usually caused by the ileo-psoas.. Do some thomas stretches with your physio
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Duck ass is usually caused by the ileo-psoas.. Do some thomas stretches with your physio
I don't think it's that muscle. It's the top quad muscle that comes from the hip and the hamstring that needs to be more flexible. It bends my knee causing my butt to go a little back as a result. I'll ask about this one.
Thanks, and I'd read some negative things about Dr. Shah on this forum, and later even more stuff through PMs. However I've promised the person who told me that I'd keep it to myself. Also after the first time I spoke to Parihar and through reading Kilo's diary I didn't think I needed to look further.
I'd also like to correct this- the person who'd told me some negative incidents about Dr. Shah turned out to be a fake, so I take it back and sorry. The main reason I chose Dr. Parihar is because after meeting with him I didn't need to look further, not because there's anything wrong with Dr. Shah. To those considering, do your own research.
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Doing Precice 2 nails in my femurs with Dr. Mangal Parihar. My surgery's on 20th September, about 12 days to go. I will be the Dr's first Precice 2 patient(slightly unnerving); however he says it won't matter. The total cost for those wondering is around $42,000 or 28 Lakhs(nails + surgery, not counting hotel stay or travel).
When you say 24 lakhs is that Indian rupees??
Also why did you choose Precice over the LON and Ilizarov apparatus?
Good luck for your lengthening and I hope all goes well (:
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When you say 24 lakhs is that Indian rupees??
Also why did you choose Precice over the LON and Ilizarov apparatus?
Good luck for your lengthening and I hope all goes well (:
*28 and rupees. I ended up spending more. Make that approx 33, considering I'll get back the Precice deposit. That's $48K.
Precice is way more comfortable and I wanted to lengthen 3" which I wouldn't have done in my tibias.
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*28 and rupees. I ended up spending more. Make that approx 33, considering I'll get back the Precice deposit. That's $48K.
Precice is way more comfortable and I wanted to lengthen 3" which I wouldn't have done in my tibias.
And when you say 48k do you mean 48,000 in rupees or dollars? I'd just like to make sure so I know abouts how much I need to make.
And that's a lot of inches I'm very excited for you, man!!
In terms of movement (as I've heard you can't weight bear with precice) what can you do?? Are you allowed on crutches?
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And when you say 48k do you mean 48,000 in rupees or dollars? I'd just like to make sure so I know abouts how much I need to make.
And that's a lot of inches I'm very excited for you, man!!
In terms of movement (as I've heard you can't weight bear with precice) what can you do?? Are you allowed on crutches?
Dollars.
I can bend my knee at around 140° assuming 180 is where your heel touches your thigh. I can move my legs about pretty fine on the bed, but they're not as free as pre-op and things like turning on a side take more time. Recently my heels have been feeling sore to the touch so some movements are slower.
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Hey Penguinn. Sorry to hear about the duck ass, how's that coming along now?
And as of today, how many cm lengthened?
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How is your hiperextensión?
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Hey Penguinn. Sorry to hear about the duck ass, how's that coming along now?
And as of today, how many cm lengthened?
I never had duck ass. I was fooled because I held the walker ahead of me and that caused me to stand at a weird angle. The only problem is the right knee bends a little because the glutes muscles and hamstring is a bit tight. The left is completely fine somehow though.
How is your hiperextensión?
Perfect on the left, bad on the right. I have to stand while hyperextending my right leg as physio and that will improve it eventually.
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You'll be done lengthening in two weeks ;D how does it feel? Like time just flew by or are you dying to get back to regular life again?
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You'll be done lengthening in two weeks ;D how does it feel? Like time just flew by or are you dying to get back to regular life again?
The start of the journey was tough and a bit frustrating, then time flew and I have a small complication now but time's still flying. I surrounded myself with video games and after doing physio twice a day I'm exhausted and sleep well. I won't be walking for 2+ months after lengthening is done so regular life is still far away.
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How are you Penguinn? How many mm already got? Good luck
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How are you Penguinn? How many mm already got? Good luck
60mm or 6cm today. My right knee is still a little bent and looks a bit awkward when I stand, but at least it hasn't gotten worse over lengthening the last 1cm.
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The start of the journey was tough and a bit frustrating, then time flew and I have a small complication now but time's still flying. I surrounded myself with video games and after doing physio twice a day I'm exhausted and sleep well. I won't be walking for 2+ months after lengthening is done so regular life is still far away.
The journey is coming to an end soon though. Then you'll have the rest of your life to enjoy your new height. :)
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Damn 6cm is a lot over 2 months!! I'm really happy for you, dude :) I hope it continues to go well for you
Will you be stopping at this length or will you continue to go for the 7.5?
Also cos of your first complication what exercises could you have done before to have prevented it? Or it just really depends on the person and how their body reacts to the lengthening.
Are you allowed to do weights and workout the upper body at all whilst lengthening? Like doing bicep curls, or pull ups at all?
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Damn 6cm is a lot over 2 months!! I'm really happy for you, dude :) I hope it continues to go well for you
Will you be stopping at this length or will you continue to go for the 7.5?
Also cos of your first complication what exercises could you have done before to have prevented it? Or it just really depends on the person and how their body reacts to the lengthening.
Are you allowed to do weights and workout the upper body at all whilst lengthening? Like doing bicep curls, or pull ups at all?
Thanks. I'll go for 7+ for sure.
I could've stood straight without bending either knee for a while every day on the walker; basically the same exercise I do now but it would've been much easier without the complication in the first place.
I could definitely work on my biceps but only while on the bed. There's no way you could do pull ups in this state. My forearms have gained some muscle anyway from using them more than normal as support for moving around.
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Hey...i am happy your doing good...hows the 6cm height increase?...can you notice any difference?
I would suggest you to stop at 7cm ...cheers
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Hey...i am happy your doing good...hows the 6cm height increase?...can you notice any difference?
I would suggest you to stop at 7cm ...cheers
Yeah, there's most definitely a difference.
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is it a noticeable difference from others or just a normal difference?
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is it a noticeable difference from others or just a normal difference?
Not sure what you mean. It's noticeable to others and to me.
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The start of the journey was tough and a bit frustrating, then time flew and I have a small complication now but time's still flying.
What is your small complication now?
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Thanks. I'll go for 7+ for sure.
I could've stood straight without bending either knee for a while every day on the walker; basically the same exercise I do now but it would've been much easier without the complication in the first place.
So is standing painful now?
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What is your small complication now?
The knee bending issue.
So is standing painful now?
Nope, but if I stand normally my right knee is bent an inch or so ahead of the left. If I have to stand like a normal person, I have to pull back my right knee, meaning stretch the hamstring and that's strenuous.
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The knee bending issue.
Nope, but if I stand normally my right knee is bent an inch or so ahead of the left. If I have to stand like a normal person, I have to pull back my right knee, meaning stretch the hamstring and that's strenuous.
and what your doctor said about your bent right knee? will this make your process longer? how you could fix it, stretching?
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and what your doctor said about your bent right knee? will this make your process longer? how you could fix it, stretching?
He didn't tell me to stop lengthening, and added these exercises to my routine:
-Glutes contractions while laying on my back
-Laying on my stomach and raising my leg without bending my knee.
-Standing on the walker for 10 minutes while keeping my legs straight.
-Laying down for a couple of hours on my stomach and letting my ankles dangle off the bed.
I completely forgot about the last exercise. :-X I've been doing the others and while my knee is still bent in the relaxed position, extending it is a bit easier now. Also it hasn't gotten worse over the last 1+cm of lengthening, if that counts as progress.
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Penguin I'm following your walk. I hope you can achieve your goals :). I wanted to ask you a question. Do you intend to do tibia later?
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Penguin I'm following your walk. I hope you can achieve your goals :). I wanted to ask you a question. Do you intend to do tibia later?
No. If my arms and torso were big enough I would strongly consider it and if I did it'd be in 4 years or so. After 5'5 I'd start to look weird, and more importantly I'm satisfied and can't be arsed with another LL.
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Thank you so much.. I have been following your posts. All the best penguin.
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so is the bent temporary or could be permanent?
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It's temporary. I had the same issue on my right leg. Took a while to fix though.
Basically my right femur was a few mm shorter than my left at the end of my lengthening, so I took the lengthening machine to California with me- with the doctor's permission- and continued lengthening my right leg. Since I was at home, I didn't have immediate access to physical therapy and those few days of lengthening took an additional month of physio to sort out my tight muscle.
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Update: 29th November 2016 - 70 days post op- 2.5" gained
Got X-Rays and a check up done at the hospital yesterday. Although I should have gained 6.266cms as of then, the Precice 2 machine(not the X-Rays, the machine itself) showed 6.1cm lengthened. I'll lengthen exactly 1.3cm more before my next visit. Then through a full body X-Ray they can tell exactly how much is lengthened, based on my previous full body X-Ray. At that point I should be around 7.4 or 7.5cms, either is fine. After that I'll have to lengthen 2mm extra in my right leg, because I naturally have a left femur 2mm longer than the right.
As for my knee bending complication, Dr. Parihar saw me stand on the walker and then told me to pull my knee back and keep my leg straight. Since I can do that on my own, he's not too concerned about it. I'll keep my physio routine on and lengthen to my goal. When I told him I was concerned he'd tell me to stop lengthening, he said that would happen if I couldn't do my exercises and found the pain unbearable. That's when you know the muscles' limit has been reached.
X-Rays
Left leg: http://imgur.com/a/QJRYN
Right leg: http://imgur.com/a/HRgn5
Dat gap ;D
Regarding proportions, I will be fine. My femur is definitely long but even I don't find it weird, I doubt anyone will care about my femur to tibia ratio. My wingspan is 5'4, assuming most 5'5 people have a 5'6-5'7 wingspan and I'm 2-3" lacking, each arm will be 1-1.5" shorter than a regular 5'5 person which is fine too.
To those asking whether the 2.5" difference is noticeable- hell yes it is. For some reason my brain hasn't adjusted to the gain completely. Every time I'm on the walker I look at other people to make sure I've gotten taller. Everything seems to have shrunk, lol. I agree with what previous LLers have said though; there's no euphoria or excitement. The lack of resentment will be your reward(and a fine one that is!)
Also to those asking, a second LL is out of the question for me, for the sake of time, effort, proportions and the fact that I'm content. I would've never cared about height anyway if I wasn't so much shorter than everyone else.
A couple weeks after my lengthening is over, I should be moved onto crutches, the exact time depending on how my consolidation goes. Really looking forward to it. I've been on a 8am-4pm-12am clock for lengthening for months, coupled with 3 hours of physio total in a day. I won't lie and say my experience was very painful or miserable but it certainly doesn't compare to normal life where you can get up and do whatever you want.
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so is the bent temporary or could be permanent?
Temporary.
It's temporary. I had the same issue on my right leg. Took a while to fix though.
Basically my right femur was a few mm shorter than my left at the end of my lengthening, so I took the lengthening machine to California with me- with the doctor's permission- and continued lengthening my right leg. Since I was at home, I didn't have immediate access to physical therapy and those few days of lengthening took an additional month of physio to sort out my tight muscle.
My experience was similar. Between around 30th October and 14th November, my physio was away on vacation so I had to make do with my personal trainer coming twice a day. While it was better than doing it on my own, I guess the leg wasn't exercised how it should have been causing the tightness and the bend.
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It looks like you have not formed much bone yet. I'm actually slightly worried by your x-rays. Does Dr. Parihar feel growth is reasonable or on low end? There are many ways to boost bone growth you might consider. I'm rooting for you. I apologize if i seem like a hater. Don't want to cause you stress. I'm no doctor, so my view not to be trusted, but my x-rays and my buddies x-rays while lengthening had a lot more bone growth.
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It looks like you have not formed much bone yet. I'm actually slightly worried by your x-rays. Does Dr. Parihar feel growth is reasonable or on low end? There are many ways to boost bone growth you might consider. I'm rooting for you. I apologize if i seem like a hater. Don't want to cause you stress. I'm no doctor, so my view not to be trusted, but my x-rays and my buddies x-rays while lengthening had a lot more bone growth.
He's at 70 days, I don't see anything wrong. I barely had any at that point either
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It looks like you have not formed much bone yet. I'm actually slightly worried by your x-rays. Does Dr. Parihar feel growth is reasonable or on low end? There are many ways to boost bone growth you might consider. I'm rooting for you. I apologize if i seem like a hater. Don't want to cause you stress. I'm no doctor, so my view not to be trusted, but my x-rays and my buddies x-rays while lengthening had a lot more bone growth.
I didn't ask whether it was reasonable or low-end, but he didn't seem concerned so I'm leaving it to his opinion. I won't consider ways of boosting bone growth(besides simpler things like upping my calcium intake) unless I'm a few weeks into consolidation without noticeable callus.
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hey penguinn, I'd ask dr. parihar just in case. your consolidation does seems really slow if you compare to some of the other precise diaries on here that have xrays. upping calcium may help and slowing down lengthening may help too, since you have like zero pre-consolidation risk and might have a long consolidation period ahead of you anyway. might be worth asking Doingitforme too what he thinks about your xrays since he did precise and had very slow consolidation too. I think dr. paley recommended him to slow down lengthening towards the end.
like endgame is saying, I don't mean to be critical either and I'm definitely not an expert. just wanna look out for a fellow LLer
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hey penguinn, I'd ask dr. parihar just in case. your consolidation does seems really slow if you compare to some of the other precise diaries on here that have xrays. upping calcium may help and slowing down lengthening may help too, since you have like zero pre-consolidation risk and might have a long consolidation period ahead of you anyway. might be worth asking Doingitforme too what he thinks about your xrays since he did precise and had very slow consolidation too. I think dr. paley recommended him to slow down lengthening towards the end.
like endgame is saying, I don't mean to be critical either and I'm definitely not an expert. just wanna look out for a fellow LLer
Based on our last meeting, he didn't seem concerned about it. I assume if there was something to tell me, he would. We already decided I'd lengthen the next 1.3cms. However I've sent an email asking about it.
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He's at 70 days, I don't see anything wrong. I barely had any at that point either
so your surgery was smooth and you recovered fast? or not necessary?
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Asked about non-union: http://imgur.com/zP3WDss
I've been avoiding weight bearing/standing as much as possible until 2 weeks ago and I have people to bring me stuff so I used the walker minimally. It's new information to me that standing promotes bone regenerate. I will be lengthening around another cm and then letting it consolidate.
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My advice is to start using the walker as much as possible. It will speed up your recovery a lot.
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Hi Penguinn
I am a 22 yr old male from Delhi, India. I am planning to get unilateral lengthening done on my left leg which is shorter than the right by around 6 cm due to club foot(birth deformity of foot) related surgeries done in the past. The femur region of both legs are equal. All the difference lies in the tibial area.
I met with Dr Parihar 1 year back and he suggested the regular Ilizarov method and LON method but no mention of Precice. I am very much interested in this internal nail method although its a bit too costly for me ( under Rs 15lac is ideal for me). So i want this done only if it gives some major advantage in healing time,less complications etc. And does price reduce for me because i have only one leg to be done ?
If the lengthening is in the tibia and that too of 5-6 cm, do i really need to go for Precice?. Also if i go for femur lengthening i think my tibia:femur ratio will become different in both legs. Is that something that can cause problems? My reason of thinking about femur lengthening is that tibia region of my left leg is very weak due to club foot surgeries while everything above knee is normal.
I urgently want to discuss all this also with Dr Parihar. I am unable to contact him. Can you please PM me his email-id ?.
Good luck with your lengthening :)
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Hi Penguinn
I am a 22 yr old male from Delhi, India. I am planning to get unilateral lengthening done on my left leg which is shorter than the right by around 6 cm due to club foot(birth deformity of foot) related surgeries done in the past. The femur region of both legs are equal. All the difference lies in the tibial area.
I met with Dr Parihar 1 year back and he suggested the regular Ilizarov method and LON method but no mention of Precice. I am very much interested in this internal nail method although its a bit too costly for me ( under Rs 15lac is ideal for me). So i want this done only if it gives some major advantage in healing time,less complications etc. And does price reduce for me because i have only one leg to be done ?
If the lengthening is in the tibia and that too of 5-6 cm, do i really need to go for Precice?. Also if i go for femur lengthening i think my tibia:femur ratio will become different in both legs. Is that something that can cause problems? My reason of thinking about femur lengthening is that tibia region of my left leg is very weak due to club foot surgeries while everything above knee is normal.
I urgently want to discuss all this also with Dr Parihar. I am unable to contact him. Can you please PM me his email-id ?.
Good luck with your lengthening :)
PM'd
I wouldn't recommend Precice to you. Nailing the tibia is harder and can cause more complications, which is why they leave the nailing for the femur. You can definitely lengthen 5-6cms on your tibia. What segment you will lengthen will depend on what Parihar says after checking your leg out and see if the tibia is doable. I'll take a guess and say he'll try to fix any existing problems and try to lengthen the tibia. If you can lengthen even 4.5cms you should be good- Dr. Parihar has told me "a 2cm discrepancy in the legs is the point where a patient can decide whether to fix it or not". Below that you can live with and above that means it should be fixed. So after lengthening that much your discrepancy will be minimal.
I imagine having a different femur:tibia ratio in both legs makes walking and quite a few activities weird since the knees are at different places.
And yes, the Precice nail price will be halved for you since it's only one nail. The surgical cost should also be half, but I'm not sure.
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I doubt you are going to listen to my advice and this is probably a waste of time. If I were you Penguinn, I would stop lengthening at 6.5cm. The reason why is that nobody on the planet is going to notice that extra 1cm that will take you to 7.5cm. It's not going to make any difference at all in your life, and will dramatically increase your recovery time and potential for complications.
Stop now and be happy with the length you have. It's simply not worth the risk to have that meaningless 1cm more of height. You can always go back for more on your tibias once you heal up and get used to your new proportions. Always better to play it safe when it comes to LL, than to chase centimeters or try to achieve the goal you set out before your surgery. In the end 1cm more of height is pointless when you already have 6.5cm.
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I doubt you are going to listen to my advice and this is probably a waste of time. If I were you Penguinn, I would stop lengthening at 6.5cm. The reason why is that nobody on the planet is going to notice that extra 1cm that will take you to 7.5cm. It's not going to make any difference at all in your life, and will dramatically increase your recovery time and potential for complications.
Stop now and be happy with the length you have. It's simply not worth the risk to have that meaningless 1cm more of height. You can always go back for more on your tibias once you heal up and get used to your new proportions. Always better to play it safe when it comes to LL, than to chase centimeters or try to achieve the goal you set out before your surgery. In the end 1cm more of height is pointless when you already have 6.5cm.
Honestly, I see no reason to stop. Things are still painless for me, as of 6.6cms(6.45 if you believe the Precice machine). I get 8 hours of sleep. If I had a lot of pain and couldn't work my muscles during physio I would have stopped. I think it's the age, because Morrisette and Asian123 who are also very young did 3" on their tibias, with externals and seem to be doing fine. My doctor, who's already cautious and prefers function over length, has given me the green signal. My proportions won't look noticeably off with the extra cm. Aside from slight knee bending on the right, which hasn't gotten worse over the past few weeks, I'm fine.
1cm isn't meaningless; it's almost half an inch. Also, going back for more on my tibias isn't that easy. It's not like ordering a second helping at a restaurant. This process takes a lot of time, effort and money and I honestly can't be arsed do it again. Worst case scenario, I'd settle for what I have. I agree that 6.5cms is a life changing gain. But again, I'm listening to my body and I haven't seen any significant indicators of needing to cut my goal short.
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i'm 100 % with you bro !!!! Good luck hope you're fine and your scars are ok . :D
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How are you Penguinn? All right? How many mm already got? Good luck
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How are you Penguinn? All right? How many mm already got? Good luck
My lengthening is done. Somewhere around 7.35 according to the machine's measurement. However, I was told that during lengthening my left leg fell 2mm behind. Now my right leg was naturally 2mm shorter so my legs are equal. Depending on the amount lengthened, which I will know on Monday, I'll lengthen a bit more or stay consolidating.
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Probably this has been the painless experience I have read with Precice, not even Paley has had patients with almost 0 pain. I dont know if age was the main factor or that the doctor is very careful( your operation was completed in 10 hours). I am jealous ;D ;D .
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Happy for you bro wish you the best for your recovery and your futur life . Enjoy ;D
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Lucky bastard ;) I wish a external with parihar will be easy for me but I know that wont be the case :'(
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Bander, LON is an option, the time in frames is 1/3 from conventional external fixation.
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@Penguinn - Congratulations man. You pulled it off.
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Thank you :) I think I have 2mm left though. I hope I can walk unaided at least sometime in Feb.
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Bander, LON is an option, the time in frames is 1/3 from conventional external fixation.
That is what I am going to do but I doubt it will be as comfortable experience as his was. And I will probably be 25 by then not too young or old. I wonder how I will fare.
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I continue wondering myself if is really possible sleeping with external frames.
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Lengthening done, and till now, it has been an almost painless experience.
Bro, can you do us all a favour: Ask Dr. Parihar, in his honest opinion, taking into consideration all facts, what does he think is the reason for your almost painless experience? Maybe we can emulate it, like if its due to flexibility or something like that?
Secondly, towards the end of the lengthening phase, did you increase your intake of painkillers?
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Lengthening done, and till now, it has been an almost painless experience.
Bro, can you do us all a favour: Ask Dr. Parihar, in his honest opinion, taking into consideration all facts, what does he think is the reason for your almost painless experience? Maybe we can emulate it, like if its due to flexibility or something like that?
Secondly, towards the end of the lengthening phase, did you increase your intake of painkillers?
I'll ask him at our next meeting. You said he told you Precice was the reason, but I think age plays a bigger role, because older Precice patients have had pain whereas young external patients have had smooth experiences. Or a combination of both. I was somewhat flexible(I could touch all my fingers to the ground while keeping my knees straight) but certainly not a gymnast. My pain tolerance isn't above average either.
No, I haven't taken painkillers for as long as I can remember. Most of my aches were/are during physio, I was a cool cucumber sitting still and playing video games.
As of now, my knee bending issue is slightly better and I'll post the X-Rays from Monday when I get them. Callus has improved a bit too. My left leg's achilles tendon area feels tender during some exercises and my quads feel very slightly tight in some situations for 2 seconds before I work it off. I'm happy with where I'm at.
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Hey Penguinn. Can you give us an update on your consolidation and any visits to Dr. Parihar that you might have had?
:)
And, compared to the lengthening phase, what all do you find different now?
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Hey Penguinn. Can you give us an update on your consolidation and any visits to Dr. Parihar that you might have had?
:)
And, compared to the lengthening phase, what all do you find different now?
I got last time's X-Rays but not the 19th December ones. I've been lazy with posting updates but I'll get to it.
-I've lengthened 7.3 apparently, so I'll do an mm or 2 more. The machine reached it's limit(it was manually set as 14.8) and we'll have to reset it first.
-I fixed my knee bending issue, but I have a bit of duck ass. I think it's taking my total height a cm down. I'm lying on my stomach for an hour every day. I have all the time in the world to get rid of it, so I'm not too concerned. Muscle strength and flexibility is decent.
-Callus has improved and for further improvement, I was told to stand more and walk around with the walker a little.
-I do my physio routine once a day instead of twice, which might slow my muscle strengthening. Admittedly I've gotten lazy.
-I can honestly say my pain is 0/10 right now, aside from my left achilles tendon area which is tender sometimes while moving and exercising. That's from resting my leg on it for too long.
-Sleep's still good, but it's impossible to have absolutely deep, lost in the abyss sleep without waking up for a single second throughout, probably until I'm consolidated and 100%.
-The biggest difference is obviously the height. I don't think about it anymore and my mind still hasn't fully adjusted to being taller.
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Hey, I've heard that a couple of lengtheners experienced that the amount they lengthened doesn't translate eqally to the amount they became taller. For example, they lengthened 7 cms but only grew 5 cms in height. Did you experience the same? Best regards.
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Yeah, I was measured as 2cm shorter than I should be because when it was done, my knee bending and hip took away my height- also it was done with a book against a wall in an unreliable fashion. I was accurately measured before the surgery in multiple clinics so I've no doubts what height I am.
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Yeah, I was measured as 2cm shorter than I should be because when it was done, my knee bending and hip took away my height- also it was done with a book against a wall in an unreliable fashion. I was accurately measured before the surgery in multiple clinics so I've no doubts what height I am.
But these issues were only temporary, so when you fully recover, the amount you lengthened should be equal to the amount you will gain, or not?
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But these issues were only temporary, so when you fully recover, the amount you lengthened should be equal to the amount you will gain, or not?
Yeah, of course.
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Yeah, I was measured as 2cm shorter than I should be because when it was done, my knee bending and hip took away my height- also it was done with a book against a wall in an unreliable fashion. I was accurately measured before the surgery in multiple clinics so I've no doubts what height I am.
Hey Penguinn,
Obviously things are quite different between your case and mine (internal-external), but when I had the wires removed from around my knee I 'gained' about 2 cm afterwards.
-Glad to hear things are going smooth for you.
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-I've lengthened 7.3 apparently, so I'll do an mm or 2 more. The machine reached it's limit(it was manually set as 14.8) and we'll have to reset it first.
How long have you been stuck at 7.3 and why?
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How long have you been stuck at 7.3 and why?
I lengthened 2mm more. The machine reached its set limit and had to be adjusted to allow more lengthening.
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I lengthened 2mm more. The machine reached its set limit and had to be adjusted to allow more lengthening.
Yes, but how many days gap was there?
And so, now are you officially in the consolidation phase?
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Yes, but how many days gap was there?
And so, now are you officially in the consolidation phase?
I guess a little over 10 days. I didn't lengthen for 8 days so I could fix my knee, then I lengthened for a day and the machine had an error so it took more time.
Yes, officially no more lengthening. ;D Callus has improved a bit but I've been lazy with standing and walking.
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I have a doubt, after surgery can you wash you teeth immediately?? I dont know very much about the post-operation process.
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I have a doubt, after surgery can you wash you teeth immediately?? I dont know very much about the post-operation process.
That's a strange concern, lol. I didn't brush for 2 days after my surgery. As soon as you can sit up, you should be able to.
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Hey, penguin do you have a timeline yet of how long the consolidation period will last?
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Hey, penguin do you have a timeline yet of how long the consolidation period will last?
Nope. I should know more after the next X-Ray but I'm being lazy with standing; it'll probably take more time.
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Hello penguin, congratulations on your lengthening , you're very lucky ,
I asked doctor parihar about precise 2 but they say rates are 28 lakh for machine and 10 lakh extra for the operation ..how is that possible ?
How much exactly did they charge you ?
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28? That's weird. They don't control the price of the nails; you sort that with the local distributor. Parihar & co. only control the surgery price which is about 10L.
Far as I remember it was 10 lakh for the surgery, 23 lakh for the nails and 2-3 lakh deposit for the Precice machine.
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28? That's weird. They don't control the price of the nails; you sort that with the local distributor. Parihar & co. only control the surgery price which is about 10L.
Far as I remember it was 10 lakh for the surgery, 23 lakh for the nails and 2-3 lakh deposit for the Precice machine.
What's with the bone marrow thing with precise 2?
Will this effect on a bad side ?
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Hey Penguinn. Can you give us an update on how your range of motions are? How's the consolidation phase? Any pain? What's your diet like?
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Hey Penguinn. Can you give us an update on how your range of motions are? How's the consolidation phase? Any pain? What's your diet like?
My flexibility and muscle strength is pretty good. When I do the exercise in this picture: http://round-earth.com/images/Knee-Vastus-Test.jpg my ankle is an inch or so away from touching my butt. I think that's how much normal people can do too, except they can pull it back to touch the butt with their arms and I can't until consolidation.
The only pain I have is a slight dull pain in my left achilles sometimes. The area was very tender and painful for 10 days+ a while ago, a sudden jerk would send a current through me. It stayed the same and suddenly reduced drastically. Now it's not a hindrance.
I've been eating quite a lot of junk food for a long time. Pop corn, some coke, a packet of Lays now and then, a pizza now and then. I'm still slacking with standing. I was told to walk with the walker a little and stand thrice a day, I've barely walked and I stand once or twice a day. In a week or so I'll go to Mangal Anand and see how my callus is coming. If it's very disappointing, I'll up my game.
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Are you on any pain meds?
And do you have any indication on when you'll be able to walk unassisted?
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Hello pennguin, if you can, answer me
If you had a job where you had to spend most of the time sitting in front of the computer and sometimes needed to get up to get documents you had to climb some stairs, would you be able to do those activities right now?
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Are you on any pain meds?
And do you have any indication on when you'll be able to walk unassisted?
No and no.
Hello pennguin, if you can, answer me
If you had a job where you had to spend most of the time sitting in front of the computer and sometimes needed to get up to get documents you had to climb some stairs, would you be able to do those activities right now?
Sitting in front of the computer, yes.
Getting up now and then to get stuff, no. Both my hands are occupied with the walker when I'm standing or walking.
Climb stairs, hell no. Well maybe you could with crutches and it'd take forever, but I wouldn't try it in this situation.
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What exactly is the level of your mobility now?
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What exactly is the level of your mobility now?
I get around the house with a walker.
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Ok bro, please be careful while walking around.. there are one too many instances of people falling down while consolidating and then taking months to heal.
It's been a smooth journey for you till now and I hope you're jumping about the house on a skipping rope a few months from now! :P
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I will. :) In fact after Dr says I can walk(and he's already careful so he'll give me a later date), I'll wait a few weeks. I can't wait to walk and be fully independant but I'm taking zero chances.
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What is the maximum weight you should have before surgery??
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hi i just wanna say congrats for taking this operation and being the first to undertake precise 2 under dr parihar. i was researching precise 2 and was excited to come across your diary as you are active and presently undertaking this (most of the diaries i was coming across were all old or archived)
i am very very happy for you and i am eager as to follow your progress as you grow esp since you are doing 6+cm.
i am in the middle of saving up for myself as well
im looking to have mines started by the summer of this year being accompanied with a very close friend
i have been reading thru so i have very minimal questions (i try to stay as well informed as i can) but i just wanted to ask is it possible to get dr parihar's email via private message? it would be much appreciated, thank you
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Update: 4 months post-op
I went to Mangal Anand a week ago and everything's fine except the callus formation is really slow and improvement is minimal. I got very lazy with standing/walking in January so it was expected. I've upped it to an hour a day from a measly 10 minutes a day(yes, I actually did that..) because if I went down that path it'd lead to serious complications. I literally almost wasted a month. Even with doing a lot of standing and walking, I'll probably get my fully formed bone and be cleared to walk unaided later than usual.
My right leg, muscle wise is awesome and my left is decent with some lag while doing exercises. Throughout this procedure I've had one good leg and one bad leg and they switch randomly. I wouldn't call my left a "bad leg" but the right is definitely better.
I'll update whenever. Life is uneventful as of now.
What is the maximum weight you should have before surgery??
I don't think there is a fixed weight since bigger nails are used for taller people/people with bigger bones and they can take more weight. You'd have to ask your doctor at the time of surgery.
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cool 8)
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Quick update: I asked Dr. Divya what the extra little scars on my thigh were and turns out my IT bands were released during the surgery. I'll include all this when I write a summary of my experience eventually.
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Penguin, you said you paid 33 lakhs, but Dr Parihar puts 28 lakhs as the price.
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Update: 4.5 months post-op
So as you guys know, I'd gotten very lazy with weight bearing(walking) until Jan end and my callus was poor. I was pretty worried I'd need bone marrow injections or a graft, but I've upped the walking and thankfully, my callus has improved in 2 weeks. I wasted a lot of weeks that I should've spent walking 30+ minutes a day. Don't be like me. I'll be at least 6 months post op(March 20) before I walk unaided, which I'm ok with because of how well things have gone but you might not be. I'll post the X-Rays when I get them.
Penguin, you said you paid 33 lakhs, but Dr Parihar puts 28 lakhs as the price.
That's what I had also calculated the price to be. I think importing the Precice nails includes a sh*t ton of tax.
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No pictures. This diary is fraud. And xray pic does not count
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No pictures. This diary is fraud. And xray pic does not count
Aw damn dr.cum is striking again.
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No pictures. This diary is fraud. And xray pic does not count
Because anyone can fake X Ray pics, amIrite? ;)
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I wouldn't take this guy seriously... If you check this guy past posts and way of thinking, you could see something is off
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What do you exactly mean by 'walk unaided'? Does this mean doing regular daily chores/activities with no crutches or help, such as going to a store or work/office, walk up and down stairs...like a normal person? If the answer is no or not so simple, then can you please explain various stages, precautions and average durations between where you are now to where you will be able to walk like a normal person? Note: I'm not asking about strenuous physical activities such as weight lifting, etc.
thanks for your diary and sharing useful information!
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What do you exactly mean by 'walk unaided'? Does this mean doing regular daily chores/activities with no crutches or help, such as going to a store or work/office, walk up and down stairs...like a normal person? If the answer is no or not so simple, then can you please explain various stages, precautions and average durations between where you are now to where you will be able to walk like a normal person? Note: I'm not asking about strenuous physical activities such as weight lifting, etc.
thanks for your diary and sharing useful information!
I mean doing daily chores and walking around like a normal person would without the worry of the nail snapping. I can only do this once the callus is very thick and hardens. I don't think there's a big difference between walking to the store or doing the laundry once your new bone has formed and you're cleared to walk.
Stages? I'm using the walker, and I might be transitioned to crutches once the callus is thicker, or I may not. I'm indifferent and I actually prefer the walker. Then I'll be cleared to walk without any support. I'm guessing I'll be walking in the house itself for 2 weeks or so before I go out.
For precautions, stand on two weighing scales with a walker and practice how much weight you're putting on your legs(for me, it should be 25kg-25kg max which isn't a big problem cause I'm 60kgs) and the rest goes on your arms. While walking, put both legs ahead at once putting the weight on your arms when you do it. NEVER walk by putting one leg on the floor while the other is in the air because it'll take all the weight. This applies for Precice. I can't say what it's like with a weight bearing nail. For sitting on a chair or getting up from it(only sit on chairs with arm rests btw so you can use those to propel yourself up) you might need someone to boost you up or you might be able to do it yourself. This applies to the toilet as well. If you aren't using this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/aplusautomation/vendorimages/b78334b6-4d66-47af-b735-976dbbbcec73.jpg._CB334988178_.jpg by itself, you can remove the bucket and place the thing on your bathroom's commode so you have an arm rest, it's higher and you can get up easier.
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A question: if you lengthen 7 cm you gain the same??
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I lengthened more, but my gained height shows 0.5cms(5mm) less than the lengthened amount thus far. If I have someone push my back in hard and measure, it shows the proper height so maybe it's the duck ass. I measured as 3cms(yes, 3cms) less thanks to the duckass in December and as it has gone my height's "increased".
I'm also not off the walker yet so I don't know how straight I'm actually standing. I'll let you know the accurate answer to this in a few months.
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Sounds like you will be walking like a normal person after roughly 6 months (post surgery).
When I asked this question to Dr. Parihar, he said 10-12 months. Dr. Paley on the other hand says...6 months.
And how did you get duck-ass? Because you have not been walking / exercising much?
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Sounds like you will be walking like a normal person after roughly 6 months (post surgery).
When I asked this question to Dr. Parihar, he said 10-12 months. Dr. Paley on the other hand says...6 months.
And how did you get duck-ass? Because you have not been walking / exercising much?
6 months is minimum, because I didn't do much of weight bearing for a long time. People who stand regularly(with support obviously) from Month 1 will walk unaided much sooner, provided they can. Also Dr. Parihar will always give you the bad case scenario so you're prepared. He told me 9 months till I walk unaided after surgery when I first asked him.
My duck ass wasn't nearly as bad as I've seen other people post pics of, but it just happened. I honestly have no idea how it formed. The good news is you can sort it out by just lying on your stomach for an hour a day for a month or so, so it wasn't a big deal for me.
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How's everything going?
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Can you tell me the wingspan?
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How's everything going?
Good. Nothing worth updating every 3 days or so.. I'll update monthly on the callus, when I walk unaided and that's about all that's left.
Can you tell me the wingspan?
5'4
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My arm is shorter than my height . I don't know what I should do
Wingspan 157cm
height 160cm
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My arm is shorter than my height . I don't know what I should do
Wingspan 157cm
height 160cm
I've read that going 8cms over your wingspan is where you start to look noticeably odd. Theoretically, you could go for 165cms, but you should decide based off your own mockups.
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Update: I still do have duck ass. It's not gone as much as I thought it was, and it makes me measure 1cm lower than what I should measure as. It's like the guy in this picture:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMMgSlNyvgAN5I-I7zMngDBvAR3g6tYku7Scn-LWsbN72MMG8C
It's not severe, but it needs to go asap. Lying on my stomach for an hour or so a day hasn't done much(it's been 2 months). The annoying part is that most exercises to get rid of duck ass I can't do until I'm fully consolidated and walking/exercising like a normal person. I've pre-poned my next appointment to talk about it, but I have a feeling it's gonna take months to go. >:(
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Just dropping by to wish you good luck with the LL process. Duck ass isn't as big of a deal in my opinion as some of the other things. I remember that when I was done with LL, my butt was non-existent. And then my walking gait was off. My duck ass wasn't as bad, because I stretched a lot each day. Laying on my stomach isn't what got rid of my duck ass. I had to do this stretch where lay down at the end of the bed, butt to the edge, and then let your legs drop to the floor. I was able to touch the floor with my foot, one leg at a time. And then did this everyday to really stretch out those muscles/tendons that connect your belly to your legs. Duck ass happens when that part isn't stretched out enough, so you can't straighten yourself.
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Just dropping by to wish you good luck with the LL process. Duck ass isn't as big of a deal in my opinion as some of the other things. I remember that when I was done with LL, my butt was non-existent. And then my walking gait was off. My duck ass wasn't as bad, because I stretched a lot each day. Laying on my stomach isn't what got rid of my duck ass. I had to do this stretch where lay down at the end of the bed, butt to the edge, and then let your legs drop to the floor. I was able to touch the floor with my foot, one leg at a time. And then did this everyday to really stretch out those muscles/tendons that connect your belly to your legs. Duck ass happens when that part isn't stretched out enough, so you can't straighten yourself.
Thank you. This video on getting rid of the pelvic tilt/duck ass is probably the best info I've found online:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEn61BL4Nwk
But I won't be able to do any of this until I'm fully consolidated. I hope duck ass doesn't set itself for life in a few months so I get my posture and hopefully the extra little height back. I'll give your exercise a try in the meantime.
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I lost my duck as when i started walking without crutches in around 3 weeks.
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I lost my duck as when i started walking without crutches in around 3 weeks.
That's reassuring. :)
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Hi Penguinn,
I hope you are doing fine.
I actually underwent limb lengthening with a doctor in New delhi. It's been 7.5 months since 1st surgery and 5 months since frame removal. I have equinus/ballerina in my right feet. It's not at all going away. I consulted other doctors too and they say I need to go Achilles Tendon lengthening surgery. But. ATL causes long term weakness and Dr.Paley told me not to go for it. He said he can fix the issue by using external fixator.
I wanted to consult Dr.Parihar and seek his opinion. Could you please let me know how I can reach out to Dr.Parihar directly ?
Can u please send me your email ID too talk to you directly if you don't mind ?
Thank you
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Paley says that ATL cases permanente weakness of the Achilles tendon and his profesor Catagni says that is a lie, who I believe to?
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I had duck ass. I cured it by sleeping with my legs elevated e.g. i put my legs on a pillow or two.
I also did yoga stretches for ATP every day (YouTube them there's tons).
I cured it in about 3 months.
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Hi Penguinn, how is your recovery going?
Paley says that ATL cases permanente weakness of the Achilles tendon and his profesor Catagni says that is a lie, who I believe to?
There are numerous sources confirming that ATL does indeed lessen elasticity meaning there is a substantial drop in power output. Logically, there is no way that lengthening the Achilles tendon would be as strong as before.
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Don't be like me. I'll be at least 6 months post op(March 20) before I walk unaided, which I'm ok with because of how well things have gone but you might not be. I'll post the X-Rays when I get them.
Hi Penguinn, If you had been religious with the walking, how long would it have been instead of the now estimated 6 months post-op? Would that duration be lesser for me since I'm doing only 5-5.5 cms?
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Hi Penguinn, how is your recovery going?
Same ol' same ol'. No pain, just gotta walk for callus.
Hi Penguinn, If you had been religious with the walking, how long would it have been instead of the now estimated 6 months post-op? Would that duration be lesser for me since I'm doing only 5-5.5 cms?
It's gonna be more than 6 months post-op, and I have no idea but it would've definitely been sooner. I wasn't walking/weight bearing during lengthening too because they didn't want to risk pre-consolidation. At 2" the duration will definitely be lesser. In fact at age 21, doing 2" with Precice- your experience barring the first few weeks should be a breeze..but let's not jinx it.
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How much would Dr Parihar allow someone to lengthen their tibia with precise? I understand he allows 8 cm for femur but only allows max 6 cm for external tibia, so does that mean he only allows 6 cm internal tibia with precise?
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Internal tibia is a bad idea.
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How much would Dr Parihar allow someone to lengthen their tibia with precise? I understand he allows 8 cm for femur but only allows max 6 cm for external tibia, so does that mean he only allows 6 cm internal tibia with precise?
No idea, sorry. I don't even know if he'll do internal tibia. You'll have to email him.
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Before doing tibia you should do femurs, If you think there too long do 5 cm.
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did you get x-rays again? It's been like 2 months since you got your last ones, right?
and a side question: since you're from Mumbai do you speak to everyone in Hindi or English?
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did you get x-rays again? It's been like 2 months since you got your last ones, right?
and a side question: since you're from Mumbai do you speak to everyone in Hindi or English?
I got mine around end-Feb, I've just been lazy with updates. I'll upload the ones I get next time.
Doctors: English, nurses/wardboys: Hindi.
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Is internal tibia too risky?I mean if a person wouldnt prefer femurs and also externals,i think internal tibia is the last option,but the question is how dangerous is it?
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Is internal tibia too risky?I mean if a person wouldnt prefer femurs and also externals,i think internal tibia is the last option,but the question is how dangerous is it?
Afaik internal tibias comparing to the other segments have risk of a permament knee pain.
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Thank you for the answer penguinn but I have another question. How much money did you have in reserve for complications in case they came up? And how much would you recommend I have in reserve if I go with Parihar? Would 10K be enough?
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Thank you for the answer penguinn but I have another question. How much money did you have in reserve for complications in case they came up? And how much would you recommend I have in reserve if I go with Parihar? Would 10K be enough?
How much ever, because my parents paid for the surgery. Yeah, 10K should be enough imo.
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Also do you think there is a way I could get around having to give Parihar a contact who must know I am doing the surgery or is it really a must?
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Also do you think there is a way I could get around having to give Parihar a contact who must know I am doing the surgery or is it really a must?
I don't think you could avoid that, no.
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For how much time one can not walk or perform daily activities after precise 2 nail removal.
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Hey penguinn is 3 months enough for the day of surgery to lengthening and to the point when I would be able to walk normally. Because I can only have 3 months before my admission in MBBS. My age is 18 years. Height 5 '3'.
I belong to a rich family (earning around 4-5 crore a year) but I want to know how did you convinced your parents for this surgery. I am scared to even tell about this surgery to my parents due to its cost and dangers.
It would be better to do with Paley or Parihar.
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What is dr guichet email?
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Hey penguinn is 3 months enough for the day of surgery to lengthening and to the point when I would be able to walk normally. Because I can only have 3 months before my admission in MBBS. My age is 18 years. Height 5 '3'.
I belong to a rich family (earning around 4-5 crore a year) but I want to know how did you convinced your parents for this surgery. I am scared to even tell about this surgery to my parents due to its cost and dangers.
It would be better to do with Paley or Parihar.
3 months should be enough for lengthening. No way you will walk properly in 3 months. If you have somewhere important to be in 3 months, forget about it.
Parihar is great but if you can afford Paley (4-5cr a year means you easily can) go for it.
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What is dr guichet email?
Stop spamming the same thing on different threads.
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Says the guy that does not have a single picture of his operation other than fake x-rays. And give me the email so i can stop spam then. I know almost everyone have it on this forum ffs
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Can't you just look at his web page? seriously...
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Can't you just look at his web page? seriously...
Maybe i already did that. You can send in email but his adress is not visible. And he has new email all after he got an assistant. So give me adress whoever has it. Makes more trouble writing bull instead of answering a simple question...seriously..
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Says the guy that does not have a single picture of his operation other than fake x-rays. And give me the email so i can stop spam then. I know almost everyone have it on this forum ffs
k
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k
Did i fk up your future plans now. Lol go there if you want im going guichet. No sweat of my back
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Did i fk up your future plans now. Lol go there if you want im going guichet. No sweat of my back
Who cares doe
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Who cares doe
Dont be jelly now
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This is the mail: info@drguichet.com Dr Guichet or Alisha his Office Manager answer it at the time they see fit. You are rude and annoying. As a patient of Dr. Guichet, I hope I don't see you in Milan.
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Dont be jelly now
Ye wasting 70k euro for a medieval torture device is my life dream
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This is the mail: info@drguichet.com Dr Guichet or Alisha his Office Manager answer it at the time they see fit. You are rude and annoying. As a patient of Dr. Guichet, I hope I don't see you in Milan.
Thx bro, dont worry going london. Been thinking about milan since it seems cheaper. But nothing like havinf 24/7 support by guichet next door.
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The pain is not a lot... the boredom however... :/
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Ye wasting 70k euro for a medieval torture device is my life dream
Fk the price just get it done. Could be 1 million who cares
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Thx bro, dont worry going london. Been thinking about milan since it seems cheaper. But nothing like havinf 24/7 support by guichet next door.
24/7 support hahhahahah how naive, I almost died laughing. Still, let's stop spamming. Respect for Penguinn!
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For pingviiin!!! 8)
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Says the guy that does not have a single picture of his operation other than fake x-rays. And give me the email so i can stop spam then. I know almost everyone have it on this forum ffs
That's not the way to go about asking for a doctor's e-mail. Last warning.
8 ) Taking a thread off topic
Do not derail threads with posts that are not related to the topic of the discussion. Post into a relevant topic or send a PM to interested parties.
9) Getting into an heated argument with someone
Similar to taking a thread off topic, start a private conversation with that person in a civil manner.
10) Hogging the Forum
Constantly replying to a thread (or multiple threads) by repeating the same points and not adding anything new to the discussion.
Don't go around claiming someone's X-Rays are fake for absolutely no reason. Anyone that's a Parihar patient past or future(Kilo, Mtall) knows I'm real. You're not entitled to invading people's privacy if they don't wanna post pictures, and you're not entitled to Guichet's e-mail on random threads.
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Seeing that slim tim's post history, it's pretty obvious that the guy is a mentally off... Don't think anyone gonna see him anywhere during their LL since he won't be doing any
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Hey penguinn please help me bro. Will 3 and 1/2 month enough for to recover fully(ie. Walking normaly) when I go with doctor guichet.
Is guichet's method painfull in comparison to precise 2 of dror paley.
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Hey penguinn please help me bro. Will 3 and 1/2 month enough for to recover fully(ie. Walking normaly) when I go with doctor guichet.
Is guichet's method painfull in comparison to precise 2 of dror paley.
I have never heard of a Guichet patient walking unaided within 3 and a half months but if we're going for record quick recoveries, I think he has had some great cases. I'm guessing you plan on doing 3". 3 and a half months is WAY too less for LL(even for 2".. heck even for 1"). Understand that even a super ideal best case scenario will not have you walking like a normal person within that time.
With a nail like Precice, lengthening will take 1mm a day x 75 days = 2.5 months, around 3 months if you take break days/don't start lengthening immediately. That's when your consolidation phase STARTS. That takes a few months depending on what you do. All this is not considering complications.
No sane doctor is going to take you as a patient if you tell them you have only 3.5 months. Your only choices are either to postpone whatever you wanted to do in 3 months or do LL another time. There's simply no way around this for you.
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Thanks a lot penguinn for answering my query. I am gonna pospond my plan of LL and do this after my graduation.
I hope at that time precice 3 would be available.
So now I am gonna buy some lifts like addheight which i have see on youtube.
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I have never heard of a Guichet patient walking unaided within 3 and a half months but if we're going for record quick recoveries, I think he has had some great cases. I'm guessing you plan on doing 3". 3 and a half months is WAY too less for LL(even for 2".. heck even for 1"). Understand that even a super ideal best case scenario will not have you walking like a normal person within that time.
With a nail like Precice, lengthening will take 1mm a day x 75 days = 2.5 months, around 3 months if you take break days/don't start lengthening immediately. That's when your consolidation phase STARTS. That takes a few months depending on what you do. All this is not considering complications.
No sane doctor is going to take you as a patient if you tell them you have only 3.5 months. Your only choices are either to postpone whatever you wanted to do in 3 months or do LL another time. There's simply no way around this for you.
Hi Penguiin! I've seen a lot of patients walking unaided very soon. For example, they lengthened 6 cm in 55 days aprox, but they start walking a little without crutches one week before that. The people who had the surgery before me, are now walking. The case with the best recovery now only uses crutches to go upstairs, but can walk unaided (though he admits he walks like a penguin) less than 3 months post op
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Hi Penguiin! I've seen a lot of patients walking unaided very soon. For example, they lengthened 6 cm in 55 days aprox, but they start walking a little without crutches one week before that. The people who had the surgery before me, are now walking. The case with the best recovery now only uses crutches to go upstairs, but can walk unaided (though he admits he walks like a penguin) less than 3 months post op
That's incredible, but an exception. One simply cannot set a 3 month deadline for their LL, even if there's a small chance they could do it in that time.
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That's incredible, but an exception. One simply cannot set a 3 month deadline for their LL, even if there's a small chance they could do it in that time.
I agree and not only that, walking in less than 3 months does NOT mean walking like a normal human being. I believe that for Dr Guichet patients the duration of REAL recovery is about 6 months.
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Have you measured tour new height or estilo have duckass?
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Have you measured tour new height or estilo have duckass?
Still have a little duckass(<1cm). It won't go until I walk unaided like a normal person and do exercises. I'm not stressed, it's not severe.
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Still have a little duckass(<1cm). It won't go until I walk unaided like a normal person and do exercises. I'm not stressed, it's not severe.
How many months post- operation you're at right now? its better to right details
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How many months post- operation you're at right now? its better to right details
6.5
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6.5
I think its a little bit long, do you think you should be able at least to walk (crippled) after this time?
Do you think if it was Guichet nail which support full weight barring you would be able to walk right now?
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Which diameter of nail you used?? And how did you go from bed yo bathroom?? I guess you were helped but if alone, how do you do It?
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Update: Walking with crutches. Dr. Parihar told me to walk with crutches 2 weeks ago but I took it extra slow and started now. Way harder to use than the walker. I think out of Precice patients I'll start walking the latest, but I have absolutely no regrets.
I think its a little bit long, do you think you should be able at least to walk (crippled) after this time?
Do you think if it was Guichet nail which support full weight barring you would be able to walk right now?
Yeah but I was given less weight bearing during my lengthening and I was a little lazy after. Can't comment about Guichet nail.
Which diameter of nail you used?? And how did you go from bed yo bathroom?? I guess you were helped but if alone, how do you do It?
It's written in my diary somewhere but I think 11mm. I could be wrong.
With the walker! I didn't poop for 2-3 days after my LL cause I barely ate anything. I was helped sit and get up from the bedside camode so I didn't go to the bathroom at first.
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hey penguin
it is sad you have had non-consolidation despite a breezy experience otherwise. i hope it gets better.
do you still have aches and pains from the procedure? were you very muscular in the legs before? i go to the gym and now i am thinking of stopping it to lose some leg muscles.
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hey penguin
it is sad you have had non-consolidation despite a breezy experience otherwise. i hope it gets better.
do you still have aches and pains from the procedure? were you very muscular in the legs before? i go to the gym and now i am thinking of stopping it to lose some leg muscles.
I didn't have non-consolidation/non-union! I never said that. I just had a slower consolidation but the improvement picked up in the past few months and I'm expecting to be allowed to walk unaided in May.
No aches or pains. Only feelings of tiredness in muscles after walking, the kind you get after exercising. I wasn't very muscular but a little in the quads.
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keep walking as much as you can. The nail itself is quite strong and if doc said you should walk keep doing so.
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I didn't have non-consolidation/non-union! I never said that. I just had a slower consolidation but the improvement picked up in the past few months and I'm expecting to be allowed to walk unaided in May.
No aches or pains. Only feelings of tiredness in muscles after walking, the kind you get after exercising. I wasn't very muscular but a little in the quads.
[/quote
What do you mean by walking unaided? is it walking normally without people notice, or just walking without crutches and walkers like a Penguin ?
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keep walking as much as you can. The nail itself is quite strong and if doc said you should walk keep doing so.
My total walking time (w/crutches) is 1 hour a day. Sure, it may be strong but if I break it now I'll legit fall into depression. I have a lot of things planned for the coming months so I'm playing it a little safe. Still doing my weight bearing.
@Kaiser By unaided I mean without crutches.
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sorry i mis understood that you had non-consolidation.
on the whole would you recommend the doctor? has there been any aspect about him and the centre that has not satisfied your expectation? i read about how you were not happy with the hospital in your diary but other than that, are there any other complaints? were they all professional with you?
when i visited two orthos near me to ask about cll they discourage me from doing this. they also sarcastically wished me best of luck as if i am for sure bound to get screwed. they were both amused and found it funny that i need to do this for my height.
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sorry i mis understood that you had non-consolidation.
on the whole would you recommend the doctor? has there been any aspect about him and the centre that has not satisfied your expectation? i read about how you were not happy with the hospital in your diary but other than that, are there any other complaints? were they all professional with you?
when i visited two orthos near me to ask about cll they discourage me from doing this. they also sarcastically wished me best of luck as if i am for sure bound to get screwed. they were both amused and found it funny that i need to do this for my height.
I would recommend Parihar for sure. He didn't give me any complications and dealt with the Precice nail malfunction perfectly in the OT. The hospital is not state of the art barring the OT, but I think someone really determined to do LL can overlook that if they're getting a great surgeon, especially considering other Indian surgeons' track record. They were professional, but to be honest I never experienced what they would behave like if I had a complication since my process went pretty smooth.
I don't know your height, but they do that despite what your starting height is. When I was 5'2, my bloody 6'2 or something endocrinologist scoffed at me wanting LL telling me height doesn't matter. A second endo(female) asked me if I was trying to be a model, cause there's no other reason to get LL at 5'2 ::) Even Parihar, despite being 6'3 or something himself told me that 3 inches wouldn't make an iota of a difference(I think he was just testing my fortitude). If you know for sure that LL will make your life much better, like I did, then you can shrug this bull off. If you're 5'8 or something and having trouble justifying it to yourself already, this will definitely make you more doubtful and it should, it's a perfect sh*t test to weed out the wrong patients.
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Being 5 8" or above Will do more difficult that he accepts you, sh+-, becuase I know that has high technical abilities. What would be your recommendation since you were there for the hurdle( consultation).
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Being 5 8" or above Will do more difficult that he accepts you, sh+-
That's not what I said. I said if you have trouble justifying LL to yourself, and a doctor sh*t tests you like going "You know it won't really help you, right?" it'll confuse you.
becuase I know that has high technical abilities. What would be your recommendation since you were there for the hurdle( consultation).
I recommend not opening up about your sob story and just parroting out something like "I see myself at a level that my height doesn't match". Sadly most doctors can't relate. While it's nice that Parihar isn't just accepting all patients for the $, I think telling a 5'3 guy he needs therapy was lame. Only therapy a 5'3 guy needs is a couple inches.
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penguin
how were in touch with the doctors during lengthening? did you have their phone numbers / whatsapp? or did you just email them?
how many times did you visit the clinic before getting operated? i want to decide how many days plan i should keep to plan and possibly even decide the surgery because i am not in bombay.
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Update: 7 months post op
I'm told it'll be 1 to 1.5 months before I'm allowed to walk unaided (aka without crutches). I can take a few steps unaided right now but my left leg is lagging behind my right, which has consolidated great.
This is what my callus looks like:
Right I: https://ibb.co/hzwwMQ
Right II: https://ibb.co/gY1ro5
Left (the bad side): https://ibb.co/dDvHT5
Left (the relatively good side): https://ibb.co/mjwwMQ
I'm way behind the norm when it comes to walking unaided after internal LL. Life is so stagnant; I can't fathom how people go for a second LL after going through this once. I can promise you once you do LL, you'll never take walking for granted. It's still 100% worth it, never thought otherwise- just wish I was walking like a normal person already. I'm glad I kept a lot of time aside for this. I hope this serves as a reminder that the procedure may take longer than you expect, even when things go smoothly, so respect the possibility of slow consolidation and set a big time frame.
On the bright side, I can take care of a lot of daily activities on crutches and there's a ton of improvement in consolidation with every X-Ray. In Jan, I had almost no callus. Left leg needs to speed the fk up though! For me, LL has been less about endurance and more about patience.
I've bought some weights and started lifting (while laying on the bed obviously) and gone on a diet to get back in shape. No excuses now, I'm more than 80% normal. Some lucky bastards said they lost weight during LL so I stuffed myself with junk food and soda every day (literally every day) thinking nothing would happen and gained like 3-4 kgs. It's not even just what the weighing scale says, I know I've gotten fatter cause I lost a lot of muscle in this process and my weight has still gone up.
Thank god for video games and Youtube. Can't imagine how boring this would've been without them.
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penguin
how were in touch with the doctors during lengthening? did you have their phone numbers / whatsapp? or did you just email them?
how many times did you visit the clinic before getting operated? i want to decide how many days plan i should keep to plan and possibly even decide the surgery because i am not in bombay.
They were in touch cause we could contact the assistant doctors on Whatsapp if it was important, or mail them and get a reply within a few days if it wasn't. I visited the clinic 3 times before getting operated but honestly once should be enough.
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Did you discuss the possibility of titanium nail insertion so you could get back to walking right after distraction?
That might have expedited the consolidation itself apart from giving the convenience of early normal walking.
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Did you discuss the possibility of titanium nail insertion so you could get back to walking right after distraction?
That might have expedited the consolidation itself apart from giving the convenience of early normal walking.
I don't even know what titanium nail insertion is but there is no way I'd go through or pay for another surgery. I'd rather walk a few months late.
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With Precice, this weight bearing thing is tricky. You can't weight bear until your bones heal, your bones don't heal well until you weight bear. Gotta break this somehow.
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With Precice, this weight bearing thing is tricky. You can't weight bear until your bones heal, your bones don't heal well until you weight bear. Gotta break this somehow.
There's this really cool middle ground called partial weight bearing... i'm doing it as we speak.
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I haven't heard about anyone who would break precise 2 so I actually think it's much stronger than we know. We heard about beztnail braking, guichet nail breaking but not precise 2 and people get them quite often. I'm conviced that the manufacturer plays it safe since the settlements are so huge in the USA and people are plain dumb sometimes.
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hi penguin. i sent you a pm. can you please check? i just had some questions about where to say in bombay and stuff like that.
thank you!
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hi penguin. i sent you a pm. can you please check? i just had some questions about where to say in bombay and stuff like that.
thank you!
I have no idea, cause I'm at my home in Bombay. Try Kilo's diary since he stayed at a hotel near Parihar's.
I haven't heard about anyone who would break precise 2 so I actually think it's much stronger than we know. We heard about beztnail braking, guichet nail breaking but not precise 2 and people get them quite often. I'm conviced that the manufacturer plays it safe since the settlements are so huge in the USA and people are plain dumb sometimes.
As someone who's in one of the final recovery stages, I had 2 bathroom slips on crutches. I didn't fall, but I staggered trying to balance and my good leg(right) saved me. Only my muscles felt a little sore but the nail is fine.
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were you given blood thinners through out your distraction phase or right after surgery (to avoid dvt) ?
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were you given blood thinners through out your distraction phase or right after surgery (to avoid dvt) ?
DVT? And nope, I took only multivitamins and calcium pills throughout distraction.
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Are there any news regarding your consolidation?
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Are there any news regarding your consolidation?
My callus is improving, I've gone out to multiple places on crutches just fine and..yeah that's about all.
Consolidation took way longer than I imagined.
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My callus is improving, I've gone out to multiple places on crutches just fine and..yeah that's about all.
Consolidation took way longer than I imagined.
What's your blood pressure?
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What's your blood pressure?
I have no idea.. last it was taken I was at Mangal Anand.. why?
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I'm asking cos mine is naturally quite low and i also got delay consolidation . My Right tibia is consolidating since 15th September and yesterday in got my frame change. My doc told me that if my more rigid frame won't work he will put a plate to remove the frame.
Anyway i feel that lower blood pressure my correlate with delayed consolidation but i will speak to my doc about it.
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DVT? And nope, I took only multivitamins and calcium pills throughout distraction.
Deep vein thrombosis. I think that's a risk all through the process and most doctors prescribe blood thinners at least at first. Maybe you didn't realize? :)
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Deep vein thrombosis. I think that's a risk all through the process and most doctors prescribe blood thinners at least at first. Maybe you didn't realize? :)
If it was given it was through the IV and I don't know about it. After my third day post-op, I didn't take a single injection.
I'm asking cos mine is naturally quite low and i also got delay consolidation . My Right tibia is consolidating since 15th September and yesterday in got my frame change. My doc told me that if my more rigid frame won't work he will put a plate to remove the frame.
Anyway i feel that lower blood pressure my correlate with delayed consolidation but i will speak to my doc about it.
Huh, that's interesting. I'll have mine taken sometime to check, but every time it's been checked it's come off as totally normal so if it's low, it's normal-range-low. About consolidation, my right is either ready or 95% ready to walk unaided. It's my left leg that's lagging behind.
Edit: Oh, some good news (for me) is that I had to dress in formals for an interview; a shirt tucked in at belt-buckle level, pants and regular formal shoes that gave a 1" lift and absolutely no one, including me could tell that I was disproportionate. Looked like a normal, slightly long legged maybe person. Even my femurs:tibias didn't look off (my current ratio is 0.673) and with shoes on, they were even better proportionally. I wasn't too concerned but I'm glad.
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I've started to walk unaided in small steps every now and then. For "partial" weight bearing (aka walking at home) instead of crutches, I use the walker, but I don't hold the walker. Instead I only keep my thumbs or index fingers on the walker for balance (you put almost zero weight on a walker with just your thumbs) and take steps. Sometimes I walk without a walker or crutches around, but it's in a very controlled environment with someone around and it's just a few steps. There's no real pain, but muscles get tired if I overdo it.
What I've learned so far:
-Precice 2 is sturdy
-You have to push yourself. I was very apprehensive for a lot of time and my left leg was (still is) lagging behind. Little improvement in taking full weight for walking in the left leg in the past few weeks while the right leg is soaring ahead. Taking DoingItForMe's bold decision to walk on his own during his journey as inspiration, I've been doing the thumb-on-walker method for 99% weight bearing and my left leg has improved tremendously in the past 4 days. 4 goddamn days, I kid you not. I'm going to say though that this is just my experience. I am not fully walking unaided without my doctor's permission, and I definitely don't recommend anyone else to either.
-You will have a hip sway to maintain balance. I suppose that goes with time.
I'm hoping that I'm allowed to walk unaided more soon. We'll see after my next x-rays. The worst part about my LL has been the time it's taken. The lifestyle change is so bizarre and I think my mind dissociates from it somewhat. For someone who's very extroverted and doesn't like video games, this would be hell lol. On the bright side, improvement is certain and constant.
Edit: to be more precise, when I tried walking unaided a week or so ago, my left leg's step would be fine (since the strong right leg is the supporting pillar) but the right leg's step would be smaller and hit with a jerk, since the weaker left leg wasn't providing proper support. With the right leg standing, I could take the left step in sort of slow motion, taking a lot of weight and landing a consistent, soft step- but with the left leg standing, the right step would be quick. Now, both steps can be done in slow motion meaning both legs are providing enough support at the time. This improvement has occurred over 3-4 days of pushing my left leg's limits. I'm not pushing it any further, because there is no further (the next step would be to simply walk unaided non stop) and I can't afford to break the nail at this stage.
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glad you're doing well.
I've been doing the thumb-on-walker method for 99% weight bearing and my left leg has improved tremendously in the past 4 days. 4 goddamn days, I kid you not.
how do you know without x-rays?
why don't people lie on the bed and press the wall with their legs for weight bearing? you could attach a weight scale vertically on the wall, measure and be safe, right? (I might be stupid asking this ;D)
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glad you're doing well.
how do you know without x-rays?
why don't people lie on the bed and press the wall with their legs for weight bearing? you could attach a weight scale vertically on the wall, measure and be safe, right? (I might be stupid asking this ;D)
I explained in the Edit how I know the left improved without x rays. It takes weight better. It somehow adjusted, or maybe the muscles improved.
Walking is essential so your legs re learn the walking movements and blood flow increases.
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I don't deny walking is useful, but if there are weight bearing restrictions, just for the goal of fast consolidation, I was thinking of doing that.
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Update: My right leg is full weightbearing. I stood on my right leg only (raised left leg up like a flamingo) for like 8 seconds and not a hint of pain. :) If only my left wasnt lagging behind...sigh....
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Update: I can actually walk pretty fast unaided (for short distances) but with a prominent hip tilt on the left. On crutches till the end of this month, told to use them for balance while loading callus(aka walking) and while going out. When I go out, I only use 1 crutch- in the right hand to balance out the bad(left) leg. My hip sway to the right is minimal.
Before doing LL I used to think walking unaided and walking normal were the same thing or only a few days apart. Boy was I wrong.
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Update: Gait's improving and improvements can be seen every 15 days or so. I can climb stairs unaided (using only my right leg and leaning heavily toward the right as I climb... are people supposed to be able to do this before having a normal gait?) but not too many stairs unless there's a bar I can hold while climbing.
Gait's still wobbly but not as terribly wobbly as it was say, 3 weeks to a month ago.
Me and Dr. Parihar both attribute my left leg's slower recovery to the fact that it was initially operated twice, and has a tiny bone fragment shattered at the base of the femur that's also joining and needing callus along with the lengthened gap's callus. I wish that fragment had just been removed because it unnecessarily caused the callus to fill from a bigger base, resulting in a slower recovery. I'm no doctor but that's what it seems like.
This is what I'm talking about: http://imgur.com/a/kx7wM
I like the improvement it had from April end to May end too, and from how I feel I'm guessing the improvement from May end to June end is more.
My right leg feels great. No stiffness even as soon as I wake up and start walking to the bathroom, unlike the left. Only thing I can't do on my right leg as of now is hop/jump but there's no hurry for that. I just want to resume normal function. It's annoying that I could've been normal (walking wise, stairs wise, basically regular non athletic function wise) by now if my left hadn't been operated twice thanks to a faulty nail. Could be a lot worse though, so I guess I can't complain.
Other X Rays
Right: http://imgur.com/eh9vl68 & http://imgur.com/BRMQeMe
Left (good side): http://imgur.com/a/3VrSI
As you can see, right is miles ahead.
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That left one looks bad buddy. Im not a doctor but there were people with partial non union and it seems like it. Hopefully im wrong and you just need some extra time. I know that Dooghoon is using BMAC (Bone Marrow Aspirate Concentrate) to speed up recovery.
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sorry to hear this penguin. it is has been a long time of recovering for you. at least you do not have any soft tissue or nerve problems which are harder.
it seems like the doctors fault. still, anything can happen with any doctor.
how well do you say the doctor and team look after you now, with such a complication?
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Even if for some reason you have delayed consolidation in the left leg,you have the reverse mechanism in precice 2 (thanks Hell!), dont worry. There is a clear improvement from April to May, If It were nonunion It would be the same, without any change.keep walking!
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I have no idea what you guys are talking about lol. My improvement is constant, so it can't be non-union. There's a lot of improvement in the leg in the last month. I just said it's a shame that it hasn't recovered as fast as the right leg.
I'm walking unaided(only at home for safety reasons). My only complication as of now is a slightly wobbly gait.
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That left one looks bad buddy. Im not a doctor but there were people with partial non union and it seems like it. Hopefully im wrong and you just need some extra time. I know that Dooghoon is using BMAC (Bone Marrow Aspirate Concentrate) to speed up recovery.
You are completely wrong.
The left bone has consolidated less than right but it has still a good bone bridge and there is no way a non union case.
Penguinn everything seems completely fine.
Be a little patient and soon you'll walk completely unaided and fine.
Keep strong!
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You are completely wrong.
The left bone has consolidated less than right but it has still a good bone bridge and there is no way a non union case.
Penguinn everything seems completely fine.
Be a little patient and soon you'll walk completely unaided and fine.
Keep strong!
I was never worried, because I sense the improvement in me every week. ;D
My mom had seen me 2 weeks ago and then just now and says my gait has made a tremendous improvement. I literally walked like a penguin 15 days ago. Now I walk like a normal person who stubbed his left toe or with a small muscle pull in his left leg. I'm overjoyed. Last month I thought my horrible gait would take months to become normal, and now I'm walking with an 80% normal gait after 5 minutes of waking up and walking. (Immediately after waking up is horrible)
Being normal enough to walk and answer the doorbell (albeit slowly) after months of not being able to feels awesome.
However this doesn't last for long. After walking for 5-10 minutes I get tired and the gait keeps getting worse. My gait will get even worse on bumpy ass Indian roads if I go outside. For these reasons, I'll carry a crutch when I go out (also so people don't bump into me). I have my fingers crossed that my gait becomes normal and my muscle's stamina increases in a month. Honestly, this is the easy part of recovery. I don't feel like a handicapped person anymore.
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It's not uncommon for one leg to consolidate slower than the other. My local ortho was convinced that one of my fibulae was going to be incomplete and not completely consolidate and yet after a few weeks of pushing myself to walk more it ended up consolidating even thicker than the other one.
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My gait is improving really well. I can say I walk with a 90% normal gait now- *at home, on a plain surface, for short periods of time
Stamina and walking on rough surfaces should improve with time. It's nice to see improvements every 4 days after not seeing significant improvement for months. I hope this continues.
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[this is my first posting here after weeks of reading]
penguin, thanks a lot for your diary.
you sound like a mature and intelligent young man.
(is english at this high level is common in india?)
stay safe and thanks again for all this contribution.
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Hey Penguinn. Any updates?
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Nothing really. Gait improvement is slow because there's not much left to improve.
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what about your bone consolidation?
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June end X rays showed improvement, not as much as I want though. There has to have been improvement since, because the stiffness pain that I got in my left leg right after getting out of bed has reduced greatly. As in, it doesn't need a 30 second warm up before walking after sitting for a long time. These are the kind of small improvements I've been noticing.
Seeing my gait video I took of 20 June, the improvement isn't slight. It's there alright. (Not uploading the vid)
This is an impatient time in my journey. In the early months, you fully accept your cripple status. Now I'm so close to normalcy, yet so far because the left bone is taking it's sweet time.
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I understand man. Stay strong. I hope you are able to get on with normal life though.
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I'm definitely able to get on with normal life. :) Just.. like a 60 year old lol. It's fine, I was 80 a few weeks ago. I hope to be in my 40s in a month's time.
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Before I forget, I had x-rays taken (haven't got them to upload them yet) and my left leg is definitely improved on the side callus already existed. Dr. believes the other side will most likely fill out horizontally once one side is strong. The leg's getting stronger and my gait is very close to normal. I still give it a few weeks though. Life's gotten busy for me and I don't get to do enough physio/straight line walking. As for the right leg, the callus is picture perfect and strong. No question about that leg. All in all, I'm happy.
I also heard that another patient's done Precice 2 cosmetic femoral lengthening with Parihar as of recent. No diary, so I assume the person wants to stay totally anonymous. If you're reading this, stranger, I wish you all the best in your journey.
One annoying little thing I'd like to report is when I walk long distances, especially if in a hurry, my right sole aches. Surprising because right is the good leg. This is probably from not walking for way too many months.
Another thing I've noticed after paying extra careful attention is gait improvements are up and down, think graph wise, but over time the graph goes up. As in one day you could see that suddenly, starting today, your knee's bending fluidly and properly when you walk, and the next day it's stiffer like it was before- but over time the "good days" increase and the "bad days" decrease until the improvement becomes your reality. It's never as if "Oh it improved, there's no going back to that gait now!" It could be bad the next day again, but over time it improves.
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Can you take a picture on your self please? We have yet too see 1 picture of your procedure. Not x-ray please ;D
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I've said multiple times that I won't post pictures of myself. If an overwhelming majority believed my diary was fake because I only posted like 200 x-rays, I'll have it removed.
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ok, remove it
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I've said multiple times that I won't post pictures of myself. If an overwhelming majority believed my diary was fake because I only posted like 200 x-rays, I'll have it removed.
I vouch for the Penguinn and I really doubt Dr. Parihar is advertising himself unlike some of the other doctors here (you know who I am talking about haha)
Can you take a picture on your self please? We have yet too see 1 picture of your procedure. Not x-ray please ;D
If you want to see nked pictures there are web pages for that haha. You can analyze their proportions also.
ok, remove it
Do you have a diary? I read somewhere that you have problems. We could benefit from knowing what went wrong with you.
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I'm too lazy for a diary but my posts should give a clear idea how risky LL can be.
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I don't think that pics are important. Only x rays are as there we can see much about how successful the LL was.
With pics you only see proportions but this is something subjective most of the times but with x rays you can see the bone alignment, the callus formation, the pin condition and generally everyrhing that is really significant in LL.
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my lower leg look freakishly long after 4 cm. I will post a photo soon.
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It's beyond me how people believe x rays can be faked, but a real life picture that could actually be photoshopped is enough proof.
I'll put this up to a vote: all those in favour of me removing my diary, speak up. I gain nothing from this, I have no problem taking it down. The real sufferers are future patients.
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Any former femur vets who started doing squats and any leg work when their gait was almost 100%, as in, walking wasn't as strong as before but you worked out anyway? How did it affect you?
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Any former femur vets who started doing squats and any leg work when their gait was almost 100%, as in, walking wasn't as strong as before but you worked out anyway? How did it affect you?
I am almost 5 months post op, and Dr. Guichet has allowed me to do everything. I didn't specifically ask if I could go to the gym but I did last week. Did 4 sets of 15 reps of leg extension, and leg curl plus what I always do at the gym 30 min bike, 30 min elliptical and 30 min fast walking. What happened is that in the leg extension machine a bit of my femur was outside the seat and made me feel uncomfortable. I used the second lowest weight and after the last set it started hurting a little (muscular pain). So I stopped. I will wait 6 months post op for a more serious training!
Also when I do side kicks (opening legs) in my left leg I feel slight pain as if I'm feeling the top of the nail against my bone and soft tissues, has it ever happened to you?
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Also when I do side kicks (opening legs) in my left leg I feel slight pain as if I'm feeling the top of the nail against my bone and soft tissues, has it ever happened to you?
What do you mean by side kicks? Raising the leg sideways? Yeah, a slight pinching type sensation but no pain. I haven't done any serious workouts, just physio on the bed and walking.
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Minor update: My gait is now normal, at least to someone that doesn't know anything. I can walk the street and all without anyone noticing. I don't feel perfect in the left leg, although it appears 99%. I feel like 90%, but it gets better every week. I don't worry or bother about it anymore. Gait only becomes off if I'm carrying some weight or I'm tired. Gait is never an issue on even ground, but I still feel a tiny bit conscious about walking on the street(google "Indian roads" and you'll know why).
I stopped physio/1hr a day walking a month ago cause I didn't feel like I needed it anymore. The only thing keeping me from normalcy is that I can't climb stairs with my left leg. ;D Consolidate faster you c*nt. lol
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Be very careful when going outside, especially in places with many people. They might bump into you and make you lose your balance (that actually happened to me a few times the first time I went outside).
Also do you sit down and up normally? or do you help yourself with your hands? Do you feel normal? Even if I can do everything as before the surgery, I still feel a weird sensation around my knee... is it stiffness, the change in biomechanics? I don't know, but I don't feel like before.
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Be very careful when going outside, especially in places with many people. They might bump into you and make you lose your balance (that actually happened to me a few times the first time I went outside).
Also do you sit down and up normally? or do you help yourself with your hands? Do you feel normal? Even if I can do everything as before the surgery, I still feel a weird sensation around my knee... is it stiffness, the change in biomechanics? I don't know, but I don't feel like before.
If the chair is medium height, I get up without hands. Otherwise with. I know exactly what you mean about the sensation, I have it on the left and not on the right. It's tight or weak hamstrings causing stiffness, I think. I feel it at the back of the knee where the hamstring connects to the calf muscle. It'll go away with time. A month ago my left knee bent very little while walking and now it's almost normal.
Ps: I tried climbing stairs with both legs like a normal person and turns out I can climb with the left, but it doesn't feel right. As in I won't get hurt on the first step but if I kept at it, I probably would. Giving it more time.
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Any former femur vets who started doing squats and any leg work when their gait was almost 100%, as in, walking wasn't as strong as before but you worked out anyway? How did it affect you?
Squats put you at greatest risk. Better to start with the leg machine for extensions and curls. Something about the leg being at a 90 degree angle, unsupported, and carrying load makes it more likely to cause injury. For example, when I had my rods removed, Paley said 6 weeks till cleared for anything and everything, but till then no running, jumping or squats, but walking, biking, leg machine for extensions and curls fine. However, I'm not suggesting you should do any leg workouts at the gym yet and trust your doctor to tell you when you can safely begin doing that. I believe more blood flow and exercise will help you consolidate and recover faster. I encourage you to walk more. Best wishes.
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updates? Are you back to full normalcy now?
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Walking completely normal and climbing stairs normally with the right and almost-normally with the left. :) Improvement is constant and I'm happy. Nobody can look at my walking and find anything wrong.
The X-rays are good, but one side of the left is still not how it should be consolidation wise, so I might opt for one of those stimulant injections after waiting a while. That's for jogging/running though and I'm not even sure intervention will be needed. Not too concerned about that, I can wait it out.
I don't update my diary because I don't have anything new to say lol. Hard part's over. Very busy with life. I must say, LL still seems very weird and surreal to me even though I did it. I considered doing a summary of my diary because no newbies will be arsed to read the entire thing, but I'll do it once the nails come out sometime in a year.
Edit: Ooh, before I forget. I was walking normally by the end of August too, but I caught a really high fever(103) that made all my body muscles weak and you can guess which ones were affected the most. So for the next 2 weeks I was basically a month back in recovery time, thankfully I made it back to normalcy quick. It stole about 3 weeks of my time. I can't imagine what would've happened if I had a fever back in my crucial recovery stages. Take care, folks.
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Hi Penguinn, I hope everything is going ok. I was following your diary since last you started. Thank you very much for keeping it updated.
I'm scheduled for LL with Paley on Sept 26 this year.
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Walking completely normal and climbing stairs normally with the right and almost-normally with the left. :) Improvement is constant and I'm happy. Nobody can look at my walking and find anything wrong.
The X-rays are good, but one side of the left is still not how it should be consolidation wise, so I might opt for one of those stimulant injections after waiting a while. That's for jogging/running though and I'm not even sure intervention will be needed. Not too concerned about that, I can wait it out.
I don't update my diary because I don't have anything new to say lol. Hard part's over. Very busy with life. I must say, LL still seems very weird and surreal to me even though I did it. I considered doing a summary of my diary because no newbies will be arsed to read the entire thing, but I'll do it once the nails come out sometime in a year.
Hey man, I'm glad you made it. It's taken about a year, but God's listened to all our prayers that you get out of it in one piece and 7.5 cms taller.
I come to your diary every now and then, and I'm glad its ending this way.
As for me, loose ends still need to be tied up before I do the surgery, but the plan's very much still on. I just hope costs don't suddenly jump before I pay the deposit, lol.
And, if I may ask a question now: how many days/weeks post op do you think your mind/body (both) would allow you to start studying (like for a competitive exam). As in, I'm thinking its a good idea to use my time productively instead of sitting in bed all day in between PT sessions, so I was wondering: is it possible to study during the lengthening phase or are you just so exhausted that you would be better off not making commitments to yourself?
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Hey man, I'm glad you made it. It's taken about a year, but God's listened to all our prayers that you get out of it in one piece and 7.5 cms taller.
I come to your diary every now and then, and I'm glad its ending this way.
As for me, loose ends still need to be tied up before I do the surgery, but the plan's very much still on. I just hope costs don't suddenly jump before I pay the deposit, lol.
And, if I may ask a question now: how many days/weeks post op do you think your mind/body (both) would allow you to start studying (like for a competitive exam). As in, I'm thinking its a good idea to use my time productively instead of sitting in bed all day in between PT sessions, so I was wondering: is it possible to study during the lengthening phase or are you just so exhausted that you would be better off not making commitments to yourself?
Thanks, I never doubted the happy ending, the time it took was just longer than I wanted. Well I won't say happy ending before I'm running.
Depends, how important is this exam to you? With the kind of pain I had, if I really cared about the exam, I could've started studying 4 days post op. But if you're like me you'll feel too lethargic and jaded to study because you'll be constantly thinking about LL. It's super hard to focus on long term goals when your short term goals, especially health are on the line. In theory, a few days/one week post op if your pain is like mine.
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Wait a minute. I don't believe this question didn't come into my mind till now, but:
After LL, are most of your hours spent lying down, or can you sit up if you want to? Like on a couch, not on the bed.
Can you sit at a study table with a comfortable chair?
Because I won't be able to study even ABC if I'm lying down...
How do you divide post-op life into "bedridden" and "able to sit up"?
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To Mtall's question i'm going to add this,asking you if you are able to sleep on your stomach
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Sitting up on your bed is easy. I was sitting up the entire day. That has to do with your back more than your legs. Even though your legs can bend at 90 degrees a few days post-op, doesn't mean you'll be able to keep them that way for a long time. So no, sitting on a couch wouldn't have been too comfortable for me, but your experience may be different. I had an awesome square shaped cushion that made sitting up on the bed a breeze.
tl;dr You can sit up on a bed because your legs are straight but not on a couch (for long) because your knees are bent
You can lie on your stomach for an hour or 2. The turning will be uncomfortable especially before your stitches are removed. Whenever I lied on my stomach, I eventually turned over onto my back.
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About me:
I'm an 18 year old male. I'm looking to go from 5'2 to 5'5 in India which is kinda equivalent to going 5'4/5'5 to 5'7/5'8 in the US, a pretty great gain if I can manage all 7.5cms. I'm also going to get to be home throughout the procedure with my family since I'm from Mumbai, around half an hour away from where I'll be operated.
Surgery/doctor:
Doing Precice 2 nails in my femurs with Dr. Mangal Parihar. My surgery's on 20th September, about 12 days to go. I will be the Dr's first Precice 2 patient(slightly unnerving); however he says it won't matter. The total cost for those wondering is around $42,000 or 28 Lakhs(nails + surgery, not counting hotel stay or travel).
I've had 2 consultations with him thus far and will have another to get the exact surgery protocol.
He's not too big on pre-op PT but I've nonetheless been stretching and working out.
(Special thanks to Kilo for bringing the Dr's name to light with his experience and helping me out tons.)
These are the tests I've to do: http://imgur.com/a/tId5F
So far I'm really not scared, just excited. I guess the last week before their surgery is where people start sh*tting bricks. Fasting before my blood test and woke up at 3am out of hunger, couldn't sleep so decided to start this.
Feel free to ask me anything.
Penguin, can you plz advise on the total aproximate cost of internals with Parihar (including food, accomodation etc. I mean all starting from surgery to the day you can walk), also can you plz advise on the approx timeline of lengthening, consolidation, walking etc? I would be doing the surgery in next 1 year, possibly earlier and Parihar is a target doctor for me. thanks a lot
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I am almost 5 months post op, and Dr. Guichet has allowed me to do everything. I didn't specifically ask if I could go to the gym but I did last week. Did 4 sets of 15 reps of leg extension, and leg curl plus what I always do at the gym 30 min bike, 30 min elliptical and 30 min fast walking. What happened is that in the leg extension machine a bit of my femur was outside the seat and made me feel uncomfortable. I used the second lowest weight and after the last set it started hurting a little (muscular pain). So I stopped. I will wait 6 months post op for a more serious training!
Also when I do side kicks (opening legs) in my left leg I feel slight pain as if I'm feeling the top of the nail against my bone and soft tissues, has it ever happened to you?
Hei LLsouth america, great to know you are doing great. It seems Guichet patients walk/recover earlier then other doctors', can you comment on how , anything special? ALso, can you plz advise how much you spent on total ? thanks.
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Penguinn,
This might be the right time to ask you this, since you're at the end of your journey and now you can look back and thoughtfully answer.
I thought of asking you this via PM, but then I thought it would be good for everyone to know the answer:
In the beginning of your diary, you said that you had the funds to go to Dr. Paley, but you didn't want to let your dad spend that much. So you went to Dr. Parihar.
Looking back at your LL journey now, is there ANYTHING that would have gone better if you had gone to Dr. Paley instead? Is there anything that would have been done better, said better or anything that would have made your journey shorter, quicker or in any way superior?
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I did a light trot today. Not a jog, just that trot people do while trying to cover 5-6 steps really quickly. Nothing broke/tore/ripped/squeaked so that's nice, but I'm going to stop messing around until at least a couple more weeks pass.
Penguinn,
This might be the right time to ask you this, since you're at the end of your journey and now you can look back and thoughtfully answer.
I thought of asking you this via PM, but then I thought it would be good for everyone to know the answer:
In the beginning of your diary, you said that you had the funds to go to Dr. Paley, but you didn't want to let your dad spend that much. So you went to Dr. Parihar.
Looking back at your LL journey now, is there ANYTHING that would have gone better if you had gone to Dr. Paley instead? Is there anything that would have been done better, said better or anything that would have made your journey shorter, quicker or in any way superior?
I can't stay. The #1 problem I had was slow consolidation which seems like it'd have happened regardless of the doctor. Plus, at times I was lazy with the weight bearing.
Parihar takes it slow and careful. Would Paley have made me walk(aided) right away/sooner? Would that have sped up my recovery or broken my bone? I have absolutely no way of knowing that.
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Hei LLsouth america, great to know you are doing great. It seems Guichet patients walk/recover earlier then other doctors', can you comment on how , anything special? ALso, can you plz advise how much you spent on total ? thanks.
Ask me on my diary, this is Penguinn's.
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Plus, at times I was lazy with the weight bearing.
Yeah, so tell me something...why exactly were you lazy with the weight bearing? Is it physically taxing? Is it painful?
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Yeah, so tell me something...why exactly were you lazy with the weight bearing? Is it physically taxing? Is it painful?
LL puts you in a place where days/weeks just blend into each other and you feel like a corpse. You're not mobile and don't feel like yourself. Life is slow. Improvement is slow at first (but then speeds up in the later months of recovery) so the motivation is low too. It is physically taxing, yeah, but I could've done better. Plus at that point, college and stuff was far away so I thought I'd just let it happen. Then commitments came nearer and callus was slow, so I realized I had to make sh*t happen and worked harder.
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Update
So despite being able to walk relatively normally a few months ago, my left leg hadn't consolidated on all sides. About a month ago I went for a CT scan because Dr. P wanted to analyze my bones carefully from all angles. He's analyzed it thoroughly and believes no intervention (like bone marrow injections to stimulate the remaining callus) is necessary. Yay!
My gait is 100%. Only time my gait is 90%, that too only in the left leg, is the first 2 seconds after I get up after sitting for a long time. I can jog. I've only jogged in my house(I don't think I was supposed to), and it's not 100%, so giving it more time. I probably won't try full on sprinting for another few months just to be safe. I think my left leg may have filled up the gap on its own, because it's hard to believe I'm walking this well and able to trot/jog with some bone missing. I'll get an x-ray soon- haven't had one in a long time.
Reason I haven't gotten checked in a long time or I don't come here much is because I'm just busy with life and feel pretty normal. Function is pretty normal, like climbing stairs, wearing shoes standing up, picking up something I've dropped. I've even sumo wrestled a scrawny friend(with my not-back-to-full-strength legs as anchors) and won, there is no hope for him.
Problems I still have:
My ass is kinda deflated >:( I miss my old plump posterior. Even the ladies loved it lol. It's gonna take forever, isn't it?
My thigh muscles (quads, hammies) are still not 100% so I don't squat and stuff. But they're improving and at a very comfortable place.
I can't jog properly or run, but that can wait.
I'm not going to post any media but if anyone cares, I can make a timeline of my LL with problems and their solutions for potential patients to go through quickly. Or maybe I should wait till I can run before calling it a success story?
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Hey penguinn what do you think after more than 1 year of surgery was it worth it? Does it make you feel happier than before? And how does it feel to be 3 inches taller does't it feel weird?
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200% worth it.
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I just want to update and say that I ran from one wall of my house to another (very small distance and not a full sprint, but definitely more than a jog) and I felt fine. ;D Mum saw the run and said I looked like a normal person. I'm still going to wait a few months before jogging and sprinting because it's simply not worth the risk right now. Parihar hasn't given me permission to run so I feel kind of guilty too haha. I'll probably start gyming and treadmilling and build up my quads/hammies before running full steam.
I'll also probably get an x-ray soon, haven't taken one in 3 months. Thanks to people who've been rooting for me, it's meant a lot. Once I start jogging, which will probably be several months from now because I'm being careful, I'll write a summary of the diary. Also sorry for not being the most active mod, life is great but keeps me really busy, I'll try to do better.
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I just want to update and say that I ran from one wall of my house to another (very small distance and not a full sprint, but definitely more than a jog) and I felt fine. ;D Mum saw the run and said I looked like a normal person. I'm still going to wait a few months before jogging and sprinting because it's simply not worth the risk right now. Parihar hasn't given me permission to run so I feel kind of guilty too haha. I'll probably start gyming and treadmilling and build up my quads/hammies before running full steam.
I'll also probably get an x-ray soon, haven't taken one in 3 months. Thanks to people who've been rooting for me, it's meant a lot. Once I start jogging, which will probably be several months from now because I'm being careful, I'll write a summary of the diary. Also sorry for not being the most active mod, life is great but keeps me really busy, I'll try to do better.
Congratulations Penguinn! At the same time, please don't take any risks without letting the doctor on.
I just wanted to say your diary was one of the ones that convinced me to take the leap. I did my surgery almost exactly a year after you. All the best!
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Congratulations Penguinn! At the same time, please don't take any risks without letting the doctor on.
I just wanted to say your diary was one of the ones that convinced me to take the leap. I did my surgery almost exactly a year after you. All the best!
Thanks, and yes absolutely. Life is great right now and sh*t would fall apart if I broke a bone. I probably won't run for 2-3 months even after Parihar says I can.
That's super cool. I hope your journey's going well!
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I have a serious question. I have been checking out Dr. Parihar's website, but there were no mentioning of precice 2 nail surgery. All I could see was ilizarov technique, If he is that good at precice 2 why it has not been shown website section. :) ;)
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I have a serious question. I have been checking out Dr. Parihar's website, but there were no mentioning of precice 2 nail surgery. All I could see was ilizarov technique, If he is that good at precice 2 why it has not been shown website section. :) ;)
Well Precice would be prohibitively expensive for most Indian locals, and he can do corrections with external devices and other nails for deformity correction. He's not looking to expand his CLL patients so it's probably not in his list of priorities to update the site with Precice 2 info.
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I have a serious question. I have been checking out Dr. Parihar's website, but there were no mentioning of precice 2 nail surgery. All I could see was ilizarov technique, If he is that good at precice 2 why it has not been shown website section. :) ;)
Almost no Indians can afford Precice 2, and Parihar specializes in reconstruction and does not want to promote cosmetic LL. Although last time I went for X-rays, 2 weeks or so ago, the X-ray guy told me a couple people have done Precice since me, and most or all (I don't recall) were Indians. I'm not sure if he was talking about just unilateral(lengthening the short leg for medical reasons) or bilateral cosmetic LL though.
Also my left leg is properly fused and I've jogged short distances, and I'll be regularly gymming in a few weeks once I get free time. Won't run or play sports for a few more months, maybe even until my rods are out. I'm just scared lol. I'd rather wait 6 more months to run than I need to than a minute sooner than I should. Anyone that's done LL knows not to take being a fully functioning human for granted haha
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I have a serious question. I have been checking out Dr. Parihar's website, but there were no mentioning of precice 2 nail surgery. All I could see was ilizarov technique, If he is that good at precice 2 why it has not been shown website section. :) ;)
You should check out his site specifically made for CLL patients (https://sites.google.com/site/cllrpatients/faqs/cosmeticlengthening), which lists PRECICE.
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Thanks, man, this information helps. :D :D
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I was thinking about if there are any complications when we get old I mean at the age of 50-60 or more or maybe at the age of 45. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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I was thinking about if there are any complications when we get old I mean at the age of 50-60 or more or maybe at the age of 45. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
All medical evidence and opinion I've read so far indicates that getting CLL increases your chances of getting knee/hip arthritis, possibly at earlier ages (than it would happen without CLL).
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Hi Penguiin! I've seen a lot of patients walking unaided very soon. For example, they lengthened 6 cm in 55 days aprox, but they start walking a little without crutches one week before that. The people who had the surgery before me, are now walking. The case with the best recovery now only uses crutches to go upstairs, but can walk unaided (though he admits he walks like a penguin) less than 3 months post op
LLSouthAmerica, I sent you a PM, plz check and advise, thanks a lot.
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The only side effect of LL left for me is weak thigh muscles in my left leg (callus has become bone in both legs and the right is almost pre-LL) :) I probably shouldn't complain because it isn't a real complication but I can't play football or most sports till the muscles strengthen some more. However I can work out, come off completely normal to third person and can sprint at approx pre-LL speed (I tried) if a madman chases me with a knife or something. The doctor says it'll happen on its own- so currently if I run, my left knee will feel pressurised because the weak thigh muscles aren't helping as much as they should be. I'll start working out soon, do leg raises and sh*t and work on those muscles. Not working out and eating only junk food for the past few months probably didn't help.
Once my left leg becomes like my right, I'll feel as good as pre-LL. Don't know whether it'll take 2 or 6 or 8 months, but I was in this for the long game so I don't really mind. Playing football isn't a dire necessity and can wait a few months. On my right leg, I honestly can't tell it had ever been operated on.
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Thanks for the update Penguinn, that's great that you're almost back to feeling completely pre-LL again! Many are in worse condition even without CLL after all, either through lack of exercise or poor diet (for much longer than just a few months). Best of luck with the workouts.
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Thanks! It'll be a long time before I'm bang on pre-LL though, but I'm pretty sure I'll get there.
One funny (and totally mental, not physical) side effect of LL is that if you can't do something/bend your leg in a certain awkward way, or some muscle aches, you'll never know if it's just a human thing or an LL thing ;D There have been times when I wondered if my legs were aching only to introspect and realize my arms and back felt the same way and it was just me being tired lol
Also to those that PM me asking for advice or help, I'm sorry, I've just been too busy to reply
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Can you tell a rough estimate within how much time one can resume office routine after LL?
Be it going to office with facility similar to Mera Enabled. Also I would love to hear about current condition. Are you fully recovered?
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- Why did you write "It'll be a long time before I'm bang on pre-LL though, but I'm pretty sure I'll get there." What exactly are you feeling different compared to pre-LL stage?
-did you feel anything positive apart from psychological benefits, such as better social status, acceptance ,career or in other spheres in general.
-Have you ever had any pain/implications/trouble/health issues due to the surgery in these 2 years?
-(for moderate lengthening 6-7.5 cms) if we do it only on one segment, say femur/tibia would it cause any health issue.
-(as asked above) rough estimate for both external tibia/internal femur, within how much time one can resume office routine after LL? Can we go even while lengthening or consolidation phase is done?
Again Thanks!
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Can you tell a rough estimate within how much time one can resume office routine after LL?
Be it going to office with facility similar to Mera Enabled. Also I would love to hear about current condition. Are you fully recovered?
Explain what you mean by 'office routine'. If you're going to be loaded into an Enabled Cab like cargo and wheeled to the office on a wheelchair, you could do it a few days post-op.. if you mean using crutches and being a little independent, that could take ~6 months depending on your recovery.
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- Why did you write "It'll be a long time before I'm bang on pre-LL though, but I'm pretty sure I'll get there." What exactly are you feeling different compared to pre-LL stage?
-did you feel anything positive apart from psychological benefits, such as better social status, acceptance ,career or in other spheres in general.
-Have you ever had any pain/implications/trouble/health issues due to the surgery in these 2 years?
-(for moderate lengthening 6-7.5 cms) if we do it only on one segment, say femur/tibia would it cause any health issue.
-(as asked above) rough estimate for both external tibia/internal femur, within how much time one can resume office routine after LL? Can we go even while lengthening or consolidation phase is done?
Again Thanks!
-I won't be bang-on pre-LL or 100% pre-LL because although I feel normal, I don't feel 100%. In my book, 100% equals not feeling like anything was ever done to your legs. Even though I appear and feel normal, it's a new kind of normal. My legs feel 95% as free as pre-LL, not 100. I have the nails still inside me though so perhaps that's what it takes for that last bit of recovery.
-Just standing up taller feels better and is more convenient but we do this for psychological benefits. I'm happier. What else is there?
-You can't do 7.5cms on tibia... and even on the femurs, I wouldn't call it moderate. 7.5 is the roof of the safe limit for femurs.
-You guys need to explain what you mean by office routine. That's too vague. What are you picturing; going alone on crutches or someone wheeling you around like you're 90?
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-I won't be bang-on pre-LL or 100% pre-LL because although I feel normal, I don't feel 100%. In my book, 100% equals not feeling like anything was ever done to your legs. Even though I appear and feel normal, it's a new kind of normal. My legs feel 95% as free as pre-LL, not 100. I have the nails still inside me though so perhaps that's what it takes for that last bit of recovery.
-Just standing up taller feels better and is more convenient but we do this for psychological benefits. I'm happier. What else is there?
-You can't do 7.5cms on tibia... and even on the femurs, I wouldn't call it moderate. 7.5 is the roof of the safe limit for femurs.
-You guys need to explain what you mean by office routine. That's too vague. What are you picturing; going alone on crutches or someone wheeling you around like you're 90?
Thanks for the detailed replies.
What about 6 6.5 or 7 for femurs/tibia?
Yes I want to know if minimal physical activity is required at the office with someone to pick up and drop, would it be possible to go and work after few months (exactly how much?)
Can you please tell what independence of leg mean? Is it related to movement/rotation or pain or restriction on activities or duration/stamina of physical activity or anything else.
Are you improving on a day to day basis? Do you believe you will gain 100% at some point say 1-2 years in future after the rod removals or even before that?
After removal of rods would you get any refund from precice?
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Thanks for the detailed replies.
What about 6 6.5 or 7 for femurs/tibia?
Yes I want to know if minimal physical activity is required at the office with someone to pick up and drop, would it be possible to go and work after few months (exactly how much?)
Can you please tell what independence of leg mean? Is it related to movement/rotation or pain or restriction on activities or duration/stamina of physical activity or anything else.
Are you improving on a day to day basis? Do you believe you will gain 100% at some point say 1-2 years in future after the rod removals or even before that?
After removal of rods would you get any refund from precice?
I think 6.5 is moderate for femurs. 7 to 7.5 is not moderate but not dangerous either. I did 7.5 and I don't regret it at all.
Minimal physical activity at the office = getting up, walking around etc? Or sitting for long periods of time? I don't know, I wouldn't have gone to the office before I was at least 6 months post op if I was an office going age at the time. 7 or 8 months on crutches, for me. I walked a bit late though. People like programdude walked 5 months post op with crutches and 6 months unaided. Everyone's experience is different. I'd say 6 months approx if you insist on a number.
Yeah, I think I'll be 100% eventually after rod removal but it's pure speculation at this point. edit: I should add though, anyone who's an athlete doing LL and expecting to be the same athlete again is completely delusional. I say "100%" for me, because I'm not a serious athlete and casually playing football with friends and gymming is the max I push my body, ever.
No lmao, no refund. The rods are already used and have done their job. Precice has no use for them now.
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Hi penguinn, what do u think about the length of your femur? I mean now you probably have the same femur length of the person who is naturally around 185 cm. Does it look odd when you are sitting? For example,I have a friend who is naturally 183 cm. And when I see his femurs length, I can't imagine that I will not be looking odd with the same length after femur lengthening surgery. ( by the way, my natural height is around 162,5 cm) Thanks in advance
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casually playing football with friends and gymming is the max I push my body, ever.
how far can you run? what leg exercises do you do in the gym and what weights?
do you play amateur football with you friends? do you play 90 minutes match on a large sized field with eleven players?
the thing with football is it can be risky.
could you post a proportions pic? you can blur / distort it out to your comfort.
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I think 6.5 is moderate for femurs. 7 to 7.5 is not moderate but not dangerous either. I did 7.5 and I don't regret it at all.
Minimal physical activity at the office = getting up, walking around etc? Or sitting for long periods of time? I don't know, I wouldn't have gone to the office before I was at least 6 months post op if I was an office going age at the time. 7 or 8 months on crutches, for me. I walked a bit late though. People like programdude walked 5 months post op with crutches and 6 months unaided. Everyone's experience is different. I'd say 6 months approx if you insist on a number.
Yeah, I think I'll be 100% eventually after rod removal but it's pure speculation at this point. edit: I should add though, anyone who's an athlete doing LL and expecting to be the same athlete again is completely delusional. I say "100%" for me, because I'm not a serious athlete and casually playing football with friends and gymming is the max I push my body, ever.
No lmao, no refund. The rods are already used and have done their job. Precice has no use for them now.
Penguin, I'll show you that I will be an even better martial artist post-LL.
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Penguin, I'll show you that I will be an even better martial artist post-LL.
No offense, but you're in for a rude awakening once you do LL if you think that.
If martial arts is that important to you, don't do LL or at least do a very very moderate amount like 5cms.
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No offense, but you're in for a rude awakening once you do LL if you think that.
If martial arts is that important to you, don't do LL or at least do a very very moderate amount like 5cms.
I want to know why, just as above ..what exactly are you facing the difficulty? Is it related to movement or rotation or pain or restriction on activities or duration/stamina of physical activity or anything else?
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It's like a light mix of tightness and tiredness that comes sooner than it would pre-LL if you jog or something. It doesn't feel scary or like something will tear, but yeah, your athletic ability is lower. Very sudden movements (like your legs changing direction quickly while playing tennis) might feel uncomfortable too.
However the good thing is that the remaining 5% of recovery (after which I'll probably resume playing football with friends) is happening, slowly. It's my belief that true, complete recovery from LL, where your soft tissues completely adapt to the stretch and you're as good as you are pre-LL, takes between 2-4 years. Just my opinion. We shall see. I still have nail removal left so when that happens in a year or whatever and I recover from that, I'll give an update on whether I'm pre-LL.
I should add though that if my current state was as good as it gets recovery-wise, I still don't regret LL at all. I feel normal almost all the time and if someone was chasing me with a knife, I could sprint at pre-LL speed for at least 200 metres.
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No offense, but you're in for a rude awakening once you do LL if you think that.
If martial arts is that important to you, don't do LL or at least do a very very moderate amount like 5cms.
Yeah I will first do 5cm on tibias for sure. Then maybe 6 on femur.
Martial Arts is very important to me, but so is HEIGHT.
It's like a light mix of tightness and tiredness that comes sooner than it would pre-LL if you jog or something. It doesn't feel scary or like something will tear, but yeah, your athletic ability is lower. Very sudden movements (like your legs changing direction quickly while playing tennis) might feel uncomfortable too.
However the good thing is that the remaining 5% of recovery (after which I'll probably resume playing football with friends) is happening, slowly. It's my belief that true, complete recovery from LL, where your soft tissues completely adapt to the stretch and you're as good as you are pre-LL, takes between 2-4 years. Just my opinion. We shall see. I still have nail removal left so when that happens in a year or whatever and I recover from that, I'll give an update on whether I'm pre-LL.
I should add though that if my current state was as good as it gets recovery-wise, I still don't regret LL at all. I feel normal almost all the time and if someone was chasing me with a knife, I could sprint at pre-LL speed for at least 200 metres.
That sounds contradictory. You first said that anyone who thinks that they'd be as athletic as pre-LL is delusional, but then said you could run as fast as before LL even when you haven't even recovered 100% and that complete recovery is possible in 2-4 years.
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I can run at max speed, but not for as long as I could pre op. I probably cannot run as fast in a bumpy area or obstacle course. And running does not equal full recovery. I know, weird. I used to think pre-LL that running would come last.
I speculate that I'll be fully recovered between 2 to 4 years post op. Pure speculation. No surity. And also I said for me, full recovery equals casual football without any odd feelings in my legs. For you, a full recovery means martial arts... that is way more intense and demanding.
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Let me try to explain the state I'm in right now
You know the feeling you get during or after a fever? Slight muscle weakness, but nothing much, you could run if need be. Well that's my quads after a jog or walking a lot. Like a minor fever affected them but nothing serious...... it's great considering recovery is still on but again.... that isn't 100%. When I sit or sleep, I am 100% and cannot tell LL was ever done but thats been like that for over half a year. Barely had pain on the bed even during lengthening somehow.
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Any new updates?
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Nope. I'm 95% recovered so any updates will be 6 monthly or so. No point in asking every week or month.
TBH I think the last 5% of recovery, to feel TOTALLY normal will not happen before nail removal. But even if this is as good as it gets, I'm happy and have no regrets.
Proportions matter though so I will advise people to avoid 7.5cms on femurs like I did. Nobody finds me odd looking (not even nked, asked my girl and she couldn't tell) but most people here are perfectionists like me and it will bother you. And it makes things like sit-ups or squats difficult. Ideal LL is probably 6cms femurs + 4cms tibias, if you have the time, proportions, money and patience for that.
Don't think I will have anything interesting to post until nail removal. Life is great and I'm focused on other things. Won't think about LL again until removal. I probably won't play football until then either, that kinda sucks.
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Nope. I'm 95% recovered so any updates will be 6 monthly or so. No point in asking every week or month.
TBH I think the last 5% of recovery, to feel TOTALLY normal will not happen before nail removal. But even if this is as good as it gets, I'm happy and have no regrets.
Proportions matter though so I will advise people to avoid 7.5cms on femurs like I did. Nobody finds me odd looking (not even nked, asked my girl and she couldn't tell) but most people here are perfectionists like me and it will bother you. And it makes things like sit-ups or squats difficult. Ideal LL is probably 6cms femurs + 4cms tibias, if you have the time, proportions, money and patience for that.
Don't think I will have anything interesting to post until nail removal. Life is great and I'm focused on other things. Won't think about LL again until removal. I probably won't play football until then either, that kinda sucks.
What about 6cm femur and 5cm tibia? This would give me the perfect ratio of 0.8. Or 5cm femur and 5cm tibia?
Thing is I am not sure if I am gonna do the 2nd surgery for femur, so I think it's best to secure the maximum safe increased height on tibia which is 5cm.
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What about 6cm femur and 5cm tibia? This would give me the perfect ratio of 0.8. Or 5cm femur and 5cm tibia?
Thing is I am not sure if I am gonna do the 2nd surgery for femur, so I think it's best to secure the maximum safe increased height on tibia which is 5cm.
I'm honestly not sure about the exact amount, I was just getting a point across
I think 5cm on either segment should be a great, safe goal, relatively speaking.
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I'm honestly not sure about the exact amount, I was just getting a point across
I think 5cm on either segment should be a great, safe goal, relatively speaking.
But do you think that athleticism will get much worse if you lengthen 2 segments (even by a reasonable amount as you suggest) compared to 1 segment only?
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Penguin did you get it band release?
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But do you think that athleticism will get much worse if you lengthen 2 segments (even by a reasonable amount as you suggest) compared to 1 segment only?
I only have experience lengthening one segment so my guess is as good as yours.
Is lengthening 7.5 in one segment worse than 6+4 in both? I don't know, but if I had lengthened only 6, I would probably be 100% right now, not even realise I'd done LL... and definitely 100% after nail removal (which I'm hoping I will be anyway). If I had to put my money on something, I would wager 6+4 is better. I wouldn't recommend doing 3" anyway unless you're really f*cking short.
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I only have experience lengthening one segment so my guess is as good as yours.
Is lengthening 7.5 in one segment worse than 6+4 in both? I don't know, but if I had lengthened only 6, I would probably be 100% right now, not even realise I'd done LL... and definitely 100% after nail removal (which I'm hoping I will be anyway). If I had to put my money on something, I would wager 6+4 is better. I wouldn't recommend doing 3" anyway unless you're really f*cking short.
What's your guess between 5 in tibia and 6+4 in both?
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What's your guess between 5 in tibia and 6+4 in both?
For athleticism retainment? Definitely 5cms in tibia over 6cm+4cm.
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Dr Birkholtz said in his thread a while back that he's of the opinion doing both segments makes your athleticism worse than doing just one segment, since it has more to do with the stretching of the soft tissues and not the tibia/femur ratio.
I wouldnt imagine competitive sport being within the realm of possibility after any CLL, at least if you wanna be really good at it.
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Dr Birkholtz said in his thread a while back that he's of the opinion doing both segments makes your athleticism worse than doing just one segment, since it has more to do with the stretching of the soft tissues and not the tibia/femur ratio.
True, but what I imagine is something like this: every centimetre after the safe limit is as bad as 2cms within the safe limit, recovery wise
So assuming the tibia safe limit is 5cms, 7cms in tibias is as bad as 5cms tibias + 4 cms femurs
I pulled these numbers out my @ss but you see what I mean. Doing 8cms in femurs might not be better than doing 6 in femurs and 4 in tibias.
Of course doing 7cms femurs is better recovery wise than doing 7cms femurs + 4 cms tibias.
I wouldnt imagine competitive sport being within the realm of possibility after any CLL, at least if you wanna be really good at it.
Agreed. Anyone that wants to compete on a serious level after LL needs to prioritize and pick one.
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Dr Birkholtz said in his thread a while back that he's of the opinion doing both segments makes your athleticism worse than doing just one segment, since it has more to do with the stretching of the soft tissues and not the tibia/femur ratio.
I wouldnt imagine competitive sport being within the realm of possibility after any CLL, at least if you wanna be really good at it.
But the question is how much worse? Or is it negligible?
Competitive sport not being a possibility is quite anecdotal and it comes from people like Body Builder, Sweden who overlengthened. Even you overlengthened a little with 6cm.
But even if it's true, fights usually end in a few seconds on the street.
Agreed. Anyone that wants to compete on a serious level after LL needs to prioritize and pick one.
But it's not really an option to me. They are both obligatory. The idea is I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of my legs' athletic function if it means taking me from 'short' to 'normal'.
By the way, I came across an older post that's quite interesting: http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=481.msg8548#msg8548
*Patients at 6 months post op, 1 year post op, and 2 years post op were tested with these tests, and the patients on average by the 2 year mark were within 3% of their pre-operative strength and ability.
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3% is a lot.
Anyway, no point in discussing this. You'll find out when you do LL for yourself. Just remember, if competing professionally is your life and more important than height- don't do LL
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You should check out his site specifically made for CLL patients (https://sites.google.com/site/cllrpatients/faqs/cosmeticlengthening), which lists PRECICE.
Thanks! this is really helpful
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Is it necessary to do IT band release/ ATL surgery post femur/limb lengthening? What is the approximate maximum length which one can go without IT band/ATL?
Thanks!
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Is it necessary to do IT band release/ ATL surgery post femur/limb lengthening? What is the approximate maximum length which one can go without IT band/ATL?
Thanks!
I'm not sure of the amount
I didn't even know whether Parihar was doing it on me or not, but I asked him post-op and he said he did.
Don't know how my experience would have changed if he hadn't
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he didn't tell you he is going to do that?
or you didn't pay attention to all his explanations?
either way it sound a little weck...
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I think it's pretty much required to do an IT band release when using Precice in order to help it distract. I think Dr Birkholtz said something along those lines too, though I'd have to search for it.
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I think it's pretty much required to do an IT band release when using Precice in order to help it distract. I think Dr Birkholtz said something along those lines too, though I'd have to search for it.
Release means lengthening or full removal of IT band? What are the long term complications? You have gone through ATL, did it affect your daily life? Please answer. Thanks.
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Release means lengthening or full removal of IT band? What are the long term complications? You have gone through ATL, did it affect your daily life? Please answer. Thanks.
IT band release is not removal (detrimental!), it's incisions to lengthen it. It will heal over time as if nothing was done to it.
Here's DoingItForMe's experience (http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=2883.msg44655#msg44655). There was a recent video with Dr. Paley and he still stands by his opinion.
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he didn't tell you he is going to do that?
or you didn't pay attention to all his explanations?
either way it sound a little weck...
"weck"?
I don't remember, it was 1.5 years ago and our initial meetings would be 2.5 to 2 years ago. Plus I didn't really care, I figured I wasn't the surgeon so worrying about what to release and not was not my headache. But I remember asking post op and he said yes he did.
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"weck"?
I don't remember, it was 1.5 years ago and our initial meetings would be 2.5 to 2 years ago. Plus I didn't really care, I figured I wasn't the surgeon so worrying about what to release and not was not my headache. But I remember asking post op and he said yes he did.
How is your recovery is it still 95%? How much are the symptoms such as Duck Ass, Wide legs and equinus etc due to the surgery? Do you anytime feel looseness/pain in your knees due to IT band release?
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There is no duckass, I don't know what wide legs is and no knee pain
I only get strain in the quads more than pre-LL when I run, should be better after nail removal. I don't think I can be 100% without taking them out tbh
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What’s up Penguinn! I don’t post here much but I remembered your diary from months ago back when I used to come on here regularly. Sooo happy to see you’ve gotten better. You and I were very similar. I’m a little older than you and taller than you, but I had the same problem you had - but in my right leg instead of my left.
I’ve been “95%” for quite a while too. I run regularly twice a week and it gets better every time, I’m still not able to sprint as fast as I could pre LL, but my speed was college level track fast so that might never happen again lol. My squat is only about 2/3 of what it used to be, but it’s been progressing regularly as well. Upper body exercises are the highest they’ve ever been though. But I’m with you, if this is the furthest I get recovery wise I would 100% not regret it, I’d do it all over again if I had to because the extra height is amazing.
Anyways, I was really commenting just to let you know i’m getting my rods removed sometime within the next month - I’ll let you know what differences I notice, since judging by our similarities you’ll probably notice too. Congrats on the recovery!
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Yep, I'll be looking forward to your experience :D
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Dear penguin
Congratulation your 7.5cm get and recover!
Your detailed diary do help me hugely.
How are you? Do you have the nail removed and walk feel with pain?
Thanks you. Best wish.
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I'm almost fully recovered and whatever minor feelings (remainders of LL) I feel stem from the screws of the nails. Unfortunately I won't have the time to remove these nails for 1 to 2 years because of my hectic schedule. It sucks, but meh. Apart from playing sports at full force (haven't tried), I do everything else totally normally. I don't think it's possible to recover more than 95 to 99% unless the nails come out.
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I lurk every now and then but I have nothing to report. I'll write about my removal in a year or two, whenever I do it.
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Hi Penguinn
I am happy for your success!
What size nail did you get? From your x-rays, the doctor seems to done less reaming and there is a lot of bone around the nails (unlike a couple of European doctors who put in large nails).
How weight bearing were you during lengthening? How did you manage to get to the toilet, climb a car, etc.?
When you walked using a walker, how much weight can you transfer on your hands?
thanks. Please keep posting your progress updates!
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I lurk every now and then but I have nothing to report. I'll write about my removal in a year or two, whenever I do it.
'lurk'? Is it in a positive sense or otherwise?
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Dear penguin. How do you get medical visa for 3months and how do you pay? Do you use you card with thepos machine?
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How is the PT facility at Dr Parihar's hospital? Were you satisfied with it?
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IIRC he is indian.
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Hi Penguin, did you get your rods removed?
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Hey penguin just read your diary, was very exciting to read I was wondering how you are feeling now and if your able to walk properly, also need advice as I’m thinking of doing Surgery with Dr parihar maybe, please reply thank you
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He has probably left the forum for good. Hope he is doing well and has got his nails removed. I wonder if he reads emails sent to him through the forum.
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Hi Penguin, did you get your rods removed?
Interesting, Penguin was online about a month back, but did not post an update :( I hope everything is alright.
This was one of the best diaries I had read on this forum. I loved his positive attitude.
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Hey Penguinn!
1. Is Parihar cheaper than Giotikas now for internal stryde?
2. What are the worst thing about doing LL in India?
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Hi Penguinn I hope you are doing good now. If you ever come back to this site, how is your current situation with walking and running?
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Hey man how are you! Would definitely love to hear an update! How is life? Are you completely back to normal? What about your atheletic abilities? Would be grateful if you could answer!
I hope you are doing amazing!
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He fixed his neurosis, his happy and moved on, that's what we all want, lets wish him the best.