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Author Topic: Quadrilateral lengthening @ the Paley Institute - tibias 4cm + femurs 6cm  (Read 13872 times)

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OverrideYourGenetics

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7.5cm total
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2018, 02:51:40 AM »

Where would you rank your pain on a 1-10 scale also do you plan on doing more surgeries ie femurs and hopefully you get full feeling back pretty soon

Thanks for the well wishes and I don't mean to sound mean, but you may get more out of life with much less of an investment by improving your reading comprehension and English writing skills. Anyway, I'll try to make sense of your run-on sentence and give an update on my journey so far.

Friday, June 8, 2018 - 4 weeks since stopping lengthening the tibias, 2 weeks since stopping the right femur

Today concludes the lengthening phase of my process, for a total of 7.5cm (almost 3"). Here are the x-rays on the last day of lengthening:



For the last two weeks, I've only been lengthening the left femur at 0.5mm/day, in order to make up for the leg length discrepancy. As I noted in a previous post, this was due to a strategic mistake - not correcting this discrepancy at the beginning of the lengthening process. Please learn from my experience and convince your doctor that you want to correct any discrepancies at the beginning of the lengthening, when you're much more flexible, and one extra turn a day won't make much of a difference.

Surprisingly, when I asked Dr. Paley about the timeline to walking with crutches and consolidation, he cleared me for walking with crutches and sent me to PT to learn the 4-point crutch gait. He also upped my weight bearing from 100lbs (2x50 in the tibias) to 120lbs with the walker, and said I could stand straight unassisted without a time limit, as long as the heels, knees and hips were stacked. Was anyone else using PRECICE cleared to walk with crutches the day of their last turn? I had stopped tibias 4 weeks ago, and the right femur 2 weeks ago, but I've still been lengthening the left femur, and indeed, it doesn't show any consolidation in the x-rays:



So that's what two weeks of consolidation in one femur looks like.

Anyway, trying to walk with crutches after not walking for three months, was really scary. Even standing on my own two feet was a balance challenge. I'll stick with the walker for a while.

Today I also flew back home. The flying process was pretty streamlined: you show up at the airline's "special services / wheelchair requests" counter and they'll take care of you. As in, someone will ask for your ID, give you the boarding pass, then someone else will wheel you into security, take any carry-ons you might have, hand you over to TSA for a pat down, then get your carry-ons back and wheel you to the gate. From there, a gate attendant will wheel you to the plane, help you transfer into a special narrow wheelchair, then transfer you to your seat. Tip: get the wheelchair cushion with you! The plane seat was surprisingly stiff - because I had lost so much of my glutes.

In theory, as a wheelchair passenger you can get upgraded for free to first class in order to be closer to the bathrooms, but that didn't happen in my case (JetBlue), likely due to a certain rude gate attendant (who will be mentioned in a complaint letter to JetBlue). Bathroom proximity was irrelevant in my case, since I couldn't fit the walker in the aisle anyway, so I used the restroom just before boarding, and stopped drinking an hour earlier. I did sip some water during the flight, but not much, so that I could last 6-7 hours without needing the restroom.

During the next few weeks I'll be focusing on improving my ankle dorsiflexion and regaining my balance while standing straight. I also plan to buy a stationary bike, since I suspect that cycling will improve knee flexibility quite a lot, and because I need the cardio exercise.

Over the past several weeks, I haven't been in pain at all, except when stretching. I'll be tapering off Gabapentin/Neurontin over the next 10 days, and will be taking two monthly x-rays to send to Dr. Paley. He said that I could be walking unassisted within the next 4-6 weeks.
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

FormerKidd

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Re: 7.5cm total
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2018, 03:50:22 AM »

Today concludes the lengthening phase of my process,

First off, congratulations!

He said that I could be walking unassisted within the next 4-6 weeks.

Which would be a total of 8-10 weeks after stopping your tibias, 6-8 weeks for the right femur, and 4-6 for the left femur, correct?

I've noticed that Dr. Paley seemed more optimistic about consolidation times for me than Dr. Robbins or the PTs.  We'll see, I guess!

Tip: get the wheelchair cushion with you! The plane seat was surprisingly stiff - because I had lost so much of my glutes.

I have found many seats to be uncomfortable post-surgery.  I don't know if I'm alone in that.

and said I could stand straight unassisted without a time limit

This is the one of the reasons I'm glad I only did femurs, at least as far as Precise 2.2 goes - I was able to stand unassisted pretty much from the get-go.  Many things would be far tougher if I had not been able to.

For the last two weeks, I've only been lengthening the left femur at 0.5mm/day, in order to make up for the leg length discrepancy. As I noted in a previous post, this was due to a strategic mistake - not correcting this discrepancy at the beginning of the lengthening process. Please learn from my experience and convince your doctor that you want to correct any discrepancies at the beginning of the lengthening, when you're much more flexible, and one extra turn a day won't make much of a difference.

I asked about this, and they told me to wait until the end.  I didn't push too hard, though.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 04:17:10 AM by FormerKidd »
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Android

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Congratulations and thanks for sharing, OYG. Just goes to show that even careful planning and preparation can lead to unexpected obstacles.

Your diary is in no way obsolete because of STRYDE. A lot of the process is still relevant, and your opinion of being able to observe both technologies simultaneously carries much more weight than speculation.

Onward and upward!
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5'4" and 1/4" (163.2 cm) | United States | early 30s | Cross-lengthening with Dr. Solomin & Dr. Kulesh

doomsday

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So you paid around $150K  for 7 cm even though you could do 7 cm on femurs alone. Yeah sure proportions will be better but not many would care if there is so much more money involved that could be spend wayyyy better.

LL people are a weird bunch.
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OverrideYourGenetics

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Logic anyone?
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2018, 11:33:53 PM »

So you paid around $150K  for 7 cm even though you could do 7 cm on femurs alone. Yeah sure proportions will be better but not many would care if there is so much more money involved that could be spend wayyyy better.

LL people are a weird bunch.

...and some of them are committing basic reasoning errors.

1. I didn't decide upfront "Oh, I'll pay double the cost for femurs and get the same length just for the sake of proportions". When I chose quadrilateral and made the payment, my plan was to do 10cm, with the possibility of rebreaking in a year for 16cm. I stopped at 7.5cm several months later, and I still have the possibility of rebreaking.
2. "not many would care if there is so much more money involved that could be spend wayyyy better" - this isn't about how many would care. This decision was mine. I care. Maybe for me, that extra money was best spent preserving proportions, reducing the risk of osteoarthritis, and minimizing the recovery time, which we know increases more than arithmetically for every cm past the 5th in the femurs. Keep in mind that unlike Purushrottam, I'm in my late 30s.
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

doomsday

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If you're gonna re-break then yes, you will gave value for you money, otherwise it is just hard to justify spending so much .In the end it's your money and hopefully you're happy.
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Purushrottam

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I'm glad you continued updating the diary. Yours is much more detailed and useful than mine. For example, I totally forgot to mention the small but critical detail: The walker doesn't fit on an airplane aisle. As a result, getting on board your flight was a bit of a logistical hurdle... especially because I was new to crutches at the time. Also, the plane ride was rather uncomfortable.

Anyways, good luck on your journey!

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Had LL in Sept 2017 with Dr. Paley.
Starting height: 168.5 cm (5'6.5"); Ending height: 175 cm (5'9")
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4823.0

OverrideYourGenetics

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Foot swelling
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2018, 07:43:21 PM »

Friday, June 15 update. 5 weeks since stopping lengthening the tibias, 3 weeks since stopping the right femur, 1 since stopping the left

I've been home for a week, without much progress even though I've been using the walker a lot more. Also, my legs got swollen during the flight (normal for everyone), but the left leg wouldn't go back to normal:



Dr. Paley said to use elevation and compression socks. That didn't help.

But this morning I woke up to feel my left leg significantly more flexible than last night (by about 10%). The swelling is almost gone, literally overnight. It's easier to stretch the left knee (which has been extra stiff). Moral of the story: don't despair, even if there's no visible progress for a whole week after you stop lengthening.
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

OverrideYourGenetics

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Heal the sick, raise the dead!
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2018, 03:35:09 AM »

Tuesday, July 10 update. 8.5 weeks since stopping lengthening the tibias, 6.5 weeks since stopping the right femur, 4.5 since stopping the left

It's been 3.5 weeks since my last update, and a lot of progress:

A pain I've had for 2-3 weeks under the right knee when walking has gone away. That seems to be how LL pains come and go.

The pain from the screws in the left hip is less, though I still can't fall asleep on my left side (on my right, I can). Doctors at the Institute said this should disappear within one year, but it feels it will be shorter than that.

Had x-rays taken a week ago and I was worried by some strange-looking aspects. Here are two of the views in that x-ray set (more at https://imgur.com/a/iph0938):



^^ The top wall of the femur in that side image looks VERY thin. The comparable image of the left femur shows a much thicker bone wall.



^^ The zigzag in the right fibula looks pretty weird.

Dr. Paley said I was ready to "walk full weight bearing" with crutches, and to start slowly and ditch them when I can carry them. About the two anomalies above, he said the zigzag is no concern, but hasn't replied to my question about the thin bone wall. I looked at past x-rays and it's always been like that; however, other people's femurs don't show this thin wall (here are fallen774's). Not sure what to make of this.

Anyway, with the above in mind I wanted to be cautious so instead of getting crutches, I started walking (not hopping) with the walker around the house. A few days later I managed to walk about 50 meters to the gym in my building, then back. It wasn't that hard.

Strength is coming back fast, and pains are diminishing (I've only felt pain when moving the legs; very little random pains when not doing anything).

Yesterday I went back to work, in the wheelchair. About 30% of my coworkers asked what happened, and those were the least Americanized ones. The rest didn't bat an eye. "Welcome back, do you need any help?", but no intrusive questions about "what happened". To those who did ask what happened, I told I had a leg length discrepancy (true) that gave me back pain when standing (I did have that pain, though I'm not sure due to what), and while correcting the discrepancy, I got BOTH legs lengthened, so I'm a couple inches taller now. That's how far it went so far with coworkers being curious. I feel most professionals in the Bay Area make an effort to not ask their coworkers personal health questions. I haven't been out to social gatherings yet, where being outside of a work relationship, I can talk to people about LL (and they care enough to be genuinely curious).

Today I felt comfortable moving from the walker to canes. I'm skipping the crutches step because regular (underarm) crutches seem obnoxious, and the canes provided enough support for balance and for the moderate pain I feel in the left leg when stepping. Not sure what forearm crutches would provide in addition, and I don't want to use too much support; I'd rather force my body to get back to walking unaided ASAP.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 05:12:18 AM by OverrideYourGenetics »
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

1683131665

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Can you tell me your wingspan? Your ratio looks good.
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Android

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Thanks for the update, great photos. I hope Dr. Paley gets back to you soon about that femur wall.

Glad to hear that your strength is returning fast, good luck on walking!
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5'4" and 1/4" (163.2 cm) | United States | early 30s | Cross-lengthening with Dr. Solomin & Dr. Kulesh

OverrideYourGenetics

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Walking unaided
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2018, 05:22:34 AM »

My wingspan is only 5'2". When I was 5'5", I already looked like a T-rex sometimes, and always had to shorten the sleeves of any shirts I'd buy. For this reason, I don't plan to do a rebreak and lengthen any more.

Not sure how you could tell the ratio, since I didn't spread my arms in that video :)

Anyway, my wingspan is very short.

UPDATE as of end of July

I've been getting back to a normal life, and haven't visited the forum much. Below is a video of me walking without crutches. I can now walk longer without crutches, though there's pain level 2-3 with each step. My hips sway, especially if I try to lessen the pain. If I focus on the steps and push through the pain, I can walk pretty straight. I can also carry 45lbs plates at the gym, and have accidentally rowed ~175lbs. Not a good idea.



Some thoughts in retrospect after this leg lengthening experience:

1. I haven't yet seen improvements in my life to justify the ~$220k total price tag for this surgery. I went from 5'5" to 5'8" so I'm still shorter than 70% of males. While I am taller than 75% of women, this isn't very useful as I already have a girlfriend. Nobody at work noticed that I was taller - not surprising, given we work at desks all the time. My friends were like "wow" the first day I came back home, but didn't care about it later (as they should). I haven't been to bars/clubs (not my scene) or social events yet, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised.

At work, some people (esp. women) are shorter than me. This makes *me* feel self-conscious so I prefer to sit, in order to not make them look up.

2. If I learned one "thing" from this experience, is to have a lot more patience. I'm doing things now that I might have been too impatient for earlier, or I'm at peace with making slow progress over a longer period of time. I also know that if I need to have some other surgery, I'll make it through.

3. Walking is the best PT. Walk as soon as possible. For me, it was far more effective for strength and flexibility than having PT done to me while I was in a wheelchair. Of course, the legs healing coincided with going home after finishing lengthening, but the takeaway is - don't pay for *extra* PT (after you stop lengthening) unless you have money to throw around. Also, pool PT is weak. Stay somewhere that has a good, accessible gym instead. An Airbnb instead of the hotels that have pools and free shuttles going to PT, but don't have good gyms. You should exercise your upper body to prevent muscle loss.

4. I switched directly from walker to using one cane. No crutches. This was a very good decision. Tried to use crutches the day I stopped lengthening and it was scary and they felt awkward and precarious. Resorted to walking with the walker, mimicking normal walking as much as I could, instead of hopping. During that time, strength and flexibility (calves, dorsiflexion) were improving from one day to the next. I recommend the https://www.hurrycane.com - it folds, it can stand on its own, has a very stable base, and doesn't slip. Crutches just felt silly, hard to maneuver (esp.two of them when you need to open doors), and inelegant compared to the cane. The underarm style also risks causing nerve damage. If you MUST use crutches for some reason, use forearm ones.

5. Ever since I got back to California from West Palm Beach, my legs have been swollen all the time.

I'll get the last set of X-rays next week and ask Dr. Paley about that.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 06:51:18 AM by OverrideYourGenetics »
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

ShortLivesMatter

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Looking great man! Are you sure you measured your winspan correctly at 5'2 as your proportions look alot better than a big difference of 6" should be. 
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MirinHeight

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Looking great man! Are you sure you measured your winspan correctly at 5'2 as your proportions look alot better than a big difference of 6" should be.

his proportions look great because he didn't just lengthen 7 cm femurs or 7 cm tibias.

he took proportions into account and lengthened both a very small amount each. So nothing will look off about him.

loving the diary @OverrideYourGenetics.
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currently 179 cm with a 6'2 wingspan
Goal: 182.5-184 cm
top 5 LL surgeons: Paley, Rozbruch, Mahboubian, Parihar, Birkholtz
new up and coming: Giotikas

OverrideYourGenetics

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Mirin - why?
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2018, 06:20:34 AM »

Thanks for the kind words, Mirin.

I've noticed in your signature that you're already 179cm tall and want to gain 3-5cm. This is something I personally can't comprehend (being 5'10" is a dream), and you're already taller than 70% of men. I'm curious about your motives for getting a relatively small increase (3-5 cm). Is it the large wingspan?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 06:56:03 AM by OverrideYourGenetics »
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

paj

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Your pain levels are the most interesting and alarming part of this. I expected the pain would be significant, as you are having your legs fractured as part of the process, but I thought nerve pain was rare? Also, I've heard descriptions of the pain from this surgery as being anywhere from a 2 to 6 out of 10, but your descriptions of it as 9-10/10 bring a whole new perspective. Very informative.

Did the Stryde patient appear to be in similar levels of discomfort/pain? One of my major concerns is the use of opioid painkillers. I've been prescribed them before for other pain but never used them and just toughed it out. Now I wish I remember what I was prescribed to get an idea of what level of pain my doctor thought I was in, because for me it was a 3-4/10 but he must have thought it was much worse.
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taller_in_Kiev

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Re: Walking unaided
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2018, 12:10:18 PM »


Some thoughts in retrospect after this leg lengthening experience:

1. I haven't yet seen improvements in my life to justify the ~$220k total price tag for this surgery.

$220k WTF???!! You'd have to be a multi-millionaire to justify spending that much on LL, so I hope you are? And even then, it's a ridiculous amount, particularly in your case, reading your post - sorry to say.

About the crutches, I would beg to differ. I used the underarm ones, you can mimic walking better with those, plus they keep you more upright with better posture. Make sure you adjust the length so that they fit snugly under your underarms when standing up straight.
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lucindaris

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Instead of top 5 doctos in your signature, You should put top 5 delusional and lunatic users including yourself.  "Cosmetic LL for 3,5 cm" -> Instead of looking for numbers, please take a ruler and measure 3,5 cm to see for what You want to spend so much money and risk for possible complications. Unbelievable its so hard to see difference between trolls and lunatics on this forum nowadays.
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notatroll

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My wingspan is only 5'2". When I was 5'5", I already looked like a T-rex sometimes, and always had to shorten the sleeves of any shirts I'd buy. For this reason, I don't plan to do a rebreak and lengthen any more.

Not sure how you could tell the ratio, since I didn't spread my arms in that video :)

Anyway, my wingspan is very short.

UPDATE as of end of July

I've been getting back to a normal life, and haven't visited the forum much. Below is a video of me walking without crutches. I can now walk longer without crutches, though there's pain level 2-3 with each step. My hips sway, especially if I try to lessen the pain. If I focus on the steps and push through the pain, I can walk pretty straight. I can also carry 45lbs plates at the gym, and have accidentally rowed ~175lbs. Not a good idea.



Some thoughts in retrospect after this leg lengthening experience:

1. I haven't yet seen improvements in my life to justify the ~$220k total price tag for this surgery. I went from 5'5" to 5'8" so I'm still shorter than 70% of males. While I am taller than 75% of women, this isn't very useful as I already have a girlfriend. Nobody at work noticed that I was taller - not surprising, given we work at desks all the time. My friends were like "wow" the first day I came back home, but didn't care about it later (as they should). I haven't been to bars/clubs (not my scene) or social events yet, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised.

At work, some people (esp. women) are shorter than me. This makes *me* feel self-conscious so I prefer to sit, in order to not make them look up.

2. If I learned one "thing" from this experience, is to have a lot more patience. I'm doing things now that I might have been too impatient for earlier, or I'm at peace with making slow progress over a longer period of time. I also know that if I need to have some other surgery, I'll make it through.

3. Walking is the best PT. Walk as soon as possible. For me, it was far more effective for strength and flexibility than having PT done to me while I was in a wheelchair. Of course, the legs healing coincided with going home after finishing lengthening, but the takeaway is - don't pay for *extra* PT (after you stop lengthening) unless you have money to throw around. Also, pool PT is weak. Stay somewhere that has a good, accessible gym instead. An Airbnb instead of the hotels that have pools and free shuttles going to PT, but don't have good gyms. You should exercise your upper body to prevent muscle loss.

4. I switched directly from walker to using one cane. No crutches. This was a very good decision. Tried to use crutches the day I stopped lengthening and it was scary and they felt awkward and precarious. Resorted to walking with the walker, mimicking normal walking as much as I could, instead of hopping. During that time, strength and flexibility (calves, dorsiflexion) were improving from one day to the next. I recommend the https://www.hurrycane.com - it folds, it can stand on its own, has a very stable base, and doesn't slip. Crutches just felt silly, hard to maneuver (esp.two of them when you need to open doors), and inelegant compared to the cane. The underarm style also risks causing nerve damage. If you MUST use crutches for some reason, use forearm ones.

5. Ever since I got back to California from West Palm Beach, my legs have been swollen all the time.

I'll get the last set of X-rays next week and ask Dr. Paley about that.

@Overrideyourgenetics
Thank you for your honesty
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OverrideYourGenetics

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Pain, cost, cane, quoting
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2018, 08:42:44 PM »

Your pain levels are the most interesting and alarming part of this. I expected the pain would be significant, as you are having your legs fractured as part of the process, but I thought nerve pain was rare? Also, I've heard descriptions of the pain from this surgery as being anywhere from a 2 to 6 out of 10, but your descriptions of it as 9-10/10 bring a whole new perspective. Very informative.

Not quite sure whose pain levels you were referring to. I had pain 9/10 ONCE, for about an hour during the hospital stay after the femurs surgery. Otherwise the pain was 6-8 intermittently. I've logged it using this app called "PainScale", until about 3 weeks after the femurs surgery, at which point it became uninteresting to log because the pain was too low or too random to do anything about.



Did the Stryde patient appear to be in similar levels of discomfort/pain?

No. He was doing much better. He also only had the femurs done.

People have asked me which segment was more painful. They were both painful enough during the first three weeks that the difference was insignificant. The femurs were worse long-term because they came with hip pain that prevented sleeping on the side. Also, when I get up from a chair, I have pain 4-6 in my right femur sometimes, but never tibia pain.

One of my major concerns is the use of opioid painkillers. I've been prescribed them before for other pain but never used them and just toughed it out. Now I wish I remember what I was prescribed to get an idea of what level of pain my doctor thought I was in, because for me it was a 3-4/10 but he must have thought it was much worse.

If you want to avoid opioids, look into cannabis formulations with increased CBD (the non-psychoative component of the plant). Cannabis doesn't cause addiction, and for some people (including me), it's much more effective (in the THC+CBD form) than opioids. Of course, pharma doesn't like this because it's much cheaper to get some weed than to pay for oxycodone and the like. Check https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/where-marijuana-is-legal-opioid-prescriptions-fall/.

Also, I've written extensively about pain at https://overrideyourgenetics.com/pain/.

$220k WTF???!! You'd have to be a multi-millionaire to justify spending that much on LL, so I hope you are? And even then, it's a ridiculous amount, particularly in your case, reading your post - sorry to say.

$180 for the surgery, ~$15k for accommodations & transport + whatever for food and fun in West Palm Beach =~ $220k. The exact amount might have been less, but on the scale of paying the loans back over 5-7 years, it doens't make a difference.

I'm far from a millionaire, but after the surgery, I'm making more than I've ever made. Funny how that works. Puru is in the same situation. For me, having loans to pay back is a strong motivation to get stuff done.

About the crutches, I would beg to differ. I used the underarm ones, you can mimic walking better with those, plus they keep you more upright with better posture. Make sure you adjust the length so that they fit snugly under your underarms when standing up straight.

I admit I didn't try crutches for more than one day, but with the walker, I offloaded a minimal amount of weight on my arms, and was able to take long steps with good form and no balance issues. fallen774 did the same at Dr. M's advice. Once I switched to using one cane (which is what Paley advises for STRYDE patients), I progressed from walker to walking unassisted in about 3 weeks (bought cane July 9, recorded that pool video July 29). How fast was your progress with crutches back in 2004, and how confident are you that you remember that accurately?

@notatroll: you're welcome, but please don't quote an entire long post with a video in it just to say "thanks" :)
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

paj

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Thanks for the information regarding pain. I guess when I saw that one time description of 9/10 pain you had my mind fixated on it because, well, its pain. It makes sense that it was post surgery. I hope everything goes well for you. Stryde sounds like a massive improvement.

How long do you spend walking/cycling a day? Do you break it up into shorter sessions? Is pain the cue you use to determine if you have done enough for the day?
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MirinHeight

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Re: Mirin - why?
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2018, 02:33:39 AM »

Thanks for the kind words, Mirin.

I've noticed in your signature that you're already 179cm tall and want to gain 3-5cm. This is something I personally can't comprehend (being 5'10" is a dream), and you're already taller than 70% of men. I'm curious about your motives for getting a relatively small increase (3-5 cm). Is it the large wingspan?

I also only have a 30 inch inseam.. very short and stubby legs, 6'2 wingspan and long torso

I have had a lot of insecurities when it comes to height growing up. Mostly all my cousins and my brother (6'1) are over 6'. I played football in high school and was very good, but did not get a college scholarship for it due to height. one of the coaches who saw me play actually told me height at my position was the only reason he didn't offer. However, my brother who was 6'1 got a full ride scholarship to play college ball when I racked up way better stats than him at the same high school. I have no intention of playing football post LL lol, but I have had many circumstances come up like this in my life where I have been looked over, which only made my insecurities worse and made me realize how much stature actually means to society. Also relatively speaking, I always found myself to be short growing up due to the family I grew up in.

-Not doing this for girls. I have a loving gf who I have no intention of telling about this surgery that I will have in the future (lengthening small amount).  Also will be in medical school, so I have done a lot of research on this surgical procedure myself as well
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currently 179 cm with a 6'2 wingspan
Goal: 182.5-184 cm
top 5 LL surgeons: Paley, Rozbruch, Mahboubian, Parihar, Birkholtz
new up and coming: Giotikas

Purushrottam

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Re: Pain, cost, cane, quoting
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2018, 04:48:52 AM »


I'm far from a millionaire, but after the surgery, I'm making more than I've ever made. Funny how that works. Puru is in the same situation. For me, having loans to pay back is a strong motivation to get stuff done.


Agreed. Having loans is a big motivator to focus and do stuff to improve your career.
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Had LL in Sept 2017 with Dr. Paley.
Starting height: 168.5 cm (5'6.5"); Ending height: 175 cm (5'9")
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4823.0

Purushrottam

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Re: Walking unaided
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2018, 04:57:41 AM »

1. I haven't yet seen improvements in my life to justify the ~$220k total price tag for this surgery. I went from 5'5" to 5'8" so I'm still shorter than 70% of males. While I am taller than 75% of women, this isn't very useful as I already have a girlfriend. Nobody at work noticed that I was taller - not surprising, given we work at desks all the time. My friends were like "wow" the first day I came back home, but didn't care about it later (as they should). I haven't been to bars/clubs (not my scene) or social events yet, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised.

At work, some people (esp. women) are shorter than me. This makes *me* feel self-conscious so I prefer to sit, in order to not make them look up.

This makes sense. The biggest improvement I saw was in dating. Career wise, being short isn't really a setback for a software engineer. This may be why a lot of shorter people take this career subconsciously. A lot of tech CEOs are short (Zuckerberg, Bezos, Pichai). My current CEO is 5'4".
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Had LL in Sept 2017 with Dr. Paley.
Starting height: 168.5 cm (5'6.5"); Ending height: 175 cm (5'9")
http://www.limblengtheningforum.com/index.php?topic=4823.0

OverrideYourGenetics

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Walkstation
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2018, 08:33:45 PM »

How long do you spend walking/cycling a day? Do you break it up into shorter sessions? Is pain the cue you use to determine if you have done enough for the day?

Initially I thought cycling was really effective for flexibility (as Puru noted), but in my case, improvements only lasted for about 5 minutes. Walking seemed more effective.

Now I use a walkstation at work to walk while reading, and yes, pain is the cue for when to stop. Yesterday I did one 20 minutes session at 1 mile per hour. I haven't yet done multiple sessions a day. I suspect the benefits plateau, because on days when I had to walk a lot vs. walking much less, I didn't feel disproportionately large improvements the next day. In other words, I suspect that time to heal and sleep aid the recovery more than the exercises I've been doing, and since I don't have much time these days to go all out on speeding up my recovery, I'm just letting healing take its course. But my all means, if you have time, do exercise more.

@Mirin, it's sad that people are so superficial where you live, and judge you so much for something like stature, over which you had little very control. Fortunately that's not the case here in Silicon Valley. Or at least people pretend it doesn't matter... I'm sure there's plenty of unconscious bias against short people, and I wish there were an Implicit association test for that.
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

OverrideYourGenetics

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6 months later
« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2018, 05:59:02 AM »

Alright, it's September 15, 6 months sharp since my tibias surgery, ~5 since the femurs, and about 3 months since I've stopped lengthening. I haven't been active on the forum because it seems the forum itself is badly neglected and I don't want to invest in something that might disappear tomorrow, but anyway, thought I'd give an update. As always, my blog is up there and will be up for the foreseeable futures - https://overrideyourgenetics.com.

Progress
  • I've been able to walk unassisted for more than a month, and... I went to Burning Man. Crazy, I know. Walked 2+ miles every day, got a blister, damaged my ankles and needed ~10 days for the ankle pain to go away, but - I survived Burning Man. To understand how large Burning Man is, those dots are cars and the longer ones are RVs:
  • I can climb stairs unassisted. Going down stairs is painful, and I can do it by putting a hand on the railing.
  • Today I was able to squat unassisted. It's surprisingly tiring: after 10 lightly assisted squats (one hand on the back of a chair), my heart rate was around 100.

Limitations
  • I still can't jog, let alone run.
  • The gait is a bit wobbly (unless I really pay attention to walking correctly), and about 2x slower than normal
  • Flexibility is poor: I can do maybe 90 degree splits (vs. the ~150 before), and I can only come about ~20cm from the floor if I try to touch my toes standing with my knees locked.

I shouldn't complain though, because I didn't spend much time in the gym or stretching. Progress in mobility and strength has been rather random. I expected that after walking a lot at Burning Man, I'd make great progress, but no - the ankle pain set me back by about a month. Then within a week, I became able to squat... go figure. What I did in that week that might have any connection to leg strength or mobility was one 13-minute session on the StairMaster (climbing neverending stairs, like an escalator). Whether progress is delayed by so many days that it's hard to establish cause & effect, or whether what really advances the recovery is time and sleep, I can't quite tell. Anyway, if you have time, do stretch and walk and bike.

PS: I've been on TV
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My diary. Tibias+femurs 3.75+3.75cm at the Paley Institute (5'5" -> 5'8") in my late 30s.
One of the last patients to use the PRECICE 2.2 nail. I met the first STRYDE patient and I strongly recommend the new STRYDE nail instead.

TIBIKE200

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Re: Quadrilateral lengthening @ the Paley Institute - tibias 4cm + femurs 6cm
« Reply #57 on: September 16, 2018, 06:51:01 AM »

it is pretty disheartening that your recovery has been so slow considering the very conservative amount you have gained...
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I learned some stuff during this time

ZUCC420

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Re: Quadrilateral lengthening @ the Paley Institute - tibias 4cm + femurs 6cm
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2018, 11:49:09 AM »

@OverrideYourGenetics If you don't mind me asking, why lengthen only 7.5cm total though? Paying 180k at the best institute for limb lengthening and you go from 5'5" to 5'8" when you could lengthen to 5'10" or more?
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Android

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Re: Quadrilateral lengthening @ the Paley Institute - tibias 4cm + femurs 6cm
« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2018, 03:04:07 PM »

The amount of money doesn't really matter if you develop complications or face unexpected amount of pain. There are no guarantees in limb lengthening.
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5'4" and 1/4" (163.2 cm) | United States | early 30s | Cross-lengthening with Dr. Solomin & Dr. Kulesh

ZUCC420

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Re: Quadrilateral lengthening @ the Paley Institute - tibias 4cm + femurs 6cm
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2018, 04:19:36 PM »

The amount of money doesn't really matter if you develop complications or face unexpected amount of pain. There are no guarantees in limb lengthening.

My point was if you decide to go for the best in the field, then wouldn't it be wise to go for the highest amount said best in the field recommends? IIRC Paley's amounts were femur: 8cm and tibia: 6cm so he could've gained total of 14cm instead of 10cm considering he's 5'5". Disregard my other post, I thought his intention was to lengthen to 7.5 cm.
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JON SNOW

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Re: Quadrilateral lengthening @ the Paley Institute - tibias 4cm + femurs 6cm
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2018, 05:12:16 PM »

first it's like android says in CLL money should be a secondary factor, can always make more $ it's super easy really

note:I'm not saying that mortgaging your homes is a good idea, know your capital and make a budget

second point, 7.5cm is a conservative amount but by no means small and doing an conservative amount  plus 2 segments has the advantages of maintaining the biomechanical ratio and less lengthening  equals better soft tissue adapation

if you do 14 cm  vs 10 cm the recovery increases non-linearly is years instead of months, yes it can be done but it's not worth it imo, you have diminished returns and greater possibilities of complcations

PS: doctor paley maximum for quadrilateral lengthening is 10 cm or 4 inches, to do more, the procedures must be 1 year or so apart, ej: like  tibia then a  year later femur  or quadrilateral then a  year or so later repeat osteotomies\rebreaking

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