Topic: Internal Femurs with Dr Baumgart / Fitbone (Read 32256 times)

Aturro · « **on:** May 08, 2015, 09:48:29 PM »

Hi everyone,
I just signed up for this forum as I am going to have my LL in about 6 weeks in Munich with Dr Baumgart. I planned to post my experiences here if that is of interest for the community. And of course I am looking for tips from people who have already gone through the process themselves...

I start with right femur with a target of 5-6 CM, left leg will probably only follow after healing process is completed.
My starting height is about 175CM, target 180CM. LL with Fitbone.

I have been thinking of having LL done for almost 7 years now and its now or never for me at the moment. Not an easy decision and I am pretty nervous, not so much about the surgery itself as for the time thereafter. I haven't told anybody, especially not my parents so that will be quite a discussion.

I´m keen to hear about your experiences, especially what to do for preparation besides stretching obviously.
Tough weeks coming up...will keep you updated.

All the best to all of you!
M.M.

morethan167 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2015, 09:57:57 PM »

I wish you all the best Aturro! Please keep us updated. Your initial height is pretty nice IMO so 5-6 gain only should be an easy task

btw, I don't see anyone doing bilateral Fitbone (one stage). I'm considering Fitbone also but I simply cannot do a two stage procedure

Alittletooshort · « **Reply #2 on:** May 09, 2015, 08:53:36 PM »

How much will you pay for the surgery? I've heard that he is the most expensive Dr. off all who offer CLL.

Aturro · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2015, 09:06:46 PM »

It will definitely be quite expensive. Costs for surgery, hospital, consultations, etc. will be approx EUR 90k plus any unexpected costs.
On top I expect around 3-4k for physio and I need to pay for apartment in Munich which is insanely expensive too.

So all in I guess around 110k...

Alittletooshort · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2015, 09:22:37 PM »

Why didn't you go with someone like Guichet or Paley then?

KrP1 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2015, 09:53:22 PM »

Yeah. Why did you choose baungart over other doctors?

Aturro · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2015, 11:24:00 PM »

couple of reasons: I met with Dr. Betz couple of years ago. He made a good impression and its nice to have a full weight bearing device from day 1. however the clicking and the potential pain made me shy away.
I am by far not an expert on surgical techniques etc. myself but from my feeling and what I heard from others the fitbone and the technique Prof Baumgart is using, is a very delicate one with hopefully the least physically demanding postsurgical effects. (Fitbone is not inserted via hip area etc.) As I am aiming from 5-6CM I don't really need the Albizia which can go a lot further I guess...If I find out more from my pre surgery meeting I will let you know.

Apart from that I prefer staying in Munich which is not that far from my home town and trying to have a "normal" life, maybe working a little bit and be physically but also socially active as much as I can.
12 month is a long time, it would be hard to be abroad or on my own for the whole time.

Prof Baumgart btw made a very good impression on me at the first meeting. Doesn't mean too much but the office and the whole setup seems very professional and state of the art.

If I couldn't afford it I would have probably gone with Dr Betz or just don't do it. I don't know anything about the other doctors as I ruled out that possibility already couple of years ago....so thats just a personal thing. (On femur however I would never have gone for an external device, as I said, having the least painful solution and a somehow normal life during consolidation is key to me)

Its a bit disappointing that I need to do it in two steps but I agree with Baumgart, being able to walk and live on your own is probably much easier than sitting in a wheelchair for 5 months.

lets see how it works out...

ps. a diagnostic study has been done on the fit bone results couple of years ago. I think the link is also somewhere here in the forum. Cant remember the details but the general feedback sounded very promising to me...

Taller · « **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2015, 04:09:17 AM »

Was it difficult to convince Dr. Baumgart to perform CLL on you at your relatively tall starting height of 175CM? I am 178CM, and your answer is of great personal interest to me. I would love to be 184-188CM, spending on how much my proportions and soft tissues can handle.

Aturro · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2015, 11:40:33 AM »

No it was not, it wasnt really a topic at all. don't think he would do any starting height though, 178 seems quite tall. he is a very reasonable guy, so if you make a good and mentally stable appearance he would probably still do it but I would assume not for more than 5-8CM. I personally would never do 10CM with a IMO of 175+ given increased risks, very long consolidation and odd proportions. So you might aim for 183-84 which would still be very tall (90% percentile).

Uppland · « **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2015, 02:09:41 PM »

I'm in the same situation as Taller, I think an increase of 6 or 7CM is the most I would do since proportions and function are very important to me. I would rather be 185CM and proportionate than 188CM and strange looking, would you agree Taller?

Also is 183-184CM really in the 90th percentile in Germany? I find that a bit hard to believe.

Alittletooshort · « **Reply #10 on:** May 10, 2015, 02:47:29 PM »

183-184 can't be the 90th percentile, germans are known to be quit tall.
186-187 is the 90th (for 20yo males) percentile in america, so it's probably even higher in germany.

Taller · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2015, 03:02:09 PM »

Quote from: Uppland on May 10, 2015, 02:09:41 PM

think an increase of 6 or 7CM is the most I would do since proportions and function are very important to me. I would rather be 185CM and proportionate than 188CM and strange looking, would you agree Taller?

I would agree with this. I'd be perfectly happy with myself at 185CM, but if I find that I can squeeze out one two or even three more CM's upon reaching 185, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to that.

When I wear shoes that make me 185, I look completely normal. I have arms only 2CM shorter than those of my 188CM father and my sitting height is only 2CM less as well. When we stand next to each other, our torsos appear to be the same length. So I'll attribute his taller sitting height to his fatter ass lol. Also, I know a 195CM guy who only has a 94-95CM sitting height. He has a big head, but looks very proportionate.

The point is I think that we'll be fine at 185CM. I posted pictures of some people with negative ape indexes in another thread. I think that they look very normal and that almost nobody pays attention to arm length.

Uppland · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2015, 08:41:31 PM »

Quote from: Taller on May 10, 2015, 03:02:09 PM

I would agree with this. I'd be perfectly happy with myself at 185CM, but if I find that I can squeeze out one two or even three more CM's upon reaching 185, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to that.

When I wear shoes that make me 185, I look completely normal. I have arms only 2CM shorter than those of my 188CM father and my sitting height is only 2CM less as well. When we stand next to each other, our torsos appear to be the same length. So I'll attribute his taller sitting height to his fatter ass lol. Also, I know a 195CM guy who only has a 94-95CM sitting height. He has a big head, but looks very proportionate.

The point is I think that we'll be fine at 185CM. I posted pictures of some people with negative ape indexes in another thread. I think that they look very normal and that almost nobody pays attention to arm length.

Of course, what one person might consider fine, another might consider unacceptable. Myself, I am pretty strict on what kind of proportional deviation I will tolerate. 185/6CM is probably achievable though, although I will certainly be long-legged at that point.

Aturro · « **Reply #13 on:** May 13, 2015, 03:43:35 PM »

Just a quick update: had my last pre surgery consultation with Prof Baumgart. Nothing too spectacular, basically the general warning of what can go wrong with the surgery and afterwards. Cant ignore the fact that there are risks but obviously I already made up my mind anyways.

Got my tailor made splint done which I will need to wear during the night so I don't start bending my leg which is important to avoid muscle contraction and reduced length.

Baumgart told me that it will take probably 6 months for the first leg before I can have my second surgery done. Its really a long timeframe but I really hope I can work and do something, not just wait for the 12 months to pass by.
I will not see Mr Baumgart anymore before the surgery.

Booked my physio therapies starting in July, two times per week is the minimum but I will do 5 per week. At least I have something to do...

So thats it for the moment, next update will probably be after the surgery in a couple of weeks. Quite nervous already...

ps. yes, it was my mistake with the height percentiles. 183,184 is probably rather a 75-80% percentile.

tallerbetter · « **Reply #14 on:** May 16, 2015, 07:59:21 PM »

You could have done fitbone cheaper with Dr Mongeal but Baumgart is better Good luck

Aturro · « **Reply #15 on:** June 22, 2015, 05:57:31 PM »

so I finally made it to the hospital. Surgery will be tomorrow morning.
so far so good, only setback was that my single bedroom was not available. I tried but didn't work so I have another Baumgart patient with me starting tomorrow.

Had a visit by Baumgarts assistant in the afternoon, everybody is very nice and I try to be as calm as possible.
We discussed all the details and I was able to ask all my questions, probably some stupid ones as well.
Given the fact that I want to gain around 5-6CM and the standard lengthening of around .6 to .8 per day, it will be a very long journey.
Motivation is key I guess so trying to start and stay as positive as possible.

I will be in the hospital until Saturday or Sunday most likely. Will update you with news if something happens. Lengthening itself will only start in 5 days.

Nobody knows what I am doing here in Munich which is quite annoying as I had to lie to basically everyone for the last couple of weeks.
Wish it would be different but couldn't do it.

I decided to make a video diary when I am at home and will write updates here in the forum too.

need to take my sedative tablets now;)

good night

Dr Monegal · « **Reply #16 on:** June 22, 2015, 09:08:55 PM »

Good luck Aturro.
You are in best hands.
Everything with Prof Baumgart will be Just perfect.

Aturro · « **Reply #17 on:** June 24, 2015, 07:56:25 PM »

Hey Guys, I am very exhausted so tough for me to Write.
But wanted to let you know that everything went well. Will Post a more detailed version tomorrow.
Thanks for your kind wishes!

And all the best to everybody around here!

KiloKAHN · « **Reply #18 on:** June 24, 2015, 09:00:17 PM »

Good to know your surgery went without complication, Aturro. It will be very interesting to read an account from a Dr Baumgart patient. Fingers crossed that your lengthening goes very smoothly for the duration.

axelf · « **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2015, 03:32:00 PM »

Hey Aturro,

I hope you're doing fine! Maybe a two stage procedure isn't too bad at all!

Please keep us updated when you feel ready for it.

Aturro · « **Reply #20 on:** June 30, 2015, 07:59:04 PM »

Hi guys, it took me quite a while but I was simply too exhausted the last couple of days.

let me give you a quick update on what happened:
Surgery was on Tuesday: everything went well according to the doc. couple of additional nails needed but else just fine.
Felt really good waking up afterwards knowing that there is no way back and that I finally did it! my leg was really swollen but that was expected....Didn't have too much pain the first day but obviously due to the intense medication

The nights were kind of horrible, but I was glad that the medication always helped. still not more than 2-3 hours sleep in total at night and I was waking up every thirty minutes or so...
It felt good to know that everything was ok but the level of pain plus exhaustion were still kind of hard to bear. I looked at my leg thinking about when its going to explode...

Wednesday was the first day I be carried to the bathroom in a wheelchair, after Thursday I was able to do that on my own with crutches. felt like an 8 hour hiking tour every time.
I think the problem was that I had no appetite at all and the food was not really good too. So I ate very little every day which obviously didn't help...
Apart from that I would recommend that you are physically fit before doing the surgery. I am not fit because I had done almost not sports for months because of my problems with my ankles...not good...

Medication was reduced every day until Sunday...that was ok during the day, but the nights were really bad. Needed some extra meds to sleep at least couple of hours...best time was between 6am and 1pm, almost no pain and motivation very high...decreased over the day though

Pain in general was lower a little bit every day and was quite easily berable after Friday or so.
Tried to move or bend my knee but could hardly do an inch. I think its different for everybody. Some told me they could significantly bend their knee after a week and fully after two...I am far away from that and can hardly bend it all at the moment.

Back at home since Monday, nights are getting better slowly. Taking 3-4 pain killers a day. Couldn't do it without at the moment...
Its 38degrees outside so exhausting for everybody especially for me walking on crutches.
Watching Netflix all day long and getting kind of bored. Unfortunately I am too tired to do something reasonable but that might improve I hope.

Very good news for me was the reaction from my parents and couple of close friends. They didn't know anything but reacted very cool even if they are concerned of course. My father is visiting me tomorrow and friends will drop by in a week or so...that is really a great relief because that was one of my big concerns before.
I stand completely to what I am doing now and I think that form of honesty just convinces everyone. It certainly makes my life easier...

Last word on Prof Baumgart, as discussed before he is a very very good surgeon but also very helpful. I had issues with my device and he wrote me back an email on Sunday right away. that gives you a good level of comfort. everything works fine now.
next monday I have my first consultation. Will do my first xray, very curious...
Lengthening is about .6 or .8 a day now, maybe it will already show on the xray next week...

will keep you updated.

last thought of the day: someone wrote in a similar forum couple of years ago that for him the whole process was 30 percent physical and 70 percent mentally. I am not done by far but I can already strongly agree to that statement....
so trying to stay positive even without sleep;)

good night

Aturro · « **Reply #21 on:** July 01, 2015, 08:54:12 PM »

Rough day today. Last Night was awful, lengthening during the day is ok but at Night the pain increases significantly.
couple of low moments already thinking, what have I done to myself...try to Hang in though

Biggest concerns are the swelling which seems to just stay the same.
And the uncertainty how the next couple of weeks will work out.
I definitely cant survive a day without medication. I so much hope they let me use it as long as needed...

the two stage procedure is probably easier but having to go through the same again is frightening
I have no idea about tomorrow but I keep dreaming that everything will ne easier when I wake up next time

glenn · « **Reply #22 on:** July 02, 2015, 01:38:29 AM »

Hang in there buddy!

Remember the pain will pass... but the height will be forever...

Stay strong, we are all cheering for you!

Aturro · « **Reply #23 on:** July 02, 2015, 08:41:10 PM »

Thanks guys! feels really good to have your moral support!

Took one of the stronger pills yesterday night and slept for almost 5 hours! felt surreal. that was the best feeling for a long time...try to reduce the daytime medication to almost zero now and only take one before going to sleep.
Having slept a couple of hours makes such a big difference, motivation wise and physically...

Had a lymphatic drainage today at home which was also nice. Apart from that its really boring. I think thats one of the advantages of Dr. Betz and others... you are constantly surrounded by people sharing the same experience. I don't really have anyone to talk about LL who can give you some advice etc.

still hanging in...

Glenn, your plans still unchanged for August?

glenn · « **Reply #24 on:** July 02, 2015, 08:45:40 PM »

Hi Aturro,

Great to hear you are feeling better! Hang in there, I'm sure things will get easier and easier as you progress.

Yes, my plans are the same. I will arrive Barcelona on August 18 and have my surgery on August 25. I am excited and anxious at the same time :-)

Aturro · « **Reply #25 on:** July 05, 2015, 08:46:09 PM »

Glenn, its good to hear that your are well on Track!

Nothing new from my side, swelling is getting better. Level of pain is ok but not improving. So I am still taking medication. Only thing worrying me is the stiffness and that I cant bend my knee, only very little. Muscles outside my knee are so thight...hope that is normal.

Will See the doctor tomorrow...

I dont know why but I cant concentrate for longer than a few minutes. Cant read just watch most stupid TV shows. In two months I will be brain dead...but hopefully taller...

JConnor · « **Reply #26 on:** July 09, 2015, 04:53:34 PM »

I'm glad everything is progressing as well as expected for you to so far. Thank you for posting this diary! As someone interested in a two-stage fitbone procedure, it'll be very helpful.

Quote from: Aturro on May 09, 2015, 11:24:00 PM

hopefully the least physically demanding postsurgical effects. (Fitbone is not inserted via hip area etc.)

Could you expand on this? Did Dr. Baumgart say why it's better to not go in through the hip? It seems like it would be riskier going in from the knee joint. And would you be willing to post a picture of just your knee to show what the surgical insertion point looks like? Thanks.

Aturro · « **Reply #27 on:** July 10, 2015, 09:57:25 PM »

Hi, quick update and answering some questions...

started my PT this week, but not doing much so far. just some easy exercises and some massage to release some muscle tensions which are quite annoying...

Trying to walk as normal as I can on crutches, i.e. bend my knee and improve flexibility. Far away from normal as of now. My knee is still swollen which makes walking etc quite difficult. But I think its getting better slowly.

On Wednesday I took the train to visit my parents for a couple of days. Train was ok for 4 hours being able to stretch out my leg but had to walk almost 300m once I got off. Took me 25minutes to get to the car, and together with the 50 minutes walking back and forth from my PT the same morning I was completely destroyed in the evening.
Had to sleep and rest for two days and only starting to feel better now. I think exercising is good but there are limits...

Lengthening is ok so far, starting to feel some pain after each lengthening but not too bad.
Still taking one pain killer before going to bed. Nothing during the day though

I thought I could start doing some minor work etc but that seems impossible. Getting up 3-4 times every night, walking around for couple of minutes to lower the pain and stiffness is somewhat ok, but I need to catch up that sleep during the next day. Working etc seems far from possible now, lets see...

Spoke to 2-3 friends and told them about my LL. I am gladly surprised that they all stand behind me on this. I guess they don't really like it but everybody tells me its ok if thats what I want to do. Good feeling to be able to talk about it and have their support. Guess times are much better for everyone doing surgeries etc as people and society are more tolerante towards these things.

I keep reading some other postings here and I am really impressed by people doing two legs at the same time. Obviously its good to save so much time but it must be really hard. One leg is tough already...

To JConnor:
I need to ask the Prof, I can only tell you that when I told him about other methods (like hip insertion) he replied that I get a very precise and state-of-the-art surgery technique for all the money I pay.
Personally I can think of two main factors: one is invasiveness, the other accuracy. In terms of accuracy he told me that lengthening is not just simply extending the bone as it has it specific shape. Therefore lengthening and the installation of the device must be very accurate using laser technique etc.
As I always felt being in very capable hands I didnt ask for all the details which I would probably not understand anyways. But if someone has a specific question I am happy to ask...

Posting a picture is fine with me, need to find out how to do it. Notice that my knee is still swollen so might look different soon.
In general the scars look ok, I am not worried about that at all
I have one or two more as I got 5 nails instead of 3 to make it more stable.

Going back to Munich on monday probably by car if my friend has time to drive me there. Xray in the afternoon which is the most crucial thing for me. I really want to here and see that everything is well on track...

LL really tests your mind, sometimes you feel good and highly motivated and then you are in pain, questioning yourself and feeling terrible.
but everybody knew its won't be an easy ride.
so far so good...

Cooper · « **Reply #28 on:** July 19, 2015, 04:53:13 PM »

Hi Aturro-
You are doing great. LL is difficult journey and really test your guts, patience and temperament. I was one of the highly motivated guy when I had femur done last year. I too some time (may be one or two occasions) was at low point. But I never regretted it. It was blessing to exit from unacceptable to acceptable height. My gosh we have a solution to height neurosis!!!

You will be 180. I will need two more LL to get there

. Not possible in this life time but no regret either. I am happy for you and you will enjoy your new height when all of this is behind.

Please keep us posted.

God Bless!

Aturro · « **Reply #29 on:** July 19, 2015, 10:37:24 PM »

Hi Cooper! Thanks for your supportive words. I read your diary, its great! And good to hear that you are in almost no pain.
I admire the fact that you are doing this for a second time. You must be really strong mentally. Well done.
Its a bit similar to my situation as I will have my second leg only done in 6 months or so...
I hate the First two weeks After surgery but its good that boredom is my main concern at the moment.

One issue I am having is that my foot always rotates to the outside when I walk. pt told me its normal and caused by the IT band. But I hope it doesnt get worse or influence my walking later on...try to bend my knee while standing and work against the Automatic rotation of my foot, feels strange.
Anybody has an idea on that?
I read about IT Band release. What does that mean and why could that be neccessary?
I am impressed some people are really flexible After 2-3 weeks. I can stretch out completely but bending is at 30 degree at best not improving...swelling can stay for months my PT told me..
I dont really bother but I am curious as it is very different to other experiences...

Having the next xray tomorrow, everything Should be Fine I hope...target 2.1 CM...

good Night to everyone and lets focus on our goal!

Aturro · « **Reply #30 on:** July 29, 2015, 10:12:19 PM »

its been a while and I thought about giving a quick update on the last ten days.

good news, Prof Baumgart is happy, everything looks ok. xray showing 2,8CM by last monday and it feels even more using 3CM lifts and standing even...
and although its only 3CM it feels like a different world. curious what it will be like at 6...

bad news is that pain started to increase last couple of days. I somehow expected that but its still a bit tough. Sleep is getting worse and without pain killer I couldn't go to bed at all.
Most of the pain is in my knee, but coming from the muscles above the knee that run past it...started using warm pads and that kind of helps a bit.

Pain overall is still ok but I really hope its not getting much worse the next 5 weeks.

Walking around and being 3CM taller makes up for quite a lot. always laughing at myself when I am walking on the street.

Baumgart told me that the X-rays are not showing the real bone gap and that you need to deduct around ten percent to get to the real gap. that also means that if I aim for 6CM for my right leg I need to go up to around 7CM to be sure get there. (i know thats not exactly ten %)
I am bit skeptical but don't really care at the moment. lets see in 4 weeks....

Limb Lengthening Forum

Author Topic: Internal Femurs with Dr Baumgart / Fitbone (Read 32256 times)